EP22, Body Composition with Anna Terry

In this episode of 'Unstoppable By Design,' Matt Terry and co-owner of Juggernaut Fitness, Anna Terry, delve into the intricacies of body composition. They explain the differences between body weight and body composition, interpreting key metrics like skeletal muscle mass (SMM) and body fat percentage, and the importance of visceral fat for long-term health. The duo highlights the advantages of using an InBody scan over traditional calipers for measuring body composition and provides actionable steps to utilize these metrics effectively. They also discuss the significance of maintaining muscle mass for aging, the balance of different goals such as performance and aesthetics, and tackle common fitness myths.

00:00 Introduction to Unstoppable By Design

00:17 Understanding Body Composition

02:59 Importance of Skeletal Muscle Mass

05:29 InBody vs. Calipers: Accuracy in Body Measurements

08:10 Interpreting InBody Results

14:47 Visceral Fat and Long-Term Health

19:24 Adjusting Training and Nutrition

23:04 Rapid Fire Myth Busting

24:38 Unstoppable Challenge and Conclusion

Transcript

Matt: Let's go.

Welcome to Unstoppable By Design, where we talk all things fitness, mindset and what it means to truly be unstoppable inside and outside the gym. I'm Matt Terry, and today we're turning confusing body numbers into a clear training roadmap. Joining me is an Terry co-owner of Juggernaut Fitness and my wife to unpack body composition the practical way, what skeletal muscle mass or SMM really means, and how to interpret body fat percentage, why visceral fat matters for long-term health, and how to use your InBody results to actually sculpt your plant.

If you've ever stared at a scale or skinfold caliper reading and wondered, so now what? This is the episode. So let's dive in. Anna, how are you? 

Anna: Great. The same thing every time you ask. That's our energy 

Matt: today. Great. Um, so Anna, in plain English, what's the difference between body weight and body composition and why should our members care?

Anna: So for me, your body weight is literally the number that you see when you step on a scale. It's all encompassing every component of you into one number. Body composition is that number broken down into the individual aspects of your body. So your fat, your water weight, your lean mass, your skeletal mass, all of that so you know exactly where that weight is coming from.

Hmm. I think that's important for our members to pay attention to because the, uh, standard scale is a. B word, if you know what I'm saying. 

Anna: Um, because I just think it, it's, it's just one piece of the puzzle, you know? And like you, man, I think like so many of us have grown up thinking that, I would say from a women's perspective, that I'm supposed to weigh like 115 pounds and that's the number that should be on the scale.

But that's not, like, that's not the real picture. What you really wanna look at from a state of. You being healthy is your composition because you can see somebody who weighs 115 pounds, but has minimal muscle on their body. From our definition, that's not healthy because they're not gonna be able to get up off of a chair when they're 45.

Hmm. They're probably not gonna be able to recover as well from injuries or from health episodes without enough muscle on their body. Meanwhile, you can have someone who's the same height be 130 pounds, be the same size, and they got abs. 

Anna: abs or got quads for days, something, you know what I mean? Like biceps.

Um, and they're gonna be people, a person who overcomes injury health issues significantly better and is probably gonna be that person who run in circles in the nursing home at 80. Yeah, 

Matt: fair enough. Yeah. Um, so I guess, what is scale to muscle mass and how is it different than lean body mass? 

Anna: Your skeletal muscle mass is like your actual muscle.

It's attached to the bone, hence the skeletal muscle mass piece. Your lean body mass is basically everything except for fat. So that includes your organs, uh, your bones, your muscle, all that jazz. 

Matt: Okay. Why, why is it a huge deal for aging? Well, thinking about like strength, balance, metabolism, and overall independence 

Anna: have a muscle, 

Matt: but yeah.

Why is 

Anna: that? Uh, uh, it, like I was kind of alluding to earlier, like muscle is. I would say like your, your best protector. And I also kind of look at it like a savings account. So like speaking from my, especially my own experience lately of like being injured, how much muscle I have lost through this injury is pretty substantial.

I think I'm up to like 11 pounds 'cause I've been doing this for two years now of muscle lost. But I still have a decent amount of muscle on my body, thank God, because I built up that savings account. I had a large amount of muscle on my body, and I think it's like helping me still be able to do things that people with my injury typically can't do.

Mm-hmm. Um, so I'm living a life that most probably couldn't, you know, if had they not been in my shoes. So when we think about, like what were the pieces, as you said. 

Matt: Uh, like strength, balance, metabolism, or independence. 

Anna: Okay. So like from an independence perspective, like what, no matter what age you're at, an injury is gonna find you at some point in life and it's probably gonna happen when you least expect it to.

Like, that's gonna be really important to have muscle in your body to, to manage through that. Um, and hopefully not overcompensate so much that you create more injuries. Um, from a balanced perspective, again, having more muscle on your body is gonna help protect your joints and other. Parts of your body, so right.

So you usually have better balance from it because you have, you're more stable in how you move. Uh, you could typically move through better or full range of motion as well. If you're gaining strength in a good, I shouldn't say a good way, but like you're not just doing bicep curls for days. You're doing more of like a functional approach to your fitness.

You'll maintain your range of motion, which will be important for your balance as well. Um, and then as far as metabolism goes, man, that muscle needs fuel. Mm-hmm. So your body gets working, that fire gets roaring, so your metabolism is, uh, usually a notch or two above as well. And it's looking to be fed. 

Matt: Yep.

Need to fuel the gains. 

Anna: Yes. 

Matt: Um, all right, well we use the InBody specifically, the five 70 model, uh, for scanning. How does this bio impotence scan compare to calipers? Especially for people with pliable or loose skin where pinches can be inconsistent. 

Anna: So I think it's just that, right? The inconsistencies, especially with pliable skin, so like you for example, it's makes it challenging to grab the right stuff, let's just say that.

And it's also like you're almost, you're literally measuring just like skin, not fat, not subcutaneous fat. Um, where like. And the further inconsistencies too, where like if you have different people doing it, what they, the amount they grab probably varies from person to person, and within a single individual, I can't guarantee that I'm grabbing exactly two inches of skin and subcutaneous fat every time in the same exact spot every time I do cas.

Mm-hmm. So there's just tons of room for human error and variance in using calipers. Regardless of if you have that pliable skin or not. And then, um, the embody is just consistent. Like you step on it, it's machine does what it does every time. Really, the only variables are, like, if you are like, Hey, I just ate an entire meal two minutes ago.

I'm hopping on the scale. That's gonna skew some things. But the good news is, is we know how to look at the results if that is communicated to us and understand the impact. Whereas the calipers, you can't tell, like you don't know if you're not consistent to the last pinch or not. Yeah. But you can very clearly have a conversation around the InBody and, and find that in your results and speak to it.

Matt: Yeah. Like the, the InBody itself is a very consistent tool where mm-hmm. If you're doing your, your measurements through there, the inconsistencies are usually generated by, by person, like you said, like. What'd you eat before? Or did you work out right before? Is it a different time of day from your last scan?

Mm-hmm. That type of thing. 'cause all those factors do matter. Um, and if you were to pick one over the other skin calipers or InBody for, uh, let's say your go-to, which would it be? 

Anna: I would definitely do the InBody. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Anna: And, and it just gives so much more information too. Like 

Matt: truth. 

Anna: Yeah. It, it really, especially like the one, like the one we have does a segmental.

Breakdown. So you can look and you can see muscular imbalances. You can see like, am I storing fat more in one area than the other? That might lead to something hormonal happening. Like you can really pick up a ton more about what's going on through the InBody, where I would say the calipers like paint a decent picture, but there's just so much inconsistency that comes with it and it doesn't break down everything that's going on.

Matt: Yeah. I actually wanna dive into that. What you said a little bit was. Um, there's that part with the segmental lean analysis. Mm-hmm. How do you use that to spot possible or upcoming maybe, uh, muscular imbalances. 

Anna: So there's actually, I guess like an equation around it that will tell you the arms and legs are slightly different, but each your arms have a variance that's acceptable and your legs have a variance that's acceptable from left, left to right.

So when you look at that and you can see is the variance within that acceptable. Range, then we're probably good if it's at or exceeding. That's when we would start raising a little bit of flag and usually ask like, have you had an injury on this side before? Yes. Cool. This could be, you know, you're still paying catch up for that, or you're still compensating.

We have to work on intentionality around breaking those habits. If not, they could have one coming. You know what I mean? If you keep, you know, compensating that much, um, but it's looking for those ranges. Um, it can also be a good tool to tweak your training methods, right? If you're seeing those imbalances, um, and letting your coaches know to start to look for those things and help you out with that.

Um, but I do wanna add in there that like everybody's a little lopsided, so don't, if you do an InBody scan, like don't panic. It is very normal that we're not perfectly even 

Matt: unless you're sinal sin, sinals body scan was like to the, the point whatever, whatever number even on all parts. 

Anna: Yeah. She, you know, she, it was 

Matt: crazy.

Cindy's 

Anna: also crazy, so I would've expect that less. Yeah. This is 

Matt: awesome. Um, all right, so let's say you've got your InBody printout. What are the. Biggest three areas or the most important? I'd say three areas that you want a member to focus on. 

Anna: So I typically look at the top. The top one is like, man, I wish I had a sheet in front of me 'cause I can't remember now what they're called.

I think there is the obesity analysis, which that is looking at the body fat percentage and your BMI. So those are the two sections in there. I like looking at that one because I love painting a picture of just how much. You really should look away from the BMI. It's important to be aware of because the doctor's insurance and all stuff use it, but just like this scale, it paints one very high level picture and it doesn't tell you the whole truth, the whole story of what's going on.

So, for example, I'm pretty sure yours says you're obese. Yes. Because it only looks, looks at your height and weight. So like if you're, if you're listening, you've probably seen Matt, the dude's got a six pack, probably a little bit of, of an eight pack in there, but he won't tell you, um, 

Matt: in the cooler right now.

Anna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Uh, so I think it's very clear that Matt is not obese, but his BMI says he's obese. His body fat percentage. The last time you did it was what, six, 7%? 

Matt: No, no. I, I improved. I'm like. Eight or nine right now. 

Anna: Wow. Yeah, that's 

Matt: a big win for me. 

Anna: Uh, so either way, Matt has like zero fat on his body.

Let's just put it that way. So like, it shows, you know, I think Matt's a little bit of an extreme example, but there's many other people out there who have very similar results where their BI says that they're obese, but there body composition is phenomenal. They're a very athletic person. So I often use that to paint a picture to be like, this is what we really wanna look at, because.

When we change body composition, we're also changing health. Changing. BMI doesn't necessarily mean you're changing health because I've seen many people cut fat in very unhealthy ways just to improve that BMI. But then their body comp is going down the drain and it's, um, oftentimes their body composition will, will increase in a bad way because they're losing muscle to lose the weight and that now they have more fat on their body, which is gonna come a whole bunch of health issues down the road.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I wanna look at body fat percentage ranges next and like adding a little bit of context to them. Um, so how do you set context around body fat percentage for different goals? Think about like performance, aesthetics, and maybe just overall general health. 

Anna: They each kind of have a slightly different range.

And like you can go online and you can see the recommended ranges, but I always believe that every body is different. So we can start shooting for those ranges, but we always need to check in with how are you feeling? How is your sleep? How is your energy? 'cause maybe that range is not best for you, so don't get stuck in that if you're looking into it.

Um, but typically you're. Your aesthetics, I always struggle to say that is gonna have probably the lowest body comp because then it's just strict, strictly for looks like you're, you're, you're at like that bikini show level where they're super single digits, very low body fat percentage, ex, on an extreme example.

But typically it's lower because you're going for the vanity. You want, you want the abs, you want the muscles to show. Usually that comes with very low, um, body fat if you are looking for that toned defined look. Mm, um, performance is probably gonna be the next range up depending on what performance you're looking for.

If you wanna be a power lifter, you're, you're probably not gonna. You're gonna have a higher body fat content. Yep. 'cause mass moves mass baby. Yep. You know? Yep. Um, mm-hmm. But performance tends to be kind of like that mid, that mid range if you're truly kind of looking into the athletic zone. But it is gonna be higher than the aesthetics because you do need fat in your body to fuel your exercise.

And you do need to be eating enough to fuel muscle growth and recovery. So there is a little bit more, um, body fat that comes with that. Then your general health is probably a notch higher. But even with that, they're all within a couple percentages of each other, depending on, um. The person, which is why it's like, don't get stuck on those exact ranges because your, like, your performance and your aesthetic is almost in the same, the same place.

Mm-hmm. Like your body's homeostasis is just in that six to 9% body fat range. Where mine, like my body performs best at 25% body fat. Man would, I love to be less, but like, I just don't feel good. You know, and it's what's most important to you. Yeah. At the end of the day. 

Matt: I mean, I like that you said that, like what's most important to you?

Because I get a heavier weight. I'm more efficient with barbell movements. Like it feels better, I feel stronger. Um, I can whip a barbell around, but it makes gymnastics a heck of a task. 

Anna: One, one pound extra in gymnastics is terrible, 

Matt: but all of a sudden, like, you know, muscle ups or pull-ups will go out the window and forget handstand pushups if I add weight.

So. Um, there's, there's a balance. There's a balance to be struck right in the middle. Um, but looking at visceral fat, specifically the InBody flags, visceral fat levels. Uh, what is visceral fat and why does location matter for long-term health? 

Anna: So visceral fat is located in your core, and it's primarily different from subcutaneous fat in the sense that it's like it's alive.

You could say. So it's releasing hormones into your system and other gunk. So having that being right on top of your organs is not the best. Like you're getting a direct shot of things that you don't want. 

Anna: So, um, it's important to, you know, check your lifestyle habits to make sure that we're keeping your visceral fat level at a reasonable space.

Everybody's gonna have, some women typically have more, right? Because we're. We're designed to protect babies in our bellies and all that stuff. Um, but in each space there's a, there's a healthy and a not so healthy range of visceral fat. 

Matt: Yeah. And if, if visceral fat's elevated, I mean, what are the first kind of levers that you would suggest to, to try to change instead of changing like everything at once?

Mm-hmm. Like what are the top couple levers you'd pull? I mean, like sleep steps, training, what kind of stuff? 

Anna: Yeah. I to pick the first one. I mean, everybody is different. I'm usually seeing their food. First is always food. What's going on, right? Mm-hmm. Are you eating a ton of sugar? Are you drinking a bunch?

Like what are we looking at? Your carbs to the roof? Um, quality of food is all processed or is it home cooks? Um, so usually we're kind of navigating some of that stuff already in our, in the sessions. So outside of that, I then check in with sleep. Usually my next thing, how much sleep are we getting? Right?

Are you getting four or five hours a night? Not, not so good. Yeah, right. You know, we wanna shoot for that. Seven to eight stress levels will be the next, how stressful is life? What are you doing to cope with this stress? Do you have any healthy mechanisms around that? Um, and then also other activity level because there's sometimes where people are working out so much that it's actually a, an unhealthy stressor on their body and contributing to the problems.

So, uh, that I would say is my order of priority. We're already working on the food. Let's see what we got going on. Mm-hmm. Second sleep. Mm-hmm. Third stress, fourth workouts. Yeah. Um, because if your body is in a state of stress, adding more movement or adding more steps isn't always the best thing. But if those other things are all in check and depending on where you're at in your stages of life, like if you're a female in, uh, what is it not?

Is it perimenopausal? Pre menopause. I don't know why I'm looking at you. Like, you'd be like, yeah, this actually sounds great. Sounds, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're, if you're approaching menopause, um, sometimes, or like you have like P ost or some, some sort of, uh, hormonal thing going on, sometimes focusing on a step goal is actually the best thing that you can do instead of, uh, the intense exercise step goals and strength training is, you know, the best thing that you can do.

So it definitely depends on the person and what they got going on. Kind of assessing that in the moment and then giving them one bite at a time and working on that one thing. Because in most cases, if, if we're, we're stacking on the visceral fat, there's probably, it's either unhealthy food habits that are going on.

Again, unhealthy foods, processed foods, uh, alcohol, or we got some major stress going on. And if it's the major stress, stress piece. You definitely don't want to contribute to that. So it's what is that one digestible piece that someone can take and Yeah. Start making healthy changes with 

Matt: Yeah. Don't, don't pull all the levers at once.

Pick one of those in the beginning. 

Anna: Whatever you do, you want it to be sustainable. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Anna: And going a hundred percent isn't always sustainable. 

Matt: No. Uh, how often should people retest on the InBody in like a meaningful way without kind of going into that obsession mode? 

Anna: I personally think like once every three months is pretty good.

Um, the body typically likes 12 week cycles to see like major change. If you think about how long it takes you to understand the new program that you're in, whether it's food or fitness, and then adapt to it and then really get in the groove every 90 days is probably a good space to actually know if what you've committed to is producing results.

Matt: Yeah, 

Anna: some people can do more. More frequently depending on what they're working on. But if you're gonna go more frequently, I would definitely recommend doing it with a coach so they can keep you steering in the right direction and not have you falling into that obsessive trait. 'cause it is very easy to do.

Matt: Yeah. Make sure it's healthy. 

Anna: Yeah. 

Matt: Um, if skeletal muscle mass stalls for two months, how do you adjust training? I mean, do you look at adjusting volume first or intensity or exercise? Uh, selection, 

Anna: uh, again, depends on the person. Um. Food could be another big piece in there too, right? Like, maybe your training is solid, but you're not fueling, you know, or like you're, you can maybe, well my food was working before, like, well now you're entering into a new level.

So now we gotta increase the food, increase the protein, increase the carbs, and then we'll see some growth happen from there. Um, males are typically a little bit easier to figure that out with. Females could be having something hormonal going on and. Call Emily. That's all I gotta say because don't ask me, but call Emily if that's where you fit.

Um, but yeah, to your point too, like the training, like maybe the body just isn't responding well to whatever program you're on. Maybe you need more, maybe you need less, maybe you're over training. Um, so there's a, a bunch of different factors and I definitely did not prioritize them for you, but it, it kind of depends.

Matt: It is one of those questions where it's like, it depends. Um, yeah, because. If you're hitting a stall or like a plateau per se, it's always best in any of your training en environments to just change one thing. Yeah. Don't change everything. Kind of like what we talked about with the, the last question.

Mm-hmm. But pull the lever somewhere, whether that is intensity, maybe pull it back or you push it forward. Uh, same thing with volume as well. Um, volume's probably a very common one 

Anna: Yeah. 

Matt: To change. 

Anna: Yeah. And maybe once again, maybe you're not sleeping good. Go get some sleep. Yeah. That's when your muscles recover.

Matt: Uh, if body fat percentage isn't budging, but skeletal muscle mass is climbing, how do you help members interpret that as a wind and stay the course? 

Anna: Man, it's, that's like perfect. Yeah. Your skeletal muscle mass is improving and your body comp is staying the same. When you, uh, 

Matt: well, your body fat stay the same.

Yeah. 

Anna: Yeah. Your body, your, your body fat is staying the same, but muscles going up. Right? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Anna: So typically like when you're gaining muscle, some fat comes with it. When you are losing fat, some muscle goes with it. Mm. They move together, but usually within a reasonable ratio. Mm-hmm. Um, so if muscle's going up, but fat's not going with it, and it's just staying stable, nailing it, like 

Anna: Hoorah, tell me your secrets. You know what I mean? Like 

Anna: Um, so I think that that's great. And I think too, like. I do really wanna emphasize that you will gain some fat with muscle. Mm-hmm. Like that they, they do go together and I think there's a lot of people that come in with the expectation of like, oh, they move separately and I can just pull this lever and I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna eat more protein, and boom, I'm gonna get more muscle.

Right. You're probably gonna get a little more fat with the two, like you're eating more calories to support muscle growth. Like you don't typically gain muscle in a deficit. Yeah. So like you have to fuel for that. And finding in that sweet spot of. That ratio between your fat and your muscle is important if you want to also keep aesthetics in mind while you do it.

Anna: Um, but hey, if you gain, gain some fat with a muscle, that's what the bulk, bulk and cut cycle is for, you know? Mm-hmm. Doing it in a healthy way. You, you get a little extra meat on your bones. Then when you're ready, we cut it off again. Some muscle's gonna go with it, but it's, the trend line is going in the right direction.

Right? Yep. That's what you wanna look for. But yeah, if, if your muscle mass is growing, your body fat. Staying the same. You're crushing it. 

Matt: You're crushing it. Keep it up. 

Anna: I'm jealous. Yeah, keep going. 

Matt: I'm jealous. 

Anna: Tell me your secrets. That's all I gotta say. 

Matt: All right. All right. Everybody's favorite. Rapid fire myth busting time.

Bu myth number one, scale weight equals progress. 

Anna: Well, here's another one. It depends. Alright. I can't say yes or no because sometimes yes, right. Sometimes no, because what are you losing? You know, or what are you gaining depending on your goal? Like if you're bulking, is it a clean bulk or a dirty bulk?

What's the ratio of muscle to fat mass that you're gaining? So it's important to figure out what it is. And honestly, if you can get on an InBody somewhere near you, preferably us, that'd be great. But, um, do it and figure out what, what it is that you're gaining or losing. Because again, it, it. It does not come close to painting the full picture.

Matt: Yeah. Get the data. Yeah. Especially if you're somebody that's exercising or trying to be healthy. Uh, you gotta know where the weight's going. Yeah. Um, is it muscle mass? Are you losing muscle? Um, yeah. Like what's, what's happening? Uh, myth number two, more Fat loss is always better. 

Anna: No. Just because of the always.

Right. There's definitely people who probably need a little bit. A little bit more on their body to sustain health, have prop their hormones at the appropriate levels, things like that. It's, it's important Ev every body has, I would say, a minimum. It's not an exact, like you must have 10% on your body. Right?

Right. Because everybody's different. But there is definitely a minimum range to be healthy. 

Matt: Yeah. Um, we're gonna skip myth number three. Unstoppable Challenge. Book an InBody scan and circle three numbers on the printout, skeletal muscle mass, body fat percentage, and visceral fat level. Then write one microaction for each one.

For an example, maybe you're gonna add two strength sessions this week where you're gonna strive for 8,000 steps a day, or you're trying to get to bed by 10:00 PM Small changes, big composition shifts. Remember, these numbers aren't verdicts, they're vectors. Use them to steer your plan, your unstoppable by design ready for clarity instead of guesswork.

Schedule your InBody scan@juggernautfitness.com. We'll talk you through the printout and translate it into a plan that fits your goals. Hit follow drop. Quick review if this demystified the data and keep notifications on new shows land every Tuesday. Next episode is a quick mini episode of Top Five Mobility Hacks to Move better, lift better, and Feel Better.

Until then be well be unstoppable.