Racing Rewind: Brazil 2003 - Race of Attrition

Relive the unforgettable chaos of Brazil 2003 — a rain-soaked race of crashes, safety cars and confusion that left teams, fans and even officials unsure who had actually won. From dramatic aquaplaning incidents to a delayed victory decision, we rewind one of Formula 1’s most bizarre and controversial Grands Prix. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Fox now, fox now, fox, fox, fox.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

See how much it was four point eight, four point eight. I think that's a podium. I think that's a podium.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to Racing Rewind, a box box box podcast. Today we are looking at Brazil from the 2003 season, uh, the third race of that year. And I'm Scott, joined today with Mohan as always. How are you, Mohan? I'm very well, thank you. So this Interlagos race was the most insane race I can probably remember. And particularly in a sense of safety standards, some of the stuff we were seeing in this race was just it's just hard to even comprehend that that this was It wasn't even that long ago, really, like uh in the grand scheme of things. How did you find this race?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Uh it's it's funny. I actually completely concur with what you what you've said in terms of the chaos of the race. But it's also one of those races, and I recommend this to any of our listeners as well. Don't just watch it once, go back and watch it several times, and you will get something out of it each time, actually. And it's just a fascinating race to watch, and not just the result of it, it's the weather conditions played a massive part in it. And and it just was just a chaos. They the attrition rate as well through the race. That was amazing to see. Um and um given given what had happened in the first two rounds in Melbourne and in Malaysia, this added more interest, I guess, to the season and was certainly setting the standard compared to what it was previously for that uh for that season.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Now we are we are chopping through this season um as if we're watching it in real time uh and and treating it as such. And uh to tell you the truth, this is the only race I really remember from that entire season. So that's uh that's that's a plus for me, because I I couldn't spoil uh the season if I wanted to. Uh but tell me, Mohan, so heading into um Brazil uh as round three, um how uh how un uh unusual did the 2003 season already feel after uh co David Coulthard's chaotic Melbourne win and then uh Raikonen's breakthrough in Malaysia? Was there already a sense that Ferrari's grip on Formula One had loosened?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Uh it certainly felt like their grip had loosened and after after dominating particularly 2002, um, they were not just setting the tone. They seemed to be actually reacting to it. So uh coming into into Interlagos the season already had felt uh quite unusual. Uh with uh Coultad's win uh with McLaren and Schumacher finishing fourth, and Barrichello actually having to retire in that race. Uh and then in Malaysia with Raikunan getting his first first victory again under McLaren. He left Malaysia leading the championship points, and Barrichello managed to get some points, but overall um it actually felt that Ferrari's grip had actually loosened. Um and they weren't actually slow, they were actually quite far from it. But that invincibility seemed to have gone away uh coming into this race. Um and Certina Schumacher had not won either of the first two races, and Barrichello was having his own battles completing the race. So it and the other part of it also was the fact that it wasn't just McLaren that was being talked about. Renault was suddenly in the conversation as well because Fernando Alonso taking poll in Malaysia and then ended up finishing on the podium, and Truly was actually showing a lot of pace as well. Um and even Jaguar at that point with uh Mark Weber were capable of springing quite a lot of surprises. Uh, you know, he were not a single lap. So coming into Brazil, it kind of felt like the feat had actually been cracked wide open and a lot of interest coming into it, so that there was a lot of fluidity on the grid coming into that. And everyone was waiting to see what the next chapter would be in this season.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Just to reiterate the dominance of Ferrari in 2002, Michael Schumacher had won uh, I believe it was uh ten of the races that year. And he he never and he and and the rest of them were were second place and one third. He was never not on the podium the entire year. And then Rubens Barrichello finished in second place. And his first out of his first five races, four of them were retirements. So uh and he still managed to finish second quite clearly to um one Pablo Montoya. So there was the dominance was extreme in 2002. Um so with the pressure leading up to Brazil uh and McLaren leaving Malaysia on top and Ferrari suddenly chasing rather than than dictating, how much press uh pressure was Rubens Barrichello under arriving uh at his home race? Uh did Interlagos feel like an early must-hit back weekend for Ferrari?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I think coming into Brazil for him, I think the pressure was immense. And I remember I remember seeing obviously there were clips of the crowds and this chant of Ruby, Ruby, Ruby going around around the track. There was a lot of expectation, particularly being his home race. And so he obviously was carrying that around with him. So he was not just sort of na Ferrari's number two scoring points, he was see that he was sort of the Brazilian hope at the track for that home crowd as such. And they're all living under, and he's obviously living under Atencinas Shadow as well on that track. So what we're coming into that race, they needed to make quite a significant statement. And the expectation was that Barrichello would would deliver some of that. Um at the same time, it was sort of not seen as is this like an early hitback that they needed to, given the the results in Melbourne and Malaysia. It was still only round three. But in terms of momentum, it actually put a lot of pressure, not just on Barrichello, but on the team as well, to deliver something significantly. So him taking Paul mattered massively. And it at that point, it actually looked like the perfect opportunity for Ferrari to try and push back up to the front of the grid and the front of the points table as well. So for him, certainly the pressure was both from a competitive point of view, but also being the home race was quite an emotional point of view as well. Because not just him, but Ferrari themselves needed a bit of a reset coming into this race.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Well, Brazil is always a venue where the sky can change everything. So, how much of the weather story was shaped by the forecast alone? And how did the threat of rain alter set up thinking before the race even began?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

So the the the weather was quite central to the story of this of this particular race, even before the race had actually started. So, as we know, this track has quite a reputation for the weather to change quite quickly, for it to swing quite quickly. Um it and that the and the rain threat was not just a background theme coming into that into that weekend. And the practice up to that point had actually shown how quickly it could change from being absolutely saturated to improving quite quickly once the cars actually got out on the track. So, as we know, the qualifying in that's in that year and the season was the single lap twice. And if the weather changed even by a few minutes, it could actually affect the starting grid quite significantly. So um so before the race that forecast had actually hung over the track, everyone was thinking not just about outright pace, but survival as well to some extent. Uh, and they had to modify their cars to actually uh meant to keep with that. So it did as a result of it show a shape the story quite significantly coming into that weekend. Uh, but it what it actually gave everyone was just a general feeling of instability uh overall, uh, and it sort of made qualifying really volatile and and no there was no expectations of how to actually read the grid till the final results came through. And there was a warning sign as well, which actually ended up playing that that there was the start of the race would be delayed, uh, which it ended up being happening. There was a lot of standing water on the track, which had to be flushed out, I guess purely by getting the cars out there. Uh, and how much a part the safety cars actu are would actually play a role in the final result of this round?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

So Barrichello was quite successful in qualifying. Rubens put the Ferrari on pole with a one minute and thirteen eight oh seven second lap, edging Coulthard and Weber by tiny margins. How did that lap feel on the moment, both for Ferrari's recovery and for a Brazilian driver desperate to finally win at home? And mind you, the year before was one of those races where he retired.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

That's right. So for Ferrari itself, obviously that pole position suggested that they or confirmed the fact that they had the pace to strike back uh quite immediately. And up to that point, McLaren had actually owned the narrative for the first two races. But uh Barrichello putting Ferrari back on the on the front row and more importantly on pole position, um, at was quite an emotionally charged venue for him being his home race. It felt like a bit of a reset for Ferrari as a team. And then personally for Barrichello, it obviously was uh an even bigger deal. It wasn't just a poll, it was a Brazilian inner Ferrari on pole, basically. So that that was massively meaningful. And it was also the first poll at that track for a Brazilian driver since Senna in 1995. Um so it carried all of that expectation as well. Uh, and particularly because Schumacher only qualified seventh. Um, and so he was sort of carrying the the weight of Ferrari and weight of the home team quite a bit uh coming into rest day on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Well, Mark Weber uh qualifying third was one of the standout surprises of the weekend. Uh was that one of the clearest signs in early 2003 that the established pecking order uh could be disrupted at least over one lap?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah, actually, because I think Jaguar was certainly not expected to be disrupting uh the first two rows purely on merit and form up to that point. But at Interlagos I mean, Weber did exactly that. Part of that, I must admit, was probably to do with the qualifying format, the one-lap system that we've talked about before, and also the changing track conditions that existed on that day, which had a tendency to sort of compress the field a bit more and create chances for some of the lesser teams. And that's kind of also what happened uh with regard to Weber's performance. So it basically also showed the fact that the front row was no longer completely locked down by the dominant teams of Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, basically, as had happened in the past. So it it served to enhance uh Mark Weber's own standing. And even before all the drama that unfolded in the race, he sort of sent this as a reminder to the rest of the field of his value in the sport and in the grid and what he actually could could contribute. And he obviously, till an incident later in the race, he was actually able to feature quite significantly. So it actually became a weekend where, despite the result, where Weber and Jaguar as a team were quite central to the story in both qualifying and the race. First, as I guess, sort of seen as giant killers, I guess, in uh over over a single lap, but they also had a key part to play in the chaos that subsequently unfolded on track.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Well, you know, the uh with the one lap qualifying and the the unpredictability, the one the one-lap format still helping scramble the order as much as it does. How much of Brazil's grid was pure pace and how much came down to timing, fuel assumptions, and drivers getting just one shot of the track?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

That but that format actually was quite unforgiving and it it really gave teams no margin for correction. So if you hit a wet patch or you caught the track half of the half a minute too early, or you made a small error on one of the corners, it basically defined your entire Saturday, just those at us. And and Mark Webber's result in qualifying was a great example of that. He was quick enough to threaten pole position, but a small mistake cost him that pole position, I believe, and left him third. So the grid, I think, was partly pure pace, but also some teams being a lot a bit more opportunistic on taking advantage of the conditions and and driving to those conditions better than others. And so you could see the strength of sort of Ferrari and McLaren under those conditions. Um, but this is this for me is has always been like the essence of Brazil. And and and given the part that the weather plays at this particular circuit, and we've seen that even in more recent times. That one lab format didn't actually invent any chaos on its own, but it certainly amplified any volatility that existed under that, under that it it obviously determined the order, but it also then added a little bit more unpredictability of what may potentially happen on race day on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Well, after Schumacher finished only fourth in Melbourne and then Malaysia, and with Barrichello now on home soil pole, did Brazil look like the perfect chance for Ferrari to restore normal order before the championship would potentially slip away from them?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah, coming into this, I guess this weekend for it sort of was an ideal opportunity for Ferrari to say, well, enough's enough. We've had a bit of a wobble in the first couple of races, but we're back now. And it mattered a lot for them, not just it not just simply because they needed points, but they needed to actually stamp a certain level of authority on the season as such. So particularly after, as you mentioned before, the dominance that they had in 2002, and there was every expectation that they would carry that dominance into 2003 as well. But that was not the case coming into this. So and if you looked at look at sort of the setup of the weekend, the opportunity was certainly there, and Barry Kellow obviously exploited that, was able to get Paul. But before the race, it certainly looked like there there this was an opportunity to hit the reset button for Ferrari as a team. But as we know, as we talk about a bit later, they did end up leaving largely empty-handed, and it did not materialize what they were expecting to get out of this race.

unknown 14:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Well, the race start was delayed because the torrential rain had left standing water around Interlagos. How much did that immediately set the tone for the afternoon? And did everyone know from the uh the outset that this would be a survival race more than a straight contest of pace?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, and I mean the delayed start, I guess, told you that the main thing initially, even before it rolled out, basically said that this was not going to be a normal afternoon. And that's kind of how it played out as well on the day. And once that that thought process actually set in, it does change the mindset of the drivers and the teams quite a bit. And you sort of stop thinking in terms of ideal race space and start thinking in terms of visibility, aquaplaning, uh, where the rivers of water are collecting and how aggressive the drivers actually could and had to be under the in the breaking zones. And there were repeated crashes and several safety car periods that had to be tracked out. And um, from the outset, it was actually pretty clear that this would be a survival race. And this track is obviously uh inherently being wet, and particularly because of the topography of the track, basically the runoffs can be across the racing line. But in 2003, this actually became quite brutal. And particularly somewhere like turn three, the water crossing the track caught a lot of drivers out, particularly and including someone like Martha Shumaku, who normally would deal with that a lot better. And so once a few crashes actually started to happen in similar places, the race actually took a very different pattern overall. So this is why sort of the delayed part, delayed start, forms quite an important part to this story. It was kind of an opening warning that the established race was partly about strategy, but also about reacting to the conditions as such. Uh, and the actual hierarchy that existed previously may not necessarily transpire in this race as edge. Uh, it was going to be a matter of whoever could survive uh the interruptions and what was fundamentally madness at some points on the track. Um, and that they would be in the right place uh when the when the race in the right place when the race finally actually broke apart.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Well, so many drivers were caught out with aquaplaning and other visibility issues in this race, and they were caught out by the same treacherous conditions. Uh you're often seeing, you know, cars just go one by one off nearly into each other, or actually into each other off the circuit. What was it about the soaked circuit spray, rivers of water, and the the slipper slippery run downhill that made the 2003 race descend into chaos so quickly?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Was it just the fact that this was actually not not uh just the fact that the track was simply wet? It was the fact that there was literally water running across the asphalt in certain sections, particularly around, say, turn three. Um is that drainage better now? I got I can't quite remember being that bad. It improved a lot since then, and I think they've actually changed the topography of the track a lot more. But on a wet day, it is one of the most treacherous circuits to drive on, basically. It certainly improved a lot in this time. And they have obviously learned over the years of how to manage this. But if you get a big downpour, it is still a very treacherous track to actually drive on. And on this particular day, once that that spray had actually built up behind the cars, there was little or no warning for the drivers that they were heading into danger and and very little time to react. The sight lines are very poor, and there's quite fast direction changes on that track, uh, which made it even more treacherous. The visibility piece, as we know, is is is paramount and very, very important. And it's useful at times to actually see the in-car cameras or the the driver's helmet cameras to understand how bad that visibility actually is, and the fact that drivers cannot literally see a car's length in front of them a lot of the time. And if you look at on the day, how blinding that is, is something like uh Fernando Alonso's crash quite late in the race. Came after Mark Weber hit the wall and shed a whole lot of debris. Alonso actually was at that time discussing with his teammates how bad the visibility conditions over that. Uh, and he happened to hit a detached wheel from Weber's Jaguar, uh and then which actually launched into quite a massive impact. It's quite spectacular actually to see, and I certainly recommend our viewers almost rewind that part of the race and re-watch it. Uh, because that that sequence that happened there was kind of the essence of that day and the treacherous conditions under which those are.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Terrifying as well the speed he was going when he he hit that wheel.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Absolutely. And Alonso actually, and it wasn't deliberate by any means, but he had had, I believe, two warnings up to that point about not fully complying to yellow flags. This when he actually caused that crash, he was under that caution for a second time. But he'd obviously these these flags come up so quickly and often drivers don't have time to react to the city. Absolutely. And it wasn't certainly not deliberate on his part, but it is still unsafe in that sense. And and it's it's quite amazing to see the vision that these drivers actually see from the cockpit, and it is so poor. So a lot of the time they are purely driving on instinct and the fact that these drivers, even modern-day drivers, can shut their eyes and they know every corner and every turn of every track. And that's what they're relying on, basically, not what's in front of them. And that's purely reactive on their sense. And this was absolutely essential on this particular day in Brazil. But no, it led to a lot of crashes as a result of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

And I think that's that one of the things that I noticed in this race was uh you had cars coming into the pit. Uh and I haven't seen this in the the modern era at all, but the the they they would come into the pits and they'd flick their visors up just for clearer vision. Uh and I I don't even know if they're allowed to do that these days. But yeah, they're flicking them up to see and you know, not hit these pit crew and what that when they come in. They had tearaways on their visors, as far as I understand back then. But maybe not as good, obviously it didn't work. But yeah, it's it's it's you know if you're ever in a car and your windscan wipers aren't working, you kind of know it's half of what's going on, but it's it's not nothing even close to what they had to put up with.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Exactly. And in particular at the speeds that they're traveling with. And um yeah, I mean, we know what in a torrential downpour, you've got your wipers working at full speed, and you sometimes have to pull up because you literally cannot see in front over the bonnet of your car uh to actually see what's happening. So you can imagine they're in an open top car with all this spray coming at them, and they're not traveling, they're traveling fast enough to clear it, but also fast enough that more spray is actually hitting their visors as such. So incredibly unsafe. But obviously they persevered with the race.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

So Uh Barricello looked genuinely capable of winning uh and led strongly before retiring with fuel system problem problems. Was this the most heartbreaking chapter in his long history of Brazilian Grand Prix frustrations?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Uh definitely one of the most heartbreaking moments, I think, in his entire home race story, and and quite a painful one at that. And and given that up to that point he had actually done so much right. He obviously qualified in poll and he looked strong in the race. And he looked genuinely capable of even under the conditions they were racing, he genuinely looked like capable of controlling the race as well, despite the interruptions that was actually happening and all the chaos that was happening around it. So what sort of makes it particularly cruel was the fact that it wasn't a driver error or a or a mechanical gamble that actually failed. It was purely, you know, mechanical breakdown that actually caused it. So up to that point, he was looking quite strong. And obviously, and having to retire the car and the DNF was particularly heartbreaking for him. So and also up to that point, I think his relationship with the Brazilian Grand Prix in generally had been a story of frustration up to that point. And being the home, he did carry the hopes of the home fans. Never got that fairy tale result that everyone was hoping for. So they obviously most people that watch this or have remembered watching it live at the time do remember this with a massive amount of sympathy for Barrichello and what could have been. And that it could have potentially been one of the most defining victories of his career, but it wasn't to be. Instead of, and we talk about this later, instead of the race becoming known for the end result and the confusion around the end result, it actually has got buried under Barrichello's last chance.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Well, uh on the other end of the s spectrum, uh Jean Qua uh Jean Qua I can't say his name. Jean Nope, can't say it. Can you say it for me on a hunt? Physicella.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Fisikello, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Started only eighth. Yeah, Jordan somehow emerged at the front in the chaos. Um how much of that opport opportunism uh how much of that was opportunism, how much was strategy, and how much was simply uh keeping the car on on the track while others didn't.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Uh this for them I think was uh was a quite a mix of being opportunistic and and a certain amount of strategy and execution as well overall. But uh overall I think they seemed to understand the conditions and what they needed to do. So one of the key moves was actually was instigating a fairly um early pit stuff under the safety car. And it allowed them to refuel the car with quite a particular objective in mind. That objective was to try and get to a fairly critical point in the race where if the race happened to be flagged after the 75% mark distance, which would which would constitute a complete race, that they would inherit the position that they were in at that time. So they they did everything in that possibility to give them the best possible chance to get the result that they did. But strategy alone, as we know, does not necessarily win a race. Physical still had to actually keep the car on the on the track when others were sliding off and crashing and all that chaos was going on around him. And the fact that he, I think he drove a very intelligent race under those conditions and and benefited from it. So a fair bit of it was opportunistic, but it was also you cannot actually ignore the discipline under which he drove that car in those conditions when so many around him weren't.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Gian Carlo, is that right?

unknown 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

I got a Juan Pablo like popping into my brain when I'm saying it's messing me up. So moving on to McLaren, uh, even without dominating the weekend, Reichen and again found himself right at the front when it mattered. Was this another example of McLaren extracting maximum championship value while others were throwing points away?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah, this was actually another example, ex a very good example of them extracting the maximum they potentially could. They did not dominate the weekend in the way Ferraris sometimes did at their peak, but they basically stayed present. They were opportunistic. And once the race kind of turned into a survival mode, Raikkonen found himself at the sharp end basically. And this was kind of becoming a bit of a theme of McLaren's campaign early in the 2003 season. So the car itself wasn't necessarily the flashiest package on the grid, but it was good enough, it was stable enough, and paired with two drivers who knew how to collect points for the team. So, given the results they had had in Melbourne and Malaysia was a good example of that. So, this actually for them is what makes the result they got in Brazil so impressive. It wasn't the emotional headline that Barrichello had, nor was it the fairy tale that Jordan had. But when the when everything cleared, they still had the championship leader. At that point, they came away with being the lead in the points as such. So this showed that this was another case of them taking maximum value, while other teams seemed to, whatever not driving to the conditions, seemed to actually throw points away or potential points away. Whereas McLaren drove within their limitations and exploited the most they could out of the car under those conditions.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Alright, so Fernando Alonso backed up his Malaysia breakout by running near the front again, uh only for his race to end in a major accident amid the spray and wreckage. At that point in 2003, did Brazil reinforce the sense that Renault had a genuine future star in a sense?

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yeah, actually, despite the result, it it did reinforce that. And you know, it's the crash itself, as we talked about, is one of the more defining images of that of that race. And while, as I said, at the speed that he actually hit it, he's lucky to come away with just minor bruising that uh that he walked away with it. But despite that crash, it actually did nothing to dent the reputation that he had actually built up up to that point. If not, it actually probably even heightened it a little bit. Uh in Malaysia, it actually shown that he certainly was good enough to belong at the front. And also Brazil, up to the up to the point in the crash, that kind of under he I kind of underlined it with the with the way he was driving. So it it sort of added to the impression that this he was the real thing at that point. And the fact that that he could actually feature quite significantly in the remainder of the season. Uh, and not just him, but Renault as a team as well, basically, had had the had the opportunity to feature a lot strongly. So it's a it's a very strong sign of of his potential and the fact that up to the crash that he was making the most of that potential.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Uh look, with the repeated crashes, poor visibility, and a track that kept punishing the slightest mistake, should the race have been stopped earlier, or was this just the brutal reality of a wet weather Formula One in that era?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

This is obviously one of the hardest questions that come out of this particular race. And it sort of sits between what the culture of the sport was around that time and what balancing it against what modern expectations of this sport is. I guess in hindsight, it's quite fair to ask whether that race should have been stopped earlier. The evidence itself is quite strong. There were obviously repeated crashes in the in and around the same area on the track. The same water seemed to be catching out multiple drivers. And the visibility was atrocious, basically. To say it's bad is quite an understatement. So there is the argument, the fact that it should definitely should have been stopped a lot earlier. There is also a counter-argument as well, is the fact that uh the officials did respond very quickly with multiple safety car periods, and particularly after the the Alonzo Weber uh crash happened after it was near the 75% mark for the race. That kind of meant that they decided at that point quite correctly to red flag it. So it wasn't necessarily a thing about, well, this is Formula One, get on with it and move on. It it did genuinely push the absolute limit of what would be considered safe even now or back then, basically. And that there are thresholds that shouldn't be crossed and the race should be red flagged. And this was a good example of that, perhaps, that it should have perhaps been stopped a bit earlier.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah, look, particularly there was one instance where a car was flying off the track where you had the marshals already trying to help another car that was off the track, and there was a marshal that was leaping up onto the the uh the tyre wall trying to get away from the new car that was hurdling towards him. That kind of thing is something I'm very glad we don't see anymore, because that was that's that's quite scary. And and if he had his back turned to that car, who knows what could have happened there. Um there's the certainly the safety measures we have now are are there for very good reasons. And I even heard um I think it was uh uh Damon Hill speaking the other day where he uh and it was a couple of different former drivers that were talking about how the times where their their their helmets made contact with the barrier. And that was quite shocking for me to even comprehend. Like, you know, the you just I know we've we've talked about the halo at length, but the the you know, the it's just actually having head contact with something at the speeds that they're going at is shocking. You'd think that the helmet's there as a last resort. You know, and to if you talk about how you walked away quite groggy or couldn't remember, you know, moments after that crash or race or whatnot. You know, it's a very different time, and you know, in many ways I'm glad I've moved away from it. And we're probably lucky not to have more terrible issues happen back then.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah, and also if you think of um not just in Formula One, but if you think of what we know now about head impacts in other sports as well, and the long-lasting effects of some of those impacts actually, which were not known at very well at the time, they've been studied a lot more. And these days, in any sport, any any head impact is assessed very, very quickly because there is known to be long-lasting effects. So who's to say that's not the case as well, that you know it when it shows up, it's 20 years too late to have picked it up, basically. Um, but no, the the the concerns have grown. Sorry, the the it's it's good to see that the sport has followed that that trend as well, that they do take that a lot more seriously now.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Absolutely. Um, and particularly like the the way they read the amount of G forces that uh the cars undergo in these crashes and how they respond to that as well. It's um it's uh it shows how far the technology's come as well, really. So tell me, Mohan, there was a lot of red flag confusion uh at the end of the race. The race was stopped early, uh, with the results initially misunderstood before being corrected days later. How did the countback rules create so much confusion and why is Brazil 2003 still remembered as one of F1's strangest official results?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah, this actually, the confusion around this race, it sort of it sort of almost gave the result a quite a surreal feel about it. So that the so the the the the requirement though, the rule is basically so under the rules that existed at the time. So if a race is stopped and not resumed after more than 75% of the race distance have been completed, the result is taken from two laps before the lap on which the red flag was was flown. So that's confusing it off on its own, basically. And so that effects of makes it quite a fairly counterintuitive system. So what happened at the Delagos was that the official timekeeping initially indicated that the race had been stopped at a point when uh Raikonen, not Fisikella, was the leader on that countback. So Kimi was actually declared the provisional winner. He went to the podium, celebrated, McLaren celebrated the win. But Jordan felt that there's something had been missed, and they lodged a complaint because Fisikella had actually passed Raikonan before the stoppage sequence in a way that the countback should have shown that he was ahead. So F1 actually went uh, FIA went back and reviewed the timing data and found that the red flag had come come on at lap 56 rather than the early understanding that existed. So once that was corrected, that countback went back to lap 50. By effect, put Fisikella in front, making him the official winner. And it's actually quite interesting to see an interview with him afterwards, and he'd obviously given up and they had gone back, and I think he got woken up at one o'clock in the morning or something like that to be told, oh, congratulations, by the way, he won the race. So it was quite a quite an anti-climax, I guess, for him as well, because he didn't get the rite of passage of celebrating on the podium. And then all of that, it sort of meant that Naraikonen had to hand back the trophy. Um, and and Ron Dennis had to had to hand back the constructors' trophy, all those kind of things basically at the time. And as all of that collectively means that it is cons it is to this day seen as one of the strangest results that has ever had to be delivered. But um uh because it it could have been a lot cleaner if they had done it then and there. But all of that has related added to the drama of that particular race, I believe. Not that it needed any more drama.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Well, not only that, uh they probably thought they were quite fortunate because Fizakella's car burst into flames not long after he stopped it and parked it after the race, so it probably wouldn't have made it to the end anyways. It was uh yeah, wild uh series of events. Um, like you said, uh because of the timing corrections, Fizakella, not Rikenan, was declared the official winner. How improbable did that feel for Jordan to win that? And does it stand as one of the sport's most extraordinary upset wins?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Yeah, actually, certainly felt felt probable, and particularly given that he was starting eighth on the grid and driving a car that was not taken seriously in terms of outright pace uh in that season. So they weren't expect to compete with the likes of Ferrari, McLaren, or Williams on that team. But by end of that amazing chaotic afternoon, he had his first Formula One win basically, and Jordan had their their fourth win up to that point. Um it it what makes it even more of an upset, I guess, that it wasn't something that was particularly gifted. No, he had he still had to perform, he still had to put that car in a particular position that when the countback happened, that he was ahead enough to qualify for that win. So it still to this day qualifies as one of the most extraordinary upsets, I think, of all races that I've ever watched. And the fact that, you know, for a car and a team that weren't expected to punch up ahead, they certainly did basically and competed with uh with uh with the la with the more reputable teams. And um he won it in amongst all that chaos. And as a result of it, I think that result, and not just the race itself, but that results as well is added to the fact that this has become a very unforgettable race of all time, actually.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

So so what did this race really say about 2003 after Melbourne, Malaysia, and um then you know this this rain-soak madness at Interlagos? Uh did the opening three rounds make it clear that uh uh up to this point that 2003 would be defined by volatility? Um or is it you know at this point in time, was it far less uh certain that Ferrari uh was was Ferrari now far less certain to be to to move on to potentially win after the what was expected in 2002?

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Definitely. I think I sort of the the key phrase you mentioned there is about the that that there was less certainty around Ferrari given what they were coming into that season with. I mean, they still felt quite powerful, they were still quick and they were still ultimately able to deliver some results. But yeah, after the third race, basically, they certainly did not project that inevitability that they had in 2002. Um Schumacher was no longer sweeping the field, but Barrichello actually had flashes of strength, but they weren't able to convert that to uh valuable results as such. And when you think of teams like Jordan and Jaguar, who were not expected to feature significantly at the fact that they were delivering results. So this kind of gave us or set the tone for for 2003 so that it wouldn't be uh just a single team procession as has happened in 2002. Uh it it it basically meant that this was going to be a season where uh consistency was very important. Uh the weather would any any changing weather conditions would play a massive part. Uh and and good strategy actually could transform weekends for for teams and drivers. So um So this made the feeling this gave us the feeling that 2003 was going to be quite a competitive and unpredictable season, but also somewhat of a messy season as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah, it's certainly up to this point um there's no there's no clear uh yeah, there's no clear leader at the moment, really. Um so um but looking back with hindsight, I suppose, just to this race, what what would what's the what's most memorable uh for you, uh Mohan uh out of Brazil 2003? Was it Fisakella's uh win or the Barracello's uh home race heartbreak, or um, you know, Alonso's uh beginning of this this what looks like a coming of age season. What was it for you?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Um I think for me it's a combination of things, I guess, at once, which which makes this uh one of the most fascinating races I've watched. And if you want the headline, obviously it's it's definitely Fisichella's unlikely breakthrough win and Jordan's win. Yeah, very unlikely circumstances as well. That that alone should give this race a place in Formula One folklore permanently. However, you have to balance it out with uh Barrichello's heartbreak uh in his home race, having had Paul, uh, and the fact that his uh DNF came out of came out through no fault of his own. Um but as I mentioned before, uh Fernando Alonso's form, uh even though he himself was not able to finish the race, um the his form up to that point actually was quite a significant topping, talking point. So for me, that particular race was a combination of all of that, which it to this day white actually makes of a very memorable race. And it's actually one that I have re-watched many times, not just as part of this conversation, but just when I've had free time. If I had to choose a race to re-watch, it often features up there basically.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Well, for me, it's definitely the rain and the chaos that the I will forever remember this for. So just to the championship standings after the conclusion of this race, Kimi Raikkonen leading on 24 points, David Coulbard in second on 15, Fernando Alonso up into third place from four uh from fifth, sorry, 14 points. Jean up got done it again. Fizzakella, a fourth position uh on 10 points. He went up 12 places with that, uh, what ended up being uh a win. And then Jano Trulli on nine points, uh he went up two places to fifth position. And the constructors McLaren Mercedes on 39 points, Renault move into second from third on 23, Ferrari drop a place in to third with 16 points, Williams BMW holding fourth on 16 points, and Jordan Ford went up two positions to fifth with 10 points. Uh anything else for you, Mohan, on this race?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Uh no, actually, and I certainly would encourage our viewers that if you uh in addition to listening to us, I would certainly recommend watching this race, even if you there's two formats available on F1 TV and on YouTube actually. Uh, there is the complete race, which is uh just on two hours. But there is a there is uh for anyone who's time poor, there is uh a highlights package which runs for about 20 minutes, which is useful to watch as well. Uh but yeah, it's it's very it's very good to to have this hand in hand actually, watch, watch the vision of this race to know what a chaotic race it actually was. Um and and let alone the countback that happened at the end. It goes hand in hand with the conversation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Next up is San Marino race four of the 16 in 2000 in the 2003 season. Uh we will see you next week or in a couple weeks when we cover that one. Uh if you enjoyed listening to Racing Rewind, we have our normal podcast, which is Boxbox Box, which also includes this podcast as well. Uh and you can if you do enjoy listening to us, uh we cover many different F1 topics in that main podcast. So uh if you're listening to this on Racing Rewind, uh please check us out there. Uh and if you're listening to this on Boxbox Box, you're already here with us. So thank you for joining us again. Thank you, Mohan. Uh anything else to add?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Uh thank you. No, it's actually it's it's uh I've been looking forward to talking about this particular one actually because of uh the all the events that happened in this particular race. It's one of the most uh um enthralling races to have watched of all time. Um and it and it certainly sort of set the set the tone for the rest of this 2003 season.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

All right, we'll see you next time. Same time, same place. Thank you, Maha. Thank you.