Supernaut
Supernaut is a podcast about spirituality, sobriety, suicide, and the full spectrum of being human.
Hosted by Beth Kelling, the show opens space for honest conversations about healing, identity, and the parts of life we often keep quiet.
As the show has grown, mental health has become a defining theme. Many guests have shared deeply personal experiences with anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and loss. In response, Supernaut is dedicating more space to conversations around suicide—approaching the topic with care, honesty, and compassion.
The goal is not to sensationalize pain, but to reduce stigma, encourage vulnerability, and remind people that struggling does not mean failing—and that help, connection, and light are possible.
Whether you’re sober-curious, spiritually inclined, or simply looking for real conversations that make you feel less alone, you’re welcome here.
If you or someone you love is struggling with suicidal thoughts, help is available in the U.S. by calling or texting 988. If you’re outside the U.S., visit findahelpline.com.
Supernaut
Struggles, Silver Linings & Conquering Imposter Syndrome
What happens when the storm never really passes? Matt joins us for a candid, grounded conversation about living with Crohn’s disease, navigating sleep-starved years, and making the tough calls that trade comfort for health. We start with a song about mortality that turns into a lesson on gratitude, then walk through small-town mischief, parenting in a screen-first world, and what it means to let kids learn by bumping into life.
The health journey is raw and practical: ER runs, a major surgery, meds that stop working, and the looming choice of an ostomy balanced against the promise of finally sleeping through the night. Food rules change by the day, fiber becomes a hazard, and hydration turns strategic—right down to DIY electrolytes. Matt also explains why he stopped drinking without a dramatic bottom, how that disrupted the Midwest rhythm of “everything includes beer,” and why friendships that last are about presence, not pints.
Imposter syndrome gets a frank takedown. A single sentence—“If you didn’t belong here, you wouldn’t be here”—reframes self-doubt, but the daily work is mindset: growth over certainty, feedback over ego, and listening as a leadership skill. We touch AI and information overload, choosing focus instead of doomscrolling, and why “touch grass” isn’t a joke but a reset. Through it all, usefulness becomes a compass: be steady for your people, set real boundaries, and keep community close—at work, at home, and on the golf course where joy still gets a front-row seat.
If this talk gives you one sentence you needed, share it with a friend. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: where are you choosing growth over certainty this week?
0:00 Music, Mortality, And Gratitude
2:30 Childhood Bonds And Pushing Limits
5:15 Parenting, Tech, And Letting Kids Learn
8:20 Belonging, Best Friends, And Marriage
13:20 Golf, Joy, And Mental Space
16:02 Crohn’s: Diagnosis And Hard Years
27:35 Food, Flares, Sleep, And Control
31:30 Sobriety, Midwest Culture, And Hydration
36:40 Imposter Syndrome And Growth Mindset
43:20 Feedback, Ego, And Not Taking It Personally
47:40 AI, Overload, And Choosing Focus
53:10 Tolerance, Tribes, And Touching Grass
58:20 Future Fears, Empty Nest, And Usefulness
1:04:10 Boundaries, Being There, And Saying I Love You
1:08:40 Work, Community, And Everyday Stories
1:12:20 Reflections, Affirmations, And Closing
Welcome to SuperNAUNT, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Today our guest is Matt Hagerness. Matt and I went to high school together more than 20 years ago, which is still just crazy to say. He gave me a ton of topics we can cover from life growing up, quitting drinking, mental and physical struggles, the future, and conquering imposter syndrome. Like he said, we always have great conversations, so I know this is going to be fun.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:I asked you to pick a song for us to listen to together before we started so that we could get aligned and on the same frequency. What song did you pick?
SPEAKER_00:So I picked Pearl Jam uh Last Breath. Uh it's a song about if you know, eventually life is gonna, we're all gonna pass. And it's really to me, it really resonates with just slow, especially if they've hit like I'm technically over halfway through with my life, which is a tough pill to swallow. Um, because you always kind of think you're gonna live forever. I I don't know, maybe that's a male thing.
SPEAKER_03:No, I feel that way.
SPEAKER_00:And it's kind of like, okay, well, let's just slow down and be thankful for what's in front of us right now. Like, um, there's a line in the song that some people have 10 people, some have one, some have zero. I feel I'm blessed that I have countless people that I love and appreciate and who help me be a better person. So it's just it's really struck a nerve as I've gotten older in life. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, slowing down and appreciating that. Yeah, I just finished a book that was talking about how if you are broke, oh, it's called Happy Money, and it's the like Japanese art form of um how to spend your money in a happy way. Okay. And he was talking about how, like, let's say you did lose all of your money, you were completely broke. Like, do you have 50 people that you could go live with for one week that they would let you live with for a week? Or 25 that you could live with two times in a year for one week, and then in one year, like, you know, that would give you enough money to start over. Yeah, I think I have that many people. So, like, what are we really scared of when it comes to money? Why do we worship it and hold on to it so hard? Like, we need it so much, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And I I agree with you 100%. And Pearl Jam is kind of one of those bands that at least for maybe like our generation, the generation prior, like the Gen Xers, it's kind of like it started out really angsty. Um, and as they as they grew as a brand, like got older as a band, like their music became more just about them aging and them growing up. That so it's just kind of I think it's an important band for like our generation, especially if you like rock music or don't. Um with a there's actually a really good cover of that song, Willie Nelson and his son sing it, and it's very good. It's just straight up them just playing guitar, super good.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I love it. Another sign that I've never listened to the words or appreciated like I do right now. So thank you so much for bringing that.
SPEAKER_00:No problem. This was a tough one to pick one side. Yeah, because I told you, like, there's so many songs that I love, but uh this one just I don't know, it's just hit me. It's probably since like COVID. Like, because I think COVID made a lot of us just kind of rethink our lives and slow down and realize slow down and just realize what's important, especially us, like Katie and I, we just kind of hunker down a little bit, not be just because of her career, like she was frontline worker, that kind of stuff. I have uh I'm immunocompromised, so I had to kind of be a little more careful than others, but yeah, yeah. So it's just a song I love.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, love it. Okay, so growing up, it's funny when I think of my childhood, I can only think of like a few memories that really stand out. Do you have some memories that stand out from your childhood?
SPEAKER_00:Um, nothing overall, um, just like core, like not like hardcore core memories, but just what I felt. Um, like I had a great group of friends, like truly we did. Like our class, we got along really well. Guys, girls, all of us, like we all just really clicked. I remember we spent so much time at Maggie Hansen's house and like watching movies and just hanging out, and we weren't even doing anything, like we weren't doing anything wrong. We were just being kids and being respectful, other than like sneaking up on top of the elementary school, that kind of stuff. But uh, it was so easy, and really what are we doing up there?
SPEAKER_03:It's not it's just a flat roof, but like pushing those boundaries and those limits to say, like, as kids, as humans, what can we do? What can we get away with?
SPEAKER_00:Right, absolutely. And we just had like a lot of fun. Our group was just we weren't drama, we were just fun, and that's that's really what I remember. And I remember um family being a big piece of it as well. So I was really close to my grandfather, close to my parents. My sister and I got closer as we both aged, where there's like a five-year age gap, and I'd say we've gotten a lot closer in the past 20 years than we were younger. And I wish that's probably one of my regrets growing up is not being closer with my sister at the younger age, but we're much better now.
SPEAKER_03:So, how do you feel about the kids like your kids and other kids growing up now with technology? Do they not have the chance to feel those uh experiences the same way that you did?
SPEAKER_00:I think so because and I equate this to kids not getting their driver, like wanting to get their driver's license when they get 16. Um, for us, that was like that first bit of freedom. Um, it was our first way to go hang out with our friends whenever we wanted. And now kids can jump on their game, they can jump on their like Xbox or PlayStation, talk to their friends whenever they want. They're at their fingertips at all times. They don't have to go somewhere to talk to them. And I think that's a huge I think they're missing out. Um I do, I really do think that they're missing out on that. Um both Katie, like Katie and I also feel like our kids need to kind of mix it up a little bit. Like, don't do the stuff we did. Like we were we were kind of naughty, like we did some, we made some poor choices, um, as I think most kids do, because that's how they learn, pushing boundaries like we just talked about. But it's also like, okay, if you get like I remember Addy got like in trouble teepeeing, or like there was a teepee war and stuff. I'm like, if this we're kind of annoyed by having to clean up toilet paper, which it's an annoyance, it's a hundred percent annoyance. And I after a while, I'm just like, if this is the worst these kids are doing right now, we're doing pretty good.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah. Oh my god, James got caught teepeeing by the cops. Like the cops called me and he was crying saying, Is this the worst thing anybody in our family has ever done? Like, um, no, I got caught with meth when I was 17, James. You know, like so yeah, I see what you're saying. Like, you kind of gotta make mistakes to learn.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, it's the only way you learn.
SPEAKER_03:And I think the kids are a little bit more sheltered now, and it's scary to go out to the world because absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And I think as parents, we know the wrong we were much more open, or we see have more access to what the bad stuff in the world. You know, when our when we were growing up, our parents had the local news, the newspaper, and you know, word of mouth. Well, now, and the news cycle was really long. Now, if something bad happens in town, the whole world knows about it and it's gone within 10 minutes. So, or we can just search up at our fingertips what are kids into these days or what's causing them, what are they getting into to cause trouble? And we know that's kind of it's tough. And um, I think we've all seen the memes where you know, like Gen X and the millennials, we grew up partying in cornfields and hay fields, and now our kids are the ones with life 360. You know, so it's kind of it's it's also our little bit of our fault too that we always know where our know where our kids are, and not that that's a bad thing, but we gotta let them figure it out too, so that they don't when they do get out, they don't go hog wild and just kind of go overboard.
SPEAKER_03:So definitely. Anything else um from growing up that you plan to talk about?
SPEAKER_00:Um, you know, nothing, nothing too me. You know, I I and I had a great group of friends, like I always said this, but this is kind of a topic that is gonna be ongoing, and this is the imposter syndrome. Like, I I had a really smart group of friends, like they were bright, and I was always like the B student. So like I always kind of felt like a little weird, like they'd go off to their honors stuff, and I'd be like, I remember one time it was me and another girl in our chemistry class with Mr. Oz. And he just him like, and he was a weirdo, like he he was odd. Like, I shouldn't say weirdo, that's kind of a little mean, but he was odd, and he just looked at us like, what are the like how are you guys not A students? And it's like, well, we're trying our best, like to be a B student, that's average, yeah. You know, it's above average. So um that uh I never had that, like, and maybe this is an extreme, but it's definitely my perception, and my your perception is your reality, is I never had that like one like best friend, you know. Um like I think we can all see the the groups like when we were growing up. Like everybody had a better like you had KD Joe. You know, um Kill and Jesse had each other. Kill and Jesse had each other, like and I and I was a really good friends with them, but I just never like felt I had like that one person, yeah. So that that was always tough, yeah. And I and I think that's that's kind of continued up until 17 years ago, where I just never had that like best friend. And then it was Katie, then it was my wife, Katie, yes, and we've been married for 17 years.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I always think about like when we come to this planet at you know, whatever, however you believe we get here, we get different things that other people might not have, you know. So it's all pros and cons to the different skills and um personality traits that we have. But um yeah, I guess I was lucky enough to always have that person, and I've never thought about that or appreciated that enough either. Sometimes I've thought, oh, I don't have this, or I don't have that in a friendship, or like a good group of girlfriends, or whatever, you know. I have like 10 different groups of girlfriends, but I'm not like so close with one, you know. I'm like in each one a little bit. So I've thought about it that way before.
SPEAKER_00:That's kind of how I've always kind of felt. And I I might have always had that like good friend, like that best friend, like the label, like I always thought it was weird, like labeling your best friend. I yeah, I just always thought it was weird. Like it's kind of what was that like Dane Cook movie where like best man should have had the lightning bolt insignia. I can't remember what it was called, but yeah, um yeah, it's just always it's just always been a little weird for me.
SPEAKER_03:Well, when I first get to meet people, like within a week or two, they're like, okay, but that's the fourth person you've called your best friend. And I'm like, hmm, yeah. But Katie Joe has been, yeah, definitely the study, the the A1. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. For 35 years.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah, since kindergarten.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, it definitely and that changed once you know Katie and I started dating and then we got married.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. So, like, but the lucky thing that you get is your marriage and that. Like a lot of people don't consider their spouse their best friend. Did you know that? Really? Yeah, I've heard people say that they don't consider their spouse their best friend, and um so you do get that.
SPEAKER_00:I do, I do. I'm very fortunate for that. Yeah, um, sure, we you know, we have our spats and stuff, as most people do, and even best friends, yeah, exactly. So we we still we share everything, and um, we might not communicate the best at times, but that's every relationship, there's always communication barriers, and we're both very busy people, especially with our kids.
SPEAKER_03:So um and the growing that that's gonna take because like every generation, our grandparents like they communicated so much worse. So we're still just getting better at it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I was I was just listening to was a diary of a CEO when they were talking about how someone was teaching they their business model as an investment or like a family business model was teaching widowed women how to write a check and how to spend money because in the like the 30s, 40s, 50s, probably up until the 70s, 80s, women didn't write check, they didn't pay bills, they didn't do any of that stuff. So they didn't know how to, you know, if their husband died, because women always typically live longer, they didn't know how to do that stuff. So that was a class that this this this family taught, and then the son eventually wanted to teach like how to become wealth, like how to grow wealth yourself.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, let's just that is wild.
SPEAKER_00:So, like that generation, how that changes from generation to generation, and I think that's even um as generations grow, like we become more tolerant of other things, like of other genders, races, sexual beliefs, religions. Like, I don't know, like I at least I hope that's that's the way I am, at least, and I hope everybody else is. Like, I hope that we can all be a little more tolerant to other to different things as we as a generation's like I want my kids to be better than I was, I want their kids to be better than I than they were, you know, that kind of stuff. So and I think that's why people are more passionate about these topics now. And I'm not trying to get political by any means, especially with what's going on in our state and world right now, but I think um, yeah, I think the tolerance is and just growth as changes through generations.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, and uh I just I have to say this every time I have the chance to remind people that the year I was born, 1986, it was still legal to rape your wife in the state of New York. So I just have to say that every time that I can because there's so many people that still think, oh, it wasn't, or you know, that we've had this freedom forever. No, it really wasn't that long ago that we didn't. So we have to make sure that we keep it.
SPEAKER_00:It was only 40 years ago.
SPEAKER_03:That's wild.
SPEAKER_00:Especially as a state like New York. That's I mean, that's a pretty liberal state. I think it's similar to Minnesota.
SPEAKER_03:Forward, where they'd be uh like the first, they're usually the first one to do things, and they might have been. They I'm not saying that they were the last state. Right, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00:But like that that that state would still only 40 years ago. That's that blows my mind. Huh. That's a fun fact.
SPEAKER_03:Is there anything in your life right now that feels or what in your life right now feels as similar to those moments?
SPEAKER_00:I would just say like being goofy with my kids, um like going out and golfing with my friends. I say, like, you know, like we can just we revert back to teenagers and it's just fun. Like we give each, you know, bust each other's balls, we tell jokes, we listen to music. It's just innocent fun.
SPEAKER_03:And yeah, well, god, I'm glad that you get uh a lot of time like that in your life.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And and I think like golf is also really challenging, like mentally. It's it's a physical game, but it's so like you can be goofy, but you can also still think. Like people always say that baseball is like the thinkers' game, but I think it's more golf too, because it's just not go up and hit the ball, like you have to have a little bit of a little bit more than a lot of like six things at once, right? Or like, yeah, probably more sometimes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, yeah. I like in the beginning of the season, I'll start off with like just think about watching the ball, right? And then a week later, I'm like, think about watching the ball and follow through, and then the next week, and then it's probably just unlimited the things you can think of every time. But I need to like train my brain into it slowly.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And we have like a really fun group of people that we golf with, it's like the most fun.
SPEAKER_03:Springbrook is like the best place, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's kind of fantasy land, like you know, it's we can't. I mean, it's not that we're destructive or anything, but like no other golf course can you do the stuff that we do there. And like on a random weekend night to go out and just have fun with your friends and yeah, mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, love that. Okay, so let's get into your journey with Crohn's disease.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So I I guess I even when I was like a baby, I had like stomach issues. Like my parents like had to bring me in as a todd, like a baby baby, and get x-rays on my stomach because I had digestion issues.
SPEAKER_03:I remember having to drink like prune juice as a kid, like and gross, like and your sister probably didn't have to adore like what is going on?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like having to drink prune juice. I'm like, why prune juice? But I'm sure that was like the whatever remedy at the time. And like even as a teenager, I just remember like certain foods hurt my stomach, um, a lot of angst, like if I was nervous or stressed, like my stomach would have issues. Um, so it was always just something that I knew was there, but I just thought everybody had it. Um, and I guess we should kind of backtrack too what Crohn's disease is.
SPEAKER_03:Good point.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so Crohn's disease is an autoimmune disease, just like type 1 diabetes or rheumatoid arthritis, it's where your um immune system attacks itself, attacks your body. So, say with rheumatoid arthritis, it'll attack a joint, or for my instance, my immune system attacks my digestive system. So, starting from the mouth all the way to the entire digestive system. There's something else called ulcerative colitis, which just attacks your colon, your large intestine. So I've I'm the fortunate one that gets the whole the whole system. Um so it it's always been a struggle. Uh, but I didn't know what it was until I guess I never got really, really sick, actually, until it was actually our honeymoon. Um, so I had I was working as an electrician, I'd just gotten laid off a week before we got married. So we were our I mean, we were young, we didn't have any money. So you get laid off the week before you get married. Um, the stress of a wedding. We had just found out Katie was pregnant with Addie. Um, and then so just and it was like, oh, 2008. So like the economy was awful, nobody had any money, there was no jobs, it was just really stressful time. So I remember like we were on, we went to Brainerd or like Breezy Point for our honeymoon, and I was just sick, like in the bathroom the whole time, just sick, sick, sick. And I I'll try not to go a lot of details because it's it can be a little anything with digestion can be a little gross, but I was just sick and didn't know what it was, and we just kind of oh, you must have must have ate something weird. So I think fast forward a year or two years, and Lily was Katie was pregnant with Lily and I was working nights at the time at ECE. Um, I was I was working in their called it system control, like dispatching outages and stuff, and it's a 24-7, 365 job. So someone has to work nights, and it was my turn. And I remember I just got super sick and like in the bathroom all the time and losing weight and couldn't eat and all this stuff, and eventually I just had to go to the ER. Like I was just sick, frail, no energy.
SPEAKER_03:Had the doctors been giving you any hints out of it?
SPEAKER_00:No, I had never it had never even really come up. Like it had, but it had never like it would always go away on its own. Well, this time it wasn't going away. It was like three weeks of just bad sick. So I went to the ER one night, they ended up releasing me. I went up for like three nights in a row, and eventually they kept me. And it was in town here. And I remember I was here for like there for like two nights, and I was just in and out of pain. Um, I remember I had this very vivid or very severe pain in my lower back. And uh, it would like just send up jolts up my spine and down my right leg. I just remember like tensing up. Like if you've ever been hit with like a taser or a stun gun or like a tense unit, they call them for like physical therapy, where it just kind of like jolts you, it was like that, and it'd just be at random, and it it was excruciating pain and on like hardcore pain medicine, like dilated, which gave me super vivid dreams. If you've ever been on any of that, it's truly scary. Uh, but then eventually they they sent me to we asked for to get moved because they wanted to do like an exploratory surgery in town, and we were both like, uh, Katie and I were both like, no, we're not doing that. So I went to a hospital in the metro. I can't remember which one, just because I was I was on Pluto with how many painkillers I was on and stuff. And within being there, like two, maybe like I will probably say like half a day, they're like, Yeah, you have Crohn's disease. I'm like, what the heck is Crohn's disease? And that's when I learned about how it's uh autoimmune disease that attacks your digestive system.
SPEAKER_03:And what tests did they do to make sure of that? Or how did they figure out that?
SPEAKER_00:So they I had to like give some uh bowel samples, and then uh I had to have a colonoscopy to check, and then then they could see all the scar tissue and the ulcers and that kind of stuff inside. So that that kind of definitely it made sense. Like everything kind of clicked from my my youth and that stuff. Um and it really changed my outlook on a lot of things. Like I was on some and still am on some really like hardcore immunosuppressive drugs to basically all they they don't really you can't treat this disease or you can't cure the disease, all you can do is treat it. So, and that's with any autoimmune disease. Um, that's why like type one diabetics they have to do insulin and that sort of stuff. Uh rubotoid or are people with RA have to take medication. All you're doing is controlling inflammation and trying to mask, trick your immune system into not attacking you. So that's why I I've always been a little cautious with like germs and stuff now, since I've been diagnosed for 15, almost 15 years. So yeah, so it's been it's been a struggle uh since then. Um I had a couple good years after that. That would have been 2011. Uh had a few good years, and then I think 2017 or 18 is when things started to go bad again. Like medications weren't working, and it was time my doctor decided it was time for me to have a surgery. So I had most of my large intestine removed. Um, you remember that? Like Katie was working at the depot at that time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I came down to sit with her while you were in surgery. I forgot that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I am my best friend growing up, Alana, had the surgery as well. So I knew um a little bit more about it than I think most people did.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I forgot that. I guess I was probably pretty drugged up. Um yeah, my surgery was actually really it was a complicated one. It was supposed to be a three-hour surgery and it ended up taking six hours. So like I feel terrible for Katie, like sitting there, like, okay, this was supposed to be done. Like, what's going on? Um, and we had a lot of complications at the hospital. They took me off my pain meds too fast, and um yeah, there's some other complications. But since then, you know, after that, I had a couple really good years um where I didn't have issues so much. Um, still masking it with the medication. Um, really no pain at that point. I'd have days, of course, but um the past that changed probably like three, four years ago now. I've been really struggling. Um, medications haven't been working. My inflammation markers have been very high. Um, I think the normal range is like zero to 200 for those inflammation markers. The highest I've seen is 2500, which is like crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, normal zero to 200, and you're at 2500.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's zero to 250, and I'm at 2500, yeah. So not reason it's been coming down slowly. Um, but it's it's kind of at the point now where I've exhausted all the medications, and it's it's probably gonna lead to surgery, another surgery.
SPEAKER_03:To take more of the large intestine out?
SPEAKER_00:It'd be removing the rest of it, so then I'd be with an ostomy bag the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_03:And so you think that's coming up?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think so. Like I'm still.
SPEAKER_03:And you think it's inevitable?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's inevitable. I I knew I always knew that there would be another surgery somewhere down the line. You just don't know when. Um, it's your body is always gonna attack itself with with autoimmune diseases. So it's just, I think it's close now. Um, I might know my doctor is trying to get me into a um research study for stem cells as well. So if I can get into that, that would be I would do that before I opted for surgery. I've always I've signed up to do a lot of studies, but they want people who are in remission. Well, I haven't been in remission for five, six years, so they don't they never take me. But I'm hoping this, I'm a little hopeful at this one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I've even thought about like going to like Mexico or Texas to do stem cell as well. They they've there's been some studies that people with um like leukemia who have Crohn's disease where they do stem cells to to help fight the leukemia, they've had good results in that, but of course it's not medically proven yet, so no insurance is gonna cover it. But I've thought about just like maybe I should just take out a loan for my 401k and just go do this. Like I've thought about it multiple times, but it's it's a it's scary, and it's I've heard it's very painful. Um, especially for people who do it on their joints because it's like a big long needle that they have to move around and keep stabbing you with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it doesn't sound great, but taking out money for your health, I can't see anything better to take your money out for.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I don't know. We'll we'll see what my doctor comes back with. He was just at a national conference, he's like a nerd, so he's one of those doctors you love you want to have. Perfect. He's like like you're a guts nerd.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So but he was just at a conf national conference meeting and he was gonna talk to a lot of people about my case. So he's been a really good advocate for me, uh, which is nice. Uh and that was another, like, I've when I was diagnosed, I the guy who diagnosed me worked for this clinic called Minnesota Gastroenterologist, and he's like, just come to us. Don't he knew that we were from Mora. He's like, what kind of clinic do you have there? I'm like, it's just a basic clinic, and he's like, just come to us. Well, because Mora didn't have a gastroenterologist. So it's I'm like, well, that makes sense. Like, let's go to let's go to the professionals that deal with only this. It's it'd be like um having Glen's Tyre work on a Maserati. You know, no not disparaging Glen's Tyre at all, but they're not they don't know how to they're not Maserati you know mechanics. So uh definitely yeah, so that's been it's been a challenge, but I've tried I've tried to stay positive, it's really hard with chronic pain.
SPEAKER_03:Keeping your stress down is important. Oh, it's impossible though.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's so hard, uh and I do feel bad, like because you always lash out at the ones that you love, and like I feel bad, like for my wife and kids, and anyone close to me. Like, I'm sure I've just been a bear at times. And like it takes them to call me out on it to be like, yeah, you're right, I've been I've been a jerk.
SPEAKER_03:But chronic pain like that, I can't imagine.
SPEAKER_00:It's a beast, and um, nobody really understands and it's people who have it don't want to talk about it typically because they you know a lot of the times when people ask how's it going, it's kind of it's like saying hi. It's kind of they're just wanting to hear good and then move on to the next thing. Like nobody most people truly don't care, and and it's not a bad thing.
SPEAKER_03:I I think but they might not know how to care. Yeah, that's that's probably a better 10 minutes. Like, yeah, how how do you show that you care about this?
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then the other thing is the people with chronic pain don't want other people to worry about them. You know, it's it it sounds really it's almost very self-centered that like they don't want people to worry about them when most people like if they're if they truly are asking, it's not just the people like in passing, they really do care and they want to know, but it's also like you don't want to worry them too. Like I know I I'm probably not the most open about it, especially with my parents, because my mom is a warrior, like she's just that's just who she is, she's a warrior, and it's just sometimes easier to just say, yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_03:But you're right, that's a form of love to let them worry about you, right?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And uh it's a little it's a little uh self-centered to not give them that. Um but I don't know. It's it's yeah, trying to do it. As a male, it's also hard because you're always supposed to be like the strong one. And it's it's really you're just not supposed to talk, like I don't know, you're not supposed to talk about your feelings. Like that was kind of always the thing, but it's okay to do that. So I've I've been really trying to work at that and really just open up about it, just be honest with the about it.
SPEAKER_03:So it's tough to do. So I suppose you've been through like a million different diets, trying this, trying that. Like, how has your relationship with control changed?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I would say I've had to really uh yeah, control can be different, difficult because when I'm not feeling good, I don't want to eat. But then when I do feel good, I like binge and then feel like crap afterwards. And then it's just it seems to be it used to be a continuous cycle of okay, I feel good today. Let's eat, eat, eat, because I don't know when I'm gonna be able to feel good enough to eat again. So I've started to control that more. Um just knowing that I have to eat. Like it sounds like a weird thing, but like forcing yourself to eat, whether it be a protein shake or a piece of like some chicken, like I try, you know, try to prioritize some better options. It's not always easy to do better options, especially when your uh your digestive system doesn't like it that because typically and another thing is with Crohn's disease is your body can be triggered by a lot of high fiber foods. So like you want to eat healthy, you you know, you think fruits and vegetables. Well, the like the rough texture of them can cause damage and put you into a flare-up as well. So it's it's fine. Like, I can't eat a lot of fiber, like even if it's cooked.
SPEAKER_03:I remember when I first learned that about you specifically, that like, yeah, the fruits and the vegetables aren't healthy for you.
SPEAKER_00:Like yeah, because that's what you're taught. Like you, everybody who loses weight, what's the first thing they do? They want to eat salads. I can't do that, you know. But it's also you can't just go like hardcore keto, like you have to have some sort of some of those other nutrients, and it's tough. It's a balancing, balancing act, and one thing could hurt me today and it won't tomorrow. So it's it's always trying to like find out.
SPEAKER_03:So you have to be so in tune with your body, but yet your body is gonna be different all the time. Oof.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've really learned to listen to my body. Like I know when I'm like gonna be hurting, or if I'm if I like if I know I'm tired, I just have to force myself to sleep. Um so it's it's a it's really hard, it's really challenging to listen to your body. You have to really want to listen to it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So if you get to the point where you have to have a colostomy bag, what is gonna be the hardest part to uh accept that?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's just knowing that it's forever. Oh and I think and but that's not a bad thing, but it's just it's gonna make my life different. And I think change is hard. Um change is really hard. But I sometimes sometimes change can be fun too. But this is just gonna be different. And I just hope that I'm almost hopeful that he tells me surgery just so because I don't sleep throughout the night. I'm up like three, four times a night. I just want to sleep.
SPEAKER_03:What keeps you up or wakes you up?
SPEAKER_00:I have to go to the bathroom.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay. So yeah, surgery instead of doing the stem cell stuff because it's just like prolonging it more. Right. Yeah, it'd almost just be easier and like a relief of okay, right.
SPEAKER_00:And like I would I think I've I can count on one hand how many times I slept through the night in the past four years.
SPEAKER_03:That is horrible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like you take like I it wasn't even that bad when my kids were babies and like screaming at night. It would so and it's I've learned that if I'm tired, I just need to nap. Like if I get if it's a few days in a row, like I just need to nap, which is good. Like yesterday I took a like an hour nap after work and I was re-energized. But yeah, it's hard, especially with a busy family, busy life. Yeah, I wish I could sleep. Trust me. I I'm envious of people who can.
SPEAKER_03:Right. I know how happy I am when I get a full night of sleep where I'm like, oh, I didn't wake up one time. That's a great feeling, and I hope that you get to feel that soon.
SPEAKER_00:I hope so too. It's uh I'm hoping we find out soon. And the recovery is not so it won't be bad, it'll be like six to eight weeks, and but we'll see. We'll see what my doctor comes with. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, I'm looking for looking forward to kind of I'll always have Crohn's disease, but I'm hoping it'll this will give me a couple five years of relief. Yeah, but that's enough about that. But and I will say that it's not all bad, it has made me a better person too. Um it's made me be more resilient and really like the little things in life.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's beautiful silver lining.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh you know, it's made me just kind of re-prioritize life a little bit too. You know, it's you know, if I feel good, I'm gonna enjoy it. Like, should I be doing other things? Like, should I be doing things around the house? Probably, but like in the summer, if I'm feeling good, I'm gonna go golf. Like, because it just brings me joy and it's peace and kind of can shut my brain off and forget about things for a little while. So yeah. Yeah, and I think another big thing is as soon as I was diagnosed, we were we were gonna talk about like alcohol as well. Uh as soon as I was diagnosed, I quit drinking. Um only for the reason of if I'm gonna be paying all this money and insurance for medications and these different medications. Um why would I throw alcohol on top of that and dehydrate my body and just do more damage to it? It was never I never had an issue with alcohol by any means.
SPEAKER_03:Like it was No, I've never seen you be the out of control, no sloppy drunk, or really even buzzed.
SPEAKER_00:I think yeah, very seldom. Uh, I had a good relationship with it. Uh, but I was just, you know what, I'm done. It's and I think I was one of the first ones in our friend group to not drink anymore. And it was weird. Uh a lot of people quit inviting me to stuff because I didn't drink, and they thought it was gonna be weird that I didn't drink, and it never was. Like, I never, I'm like, oh man, you guys are this is horrible because I'm sober and you guys are it didn't bother me. I just wanted to hang out with my friends, and even to this day, it's still like people look. I was at a work training and people are like, You're fine just hanging out with people drinking. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't bother me at all. Like, it doesn't no issue here. Still surprises people so much. Oh, I know. It's and it's I I think a lot of it is in the Midwest too.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because there's not as much to do here. We don't have the ocean or ocean stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So ingrained in everything. I mean, what is it? Wisconsin's the number one per capita. Yeah. And then Minnesota's pretty high up there too. It's just ingrained in everything.
SPEAKER_03:Because I used to not understand those people either. Like, how do you do an activity without drinking? What do you mean? Like everything revolved around it. If it was, if you were gonna do something that you couldn't drink, it was like, eh, do I really want to do something?
SPEAKER_00:Do I want to do that? Right. Um, so yeah, it's just it's just it was just something I chose, and I've you know, I I maybe have had a few drinks, or I think I've been drunk once since then. Uh, but that was long, long ago. Um, it's just something I I've just chosen to stop, and I think it's been a good choice. Um, it's not for everybody. That's it was just my choice to make, and I've I I think it's one of the best choices I have made for myself. Uh especially with the dehydration, like because that's a huge side effect of alcohol, it just absorbs any water you have, and I'm always fighting dehydration. Uh the main purpose of your large intestine is to absorb water.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:So when you don't have that, yeah, you're always dehydrated.
SPEAKER_03:Is there um a uh what do you use to dehyd to hydrate then? Is there um any electrolytes that you specifically like?
SPEAKER_00:Um pretty much any of them are good. I like uh I actually make my own now, like so you don't have to buy the expensive packets. I've like liquid IV is a lot of sugar, so I haven't had good good results with that. Elements are really good. Um but they're expensive.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. How do you make your own?
SPEAKER_00:I I found it on TikTok actually. Uh it's like just a salt. Celtic salt? Yep, Celtic sea salt. There's a something called no salt salt. It's like potat more mostly potassium, and then there's something else that you put into it. I can send it to you. It's I think it was like$30 on Amazon.
SPEAKER_03:Sweet.
SPEAKER_00:And you just mix it all together, put it in the jar or whatever you want it, and then just put a teaspoon in your drink, and I use like Mio flavoring with it.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Cause like salt water like is gross, it's terrible. You need some sort of flavor. So that's just what we do, and my kids like it.
SPEAKER_03:And that's great. Yeah, I'll just start making it for the crew guys, like just a big bucket, take your teaspoon every morning.
SPEAKER_00:Well, then like especially in the when it's like 90 degrees out and they're sweating non-stop, like yeah, guys, just take a little bit. And yeah, it's like we got like two big mason jars full of it for like 30 bucks. Whereas uh when the element packets is like a dollar seventy or something a piece. So not to be like super frugal, but it's like if I'm gonna use these every day, I might as well be a little more responsible about it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but yeah, super cool that you were like pioneer and quitting drinking. You're doing it before it was cool. Now it's becoming cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and like my my biggest thing with it at the time is I I never wanted to pressure anybody to do it. You know, I think I think people who struggled with it, I would be like, hey, I want you to back off a little bit, but I never wanted to like be preachy about it. Um that's not my it's just never not who I am. I'm not gonna like hit you over the head with it. But I think if I saw my friends were having issues or struggles with it, I would say something, but I never wanted to like sobriety's the way to go, rah.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, no, I never saw you like that. I mean, I think the first couple years it wasn't like this, it wasn't like this big announcement of I don't drink anymore, even so it was just like, oh yeah, no, Matt has I guess I haven't seen him drink for a while. Oh, it's been a year tour, blah blah blah. You know, like your personality didn't change or anything, because you were always that even keeled grown up. I'm gonna say later how like you've always been the grown-up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oldest child syndrome. Yep. Oldest child syndrome, we call it. We're my mom and I were just talking about this. I've always been the rule follower. Like we were at a I was just at a basketball game, and you know, there's always the home and visitor side, and like all the more people are on the home side. And I'm like, nope, I went over to the visitor side, and my mom's like, she couldn't see me on the video, like because everything is live streamed now after COVID. I'm like, yeah, I'm on the visitor side, like and she's like, You're such a rule follower. I'm like, Yep, oldest child syndrome.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Honey, do you have that Veda? You love rules, and that makes sense because I hate rules and I'm the youngest, and I literally can't stand them. If there's a rule, I will like do the opposite. If I'm um cooking, like I cannot follow the recipe because ew, rules, uh, you know, so I will go if I don't follow rules, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's and there's it's a thing, like it's a true thing.
SPEAKER_03:I suppose. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's hard.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah. At least I have a reason for being such a rule breaker.
SPEAKER_00:But is is Ed the rule follower?
SPEAKER_03:No. Is Ed?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh. Well, he is um the best, he's the pole shed god because he uh does everything very like, yeah, he does everything perfectly how he's supposed to. But does he follow other rules, society's rules? No, definitely.
SPEAKER_00:But it's not about society, it's just like whatever you feel is what you should do.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, whatever's in your head as a rule.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's it's I've and I've asked the oldest siblings a lot, like when I'm talking to them, like, so are you the rule follower?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they're always most of the time they're yes.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I love that. I love sibling psychology. That's my favorite.
SPEAKER_00:Well, especially like you and your siblings, especially with the age gap.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Right. Because I'm I'm kind of like starting over at the oldest too. I'm just, I don't know what I am.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's that's that's a good point because you are kind of the I would say your cousins are more like your brothers.
SPEAKER_03:My nephews, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, your nephews, yes, are more like your brothers.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because they were only three and a half years younger than me. Haley was four years younger than me. Yeah, so I'm kind of like just this weird in this weird spot. You're the only girl, the the youngest, but that huge age grab kind of because I think they say um if there's seven or eight years, it starts over, and there is eight years between Mike and I. Okay. So yeah, just in a weird spot. But then yeah, Devin being four years younger than me, we lived right next to each other. So he felt like the little brother, and I bullied him like he was my little brother. Therapy went to therapy for that because I felt bad. I was supposed to be the aunt that protected him, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, you're yeah, you were in this like weird little zone, but it worked out. But I think you have a good relationship, you guys always had a good relationship, and I'm like Isaac and Nick are quite a few years younger than Devin, but I I think you guys still all have a really good relationship like that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we do.
SPEAKER_00:But it's just kind of cool because sure there are all these generations, but you guys are all your your family's always been very tight-knit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, we get together for every birthday. Tomorrow we're getting together for like eight people's birthdays in January and February. Um, but my birthday is in April, and I'm the only one so far. So none of these babies coming in the family better think they can be born in April. Yeah, nobody can steal your April 7. My mom makes homemade pizza and ice cream cake, homemade ice cream cake. So everybody likes my birthday the best.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because it's like the tradition every year. So um, some years I do have to share with Jesus. Like my birthday's been on Easter, I think, three or four times. I'm like, okay, he gets every day. Can't I just have one day a year to myself? You know, but even though it's not his birthday. No, but it's a it's all about celebrating him. My mom always makes a cake on Easter for Jesus. I don't know. Anyways, no babies better be born in April.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. They can't steal your thunder.
SPEAKER_03:Right? So, what other mental and physical struggles have you been through in life?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I would say those have just been the biggest two, like the imposter syndrome, and now with like the struggling of chronic um chronic illness. And then that imposter syndrome, it's I know we all feel it. It's just I might be a little more aware of it. And I I it was really apparent at this I just talked about this training I was at. It was really in-depth, like four weeks of training, two weeks at a time. And I'm with like people who are really set in their careers, they're executives, they're like on track to be an executive, that kind of stuff. And here's like, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. You know, I I know I love this industry that I work in, uh, but I don't know, I don't know what I want to like where what the next step is, or even if there is a next step, or do I just stay where I'm at? And I remember sitting through it, and I'm just like, after the first week, we it was with 25 other people. So that people from all over the country, from Alaska to Florida, like and everywhere in between. Um, I just remember at the first that Friday night, we were all just kind of around each other, and they're like, How'd you feel? I'm like, imposter syndrome hit really hard. Like, what do you mean? I'm like, so then I explained, you know, like I don't just what I talked about. I don't know what I want to do. You guys all seem to have this like clear cut, like you know what you want to do in five years. And I've just never been that person, like I'm not that visionary type person. I'm always just okay, what's right in front of me? That's what I'm gonna worry on. I'm not worried about the steps or what's out in front of me, what I want to do, and the steps to get there. I'm just always it'll figure itself out, which is is it's probably I wish I could be that visionary person. That's kind of probably why I struggle with those types of people. Like, and I shouldn't say struggle, it's we might butt heads a little more.
SPEAKER_03:Um because you're living maybe more now.
SPEAKER_00:I'm living in the right now, what's affecting us now, where they're thinking, okay, if we do this, it's gonna have a different outcome in six years. And we need both people, and you need both people from all the teams, absolutely, and I wish I and it's always the you wish you were different than what you were. I wish I had more of that long-term road mapping or you know, writing their vision boards. Like, I'm I remember that was been like in high school we had to write a vision board in a class. I'm like, I want to have a job, like I don't know, like graduate school.
SPEAKER_03:Like there's never that I want to no, I don't I don't know what example I've I could have had in high school, but but maybe the people who are doing vision boards and they can see that easily should do more now boards. Like, what do I want right now?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, absolutely, and I agree, and I think that's why those people probably struggle with people who are in the now people, and so it's something I've been trying to work with.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, because I'm very visionary and I'm very like in the clouds and not really here in the moment. Like people say things like when I have poor manners with stuff, and I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm just like I yeah, I don't remember to push my chair in when I leave the table because I'm just not really here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're thinking about okay, I have to go do this, this, and this. Yeah, you're not thinking, well, if I push my chair in, then I can go to step two.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And maybe some of that is we're thinking, I'm not thinking about the people around me as much as I'm thinking about like other things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. And maybe that I wonder if I'll have to research this, but I wonder if that kind of comes with the rule follower uh that'd be interesting, that's mental related. I'll have to I'll have to do some research on that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, see why they're correlated.
SPEAKER_00:I bet there's some sort of correlation, but I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so anyways, back to this training, and I remember just sitting sitting there and just talking, like listen to everybody talk, because that's my other thing. I like to listen to people talk. That's why this was like really hard for me. I'm I have to be the one doing most of the talking, and that's that's tough for me. Uh I'm not the person who likes to like ramble on. It's always I'll give my answer and then shut up and listen. Or read the room after what I said, which I'm very observant. I think you know that about me. I I can see things like I pick up on things really fast, which I don't know. It bugs me at times. I wish I could just shut my brain off uh and just live in the now. Uh so, anyways, we're we're having this discussion and I I let most of the people talk, and then somebody, some this my friend Keith, who great person, like I'm so glad he's in my life. Uh I'm actually gonna share this with him afterwards because he doesn't know I'm gonna say any of this, but he goes, Matt, if people didn't think that you deserve to be here, you wouldn't be here. And that was that was like a good kick, kick to the gut, like, oh yeah, like you do deserve to be here. You do and like I did add a lot to the conversations, and I do have a unique work experience, I do know have a lot of industry knowledge, so it's like you're right, I do deserve to be here, but I still it still doesn't help me with I don't know what I'm what I want to do with it with that knowledge. So but getting over that part is the first part to get it's huge, it's huge, and like that was it was it was what I needed to hear, and like there's those people that come in your life and say things like that that you don't it's stuff you never want to hear because you already know it, but you're just turn your blind eye to it. But it's really important to hear it and acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_03:And I wish we all had leaders like that that were telling us that more often because yeah, you don't want to be needy and like you know, searching for those kind of compliments or those kind of things, but like I think it's human nature to need it. And the people that struggle, the amount of people that are struggling with imposter syndrome is crazy, and it wasn't even a word that we realized until what a few years ago, and now all of a sudden it's like so relieving to know that other people feel that way too.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. And you know, we had a couple really good speakers at this training, and it was all industry professionals and people who have started at the bottom, gone to the top, like literally. Um, and you know, a lot of people said what I heard over and over again was the growth mindset. Um, and you just want, and the growth mindset is just you always want to be growing. It doesn't matter if it could be learning more, it could be um trying to be a better leader, it could be trying to eat better, it could be trying to move more, just continue to grow. And he said, You're here because people, somebody believes in you and that to help you grow. Uh, I did another training where it was like a leadership training, and at the end they gave you a rubber band like on your graduation, like like cheesy diploma that you know they printed off and typed your name on, whatever. But it was a big message was stretch your rubber band. You know, if when you learn something, your rubber band stretches. Well, with a rubber band, it never goes back to its full form, original form. It always is gonna be a little bit it's gonna grow each time that you add to it.
SPEAKER_03:I love that.
SPEAKER_00:So it it's it's a little cheesy, but it's it's a good representation. Yeah, like I think a lot of us need those like mental or those like physical representations to help us. So, yes, I'm very appreciative of my my friend Keith that helped me with that. And you know, we just talked on the phone before Christmas and just kind of caught up. And he was just like, I I can go to the negative zone pretty quick. You know, it's I think we all can going negative is easy to have a positive outlook is hard. And he could tell I was a little negative. He goes, growth mindset, and then I just like flipped. So it's something I have to tell myself, uh, probably on a daily daily, it's it's just like growth, and okay, let's let's move forward. So, Keith, I'm gonna send this to you. You're awesome. Love the guy, and it's somebody that I was a complete stranger in August, you know, and that impacted your life. Yeah, and I met some really awesome people at it. Like, that's just one conversation that really affected me. These people were great, like honestly, some of the best people I've ever met in my life. And it's we were complete strangers, and you spend four weeks with them, and like we did everything. Like, we were in Virginia, we went to Washington, DC, saw the monuments, and went to a baseball game, you know, we just did all these different things. We went on a a wine and brewery tour, like just did a lot of cool things and you know, go to dinner and lunch every day with them and just spend a lot of time together. So yeah, a lot of lot of good relationships that I'll have forever.
SPEAKER_03:So you had said you conquered um, you have conquered that. So do you uh still go there sometimes and then you just tell yourself no growth mindset, like yeah, it's easy to go back into that um into that thinking.
SPEAKER_00:Like I said, it's easy to go negative and it's easy to fall back on old habits. Like, you know, the saying is old habits are hard to break. And that's that's one of mine is um, you know, I don't belong here, I don't know that, or yeah, when are they gonna figure out? Yeah, when are they gonna figure out that's you know, the I can't do that, or that's above me, or that's somebody else's responsibility.
SPEAKER_03:No, like they're gonna realize that my personality sucks, right?
SPEAKER_00:Or whatever, whatever it is, and it's just like no, just growth, like try. And like failure's hard, but we never truly fail unless you allow yourself to.
SPEAKER_03:Um Yeah, I told Devin that not that long ago. I'm like, I don't feel like I failed at anything because if it doesn't work out, it just feels like, well, I still did it and learned something from it. And you pivot. But he said, like, well, there's there's bad in that too, because if you feel like you never failed, then you um I don't know what he was saying. But if it's but it all depends on your definition. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It all depends on your definition of failure, too. Um failure could be you did a task wrong. But now you know not to do that task that way. Yeah, so you actually grew. So you actually grew. Or failure to some people could be oh, you got fired from your job. Or it could be, oh, you got in trouble with a law. Like it all there's different levels to it, and if you don't learn from it, then you're just gonna keep doing it. And that's that's something I've had to really kind of take a deep dive into. And sometimes it's okay to not know the answer. I like to know the answer to everything, and it's impossible to do so. Like, especially with my work. Like, I like to know the answers to things, I like to have to kind of be the one to like lead the charge and finding the answer, having the answer, knowing what to do. And we've gotten roped up into a lot of new things, and it's I don't know the answer, and that's hard.
SPEAKER_03:Well, Todd just told me yesterday that um certainty takes out surprise and it limits you. So I was like, Yeah, I don't want to be certain about things, I want to be uncertain so that there's that much room for growth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's that's a really good analogy. Because I I'm the type of person that hates surprises. So that's why.
SPEAKER_03:But then you're limited.
SPEAKER_00:Then you're limited, 100%. And yeah, that's a really good. I really like that.
SPEAKER_03:But it's tough for the rule followers. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Uh thank you for that confirmation bias there. Um yeah, it's it's hard. It's it's definitely hard, but it's definitely something that's really, and that's just been really recent. You know, that was August that we I had that conversation. It's only end of January now. So it's been something that it's I'm not still not great at it, but it's something that I have to do every day.
SPEAKER_03:Our friend Jesse was over last night, and I told them um that you're coming on and we're gonna talk about imposter syndrome, and he had never heard of it. Okay. So I explained it to him, and he doesn't feel it at work at all, which is awesome. I love that for him. But he brought up some other things in his life that he felt it in, and I've always just equated it with work, so it was interesting to hear that. And like, so now I am excited to uh see other areas of my life that I probably do feel it that have just never brought been brought to my attention.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's it's I think it's just a a phrase to for like another phrase for uncertainty, or you could call it anxiety, you could call it angst, you could call it anything. Um, it's just probably what best defines how I've how I've felt.
SPEAKER_03:But why has imposter syndrome that feeling that obviously so many of us have, why has it evolved into us still at this point? Like, what is it helpful for? Like, if it wasn't a flaw, what would it be protecting?
SPEAKER_00:What would it be protecting? I think it'd be protecting putting yourself out there and trying new things, which our ego doesn't want us to do.
SPEAKER_03:It wants to keep us safe. That's its whole goal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it wants you to it wants you to your ego wants you to stay the same.
SPEAKER_03:So, yes, fight it, fight the evolution and know that that is our brains lying to us. Because if we get big and you put yourself out there, that's scarier, more people see you. Absolutely so like staying small in your job is what our brains want.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:But we have to love that part of our brains because it is just trying to protect us, it's not trying to hurt us, right?
SPEAKER_00:And that's why I think there's been this huge movement of I know you're a big fan of this of do the hard thing. It doesn't some people that could be just going outside that day, or it's some, you know, some people all the way up to doing an ultra marathon like your last episode that I just watched. Um, you know, the hard thing could be different for all of us, and I think it's you know, kind of a newer adage of just putting one foot in front of the other or anything along those lines. And I I think we just gotta keep putting ourselves out there and yeah, trying new things and that could be easy, it could be hard.
SPEAKER_03:And I think not comparing to other people, because the person at the cubicle next to you, it's like, well, they're really good at this. Well, figure out what your strengths are, which I've talked about how much I love personality tests. I love figuring out what my strengths are. And from all the studies that I've read, you're supposed to just focus on your strengths and excel those. Don't worry about the things that you're bad at. Some people think, oh, I need to like even everything out and be a little bit good at everything. Like, no, that isn't why we were given different strengths. Find your strength, enhance it, appreciate it, love it, and that is your gift to the world.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then and then it's also something with that as I'll push back against a little bit. You want to grow your strengths, but you also want to raise the floor, and that'll help raise the floor on your weaknesses. You know, it's and it's not you might not realize it, but you know, say you're a natural leader and you might not listen, or you maybe listening is your your weakness. Yeah. But you know, if if you want to continue to grow as a leader, you have to listen more.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:So that's just gonna raise the floor on those other things.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. 100%. When I was like, I'm gonna start podcasting, it's like because I love to talk, but like I became such a better listener along that journey, and now I love listening more than I love talking. So you can figure out different strengths, right?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. No, that's huge. Yeah, because you've always been. I mean, this isn't a negative comment, but you've you've always talked a lot.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, that's just yep. That's that's just been Beth.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so that's been it's a growth to listen now.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, because choosing to uh um enhance that talking by podcasting now has because of that, it's grown this other thing of listening. It's just all connected, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right, absolutely. And I like I noticed a change. I remember this. We had a lot like a really long conversation at Kill's cabin, like two years ago. And I'm like, something changed. And like it wasn't a it wasn't a bad comment thing, but I'm like, Beth is she you were like asking more questions in your and I I remember you were that's when you really started like your sobriety journey.
SPEAKER_03:That's when that was after my full year. Yep. So I was drinking a couple times a month, but yeah, I remember even going to that party and just being like, this is different because I'm not gonna be drinking and like you know, running all over the place, like trying to get attention. Not that I ever like consciously in my head thought, oh, I'm gonna try and get attention, but I obviously loved attention.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Um, because I was loud and trying to be funny or whatever, annoying. Um, but yeah, it's like, okay, so when I show up to this party now, what do I do? How do I act? Like, well, guess what? You get to listen to people and you get to hear them and you get to like get to know them on this deeper level than you never got to before.
SPEAKER_00:That's why parties are still fun. Oh, absolutely. We had like probably one of the best conversations we've ever had at that. And it was probably about like nothing. Yeah, you know, but it was just I was like, okay, I think like Yeah, we both felt heard and yeah, we both both heard. We both ask good questions, both have good conversation. And that was about two years ago, like two and a half years ago. So yeah, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, that was yeah, that was that's when I like noticed it.
SPEAKER_03:So awesome. I love that. Okay, so growth mindset. Um, was there a point where you realized you didn't take things personally anymore or as personally?
SPEAKER_00:Uh no, because I still think I do. Uh but I have to like remind myself like not every comment is an attack, or like somebody pointing out like a change, like or hey, you could do this better. It's not a personal attack. That's how I viewed it forever. And my wife and kids probably still think I do. Like, it's just and I hate that. I do, like, I just hate it about myself. Um, but it's something I've tried to be better about. Like, they took the initiative to tell me this that I could do this better. They just they're trying to get me to be better. So I really need to take that into more thought. Or a coworker says, like, hey, this could have been done a little better. Like, it's not an attack saying you did it wrong, you still did most of it right, or you still reacted to your children mostly right, but it was just like one little tweak would have just helped them, or one of those things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, something that I took personally just last week at a fair board meeting, I told this guy the story that I thought he was really gonna like, and he kind of just like shook his head and looked away. And I was taking it really personally. Like, I went home just like sad, like, why didn't he like my story? And blah blah blah. But then I like consciously let it go. I was like, there's probably other things on his mind, like it's really not about you. And like an hour later, I wasn't thinking about it, but it hit me that I told him that story before.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_03:So isn't that so funny? I could have like spent the rest of my life like thinking, oh, he didn't care about my story. Well, like, dumb. It was me the whole time. It reminds me of like that story on the airplane. There's this lady who was so mad because this guy kept eating her Fritos. And like, you know, why does he keep eating the snack, my snacks? Like, that's gross. I don't know him. And then she found her bag later, realized that bag was never hers, it was his. She was eating his.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, funny.
SPEAKER_03:You know, so it's like perspective and letting go of that judgment about yourself and other people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and most times it's not even judgment on their portion, it's just a basic conversation and just taking it. And they probably said it's super respectful. And it's just it's hard to hear feedback. Like feedback is hard. It's hard to give feedback, it's really hard to accept feedback.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, if you're already expecting it to go a certain way, especially you're gonna hear it in the tone that you expect. Right. The brain is only filtering out what it knows how to filter. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And we always like hyper focus on like the weirdest stuff. Like I know, I know.
SPEAKER_03:It's so funny.
SPEAKER_00:Our brains are weird, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:They are. Um growth mindset can mean learning that we don't that we're not always right, also, um, and that we don't have to be good at something new right away. Do you have any examples of or do you feel like you've shifted in this age, turning 40, to you don't have to be right as often or good at something right away?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would say the being or not knowing everything, like that's been a real big change. Uh especially as the technology has changed, like AI, and I, you know, there's so much more that we can do with what we have. And I just need like not knowing like I don't know how to do a lot of this stuff yet, and that's okay. Um, I think uh it's easier for me to accept that and then like slowly learn it. I don't want to do like especially like AI, AI is kind of scary. Um, it can do a lot of cool things, but it's also trusting it, and the fact that these AI models can learn you and make recommendations based on you, and granted it's already been happening with algorithms on Google, like they know what you're gonna search and they're gonna cater things to you, but now there's something else that's doing it, and it's really hard. Um, just another algorithm to get stuck in. Um but I really want to. Learn it to help automate a lot of things that like a lot of mundane tasks, especially like reporting and like data-driven stuff. Like just have to figure out how it fits into my day-to-day stuff. But that's it's scary and it's here. Um, you know, I don't I do believe that AI is going to remove some jobs. I truly do. It's impossible that it's not. But it's also going to really more put the separator between those that know how to utilize it and those that don't. Like if if kids don't know how to utilize it or adults don't know how to utilize it, you're gonna get left behind. Um you're just gonna be that much more productive or that much better with your time. Um and let's be real, we've been using AI AI has been a thing since the 70s.
SPEAKER_03:Like yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's like the first like uh internal like dialing an extension, calling a new one eight hundred number and like or calling a company and calling an extension, that was AI. Okay, you know, so it's it's it's been around forever. Yeah, it's just now it's it's kind of like the hot button subject, and you know, everybody sees these data centers for it, and um you know, Chat GPT really kind of put it on the landmark, but Microsoft's been using it for years. Like, I don't remember if you do you remember like Clippy. It was like, anyways, it was like this like little paper clip that would pop up and be like, Oh, I see you're doing this, let me help you with animals.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, yeah, that was an AI.
SPEAKER_00:Like, and it everyone thought he was super annoying because like just get off, like let me type my paper or whatever it was. But yeah, yeah, just just learning it and harnessing it.
SPEAKER_03:Um Yeah, I mean, I think if it can use this to think more strategically, if it we can think of it as enhancing us, not replacing us. Um, I read in a book the other day the problem isn't not enough info, it's that there's too much. So filtering out the noise bias and pinpointing what's relevant is key. So I think that's what it can help with, so that we're not wasting our time. And in my head, I like to think it's gonna help us not waste so much time so that we can do the things that we love to do more, be out in nature, be with our family.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I love that statement because that's something I've I've been really kind of harnessing on is there's too much information out there. There's just too much, like there's too much news, there's too much like social media, like social media is not a bad thing. I I do not believe it's a bad thing, but too much of it is a bad thing. And we're not meant to have access to everything, our brain just can't handle it. And I think that's it's a real problem.
SPEAKER_03:Too much water is bad, too much heat, too much cold, all the elements. Like, there's nothing that too much of something isn't bad.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, and being naive is like I sometimes go through streaks where I don't know what's going on with current events, and I like to just say I like to live in I like to be naive about some things. And it's just because if there's too much going on, I just don't want to know about it.
SPEAKER_03:You just need to listen to yourself and when you're overstimulated, yeah. I mean, yes, be active in the current events, in politics, all that. It um would be a waste of your humanity not to be, but you you know what is best for you, and that might be drastically different than the person sitting next to you.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And you know, I like I we all know those people who are always know what's going on with like world politics or US politics and stuff, and I just can't do it. Like it's maybe that's that just worrying about what's in front of me type mentality that I have, but it's like I'm more worried about what's going on in Mora, what's going on in Canaba County, what's going on in our surrounding areas, like who's what's really affecting us?
SPEAKER_03:What can you really help here? Because if you're listening to stuff that you aren't able to do anything about, and then it's just poisoning your body and making you sick and you can't get out of bed, then how is that helpful for anybody? God didn't send you here to be miserable. Right now, if you're gonna listen and you're gonna go out there and march or you're gonna do something, then when you get back, shut it off again.
SPEAKER_00:Go be active, but right, you can't let it be everything. Like we all have things that we're very passionate about, but it can't be everything we're passionate about. Like maybe that's it's kind of like ADHD a little bit, but I think it's okay to jump between things, and I'm really passionate about this today, but I also know that I'm passionate about this, so I can be passionate about this today.
SPEAKER_03:It's yeah, and you have the right to change your mind every single day.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And I think if you're not changing your mind on things, boring well, and you're not growing. Yeah, yeah, it all comes back to growing. Um, if I thought the same way I thought 20 years ago, I would be a little embarrassed. You know, I'll can like I don't even want to know what I'd be like.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I I don't want to be, and that's what when like somebody said I saw him after like 10 years, they're like, You've changed a lot. I'm like, thank you. Yeah, you know, like some people think that that could be like a derogatory thing, and I I view it as a compliment. Like, I don't want to be the same person I was yesterday. You know, that's that that would be I would think that's this might seem a little extreme, but maybe a wasted life, you know, or a waste of my efforts or a waste of my energy to be the same person. I want to be the same person with a lot of things, but I think your views are meant to be changed.
SPEAKER_03:When you think of all the people it took to get you here, all of your ancestors and all the changes that they had to go through to not want to change, to not want to strive to be better and different. Like, is that a disservice to them?
SPEAKER_00:Kind of. Absolutely. I think so. But I'm also not going to debate people about it either. Like, if I have a different opinion about it, I'm gonna listen to them, I'm gonna give my opinion on it, but I'm not gonna get in an argument about it. Like I can't have no urge to I I I've always hated arguing. Always hated it. Like Katie hated it when we first started dating because she liked to argue because she had more siblings, like closer age, and you know, siblings like to argue, and I just want to argue with her. And I think it kind of like she's like, I just want to argue. Like, I'm not gonna argue.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like my brother Steve. Like, he's like, if you don't argue with me, uh like we have nothing to talk about. Like, he wants every conversation to be an argument. Like, that's great. I love that about him. I love watching him debate, but I'm not into it. Yeah, I'm not into it.
SPEAKER_00:Then that's I could totally see like I don't know your brother Steve very well, but it I could just see him wanting to debate people.
SPEAKER_03:He's like, How am I supposed to learn anything if you won't disagree with me? That's why I always joke that he likes Katie uh Ryan better than me at work because I'm like a yes person, like everything that he says, I'm like, yes, let's do it. Yes, great idea. Because and I'm not sucking up, I just literally do agree. But Katie's like, that's stupid. Why would we do that? You know?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And so he appreciates the conversations with her more.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, and and I I will like if like something like that, I will voice my opinion, but ultimately, like, if somebody wants to do something, they're gonna do it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And like, oh my gosh, right. And I'm all about doing what you want to do. Like, this is your life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is your life. I'll give you my a way in, but I'm not gonna try to change your mind, or I'm not gonna try to get you to do something you don't want to do. Yeah, it's just not a good use of my bandwidth.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, some people want to do that, they want to like change the world and change get people to think the way they do, and um, it would be a really boring and simplistic world if we all thought the way, the same way, or uh didn't want to think differently.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so right, the people on Facebook that are saying, like, oh, being silent is just as bad. Like, I understand exactly what you're saying, but um you now are judging me for who I am, and that hurts. And you know, just how about just start with stopping judging people? Right, because that is the problem. When you're pointing fingers, that is the problem.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And I think I think as we get older, we realize that us weighing in on these topics is only going to further divide things.
SPEAKER_03:And that's what I think they want. I think that both um sides of the political party are ran by somebody up here, yeah, one person or one group, like making the divides happen because who's making the money?
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't even have to be politics. Yeah, it could be whatever subject. Um I always joke that I'm in the middle of everything. Yeah, like I don't have extreme feel I do have extreme feelings, but yeah, most of the times I'm in the middle.
SPEAKER_03:I'm so good at seeing both sides. Yes. Sorry, I can't help that.
SPEAKER_00:And you feel do you feel like you're getting punched from both sides? Yes, yes, all the time. All the time, and it's really hard. Um, I grew up like not taught like we talked about politics and stuff, but like my dad was a business owner, my mom was a teacher. Like, my mom is a teacher, she didn't she taught, like, she didn't want to give her views to her students, she wanted her students to view her own get their own opinions. My dad didn't want to voice his concerns because then he's gonna piss off 50% of the people. So I just always have kind of done that too, and uh I saw the benefit of it. I wish I could be more like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is my opinion, but I know it's gonna have ripples that I just don't want to deal with.
SPEAKER_03:And like you said, the divide I think is the worst part, and that's how that's how they win is by making us think absolutely that we are too different from each other when we're really the same. We are really just one species, all just trying to do our best.
SPEAKER_00:Similarities are way closer than people realize. Yes, it doesn't matter if it's Republican, Democrat, uh, vegan, carnivore, uh anything, we're closer than we realize. Like, and it's unfortunate. And I think it's gotten really bad since COVID.
SPEAKER_03:Um because people want to be a part of a team and a tribe, and so they're picking their tribe and then they're sticking with it no matter what information comes out. They're like, this is my side, because every like I read a book about tribes, and I'm sorry all the time on here, I'm so bad about knowing what book I'm talking about. But when we spent so long living in tribes and an outsider would come in, you know, I mean, we are still living that way. And uh, it's hard, it's gonna be really hard to break out of that.
SPEAKER_00:And especially, I know I've used this term before, but confirmation bias. It's easy to look for confirmation. We're that's what's hard about the internet. It's so easy to find what we want. And it you can get different results by typing in like two different words into Google. Yeah, you can find your what you want to see versus what you don't want to see by changing like one or two words.
SPEAKER_03:Or you and I can Google the exact same thing, but different things are gonna show up because it knows what we want to hear and it wants us to keep coming on. It's not gonna tell us what we don't want to hear because then next time we want to Google something, we're not gonna Google it.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And yeah, and this was something that I like one of the bad things about the internet is that it gave everyone a voice. Like, you know, it's it's gave it's given us an anonymous voice where we can say hateful, horrible things, and there's no repercussions. Like before then, if you were say you were at a party and you said some of the things that people say online, like you would get hit. Like there would be violent, there'd be repercussions, or they would throw you out, or there'd be discourse, and now it's just like you can say it.
SPEAKER_03:You can bully, you can get away with bullying, and uh especially to like the celebrities or anybody that puts themselves out there the way that they get bullied. Oh my god, it's crazy. Who are these people behind these screens saying these things?
SPEAKER_00:They're I'm trying to say it nicely. They're they're people who are lost, you know, they don't have a lack, they have a lack of purpose, they have a lack of wanting to learn.
SPEAKER_03:So then they're fighting so hard they're tooth-inclined to fit into this tribe that they believe that they're in.
SPEAKER_00:But it's it's but it's not coming any there's no good coming out of it. And it's I I feel bad for them. Like, I get why they're doing it, and it's but I just feel bad for them. It's like, just go outside. Like, I use the phrase touch grass. Yeah, like just go outside, touch some grass, go on a walk, log off for a while. I love that. I need I need to take that advice sometimes too. Like, especially with what's going on recently in our state. It's just I've just had to like just log off. Like, granted, there's no way I can go touch grass unless I want to shovel a lot, but just going outside or touch a tree. Yeah, touch a tree, pick up a book, pet my dogs, hang out with my kids, you know, that kind of stuff. So continue continuing to grow.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:All right.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm glad that we uh got that stuff out and talked about that. But um, okay, the future you said you wanted to talk about.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, and I think it's more the fear of the future. Like, what what does it bring? And that's something I've really had to do, like a lot of deep diving. Uh it deep dives is hard for me, like really, like that's soul searching. Um, you know, especially as going into the next chapter of my life, which is you know, not having kids in the house. And like we're only Lily's a freshman, Addy's a sophomore, Emma's in college. It's like we're not that far from uh being empty nesters. And so much of my identity has been my children, like raising children, raising these little humans, uh, who I love. I love doing it. It's the most rewarding thing I've ever done. But after that, it's like, now what? Like, yeah, it's it it's a little self, it's a little selfish to think about it. Um because I've been really selfless with them. You know, I've I've tried to do everything for them to help benefit them, and now it's so it's hard to be selfish. Absolutely, it's really hard.
SPEAKER_03:You have to figure it out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I have to figure it out. And uh like this is such a stupid example, but it's a good one. Like when like I'm uh I I like to consider myself a good gift giver. Like I I know people It's your love language, yeah. Absolutely. I know what would make them happy, yeah. But it's like when somebody asks me what I want, like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, like if I want it, I'll buy it. Or yeah, um, I want to see you happy, like that'll make me happy, like that kind of stuff, and it drives people nuts, like it drives my family crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Because that is selfish, you have to let people it 100% is selfish.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, but it's it's something I'm trying to work on is that future thinking, and you know, Katie, like she's in school again, I'm in school to grow, like to help, and it's not then what? You know, it's it's I'm in school, that's what I'm worried about now. It's not what is the school potentially, what other avenues could it open, or that kind of stuff. So that's really what I've it's been hard to think about. It's it's a struggle for me, but and I'm not like saying I'm trying to move on from my career, but what other avenues are there if there is something? Um and not that I'm trying to move out of the area or out of the state, but if something, if there's an opportunity, why not take it?
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's great. I think both of you are gonna be able to live in the moment and when opportunities come on and you're like, that's my path, all right. Right, exactly. We'll do it, we'll do whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. That's great. That's just then that's a that's a real struggle for me. Um, those those changing of uh like seasons of our lives. It's it's it's a struggle, like going from even independence to being in a relationship to being married to then with children, you know, there's there's a lot of change there. You because at young we are very selfish, and then you have to you have to change that mentality, and it's tough to go back. And granted, like my kids, like once they're out of the house, they're not just gonna be gone out of my life, but you know, I'm not gonna have to worry about, well, are you eating like what are you having for dinner today? Like, they're gonna have to figure some of that stuff out on their own, just like I did. You know, they're not gonna be as dependent on me, which is it's it's hard.
SPEAKER_03:That's the toughest part for me of being a parent was after James graduated because like I can't control what he does anymore. I have to let him make his mistakes and and trust him, and so that's tough because before it's like, no, you can't do that, no, you can't spend money on that, you're not allowed. And I was like, okay, yeah, I can't tell you what to do.
SPEAKER_00:I can give you advice, yeah. And you can take that advice and do what you want with it. And and I have to remind myself, like, I'm giving advice because I've failed, you know, and I've just learned from my failures. But sometimes you have to just fail on your own and 100%.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you it's so tough.
SPEAKER_00:And our parents told us the same stuff, like they did the same things and we didn't listen to them either. And we know better. Like we're invincible at 20. And but yeah, it's it's tough. It's it's really hard thinking of the future for me. I know for some it's easy, but that's just it's a real struggle. And like, what am I gonna do when I don't have kids' stuff, kids' activities, or have to worry about what they're doing, or so yeah, that's a real struggle for me. But it's something we're gonna have to I'm gonna have to really work at. And it's for me to figure out, it's not for any one other person to figure out.
SPEAKER_03:But I think it'll be more fun than you could.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. It'll be a it I'm really looking forward to it. Um it's another growth opportunity for myself and for our family. So it'll be it's really fun.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's scary at the same time. The future's scary.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think uh I think a lot of people are still stuck in the scary past for them. But for me, I think the future's scarier than the past.
SPEAKER_03:You told me once that you had a life goal of being useful.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. That's I don't really remember saying that, but that definitely sounds something that I that I would say. Um and I think that's more the thought of like how do I want to say this? I w I don't want my life to not improve others, or uh, and it's not like some egotistical thing, but like I want I want to like help make people feel better about themselves, or I want people to feel better that they've I've been been in their life, or a process to improve somewhere, or you know, I just want and it's probably super egotistical of myself.
SPEAKER_03:No, I love that you say that because I was gonna say that I've always wanted to help people too, and I finally read something maybe six months ago that said not everybody wants to help people. So if you want to help people, lean into that.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So it's not because I question it too, like, well, why do I think oh I can help people? But if you if God has given you the overwhelming feeling to and to be useful, then it's okay. Yeah, it's not you thinking that you're better than them.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, gosh, no. It's it's just wanting to leave my mark on the world. Um, I wanted to be a better place than when I entered. Um, and maybe that's why it, you know, like I was driven to like be on the school board, that kind of stuff, or um, you know, volunteer with kids stuff.
SPEAKER_03:And well, yeah, also you are so good at being there for everybody. What's the pros and cons to that?
SPEAKER_00:Uh the pros are like it's it's selfish, but it feels good being there for people. Like people, I know that like people know that if they come to me, I can be there for them. Like, because it's hard asking for help.
SPEAKER_03:If you're able to be a steady force for somebody, if that's something you're good at, then be it.
SPEAKER_00:Right, you know, exactly. But I would say at the same point, it's like a negative, it's also a negative, like, what am I not doing for myself by helping them or being there for them?
SPEAKER_03:Boundaries, boundaries, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:And I think, you know, most of the people in my life have really good boundaries. You know, I've I've kind of ridded my this is strong, but like I don't if people if I felt used by people, I'm not going to allow them to keep using me. Like, but if if I feel that it's truly reciprocated and appreciated, and it doesn't even have to be reciprocated, just appreciated, then I'm always gonna be there for those people, and like I'll always let those people in. Like, my people are my people.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because you've said that you assume the worst in people until they prove you right, but then once you're there, you'll take a bullet for them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Um and I I hate that I assume the worst of people, like I just hate it.
SPEAKER_03:It's has it always been that way though?
SPEAKER_00:100%. But that's because it's easy to be negative, like it's easy to to look for the negatives in people or the negative. Safety mechanism. Absolutely, 100%. But it's also like it's also kind of like, okay, well, if I see some things like some red flags, I'm just I'm just not gonna invest in that. I'm not gonna be mean to them by any means, but I'm not going to I'm not gonna give them 100% math.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And see, this is a good thing because the the spectrum is always so funny because I'm the type of person on the way other side of the spectrum where I'm like, how. Hi, what's your name? Okay, let's be best friends. Do you want all of my money and all of my space and time and energy? You know what I mean? So, like, I didn't get that defense mechanism, and that has been hard in my life as well. So Right.
SPEAKER_00:And that's maybe just because like I saw it as a kid, like, you know, friends, people that I thought were friends did something to hurt me, or um it probably stems from that. And I don't have any examples, but you know, we always like kids do weird things that hurt others, and it's it's nothing intentional because you're so observant, you're like noticing that.
SPEAKER_03:We're being not really noticing that it kind of blows over my head, and I'm up in the clouds, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, and like I'll notice things, and I don't like my wife is kind of the same way as you, or she she sees the best in people, and uh I don't like to like point out things that I see because it's like I don't want to like ruin their perception of people, or and not that it's a negative perception, but it could just be something that I notice that like it's like they should be aware of that, yeah. And I don't I don't ever want to be that I don't want to like point out people's things that I see or like red flags or potential things that could become an issue in the future, but yeah, like once you're like once I like I love you or one of those things, like you're just in, like I'm gonna have your back for forever, and um that's something I've tried to be better about too is like telling my friends I love them, like and it's a little weird for like guys, but it's becoming that so weird, yeah. I know it's it's changed in the past couple years, but like I definitely tell my guy friends I love them. That's good, and that's fine, yeah. And like just my friends I've had forever. I'll tell them I love them. It's fine. Sometimes I need to hear it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and like if you ever like not like felt good after somebody says I love you.
SPEAKER_03:No, and my family, we don't get off the phone without saying it. And I talk to everybody in my family a couple times a day because of work. So Chad Oaker sits next to me at work and he brought it up a couple weeks ago. He's like, I love you is are really getting kind of old because it doesn't mean as much because you say it so much. I'm like, Chad, every time I say that because he doesn't do that. He's like, I'm saying it less to my kids now because you say it so much. I'm like, well, okay, I'll start calling your kids every day and telling them I love them. Call Max and call them I love them. Yeah, yes, start with Max, especially. I should call him and tell them I love him. Yeah. Or every time he uh at golf when he hits a shot and tell them God, I love you, Max.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, he's one of my he's one of my favorite people. Right? Him and I, oh yeah, we we have a lot of good laughs together.
SPEAKER_03:You've also said that you don't want to be a bummer and that you're working on letting people in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think a lot of that stems from probably the chronic illness and like the chronic pain. Like that's why it's like hard to talk about it. Yeah. Because you don't want to be like bringing up negative things like and kind of killing a vibe or that EOR vibe. Yeah, that EOR vibe. Um, nobody wants to do that, and nobody like nobody they do want to hear it, they don't want to think that everything is good all the time because everybody knows that's impossible. But I think it's more being open about it, about like how I am feeling, or whether that be about a situation or just my health. Like, I've definitely been more open about my health in the past few years than I ever have been. It always been fine, you know. It's it's fine. Because I think fine is probably the biggest defense mechanism we have. Because it's never really fine. Like, if we're saying it's fine, it's not.
SPEAKER_03:What keeps popping up in my like Facebook feed is like these classes on learning how to say things, like, don't say that average thing. Don't say, How was your weekend? They're like, never say that again. Like, say something like, What's been the best part of your day so far today? Or instead of saying I'm fine, just being like, Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't sleep last night well because of my Crohn's, but otherwise, you know, I think saying it, but then saying something positive, maybe, and then the person has a chance to respond with either one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I agree. And and I think there's also a fine line of like compliment sandwich too. Like, like I think, especially in the Midwest, I think we compliment sandwich pretty hard.
unknown:Probably, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's that whole like Midwest nice and little passive aggressive, but uh it's yeah, it's just something I've really tried to improve on, and like really just talking about yeah, feelings and well, being a the ECE environment, um, you must have a good um chance to uh play that out, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. Um, I know you had Justin on, and Justin's a great leader. He and he's one of those people who's like a visionary. Like he is that big picture five years, and like I might not always agree with what he says, but I can respect that because he does have that. And he definitely like there is definitely opportunity there to grow when they want people to be the best people they can be. Because if if we're the best employees we can be, then our members are gonna be the best they can be. And that's what I love about where I do work is the difference between a cooperative and like a for-profit business is we're there for our members, like like you, Sherman Lumber, you guys have electric accounts, so that's you technically are one of our owners, you know. That's the difference where, and if we have profits, it gets returned to our members, like in the form of capital credits. It's not, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I see that email every year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not we're just buying yachts, or you know, people aren't getting insane bonuses, like those investor-owned companies. And there's nothing wrong with capitalism, there's really not. But this is just how it's really kind of struck a chord with me and you know, kind of my beliefs is it helps bring value to other people's lives than just than just having the lights on, and especially now as we've gotten into internet, like COVID taught us that uh the internet's everything, and it's communities that are gonna have it or they're not, and everything we do is web-based. I mean, when was the last time you sent a piece of mail? Right? I don't think my kids know how to fill out an envelope.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and we don't even really like talking on the phone anymore. We rather do it through text, which is newer because for so long it was just Yeah, pick up the phone. Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or write a letter. You know, like I uh this is something I've done. I got I definitely get this from my mother, but actually writing out a thank you note. You know, like um I've I've gotten into that habit because it's it's the actual taking the time to like go get a thank you note and like card and like actually handwriting something out instead of just sending the email or sending the text. Um, absolutely, and it like could brighten somebody's day or just it just shows a better appreciation than a mindless text that Chat GPT could have written for somebody. You know, it's to actually put pen on paper requires thought and imagination and actual gratitude or um more like just more thought than yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's yeah, it's uh it's a hard thing to do.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so now we are on to the segment where I reveal to you how people see you. I asked you to give me a name the names and numbers of people I could reach out to that know you well, so that they could describe you in some adjectives, and then I put those words into themes, and I do this because I don't think we're good at seeing the good in ourselves.
SPEAKER_00:And this is scary for me. Yeah, especially since I saw a lot of the people who I named, and they're like, well, I like one person said, Oh, I said some not some serious. So like I had to give out one funny one. So I'm like, okay, well, I can't wait to read these now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one guy was like, How serious do these have to be? Like, can they be sarcastic? I'm like, maybe everybody's gonna be sarcastic because maybe you know, like that's gonna be the themes. But your first word is benevolent, because two people said kind, three said genuine, trustworthy, caring, generous, sacrificial, and helpful. And your second word is engaging with approachable, and two people said supportive, while light, fun-loving, enthusiastic, witty, humorous, and ever-changing. Your third word is deliberate with intentful, determined, two people said reliable, involved, community-oriented. Fourth is reflective, you're thoughtful, introspective, perceptive, and analytical. And your fifth word is collected with composed, calm, stoic, steady, resilient. I just love your words. Like, I want to I wanna be you reflective and collected. So good.
SPEAKER_00:No, those are I I think they're very fitting too.
SPEAKER_03:And then the funny one was designated driver. I couldn't figure out what in. Yeah, that would be yeah, would maybe be an engaging.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's funny because yeah, I do. Like, and that's just always something I've done. Like, if you guys are gonna have fun, like let me know, I'll give you right home. Like, it's not I don't know. It's like the dad.
SPEAKER_03:Right? Yes, because you always have been the grown-up, like I said.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, any of those words really surprising or no, and I would say that this was like been the scariest part is knowing what people truly think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. So how does it feel?
SPEAKER_00:It feels good. It feels good to know that a lot of the things that we discussed are people see too. Um, and especially for those people that I I did feel comfortable enough to let in, um, that I've let into my little circle, my Faye Five or whatever you want to call it. Um my MySpace top eight, whatever you want to say. Uh but uh yeah, no, it's it's good to hear uh that a lot of the things that I the positive things that I feel about myself are the things that people see in me too.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And uh remember that you are not these words, you are not your thoughts, you are the space between the words, the space between the thoughts. You are the one who knows you have thoughts, observe them, reflect them, but know that you are not them. And then I almost forgot your synopsis. You are composed, thought turned outward. You hold perspective the way others hold certainty. Care moves through what you do, not loudly, but unmistakably. What you bring into space offers people a place to breathe. Love that. So you're a girl dad. Three girls.
SPEAKER_00:Three girls.
SPEAKER_03:Uh, what do you do that you hope your grandkids do when they're your age?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I I really hope that they're there for the people that they uh want to be there for. Um to really to really invest in those people, know the people that are your people and just give them everything.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like you like you don't have to be friends with everybody, but the people that you choose to be.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And that's been really hard uh for my daughters to realize, especially in high school, when you're you want to fit in, you want to be, you want to be liked, you're just everyone's just trying to fit in. And that's really it's a hard thing. Like high school's hard, and being well liked, wanting to be liked is hard, and um so that's what that's what uh I hope that they can continue to do that through the generations that come after me.
SPEAKER_03:And what do you do that you hope they don't do when they're your age?
SPEAKER_00:I hope they're not as hard on themselves as I am. Um we're all our worst critic, and I'd say I'm probably uh I'm probably hard on myself to be a two critics worth, but um I wish that I I I hope that they don't do that, and I hope that they're it's easier for them to see the positives that that they bring to people and the good in their lives. Um focus on the good, not the bad. And that's a hard thing to do. But I hope that I can help get people better at that, especially the ones in my life.
SPEAKER_03:Love that. So this episode is coming out like during the Super Bowl next week.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh.
SPEAKER_03:Are you excited for this year's? I'm like not. What is it?
SPEAKER_00:San Francisco and uh Seattle and oh Seattle and Peijung, yeah. I I don't I don't really care anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you used to be big into football.
SPEAKER_00:I I love football, like I do, but it I love it. I love sports still, it's a huge part of life, but it's also like eh it doesn't have any bearing on, you know. I used to like, oh I gotta watch every game, and now it's like yeah. I I don't know, it's it's getting hard, especially it's that whole time balance. Especially like I love basketball, I love the temple rolls, but like to watch 81 games, forget it. I can't do it. Right. Like if I can if I can watch for 20 minutes, I'm happy. Um do I still care if they do good? Yeah, absolutely. But it's like I just don't know you're just not invested like you used to be you your priorities shift and sports are a distraction. Um they're just and they're entertainment. Yeah, they that's what that's what they are for me, and that's what I like about them. Yeah, but it's also like I'll watch the Super Bowl, but I'm not gonna be like breaking down the game and everything, and yeah, you know, I'll probably watch it by myself with my dogs, and yeah, the kids will be off doing their own thing, and they'll probably be at their friends' Super Bowl parties.
SPEAKER_03:And yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But no, I I think I think it'll be it's always fun. It's always the Super Bowl is always like a new, it's like the end of winter kind of. I guess you know, it's sure it happens in February, but after February is March and April, and then we'll be able to see grass and be outside again, and it's not gonna be below zero. So it's like below zero.
SPEAKER_03:It's warming up soon, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. Oh, really? I I'm so bad about knowing the weather.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't really pay attention.
SPEAKER_00:My wife like studies it and I'm like, I okay, I I guess I don't know. Is it supposed to snow today? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Right, yeah, I never know.
SPEAKER_00:Probably about the ignorance, so but that's okay too.
SPEAKER_03:That's in the future. We don't know. That's that's a future problem.
SPEAKER_00:That's a future mat problem. Yeah, I joke about that. Uh I'm quick to volunteer for things, and then it's always like, oh, past Matt screwed over future mat with this, because then it's like you have to do it. And uh I always joke about that, like uh future this is a future mat problem.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Kind of like uh like I knew that I signed up like we talked about doing this forever ago, yeah. And then when you reminded me that my episode's coming up, it's like, oh, future mat problem. Yeah, this is future mat is here, right?
SPEAKER_03:Actually happened, but was it better than you thought it'd be easy?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And like going into it, I'm like, I told this, I actually said this to Gundy, and he's like, it's fine. He's like, you're not like you're talking to thousands of people. Like, I'm like, yeah, if you can't talk to Beth, like what are we doing here? Like, especially since we've known each other forever. And and then I just want to give you some kind of your flowers on this. Like, this is a great avenue. Like, people are learning more about local people. Like, I think so many we're always worried about like what the celebrities are like people from across the nation are doing, or like struggles they have, or what's helping them that like we're learning more about people that we see at the grocery store or that we've known forever, and it really helps us realize that it's not as big of a world as we think, and like we all could be struggling with something different, or we could all have same the same positives going on, and that we can learn a lot from the people that we live up two houses down from, or we've grown known forever, and we just didn't know some of these things, too. So yeah, major major credit to you for that. Um and I I think you do a good job of bringing those people out and uh opening up and letting them tell their stories. So just major credit to you for that because I do think it is important.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you, thank you. Uh Steven Barlett, um, diary of a CEO. He's probably my favorite podcaster right now, but he does a thing of, you know, like subscribe and let me know what you like so that we can grow so we can get bigger and better guests. And I'm always like, I don't want bigger and better guests, I want everyday average people. Like that's what SuperNod is about. Like anybody struggling with anything can help anybody else, just like with one sentence, one line. And I've always thought if I just get one sentence out of an hour to a podcast, that podcast was worth listening to. And I think every guest that I've had has had wisdom that has helped me so much, and I know has helped so many other people and can keep so right.
SPEAKER_00:And we're like just regular people, we're not like celebrities or like CEOs or like I don't care what they're doing. Nobody cares, like they're not they're not relevant to who the everyday person is. And you know, the people that are on here are everyday people talking about everyday issues or everyday successes, and I think that's really important. Um, I think that's missing from modern journalism. Um, you know, there's not those day-to-day stories, it's all big overblown topics and hyperbole. And you're you're really you and the people that you're having on are really tackling those day-to-day things. And I think that's an important, an important story to be told, um especially when people aren't as willing to put themselves out there. So I would have never done this without you having this podcast. Like I I wouldn't have said out loud a lot of the things I've said. I mean, it's it's hard to do, um especially in just like a random conversation.
SPEAKER_03:So Yeah. Thank you so much for being brave.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you. I hope we can do this again.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, one hundred percent. I love it.
SPEAKER_00:I think it'd be good. I think it'd be good. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, thanks.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.