Supernaut
Supernaut is a podcast about spirituality, sobriety, and the spectrum of self. Hosted by Beth Kelling, this show explores what it means to seek clarity, connection, and personal truth in a world that rarely slows down.
Since beginning her sobriety journey in 2020, Beth has been diving deeper into spiritual practices, emotional honesty, and all the beautiful, messy layers of identity.
Each episode opens the door to conversations about healing, growth, creativity, intuition, and everything in between — because who we are isn’t fixed, it’s a spectrum.
Beth will be joined by guests who share their own stories, perspectives, and spiritual paths — offering insight, inspiration, and the occasional cosmic detour.
Whether you’re sober-curious, spiritually inclined, or just looking to feel a little more human, you’re in the right place
Supernaut
Sparking Creativity
What happens when a daughter interviews her mother, uncovering layers of wisdom that have shaped her own worldview? This conversation begins with a powerful distinction between introversion and extroversion that goes far beyond the typical shy/outgoing dichotomy. "Extroverts wake up with no coins and collect them throughout the day from interactions, while introverts begin with full pockets that others gradually empty"—a metaphor that perfectly captures why some of us need solitude to recharge.
The heart of this episode explores creativity's unexpected pathways. Despite believing she "wasn't artistic" because she couldn't draw, the mother reveals how she discovered her creative voice through gardening, home design, jewelry-making, and intricate mosaics. Her journey offers a powerful lesson: creativity builds upon itself, each success providing confidence for the next endeavor. For listeners struggling to nurture their creative spark, her advice to study others' work not to copy but to inspire resonates deeply.
The most profound moment comes during their discussion of spirituality and judgment. The mother shares an epiphany—realizing that judging others for being judgmental creates the same negative energy we're criticizing. This circular trap of condemnation affects everything from religious differences to political divides. Her daughter credits this awareness as life-changing, teaching her compassion even for those whose views differ dramatically from her own.
Whether you're seeking to understand personality differences, nurture creativity, or break free from judgment, this conversation offers wisdom that transcends the mother-daughter relationship. Consider recording a similar interview with someone who has shaped your worldview—you might be surprised by the insights that emerge when you truly listen.
0:00 Introduction and Music Connection
1:43 Understanding Introversion vs Extroversion
5:57 The Journey of Creative Discovery
13:12 Literary Influences and Favorite Books
24:43 Spirituality and Faith Perspectives
34:39 Dreams, Angels, and Judgment
44:45 Parenting, Protection, and Compassion
51:18 Final Reflections and Life Lessons
Hi, mom, hi, Thanks for coming on. I asked you to pick a song for us to listen to before we started. What song did you pick?
Speaker 2:Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah. It's just the fact that so many people have covered it. You know it's a great song that just everybody sings it, just wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to put it on my weekly to-do list to listen to now, because I probably hadn't listened to it in a couple years, but it's so powerful. Yeah, which version did we listen to?
Speaker 2:Veda- Alexandra Burke.
Speaker 1:Alexandra Burke. Yeah, I'm sure I hadn't listened to that person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so's, yeah, so many people I I got goosebumps in here, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, since I decided to start podcasting random questions for you have um been coming to me. So for about a year now I've been putting questions out there, but I wanted to have you on soon because I realized all the episodes I've done so far, like I keep bringing you up and everybody knows who my dad is because he's out and about and extroverted and you're more introverted. So even some of my closer friends don't know who you are. So here you are. So, um, here you are. So, um, yeah, starting with that introverted, extrovert, extroverted um, it was probably 20 years ago that you gave me an article about what it meant to be an introvert, and I think a lot of people still think it's somebody who's shy versus somebody who's outgoing. But it has nothing to do with that. It's all about energy how much energy you get from people versus how much energy people take from you. So was that the first article that really explained why you were the way that you were?
Speaker 2:Well, of course, I don't remember which article I gave you, which article I gave you For me. It was just there's other typing of people in groups and I was helped by all of them. But the Myers-Briggs introverted extroverted was the one that really told me who I was. And you are right. Told me who I was, and you are right. I hear on media all the time people who have no idea what an introvert is. They think it's shy. So my father was an extrovert. My mother was an extrovert, only she was also a shy person. So she got a lot of her introductions to people through my extroverted father, but then she loved having the relationships of because she's an extrovert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my favorite way to put it is that extroverts wake up with a whole bunch of coins, or everybody wakes up with a whole bunch of coins in their pocket, or what is it? Extroverts wake up with a whole bunch of coins, or everybody wakes up with a whole bunch of coins in their pocket, or what is it? Extroverts wake up with a whole bunch, and then every person no, never mind, I gotta start that whole part over. Okay, my favorite explanation of it is that extroverts wake up with no coins in their pocket and throughout the day, every person that they see gives them another coin, gives them more and more energy. And introverts wake up with tons of coins in their pocket, but every person they see takes them away from them. So by the end of the day, they're exhausted.
Speaker 2:That is a very good way to do it, my personal way of I call it extroverting in the world, and I can do that because I spend a lot of time by myself and so, like you said, I can build up some coins for myself, because I give a lot of coins out when I am out in public.
Speaker 1:So I think it's important to know which you are, so you can say no to things, so you can stay home more. And I'm becoming more introverted as I get older. I have to say no to more because I need to recharge at home, so I'm not sure how you change, but um well, um, the Myers Briggs talks about that.
Speaker 2:The maturing process is becoming more into the middle of the two. Um, yeah, but that's uh.
Speaker 1:I like all those personality tests because they make me feel so, not alone, like, oh okay, this is why I am the way that I am.
Speaker 2:Well, and that was the whole thing. So I grew up with two extroverted parents, but my dad would never have understood introvertedness in any way. My mother, because she was shy, she didn't have any way to help me navigate the outside world. So, yeah, I was. Yeah, I had to figure it all out myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that does sound hard, but I do have to say introverts get a lot more attention for how hard they have it than extroverts, because I'm always like, okay, I get that you people need time alone, but I'm an extrovert. If I don't have people, I have no energy, like I only start cleaning the house if I know people are coming over, because I can feel, not because I need my house to look better for them, but because I know the energy that's coming and how I can already feel it before they show up. Yeah so, yeah. So you are so creative, um, we'll show some, show some pictures of your gardening and, um, the mosaics that you've done in your house. Um, even from cooking, you're so creative with, um, the dishes that you try. Uh, where did you, where, when did you realize you were so creative?
Speaker 2:um, I really don't think I did realize it, I just started. I always knew I wasn't artistic because I can't draw or paint, but um, but artistic comes in so many forms and obviously you know now how artistic you are right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do know, but I just started doing things and I'm a self-learner, so probably gardening was the first thing that I learned about gardening, and then I did my own thing with how I arrange colors and flowers and stuff. And then I did some needlework, like some needlepoint, and I studied the books to see how you do this. But the projects I do I created myself and I just kind of continued doing that with things. So when we built the house that you are now in, I had, you know, snipped out articles about kitchens and how I want things and I just came up with the plan. I, you know this and, uh, I'm really pleased with the plan because even with you and Isaac emptying the inside out, it still is a nice space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very unique layout, yes, but it's it's perfect and I love the outside and I love your um charcoal, it fits the coloring on that fits so well. And so when I see the house, I think, yes, I love the the lines of this building and nobody was building houses like like that around Mora when we built that house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lots of lines, because I remember Dad saying he didn't like lines, but you love lines, yeah, yeah. What was I going to say?
Speaker 2:Oh, I can just continue with the. I just did more and more things with the creativity and that's why I brought this. I need a little spark to get things going. Like the house, I looked at magazines about homes, but then I put it together and I saw somebody that made these pins, brooches with buttons, and so I started doing that, and then I started doing them with pieces of jewelry, started doing them with pieces of jewelry. So this was the first thing I really went out and used my creative.
Speaker 1:I don't know how.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll take a picture of that and add it in, and that was a great learning thing for me to put all this creative things in it and what you don't think about. So I did this is a sterling silver. I did gold pieces. Well, you, you have to separate the goals into all the different color goals. You can't put two goals together and think that it's gonna be a nice. You have to put the right goals together that that coordinate with each other, and so that was a real learning thing and I love doing. The problem was you have to have, um, jewelry pieces and buttons all over the whole house, which isn't a cool thing.
Speaker 1:Would you say that you are a big risk taker in creativity?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think of it that way, but yeah, I'm always trying something different. And then when I you know I love tile and so I read up on how to do tile. So when I did my first farmhouse, I and I also love quilts and especially the star quilts, star quills so I cut the tiles and made star shapes around my bathroom, on my the shower, and then I did a most. So the really first mosaic I ever did was putting style stars on the around the and then filling it in. But just, you know. So I knew then that I could do it.
Speaker 2:And so when I did the second farmhouse, I collected stuff and knew how to put together, but I wanted to do a more creative mosaic style. So I always look through, like Pinkrist, and see what other people are doing, and I saw this picture one time that had a center focus and then everything revolved around it and that clicked with me. And there's so many things you can do with that shape and the majority of my mosaics have had that shape because it's such a great one to use and play around with. And, oh gee, I can do this, you know. So it was all confidence building as far as, yes, I'm a person that, can you know, create things.
Speaker 1:Every time, after you created something, it just built the confidence more and more that, yes, I can do this, I can take more rests. That's great. And with cooking too, I mean you're a great baker and a good cook, a good chef. I am not so good in baking because I'm not good at following the rules, but I think I got my cooking from you that you just try everything and throw whatever in, yeah, yeah. So you also really love books more than anybody else that I know. What are your favorite books?
Speaker 2:I read so many different kinds of books. My favorites are like the Narnia, which I read a long time ago and I try to reread that. But I only started reading Jane Austen well, it's probably 20 years now, but not and that's another one that I like to reread and I have a series of books from a man from Scotland who was raised in Africa, who is I mean, he teaches in a college but he also started a band called the Not so Good Band of Edinburgh and he just does these great and they're very simple books and so if people want to read something, they are very good books to start with because they're easy. And he has three different series. The first series is about a detective in Africa who's a traditionally built woman and if you read it you get it. I mean, if you read it, you get it.
Speaker 2:One kind of books I don't read is Christian fiction, and now most of Christian contemporary writings. Christian fiction, to me, has the moral as kind of hits you over the head, while Alexander McCall Smith, when he writes a story he has, I mean, the number one detective lady is just can teach you so much, just can teach you so much, because as she's working things out. She thinks of the moral implications, and the example I thought of was when her husband was depressed she had to figure out how much can she, you know, nudge him towards you know, getting some help with this what is the moral right thing to do in any given situation? And so I love that series especially for that. It gives a blueprint for how one should live your life and of course there's a villain that comes through the whole time and how you should not live your life. So those I like to reread.
Speaker 1:So you're saying a more subtle way than the hit-you-over-the-head modern Christian books today. And it's kind of like Narnia. First of all, I'm surprised that you said Narnia, because that was my favorite growing up and I didn't expect you to say that. But yeah, and then the good and evil out of Narnia. So it sounds like this writer almost has a touch of that, because you can watch Narnia and not realize all the Christian implications, or you can watch it and realize all of them.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:Any other books you wanted to bring up. Well, I reread Jane. I'm due to reread Jane Austen now. The other just type of books I like is memoirs, and I always read them with a grain of salt because it's how they see their life and but it's just fascinating to see how they are. Um, Goldie Hawn's memoir is so excellent and it's a beautiful book to look through to the hardcover. It's got pinks and stuff in it or something, Because I met Goldie Hawn through Laugh-In which she was ditzy at it. She's a deep thinker. She's azy added. You know she's a deep thinker, she's a deeply compassionate person, and so to see that is just also very, very uplifting for a person.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I'll have to put that on my list. Um, okay, did you turn my phone off? Okay?
Speaker 2:there's. I've studied spiritual direction so I've read a lot of spiritual direction books. But I've also read devotional classics through the ages, like Teresa of Avila. That was in the 1500s in Spain, and the first time I read her about her life I said I don't really understand all that she's saying, but I'm feeling it changing my being by reading her. And then there's contemporary people I like reading, like Henry Nowen, and he's such a great example in the world because he is such a great writer. He is such a great writer but when he looked at what else could I do in the world, he went up to Canada and worked with people who had limited capacities to communicate with you, and he worked with those people to communicate with you and he worked with those people. This great communicator, you know, went in and yeah things. Yeah, there's people like that out there that have so much to say and so much to teach.
Speaker 1:Her Tom and Merton is a really good writer too, but there's just so many that I've I've read through the through the years that yeah, it seems like your superpower is curiosity, because you just want to see all these people's perspectives and see how so many people have lived. That's so great.
Speaker 2:Yes and yes, I actually thought about that and thinking about well, what books do I like and why do I love reading? Yes, and so I thought of it. The other kind of books I get is art books and books of people who have traveled around the United States and taken pictures. I can never look at enough of those pictures. Yeah, I'm just there, can't be enough of that kind of looking at it. So, yes, that speaks to my curiosity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for anybody that wants to be more creative. I think the first and maybe only step first step is looking at other people's creativity. Over winter break we had two weeks off of work and I pretty much spent every single day watching my favorite comedian, kill Tony. It had nothing to do with the kind of creativity I was trying to spark, but I find his um unique outlet of how he um shares other comedians and the different things that he's done. I just find that so inspiring. So I just watched it over and over and I felt like I was just pulling creativity from him for myself, even though it wasn't even the same topic or related at all. When you're looking at creativity, it just breeds more.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah. The other thing I remembered in a few years back. I even asked my mom about that. But when I was a teenager, my mom bought me a book of like the 100 best art in the world type thing, and you know, it was an ad in a magazine and my mom didn't do this. My mom would be like me too. We just don't order on Amazon all the time. This was just, and so a few years ago I asked her why she did that. Of course, she didn't even remember doing that, but I used those first pictures to frame, to put up, and one of them, I know, was turned out to be one of my favorite artists, paul Gagin. And I know when I was in one art gallery where there was a lot of his paintings and he uses bright colors, and I just said, oh, thank you God that he, thank you him to dare to put these colors out into the world, you know, just to open yourself up. But how much was that a part of? I had this book of great paintings.
Speaker 1:And you recently just the Vassalope at the art gallery in town. The last couple years you've been entering art was that scary for the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've got to go. The last couple years I've been traveling, so I haven't got to go there and support you, but I did want to.
Speaker 2:I worked on something for this year, but I didn't get it finished and put in. But the year before I worked, I took everything I had learned and and got just the right frame and and did um the picture and, yeah, I was, I was really pleased with it and it was really fun to have people um like it and and the artists that they have come talk about it was very positive about it and so, yeah, yeah, yeah okay, okay, let's dive into spirituality.
Speaker 1:So how does God speak to you? How do you feel him?
Speaker 2:it changes over time or over things, and so when I was thinking about Narnia Aslam, he's great and powerful, but you want to put your head in his mane and just og him, and so there's that two sides to Jesus, but he's in control, and so it changes, and so sometimes it's annoying, sometimes it's an overwhelming presence, but mostly God lets you go on and you, you just have to believe that. How you're hearing him is how, and I don't understand why he tells other people different things, and the diversity of the earth is unbelievable. And to seeing him and why I like art, Like I said with Gagan, I just said thank you for daring to use all these bright colors. That's how God directed him. And and, uh, you have to be still and listen, and then you just have to say, oh, okay, this is what you're saying or this is what you're leading.
Speaker 1:I just texted a friend that this week that God can only enter a still body. So you wanted us kids to be missionaries. I brought that up already so far in other episodes. How disappointed are you in us that none of us.
Speaker 2:I only remember thinking well, steve's playing the guitar, he could take that over to Africa with him. Isn't how he turned out? Using the guitar and you? I think it was mostly in fourth grade, when I was homeschooling you, we talked about helping people, and so with you, it was more of wanting you to use yourself. We talked about food for Africa or all the needs that people have, and so in that way, you're living your life helping people.
Speaker 2:I mean you're not literally giving them food, but the things you've done and the emphasis you want in your life is helping, and that is the important thing with being a missionary is to make life better for others.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for seeing me that way. So I remember you saying at one point that you were embarrassed to be a Christian because they had killed more people in the name of religion than any other religion. So I think I thought you had said that you didn't even call yourself a Christian. How are you feeling about that now?
Speaker 2:I don't like labels and I've had to realize well, I'm a Christian, so how do you talk about that, except saying that you are, but I, um, I'm also a Lutheran, but that's a label, um, and yeah, how do you define Christianity?
Speaker 2:It's a relationship with God, with Jesus, and so when I look at how to view the world and act in the world and behave in the world, I look at the Gospels and what are the things Jesus said. And it's very hard on me now because so many people are picking out of Scripture negative things and, yes, people, well, and your dad talks about. One pastor used to say when you point your finger at a person, there's three others pointing back at you. And that's what I see in our American society, and apparently it's happening around the world too is that to be religious is to point your finger and say that person's wrong, but they're pointing back at themselves, really so yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you say relationship with God, does it ever feel overly one-sided on your end or God's side?
Speaker 2:Well, he's in control, and that's another reason to think of Aslam, that he's the powerful one. Powerful one, and we're not always going to get it right, but it's the working out of it. Staying on the path of listening and, yeah, sometimes I'm better at doing that than others. And you know I have my own stuff that gets in the way and tell me what the question was again.
Speaker 1:Just how do you define Christianity?
Speaker 2:A relationship with Jesus and knowing that and if the relationship is ever more one-sided. Yes, it's always more one-sided, but I'm the one that's. My decision is how much time am I?
Speaker 1:going to listen, yeah, um. So I don't remember dreams super well and I don't know if I told you about this dream, but last fall, 2024 fall, the lilacs bloomed, but before they bloomed, okay. So the night before they bloomed I had a dream that me and my dog and my cat were sitting under the lilac bushes outside of my house and it was just a beautiful sunny day and up walked to this lion and I remember feeling very, very calm but very scared at the same time. And then Pocahontas, my dog Pocah, barking, and I remember putting my hands on her and saying you need to stay calm or we're going to die. And I don't know if I realized I was in a dream, but I was all of a sudden self-aware enough to realize this is an analogy for my whole life If I don't stay calm, I'm not going to live up to my potential. Because the lion it was I could tell in my head like this is a tamer. This isn't a lion from the wild. We're in Minnesota, like it got out of a zoo or something. If we can stay calm, we won't die. But I realized in that moment that in life, if I don't learn how to stay calm, I might as well be dead, almost because I won't be living up to my full potential. And I don't remember dreams, but that's a dream that has stuck with me. It was so vibrant.
Speaker 1:And then the next day the lilac bushes were actually blooming and everybody said that's never happened in the fall before. It was had to do with a lot of the rain and humidity we had, because otherwise they only bloom in the spring. So it was had to do with a lot of the rain and humidity we had. Okay, because otherwise they only bloom in the spring. So it was like, subconsciously, I must have seen them start to bloom to have this dream. But I think that's why it made such an impact on me is because, like they, they don't usually bloom. And it took me a long time to realize that, yeah, that was the lion. That was like a metaphor for Aslan from Narnia. And, yeah, been trying lots of ways to stay calm since then. Did I ever tell?
Speaker 2:you that? No, no, yeah, yeah, dreams can be very, very powerful that way yeah, powerful.
Speaker 1:That way, yeah. So you switched denominations from a Missouri Senate Lutheran to a non-Missouri Senate Lutheran. What was that like? Was it scary, was it hard?
Speaker 2:It wasn't scary because it was so necessary for me, but I remember your mom, was really disappointed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, how long didn't she touch you for?
Speaker 2:It really wasn't that long. But yeah, she just said and for her it was like embarrassment for her friends that why is her daughter doing this?
Speaker 1:Why was it so necessary?
Speaker 2:Why was it necessary for me? Yeah, because I did believe certain things that the Missouri Synod taught, just kind of a simple thing about communion You're not supposed to have communion with anyone except Missouri Synod people, and I had always had communion when I went other places, and so that didn't, that didn't the way. Another really big issue is women in the ministry.
Speaker 1:Women can't be ministers in the Missouri.
Speaker 2:Senate and the ELCA you can. So there's just some hard-line things like that that I just couldn't relate to anymore. And a pastor shortly before we left was talking, was having Bible studies about all the different religions and what was all the different Christian religions and what was wrong with what they did, and sometimes it was even like let's laugh at these people for believing this and we believe God came down and impregnated a woman with Jesus Christ, who is God, and we can laugh at other people for their beliefs. Yeah, true, so yeah, I just couldn't be comfortable and it was a good change for us to make. It was a good change for us to make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really self-aware, and I credit you to helping me be self-aware at a young age. This was probably a couple decades ago. Your church, the non-Missouri Senate one, was voting on if gays should be allowed to be members of the church or not, and I remember you told me about this epiphany that you had, that you were voting yes, of course, gays can be members of the church, and you were judging the people who were voting against it and you realized, well, I'm being just as bad. Judgment is judgment, and so thank you, because I feel like I've always been self-aware of judging other people because of that huge moment you had.
Speaker 2:And thank you for reminding me of that, because it's a really hard thing to remember and it is so important.
Speaker 1:With the political world right now. I mean everybody's judging everybody. I know it's just as bad to judge people.
Speaker 2:Even if they're wrong, it's hard. Even if they're so terribly wrong, you can't be judging them.
Speaker 1:God doesn't know the difference between what you're judging. It's all judgment to him.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And you brought me to a Buddhist temple and a Hindu temple when I was like 19 years old and I was surprised at the time that you did it, but it was a very beautiful day for me, so thank you for doing that.
Speaker 2:You're welcome and I know you were curious about it and it was a an opportunity for me to see too. Um, because we sat down the the buddhist.
Speaker 1:We sat at a table and talked to and the first thing he said was now, don't give up your Christianity. This is just some extra stuff you can add in with it. Yeah, so that felt beautiful right away. Okay, if you could have been born into any other religion, which one would it be Jewish? Yeah, I know you would say that when you got your DNA test back from what's that website called 23andMe. Yeah, you were like I hope. Yeah, yeah, tell me about your belief in angels.
Speaker 2:So this was interesting. I'm actually not big on angels, but I think at the time that I talked to you about having a personal angels, I had read other people's accounts that how helpful this is for them to know that they have that protection and um, and so I wanted to give you that possibility of oh, you can look at this. You know that that this is a safety, and, yeah, how many times has everybody just been saved from tragedy? And yes, I think there's so many times we've been saved and we don't even know it because a few seconds were different here or there, and so what I wanted was just for you to have the opportunity, if that was a helpful thing to you. For me, Jesus is, you know, it's Jesus' presence that I feel in those times when I need it. So, in those times when I need it, but I knew that this was a thing that was so helpful for other people and I wanted to give that to you and I had forgotten about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you told me that I had two angels and that I should name them. And I remember I couldn't ever settle on names because I was like this is the most important names I'm ever going to give anybody. So I think I was too overwhelmed to ever pick names. But um, yeah, and then you had a picture of an angel a photograph.
Speaker 2:Yeah, someone had passed out these photographs that someone had taken a picture in the sky and there was a floating being in this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you still have that picture?
Speaker 2:I am mad. No, I might not. It might have been burnt, oh your house burnt down. Yeah, yeah, because I had it, or it could be stuck someplace. But yeah, nowadays so many people are making things.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it would be AI now, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:But in those days there was, yeah, maybe this is real, maybe this is somehow. They caught this because we know that there's beings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I remember the first night I was home with my son James and we stayed at your house and I went running into your bedroom and said I know how much you love me. Now, like I get it, like it's a new feeling. I'm sorry for how horrible, how mean I've been, but I get it now. I can feel your love fully now because I understand what it feels like to love your own child. And I remember just asking you like how do some people like, how do some mothers especially like, not be there for their children? And you just said some people just care about themselves in their own selfish ways too much. And it was just mind blowing. But I remember a couple of years later, some story had gotten brought up and somehow you had mentioned that, um, some women do need to leave their children for a bigger cause than themselves. Do you remember that story?
Speaker 2:I think, because I realized that there was some missionaries that felt called to someplace, that they wouldn't be able to take their children, and they left their children. And I think maybe we can go back to the judging yes, I, I would judge, no, you couldn't leave your children. But then the flip side is that how can I judge what another person is?
Speaker 1:um, and yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's like the other side of judgment is compassion if you can learn to let go of your judgment. There's compassion there because it's like I talked in another episode about how I used to think. I used to judge people for taking their own lives, but now it's like I can't say what. I'm old enough and mature enough now to say I can't know what was going on in their heads and what kind of pain they were feeling, and so that's how you learn to have compassion for people who do think about taking their lives.
Speaker 1:And yeah, so I think those things are just hand in hand and you never know what this mother could be going through. So it's easy to judge and say how can't you be at home with your child? But I mean, maybe you're in the military or, yeah, being a missionary or whatever reason, it doesn't matter, god is the only one who should be judging. So, yeah, glad that I could have that experience Batman movie the dark night and I made you watch it Cause, again, I'm just obsessed with anything good versus evil.
Speaker 1:So I've always been obsessed with superhero movies and when, after you watched it, you were like well, I'm upset that when Batman had the chance to kill Joker, it was like three-fourths into the movie. They were going head-on motorcycle and, I think, semi-truck I haven't watched this for a while but Batman had the chance to kill the Joker and he didn't. He kind of paused because in superhero movies a lot of times they're like they rather put people in jail and they don't want to kill, they don't want the violence. But I remember you being upset that he didn't kill. And I bring this story up because you've also said that if an intruder was coming in the house, you would have no problem killing somebody to protect your children and protect your family, and I've heard other people say like, no, they couldn't ever kill anybody, even if it meant to save their children. And so, as peaceful and kind and loving and God-fearing of a person you are, you still have this ruthlessness in you, and that's probably where I get mine too. In high school, people called me the bitch killer.
Speaker 2:But so can you talk about that? And the truth is you don't know if you could pull that trigger, because it's why people are saying no, I couldn't do that, because it is just an extremely difficult thing to take another life, and I think why this was in my mind. There was a movie that was made out of a book that was made out of a book the Prince of Tides where these grown children were trying to recover from a home invasion that they had and they weren't killed. But it was horrendous, and I think in my mind, seeing how damaging that was to these people to have somebody do that that, how could you not want to protect your children? So that's what I would want to do. I don't know if I could do that.
Speaker 1:And do you remember being mad at Batman for that?
Speaker 2:Not so much remembering it as no, I can see that that was what I would do, because there is this side of me that is like let's just take care of the problem and get rid of this. This person but yeah, it's, it's speaks to the multi sides of every person. I mean, you know, thinking about that judgment thing, yeah, I need to be a little bit more aware of that in my life, and yeah, so that's the thing about epiphanies they don't last forever unless you make a conscious effort somehow.
Speaker 1:That's why I have sticky notes all over my house with reminders. But yeah, I think I just really remembered that because it shocked me. Just another layer of you, yes. So I'd like to end with the two questions what do you do right now, at your age, that you hope that your kids do when they're your age, and your grandkids?
Speaker 2:This was very hard. Yeah, I don't know, as if I have a, but now, if we just look at the look at the conversation we've had, I would want them to not be judging that they would be open to what is in the world, and I would want them to be open to things unseen be open to things unseen, like the telepathy tapes that you told me were in all way real.
Speaker 1:What do you do that you hope that they don't do? Do you have any vices, any thing?
Speaker 2:you wish you'd done it to Well. Again, it's the judging. Just to see that there's more than one side to all of the questions in life and be open to be surprised. So I don't want them to be closed minded and zero focus. Be willing to change.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, we already decided that you're going to come back on so we can talk about some of the spiritual books, but, um, this was really great. I would love for this space to be used for other people to bring their moms on or their dads and kind of do like a love letter, talk about questions that you've always wanted to ask them, and have a recording for yourself, um, because, yeah, this was really great and for all my friends who don't know you all, I think that they will understand me as a person so much more now that um get to see you in this. So, appreciate it so much, love you so much. Love you. Not comes comes from the Greek word sailor and means voyager or traveler, like an astronaut searching the stars. A super not is one searching the inner and outer worlds of self, navigating life, consciousness and reality, striving for betterment. The paradox is that seeking and striving can create more unrest and more unhappiness. So, while calm seas may not make great sailors, I plan to explore the idea of light rescuing darkness instead of fighting it.