Supernaut
Supernaut is a podcast about spirituality, sobriety, and the spectrum of self. Hosted by Beth Kelling, this show explores what it means to seek clarity, connection, and personal truth in a world that rarely slows down.
Since beginning her sobriety journey in 2020, Beth has been diving deeper into spiritual practices, emotional honesty, and all the beautiful, messy layers of identity.
Each episode opens the door to conversations about healing, growth, creativity, intuition, and everything in between — because who we are isn’t fixed, it’s a spectrum.
Beth will be joined by guests who share their own stories, perspectives, and spiritual paths — offering insight, inspiration, and the occasional cosmic detour.
Whether you’re sober-curious, spiritually inclined, or just looking to feel a little more human, you’re in the right place
Supernaut
Seasons of Life and the Freedom of Letting Go
Freedom is watching the sunset without worrying about tomorrow's problems. It's finding peace within yourself rather than seeking constant external validation. It's moving through difficult seasons while still appreciating how far you've come.
In this deeply reflective conversation with therapist Jen, we unpack the concept that "the healing journey never ends, but we can reach a point where healing is no longer our whole story." Many of us become so invested in fixing ourselves that we forget to actually live. We explore how this perpetual identity of healing can become its own prison, preventing us from recognizing genuine progress and experiencing contentment.
One of the most powerful ideas we discuss is that our triggers reveal where we're not yet free. When someone pushes your buttons, it's showing you where your own work lies—not where theirs does. This perspective transforms triggering moments from frustrations into opportunities for growth. Rather than blaming others for how we feel, we can ask: "What is this reaction teaching me about myself?"
We also dive into cognitive distortions—those filters through which we interpret our experiences, often with a negative bias. With an estimated 6,000-8,000 thoughts racing through our minds daily, learning to catch, test, and challenge these thoughts becomes essential for mental wellbeing. Jen shares practical strategies for recognizing when our thoughts aren't serving us and how to redirect them toward more balanced perspectives.
The conversation weaves between personal stories about family dynamics, running as therapy, and finding balance between hustle culture and self-acceptance. Throughout it all runs a common thread: the freedom that comes from letting go—of perfectionism, of others' opinions, of the need to control every situation and fix every problem.
Ready to discover where you might not be free? Listen now and begin transforming your triggers into teachers and your self-criticism into self-compassion.
0:00 Ramble On: Finding Meaning in Music
6:35 The Healing Journey: Finding Balance
13:23 Freedom from Triggers and Thoughts
21:57 Cognitive Distortions and Thought Patterns
30:54 The "Girl Era": Family Dynamics
43:22 Therapy Philosophy: Being a Conduit
49:38 Finding Balance and Letting Go
Welcome to Supernot, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Today, I have on Jen Peterson for the third time, because she's the one that makes us all know that we need a therapist. I mean, I've always known, but everybody else is telling me it's time Jen is making me know, oh sweet. So what song did you pick for us to listen to today?
Speaker 2:Led Zeppelin's Bramble On Just a favorite, long time favorite song. It's one of my cartoons that I just usually if I'm on a trip I'm just rolling on and really I think I love it because it just physically gives you that sense that you get to move through hard things and just keep going, like, but you have to keep going, you can't quit. I mean, I guess you could, but I don't, it's not a thing. So it also, at the very beginning, talks about basically that fall is on its way and I hate fall, which is a really unpopular opinion.
Speaker 2:Me too, I've never met anybody else that has said that, and I say it all the time we hate fall I only hate it because it means winter is coming and I hate winter. Oh my God. Right at the beginning he references that basically, autumn lights its way, but it's time to ramble on. You have to go through it, even if it's not your favorite season.
Speaker 1:I've learned to like it more because it makes spring, which is my favorite. But I only love spring so much because it means summer is coming, and summer is my actual favorite. So we're recording this on August 11th and I can already tell that the sun is changing. Oh yeah, it's like 10 minutes a day, which is like an hour a week, which is so brutally unfair.
Speaker 2:It is brutally unfair. My kids and I are going to have shirts made that say, yeah, we really fucking hate fall, so don't ask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my God. I feel so seen and so heard right now this is amazing, yeah, and I went up to my brother yesterday and was like this is the last thing I want to talk about. But it's almost September, which means then it's October, Then it's November. Do you know what's next? He's like December. I'm like well, what happens in December? I'm like the Christmas party. We need to start planning it.
Speaker 2:And he's get out of here. No, not until september 1st, because then it's just gonna fly by. Yeah, um, as soon as we start planning, yeah, it's the year's over. I know this year in december I have a grandbaby on the way. So I'm really like okay with like we're just counting down now to the end. So I'm excited, I'm I don't know what's the due date, because your birthday is the 24th yep and the baby is due the 16th okay, december so exciting so but that doesn't make me like fall anymore.
Speaker 2:It's just we're just gonna get through it and then we get to hold a baby. That's really what I'm thinking. People always want to debate why you don't like fall and just like it's sad. I've always had more grief in the fall, but I don't know if it's just the season where, and then this year my dad is on hospice and so I don't know. Tony, like I'm putting in a good word, you could probably try to make it through fall, but if we don't, if he doesn't make it through fall, it's just going to be another layer of reasons that I'm probably never going to love fall.
Speaker 1:So and I had this little talk with myself like maybe I should try to like it but no, I've put on Facebook like this was probably 10 years ago and I said I'm not going to complain at all this winter, and I'm sure I did.
Speaker 2:I know but I've tried, I've, so I've tried also, but it's like it's the lack of sun, and then I think it's just that it's still nice outside, so you still feel compelled to be out there, but it starts to get crunchy and chilly and I do like that about winters.
Speaker 1:I don't have to feel guilty that I like literally don't leave my house, I just binge tv just be warm all day yeah, you don't feel bad when you put your pajamas on at six which reminds me. So last weekend I binged the show unstable with rob low have you seen it? Good, no, no, I loved it. And he gets a live-in therapist.
Speaker 2:What, yeah, so I'm like, okay, new goal, I need a live-in therapist. You should ask my kids about that, and Jake probably.
Speaker 1:I don't know if they love it. Do you just therapize everybody all the time at home?
Speaker 2:No, usually by the time I get home I'm all out of any smart thoughts, like they probably think I'm like, truly just a drooling, empty, thoughtless human. No, I don't. I don't do a lot of therapizing at home.
Speaker 1:Do they ever want you to more Are?
Speaker 2:they ever like. Mom, I need you to therapize me. I would say, like my girls are. Probably really is deep the right word. I don't know. They like to talk about stuff. They're very self-aware.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes, yeah, mostly it makes sense.
Speaker 2:They're deep, they like to talk about emotions and thoughts and what makes people tick, and including themselves. So we probably have a lot more of I don't know. I just feel like there's a depth when you're actually interested in human behavior and why people are the way they are, including themselves.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's why I've always known I wanted to be in therapy, because I've always been so interested in why people do what they do, and I want to know why I do things. Oh my gosh, I love personality tests. I want to know why I do things.
Speaker 2:I brought a little. So everything online is monetized right. So you have, like, therapists online and you have people online who are always selling something. This was a really nice intro to someone who's selling something, but I thought I'd read it because I cut off the top.
Speaker 2:But the quote that this particular person started with was the healing journey never ends. And then she says but yet new research suggests we can actually reach a point where we don't have to focus on healing all the time, that we can reach a place where healing is no longer our whole story, that we can feel safe enough, present enough and calm enough to live and just live. I see this every single day in her work as a nervous system practitioner. A powerful example is that studies from Norway suggest that even cognitive impairments associated with depression can be reversed and if you want to see more, this is where she does her sales tactic, but that mental health is a dynamic response to interventions and sensitive to social and environmental factors. People can and do recover fully, and nervous system regulation is a vehicle for doing so. So if you've become convinced that you'll always struggle or you're always a problem to solve, then you might stop hoping for real change. In fact, individuals heavily invested in the identity of healing may experience elevated levels of anxiety and physical stress as they analyze their experiences. Um and then. So if you feel like you're a hopeless, never ending project and you're ready to shift from the perpetual identity of healing into the identity of growth, then you have to DM this lady for all of her money. But whatever, that's not my favorite part. I just like the idea because I say it a lot. In therapy, one of our biggest hangups is becoming a problem to solve, and not that we don't have internal problems that we do need to work on. But there becomes this point where at least rest right, like if you're continually climbing this mountain, it gets exhausting. You have to find places in those kind of journeys where you just stop and look out and see how far you've come.
Speaker 2:Had a super good reminder of this last week. I was driving home from my parents and I've been running a ton and I was kind of complaining about my progress to my oldest daughter who swiftly gave me some insight. That was at first I was a little offended. I was like calm down so, but in the end what she was trying to say was have you stopped and looked at how far you've come, because you've only been doing this since the end of March and, like, just basically reminded me that I used to run for a year.
Speaker 2:I was running four years before this and this was really. I had a four-year break before I started running and I've been doing this for four months and I'm like I want to be faster, I want to be faster, I want to see results, blah, blah, blah. And she was like whoa, whoa, whoa, like, brutally, like. She was like do you remember when we first started running? Because she was running before she knew she was pregnant? And she's like you were not running 12 miles at a time, lady. We were happy if we could make it up a couple blocks before I had to walk. So I really reflect on that. I was like it's only been four months which is exciting.
Speaker 1:Does it make you feel good to realize that so much better? It's so good that she pointed that out.
Speaker 2:Because I do have gains, like I do feel stronger, I do not have to stop as much as I even did a month ago. So yeah, she has a point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I told you that on another episode of that. I'm always exhausted because I'm always trying to heal or like fix the next thing or whatever. But I mean, meditating has been helping with that also. I mean, I think I'm just like, I'm just chiller in the moment, like just more content maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like more accepting A lot of times if you're always seeking accepting is not, you're just not mindful.
Speaker 1:You're just thinking about the next time.
Speaker 2:The next step is like a paradox, because it's really about being okay today, like right now, which it's really easy to say when you're okay right now.
Speaker 1:It's a lot harder to say when you have a bunch of stuff piling up at the same time what I'm obsessed with right now, for the last couple days, something that I heard on a podcast that I know I had heard before, but it just hit different this time is, um, when something triggers you, it's showing you where you're not free. And freedom is such an important thing to me right now, cause, like, what does freedom mean to me? And it's like, um, watching a sunset, um, watching the clouds, without worrying about things, and so when somebody's triggering me, like I'm allowing them to, let me feel a certain way because I'm not free, because it's still all me, it's all internal, you know. So now I'm like this week I'm like every time somebody triggers me, I'm going to get excited, like how can I work on myself now? So this is like opposite of that, but also then I can let it go forever, right, yeah, yeah, I think. But now nobody's triggered me because, of course, I'm like in such a good place about it right now.
Speaker 1:But so I'm just waiting for the next person and then I'm going to be like, okay, where can I send this back to?
Speaker 2:And are you going to let it? We're really the ones that allow ourselves to be like pushed off kilter. It's just too easy. Sometimes it just depends on how tired you are and how many other stressors are, how many things are weighing on you. I think there are times where we naturally have rest in life and sometimes you just have to remind yourself to stop, just accept that things are okay right now and the other shoe doesn't have to drop. I mean, it probably will. Chances are good, but yeah.
Speaker 1:I told you, I got an aura ring and so I haven't been working out because I'm letting myself get eight hours of sleep a night and that also has me really focused. I think like I have to run, like fall, winter, spring and in the summer, when I have to be to work earlier, I think I just and like I can't go home after morning meetings. I have to like it's just too chaotic. So I'm like sleep is more important right now for me than working out, and I mean every time I like I want to run. I'm like I need to go back to our episode from before, because the second time I watched it I was like, oh my God, I need to go running. It like inspired me so much because I saw myself feeling so good from running, and now I haven't been. But I also like, as soon as I can get the sleep under control, you're going to feel better, Like yeah, then I think I can start running.
Speaker 2:Like one thing at a time and I think there's natural sort of, there's a natural progression of motivation sometimes too, and if you're not feeling it you can press against that if you want to, but it feels really hard. I can already feel some of my motivation slipping because this big race that we're going to do it's called Hood to Coast. It's from Mount Hood out to Seaside, oregon, with 12 other women. It's coming up up and I'm like, am I going to lose my sort of like want to run after that, except for that fall, running is amazing. Running it's not hot. So there's one good thing it's been the hottest, freaking stickiest summer.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh Right. So hopefully I'll. It was just hitting sort of a natural training plateau, but I think it'll be okay, cause my friend just signed us up for another half. So that's like the beginning of October, so we'll keep running.
Speaker 1:But I also think, like I get addicted to like, oh, I need to do this, I need to do this instead of just like you know what I mean. Can that be an addiction, like always struggling and striving for something? So if I'm like it's okay that I'm not working out and it's like, cause I think I'm addicted to the?
Speaker 2:next thing. I always, I always call it. I have this tapestry in my office. It's it's a scene of like the mountains, but it's all different layers of it. So it's like the trees around the bottom and then there's several Hills and then it turns into this giant mountain. At the top is this beautiful sun and all these birds, and I use it all the time to illustrate that idea. So a lot of people want to be at the top of the mountain right now. We don't want all that progress in the middle, but we also just need to stop like it's exhausting you can't just be climbing the mountain all the time.
Speaker 2:you'll tumble right down that bitch because you'll be so tired, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Because all the podcasts I'm addicted to are like Andrew Huberman and Diarrhea of a CEO, where it's like getting good at game, drive, drive, drive. Yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2:And you could call that hustle culture, which I think we're debunking the myths of hustle culture. So it's good to have a balance. I mean, I think it's good to hustle obviously.
Speaker 1:And I've been doing feminine energy meditations which helps me regulate that. So I'm not so hustle hustle Because I thought that I wanted to be and I liked being and I'm good at it, but I don't think it's good for my nervous system.
Speaker 2:It's not, I would say, it's probably not. How content are you when you're hustling? I?
Speaker 1:don't know, you're hustling, so you don't really have time to think about it, right?
Speaker 2:But I think there's just a time for everything, like there's a time to hustle and there's a time to rest, and you got to find what that is for you. So, yeah, work on your sleep and if running happens to come up next, then that's fine, but you might find something even cooler, like it's kind of biking season and we haven't biked I know summer. I always looked at my bike.
Speaker 1:This morning I thought I should, I should have thrown it in my car and tell me more about the run, the relay, one with 12 women hood to coast.
Speaker 2:So it's like a 200 mile race. Uh, there's two vans of six people and you each run three legs. So, like the first van goes to the start line, each person in the van runs like a five to seven mile run and then they're done running and then your van. So I'm in the second van, so then my van starts and we each do our six runs and then the the next van goes again, then we go again, then they go again, then we go again and then they go again, then we go again and by the end we're at the coast and we've all run like around 20 miles in 24 to 36 hours.
Speaker 2:It's like the Ragnar. I mean most people have heard of a Ragnar. So we've done a bunch of Ragnars, like four or five or six, and this one is like hood to coast was the original Ragnar. This is where it all started. So I'm excited. Like some of us in, I've done Ragnars with some of the women I'm going with and then the other van I don't know anybody and they all seem really cool and it makes super excited.
Speaker 2:You're in like a group chat or, yeah, we're in a group chat, we have meetings, the the woman who's organizing is just super detailed and awesome. She's very sweet. So I mean there's a lot of like moving parts to this race. Or you can just show up and not know anything, like, I think, is what I've done in the past, which I'm okay with, because I kind of don't like to know what I'm getting into. But I do know what I'm getting into. So, like yesterday, I ran at lunch and then I ran again in the evening, just because I think these are not super long runs. They're like four or five miles at a time, which is long, right, but you get really sore because you're sitting in between the runs.
Speaker 2:So, like my first run is kind of estimated to be at like one in the afternoon. My second run is going to be like two in the morning and then my last run will be like one in the afternoon again. So in that amount of time you're just kind of sweaty and grody, You're kind of tired and your stomach gets weird and people smell bad.
Speaker 1:It's such an adventure, though it's so fun. I bet that gets a lot of people into running, like if you sign up for that kind of race, there's just so much more to them than just running.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no-transcript, and we're girls like I cannot imagine a all-male team hit. The regner that was just in minnesota last weekend was super duper hot and I have a friend who did it and she ran like a 10. She had like a 10 mile run so the legs were a bit longer and she ran it in like 90 degrees with like 95 humidity and she got sick. She made it to her last round but I think it was. It was rough. I'm hoping that organs you know, I'm hoping that Oregon's you know, sort of known for like what's the word?
Speaker 1:Rain.
Speaker 2:No right, like a little bit, just Like. I hope it's not humid, I'm really just would love a whack Like dewy, yeah, and like what's it called. We start up high in the mountains and we come down, but I don't think it's all downhill. I think there's elevation gain.
Speaker 1:So and think it's all downhill. I think there's elevation gain, so, and does it start with high elevation, where your lungs aren't going to be used to?
Speaker 2:it does, but van one is doing all those, so we should be like 30 miles down the mountain by the time we start. So I'm kind of hoping that that's not a thing, but once again it's a detail I don't want to know until I'm there just sucking wind yeah, so it's fun awesome and we're staying in in oregon for a couple days, like at a vrbo and then at the house of this really nice girl who knows like half of us. She doesn't know at all and it's just letting us stay that's so cool it'll be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't done one for a couple years and when are the half marathons? I think the next one's the beginning of october. More is half marathon will already be passed by the time this comes, but ours is this weekend.
Speaker 1:I did it one time and it was 100 degrees by 8 am it was so hot.
Speaker 2:I race-directed with three of my other friends that marathon half for like I don't know five or ten years, and if it was I can't remember what year it was, but it was so hot. We had runners very melty, we thought about pulling the course. It was so hot. It's not fun to run when it's hot, it's brutal.
Speaker 1:Horrible. So in my family there's always been boys. There's never really been too many girl female offspring. It was just me for a long time, and then it was finally me and Haley, and it was just us for a long time, and then finally Lexi came, and now my nephew Isaac has Drew, who's one, and he has another girl on the way. When I found out he was having another girl, like all I could think of was the Game of Thrones quote, um, by Ned Stark, which I know you don't know. Uh, game of Thrones, but um, he says daughters were harder than war, and I'm so excited for my family to be in the girl era. So you are the third of three girls and you have three girls, yes. So what advice do you have?
Speaker 2:for girls. Oh my gosh, I love our all-girlness Right, so I don't have a different measure of being alive. I only know girl life, of being alive, I only know girl life. Actually, I used to be really offended by and I'll tell you what everyone says when they know you have all girls is oh my gosh, that's horrible, like it feels so bad for you, and I'm just thinking I feel bad for you. I do Like I, especially that particular you know just. Oh, it must have been awful.
Speaker 2:I had amazing kids. I. I grew up with all girls, so I'm really used to emotions and conflict and lack of conflict and kindness and like the way women work together. I had a lot of aunts. I had really strong aunts, um, so mostly for me I didn't understand boys. They seem more like war Not that I've been through war, uh, but I think the sort of like the greatest thing about having girls has just been they'll talk to you about things that really matter, like I it would be. I mean, they don't tell me everything, so that'd be weird, or my sisters and and I, but we talk about the things that bother us, we talk about the things that hurt, we talk about the things that have been hard. And it would be odd for me because my sister has all boys, um, and they kind of come to her when things are resolved. But they still come to her. She's still like their person.
Speaker 1:They still have emotions, um but maybe because she was around so many girls too. She could, she's good at it and she she's a therapist too.
Speaker 2:So because my mom said that I was harder than my three brothers combined well, I see, and I never had a boy, so I don't know, they probably would have been easier, I just don't know. Yeah, and of course there was definitely, but like did?
Speaker 1:they fight because I think my mom said that, because I would like get catty. Me and my friends would get catty, you know, uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Well they were, I'm a girl's girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they learned to be girl's girls. They're girl's girls. They were, yeah, they were very close.
Speaker 2:And maybe I was catty because I didn't know how to girl. I was like I only have brothers and nephews like I don't know.
Speaker 1:They fought like hell, like truly. They definitely almost murdered each other, like, yeah, I mean they were so much older that I I mean I was more of an only child than anything, but I don't know, I remember what my sister literally like, throwing my sister to other sister down the stairs for wearing a sweater that was hers.
Speaker 2:I just remember picking up the phone and calling my mom. I was like girl mom Seriously All the way down the stairs. So we were either getting along super, super good or raging, I guess, but it was over quick. Because, nobody's wondering who's mad. There's no. I mean maybe there was a little pouting or whatever, but things got resolved pretty quickly do you like the movie little women.
Speaker 1:Was it very little women in your house?
Speaker 2:it was little womeny. I don't know if any of us were that polite or proper or girly right. We grew up on the iron range. So early is not necessarily a thing and for some reason, like in my house, my dad was very I don't know we. He would always be like you. You're not gonna be cheerleaders, I'll promise you that. So, like you better be athletes, you better be smart. Um, did anybody want to be a cheerleader? I'm sure my sister, lisa, wanted to be a cheerleader, but she was a really good athlete, so she had to do what she was good at.
Speaker 1:Were you ever depressed? Veda, like hoping one of your brothers was a girl Like you're, like brother, another brother, another brother, brother number three, yeah probably yeah, I think I wanted Bodie to be a girl. Yeah, yeah, and my niece Ashley down in Texas just had her third boy, like I think they're all under five or six and I'm like oh my God that was my sister's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were so cute, but they were so much. They broke every single thing. I bet Her whole house was just broken Always. Now my daughter is having a baby boy, and so maybe we're entering our boy era. I'm not really sure, but I'm super excited to do boy things with him.
Speaker 1:So you would tell Isaac two girls so far. I just have a feeling it's going to be two more girls after that. Communicate, is that what you think? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:You have to get soft. You have to really attune to feelings a lot, because they really will run the show. You have to do a lot because they really will run the show. You have to do a lot of.
Speaker 1:Because Drew is already cute drama, not drama, but playing on loss.
Speaker 2:There's lots of verbal. There's lots of talking, laughing, playing and fighting. My girls fought for sure. Physically that was definitely a thing. They punched each other, but someone was going gonna haul off if it got a little. It was crooked physical yeah um so I don't know, I guess I just don't have a different experience to live on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love girls are funny do you know the name of your first grandchild yet?
Speaker 2:I do, but you can't tell. I think, tell yeah, because they're saying it's Louis.
Speaker 1:Do you know, veda? What is it, louis?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Louis Jacob.
Speaker 2:And we're going to call him Louie or Lou or whatever. Whatever we end up calling him, he's going to be adorable. That's so cute. I can't wait. His mom and dad are two of the cutest humans, so so we'll see what he comes out like. I was in the garage this weekend. Nick has a lot of skateboards already, like long boards and tall boards and skateboards, and I was like the baby has skateboards. Well, nick does, so I bet there'll be like a lot of riding on wheels and breaking arms that That'll be fun though.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I'm super excited he had different helmets decamo yeah, he could paint some, yeah, for every age that he's at.
Speaker 2:I literally can still remember Nick when he and Lily were on track together and I just thought he was the cutest little kid. He had this bright red hair and he was super cute and super fast and he was just a funny little dude. I can still see him running, so I'm excited. I'm kind of hoping this baby has red hair.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, but I don't know what the genetic red hair from red hair Is.
Speaker 2:Nick, the only one that has the more red hair. Yeah, we have no red hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know any other hippins that have red hair.
Speaker 2:Have red hair, yeah, yeah I know, maybe like a strawberry blonde, maybe for sure, we have no redheads, zero. I thought my mom had red hair my whole life, but it was just a box, oh she pulls off red.
Speaker 1:Really well, when did you find?
Speaker 2:out. Were you like I. Just when was little, I remember if people would ask me what color my mom's hair would, I would say red. Yeah, because she does a nice auburn brown and she has this cute complexion with like lots of freckles, and so I just thought that my mom had red hair. Yeah, she doesn't. I think it was probably blonde.
Speaker 1:But she's pretty adorable, awesome. Well, that made me think of another game of throne, uh, quote that I wanted to bring up, which is never believe a thing simply because you want to believe.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought about this. Now I have to think about what I thought about this. Say that, oh, I know where. I know where it led me. Okay, because I talk cognitive behavioral therapy is all about thoughts.
Speaker 2:Right, so we have like 6,000 thoughts a day, which is six or 8,000. It's a huge number of thoughts that just rattle through your little brain and guess what? You couldn't tell me the 6,000 thoughts you had today. Right, because we filter our thoughts. But the challenge is we use a lot of negative filtering. So this is actually a fascinating discussion, I think so if you, there's like 14 cognitive distortions that really color the way that we we think, we think, because I think a lot of times we think our thoughts are reality when in fact they're not.
Speaker 2:But thoughts do create an emotion for us. It's just the mechanism in which we challenge our thoughts and if you happen to have depression or anxiety, that also makes the filter for your thoughts very difficult. So there's like all or nothing thinking, so everything's good or bad, right. Then you snag the thoughts that basically prove that what you were thinking is right. So there's a whole body of cognitive behavioral therapy is a very big deal because it basically says read your quote again um, never believe a thing simply because you want to believe it exactly.
Speaker 1:So you could just replace thing with thought you want to believe it Exactly.
Speaker 2:So you could just replace thing with thought. You have to actually find proof that that thought is real. You have to find proof that that thing is real, and I think that's part of what life is about. You can tell yourself a lot of really awful things. You know, like I think one of the ways we always, often try to motivate ourselves is by being mean, like I mean, like you idiot, why did you do that?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's just a thought, but if you think it's real that you're an idiot, like that's what you're going to say and those are the thoughts you're going to catch, the ones that prove that you made a bad choice, or you're lazy, or that you're unmotivated. So you really have to filter your thoughts with other things. You could run through the 14. It's one of my favorite things. There's a little test I can you can do if you want. It's like a personality test, but it helps you identify the 14 underlying thoughts.
Speaker 1:You can do it right now, because are you ever like falling asleep and you have these weird thoughts like almost like you're half sleeping and you're like in a different place? Or like sometimes I can't even remember what I was thinking when it was like so weird, so out there and it's like where is this coming from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 6,000 thoughts is a lot, yeah and a lot of them are super random and they mean nothing.
Speaker 1:They don't even make sense, like you want, like our brains are just this, these antennas that are just like pulling thought with our senses. Yeah, I think you said that last time, or somebody did like, because I said where do our thoughts come from?
Speaker 2:like our senses, like, so I get that more now so if you have like negative, underlying negative filters, which most people do, your underlying negative filter might be that everything is supposed to be fair, so you're going to catch you're probably going to catch thoughts that prove that everything's not fair Right, or if you're, or that you have to be perfect and good at everything or you aren't loved as much, you're going to find the things your brain is going to you're going to catch those thoughts that go like see, I screwed that up, so I'm not perfect and therefore I'm not that lovable. Or like why would anyone like me if I'm just constantly making the same mistake over?
Speaker 1:and over. So how do you change those thoughts you?
Speaker 2:first of all, this is the hardest part and it takes a while. Is you just catch them you? First of all, this is the hardest part, and it takes a while is you just catch them and you test them and you figure out if they're matching your filter and if they are, you challenge them, just like Lily challenged me the other day and said you've been running since March and we were running a block at a time at that point and you're complaining. You just ran another half marathon Like mom, let's challenge that it was super helpful.
Speaker 1:That's why it's so important to talk things out with people To get some perspective. They totally agree. Yeah, because even you, the therapist, like daughter, put you in your place.
Speaker 2:She did, she did. I remember right where she said it it was almost to McGregor. And by the time I got back to where I was like, oh my gosh, she's right. Why am I being so negative right now? Not fair, not fair to myself, not fair to my progress? And a really good way to start self-sabotaging is to grab those thoughts and start to believe them. Like I'm just never going to be good at running again, I'm never going to be able to run fast, I'm never going to have a run that doesn't feel hard, so I might as well quit, and I think like a lot of times. So the first step is just to notice your thoughts. Notice your thoughts and also notice the emotions that connect with your thoughts, and it's really way harder to do than you think.
Speaker 1:Evolutionary wise. Why do you think we have thoughts like that?
Speaker 2:I think some I mean I think a lot of our negative filters are to protect us. They're either to protect us or keep us motivated, but a lot of them are like self-defeating and they don't make us better. I think we just have a lot of input as well. So, like meditating reduces the amount of thoughts that are just whizzing by you and creating. I've ever been scrolling and you don't remember what you read, but you have the emotion left over. You're like what am I upset about? You, like what bothered me? And then you literally have to scroll back and you're like oh yeah, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I do that all the time like throughout the day, like it's an afternoon thing where I'll check myself and be like oh yeah, I'm not happy about something, but what was it that I wasn't happy about?
Speaker 2:And then I have to like, yeah, think it out and be like oh yeah, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, and maybe it doesn't like ick that you have to attend to or you have to do something about, but a lot of times it's just something that got in there and just upset your peace or like even if I just quick look at a text without opening it and then move on to something else and it's like I'll know that I had a text that upset me before I look at it again to see what it said. Like because you can just recognize the feeling without even knowing what it is yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Like anyone, anytime someone goes just wondering if we can talk later. Like no, we're going to need to talk now.
Speaker 1:Veda's done that to me before. One time. I was like sick for like a day. You were like this was a while ago. You're like, hey, can we talk today? This was right when you first started at the pool.
Speaker 2:I will hot call you if you text me.
Speaker 1:I couldn't breathe.
Speaker 2:I was like I will hot call you. I will just push talk right now. I made you panic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then when I saw you, like the next day or two, you're like no, I just want to chat and I'm like, okay, but so then it's on me Like there's. This is a exact example of sorry, you triggered me and that's showed me where I'm not free, right. Other people Do not be sorry, you did nothing wrong.
Speaker 2:Other people's expectations.
Speaker 1:People do it to me all the time. It's me, it's me letting it happen to me.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a part of you right. It's your inner judgment. It's your inner judge.
Speaker 1:Like like inner thinking I was just it feels like almost insecurity in a way. Yeah, like why? I mean I think it goes along with imposter syndrome and everything.
Speaker 2:Not wanting to be in trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just don't Not wanting to be found. Yeah, I think that I am wrong or I am bad, but why?
Speaker 2:So many reasons or not wanting to be found out or judged yeah or not wanting to be unaware of something you did that hurt someone, or maybe offended someone or didn't hit right. Mm-hmm, I try to do it all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just thought you were going to quit, or something. No, nope.
Speaker 2:I will truly like if someone were to text me like can we talk? I'd just be like right now, yeah, what's up For sure, let's go. Like please do not. You cannot be hanging like that. That's not okay, right.
Speaker 1:I will not accept that.
Speaker 2:I will not accept that. I'm okay if it's two in the morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean Katie Jones does it to me.
Speaker 2:She'll be like oh, we have, are you breaking up with me? Yeah Right, that's funny, I think, disasterizing. I mean there's a million examples. Well, there's another thing.
Speaker 1:I could be addicted to the drama Because I mean, I think I'm addicted to. Like my family's really big and we're all really close and like I've been noticing that, like when things are finally good with one person that I thought things weren't good with, but then I see them and I'm like, oh, things are great, yeah. Then, like I'll find drama with another person and it's like am I addicted to this drama? Because everything's fine. Well, I think addict.
Speaker 2:I mean you might just be more in tune with everyone, being okay. Especially when you have a big family, there's always something to do.
Speaker 1:I want everybody to be happy and I want everybody to like me Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want everybody to be happy and I want everybody to like me, right? Yeah, that's like that perfection, people-pleasing cluster. I think some of it just goes away when you get old and tired.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. You just really, I think, letting go too, not feeling so responsible for everybody's last opinion and feeling, well, that's a codependent, like I had heard codependence for a few years before I finally heard an explanation of it that I liked, and it was when, because it's really negative. It is. It has a lot of negative connotations.
Speaker 1:Right and how I heard it was when you are only okay if everybody else is okay. That's codependence. And I'm like, oh, I didn't think, because I'm so independent and I've always lived by myself or with James, like I thought I wasn't codependent, because I thought that would mean like you need somebody. But no, I do need to make sure everybody around me is okay. Like my body feels on fire unless everybody is okay. And that again, though, that's where I'm not free. Like could I imagine, imagine if I could go a whole day without worrying, if everybody else was okay? And who decided it was my job? Like who do I think I am Jesus? Like grow up bitch.
Speaker 2:But what was I mean? What was your role in your family? That's always a big question.
Speaker 1:The baby? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Oh hello, like my job was was like to be the little clown and like the little cutie and like the little sunshine, because I didn't. They were usually like a you know, worrying about bigger older people problems, so I would just like come in and put on a show and then everybody was like, oh, that's great. So I think I you get an inflated sense of the fact that you can make this whole room of like stressed out adults happy for five minutes. That's a a big job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if that was me so much, but my whole family is really funny. So I mean I like, and we all have the same sense of humor. So I think, yeah, and I know that's why people, even in my family, like miss when I drink, because they're like you were really entertaining and I'm like I know I was really cool, but can you love me for other reasons? Now you know what I mean. Yeah, and I mean I think that's probably why I'm so self-aware of this anxiety I have now is because when I drank almost every day, I never you didn't feel anything.
Speaker 1:I never had any of that anxiety, so now it's like full blown. Haven't dealt with it since I was 18 and started drinking Right.
Speaker 2:Right so Right right.
Speaker 1:So your self-awareness has probably increased but, so has your anxiety about your own self-awareness, because even from back then I was like the planner, like I would get everybody together once a month in the family to go out for prime rub or, like you know, I was always the one making decisions in the family, like because they say, I'm the bossy one too we talked about that in our first episode, so I was boss, bossy.
Speaker 1:And now that I don't drink and I'm bossy, I think everybody's like this bitch is annoying, like oh if I was drunk and bossy, it was like fine, you know like, and now I'm just bossy, I don't have anything else about my personality. That's enjoyable not true.
Speaker 2:It's first girl syndrome, though you have all brothers, so you are essentially the first girl and they have a lot of weight on their shoulders, they have a lot of things to do. They have a lot of like ordering and organizing and responsibility for everybody around them. It's little mother syndrome, it's a whole thing. There's a lot of pressure in that space.
Speaker 2:Good, to know yeah, that's the thing I remember my first master's program. The professor was like raise your hand if you are a first girl, If you're a girl whose sibling is more than seven years older than you. There was a third one, so that's best for me.
Speaker 2:Or an only girl, right. And then I was like, because everyone was raising their hands, I'm like, well, that's not me. And then she's like, unless you're seven, like is your next sibling seven years older? And I was like, yep, so you kind of like get the first only baby, you get every role when you're, when you have a big age spread?
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I'm eight years younger than my closest sibling. Me too, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's nice you get to be well-rounded, but I think it causes this responsibility, this ridiculous amount of awareness that you just got to let go, you just have to ramble on. I think that's another reason I like that song, because I like the idea of leaving things in the past. Otherwise, how heavy is that to carry?
Speaker 2:In fact, I was home this weekend and we have a lot of family visiting a lot and I was listening to this conversation that I really probably earlier in my life would have tried to interject and help other people understand what other people are saying and make sure everybody was comfortable. And I don't know if I'm just tired or old. But I thought, yeah, I don't have to fix any part of this conversation, I don't care to. I don't care to fix any part of this conversation, I don't care to, I don't care to make sure these two people understood each other, I don't care if she didn't get enough to say or didn't have enough time to talk. Like it's uncomfortable. I don't love it, especially when it's actually my job to sit and like listen to dynamics all day. But at one point I was just kind of bored and I just got up and went and did other things.
Speaker 1:Honestly, that's a huge thing for me since I quit drinking. When I drank, I was like, oh my god, no, you need to know my perspective. There's nothing more important than you knowing my perspective. And like I had to get in everything. And now I'm like I don't need to add to that conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have not been drinking. I'm also much quieter than I normally am, which?
Speaker 1:I mean is sad and I wonder if I'd never drank. I don't know if it's sad.
Speaker 2:I think it's bossy and annoying, like how I can be when I drink yeah, me too.
Speaker 1:I'm like who wants to hear that? But everybody seems to like me better when I was that way, so I don't know.
Speaker 2:I really like the ability to sort of like shrink out of the I think I have a tendency to I don't really. It's like you can be an observer now which you learn more.
Speaker 1:Huge fan.
Speaker 2:You can also sneak away and like go read a book. I was not reacting to how you are when you drink. I was reacting to the fact that you're not drinking. Yes, I'm not drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought maybe you're reacting to. You feel the same way not drinking you. Or like yeah, jen, you're a real freaking loud, no, you know that's not why I was like, oh my god, yeah, no, I um I mean, you were never a big drinker, but I think I have I thought maybe you were 18 too.
Speaker 1:I also like don't say as much when I'm not drinking, don't insert as much, but yeah I had such a short stint of drinking that. I don't even think I had a personality which is so my favorite thing about your generation?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's your generation or just like the kids that. I know in your generation no, all of them drinking is not a thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, they drink occasionally, but but I've seen, I've heard both sides, because there's lower teen pregnancy, there's's less drinking, there's less drugs, but also so much more isolation because the video games and the internet and scrolling and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and mental health.
Speaker 1:I think the suicide rates are up a lot, it's great that the kids are drinking less, but also your kids and James and Veda aren't? I mean, james plays a lot of video games, but he's not unhealthy about it, he just doesn't drink because he said he'd just rather play video games or be out doing something with his friends and he's just not into it. I mean, I feel like he might drink once a month, every couple months. He's 20 years old. When I was 20 years old, I was drinking every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was drinking too much when I was 20, for sure. Yeah, I can't relate. I spent a whole summer drunk once when I had to work at this welding factory that if Shannon was here we would talk about. You worked there too. Heck, yeah, I didn't know that we all worked there at some point.
Speaker 2:It was where we'd all land when we needed a job. But I hated the work because it was you know, it was like parts work. So you just did the same thing all day, every day, all day, every day, all day, every day, and it was just not. My brain doesn't work that way. I was, I was dying, I was bored, it was just. It just was drinking a lot at night.
Speaker 1:I worked in a factory too. It was tough. I had to make up a whole. I had to make things up in my head, stories about the people. Like some of the people, I'd be like, oh, okay, this is what they do. Or I mean this other girl we would like. And then we'd pretend like we're on um punked Ashton Kutcher's show. Um, we'd be like, okay, there's got to be cameras in here, like punkiness. There's no way these people are real life. There's no way this is real. You know.
Speaker 2:So people were so odd, like underground people yeah, I did a lot of like racing, like I like to race my table mate to make fit to go faster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean some of it was fun, like I like I could zone away, like making I think I would make um valentine's day cards, because you're like putting it in the machine and like I don't know.
Speaker 2:some parts of it were fun but to like stay, stay, in reality I had to make up, I just remember staying out this big door that was open all the time, into this beautiful field and the sun was so pretty and all I could ever think was I have to get out of here. I would get so distracted.
Speaker 2:I have to get out of here, so bad, I have to get out of here so much I have to leave. I ago it was so mindless, yeah, yeah, but now I think maybe a mindless job, maybe someplace. I didn't think because in therapy you have a lot of I mean you can't, then you're on the opposite end of it, right like so involved.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's why you're like running now. Did you run when you worked at the factory?
Speaker 2:I started running that summer. That is the summer I started running. Yep, because I was not a runner. In high school, I was a swimmer, and a synchronized swimmer Because, yeah, I mean, I'd see being a therapist, running being like a really healthy. Yeah, I mean, therapy is not just an average conversation. You really have to be in tune with what your patient is saying and to be attentive.
Speaker 2:You can't just zone out, you can't miss the important stuff. They get 45 minutes to an hour to say their piece and you really just can't be checked out. It's important to be at your best and rested, and and so I mean, as therapists, that's what we talk you have to take care of yourself. It's really what you owe your clients.
Speaker 2:So yeah yeah, no kidding, sleep, being breasted and like truly being in. You can't be in a good place all the time. We're humans as well, so you have to bake in good self-care and vacations and rest and learning your boundaries so that you're not taking home stuff that you can't and is not yours to solve.
Speaker 2:So I came from a really task oriented part of social work. Hospital social work was very much about solving the immediate problem, like getting the bed, getting the nursing home bed, getting the person a ride, finding housing and supports, and there was always like a task to be done. And that's not what therapy is about. You do not get to solve anything in like one session. Sometimes I like it when patients have like a thing they're trying to figure out. I'm like, oh, we get to problem solve today that's so fun.
Speaker 2:We can, you know, shoot a message to this provider and get you in here and like, I like doing that fun kind of like check mark kind of work. But that that is not what therapy is, because otherwise, yeah, it's not a check sheet.
Speaker 2:No, it's like ongoing, it's forever. It is. I mean it's a process for sure. I mean, if yeah, it's a process, so then like, little wins are a big deal when you see changes in patients or they bring you wins that they had, and it is not because of you, it is because of them. But that's what you have to love. You have to love human growth. You don't love that. You were like what are you in their story?
Speaker 2:honestly, You're just a conduit for their own thoughts, like that's all therapy really is is being just a backboard, like you're not the expert in the room. Yes, you have tools and you understand things about the human psyche and you have interventions that you can use and you can encourage people and you can see things from a different perspective than they can, but they're doing the work. They're the one that it matters to. They're the one that it's hard for. So I think my biggest pet peeve in the therapy world is like egos or advising or being the boss.
Speaker 2:I always tell my patients like we're in a canoe but you're paddling. I'm in the front and I'm going to just mention, like we might go over and walk. I see a waterfall. I don't know what you want to do about that. Like here's a couple things we could do, but you're going to do whatever you want because I'm going to paddle. I'm going to do what you tell me to do. I'm not going to tell you what to do. That's not what I'm there for. I would burn out tomorrow if.
Speaker 2:That's a great analogy.
Speaker 1:If I wanted my patience.
Speaker 2:You had to take it all on. You'll be like all right, I guess we're going to hit the rock. But the problem is, if they hit the rock, I'm already on the shore being like you hit a rock and they're like shit, we're sinking. I'm like I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like perfect balance. You have to be in where, like, you're not taking it on, but you're like genuinely care about them so much they care.
Speaker 2:You care that they want to be motivated.
Speaker 2:You care that you might have a nugget that hits just right. Um, so you learned this when I was really young and this it was called motivational interviewing and I was, thank God, not a 24 year old therapist. That's what I intended to be. I would have burned out by the time I was 26, because I would like come in and think, oh my gosh, I can just like, I can just tell you all the things I know, and then you will totally want to do the thing that I'm telling you, and that is not how that works at all. So I went to this training. That was like you meet people where they're at and you've you ask them how much they're willing to do and then you let them do that. That's. You're not some great expert. That just told them something they never knew before. People know a lot of things and it's just if you can help them get activated to do those things so that's my theory.
Speaker 1:That's why I hope I can stay in this for a while yeah, my strategy with friends right now, when they're going through something, is just like keeping my mouth shut and holding space for them for as long as I can and not asking them how I can help, because that's decision fatigue I mean sometimes, like I have said to people, sometimes I say like let me know how I can support you, because that was our first episode.
Speaker 1:I learned so much about how okay I have to ask for support, the way I want to be supported I can't just expect everybody to know how but also, like Veda had said, you know, not too much, not putting it all on them, like tell me how you want to be supported, because then they have to make that decision. So I just keep my mouth shut as long as I possibly can until okay.
Speaker 1:I'm finally going to say one thing of advice, because I love giving advice, but I think advice, unsolicited advice, is criticism, and that rings through my head too. So I try really hard to only say one thing, otherwise just be holding the space.
Speaker 2:If they ask me for advice, then I can say more you know, yeah, and then make sure you have some kind of like release felt, because eventually, like you could blow up Like it's a thing, like if we don't have a place to get our advice giving out. I work really hard on not giving my kids advice, because I was really advicey and I thought I wasn't and they were like, oh my gosh, stop, like they're so good at telling me what not to do, which is really helpful because, I was probably gonna do that I was definitely gonna do that thing.
Speaker 2:I was gonna do that thing where I gave advice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not helpful. It's not what they're like. It's hard to train yourself to not do that.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's really hard, Super Like I'm like hold my breath, hold my breath.
Speaker 2:And I think another thing you're explaining is the difference between being like aggressive and assertive and finding that balance where you can not be aggressive and not be just a total wallflower, where you never say how you feel, but like finding enough emotional balance to say, oh, like I might not exactly agree with that, but I also have no need to make you agree with me. So let's just like neutral, let's be neutral about my opinion about you or your opinion about me, like neutrality is important, but it's also important to be able to say and I, I think this, I disagree with you about that, but I'm not mad about it. And I fail at this, by the way, I hope I would. Would like to, for the record, say like I can be a huge failure. I can get like spicy, but not drinking helps me, because when my filter's off I will get sassier. I will say things more firmly than I mean to and.
Speaker 2:I don't like that. It's gross.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, awesome, okay, well, again we got to get to trivia. Oh, trivia time, wednesday's been our thing, are we back?
Speaker 2:We're back at trivia, so he's home. All right, barry? Well, good luck, we're coming in hot. I won last time. You're always with a winning team.
Speaker 1:No, I've only won once and that was because I had given the trivia question earlier that week. What was it? The question was like how many fathers are in um the United States?
Speaker 1:Because it was father's day that Sunday, so that Monday morning I did that question and the answer was like 17.1 million. And that was the final question at trivia, like where you bet we had already bet everything, yeah. Then the question comes out. I scream and my whole team is like you've, you've led us astray like three times and given us the wrong answer, and now we're gonna believe you.
Speaker 2:and I'm like I swear get me on this one, let me, let me have it and we won.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's funny and now. Yeah, now we have a couple people come, a couple ringers come in. So'm going to get Pat from our wood shop and Jodi said she has a ringer too. So ringers.
Speaker 2:There's probably some hard teams there.
Speaker 1:Well, like I always share on Facebook, like anything, but I'm like I'm not sharing because the place is too small to have too many people show up and I'm on a table so I'm like making everybody. I'm like I'm doing a podcast, so other people have to get the table for me Just try to say yeah, yep, so we got 10 minutes Ramp it up.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming on, thanks for having me.