Supernaut
Supernaut is a podcast about spirituality, sobriety, and the spectrum of self. Hosted by Beth Kelling, this show explores what it means to seek clarity, connection, and personal truth in a world that rarely slows down.
Since beginning her sobriety journey in 2020, Beth has been diving deeper into spiritual practices, emotional honesty, and all the beautiful, messy layers of identity.
Each episode opens the door to conversations about healing, growth, creativity, intuition, and everything in between — because who we are isn’t fixed, it’s a spectrum.
Beth will be joined by guests who share their own stories, perspectives, and spiritual paths — offering insight, inspiration, and the occasional cosmic detour.
Whether you’re sober-curious, spiritually inclined, or just looking to feel a little more human, you’re in the right place
Supernaut
Shadows to Strength: Hope After Breakdown
What happens when your mind betrays you at the height of your life? Cristina never expected to face a devastating mental health crisis at 40, yet that's exactly what happened when anxiety and depression crashed into her world like a tidal wave.
Cristina's raw, powerful story unfolds as she describes the terrifying physical and emotional symptoms that signaled her breakdown – morning anxiety so severe it caused vomiting, dramatic weight loss, and the inability to function at home despite maintaining appearances at work. The contrast between her external composure and internal chaos highlights the invisible nature of mental illness that so many suffer with silently.
Through her journey, we discover the critical elements that ultimately led to her healing: finding the right medication through innovative DNA testing, connecting with a skilled therapist who introduced her to EMDR therapy, and the unwavering support of her husband who intuitively knew exactly what she needed without being asked. Her story beautifully illustrates how proper mental health treatment is no different than addressing any other medical condition – the brain deserves the same care as every other organ.
The heart of this conversation centers around hope – not as a fleeting emotion, but as a lifeline that Cristina clung to during her darkest moments. "You're not alone," she heard in her most vulnerable state, words that carried her through until she found the right treatment. Now, years later, Christina reflects on how this difficult chapter transformed her life for the better, strengthening her marriage, teaching her children about mental health, and giving her purpose in helping others navigate similar struggles.
Listen in as Christina shares the practical tools that helped her recover, the spiritual insights that sustained her, and the powerful message that continues to guide her life: there is always hope, even when you can't see it yet. Her story reminds us that our darkest winters eventually give way to summer – and sometimes our greatest challenges become our most meaningful opportunities to grow.
0:00 Meeting Christina and Her Journey
9:44 Discovering Mental Health Struggles
16:55 The Breakdown at 40
25:08 Finding the Right Treatment
34:39 The Power of Support Systems
42:07 Exploring the Concept of Hope
48:32 How Others See Christina
Welcome to Supernot, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of self. Today, my guest is Christina Zortman. I'm excited to get to know her more and hear about her journey with mental illness, faith, her experience of having a nervous breakdown at 40, and where hope fits into all of it. Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, so I asked you to pick a song for us to listen to together first. What song did you pick?
Speaker 2:True Colors by Cyndi Lauper. I just that song means a lot to me. It was a part of our wedding when Jesse and I got married, but it also really just resonates with how people need to be in this world. I mean, just be who you are and know that there's always somebody in your corner and there's always somebody there to support you and encourage you and be whatever you need them to be.
Speaker 1:What do you think when you're at that moment where you don't feel like there is anybody supporting you, at that moment where you don't feel like there is anybody supporting?
Speaker 2:you Well, in my darkest days I had people that supported me, so I know now that even when you go through those trials and tribulations, those same people will be there for you. You have to make it your want and know that the hope is there, and know that the hope is there. And there's so many. Even people that you hardly know were reaching out to me when they noticed that there were some changes that were happening in my life. And whether you use them for that or you turn to them for anything is one thing, but knowing that there's so many people out there that they really do care for you. And it's important that you're here. I mean you're here for a reason and it's important that they're here too.
Speaker 1:So it's just so funny in those moments where, like sometimes you can't think of anybody.
Speaker 2:You're like they don't love me. They don't love me, you know.
Speaker 1:but then once you get out of it, you're like, oh my gosh they love me so much. But in that moment it's just like you got to think of those times. Maybe start journaling you know when people have been there for you. Oh, I heard on a podcast this last week that you should ask like is this true? Can I? Like, if you're thinking nobody's supporting me, if you're thinking of a specific person, is this true? You might still think, yeah, it's true. But like? Can you be 100% positive?
Speaker 1:that they're feeling that way about you Like most of the time, it's like no. So I've been asking myself that this week of like, when I start to think, oh, they gave me that look or they did whatever, I'm like, okay. Am I 100% positive that look was about me and something that I did Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yep, and it's almost. The older I get, the easier it is for me to look at things that way. Um, obviously, in my younger years you're always thinking somebody's thinking this about you, or talking about you, or doing this behind your back or whatever. And the older I get and now with my children and grandchildren, and it's just, it's not. That's not what's happening. That's not what's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And yeah, like you said, getting older just comes with more confidence and everything. And yeah, I'm like six months to I'm 40 and I've always heard like 30s are better than 20s, 40s are better. So, like I'm ready to get there, I don't are better. So, like I'm ready to get there, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm closing in on 50. So it's now that I'm through my 40s. Just about all the way through my 40s, I'm like, yeah, they weren't too bad after my little. I wouldn't consider it little and it hadn't actually been diagnosed as a nervous breakdown, but I truly believe it was. I mean, it was yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll start from wherever you're ready to start from. Okay.
Speaker 2:So after my second son, I went through a little bit of a mental health, just postpartum, mainly postpartum Prescribed Lexapro at that time and I had two babies at this point. One was 22 months and the other one was newborn and I was like no, I can't. It was making me feel weird and dizzy and tired and I'm like, no, I have to be present for my babies. So it was a while before I went on anything else and probably mid to late twenties I was going through some things at home and um with my first husband and it was I just needed something. So I went on Paxil and that did what it needed to do for the time being. Closing in on 40, I um wanted to.
Speaker 2:Well, actually, after my third son, I was in my late 30s and we were going through some things. No, second husband, his dad, had been diagnosed with cancer and he was very ill and there were a lot of things that were going on at that time and that's kind of what I was chalking it up to and ended up having like really bad anxiety. Well, I went to work the next day and I had already been working at at this place for quite some time and it was a great, great place for me to be. Um, and I just went into my supervisor's office and I just was broke down and I'm like I can't, like I just can't, I can't do this.
Speaker 2:Like that morning did you think that was going?
Speaker 1:to happen, or it was kind of instant it was.
Speaker 2:It was through the weekend, so like that Sunday and to Monday. I'm like there is something wrong. So at that time they again prescribed Paxil and that was fine. That was just enough for the time being, and I didn't do therapy or anything at that time. I was still checking it up to postpartum, which it was, but there was a lot of other things that were coming in at that same time as well that were that was also affecting me and I didn't even realize it at the time. So that process was fine, continued working where I was for quite some time. That process was fine continued working where I was for quite some time, closing in on 40, I decided I was going to wean off of Paxil and I was just going to go into my 40s and I was going to do this and be okay. And I was for a little while, weaned, successfully, turned 40, things were fine.
Speaker 2:And then there were some other things that had happened within my family and and it just I left the bank where I had been working for 12 and a half years, and why I would have even thought to leave it at that time? It it was something else was going on. I didn't, I didn't even think of it, I didn't think that there was something else inside of me that was happening mentally, emotionally. It just I just left. I left, I found another job that was going fine, and then it just it hit me like a ton of bricks, couldn't function at home, would wake up with anxiety to the point where I was vomiting in the morning, couldn't? I wasn't there for my kids, and I know I wasn't there for my kids. I'm so fortunate that my husband was as supportive and encouraging at that time I mean, he always is, but more so at that time when I truly, truly needed him to be. There was. I could get up and got ready for work because I knew that that's what I needed to do, and throughout the day work was fine. But as soon as it was and I was still having anxiety attacks at that time as well Going to therapy I didn't quite find the right therapist at that time Went to the doctor.
Speaker 2:They prescribed Celexa, um and then also the doctor that I had seen a blessing at the time. Um had also done the DNA swab, the, the cheek swab. Well, I had been on Celexa for six weeks and I just kept telling myself it's going to get better. It's going to get better, it's going to get better. Takes about six weeks for it and I was still not getting any relief at all. Um, to the point where there was one evening my older boys were home and they stayed home with, with our youngest and I had we I had to go to the hospital cause I could not, I couldn't, I couldn't get out of it, I couldn't even relax, I couldn't. It was, it was awful. Um.
Speaker 2:So eventually after that, I ended up going to the right therapist Um, amazing, and I will go to him periodically still now found the right doctor with the right prescription and I started really going to church faithfully and I believed, I always believed, rededicated myself then, after my whole journey, and started going to Living Hope Church and at that time, pastor Steve still the pastor there. He's amazing, but Pastor Steve, he would bring up divinity all the time. It's divine intervention that you're here. You're here for a reason. It's divinity. I finally found the doctor that I prescribed, with what I'm on now, and soon as she walks in, she's like well, on now, and soon as she walks in, she's like well, it's divinity that you're here, like it's, it's a divine appointment that you're here and I'm thinking okay, this is because at this point I'm still on the Celexa and, um, she's like she found the right, the right med for me and I continued to do therapy and within about three days from being on that new medication, I was starting to feel like myself again.
Speaker 2:But during that time it was so dark, it was so difficult. You know you're questioning yourself. You're questioning are you doing the right things for your kids? I mean, there were times that I was thinking about harm and how can I do this without my kids knowing or being affected? And there's no way you can do that. There's no way. So I just kept praying and praying, and praying. I'm like there's gotta be hope, there's hope, I know there's hope. So I just did not give up the hope and I heard one time that's the only time I've ever heard the Holy Spirit, but it was at a time when I was completely vulnerable and just by myself, laying in bed.
Speaker 2:Still, my husband had taken our son to daycare and I was still laying in bed and I just started crying and he came back in before he left and he's like are you okay? And I said, yeah, I'm good, I know I'm going to be okay. I just knew I was going to be okay because he told me that you're not alone. You're not alone and you there's hope and you're just. You're not alone. That's all I needed to hear was I wasn't alone, because there's times when you feel so alone, you feel like you're the only one that's going through what you're going through and experiencing. But you're not. There's so many other people that experience the same things on many different levels, but and there's people there that you can turn to and there's people out there that will help you in any way.
Speaker 2:I just ended up finding the right like I said, the right doctor at the time, and she found the right med for me. I went back three weeks later to see her for a follow-up and she walked in and she just was shocked. She said I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. When I first saw you, I hating. I had anxiety when I walked in the door because I had so much anxiety built up and it was um, anxiety brought on by depression. So we had to get to the root of the reason why I was depressed and the reason why I was going through the things I was that brought out that anxiety. It's just the way your body is just trying to get rid of it.
Speaker 2:How am I going to get rid of the depression? I mean, from the outside I seemed happy and everything was fine, and then I started making these changes that made no sense, like leaving a job that I had been at for 12 and a half years and that stability and other than that I mean there were some other things, but nothing major like that that was. The main thing was that I left that job. And I'm thinking why would you do that?
Speaker 2:I just found some way that I was unhappy there, whether I made it up, whether I was thinking it in my mind, I mean, it really wasn't anything that had been done to me, it was just and maybe it was just that I needed a change. And thank goodness for that, because if I hadn't gone through that and hadn't experienced the anxiety and the things that I had experienced, I would not be where I am today, where, hopefully, I can reach out to somebody and be there for them. I just want to help in some way. How can I get my story out there so people know that they're not alone? They're not alone and there is so much hope, there's so much hope.
Speaker 1:What did it feel like in those moments where, like so you said work would go okay, and then you'd get home and it would just hit you Like is it racing thoughts? Is it bad thoughts?
Speaker 2:It wasn't even necessarily the racing thoughts, it was more. I mean, there was just this feeling in the pit of my stomach. I couldn't get rid of it Like I could not. I was having anxiety attacks, panic attacks constantly at home. I mean, in like three months I lost 35 pounds. If that, if even in three months I couldn't eat, couldn't keep anything down, and then the first thing I did in the morning was vomit because I was so anxious, so anxious. And then I mean, obviously there were thoughts of self-harm or thoughts of harming others, or just anything at that. And then I would actually rationalize okay, so if I did this, would this person still be my friend, or would this person still love me if I did that, if I did that to myself, or whatever it was. And then I knew that they wouldn't have faith in me or they wouldn't trust me again. And those were some of the things that, thankfully, talked me down. So there was a lot of that. There was a lot of that.
Speaker 2:The first therapist I went to, she's like okay, when you wake up in the morning, just pray and put your hands on your stomach and try and push it out. And I did that. I did that every day, diligently. I did, I researched, how can I, how can I do this? So I was so into what I was going through I couldn't put my phone down, like I was constantly trying how long is it going to take before Celexa starts to help me? Trying, how long is it going to take before Selexa starts to help me? How long is it going to take for this? How, when am I going to stop feeling like this? And I just kept. It was six weeks, six weeks, six weeks, six weeks hit and it didn't work. It didn't happen it's because I wasn't on the right med and I'm so thankful that the doctor I had seen right away in the beginning had done that cheek swab, because had she not, we wouldn't have discovered that. We would have probably gone down a rabbit hole of testing other drugs, adding drugs to what I was on. I did not want that Like.
Speaker 2:I went back to see the doctor after a few weeks in. I said I'm not getting any relief and that doctor wanted to prescribe more and I'm like something else to enhance this and I'm like, no, no, no. I said I'll, I'll fill it, but I did not take one of those drugs. I flushed it down the toilet as soon as I got home and it just continued on the Celexa as much as I could. They had me on Ativan to take the edge off, and there were times that that didn't even work. It was, it was just awful. And then, finally, when I did make it to that doctor's appointment, I was.
Speaker 2:I just kept telling myself I just have to make it to March. March, march is my doctor's appointment and I'm going to see this doctor and she's going to. And at that time my results had come back and she pulled up my chart and she says well, celexa is definitely not a good drug for you. It doesn't work with my DNA, doesn't do the things that it's supposed to do. So at that time she prescribed a Fexor and she said this is not a drug that I would normally prescribe, but this is a drug that works really well with your DNA.
Speaker 2:So we did it and I'm not even kidding, it was, it was amazing. And she said that to me. She said you will start to feel like yourself again and I did. It was incredible. It was incredible. You just have to. There's doctors out there that specialize with mental health and women's mental health, and there's um legacy here in town. That's where my therapist is and just amazing, absolutely amazing. We did EMDR, which is also a type of therapy that it was absolutely amazing, absolutely amazing. Um it, it was hard, it was it was hard, but it was. It's incredible what the brain does. You don't even realize what it's doing at the time and it's it's, it's insane.
Speaker 1:It's so great I had called to make an appointment for that one time and they said they, they wanted me to pick a certain traumatic experience and I didn't know what to do with that.
Speaker 2:So so I didn't start doing EMDR until after I had seen my therapist for a couple of times, and it was brought up to me at that time. Um, he had, he had said I feel like you're a candidate for EMDR. So it was after the first few times that I had seen him, and then we had discussed some events that I had remembered from way back and, um, that was what we used. So, yep, okay, it was so cool, it's, it's, it was cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I saw him another three, four times after that and he's like, wow, I mean, yeah, and he worked really closely with Janet Wilkinson was the doctor I had seen when I was prescribed the right med and some other doctors that I had seen that he was working very closely with at the time Um, and just specializing in mental health and women's mental health. And looking back on it now, it was probably a little perimenopausal as well. I mean, you know, all those things can cause the anxiety, but there was a reason why it came to the forefront when it did and there was a reason why I had to go back and tackle some of those things at that time and I'm so, so fortunate and happy that I did that at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so many good things in this, like there there is finding the right therapist, as I'm on my third or fourth since becoming an adult, and this one, I think, finally gets it Like I've only had two or three sessions, third ones maybe tomorrow. Yeah, but yeah, such a such a game changer. And then finding the right medication too. Today I had an ADHD assessment, uh-huh, and I was so believing that I was going to be positive for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I wasn't yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's been a really rough day, because now where do I go?
Speaker 2:What do I start Cause?
Speaker 1:they say like a lot of these symptoms can be from anxiety. So, but it's overwhelming. So, um, but this gives me so much hope.
Speaker 2:I'm so. I'm glad Cause that's really what I wanted and there's so many I mean the first six months that I was really dealing with it um, I would go to church and I would. Just, I went by myself because it was something that I had to do on my own. I had to get the help that I needed and, in order for me to be there for my family, be the right mom, wife, employee, daughter, sister, anything I needed to get to the root of what was going on and I, I wanted to do these things on my own and, um, plus, it gave me worth at that time. It helped me feel more worth.
Speaker 2:Um, so every Sunday I would go to church and I would ball. I would just sit there and ball. And there was one Sunday that and I knew people that went there and, um, some very good family friends from when I was younger and went there and I just sat, I, they were all gone and I just sat in the pew one Sunday and one of one of my friends she still goes to that church and she came over and she said I just feel like there's something. There's something bothering you, and at this time I had started the new medication she didn't know anything about at this time. I had started the new medication. She didn't know anything about my journey.
Speaker 2:I had started the new medication, but I was only like a, I was only like a day in and she just asked. She said can I put my hands on you? And I said, please, I mean, and I just was still weeping, I wasn't ready to go home yet, there was still things I needed to leave there. And I just sat there and was bawling and she put her hands on me and I don't even remember what she said. She just prayed. She just prayed for peace and hope.
Speaker 2:There's that word again, but hope it. There's a lot in that word and there needs to be more of that in this world. There needs to be a lot more of that. And, um, we have some other mental illness in our family and things like that. So I just knew that if there was anything I could do, I was going to try and help anybody else that could potentially go through, even if they just needed a shoulder, just a shoulder, just somebody to talk to. Obviously, I'm not licensed, I'm not a therapist, I'm not anything other than a shoulder and an ear and a heart and somebody that knows and went through it and knows that there's so much hope. There's always hope, always.
Speaker 1:I wrote down a lot about hope. But the DNA swab why isn't every doctor doing that? Do you know?
Speaker 2:I don't know it was here's that divine intervention again, because I had gone in and she was just a general practice, so she didn't really specialize in mental health, and when she prescribed the Celexa, she prescribed 20 milligrams, where anybody in mental health I mean, you start at the lowest dose and work your way up.
Speaker 2:Well, here we were already in it like two doses, so I was starting. She just odd, so odd, because she just said you know, I'm just going to try this for you, and I had only been on Paxil before this and some other I mean I can't remember Lefkoe or something like that years ago, and so I had only been on two others, but Paxil was the one that I had actually been on for a longer stint. And, um, she just she just said we're going to do this cheek swab. And I'm so thankful that she did Um, because had she not, I don't, I don't know if I'd be on the right med. I mean, I'm sure we would have, just like I said, gone down this rabbit hole of trying all these different things and trying to figure out which one's best for my, you know, for my makeup and my.
Speaker 1:DNA. So yeah, and as I'm realizing today, like there's not much more defeat, not much more of a defeating feeling than you know, where do I go next?
Speaker 2:What do?
Speaker 1:I do next. This is my happiness, this is my well-being.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's kind of where I was for a time. What do I do? And I just finally got into the right therapist, got into the right doctor and she was so matter of fact with me and I'm so thankful for that because I mean there wasn't a lot of affection in the home, you know, because you're not feeling it, you're not feeling your worth, you're not feeling deep down inside that there's hope, even though you know there is. And at that time I'm not sure if Jesse will be super impressed that I'm putting this out there, but he was absolutely amazing during that time. He just didn't ask me if I needed anything. He just knew I did, didn't ask me.
Speaker 1:He's not giving you a decision, fatigue, no nothing.
Speaker 2:He just, he just did it. It was we're now, because I'm healthy and things are so going well. I mean now he'll ask what's for supper, what's this? I mean before it was just when I was sick. And I do say when I was sick because I was so sick. I was so sick and, um, he just, he just did it. He just, he just did it. There was no. He knew that I needed that time at church. He knew he didn't question me, he didn't ask me. Are you sure? This is nothing. He just let me do and let me be and let me do the things that I need to do and then support me and encourage me from from home. You know it was. It was just amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, yeah, so do you think it stemmed from the postpartum depression or that kind of open up gates from childhood stuff and you don't have to go into it if you don't want to?
Speaker 2:but I think it's probably a combination of a lot of things, so a combination of a few things. So we do have mental health in our family, there's some illness in our family, um, and but this was more things that I had to deal with. I was always, and I still am, to a certain to a certain extent, um, I had a tough time putting up boundaries. I had a tough time, um telling, telling people no, being okay with telling people no, um always being the one that would lift my family, lift other people within my family, and I think it just it just all came crashing down. It just all came crashing down and it it probably stemmed from postpartum, um, there were probably there were some other things that all of a sudden just kind of snowballed. It was. It was crazy how it happened, how it took place and when it took place. The timing. There's never no, it you don't get to decide. It decides for you. Um, the anxiety, depression, it decides for you. You don't get to decide.
Speaker 2:And I'm you wake up, and when you can't even you get up and go to the bathroom and you're vomiting because you can't like. Why, why is this going on? What is? And I would sit there in my thoughts and think is it because of this or is it because of this? And no, I mean, everything was fine, everything seemed to be fine and, like I said, from the outside it was, but inside of me, there there wasn't, it wasn't. And that was another thing that the doctor had said to me, wilkinson, when we finally got my med, and she said okay, Chris, so if you had diabetes, you'd let me treat you for that, if you had heart trouble, you'd let me treat you for that. But in order for all of these things to be okay, this has to be okay. And I won't ever forget that. Ever, ever, ever. Forget that, those words, because I will, to this day, tell other people that yeah anybody else that's going through something like that.
Speaker 2:I will always tell them this is what my doctor told me and, in order for this to be okay and she, this has to be okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah like you said, you were sick. Yeah, yeah no different. Yeah, then right.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 2:But she helped me see that and I knew that I needed it. Obviously, I was there for a reason, but she was reiterating to me how important it was to feel okay here in order for everything else to feel okay. I mean, obviously there are side effects and not all of them are positive. You know other things, but it's the way I feel about myself is completely different than I did. I mean, I'm actually. You feel like you're a part of a family, and not just in a family. You are there for your children, you're there for your spouse. You're there for your spouse. You're there for your grandbabies and your other family members that need you. I can actually truly be there for them and give them what I couldn't before, because I'm healthy. I feel healthy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every other organ has problems that we medicate, like why isn't the brain? The?
Speaker 1:one that runs it all Right. Taken seriously, exactly who started the stigma?
Speaker 2:You know, I mean it's so wild, it is and it's so sad, and especially there's constantly somebody, something or somebody's losing their life or taking their life. I should say it's just different things and you just wish that. They could have had this one thing figured out?
Speaker 1:Yes, they would have had support from somebody like a doctor. Right or somebody to go to the doctor with them, because it's all hard, it is, it's really really hard.
Speaker 2:It's really hard yeah.
Speaker 1:Was the hardest part of what you went through. The turning point.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yes, yes, looking back, yes, I've never been asked that question. That's a really good question, because the hardest part is when or for me at least I you had to. I knew I had to do it Like I knew I still had kids, like a husband and a house and a job. I still had to. You still have to get up the next day. You still have to do these things. And when I got to that I mean it was a process, obviously, but in my sickest I was I just knew that I had to keep trying. I had to keep trying and find that right person, the right doctor, the right church, the right therapist. I had to find all of those things and I'm so thankful that I did. I'm so thankful that I hit that spot or that place in my life, because I would not have gotten to where I am today, because I've learned a lot from that too and I've created a lot of amazing things out of that time.
Speaker 2:Um, on how to? This is kind of a crazy thing. So this was one of the things that I was researching when I was sick, and I do it to this day. I turn my phone upside down at night, so when it's next to me in bed, plug it in, turn it upside down. And I've actually passed that on to my boys because I'm like are you, do you have your phone next to you? Yep, do you turn it upside down? Well, no, uh-uh, turn it upside down, because then it's like it's out of sight, you're not going to see it. You can always turn it up if you're expecting a phone call, just turn it up. But you don't need to see the light, you don't need that distraction, you don't need that anxiety or anything else to add to it. So still to this day, I do that Every single time. I even put my phone down, I turn it upside down. Yeah, those little things, little things, yeah, that make huge differences.
Speaker 1:They do, and especially something like a phone, where our brains did not have this up until now, so it does not know how to respond. Yep, Yep, it sounds like I mean. The two main things are therapy and finding the right doctor, but is there one thing, in those things that you are most thankful for, would put the most credit towards oh boy.
Speaker 2:Um well finding the right medication, obviously, but EMDR was such a positive it ended up being such a positive part of my therapy that I would highly recommend it for anybody going through going through a tough time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool, I got to nail down that you do that moment, you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it could be a number. I mean, like, for me it was just one that kept coming up, and I'm sure there's others as well, but it was one that kept coming up to me and also finding the right tools. Um, so, when I started going to the right therapist and he, he would give me tools, um, on how to, when I started feeling myself having an anxiety attack, what, what can you do? What? How can you get to a point where you don't feel like you're going to have a heart attack or feel like you're going to pass out or whatever, and, um, you just make your butterfly shape with your hands and just pat them on your chest. So that's still something that I use periodically Not so much now because I don't. When I do have an anxiety attack, it's, oh, it's so minimal and it doesn't last long, and I know how to calm down and come out of it, and, yeah, but those are just some tools, but the one every single day, my phone is always upside down, always.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, yeah, okay. Well, let's get into hope. Um. So I was really excited when you said the word hope, because hope keeps coming up for me the last couple of weeks, so it's like this divinity thing. Yeah, see, um. So I did a deep dive and, um. The word hope comes from an old English word, hopa or hopa, I'm not sure how to say it, but it means confidence in the future or expectation of something good. Related forms are found in Old Norse and Middle Dutch. At its root, it's about looking forward with trust.
Speaker 2:I like that and in the Hebrew Bible or the Old Testament.
Speaker 1:it translates to tikvah. I'll have to ask my Jewish niece and nephew if I said that right. Tikvah Expectation cord something you hold on to. I like that thought of hope as something that you hold.
Speaker 1:Buddhism doesn't emphasize hope as much as other religions, since attachment to expectations can cause suffering, so it leads on to faith instead. Hinduism suggests true peace comes when hope rests in the divine. That's, I feel, like kind of where you put your hope. Um and uh, this is the way that I've been thinking about it. This is kind of where that showed up Um. In Greek mythology, hope is the last thing left in Pandora's jar after all the world's evils escaped, and it's debated whether that makes hope a blessing or a curse.
Speaker 1:Is there comfort in the suffering, or is it a prolonged pain? You know cause? I've wondered about hope like is is hope healthy or not? In some ways, Sure. Yep, yep, um. So stoicism warns against too much hope, since it ties you to the things outside your control. Better to cultivate acceptance, but I think hope has, uh, is on a way higher frequency or vibration than a lot of other emotions. Yep, um. So I think it's such a healthy word to ponder on and and use, um, so, um, a big AI person.
Speaker 1:So I asked AI after all of this, what do you think about hope? And it said it feels like it's a bridge between the present moment and a future possibility. It's not naive and it doesn't deny suffering, but it insists that suffering isn't the end of the story. Right, and I love that. Yeah, he said what makes it so beautiful is that it can be deeply personal and collective, so you can have hope just for yourself or like as a nation. You can have hope, right, yep, it's a life-giving force, fragile but transformative.
Speaker 1:And then I had to send me a bunch of quotes and the couple that I picked that I liked the best were Martin Luther King Jr said we must accept finite disappointment but not lose infinite hope. And I like that because, yeah, I mean, every day there's going to be things that disappoint us, right, right, but hope as the overall Right, and that's like the accepting, where it talks about Hinduism and the balance. And because I don't like winter and I've talked about that, this was the other quote I picked which I love. This one I want to put it on my mirror. Seamus Heaney said if we winter this one out, we can summer anywhere. Yeah, yeah, if we winter this one out, we can summer anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and that's really kind of how I feel, because that was kind of the same thing. I mean, it's just a short it really is. At the time that you're living it and you're in it it feels like it's forever, but now that I'm going to be 50 next year, it's such a short moment in my life that has given me so much joy, so much joy and happiness after you make it through the winter, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you go back and change it?
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 2:I would not. No, I wouldn't, um, I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't go through that trial, and I feel like there was more strength in our marriage during that time. I always thought that our marriage was pretty strong, but then, when you see different parts of your spouse, your husband, that you hadn seen before, because he was just being this person that I needed him to be, um, it has definitely created a whole nother strength. Um, my boys my older two boys were were old enough to know what was going on. They were in their teens, um, and I think they have.
Speaker 2:Um, they know that it's okay, you, you, it's okay, you will be okay, and there is, there is hope, because I I told them, I mean, I was, I spent a lot of time with them because they were at, they were at the point where I could actually talk to them about certain things, obviously not in detail, but they knew that something was wrong. They knew that mom was off, something's not quite right, um, and it was important for me to share that with them, um, because they may go through a time in their life and they know that they can come to me, um, yeah they can go out into the world now.
Speaker 1:Knowing how to help other people, knowing how to help themselves Right, don't stay quiet about it and yeah you would have never gotten to see this beautiful side of Jesse.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. I mean I had seen a lot of beautiful sides of him. Don't get me wrong but this was just above and beyond. I mean, I was just yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so great it is really great.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, With the hope for me, I guess sometimes like I'm a very delusional person, so sometimes where it's like am I using hope dangerously, Like in you know like oh okay, I think in 10 years this will happen. Blah, blah, blah you know Right so um, but yeah, I really liked looking into it, cause that's what. I've been thinking for the last couple of weeks. Hope keeps coming to me for some reason. I need to look into it. And when you wrote hope, I was like yes, now I get to deep dive it was so great.
Speaker 2:And I think hope can be taken, like you said, in different, different ways. There's there's always hope, but there's always. I mean, like you can have hope for hope that you win a million bucks.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So there's just different types of hope, like when you were saying that there's evil, there's an evil hope, which I believe that, yeah, that's true as well, but our hope is more. I mean, it's the hope with a better tomorrow, you know, just knowing that you will be okay. Yeah, yeah, the future, yeah, the future, yep, the future will be okay. It's brighter, yeah, and I liked the confidence, the confidence in the neck and in your future. That's what hope is. I mean, it carries a lot of it carries. That word is just so much. Yeah, it's powerful.
Speaker 1:It is, it really is. The last reflection I had is that hope is rarely described as grand or loud. It's almost always pictured in something small a bird, a light, a seed. It's incredibly resilient and that's what makes it relatable. Hope is often quiet, but it can outlast, despair, outlast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it is.
Speaker 1:That's perfect. I like that, yeah. So I'm really really excited to get to your words, because they're like the whole theme, the whole thing, it's all full circle, oh cool. So I asked you to pick seven people that I could reach out to and ask them to describe you in six or seven words, and now I'm going to reveal to you. Uh, do you have any guesses of what people, how people see you?
Speaker 2:Positive for the most. I mean, I smile, I smile a lot. There's a lot to smile about. So, yeah, those would probably be two things. Trustworthy maybe I don't know, I don't know Kind of that friend that's there when they need me.
Speaker 1:So yeah, okay, awesome, yeah, first one, no surprise, supportive. And that showed up.
Speaker 1:I, everywhere, everywhere, um, and you're you've been so supportive to me and we barely know each other, so I know how true it is um words like giving, generous, nurturing, loving, kind, caring, compassionate, big-hearted, attentive, thoughtful. Just goes on and on. And yes, your second word is trustworthy, truthful, honest, straightforward, genuine, authentic, loyal. Third word is charming, friendly, sociable, enjoyable, positive, thoughtful, fun and funny. Fourth is spirited, adventurous, energetic, vivacious, spicy and fun. And fifth one is chic, creative, beautiful, awesome, stylish. Okay so, ai synopsis is you're the calm in the room and the color in the world. I love that so much.
Speaker 2:That actually is. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. Yeah, yeah Liked it. So what are you looking forward to in life?
Speaker 2:Oh, looking forward to spending more time with my grandbabies. They're in Alabama so I don't get to see them as often as I'd like, but we try and make our trip down there. We were just down there in July and I was down there in April and I'm going back down there in a few more weeks, so I'm looking forward to watching our youngest boy. He's in seventh grade now, so he's doing the football thing and all that fun stuff, so it's super fun to see him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my older two boys were 22 months apart, so I almost feel like I missed out on a lot of not really missed out on a lot of things with them, because I was always there and present. But you like our youngest, he's like an only child, so you're really in tune to the things that are going on in his world. And my older two boys they had each other. Where I mean our youngest is he's, he's ours, you know, and we're. We like to spend time together, the three of us, and do our little adventures and, yeah, stuff like that Very different dynamics.
Speaker 2:It is a very different dynamic, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. So what is something that you do right now that you hope your grandkids do when they're your age?
Speaker 2:Speaking of grandkids Something that I do now Smile. I smile a lot. Yeah, there's just always try and have a positive outlook on things, and there's going to be negative and there's going to be bad things that might happen to you daily. But you, but what if you know? Like what if that didn't happen? Or would you learn from it? What did you learn from it? Just make sure you continue to have an open mind and smile.
Speaker 1:Smile. Yeah, some days do you have to make yourself smile? Do you have to purposefully think about it?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, I'm not a morning person and I'm not a Monday person Same. But one of the things that Jesse reminds me of when I say, oh, it's a Monday, he's like well, remember Garfield things that Jesse reminds me of. When I say, oh, it's a Monday, he's like well, remember Garfield? Garfield didn't like Mondays either, and John always made lasagna on Mondays, which was Garfield's favorite. So I'm like so those are the things. I'm just like, seriously, I don't want to think about Garfield or lasagna, but, yeah, do you make a fun meal on Sundays then? Or get fun food? No. Or on Mondays, yeah, no, never, never. It's just him saying Mondays aren't bad Without Monday, garfield wouldn't have gotten lasagna.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we wouldn't know that fun story we wouldn't know that fun story that he shares with me just about every Monday when I complain that it's Monday, yeah, I get the Monday blues.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Mondays and mornings same.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't like them, yep.
Speaker 2:Me either.
Speaker 1:Me either. Yep, anything that you do that you hope your grandkids don't do when they're your age, oh, I hope my grandkids like Mondays and mornings yeah, okay, yeah, that is that's I.
Speaker 2:It's just not. It's just not always fun, they're just not always fun. So I just hope that they see something different, view it the same way their papa does, because he's up and at them in the mornings I'm like, oh what no?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how can we trick our brains?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. Is there anything?
Speaker 2:else you'd like to share. No, no, I just mainly wanted I knew someday I would be able to share my story or my journey to hopefully help somebody, or just so people know that there's somebody else there. Um, you're not alone. You are not alone, ever You're not alone, and there's there's, there's always hope and and yeah, Absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Chris for coming in.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I was so nervous, but now it felt good once I started talking. So, yeah, thank you for having me. It was great, good Thanks.