Supernaut
Supernaut is a podcast about spirituality, sobriety, and the spectrum of self. Hosted by Beth Kelling, this show explores what it means to seek clarity, connection, and personal truth in a world that rarely slows down.
Since beginning her sobriety journey in 2020, Beth has been diving deeper into spiritual practices, emotional honesty, and all the beautiful, messy layers of identity.
Each episode opens the door to conversations about healing, growth, creativity, intuition, and everything in between — because who we are isn’t fixed, it’s a spectrum.
Beth will be joined by guests who share their own stories, perspectives, and spiritual paths — offering insight, inspiration, and the occasional cosmic detour.
Whether you’re sober-curious, spiritually inclined, or just looking to feel a little more human, you’re in the right place
Supernaut
Springsteen, Small Town, Second Chances
We connect with Sadie—president of Recovering Hope, teacher, mom, and accidental bridge builder—to trace how a rough high school experience, a hesitant return home, and an eye for what people actually need evolved into a 108-bed women’s treatment center with on-site childcare and a thriving team of 120. No buzzwords, no lectures—just candid stories about starting from zero, expanding with intention, and measuring success by the lives you can see changing.
We talk about what schools get wrong when they punish addiction, why DARE-style scare tactics miss the mark, and how “helpful vs unhelpful coping” beats the myth of willpower every time. Sadie breaks down identity in long-term sobriety, the power of behavioral activation (yes, even a dog walk counts), and how purpose becomes a sustainable alternative to craving. She shares candidly about spiritual detours—from Lutheran roots to a Basilica confirmation—and how a higher power can be as simple as the doorknob that opens the next right room.
This conversation is also a masterclass in practical leadership: turning stigma-laced complaints into a pedestrian bridge, lobbying for smarter health policy, teaching and mentoring without burning out, and using energy audits to delegate what drains you. If you care about addiction recovery, mental health, women’s healthcare, community design, or just keeping your own sparkle alive, you’ll find tools and the courage to use them. Hit follow, share this with someone who needs a hopeful nudge, and leave a quick review—what’s one helpful swap you’re making this week?
0:00 Old Friends, New Questions
4:10 The Song That Reconnects a Past
8:35 Returning Home and Leading Recovery
16:50 Building a Treatment Center from Zero
24:30 Why Addiction Counseling Chose Her
31:40 Punishment vs. Care in Schools
38:15 Beyond DARE: What Actually Helps
45:10 Meeting People Where They Are
52:00 Purpose, Identity, and Long-Term Sobriety
1:00:10 Spiritual Pivots and Trusting the Process
Welcome to Supernaut, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Sadie is on today, and I have known and adored her for almost 25 years, but I have so many questions I've never asked her before, so I'm excited to learn so much. So I asked you to pick a song for us to listen to before we started. What song did you pick?
SPEAKER_00:I picked Springsteen. I was like, I don't even know the name of it, uh, by Eric Church. And I picked it because I was really trying to think of something that you and I could talk about because that we've kind of had these reconnecting experiences now that I've moved back to Mora. But there was a gap in time where I didn't see you, and you know, I'd text you every once in a while on 421 and be able to kind of have some reconnecting experiences from when we were young. And so I met you when I was 17, and I just had so much happen in that that ex in the year of 17 in my life, and it was interesting that you kind of came into it in a way that was super fun. And I remember my first meeting with you, not meeting, it wasn't a meeting back then, but um, and everyone kept telling me, like, oh, BK, BK, you're gonna, you're gonna like her. She's great. And I was like terrified of you because BK back then wasn't just Kelly. Um, people called her bitch killer, and I never really knew why, but I was like, that has to be terrifying. And so when I did finally meet you, I was like, this person is so great. And when I was thinking about some of the things that I know we'll talk about today is just how similar and drawn to I was because of a lot of our similarities and who we are. That's so sweet. Where did we meet the first time? That is a good question. I feel like I was thinking about that before coming in. Like, where did Beth Kelling come into my life? And I feel like I remember one of my one of my first memories was like being in your house in town.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. The first house that I had after I graduated.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:And James was there.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:James was not there when I was there. Okay. Just for the record here, everybody. Yeah. Um, and you would have people come over in your basement, and I remember being like, I don't know if she'll want me there. Like, she doesn't know me. And they're like, come on in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I walked in and you were just so welcoming. And I remember like feeling like I finally made it when I was invited to like Friends Giving at your house, and I was like, I'm in the inner circle. I made it.
SPEAKER_04:That's so funny. Um, yeah, I remember when you had moved away, you were still so good about James's birthday and remembering to reach out and ask about him. And a lot of friends my age, you know, didn't think about that because they weren't having kids. So I can remember, and so I don't remember the first time we met, but I think I even knew who you were before that because your mom's a teacher and you were just kind of like that person that everybody knows. Because were you three years younger than me? I think so. Yeah. But like you were on my radar, you know what I mean? Usually, like people three years older don't know anybody three years younger, but I remember seeing you like in school and stuff. And that's so funny that people I don't know why people were like scared to meet me, but people have said that before.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like it was the name. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. How do you get a nickname like that without being it terrifying?
SPEAKER_04:And it was just silly, it was just a front. It was just Ashley Farric. She just named me that when we were like in seventh grade and it stuck.
SPEAKER_00:It's because I feel like now that I know you is like that nickname probably comes from your sense of loyalty. And like you're you're loyal, sometimes probably like me, to a fault, like and being able to like fight for those people that you care for. Like if you're in your your friend group and your family and somebody in a sense like wrongs them, like you're one of the first ones to be like, this isn't okay. And I'm gonna I'm gonna be someone's voice if they aren't able to have one.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, that's great. Well, thank you for picking a song that was so had so many memories. That was a beautiful song. It's a great song.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's very mora.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, definitely. Um, so you're the president of Recovering Hope, which is a 108-bed women's residential treatment facility and has on-site daycare for children under five, which means the mothers there can focus on recovering, knowing that their kids are safe.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. You did your research.
SPEAKER_04:So, what does your role consist of there?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I laugh because I initially was very hesitant about coming to Recovering Hope, not because of Recovering Hope, but because of where it was located. I was very nervous about coming home and I was kind of fighting it, and I kept getting asked, like, can you come help? Can you come? And I was like, I'll help with the marketing piece and I'll do that from behind the scenes and I'll keep living my life in the metro. And as I started to get more involved with the project as it was growing, because at that point we didn't have walls, we didn't have staff. Um, and then as we started to like get more into what the work we were doing, I was like, oh, this is this is this is cooler than I thought. And so they were like, Well, do you want to come work here? Like, you could be a drug and alcohol counselor, like, what are you interested in? And my job at the time was I would fly into different treatment centers in California and Arizona and Atlanta, and I would tell everybody what they were doing wrong. And then I would like a consultant, yeah, and I would like make a little plan for them, and then I'd leave and I would never come back. And I would maybe talk to them, I might fly in again. Um, I did a lot of like outreach for these programs and some program development. We made um some LGBTQ tracks in the programs, but ultimately I had no like heartfelt connection to the treatment centers, other than, oh, this is cool, this is something that's gonna be useful, but I didn't get to see the clients and I didn't get to see the the impact.
SPEAKER_04:Because you don't even know when you come back if they're even gonna follow the protocol that you put on.
SPEAKER_00:And so I it was like, oh, this works, and you know, it's fun to travel. And and at the time when I took that job, I had recently got divorced. So I was like, oh, this is free flights and free hotels and new people places. And after that, I was like, ugh, okay, now I um don't want to travel as much, and ended up um taking a job in the cities, just doing therapy at a psychiatric hospital, and kept getting asked about recovering hope and can you come in just for a little bit? And I was like, Well, I'll come in on my maternity leave because grandma's here, she'll watch baby, I'll kind of I'll help out a little. And so I did that for a little bit here and there, and I really went back like at New Year's when you start to set your intentions, and I'm like, why am I kicking and screaming? And I was just about to go back to from my maternity leave back to the hospital that I was working at. And I'm like, I don't want to go there. I'm like, the only reason I don't want to go to Recovering Hope is because it's my hometown, but it's everything I'd want in a dream job. If that job would have been anywhere else, I wouldn't have questioned it. So I, you know, emailed and said, Hey, is this still an option? And went back to my first day from maternity leave and said, Hey, here's my two-week notice. Thanks for holding my job for the last three months. Um, and came on. And at the time I was just gonna do the clinical director position for and just oversee like our counseling team. And that job just really grew into something huge. And so we initially had zero walls, zero clients, zero staff, and we kept going, okay, now we got 20 clients. Look, we'll figure out the details as we get there, we'll smooth smooth everything out when we get to 20, we'll do it again when we get to 30, when we get to 40. And then when we got to 50, I was like, hey, we can't get any bigger, so this is great. Like, this is it, this is this is where we're at. And then I said, just kidding. We're actually gonna build 24 residential beds and add outpatient and mental health. Um, and so once we get to 60, 70, 74, 84, um, we just keep expanding and and not because of um not because of just like my endless desire to like keep building this, but because of the need that we see not only here in Mora, but in Canabic County and throughout the state. So we've had a lot of growth and opportunities. And now the best part is I get to see the community impact as well. So we have 120 employees that have above minimum wage jobs, access to benefits, tuition reimbursement, and that part is something that I never got to see in any other roles.
SPEAKER_04:So Yeah, that's so cool to be there from the start and be such a huge have such a huge role in building it to this. I'm interested. Was the resistance to coming back to Mora? Like because you had it stuck in your brain, like I'm never going back to that small town.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like for me it was more around the food. Like I was like, oh my god, yeah, I'm gonna have to only have uh pizza and uh Dairy Queen, parties.
SPEAKER_04:What about Uber Eats? Like I know, I know. Like if I go to St. Cloud for one thing, I have to find other things to do so I can eat twice. Because if I leave Mora, like I need to get the most out of it.
SPEAKER_00:An extra one for the next day. And text your whole family that do you guys want anything here? Um, and I think for me it was also the perception of like kind of what I felt like I was at 17 of who who's gonna really take me seriously, who is going to be like, oh, what? Sadie, Sadie runs that facility, like Sadie's your boss, and I still get people that are like, what? But also I think that there's enough time and space to really show that people aren't who they were in your initial interactions with people, and and you grow and you you develop. And I I laugh about this when I pick up my kids at school. Um, because I look at the other parents and I'm like, I've seen you do some wild things, and here you are worried about um the red dye in foods and you know, and like detoxing your body and and all the great things, but I'm like, I've seen what you put in your body, you know, and and those are such reconnecting experiences, even if they weren't necessarily healthy relationships in in high school or like when we're in our teens, that they can really truly be healthy relationships as a as adults and parents and all of the things that come along with it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm kidding. Um, so I've always wondered why did you decide to be an addiction counselor? Like, why did you decide? When did you decide? Um because that's what you have your master's in as addiction counseling, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and so uh part of the reason I also chose that song was because I knew you were gonna ask me about how I got where I am. Um, and when I was in high school, I really saw a lot of my friends using drugs and alcohol and specif like methamphetamine was really, really prevalent. I know opiates is the conversation that's happening now, but back when we were in high school, it was you couldn't throw a rock and not hit anybody that was used actively using methamphetamine. Um, and so I dabbled in methamphetamine in high school when I was 17. Like I said, I had 17 was a rough year for me. And I was able to kind of change my people places and things, and I had a really supportive family and I had access to things and um that other people didn't have. And so when I went to college at UMD, it was I'm no longer gonna use methamphetamine. I'm no like it's not in my bubble. I don't go to parties where it's just sitting out. Um I'm not around people that are using methamphetamine. And I look back at that time when I was trying to figure out what I was going to school for, and I saw some of my friends in jail, prison, treatment, dead. And what was the difference between it? Like, when is it teenage experiences and experimental use, and when is it addiction? And when does it really change from like fun experimental to like a problem? Or is it always a problem? And whose brains, you know, you're a brain person, I'm not, but uh the whose brains are more likely to get stuck in this cycle and all the things that they're so I initially wanted to be a school counselor because I also was a little resentful towards the school. Um, when I did get in trouble, there was just things that felt really punishing, which I get, you know, like if you get in trouble and you're doing something bad, you should have consequences. And if we're looking at substance use as like a disease model of care or something that like needs to be treated from a medical level, why are we punishing it? And in high school, when I got caught with methamphetamine, I was kicked out of band, for example. And so I couldn't play in like the band concert. I could still go to practice, but I couldn't be in the concert. Or I couldn't go to I couldn't play in any of the volleyball games. So I could go to practice, but I couldn't be in the games. And I think most people in my situation would have been like, fuck it, I'm just gonna quit. So now you've taken away that protective factor of me engaging with kids that are doing something positive and productive in their after school time to me staying at home by myself till my parents get home. And so it just felt like it wasn't supportive for kids that didn't also have other support factors. And I really wanted to be a school counselor and focus on kind of helping support these kids that I felt were in my bucket. And I remember my parents sent me to treatment, I was lasted five days. At what age was that? Like seven, sixteen, seventeen. And I brought my homework and I was in pre-calculus, and I brought my homework to treatment with me, and they said to me, We've never had anyone past math eight. And I was like, but who's gonna help me with my homework? Yeah, like I'm like, I still need help. And then I told my mom that and kind of maybe strong held her to get me out a little bit, but uh they both did me out. Um, but I really learned from that experience around like this is this doesn't feel good for people that are trying to seek services.
SPEAKER_04:And that's great. You can put yourself in other people's shoes at such a young age because I think about that so often. I mean, these kids, if they show up at the school high or drunk and they're disciplined, they're probably what if they're getting it from their parents? Or what if like their parents don't care and they have nobody to care about them and help them and you're just gonna punish them?
SPEAKER_00:And that's why dare doesn't work, right? When we you're a dare kid, is that they're saying like people are gonna be wearing trench coats, and I guess not anymore, so I'm not gonna talk complete crap about dare because I guess does it still exist? There's a Dare 2.0, I don't know anything about it, but Dare 2 1.0 that we had was like that guy in the creepy coat hiding behind school giving out free drugs. And I will tell you that never in my life is someone like giving out free drugs on the corner. Right. And with the Dare program, is that they also said like people that do drugs are bad. Yeah, and they don't consider that like when I do an assessment now, and this is more adult insight, is like when I'm doing an assessment, one of the questions is how old were you when you started using? And it's 11, 12, 14. What was that experience like when you first used? Fun, exciting. I was with my big sister, my big brother, my older cousin, my mom. Right? It was fun. And so to tell somebody like those people are bad when they're the people that are in your life as you love them, doesn't make sense. It doesn't work from a social cultural perspective. And so I feel like you know, our age was this product of dare that didn't work, and it was like, oh, well, there's there's drugs.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and why I didn't like dare, why I think I did meth, because I thought, because they classified marijuana and meth and cocaine and opiates together, and that they were all equally bad. And so when I was 16, 17 and tried weed for the first time, I was like, Well, why don't I try the other drugs? Yep. Because this they lied about weed. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:So it's been it's always interesting um when people are kind of putting those things and talking to kids about it or all of that.
SPEAKER_04:But but I feel like I'm not sure we'll find out later if you're religious or not, but I feel like God placed you perfectly in this position to go to treatment, see what was going on, be aware, have the family that you did so you could be who you are today and help so many people.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like if I didn't have that experience, I don't know if I would have the experience like those experiences led to like who I am as a person and also led me to want to do something in this bucket. I really wanted to do art therapy. So when you were asking about like how did I end up there, I was like, I'm gonna get my bachelor's in psychology. I like didn't tell my mom that I was getting a minor in art because I just didn't feel like that. My mom's an art teacher, and so she would have been like ecstatic about this. Too happy, too happy, and so I like secretly hid that I had like painting one and painting two and all these like studio art classes because UMD didn't offer like an art therapist program. But then I am really bad at math and science, and so I didn't want to take the graduate requirement exam. And so I was looking at schools where I could be a counselor, and this is like my impulsive side, right? Where I'm like, I'm gonna go and do what's easiest, and I'm gonna apply to the grad schools that I don't have to do math at. And so I applied at Hazelden's graduate program for addiction studies, which keywords in that are graduate program of addiction studies, and still didn't click like I'm gonna be a school counselor, two different programs. So I about halfway through realized that I wasn't gonna be a school counselor because I didn't go to get my master's in school counseling, which is a whole different program. So it was all kind of by accident? Kind of. Oh my gosh. Like I would have, I feel like I would have ended up working in a high school if I would have gone the other path. But instead, I kind of always think about Hazel, then has this phrase that they use in their treatment, and they also use it in grad school about trusting the process. And I'm like, I'm paying for school. I don't want to trust the process. Like, I'm giving you money. This isn't trusting the process. Like, there's not a process, like I'm dictating what I need because that's why I picked you. Um, but at some point in all of this, I still really wanted to work with adolescents, and I ended up working doing my first internship at Hazelden's Center for Youth and Families in their adolescent program. And then all of a sudden, Hazelden had said, You for your second and third internships, you have to do external internships. And I was like, What? I wanted to only do them here and be here and work here forever or in a school, right? And I had to go and work at a place called the Pride Institute to do my external internship because I had to trust the process. And I realized that my bucket wasn't in this like 12-step only more abstinence-based approach to care. It was being able to meet clients where they were at. And Pride really let me do that. It was a program specifically for gay, lesbian, bisexual clients. It's the wig makers of the world, the uh ballerinas, the the amazing humans from like that artistic side too. And so I loved every single client that I worked with in that program. And it was really awesome to then get in the realm of doing more outreach and advocacy and presenting. And so I kind of switched from being that direct care counselor into the bucket of presenting and teaching and all that kind of stuff over here, which then led me to where I'm at today.
SPEAKER_04:So trusting the process kind of works.
SPEAKER_00:Kind of works, and I always hate saying that it actually did work, but do you tell people to trust the process now, Joe? No, I'm like, just trust the process, it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_04:It's like it's bittersweet. Yes, yeah. So well, I'm so glad that it led where it did. Um, you're also an expert in substance use disorder and mental health treatment. I looked up the exact definition of substance use disorder, and it is a disease that affects a person's brain and behavior and leads to an inability to control use of illegal or legal drug or medicine. And I mean, that's kind of what I thought it was going to say, but um just wanted to read the definition out because it's so interesting. And again, back to school, like when we were in school, no teachers, no counselors, nobody looked at it like that. So, how do you know if someone has that? Do we all have it a little bit? Like, I just wonder, you know, or do people just need more willpower, which I don't really believe in. Like, I don't believe willpower works.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, if willpower worked, everybody would be sober, right? Um, and I kind of look at it as like two different buckets, especially being licensed in both like substance use and mental health, is that there's helpful coping skills and there's unhelpful coping skills, and there's different for everybody. Like what's healthy for me might not be healthy for you, and you have a choice. And so when we look at like what they call behavioral activation, is that if I have a thought and my thought is I'm nobody likes me, and my emotion around that is lonely, and I stay in my room in bed, then that really reinforces that nobody likes me versus and so I'd consider just staying in bed in that situation unhelpful, right? Because it's reinforcing this negative thought about yourself that then reinforces the unhelpful emotion in that situation, and then it's this downward spiral. And if I flip that where I go from nobody likes me, I'm feeling lonely, to I'm gonna take my dog on a walk, that's gonna at least maybe get me to feel a little better, even if I don't make any friends or connections. My thought might change to at least my dog likes me, right? And I used to joke that like my dog's name was Kevin, and so I'd be like, at least Kevin likes me. Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon. And that then is like, okay, so I'm feeling a little bit better. I'm not as lonely, or maybe a different emotion can go in there. But then if I take it a step further and make that, like, I'm gonna go to the dog park, well, at least Kevin has friends, and I can kind of keep doing that. But organically, if I'm putting myself in that dog park situation, bringing my dog, my dog's making friends, then I potentially might make a connection with another human there and at least have some start of a start. That doesn't mean that that person's gonna be my best friend, but it it kind of activates the positive changes. And so when people put in that unhelpful behavior around substance use, is it feels good, right? Like if I'm feeling shitty about myself and I go get hot drunk, I'm gonna feel a little bit better. Ultimately, if you have a substance use disorder and you might have some consequences that come with that, it might do that for a minute you feel better, an hour, and then it just reinforces that downward spiral. And that's where people get stuck is like I can't feel like this, but nothing helpful is working or helpful takes time. But I know that if I'm feeling that stuck in my body or stuck in my head, or I'm living in a situation with people that are, you know, bringing me down, or they're using, or all the things that life throws at you, this is gonna help in the same way that any unhelpful behavior can help, right? Like having a one-night stand, or some people might think that's helpful. So I'm not putting judgment on some, like I said, it might be helpful for some, unhelpful for others. Yeah. And so people are able to make decisions around what they need in that moment. And I think people that have substance use disorder get really reliant on sometimes that unhelpful behavior. And we see it across the spectrum where sometimes people get sober from methamphetamine and then have uh alcohol issues, and some people use alcohol issues and then they're overeating because it's the same dopamine receptor that it's connecting to. Um, and it's it's just about creating these healthy habits around life and changing your people, places, and things. And I've seen that throughout my years when I see people with long-term recovery, is that it starts to be like I'm in I'm sober. And everybody else in my life has to be sober. And my whole entire identity is only about being in recovery, and I'm going to AAA maybe 17 times a day. And that is totally fine, right? Because that's what that person needs in that moment to make everything in their life revolve around recovery. And then you see people with 10-year sobriety who have, yeah, I'm a person in recovery, but I'm also all of these things. And that's just a part of my identity. So instead of going on a sober outing or having a sober activity or going to a sober party, I'm still going to a sober party because the people that I've filled in my life are sober. Or if I'm going somewhere where maybe normies are drinking, they're not pressuring me to drink, and I have no, no one has expectations around me drinking because I've created that space for myself. And it just takes time, and it's it's about these unhelpful versus helpful behavior.
SPEAKER_04:So it's really about changing your identity, but the first step, like catching those thoughts, like you said, those thoughts. What was the thought example that you used? Oh, what did I use?
SPEAKER_00:Lone, or I'm not nobody likes me.
SPEAKER_04:Nobody likes me. Um, so the more I meditate, the more I'm catching those thoughts. Because a lot of times you don't even realize you're having them. Do you agree?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think some people have like a constant clicking without even realizing it. Like you can walk around and it says, I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough, and that's where we get into childhood trauma stuff, right? Like if I've always been told that I'm not wanted, that nobody loves me, those clicking are always there. And so, how do we either make it quieter? Yeah, or potentially hopefully one time come to a place where it's less, right?
SPEAKER_04:I caught one the other day. I was watching Madonna interview on Jay Shaddie, and she said something about how she has angels or guides or something like that. And my thought was, I wonder if I have guides like that. And then my next thought was, no, I don't have any because I'm not pretty enough. I'm not as pretty as Madonna. But I was like, what? Like, obviously, we're all just spirits and made out of energy. Like, nobody cares about that but me. You know what I mean? Like, my guides wouldn't care. Like, but that was that must be like a deep-seated thought that I have, and that it's still there, even after all these years. But like becoming aware of it is like the first step. So like slowing down and that pause and just realizing those voices in your head, and then you can start to change your identity.
SPEAKER_00:And I think you get to not necessarily change it, but you get to find who you were, like your authentic and genuine self. And there's like a YouTube video out there, it's about like the opposite of addiction is connection. Um, and for me, it's about like how do you help somebody find purpose? Because you've seen people probably too that have gotten sober, like they're not using, but they're not in recovery, or they're not full of purpose, and they're just kind of white knuckling it, is what they call it in A, where AA where they're just there, like they're not happy.
SPEAKER_04:And so because every day is like, I just gotta focus on not using. Every day focus on not using. But if you replace it with something that fulfills you and gives you purpose, then you're not focusing on how you don't have to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a lot of people are like, I don't know if I like the 12 steps, but when you break them down to like 12 principles, they're useful. It's like about getting honest with yourself, it's about finding who you are as your authentic core, it's helping other people to help stay out of yourself, right? So if I'm focused and my purpose becomes helping others in whatever capacity, it doesn't have to be through sponsorship or through AA, but if I can find a sense of purpose and I can find it's brotherhood, is the other principle. And I think like I don't quiz me on the actual steps, but um, you know, if I can find connection and a way to give that back, service everybody wants, yeah, service. And those are all things like when I can tell people like, do you want these things? How do we get them? You don't have to go to AA to get them, but how do you find connection, purpose, something outside yourself to get you unstuck and a sense of connection to some sort of spirituality? And I think some people get caught on the the God phrase of it, but it doesn't have to be God, it can be just something outside. Like I've had clients that are like, right now, my higher power is this doorknob because I know that that door can help me get where I need to go. Great, let's start there.
SPEAKER_04:What do you believe spiritually?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's a good question. I moved back to Mora and I am stuck in this existential crisis around should I be Lutheran, should I be Catholic, should I like find something else? And I have not made a decision around it, but
SPEAKER_04:Kind of like put something in Christianity. Yeah. What did you grow up?
SPEAKER_00:Lutheran. Good old grace Lutheran. But um when I got I got married when I was young, you know that, but I think I was 20. And one of the things that I was like committed to doing was having Catholic babies. And in order to have Catholic babies, I had to be Catholic. And my my husband at the time, he did not care at all. He's like, whatever you want to do. And so I'm like, I am gonna go through the confirmation process at the basilica. Because if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna go big or go home. And I had to find a sponsor. And so I found a friend of mine who was Catholic and we didn't really realize what we signed up for. And so you know when you talk about trust the process, I'm like, so do you want to do this? And she's like, Yeah, I guess I can uh, you know, show up on Wednesdays at the basilica for the next seven months. I don't know, this was the longest process, and I can't believe I did it as an adult because I remember doing it as a kid in high school, and it just felt way different going to Grace once a week with like my friends versus having like a Catholicism class from like people at St. Thomas. Like they it was like a college course, was what it felt like. And so my friend and I went every Wednesday, she was my sponsor, she had to come with me. We even ended up going to like a Catholic camp retreat and having the whole like pomp and circumstance, circ circumstance, what is it, at the basilica when I got confirmed. Um, so it was a huge deal. My parents came and my dad was like, I can't believe you're making me do this again. Like, I already went to your confirmation. It's like a three-hour church service, and I'm like, this is great. But the trust your process part about it was as I got all of this signed up, and about probably like right a couple weeks before we were gonna, nope, we went to the first class, and then we were getting ready to go to the second one, and my friend called me and she goes, I'm thinking I might leave my husband. Can I stay at your house? And I was like, I'm in California, so um, you know, ask my husband. I'm sure he won't care, he works all weekend, and so she's like, he said it's fine, I'm gonna stay at your house. I gotta just figure some stuff out. I'm like, great, we can talk about it at Catholic camp, you know. And um, then that weekend I got a text from my husband, yes, a text, but it said, um, I'm moving out. And so it was this kind of storm of circumstances that led to my friend and I both living together, because I had an entire house with and I traveled at the time, so I wasn't even at my house. And she was looking for a place to live, trying to decide her own marriage, and we were both going through Catholic camp at the same time. It's called RCIA, if anybody actually is listening, but uh Catholic camp is what I called it, and it was just this whole kind of spiritual awakening in a different way than I had thought about it when I did it when I was forced to as a kid.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. What drew you to Catholicism?
SPEAKER_00:At the time, I had a lot of strong women in my life, and my husband at the time was also Catholic, and so I really loved and appreciated his grandma, and his grandma had been in my life since we he was my high school sweetheart, and so his grandma had been in my life for as long as I could remember. And my my grandma, both my grandmas had passed away, and so I was just really connected with her, and she really wanted Catholic grandbabies, and she was so upset that we would get married outside and not in the Catholic church, and I was like, Well, I'm sorry that we got married outside, but I wasn't Catholic at the time, and um, but I'll give you grand uh grandbabies that are Catholic, and so that was like my entire goal at the time, but it just ended up being this whole reconnecting experience with something that's I hadn't gone to church as an adult, I hadn't been like connected in any capacity really to religion or even spirituality, other than learning about it and like talking about it with clients, and it felt like I needed to do something as well, and it was interesting at the time because I had a coworker who was going to the same type of um, I don't know what they call it, but um, she was becoming Jewish. And so at the time it was really exciting to be able to kind of compare notes, and it was like we could agree on everything up until Easter. And then we disagree.
SPEAKER_04:So well, I was always drawn to it too for the rosemary's and the rituals, and it just seemed fancy and fun, and I never got into it, but that's what I like too, though.
SPEAKER_00:The the ritual part about it and the the rosaries and um confessionals, and I like that part, but so uh you haven't found a church yet.
SPEAKER_04:Um, how do you feel God now?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, not saying that like you would in church more if you were going to church, but I feel like I'm starting to see it more with my kids now, and they ask questions and like they're I have them go to what's it called, Bible camp. But my son really likes um uh Bible camp and has a lot of questions, and he's very inquisitive, and so we look up the answers together, or um just a lot of different pieces that go with it. And so I guess I'm still at this like existential crisis around I feel like I grew up in Grace Lutheran and right across the street is the Catholic Church, and I feel like I'd be cheating on Grace. Like, can I go in there?
SPEAKER_04:Every time you walk in, you're like, don't look at me.
SPEAKER_00:And I also and I to be honest, I haven't ever even explored this, but I uh there's part of me that like the basilica was so welcoming for all that I didn't feel like there were messages that were being told, like in the community around some of the things that you hear about Catholics, and so I felt really comfortable being like I can bring my kids here and I'm not they're not gonna have that Catholic guilt. And I'm like, well, they have Catholic guilt if I go to the Catholic Church in a small rural community, but and I just really have been so focused on growing and developing work-wise and dealing with COVID that there hasn't been a minute for me to really reflect on where I want to be and how I want to raise my kids.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I'm stuck there, but seems like the path is starting to form as he's asking more questions and you're looking into it.
SPEAKER_00:So we'll see.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. What is something new that you've learned about the brain and addiction lately?
SPEAKER_00:When you were asking me that, I was like, she's gonna ask me all these science questions, and I usually make the clients watch Pleasure Unwoven. I don't even know who says it. And if anybody who's listening to this has been a treatment, you've probably watched this video because it talks about the science behind addiction, and it's a guy walking in the mountains, and he just walks around talking about this topic, and I uh when your brain is like using drugs, you're flipped. Like your brain is like this, and that's about all the techie I get or like science-y I get around talking about it. But I was laughing because I was trying to think of the science and like an easy way to explain it. And when I was working for this company and traveling, one of the doctors that worked with the program is a guy by the name of Dr. Kenneth Bloom, and he's credited for finding the uh addiction gene basically. And when I'd have to go to Texas, I'd go and visit him and like update him on our programs and things like that. And he was a huge jazz music uh guy, and so and he was also a night owl, and I'm a night owl, and this was I know this might sound a little inappropriate, but it was very appropriate because he's just a night owl, and so he'd be like, Let's meet for dinner, my wife will be with me, and then we can go, I'll show you this really cool jazz club. So I was touring like the Austin, Texas jazz clubs with this guy credited for the addiction gene, and he would talk about all this research he was doing and how they found this genetic component that like processes dopamine different, and he has all this genetic testing, and I know you've talked about that on some of your other podcasts, and he's made some of those tests, so that's like what he does, and I still have no idea how to explain like the addiction science behind things, and I'm like, let's look it up together, um, or let's read this together, and I just I just it's math and science. I don't dopamine.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I don't really retain it. Yeah, so I didn't know if you did.
SPEAKER_00:No, I wish it's my one fault, but I've try and find resources for people that are excited about it, but I'm like, mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um, do you also teach at Anoka Ramsey?
SPEAKER_00:I do. I do not have like brain part of class, but uh I teach assessments and practicum and a case management class and then do a lot of the internship placements.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so you do a lot. You run a recovery center, teach, have a couple kids, what else? Tell me about when you made the bridge happen.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that was um an accident. They're all happy accidents, right? Is that like Bob Ross? Like, when I think about how I ended up teaching, I went to go and recruit interns and ended up leaving with a job. Oh my gosh. And so I'm like, how is this even possible? And right now I'm at a point in my life where I'm like, I don't need to be the one to do this. I think it was happenstance that I was able there to help start and create the program, but I actually did just tell my boss at Anokaram, I'm like, I can't teach next semester. Um, and so I'm willing, I'm able to teach one class, but I'm like, uh, please help me. And so I've been trying to pivot and really prioritize like my kids and my family life and be more present for them because now they're at a spot where they notice I'm not there. Um and one of the things that I also last year did not do was rerun for city council here in in Mora. And so again, when when you talk about like happy accidents, I was getting a lot of calls when I first started recovering hope about how my women, that's quoted if you are uh on not on watching this, but my women were gonna get hit by a car and I needed to, again in quotes, control my clients from walking on the side of the road. And I would get the amount of calls that I would get and the suggestions around that. They're like, well, put reflective tape on them. Put reflective tape on on my clients. Like, first of all, I'm I'm not gonna do that. I mean, I could ask them if they would like to put some on strollers. And second of all, not every woman that's walking in Mora, Minnesota, is from Recovering Hope. Like, I walk with my stroller in Mora. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, stop calling me, stop harassing me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and so I brought it to the city administration at the time, and I was like, this isn't a me problem. And I said, this is an accessibility problem from town through the liquor store, the trailer court that was up there, the affordable housing that's there, and just in like the bowling nail. I mean, think of how many things are north of the hotel. Yeah, south on uh 65. And this isn't just about recovering hope. It's about we don't have a walking bridge, and so you have people that are walking on that bridge at the time. And so they're like, Well, you should join Parks and Rec. And I was like, I don't have time for that, but okay, let's do it. Cause then Did you watch the show? Yes, and I was I used to be blonde too, so people would be like, Nez Leslie, no. Yes, I'm like, that's me now. Yeah, and we worked on the Parks and Rec board to um come connect some Mindot stuff to I don't know, I don't know all the details of it because it was a long time ago. But we were able to connect some trails to the state project to be able to get this walking bridge, and I was like, Yay, we did that. But after we got to the walking bridge part, um, I had to run for city council because then I needed to make sure that this whole thing got approved, right? And no, I'm that's not really why I mean I did because it made sense, but uh that was just part of the reason, and so it was nice to be able to show up in our community and bring what I think is some ideas around change and like our taxes, right? And so I've in when I am doing something, I invest fully into it, and I learned a lot about like the airport board, and now not that I'm an expert in airport boards, but at least I can know where to look or who to reach out to, or just even like what a levy is and some of the things that I wasn't truly aware of. At the same time, I've been really involved in the state legislator as well. Like I do a lot of lobbying and testifying at the Senate in regards to like the health and human service bills, and so it kind of coincided with the two things. Um but we were finally able to get like this walking bridge connected to trails so that people can safely walk from one side of town to another. And now it's just funny because I live right in town, and so basically I feel like this whole project was like, Can I build a walking path from my house to which is not what I my intention was. It just happened to be that I bought a house in this area, like right on the walking trail. Like I and I have never used it to walk to work, but I could. You should at least once. I know. I feel like, and if I ever like die a young early death, I want that. I'll put it on record now. I want that bridge named after me. Yeah. I feel like I worked really hard. Yeah, let's make sure it happens to get it happen. So um, but yeah, it's just been an adventure, but I also realized that it was taking a big toll on my kids to be gone on like every Tuesday night, and some of the calls and letters, you wouldn't think that you'd get angry, like death threats um on the Mora City Council, but you know, never, never a dull moment.
SPEAKER_04:So and I feel like your daytime job has to be a lot of giving yourself to people. So then being on a board that's giving yourself too, I think might just be too much.
SPEAKER_00:It's just too much.
SPEAKER_04:So I'm glad you figured like set that boundary. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:I think I had mentioned I had just hosted an event that Beth was at, and I talked a little bit about how two years ago I took all of the meetings in my life and I ranked everything from like zero to ten on how it filled my cup personally and um business like, and it was a lot of things were like five and five, like not really cup fillers, but not really something that I needed to do. And I was able to delegate a lot of that to people that maybe found interest in it. And I I use the example of I was attending the pick'em up coalition here in Canabic County, which is about veterans, and it was something that I felt like I wasn't giving my all to, that I was just kind of showing up for, but I it was another thing on my plate that I didn't have that the time or ability to invest in, even though it needed to it needed somebody to focus on it. And I had a staff at the time who was a veteran, super passionate about it, was like, heck yeah, I would love to attend that and become involved in it. And so I was like, oh, that that's that's awesome. It wasn't a burden to that person, it didn't feel like an extra thing, it was something they were excited about, and so it allowed me to kind of shift some of the things that I was doing around instead of feeling like I would be exhausted when I'd go watch my child at uh taekwondo. I feel like I'm like, oh, this is my Tuesday night. Like I can show up there and I can be present for him, and I don't have to like be feel like I have to bring my laptop in and be just be just be there for him.
SPEAKER_04:Because our brains probably automatically think, oh, I don't like doing this test, nobody's gonna like doing it. I can't put it off on anybody, but everybody's so different for a reason. So you just gotta find somebody that's like gonna be pumped and I you give it to them.
SPEAKER_00:They're gonna be like, thank you. And I found that it when I sent out some of the things, if nobody responded to it, I'm like, maybe there's not value in this. Like, maybe this isn't something that my organization needs to be involved in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like if there's not anybody out of a hundred and some people that are like, oh, that sounds like something I'd want to go to, why are we part of it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so we should all do that. There should be like a national holiday where we all take stock and write our daily activities and then decide which ones not to do so that we can breathe a little more.
SPEAKER_00:That is what I did. I I put everything that was on my calendar in there, and then I committed to, okay, if I can find a therapist that is available every other Wednesday at 9 a.m., then I'll go back to therapy. And my old therapist was like, Yeah, I can meet with you every other Thursday. I was like, I I mean, I can't do it any other day, like any other time. This is the thing. Were you trying to not have it happen? Yeah, I feel like my head was like, Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Yeah. So But it did. It did. And so it was it was perfect little, you know, trust the process. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Awesome. Yeah, that's like the theme. Trust the process. Um, okay, so something similar about us is that we've both um loved taking in the unhoused. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I uh feel like someone once described me as like a collector of people, but not like in a creepy serial killer vibe, but in a way of, and I I know that you do this as well. Like if you're having people over at your house, you're not worried about like, do they like each other? Like, do they get along? Is there I want everybody there.
SPEAKER_04:I want to see everybody talking to each other. Like, that's my favorite thing in the world is connecting people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like if you don't like each other, then don't come or don't talk to them. Yeah. And we're able to like create these spaces where people are able to do that. And I think that that's what I have learned from you as well. Is like, I'm gonna invite who's in my circle and my arena, and take it or leave it. If you don't want to be there, don't come.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because I guess I just I didn't even realize that till recently that yeah, other people be like, Well, who's gonna sit next to who? And if this person talks to that person, I'm like, what? Like, I've never ever thought about that or worried about it. Like, I just love everybody so much. I'm assuming that they're gonna love each other.
SPEAKER_00:The only time I've ever been worried about who is gonna sit next to each other was when I was getting married and I had like 300 people coming, and the only reason I cared was because I kept thinking about like my friends, where I'm like, oh my god, you're not gonna know that that's my boss, and what are you gonna tell my boss about me? And so you know, and like otherwise I don't get like let's put all my friends over here and these people over here. But I was like, but what if they talk to each other? That might be awkward.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's funny. I did um get 12 tickets to a Vikings game once, and a bunch of the people were like, Well, I don't want to sit by that person, they shouldn't sit next together. Like, so I did have to like it was so stressful, yeah, like trying to make sure, and then everybody moved all over the place anyway, so yeah. Um, so I asked you to give me a list of people that I could contact so I could ask them to describe you in six to seven adjectives, and then I put all those words together and found the themes that stood out the most. So I'm going to reveal those to you now. So the very first one is energetic. Three people use the word energetic to describe you bubbly, spontaneous a couple times, enthusiastic a lot, optimistic four times, and energetic was three times. Yeah. Is that surprising?
SPEAKER_00:It isn't. And I was trying to even like mix it up by putting like work people and like my mom and some of my old oldie but goody pals. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But everybody sees you as energetic. And the second word is caring. Bunch of people said that, and thoughtful and considerate, loving, helpful, and approachable. So again, not surprising. And the third one is your drive. Um, the drive came up many times, passionate, tenacious, resilient a couple times, reliable a couple times. And I thought about putting reliable under caring because I feel like if you are reliable, it's because you care about that person, right? Yeah. But it's drive, it's caring, it's both and intentional. And then fourth was creative. Lots of people said creative and flexible, visionary, rebellious, which I thought was creative because to me, rebellious rebellious means you're creating your own path.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And um you have to be confident to be rebellious that you are creative and that you can. Um and flexible, flexible is creative to me too, because you have to have an imagination to pivot. Um, but that could be under drive too. Flexible could be under drive. Um, and the fifth word is playful. Cheeky, clumsy, needy, late. I thought rebellious could go there too, and bubbly. And then I asked AI to write a synopsis and to help me write one. And we decided on you are creation in motion, a lively, spontaneous spark that makes life feel inevitable.
SPEAKER_01:Aww.
SPEAKER_04:I put the word inevitable in there because I was like, that's just you. You make life feel inevitable. And also, someone said, I wanted to read this. They said, one of my favorite things about her as a friend is that she has this really great way of making you suddenly look at things from a new perspective. It's one of the things I value about her most.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_04:I thought that was so beautiful. Where do you think you get all this perspective from? Just being like a curious person, because I think even your story from the beginning about why you got into what you do is like all curiosity. So you're like listening and then you're able to see these perspectives. But sorry, I didn't let you talk.
SPEAKER_00:No, and I think that it goes with like the same as you, like the collecting of people in a way that it's you have so many different perspectives and people in your life.
SPEAKER_04:And you we wouldn't want to collect people if we didn't understand their perspective, too, you know.
SPEAKER_00:And there's times where I, you know, like I've got lots of friends who don't think in the same way, but I want their feedback when I'm like stuck in my own thinking. Like, I'm gonna find the people. I mean, even at work, I'm like, okay, we want to find people, find one person that you know might agree with you and one person that's not, and then come and talk about whatever it is that you're making a decision around. Because if I only bring people that like think like me, of course I'm gonna get the same. Why would I even ask them their feedback? I'm just gonna go with what I've gotten by into because I've created that niche of my life, right? Like, I'm like, if everybody I'm never gonna grow versus having someone who's really gonna challenge me.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I learned that from your neighbor every day, my brother. Um, because he's like annoyed if I agree with him. He's like, Well, that's no fun. Can't you challenge me more?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So, yeah, that's good. And someone else said, which I think you would agree, is that you're the most organized and organ unorganized person that they know, like slash.
SPEAKER_00:I can't even tell you.
SPEAKER_04:And that you've always you've always operated that way. Yeah. Yep. So I mean, yeah. So how do you do that? How do you balance all of that?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's just the way that like my brain has worked my whole life. Like, I will my staff drives my staff nuts. Um, and it took me a while to realize that they've adapted to me. And so, like, today I was like, shoot, I left my laptop, I went to work, left my laptop, but my second meeting of the day was um a virtual meeting with one of our remote employees. So I um I messaged him and I was like, okay, I'm running 10 minutes late because I forgot my laptop. And he's like, typical Sadie, and like, but in a just way, like he wasn't frustrated or upset. And so when you were talking about reliable, I'm like, well, not if it involves time, but also I'm reliable to not be on time. Right. Right? I got a 10-minute window. They know I'll be there.
SPEAKER_04:You're consistent.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I'm consistent. And so they know it's not. I feel like the people in my life know that me being late isn't like disrespectful. It's that I try and jam-pack too much in. Like, even coming here, I'm like, okay, I'll see you at one, but I gotta stop and curl my hair, put on some lip gloss, get in my car. Oh, I better grab the mail. Oh, I should move my garbage cans back, and I still need to get a Dr. Pepper before I get here. So of course I'm not gonna be on time. Yeah. And Sherman is not a quick jaunt. So, you know, like just no spatial awareness. And it's just fine. I told my boss, I go, if you hire me, if you're ever gonna fire me for being late, don't hire me because I'm not gonna be on time.
SPEAKER_04:That's what I told the Kevs Depot when they hired me. Well, opposite, I'm like, not opposite, but different. But I said, if the till is off, you can't fire me. I'm not stealing money from you, I'm just really bad at math. And they were like, Yeah, that's fine. Um, so your mom was the art teacher, my grade school art teacher, and she's so eccentric and beautiful and lovely, and I think you get a lot of your personality from her. But what was it like having such a creative mother? Um, did you ever feel your creativity might be in her shadow because she is so she's done so much too?
SPEAKER_00:Um one of the things that I learned when I started working at Recovering Hope was I was working with the moms there, and I remember being like, just play with your kids, right? Like, you know, grab some toys or some crayons and just play. And I really had to take a step back because a lot of the clients that I work with, their parents didn't have that connection. Like my mom was an on-the-floor mom. If I colored on the walls, she was like, Oh, that's a masterpiece. Let's take a picture of it. You know, there was never like this lack of support around creativity. It was how can I help you be creative? Like, what can I get for you? How can I um navigate and not get like in terms of like gifts, but in terms of time and and space around that. And then there's a couple times where she'd, you know, I see her, she'd be like, if you do it this way, it's a little bit better. And I'm like, don't stifle my creativity. And we joked that there was a we made turkeys in like, I don't know, fifth grade or sixth grade. And I thought I made this really great turkey, and she thought that I half asked it. And so she was like, oh my god, and she's just critiquing it, and I was like, fine, I'm never doing art again. And so that probably plays a role on why I, you know, didn't really tell her I was gonna be an art major, because I also didn't necessarily want her feedback unless it was asked for. Um, but I I didn't see that connection with how I parent my own kids, is that I had a really good role model around how to play with children. And a lot of my clients have had experiences where their parents would leave them home with like the TV remote and maybe some cereal for like a week. And, you know, not having a vision of like what does it look like? So when I say go play with your kids, that's a whole other tool that they need to learn how to do of like, let me mirror this for you, let me show you what I mean, let me show you how to, you know, get crayons out in paper and actually color with your kids versus like throwing it on the table and doing something else while they're there. And that doesn't make someone a good or a bad mom. It means you're doing the best that you can with what you've seen growing up, and how do you change that generational cycle around that? Um, and so with my mom, I really truly see a lot of her skills and things that she mirrored for me and met my needs in how I want to parent my own kids. And I see her doing the exact same stuff with my kids, like to a little bit more extreme now, right? Like they've got my son won't let me throw garbage away because he has a garbage castle at my mom's house, which is not actual garbage, it's like cardboard that they've like created in this, like it's probably taller than me. He needs a ladder to get up there, which I'm like is genius. Cause my mom can be like, go paint your castle and get some free time because he's making this garbage look I don't know what it makes it look like, but um, or her whole basement is just full of art supplies, and so I'm like, Mom, I need Modge Podge for something I'm doing at work. She's like, let me go downstairs.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I feel like we should just get a camera crew crew following your mom around with your kids, and you know, this is how you can raise creative kids.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and both my kids are super creative, and like I always joke that my son is very salute, like he loves Minecraft, but instead of like wanting to play Minecraft on a video game, he's like, let's play live action Minecraft. And I'm like, Can you play any video game for a little bit? Right, like we're like, can I can I get a mental break? But we're live crafting or live um live action. Building yeah, and like building stuff and the way that his brain works, I feel like you know, people are using the word neurodivergent and using it almost negatively too. Like it's like a a defect. And I'm like, I know I'm neurodivergent in different ways because my brain thinks differently, but that's what makes me successful. Like, yeah, if there's a problem, I'm not like, oh, what's two plus two? It's four, like, and get stuck on like okay, well, it can't be four. Yeah, it can't be four. Let's make it six, you know, like figure out a way to to get there and to map out different problems, and that's where it's like we are good at pivoting, like in my workplace and in my personal life. And my son's like, pivot.
SPEAKER_04:Sick of that word already. Um, but no, 100%. I know what my superpowers are in my brain, and I know what I'm not good at, and I don't think that it's worth it to try and make the bad part better anymore. Like, I just need to accept what I'm not good at. Not good at math, doesn't matter. Yeah, really not good at math.
SPEAKER_00:I learned that when I went, I flew to Arizona to learn about, like, I don't even know what it was, but we were there and I was with my coworker, and it was the section on like using Excel spreadsheets for like data collection. And I'm like, I'm gonna go to the beginner class. And my coworker's like, You know more than a beginner, and I was like, I don't know about it. And what I learned. In that beginner class, was if you're in this role, all you need to do is have someone who's really good at this, and it doesn't have to be you. And I had another one of my boss right now, I was like, I gotta go back to school and get an MBA. Like, I don't know how to run a business, I don't understand pee and loss sheets, I don't know this part of it. And he's like, You don't need an MBA to do that. He's like, you need somebody that can teach you what you need to know. And I was like, where do I find that? And he's like, Me, like, I can help you. And I was like, Oh, yeah. So, you know, you have to find people that can help you with your things and your deficits that you have, but you also have to do a lot of reflection on like what aren't you good at? And like, what do you need to spend time improving? And what things can you just be like, I can hire this out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because when we were first building this studio, one of the guys did say, Well, you're gonna have to learn how to edit, and you're gonna have to learn how to do this and that. And I'm like, I already have an extreme full job. Yeah. Um, I don't think that I can learn that podcast and work on the creativity, which takes all week.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it takes a whole different part of your brain.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And do that. And I just want to spend my time on their creativity. And he was like, Okay, that's fine, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like that's how I've been with email. I'm like, no, but you need me over here thinking and creating it. I'm not, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's like tapping into that feminine energy more, which I think we all have to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about? I don't think so. Um, what is something that you hope your grandkids do when they're your age? My grandkids? Yeah, when they're your age.
SPEAKER_00:I hope they're like just creative, creative and don't lose their I call it my sparkle. Like, I don't want to ever lose my my quirkiness, my sparkle, my uniqueness.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like that's you know, I think people, you know, talk about like in high school where you get teased or bullied, and I wasn't teased or bullied, I feel like. I but you know, like, and then people lose that sparkle and they conform is finding that strength, and that's what I try and do with my kids too, finding people that love them for who they are and like have friendships for the the quirks and the uniqueness, because we can protect them in that bubble so that they don't lose that just because someone once told them, Oh, I don't like that. Like, don't I had a teenager once tell me, don't yuck someone else's yum. And I have like lived by that since he was like 10. And I was like, You have no idea how profound you are. Like, don't yuck someone's yum. Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_04:That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00:Don't do that.
SPEAKER_04:And when I wrote out words for you, how I saw you, but I didn't add them to that group. But my first word for you was bold, and I think that matches that, you know? Yeah. Is there something that you do right now that you hope your grandkids don't do when they're your age?
SPEAKER_00:I feel like they can learn a lot from some of the experiences maybe I've had, and just be like, eh, I don't need to, I don't need to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but that never works out. No, they always want to try it themselves too.
SPEAKER_00:I bet that was probably my fear of moving back to more of like karma's gonna get me.
SPEAKER_04:Like raising your kids in this town, and they're gonna do much worse, but I think they'll be good. Like how good James turned out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's given me hope to be honest. I'm like, uh, you know, kids these days aren't dying in the field as much as they used to.
SPEAKER_04:No, right? Okay, nine. Mm-hmm. So that's what I hope they don't do. Mm-hmm. Okay, well, I hope that you come back on soon. I'm glad we did this and um yeah, hope you had fun. Thanks so much.