Supernaut

Seasons: Healing, Hustle, And The Honest Work Of Being Human

• Supernaut

Share episode

A single Tom Petty track sets the tone for an hour of clear-eyed honesty: peace after pain, joy after heat, and the quiet power of calling “good” truly enough. We start with music and memory, then lace up for a blistering Hood to Coast—200 miles in record temperatures that teach teamwork, humility, and how laughter survives a smelly van. From there, we meet lifelong runners who redefine endurance, keep score by joy as much as pace, and remind us that saying yes can reshape a season.

The conversation widens into real life pivots: cutting way back on alcohol and feeling mornings return, holding space for a father in hospice with congestive heart failure, and finding a family rhythm that honors both grief and gratitude. We challenge hustle culture head-on—why productivity isn’t worth, how “good enough” soothes the nervous system, and what it looks like to track the wins you can’t see when your job is putting out fires. Practical tools land fast: eat the frog early, protect PTO, and write down the saves you made so your brain can finally believe your effort.

As days get shorter, we get specific about seasonal depression with strategies that work: bright light in the morning, vitamin D with medical guidance, accessible movement, and supportive therapy. We dig into ADHD as it shows up in women—masking, hyperfocus, shame, and designing systems that honor how your brain works. Imposter syndrome gets airtime too, along with Jung’s nudge to integrate the light and the dark. We close with a mirror from friends—empathetic, determined, insightful, joyful—and an invitation to keep one room at the top where rest, music, and honest conversations belong.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs gentler pacing this season, and leave a quick review so more people can find these tools.


0:00 A Song About Peace After Pain

2:30 Road Trips, Petty, And Nostalgia

4:56 Hood To Coast In Dead Heat

10:35 Community, Goonies Beach, And Joy

13:35 Two Halfs, Lifetime Runners, Perspective

19:40 Alcohol, Family History, And Change

25:36 Hospice, Grief, And Gentle Presence

31:20 Ditching Hustle And Loving “Good Enough”

38:45 Generational Hustle, Robots, And Worth

46:20 Balancing Life Maps And Real Fulfillment

49:30 Seasonal Depression: What To Watch

54:30 Practical Winter Movement And Comfort

1:00:25 ADHD Basics, Masking, And Shame

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Supernaut, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Today, Jen, our therapist, is on for the fourth time. What song did you pick for us to listen to this time?

SPEAKER_01:

I picked Room at the Top of the World by Tom Petty, and I'm just always a consummate Petty fan. So I chose one that is just a little more contemplative. Um, he apparently wrote it at the end of second divorce, and basically he probably finally gets to a place where he's got a little peace after some pain. Um he just talks about having this sort of view that everything's gonna be okay in the end. And I don't know, maybe that's sort of a little bit uh indicative of where I've landed here, but I've always loved that song. He's just it's got a really sweet. He actually stopped recording it. Uh he stopped playing it after a while because it just made him sad.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, because I think when I saw him in concert, I don't remember him playing it. And so I think it was probably like 2014 or 15. I had concert tickets, but I got in a car accident and couldn't go. It wasn't a bad one. Um, but then a couple years later, Katie Joe and I had tickets to go again, and I was sick, but I was like, I'm not missing it again because my luck he'll die. 717. He died three months later, so I'm so glad I went.

SPEAKER_01:

That is the one we missed out of seven. That makes me so sad.

SPEAKER_02:

And also, I hate that kids will never experience this. Like when I moved home from California, it was the only CD we had going through Utah and all those days, like no radio stations came in. So it was just over and over and over again. And like that was a beautiful part of Road Trips. Oh my gosh. And now kids like, you know, they have all their music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh, just listening to a CD, so you knew every single song on it.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I was just thinking this, I think that song was in I Know That I I Know Where I Lived and I Know That I only had Lily. So it was like 24 years ago at least that it came out, 23, two-ish years ago that it came out. Um, that I can remember some of the other songs on the album, but it wasn't a super popular album of his either. It was later, you know, much after his big, big fame. So, but that song was just always really beautiful. Yeah. You just want to be in the room at the top of the world, just not coming down. Like you're nothing's gonna ruin this peaceful feeling.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, beautiful. So last time you were on, you were just about to go do that race hood to coast. Crazy. How did I go?

SPEAKER_01:

Ugh, it was super crazily fun. Um far was it again? Really far. It was like 200 miles. Uh so that we started at the top of Mount Hood. 12 of us ran all the way out to Portland, uh, to seaside Oregon to the ocean. I am not a girl who likes to know everything about everything. So I like to surprise myself, I guess. Not be prepared. I don't know. I mean, that we'll talk about ADHD later. Um, but mostly I'm not I'm not gonna pour over a map and try to figure out exactly what I'm running. I'm just like kind of like, yeah, let's go. You're good at like trusting other people, like they got the plan figured out. Let me just go with the floor. Yeah, like I'll bring my stuff and I'll just run. Well, so I imagined our first runners running down Mount Hood and then we'd just be running out to the sea. But it's mountainous, right? So, first of all, it was the hottest hood to coast on record ever. It was a hundred degrees. It made like all the major news, national Jews. And I don't know if I said this, I'm sure I said it in the last uh pod, but I hate running in the heat. It's my it's my least favorite thing. It scares me. I feel like I'm just gonna drop dead. So it was hot. I was the first runner in the second van, and our runner, our like fifth runner came in, and we had just gotten to the big exchange, and I got out of the car, and I felt like I was getting out in a desert, maybe. I mean, it was the kind of hot where you're scared because it's so hot. And that runner came in and she was in tears because she had gotten so hot, and we hadn't figured out yet as a group that we had to follow our runners and bring them ice and water, like the whole time. Then secondarily, I gave us like my and my friend Heather's first two legs were marked very hard. And so that would have probably been a good reason to look at the course. They were very hard. This was just rolling hills, rolling farm hills, so there's no shade anywhere. It's a hundred degrees and it's and not like rolling more of farm hills, like rolling mountain farm hills, and I'm hot, so it's a slow one for sure. And then the second one that I ran was basically straight up a mountain, just a mountain, not just like a hill, like five miles, six miles up a mountain. So I could have maybe prepared prepared myself a little better, but it ended up being great. It was an awesome experience. We had so much fun. Um, we've done a bunch of Ragdars before. This was a great group of women. We had just, they were with so much support, and by the end, you're just goofy because you are tired, you haven't eaten. Dehydrated, your van smells bad, you're all like everyone just loses their stuff continuously. Like, who has my airpod? Does someone have my AirPods? Does someone have my keys? Can someone find my phone? Like at one point we had to like call my sister in Duluth to try to like track my phone, anyways.

SPEAKER_02:

You only know like two PayPal.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh I know I pretty much knew my whole van. I have done Ragnar's with these particular women other times, our van, but then the other van I didn't know at all. And so that was really fun. At the end, we ended up um in Seaside where they filmed Goonies. I can't think of the rock. Everybody should know this rock, you know, it's like the rock on the ocean. So we literally just run right out onto the ocean, and then it was beautiful. I have great pictures, so maybe I'll share one of those. Um, it was so fun. And then we hung out in you know, seaside and ate delicious seafood for the next couple days and hung out, had a nice VRBO, and yeah, it was a great experience. I was really happy I did it. And then this last weekend, uh, my friend and I from high school, I mean, not Amanda and I have been friends since like fifth grade. Uh, she's a crazy runner girl. And right when I got back from Hoodako, she's like, Do you want to do a half in October? So I said, Yeah, and I was like signing up for it, and then she sent another one. She goes, Should we do two that weekend? And I was like, No, this is a stupid, terrible idea. And then so we just did that. We signed up and did two.

SPEAKER_02:

And it wasn't that it wasn't that terrible because Do you wish you would have just done a full marathon in one day, or was it nice to do two halves?

SPEAKER_01:

It was really fun to do two because we both are kind of like empty, almost empty nest. She's an empty nester. I am down to Maya, and so it was fun to just have a weekend where you know, we had we ran in the morning, we hung out, we ate lunch, we shopped, and then we hung out in our hotel and had dinner and went ran again. Because why not? Yeah. Um, and we ran into some really fun um lifetime runners, like this couple, he was in his like mid to late six late sixties. He had run over 330 marathons. Um, he ran a 152 half, which I'm not gonna share my time because it sucked, but it was 20 minutes faster than the one I did in June. So I'm back to improving, but this guy just blew doors and was gonna, you know, he just has like a race every weekend that he runs pretty much. And then in our second half, um, we came up on this guy and he had a shirt on that said 50 marathons in 50 states. And my friend Manda has been trying to do that since I mean, I think it's been our goal since our 20s. So they had a big long chat about how we did it. He's done it twice, 50 marathons in 50 states twice. Um, he was like flying out to Bar Harbor, Michigan the next weekend. Or is it Bar Harbor, Michigan? Is that right? I think so. Maine. So he just is also doing just races all the time. And he we walked like a mile with him, and he had it was a looping marathon that half that we did. So we were on our last mile, but he had two more loops to go. So he had 13 left. And this dude is like, he's gotta be 72, so you can do it forever. Um, I wonder my love of running again.

SPEAKER_02:

Like did he always run?

SPEAKER_01:

I think so. He knew some guy who had done 2300 marathons, so like he's definitely running a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

How do you even keep track of that? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

I think you just have a brain like that. Yeah. Um, my friend, and this is not, I'll try to not this was funny. She's like, oh my gosh, like I'm never gonna be able to do it that fast. And then we kind of ran, you know, we had run ahead of it. And I said, Amanda, you just don't have enough like really bad trauma. Like when you are running this much, you are running from something like really awful, probably that's happening like or that has happened, or maybe not, or maybe it's just how your brain has worked out. But I do think that running is one of those things that you do to replace some other stuff sometimes, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

So for me, it has been so should I just like super talk shit to myself and then just never talk shit to yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

No, you should just tell yourself that you like it and it's fun and just start saying yes to challenges. Like if someone says, You want to go to run a half, just be like, Yeah, yeah, and do that. I don't usually say no to anything. Oh, good, then I'll start asking you. It'll be fun. Uh obviously, not drinking has been amazing. We had two beers after our race on Saturday, and that was it. But it wasn't 200, right? And I didn't have any more. Like the rest, like whatever the habit was in my brain is broken. So I don't go, I would really like a bottle of wine tonight. I just I don't drink. I might maybe have a beer after a race, or maybe I like it.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think you've talked about that on the podcast, have you? About drinking? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, maybe I haven't. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, just like a huge reduction in in how I drink. Which so now maybe on a special occasion, but I have not had I've not had a hangover since like July, which has been really nice. Uh and it would just become an easy habit to just, you know, always have drinks. But I'm just as happy like having a Diet Coke. So I think it started out as sort of a health, you know, like measure. Um and now it's now you're just I feel now it feels really normal.

SPEAKER_02:

I never have hangovers, I don't ever want one again. Ever. Yeah. I and I feel like at my age you can get one after two drinks.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for sure. And I grew up in a home with alcoholism, so my dad is an alcoholic. Like, I like to say the best kind because you know, this is what kids of alcoholics do. They like tell you how bad it wasn't. And you know, my dad is on hospice, so I don't like to talk bad about my dad. And honestly, if you had to have a dad who drank too much, I was glad I had mine because he also just worked too much and would come home and just hammer beers until bed, but not I mean, never DWI never missed a day of work like functioning. Uh, but it did, you know, it created stuff in our home that wasn't I wish it we hadn't dealt with. You know, sadness for my mom and you know, like the typical children of alcoholics, like feeling like, you know, I'm just better at everything. So we were really we tried to be really good at sports in school, and and he's a really loving, sweet human, but uh there was just that side that would choose to stand up at the Bolsom store and drink instead of coming home.

SPEAKER_02:

And so it felt like sometimes he was choosing that over you, and that's maybe why you excelled in the sports.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and in everything, because he had high expectations for us. But I did also get to, you know, I watched my mom be sad when he didn't come home. And my mom is the sweetest, kindest, most amazing human, and like watching her be sad was it was awful. Yeah, so she kind of had that sort of emotion, you know, empty sort of marriage. How's your dad's health now? You know, he's just rocking through hospice because he's really also easygoing, kind, um, sort of um, I would say moderate human. Like he doesn't get all cranked up about much. Uh he's doing well. He's can't really do anything. So he's got CHF, which is chronic, you know, his heart is broken. So as long as he sits in his chair, he can he could sit there all day. But as soon as he really tries to do anything, he gets very short of breath. And so from a this man has been, I mean, he hunts and fishes and works and you know, did is an outdoor and he's an outdoorsman. He would be out gross hunting, and he's never not spent three weeks at deer camp from start to finish. So it's we're getting into a season that's gonna be really hard to watch him not be my dad like. Um so I don't know, but it's been he's gracious, and we spend a lot of time out there, and we are lucky to have had this time, but he really can't do anything. I kind of grounded my parents who have not been they've been busy people all my life. You know, my mom is a busy gal, and so for her to figure out how to sit down a little bit has been weird. It's been weird to watch. But so far, okay. I just say that with trepidation because I think it also is probably going to happen quickly when it does like we are getting too used to it, it feels like, and some like you get the worry that all of a sudden something's gonna happen, and then you're gonna be like, oh yeah, yeah, this is what we've been doing. So yeah, yeah, so that's that for now.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, last time you were on, um, we talked about not needing to be on all the time. Yeah. Um, and right after we recorded, I got home and I realized I hadn't taken my laundry out. And I thought in my head, like, look how unproductive you are. And I was like, okay, at least I caught that thought. And then I was like, okay, nobody's gonna die. And then um, you know, like this doesn't need to spike my nervous system. No, you know, like why am I letting so many little things? And then um I came across this line right after that. It said, now that you don't have to be perfect, you can be good. And I was like, it feels good to be good. Good is enough, like good is good. Yeah, who needs perfect?

SPEAKER_01:

Nobody. Perfect is really the what is that? What is it saying? Perfect is the enemy of good, or is right? Good is the perfect. Good is the enemy of great, perfection is the enemy of good. I don't know. But it's like just hate the grind and struggle culture. I do, I hate it dearly because I think I and I can tell you the most common thing I see across the chair for me is just self-hatred and self-judgment and self-doubt, and a lot of it is just how hard we are in ourselves. We would never speak to our people this the way we speak to ourselves.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that deep-seated belief that I only matter when I'm productive or I don't deserve good things unless I earn them the hard way. Like, why is that so deep-seated in our brains? Well, so many reasons, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like our I think society has just pushed that narrative, yeah, in our families and our upbringings and hustle culture in general. And you realize that as women, we only in the last like 30 years, when who was I talking about this? Was I talking about Shannon? Convenience products like microwaves and ready to make food was all about preparing women to go into the workforce and still have their families and still do all the things at home. So super lucky we have made it now. We get to work and do all the things, like you know what I'm saying? So hustle culture is a thing. You can't just and it's gross and it's not helpful to people's actual spirits. We were not put on this earth to grind, right? It's dumb and it's easy to fall into, especially in your 20s and 30s, I think, when you have energy and you are you have goals and you're trying to like climb ladders, but I do think it can be super detrimental to like actually liking yourself and finding ways to be happy outside of productivity, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Like Katie Jo just said something about like our jobs are like so stressful, and everybody in our family like is like just buck up and do it, and it's like okay, if we were in a relationship that was this unhealthy and like you know, bringing us this much stress, yeah, like our family would be like, get out. Right, and it's like that's how much stress our bodies are under, our nervous system is like every time my phone dings, you know, it's like what is it?

SPEAKER_01:

Right, and just like and my guess is if you internally change some of that, there would be no difference in your productivity. Yeah, you will never stop doing what you need to do, but you might stop beating yourself up on the way to that.

SPEAKER_02:

It was like a president or somebody that said, I read a book every day, but on busy days I read two, or like I meditate every day for an hour, but on busy days I meditate for two hours because the more that you slow down, the more productive you will be.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

But nobody ever taught us that.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think America in General taught us that. This is not how we roll over in this side of the pond. Go to Europe. I mean, they get two months of vacation and they think we're insane or working the way that we do. And that's not to say, like, I grew up in a house where my dad worked, I mean, seven days a week most of the time. Maybe you'd have a Sunday off.

SPEAKER_02:

But there wasn't so many other things going on, and like your phone wasn't going off with emails and text messages, like you got home and you like relaxed or chilled or worked out in the woods, you know? Like now there's just so many demands from so many directions.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and before the demand was literally to survive. So that is why you know we we learned to hustle because we were probably brought up in places where people were surviving. So now we get to thrive because they survived. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you think the generation like under 20 has the hustle culture? Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_01:

I've worked with them, they can hustle. Um, yeah, I have a specific employee who's now she's probably not under 20 anymore. She's probably 30. Um, but she just came in like on fire. The girl could work anyone. I mean under the table. So, yes, I think every culture or every generation will have hustle. I think it's a human condition a little bit.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you think Silvana? Do you think your generation are younger?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um, I don't know about younger than me, but definitely my generation, younger millennials, elder Gen Z.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Because people are always complaining about the generation coming to that they're like, oh, they're not hard enough workers, and blah, blah, blah. And also, I mean, I think if robots are gonna be taking over everything in 10, 15 years, maybe that generation isn't supposed to have the hustle culture because they're gonna be creating and building coding, or I don't know. I don't know what they're gonna do. I don't know what any of us are gonna do, but like it's gonna be different. Robots are coming pretty soon.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they're already here. Yeah, that would be silly to think of.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, they're taking over jobs soon. Yeah, like you don't need a therapist, you're just like why would evolution AI evolution-wise, why would like 18-year-old boys right now need work at that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, first of all, to make them good. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00:

I went to Walmart a few weeks ago and had a very bad experience with a young cashier. And I was like, I f I felt old, I was like mad about it. I felt like my my grandpa who you know gave means about my generation.

SPEAKER_01:

But if I think about it, there are people in my own generation who I don't think hustle, right? And as much as I'm sitting here being like, I hate hustle culture, like I also have been a really hard worker. I also have a lot, I put a lot of like stock in how hard I can work, but that's and I don't like to see it like I think there's a difference between like just plain old laziness, you know, and finding a balance between constantly being on. That's insane and unnecessary. So there's balance and people have to find it. And also working really hard to not become old curmudgeonly about younger people because they're gonna wipe our asses in nursing homes. So that's hopefully they'll nursing homes will be gone. But I do want to believe that there's just a lot of skills they'll have that we don't.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, I think it depends on for the hustle culture, like if it's where your worth comes from or not. Right, you know, and I do have a deep-seated belief that my worth comes from working hard and I don't deserve good things. So, do you have that? Yes, oh, 100%, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, I've always had it. I grew up with it. My dad owned his own construction business. My parents went to work every day, every day, both my parents. And I had those were in the days when moms didn't on moms on the range, I don't know, maybe moms in other cool places worked, but my mom worked, and I didn't feel like a lot of other moms worked. So I had working parents. Um, and that's just what you did. I got a job when I was 14. I've never not had one. Not even not even for I mean I took maternity leaves, but that was it. It wasn't an easy job. So I actually feel like my job in therapy is really I mean, it's just strange to have a job where I'm not walking into like chaos and super insanity. But I get I walk out with all my notes done and I do what I need to do. So yeah, I I'm not I've tried to work on it because what if tomorrow my job was gone? Like I would still have to find my worth as a human and some other things. But that's all about that whole like ecomap, you know, you're in the middle and you have community and your work and your family and your life and the people you love and the things you love to do. And if you're getting super out of balance, you're not you're that's not fulfillment, right? It's just you and work, you're just gonna be kind of miserable.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you have to make sure you're filling those other cups.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because they matter, they keep you sane, keep you in perspective. So, like I have been at Wellia for a very, very long time, 26 years. So I have a lot of PTO and I don't always use it. But I get to this point in the year and I'm like, I need to take some time off. Like, I need to look at in my calendar, which I'm bad at doing it and have to do that mail job, and I need to plan some things. Schedule in me time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Schedule in some days off and yeah, but then like don't fill it up with other stuff if you like schedule it off, like be off.

SPEAKER_01:

I do okay there sometimes.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, all right, let's take some questions from the audience, aka Maina.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I thought that we could chat a little bit about seasonal depression since we're getting away. Oh gross just advice from a side. Yes. Um do you have any realistic coping mechanisms for those that are in an area like this?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Yes, I do. And first of all, it's awareness, right? So if you notice that and it I think it starts in, I think it can start as far back as August when the light starts to change.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel it.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like minutes a day. Oh my gosh, it's August 20th. It's the day that the the sun starts to look lower and different and everything starts to get that like different glow. My practical advice is notice first if if you are starting to, here's some of the things you notice. Um, not right away, but as we roll into the fall, sleeping patterns change and not so much more sleep, but people sleep more poorly because they think you get tired earlier in the evening, and maybe you're either like kind of not doing as much, or you're like napping earlier, or you're going to bed earlier, but you're waking up, and so there's like there's more insomnia in the fall, which is odd. So always notice sleep patterns, you know, eating patterns, and motivation and drive and mood.

SPEAKER_02:

Daylight savings, like strokes and heart attacks go up 20%. Interesting that weekend, because that's how much sleep matters and affects us.

SPEAKER_01:

And people's circadian rhythms are easy to throw off. So the practical advice is be aware. Don't just be like, oh, you know, I mean, if you get a little blue, that's one thing, but if it starts to affect you, if you know, if you have some compounded things going on, like other processes like grief or you're already struggling through some things, pay attention. Watch your mood, watch your irritability levels of irritability is another thing people miss when they're feeling depressed. Um, kind of, especially in males, a lot of times they'll come in just kind of angry and irritable, but it's really like the start of those seasonal depression symptoms. So the practical advice is vitamin D, like higher doses of vitamin D. Do your research, ask your doctor. I like sun, I like the use of lights, like so sunlamps, happy lights, I don't care how you do it. Um use them, especially at first awakening in the morning so that you get that sunlight like 30 minutes while you're waking up. And then if you some people speak with their physicians about like a low dose antidepressant for just October to March or April, depending on how affected you are. And other people will notice um anxiety increase. So, like waking up with anxiety is another symptom that you like start to have that dread or you can kind of like can't get going. So I think that's what seasonal looks like. And those are my practical advices. And always go to a therapist if you need to.

SPEAKER_00:

Um obviously you were a skier, as was I. Not everybody likes to be outside in the in the wintertime, but um it's always recommended to get fresh air and move through your body. How what would you do if you're not a cold weather person?

SPEAKER_01:

I would go to the walking path, like the Wellia Center. It's 25 bucks for the whole year. Um just go cruise around there, run or walk. I mean, there's other stuff. Uh yoga's restarting, so come to yoga starting next Tuesday. I think there's still the bar classes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think three times a year.

SPEAKER_01:

Join a gym. I don't care.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I think even just waking up and stretching or moving, putting on a song and dancing right away because then you get those hope molecule molecule activations jumping right when I wake up in the morning.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god, it's great.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I have one of the things I've not been able to struggle myself back into is morning workouts. I always used to be a morning runner, and I went, I got up one morning a couple weeks ago and ran, and my mood was so noticeably nicer and better and happier that you'd think that I could make that stick, but it's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02:

So usually I'm still running like at lunch or after work, but well, on another episode with you and I yeah, I was saying that. I was like, I ran today and I'm feeling a million, like a million dollars, and that's I haven't been running, and you can do it, you'll get there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm disappointed I didn't ride my bike as much this fall as I had wanted to. I think we only went once this summer. Yeah, I went a couple times, went in a really windy day, like a 15 on a windy day. It was really dumb. But it's being stubborn. But yeah, I don't care how you move your body, figure it out, like find somewhere, do something. I was even thinking about setting up just like a little home gym because I know how I feel on cold winter mornings, and I don't like to get in my cold car and drive places.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't like getting out of bed in the winter. Like I should have like a heater timed for an hour before I get out of bed to like start blowing on me so that when I get out of bed, it's like really warm in there. Like sauna temperature.

SPEAKER_01:

This seems like a really late fing to figure out in my life, but I never underdress anymore. The weather. I wear boots, I wear full-on jackets. I wore a jacket today and I don't even care because I am much more apt to like get the things done I need to do and not be miserable with a hat and mittens and a coat and boots. And I don't even know why that took me so much.

SPEAKER_02:

But I also hate being layered. Like I hate a ton of clothes on me. Do you like I'm a nudist at heart? I just like don't want to be bothered by clothes. Like bundled up. I hate it. Yeah. Feel claustrophobic. Except for I don't all I think.

SPEAKER_01:

But I hate being cold more. I was just gonna say I don't want to be cold more. Way more. Yeah. So I know I feel like everybody's got that like icky. We're headed into it kind of feeling. But it'll be fun. We get to have fall first and Thanksgiving and then Christmas and then I don't know. Then we're gonna need to talk about how to survive the rest of that because gross.

SPEAKER_00:

It just gets ugly. At least we'll have a new baby.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. Yeah. I know. He's he's gonna yeah, he's taking up a lot of brain space, Mr. Lewis. Uh my daughter Lily's a baby. So I think about him a lot. It's gonna be a fun distraction and just a fun little human in general.

SPEAKER_02:

First winter. First Christmas.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Hopefully he makes it here before Christmas. He's due on the 16th, so if he's gonna share a birthday with grandma, yeah. But yeah, that's exciting. I think people survive winter in like all kinds of fashions. Most it's just like bundling up, sitting on your couch a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

You're super hibernating badly.

SPEAKER_02:

Not feeling bad about like just laying around. In the summer I feel bad when I'm lazy. In the winter I do not know.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's been talked about more too, is just allowing yourself to rest because it's exhausting to be cold all the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Exhausting to trudge through I mean, it's exhausting to go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. So what are like what are good shows people are gonna watch this winter? What are series that everybody should be like? I think that should be a whole podcast. What are we doing this winter? What are we watching?

SPEAKER_00:

I just binge defending Jacob Sandpoint. Which came out in 2020. And what is it about? It's like a little mini-series of um a 14-year-old who is accused of murdering his classmate, and his dad, played by Chris Evans, uh was initially the lawyer on the case and then got kicked off. And it's crimey, thrillery. It's it's good.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, I'll put that on my list.

SPEAKER_02:

I started Severance. What is that? It's set because it's a thriller, so I haven't watched it in for like that's why I didn't want to watch it. But I've heard so many things about it, and like it's not very th thriller-y, but um, it is about these people that choose to have their brain or something in their brain severed, so then when they go to work, they don't remember their personal life, and their personal life they don't remember their work, and yeah, so that's super interesting. And not too creepy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

What is like what is what are they what are the benefits of severing well?

SPEAKER_02:

For some reason, the company doesn't must not want them to know what they're doing at work because they're like something on computers and like coding and they're like tracking numbers, and but I'm only a few episodes in. Interesting. But it's very yeah, very interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not motivated to watch TV at all. So maybe this winter I'll get it back. That's part of my ADD. So we were gonna talk about ADD.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, what's the difference between ADD and ADHD?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, ADHD is uh attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity, and then ADD doesn't have the H. So you're not so that's and and women, females can have mixed type.

SPEAKER_02:

So like physically hyper?

SPEAKER_01:

It looks physically hyper. It's the kid that you went to school with who couldn't sit down in his desk and he got in trouble all the time and he was always like, you know, bounced around the room and just being obnoxious. And if you were a kid who had the ADD without the H and or it didn't present forward like a lot of girls, that kid annoyed you because he made it harder for you to focus because you were trying to listen, you were overfocusing to make sure you didn't miss anything. And that bozo was pissing you off because he was getting in trouble all the time, and then everything would get stopped, and then the more disruption in the classroom, the harder it was for girls who were highly masking their sort of like goony little brains. Um, those were the kids that frustrated me the most. So I wanted to play with them on the playground because I was so bored.

SPEAKER_00:

They were the funniest and clown.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh, yes, and as I got older and was able to like manage myself and not be afraid of getting in trouble, they were always the kids I sat by. Yeah. Cause we like to laugh and not take anything seriously, and also all the rules. So do more boys have the age? I don't know what the breakdown is. I guess I would assume, but there are lots of girls with the mixed type. Um, but when there's you know, when there's no mixed type, it's harder to see, and especially in females because women are more socially trained to follow norms. So if they struggle to pay attention, they know how to sit there and nod. Right? Like they've watched enough people to mask, they're like, oh, I know what I'm supposed to do right now, and it's not run around the room and it's not blurt and answer because you know we've been this is how we this is how we socialize women so they also get missed. Um, and it looks it looks like a million different things. It looks like not feeling like you have a rule book for life, like other people, neurotypical more neurotypical people, seem to understand like the rules for timing and when you sign up for things and what how to plan ahead. And you're like, Well, I was just gonna show up. What? Like, why are we doing all these things distinctly for me when I had kids? I was like, why do these women have so many things in their baby diaper bags? Like, I just needed a diaper in a white because I am not an extra thing person because extra things make everything complicated. And you know what? The truth is, I barely ever needed any of that shit, nor did they. But if I started adding extra things, I would just get more scattered. So simplicity for me has always been part of my, which I didn't realize that I had ADD, right? I was I did really well in school, I didn't get in trouble, but I like to run really far, and that super helped. I'm way more organized. My brain feels like a plinko board when I go for a run. I can feel like ideas and things I need to do for the day, like organizing themselves.

SPEAKER_02:

It's crazy. I bet I do too. I just don't run enough to realize that. Yeah. Or because, like, yes, those days I'm so much happier. I know that, and that's probably because it's easier for my brain to organize things.

SPEAKER_01:

You probably had a matter of so then there's like hyper focus, which some people get. So, my sister's ADHD type, for example, is that if you walk into her closet, it's color-coded, it's short sleeves, long sleeves, medium sleeves, like that's me, yeah. So you have this really great ability to like get on a thing and not be not stop, like hyper-focused.

SPEAKER_00:

In that only, in that only, every other aspect of my life is yeah, could be falling apart.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but you did some really cool things, like right there. I remember when my sister got her diagnosis, I was flashing back to when she first had kids, and if she was doing something like loading the dishwasher, I would notice that she was not in the room, like she was just only loading only loading the dishwasher. Like the chatting would stop, and she would just get like hype. So now I know that she's really good at hyperfocus, which is how she can organize a closet from like you know, her brain, or she'll like organize us as a family. She'll send out a group text that is just like she will just bam, bam, bam, bam, bam through like every meal, what we need to bring, and I don't have that kind. I can if I really worked at it, but it would take me so much effort to do what she does effortlessly. It's beautiful. Like, you're a good organizer, Veda. I know you are. I watched you organize children from the time you when you were a little kid, you would organize all the games that you guys were gonna play. So when Veda came over, all my kids had like they knew the plan and they all followed the plan and they all had a really fun time together. Because Veda was just you do you don't know that about yourself. I can see you standing in the toy room, like making the rules for the game and being like, okay, then we're gonna do this and then we're gonna do that. The girls would just be like, My girls were like great followers, they're like, Yeah, let's let's do that. That's super fun. So yeah, yeah, I always just thought I was bossy, but that's not bossy organized.

SPEAKER_00:

As a child, I mean, my nickname was bossy boo-boo. And I think that was like for a while pretty detrimental to someone's self-esteem. For sure. Because it's you know perceived in a negative way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but then yeah, yeah, but it's just assertive, it is, and it's it's sort of like I need to or I need to use my special way that I order things so that I can understand how we're playing or what we're doing or how this week is gonna look. Because if you're trying to follow my order, I would drive you crazy. Yeah, I know my own order. There's a whole thing about systems too in 880 that happen. Um, like the way that I would do something would make sense to probably no one else, but I'm really good at it. I know exactly where my stuff is. I'm usually never like scrambling or hustling or like as late as you would think I would be, or like a peer. It's all happening inside my brain. But if you watched it, you'd be like, what in the fuck is she doing?

SPEAKER_02:

So, yeah, because my like stuff at home isn't organized in certain ways. Like, it's not like OCD-ish or anything like that either. Um, but at work, like that is my superpower, is just everything organized. Like, have this map system with all these different colors mean different things, and that's like my favorite thing to do is like decide where this person is going on the map based off the colors and stuff. Wow, that's super hyper focused.

SPEAKER_01:

And I can't get that out of my brain. Like, I can't get that from my brain into a system, or like I couldn't tell you how to do that, but I know that I can do it. So if I have a big thing like happening at the end of a week, I will kind of like make myself feel the pressure of doing things just because I feel like I should be, but I usually have it figured out before I do the things. Does that make sense? So I am not, I don't I remember being like you like think about things. Yeah, and I like remember being in college thinking, oh my gosh, like I'm definitely gonna fail this paper because I look at all of these other I was in social work school, so it was a lot of women like hustling, like writing papers like two weeks before, like working in study groups. I'm like, I must just not know what we're doing, like I must not understand the assignment. Bullshit. I would get an A every time. I just didn't have to put in the same kind of effort, it was different.

SPEAKER_02:

And sometimes at work, when I first started working at Sherman, like Devin or Steve would be like, How do you know that? And I'm like, don't know. I don't know. Just came from a spot in your brain that you just yeah, just like kind of figured it out. And like at every job I've ever had, I've just kind of been like to my bosses, like, Well, why aren't you doing it this way? And they're like, Oh, that's okay, let's try it. Like, yeah, I'm just really good at like because I'm really lazy, so I find the easiest way to do things, the fastest and easiest way to do things so that I can relax.

SPEAKER_01:

We're like never gonna say that again. Because that's not because you're lazy, it's because you're efficient. Yeah, I think I'm efficient, right? Yeah. So I remember when I went to college and all of a sudden I was getting a syllabus. It felt like they were letting me cheat. I was like, there's a what? There's a whole paper about when things are due and what they're supposed to be, and I can also miss six days. I'd miss the max days every time because I didn't need to be there. Because I already had the plan. And all the rest of it was static that would confuse me. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02:

But see, I couldn't do school because I can't follow rules and I can't read things that I don't that I'm not passionate about. Maybe I think they're stupid, but well, because I can't bake, I can't put together an IKEA. Like I put together one IKEA thing in my entire life, and it was artists. This girl, I cried the entire time, and I will never put myself through that again.

SPEAKER_01:

For what?

SPEAKER_02:

Putting together like IKEA, like reading directions. Um, yeah, so my new therapist, which I'm like obsessed with our first session, he was like, Stop, did you have you ever been diagnosed with ADD? And I'm like, No. And I've taken some tests, but I don't, you know, they always say like mild. But um, he brought me back to like, yeah, kindergarten, first, second grade, where yeah, all the kids would get up to go do something, and I like didn't know what was going on, and I couldn't focus and I couldn't pay attention, and that's my biggest thing now, too. Or like I felt like a bad person my entire life. Oh, yeah, because I can't fall like like no matter what, no matter what, listen to what they're saying.

SPEAKER_01:

And let me tell you what the connection between shame and ADD and ADHD is so huge because you spend a lifetime feeling like you failed. You didn't do things the way the neurotypical people and they just make it look like they have rules and order that you don't know, you don't understand. Like, did I not listen? Was this my fault? Did I miss something? Or you miss things and you're like, oh gosh, I totally didn't catch that. Because you know why your brain doesn't work the same. So you end up like like internalizing all of this, like an imposter syndrome and all the shame and all the like I didn't do this right, I don't know how to do this. I remember distinctly thinking truly that this amazing mom who I love dearly in this community who was very like neurotypical, very highly organized. I just thought, where is she getting this book that I do not understand? And I just didn't know you had to sign up for swim lessons in January, guys. What the heck? Like I just it was it was a hard knocks and it made me feel you know, just made me feel shitty. And now I'm just really happy I was who I was because I think if you asked my kids, they'd be like, We had we had a really fun house. Like we read a lot of books and you were I'm sure that I was a really fun house. Did I have a fun house? I feel like it was overstimulated sometimes and like whatever, but it was wild in there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so you just can't compare.

SPEAKER_01:

No, yeah, but you internalize those things and you go, oh, I wish I had a really organized Aper Bank. But I often felt like I was missing what I was supposed to know.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's just wild how many different sides there are to ADHD.

SPEAKER_01:

And neurodivergent.

SPEAKER_02:

Like so many things can mean that you have it like the opposite of each other, and and I know that there's like buzzwords right now, right?

SPEAKER_01:

So we're like all about talking about neurodivergence and ADHD and AU ADHD and autism, but it's really fair that we're sort of you know shining the light on the fact that feeling like you think differently is real. That's real. You really, yep, you did. You think you had a little bit different process.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, again, maybe we are evolving because robots are gonna take over and we're not supposed to work so hard, we're supposed to be more creative, and so that's maybe why the more creative people are coming out.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe all I could think was just really wanted Rosie, the robot from the Jetsons, a lot really bad because I hated to get ready in the morning. And they could just like roll through their closet and Rosie would do all the things. That's not laziness, I don't think. Maybe productive if I shot. Speaking of lazy though, like if you want to see how like adorable lazy can be, if you're not watching videos of pandas, I don't know what you're doing. Like, I really don't. They are the cutest, they have ADHD. Cute, like their trainers can like never get a hold of them because they're just literally rolling all over the grass and like falling out of chairs and like please watch pandas when you're sad because they're making really well. Okay, no well, that's what I know about pandas and ADHD. See, that's ADHD.

SPEAKER_00:

No, but it makes sense, it does.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, well, and I feel like for a long time the thought was everybody's getting Adderall and everybody's ADHD, but now it's like it's super hard to get on medication. I mean, I know multiple people that have spent for sure, like$5,000 working with doctors.

SPEAKER_01:

I would have a long commentary on that, on the industry and what we're sort of doing there, but it's just gonna get boring and long. So I don't know. There's a lot of you know, there's a lot of ideas about how to treat it. And then there's a lot of people who have ADD who end up treating it and then don't like it. So there's a lot to be said for managing sleep, exercise, um, just figuring out ways to sort of trick your dopamine. And then, and I'm not I I am all for medicating, but I'm also all for knowing that it's there's a process. Yeah. And it's not all medication. Part of it is learning what works for you and what doesn't work for you. It does not work for me to put clothes into my um drawers because I will forget they're there. I will never wear them again. I can take my favorite shirt, throw it in a drawer, never see it again. Here's a for instance, if I borrow you a sweater, it's yours forever. I will never know you have it. If I borrow a sweater from her mom from Shannon, she will know I have it and I will not lose it. She'll be like, hey, do you still have those shoes you borrowed in like 1937? I'll be like, holy fuck, I have no idea where they are. But her brain like catalogs things.

SPEAKER_02:

Isn't it? It's so exciting to go through your drawers then because you're like, oh my god, new shirts. I forgot about that.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But then I also buy so many of the same shirt, or like basically the same thing. I didn't know I had that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, clothes are a consistently overwhelming place for people with ADD.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, be like Steve Jobs and just wear the same thing well every day.

SPEAKER_01:

Don't you kind of do that?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, yes, in a way, it's always but then also I'm like, that's too boring. I I need to change it up, be creative.

SPEAKER_02:

I went through my entire closet like five hours a couple days ago, and my whole car is full of stuff to bring to one more time. But also, I'm like, oh my god, I can wear this outfit and this outfit and this outfit. And everybody at work is gonna be like, How many outfits do you have? And then, like, realistically, no, I'm gonna keep wearing the same sweatshirts over and over and over again. But I'm gonna try.

SPEAKER_01:

I was so this is a sweater I just pulled out today, and I was so close to just putting on this other same sweater that I wear all the time because I don't know. Yeah, it had things about it.

SPEAKER_02:

It's familiar, it feels nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

What if I don't like it? What if it annoys me?

SPEAKER_02:

Any other questions from the audience?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, I wanted to maybe chat a little bit about imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_01:

Um if you have any thoughts about it. I have ideas about imposter syndrome. Do you have do you feel like you have imposter syndrome yet?

SPEAKER_00:

Um every time I look at the definition of it, my brain can't wrap my head around it.

SPEAKER_01:

About what it feels like.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

What it is like to have it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like so I feel like I have imposter syndrome about having imposter syndrome, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it could because you might just not have it. Because you have like a you I've always thought you have a strong character, you have a strong, like, you had maybe this has changed, but you've always been a very confident girl. Imposter syndrome may not be your thing. Imposter syndrome comes like very hand in hand with some neurotypical, like neurodivergent sort of stuff, because you're like, I'm doing such a good job of looking like I have this mask on and like doing all these things, but deep down you're not really sure that you're ever doing it right that or that people are gonna find out that you're actually like you know, gonna go open your car door and like all of the garbage is gonna fall out. Whatever. That's imposter syndrome is sort of like that.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like can you get over it?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely, yeah. I had it probably in my early 30s and I don't have it at all anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think it ebbs personally, I think it ebbs and flows, yeah, depending on what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure, if you're doing brand new things or you're just getting proficient at something, you're gonna feel like there's a good chance people are gonna notice that I'm actually not as good as I'm trying to appear or whatever. But I think sometimes mastery helps with that, and it's also just a feeling, so it does come and go for sure. And then deep-seated like self-worth issues and shame make well, that's where I feel better.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm like, is it or am I just finding or is it just because I find my worth at work? You know, because it's just like do they think I'm working hard enough? Do they, you know, are they gonna find out that I took a lunch? You know, who takes a lunch? Right, right. Oh yeah, I did that for years. Yeah, yeah. I'm in I'm in that right now. Yeah, ew. Yep. Mm-hmm. Or and it's almost like FOMO, like, because if I'm like, okay, I've been here a couple hours, I'm gonna go home and do a run and then come back, but it's like, what am I? I'm gonna miss things. Yeah. Like I have to be here.

SPEAKER_01:

Cause this is a very like moving, breathing, living sort of space where everything changes like minute by minute.

SPEAKER_02:

If I go home for an hour, like so many things could happen. And I might get back to just like so many things, like so many people on fire. We're like, I can't breathe until these fires are put out.

SPEAKER_01:

So does that let us I mean, does that do you have do you think you have imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know if it's that or just like shame.

SPEAKER_01:

It's probably a little bit about yeah, it could just be the shame causing you to feel like a big fat failure. It's the worst. It's none of it's true. I mean, yeah, you should know the difference between you're actually shitty at something and when you're just feeling like you're maybe not as good as you think, because there's a difference. I remember having a conversation once with your mom. Um, and I don't know if this is shortly after she started being a therapist. And I know that your mom is a good therapist. I mean, she's been therapizing me for 25 years. So the fact that she would ever consider that she wasn't doing a good job was just mind blown.

SPEAKER_00:

To this day, she's like, I think I'm awful. And back when I was still working at the treatment center, like not a chance. Every patient, every single patient comes up to me and gushes about you. I've never had one person complain. Yeah, even people that start to complain, then mid-sentence go, yeah, but I just love your mom. Yeah, like she is probably the biggest imposter syndrome person that I know.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I think so this leads to a bigger, sort of like maybe a different podcast because I love this topic, but we're not comfortable with the dark parts of ourselves very much, you know. Jung, Carl Jung said, like, you have a dark and a light, and you gotta figure out how to make them work together because you're never getting rid of them, you're not getting rid of your dark shit. That's not that's not what you get to do as a human. You get to like not always go there, you get to not use that. But if you don't want to admit that it lives there and it has a purpose, it's gonna haunt you. It's gonna haunt you for sure. You cannot be light all the time. That is bullshit. And then you're just I mean, making friends with that darker part of you makes you more authentic. Like you that doesn't mean that you're like, I'm not saying like it's all your bad traits, but being your dark parts are just they're necessary for not only your survival, but your authenticity and being who you really are. Like being real means you have shit. Yeah, love those darkness, hug them. Yeah. Like tell them they belong here. Tell them they're probably what made you survive. I don't even I'm a big ig with positive psychology. Don't even with me. Do not tell me to smile every day. I will punch you in the face.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the other thing I realized about this job is like it is just putting out fires all day. So it's like you can't see your productivity. Like when I worked at Lakes and Pines and processed applications, and every Friday at the meeting, I would get a round of applause because I got the most for the week. Like every single Friday, no matter what. I worked there for two years. I don't think there was ever a week where I hadn't done the most. But then you can see it. You're like, okay, in this job, third you can't see it because you just kniffed a bunch of bad things happening. And like bartending, like, yeah, I know I'm good at this because I just made$500. Like, you know, people aren't gonna tip me if they don't think I'm doing a good job. You know what I mean? But here it's like there's nothing to show that you did a good job, there's nothing to measure that you just avoided things, right?

SPEAKER_01:

So sometimes so somehow you have to figure out a way to and probably part of it is like just writing it down.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Noticing things that you did that maybe saved trouble down the road. Yeah. Because you didn't have trouble down the road. That's what you did. It's just harder to measure, it's harder to see. Sort of like putting a positive filter on what you're doing instead of you know, we're always looking for problems, but you found solutions and then you saved problems from happening. It's just hard to measure. Yeah. So you can figure out a way to do that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think maybe at the end of the day I could write a save or like I could write everything that you did that day. Yeah. You could every day ask me, what did you do that was productive today, Beth?

SPEAKER_01:

But you're already gonna not know it unless you're starting to notice it.

SPEAKER_02:

No, for sure. Well, I mean, I'll be like, I have no idea what I did today.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, pretty much. We had to do these dumb things, and I hated them at the time, but I think this is helpful. It was called a time study. So for every hour of your day, you had to like write what you did, basically. And they were always annoying and they always kind of went nowhere. Sorry, well, yeah, leadership, I love you all. But it was interesting and eye-opening to be like, holy shit, did I do a lot today? You know, and then it's okay if you had a day where you didn't do a lot, because this is what I could not have said more times to my crew, my social work crew. You know, like I enjoy this kind of work in healthcare, we don't say the word quiet, right? So I'd be like, enjoy a quiet day once in a while because I promise you I I would watch them work so insanely hard on the other days. Yeah. But like you get to have a quiet day. Like, as your leader, please take this quiet day and do wise things with it, but also like enjoy that. You deserve it. We don't have to, we're not hustling every freaking day.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, but I think your nervous system is like used to being at a certain level. But and I have heard of the theory of the one thing theory or something like that. Like just get the one, just get the big get one thing done. Like pick your one thing and then just get it done.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you have to like eat the yeah? What are you eating? It's something it's something big and eat the frog. Eat the frog, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So do your thing, do your one thing like right away that is really I but this is like even if you only if that's the only thing you get done today, like at least get that done. Yeah, yeah. When you have that type of job, that it's hard to measure.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

So, what would be your frog? Did you eat a frog today? Um, yeah, because I had a really, really tough conversation. And I was channeling my brother Steve, I felt like I told a couple people that I'm like, I wish other people could have seen me have this conversation with this person because I was doing so good. I was like listening, and then instead of like like this person intimidates me, so I was scared that they would like say these points and I would be like, Well, I don't know, yeah. But I was like in it. I was like, no, that doesn't make sense because of this, this, and this. So yeah, it was really good.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, congrats. How did it feel?

SPEAKER_02:

Really good.

SPEAKER_01:

Good. I love that you channel your brother, your big girl. That's funny.

SPEAKER_02:

I was just thinking about my big sister who's and then the other thing is I didn't even tell him about it. So when I saw him, I wanted to tell him, like, hey, I had this really hard conversation and it went really well. And well, it was bad for a long time, but after an hour it worked out. But the other proud thing is like he just doesn't even need to know, you know? Oh if it gets brought up, it'll get brought up. But I don't need to overshare. Bring it up. Yeah. Because I do overshare because I really like to talk. It's my current thing. Right. Yeah. But you were saying your sister.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, my sister my oldest sister is uh just really she's been a successful um uh so she started out with a social degree social work degree when she was young and then she like jump ship like pretty much by the time she was 24 and went into IT and she's been a CEO and a leader and like you know she's just been she's done really well in her career, and so I channel her when I have to be like I also channel her because there are big sisters and brothers, like they're clearly smarter than us, rude. I know they just have a thing that the babies don't get, but then we have things they don't get, so yeah, you do, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Totally, yeah, okay. Well, I had you um pick some people, our tribe, oh boy, um, to describe you in six to seven words each. So that's we have a group of there's ten of us, gone on some trips and done some things, and so I asked all of them and uh came back in four themes. Most of the time I do five themes, but your themes are so strong, like it was just four categories. Do you want to guess? No, how people see you? No, I do not. Nope. Well, the first one puke.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, before we do this, I when I was in high school, I remember having this long, elaborate, and this is how I should have known I had ADD. I had a long, elaborate thought thought bubble. Maybe it was like something I really wanted to happen. I wanted printouts of what people thought of me, what they said about me. I wanted to have like a future book that showed me who I was gonna marry, what my kids were gonna be. Like I played MASH.

SPEAKER_02:

Did you play MASH?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, of course. Like I liked I wanted to like I didn't feel like I understood myself very well, so I didn't understand how like I appeared to other people.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I would have to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

It was always a big struggle for me to like understand how I was perceived. Yeah, and it's like I just always saw this like five foot ten, 135-pound girl with short pants on, you know, like awkward and like duh.

unknown:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so I've always tried to just let that go of like, oh, I don't need to know how people think of me. But I like this process because I think it is really nice to build our confidence and see how people see us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and it's different now that I'm old. Like I can take the worst, I would expect the worst.

SPEAKER_02:

In fourth grade, I asked my parents, or maybe it was fifth grade, um, to call the school and tell them, well, put cameras in first. You have to put cameras in my classroom and then call the school and tell them that I died so I could see how everybody reacted. Oh bad. So funny. That's so cute. Okay, so your first word is empathetic. Three people said empathetic, and three people said compassionate, also caring, tenderhearted, understanding, big-hearted, generous, kind, personal therapist, and mama bear.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh.

SPEAKER_02:

Your second word is determined. Couple people said determined, also diligent, ambitious, preserving, energetic, headstrong, adventurous, gutsy, wild, extreme, athletic, and bold. And then insightful, wise, perceptive, inquisitive, intellectual, and thoughtful. And then joyful. Fun, funny, talkative, hilarious, enjoyable, radiant, affable, infectious, beautiful, free-spirited. And I had AI do a synopsis. You're the pulse of connection, the steady heartbeat, and the wildfire.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that is so sweet. Say that again.

SPEAKER_02:

You're the pulse of connection, the steady heartbeat and the wildfire.

SPEAKER_01:

That makes sense.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I want like that is so touching. Truly, you just don't. I don't know. For all the times I talk about being kind to yourself and all the things, that was that was a new experience.

SPEAKER_02:

I was scared it was gonna be too obvious. Cause like obviously obviously you're empathetic, like, you know that about yourself. Like, you know you're determined, you know you're insightful, you're a therapist, you know you're joyful, but it did it still nice to hear from other people.

SPEAKER_01:

It was amazing because just like this is leads well into imposter syndrome, which I sort of smugly sat over here and thought, you know what? I really kind of got over that, and then I heard this, and like, oh, people really think that about me? Like, idiots. I mean, goofballs, like they're all just being nice, and you know that I'm just a big old frog inside, but yeah, no, it was really powerful. I want to use it with my clients because that's how powerful it was to hear. I just think there's something so powerful about hearing what other people see.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, when I first had the idea to do this, and I went around and I was like asking people and a couple guys at work, even like, should I do this? And they were like, I remember this one, like, you know, manly guy who just been like, Yeah, I think everybody wants to know how people think of them. I'm like, okay, good.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't want it to just be a me thing, you know? Well, yeah, I think you know, some of us spend a lot of time like trying to work their way out of giving a shit what people think of you, especially if you gave too many shits about that. So that is where I was coming from. But these are people that I care what they think of me deeply.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, exactly. That's I've been saying that for many years of I don't care what the general population thinks of me. I can't because if I did, yeah, that would have killed me in my teen years. Um, but I care what the people I like think of me because I like them so much. Yeah, obviously I want them to want to spend time with me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would like to have my good traits be like in front and helpful.

SPEAKER_02:

I wanna have traits that are good for people because everybody around me has traits that are good for me. So yeah, cool. I really liked it. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, anything else we want to talk about today? I like how I show up, and then I'm just like, oh, I don't know what I want to talk about, and then you we can't shut up.

SPEAKER_00:

And these pods are gonna go away so quickly, too. Yay!

SPEAKER_01:

I know, yeah, so great.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, until next time. Thank you.