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Still Running: The Slow Fight Against Parkinson’s

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A song sparks a journey into grit, solitude, and what it means to keep moving when the ground shifts under your feet. We sit down with Dick Bjork—husband, father, carpenter, business owner, and ultra runner—whose love for technical trails on Minnesota’s Superior Hiking Trail prepared him for a very different race: living with Parkinson’s. From five-minute miles and family race weekends to the 103-mile grind with 24,000 feet of vert, Dick maps the habits that built his resilience and how those same tools now help him manage balance issues, voice changes, and the mental weight of a progressive disease.

We unpack the unexpected path to diagnosis, why Parkinson’s is far more than a tremor, and how dopamine affects mood, motivation, and everyday decision-making. Dick gives a candid look at identity shifts—what it feels like when a craftsman questions his hands, when a singer misses his voice, and when a social person starts to avoid crowds. He also shares practical, hopeful strategies: the Big Three of exercise, diet, and sleep; waypoint thinking to tackle hard days; and choosing trails, family dinners, and mountain goals that create meaning now instead of someday.

This is an honest, grounded conversation about endurance and adaptation. You’ll hear how to separate dangerous pain from noise, how to build motivation when apathy bites, and how to talk to friends living with Parkinson’s without walking on eggshells. If you’re navigating chronic illness, supporting someone who is, or simply looking for a sturdier way to face hard things, this story offers both compass and company. Subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the tactic you’re taking into your next hard mile.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Supernap, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Today we have on Dick B. York. Dick is a husband, father, skilled carpenter, business owner, but his extraordinary skill was to not only have the grit, but the conviction to be an ultra-marathon runner. Now, with that same grit and conviction, he is facing something even harder: the diagnosis of Parkinson's disease. Dick, I asked you if we could listen to a song together before we started. You picked To the Mountains by Leslie McAlpine. Why did you pick this song?

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I heard the song a little over a year ago. Um, my son and I were getting ready to take a trip to the Bighorns in the Cloud Peak Wilderness, and I heard that song play, and it was so perfect, I picked it as like the theme of our trip. And I just really like it. I love the mountains. And um so yeah, so it was just it was just fitting, and it it really um connected with me.

SPEAKER_01:

That line, I've got to do this on my own. It's like that's so much about being in the wilderness and running, and a lot of what you are going through right now, I think.

SPEAKER_03:

There's so many things that um you you face and ultimately they're you're you're by yourself, even if you've got family around you, whatever, it still feels very internal, very um, very much um self-focused.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we can have so many people around us, but if we're not okay on the inside, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. You have to take care of yourself. I think there are certain things that you just nobody can heal for you, they can be supportive for you and stuff, but um you really need to have inner inner strength, I think. Yeah. And I don't want to drag people down as well. Um so yeah, it was the whole theme, I guess, of that song to me is just it's a it's a place of comfort and escape, perhaps, as well.

SPEAKER_01:

It was so beautiful. It's I would encourage everybody to find that song and listen to it if they haven't.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Very beautiful. Thank you. So let's get into the running first. So in high school, you're in track and you were just doing sprints, but then for school you had to run them mile and you run a few class. Yeah. And you run a five-minute mile, and you're like, hey, maybe this is kind of my thing. So you got obsessed with running after that. In college, you didn't really run, but after that, while you're starting in a family, you're kind of running once a week every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Then you get to your 40s and you decide to sign up for a 50k trail race. Not just a 50K, but a trail race.

SPEAKER_03:

And as I trained for it, I decided I was gonna go all in and go for the longer distance just to make it interesting. And and did it and just loved it. It was up at Lake Superior on the Superior Hiking Trail.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

The race is, and um, it's just one of my favorite places in Minnesota is the North Shore. And I all through high school I used to go up there like every other weekend and camp and run. And um, it's just been a it's just been a real connecting place for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so if you're gonna run a race, might as well be someplace that you love and the scenery is good.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, and then we make it a family thing where the kids came up and the uh uh Caribou Highlands Lodge is the finish line for the race, so you start down the trail and then you run to um Caribou Highlands, and your family can stay there and you're at the destination, so it's kind of a destination event, and it's just it's been a really positive thing um for our family to go up and enjoy the races and enjoy the north shore and um yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So, how many uh did you do until you were ready to do a hundred miler?

SPEAKER_03:

Um I did a number of trail marathons up there. I did um 1050 Ks and I did five 50 miles on the trail um before I decided to bite off a hundred. It's actually a hundred and three, which people laugh. The three, but it makes a difference because when you're at a hundred, to the thought that you've still got three left is daunting, and the last several miles of the race are all very hilly. The whole thing is super hilly. There's incredible, like 24,000 feet of vertical gain in the hundred mile. Um so it's it's pretty intense.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you get out of an ultra that you don't get out of a 5k?

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I think it's the build-up, the the training and the anticipation is huge. And I I love to train, and so I love to have an event that warrants the training and um 5K's, most of the 5K's races, and certainly you can pick and choose because there's a lot to choose from, but that's like the race distance that I ran in cross country in high school, and so it's like a it's like a sprint, and I don't train for that. I hadn't trained for speed and found that I was better at long duration events and was much more competitive the farther it got. I think honestly, the 50 miles was my best distance. I was the most competitive at 50 miles, and the the harder the trail the better. Um so superior hiking trail is very technical with lots of roots and rocks, and so it's it's interesting. I ran a couple of the races where you'd run with people who had never run on the course before, and you were running alongside them, and they're like looking at their watch, saying, Gosh, I'm just running so much slower than I normally do. And you know, I'll tell them it's like if we continue at this pace, you'll you'll be like in the top five in the race, and they're blown away. But it's one of those things you just can't go as fast on the terrain.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you have to be so conscious of your footwork. I know when I've ran in trails, you can't just turn your brain off and run, you have to be thinking about your feet.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, yes. And it's you have to lift your feet up really high, and your the the ability to feel your way along the trail is your proprioception. It's called where you feel the terrain and you adjust to it. And that's one of the things that's been affected by Parkinson's, is my balance. And it's one of the first things I noticed was that when I'd put a foot down, it felt like I wasn't prepared for the terrain change, like small little dips and divots and stuff like that. I was starting to notice that I didn't have it, and I used to have incredible um ability to run trails and rough, rocky stuff. It's amazing when you watch somebody that's good do it. You can't imagine how they can go that fast over that terrain. And it's just kind of a dance. Um, but um, yeah, so where were we?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, did you do any hundred milers that were not um trail races?

SPEAKER_03:

I didn't. I did I did superior twice, and the second time was kind of to validate that I could do it. It wasn't a fluke. And I certainly, so 2016 I ran the first one and completed it within the cutoffs, and then the following year, a good running friend of mine was gonna do the hundred for the first time. And so I paced him, which is pacing, which is running alongside with somebody for a designated section. So you might run for 15 or 20 miles and then switch off. After 50 miles in the 100 race, you can have a pacer, they're called, but they're really just kind of a support person. And it's it's super nice. They they can take the the lead in the trail for you. Um they remind you to eat and do all that stuff, and it's just such a remote course. You're you're largely by yourself the whole time because you're stretched out over a hundred miles of trail, and people's times are also different when they stop and how long they stop at aid stations dictates where you are in the course.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but what does your brain do during that time? Are you obsessively thinking or does it shut off?

SPEAKER_03:

You know, one of the good things and the bad things you're talking about, the terrain and the footing, you end up having to look down a lot at your feet. So it's it's amazing how much stuff you can miss, and it's more being immersed in the environment. And that's where I haven't done like a road hundred miler, and that would be incredibly difficult to me, I think, just because your mind is occupied when you're running a technical trail. With the nature, yes, you have to with the nature and with the terrain, what you're going over varies so much that it it takes your mind off of yourself to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_01:

Always have a connection to nature. I mean, maybe that's a prerequisite for runners, like because they can think about the nature instead of the fact that they're running so hard.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I I I had run road marathons and stuff before, and it just didn't have the allure of running in the mountains or running on the trails. And as a kid, we had a big area around our house that used to be a county park, and there were hard dirt trails for miles in this area, and there was nobody on them. And so as a kid, I would run those trails and just had a blast doing that, and it carried over into once I started running in high school and going up to the North Shore all the time, it just it just fit, and um, it's fun to go to a different area and not have it be so so scripted, I guess. And you're talking about the footing, you know, you don't even have to lift your feet up. I I ran a lot on a treadmill recently, and it's amazing you you get into the habit of lifting your feet like a quarter of an inch above the revolving deck, and that's so bad for trail running because you you're not picking your feet up anymore, and it's not this perfect surface. But I give a lot of credit to the people who are able to run. Um, there are there are some races that are distanced by time, so that they might be a 12-hour race or a 24-hour race, and the point is to run as many miles in that time period, that time slot as you can. And a lot of times they're done on a track or a neighborhood loop of like a mile to two miles. And to have the mental toughness to do that is a whole nother, it's a whole nother discipline, really. Um, because that's so hard on the mind to to grind, grind away. And it's amazing what what you can you can do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the mental toughness because I want to run, but to get myself to actually do it, where do you think that comes from for you?

SPEAKER_03:

I think I've found over the years there were a lot of times I didn't want to run, the weather was bad or whatever, and I've predominantly run outside. I did a a science, um, I'm trying to think of the words for it now, but uh um it's called Sparks. It's a it was a Parkinson's program, a test uh study, uh, exercise study, I should say. And they had you run on the treadmill, and so I did that a lot more, but um I think once once you get out the door, making yourself get out the door is the hardest part. And once you accomplish that, you're kind of all in. Because I mean, you know, I find if I'm 100 yards out and I'm thinking this is gonna be horrible. I I've I've learned over the years to give myself like two to four miles of running before I pull the plug on a run. And inevitably, 99% of the time, by the time I've got the two, three miles under my belt, I'm good to go. And then the run gets better and better, and I always feel so good when I'm done that it just self-quantifies the need to press on. And I will say I I'm struggling now to have that motivation to get out the door, and I relate a lot of it to Parkinson's, but it's probably just getting older and lazier too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for me, if I just say I'm gonna walk, but in the back of my head I want to run, if I just tell myself I want to walk, I'll always end up running and like wanting to and feeling great about it.

SPEAKER_03:

Sure, sure. And it's a good way to start out running too, is to to walk a bit, run a bit. And I think that's the best way to start even a running program is walk for a while, run for a short distance, maybe 30 seconds or a minute, or adjust it, or just do it by feel. A lot of times, if I'm running a hard run with a lot of contour to it, I'll run like all the downhills and the flats, and I'll walk, hike the up the uphills. And I I find myself setting up a waypoint, so I'll see a tree up there, and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna run this hill that leads to that tree. And then when I get to that tree, it's like, oh, I can go to the next feature and continue it on. And so it's just a mind game. It's a mind game, but I think the rewards that I get when I get back and I feel so much better. Uh, a lot of the tension of the day and everything is gone. Um, it's just it validates my effort and reminds me when I don't want to go, that yeah, I should go.

SPEAKER_01:

What did running that far teach you about your body and your spirit that you lean on today?

SPEAKER_03:

I I've always been impressed with what your body's capable of doing. I think it's capable of so much more than most people let on, and I'm I'm amazed when I go to these different long races. Um the the the people that you see, you'd never expect them to say, I've run a hundred miles. And so there's there's a lot of body types, there's a lot of different mental um perspectives that that do it, but I'm I'm totally blown away by by what you can do if you want to do it. And so it's there the effort is now is to try and apply that um tenacity with um with everyday life and with dealing with like Parkinson's. But it's amazing how the mental aspects of that, the depression and apathy that come with Parkinson's, one day I'll have this great idea and I'll be motivated to do it. And an hour later, it's like completely squashed, and you wonder where you even got the notion to do it. So I'm finding I've got a new foe in the procrastination thing. And I I'm kind of a procrastinator to begin with, so if I don't really want to do something, I find a lot of ways to not do it. And it's something I've struggled with, and I think a lot of people struggle with. It's pretty common. But um, I never never really had to with running.

SPEAKER_01:

Um maybe it was some type of escape. Do you know what you're trying to escape from? Maybe other duties that you were trying to procrastinate.

SPEAKER_03:

I think I think it does lighten lighten stress loads a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

And well, the chemicals it produces in your brain alone, let alone knowing like I accomplished this thing that most other people don't even set out to do.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

It's not in an arrogant way, but uh exactly in turn.

SPEAKER_03:

It's a very personal thing to me. I'm not I'm not caring what other people are thinking, whether I did it or not. It's just it was a personal goal. It was a bucket list thing. And I found I really enjoyed it. And I I I found over the years that I need a purpose for training, for running. It really helps to have a goal race where you've you've got to put in the work because the the clock's ticking on how many days you've got to it. And so there's that incentive to get out there and do it so that it's not a total suffer fest when you tow the line.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, definitely. What do you do with the pain that you feel out there? When you're running a hundred miles, it's inevitable that you're gonna be in some kind of pain. Does it eventually go away for you? Because I've heard for some people it does not, and they suffer through the pain the entire race.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh you know, it I'm sure I haven't run into situations in my races where I was in terrific pain. But it's it was a thing that I monitored. It was kind of the I only said that I would drop out of a race if I was doing something physically harmful to my body that it was gonna do damage. And I mean, I'm not talking about damage where I'm gonna have muscle soreness and stuff, that's inevitable. But, you know, there's so many different things that can go wrong, and a lot of it's problem solving out there.

SPEAKER_01:

Does your brain ever trick you though, try and trick you like this is this is bad enough that you should stop? Or you don't even let those thoughts come in.

SPEAKER_03:

You you think it, but um, prior to the race, prior to the hundred milers, I set myself up with the notion that I would only quit if I was doing damage. There was there was no excuse to drop.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe that's runner superpowers, they're able to know which thoughts aren't real, which thoughts they can throw away.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think I think you do get to know your body incredibly well. And um, if there's something you're really questioning, obviously you should stop. But um I think I think we become pretty aware of what's um dangerous pain.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Because you're always gonna have I've lost toenails, end up with black toenails, and they drop off. And foot foot problems are the probably the most common thing, but um you do end up dealing with it, and it's it's a struggle sometimes. But it's part of the part of the journey, I guess, of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you have a favorite experience out there running an ultra? A favorite memory?

SPEAKER_03:

Almost all of them are really positive. Um so there's there, I guess there's not a specific one, no. Um I've enjoyed I've enjoyed aspects of all of the races. And um there's there's none that I wouldn't do again.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So you got diagnosed with Parkinson's in 2023. Yeah. Not too long ago. Did you uh have suspicions?

SPEAKER_03:

Um there were some things that were happening that I couldn't attribute to anything, and Parkinson's was not on my radar at all.

SPEAKER_01:

Um Don't you have a brother-in-law?

SPEAKER_03:

I have a brother-in-law that's was diagnosed 15 years ago, and so I'm aware of it, but um there were some small things, um, not being able to roll over in bed, um, coordination of muscle groups, it's amazing what you would never think that rolling over in bed would be something that would be affected, but our bodies go through so many orchestras of um movement, and you don't have to think about it, it's automatic. And Parkinson's affects that ability of things to work, synchronicity, synchron, synchronized, and so rolling over in bed, I ended up having to teach myself with my legs how to roll over, and so that was weird. There was one day I woke up prior to that and I couldn't move in bed, like it's like my arms were frozen, and I thought it was from a shoulder injury I had fallen twice on the ice on the same shoulder and torn a bunch of ligaments in it. And I thought it was my body being protective because a lot of times when you do damage to a joint or something like that, the muscles won't fire because they're protecting the joint. They think it's gonna damage the joint.

SPEAKER_01:

And your body's compensating and yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03:

So I thought maybe it was shutting off because of my shoulder, and so I attributed a lot of it to the falls for a while, um, the things I was noticing, and then I started having a lot of problems with my voice, with vocal expression, with raspiness, and it it would just be soft and it would not go away. And I went and saw an eye, nose, and throat doctor, and he treated me for several different nasal allergies and stuff to try and rule things out. They they looked functionally, nothing looked up. And he said to me after I went back for a follow-up, he's like, he goes, I think you might have Parkinson's. He's like, I'm gonna set you up with a neurologist, and I was completely blown away. To him, it was just a matter of fact. Um, yeah, I'm gonna, I think you have Parkinson's. And I knew I certainly knew what that was, but I had never really entertained it seriously. And then, as it turns out, too, a number of people that I knew pretty well, but hadn't seen in a while, um, started making comments to like my business partner at the time when we were working that gee, what's wrong with Dick? You know, he doesn't seem like himself. And I was kind of getting defensive. I was like, what are they talking about? You know, because I didn't see it. And there's so much facial expression and things like that that get affected. Um, so there were so there were some things, the voice was a big thing, and then when I started to get feedback from multiple people, and there was one guy we went out to eat, and we bumped into this table, and Larry was the guy's name, and Larry later told my friend Ed who I was with, um, does Dick have Parkinson's? And that's the first somebody said it.

SPEAKER_01:

And you heard the story before or after the official diagnosis?

SPEAKER_03:

Um, before. It was in the couple months waiting for the neurology appointment.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, it took a couple months.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. So I started having all these ideas, and the more I read, then I started reading about Parkinson's, and I was totally bummed that I had not done this for my brother-in-law, that I had neglected digging in to see some of the things he was experiencing and to understand it better. I just took it for granted that it's like, yep, my brother-in-law's got Parkinson's, and he deals with it, and I don't see him daily or even monthly. And so you just everybody goes along, and he is one of the most stoic people. Um, does not complain, um, and is dealt with a lot over the years, and so so yeah, so then we had an appointment. It was January 4th of 2023, which is my daughter's birthday, which I thought was ironic and kind of dark. But went in and met with the neurologist, and at the culmination of the examination, she said I had Parkinson's. And it's not a definite diagnosis at that point because it's based on a variety of muscle rigidity, um, all different kinds of factors that they gauge reaction. Um, I didn't have tremor at all, which was one of the things that's most commonly people are diagnosed. They start with a tremor, they have a thumb or a finger that starts to tremor. I didn't have any of those, but I had the other things, the throat and swallowing issues. It affects the your ability to swallow as well. Um, so so I I was surprised to get the actual diagnosis, but I wasn't that surprised because a lot of things that I had read, I had some of those symptoms and loss of sense of smell, probably for 20 years ago that started where I was losing my sense of smell. And that's a common sign of Parkinson's, is loss of sense of smell. And it's it's amazing with that, how your body, um, when you eat blueberries or something like that, and you get a whiff of the scent of the blueberries, you know you're eating blueberries. But what's funny is is I think when you see you're eating like strawberry toast on strawberry jam on toast or whatever, you you have an expectation of what that will taste like. You kind of know what it is, and so I think I was not really registering that I'm actually not smelling these things, I'm just mentally telling myself I'm smelling toast with jam or whatever, and so it's it's it's deceptive, it's it's sneaky.

SPEAKER_01:

So that exact moment finding out from the doctor, what did that feel like in your body?

SPEAKER_03:

In some ways, I was at peace because I knew what was going on. There were a lot of things with um when I would get super stressed, um, my voice would disappear and things like that. And so so all these weird symptoms that I was having, I couldn't figure it out. And then it it made sense. The the puzzle piece was put in place as to what was going on, and there was a lot of um self-pity, I think, at that time. I kind of felt like a turtle pulling into my shell, um just like hunkering down, battening down the hatches for what what you're gonna face and not wanting to face it. Um yeah, it was it it was uh and it's still I I go if I'm lucky if I go 30 minutes to an hour without thinking about Parkinson's. That's probably the most frustrating thing is that you can't, it's it's hard to make it disappear even for a while.

SPEAKER_01:

It's overtaking your body and your mind in that way also. Like it, you know, it has your body, but your mind when you're thinking about it that much.

SPEAKER_03:

It yes, yes, it it it's amazing how it affects your brain, and dopamine has so many, it's a neuromodulator, and so it controls other neurotransmitters. So there's lots of things with behavior, with mood and motivation. It's much more complicated than one signal. So when you get replacement um dopamine, levitopa, which is the precursor chemical for dopamine production in your brain. Um it's it's so that so you you take the medication, you get dopamine, but it doesn't mean that everything is balanced with these other things that dopamine works with and the trans the transmission of the the signals so a lot of people think it's only a um movement disorder and that you're fine other than that, but there's so many things with that mentally it affects as well. Of course, just the diagnosis makes you be affected, but it's it's actually chemically not supporting appropriate behavior or thoughts.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So with your brother-in-law, did it feel more like compassion or guilt?

SPEAKER_03:

I think some of both. I I appreciated what he'd gone through. And that's that's one of the hard things about Parkinson's is that it is so individualized. Every person's experience is different. The the symptoms that they um feel, um, the way it affects their body, it's completely random. There's there's like 40 or 50 different um side effects of Parkinson's symptoms of Parkinson's. So there's just this plethora of things, and the more you read, the more you can connect the dots, but ultimately it's what you're dealing with. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um is there a misconception about Parkinson's that you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think I think a lot of people think it's the movement disorder. The they see they think of Michael J. Fox as the thing that comes to most people's mind when you talk Parkinson's. And he's kind of a special case. He was an early onset, young onset, um, at 29, and he's like 67 now and still dealing with it. Um and you see the issues he has with uh movement, and it's it's scary. It's scary for sure. But I think a lot of people think if you're functioning fine, largely daily, um, that you're you're not you're not too bad, you don't have it too bad, but there's a lot of things that are behind the scenes that affect the individual um that are not obvious. But um the good part is is that the progression is typically typically very slow over decades. It it can be, and most of the issues in terms of mortality are byproducts of it. So the the throat thing, if you inhale a lot of liquids, a lot of people die from aspirational pneumonia is a real common thing. Another one is falling because it's the balance issues, and we know with any older people, falls are super dangerous with sliding down that slippery slope of not healing, breaking hips, and um at some point it's it gets bad enough where you die of complications. But um I'm pretty optimistic in that I've been active, and so a lot of people that get it are older. So if you're 75 or 80, yes, you have a much smaller window of time you're gonna deal with it, but chances are you're not gonna have the physical ability to overcome a lot of the symptoms, and so getting it at the age that I got it, which is very typical, 60 to 65 is super common. I was 59 and a half at the time. Um, I think I'm better able to ward off the progression. And that's that's the biggest thing. There, there are three things. There are exercise is the number one thing, and diet is the second, and sleep is the third most important things to minimizing progression and severity of symptoms, and so now the the running has become a necessity, and to do it as long as I can, um, and then I'll have to find something else, you know. I and then there certainly will be other things that I'll engage in those, be it biking. Surprisingly, a lot of people with Parkinson's, they there's people that can't walk, but they can ride a bike. I'm sure it presents problems when you come to stop.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, so it's a blessing that you are so into running, but now does it feel like this chore that you have to do it, where before it was like you wanted to and you couldn't get enough of that?

SPEAKER_03:

Somewhat, but I think also it's just it's having having goals in the past where I needed to train for a purpose. Now I need to train for a different purpose. And if I can enjoy what I'm doing and do something productive for the Parkinsons, that's a win-win. So um really it's just uh doubling down on the fact that I need to I need to do this, I have to do this, and it's dependent not just on me, but on my caregivers eventually. Um, to delay that as long as possible is important to me. I don't I don't want to be a burden physically, and I know eventually I will, but in the meantime, I want to do all I can do to maintain my independence and complete solidarity of taking care of myself.

SPEAKER_01:

If you had to name one thing as the hardest part, can you think of what that is?

SPEAKER_03:

I think I'd never really dealt with apathy before. And it's rolled in with depression, but I'm I'm really lucky in that, you know, I'll have my moments, but they're they're fleeting for the most part. They don't endure, and I don't get these two-day things or whatever. Um, I was always a pretty optimistic person, and I think um a lot of that's been been damaged, but um, I think I can rebound and I'm starting to get into a better place mentally where you finally grasp the fact that this is what I've got, this is what I've got to deal with. And the other the other thing is it can always be so much worse. There's so many other things out there that are horrible. Um, and so it makes me uh focus in on the fragility of all of our situations. I mean, any one of us could get it. There's 90,000 people a year in the U.S. that are diagnosed with Parkinson's. There's over a million people living with it. Um, so I'm not alone. And you you can pick your pick your how many older couples do you know that have gone retired, and then all of a sudden somebody gets sick and it changes, excuse me, it changes everything.

SPEAKER_01:

You had told me one time that you prided yourself on your voice your whole life. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_03:

I didn't really pride myself in it, but I enjoyed my voice. I I've sung at a couple of weddings. Um, it was in a barbershop quartet, excuse me, in high school that did really well. We got four stars at the state meet, if you will, for that. And I just love to sing when I drive. And uh it's something I miss because I can't do it now for for a squat. And so I'm self-critical. And yeah, you just don't enjoy it if it's not what you're expecting to hear. And so I really miss, I really miss being able to sing. Um, that that's a big one. Just a simple thing.

SPEAKER_01:

But that's a big shift in identity. Is there anything else that this disease has made your identity shift from?

SPEAKER_03:

Certainly my my my background was a lot of hands-on stuff with the cabinet making and all that. And so being super handy um and and physical. Um, I always thought there was nothing I couldn't couldn't build or make. And so it's it's weird at home now um with my wife. Um, just different things that I I can't do or I struggle to do, and I think she gets a little frustrated and wants to jump in and do them. And it's it's it's frustrating. You don't want that to happen, and it's it's a little bit um, it just kind of knocks you down a step or two. But I understand, I understand it, but it's hard. Um, I think being a guy too, just being able to do things physically. Um Parkinson's does not make you weaker, but a lot of times you have trouble gauging force. So I'll go to tighten something, and what I think is tight is not tight. And so gauging, gauging force is difficult. And there's so many things with grabbing a screw out of a nail pouch and manipulating the screw so that you can run a screw run it in with a screw gun. Um, most of the time, if my meds are on par, I can I can do it. And it's it's dramatic the difference when I start to go off meds. So, like in the day, I take meds four times a day. Um, and the last time is at 3:30, and it starts to wear off like four four hours later, and this the shift in symptoms is dramatic. It's it's amazing what the Levadopa does, and you can be on it for decades. Um but um but yeah, so your your ability to do things um shifts for sure. And that's that's hard to reckon. I think for some people more than others, I understand it, so I'm I don't beat myself up over it. I still try and do everything, um, and I'll keep trying to do it as long as I can do it. And I know the more things I do, the more things I manipulate, the more things that I measure and just be involved in is therapeutic because I'm moving using all different kinds of muscles and stuff. And um one of the harder things probably is socially, it it affects your your ability. I don't like large group gatherings too much anymore, and it's just it's just there. I used to be fairly outgoing and um just it it chips away its death from a thousand cuts to your your personality, and that gets really frustrating. Um, but at at times when I'm maybe maybe overtired or stressed, uh you just you feel like you you're the old you is disappearing, being replaced with something. And I notice that with older people, that they as if they have difficulty hearing and stuff like that, they withdraw and because they're not being able to be included in what's going on. And so there's there's some good lessons to to take from that as well. That um keeping keeping people involved, keeping involved, doing things you don't want to do, like I didn't really want to do this. Um, I thought it would be difficult, and it's personal, but it is it is therapeutic to to to talk about it and um let other people experience understand what my experience is.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you miss the most? If you could take back, get back one thing that Parkinson's has stolen from you, what would that be? What should we appreciate more?

SPEAKER_03:

I think I think just general confidence in myself. You you kind of feel like you're coming across, not how you want to come across. And so the ability to to be who you were, not not not have this kind of I used to make the the statement all the time, well, the old me could do this, or you know, and one of my friends, good friends, um is tells me to just stop stop talking like that because but but you do gauge yourself against what you were. I think it's human nature to gauge yourself who you were, what level you were at. But um the other thing that I think I've really learned is humility, um, how and how unimportant my ego is in many respects. It's it's I've got so many more fish to fry than to worry about what my ego thinks. And um so there's been some good perspective too in just not worrying about the superficial things and things that are in the big picture and not important at all, and that if I could change, that would be the last thing I would worry about.

SPEAKER_01:

If you had to describe your life now in one word, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I had two words written down, but um they were at a certain point in the day distracted would be one. Um and the other was fragile.

SPEAKER_01:

Um your mental body is fragile or your physical?

SPEAKER_03:

I I feel like both are, and I've never feeling fragile is not anything I ever wanted to feel, and so having taken care of my body my whole life, um, being athletic and making sure I was never a drinker early, I've never used or abused drugs, um, and just been careful. It's one of those things like when I first started driving, I was so careful to drive smartly because I didn't want to lose the ability of the freedom of driving. And I feel the same way with my health. It's just um your life is so much better and so much easier if if you're healthy, and it you can go from everything being wonderful in a relationship in a family to devastation with people getting some chronic illness, and then you've got the care factor, and um I don't want to have to be taken care of.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that your biggest fear?

SPEAKER_03:

It's probably my biggest fear, yes. What what's coming down the road for my family for my wife and stuff having to deal with taking care of me? And um we both had um parental parents that have needed help in taking care of, and there's there's a real um attrition to taking care of somebody for a long period of time and having that obligation. And so I'd really like to not have to have that happen anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01:

Are you mad at God then because you've spent your whole life being careful and taking care of yourself?

SPEAKER_03:

I definitely feel betrayed. Yeah. Um, but then I remember that we weren't we aren't guaranteed that everything's gonna work out great. And so there there's definitely a lot of anger. Um, but again, it isn't something that I could have changed. Um it's idiopathic Parkinson, so there's no known cause. It isn't a genetic thing, it wasn't an environmental toxin thing, likely, although I was exposed to different chemicals in the cabinet shop for decades.

SPEAKER_01:

So then do they say what likely caused it, or they literally have no idea?

SPEAKER_03:

They don't, they just leave it unclassified.

SPEAKER_01:

That's gotta be tough. Like you just want answers.

SPEAKER_03:

I do, but at the same time, it wouldn't change anything now. I can't go back.

SPEAKER_01:

Where do you find peace on the hard days?

SPEAKER_03:

I think just um my routine with my family, um making a meal, enjoying sitting down together, enjoying a meal. Um I certainly do enjoy when I get out. On the weekends, I always go to the park, Interstate Park in Wisconsin and run the trails. So it's right just near Taylor's Falls there. Um I absolutely love running. I've got several different courses all through the trails in there, and that just lifts me up and really enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Do you believe suffering has a purpose? You already said humility is something that you've learned. Anything else?

SPEAKER_03:

I I think suffering has a purpose. I I hope it has a purpose because there's so much of it going on around everywhere. Um I'd like to think that we're not just suffering for no reason. Um, I think there's a real benefit in learning empathy for other people. Um, having dealt with it yourself, if they're in the same group, um, you can kind of share that. And I think it's it's good to I think a lot of people think too much about themselves always. And it's it's hard when you're dealing with something on your own. But it's like the hundred motto, it can something can always else go bad, you know. Um it's things can go go sour in a hurry.

SPEAKER_01:

Who or what has surprised you with being supportive?

SPEAKER_03:

I think gladly no no one has been a standout, but I think just in general, my family and friend structure has been been there with me. So I can't say that any of I've been lacking in anything. Um yeah, I think people for the most part have responded really positively and they don't dwell on it, and I'm glad because I don't want to dwell on it. I think about it enough. I don't I don't I don't need to be reminded of it in those moments where you're not thinking about it and you're free from it for a while is really precious. Um, and so I'm hoping as time goes by I'll get used to the fact that I do have it and that I can't change anything about it, but what I can do, I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01:

So when you do run into somebody that you haven't seen for a long time, what is the appropriate response? I think people never know, are we supposed to bring it up? Like, I would think, no, I'm not gonna bring it up because why remind you of it? You know, why, or you know, if somebody sees you and you're acting different than you have before, like, is there anything, do you wish they would ignore it? Do you wish they would ask you what's going on?

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I guess if they're curious, I'd want them to ask. But I try and let people know if it's somebody I haven't seen, some friends I haven't seen for quite a while, I'll bring it up and just get it out there on the table. You know, not because I want them to treat me any different, but I just don't want them to wonder, gosh, what the heck's going on? Because so much of your normal, I mean, when you see somebody um like my brother-in-law, they they lose so much facial expression. It's like they call it cement face, where you just don't respond at a certain point.

SPEAKER_01:

So you want people to know I'm enjoying this conversation even if I don't look as enthusiastic as I maybe did in the past. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so many things change. I mean, my smile changed as my changed, my expressions changed. It it feels very foreign, and there's there's nothing you can do about it. Um that's that's a very annoying. Um I feel like systemically I've um aged five or six years for every year, which you know, I was hoping to be the um 60-year-old that's the new 50.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, your skin does look so great still. It's like you get Botox, but I don't think you do. You have no wrinkles.

SPEAKER_03:

I've had some sun damage that I've had uh frozen recently, so that's why I've got some spots. But I get in I get in trouble because I don't use sunscreen enough.

SPEAKER_01:

Should yeah, but there's controversy around that too now. Is that what's always caused us cancer? Because you're putting literal chemicals on your skin, and people never needed that before when they they lived in the tanning is protective, supposedly, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It's crazy. That's that's like a whole that's a whole nother show.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right. What advice would you give someone newly diagnosed with Parkinson's or another chronic illness?

SPEAKER_03:

I guess I can't speak for another chronic illness because they're they'd be so different, probably, but with Parkinson's, I think it's take a deep breath and assume assume the best and do what you can do immediately in terms of the the big three the exercise, the diet, and the sleep. It is critical. I notice at the end of a day as five o'clock, six o'clock, seven o'clock comes along, I just fade. And you need more sleep than you used to get. So I mean they recommend eight hours, and it certainly makes a big difference. So I think taking care of your body right away and having a good group. I've got an incredible neurologist, she's just fantastic. Um, I'll go in there and have a 30-minute appointment, supposedly, and we'll spend an hour, hour, and five minutes. She never once looks at the clock. Um, so having a great neurologist, I think, is really important, and I usually come away from those uh visits feeling super great, um, all things considered.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's magical.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. People can really make a big difference. But at the end of the day, um, you've got your life to live, and theoretically, with a progressive disease, it's only gonna get harder. So do as many things as you can now, and that's hard for me to get off my procrastinating butt sometimes and realize that you know, two years from now I might not be able to do this tip type of vacation. Like I really want to get out to Colorado and the San Juans and run and hike. I'll be definitely hiking there because of the altitude, but there's just some different mountainous spots, and I'd love to do the Alps hiking hut to hut and stuff. So there's there's a lot of things to do and to plan and take advantage of them because it's not gonna wait for you.

SPEAKER_01:

When people remember this part of your life, what do you hope that they'll say about how you faced it?

SPEAKER_03:

I just hope they they I guess it would be more so for my family and stuff. I wish I would hope that they think I was brave with it and that I did the best I could and um it makes me cherish them more. Um but I don't I don't I'm not so concerned about what other people think really, other than the people that are my family and friends. Um the rest of the world be damned, you know. Um I've got it, I'm gonna deal with it. Uh I'm not affecting you. So so deal with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. If Parkinsons could talk, what would it say to you?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm coming. And I would say send it.

SPEAKER_01:

What's something Parkinson's has forced you to slow down and notice that you might have rushed through before.

SPEAKER_03:

I think the fact that I need to do things in the the now rather than I was always, well, if we don't get it this time or this year, we'll do it next year. Was really good at delaying and putting things off. And so I think um the urgency to do stuff now while I'm the most capable and I've got the most uh the the least need for help um in spending time with family and and friends.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What's something that you do now that you hope your grandkids do when they're your age?

SPEAKER_03:

I think camp and hike and get to these beautiful places.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I find, you know, places like Glacier and even the bighhorns where Eric and I were last year, um, are so beautiful and they're so soothing and there's so much to do and just absorb. So yeah, I would hope the urgency to do things.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you do right now that you hope your grandkids don't do when they're your age?

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe getting caught up in um I see so many negative things with the phones and social media and stuff like that. And I really hope they keep that in check. Um I know my kids are on their phones a lot. They're not kids anymore, they're adults. But that's the amount of time that gets wasted is mind-boggling, and I I get sucked into it too, and I've really tried to not get into that realm where you're constantly looking at stuff and you you get so many negative perspectives on things. I just think we we were as kids were blessed with the innocence of not having all this information all the time and all these um stereotypes of what you should be or how you should be. And I think it makes you a lot more vain than never having exposure to all these things and worrying that somebody's gonna see you, or you you've got to keep up with the Joneses with clothes and cars and stuff like that. So I think that would be what I would say.

SPEAKER_01:

Beda, do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I was curious at the beginning of the episode if you've ever dealt with any serious running injuries.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I I had an injury that was not running related. I was doing like karate kicks with my son in the leg that was planted and not in the air. Um, the knee joint that Patella dislocated and it went sideways.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03:

And that was the worst pain I've ever been in. Um, but I've been super lucky with running, and I've had some minor injuries, but um my legs are pretty bomb-proof, and so much of that is your form and everything and genetic. Um, some people seem to have all kinds of problems running, and I think one of the big factors is that I started young and I've always kept running to some degree, and it it's it's funny because I know there was that 5K that some of the people did, and my daughter did, and was saying how even just walking, fast walking the three miles had sore feet and sore ankles, and so I think there's a lot of resiliency and toughness that comes from using those muscles all the time and building a solid foundation. But there there seems to be not a lot of rhyme or reason to injuries sometimes, but most of the people that it's not true that you wear out like your knees, you're wearing them out if you use them a lot. Um, some people go through their knee cartilage and have to have a knee replacement, and they've been fairly sedentary their whole life. So if it isn't being overweight is being the issue, a lot of it's just. Genetic. But no, I've been I've been lucky and I knock on wood. I can go and grind along and feel feel good. Um not had it too many injuries.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, very beautiful. Dick, thank you for sharing everything. Is there anything that we didn't go over that you'd like to talk about?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I think we got it a lot. This is the most talking I've done for in the morning for a while.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But it was fun.

SPEAKER_01:

Good. It was good. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_03:

You bet.