Supernaut
Supernaut is a podcast about spirituality, sobriety, and the spectrum of self. Hosted by Beth Kelling, this show explores what it means to seek clarity, connection, and personal truth in a world that rarely slows down.
Since beginning her sobriety journey in 2020, Beth has been diving deeper into spiritual practices, emotional honesty, and all the beautiful, messy layers of identity.
Each episode opens the door to conversations about healing, growth, creativity, intuition, and everything in between — because who we are isn’t fixed, it’s a spectrum.
Beth will be joined by guests who share their own stories, perspectives, and spiritual paths — offering insight, inspiration, and the occasional cosmic detour.
Whether you’re sober-curious, spiritually inclined, or just looking to feel a little more human, you’re in the right place
Supernaut
Servanthood : The Simple Work Of Loving People
The promise of faith isn’t protection from pain, but the assurance of being held when life breaks. That question threads through a candid conversation with Justin Jahnz, who opens up about miscarriages, a dangerous blood disorder that affected him and three of his children, and the hospital nights that reshaped his view of God, grace, and what really matters. His take is disarmingly simple and deeply earned: love God, love people. Not as a slogan, but as a way of moving through fear, forgiving the unforgivable, and finding purpose on the far side of disruption.
We move from Justin’s Lutheran roots and personal awakening to the hard-won insight that obstacles don’t detour us from growth; they make us. He shares how a song about being “held” became a lifeline, why organized religion still matters for consistency and community, and how divorcing faith from partisan politics clears room to love across tribes. We talk forgiveness that costs something, free will that preserves a real relationship with God, and the quiet relief of realizing salvation is gift, not wage.
Justin also pulls back the curtain on leadership as the CEO of an electric cooperative. He makes a compelling case for servant leadership grounded in four core values—respect, integrity, courage, humility—and a practical engagement model built on meaning, autonomy, growth, impact, and connections. Expect thoughtful stories about hiring for character, creating clarity of direction, giving feedback with grace and standards, and building cultures where people feel seen, safe, and capable of more than they imagined. Along the way, he offers a picture of God’s why that is both intimate and hopeful: we are wanted, fully.
If you’re craving perspective, practical leadership tools, and a gentler, stronger way to hold faith in a complicated world, press play and join us. If this resonated, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help others find the show.
Welcome to Supernaut, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Today I have on Justin Johns, and I asked you to pick a song that we could listen to before we started. What song did you pick?
SPEAKER_00:It is called Held, and it's by Natalie Grant.
SPEAKER_02:Why did you pick it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think, you know, as we talked about what this podcast is about and my faith and my spirituality, I think one of the things that I've probably learned most painfully is that your faith and your belief isn't about being protected, but it's about it's about being looked after when things happen. There are going to be bad things in our life. We're going to have pain, we're going to have suffering, we're going to have hurt. And how we respond to that, how we react in that moment is really indicative of our faith and our character as people.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was very beautiful. I plan on listening to it pretty often now that I heard it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:You bet.
SPEAKER_02:So we have never met until right now, but my friend Cody and the editor of SuperNot told me about you. He used to go to daycare at your mom's house. Is that it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think he may have, yep.
SPEAKER_02:So and he had told me that you were a hardcore Catholic. So I wrote you a message telling you all these things that I was interested in about Catholicism. And you're like, well, I'm a Lutheran, but Yeah, we're like enlightened Catholics, basically.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02:I like it. I like it. So um a little bit more about you before we start. Um did some research, some stocking. Um you were a hockey coach?
SPEAKER_00:I was. I I played high school hockey. Uh I graduated in '96, and uh we lost to Mora in double overtime to go to state.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, from Ram.
SPEAKER_00:I'm well, I'm from Pine City. Okay. Okay. But um, so when my kids got to that age, of course, they started playing hockey, and so I coached some hockey and really enjoyed that. It was a chance to have a positive influence on some kids' lives. And I always said we're we're raising people, not hockey players, here, and that's kind of my mindset when it came to coaching.
SPEAKER_02:Love that. And big into golf, you play golf, and I heard you've been to the a PGA tour.
SPEAKER_00:Well, so I went to the Ryder Cup um as a as a spectator, obviously. But um people always say, Well, are you good at golf? And I always say, Well, not for how much I play. But yeah, no, I really enjoy golf. My wife and I golf, uh, a couple of my kids play, and yeah, it's it's a family sport.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. And big water skier.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, my brothers and I, so I I have two brothers, both younger, and the three of us every year on the 4th of July, we all get up together, ski, the three of us at the same time. We keep having to get bigger motors to pull us all up, but we're still doing it. So we'll see. The goal is to do it in our 60s, but we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, keep that flexibility. And if you keep doing it every year, don't take a year off. Maybe you can.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, oh, and you love cutting wood and making a perfectly stacked wood pile.
SPEAKER_00:I definitely, yeah. I we we still burn wood in our house now. And um, I don't know, there's just something to being connected to your heating source that I that I still enjoy. And it's just a very it's a warm heat, right? Wood heat.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the most comfortable heat. And yeah, to have the the trees, the nature be the thing warming you, especially in Minnesota, cold winters. Yeah, that's great. Um, but the part about it being perfectly stacked, are you a perfectionist in other ways or I would say that I I I would be like an aspiring perfectionist, right?
SPEAKER_00:Probably a little bit ADHD in the sense that I like to like to learn new things, but then once I perfect them, I kind of move on. So for example, right now, my kind of mission is to to make um to make um the best old fashioned that I can. Oh yeah, and I'm not doing that well at it. And I don't, I don't, I don't drink very much, so I don't get a chance to do it. But uh my daughter works at the at the garage in Pine City, and so she's coaching me.
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, anyway. Oh, that's fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:So were you born a Lutheran?
SPEAKER_00:So um, yeah, my parents are Lutheran. My grandparents on my mom's side um were not, but my my grandparents on my dad's side were, and so I was born uh in the Lutheran church, and I actually attend the same church that I was baptized in, which is, you know, maybe it's good, but it's it's where I'm at right now. You know.
SPEAKER_02:That's great. When did you first, or when was the first time you realized your relationship with God was personal and not just your upbringing?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I attended a an event, it was called Teens Encounter Christ, and it was up in Cloquet, I believe. And I was the only one that went from our church, and I got to meet a bunch of uh kids that I didn't know, and there was a conversation about um, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, and the and the idea is that you have to die uh from from your own sin. You have to choose to to give up your life, uh the life of the world, and um accept Jesus as your savior. And that was a really, I mean, I was like probably 15 years old, and I hadn't really perceived that. It was kind of an awakening for me in that my relationship with Jesus, my relationship with God was mine. It wasn't the churches, it wasn't my parents, it was mine, and it was my opportunity to decide. Um, you know, I guess you know, Phil Robertson says it this way someday you're gonna die. And when you die, you're gonna find out that either God is real or he's not. And if he is real, you're gonna you're gonna hope that you're on the right side of that equation, right? And so for me, uh it was really a moment of realizing that I need to take responsibility for my own faith journey and I need to understand that um that I'm that I am a sinner, that I need to be forgiven for the things that I do and the the way that I was born as a sinner. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I really like that. Uh can you describe your faith journey then in one word for each decade of your life? So zero to ten. Can you think of a word?
SPEAKER_00:I would say probably oblivious or privileged, one of the two. Very, you know, I I was a very lucky kid. I grew up in a very healthy home. Both parents, you know, they wanted the best for their kids, could could took good care of us, but really we we we were probably pretty sheltered from what the world is for a lot of people, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oblivious is good. I mean, we were all pretty oblivious at that time. How about 10 to 20 then? Because that's uh the age where you're you did accept Jesus into your heart.
SPEAKER_00:I would say, I would say curiosity at the in that decade, definitely.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, 20 to 30.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Growth. Uh I grew a lot in my 20s and 30s in my faith and my understanding and my perception of what my values were and what my priorities were in my faith. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, um, 30 to 40.
SPEAKER_00:I would say humility. I learned, you know, I probably grew a lot in my 20s, became more confident, became more sure of myself. And then in my 30s into my 40s, uh, I think I was humbled in a lot of ways and even broken in some ways. Um, that's when my so I I grew up a very normal life, very healthy, um, no issues. We had um my daughter was my firstborn, our firstborn, and then uh 18 months later, my son was born, everything went well, and then we went through a series of miscarriages. My wife had multiple miscarriages, trouble getting pregnant, and it really was like the first moment of my life where I was like, what? Like, why is this not happening the way it's supposed to, right? Um, and then we had our third uh child, uh, and you know, he was born healthy, and things went on. And then as I got into my 30s, um my I had a blood clot uh in my leg, and and I found out later, much later, that I have a protein S deficiency, and that protein S deficiency causes my blood to continue clotting. Everyone has our blood clots, but mine doesn't stop, and that and that's so that's a problem. Um, but I'm on blood dinners and everything's good with that. It's something I manage, right? But then I found out that three of my four kids had the same thing, and so that humbled me in a lot of ways. Like I had this confidence built up, my career was going well, life was going well, things were going well, and then I got like knocked down to my knees. Two of my kids ended up hospitalized with blood clots, and they were very, very dangerous situations. Um, and um, so anyway, though that that humbled me in a lot of ways. And um, you know, the song that we listened to, again, I talked about this idea that we're not immune as Christians from pain, from suffering, from sorrow. Um, my youngest son, Elijah, or Samuel, who was a surprise, so he's nine, and my oldest is 22. So we got a big gap in there. And um when he was 18 months old, he was hospitalized with RSV, and we thought he might die. Um, and so this song, which I had heard well before that, was something that um it gave me a sense of peace going through that and knowing that you know he he's innocent. He's an 18-month-old baby, and we're gonna be completely torn apart if something happens if he if he were to die. But we also knew that that his creator loved him just like he loves all of us, and that it would he would be okay, his soul would be okay. And that's a that's a powerful transformation to understand that, especially when you're sitting in the hospital with your kid. And so when I say my 30s were humbling, those are the kind of events that took place during that time period, and it it really changed who I am as a person in a in a really positive way ultimately.
SPEAKER_02:Did you have a period of that of being mad at God?
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know that I was ever mad. I think there was a period of fear where I was afraid of what might happen to my kids, of what might happen to me, of whether or not we would be okay um physically. And and and those moments, they they test your faith, obviously. They test your um your your your will, your you know, you get become angry. Um, and that's those are natural human reactions. But I think the real measure is how do you process it long term? Do you how do you get through that? How do you move move through and on from that? Um, Ryan Holliday um writes a lot of books on stoicism. And one of the books he writes is called wrote it's called The Obstacle is the Way. And that was a powerful book for me too, because it taught me that we aren't who we are in spite of what happens to us. We are who we are because of what happens to us. And I really that that again, I was probably way older than I should have been when I realized that, but um, it really changed the way that I think about um challenges in our life and how they uh prepare us for the future.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I need to think that out. So not in spite, but because.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So it's happening to know us for a reason. Is that what that means?
SPEAKER_00:So like my blood clots, right? I have to wear compression socks every day, which is a total pain.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I'm not the person I am in spite of the fact that I have that issue. It's because I went through that, because I dealt with that. Like, think of people who grow up in poor homes in poverty. They they're not resilient in spite of the fact that they grew up poor. They're resilient because they had to go without, because they had to learn to be creative and solve problems differently than maybe kids who grew up in a more privileged home. So the idea of the obstacle being the way is that you become who you are because of these things that you faced in your life, not because you went around them, but because you went through them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and for me, the the sooner I can realize it's a blessing in disguise, the better. Obviously, I mean, I don't know where I was going with that, but yeah, I mean, and going through those things with your kids and um everything, is it comforting to just know God is there too?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, for me it is, and I, you know, I I think one of the one of the things in my life that's that's really important is is family and and you know, having everybody together and being able to spend time together. It it it we all know life is short and it's gonna pass by. And I think as you get a little bit older in life, you start to realize that that end is going to be there. And when you're in your 20s, you're you know, we're all invincible, right? Um, these things that happened to me in those 30s years really taught me that, you know, to cherish those moments and enjoy them and realize that they're fleeting.
SPEAKER_02:And some people don't slow down enough to realize that till they're in their 70s.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Or more. Yeah. Um you said in our messages that salvation is relatively simple and a direct relationship with Christ. What do you mean by simple? What do you mean by direct? And how does that look in your day-to-day life?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I mentioned uh Phil Roberts in the late grade. He said he he his quote is, I keep it pretty simple. Love God and love people. And I think when when when we think about religion, we think about faith, we think there's rights and there's wrongs, and there's, you know, some people have it figured out and some people don't. I I think it, I think it is pretty simple, is that love God, accept Jesus as your savior, savior, understand that you're a sinner, and then the next step is to love people. Don't stand on the corner with a with a sign that says, you know, you're all going to hell because you're not like me. And I think a lot of people that are in the in whatever religion they're in really do feel that way, that they have it figured out and other people don't. And I I I tend to believe that we go, our faith journey is not linear, right? It's it goes up and down, and and some days we feel better, some days we feel not so strong in our faith. But the reality is that it is pretty simple. Love God and love people, be kind. And that that's really where my my kind of ethos of my leadership comes from is just loving people, caring for people, and and trying to be trying to trying to help their life be better in any way that you can.
SPEAKER_02:That makes me think about how we aren't good or bad. Like we are um created in God's image. That's right. So how can we be bad? You know, if we do something bad, that doesn't define us.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. And I honestly, like, I talked about being a Lutheran, and I had this guilt of, you know, and I've had it basically since I was 15 of like never feeling like you're good enough, right? Like the and and in in Luke, it says, uh, to the to those much is given, much is expected, right? And I I feel like I'm pretty fortunate and pretty pretty privileged in a lot of ways. And so I don't know if I can ever meet those expectations sometimes as a person. Like, am I doing enough? Am I am I am I making enough of a difference? Am I trying hard enough? And that actually that comes from a from a bad place because it's not my job to do those things. Those things were given to me as as a gift from the creator to to make the world a better place. So do what you can and then move on. And and I think that's a realization, like when we get to my 40s, that's my realization is like do what you can and then and then move forward from it.
SPEAKER_02:Um when you aren't feeling close to God, what do you do to feel closer to him?
SPEAKER_00:So I think there's um there's value in community, church community. Um I'm I'm not I'm not um I've been a part of the same church my whole life, but at the same time, when you look at the average church's budget, you know, 75% of their of their offerings go to pay salaries, property taxes, electric bills, things of that nature. And so um I can get a little jaded about organized religion, honestly, because again, it's pretty simple, right? Love God, love people. And if if your offerings are going to pay salaries or benefits or, you know, for a new pews in the church or whatever, you're not really making that difference in the world. Um, but at the same time, organized religion does serve an important purpose, which is consistency. If you go to a Catholic Mass in Mora or Pine City or you know, Los Angeles, California, you're gonna get the same thing. And that's valuable from the sense that it can it can reorient you, it can ground you, and and it creates consistency over time for people. If you're a Lutheran and you go to an ELCA church, no matter where it is, you're gonna get again a consistent message, a consistent um reminder of what's important in scripture.
SPEAKER_02:I've never thought about that, but yeah, obviously kids crave structure, puppies crave structure, knowing that you can stop at any Lutheran church and it's basically gonna be the same.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:In Missouri Senate, a little a little scarier than the Lutheran church I grew up in.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:But um, yeah, that is comforting to think they're all over the place. I like that. Um, yeah, you had said that organized religion can create efficiencies for the Great Commission.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Anything else you want to say about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I just think it's it it people do crave consistency to your point, and and organized religion provides that. It gives people the same, you know, the whole story of, you know, say something seven times before people remember it. And I think that can be very true in the faith-based kind of situation of education and bringing people up. We're we're all born innocent with a with a blank slate. And so how we bring kids up, how we raise them up in the church, it's not an indoctrination, it's an education, and then they get to make a choice. And so I think organized religion does provide the the basis for consistency. There were a lot of kids that went to Sunday school confirmation with me who didn't come from a home that went to church all the time, and so the church did provide that that ability to disciple to them and to, you know, hopefully evangelize them and bring them to Christ. And um, I think that that exists today.
SPEAKER_02:What do you think is the most effective way to live out Jesus' message in the modern world?
SPEAKER_00:Honestly, um this like question makes me think about the politics of religion and just stripping that away. I think you know, the more that we can remove politics from religion, the more we can remove religion from politics, uh, the better off we are. And and just focusing on being good to one another. I I mean, we're people are asked to be either the best little Republican they can be or the best little Democrat they can be. And it causes us to have division in our communities and our society. Most of the people who live in this region are pretty similar, right? They might have some different beliefs, but they probably have a lot more in common than they have that are that separates them. And we've allowed the things that separate us to separate us instead of focusing on the things we have in common. I think for me, living out Jesus' word is is about loving people, bringing them together, making them feel valued, making them feel like they matter. Um, every one of us wants to feel like we make a difference. And so if we can help each other see that, see how we make a difference, I think that is part of spreading Christ's love in the world.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. Yeah, it's um hard to not have purpose.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It's important for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so yeah, loving your neighbor. Um, this Mark Twain quote I've wanted to bring up for a while, and I wasn't sure I would today or not, but it seems to fit. Um, not sure if you've heard it, but he said, But who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner who needs it most?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's important to remember that Satan was an angel of God, right? He was created by God. Was and God loves Satan, but Satan turned away and he took some of the angels with him when he was cast into into hell. And um I think one of the one of the human examples of that that I think resonates with me is when you see people whose child is murdered or child is killed by a drunk driver, and you see the parents of that child stand up and testify their own forgiveness and say, I forgive you and I love you and I hope you can turn away from your sin and make your life meaningful. I'll tell you, if if you want to talk about living out Christ's commission, that's it right there. Because we are that the ultimate testimony of our faith is forgiveness. Forgiving the people who hurt us and you know, things like that, I think are are the example of forgiveness. And I don't know if that's what Mark Twain was getting at, is that that idea that it's easy to celebrate good, it's a lot harder to pray for the bad. But for me, that's what it reminds me of is people who have gone through almost unimaginable loss at the hands of another person, whether it's an accident or intentional, and they can find it in their hearts to forgive that person. Um, and I think the secret that a lot of people don't know about forgiveness is forgiveness is a lot more about you than it is about the person you're forgiving, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I always say it's like drinking poison but expecting the other person to suffer. Right. Um right. So it's just always been really easy for me to understand that nobody was born evil, nobody was like, oh, when I grow up, I'm gonna murder somebody. So like something happened to them. So to be able to be a parent and be able to pray for that person and know that they are hurting so bad, yeah, for them to act the way that they did. Um, that's easy for me to understand that. I remember hearing when I was um a teenager that um somebody had forgiven somebody for killing their kid, and I was like, I'd I'd easily be able to do that, you know. And then have having a child, it's like I thought about it. I've thought about it many times in my life, and I still hope that I could. I you know, who knows until I'm there, but um yeah, I think just thinking about that they're in pain and they're suffering.
SPEAKER_00:It's easy to love your friends, it's a lot harder to love your enemies, and that's that is, you know, I think it's a measure of mature human beings and certainly mature Christians, is to to provide forgiveness and even love to your enemies. Um we we live in in in um tribes, right, as people, and and we tend to, you know, whether it's high school or whether it's cultural or racial tribes, and we send we tend to think it's okay to not, you know, support love, care about people who are in different tribes. You know, and we can get into the idea of nationalism, the idea of, you know, this this whole idea that, you know, immigration, like these are human beings, these are God's creation. And and we need to remember that when we take these strong stances on politics or or different things. It doesn't mean we don't have rule of law, but we still need to love one another uh at the core and understand that these are human beings trying to seek a better life, generally.
SPEAKER_02:I've been hearing about the tribe thing, how like I mean it's embedded pretty deep in us to not really feel comfortable or completely trust outsiders, or if we go into a new group, it how uncomfortable it feels for a long time. And I think um that is something though that we have to try to get over if we're gonna live this way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I agree. And and and especially I think people who are in a tribe who's in a dominant position, right? So, you know, white people tend to be in a more dominant cultural position, and they're not always willing to open the door to let other people in. And of course, when people feel rejected, then you start to have this like animosity, and I think you know, that's where a lot of racial tension comes from is you know just an unwillingness to put your hands down and start a relationship and a conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because I think um people go through life like that because they're thinking, oh, if they get something, then that's less for me. But if you have a relationship with God, He lets you know all the time that there's enough for everybody.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. For sure. I couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_02:Um, is there a belief that you had to completely let go of spiritually to grow?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it was this idea that you know, that I could, that I could do it, that I could solve the problems, that I I'm a fixer, right? I'm an electrician by trade and I I know how to fix things. I'm pretty handy around the house. Like I can fix things. And so like when my kids went through their their health issues, and those were those were, I mean, they took me to my knees in terms of having to like give it give it over to God and just pray and pray for his will and pray that you know, whatever is meant to be, I'm gonna love you, I'm gonna love my kids, and uh until the day that we're separated, you know, I'm gonna love my wife and my family. But but this idea that you can't take care of it yourself all the time was definitely uh something I had to give up to grow in my in my trust in God that he knows what's best for me and for my life, and that he'll use me and the people that I love for his will, not for not for mine.
SPEAKER_02:Is that an ongoing thing that he tests you on, or did he test you a whole bunch until you were like, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, it's ongoing. My my son is going to school in Duluth, and I wish he was closer to me. I mean, there's it's these all these growth moments in your life teach you that you need to let go, that you need to let go of the things. You know, you you spend, at least for me, you spend your 20s and your 30s kind of building things, your family, your home, your thing. And then I think the second half of your life is spent learning to let those things go a little bit and learning to, you know, uh find fulfillment in in in the memories, find fulfillment in what my kids are doing in their lives and where they're going, and realizing that it's it's not all about me. It doesn't, it doesn't revolve around my life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, every time I let go of something, it kind of feels like an another layer of unveiling. And the other night I had the thought there's as many veils to unveil as there are stars in the sky. But that's how much deeper and closer my relationship with God can get, too. So that's like kind of scary, but also exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I liked on your website it says the the messy on the podcast, it says messy layers of life or something to that effect. And it's so true, right? Because in one moment you feel like you've got everything under control and everything's going well, and the next you're like, what have I been doing all my life? Like, why don't I have this figured out yet? So yeah, it definitely life can be a roller coaster when it comes to those things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and so do you think spiritual awakening often comes through destruction before going through peace?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think for people like me who are too dense to figure it out on their own, sometimes God has to like, you know, use, you know, I'm kind of like Jonah and the whale, right? Like, hey, you're not going there. I'm taking you back to where you need to be. And so for me, I think there there are definitely moments in life that break you down, that disrupt your life, that pull you away from where you thought you were gonna go. Like you have this image of your future, whether it's career, your family, your relationships, you have this own destiny, destination in mind. But sometimes you need to be pulled away from that for a different purpose. And um, more times than not, you know, it's kind of that I don't know if you're a country music fan, but the Garth Brooks song, Unanswered Prayers, you know, you have this vision of where your life's gonna be. And if you'd have told me at 25 that I'd be sitting in this chair and doing what I do for a career, I mean, I don't think I could have even imagined that it was gonna happen. And and so disruption, again, creates opportunity for you, and those challenges make you maybe more than you thought you could be, but certainly something different than you planned to be in your life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But for but I think also for people who are um more self-aware than I probably ever was, and more thoughtful, more prayerful, probably. I think a lot of people do figure it out without going through those things. They're just they're just more tender, they're more um they're more aware of energy and feelings, and um so not everybody has to go through the hard things to learn. I think some of us just take a little more pain to teach than others.
SPEAKER_02:Uh so this kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier, but um the man on the cross next to Jesus didn't perform good works, he just chose belief. So if salvation is freely given, why do so many people still feel like they have to earn love from God, from others, from themselves?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's one I struggle with still, uh honestly. Um and I think for for me, I'll speak for myself on this, is that I feel so unworthy of salvation, right? When you think about the way your mind works, the things you think about, the the sinful nature of our of our lives, to be worthy of being saved from all of that, that you you see you you haven't earned it. Clearly, we haven't earned it. But for for for our creator who who is perfect to offer it to us so freely and with so so little expectations on our part, it doesn't feel like it's real. It doesn't feel like like I deserve that. Um, and so that's something I struggle with. Again, as someone who believes in fixing and and and doing it themselves, to hand that over to God and say, I'm broken and I can't even fix myself. Please forgive me for what I for what I am, and and to be given that to me is just it's hard to fathom what that means and the sacrifice that was made for me to have that, for Jesus to go on the cross and die for my sins, for all of our sins, and to have that debt be paid before I was even imagined, and and to be able to live into that and and get up every morning and go to work and do the things that we do and know that that that salvation is waiting for me someday, it's just overpowering. And it's hard, it's hard sometimes to understand that I'm worthy of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I mean, why does God put us through it? But I think it's because of those moments that we do feel it feels that much better. If we just knew all the time that we were that loved, right, I mean, what would we get?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and I think it's the power of free will, right? God gave us free will to choose. And I I use the example of of of of a marriage, right? So so we're we're the groom and Jesus is the bride. We have a choice, right? If if you love someone, it doesn't matter how much you love them, like Jesus loves us. If if we don't love him back, the relationship can't exist, right? And that's free will. And and I think that to me is you know, the the peace and harmony that comes from salvation is understanding that that relationship is one that he wants more than we could ever imagine he wants it. And and and all we have to do is try to live into that and um just understand that we're never gonna measure up. And that's that's the nature of it, and that's the the grace of of God in our lives and and and in our existence. So I think it's pretty powerful.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, let's get into your role as CEO at ECentral Energy. So you started off as an electrician?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I'm an electrician by trade, worked down in the cities for a better part of a decade, and then um took a job as an electrician at ECE and then moved up uh through the ranks there. And while I was working there, I got my bachelor's degree and my master's degree, and um, so I have a bachelor's degree in business administration, a master's degree in strategic leadership, and then I'm an electrician by trade, and it's kind of a weird mix, uh, but it but it works really well. And um I've been in the role of CEO now for five years.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, so yeah, I thought that too, that those are kind of uh odd mix. Yeah. Were you just following what ear got said, or how did that happen?
SPEAKER_00:No, it's not that so so after high school I went to UMD and there was this blonde-haired girl in Pine City that I just really liked, and now I'm married to her. But I quit school after three years, and I was actually hanging sheetrock for um better part of two years, and my mom called me one day and she said, Justin, I really think you should go to school with your brother. He's gonna go to school to be an electrician. So my brother, uh Jeff Johns, owns Jeff's Outdoor Services, and so we were both going to school for a little while. My brother, I don't think, realized there was quite as much math involved in becoming an electrician, and also understood that he could make a lot more money uh doing what he does. And so he quit school. I finished school, became an electrician, kind of uh the rest is history. And it's kind of interesting because whenever I have my annual review with the board at ECE, I always tell them, you know, don't be afraid to give me a raise because I'll never make as much money as my little brother.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But it but it really was a winding road. And I I wouldn't trade it for anything because um I think that our our careers and our our knowledge and our ability to perform in our work environment is you know, it's one third experience, one third education, and one third mentorship, right? It it really is uh this mix of experiences that makes us who we are. Uh so a lot of these young people who graduate from college, they get out of high school, go to college, get their bachelor's degree, get a master's degree, maybe even a doctorate, and then go out in the world with you know limited experience. And so when we're hiring people at ECE, I, you know, you look at the degree and and all that, that's fine. But I want to hear about what's important to them. I want to hear about what they care about, what what makes them get up every day? Like what are they excited about in the world? Because that tells me a lot more about their character than which colleges on their degree, you know. I just it doesn't matter to me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no kidding. Um, so what do you attribute your success to because when you're asking, when you're aware enough to know to ask people that because that matters more than the school lane. Like what do you attribute knowing that and understanding that? Because that has to do with your success.
SPEAKER_00:For sure it does. And I it ultimately comes down to what we were talking about is do you care about people? We were just having I was just having a conversation with one of our vice presidents today about the importance of caring for the people that report to you. Um one thing that you'll never hear me say is the people at ECE don't work for me. All of us work for the membership. When I applied for the CEO job, when I interviewed, I told the board, I said, I report to the board of directors, but I work for the membership, just like every other employee in this organization. And of course, we have to have org charts and hierarchies, but but again, it's the spirit of service, of serving the membership, of understanding that there's a lot of you know disenfranchised, marginalized people in the community that we serve. And we need to have our eye on that. Like that's who we're here to serve the people of this community and and all of them. We work with legislators a lot, and those legislators have the, I always say they have the luxury of serving 51% of the population. We have to serve at ECE 100% of the population. And that pulls us in a lot of ways, a lot of different things that we have to think about. But for me, I was raised in a home of serving people, of of understanding that you're here, you're blessed, you need to bless other people with your life. And I think that is probably one of the things at core for me that drives me and and and has made me successful in my career. And I think that comes across um as authentic and it's really a part of uh of who I am.
SPEAKER_02:And it's funny because it's almost selfish because you get so much out of it when you serve people.
SPEAKER_00:And that's and thanks for tripping my guilty conscience for me. I appreciate that. But it's it's true.
SPEAKER_02:It's not on purpose, it's just a side effect.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it is, and and I uh, you know, I believe in this idea of an open hand. People who have an open hand, there were things that will go into their hand and out of their hand, but if you close your hand on the thing that you got last, then you can't receive anything else and nothing can go out, but nothing can come in. And so if you live your life, uh, and I'll be honest with you, my my brother Jeff is a perfect example of this. He gives so much in the community from his business, and but he knows that those things will come back to him. Like, and and I think if you can live your life like that, and this idea that, yeah, you're gonna have blessings, but but when you get the opportunity, bless other people. And it it does it look that old saying, what goes around comes around. It it's so true. If you're willing to give, you'll get you'll get more opportunity for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, when I got my first leadership role and I made a speech to everybody saying, I don't care how anybody else defines my role, I define it as making your lives easier. So come to me. Yep, don't be scared to ask.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Be in service of others. And uh another thing I told the board when I when I when they gave me the position, like in the first annual review, I said, so I'm 47 now, five years ago. I was, I think I was 41 when I got the job. And I said, I in all my life I would have never imagined I'd get that job, and especially to get it at 41 years old. And I said, I want to spend the rest of my career helping other people who work in this organization have at least a semblance of what this feels like, to be able to make a difference in the world, to be able to like make other people's lives better and and empower them to become more than they ever thought that they could be. And there's 200 employees at ECE. And so through the leadership of the organization, we try to empower people, we try to build them up, help them to see how they're making a difference in the organization and ultimately in our communities. And when you do that, there's a snowball effect that starts to occur. If I can make the the people who report to me understand that, and they can make the people that report to them understand and feel that, it it starts to take off and it develops its own momentum at some point. And we're we're enjoying that right now. And I'm not saying it exists everywhere in the organization because I'm an optimist, but I'm I'm not naive, right? Um, but but we're trying to do that, we're trying to establish that culture in the organization.
SPEAKER_02:I asked you before we started if you liked Simon Sinek, and you said yes, and I'm behind on episodes of his podcast, but there was one I started that he went to some um manufacturing company and he said they're they're doing it exactly like you're doing it. So maybe we'll uh tell Simon what you're doing, maybe a little episode at.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's nice. I'm a big fan. Like leaders eat last. This idea that you know you you need to take care of the people that you're charged with taking care of. I mean, the the best way that he says it is, you know, he'll ask the question, what is leadership? Leadership is caring about the people to the left of you and the people to the right of you. It's not about position, it's really not. And I've seen people in our organization who have no formal leadership role create momentum and and enthusiasm through their leadership because of their personality, because of how much they care about the people they work with. And that's it's a beautiful thing to see.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Simon says everybody can be a leader.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, so does your ego ever come out and you have to put it back in check in this position at 41?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so you don't get to a role that I'm like I'm in without having some ego. And I'll tell you, there was a person who I was probably 35 years old who told me if you're ever gonna become the CEO of ECE. You're gonna need to like check your ego. And I, you know, I had this confidence, right? I believed in myself. And and I was always told, well, if you're if you're gonna be a leader, you're gonna have to be influential, you're gonna have to be able to motivate people. And and and so that was a moment for me where I had to like start to understanding, start to understand what emotional intelligence was, start to understand how to read the room. And I'm not here to say that that's my strongest uh thing right now, but but I'm here to tell you that I'm working on it, right? And and I think um ego can be a really good thing, and it's important. It it allows me to get up in front of a crowd and be confident in what I say, be confident in the vision of our organization and where we're headed. But, you know, the the whole idea of the dichotomy of leadership, right? You have to have ego, but you also have to have self-awareness and humility to to uh counteract the the strength that can become a weakness.
SPEAKER_02:Literally every single thing is on a spectrum, like those things, and you have to find the balance in it. Like I was born with very high emotional intelligence and not so much regular intelligence, so that's the one I have to work on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When you make hard decisions, how does your faith actually show up in that moment?
SPEAKER_00:So I would say at core, the job of our organization is to create value for our members. That's a simple thing to say, much more difficult to deliver on. But but again, at core, it's it's about it's about caring for our members and it's about ultimately love. And that's not a word that gets thrown around a lot of workplaces. Um, but we at work we talk about four core values. Uh we use the acronym RICH: respect, integrity, courage, and humility. So respect is treating people the way that they want to be treated. It's not the way that you want to be treated, it's the way that they want to be treated. And so we we talk about that. What does that look like in our actions and our words and how we're communicating with one another? Integrity, doing the right thing even when nobody's watching. And um, it doesn't mean perfection, but it definitely does mean, you know, being focused on the mission of the organization and making making making decisions based on that. Courage is the willingness to ask questions, to speak up, to challenge the status quo. And I think as Midwesterners, we like to think that courage is kind of voluntary or optional, but we're trying to change that narrative to say that courage is expected. And then the last is humility, and humility is understanding that the people who come after us are gonna do what we do probably better than we do, and that's okay, that's the way it's supposed to be. And it's also understanding that if I was, if it was just me, your lights wouldn't be on. It takes all of us to do it, right? It takes the team. And so for me, from a faith perspective, it it's really about the team comes first. It's about loving them, it's about helping them understand that they're capable of more than they probably think that they are, and just helping people feel a sense of belonging. I think we all want purpose in our lives, like we've talked about, and helping them to see what they're capable of beyond what they've done before.
SPEAKER_02:Love that. Um, I've heard that you've never had a problem talking to the mad or irritated customers either, and I think that brings a lot of morale and inspires people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What else is your favorite way to inspire people?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think inspiring people is is all about having them see the light at the end of the tunnel, right? Not the big light at the end of the tunnel, just that there's a solution to the problem that's at play. And and I think a lot of times what we need to do is we need to look at look at what we've overcome in the past. And so what I like to do, and I uh what I need to do more of is to look back and say, look where we were a year ago, look where we were two years ago, and look how far we've come. So, yes, there's an obstacle in front of us, yes, there's a challenge in front of us, but we've done things way harder than this before. And if you can help people to see that, that they've they've accomplished much more than they probably remember, it gives them confidence to move forward. I do that with my kids a fair amount, uh, you know, when they're frustrated with something and I say, look at look at what you've accomplished in this aspect of your life or you know, with this activity or this thing that you've been involved with. Surely you can handle this. And and then sometimes they laugh at themselves and say, Well, yeah, I I can do that. Um, so it inspired inspires confidence in that way, and just helping them to understand that they're not alone. Like there's a whole team of people here to work on this. We're gonna get through this together. Yes, there's gonna be struggles. Yes, it's gonna be maybe a little bit painful for a while, but we can do this.
SPEAKER_02:I think the fact that you're not so busy that you can't do that for people, and if you're not that busy, your other leaders obviously I would think that you're making sure that they're not so busy either that they can't pick up on that stuff. And the reason I actually know that, and I forgot and wasn't gonna bring this up because I had forgotten about it, but one um of my friends that works at work works there said that when she got a promotion, the lady that told her she was promoting her started crying, she was so happy for her. And I was just freaking out for like two days about that. I couldn't stop thinking about it. How that person wasn't like, okay, yep, you're in the position, go go do it. They were like, they had the time to be sensitive and happy enough for that person. Like I thought that was so cool.
SPEAKER_00:And here's the deal like there's so much, there's so much of a need for authenticity in our relationships. And so, and I've told the VPs who report to me, any one of them could leave ECE and go become a CEO at another co-op. They could, they're capable of it. And if they did, would I be disappointed that they left? Yeah, but only for my own needs, I would be happy for them because I do care about them as people. And I think that that that feeling, that sentiment, that authenticity flows through the organization. That we we're all trying to figure out life together. And if you can find a way or if there's a path forward for you that's gonna benefit your family, I'm I'm here for you. I'll be cheering in the back for you. Like, and that's that's I think um when people know that and they believe that the organization feels that way about them, that that's a pretty empowering thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it's a lot easier to look at people in that light when you have a relationship with God.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Or something higher than yourself. You have some kind of belief that um there's something bigger out there than you. But I do know atheists that feel that way, are still that loving to people.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I just think it's easier.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, I would agree.
SPEAKER_02:Um, how else do you create engagement at work? Um, especially for people who have lost that passion or confidence in themselves.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I read a book when I was in uh when I was getting my master's degree called Magic. It's the power called the power of engagement. And MAGIC is an acronym. In electric space, we love acronyms, but uh this this acronym stands for meaning. In other words, people need to understand the purpose of the organization. Like, why are why are we here? What are what are we doing? Um, A is for autonomy. People need to be able to make some decisions about how they do their work, whether that's what time they work or how they do a process. It's a whole, it's the opposite of micromanaging, right? Give people autonomy. Growth. G is growth. So people need to sense that they're moving forward in their career, not stuck in the same spot. They might be in the same position, but they need to be given the opportunity to learn new things and develop new skills in their role. I is impact. They need to know that what they do impacts the organization's goals, that they're moving the ball forward. If every day you came to work and moved a pile of bricks from point A to point B, came the next day and moved them from point B to point A and kept doing that, uh, I don't care what I paid you, you would never think that you're making a difference. You would quickly figure that out. And so that's an extreme example. But for a lot of people, someone who works, you know, maybe in in finance or in HR at an electric cooperative, like if someone asks them, do you keep the lights on? They should say yes because they do make a difference. That what they do helps us accomplish our goals. And so that's that's impact. And then C is connections. So people have to be able to interact with other people. We love to send people to conferences so they can learn and grow, but also so they can create connections and feel more engaged in the work that they're doing. And if you can provide those five things meaning, autonomy, growth, impact, and connections to people, and you hire quality individuals, which is what we do really well, it's a recipe for success. People will choose to give uh because engagement really is about discretionary effort. It's about it's about bringing more than you've been asked to bring to the table. That's that's what engagement ultimately comes down to for me. And if you give people those five things, the odds that they're going to step up to the plate and give more than they've been asked goes up pretty, pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that makes sense. Because I mean, that's tied with purpose. Like if you're giving something that comes easy to you, it's just not gonna feel like you're doing as much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, and people they wanna they want to have their fingerprints on the product, right? So what the organization does, how it happens, they want to know that that you know, that the world knows that they were there, that they made a difference. And yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we all just want to know that we were here. Yeah, that's so true. What do you believe people crave in a leader the most? Like safety, purpose, structure, belonging.
SPEAKER_00:I think people I think people crave care. I think they want people who care about them. I think they create they crave clarity. I think they they also want a sense of direction. I think they want to know that that that we're moving towards something better, but they also want leaders who can articulate that, who can explain to them where we're going and why. I often use the example of going on a vacation. Okay. I have four kids, I've talked about them. If I said to my kids, we're gonna go on vacation, what's the first question they're gonna ask? Where? The next question is when, the next question is how. And so, as a leader, you should have a vision in mind. This is where we're going, this is the destination that we're headed to. And then you should be articulating to all of the employees and all the stakeholders, this is this is where we're going, this is how we're gonna get there, this is these are the steps we're gonna take. And you got to work with them because they're the ones that are gonna pack suitcases, they're the ones that are gonna load the car. So you need to help the employees understand like this is where we're going and this is when. Help me understand how we can get there, right? And they're they're usually the employees know more than the leader does about how we're gonna do those things, but they need to know where we're headed. I think that's what people are craving.
SPEAKER_02:Especially the younger generations, they uh crave that so much where I think maybe older generations were maybe a little bit more compliant and they were raised like, let's just do what we're told to do and we're supposed to, but I love that they they care more.
SPEAKER_00:Like, why does this matter? Why does what we do matter? Like, tell me why it matters.
SPEAKER_02:Ask that. Ask that every day, all day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:It's great. Um, I had just heard that like American schools try to push information into kids where other countries might try and pull information out to see where they thrive. So, do you see leadership more about direction or about lifting people up to who they already are?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, kind of what we're already talking about, but yeah, and you know, this kind of goes a little bit back to the ego question or the ego conversation of like seeking to understand before you try to explain. You know, it's that old saying of nobody cares what you know until they know how much you care. So, like listening to people, I I just had a I I like to sit down with new employees at like the about the eight-week mark when they've been there for a couple months. They know where the bathrooms are, they know how to do their timesheet, and they've got a little bit of a feel of the organization. And then I want to check in with them and be like, how's it going? Like, what's been great about being here and what's not been great, and just getting a sense of of of what's important to them. And then I start to ask them questions about, you know, what what do you like about this place? And what what have you seen that is a positive or a strength of the organization? And they might not be able to like build direction, but at least they're given their opinion about things, gives them a chance to interact, gives them a chance to to feel like they're you know coming up in the organization a bit and being um being heard. I think I think that's that's really important. Uh and and giving people a chance to give feedback throughout their career is really, really important. And sometimes people's feedback, the feedback that they give you is not directly actionable, but just having the sense of being heard can make all the difference for people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think we act so differently when we're h heard. What's the scientific thing that's like something doesn't exist until it is seen?
SPEAKER_01:I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02:Well, maybe we uh something about us isn't something until or heard. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um what do you how do you lead people with grace and accountability at the same time?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I you know there's a saying out there that the most powerful form of feedback is peer-to-peer. So it's really hard to give people feedback if you don't have a relationship with them. Because, you know, it just doesn't matter to them necessarily, unless you're, you know, gonna fire them or do something like that. But if someone knows that you value them, that they know that that you have certain expectations of them because of what they've done, and then you come and talk to them about a way that they've missed, I think that that means a lot more. And and and but but I think the whole idea of grace is extremely important. And I it comes from humility, it comes from me telling people, listen, I screwed up a lot of times this morning already. And so, like, it's okay that you make mistakes, but if if we're not learning from our mistakes, if we're not progressing, um, I I like when I talk with employees about integrity, one of the things I share is I'd been at the organization for like two months and I picked up a water heater and put it in the back of the truck and it fell out on the road. It's like a thousand dollar water heater. Like, I thought I was gonna get fired over this. And I called my manager at the time and he said to me, he said, Justin, I'm not really happy that it happened, but I know that you didn't intend for it to happen. And so I think intent is a big thing in terms of you know accountability and grace. Uh, if an employee makes an honest mistake, that's okay. If they walk up to the front desk, open up the cash register, and take a$10 bill out, that's a whole different conversation, right? Because, you know, intent, right? Um, and so I I'm a big believer that feedback, you should never give someone or hold someone accountable for something they didn't know about. Right? They they should understand what the rules of the road are before you start giving them traffic tickets.
SPEAKER_02:Oprah always says, when you know better, you do better.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:That's right.
SPEAKER_00:Give people second chances. They people generally deserve them. And um the other thing is, you know, that whole glass houses thing. Like, don't, don't, don't expect more of people than you would expect of yourself. And sometimes, sometimes leaders fall into that trap of really trying trying to have too high of expectations for perfection.
SPEAKER_02:I can catch myself doing that. Definitely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, do you think businesses have a moral responsibility beyond profit?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, of course they do. Yeah, the whole idea of corporate social responsibility for me is a big deal. Electric cooperatives, um, you know, we we do generate a margin every year. It's how we that's how we run our balance sheet, it's our equity, and and there's a whole if you're really boring, you can talk about finance, but um, but beyond that, we we operate by seven cooperative principles. And the seventh principle is commitment to community. And so for us, that looks like uh a lot of donations, a lot of giving back to the community, helping with economic development where we can. Um, we we have a very strong community engagement committee who does some philanthropic work. We do education, we do safety training, uh, we're at community events, community events like parades and county fairs and things like that. So, yeah, I mean, I my favorite quote on that is healthy cooperatives lead to healthy communities, healthy communities lead to healthy cooperatives. Um, and it's a very symbiotic relationship between electric utilities, electric cooperatives, and the communities that they serve. And so we have an obligation to care for the community and to care for the people who um you know who are struggling the most. And that's probably one of the things for me that is most challenging is building a strong organization that's successful while still understanding that you know there's people that are struggling every month to pay their electric bill. That's that's definitely one of the bigger challenges. Um, and that's why I talk about this word value a lot. Um, you know, I like to say that some things are expensive and some things are valuable. Really good employees are valuable. Um, wasting money is expensive. And so as we make decisions, like how does it impact our members? How does it create value for our members? And that's a that's a big conversation we have a lot of time.
SPEAKER_02:Sounds like Veda's future job. Um, I'm being head of a committee like that. That'd be great. And yes, I get that financial email. I don't read it. Right. Uh if the world healed a little more because you existed, what part of it would you want to have touched?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's kind of that old boy scout motto of like, you know, leave it better than you found it, right? That's I think um when you live life in a like I would like to think that a lot of times in my life I'm living in that kind of that Maslow's hierarchy of needs and that self-actualization, which is a really privileged place to be, right? Um, so it comes back to that, you know, to those who have been given a lot, a lot is expected. And um, for me, I I want the people that I know. If my funeral is tomorrow, I would want the people that I know to say he cared about the people that were around him, he cared about his family, he cared about the people that he worked with, he cared about the community, and he made us all realize that we're not, you know, left or right or black or white, we're just people trying to figure this thing out. And and another thing I tell people a lot is like, we're not here that long. Like, I'm 47 years old, I don't think I'm gonna live to be 90. So I'm over half the way there. And what have I what have I done that does make a difference? And so don't get caught up on these little things, these trivial things. Like, focus on the big picture, think about it, and and figure out, you know, make your plans. They certainly won't work work out the way that you want them to, but at least have a plan and and work towards that. And so for me, I just want people to, I know not everybody's gonna like me, like my role is gonna necessitate that, but I hope that people would would would say that I that I did the best that I could with with what I was given, and that I and that I made people feel appreciated, feel valued, and like they made a difference.
SPEAKER_02:Great. Well, perfect um segue into the next segment, which is where I reveal to you how people see you because I asked you to pick some people that I could reach out to to describe you, and then I put all of those words into themes. So your first word is steadfast.
SPEAKER_01:Steadfast.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:People said loyal and dedicated and dependable, reliable, supportive, respectful, safe, selfless, and responsible. Second word is persistent, driven, hardworking, disciplined, determined, tenacious, and motivated. Third word is astute, intelligent. Three people said intelligent. Two people said strategic, visionary, intuitive, innovative. Fourth word is nurturing, because you're loving, empathetic, sincere, supportive, selfless. And fifth word is valiant. Couple people said courageous, confident, bold, unapologetic, and charismatic.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Those are some big words to live up to.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I hope it doesn't feel like that. Um, the whole purpose is because a lot of us have a hard time seeing the good in ourselves.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So, and then AI and I wrote up a synopsis together. And it is you don't just shine for the world, you warm it. You don't just protect what matters, you let God be seen through you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's beautiful. I um yeah, I mean, I, you know, you spend your your time, your life trying to live a certain way and do a certain thing, and you hope hope people see it that way, but you never you never know what people think for sure. And so I appreciate that. That's great feedback.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And please remember you are not these words. You are not your thoughts. You are the space between the words, the space between the thoughts. You're the one who knows you have thoughts. Observe them, reflect on them, but know you are not them. So, what do you do right now that you hope your grandkids do when they're your age?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my golf?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, that's a good one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because that's a very disciplined, slow, internal, independent sport. I think it's good to play um team sports. Yeah. But golf, you know, it's uh Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, I hope, I hope that my, you know, one of the things that I tell my kids is, you know, there's only one CEO in every company, and there's not a lot of not a lot of positions like mine. And so one thing I tell my kids a lot is fulfillment and making a difference isn't about how high you are on the food chain. It's about the difference that you make in the lives of the people you're around and you're with. And so I hope that my kids and my grandkids, I hope they know Jesus. I hope they, you know, going back to Phil Robertson, right? Love God, love people. Like just keep it simple. You don't need to make life so complex. Um, there's a lot of people that are struggling, and you might be the person that can make a difference, right? You might be the one who puts your arm around somebody and says, Hey, how's it going? in the most authentic way that saves that person from something that is is mounting in their life. And and so, like one thing my kids are really good at is being good friends to their friends. And I just that makes me so proud of them that they're that they're the they're the kid that people want to be around, that that kids gravitate to, and that they're just they're good buddies, good friends. Like, that's amazing. Like, and I don't think that came from me. Like, I my wife is a special person, right? And um, but just being empathetic and and being good people, someone that you know that people want to be around and that make people feel better. Because again, life's short and it's it's damn tough sometimes, right? So just be good to people. That's what I hope my kids and my grandkids are doing someday, no matter what their jobs are, their careers or what they're where they live and what they're doing, just try to make the world a better place.
SPEAKER_02:Love it. And is there anything that you do right now that you hope your grandkids don't do when they're your age? Anything you need to stop doing?
SPEAKER_00:Um I hope I hope that my grandkids don't um I hope they don't have I hope their faith walk can be a little bit easier than mine was. Uh that guilt that I have, that not measuring up, that's a and I don't know where that comes from. I don't think it comes from my childhood, but I just I just it's a lot to bear sometimes in terms of just not feeling like it's enough. I think it's a little bit of a Gen X thing, just to be clear, um, of just like always wanting to, you know, uh meet expectations. And uh one thing I say to my sons especially is like you are enough. Like you, you are enough. You I love you for who you are, in hopes that they'll never have that feeling of trying to to measure up to some standard that's just unachievable. That's that's one thing I hope they don't do. I hope they don't measure themselves against things that are that are unachievable. Social media does that to people. Um, so yeah, I I that's one thing I really hope they don't have to deal with in their life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is weird where that comes from. Um, but I think you could be right because yeah, the generations above Gen X maybe kind of accidentally instilled that because that's what they knew. And also I think we have our ancestors' genes in us way more than we are consciously aware of.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, good. Okay, so we may not have put your why into words, but we figured out the essence. And for those who don't know what a why is, it's not about money, it's not about ego, is isn't about success or about impressing others. It's the emotional driver, the thing that makes you do hard things and keep going, the reason people feel something around you. So thank you for showing us the essence of yours. And my last question is what do you think God's why is?
SPEAKER_00:I think God's why is, you know, it goes back to that concept that I talked about of the marriage between the church and Jesus. I think God's why is to to his hope and his his his just desire for us to be in love with him, to love him and to accept him as our savior. His why is his love for us. Like he he just all he wants is for us to open our arms and allow us, you know, to be in relationship with him. Um, I saw um a friend of ours passed away year a few years back, and when she when she passed away, I saw this this picture, and it's a picture of Jesus hugging a woman. Um, and you know, the idea was that she passed away and that he that she came to heaven and Jesus is embracing her and the look on her face of just pure joy, like that's what God wants. That's his why. His why is us, we are his why. Like he wants all of us to come to him and to be open to that relationship. But just like any bride, if if the husband or the suitor isn't in love with them, they can't be in relationship. And so, yeah, we're we're his why. Like every one of us, every one of us, from the people that society says are the best to the people that society says are the worst. We're all his why.
SPEAKER_02:Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This is so great. Is there anything else you wanted to share that we didn't get to?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I just want to say like I do a lot of public speaking and I don't get nervous. And I wasn't really nervous for this, but I was really curious. And I it was so much fun. I really enjoyed it and um just great, insightful questions. I think you did a fantastic job of setting it all up. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Thank you. Thanks.