Stronger Without The Escape - Sam

He chose New Year’s for his last drink because he wanted a date he couldn’t argue with later. That small decision opens a much bigger story. We’re joined by Sam Truen, who talks with us about blackouts, cravings, jail, and the quiet daily work of becoming someone you can live with.

We follow Sam’s sobriety journey from early “I can handle it” bargaining to the moment he admits alcohol doesn’t mix with his emotions. Then we go deeper into the parts people don’t always connect to drinking: adoption and abandonment, lifelong trust issues, family depression and suicide, and the way painful stories can shape your identity until you challenge them. The goal isn’t a tidy recovery timeline. It’s a real conversation about alcohol addiction recovery, mental health, accountability, and learning to sit with feelings instead of escaping them.

Sam also shares what helps now: leaving when triggers hit, finding new dopamine through work and nature, swapping in tea and soda water, and staying present on purpose. We end with a powerful reflection as we read words from the people who know him best and he practices receiving them.

If you’ve ever searched for how to quit drinking, how to stay sober, or how to rebuild self-trust, this one will hit. Subscribe, share it with someone who needs a light, leave a review, and tell us what “freedom” looks like for you now?

0:00 Hook, Guest, And Song Choice

2:10 Drinking Starts And The Quit Cycle

4:43 Two Years Sober And New Fun

11:55 Adoption, Identity, And Trust Issues

24:24 Family Suicide And Suicidal Thoughts

32:09 Police, Jail, And Juvenile Detention

38:58 Staying Sober With Triggers And Freedom

54:18 Ego Death In A Dark Night

1:05:12 Purpose, Presence, And Meaningful Work

1:16:49 Being Seen, Faith, And Next Steps

1:36:43 Comedy Plans And Goodbye

Transcript

Hook, Guest, And Song Choice

SPEAKER_04 0:00

The the light that I needed. It was it was the information I needed to hear. It was the sadness I needed to feel. It was the pain that I needed to feel and see. And really I don't think without that, what one probably wouldn't have made me quit drinking. I think that played a part in it.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Welcome to SuperNot, where we explore the inner and outer dimensions of the self. Today our guest is Sam Truman. Sam and I met at Kev's where I used to bartend. When Sam was sober, I saw him as calm, collected, and insightful. And when he was drinking, he was getting into trouble. But now he's been alcohol-free for over two years. So I asked you to pick a song for us to listen to before we started so we could get on the same frequency. What song did you pick?

SPEAKER_04 0:52

I picked uh Noah Con, uh No Complaints.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Why did you pick that song? Uh uh.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

There's he says a few of the lyrics are uh they relate to me a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

So I saw the end and it looked like the metal that is so beautiful. How we live now is what the end's gonna look like. It's not just gonna magically turn into something that we think it is. You have to work now.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

That's what I got out of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Well, some of the lyrics he says, I finally got sewed up, set a time and I showed up. Now the weight of the world ain't so bad. And that's really stuck with me. Because I for a while it was really, really, really not on a good path. And then it was up to me to make a change. And uh now everything isn't really that bad. I really don't have very many complaints. But I'm here to talk about what it takes to get to that point. And like the sacrifices you have to make.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

So when did you start drinking?

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Sort of late. Like probably 17.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Do you remember your first drink?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah. It was uh Captain Morgan. Straight.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

And then what? What was your relationship with alcohol like?

SPEAKER_04 2:35

It didn't really take off like I wasn't just constantly getting it, but then I had ordered a fake and the normal and then I would go and try it different places and you know, find the the one store and then continuously and then then it got worse. I also think I I it would get worse as stuff happened in life. You know, some people are good drinkers and some people it just doesn't it doesn't mix. And for me, I'm just it just doesn't mix. It definitely doesn't mix when there's emotions and stuff behind it.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Before you quit this time for good, how many times have you tried to quit?

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Uh I mean like you know, you can go a week and I mean is that really quitting? You just didn't do it really.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

But were you saying like I'm just gonna go one week or were you trying to go longer?

SPEAKER_04 3:40

It would start like that, and then I would, I mean, then it was two weeks and then oh uh Saturday, uh big event, you know. It doesn't those two weeks don't matter. It doesn't really matter. I'll try again. But really, really, really try. I went like six months. Then I I was like, oh, I I don't have a problem if I can go six months, and then I went and I would go and have maybe one or two during the week, and then it was three or four, and then it was like right back into you would think, oh, I'm better now at it.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

I I have a grip on it, I can handle it.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Just lies after lies you're telling yourself.

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Yeah. But then I think I I think I got like nine months, and then I was I don't think there was a certain thing in my life that I was like, I need to quit now for good. I think I finally saw it happen to everybody else that I was like, okay, I really need to quit for good.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, so I saw you around your one-year mark, and you were feeling great. Everything was awesome. And now I haven't seen you for another year and longer, year and a few months. So, how's this second year been? Just as good, harder?

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Uh I'd say more rewarding. Because I was, you know, the one year you're just trying it out kind of thing. It's from the start, and then it's kind of you're like kind of floating in this realm of you're not really doing anything, you haven't really accomplished anything.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

You're just trying to like you're holding on tight to make sure you don't fuck up again. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

And then uh once you once you pass the one year, you know, if you're a person who is, you know, I I I post about it. I wanted, I wanted people to know, I wanted people to to see what I'm doing. And I I I get to pick and that's the beauty of it. I get to pick and choose what I post on social media and and what I agree with. And and I I I post about it. I do I'm decided to do on the date that I'll I'll do a favorite picture of the year. So second year definitely more rewarding as more stuff is happening. Because stuff good things do happen when in my case, good things have been happening when I have I have extra time on my hands. You know how much time I've wasted drinking? I have so much more time if I utilize that time and do something useful with it. Even it doesn't even have to be that much useful as long as it's just a little bit 1% more useful than because the drinking was 0%. You know, it I I used to use it like, oh, I can't have fun if I don't drink. It's just not true because I haven't drank in two and a half years, and I'm having so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

What is the difference in this fun? What type of fun?

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Uh well, I really fell in love with like working. So anything that has to do with work, which if you work a lot, and then if you make work fun, I mean I'm having fun all the time.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah. Was there a moment when you realized you're not just drinking, but you're becoming someone new?

SPEAKER_04 7:14

Uh, when I when I was when I was drinking, like what I become someone else?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

No, was there a moment when you were sober after a period of time, maybe that nine months you brought up?

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

That you're like, okay, I made it nine months, now I'm like pretty much someone new.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Yeah. I think uh I had to because I can I can see it from so many different ways. I I don't know if it's just me, but I can I can I can look at it in so many different ways and kind of play different scenarios out in my head. And so I I do that from time to time about myself and yeah, I feel like I am becoming such a better person. But does that is that greater than than because the pat my past is still my past. There's stuff that I can't undo and and stuff that I have to take ownership of, and I'm not really I mean I'm a good person, but like, am I the greatest? No, probably not, not even close. But yeah, uh but that's the beauty of becoming a a a newer version of yourself is you have to look back and you have to see what you did and the mistakes you made, and you have to you have to be accountable for that. And I think that's the fun part, honestly, is is being like, wow, me back in the day, I would have totally not have done that, and I would have handled that in a completely different way.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

So when those situations come up and you can handle them differently, that's what's fun. Are you looking back at the things you did and taking accountability for those things and forgiving yourself and loving your past self also? Is that part of that?

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

Um, there's there's just I spent a lot of years drinking so many. And there's there's stuff that people will tell me that I'm like, did that happen? Like, I don't even I don't remember. And and then I have to take it, take in the information from so someone else, and just have to own up to something that I don't even remember doing. It's like I didn't do it, but I did it. And that those those ones are the worst.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Did you have a dramatic last drink story then, or was it just another, okay, I'm hungover, I'm going to quit for as long as I can? Or was there like, do you remember your last night of drinking?

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Yeah. Uh it was New Year's. I was like, I kind of was like, well, this is an easy day to remember, so why not? And uh no, I mean I I I went into town here and had like a couple, and I was like, all right, well, let's just be done.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

I think I had a bushlight and a long island.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

And for me, it helped to have like a good story west. I had a good moment. I was in Iceland and it was like, okay, this this'll be a good way to remember. It wasn't just like a regular night, so I can see how New Year's Eve would be a good one to make it last.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Why do you not drink?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I blacked out all the time, sometimes after three or four drinks. Um, and every time I said, Oh, I'm just gonna have one or two, it ended up being ten. And I was sick of not remembering. So, yeah. Um, what's something that you used to believe about yourself that now you know wasn't true?

SPEAKER_04 11:12

I used to I'm really I'm really good at like putting on like a face. Like no matter what. Like you wouldn't even have a clue. And I think it's a little bit of a shield. I use that as a little bit of a shield to because I'm like if my ego gets gets cracked, I I got nothing. I don't know that's not a good way to live or or or maybe not that good, but it's something that I've I've always done.

Adoption, Identity, And Trust Issues

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Okay, so you're adopted and you said you wanted it too, or that we could talk about that?

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Yeah. I was adopted at 11 months. I was born in uh Minneapolis, Minnesota at HCMC. And I don't have a relationship with my biological parents.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Were you with them until you were 11 months or where were you?

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Foster care. So my biological mom left the same day. So that has obviously played a part in my life. Cause like most people, I shouldn't say most, but if you like collectively look like look at society like mother and father, and then there's a kid, and they're there, everyone's happy. And you don't think about it when you're younger, but as you get older and as you keep getting more and more of an understanding of life, you're like kind of just can't help yourself but imagine or think back then, like, well, why wasn't my mom happy? Or why why did she leave, you know, and other people get to get brought into the world so loved and then some people have to fight for it and they have no control over it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Would have it been easier to hear that your mother died?

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Probably.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

So if that's true, then it's true that it's a story in your head, and that's why it affects you. Like, do you think your life would be different right now if you had been told that she died?

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Yeah, uh, but I think different in a way that I just wouldn't think about it as much.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Because it'd be it'd be so then it is a story that you are choosing, not that it's easy, it's the hardest thing in the world to stop telling ourselves the stories about ourselves that we believe. But just for everybody listening, I just want to say that that um you can change the narrative almost impossible, but the stories that we believe about ourselves affect our emotions. So when did it really start bothering you? Do you remember what age you were when you found out that you were abandoned?

SPEAKER_04 14:48

Um, probably around five. Say like five or six.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

Around that time. And it's like kindergarten time, you're going to school, you're like, okay, well, my parents are white, and you're kind of like getting, you're seeing more people, you're getting, you're getting outside more, you're going more places, you're at the age where your memory's starting to actually stick, and you're getting a grasp on things. So I think about five or six is when I started to really know, and it didn't bother me at first. Because I was like, I'm no different. You know, I have a sister and mom and dad, and and I mean, are they not blood, but the they are my family.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Did you have to go? Did was there a point where you asked your parents what why are we different color? Or did were they explaining it to you?

SPEAKER_04 15:43

Yeah. Uh they would they would uh explain it when asked, and I would, you know, the questions just keep coming and coming as you get older and and you you start experience life more. So I don't think they ever stop. Even though I don't ask them to my parents anymore, but in my head, I don't think they ever stop.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

So five, six years old start feeling that way, how did you cope? How do you remember feeling? How did it affect you at that age?

SPEAKER_04 16:19

It was hard. Because whenever something wouldn't go your way, or or you'd get upset about something, and then I I would get sent to my room and I would go in there, and then I'd probably be fine for like the first half hour, and then I gotta be in there. And two hours isn't long now. It's not, but back then it was forever. Oh yeah. So about probably about an hour 15, and I'm like and what and then they would always come back when when the time was done, and every time they'd come back, I'd start asking questions like I feel bad now, but like, so why'd you adopt me just to yell at me? Like stuff like that, like what do you want me to do? Just mow your grass, like stuff that doesn't even make sense, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

You started playing victim, yeah, but probably because you were trying to get those questions answered of why do other kids come into a loving world automatically? What's different about me? Why wasn't my mom one of those moms?

SPEAKER_04 17:24

I think it's also another uh like a trust thing. Cause okay, so like if you're not my real parents, then like who is why is no one telling me? Why can't I know? Because you you keep you don't have access to information until you're 18. And so like when you're seven, eighteen seems way far away, you know. So it's like, well, you're never gonna tell me, is what I thought. You're like, I I'm never gonna know who I mean who really are you, like, and and it's the constant, I think it comes with the constant thought of some some someone's not doing something good, something good's not here. And I I mean I still have trust issues to this day. And that's not the only reason, but a big reason is because of that.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

And were you also pushing them away to see if they still loved you if you were acting out?

SPEAKER_04 18:29

Yeah, to see if to see if what they were saying i is real is is what is real is kind of my aim.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Like pushing every boundary to figure it out.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

To get to the truth of things.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

And I didn't know very many kids growing up that were also adopted.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah. Yeah. Is there any groups around where adopted kids can hang out with other adopted kids and like group therapy about it? That's a good question. Maybe that's your calling. Start that group.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

That's a great idea.

unknown 19:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Like other homeschooled kids get to hang out with other homeschooled kids.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

And I know that I'm not the only person that feels like this.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Oh, I think it's very common.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

My mom's adopted. But her mom, her bio mom, gave her up at 17. At well, when she was when she had her at 17 and gave her up at 17.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

That would be kind of weird. Like there's a year left. You're not my child anymore.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Yeah. But um she she met her and she's still in our family now.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Yeah, my grandma Polly.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

When uh you turned 18 then, did you look into it and get the answers?

SPEAKER_04 19:53

No. I remember when I turned 18, uh, that was like my last summer before college. So I I and I was gonna go wrestle, so I wasn't really focused on that. That was kind of like last thing I wanted to do. My dad's given me some paperwork over the past couple of years. It's sitting in my safe though.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Have you looked at it?

SPEAKER_04 20:19

No, not even the first page.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Do you think you're for a while?

SPEAKER_04 20:24

I don't know. I don't know what the packet says.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Do you know where your dad is? Or anything about him?

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Like my biodad? Yeah. No, no, no. No, not my biodad. I don't know anything about him.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Okay. But so all you know is that your mom left the day that you were born. Yeah. And don't know anything else. No.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Yeah, the packet's got like it's I think something in there said HCMC, and then so I know it's like real documents and Hennepin County government documents, but I just don't know what the information is gonna do for me. What if it's not what I'm looking for? What if it's not what I made up in my head? What if it's not something I wanna read? What if something I can't unlearn?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Have you gone back to your five and seven-year-old self and done some work there and told your younger self that someday you're not gonna need to know. You're gonna be okay with not knowing.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

I I can't remember if I if I've ever You know I often tell myself everything's gonna be fine, you're gonna you're gonna be alright. And then something bad'll happen and then I I'll I'll lose myself. And that's when I would turn to the alcohol. So now when I don't have that as in my back po you know, when I don't have that in my back pocket, it's it's it's tougher. But now, now I can I can see that I'll be I'll be alright.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Have you thought about having anybody that you really trust read it and see what they think and they you can give them all the permissions to either burn it or tell you about it?

SPEAKER_01 22:32

No, I have not. Maybe that's a job for you.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

I would do that. I would I would love to do that. Um what else about adoption?

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Uh well I was saying that um goddamn This is this is tough. Uh I think it played a part, well, I mean, it obviously plays a part to this day, so it definitely played a part further on in my childhood. Uh you know, me and my mom would fight a lot, and my dad was not really there. Kind of sort of checked out and kind of had his own things going on.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

What's your relationship with him now?

SPEAKER_04 23:38

Great. He's the best. He's the reason I am who I am today, hands down. He is so strong, so smart, and has uh even with his his his uh absence, it taught me everything, everything I needed to to know about how to get through life.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

It's a beautiful perspective. But I'd imagine when he was absent, you were thinking in your head, why adopt me if you're not gonna be around?

Family Suicide And Suicidal Thoughts

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Yeah, I didn't I didn't I didn't understand I didn't understand why he was being absent. Um his brother committed suicide. So that obviously kind of ruined things. I think I was six or seven. No, I was seven, my sister's five. So after that, he was just kinda as would anyone be, depressed. I was kind of too young to understand it. And now that I'm I'm older, it's it's clear to me. I've been able to look back on every day, every time I walked to my dad's room and he was sleeping, or every time he was just sitting on his computer, just munching on snacks, not wanting to go outside, shades closed, you know, because I've experienced that now myself. So it it it's like makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

But that's hard on a kid. Yeah, there's no way to understand that. Do you know what he did to transition out of that?

SPEAKER_04 25:25

It wasn't really until recently that he's kind of been more on on the up and up. And I'm 27, so are him and your mom still together? No. So that's also played a little part in it, but he's got a uh way different outlook on life that is probably the outlook that I I would have told him to have had I known what was going on. Because I mean, as the years went on and and I was just like, this is just who he is. I mean, if you it was seven, I was you know super young still, still my memory still just starting and playing sports and stuff, and every night, I mean, it just got to be this point where that's just what he does. He's so tired from work and so over-exhausted from work that he just wants to go lay down, or he just doesn't want to do anything, and that's what I thought. But really, it's he was fighting demons that he had no way of explaining to his his kids even as they got older, because either he one, I mean it obviously hard, but two, like he didn't want me to see that. He didn't want me to have to to feel what's he's feeling. I'm growing up, you know. He's he's already grown. He didn't he wanted me to to have my my my own life and and and not have to experience the the weight and the sadness he was feeling.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, he was probably having voices in his head about like negative about himself, so anything he said to you, he knew would project onto you. So in his mind, it was probably like, let's put some distance.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Yeah. And it it's it's played a part so much that I've had like a couple years ago a buddy take his own life, and two weeks before that, I'd asked to buy the gun that he used, you know. Uh with my my dad, I remember going over to my grandma's to get all the guns out of the house because that's where uh you know my dad's brother was staying at the time. You know, and it just sh and I've I can't stop thinking about it because it one, it bugs me because I was like, how close was I? Really, like, uh did I have to offer a couple a couple more hundred bucks? Like, did I have to ask him again? Like, how close was I? You know, and I didn't even think about that until I was like, okay, now I I I the only memory I have is uh when I was seven going on a cold winter day to my grandma's house and and seeing my dad take out a bunch of guns. It's like okay, now I have a I I know it's it's so similar and it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

But you rationally know it's not your fault, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Have you had suicidal ideations?

SPEAKER_04 28:49

I think everybody has at least thought of the idea of it or the idea of what comes after. At least I know I've probably thought about my funeral more times than I've thought about getting married. But that's because I've lived a life that's had me super close to death. And uh have I've had the I don't even give a shit attitude.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

I've seen you that way, wild, reckless.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

Yeah. And uh yeah, I've I've I've I've I've thought about it. It's it's in those moments that you're like you it's it's like a tunnel and and then it's it's up to you to you know bring back bring back the light and and and uh figure out a way. There's there's a different way.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah, you said that. You said there's a light at the end of the tunnel. How did you see it in your darkest times?

SPEAKER_04 30:10

Uh well with it with it being in my family and and uh having someone someone I knew do it and and being close to it, it's it's easier to decide not to do it. I would say every time it's more and I would I would I'm not and I don't think I'm gonna do it every time. It's it's more of a it's just a thought that like passes by like it could be so much as me driving and seeing a graveyard, imagining my my uh headstone there with my name on it. It doesn't have to be the act of doing it. I would say that the the the beauty of it is is is I I I want to do good and I I want to not only make myself happy, I want to make my dad happy, I want to make my mom happy, I want to make my family happy, my sister want to make people happy. And everybody gets their turn. And and and if if I choose to to to not be cremated and have a headstone, there's a time for that, but it's not right now. I got so much to get done.

unknown 31:38

Good.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah, how you uh explained thoughts made me think of our mind is a sky, and thoughts are just clouds, and it's up to us to decide which ones we cling on to.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

That's a good way to look at it. And I'll probably look at it that way from now on every time I see a cloud because I like to be in nature, and that's where I get a lot of my peace from. So I'll probably I'll probably start thinking like that.

Police, Jail, And Juvenile Detention

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah. Okay, so you uh had mentioned that you had struggles with law enforcement. You want to get into that?

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Yeah. Um and this is kind of where I was seeing other people like get in trouble, and and I've been lucky a few times to to get away, and I've been unlucky and have been gotten caught, and I've been to jail not that long, but going to jail once you don't want to go back, it's not a very fun place.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

I kind of have an urge to go. It sounds like an experience, but no, you're saying it's not not good.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

It's even worse like when you don't know that you went there and you wake up there.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:51

You know, you're like, uh, we'll just wake up, you're like, I'm gonna go make some food and you look around and concrete and no.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

The beds aren't comfy?

SPEAKER_04 33:01

No. Lights are on the entire time. But yeah, drinking has gotten me in in a lot of trouble. Uh I'm sure I'm sure we can. We uh when I was a when I was a kid, I had a few run-ins with law enforcement. Me and my mom would get into arguments. I'm not a small child. Uh she would get nervous or or whatever, or like couldn't get me to stop yelling, or or or some some something that it would it would get the the cops to come to the house. And they used to they've probably been there like ten times.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

So did you have a bad view on them right away from that age?

SPEAKER_04 33:54

I wanted to be a cop. And that's what really sucked. And it's kind of probably the reason I'm not a cop today is because of those things. Not that I have like my criminal record's fine. But it's it's the those those memories and and that, and and plus I like what I'm doing now. But like they would come all the time. We'd get in arguments, or I mean I remember one time I said I was gonna kill the dog. Me and my mom were screaming, the dog got all all antsy, bit me. I was bleeding, and I was mad, and I was like, I'm gonna kill the dog. And then I actually grabbed scissors. I wasn't actually gonna kill the dog, but I was I was that upset because my mom was mad at me for the dog biting me, you know. My mom's screaming at me, and we're both we're both screaming at each other, so I'm like, okay, so we're both equally wrong. The dog bites me, yes, the dog doesn't know. But then if if my reaction to the dog biting me is I'm I'm angry at the dog, like it doesn't make me feel good that my mom's yelling at me like it's my fault. I mean it's both our faults, you know. So I was and then it would just escalate and cops would come and I went to jail one time there too. I was I was a minor though, so I got wiped. But then I I I got put on probation and I think I think this is around 16 or 17. I I had uh we got in another argument and ended up being that I broke probation. So I had to go get evaluated for a month. I was supposed to go to the state fair. And the day I was supposed to go, the cops came, handcuffed me, brought me to juvenile detention center downtown, spent the weekend there. No phone, no nothing. My friends last thing I said was like I'm on my way, boom, I'm gone for a month. And school's just starting. So my junior year, I'm missing a month of school. It's it's fucking embarrassing going back. And I tell you what, everyone's like, Where were you? Because nobody misses a month. Or if you miss a month, there's a reason for it. So you can't be like, I was gone. You know, they're gonna be like, Where were you? So I didn't tell all these people like I had to get evaluated by doctors or like what are you like a psychopath? You know, it's just I'm 16, 17, like it was not fun to miss the first month of school.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Did it end up being a good thing though?

SPEAKER_04 36:48

Not really, because like they they they they did it on they thought I was gonna be, they thought they were gonna find out more information. And I mean some of the information might be in that packet that my dad handed me. I don't know, but did I I I didn't get anything out of it. I hated it. I I I was with like a bunch of kids younger than me, and it was kind of like the jail setup, except like not as jail y always supervised, had to like earn points, then you can like buy like stickers or some bullshit. But that that really affected me. I was yeah, junior year high school.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

So when you said like you weren't gonna kill the dog, but you had the scissors, is like you wanted some kind of response or reaction from your mom, probably, or were you acting out a lot in that way of like looking back in hindsight, like you just wanted to be seen, you wanted to be acknowledged. I mean, knowing that your mom had left you and you didn't know how to deal with that. And then with your dad, it's like somebody just tell me that I'm here living in this human body, which is painful, for a fucking reason. Somebody just prove that to me. That's all we want.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

I'd say like a part of it's not my mom's fault because I didn't like to always talk about what I had going on, and she's a nurse, I shall say, and uh she always wanted to help, and she's a very people person, a very helpful person. I like to be alone and I don't like I like knowing that I've done everything on my own. I'm like that kind of person. So I sometimes I do hide stuff, and so when I would act out because I'm bottling up so much of this stuff that nobody else knows, and then boom, the match gets lit, and they have no idea why I I am that that ramped up and and and uh acted that way. So it I'm sure it was hard for her, and I'm sure she knows now.

Staying Sober With Triggers And Freedom

SPEAKER_00 38:57

But out of all the people who want to quit drinking and can't, why were you able to? How were you able to?

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I was like, well, who's gonna do it?

SPEAKER_04 39:15

I need to do it, otherwise I'm gonna wreck my truck or I'm I'm gonna hurt someone or something bad's gonna happen. And I I want so much for myself that I refuse to to let that happen. And and uh the the quitting part, uh the hard part about quitting is you're gonna see all the times that you've disappointed people. It's gonna come to to light all the times that you were a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

And that's just gonna make you want to drink more.

SPEAKER_04 39:48

Yeah, don't drink more. Just take it all in, it's fine, it sucks, but you did it, you have to sit with it. So just just take it in and and learn from it and and and keep going. Because it is an everyday battle. I want to drink. I like drinking. Drinking's fun. I like I like the taste of whiskey. So every day I gotta wake up and be like, I'm not drinking today.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah. It was just my one year mark last week, and it was the first time in a year that I was craving alcohol because I was like, I'm gonna celebrate. Yeah. I I I made it a another year. I've made it a year the year year before that, and then in between there, I was barely drinking. But it's like I don't even know the date. I just know, oh, this week I was in Iceland last year, so it was one of the days I don't even know the day.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

But how should I celebrate? Like, all I really want is a drink. And it wasn't bad cravings, but it's just like it's fun. Drinking is really fun.

SPEAKER_04 40:44

What do you do to to stop?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Um, this podcast helps so much. I mean, I can't I can't go out to a bar and drink right now, and like everybody'd be like, um, aren't you supposed to be silver?

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Um, and uh I guess I don't know. I just I have a good last story and I don't want to make a new one. Did you do any anything like physical to Yeah, I mean just and new hobbies in the the years of not drinking, there's just so many other things that I enjoy doing now. And I don't lay in bed all day anymore, hung over. And like I I really don't have an urge, besides for last week. I I don't really. Even when I'm out with friends now, it's it's not bad. I've I've found a way to just pretend. Like um Cody Cooper said on an episode that's coming out this week, but we'll be a couple weeks behind. It was like somebody told him the advice was just to watch the other drunk people and just try and imitate them. And so you do, you just kind of get loose and you're like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Yeah. So sometimes I'll have to leave because it gets too much.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

And and sometimes it's not even it's not even the people, it's uh ice being poured into into the to the ice keeper or uh a bottle hits the floor. That one really gets me now. Uh and uh because I I also used to bounce back in the day, so it's right back into thinking of of all those times. Um but the good thing is I can just leave wherever I am. I usually drive now. I I I'll drive wherever if I'm going out to to meet somebody, I'll I'll drive myself and when I want to leave, I leave. And I don't have to go anywhere I don't want to go.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

So Yeah, you're more in control now. So it sounds like accountability, like you really looked yourself in the mirror and knew what um you had been doing wasn't what you wanted to keep doing, and then um let yourself feel instead of coping with other things.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

Yeah. I like to go on drives too. I like to whether whether it be just for five minutes or whether it be for for an hour, just go and and watch the world pass by, kinda.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

It's like freedom. You have freedom to leave whenever you want now. You have freedom to drive, make those drives since you like driving. What else? Um how does freedom feel to you now compared to then?

SPEAKER_04 43:46

For a while it was it felt like I was like in a coffin already.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

It had its chains on you.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Yeah. And and now I I feel like I'm kind of thinking of a kill bill scene right now. But when Uma climbs out of the coffin finally and was like, well, I'm gonna go get those people.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Damn.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

And I'm not saying that there's people I'm gonna go get, but I'm saying I'm gonna I'm gonna go out and get life. Yeah, and and chase this this feeling and and this because you can you can have the adrenaline rushes and and all the and all the same amount of of joy that I got from drinking. You know? I can I can get that from simply driving and it's 7 30 and the sun sets at 7 41. I can get that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

It just takes a while to reset the system and get dopamine in new ways.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

Yeah, to to to relearn because you was it was so you were so used to getting it the same way all the time, the easy way. Just go to the liquor store, get a case of beer, you know. But now it's it's uh it's way better.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Is there anything you still miss about your old life? Was there a grieving process?

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Uh no.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

Uh I'd say the one thing I do miss was like kind of like recently, like because I only really tried turning my life around probably about like five years ago. Probably about five years ago. I was like, oh shit, this is I need to do something. This is not looking good.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

And what kind of things were happening, just like the run-ins with the police and drinking and driving too much.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Yeah, like court sucks. Like so long and drawn out, and then trying to work, and then trying to do Zoom and like just that, and then like getting set back because of that, because that costs money, and then I was just like, Well, if I quit drinking, there's I'm not gonna fight anyone. I'm too smart for that. I would never do that. I uh one you fight people, you just you get in trouble, and it's just not good, it doesn't lead to anything, it doesn't solve anything. But I love to do it when I was drinking.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yeah, I saw.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

So if uh so I had I just had to get that that had to to go because that wasn't that wasn't gonna get me anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:40

But what I do miss is because like I said in the song that Noah said that uh set it set a time and I showed up when I kind of decided like because I didn't know what path I wanted to do. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I kinda I I kinda quit drinking and then quit my job and then moved away and started a new job for way less. And I kind of was like, dude, did I just fuck everything up? Like, no, you got it. Just keep going, it's gonna, it's gonna work out, it's gonna work out, just keep going and and then you know get it get a new job, it's way better. And the not drinking, I don't have any speeding tickets, life's going good, it's feels like you're on a roll. So I'd say the part I missed though was when it sucked. Like in in a in a way.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

It was kind of it was kind of because it's a familiar feeling and it's a human experience, and so there's something about feeling miserable that feels comforting, isn't there?

SPEAKER_04 47:52

Yeah. And I had to like cut a lot of people off because it wasn't gonna get me where I wanted to go. And with that, when you when you don't hang out with anyone, who are you with? You're with yourself, and so I'm doing more solo stuff. The part that I remember the most was I was I was uh by myself working out of town, it was too far to drive back, and I bought a topper for my truck, and I uh put a bed back there and like kind of made it livable because I didn't want to live in a hotel. I wasn't gonna make anything, and and I remember it was like the first day that I was doing it, and got done with work and I drove to this public land and the wind was blowing, the sun was shining. And I just started tearing up. And I checked my phone, no one no one texted me, and check a little later, no one's called, like and I'm like, holy shit. Yeah, I mean, you you don't even I didn't even remember the last time I was home or or or or or who I had uh hung out with last, but I knew that I was working, I knew that it was something I had to do, but it sucked. I was by myself, it was lonely. I mean but the the part that's relatable is that because uh uh now I I am I'm home more, I I work more around home, I'm able to I I I have more stuff now, but I always go back to that when I didn't have that much, and last year I took a trip and like just slept in the backseat of my truck. You know, I mean I was so familiar with the truck, I'd already been living in it, and it it kind of brought me back to to see everything. I'd I mean I went all over the the lower half of the United States by myself for 30 days living in the backseat of my truck, and it kind of brought me back to when I first started doing what I wanted to do with my life.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

And uh must have been cool to see how far you've come since then. It's hard for us to take that time to look back and see.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

Yeah, it's it's come with so much pain and and uh and and losses, but it's also come with so much joy. And I've learned over the past five years so much about myself, so much of what I am capable of, and that's why it's important to keep going because this isn't as smart as as you'll get. You you can learn new things, you keep learning, you keep trying, you keep figuring out. It's like people want to give up because they they they think they're they're as smart as they are, and there's nothing left. Like you you have to drive down a different street. You never know. There there's probably more houses, right? So that's like that kind of thing. You gotta keep trying, you gotta keep going. You don't know as much as you think you know, and there's more time until there's not. So why not utilize it?

SPEAKER_00 51:23

That's good for me to hear right now because on Monday next week I'm supposed to start like taking this online class that a couple people here at work are already taking. It's like for it's really complicated and it's gonna be so hard. It's like math, and everybody that knows me knows I can't do math. I don't like math. I'm really really stressed, but you're right, like I I can keep learning. This can be a whole new thing. Like, this can be exciting in 60 days. Be a whole new person.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

Yeah. So you might not just learn math from it. You can learn a whole bunch about your yourself and and what you're good at and what you're not good at.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

And yeah. And if I if I do it, I will feel so good. That'll be yeah, that'll be good. Was there a time that you were close to that you've been close to failing in quitting, quitting in the last two years and four months?

SPEAKER_04 52:23

No. Just go, go, go, don't stop. Who cares? Fuck it, keep going, figure it out. I mean, sitting here crying about it, whining about it, you maybe you just wasted 10 minutes, figure it out. And and a lot of a lot of the stuff that that happens in my life is is is is mechanical stuff. So it's like working on my truck while I'm at work and and or like getting over getting done with a shift and my I have a flat tire, and then I gotta work right away in the morning. It's like stuff like that that uh would would like likely make me freak out. Like but other than that, it's just daily, daily not not drinking is is really my biggest obstacle.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

So what happens now when you get a flat tire like that? How do you react?

SPEAKER_04 53:15

I I I uh I'm able to to figure it out before I just freak out and maybe even wreck something else on the vehicle.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah, like you don't spiral anymore. No, I keep it contained and and figure it out, like because you've trained your brain to know that you are capable, like you're capable to quit drinking. Like even for people who don't have a problem with it but want to, like just think of all of that time it's wasting in your head of I should, I should quit drinking, I should like you're wasting time. Plus, if you do that hard thing, then you're gonna be able to like take a cold plunge, then you're gonna be able to do the next hard thing, and then everything, and then all of a sudden you're like the toughest bit you know.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

Yeah. I I just I'm a big advocate advocate for uh people who should do what they want. I'm I'm not anyone's boss, everyone can can do what they want, but man, not drinking has really helped. So I I advise it.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

So you had brought up to me that you have had an ego death, and for anybody who isn't familiar with that, an ego death is a complete loss of subjective self-identity. So it is a profound temporary psychological state involving the complete loss of subject self-identity. Said that. Um, a lot of people associate it with psychedelics, but that was not the case for you. How did this happen?

SPEAKER_04 54:49

I think it really goes back to when I had like first started construction and I was traveling a lot, and I had a girlfriend at the time, and uh we had uh made this plan that she'd come visit because I was working out of town and you know I got the hotel. I was sleeping in my truck at the time, but obviously I'm not gonna have that girlfriend sleep in the truck, so I bought a hotel and I was getting done with with work and I was building something in the yard and she had called me and pretty much broke up with me. And that was that night was probably one of my darkest nights in a very long time. I hadn't talked to my dad in a while, I hadn't talked to my mom in a while, hadn't talked to my sister in a while, hadn't talked to anybody in a while. And then by a while I mean months. No calls, no texts, just doing my own thing, trying to trying to make it and to have the one person that you were like, oh, like they they see me. Like they my my even my parents don't get to see me, and they see me and they know how really how hard I'm trying or how hard it is, and they're I'm because I mean I would stay over or something, and you know, you leave at 5 a.m. and and get done at 10 or something, and so it was like for the one person to just walk out like that, and I still to have this day since then, not a word. And and that night I I had uh just driven, I remember I couldn't find a spot to go. Every spot I went, there's and by spot I mean to to sleep for the night on like a piece of public land or somewhere and sleep in the back of my pickup, and and I remember it was just hard to to find a spot everywhere I went, someone something didn't feel right, people were driving by, and I mean every I'd I'd lay down and it was just hot and I was like, I mean, what am I doing? If if if if the girl doesn't even want me, like what am I what am I working for? Why am I working this hard? What what what did I do wrong? Where did I go wrong? Why why you know play the play the victim part and it was it was very very quiet and eerie and I couldn't I couldn't bring myself to to I kept asking questions, but they weren't like bad questions. It was uh like what are you good at? Nothing. You know, it was it just over over and over and over again in my head and and and kinda like we were talking about earlier or or later, I don't know when you're gonna add it or where you're gonna put it. But um like we were talking about before is I I uh a lot of South Worth, you know, I didn't I didn't I didn't see it, couldn't see it at that time. And I I didn't normally I'm pretty good at being like I know who I am, I'm I'm I'm I'm Sam, I can get over this. Then that day, I didn't know if I'm gonna make it to work the next day.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

I call that being in hell realm when you're like looping those thoughts. Sometimes catching it can get me out, but a lot of times it's it's more I have to go take a walk and take some breaths and it's hard where you're sobbing and you But when you're alone after being broke up with in the middle of some state land. Yeah. Where the stars out at least.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

That's what like made it real. What really brought you know, and and I always have a gun. And not saying I would I would, but like that's what made it real is there's no one around. No one I I felt like no one really cared. It wasn't really until like the next day when I drove into work. I mean that day sucked too, don't get me wrong, but I was like, I can okay, I can get out of this. There's there's light. I just had to make it to the next day. I just had to make it through this.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Did you sleep that night?

SPEAKER_04 59:57

Not very well. I wasn't sleeping all that well throughout those three months I was living in the truck.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

When you woke up, was it just like, okay, let's just go to work and see what happens one step at a time? Or how did you how did you make it?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

I remember waking up kind of groggy, and I was like, 'cause I didn't know what to think. And when you first wake up, you you know, you have a thought, and and I was kind of like groggy. I was waking up in the back of the pickup, like, and I I remember my my my first thought was I gotta go to work. And then my second thought was what about that girl? But then my third thought was that doesn't matter, you have to go to work.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

So And it's like what about the girls that you go talking? Yeah. And it doesn't matter I have to go to work is your soul.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:53

It's done, it's over with. Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Because quitting's not an option.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

So then what what about the next day?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:10

I worked. Super heartbroken. But the good thing about that news is it couldn't get worse. You know, it it it's already it was what it was. And it's not like as the days kept adding up after that that it the news could get any worse. So I was like, okay, good, you got you got it all in one. It's right there. Big letters, it's over. You know, so that was kind of the mindset of it was that it it it doesn't matter, it's it's it's it's done now. Go keep on keep on figuring it out. It sucks though, because I wanted I wanted I wanted it to work, but that's just life. And sometimes it just doesn't always work. But that doesn't mean that life stops. It's all it's all about staying in motion because if if if you stop, someone else is still going. And that's indefinitely as far as we know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

So that whole situation gave you an ego shift afterwards that you can remember?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:33

The the light that I needed. It was it was the information I needed to hear, it was the sadness I needed to feel, it was the pain that I needed to feel and and see. And really I don't think without that, what one probably wouldn't have made me quit drinking. I think that played a part in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Yeah, because where was this in your sobriety journey?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:00

I had not quit drinking yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Yeah, but feeling your feelings that night was what enabled you to later feel your feelings, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:09

Yeah. And I mean, I always try to to to not show that I'm upset or sad. And I try to mask it with with drinking, and that night, yeah, I think I had a few and woke up groggy and and really was like really helped me feel any better. In fact, I feel way worse. I think I had a couple too many. I gotta stop. You know, and and then maybe her breaking up with me was she had thoughts uh on my on my drinking, you know, so that's it's all it's all there.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Maybe she didn't even exist, she was just an angel showing up in your life. I think about that. Help you through this experience.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

I think about that a lot of of stuff that I see in life. I'm like, was that real? Did that happen? Was that person real? I didn't shake their hand, but I mean, how do I know? Stuff like that. And there's there's people that were in my life for a long time that are not my life anymore. That I'm for sure sad about, but also very grateful because it's like there's a reason they're not in my life anymore. Whether that reason be they drank too much, they called it quits, or they they they couldn't made it make it, or um they weren't good for me, but each each one there's a there's a reason that they're not they don't they don't sit next to me anymore, and it's really helpful. I think everyone in my life right now I need. Everyone that's not in my life right now, I don't need. And it doesn't mean that I might not need them later, but right now, don't need.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

So what do you think life wants out of you?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:18

That's a tough question. I think what it thought before was it wanted me to just try harder than I was. Not too sure, like the end game. You know, I'm still sort of young. I know what I kinda wanna do. But I just I just know that it's for sure a lot happier with how things are going. I wanna one day be able to help people. So if I have to, you know, and keep working at at this and and uh and what and what I do and and and kind of reach that financial freedom that I can do something like this or or uh go talk or what you said earlier was it was a good idea because I don't think that's touched on enough. Have you always had a sense of that wanting to help people I think I think I think it's it's always been there, but I think it it comes and goes and it the reason it would it would it would go is probably based on on like humanity and stuff and and that kind of plays a part in it kind of losing the the faith there and then that the trust issues and stuff and then kind of figuring out my my own self before I can kind of give myself to others again.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Well it's a lot of like who am I to be able to help people, so then when you tell yourself that, then it can be a lot of coping with alcohol and other things to dull that want to help.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:13

Yeah. I think I used to think like like I uh I used to think so little of myself, you know, and and not that I think like I'm a superhero now, but I think every if people want to listen, they'll listen. If they if they don't, they don't have to. But if I don't say anything, there's no chance.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

And I think one of the purposes of life is service, and I think we all have something that can help people. It's all different. Everybody has things that can help me, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

One of my closer friends just recently died, like February 1st. Super tragic ski accident. And it's really opened my eyes as to how life can so easily be be taken in a in a second. And yeah, this winter sucked. Really did. I mean I moved houses and and uh then I found out my friend dies and I'm not working, and and I uh for a second there I almost let myself go, but I was able to catch myself and and I uh you got you gotta you gotta get up and you gotta get out of that. Otherwise it it'll it'll consume you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

What would have been the go-to thing? Are you talking drinking? Are you talking like you were having ideations about suicide?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

Probably both. Kept looking at a picture of me and him, and I'm like, huh, it's so weird, because other people are posting pictures of themselves. I never thought, damn, what if they're next? I only thought, damn, what if I'm next? Which is weird. I mean I kept looking at the picture of me and him, and it's only well one, it's at a bar. Two, it's it's there's drinks I was drinking at that time. But like when other people would post pictures, I I swear I would I would never be like, oh, what if they're next? But every time I look at the picture of me and him, it's like, damn, what if I'm next? So therefore, I just have to make sure I'm not, really, is what it comes down to. And and I I might fail. Freak accident, you never know. But like to the best of my ability, I'm gonna make sure that it's not it's not me. And I want people to like when we were talking about like what I want to help people, I want people to to realize how important it is to actually be present. Actually be aware, actually know what's going on, and and uh you know check check in on your family and your friends and and but like be present because it next thing you know 88 years old, time's up. Or next thing you know you're 25, time's up. Thing is, you don't know, but you gotta I mean at least be trying to live life to the fullest and and move carefully and and try not to get hurt and uh make sure I mean it could be as simple as making sure you're all your lug nuts are on your on your on your wheel tight enough. Small things like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

This morning the trees were so pretty, I tried to look at them in the way of what if this was the last time I got to look at the trees. Because reading this book, The Art of Contemplation, um, they talked about that as a way to contemplate, and it seems really morbid. But your walk to work, your drive to work, your lunch, you know, if you practice pretending like it's the last time you'll ever do that, it can excel your spiritual growth and help you live in the presence more, present more.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:04

Was there a good uh sunrise this morning? I wasn't up.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

It wasn't quite the sunrise, it was just the sun on the trees. Yeah. The sun was out, it's not out every day.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

Were you behind the trees? Were you looking at the sun?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:19

Not really.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:20

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

The trees just by themselves just looked kind of pretty.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:23

Were you standing outside or inside?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

Inside. In bed, looking out the window. Yeah. Yeah. Are you spiritual? Are you religious? What do you believe? Why do you believe we're on this planet? Who sent us here? Are you an alien?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:39

Oh wow. Okay.

unknown 1:12:42

Sure, I want to know you're not one.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:44

I am not an alien. Thank you. To the best of my knowledge. But it's funny you asked that, because I used to believe I was on here for no apparent good reason. And then as the years have gone by whether this is the true reason I'm here or not, but I I really think one that working on the highway has saved me. Being away, working long hours, uh, being out there every day. I get to smile. I I feel free. There's a love of freedom that comes with it. You know, when you're out there, it's the I work during the summer, the nicest time to work. The trees, the breeze, the air, the smells, the even even when it rains, I'm I'm thankful for for the rain. It hasn't, you know, small things like that. Um the seasons, I mean, starting the spring and and then the fall, uh fall colors, lakes. Sometimes when I'm out there, I get to bring up my boat and and I get to get out on a Sunday and and go hunt or stuff like that. But the since starting paving, I've had like the biggest smile. And I think that's I mean it's what I want to do right now, and I think that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm good at it. It's it's needed. It's big infrastructure and and uh helping the community in in that way. You know, I feel like I I'm I'm out there doing something. Before I didn't think I was doing anything. This feels like I'm doing it, because with it comes the okay, I get to, I get to I get to drive on this, people drive on this, I get to you get to see it, you get to be proud of it. It's physical. Uh I can I I can remember each highway, each interstate that I I've worked on. I've I can I can talk about it, I can be proud about it, it can keep going. And the biggest thing is nobody can take it away from me. That's and that comes with with even a little bit of the adoption thing. Like my mom wasn't there. It felt like she was taken away. But like this, I no one I did it, no one can take it from me, you know, and that's the whole thing is to keep going and keep trying, and and they'll you'll get to a point where you're like, okay, I have too much to lose now. Something's gotta go, whether it be someone who's no good for me telling me bad decisions, or it's myself letting myself do something I shouldn't be doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

So and no one can take it away from you, but what you're really enjoying is the feeling of that. Yeah, so now that you know that that feeling is inside of you, you can use that in any circumstance. Like I just read this book and I can feel proud over that, and nobody can take that feeling from me.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:16

That's your feeling, you own it, and all the information you acquired from that, and all the information I learned every day. And I just want to keep learning, I want to keep uh keep growing it and keep being the best version of myself. And I think the only way I can do that is to keep that the alcohol away and the substance abuse away, and is to just keep going down the path that I'm on right now.

Being Seen, Faith, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

Love it. Now we're on to the segment where I reveal to you how people see you. Last week I asked you to give me the names and phone numbers of people I could reach out to that know you well, and so I contacted them and asked them to describe you with some adjectives, and then I put those words in the themes because I just think we're really bad at seeing ourselves how those are on the see us. So not surprising your first word has already been a big theme. Um I'm sure everybody watching can tell this about you that you are tenacious, to a said strong, to a said hardworking, to a said stubborn, dedicated, athletic, resilient, hard-headed, argumentative, lethal, and tactical. So yeah, you're driven like we talked about. And your second word is compassionate. They said caring, loving, sensitive, generous, humble, gracious, loyal, open-minded, supportive, and kind. And your third word is magnetic, because you're charismatic, vibrant, witty, and hilarious. And I'm just gonna read a whole thing that somebody sent. He said, Sam is constantly thinking about others. He's one of the most fun and silly humans I know. He's strong and beautiful, both of those things inside and out. All he wants to do is give love and have it be reciprocated the same way in return. He's self-aware and knows how to give himself grace in his darkest days. He always has your back, that's for sure. I love him so much. He's been one of my best friends and will be for the rest of my life. And your synopsis is you weren't built for easy, and easy was never what you wanted. Unfiltered and always yourself. You make people laugh without trying and feel loved without asking. Sam, you're a lot, and that's exactly why people love you. How does that make you feel?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:01

Really good. Because I didn't I didn't used to think that way ever. You used to, I mean, it was super dark for years and years and years on end, and it didn't get light until probably 2022, 2023. So and I've never been one to really all that much care what other people thought, but there's a little bit that that really does, because it's important, and I and it's important to me. It's important to me to carry myself a certain way and to to do certain things and to not do certain things. So and all I I I ever really want to know from like people's outside perspective is that yeah, I I'm doing good, not for them, but like for myself, because there was a time that I was not doing any good to anybody. So the the basically the only feedback I really do look for is is is am I am I doing good? Because I need to know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

Well, we are tribal creatures, and that part is still in our brains because if we don't strive to be likable in some way or another, then we're just gonna be assholes and not be part of a tribe and go off and you know, isolate and be alone. And evolution doesn't want that for us. So please remember you are not these words. You are not your thoughts. You are the space between the words, the space between the thoughts. You are the one who knows you have thoughts, observe them, reflect on them, but no you are not them. Do you think you would adopt someday?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:03

Yeah, I I have it's definitely a thought that's crossed my mind. I've always I grew up hunting with my dad, so I've always wanted to teach someone like he taught me. Because I believe those are very the very neat skills you need to to survive and to I mean man man has always hunted. It's always it's always been like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:30

The apocalypse can happen anytime.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:32

Trust me, I know. But I would I would I would like to teach whether it be my son or my daughter one day to to hunt. It's hard to say when that day is. I think my sister's probably closer than me. I got a long list of stuff that I want to get done that would be hindered by by that, but it's for sure like something I want uh for sure. Uh it's the American dream. It's the I want a family, I want a house on many acres and wraparound porch, field looking west, watch sunsets and stuff like that. And but right now, I mean I got time, 27. I got time.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:24

Plenty of time. Okay, well, uh, if you have kids and they're four grandkids, what is something that you do right now that you hope they do when they're your age, when they're 27, your grandchildren.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:40

I'd probably want them to I'd probably tell them to just make sure that they have faith in themselves. I'd I'd say that's the most important. Because without having that faith that you can that you can do it it's it's hard to find it. You know, it's hard it's it's but it it's it's what you have to do. It's everyone's own thing. So I'd probably tell them to always make sure you have faith. Because I didn't have faith for a long time. I didn't have faith in any higher power or didn't have faith in in myself even. I mean basic, like I can get up and and and you know get to work, but like over can you do it over and over again? Can I keep getting up? Can I keep trying when I get knocked down and when it gets so dark and so hard, it's it wasn't until those times that we talked about that you that I really found like faith in my in myself. And that and then having faith in myself helped me find faith in something else in a way bigger picture. But it star it started with I just needed to believe that I could do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:05

Bigger do you feel like that ego death helped you feel connected?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:12

Yes. Yeah, there's signs and and and and synchronicities. Yeah. It's a lot of stuff started to really add up and then you kind of figure it out It's almost like going before someone and they replay very hard, sad, dark, even angry times. And you can it's like you it's like a screen right in front of you, and it doesn't matter where you are or who you're with, it can it'll play and and you'll see things that you're not proud of. But it made me believe in myself because I was like, that's not me. I don't I would never I gotta I gotta be better than that. I gotta for myself first. But then yeah, following myself on a family for my family, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:34

So I can't walk you up.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:37

Yeah, it was a big wake-up call. And I believe that once you start quitting, it's hard to to stop quitting. Once you start not caring, and and it just gets worse. Then you're slacking off at work, and then you're getting fired, and then you're losing the house, and you lose the vehicles, and then then that I feel like that a lot of times that's when people really are like, I got nothing. But just little do they know. It started with them because you didn't you didn't have to let it get that far.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:15

Yeah. When you asked earlier what keeps me from drinking, I mean it's not just this podcast, the conversations help so much, but there's so much space now of like it's just comical to think that I would want to go back to that life. And two Christmases ago when I did have a step of some homemade Baileys, because somebody makes you some homemade baileys for Christmas, like you get pumped about it. Hadn't drank since the first Vikings game, the first Vikings game eve. So that had been quite a few months, and I took one step and felt it in my body and felt I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:52

Yeah, it didn't feel like gross, like Yeah, it felt like it shouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

Uh-huh. Felt foreign, and I was like, I can't believe that I used to love this feeling. And I still proceeded to drink a few more times after that, but that was about three months before my before I went. I've made it this one year now. Um but yeah, it it's comical to think that I would want to go back to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:24

Some homemade Baileys does sound pretty good. I've turned on some homemade uh moonshine because I was just like, you've no idea what could happen. The person that I was with giving it to me. And then two, I know what has happened, and I know what's happened when you there's no idea of myself knowing what's happening. I'm just not willing to to to risk that. And Oh, I think people that are trying to not drink or or are trying to to quit something, it's it's not gonna be easy. And I don't think it gets easier as the days go on. I think it gets absolutely harder because, you know, day one, oh easy. I got this. Two. Oh, that's harder. Three, four, you know, and and and the further away you get from that day one, the more important it is. So the the the the harsher the reality of the of the relapse if you if you were, you know, like I don't rather relapse day two than day five hundred and twenty-five. You know. And I'm not even saying that I I will never drink again. I have a goal in my head that I I will not share of when I will be able to drink again. So you'll know i if I reach that, but until then I it's just not a good deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:13

And what do you do right now that you hope your grandkids don't do when they're your age? What advices do you still have?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:30

I still sleep a lot when I get like super depressed.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:33

That's what I need to get rid of. I used to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:35

So you don't want to get rid of your depression, you just want to get rid of the sleep that comes with the depression.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:40

I don't think you can get rid of the depression. I think it's I think it's all it it c it you could make it leave. I think it I think it'll come back. Something else will happen in your life that will make you think about that certain time or make you sad. I mean, depression is just a bigger word for sadness, right? Sad feeling. You're upset.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:03

I guess I just associate depression with like a lingering and sadness is like those clouds. Yeah. So the c the sky is your emotions. I feel like depression is a gray dark area over the entire sky where sadness is clouds. But I don't believe that depression has to be there forever. I hope it doesn't have to for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:31

No. I mean, I don't want it to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:34

I guess I'm not trying to say it would be there forever, but I think I think in order to keep it away, it's I gotta So like okay, when it's there, don't lay around and sleep, get up and move.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:50

Because that's why it keeps the gray away 100%. And not that exercise can solve all the problems. No. But it's the easiest, cheapest, freest thing to do to start.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:06

Just staying busy. Uh I would tell my my grandkids or or anyone or yeah, anyone that's trying to to change their life is one find a hobby.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:17

Stay busy but present.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:19

Yes. Stay busy, stay present, stay aware. Um I find that like when I'm doing something, I have I've I I it's just so much more rewarding. It's so whether it's physic even I I read a lot, I do stuff like that, and like try and I like facts and knowing knowing topics when I'm talking about them and stuff. So even if it's something like that, go to the library, go outside, uh hop in a hammock. Summer's coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:52

Watch the clouds go by. I'm so excited. So excited to be in the hammock and watch the clouds.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:58

I get to I get to see them where there's no trees and that's like my favorite. Especially like in the morning. The crickets are gone, frogs are gone sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:17

Do you have like a drink that you drink instead of alcohol? Like a substitute?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:22

Lots of soda water. Sometimes I put basil leaves or um mint in, and that helps make it feel fun. Um I have some non-alcoholic wines.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:33

Um how do you like those?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:35

They're not very good. No, it's kind of they don't taste very good, but um once in a while they're okay. Um but yeah, there's so many restaurants now doing fun NA drinks. The Fort in Rush City has usually a monthly new um whole special list of non-alcoholic drinks, and some of them will smoke or have rosemary or you know, the fun thing. So then you don't have to feel like you're missing out on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:07

I I drink a lot of tea now. Yes, chai tea, uh green tea. I've I've found that I've uh been more healthy with the the quitting. Because when you quit, uh drinking makes you bloated, and so you lose a lot of that, you can see it. You know, I used to look in the mirror and not even like recognize who I was, you know, and then I'd be like, oh, I just gotta go on with my day.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:34

I know I look like shit, but I'm just gonna keep and then until one day I was like, I can't keep looking for this when I know up here that's not what I want. But when I look and when I look and see what what I am right now, it it's not where I want to be. And so that's really where you gotta draw the line. I told myself I can get like unlimited tea instead of drinking. So I just whenever I feel like I'm drinking, I want to drink or something, I'll just go to Starbucks or go grab something, and and along with that is the ride there. Like I said, I go for a drive, you know, then it can either continue or go back, do something. You just gotta keep yourself busy and be open yourself up to seeing more positive stuff, more positive thoughts, more, more, uh, more positivity.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:29

I think YT is great to open you up to those things, is because it is very subtle flavors. It's warm, it like slows you down, it brings you to the moment, and then those subtle flavors open your eyes to the other subtle things around you. I just heard in a book by Michael Singer, um, the untethered um untethered something, and he talks about how like any snapshot, like any second, any millisecond of what you see at any given point during the day. Imagine if the finest painter in the world called you and asked you to describe that scene. So this scene right now that we're seeing, or a scene outside, or anywhere in your house. How long would it take you to describe to the finest painter in the world every detail about what you're seeing? And imagine what has had to happen in the evolution of this planet to get to where we are right now, and we're walking around ungrateful, like, and taking advantage of all of these things we get to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:32

Like, yeah, that is that's a good point. I probably would mess up and and describe it as plain as possible, just so that he could get painting. I don't know if that makes any sense, but like that's just the way I would think about it. Obviously, you'd probably want the most detailed thing ever. And I I'm probably gonna start thinking about being more in detail and seeing things more in detail. I already see things in in great detail from being able to haunt and being in the woods since I was like eight and stuff like that, and knowing actually like being in tune with nature.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:21

Tapping into your senses, because they always say that when you're having a panic attack or anxiety, like name three things you can smell or you can touch, one thing you can smell, five things you can see, like you know, it's it's tapping into the senses that brings your anxiety down. And so imagine you're not having anxiety and you do that. Where's that gonna get you?

Comedy Plans And Goodbye

SPEAKER_04 1:36:42

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:43

Okay, so are we going to go to Austin sometime and sign up for Kill Tony?

SPEAKER_04 1:36:49

Yeah, I should be like, still watching a lot? I mean, kind of like picking like episodes from way back that I like, and I don't know, I bought myself a new TV, so that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:02

Yeah, still it's been it's what I've been watching right before I go to sleep at night just for like 15, 20 minutes, just like get those laughs in. I just think it's the most unique, fun, new art.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:17

I like seeing how witty people are, and like along with music, like I'm a big lyrical guy. Uh not so much the the um the acoustics getting. You're more lyrics, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:34

I'm opposite.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:36

You like the the the tune and I rarely even know what the lyrics are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:41

And I and I don't like that. I wish I was a better listener.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:46

Like completely?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:47

No. But I sh unless I'm doing drugs. But I should. I should more.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:54

You said unless you're doing drugs.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:55

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:56

Drugs.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:58

Um, but yeah, Kill Tony, it's so inspirational, like going to sleep when you're seeing people like go up there on stage, like so scared most of the time, and just putting themselves out there like that. Yeah. Maybe that's why I like to watch it right before bed because it's so brave.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:15

It's uplifting as well. A lot of it's really uplifting. Um, even when like it can be like someone does bad, or it's like like a little negative, it's it's still super.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:27

Tony's still really kind to them unless they're trying to like support their own thing or they're just being ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:34

Then he can get too mean and he can get ruthless, but yeah, most of the time he's just like, Yeah, okay, well, you didn't do good, but I like the art of comedy in a way that no matter what, it's just a joke, you know. It's you know, like you can get deep and dark, it but it's still just a joke. And I wish I would have seen it a lot earlier or known about it a lot earlier, because I think it would have helped me more, you know, because even if you can just like hear someone else's joke, and then it brings you to a premise, and then you maybe think of your own joke in your head. I mean, I when I'm driving, I think of jokes all the time, whether they're stupid or not.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:18

I are you writing them down? No, you gotta write them down because we're gonna go. We're gonna go to Kiltoni and sign up.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:24

Let's do it. I mean, Austin's one of my favorite cities, and seriously, mine too. We should go, what, next winter?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:31

Or just coming winter.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:33

Winter.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:33

Yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:35

Definitely. All right. Come back on the pod soon, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:39

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:41

Yeah, this was great.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:42

Thanks for opening up. You were supposed to be one of my first guests.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:45

Was I?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:46

Yeah, remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:47

Did I get busy?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:48

I don't know. You you just kinda did your own thing for a while and then finally hit me up again a month ago. And I didn't want to ask you.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:57

Also, I don't want to be done there. I didn't I didn't want to ask you.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:00

What? I had asked you like 10 times.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:02

I know, but like I didn't want to I still feel weird and I still feel like I kind of like for everybody who says that to me, they're like, I don't want to ask.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:08

I'm like, I have asked you many times, or even if I haven't asked, I don't want to put that pressure on people. I hate rejection, so I absolutely hate asking people things. Like K Joe's always like, why didn't you invite me? I'm like, because you've said no to the last three weekends. I don't like rejection. I give up.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:25

Yeah, I'm just I'm just happy I made it because I've been I've been in a real flaky mood and not show I mean it's really bad and it's not good. And it's luckily it's nothing important, you know. It's not like I'm skipping work or anything, but like uh I've been real flaky, so like I'm just glad that I was able to do it and and show you the respect and come here and and I've been a big fan of you and and uh uh I love your family very much and and you guys are really good for this town, have been forever, so I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:58

Thank you. Thank you so much.