Nourished with Dr. Anikó

24. How to Nourish Your Family with a Joyful and Sustainable Plant-Based Diet with Dr. Reshma Shah

• Dr. Anikó • Season 1 • Episode 24

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In this inspiring episode of Nourished with Dr. Anikó, host Dr. Anikó Gréger welcomes Dr. Reshma Shah, pediatrician, parent coach, and award-winning co-author of Nourish: The Definitive Plant-Based Nutrition Guide for Families. Together, they explore what it truly means to feed your family in a way that supports both health and happiness without rigidity, guilt, or overwhelm.

Dr. Shah shares her personal and professional journey from a traditional vegetarian upbringing to becoming a leading voice in plant-based nutrition, family wellness, and climate-informed pediatrics. She offers practical, compassionate guidance for families who are plant-curious and want to make more sustainable choices while still keeping mealtime joyful, flexible, and nourishing for everyone.

Learn how to start simple, overcome picky eating, and make plant-based meals that meet your family’s nutritional needs. From understanding key nutrients like vitamin B12, calcium, and protein, to embracing family dinners as a time for connection and cultural tradition. This episode offers a blend of science, emotional intelligence, and real-life strategies every parent can use.

Episode Highlights:

4:00 Dr. Shah’s journey from a vegetarian upbringing to discovering the power of plant-based nutrition as a mother and physician.

7:00 How plant-based diets support health, the planet, and compassion understanding the holistic benefits for families.

10:00 Key nutrients for kids: how to ensure proper B12, calcium, and iron intake on a plant-based diet.

15:00 Fiber and digestion: why most children need more plants, and tips for making beans easier to tolerate.

25:00 Creating family mealtime harmony: Dr. Shah’s story of shifting from multiple meals to one nourishing family table.

35:00 How food impacts the planet and the connection between diet, sustainability, and children’s long-term health.

43:00 First steps for plant-curious families and how to make plant-based eating simple, flexible, and joyful.

About Dr. Reshma Shah (Reshma Shah, MD MPH): Dr. Reshma Shah is a board certified pediatrician, award-winning author, mother, and passionate home-cook. Through her private coaching practice, she helps families find confidence and joy in feeding their children with compassion, evidence-based nutrition, and cultural awareness.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reshmashah
Parent Coaching: https://www.reshmashahmdparentcoaching.com/

Book: Nourish: The Definitive Plant-Based Nutrition Guide for Families by Reshma Shah, MD, MPH: https://a.co/d/d36IMMT

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Connect with Dr. Anikó:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.aniko/

Website: https://www.draniko.com/

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Disclaimer:
The content of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not substitute for professional medical advice. Always seek the guidance of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding your health or a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of something you heard on this podcast.

Dr. Anikó: [00:00:00] Hi, you are listening to Nourished with Dr. Ani Kreer. This podcast is all about the many, many ways you can support your health and your family's health. I'm an integrative physician and I am so passionate about helping people find their pathway to their very best life. I hope you enjoy. Hello? Hello, y'all, and welcome back.

To another episode of Nourished with Dr. Aniko. Today is a really special day because I have a wonderful guest. Dr. Rema Shaw is here with me. Rema Shaw is a pediatrician and parent coach and the award-winning author of Nourish the Definitive Plant-Based Nutrition Guide for Families. As a contributing author to the American Academy of Pediatrics Pediatric Nutrition textbook and co-director of the Learning Center at Plant-Based Juniors, she develops [00:01:00] evidence-based nutrition curricula for both healthcare professionals and parents.

She previously served as an affiliate clinical instructor at Stanford University School of Medicine and is currently an adjunct lecturer at Stanford University Department of Pediatrics. Through her parent coaching practice, Dr. Shaw guides families through general parenting challenges. New medical diagnoses, feeding concerns, and plant-based nutrition with empathy and expertise.

She has a degree in medicine, a master's in public health, and she is certified in plant-based professional cooking, and she is a fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Welcome, Dr. Shaw. Thanks so much for having me. It's so great to have you here. So I wanted to share with everybody this sort of sweet story of how this even came to be, which is that I told Dr.

Kathy Kemper, who is like the mother of holistic pediatrics, she wrote a book called Holistic Pediatrics, and I was telling her about my [00:02:00] podcast and it was called Nourished. And she was like, huh, you might wanna get in touch with Dr. Reish Michelle, because she wrote a book called Nourish. And I was like, yeah, that seems like we'd have a lot to talk about.

And then we did talk and we did have a lot to talk about. And in classic New Orleans fashion, we even had like friends in common because New Orleans is that town where if you know anybody here and you say, Hey, do you know my friend like Joe, I will like almost a hundred percent know Joe. So that was really exciting.

And then. When I was preparing to talk to you, I realized that I had attended a lecture of yours that you had done at Stanford, which was on plant-based nutrition. Not just from the perspective of how good it is for our bodies and our families, but also how good it is for the planet. It was the first time I had heard the term climate informed or climate change informed pediatrics or primary care, and I hadn't really known or even considered before that how much families actually value getting climate change counseling and that kind of information from their doctors [00:03:00] and particularly their pediatricians.

And my listeners know that I love evidence. So there actually are studies showing this that people do appreciate and want climate change counseling provided by their pediatricians in particular for so many reasons. Now, there are so many people that are getting like plant curious, which is a term that I heard from you and I love it, and we will get to that.

But first I wanted to hear about your journey into the world of plant-based eating and nutrition, because obviously you wrote this beautiful book, nourish and truly it's nuance. There's parts about picky eating, there's parts about disordered eating. There's a lot of emphasis on the joy of eating and the coming together around eating and the cultural practices around eating.

And you write textbooks and you create curricula. You speak on this, you offer coaching on this. So it seems to have really spoken to you in a really deep way, and I'd really love to hear more about how that came to be. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me on, and I feel like we're old friends after having only spoken for a little bit.

And maybe [00:04:00] I'll just start with the name of the book and the name of your podcast, which is, I think that Nourish really encompasses. So many aspects of the conversations that we're trying to have. It's about, you know, nourishing our bodies in terms of eating a diet that's gonna promote health, but it's also about nourishing our families, our communities, and our global population.

And it's a very full encompassing, holistic kind of an approach to feeding. And the way it sort of all began for me is, you know, I actually grew up in a vegetarian household. It was a cultural practice. My parents, my family's Indian, and so. I grew up on a vegetarian diet, but I also grew up in the suburbs of Pittsburgh.

And more than anything, I just kind of wanted to fit in like all the other kids. And I remember vividly, it's embarrassing now, but my mom would make these like homemade meals from scratch with doll and vegetables and all these things. And I just wondered, why couldn't we just have like meatloaf, like all the other families?

Because as a kid you wanna fit in. And so, you know, through my adolescence and early adulthood, I did not follow a vegetarian [00:05:00] diet. I eat a, what I would call a healthy-ish omnivorous diet. You know, as healthy a diet can be when you're going through medical school and residency training and all the things.

And it's really when I began to have kids of my own that I started to think a little bit more deeply about what are my priorities around food? How am I gonna feed my family? I think for many of us as pediatricians and as parents, you know, we'll sort of do a quick grab and go for ourselves. But when it comes to feeding our kids, we wanna put a little bit more intention and a little bit more thought and.

When I went through my medical education and residency training, I received very little, if any, education about nutrition and the types of education that I received around nutrition, focused on how to feed extremely premature babies through IV nutrition. I wasn't really learning about how to cook for your family and what really constitutes a healthy diet, not just in childhood, but throughout life.

And so I started to sort of do my own independent learning. I became what I called a professional conference goer. I went to a lot of conferences and [00:06:00] just tried to learn as much as I could and. What I landed on was that the most health promoting diets in research studies, in epidemiological studies, uh, in population studies is really a diet that is plant focused or plant centered.

Now, it certainly doesn't have to be plant exclusive or vegan, and I'm sure we'll talk about some of those differences, but really a diet that emphasizes whole plant foods, so things like vegetables, fruits, whole grains, beans, not seeds. That should be the foundation of a health. Promoting diet for ourselves, for our children, for our families, for our communities.

And that's kind of where I started. And when I learned about this, I was very keen on making some changes in my own household. And then I was really interested in sort of taking some of this information into my exam rooms and talking to my patients and families about it. And I realized that with 15 minute office visits, we need to make the message as simple as possible, as accessible as possible, and really sort of personalizing it to what's available to families, what they can afford, what their schedules allow for.

And I've been on a mission to [00:07:00] sort of like cook more, learn more about that process so that you're combining the evidence with a practical day-to-day struggles that a lot of families face. And then, you know, once I got a little bit more comfortable with the health aspects, I'm like, I think I've got this.

Then I saw the connection between our food choices and climate change, and it was like my mind was blown. I'd never really even connected the two for myself and. It was really beautiful because what I realized was that the same diet that could promote health was also gonna be a much more sustainable climate friendly diet.

And so then I focused in even a little bit more. And then the last piece for me was really looking at the animal welfare aspects and. It was very quickly after that that I went to a fully plant-based diet because I think for people who have adequate access to food, have the resources and the time, it's a wonderful option to consider because it extends compassion, not just, you know, at our dinner tables, but beyond it.

And [00:08:00] my mission has really been to provide evidence-based guidance to support families to, I love that term, plant curious because I think vegan or vegetarian can feel daunting and overwhelming. And so I heard this at one of the conferences I went to, which was this idea of making the tent as big as possible.

And I think that's my mission, to make the tent as big as possible. So if you're plant curious, come on in and we can go from there. 

Dr. Anikó: That's really beautiful. I think, 'cause one of the obstacles sometimes is this perception that you have to do it this one way and that if you don't, there's gonna be like a million judging eyes being on like I think that was honey in your smoothie or whatever.

And to expand that mindset of like what this can look like in your life, in your family's life. And it doesn't have to look like it does in your life or my life or somebody else's life, and I can't speak for you, but I actually know this to be true for you as well. When I have plant curious families in my practice, [00:09:00] one of the biggest worries I find is that people are really worried that they cannot give their kids enough nutrition from a diet that is just plant-based.

And so I was curious to hear your thoughts about that. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah, I think the clickbait headlines grab a lot of attention. So it's really easy for us to operate at extremes that you must be exclusively plant-based in order to redeem the health benefits, the climate benefits, all the things, or that there is no way that a plant exclusive diet can meet the nutritional needs of people, especially growing children.

And the truth is much more nuanced, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. So what I say is, is that you can absolutely meet your nutritional needs, even for kids with a well-planned, plant-based diet. Also, you don't have to be a hundred percent plant exclusive in order to have the benefits. And so I've had a lot of families say to me, oh, I could be plant-based except for I love salmon, or I love cheese pizza.

I whatever. Fill in the blank. I could be plant-based [00:10:00] except for, and I was like, great, be plant-based except for the thing that's hard for you. So I think it's really about meeting people where they are and then. Answering their specific nutritional concerns. 'cause I'm sure as a pediatrician you can relate.

I've seen a lot of kids with nutrient deficiencies. I've treated kids for iron deficiency anemia. I've treated kids for rickets due to vitamin D deficiency. I've treated kids for not at having adequate growth because of insufficient caloric intake. All of those patients were eating an omnivorous diet.

So you can absolutely, you have to be paying attention to specific nutrients and make sure you're getting adequate intakes. And I'm sure you know, we can talk about some of those nutrients, but it's true for all diets. All of our diets should be well planned. So if you wanna eat a vegan diet, you can absolutely do it in a way that can meet your nutritional needs.

And if you're not ready to fully go plant-based, you can still eat a healthy diet. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. Well, and if anything, when we see research coming out over, you know, about our communities and what we're lacking, what seems to come up over and over again is our lack of fruits and vegetables [00:11:00] and nutrients and plant-based content.

Not that we're not eating enough animal-based foods. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah. And there's a, it's a well repeated statistic that like over 90% of people in the United States are meeting their protein intakes. And less than 5% of people in the United States, including children, are meeting the recommended intake for fiber. And fiber only comes from plant sources of food.

So I think that yes, we need to pay attention to protein and calcium and vitamin D and all those other nutrients, but fiber is something you're only gonna get from plants. So even if you're not interested in being vegan or vegetarian, if you're increasing the number of plant foods that you are consuming, you are going to increase one of the most.

Critical nutrients that we need to pay attention to, which is fiber. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah, absolutely. And so let's talk then right now about the things you do need to pay attention to. What are the nutrients that are things you really need to keep your eye on? If you're going either fully plant-based or salmon plus plants or whatever ends up whatever?

Yeah. Your life and family. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah, and I think the nuance is that it [00:12:00] really depends on how plant-based you are, the degree to which you're gonna have to worry or pay attention to certain nutrients. There's some things that I think apply to all kids and even most adults. The first mistake, or I don't wanna call it a mistake, but one of the things, one of the missteps that people often make when they're transitioning to more of a plant-based diet is they're actually not eating enough calories.

And so a lot of plant foods, we mentioned that they have fiber, and so you may fill up on it more easily. And so the first thing is actually making sure that, especially for growing children, that they're getting adequate calories. The second thing I would say, it's actually one of the most controversial.

We can check it off the list right away. Nutrients, which is vitamin B12. And the reason that this nutrient is of such concern is that vitamin B12 deficiency can have some devastating outcomes, neurodevelopmental outcomes, especially for infants and for young children. It's a critical nutrient for so many pathways in our body.

And so vitamin B12 comes from animal source foods, so. If you're not eating animal source foods, it's gonna be hard to [00:13:00] get enough B12 in your diet. And it's interesting to note that animals actually get B12 from the soil that's it's in microorganisms, in soil. And so they graze and that's how they get the B12.

And sometimes their feed is fortified with B12. So we don't necessarily wanna be eating food without cleaning the dirt off just to get her vitamin B12. Um, but because vitamin B12 really is coming most predominantly from animal source foods, if you're not consistently any animal source foods, that's a nutrient that you wanna supplement.

The good news is that vitamin B12 is that water soluble vitamin, which means that if you take a little bit more than you need, you're just gonna pee it out in your urine. It's fairly inexpensive, it's easy to take, and it's widely available. So for anyone that is eating a vegetarian or vegan diet, I strongly recommend taking a B12 supplement.

You can get vitamin B12 and fortified foods. And for some people that are kind of plant-based ish, they're eating some animal foods, but not as many. They might get away with just doing fortified foods in a multivitamin, but. Because kids' intake can be so variable. One day they might [00:14:00] drink the fortified plant-based milk and the next day they might not.

I think that a B12 supplement is one of the safest things to do. And then the last thing I'll say about B12 is it's not just vegans and vegetarians that need to be concerned about B12. The Institute of Medicine actually recommends that anyone over the age of 50 get B12 from a fortification or a supplement.

Because the way that it's absorbed, and as we get older, as I am over 50, it that it's much safer to get B12 not from animal source foods, but from either fortified foods or as a supplement. So B12 non-negotiable for people that are eating a mostly plant-based diet, and certainly for people that are eating a vegan diet.

So that's the one that's probably the easiest and we can just kind of put to the side. 'cause there there's no negotiation. I don't think there's any controversy around that one. 

Dr. Anikó: Well, and two, when we spoke last time, I was sharing how my husband and I tried to go vegan and we were probably doing sort of the really common mistake of not getting enough calories.

'cause we're just getting full from whatever we're eating and we were just constantly hungry. And the other thing [00:15:00] is that we were eating a lot of lentils. 'cause my husband could live on rice and lentils just for the rest of his life. But I can, it's delicious. My mouth loves it. My belly does not love it as much.

Yeah. I always say like, I love lentils and they don't love me back. And when we were talking, you were giving some sort of bean troubleshooting advice, like, you can start with this bean instead of that bean. I feel like so often we try something and we're like, Nope, that didn't work for me. And then we kind of write it off forever instead of saying, oh, maybe I can try it from this angle or that angle.

So I imagine there's quite a lot of people who can't, you know who beans don't love them as much as they love beans. And what are your thoughts on that and what are, what's some troubleshooting advice you can give around that too? That's, I 

Dr. Reshma Shah: think one of the things about fiber is we know that it's. So beneficial in so many aspects because fiber is what feeds our gut bacteria, and that's what helps us to have a healthy microbiome.

We're learning more and more about this. If you're going from zero to a hundred with fiber, like eating a very low fiber diet to all of a sudden eating lentils and other, you know, [00:16:00] high fiber foods multiple times a day. Your gut is going to be sending off alarm signals because it's gonna be saying, whoa, we have not what?

What is going on? So I think the first thing is to go slowly, especially if you're going from low fiber to higher fiber. So start slowly. And I always like to use like a, an add in approach. So add in some higher fiber foods slowly. And then in terms of the legumes, I think the way I like to think about it is the hardier, the sort of legume or the bean, the more of an impact it might have on your digestive system.

So the things that break down really quickly, like one of my favorites to recommend people start with is red lentils. If you've ever cooked with red lentils, they kind of turn into like this mushy, I love a good red lentil soup. It just sort of turns in this into this sort of little. Mushy lentil. It's not very hardy, and so it's easier to digest.

So start with the more easily digestible lentils, like the red lentils, and then kinda work your way up. And I think some of the hardier beans, like kidney beans and things like that can be a little harder to digest. The other thing that you can do is if you're trying to incorporate [00:17:00] beans, is like if you're not ready to go all the way is like if you're making a chili, instead of doing an all meat chili, do half beans and half meat.

So that's one way. And there are also a lot of traditional ways of cooking foods. I think it's so interesting, like, you know, one of the things I talk about a lot when I work with the residents and the medical students, and even when I work with parents, is that. Our food is really connected to our culture and our traditions.

And if you look back to a lot of these traditional ways of cooking foods, they were very wise. They knew that cooking with like kobu can sometimes help to break down some of the components that can be difficult to digest. Even in traditional Indian cooking, there are certain spices like ox potato, which is also called hing, which can help with aiding in that digestion.

So relying on some of those traditional culinary methods to cook things, also using canned beans or beans that have been cooked in a pressure cooker that are really, really well cooked can also help. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. Well, and also I love what you're saying and I think it's just advice that we give a lot, but still, when we make [00:18:00] dietary changes, we tend to do the opposite.

That instead of taking out put in, and then naturally as you add more, those other things can get more easily pushed out. You don't feel like you're depriving yourself, and like you said, you're not going from zero. No beans in your life to like only beans in your life. And also the wisdom. And we're definitely gonna talk more about this, just the, the way that our food ties us to our culture and our ancestry and our history, and also the wisdom of it.

The way the order in which they used to eat food and serve food and they would have a soup to start or they would finish out with something fermented. Like there's a fermented part of almost every traditional cuisine that I can think of, whether it's yogurt, fermented dairy, or some kind of fermented vegetable.

There is wisdom in how we used to eat and as we get more into a plant-based or plant curious space. And also we used to eat more plants like me and Darienne, all of that. Those were like special occasion foods in most cultures. I won't say all cultures, [00:19:00] but we sort of moved that to like the vegetables being like maybe a couple pieces of cucumber and lunch and kind of everything else was animal based.

And we really, most of us were really not meant to eat like that. Yeah, I agree. And so any other sort of common either myths or troubleshooting or any sort of advice that you see a lot of people needing as they move into this space or support that you see a lot of people needing 

Dr. Reshma Shah: in terms of the support?

I think the most common things that I. I think that parents are looking for is definitely some guidance. And I think the way to look at it is like having a lot of choice and having a lot of options, but having some guardrails that make them feel really secure and comfortable in the changes that they're making.

So making sure that we're talking about adequate calories, we're talking about supplements if they need them, um, and then we're addressing specific nutritional concerns that they might have around protein or calcium. Like if I'm not drinking dairy, how am I gonna get my calcium? So I would say definitely like understanding what their traditions around [00:20:00] food are, understanding the way that their family eats, identifying the goals that they have, talking about specific nutrients.

And then overcoming the challenges of, and this has nothing to do with being plant-based or not, but just the daily work of feeding a family well. So whether it's, you know, providing some tips about menu planning or how to streamline things and recipes and dealing with picky eaters. So I think a lot of these challenges are universal and just.

Ideally, you're just like trying to meet parents where they are and then troubleshoot the places that they're getting stuck and then kind of move forward from there. 

Dr. Anikó: Well, and you're right, because everybody is coming at it with different goals, right? Somebody might be saying, I just want to have a healthier diet for my family, or I feel really strongly about taking care of our planet more.

And other people might be coming at it from, you know, my child was diagnosed with an illness, or I was diagnosed with an illness. And there's so many different goals that we have and also fears that we come with, and difficult [00:21:00] situations that we come in with. So. Yeah, I think it's really important that you come at it from such an empathic and thoughtful and understanding place with support because again, it's great to have all these choices, but if you don't really know where to start, it's can be really overwhelming.

And I didn't realize before I had a family how much of a pain it is to feed everybody, you know, like one of every day, every day. It doesn't. That's multi, multiple times, ishma, multiple times a day, multiple times. Well, and one of my, I, I take this yearly retreat by myself and the first thing I noticed that was such a relief the first time I went on this retreat, and it's not like a organized, it's just me by myself in the woods.

It's amazing. I love it was that I didn't have to feed anybody else that I could just like go off on my own with a granola bar. And I don't have to worry about this other person that's getting hangry or this person that hasn't had enough vegetables today. It really is a lot of mental load to figure it out, especially if you're [00:22:00] not somebody that's like a real chef type.

Like I enjoy eating a lot, but I'm not a big like, Ooh, like I found this recipe. I will do that sometimes, like on a special occasion, but in the day in and day out, I'm not sitting there experimenting. And I 

Dr. Reshma Shah: think parents want some sort of quick ideas that are gonna check off the boxes. And I have some simple boxes that I think the parents are always looking for.

They're looking to check off nutrition, like is it a reasonably balanced meal? They're looking to check off taste because if it doesn't taste good, no one's gonna eat it. And then they're looking to check off that box of what can I put together reasonably at six o'clock when I've got soccer practice and I'm getting home from work.

And so it has to have some element of convenience or I can get it together fairly quickly. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. Well, and I also think too, and this is, you know, we have a lot of evidence to support this, and it's something that I just find myself saying over and over again in my practice is that just keep exposing your children to these new foods and these new textures and these new tastes, and if you're not forcing it on [00:23:00] them.

They tend to adopt them pretty quickly. Not every kid, not every food. Obviously there's exceptions, but in general, you know, your kid might initially be like, Ew, gross tofu. No. And then the 10th or the 20th or the 30th time they have it on their plate again. Not like it's the only thing on their plate. And now they're starving.

'cause the only you're serving tofu steaks and tofu rice and tofu, everything. But kids are more adaptable than I think we often give them credit for. And their palates certainly are because their pals have been formed by kind of like what they've been exposed to until now. So there is room to expand it as well.

And is that your experience as well in practice? I think 

Dr. Reshma Shah: too, I think there's also been like a, I'm curious to know your thoughts on this too. I think there's been like a shift in the last decade for sure. And maybe it has to do with social media, but I also think that there's also like an element of like judgment and like how we're doing things.

And I remember when I was growing up. I don't ever recall a single time unless somebody in our household was sick, my [00:24:00] mother ever making a separate meal for anybody. I grew up in a very traditional household and I think, you know, there's a lot that I've done differently than my family of origin. We had two working physicians and so some things I didn't have the time that my mom did when I was growing up, but she cooked dinner, we had dinner together and it was the same meal that everyone ate.

And I think there are definitely situations, and this is not to minimize 'cause I've worked with a lot of families who have struggled with specific feeding issues. There are children who have highly selective eating, maybe they're dealing with a neurodevelopmental issue, an underlying medical condition, and those families absolutely need support and you may have to offer a different type of meal to deal with specific medical or behavioral or whatever challenge the family is dealing with.

But I think the vast majority of families. Really need to sort of focus on that family meal and this idea that we're all eating the same thing. And I can share a personal story. I mean, this was actually a [00:25:00] very pivotal thing that happened to me that completely changed the trajectory of how I feed my family.

It was in the early years, I, my kids were young, like preschool age, and my husband and I are both physicians, and I just remember it was one of those. Days where it's like coming home from work and what are we doing? And I realized that I had made three separate meals. There was something my, for my husband and I, I think I had like tofu nuggets for one.

I looked through three separate things and it wasn't a very complicated meal, but I remember looking at the table thinking, what am I doing? And it was just like, that was a moment where I drew a line in the sand and I said, no more we're not doing this anymore. And the meals were not complicated. They were not fancy.

But I sat the kids down and I said, listen, we're all gonna be doing the same thing and this is what I'm gonna make. And I, we can definitely talk about how I sort of made that transition a little bit more. But like it was. Very rough waters for the first couple weeks because it takes some time to adjust.

Like, what do you mean you're not making tofu nuggets for me? Or, [00:26:00] what do you mean? But after those two weeks, it was very bumpy, it was very rocky. But since then, I have not made a separate meal for anybody. We all eat the same thing and it requires a little bit of tolerating discomfort and it requires, you know, some persistence.

But in the long run, I think it's a huge payoff. And I would really encourage families to whatever degree they have, the capacity to work towards that goal. It makes it easier for the person who's cooking. And I think it creates a little bit more resiliency around food. It, it doesn't have to be your favorite at every meal.

Certainly you don't wanna be feeding kids things that they really don't like. And I make every effort, I have things that I don't like. And if you served it to me, I might say, no, thank you. So you don't wanna do that. But for the most part, I think the notion of. Picky eating, garden variety, picky eating. I think it has a lot to do with the sort of structures and routines that we set up around mealtimes and that's something that parents can work towards and I think it's something worth spending some effort and time on.[00:27:00] 

Dr. Anikó: That makes a lot of sense and I'm happy that you, you know, bit the bullet for those Rocky two weeks and came out the other side. And actually, you know, you started this part by talking about social media and it kind of reminds me of everybody on their own screens in the household and then being like, Hey.

We're gonna watch something together now. Yeah. This is gonna be a time of connection, you know, because we do historically, culturally, we connect around food. If everyone's eating their own thing, they're kind of in their own little world in some ways. Obviously we can still be in the same space sharing conversation, but there is a way that instead of being a collective, we're not.

And you know, certainly I, I, I find this to be an opportunity to call children into learning how to cook and be like, oh, you don't like that one? Well, what would you like? And calling them in, in these other ways, but still in this connected, we're doing it together. This is a shared experience versus you're gonna have this and you're gonna have this, and I'm gonna make it all.

I mean, [00:28:00] that just feels. Exhausting. I would be furious. You know, and it's that kind of thing where you're just like angrily cooking and that's not good either. You shouldn't cook with anger. Yeah. That food won't taste Very good. And this is a nice segue into, because you talk about the intersection of nutrition feeding and parenting.

Yeah. So talk more about that. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: I think that, you know, I, I fully recognize that I'm maybe perhaps in the minority and that I do actually enjoy cooking. It wasn't always that way. It's something that I've So happy for you. Yeah. It's something that I've grown to enjoy, but I think that food is. An expression or can be an expression of care.

And it's really a place where our values can show up at the dinner table. And I think that a lot of times parents get so focused in on like making sure that it's perfectly balanced and that all the nutrition is covered and there's not added sugar, and there's not this and not that. And the first thing that I actually ask parents to focus on is like how they're showing up at the table.

Mm-hmm. Because [00:29:00] if the table, if the dinner table is an inviting place to be, people are gonna wanna come. But if it's a place of conflict, of tension, of forcing kids to eat or of, you know, negotiating bites, like who would wanna show up for that? So I think the first step is really to create a, a nourishing environment around the dinner table.

And then gradually you can sort of, I, I think it's actually really hard to work on the nutrition part until you've worked on the connection piece until you've worked. 'cause I think the kids also have to have a little bit of trust and feeling the warmth in order to be relaxed enough to actually. Even be open to trying new food.

Definitely, 

Dr. Anikó: yeah. Having that trust and like you said, that safety to be like, oh, I'll be okay. Even if I don't like it, I'll be okay. No one's gonna yell at me, no one's gonna force me to finish it. And actually something recently, we were kinda organizing the house and you know, you always find these clothing items or whatever it is, and you're like, you, I forgot about you.

And at some point I bought these like little conversation cards just to have on the coffee table. And there was another one [00:30:00] that was called Little Talks, that's about conversations with kids. It's their little conversation prompts. And I found 'em and I put them on the dinner table and my younger child just sort of started, we started using them at dinner time and it's been so.

Nice and just, so also not interrogatory where you're like, how was school? What's up with that? Yeah. How's your test? You know, like that doesn't feel nice and relaxing to eat around. And I love that you emphasize the importance of the dinner table, the family dinner together. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah. And I think, you know, I, I get a, sometimes I get pushback.

They're like, you don't understand our schedule. It's like, there's no way we're gonna have family dinner because you know, this one's at soccer and this one's working late. One of the things that I think is really important to emphasize is like my definition of family dinner is not that everyone's at the dinner table dressed nicely with good manners at the same time, my definition of family dinner is if you're at home, we're eating together.

Yeah. Like there's no, I'm eating in front at my desk and you're gonna eat in in your room. It's just [00:31:00] whoever's at home comes together. And family dinner can also be breakfast or could be a snack. The whole goal is sitting down, no screens and connecting together. I think I read a statistic in one of the papers that I included in our book that the average American family spends 17 minutes at the dinner table, 17 minutes.

Wow. So it's not a lot of time, and I think that those 17 minutes have the power to be both the most stressful. And also the most rewarding times of our day. And in our family, family dinner became like a, it was a routine that just like when you get in your car, you put on your seat belts, like you don't question it.

I think my kids have grown. I mean, it took, remember those rocky two weeks, but I think it's just, it's just such a part of our routine that they don't even question it even when they're coming home from college even, you know, as we've become empty nesters when they're home, we're always eating family dinner together.

And it's like sometimes it's the only time they're, you're actually sitting down together as a family talking. And that's why, I think you [00:32:00] mentioned this before, but I think, um, those 17 minutes are absolutely not the time to be talking about chores, a bad grade. You wanna keep the conversation. It doesn't have to be earth shattering.

Tell me your views on the latest political whatever, but it just has to be neutral to positive. That's what I say. Mm-hmm. But you don't want it to be tense or talking about subjects that can have a lot of just animosity or bad feelings around them. 

Dr. Anikó: Well, right. 'cause even physiologically, that doesn't make sense.

'cause then you're in a sympathetic state and you can't digest, you're not hungry. Your body's like, Ooh, I don't wanna run and I don't want to eat a meal right now. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Um, and I realize the temptation with parents, because sometimes, like, especially with teenagers, it's the only time you have. So you feel like you gotta cram in, like, you know, did you do the thing?

But I really encourage parents to not bring up stressful topics at the dinner table. 

Dr. Anikó: I think that's really great advice. And I will say that there is so much of, if you're only spending 17 minutes a day at the dinner table, there's so many other minutes of the day that you can [00:33:00] talk about stressful things.

And it reminds me of, we made a rule in the car, we're in the car more than we would like to be, and just emotions run high. And we were finding that we were getting in a lot of fights in the car and the kids were getting in a lot of fights. And at some point we had a discussion of, you know, let's make the car a conflict free zone.

It doesn't mean that we don't talk it out later, but we don't talk it out there. And if stuff comes up, then we can contain it and wait until we get home, wait until we finish food or whatever it is. There is a way to contain things and keep that place being like a safe, like you said, neutral to positive space because it's about connecting and eating, not necessarily hashing out every.

Difficult thing that's going on in the family at the time. And I will say that now when I go back to my parents' house and when I go to my husband's home, it's really sweet that whenever somebody's eating, and it wasn't this way necessarily when I was growing up, but whenever somebody's eating, one of my parents will sit down with them.

[00:34:00] And certainly my, my husband's mom always will sit with anybody eating because her idea is nobody should be eating alone. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Oh. I'm the same way. I mean, my, my youngest was home for the summer from college, and anytime I would hear his little feet going to get a snack, I would just like conveniently have to do something in the kitchen and just to kind of chitchat.

'cause I don't know if that's a cultural thing, but I feel the same thing. Don't eat by yourself and sit down please when you eat. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. And stop running around the house with your food and. I, like I said before, I love that you talk about it being joyful, connected, and that there's not like a prescription and it really feels like so many things when it comes to what works for you.

Yes. You need guidance. You need an, an amazing book like Nourish. You need an amazing one, one-on-one coach like Dr. Shaw. And you need that part of yourself where you're going inward and saying what feels nourishing to me and to my family and what routines work for us and is it dinner every night? Or even I, I like to expand the idea of the family table.

Like if [00:35:00] you can't, like you were saying, if you can't manage having a family dinner, maybe you have a family cup of tea before you go to bed. Yeah. You know, there's other ways of thinking about this. And because you don't heal in isolation, you heal in community. It is through our communities healing, our planet's healing.

So I would like to talk to you some about how our food choices impact the planet because it's profound. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: It's profound and I think that, you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics has a policy statement on the climate impacts on child health, and we know that climate change is a contributor to so many significant health outcomes for children, including higher rates of asthma and respiratory illnesses.

There's even this concept of eco anxiety. I think that our kids are growing up seeing so many natural disasters, whether it's fires or floods, and you know, that's contributing to mental health issues. And so the impacts of climate change on child health are enormous, and food is definitely a place where we have a lover to lift.

Dr. Anikó: Yeah, [00:36:00] and I remember in your presentation you were talking about, and this just, it made me feel very powerful because you were talking about, okay, let's say you're planning your own meals, right? And it's just impacting one person. When you're planning, let's say four people's meals, that's four times the impact, right?

It impacts how we use land, you know, because to grow agriculture on land, you grow so much more food when you're growing plant-based food or plants for food than you are when you're raising animals for food, particularly cattle, right? Yeah. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Exactly, and I think that, you know, in, in terms of this impact that we can have, it's kind of one of the reasons that I do what I do is like, yes, me as the person who's doing the shopping and the cooking and the family can impact my small family.

When I'm invited to someone's house for dinner or for a potluck or for any kind of communal eating, bringing a plant-based option exposes those people. If I'm giving a talk and I'm introducing people to the idea of how [00:37:00] nourishing and delicious and you know, all the wonderful aspects of eating more plants in their diet, that's another set of people that you expose around this way of eating.

And as pediatricians, you know, I think that a lot of times people, a lot of the pediatricians I've spoken to. They feel uncomfortable 'cause like they think that their patients aren't gonna wanna have these conversations. They feel like it might be too big of a ask, it might be too intimidating. And I think that families are really eager to hear this information.

I think the important thing is being able to deliver it in a way that meets them where they are and is without judgment. I always say like, you know, you and I, we may have specific expertise in pediatrics, but parents are always the experts of their family and they, I, I think that parents are incredibly eager to talk about this.

So we can definitely be advocates in clinical settings and teaching settings. And one of the most powerful ways, I mean, I think definitely giving people information, giving them resources, evidence-based guidance, but is to expose them to really delicious plant-based foods. Because if you're, at the end of the day, [00:38:00] if it does not taste good.

People are not gonna be convinced to eat this way. But if it tastes good, it feels satisfying. And also you feel like you're having some sort of a positive impact on the climate. It's like a win-win, win. 

Dr. Anikó: It's absolutely a win-win, win. And when you were talking about sort of your delight in discovering that, what's good for our bodies.

Our health is good for our planet's health. In my head I was like, yeah, duh. I mean, 'cause we're all a system. Of course, what's good for us is going to be good for our planet and vice versa. And yes, there's so much good, there's so much good plant-based food. And I, I also think about how, you know, how soy can be controversial in some circles with the phytoestrogens and all that.

And I, I did an episode on that and to be clear, soy from food, so foreign in studies has been shown to be safe, even with breast cancer issues and that kind of thing. But again, you don't wanna overdo it. You don't wanna have like soy based breakfast cereal with soy milk and then a soy yogurt and soy, soy, soy.

And so I think that idea of having [00:39:00] guidance and slowly welcoming things in without like, replacing everything. And it also reminds me of, I was at a, I was at a Pilates class the other day 'cause I started doing Pilates and I'm really enjoying it. And someone was talking about how they had. Cajun cookbook that was plant-based.

It was like a vegan Cajun cookbook and this other, and I was like, Ooh. And everybody else in the class was like, oh. And I was like, that sounds amazing. And you know, it all comes down to spices and textures and, you know, even people that are really into meat, I feel very satisfied. When I eat mushrooms, for example, it has that chewy, that meaty texture.

It fills me up. And just really being open to all these different experiences without necessarily saying like, I want it to taste like meat. 'cause I think that sometimes sets me up for failure anyway, when I want like a hamburger. I love a veggie burger, but I don't want a veggie burger if I want a hamburger.

You know? And I think just being, like you said, honest with, okay, [00:40:00] I'm gonna have a hamburger once in a while, or I'm gonna have salmon once in a while. Or I'm just, I'm gonna be a che Italian plant-based and, and also all cheese. There's so many ways we can do this and everything we do makes an impact. And one thing that I remember too that made an impact and I actually started incorporating this, is to have only one meal a day have animal protein in it, or maybe just two instead of all of them have, and breakfast is pretty simple.

You could do granola with a plant-based milk. Are there any plant-based milks that you recommend over others for kids in particular? 

Dr. Reshma Shah: I'm so glad you brought this topic up because I'm thinking about the parent that's at the grocery store and they're trying to sort of, okay, I should do plant-based, but then I have to worry about nutrition and I shouldn't do additives.

There are a lot of messages that are coming at parents in terms of you can be paralyzed in the grocery store aisle. So what I, what I recommend in terms of a plant-based milk, especially if you're replacing cow's milk, you wanna make that transition, is I always think about the [00:41:00] nutrients that are found in cow's milk that you're likely to miss out on.

When you switch to a plant-based milk, for me it's usually protein and it's calcium. Those are the two main things. And then, you know, fortification. So cow's milk is also fortified with vitamin D and sometimes with vitamin A. So those are some things you can consider too. But in terms of growing kids, and especially for kids that are transitioning from, if they're weaning off of formula, off of breast milk onto a plant-based milk.

For athletes, really, for most kids, I like to recommend a fortified soy milk. Or if you have a soy intolerance or allergy, you could do a fortified pea protein milk. And the reason that I recommend those two things for younger kids is because ounce per ounce, they have about the same amount of protein as a glass of cow's milk.

Um, so a glass of soy milk has anywhere from seven to eight, sometimes nine grams of protein and a glass of cow's milk is about the same. And then you wanna choose a fortified option. If the plant-based milk is not fortified with calcium, it tends to be very, very low in calcium. And while there are many, many plant-based foods that have calcium, so things like kale and [00:42:00] broccoli and tahini and almonds, those are all foods that have calcium.

It would be really difficult for the average child to meet their calcium needs with food alone. Like the amount of kale you'd have to consume is like nowhere close to reasonable. And so including a couple of glasses of fortified plant-based milks, uh, fortified with calcium can help kids to meet their calcium needs.

And most plant-based milks that are fortified with calcium have as much, if not more calcium than a glass of calcium milk. Now, for older kids, when they're getting the vast majority of the calories from, not from milk, they're getting it from food. If you wanted to switch over to an almond milk or an oat milk or something like that, I think it's totally fine.

'cause you're usually eating enough other foods to get your protein requirements. But for young kids, like around, you know, under the age of two or three, I think a fortified s soy milk is a good way to ensure that they're getting adequate protein intake. And you absolutely wanna make sure that it's fortified with calcium.

Dr. Anikó: That's really helpful. Right, because the average parent is going into the plant-based milk aisle and there's rice milk, and there's all kinds of milk. Yeah. [00:43:00] You know, then they're not equal in protein or calcium or any of those things. And also, to be clear to our listeners, obviously for the first year of life, babies should be breastfed or formula fed.

You don't wanna introduce cow's milk or any other kind of milk until after the age of one. So that's really helpful. Well, okay, so we're gonna wrap up pretty soon. I wanted to ask you, if you're just starting to get Plant curious, besides going out and buying Dr. Shah's book, nourish, what are some. Sort of first action steps that you can recommend that people do.

Dr. Reshma Shah: Uh, so one of the things I'd say is kind of take stock of what your family already enjoys. I think that like the word vegan, like you were saying in your Pilates class, like people are like, Ooh, what is that? You know? But there are a lot of foods that we eat that are vegan. Apples are vegan. Peanut butter and jelly is vegan.

Pasta with marinara sauce is vegan. There are lots and lots of things that we eat on a daily basis that by definition are vegan. So think about the meals, the snacks, the foods that your family already enjoys. They're [00:44:00] already plant-based and try to do them more often. So if you've got like a vegetarian or vegan recipe that your family seems to like, maybe put that in the regular rotation.

So you're just eating those foods that you already enjoy more often. And then I think. Really looking at what's gonna work for you. You talked about making sure that at least X number of meals a day are plant-based. So you could just start with just one plant-based meal a day, make sure breakfast is plant-based, and then you go on to lunch and then maybe snacks, and then make maybe dinner.

Some families just will start with a meatless Monday, whatever is gonna work for your family. Start there. And then what my personal experience and in the families I've worked with, the more you start eating plant-based, the easier it becomes. You just sort of end up gravitating to those kinds of foods.

And for the longest time when I, the step I made right before going fully plant-based was I was entirely plant-based at home because I could totally control what came in the house, what I was cooking, and then I gave myself some flexibility if I was out to dinner, if I was on [00:45:00] vacation, if I was at a friend's house.

And that gave me enough confidence to be able to go fully vegan. So I think focus on the foods your family already enjoy. Think about where you can add in more plant-based foods and go at a pace that seems reasonable for you, because I think anyone can make a change for a day, for a week, or even for a 30 day challenge.

But you wanna sort of move towards changes that your family can sustain in the long run. 

Dr. Anikó: And are there things like, I'm thinking back to the like Rocky two weeks. I know that wasn't necessarily about moving into plant-based foods. It was about moving into everybody eating the same thing. But is there wisdom you can share around kind of getting your family on a similar page or Oh yes.

On the same page, 

Dr. Reshma Shah: I can share a couple of personal stories. One is one of the things that I. Decided to do when I wanted to become more plant-based, as I actually got a certification in this plant-based professional cooking course. It was a wonderful course. And you know, I had these homework assignments and so I had to create these meals and submit them for my homework.

And I [00:46:00] remember my kids were in elementary school at the time. I would have them be my critics. I'm like, okay, I'm trying this new recipe and I need you to taste it and tell me does it need a little more salt? Is this seasoning right? And when they put on that hat, they, first of all, they thought it was so funny that I had homework and they were very keen to grade me.

But getting them involved and especially if they have to give an opinion or, and to this day, like my, when my son's home from college, if I'm making something, I'm like, I just want an opportunity to connect with him, but I'll take a spoon. And I'm like, can you taste this? Tummy me? What do you think? And he's so keen to give me feedback.

So get your kids involved. And I think the other thing that I did that was really useful, um. Was when I was creating my menu for the week, like my grocery list and things like that, I would say to my kids, give me your wishes for the week. And so it made them feel like they really had a contribution. They had a say and it wasn't being forced upon them.

And the rule that I had was, I'm gonna do my very best to honor your wishes. But when we sit down to the [00:47:00] table, there's no complaining about the food. It doesn't mean you have to love it doesn't mean you have to gimme compliments. But there is no like, oh, we're having this for dinner. So I made sure to ask them for their wishes.

In the beginning, they had a lot of wishes and I really did my best to kind of honor them. And then after a while you sort of get into a rhythm. You kind of know what your family likes and you know, so get the kids involved. And my approach to feeding kids is always caring. Without catering, I want you to enjoy the food.

I want you to look forward to the meal. But I'm not cooking three separate meals and I'm, you know, and I think that's sort of like caring without catering is a really. It's a good way to sort of come back. You want your approach to be really warm and it's all, it's about all of parenting, right? It's that managing that expectation versus warmth.

You wanna give them some routines and structure, but you also wanna approach it with a generous dose of love and caring and feeling connected to them. 

Dr. Anikó: Well, yeah. 'cause there's a lot of sturdiness in that to be like, yeah, this is what we're doing and I hope you like it. [00:48:00] And if you don't, the world doesn't fall apart.

I'm not gonna fall apart. I'm not gonna be like, oh no, now I have to make you another meal. Like everybody will survive. And that there's more to this than just how much you enjoy the food. Yeah. There's like a whole other world. There's other people, there's other purposes here. And of course, yes, we would love for you to enjoy the food a hundred percent, a hundred percent of the time, but things aren't gonna fall apart if you don't.

Yeah. And you won't 

Dr. Reshma Shah: fall. And sometimes your ears are snacking. Let's get out the door. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I do love the addition of no complaining. 'cause I feel like I have. Passive aggressively made that rule with sarcasm sometimes at my table or I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. Is the thing that I made you with love and care not good enough today?

And there's a much more direct way of doing that. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: We, I don't know. As a parent, it's like we really do work so hard. And to think that you spent the time doing the grocery shopping and preparing the meal and getting everyone to the table and all the cleanup and all the things, and then to have people moaning about [00:49:00] it, it's just 

Dr. Anikó: rude.

It's rude. Well, and so I love the expectation of I'm gonna do my best. And I personally find that when my kids are part of the cooking process or the grocery shopping, I let them pick out the vegetables. Which ones look good to you? They might pick an interesting one that they've never had. Or like, they love a purple cauliflower.

They think that's like hilarious. But if they're involved in the cooking, they're just that much more invested. Right? It's like when they, it just like anything, right? When they're part of the. Family fabric, we need you to keep this house in order. You're an important part of this family. That applies to cooking as well.

That applies to our experience of food and our experience in the kitchen. Completely. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: And I think also like I, I feel like the curiosity that kids have around food. I was at the farmer's market this past weekend and there was a little kid, couldn't have been more than four or five, and he picked up this bunch of herbs, walked over to his dad and he said, what is this?

And the dad said, it's oregano. And he said, oregano, can we buy the [00:50:00] oregano? And then they were talking about, well, what would we do with the oregano? And they were, and you know, for a moment I think the dad was like, hesitating, I don't really think we need oregano. Like, and then at the end of the, he was like, yeah, let's get the oregano.

And I was like, oh, this is so beautiful. Like this kid has just learned what oregano is. They're gonna find a way to cook with it together. And I guarantee you he is gonna taste whatever that they made without oregano because he discovered it, the farmer's market. So like tapping into their natural curiosity around food is, to me it's just gold.

Dr. Anikó: A hundred percent. And I think it also allows us to tap into the play of cooking too, right? Because I just shared a story about how like cooking has become like my chore and like I have to figure this out. I have to do it fast, I have to do it right. Everyone has to like, like it enough to eat it. And there's such a play in creativity that can be with cooking.

And I do find it at the farmer's market with foods and spices especially, you know, when they see the turmeric and they're like, what's that? It looks crazy. And when my kids were tiny, I used to have them smell different spices. [00:51:00] And I think that's another really lovely thing about plant-based cooking, especially if it's like Indian food or Thai food.

There's so many interesting spices that sometimes your kids haven't been exposed to that then they get to discover. It's really fun when you can kind of slow it down and all of, I mean, it's a work in progress for all of us, right? It's not like I'm walking through life enjoying every second and being like, what a gift every moment is, I'm working towards that.

But things like that, like a farmer's market experience or smelling flowers, or even edible flowers. I remember my kids had some edible flowers and a drink, and they were like, what? Like mind blown, like you can eat flowers. This is crazy. And just getting back to that sense of wonder and allowing them to pull you back.

So I'm so happy that dad bought the oregano. I know, me too. It's like I can spend this dollar 50 like, 

Dr. Reshma Shah: and I also think, to be clear, it's like we still had tofu nuggets in the house after that event. It's like, and not every meal has to be the oregano that I got at the farmer's market. Sometimes it is just the thing in the freezer that we're gonna [00:52:00] defrost or throw in the oven.

And it's about finding that balance of what works for you. And it's not always gonna be amazing conversations and deep connection at the dinner table, but I think it's just like. With so many things in life, it's just showing some consistency, showing up, and it gets easier. And yeah, I think that it's, food is a really wonderful way to connect us around our traditions, our culture, our values.

And I think that if parents can feel a little bit more comfortable and a little bit more confident, um, around how they feed their families, it can be a really, really rewarding experience. 

Dr. Anikó: I agree. And actually, now that you're saying this, I wanted to address how some people's reticence to change how they eat is because of their bond to their cultural.

Food practices, like I know at least in New Orleans, you know, there's a lots of fried chicken and lots of fried foods and not often plant-based. And there is a way that sometimes you feel like you're rejecting your family and rejecting your [00:53:00] culture when you say, Hey, I, I'm doing this differently now.

Just like anything, right? Like anything that you stiff, you know, you say, I'm gonna do this differently than my family can sometimes feel like a rejection. What are your thoughts on how to navigate that? 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Well, I think it really comes down to. At the end of the day, it's a relationship issue, I think, and not a food issue.

When I decided to go fully plant-based, not everybody was on the, the vegan train with me. And basically what I said is, uh, these are the changes I'm making. You do not have to change, but I'm not going to buy or cook these foods anymore. And they were totally fine. And it was like, I think because there was like a, it's a change that I'd been making gradually over a period of time and they saw and I was willing to put forth the effort of cooking and doing all the things.

It's really just a question of like respect. And I think if you are the one that's making the change, I think not insisting that other people make the change or forcing people to make the change can go a long way because nobody wants to be told what to do and [00:54:00] nobody wants to feel judged about their food choices.

And so really, and it wasn't smooth sailing, I'm sure I've made, my family could tell you I made some missteps along the way, but for the most part I really did try to sort of share what was important to me and they were able to respect that and honor that. And then, you know, gradually the more and more I cook plant-based, everyone in our family now is either being vegetarian.

Mm-hmm. And it didn't happen overnight and it took some time. But I think, you know, just having some patience and really just respecting and caring about the other person, I think that's what it comes down to. Now with extended family, it's a whole different story and it can get quite complicated. 'cause I know that I've had a lot of families I've worked with.

Share about the challenges that they face about going to parents' houses or, you know, and people questioning their choices and even poking fun and things like that. I tend to think that if they're poking fun or making, giving you a hard time about this, it's probably in other realms of your relationship too.

But if you have sort of that kind of connected [00:55:00] relationship where they can just show you some mutual respect, I think it, it generally works well. Um, and if it's not going well, I think it has to do with some deeper underlying relationship issues. 

Dr. Anikó: No, that's very true. And I think too, as you were saying about the no judgment, it can't, I can't help but think that if people are making fun of you for your food choices, they're feeling judged.

Yes. By your choices. Right. They're feeling like, like you're rejecting what they're doing. And that's a whole different conversation. You started it by saying, this is a choice I'm making for myself. You don't have to do anything differently. Right, right. So you can show up to Sunday dinner that you know is gonna be.

Not plant-based heavy foods, maybe foods you can't eat, and maybe you'll go and you'll have eaten and maybe you eat some sides or you don't eat at all, but you're going for the company. You're not coming in being like, well, hey, I'm vegan now. Everybody do something differently. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: There's this ongoing joke about like, oh, how do you know if somebody's vegan?

And they're like, don't worry, they'll tell you about it. But my experience has been the opposite. I rarely, obviously, we're having a conversation [00:56:00] about this now, but I, if I'm in a social gathering or if I'm meeting someone for the first time, I, there's no need for me to say it, but I find that there's an automatic sense of curiosity.

When they see the food that I'm eating, they'll comment and they'll ask questions. And oftentimes it's a really wonderful conversation. 'cause it's based out of curiosity. Um, but. I think that people tend to feel an immediate sense of judgment by your choices, even if you haven't said anything. And I can't tell you the number of times where people have said, oh, I definitely try to cut down on meat, and, you know, there's no explanation required.

I'm not judging. If you have questions, I'm happy to talk about it. Um, but everyone's on their own journey and it's not like I have been vegan for my whole life. So I understand very specifically the questions, the challenges, the difficulties, and so yeah, there's no need for judgment, 

Dr. Anikó: right? You're not like lording your veganism over anybody being like, I'm the one that's doing it.

Right. And you losers are not. And you also have a few resources on your website, right? [00:57:00] There's a I do Family meals reimagined guide. Tell us more about those. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah, so the book is definitely a labor of love and it sort of goes into the reasons families might go plant-based. It does a deep dive into some specific nutrients around calcium and protein.

In B12. There's a lot of in-depth charts. And as you mentioned, we do also talk about pick eating and family meals and common challenges. So the book is, you know, there for anybody. And then I also have a lot of free resources on my website. I have a handful of recipes in my mind. It has to be sort of family friendly, easy enough to do.

It's not gonna be just dumping a bunch of cans of something, but not too labor intensive. Um, and then I have a couple of free guides. One of them is just family meals reimagined. So thinking about how can you, if you're a family that hasn't been doing regular family meals, how can you sort of approach that?

And it's got some plant-based recipes at the end. And then I also have a plant-based starter guide. So if you're just starting out, it goes over some of the common nutrients that you might wanna consider. There's a few more, but the third one that might be really helpful for people is how to manage calcium.

If [00:58:00] you're a family that doesn't consume dairy. Because that's probably one of the questions I get asked most often. So yeah, all those guides are free on my website and people can check 'em out. 

Dr. Anikó: And your website is www.hawmdparentcoaching.com. And that's gonna be linked with this episode. And also, and I find this pretty mind blowing, you also offer coaching, like talk about going straight to the experts so people can actually do one-on-one coaching with like you Yeah.

With all of this wealth of knowledge. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah. So when I left clinical practice a few years ago, I realized that I kinda missed working with families one-on-one. So coaching has been a great way and sometimes it's, you know, I have a lot of different options. So if it's just like a one time, like I just wanna know that I'm doing this right.

There's like a one time option, and then I work with families more long term if they've got. You know, deeper issues that they're working on, whether it's dealing with a new diagnosis or, you know, I had one family I worked with that had three children with three different feeding issues. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of options.

And for [00:59:00] anyone looking for support, I'd love to connect and you can definitely reach out, ask questions, and yeah, love to work together. 

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. And there can be a lot of complexity, right? Because as we talked about, sometimes there's health conditions, sometimes there's multiple in the same family. So some of this you really need a lot of support in.

And the book itself, I mean, there's beautiful recipes in there. And you wrote it with a registered dietician, right? 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Yeah. She's been in the plant-based, I, I say she's one of the OGs that she's been in the plant-based space for decades and decades, and she has a wealth of information and she is truly an expert in the field, so I was very fortunate to write the book with her.

Dr. Anikó: Yeah. So the book in itself is a huge resource. And then if you need more guidance, Dr. Shaw has starter guides and all kinds of resources, and then you can work with her. One-on-one, and she is on Instagram as well, under Shaw. I have so enjoyed having you on Nourish today. It's been so much fun talking to you.

Like you said, we've talked like one time and it feels like we're old [01:00:00] friends. I know. Well, we were on this nourish, nourished, converging path together, clearly for years. So thank you so much for being here. And we will see y'all next time. 

Dr. Reshma Shah: Thank you so much.

Dr. Anikó: Thank you so much for listening to Nourish Today. Your presence is truly felt and so deeply appreciated. I hope today's episode brought you some insight and also some inspiration to create an even better life and world for yourself and for your community. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to follow the podcast and leave a review and please share Nourish with a friend.

It helps more people discover the power of true nourishment. Until next time, take good care of yourself and your people and stay [01:01:00] nourished.