What shapes a leader long before the title ever comes? - Ted Bliefnick

In this episode, Ted Bliefnick opens up about growing up in Decatur, Illinois—where faith, sports, community, and hard work laid the foundation for his life. He shares candidly about battling ADD and depression, the heartbreak of losing close friends to suicide, and the lessons learned from regret, failure, and rebuilding.

From scaling a recruiting firm to tens of millions in revenue to launching a new venture during COVID, Ted unpacks how his leadership evolved—from commanding to coaching—and what it means to lead with questions instead of ego.

We also dive into marriage, raising three boys in a tech-driven world, and how AI is reshaping the future of work.

This one is honest, powerful, and deeply human.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

But there's nothing that can prepare you as a kid for depression. Yeah. And then dealing with your friend's suicide. Because there was zero no telltale signs. In fact, one of our buddies dropped him off after school that day. And they chatted. No big deal. He's like, I there was nothing. Went inside. And the rest is history after that.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Hey there, welcome back to Above and Beyond Recellants Meet's Elevation. I'm your host, Jan Simon. And this season we're raising the bar, diving into the passion, purpose, and defining moments of leaders who don't just aim high, they live there. Big ideas, real stories. Let's get into it. Today's guest is Ted Bleefnik, an entrepreneur, operator, and community builder shaped by Midwest roots and people. Growing up in Decatur, Illinois, Ted learned early the value of hard work, accountability, and showing up for others. Those lessons have followed him from competitive athletes into more than 20 years of servant leadership in recruiting, staffing, and workforce solutions, where he's helped scale teams and operations, generating tens of millions in revenue without losing culture. Today, Ted helps businesses, schools, and public organizations grow smarter through cost optimization, AI-enabled sales strategies, and forward-thinking solutions. Grounded, optimistic, and deeply family-oriented. Ted brings a real world leadership and a clear vision for what's next. And I'm excited for him or me to share his story. You just did. I know. We're done. Did you write that? Or me? I did.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I wrote it like 10 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah. And then I went, hey, AI, make this shorter. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Because it's a lot of words. It's a lot of words. It was a ton of words. But you've done some incredible things. And I think I read that you played basketball. You'd played golf, or you still play golf. I didn't play golf. You still play basketball?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

So I played last Thursday. I'll play like every three to six months. I'm like, I'm going to get back in it. But I've got bad knees, bad hips, bad joints, bad everything, bad etiquette, bad manners. And I'm like, every three to six months, I'm like, I'm going to do it. Yeah. And this was that time. My buddies have been bugging me to play. And I'm and I see him four times a week because of our kids play sports together. And we see each other at the gym every morning. And he's like, Can you play Thursday? I'm like, no, thank you very much. And then finally he caught me on a good day and I was like, I'll go play. And I go play, and it was it was pretty ugly. I I banked in a three. I called it. I we had to end the game early because the teams were having a little tussle. So the game ended three minutes early. Oh no. They were 0 and 5. My team was 0 and 5 or whatever prior to that game. And we only lost. We actually were tied, and they hit a shot to go up by two, and then they they called the game. So I said, sorry guys, I was a little part of the issue that caused the game to end. And I said, My bad. But they're like, no, this is the best game we've had.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

So I I played for many years, love basketball. It was, you know, everything growing up. And um wish I could play. I still would love to, but my my knees say otherwise. In fact, my left knee's still jacked up.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

I I used to play, I played for three I played three days a week for five years or so. I never played in high school. I was a wrestler. Yeah. So other side of the mat. But um played with a bunch of guys three days a week. But my problem was I started getting really bad plantar fasciitis and my my calves are super tight. And then one day I shot a basket and tore my tricep tendon. Oh it was like I shot and it was like, oh that oh weird. You shot it were a tricep. That's and and and then I went to dribble and it was like, whoops, what's what what's going on? It didn't hurt, it was just a weird sensation.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

That's what I'm you know, it's it's my knees and my back. If I can keep those okay, like the only thing I need now is golf. And and I lot I my back went out in November and it wasn't really due to golf, like my back is sore because of golf, but it's never like goes out because of golf. But my uh you know, working out is what will you know what will get my back real bad. So if I can keep my knees and my back like decent, yeah, I just need to be able to golf and work out a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I feel that I I totally feel that. I think my problem is I don't play enough golf. Yeah, I play too much golf. Oh, yeah. I'm in that I'm in that space where it's like you play enough to be okay, but you don't play enough not to be sore after you play.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Well, and I overswing it. Let's not talk about your grips. Yeah. Let's not talk about your grips. I overswing. Jan had uh butter on his grips in 1984. Myrtle. I don't know if it was Myrtle or wherever, but I grabbed your grips and I'm like, Yan, and I called Sean. That's right. We were at uh Augusta Ranch. I forgot. It was Augusta Ranch, and I was like, I mean, it was pure like yarn. It was like yarn that was torn and ripped and shredded. And then Jan's like glued it onto his grip. And I'm like, dude, these will these will fly out of your hand in a heartbeat. So we called Sean and you got I got all new grips on my iron.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah, I got all ready. Yeah, all new grips on my irons. And then we went to Myrtle. We went to Myrtle, we know what happened there. And I my driver got video I guess I should have got a new grip on my driver. Yeah. Oh my god, that was bad. Yeah. That was bad.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

That was good.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Yeah, it was fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

That was good. I got a new driver out of it. That's right. That's right. Did you get it for free? Was it Taylor made? Oh no, no, no. Oh no, you you bought it. Yeah, I bought it. Yeah, yeah. No, you deserved it though.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

My driver. So I bought that driver in, let's see, I was 20, 2006.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

You were 20 in 2006?

SPEAKER_02 6:25

No, no, no, no. No, I I I was I was thinking 2020, 2020 20, 2006, I think is when I got it. Cause I was in I was in Denver for a meeting, and I rented a set of clubs at this course course we were playing, and the driver was it was in there. And I was just crushing it. Of course, you're in Denver, right? Yeah, so buying. Oh, yeah. I mean it was good in Denver. Rushing the ball like, I'm buying one of these drivers. And I and this bay was a great driver until it broke in half.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah, we know the rest. Yeah. I got I have content just to prove it.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yes. I think it's now on the interweb. It's it's uh it's there forever. Somewhere. Yeah. So you grew up in Decatur, Illinois. What'd that what'd that look like? What did the environment in Deca Decatur, Illinois teach you growing up?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Decatur's an interesting beast. The there's a few stats about Decatur. What's a home of ADM, Archer Daniels Midland, which is a big soybean processor global, you know, $40 billion company right there in little Decatur, Illinois.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Are they the ones that own the whatever the gematic genetically modified code is that'll make everybody Oh, probably.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

They don't talk about it though. But they've had explosions in their buildings and people have died, and they've polluted the lake.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

So they're doing great for the environment.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, and um, well, that's what they're known for. And there was a a scandal there, price fixing, there was a movie about it. Matt Damon was in it, I believe. So he was indicator. They're known for that as you know, the big company that housed all the jobs. And they also had Staley, another company, and uh Caterpillars nearby there. But it it smells like there's a bridge that goes the bridge goes across basically the the corporate and the manufacturing area where they process all these plants and it stinks, and the whole town kind of stinks. Like what? Like rotten cheese? Like uh like a dirty diaper with yeah, with soybean processed doo-doo in it. I mean, it's it's and you drive across the bridge, and the the drive across the bridge is about 30 seconds, and so we used to hold our breath across the bridge and be like I mean you could barely make it. But and we lived by the other plant in the golf course in the lake, and the lake sunk too. It was a it was a um a dirty lake, it was uh you know, soil was in the lake, and they literally had you know runoff into the lake. Okay, but you know, rock lake's clear and the sand lake is clear. Well, this was a mud lake. So you could see and we lived on the lake for a while, and I mean that's why I have six toes on one foot, and um, but you couldn't see six inches in the water, you couldn't see your hand here in the water because it was so dirty. Gross. And at one point they finally said, Hey, max you can eat three fish a year out of the lake. Because you're gonna poison yourself with something. You know, if you've seen Simpsons and the three-eyed fish, like that's the same thing, and so um it stunk. And so I worked at the golf course, it was right by the other plant, and it it smelled. So anywhere in the town you went, it smelled. We all were like, it smells like money, like we're just pumping money on this bad boy, and that's what that's what they're known for. But the town now they're known for they have a few stats that are not very appealing. Uh, it's it's the most, depending on what you read, it's the most cost-effective city in the country.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Only because it's so cheap to live there. Because it's because no one's everyone's moving out. Population has gone from roughly 120,000 20 years ago to uh about 70,000 now. Wow. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, and so they've haven't done the best with replenishing some of the jobs have moved up to Chicago that were you know ADM and whatever, and they haven't replenished the jobs, and the the school districts are struggling, and you know, they had a board meeting the other night, and you know, people are just like and you know, on social media, like this place stinks. And I'm like, well, a move, like you know, and I love it, you know, but it so I was never going to stay there because I just was like, I want to go experience big city and big things and didn't want to stay there forever. I love it, love the town, um, love the city, uh, you know, have a lot of friends still there, and so you know, definitely look to give back and stay connected and and you know, all that. But they that's Decatur, but it's in the middle, it's three hours south of Chicago. It's the big city surrounded by farmland. So all my buddies are farmers, all my buddies are, you know, funny story. My wife uh is from Iowa, and in Iowa and Illinois, you kind of think, you know, I remember about the same, like same demographic, same soybeans, same corn, same all this and that. And uh the first time she came to visit, we go to a Friday night football game, and all my buddies are there, and we're we're yakking it up and drinking, you know, just hanging out, doing all the things we used to do, and they're all farmers, and and we get done, and we're literally driving back to like my parents or somewhere. And she goes, Where are we? Like it was their accents. Oh, no kidding, like slam and I'm a dang dang. Like, I mean, they I mean, they're they're just they're close to St. Louis, Tennessee. They their accents are very clear, and I was like, Yeah, you're right. I was like, you know, Mike and Mark or Clint or whomever. I'm like, Yeah, they do sound like that. She's like, Where are we? That's awesome. We're in Decatur. Decatur, where are you? I mean, we're three hours south of Chicago. So when I moved to Chicago, I had like a hybrid, I would say like Chicago, but then I'd be like, you know, Bush Light, like in the same sentence. So it was, but Decatur is uh, you know, surrounded by farmland, uh small town people, hard workers, Midwestern. You know, we there wasn't a lot to do, you know, because we grew up in a in a now you're gonna say a small town, but it was a it was a big little I even wrote in my bio like a big small town, yeah, because it just felt that way. And it's so funny because I grew up in a town like 5,000 people.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

It's like that's a small town. There is nothing to do on a Friday night.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

But we were like Chicago was three hours away, St. Louis was two and a half hours away. I mean, we were the city. Yeah, and so when you're the city, it you know, a depleting 120,000 people. That's crazy, you know, you went and partied in the farms and you know, caused trouble.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Some stuff. So like it was so so and and playing sports growing up.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah. I mean, you we lived on sports and getting in trouble. I mean, we we literally would, and I tell my kids, and like when we grew up, we literally we played tackle football in the street. You know, like the street was it was a small street and you know, out of bounds, and like we played tackle football on the street. Yeah, and we played, we lived, you know, I grew up Catholic, and so we lived in what was called the Catholic ghetto. I could throw a stone to the church and to my school, and I hopped the fence and I get in trouble all the time. And there was a bunch of us in this Catholic ghetto, it was basically the vicinity around the school. We all went to the school. There was, you know, age seven to 14, and we'd all play sports and do do the thing. And so we had um we had a foreign exchange program somehow, and we had a kid named Tachi with Tobi. Shout out Tachi, and uh he spoke zero English, his parents spoke zero English, and we'd go out and play baseball and football and all the things, and he was from Japan, I believe, and we hung out with him all the time. He was he was awesome, but didn't speak any English, so we just taught him all the cuss words, and so we and he got Nintendo before six months before we did from Japan. No kidding. So we'd have Nintendo Mario Brothers 3 before anybody. Wow. So we'd be in his house playing Mario Brothers 3, and we taught him all his cuss words, and his parents didn't speak English, so his mama come down and he would just F bomb her, and I mean, and she didn't know what he was saying, and we're dying, like rolling around laughing. And so we're out playing home and derby by the school one day, and again, we're in the Catholic ghetto, not the ghetto, just the Catholic ghetto. And we're playing home and derby one day, and I'm out in right field. Tachi's up to bat, and this was when crisscross was popular, you know, the backwards close and all that jump, yeah. And he's up to bat, and we see these two kids walk up with crisscross jerseys, oh no, backwards pants. They're just walking, but I'm in right field, kind of like, hmm. They walk up, walk up straight to Tachi, and I'm like, oh no, this is not gonna be good. And so I can't hear what they're saying, they're just you know, and one of the guys pulls out a gun no way and puts it right to Tachi's head, and I'm like, and he's dead honest for it. Wow, and um, and I'm like, you know, and it lasts for six hours, it feels like it was probably 10 seconds, yeah. And they finally, you know, walk away and kind of leave, and I I I backpedal and I'm like, and I turn on sprint home and I go, I'm like, mom, I saw a gun today. She's like, what? And so all the parents in the neighborhood, you know, were calling each other. They didn't couldn't text, but they were like dialing everyone, and like nothing came out of it. But they lived the in an apartment complex, kind of kitty corner to where we were at. But you know, that was just us being in the, you know, playing every we play every single day. And I tell, I tell my kids, I'm like, you know, you need to go out and have like healthy trouble, maybe not guns, but you know, other healthy trouble, go, you know, do all the things. And that that's what we did. I mean, in a in a town, city like that, we had a tight, tight knit at that time, Catholic ghetto, and and you know, all the families were super close, and we grew up together, went to grade school together, went to high school together, and so it was just super tight knit family oriented uh, you know. Yeah, but yeah, sports were like the backbone, like we just played everything. Yeah, you know, from four on, it was basketball, baseball, soccer, football, like all the things. How how many kids were in your high school?

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Or like your graduated school?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Three thirty. Okay. And now they're down to under 200.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

So my graduating class was 72. Oh, okay. Yeah, and the in the grade school had it was a private school.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Yeah, private, so yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Catholic. Get that in there. Yeah, make sure. Yeah, hail Mary's. Did you have the nuns? They hit trades. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

We had three, yeah, a couple nuns in grade school, and then and and they were, you know, God bless them, they're long gone. Like they were 90 when they were teaching us. Yeah, and like, you know, we would be cheating, and she'd come over, and I'm like, Oh, I'm not doing anything, like, I'm just taking my tests, like and they, you know, they were ancient then. I mean, they'd be 180 now. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

I had an English teacher that I thought was oh yeah, stupid old when I was in high school. Yeah. And I was back home. This is probably a couple years ago, a couple few years ago, and uh was at a retirement party for one of the administrators from the high school. I was I wasn't in town for that. I had gone and visited somebody, and then they're like, Hey, you should come up, everybody's gonna be there. So, of course, it's a small town because everybody's gonna be there. So and this Mrs. Stone was there, and I'm like looking at her thinking, How the hell are you still alive? Like, I swear to God, she was 80 years old when we were in school. So, and 40 years later, and you're like, Holy crap!

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Yeah, and it was Catholic as it gets. I mean, you couldn't, you know, and my parent, I mean, our house was a stone throw from the school. So I got in trouble one time, and won't say exactly what I did, but it was definitely not called for, and within minutes, my mom was at the school. Yeah, minutes, and I'm sitting in the in the principal's office, and she was a nun. Your mom? No, no, yeah, my mom was a nun. Yeah, no, the the uh nun was a principal and she was at the school within minutes. Like you couldn't do anything, yeah, you couldn't breathe wrong. Huh.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah, crazy, yeah. When you think back on your younger self, what what what's what's a lesson you think you learned that you carry forward to today that helps with some of your success?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, I think it was you know, we can all be critical of our parents or things that happened or didn't happen, but I think I think the fact that my family, my extended family, was well, very connected in the community. My grandfather was a prominent business leader, gave a lot of money, had numerous businesses. He was very crafty. I remember one I I looked up to him and I spent a lot of time with him, but he was also that type of guy that like he didn't have time for, you know, he didn't have time for me. Like he was he was cool and he would, you know, ask me about stuff, but he was like he didn't have time for kids or he was very busy, but I I I could walk into a Knights of Columbus, which is a Catholic men's organization, and he was a grand knight. He met the Pope like five times.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Did you have one of those pointy hats? He did.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, he I yeah, he did. The white one. Yeah, yeah. He was a grand knight, which I think is like the highest you can be in Knights of Columbus globally. And the Knights of Columbus was basically a men's private organization that you go drink beer at.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Can you still do that today?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Or yeah, the women well no, you they still had Knights of Columbus. I was like a third degree, whatever. I haven't really done it in a while, so I don't know if it might actually maybe fact-check that, see if my standing is still good. But they um you you could uh it was a Catholic men's organization, and you basically oh, they they had a bar there. Say that they had a they had a they had tons of events, weddings, and they had a bar there. Well, now today they don't want to recognize drinking, so the bar technically is separate. It gets a separate name, separate business, you know, woke stuff. I mean, that was the fabric of you know, being part of the organization was you'd go there with your family, the guys, the men would go there every night after work. Like my grandpa and his buddies, they'd be there every night after work. Um, but it that was part of the fabric of the community and being a Catholic organization, and I've since been non-denominational like a lot of us, but it was great because it was like it was so in you know, rooted in your family, and you you know you went there every St. Patrick's Day, and you you had family and friends, and but anyways, um because of him and that we were so connected in the community, I couldn't go to the grocery store without it being a two-hour ordeal because we would run into everyone we knew. And when you're in seventh grade, that there's nothing worse than that. Yeah, I'm like, can we get through the damn vegetable aisle without stopping and talking about 30 minutes? I'm like, what and so we knew everybody, and so when at that age you don't appreciate it, you just know if you're in if you get in trouble, someone's gonna know immediately and you're toast. So you always had to be in your P's and Q's. So it really taught you about you know, relationships and community and giving back, and we we gave back a lot. Like my my grandfather started Special Olympics in Illinois, and so we would always volunteer at Special Olympics, Catholic organizations like the university, like we were very, very active in that. And I'm sure we'll get to it later, but that's what I kind of missed is not the small community, but just being part of a community, and so it really put a lot of pressure on me to show up. Up, you know, be your best, you know, work hard, be a good person. And I push the line a lot with like my antics. Yeah, but I always knew for the most part where the line was and what I could push and not like when I went to my buddy's house, I'd always go see their parents, say hi, Mr. and Mrs. Smith or whomever, and always would butter up to them because I knew You're like Eddie Haskell. Yeah, exactly. Because I'm like, I knew if they're like, oh, that bleef neck boy had one would be like he's troubled, but we kind of like him. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So it was always that in the back of my mind to say, hey, and we, you know, no one is off limits, you know, in this town. And so we always had to be, you know, good representation. But my grandpa also said, C's get degrees. He didn't care what my grades were. That's great. He wanted me to graduate and he wanted me to, you know, be an entrepreneur, be in sales, be successful. So I think the other, the other side of the coin is it was like I wasn't gonna be a teacher, or it was like sales. I had a basketball coach in the family, entrepreneurs. It was like, which was fine by me, you know, but they were like, hey, you know, they pushed success hard. So it was like, you know, Midwest family, you know, hard work, yeah, play hard, work hard type environment, which you know was great.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Was was there a time in in high school when you were going through sports and stuff like that where you felt like you were just done, like didn't fit in any more so or did you ever fit in?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Did I ever fit in? No, I mean I guess you'd have to ask them if I knew right. So there was twice, if not many more, but um in uh I had early diagnosed like ADD as a kid and then depression, and so it I know it vividly happened in seventh grade. There was a uh there there was a uh science project, shout out Miss Burris. Okay. If she listens, I'll try not to use names in this, but shout out Miss Burris. Okay, I'm sure she'll tune in. Everybody is, so and so she was a science teacher, and we had this year-long project, and I remember not doing any of it until the day before. Oh, no way, and and it was like I ended up getting a D on it or D minus or something, and I remember working all night, I didn't sleep. And at that age, if you don't sleep, like you there's no coming back, and I stayed up all night to do the project, it turned in some garbage project, and at that point I was like, man, you know, that was a real struggle because I just lost complete sense of scheduling or planning or prioritizing. I probably blame my parents, but I I absolutely flopped on that project. And prior to that, I was straight A's. Like I was um, we used to do the Iowa test of basic skills. Okay. I don't know how Iowa got recognition. In Illinois, in Illinois, but they had a national test, you know, that you, you know, you rank everybody, and you know, I was top one percent always in you know, math and a few categories, but you know, reading and whatever, I was you know, bottom 20%. Like I couldn't, I couldn't couldn't read, couldn't read real well. But math was off the charts, and then seventh grade, yeah. I've I flopped on that project, and then you know, I had I had been to get some help with um you know ADD and depression. I was seeing counselor, and it was it came to it came like fruition at a young age that I was like, you know, this is this is a struggle, and so you I got put on you know Zoloft and a bunch of at that time they were just you know give you whatever pills they could find. It was like Zoloft Paxel and and they're like there's some side effects to this, so but you're gonna focus better. And that's that stuff for me personally. It I remember being like seventh, eighth grade, I'm like, it took my edge off. I was like, it took my edge off. I mean, because that those medications, you know, they they do, they dull you, yeah. They completely dull you. Um, and then fast forward many, many, many many years later. Now they have tests where they can see, you know, you take a uh you know, take one test and it will show you all of the prescriptions and which ones your body will vibe with. Gotcha. Interesting. And so when I took that years later, it showed that Zoloff's Paxel were no bueno. And so when I took them and I was on several, I was like, oh, I was like a zombie. Yeah. And I literally was like, I'd rather deal with this than feel like a zombie. Yeah. And so um, you know, it was it was it was a struggle then to like, and it wasn't about like get it, you know, blending in or whatever, you know, but it was more this the the struggle in my head of like doing well in school. But I was just bored. Yeah, I just didn't like none of it was exciting. You know, I just was bored. And um, I was smart, like I could have tested well, but I can't it would take me six weeks, eight weeks, two years to read a book. And I was like, I can't, you know, I got like a two-minute window where I'm like, okay, I can really focus here, and then what's that? And it just it you know came to fruition. But then traditional schooling was hey, you're gonna fit in this box, and you're gonna take these classes, and you know, you're a troublemaker and you're not gonna make it. And I was like, whatever. Like it never bothered me once. I was like, okay, like I'm so bored, like right, why don't you, yeah, we'll see you.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

I was the same way, like I I could never, I shouldn't say I couldn't read. I just was not a fast reader. So I was like, I you know, I was in lighthouses, and everybody else was in, I don't know what four books ahead of lighthouses was, but what's lighthouse? Oh, it's like you know, one of those reading books, you know, they give you it's like yeah, no, I no, I just I could not do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

And um, you know, I was in honors classes here and there, but it was, you know, and then then I just started like goofing off, you know, um in school, got in enough trouble, a couple suspensions and things like that, that nothing terrible, but enough that you know, teachers were like tisk, tisk. And I was like, whatever, like I don't really care. But I didn't every time I got in trouble, it was more like it got up to my parents and to my grandpa, and that's what bothered me more is like I just I didn't want to get in trouble. Yeah, you know, and so that's that's where you know it carried on. Then my mom, and so everyone from the Catholic schools, grade school goes to Catholic high school, and so I'm literally in eighth grade, like getting ready to go to high school, and I forget exactly when it was, but my mom at the time she had been on radio and done a couple different things, and then I think at the time she was unemployed because my dad was working, and she goes, she kind of was like, Hey, got a big announcement, and I was like, Okay, do tell. She's like, I got a job, and I'm like, Oh, that's great. Bring in the cheddar, and she's like, I'm gonna be working at your high school, and I was like, Oh, hell no. No, oh hell, no, we are not doing this. I was like, No, I I literally was like, You're there's no way that you're gonna do this to me. Yeah, I was I was and she got a job as not a teacher, she was like a uh lunch lady, they're lunch lady like you want some more mashed potatoes? Like, no, she was like the fundraiser uh person, like a PTSO person or something. No, she was like the the head of fundraising, like not PTO. She was she did all the events, all the all the things, and I got lunch money every day, but that was about it. And when I got in trouble high school, she knew before I did, she knew before I even did it.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah. Was it was there anybody through school? You've you've mentioned a couple teachers and your mom and your grandfather. Is there anybody that kind of took you by the collar and said you should straighten up because you're not gonna go anywhere?

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

You know, not that you listen to, not that I yeah, I was like, whatever. Now, gosh. Well, my my I mean, I was a basketball as my main sport, and you did D1 there, right? Oh yeah, no, I did D three. I put that in my I was like a very short mediocre D3 career. I saw that. Yeah, I was uh basketball. What is D three? Was that like community college? No, that's that's uh I guess a step up from community college. Uh D three is division three athletics. I played two sports. Is that NCIA, uh N A I A. I don't know, NAIA is probably equivalent, I guess. Yeah. Um, I had a basketball coach that he was 23 when he took over and I was a freshman, and he he was a great, great basketball player, a very young coach, and he took over as a freshman when the coach the prior coach was was everyone looked up to him. He was outstanding, like loved by everybody. He had just had like a super sectional team with a couple guys that went on to play college basketball. He kind of he didn't recruit me because I was gonna go there anyways, but games, and you know, I was I was a good ball player, and I was so pumped to play for him. And then when I went into into school, he was he had left. So they hired this 23-year-old guy, um, named Coach Tidwell, and he was a absolute, like your epitome of a small town Illinois, like Hoosier type basketball player. And long story short, he just pushed the absolute shit out of us, like from day one. And he he didn't drink, he was very religious, didn't date. It was a hundred percent basketball. Oh wow. So much so that at one point, I think my mom had introduced him to he did, I don't think he dated either. My mom introduced him to someone, and he and for their first date, he took him to the school to play basketball. I was like, this idiot. Like, what are you doing? Dude, what girl wants to, yeah. Right. I like I'm betting you didn't get to second base or a second date. No, he didn't. But he he just pushed us. So I can't say he definitely didn't take me under his wing, but he he he pushed you and showed you how to be a ball player, and that was all I cared about. Yeah, you know, and so we struggled every year because no one wanted to play for him, so much so that my sophomore year, you know, I I was starting as a sophomore. We had two seniors and we had a small team, you know, small school. We had two seniors and a junior, maybe, or maybe two and two, or whatever, small, you know, senior team of seniors and juniors. And you know, we were we were decent, but um, we had to run one night like a hundred down and backs, like literally a hundred. I lost count after 82. I was like, this is a and um and four guys walked off the court. They were like, done, screw this, I'm done. Yeah, like are you coming with us? I'm like, no, like I'm playing basketball, dude. Like, no, I'm not walking in this. I'm in this. Yeah. And so we were already, oh, it was our best player. He was a senior, he was averaging 20 points a game, and another guy and a third guy that was pretty good. And then the next night or two nights later, we play the best team in the conference, and they had or they had just beaten the best team by like 20. And so they came in to play us, and um, you know, we we beat them. I had you know, 20, 12, and 10 or whatever, and my my coach who was he was crying, he was crying because we had won after these guys had quit. And so it's like it's just one of those moments that I'm not one of those, I'm not one to be like, oh, remember high school and we beat you guys, but it was one of those moments where you know it'll stick with it. Shit happened and you you beat it, and then you know, your your coach cried when you never would have thought that could happen. And um, so you know, a small school like that, you have your football coaches and your basketball coach. I you know, had an English teacher that, you know, so when you talk about like those those moments, my senior year. So I was I was in basketball was my my thing, like through and through. I'd go to the YMCA and play six hours you know in a day. And and I I wasn't I was uh not the best player there. And you know, the the we had um some other we had some schools that had some super talented guys, and I was you know not the majority out of that group. And so I would just go and just try and get on the court. And these guys were you know incredible, and they were, you know, it was like street ball. Yeah, it was just street ball. And so if I got on, I had to fight tooth and nail to stay on the court, like set screens, rebound, you know, whatever I could do to get on the court, um, just to earn my keep. And you know, but I'd play and play and play, you know, summer, winter, like all the time. Basketball is it. And so fast forward my senior year, it was one of those moments. I had uh gone out with some friends and we had uh smashed the mailboxes. And um my friends were at the the small public school outside of the town, and they got caught, I got caught, I was suspended for half the season. Oh wow, they got one game, no kidding, and I had and I was like, you know, it was one of those moments where it defined kind of what my my high school was to some degree, and I had to sit out half the season. Like so in your senior season for basketball, that's everything. Yeah, and in a small town where I was, you know, one of the better players in the area of the conference, and I'd had a good sophomore year, junior year. I was looking at colleges, I mean, nothing D1, but you know, D2 or whatever. And um, that happened. And so that was the other moment back to your earlier question about I don't know, defining moments or things that happened that you know, it is what it is, and that crippled my senior year of basketball, but it also was one of those moments where I was like, I will never make that kind of catastrophic um mistake again. Yeah, and it was it was hard. I mean, it was I'd already battled my own personal demons, my own personal issues. That happened and it was devastating for like a week. But I showed up at practice, you know, I I played every practice because I couldn't play the games, I could practice, and I still was there. We had a couple good ball players on the team, and I could play the last what five games of the season and and then playoffs, but I still want to be there for the team because legacy matters for me, and I was like, I'm I'm not gonna be defined by one mistake, so I wanted to give it all, you know, to my team, and we had a different coach as my senior year, and and he's a great, great guy. And I was like, I'm not gonna go down like this, you know. I'm gonna I'm gonna work hard and you know practice and make this team as best as I can to leave it, you know, where I um better than I left it.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

And it means it was freaking hard because like that was why I spent the school's choice to be oh yeah, it wasn't it wasn't like the athletic school.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah, yeah, it was the athletic director. Uh of the school. Yeah. So they they had some policy, you know, drugs, alcohol, whatever it was. If if you do this within this box, then you're you're out for whatever whatever it was. It turned out to be in half the season. That's crazy. Yeah. And so and so during that time, too, my senior year, we had had it was like our second to third, last game of the season. The anniversary just happened recently, but we played a tough game on the road, and um, we were coming off the court, and um, you know, I was looking in the crowd, and you know, there were tears, and people were crying, and it was just like a look across, and I'm like, what in the we lost a game like it's not that big of a deal. We get in a locker room. My coach kind of stuttered and stumbled over his words, and he's like, Hey, there was um you know, suicide, and um, it was one of my best friends. No kidding. Yeah, oh my god, yeah, and so that happened senior year, and it um it just rocked the school. He was one of the guys, he was one of the one of my buddies in my Catholic ghetto. Okay. So I grew up with him since we were like four, you know, four or five years old. And so not only had I, you know, hurt myself by getting in trouble and running my senior season, but then that happened, you know, at the very end of the season, you know, and it it it it was a whole school kind of lock in arms and and um to get through it. And and it turned out to be the whole community, like the whole city, you know, there was another suicide after that and a third. So it had set off like a trickle effect, and and I had had some really close relationships, kind of lock arms because of it. But yeah, I mean, that was a tough, a tough window, yeah, you know, where I was like, I'm never gonna put myself in a position where I screw up like that. It sounds silly, but I'd made some mistakes and I gotten away with it to some degree, like nothing harmful. And then that I was like, damn, yeah, really now it I I look back and I'm like, it was a great, is a learning lesson. Yeah, and I think it set the trajectory for my how I want to evolve, right? Versus I'm I'm still gonna be me, but I don't need to do that. Yeah, like I'm I'm I don't want to ever do that for myself, for my kids, for my family. Like, you know, it was ugly for a minute, but yeah, I mean, sometimes people are like, Oh yeah, I remember when you bat. I'm like, yeah, bro, like I remember, but like any like yeah, get over it.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Yeah. How how I have a question I'm trying to formulate in my head. You know, as a kid, I mean, I just think about you know, some of my my best friends growing up, which I'm still friends with today. But being in that situation, I'll just kind of digress for a second. But how do you how how did you deal with that? I mean, was it the community that kind of helped you through that?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Because I could only imagine just get in a waller and there's nothing that can prepare you for that. No, yeah, and and I had already battled my own demons for a few years before that. You said you had depression issues. Yeah, I was it, yeah. So I I'd already seen counseling and done all the things before it was, you know, jokingly before it was cool. And I'm glad that mental health has has been front-facing in society. I think it's changed a lot recently, which maybe we'll get to, but I think I'm glad it's I'm glad it's there. I'm glad that people can address it, be aware of it, diagnose it, do all the things, but there's nothing that can prepare you as a kid for depression. Yeah. And then dealing with your friend's suicide. Yeah. Because in there was zero no telltale signs. In fact, one of our buddies dropped him off after school that day, and they chatted, no big deal. He's like, I there was nothing. He went inside, and the rest is history after that. And to this day, I'll still text with his dad. Yeah. And they they and they're you know, you want to talk about you know, overcoming adversity or character, his parents are like amazing. They started a suicide group, they're just saints. That's his brother is salt of the earth, like genuine ass dude. That's cool, and his dad is salt of the earth, and so there's nothing that can prepare you for that. Yeah, even when it happens, there's like you're at you're at the mercy of whatever. Yeah, so there's things you can do. I mean, it was really I literally, you know, one of my friends, her boyfriend at the time was the second suicide, and we became super tight. You know, misery loves company to some degree. And so we kind of formulated me and my buddies that were really close with him. His name was Jared Worm. Shout out Worm. But they get they like they went and got tattoos. I didn't get a tattoo, they got a tattoo of a big son. Oh, yeah. Years later, they're like, Why do we do this? It was a big son with a 50, 50 was his football number, but um, they got tattoos. I was like, I'm okay on the tattoo, but you know, we're in this, and so we we hung out, we listened to songs, we drank beer, which shouldn't have, but we did lots of things. We just we're Catholic. We're like, we just were locking arms. They got bars in the churches, yeah. Oh, amen. They got wine, they serve wine. I was like, look, look, like, give me some more. You want to go for seconds? We'll take some of that. I will participate. Yeah. So we we just, I mean, there was a small, there was a group of us that were really tight with him, like football guys and then the the neighborhood guys. We just locked arms. There was a couple songs that were like resonated with him. So we'd listen to listen to the songs, drive around town, you know, hang out, go to parties, like do all the things, and then my other friend, her her boyfriend or ex-boyfriend at the time had uh you know committed suicide. So there was a there was a group in the community of people, but you literally just remember like we would we would fist fight all the time and play football and then spend the night at his house. And so the funny story, so talking about his dad, we would spend the night at his house. This is why I love his dad. I'll I'll tell him this a couple times a year. I'm like, he his dad, he made him do a paper route. You know, you ever do a paper route? You have a play to do a paper route?

SPEAKER_02 44:28

My brother did. I I helped him on it a couple of times. In the middle of the freaking winter in the world would do a paper route, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

I mean, you get up at 4 a.m. You gotta fold the papers, they'd give you the paper, and then you're hanging out of a you know minivan with a sliding door, slinging we were riding bikes. No, well, yeah, bikes or his family had a Dodge caravan with a sliding door, and so you know he had to do a paper route, and I'm like, that sucks to be you. Yeah, and and I'd go spend the night at their house, and his dad was. Was a former police officer, and he's like, Hey, MFR, you're getting up at four doing the paper out with us. No way. Oh, yeah. That's we get up and do the paper out with him.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

No kidding.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Yeah. But it's awesome. You know. So that you know, that kind of stuff got us through it. And you know, I mean, I did counseling and did other legal drugs and some illegal. But, you know, I mean, there were times where it was really dark in high school. Yeah. And, you know, in in high school, you're dealing with a lot of issues. I think kids these days you have to deal with different issues. But, you know, you're you just deal with all you can. I mean, there were times where I didn't deal with it well. I remember I had, you know, drank the night before school, and I got to school and I was, you know, a wreck, and I was, and it was, you know, it was it was just something that you look back on and you're like, man, I that was another mistake I got away with that you know could have been ugly. So I don't know that I dealt dealt with it well necessarily, but you know, you just you don't know what to do. There's no book for that for how to get through that. But it's you know, it's relationships and it's um, you know, locking on to what you know, and that was like basketball and sports and you know working through it.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah. How do you how do you think some of those lessons learned then translate to today and keep things going and keep you on the level today?

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yeah, I mean, I I think it's just the will to my well now, it's my wife and my kids. You know, I mean, back then it was friends and you know, family, and now it's my wife and kids, and it's you know, l, you know, learning from mistakes. I think people people often will ask, like, do you have any regrets? And I think it's easy for everyone to say, I don't know, I don't have any regrets, you know. And I I think do I regret the trouble I got in? Yeah, I kind of regret it, but everything is, you know, gonna help help you get better. Everything's a learning lesson, everything, and you can't do anything about it. So why worry about it? Yeah, like there's nothing I can do about five seconds ago, five minutes ago, five years ago. Like it's it's in the past. There's nothing I can do about it. And that was a hard lesson because I think missing out on my basketball season was like that was a regret. I I hung on that for a while, and then I I did play in college a little bit, but it just wasn't the same because you know I I had um could I have done something different or whatever? But yeah, now you just there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, like whatever happened, it there's nothing you can do.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Learn from it.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Fast forwarding into today's day and age, you've worked with what sounds like some pretty large companies doing some recruiting for them. Yeah, any of any of the work that you did, or any of the school that you did, any of the lessons that you learned in school help you to navigate some of the competitiveness, or have you had to lean on your comp competitiveness to get through some of that?

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Yeah, I I think that I mean, I was an athlete, and so it's easy for companies to say, I want to hire an athlete because they're competitive. It doesn't always work like that. There's there's a lot of misconception about a lot of things. That's one of them, is that hiring athletes translates into business success, and it doesn't. Like athlete for athletes to transfer, you know, you're a great quarterback, you're a great point guard, like to transfer a an athletic skill into business doesn't always work. But I think that the my my mentality too is I think an easy question that a lot of people get is do you love to win or do you hate to lose? And I'm a hate to lose person. Like I hate to lose. If I win a big game, if I win a championship, if I win whatever, like I'll celebrate for a minute or two. I'll celebrate with my team, you know, because if they win, that's great. I want them to win, but I hate to lose. Yeah. And I'm I'm while they're competitive in that, you know, I'll I'll bite, scrape, claw, whatever I have to do.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Like when you go into pickleball court, do you play pickleball? Yeah, oh yeah. You play pickleball.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Yeah. No, I I uh yeah, I immediately am like very critical, like go away golf. So, you know, people like I'm a decent golfer, and so people like, oh, I'm terrible. Like, I I can't play with you. I'm like, no, no. If you you know, drink beer, play fast, like play music, yeah. Like, let's do it. I am uber competitive in my head against yourself. Against myself, yeah. I won't let it show. I used to have a bad anger issue with golf, but like my dad did, and but now you know I'm super competitive, even if it's a casual game, and I and I can I can play with anyone. Like, I don't I don't care. You're terrible, you're great, let's have fun, you know, crack some beer, play some music, but I'm uber competitive when it comes to anything. If you want to yeah, play pickleball or whatever, like it's let's grind, let's do it. Let's do it. I hate, I hate it. But I hate losing the same way, and it's like, and so I tell my kids, I'm like, like that's what pushed me is like my buddies. I'm like, I know that you know, Josh or Bubba or those are real real guys, I know they're out practicing right now. And if I'm not practicing, like they're gonna beat me. And so I would practice for three hours, and I'd be like, Oh, this is my last shot. And I'm like, no, because if they're taking one more shot right now, if they're playing and they're taking one more shot, two more shots, three more shots, I'll take five more. So I was like, that's what pushed me. At times it's probably unhealthy. I probably need to celebrate the wins more, and I certainly need to do that for my kids. Yeah, but it's it's you know, it's what pushes, it's what pushes me. But but yeah, it's your you know, about working in corporate. And um, you know, when I when I was in college, I went to a couple different schools, but I went to uh another division three school, hung out with the basketball guys and soccer guys and all the athletes. And I went to school for management, like made I made up a major. My major was interdepartmental. It was like business, business management, communication. I was like, I'm going into sales, I'm gonna go into management. Like, I don't, there's no degree for that. So I want to do communication. And one of the guys I was good friends with, he graduated a year before me, and he went off to go work somewhere. And then we caught up at uh homecoming. He was like, Hey, come work for me or come work with me. I'm like, Bet. I'm like, if you're working there, he's my good friends, you know, great basketball player, just someone I looked up to and was a good friend. So I went to work with them, and then I was there 16 years. Wow. Yeah. So goes back to like the relationships and I mean hanging around people that you know you want to be with. Um, there's a one of the guys from I think he's from Sopranos, I think, or I forget his name, but there's a cool podcast he's on, and and he's you know, he's Italian, he's like, he's you know, he's like, hey, all you need, this is where he's like, all you need is three MFers and you can take on anyone. Yeah. And it's a cool clip because it's super powerful that you know, if you have a close, small group, you can conquer anything. Yeah. And so he went to work for the this company called Aerotech as a staffing company, and you start as a recruiter, you move into sales, and you know, I always wanted to be in sales and leadership. And so you go, you went there and they promised promotion and equity and stock and leadership opportunity. You could retire at 40 and all those kind of things. And um, yeah, I it was it was amazing. We we went there and you know, we worked as a 22-year-old, I was working 70 hours a week. Dang. And so we'd work 7 a.m. till 6, 7 p.m. And then we'd crack some beers in the office, we'd go out and party, and we'd stay out, you know, two, three, four nights a week. Sometimes we'd sleep in our cars. We we we we'd go out all night, we'd come back, we'd switch ties if we were in the same clothes. Yeah, so it didn't look like we were in the same clothes from the night before, and then we'd get back out at 7 a.m. Wow. And so it was a super competitive recruiting stuff, yeah. Okay, it was recruiting. So we were basically temp staffing. Okay. So we'd place people at companies on like a temporary basis and they'd work there, you know, like full-time hours, and then we built up a book of business. It was commission, bonus, like you know, great pay opportunity. And we but it was an environment where it was it was very much a boys' club for a while. Yeah. And then we started to be like, hey, we need diversity, we need female leadership, like we need to can't be boys' club forever, which was which was great, a great thing we needed to do. But it was always work hard, play hard, tons of promotion opportunity. And so um, yeah, I worked there for 16 years, you know, I ran a couple big operations. I had close to 70 million in sales one year for the operation I ran. I had you know, 55, 60 people working for me. Wow, yeah. And I did HR, I did sales, I did hiring, I did all the things. And, you know, we were fortunate enough to be like office of the year one year, and I was director of the year one year in a in a you know in a super competitive environment. So it was like the peak of true leadership where you get to run everything. You know, everything good is on you, everything bad is on you. But I didn't, I'm not, I don't like the accolades as much. Like it was about the team and the people. And you know, whenever we had promotions, right? So when you're a recruiter, you get promoted to sales, whenever we had promotions, I would invite in their parents because they're typically like 22, 23, 24, a lot of them. And so their parents are still like very involved, right, in their life. And I I was a director at like 28, 29, but whenever we promoted someone, I would get their parents, you know, information and I'd call them and have them come in for the promotion. And so I I'm not I'm not super emotional. I don't like, but when I promote someone, balling.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

I'm like oh yeah. That's funny. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

And so we bring their parents in, and I'm like, hey, your son or daughter means because I always told them when I hired them, like, I'm going to treat you like I would my son. I tough love, lots of you know, care. I'm gonna push you. I'm gonna assume your parents push you, I'm gonna assume they loved you, I'm gonna assume that they challenge you. I'm gonna do the same. And I would then to reciprocate, I'd invite their parents in, you know, when we would promote them, and to see their parents, you know, see them promoted, I'd lose it within like one second. I can't even get a word out of it.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

I'm not kidding. That's too funny. God's promoted. Like that's too funny. Yeah. What you you bring up leadership? Has your we'll call it a definition of leadership changed from then to now over the years? Sorry, I should I should write.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

No. But leadership in corporate America has changed drastically. Okay. So back then it was work hard, care for your people, promote them, hit your numbers. We expect attrition, you know, because not everyone's a good fit. And so my expectation was I'm gonna treat you like I would my kids. And I'm gonna I was a I was a heavy hand. Well, I'll back up because when I got promoted from recruiter into a sales role, you share an office with someone else, usually someone older that's like a mentor. And I I share an office with Phil. Shout out Phil. Still talk to Phil this day. And he was a he was grumpy every day. And um, you know, I would flip the curtains up just to aggravate him, and I would I'd cold call, and you know, but I was, I mean, you know, I I have a jovial attitude and joke a lot, and he I remember he was like, Hey, people like you, but do they respect you? And I was like, you mother, like how dare you challenge me. But like from that day, you know, I I changed, I changed my mentality on how I was gonna show up every day. And so I became very like a hard driver and very like I was gonna outwork anyone. And I was like, I know I if I outwork everyone, my systems and processes too, I'm gonna crush it, both personally and you know, my team, or if I get promoted. I was like, I know, you know, if I can take his advice, take his feedback, and have the place take me a little little more serious, but not lose my personality. Like I could, you know, I could do great things.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Have you ever had a situation as a leader where you did something that you wish you could go back and change? Yeah, for sure. That's it. That's it. I guess it was a close-ended question, wasn't it? It was a very close-ended question.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Yeah, baiting you into that. Care to share? Yeah, I mean, there was certainly there was certainly one or two times where I let someone's decision affect me personally, and I took it to an extreme. You know, I had someone lie once that I mean I knew they were lying, and I gave them five opportunities to tell the truth, and they didn't, and I kind of held it against them too long, or I should have probably forgave them. I just took it so personal. I'm like, how could you lie to me? Yeah, when I know you were lying. Like one of my kids lied the other day, and I'm like, I'm like, you know, when I ask you this question, you know you're already busted, right? And he just kept up with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

Hey, you got you gotta admire the commitment.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

I was like, bro, I was like, listen, I'm gonna give you one more chance to tell me the truth. Otherwise, and now my threats are like, we're gonna do sprints or we're gonna do whatever. And I'll like, I'll give you one more chance to tell me the truth. Cold plunge in the pool for five minutes. Yeah, and I was like, cold plunge and laps and push-ups and you know, what did you say a hundred a hundred uh suicides? A hundred suicides, yeah. We called them five three ones. It was like five down and backs, three down and backs, one down and back, and you had to do them all timed. Oh wow. And we had one dude on our team that was you know 270 and 6'5, and sucked. I was like, bro, he is never gonna leave this time. We're gonna die because of him. I was like, can we extend the time a little bit? That's too funny. So yeah, there was a few times where I got overly emotional in their decision, and I probably could have let up, or I always, you know, my intent was always the the best for them, whether it was tough love or accountability or you know, write-ups or like whatever it was, I always was just trying to do the best for them. But I think a few many well enough times it it it was probably immature, yeah. You know, because I was like, you know, and this is how leadership has evolved back in the day. It was do what I say, do it like this, and I'm gonna check in on make sure it was done. I think that was 80% of leadership back in the day, you know, but it it was also with love and like relationship and all the things, but it was very much do this, do it as I say, you know, do it the right way. And now I think this is parenting, leadership. I think it's tough. Like if you're in a corporate environment now, leadership's very tough. Yeah. Because there's remote work, there's lack of loyalty, there's lack of loyalty from the company. And so I think leadership has changed in corporate environment, but mine, you know, at its core is still about and people ask what comes first, relationships or performance? So what is it?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

Well, I would say relationships.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

Why not both?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Well, you see, you asked for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

If if you if you if you're if you're a relationship only person, they're gonna go, well, I thought we were friends, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

But but yeah, but you still need to but the business makes decisions, not me. So the business has the in my mind, the way I run my business is I work for the business.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:44

The business has a mind of its own, the business has to do a job. Well, that sounds like are you are we speaking? Yeah, are you in the clouds or waiting to the business? Yeah, well, it is, but but but I may get emotionally attached to an individual, but I have to make a decision based on what's right for the business. So it's it's being able to remove the emotional hat and put on the logic hat and say, okay. So so to me it's relationship first, but obviously performance is a key metric, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:14

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

So well, I look sometimes. My hands are tied. I'm like, if you haven't performed for X amount of time, like you like them tied, yeah, absolutely. Depends if it's the front or back. Sometimes over my head. Rachel. Rachel. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

He shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Umbody will be sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Okay, so so it it becomes this, you know, I'm gonna help you. This is where it evolved. Is like and it's showed up in different facets. And like, if I make you do A, B, and C because that's what I want, I'm missing the boat. Right? You may not want what I want.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Right. And so I'm like, what do you want? Like, what what's your end goal? Yeah, what's your end game? There's certain things that aren't gonna change. Like, we were a performance-based company, we were in engineering, we were we were sales and performance-based. So there's certain things that numbers you have to do. Yeah, and even I challenge the system, and that's why I end up leaving, was because the system, I was like, there's better ways to do this um while still hitting our numbers. There's just certain things you have to do. It's in the fabric of like, hey, we have to grow as a business. Yeah, outside of that, what do you want to do? What's your future role? What are your goals? How much money do you want to make? I had I had a guy that was like a top performer for years, and he was he was wild because he was a tough cookie. Because I I had to call HR on him several times. I'm like, I'm gonna go have a conversation with this guy, he's gonna use it against me, he's going to like finagle or like, you know, he just was always finagling. But one of them was he's like, I only want to make X amount of dollars this year so that uh I don't have to pay more taxes. I'm like, Do you know how taxes work? I'm like, Do you think I'm gonna submit your numbers and say, hey, he's not gonna grow this year? Right. Well, how's that gonna look for me? I'm like, do you know how taxes work? So you you run into conversations like that, and it's like, so the I think leadership now is also about question-based leadership. So expand on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

How do you balance the performance metrics with the human aspect of it or the human element? How how do you how do you when you because because you're working with uh and a lot of what you do is human capital stuff then and even pulling forward to today, in my understanding of what you're doing, how how do you balance that where it's like okay, we have these metrics, yeah, right? But oh, you don't like the color of this carpet, so you want to work at home.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Yeah. I mean, it goes back to you know, relationship and performance. I mean, uh, you know, relationships in business, relationships haven't changed. How they're done and executed has changed drastically. You know, when we worked in an office, I could sit next to you and go, hey, let me see your call sheet. Let me let me watch a call, let me let me shadow it, let me coach you. Like I could sit down and watch you work for eight hours a day, and I could give you really good feedback. And you can see I'm only working two and a half, and I can see you're only working two and a half, and you're on YouTube too much, calling your girlfriend, texting your girlfriend. But yeah, when you could when you can sit next to someone, it's it's different. Now there's remote work, but it's it's relationships. Relationships are still the fabric of business. Like when I go work with clients, I'm like my my business now is is is extremely beneficial. Extremely. I have back then I would I would I would make 200 calls a day, and it was like boiler room type sales. I don't know. And that's changed. I mean, I loved it. Yeah, I was like, it's a game. You know, and I I would work, I'd shadow and coach and teach new salespeople. And I'm like, here's what we do, Johnny. I was like, I'm calling. I'm like, all right, your turn. And they make one call and they go, I need a water. And I'm like, no, get your ass back on the phone. I'm like, let's go. What'd it say? 10 3 1 is that what it is?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Yeah, 10 30.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Yeah, 10 3 1. And I'm like, what do you want to do? I'm like, is one call enough? Is two calls enough? You tell me, like, what's your goal for today? Yeah. And they're like, five meetings. And I'm like, sweet, how many calls I gonna take? And they're like, 10? I'm like, think again. Right. Try a hundred. Right. And they're like, you know, and I I would just work with them and be like, hey, what do you want to do? You want three meetings today? You want five? I'm like, let's do it. I'll go on the road with you tomorrow. I'll help you close a deal. Like, but what do you want to do?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Because like, I'm not gonna work. That's what I tell my kids now. I said, What do you want to do? I'm not gonna do all the work for you, I'm not gonna get you in club baseball. Like, what do you want to do?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Which is you know, but it it's relationship based. And I think that's where you know the corporate world is is lost their footing. Yeah, like I mean, you know, like AI is coming for you, robots are coming for you. Yeah. There's a hundred and nine thousand layoffs in January of 2026. Wow. Which is 210% what there was in December and the month before that, the month before that. And so AI, robots, technology is changing everything. And you know, I post about a lot because it's not a scare tactic, it's not a threat. I'm not pro, I'm not, it's coming. Yeah. And that doesn't change, you know, the fabric of like if you have a business, if you have one person, two person, 10 people, like A, you need to help them evolve, right? So anyone that says AI is AI is not gonna know it's taking your job. You know, 30% of jobs today can be done by AI, 80% of jobs can be done by AI and robots by 2030. Like it's coming for you. Yeah. So if you have a business today, part of relationships now is yeah, you know, happy hours, get to know them, but it's help it's helping them develop. Like, can I get you tools to help you do your job better? Can I get you training? Can I get you, you know, whatever to help upskill you? Upskilling is a huge word in the um recruiting, talent, acquisition, development space. Like, how can I help you upskill to help you get better? Because your team of 10 is gonna go to five tomorrow. Yeah. If you can. So whoever you have, lock onto them, pay them appropriately, find the tools, find the resources. Um, you know, that hasn't changed. How you do it has changed than than what it looked like 10 years ago. Yeah. And now things are moving light speed versus you know, 10, 20 years ago. And I think that's where small businesses, you know, are not ready for it, and neither are the people. And so what you want out of a job, you know, there's tons of studies that have been done about what people value in in jobs, and you know where we're in one of them, you know, where pay was, you know, it was like 17th. Really? Yeah. Wow. And in in kids these days, you know, and and and kids is relative, you know, under 40 could be a kid. They want certain things, you know, and they'd and and that's where you have to learn from your P from them what do they want? And that that works with clients as well. It's no different. Like you're in the insurance game. Is that a short process or is that a long game? It's a it's a long game, isn't it? Am I right or wrong?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

Well, it it depends. Business is business insurance is a long game. Long game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

And that why are they buying is your product that much better than someone else? Yeah, it's pretty much the exact same thing. Pretty much the same. Like they're buying from Jan Simon. Yeah. And it and so that you know, that wafts throughout corporate America, relationships, small business, clients, like it's critical. And you know, if you're in it for the long game, like clients are gonna keep buying from you, not because you have the best insurance, you know, but you might make an introduction to for them, you might, you know, you know, they're gonna buy from from yon. Yeah, right. And same for the people that work for you. Yeah, I don't remember what the question was.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:48

I don't either. You've rambled on way too long. I know. Um for my skill set. Yeah. Okay, so so let's let's continue. Oh, I'll kick that, hit myself in the face. Let's continue down that road. Talk to me about what you do, what your business is, because I have no clue.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

You have no clue, and we've golfed together and had drinks together, all the things.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

I don't listen to you. I know you don't, believe me. Actually, I think I do know what you do, but I want you to tell me what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

So I'll tell you why, and I'll tell you what I do during COVID. So I'd worked in in corporate for a long time, and then during COVID, you know, I started exploring other things, and I had done some real estate stuff before and and done a few things like entrepreneurial-esque. I was never like, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur in college. I was gonna go in sales, management, corporate, you know, all the things. Uh-huh. And um, and I my my belief is that there's there's a lot of people that want to leave their jobs because they hate it. And I think that's that's a farce. I think it's it's a failure waiting to happen. Yeah. I think entrepreneurs in in most cases have to have an entrepreneurial spirit, a drive first to be an entrepreneur. And if you hate corporate, more power to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

But if you just hate your job, you're like, I'm gonna go, sorry. It ain't always gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

But and I'll add to that, I think entrepreneurs have to have a stubbornness.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Oh God. I am, you know, and and I was like I said, I was never an entrepreneur in in high school or college, but I did lots of things that always had a job and always was trying to make money. Mow lawns, I ran basketball camps, like I volunteered. I was in a I did lots of things and but knew I was I was like, I'm gonna be in sales and management. But then, you know, I started you know exploring real estate. I did a little real estate, and then I was like, I want to start doing some side hustle, you know, because that that became a thing, and then now it's the side hustle game is huge. But during COVID, uh businesses were getting crushed, right? Restaurants, and I lived in Illinois at the time, and Illinois is very political. They were shutting down restaurants. Chicago lost 50 of the most iconic restaurants and clubs, and that we loved growing up, like rest businesses were getting crushed, and I I wanted to do a business that um would allow me to do sales, relationship, be involved in the community, and I didn't want to be in corporate, I wanted to work with small businesses that were getting impacted by COVID was how it started. And I didn't want to do anything tedious or like you know operational necessarily. And so I I started, you know, Revin, you know, Revan my my business, and then I did Schoolie Mitchell as like as like a DBA as a uh cost reduction solution franchise. Okay. Always knowing I'd you know do some other things, but I was like, that's it's great, it's perfect because I focus on sales, relationships, I'll help with kind of the analysis and solutions. So we do cost reduction solutions for uh expense categories. So picture your telecom, your waste, your e-signature. We just launched a tax savings solution for payroll that's super powerful. And the the pitch or the the solution is no one's ever said, Oh, that's dumb. We save businesses money with no risk. Yeah. So you either and I we're about 80% of the time we find savings for businesses. So we do the analysis and stuff for no cost, right? So we're we're consulting, but we don't charge an hourly fee. So we do the analysis for free, and then if we find savings, then we take a then we take a portion. Gotcha. So it's a great business model um as far as we literally helped.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

Because your helping the client save money, that's it, even though you're making money on the side.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:03

Yeah, well, the the the question is, hey, if I gave you a thousand dollars a month, would you give me 500 back?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

Right. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:10

Would you? For sure. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Are you gonna give me a thousand dollars a month?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:15

Yeah, no, I'm yeah, I probably would. Uh yeah. All right, be a bad decision for me, I guess. But but the the value prop is Chris, why would why would no one do that? Yeah. No, it's not quite that easy, but I've never had anyone say no and never call me again. So I have zero, I have a lot of confidence in you know, talking about it. And I I was a very assertive salesperson, you know, back in my corporate days. It was like, but it was more of a one call close type of like I, you know, it was like try close, close, close, you know, get a meeting, get a contract. And and this is a long game, you know, more so um because of what we offer, no one's shopping for it, right? I mean, they have to have insurance, yeah, they have to have a fleet, they have to have chairs, they have to have software, they don't have to save money. So while no one ever says, Well, that's DOM, or why would I it it it's not as easy to to close because everyone's got other priorities.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

Well, I and I think also sometimes we're told if if it if it sounds too good to be true, oh for sure. Like that's then yeah, we get that I get that a lot. Where's the scam? Where's the pitch? You know, where do you when are you gonna pull the wool? Yeah, that whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

Yeah, and no one's heard of it before. Um you know, I was in Illinois, not one person I talked to had ever heard of it. Here, fortunately, there's been more like, hey, we're familiar with it, uh, which is good, but you know, it's it's a long game. Yeah, and they'll say yes at some point. There's a there's a saying that, you know, basically like, hey, you know, if they say no, like move on to the next one. Like if they say no, it's not no forever, you know, I'll come back to them. In fact, I have some people that jokingly I'm like, and they're friends of mine, or but they've said no forever. Yeah, and I'm like, if we would have signed 18 months ago, you would have saved by now $400,000 or $1.2 million. Crazy. Yeah. And so I have no concern about what I'm selling, yeah, because it's literally profits back in their hands. Yeah. And you know, we you know, if it's nonprofits, if it's education, like we we, you know, I would give back in scholarships and donations and anything I can to help like nonprofits in education, especially. But yeah, it's it's just a great solution. And I and I do have fun with it, like as far as like you know, people that didn't buy or haven't, you know, I have people that's been three years, and I'm like, hey, it's been three years. You could have saved, you know, three million dollars. I'm like, but from a sales process and relationship, I'm like, you know, I have no problem dragging through the grass glass a little bit and said, hey, if I saved you, you know, 20 grand a month, like, what would you do with it? Would you save a job? Would you buy a new truck? Like, what would you do with 20 grand a month, you know, or or 50 grand a year for a small business? That's a lot of money. That's a ton of money. You know, and nowadays everyone's looking to outsource. So it's like, you know, if if you could, as an owner or as a as a GM, like if you could spend more time, what would you do? It's not managing, looking through a waste management invoice. No, get rid of that. Yeah. Like go spend time with customers. And so I I talk to clients about, you know, an exercise that I do with them, and I haven't monetized it yet, but maybe I will someday. It's like, it's like think of your circle of execution, you know, and and that if you're a restaurant, right, and you started a restaurant, you're a chef, and you love cooking, right? You're gonna cook. And that's your you're gonna own it, you're gonna do it, and like that's your thing. Now, you know, that that second kind of circle might be marketing, right? Like you love marketing, you want to have a hand in it, you don't want to own it, but you want to have some involvement in it, right? So you might hire an agency or you might have some involvement in the marketing aspects. When it comes to accounting, you're like, no, that third circle, you're like, I want nothing to do with accounting, right? Or whatever it is. That's what we that's what we do. It's like, why would you want to deal with your Comcast or waste management or whatever? Yeah, have Susie or Timmy or whomever it is, put them on something else. You know, we're not out to catch them making mistakes, yeah, because we always do. Like I always I we always win. Like we're always gonna seven 80% of the time we're gonna find safety. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:49

Yeah, let's jump subjects really quick, and we'll we'll kind of start wrapping it up because I think you're probably getting tired and my drink's been gone for a while. Well, I'm just kidding. Family, yeah. Got a you got a wife, yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:01

You married way up. I married way up. We worked together, you know. She's everything, you know. I mean, we worked together in our corporate lives. So I I was working in an office and I got asked to move to uh a different office, and when I got there, she was working there and she fell in love with me like immediately. Which um sight unseen. Yeah, well, no, she saw me. She's like, look at that last lady. Look at that guy. I think I want that last name. She, yeah, it wasn't always called Bleefnik, it was you know, other things. Um, but we ended up working together in in the office, and they put us on a uh project. I um we're doing open house, and and literally um from then on, you know, it was kind of over. Like we met, we did this project. Shortly after that, we I had been asked to move to Indianapolis to run a different operation or help help grow this operation. And I told them no because of her. And they came back and asked again. And this was only, and we were dating privately because we couldn't date in the company. And I said no. And then the second time I told her, I was like, this is a really good opportunity, but I'm only gonna take it if you go with me to Indianapolis. We've been dating like three months, and all of her friends and everyone like, no, like, or put a ring on it. And I'm like, it's been three months, like relax. Like it's but like I knew right away, yeah, you know, and I lived in Chicago and had zero relationships leading up to it. We were just you know, partying and working, and like that's it. And you know, we met, and then I got I did take the move to Indianapolis. She came with me without a ring, and then we um we were there for two years. We got engaged, came back to Chicago. I got promoted, we moved back to Chicago and got engaged, got married there, and you know, the rest is history. So she makes me better. She's you know, the you know, she's a blogger, so she's got you know Instagram and and all the things, and she's been doing that for years. So I try to get her one or two followers a week. You know, I try to like, hey, my wife, like follow her. In fact, today I got her, I think I got her two followers today. So what what's her handle? Where do we find her? This is our bliss. This is our bliss. This is our bliss, and that's her insta, her Facebook, her website is this is our bliss. Yeah. So she does lifestyle, you know, clothing. She's done some food, some home stuff, mostly like clothing try-on, and then now she's doing some travel.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

So we've had the does she film every time she's making you guys dinner?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:49

Like some, yeah. She'll be like, No, I'm filming, or like I if we when we go on these trips and stuff, like I have to do all the camera work and pictures, and you know, so it's it's fun, but she's she's amazing, you know. Um, you know, she she's entrepreneur, takes care of her house, does all the things, works a ton of hours a week. She's doing uh home decor business with her friend as well. Oh wow. So she's you know, outstanding. And so because of the blog, I'll be like, they're like, hey, you, you know, someone will be like, hey, you're married. And I'm like, yeah, follow my wife. And so I'll I'll show them, you know, her blog, and they'll go, I'm like, shut, shut up, shut your mouth. I know what you're I know what you're saying. Like, I know she's how did you get with that? I'm like, I know, I know. Yeah, I mean, she's stunning, but she's OnlyFans? No, man. I've told her, I'm like, dude, do like feed finder at least or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:49

That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:50

Two boys. Three, three boys, just had a third like five minutes ago, I guess. Really? No, we have three, 13, 11, 7, and they are, you know, just amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:03

Pushing you for a girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:04

We were gonna go. Well, I wanted two, she wanted four, so we settled on four. We were gonna do four, and then you know, we we didn't end up getting a four. Well, there's still time, right? No, there's not. She had three C sections, and I'm old now, and I'm like, I'm like, let's get this done. If we're going like if we're going three, let on four, I'm like, let's get this going. Yeah. So it'd be rough to start over right now. Oh my god. I mean, I there's I mean, people are having kids later these days. And I I we got, you know, we've been we have a seven-year-old now, so he's he was the last one. So, but they're you know, they're in gifted school and doing sports and guitar and and all the things. So we're super blessed. I mean, my uh they're incredibly smart. I take the them to school quite a bit, and the seven-year-old today was like, Why do people look up in the sky when they're thinking? And uh he asked the 11-year-old, he's like, Would you rather have a dollar a day double for 30 days or a million dollars? I'm like, like I can't even keep up with this quest. It's a dollar a day for thirty, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:10

No, and I I know I'm trying to do the math in my head.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:12

Oh, I can't, yeah. I forgot what it is. It's it's a lot, it's a lot, but I mean he's you know dollar a day double for dollar a day.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:19

Well, a dollar doubled for 30 days. Hmm. I have to do the math on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:23

I know I'll do it. We'll do it later.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:24

Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so you've got uh younger kids. Yeah. Because they're they're not toddlers anymore. No, they're younger.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:32

They're not. They're talking back to me and everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

What uh with with the state of social media, the phones, the and I don't know if your kids have technology and all that wonderful stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:45

What what worries you the most about where we are right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:48

Uh everything. So my kids do not have not been in any trouble. They are middle of the road, as far as like they're smart, they do sports, you know. I have a couple that are in leadership. They're very, very, very good. And I say middle of the road because you know, these days it's like it's scary. You know, there was a there was another suicide in my hometown from bullying, and technology scares me. If you follow Jonathan Heidt, I think it's H A I D T, he's like the number one social media guy about anti-technology. And if you follow him at all, like his his shit is so good, like it's so spot on. So our 13-year-old has a phone, but we limit it. We put, you know, and we and when he got a phone within two weeks we took it away because he was doing some shit he shouldn't have been doing. Yeah, so it's a it's a tough balance, like, and I don't judge other parents because, like, hey, you do you, yeah, um, we're gonna do us. And so when we hear him say, Oh, well, Susie and Johnny, I don't, I'm like, I don't care. Yeah, like, and I will never care what your friends do, yeah, or their parents do. But I see a lot of like unfiltered, you know, just as much iPad and device as you want, and that's scary. Yeah, because back in the day, we could solve it with a fist fight or wrestling match or whatever, or theater. Yeah, I was in theater too. I we didn't get there. I know we didn't get there, we haven't got there, but I I did say we should start like UMe, Toby, and well, I was thinking like a theater group. LJ. LJ LJ TJ. LJ TJ, all the Jan and Ted. I'm gonna have to go by CJ. I mean, I I did theater. You could be TB, I don't know, like I could be anything, whatever. Whatever you want. Uh, it's scary though. Yeah, and so you know, we we try to you know keep an eye on them, but you know, parenting back in the day is different than it was now. My parents were like, you know, I got paddled if I was out of out of line, and parenting these days is different and in a good way, but kids now they think they can do whatever they want too, yeah, you know, and we we just like leadership, like leadership and parenting are not that far parallels. It's like, what do you want to do? And there's 80% of the time we have to kind of coach them on that now. As they get older, hopefully they'll be able to make their own decisions. But I we talk a lot about trust and accountability. Like your actions are gonna determine how much you get of anything, yeah, let alone iPad device. My son wants to walk to Starbucks now. I'm like, bro, that's like two miles. And when I was a kid, I mapped it the other day. I used to ride my bike to my buddy's house, and I was like, I wonder how far that is. And it was like 2.8 miles. That's a that is so far long ways, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:54

Over a bridge. And I was like, And your parents probably were like, Oh, I I'd be going for nine hours. And they never ask.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:02

No, but they did say you had to be home before the street lights come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

I think everybody's parents.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:07

Everybody, my buddies were like, they could do whatever they want. That's why I never that's why I stay at their house. I'm like, we're not staying at my house.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

My parents dinner was when the street lights went on. Oh yeah. And if you weren't home, you had to call and let them know where you were and who you were eating with. I didn't I never ate. So like I remember do you remember growing up?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:27

Like I feel like I blacked out 80% of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:30

Oh, I absolutely I did. I remember I remember bits and pieces, you know, crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

Oh, I remember like I remember biking in Nate's house. Yeah. That was so far. I mean, but he wants to walk to Starbucks. I'm like, no, your room's not clean. No. So your your trust, the trust you build with us is gonna determine what you get and how you get it. Yeah. And the device. It's scary. I mean, the device stuff is scary, bullying is scary. And you know, I think, you know, I'm I'm super passionate about education. Not education as it stands today, it's gonna be grossly disrupted. Colleges aren't ready for it, universities aren't ready for it. If my kids don't go to college, it's very likely. I mean, they're smart enough to get scholarships and all that. You don't need college for 80% of the jobs these days, you do not need college, and you won't need college at some point to be a doctor or an engineer. It it is coming. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:31

And it's incredible what you can learn very quickly in six weeks, in six hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:37

Yeah. You know, you know, we it you can learn more today in in a matter of minutes than you could, and so the education system is still at its core the same as when we were in school.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

Oh, absolutely. Well, you think about a four-year college, you go to high school for four years, you go to a four-year college, the first two years, all your 1041 classes are the exact same thing you did in the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

It's the same stuff. It's like, why are we doing this over? It's the same stuff. And you know, if you if college is 40k a year and now minimum wage is like 20 bucks an hour, that's 40 grand a year. So it's an 80 grand delta in one year times four years, it's $320,000 without raises, without investing, without anything. So you're so I could take an 18-year-old, hire him today, which I talked to, I talked to someone today about hiring interns. And so I have a lot of like you know, big plans I like to do, including hiring an 18-year-old and being like, I will not pay you, I'll pay you commission, bonus, performance-based, but you could have equity, you could start your own business. If you leave in a year, maybe I help fund your business. Yeah, but that's where things are going. And then it gets younger and younger and younger, you know, NIL in colleges, and I mean it, it's everything has changed, and it's gonna change faster and faster and faster. Yeah, and so when we were kids, they're like, You'll never make any money playing Nintendo. Sorry, they're millionaires now.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:13

Oh, look at what I missed out, Mr. Beast.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:15

I mean, you know, and that's including YouTubers, yeah, like that whole world, and so I will never tell my kids you can't do something, but I will like my my my oldest is a guitar, he likes to play guitar, he's been doing it a year, and he's like, I want to be a musician. I'm like, cool. While you want to be a musician, think about buying a studio too, you know, and just just so you're thinking, because these days it's so easy to start a business, there's more entrepreneurs now than ever. There'll be more million, there'll be more millionaires in the next three years than there were the last 20 years. So getting kids to think about you know, wider or broader than just like a narrow vision, like back in the day it was like, you're gonna you're good at math, you're gonna be an engineer, you're gonna go work at John Deere. Yeah, it was linear. And I and I was that, but now like the world's your oyster and all that kind of stuff. But kids these days, it's scary because of of the threat of technology for kids, how it damages, you know, their their how their brain works. And I read a ton about that, and it's really scary. So we shut off his phone at nine, and we're like, look, we don't want you to be the kid that doesn't have a phone, but there's gonna be parameters. And and I know you hate it. Like I we talk, we try to talk to him like not an adult, but like one or two years older than he is, and I'm like give him reason for the thought, not just because I said, Right. When back in the day it was do it because I said, Right. And now it's like, look, and I and I will literally chat GPT, I'll be like, hey, you know, what I'll be like, what are what are the five main reasons why kids at 13 years old should not be on their phone that much? And brrr. And I'm like, here, you want to use your phone? Here, use it. Yeah, you know, so it's just like it's an 80-20 adage. Yeah. You're like, I I don't want to talk 80%. Like I want you to talk. Tell me about stuff. Like if I catch them in a lie, I'm like, why'd you lie? Like, what good did that do? Now you're in more trouble. Yeah. So it's you know, it's it's uh scary, but the those opportunities are wild. So I I you know, I talk to them the big picture now, you know, when they're kids, because I I want them to be in leadership. Like leaders, you know, leadership as a kid now is just an incredible skill. But it starts with shaking hands. Yeah. Like you learn how to shake a hand as an eight-year-old. Like we roll, we we practice, and like we're gonna go into this house, and there's gonna be all these adults, and you know, we're gonna shake hands when you walk in and say, Hey, my name is Simon, or my name, you know, and say, How are you doing? And you learn that skill, yeah. Look him in the eye. Look him in the eye. Yeah, like you meet kids these days on the basketball court, like I coach, and you meet kids on the basketball court, the football field, and you're like, damn, that kid's got it. Either he's a great athlete and he just he has that look and he's a he's a leader, or he says, Hey, Mr. Bl Mr. Blink. I'm like, I said my name wrong, brat. No, come here, you look here, like no, but you can't. Knock you out. I'm like, I just hope everything I do is like I just hope my kids, you know, do that. Yeah, do the do the be a good human.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:35

You know, that's that's all you can do. That's all you that's all you hope for.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:38

Absolutely. We have a ton other questions that I want to ask you, but I feel like we have an hour and 45 minutes. Oh I have a lot more too. Sorry. We're gonna have to do a 2.0.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:50

I think you should. Yeah. I think there's I mean, I don't even think I covered I what was it? What do you what do you what do you want?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:57

I I ac actually honestly, the three points I wanted to cover, we've covered. They're snuck in there sometimes. Yeah, they're oh, they're in there. But now I got a question for you. Yeah, I thought you had because we've been talking about your boys. Yeah. When you talk about your 13-year-old mostly. When your boys are grown and have their own kids and they're having conversations with their kids, just like you were talking about your grandpa earlier.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:18

What do you hope they say about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:19

Oh, I mean, lots of things, but I I look at K I I I think about them saying like, hey, remember that time, like, and then that time is gonna be different. Like that time he coached us, or that time he did this, that time he motivated us, that time went to Disneyland, that time.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:39

I just want him to be like Mouse Voice, and I just wanted to slip.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:42

We just went to Disneyland. We just went to Disneyland. I do embarrass my kids, don't I love it? Like, I pull I pull up to pick up my 13-year-old, I'll turn on like my seven-year-old loves techno. Oh no. So I got him in a techno, my 13-year-old loves country and whatever else, but I'll pull up to pick up my 13-year-old, and I'll I'll crank up like the most obnoxious song ever, and his friends are dying laughing, and he's like, turn it off. And I'm like, that's the kind of funny people like that. People like funny, dude. Your friends are laughing. Yeah. So I hope they say, like, remember that time, you know, and that I mean, I tell them I love him a hundred times a day.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:19

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:20

Yeah, I mean, I we didn't back in the day, it wasn't like you did that, and I just tell them I love him a hundred times a day, you know, and just that way they know no matter what, if they're in trouble or if whatever the case is, like dad always said he loved me. That's you know, so that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:35

How do you define this?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:36

And that he's a hell of a golfer. I get a hole in one with my kids. No kids. That's my hole in one.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:41

I've never hit a hole in one. I hope my son's with me when I do it. He has he's even see it. Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:48

Well, I I threw it was like the second hole. I threw a ball down, hit it, it went in, and I was like, it's my first and I've played since I was four. Yeah. So I've hit 10 billion shots. And you envision your hole in one at Pinehurst with your buddies, and you're doing watching. And so I'm with my wife and two of the kids. I throw a ball down on two, hit a hole in one, and I'm like, I literally was like, oh am I am I in your and they go, they're like, What happened? I go, Well, I got a hole in one. And they're like, Why aren't you more excited? I'm like, I'm I'm in shock. And my seven-year-old, God bless him, he's like, he's like, that's amazing. And I was like, and my wife was like, a little thing, a little disappointed that my my reaction wasn't. I mean, it was amazing because I was like, what better to have hole in one than with your family? But to have- I don't remember what your question was. I don't either. I was like, when did you get a hole in one?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

I yeah, you started talking about golf. I know I lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:44

Look, golf's golf's the best, man. It's how do you define success? Oh, that's a great question. Like, I mean, it's tough because I think people want to say, and people can say whatever they want. Like, your definition of success is your definition of success. I've gotta be good with myself, like daily, weekly, monthly, so I can be there for my wife, so I can be there for my kids. And so that's and maybe a little cle, not cliche, but faux pas to say that. But I gotta be good with me, and I gotta be good with my wife so that we're showing up every day for our kids. I want to do I feel like I'm in my second career now, in my second like wave. Like I did a lot of great things over the years. Um, but I feel like I'm, you know, maybe for another podcast, but I feel like in my second wave where I'm like, I'm so motivated to like do big things, and like I've got some big things, you know, on the table, you know, but the next I'm like I so motivated to like do it and do it for my wife, and then you know, do it so my kids can see like, hey, this is badass. Like letting my kids be like, hey, that's badass. Yeah, and they want to do something that's badass, whatever it is. Yeah, I mean, fun shit is cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:59

I want I just want to do fun shit and cool shit. I want to do partnerships, like sure my my corporate, I think leadership has changed. We're now like just so motivated to like do it for other people and still be super successful. Like, I'm not a nonprofit. Yeah, I want to do big, I want to do big things and you know, and make a bit make a splash, but I don't need my name in the newspaper. Like, I don't I don't need that. I just want to do big things that that people like like that's cool. I want you know, in in partnerships or like you know, with schools and programs and like you know, I mean kids are the most important asset we have. Yeah, my kids, your grandkid. Dang, he's cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:39

He's adorable.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:40

Thank God for your wife.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:41

Probably. Okay. What was a question?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:44

Did I answer it?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:45

Oh, good. I mean, who knows?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:46

I got one more question. I have a short short window. Short brain wave.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:51

Short brain wave. Comes and goes, or more comes.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:54

Last question. Did you say comes? Maybe. That was not my last question, by the way. Oh that was your first question. My first question. It's my first question. My last question. Here's my last question.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:08

I'm ready for it whenever I'm trying to come up with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:11

What would our theater name be? I seriously we should do something. What'd your stripper name? Stripper. Well, my my nickname's the Bizzle. So it'd probably be something like that. Schnizzle Bizzle. I've had so many nicknames though. I grew up in the 80s, 90s, and my name was Teddy, Theodore. I teddy bear, you know, Theodore Roosevelt, Theodore Ruxpin, or Teddy Ruxpin or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:29

I mean, I had to you want to know something crazy? I don't think I've ever had a nickname.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:33

No?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:34

Never. People call me by my last name.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:37

Well, how many times have people called me Jan? Simon there.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:39

Yeah, Jan. Oh yeah, Jan. I mean, but I get Jan all the time. I never had a nickname. Really? Yeah. And I've you know how many times I've had be sat up thinking about that ahead and I mean there's other, I mean I had many nicknames.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:52

Is that your question? What was my nickname?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:54

Yeah, something like that. When you strip away all the titles, all the accolades, everything's come and gone. What do you hope to become?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:03

Hope to become? I mean, legacy like winning awards, I I don't do all recognition, but legacy's different. So, you know, I want to leave a legacy for things that I touched.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:19

Yeah. I do I will leave a legacy for things that I was involved with. Are your hands tied when you touch it?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:24

Yeah, I mean mostly. I can tell I'm tired because I just said that. But yeah, I mean, leaving a legacy, you know, like I didn't let being suspended define me. Like I want to leave a legacy um behind from you know my wife and my kids, my business, you know, giving back. I'm I'm heavily involved with the school, like coaching. I coach every sport I can. So I think it's just leaving a legacy. And if my kids want to get in the business, you know, we've talked about starting a business for them now at their age. Um, you know, a get a guitar pick business for my 13-year-old or a baseball arm sleeve business for the the uh 11-year-old for the baseball, like leaving a legacy for them, whatever it is, and just you know, being being good, being good humans. But I think the the word legacy leaves, you know, lives uh forever. Awesome. You were trying to say something. I like it. Nope. Yeah, I mean, I want people like, look, I you know, I think it having fun is better than not having fun. Yeah. Well, I can tell you period. I mean, that's one of the things I think I think that's you know, it's like it's like you'd ask a question like who are you or what's your like and I'm the first one to have fun, but if you give me a shot at your business, like I will I will bury it. Like I'm super competitive, and if you give me a shot at your business, I will just and that my mind is just not in the right place. I know you haven't been for a while. You're worse than I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:56

But you're saying things like if you let me give me a shot at your business, you are not touching my business.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:03

Oh well that you're thinking that business that's not even a business, isn't even I guess it is maybe, yeah. You do have a bad mind, I guess. Not touching your business. Oh my god. Yes, my child.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:15

I I will have to say, anybody who doesn't know you, the thing that I've come to appreciate appreciate about you is I just never know when you're serious or you're not.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:22

Yeah, it goes, it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:24

And I am so gullible that I'm not sure. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:28

Well, that's why I emailed you, and I feel like I mean that's how I am. Like I I I'm sarcastic to a degree, and you know, um, I don't walk in a room be like, I'm gonna be funny. But if the opportunity presents itself, sure. Sure. But I emailed you and I I called you like two days later. I was like, I was just I was just messing around. Like I wasn't sure if I because knowing you, yeah, you'd be like, are you serious about this?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:52

Oh, I was. I totally was.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:54

No, you I read it and I'm like, we don't have a lot of time to get through this. It was a genuine offer. I'm like, if you if you but I'm a yes man, so if you ask me, like I'll do it. Like I we're gonna do it. Yeah, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:06

Now you're stuck. Yes, man, we'll do it. You know, we're we're gonna the song, Who Are You? What is that CSI or something like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:14

The show? Yeah. Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:15

I don't know. There's a there's a song, anyways. Yeah, no, I uh N C I S N C I S that's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:20

Yeah, I do that at times. It doesn't always work, but you know, so be it.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:25

I am very much, I don't know. I I throw sarcasm, I don't feel think of myself as funny, and I'm no, I think you are, yeah. But but I'm off the cuff. Like people say stuff like my such a sophomoric brain.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:37

Well, listen, if if you're not making fun of me, I you should be. Yeah. And that's why like if I if I poke fun at you, I think you take it. Oh, absolutely. You know, so when we're in a group setting, look, like I don't think it vibes with everybody, but you know, you gotta it gotta have fun. Like if you're not making fun of me, please do.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:54

Yeah, like it's you know well, and I'm the same way. Like it actually makes me feel loved when people make fun of me. I'm like, I love it. Yeah, like I love it. Probably because I grew up people making fun of me so long. Oh, that's my love language.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:05

Like, if my wife, when she's around my my friends I grew up with, she's like, You guys are awful. Do you guys hate each other? Like, you're awful.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:14

That's so it's so awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. Well, hey, thank you very much. Yeah, hey, thanks for having me. Thanks for thanks for coming on. We'll have to do it again. Mean two.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:25

Yeah, let's I mean the dirty the fire pod. Are you gonna share a video? That was awesome. We didn't even talk about AI or like anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:33

All right, well, now here's the thing on you know what's crazy is I had a guy. You always have a guy. I I have a guy. I had a guy, and he asked me if he could get in my business. Can you do my business?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:46

Will you hold my business? My wife was texting me like are you picking Simon up from baseball? I sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:51

Uh he's been waiting a long time. Let me call her real quick. Okay, she would love to be on. Yeah. Have her. I will have her on because she probably has a following more than you. More than me. I try though. You see my stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:05

I try.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:05

Okay, so my my point, that AI stuff that we've been playing around with, yeah. And how it makes us more and more look like each other. It is creepy. I mean, you and I have enough close It's the German coming out.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:19

It's the German and Dutch. Yeah. I'm literally Dutch and German.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:22

And I am too. I'm like, I think I've got like maybe like five percent higher. Literally, they'll like crop morph.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:28

Like, I'm you and you're it's crazy. So I I feel like AI likes you more than me. Because like I always turn into you. You know, I think I turn into you.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:37

That's funny. You I turn into you as like hilarious. I uh so I get an email from from a carrier rep today. And he says, Hey, my boss is coming to town, we'd like to you know take you to lunch or whatever. I swear to god, they look like brothers. I'm like, you drop that into AI because it looks like it like blended you two together. It was the funniest thing, but it made me think of that because every time I make a video or you make a video, it's like now all of a sudden it's starting to go tell us apart. And like, okay, this is just creepy.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:06

Oh, it's weird. I gotta we gotta figure out how to break the mold there, but yeah, I like the videos, they're they're fine. Now you're doing it. Now you're like, yeah, yeah. I I Christine doesn't care for the very what did you say?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

That oh it's creepy. She's like, why are you posting those things? You don't want people to see that. Well, like I did it to TJ.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:24

I did it to TJ too. Like, if if I'm once I get on a kick, I can't get out of it. Yeah. And so if it's you or TJ or someone else, I'm like, oh, you know, make me a video of Jan selling intern, but he's running into an issue because there's a there's a bullfighting contest, and and then I'll do nine of them, and then I'm like, oh, it's not working. Like, get the AI right. And so once I get a kick, I just until I get it right, I can't stop. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:53

All right. Well hey, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:56

Appreciate it. This is Ted Leafnik, and I went above and beyond.