Pivots and Perseverance: LJ, Ted, and Bob Redefine Their Destinies

In a roundtable on business and life pivots, host Jan Simon talks with LJ Richardson, Bob Flecken, and Ted Bliefnick about leaving corporate paths for entrepreneurship and the motivations behind those decisions. LJ describes abruptly quitting a 16-year career at Discount Tire to launch ventures including golf apparel and later a mobile tire business funded by a HELOC, driven by culture shifts, refusing to return to school, and a desire to control time and prioritize family and faith. Bob recounts career pivots after a mentor’s death, roles with private equity, becoming a CEO, selling a company, moving back to Arizona, and starting independently to regain fulfillment and family time. Ted shares a slower transition from corporate/VC roles, panic attacks from performance pressure, and the belief that hating corporate life isn’t enough without passion and a clear “why.” They discuss comfort and fear, authenticity, sales, leadership, spouses’ influence, raising kids, and defining success as family, time, character, and faith over money.

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I think you have to have the passion, belief, the itch to like really want to be an entrepreneur, want to start a business, want to do something. And if you hate corporate life or VC world, then great. Yeah. But I think hate alone doesn't most times doesn't equal, you know, success on the other side. Hey there, welcome back to Above and Beyond where Excellence Meets Elevation. I'm your host, Jan Simon, and this season we're raising the bar, diving into the passion, purpose, and the finding moments of leaders who don't just aim high, they live there. Big ideas, real stories. Let's get into it. Hey, I'm joined by three men who've experienced pivots in business, leadership, life, and purpose. LJ Richardson, Bob Fleck, and Ted Belief in it. We're going to unpack what happens when life changes direction. When business changes direction, and when you have to decide whether to stay comfortable or step into something unknown. So guys, welcome. This is my pivot right here. You've already used all your errors. Pretty much. Let's try some trials. Pretty much. We're talking about pivots. We're talking about life. Talk to me about specific moments where you guys had to pivot, had life kind of running you in one direction, and maybe something happened, stopped you, you ran in the other direction. TJ? Thanks, Jid. TJ was my first choice. I went with LJ John. Oh, now we know. I appreciate it. You had to pivot. Mine actually happened. I thought I was going to be a lifer at Discount Tire when I started it there at 17, 18 with a kid on the way. I was like, this is going to be a career. I didn't want college. And I was there for 16 years managing a store. And literally at 12 30 in the morning, I decided with my buddy, I'm going to put my two-week notice in and start a golf apparel business with you. So that was like the big pivot. I mean, we were a single-income family of five, had three kids at home. The wife was doing that, and I had a great career, a great track going. And it was just like, man, I I don't want to do this anymore. I'm eight-hour work weeks aren't fun, and corporate America life, and just a bunch of changes. So I always thought discount tire was gonna be it until I retired, and now I'm Moby Tire is my my third or fourth choice since I left that. So when when you decided to leave, were were you prepared for that? I mean, had you s had you worked your way up to that and got some money squirreled away? Oh no. Or you just was like one night you're like, don't unfortunately that's kind of the way I always go about things, which is drives Melissa mad. Um, is that I'm just like, yeah, I think I want to do this. So uh my buddy was like, you know, when he retired, he's like, hey, I'm gonna take a couple years off, figure out what it's like to, you know, become a father and a dad and not traveling and playing baseball all the time. And I think I want to start a golf pearl company. And I was like, all right, cool, man, have fun with that. And then I was at this discount time on Lindsey and University, and he lived up the road, and we were doing floors that night. So as the manager, I had to sit there until they were done at two in the morning, and we just sat there and talked about what he wanted to do. And I literally that was a Wednesday night, I put a two-week notice in on Friday, so there was a personality. No, no, no. So, and then yeah, then I jumped from a career four years later, and uh I didn't think that was gonna be my forever job, but it gave me an opportunity to get kind of back that medical and dental in the security that my wife liked, even though I traveled a lot. But even with that, I mean, we were in the middle of Iowa. If you've ever been to Iowa, there's not a whole lot there. I was messing around on a tractor tire. My buddies in Nashville had started Freedom Tire Guys and 17 and asked me to come along back then, and I was like, no. And then I just looked at my wife and I go, I think we're gonna do the tire thing when we get back home. And she's like, You're crazy. And there was that was kind of it. I mean, I didn't really have a plan. I just bought a van, took a HELOC loan out against my house, bought a van, and started changing the tires out of a van. So I mean, yeah, it's kind of been, you know, we've been in doing this for four years now. I did a name change a year and a half ago. But yeah, unfortunately, uh, much to the demise of my wife, like I I definitely I'll never forget one manager at Discount Tire got mad at me, which happened often, and he's like, You just shoot from the hip, you never think. And I'm like, probably you're probably right. And now looking back, I'm like, Yeah, that's kind of me. So and you were like, Shut up. Yeah, you don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what I do, I know what I do. Yeah, so Bob. Yeah, so I guess I can go a couple different ways with this, but I think of my life like broken into two parts, and one is my you know, 25-year career working for somebody else, and then now I'm kind of doing what I was probably meant to be doing. So a couple of pivots during my career where I was working for a company, I worked for him for about 15 years, and it was really where I got my start, so I had a lot of loyalty to those guys. Uh, and what happened was the owner passed away, and he was just a great mentor to all of us. I mean, I wouldn't be nearly where I'm at today had I not been lucky enough to meet him. And so what happens is his, you know, his wife takes over, she does fine, she does what she thinks is right, but it just kind of changed things, right? So I wasn't out looking for anything, something found me, and you know, just kind of having that that faith, that leap of faith to take a jump and try something different that I thought would maybe push me in my career to something that I hadn't done before, and so I left there and I went to a competitor, and that was in 2010, and then was with that competitor till about 2017, and that was a great fun ride, and that's where I kind of cut my chops in working for private equity groups, and um same deal. I think what happened for me is I have a sweet spot in business, and that's like when a business is still like you can make an impact on people's lives, you can make an impact on customers. I like being out there, I like being front and center with people. I'm not a like sit behind the desk kind of guy, right? So companies get bigger and you know, processes and different things take over, and then people they kind of become in bigger companies, they kind of become inadvertently, they become numbers, and you know, then it becomes about the money and not about the experience and all of the things that helped you get there. And so again, wasn't looking for anything, and then I got an opportunity to step into a C-suite position, so then I moved back to California, pivoted again, and that was for about five and a half, six years where I was CEO of a gate company. That was a lot of fun, smaller business, right in my sweet spot. Dude, you know, we made great headway, grew the business, eventually sold the business, and then was sticking around, kind of see if I was gonna do it again for another turn, and then just kind of had a mutual separation of the ways and decided let's get back to Arizona. We could be closer to Carly and the kids, and I've never been happier. Started the started with a franchise and did that for I don't know, a couple years, and then we just decided, hey, let's let's break it on our own, and that's where we are today. You mean he made a pivot? I made a pivot. Yeah, I think he said it way more times than I did. I didn't realize that was like the key word, but yeah. I was like, You gotta drink every time somebody sees pivot. Do we get time out for another one? Yeah. Ted, did you ever pivot in your life? Way from the brothers. Everyone knows. He got out of his car and pivoted. I literally pivoted in my car. I was like, if I'm doing a turn-on jumper, did you have one of those sit-in spins when you were a kid? Not till I was older. Think of it. Yeah, I uh how many times can we say pivot in this, do you think? I don't know. We could count. Do you have one of those automated counters? We could say the first person to subscribe and add the comment. And hashtag pivot a shirt or something. A Mather Brothers water bottle. Heck yeah, that's a Mather Brothers. Oh, that's a steal. You're gonna be they're gonna be racing to fill it out. Um yeah, I mean, like I even in college, like I went to th this is a Guinness world record, I went to the three schools and graduated in four years. So that was less of like a pivot, more like I didn't know what I was gonna do. Kind of like went to play basketball and golf at one, then I went to the big school, then went back to a small school to golf, graduated in four years, and I I think even from high school on, I was never like I'm gonna start my own business. I was surrounded by family that was in sales coaches, a few of them had their own business, but we grew up in a town that was mid-size, but you just knew everybody. And so my grandfather and my family was super connected, and I liked that environment of like knowing everyone. They're like, oh, you'll be good in sales, and my dad was in sales, and so I knew from high school pretty much that I would go into sales or corporate leadership and like move up the corporate ladder. And so, even in college, I was just kind of screwing around for the most part, and I landed an internship with Northwestern Mutual, which is really the best internship you can get. You're doing financial planning, investing. I was calling all of our family, friends, attorneys, business owners to like sell them life insurance, which as a 20-year-old is a hard sell. Right. Like, you know, my life insurance from a 20-year-old in a uh, you know, cut off tie and you know a marble suit jacket, but it taught me cold calling and relationship building, and I loved it. It would just kind of steer me more in the direction of like, hey, I want to go into sales, I want to move up the ladder, you know, get in corporate life. So I grew up south of Chicago where there was no opportunity. And so I was like, you know, I wanted to move to Chicago or somewhere big and start, you know, my career. And I worked for the same company for 16 years. You know, I worked up, I was uh ran some big operations, you know, did all the things, got stock, you know, and then at some point that culture shifted in a way that I was like, I don't see myself here anymore. So leaving that company was a huge move for me because I was a lifer, I had the stock, I had the plan, you know, financial plan, and then I left and it just changed everything. And so I continued the path of like smaller startup VC private equity type companies where I had all the titles like director, VP, GM. And at some point, I still was never like, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur yet, but I just started, you know, getting curious, and you know, I sort of I bought some real estate and started dabbling in a few things, and then finally I was like, I knew at that point, uh, A, I wanted to get back into like small business. I think you were talking about small business, community, like making an impact, uh just being in front of people in corporate. I'm on Zoom calls eight hours a day, 10 hours a day. I was working globally, so I was taking calls at 10 o'clock at night, four o'clock in the morning. I'm on Zoom 12 hours a day, like just glued to the computer, and just knew I wanted to get back into small business, you know, making an impact. And I wanted to control my own destiny, start my own business, and so it was a huge slow pivot because I was still working and making this transition to uh you know entrepreneur life and running your own business. So I I think that though to do it, I mean there's several types of pivots you have to have, but I think I think it's a misconception that people will they're like, I hate my job or I hate corporate, therefore I'm gonna go start a business. Unless you're LJ. Unless you're LJ. Then if you can just shoot from the hip and just wing it and sling tires, you're done. Yeah, it just doesn't always work. I think I think you have to have the passion, belief, the itch to like really want to be an entrepreneur, want to start a business, want to do something. And if you hate corporate life or VC world, then great. Yeah. But I think hate alone doesn't most times doesn't equal you know success on the other side. But it was a huge shift. I mean, I I loved working in with people and leading teams and doing all that. And then will I lead teams again, bigger teams again? I I hope so. But I'm not I'm not gonna push for it yet. The one uh it's just you know, something that'll happen organically, you know, as we grow. And yeah. It's it sounds to me like, or maybe I should ask a question. Was there we'll say an I shouldn't say this in this group, was there an itch that you couldn't ignore that like itchy. Well, the the nothing little cream can't cure. You never know. The one thing the one common thread that I heard is uh that there was like changing of the guard or the culture changed with your with what you thought you were gonna be a lifer. You're the owner that you were with, he passed away, and then his wife took over. For me, the same thing is Mr. Hawley, the founder of Discount Tire, was phasing out of the business and giving discount tire over to who runs it now, which is lawyers, his son-in-law, and and stuff like that. And you could just feel the shift in the culture that made it special. Uh itched to get into what I'm doing now was really the company, the global company I was working with wanted me to go back to like go to school. They're like, Well, you need to have a bachelor's degree. And I go, Why don't you have an associate? It's like I didn't I don't do college. Right. So I took three classes online, and then that's really when I was like, This is I don't want to do that. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that is that the companies want a degree? I mean, in something like that. You were working in foundry work, right? Yeah, they wanted well, they supposedly it was like they no, they wanted to be like a national, like a global sales account manager, like oversee the Americas. That was kind of like the path that I had heard, which is why I needed to go back to school. And uh I got like three months into that, and I'm like, no, like I I don't want to do this. I hate this. I hate everything about I hated school when I was going to school. I'm not about to do it at 36, 7 years old. Yeah, and uh so really the the itch was like I I've always kind of just been true from the hip. So and I knew tires, uh, but I knew customer service. That that's the one great thing about uh coming up through you know the the tire world is with Mr. Hawley running the company back in the 90s or 80s, 90s, and 2000s, is like we just it was inbred in us like how to or ingrained in us how to like take care of people, and so it really wasn't about like I'm gonna start a tire company, it's more so I'm gonna build a customer service business and it's just gonna happen to sell tires, which everyone hates to buy, but you have to buy them. Yeah, eventually everyone's like acquired commodity. Yeah, absolutely. So, but yeah, there's kind of the itch. I mean, was just I didn't want to do school, so let's just go start my own business. So far, so far, so good. Yeah. For me, it was time. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was exactly what I think you said. It was just it's such a grind. Um you're out there and you're just busting your butt and like failure's not an option, right? So the only thing you can the thing you can give the most of in that scenario is like your time, and now I control my time. And and you know, it's time with being at home, yeah. Time with being with my wife, time with spending time with my kids, things that I did as much as I could whenever they were younger. But I was always like, gotta go to work, gotta go to work, gotta jump on a plane, gotta because you had to go make it happen, right? Like whatever it was. So, yeah. So that was the itch that I think really kind of pushed me towards entrepreneurship. And I'm I'm really glad I did it. You know, it's scary, it's it's a big leap, but all the things that I thought it could be, it's it's been all that in a bag of donuts from TJ. TJ They're coming. You guys, you guys deal on the same thing, round things with holes and yeah, yeah. Things with holes, that's right. Things with holes. I know where Jan's head's going. His his donuts are flaky and delicious. They are flaky and buttery. Yeah. What is it that you think would I mean, because uh for me, I mean, there's been a few pivots in my life, but the the major pivot was when I started the agency, and that was seven years ago. And I literally was like, I just put on the blinders. It was like there was no other option. I was like, I'm done working for anybody else. I'm just done. What do you think it is that keeps people uh stuck in their day-to-day that would make you I mean, what what could have made you not make the pivot? I mean, because we've all made the pivot, and it sounds like okay, had everything stayed the same at discount, would you still be there? Discount tire pays really well. Like I'm we're talking $250,000, $300,000 for successful store managers. Wow. That's that's pretty good money to a kid that grew up in apartments all of his life. Yeah. So I knew what was out there. Thankfully, by the grace of God, I never got to taste that. I was only a manager for like three years, and I think I I capped out my best year, it was like $72,000. So for me, you mentioned time. You know, I I started a family at 17 when my daughter was born. We bought our first house at 19. We were married at 19, moved into our first house, and had boys, my two boys early on. I kind of tired basically just controlled my schedule. You know, you're open six days a week, you couldn't take really Saturdays off. So I got like a weird random Thursday off during midweek and closed on Sundays. And uh for me, what drove me to pursue the golf business was my buddy is uh a believer, and we did church life together, and we weren't gonna be open on the weekends. And I remember the first for the first month, my daughter had volleyball games on Saturdays, and I felt so out of place. 16 years of working weekends, and I drive by discount tire stores like and just get irritated. Like, man, I gave up so much of everything for a company. It's not their fault. I mean, I agreed to it, but looking back, I wish I I wish I would have done it sooner. Um yeah, I mean, I think time was the and when I started this business, I was where I said we're closed on the weekends, and people still to this day, well, you can come put my tires on Saturday or Sunday. I go, no, I'm Monday through Friday, eight to five. Like that's it. If your car's sitting at your work on a Tuesday, I don't need to come to your house on a Saturday. Yeah. So uh time is definitely what makes it makes it worth it. So for me, I don't know what the question was. I don't either. I was just I was gonna answer, but I was like, I forgot the question. I was just gonna say time just to like avoid asking what the question was. Pivot, pivot, pivot if I gotta tell you. This is a great question. I don't remember. Well, let me just fill in the gap then. I think it's uh I mean time for sure, but I I I'd imagine I work similar hours. Oh, it was why don't people why don't people make the pivot? Because they're just because they're comfort fear, yeah, like could be capital. Could be yeah a golden umbrella. What are they not the golden whatever umbrella that they call it? Yeah. Some people just aren't crazy enough though. Well, and I would agree. I think though, if you don't know what you want to do, like I said earlier, if you just hate your job, right? They get stuck and they can't go do something because they don't aren't exactly sure what they wanted to do. You might you might have shot from the hip. I was like, I'm an information junkie, so I just, you know, not educated, but I I read and watch Fox News. I watch YouTube. I just I just read a shameless clip. I just read and do as much as I can. Leep that out out of my YouTube. Yeah, that'll start a whole nother Facebook with those that will remain nameless. Yeah. Um I just was like during COVID, all these small businesses were were getting hammered, you know, and they were getting uh COVID money and just barely staying afloat. And I was like, I want to do small business, I want to do sales, focus on sales, I want to help impact small business, and that's how I started my business because I I saw a specific niche that was going to fulfill what I wanted, but also there the data showed there was a massive opportunity for small business that were getting hammered financially. And so it was just a perfect segue for me to do what I wanted, but also based on what the market was telling us. And then every cycle it continues, you know, COVID and then uh gas prices, uh, cost of goods is up, right? I mean, every cycle for me is beneficial based on how the financial, you know, stock prices and oil and gas and all of it. It all plays into my favor one way or the other at some point. And so mine was based on, hey, there's a specific niche I can fill there, and also, you know, fill my bucket, you know, based on what I want to do. So it was I I I was reading and researching and not a perfectionist, just more like probably overthinker or indecisive. But I was like, if I'm gonna move, I want to make sure it's like something I want to do. Yeah, and I could run off the side of my desk for a while. I didn't have to leave, like quit, and then I'm here with nothing. Yeah. So I was able to make a uh fractional pivot. You're you're weak. I know, yeah. Hey, we I am weak. Fractional pivot. All right, you can leave the room. It wasn't like a shack, it wasn't like a shack pivot. It was like a Yow Ming. Like a Yow Ming pivot. Or like an Andre or Andre Ayton pivot. You look a lot like Manute Bull right now. Oh yeah, who can shoot? Bob, you've changed industry a c a couple times. And LJ, you have as well, I guess. I mean, I actually all three of you have. I've been in the same industry for 30 years, but all three of you guys have changed it. Is it harder to change the circumstance or your identity? In your circle of influence. Or does that change at all? Does it matter? I like to think I didn't change my identity. I think you you I think for me it was circumstantial, probably more so. And it wasn't like my circumstances were bad, you know, they were great. Yeah. So super thankful for like kind of what you said about discount. Like it was they were good jobs. They were around good people. It was more about like, hey, and I think you know, people thinking about doing this are like, why haven't they taken that step? It's just you just gotta jump. Like you gotta go, and you have to have a big why as to why you want to go. For me, you know, getting to go hang out with my kid on Saturday was a big enough why, you know. So I think it's uh I think that's what really kind of drove the decision. I I never really had pause and is it gonna work or can we do it, or any of those kinds of things because I'd done it so many times before and had success, you know. I mean it's it's people, right? Like everything that we're doing is people, and people just need to be treated well, and you know, so if if that's like who you are in your DNA and in your makeup, then I think at the end of the day, that's just who you are. So it comes down to it. I feel like it was uh different for me. I mean, to your point, it's like you are who you are, but when I was in corporate sales and I was doing Zooms and I'd have to prep for three weeks for a presentation with a team in China, and like I I was like, I was some I was different, right? Based on those calls and working with internal teams, like prepare for the calls. You know, we're presenting to the global leader of contingent workforce at Google, you know, and I'm like, it just it I got pulled so far out of my comfort zone, like the higher up I got because I felt like I had to be this certain persona in a corporate environment and then working with Fortune 100 companies, like honestly, I had panic attacks, you know, prepping for some of the meetings. I mean, I I it wasn't it wasn't even nervous, it was just flat out like complete breakdowns. Yeah, I was like, I fucking hate this, and I knew that going into it, and it was like a slow drip of like I hate this, and while I was you know making my professional change, it just confirmed you know how much I hated it because it just took me so far out of what I'm good at, and that's just I can totally relate to that. Me and myself 100%. Yeah, yeah, I can too. I remember in and for me, I mean there was a long stinted corporate, but I was in Michigan for a a business launch. I was out launching a product up there, and I'm literally on the side of the road in Michigan having like I couldn't even get back in the car, yeah, having a panic attack. And it was like this weirdest, like I I was freaking out. It took took me probably two hours to get myself calmed down back in the car. I remember one vividly, we would run these. I'd run an all-office meeting, and there was like 50, 60 people that I was, you know, overseeing. We had this big we had this big board that we run all our meetings on, and we move these tags. There was you know, recruiting stuff. So we were moving tags and marking shit, and sometimes it'd be like a 30-minute meeting. I had a panic attack during one of those meetings, and I thought it was I thought I was dead. Yeah, it was like everything went black. It's an adrenaline release. It was it was memorable. Yeah, yeah. And I turned around and I was like, oh, like cross-eyed, couldn't see, and everyone's just staring at me. Like it's like one of those movies where everyone's like complete breakdown afterwards. I went to my office and probably cried, but I I was like, that's it, I'm done, I'm dead. Interesting. If I'm not, I wish I was. Oh, I would rather in that moment, it was it was extreme. And that wasn't the only one, but it was like you just try to muscle through it, and I'm like, this is so is it just the kind of the public speaking aspect of that that would like get to it? Bro, this dude doesn't have a problem speaking. No, it wasn't. Oh my god. Sometimes I'm like I needed to call your wife. Where's this button like shut up? If you were to try to like get in touch with that, like what was it? All of the buildup of like we were when I when I took over this operation, we had we had dropped, we lost four big accounts, we dropped 18% in revenue in like six weeks. And I was like, I it wasn't my fault, it was my predecessor, and you know, when you transition, we lost some accounts, we lost business, but immediately it was like throat joke to me, and I was like, fuck this, you know, and so it was all the pressure of the performance, and then I had to fire six, seven of my people. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, six, six. I had to fire, I had to fire, but I'm like, why were these people even? Could have been eight, nine, yeah, yeah, but six, seven, seven. I was like, why are these people here? So finally I was like, time out. These kids are gonna listen this way. Yeah, he got it, and he got it, then he got it. 20 bucks, Billy. It just became a family show. 20 bucks, Billy. And so finally I was like, time out. I was like, I talked to my boss and my boss's boss, and I was like, this place, I'm I'm I'm wiping it out. I'm starting over. So either you let me start over or I'm out, period. Because I'm not gonna do this for the next six weeks, 12 weeks, and like pretend like no, it's I'm starting over, I'm gonna clean house, I'll fire 40% of these people and start over, but you have to let me do it, otherwise, I'm out. Did you do all that? Uh I started to and then you got out and eventually I was and it very shortly it was clear they were not allowing it. And so I was like, the you know, I took another role in the company, uh like lateral demotion type of role. Because I was like, It's okay to say you got demoted, bro. Yeah, it was it was not the best all the time role, and it and I was like so much healthier because of it, and then I knew it was politics. It was like I had taken over for a female, they needed females to be VPs, and I was like, I get it, but I'm the scapegoat because you guys is that when you let your hair grow in? Uh well, I let my beard grow. Yeah. Well, I got the gray. Is that when the is that on the muscle? You wear high heels from the bottom. No, we weren't allowed to have facial hair or yeah. So this is like that's like a new identity thing. It's way better. Oh, I own this identity for you. This is a this was a pivot. I just got rid of two suits last week. I've gotten rid of like 25 years. He's still got the brown polyester one in the closet. Oh, for sure. You gotta get pints, right? Yeah, yeah. It's not touching that one. No, that one's stand. Have have in in going through some of these, navigating some of these waters in life, have you had the opportunity to stick it to the man? Or have you thought about it? I didn't even think I never even thought about it. Yeah, it's like I don't I every job change that I've ever had, it was just two-week notice, two-week notice. I just moved on. It was like it didn't have time. Like leaving discount tire, here's a two-week notice. Scott in the golf barrel, told my buddy, hey, I'm leaving. Did you second guess the move? No, I don't second. I'm being honest. I don't second guess nothing. And I'm ready for whatever else is next. Yeah, I'll be straightforward. If like tires aren't it, if God's got something different for me, afterwards. Next week, TJ slinging donuts. I don't even care. Yeah. No, I I haven't. Me personally, I've never even with this. I wouldn't say like I second guess. Sometimes I sit around and wonder like what's what's the next step gonna look like? Like I even had that today, driving back from this event in Glendale. I was like, man, I was in a room full of brick and mortar mom and pop tire owners and a couple of us mobile guys, and just listening to them and and hearing about some of their things. I was just like, what's next? I mean, before we started this, I told these guys, I got to the office today and I told my son and my brother, I'm like, all right, guys, we're going brick and mortar shop and mobile. And they're like, what the heck's wrong with you? I'm like, uh, it just sounds good right now. And they're like, and in my mind, I'm like, man, I could make it work if I wanted to open up the shop here. We could just do tires here and just start taking appointments at the shop. I mean, I yeah, I'm just always like, my it definitely is a is not a it's not a downfall, but for me, I'm always like, all right, what's the next best you're restless? Yeah, like I've been doing this four years now. Like discount tire was so long, and then it's been like four years golf, five years foundry business, four years tire. And I'm like, all right, what's next? And that's part of the reason I invested in the golf club company. Um I was obviously hoping it would it would move along a little bit quicker, but there's some things just behind the scenes we need to work out. But I'm like, I'm really excited about that. I keep telling my son, like, hey man, I need you to kind of get up to it. I talked to my brother who's involved. I'm like, guys, we have an opportunity to like pass the baton. I'll still be involved, but you guys can run this day to day if if the golf thing can go, then kind of want to go do a lot of that. And and so yeah, I it I think it'd probably benefit my wife more if I would stop and just take a deep breath. I was gonna say you kind of make me think, and you guys have all been blessed to have the same wife, at least I think for 27. Yeah, I I didn't make it that long. But how does it impact your spouse? Or how does it I mean they pretty much slap you upside the head you're sleeping on the couch tonight? I'm the I'm the same way where I can't even tell her what else I'm thinking about. Because she'll be like, stop. Like I can't even tell her. And then I do tell her and she's like, Why didn't you tell me that before? It's just hard because like I it's just how I'm wired, and I I think that she you know, I I end up talking to her about like AI and stuff a lot, and she's like, Oh, you're a conspiracy theorist. I'm like, no, shit's for real. We're in the most pivotal time of mankind, and she's like, Oh, she rolls her eyes, like, um, you know, it's Fox News stuff, but CNN. But right, I think my business shelf life right now is probably two to five years, and I might be obsolete, obsolete, yeah, 100%, because what we do can be done by software or other tools. So I think I think we're strong for a while. I'm I'm going super hard, but I'm also like, hey, what's next? Like, what else is gonna happen? I think in your business right now, it's the most pivotal time, or if your business is subject to change via AI or automation, whatever, you gotta make a change. Yeah, like you're gonna be forced to. And if you don't make the change, then other things will force you to do it. Yeah. Well, we're we're in a good position. I don't have AI changing tires anytime soon. Until you have robots doing it. I mean, I would I'd hire them right now. You can't cut dry wool. Yeah. I always say, just getting back to your question, I always sit and tell everybody that'll listen, like Chris, my wife, is the author of every good decision I've made. So we've done it all together. We heavily rely on our faith and kind of like what the next step's going to be or what this step's gonna be, and try not to make decisions too quickly. Yeah. So, I mean, as far as the wife's concerned, but yeah, there's of course there's definitely been moments where I've had some crazy idea and she's like, nope, we're not doing that. You know, I've in the beginning when I was younger. And do you push back on those? We push back on each other, right? Like it's healthy. Yeah. Yeah, we push back. I own a mobile tire. I own a mobile tire, but you're not doing it. It wasn't like she it wasn't like she goes, go for it. What's a mobile timer? Are you sure this is what you want to do? I was like, Hey, this is what I know. It's text, it's trucks, it's mission critical, it's rapid response, it's all the things, right? So it just kind of fits. It just kind of fits what I know and what I love to do. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, okay, I can get behind that. How about the kids? The thing I've learned about my kids is they don't necessarily want to follow my footsteps. And I don't think it's and I've just kind of I'm good with that. Yeah. You know, they've seen dad work really, really hard for a long, long time, and I think they've all got great work ethics. You know, Matson, my oldest son, he's in the business, he loves it, he loves what he's doing, he loves helping people, he loves working with his hands. It's a great fit for him. And he's great at it. He's the man. And then uh Nate, you know, he's going into the military. That's what he that's where you know he wants to be a medic. So, you know, Carly wants to be a mom and wants to get back to the church. And so, like, just and I don't know, I don't think I ever really had this this this can this right perception or misconception that like that's what they needed to do. But I will say when I first initially started the business, I was like, hey, maybe the kids want to get into the business, maybe you know, kind of like what you're doing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've I I've learned even this year, my son and I had some hard talks, and I was like, all right, so maybe we just grow this thing and we sell it. Maybe we find a company that wants to buy it. Like, if you want to go do something different, you know, I kind of hog tied him into it. He was working for a discount tire, and I was like, all right, let's go do this. And he's like, so definitely, yeah. My vision doesn't have to be my kid's vision, which my oldest she worked for me for a little bit before she left. And she's like, Daddy, I don't like talking to people. I I don't want to answer the phones, I don't want to have to learn how to quote tires. See you later. I was like, all right, and my youngest, he helped out in the very beginning when we used to do a lot of enterprise tires, and he's like, Yeah, that's not for me, but you know, he wants to do uh Christian apparel and stuff, and I was like, I got the hookups in Thailand and China. I still know people, we can get going. So I think it's important too. I mean, your job's gonna be obsolete anyway by the time you're a kid, so don't worry about it. Like it's this is all about you, like just you. Yeah, because AI is gonna be running your job, so yeah, you're like kids, guess what? Figure it out on your own. Yeah, go go do your own. Everybody comes from different walks of life, too. Yeah, right. Right. So, like how they grow up in their households, you know. Like I could relate to you when you said, Hey, I grew up in an apartment, I grew up in an apartment, you know, like that kind of thing for a long time, at least a big part of my childhood. And for me, it was like, hey, roll up your sleeves, get a job, go out, make money, and that was as simple as it was. Yeah. I think had there been apartments in my hometown, I probably would we put them, but we didn't have apartments. It's too small of a town. And that's small houses. I don't think they've got them now, though. There are a couple of everywhere. A couple of them. What what type of process do you go through? I mean, and we've kind of talked about this, but what type of process do you go through when you're contemplating opening a new business or making a pivot in your mind? Or was it just really necessity? I mean, I think about myself, and I just got I got fired. I said, I'm fucking done. I'd do this myself. I don't need anybody to tell me what to do. I don't need anybody to tell me how to dress, how to show up, how to talk to people. I just do it myself. And I got let go because I was too opinionated. So you started a podcast. Yeah, imagine that. So I started a podcast. I'm opinionated. I don't know about you guys. I I think it's like what what are the it's almost down to the task level, like what do I want to do every day? What do I want to do? You know, and then it's what is out there in the market, right, that I can do or people to meet with businesses, and then I think you I think putting them together and saying, hey, this is the right fit for me. Like even now, I still like I work from home, but I I would love to be out more. Like just if I had 10 meetings a day and two events a week and golf once a week, and if I was just 95% out, that would that would be my my ideal position. I'm not, I'm still at home too much. So I'm like, I'm still not living like my ideal day-to-day business life. I'm at home too much. Yeah. It's like I'm still not where I need to be, where I'm just like out in the market constantly. But I think it's like, what are the tasks and skills you have, right? Like writing them down and then saying, hey, what's out there in the market? Unfortunately, I went through that exercise a little bit to land where I was, but I think a lot of people make a move and then they're like, Man, I don't want to do donuts or tires or insurance or whatever the case is, and then they then they're forced into making another move. But again, some people are shoot by the hip, some people are over analytical, so it there's no science behind it. Like you just have to make the move eventually. Take the shot. The only thing, the only thing you you have to be is like not afraid to fail. Yeah. Like no matter if you overanalyze it or if you just like go. And I I do kind of flippantly be like, I shot from the hip. My buddies, so I'm born and raised here, and the first time I ever went to Tucson, Arizona was when I started that foundry job. And it was March of 2017. I had to drive down there to visit four foundries, and my buddy in Nashville called me, and that's when he was like throwing this idea about Freedom Tire guys, mobile tires. They just left Discount Tire. And he was like, Bro, can you want to get in? And I was like, dude, this is the first month of a real job I've had since like I left golf apparel startup. That was a lot of fun, a lot of travel. But man, like my wife is super happy because I started this foundry job at more money than I ever made at Discount Tire. And I plus I got a brand new forerunner and I they paid for everything. So it was like, wow, a huge blessing. And uh he planted that seed, and I thought, I really thought, like, because I like I like I like to travel, I like people. I didn't know anything about foundry. The guy that hired me was just like, you can talk. So, and I mean, I I would walk into foundries and I'm like, I have no idea like what I'm supposed to be doing. You guys melt self here? I wasn't afraid to wasn't afraid to fail, but what I'm getting at is he planted this seed. So once 2020 hit and I couldn't travel, and I found myself smoking cigars and building chicken coop, that's what I basically did with my next door neighbor for forever. I did the Zoom calls at from five to eight, and my day was like done. Like no foundry guys answering emails, you know, those guys just aren't doing it. So I didn't have a whole lot to do, and then my wheels started turning. Okay, well, you know, tires, these guys have built a model out in Nashville, it's working really well. So then in 2020, I kind of 2021, I kind of reached out and so it wasn't like a full like I woke up one day, but I've been dabbling with it. I mean, you want to see the success behind it. Um, and I still think there's a lot of room for growth in the mobile tire market, but I wasn't afraid to fail. Like basically, I was like, I'm tired of doing what we're doing. This isn't very fun, it's not fulfilling. Poor poor wife. She's like, gosh, dang it. And I mean, we bought a van, I drove it home, and I didn't have like customers. Like we started going to rental car companies, so we did Hertz for two weeks, and then I just walked in and lied to the guy that was running Avis rental car. I was like, hey, someone told me to come in and see you about, you know, and he's like, Well, go talk to those guys. So I walked 400 yards to the back of the lot, and before I know, first month in business we're changing 60, 70 tires a day for a rental car company, trying to figure out how to do residential, but we were like, who cares? We have a job. Then I got fired from them, and lo and behold, the one little business card I dropped off in March previous at Enterprise, a week after I got fired from Avis for some things, uh, they called me and said, Hey, we need someone to change tires, lots of tires, probably a couple hundred a week. And I was like, Yeah, I know a guy. So just kind of like, you know, that's kind of how it's been for us. But yeah, I think the the you no matter what, because I'm not an analytical, um, and I don't think I don't I don't really write lists. There's no such thing. Like it's just like, okay, can we do it? Sure, I can do this. But I think in the back of my mind, I knew like I'm not afraid to fail. Like, I'm not afraid, and that's where you know, when I left discount, that's kind of how it's been like, I'll figure out golf apparel. And I did. I mean, I sold Mesa Chambers, Sally, and I have known her now for for a long time. I started selling them polos, and I mean we were doing Alice Cooper's tournaments. I mean, we were gang busting, we had LPGA players, it was a lot of fun. But we weren't afraid to fail. And then the foundry business, I was like, I'm gonna fake it until I make it. Yeah, same thing with the tire, like we'll figure out how to how to do it. So I think that's what runs deep into entrepreneurs is is deep down inside you know that you could wake up and it could be over. Like you just run out of money. You're just like, well, it wasn't it now what? Now what? So let's talk about corporate, because we've all been corporate to an extent. I mean, I'll say discounts corporate, although you're in a the Morgan Morgan Advanced Material, that was more corporate than anything. Well, that's true. Yeah, that was that was crazy life. I'd I'd never experienced, I mean, at Discount Tower, I never had to do PowerPoint presentations. Like we would we would have to do uh sales meetings, all the guys from across the streets. Did you have to wear a tie and stuff? Yeah, yeah. When I when I started, I started insurance 30 years ago and I started with farmers insurance. I was an auto claims adjuster. We had to wear white shirts and a dark tie. Oh yeah. And I go to frickin' salvage lots in a white shirt and a dark tie. Yeah. I'd be like, this is stupid. Who made this decision? Who decided this is a good idea? We fought that forever. I think finally they they allow them to wear polo shirts now, but corporate crap. I used to sell recruiting, like staffing, and I'd go into foundries and like machine shops and suit and tie, middle of the summer, 94 degrees, walking in the back of a foundry, you know, flames shooting, machines running everywhere, and I'm just like in my dress shoes, in my suit coat, sweating my ass off. They're like, You want to take your coat off? Like, we're not allowed to. We have to wear it. Like it's it's crazy because I go back and forth. I mean, I wear t-shirt and jeans every day. And I go back and forth, like, should I wear polo? Should I dress a shot? Shirt or no shirt? No shirt. Walk around with my my single ab. Single ass kegger. I got a keg. I'm building a shop. It's okay. But how how much does that mean, right? I mean, you get these large corporations where it's like you've got to wear a shirt and tie, you've got to wear your jacket into a foundry. Think about going to a foundry. I mean, I think about dealing with contractors because I deal with contractors all day. If I show up in a shirt and tie, I mean, does that garner me more respect or do they I mean you're in construction, does that speak to you? No, no, and and I've never honestly been in that environment. I've never been like in the financial services or the insurance, I've always been in the trades. So like the I think the the the most has been Apollo, some slacks, you know, when you're kind of running one of those businesses. In some of my private equity engagements, certain situations call for a jacket and a button up shirt, you know. But outside of that, I I really can't relate to that component of it. One company that I worked for. Was very, I think, trying to be corporate in their mindset, and and I don't know that it really worked that well, but I think there's you know, there's benefits to it, right? Like there's a lot of security to having a job like that. Oh, for sure. There's a lot of mentorship that goes on in jobs like that. People start there and then they end up being entrepreneurs just like us. So I see the value of it, but I don't know that I relate to it directly. I think a lot of the companies that I've worked for have been kind of pods of a corporation that, or you know, even if I was on the other side of it on the executive team, I promoted that. Like, hey, be your own small business, be your own, don't outdress your employees, don't outdress your your audience, kind of a mindset. Yeah, I just I just struggle with I mean, I and I'll take it back. I heard I heard somebody talking about our education system and talking about how the education system doesn't teach you to be successful, it teaches you to follow instruction. Right. So I think about taking that and and moving that into a corporate world where it's like, okay, and and I get, I mean, if I'm running a business, I want people to do things a certain way, right? And we have there's there's uh time-tested uh processes and procedures and things that we need to do, right? And and I don't necessarily and well, and I have a uh a person that I know quite well who does a speech and he talks about coffee stains, and he says everybody's got a coffee stain, and coffee stains a first impression, right? We never have a chance to make a first second first impression. First, second, first impression. But it's one of those things where I sit and I think about it, I like I I don't know. It's like for me, can't we just be who we are, right? Without having to pretend like we're something else in order to garner whatever it is. And and I struggle with it because I I just feel like I am who I am. If you don't like it, I you know, whatever. But I don't know how you guys view that. But what if that's growing you? It could be. Like what if like what if that environment's growing you to I mean, I'm talking about like the corporate you're 20-something, you just got out of school, you get this corporate job, yeah, teaching you. You never had to present a PowerPoint, you never had like so. I think it has its place. I could see that. Yeah. I mean, it for sure, like we were all a bunch of 22-year-olds in my corporate company, and so to that point I I got into leadership like at 23, 24, but I I was taught like within six months, I I I was told, hey, people like you, but do they respect you? I probably said this on yeah, you said that on my podcast. People like you, but do they respect you? And I was like, fuck you. That that said that on my podcast. He said that on the episode of the podcast. It is he texts me and he goes, It lives rent-free in my brain. And I want to know. I mean, people like me, right? I know that. Yeah. I mean, I'll give you a money. How the fuck do you not give you my money? And and are you gonna ask them? Right. Dude, I or is it or is it defined by if they buy from you? I fucking hate you. Does your phone ring? I mean, maybe that's like, maybe that's respect. Yeah, I know it does, right? So do people show up on time when they're gonna meet with you? I mean, I guess. Dude, I we were here on time, bro. Don't hire Bob and J. Why are you bringing that? You called me, you don't even know my name. Oh, okay, Jan. Do you like me or do you respect me? But I did tell Jay that we were sitting in the park and I was like, let's just wait 10 minutes and see what Jan does. Yeah, he did. It was more me. I was like, where are these guys? I'm just sitting here. Bob was here way early. Yeah. But I I cannot show up late because I was trained at 22. They're like, we started at 7:30, so I show up at 7 o'clock, 7.15. And I'm like, if I make 10 more calls than the people next to me between 7 o'clock and 7.30, I'm gonna beat them. If I make 20 more calls from 7.30 to 8 o'clock, I'm gonna beat them. I'm like, I'm just gonna beat them in the ground through my discipline. And I did that at I did that at 22, 23, 24, so it set me on a trajectory of like moving into leadership, those habits. But at some point I was like, I'm not even being my authentic self. Because I got so after that conversation about they like you but do they respect you, I was like, I'm gonna rip faces off and I will punish people if they don't do what I say. And it served me for a while, but then it was like the panic attack and other stuff. I was like, I'm just not being my authentic self. Interesting. And I was a good leader. Uh I mean there was moments where I was a great leader, but when I when I pushed beyond being my authentic self, then I was an asshole. And it was like, I was like, that's not me. And that's when it hurt me personally, it hurt my family probably, and I just showed up in a di in a way that was not my genuine self. And so I think there's a discipline to it. Uh I I used to carry razors in my esque, and if someone didn't shave every day, I was like, here's your razor, I was like, go shave. Really? Just like that. I was like, Really? I was like, here's a razor, I was like, dude, like they're like, I shaved last night. I'm like, you didn't shave this morning. I'm like, go shave. I would have walked out the door and saying he's the dude we all talk about right now. Dude, I'd be like, who are you? Yeah. I know literally. I was like, who am I? I would be like, You're actually kind of a pleasure to be around now. Yeah. I mean, kind of the key word. Well, somewhat. Somewhat. Yeah, but it's the balance of you know, you you know, being a better version of yourself, but like still being authentic. Well, were you doing that because that was what was modeled for you? Yeah, I just want to be the best. So I was like, everything I did, I was just like, I just am gonna do the best shit I can at everything I do. So I'd show up at seven o'clock or six thirty, and I was like, I'll make more calls. Whoever shared an office with me, I felt bad for him because I was like, get on the phone. Like, but I but I I was I made the mistake because years later, someone may or may not have been my wife, she said, Stop trying to make them like you. And I was like, damn, that's because I was like, they're they're not like you. Well, not her, she knows better. She would never go there. But it was like everyone's different, and like I want to get the best out of you, but it doesn't have to be on my terms or the way I do it. Wouldn't like who are you? That's what you were kind of saying. Yeah, but who were you serving in that moment when you're handing a guy a razor and saying go shave? Is it the company? That was not that was the company, 100%. But if I shared an office with someone, I was like, I'm gonna show you how to work hard, and that was the right mentality. The way I did it was probably not the best. Yeah, were you willing to listen to people when they had ideas outside of what yours were? Oh no. I mean it's crazy to no, because I but because I was because I was trained that way. Yeah, like my auth, my real me was like, hey, if you you need to get 10 meetings next week, I don't care how you do it, just tell me how you're gonna do it. Yeah, and you want 24 hours to tell me, you want 48 hours? That's the real me. It's like tell me how you want to do it. And if you're like, dude, I don't know how to do it, then I'll help you. But that's the corporate I know, yeah. Well, no, that's the real me. What I should have done. The corporate me would have been like, do this, do that, do this. You have five minutes to do it, and then I'm gonna check in on you, and then you're gonna. I mean, that was how I was delivering it, was the corporate way, versus I should have been like, hey, how can you get to this end result? So I was actually talking to somebody about this today because it was like we have an opportunity to bring somebody in and help us with our processes because we've taken on a new vertical in the business, and so it's like, hey, how do we transition to being really good at this? Chicken coops and create, yeah, chicken coops, we're building chicken coops. How do we how do we get really good at this and create at least a similar customer experience to what we did, you know, in our legacy side? And as I was thinking through it and I was talking about it, I go, look, I think what I'm what I'm trying to get at, and this is what I meant by the corporate comment, was like my heart is to mentor people, my heart is to help people develop and to grow and to get to the next step and whatever it is, whatever that means to them. What I don't want to do is create a culture of like KPI driven, you got to get this done, worry your numbers, because I don't first of all, it doesn't make anybody feel good. Second of all, I don't even know how productive it is. Like I think I think then you are becoming about the money, you're not becoming about what your kind of core values are and and you know why you started off. And and I know everybody, not everybody has teams and all that kind of stuff, but with that being said, you have a team, you have an obligation to that team. How are you developing in that team? What does your leadership style look like? And if it's like coming from the right place, then people will want to do what you want them to do. Yeah. But I also have to imagine you're like, you hire smart people, not so I listen to Bob all the time either. Yeah. I mean, that's a mistake. Yeah, that's a mistake we all make. Is like, and I've been hired to do something, and then they're like, no, no, no. And I'm like, bitch, you hired me to do this. Like, why are you telling me no? That was my last job before I started the agency. I was hired, and I specifically told them if you're looking for somebody to do this, that's not me. I'm gonna do this. Because if you want me to do this, I will stay where I'm at, I'll build my book of business, I'm perfectly fine. Right. As soon as I got on board, it was what what I said I wouldn't do. Yeah, it was what I said I wouldn't do, and I'm and we butt head heads for a year and a half. Finally, she let me go, but it was it was because I mean, every conversation we had was I'm not going to work to somebody for su to sell. If I if I'm if I'm going anywhere to just to sell business, I'm gonna go work for myself, but I'll come help you build this divid, you know, division and blah blah blah. As soon as I got on board, how come you're not selling? It's like that's not why you hired me. You know, right? It's like you hired me to manage this opportunity and grow this piece of the business, and I just and I wouldn't move. I'm like, I'm not, it's like you, you know, you had this multi-million dollar book of business over there, you should have just brought it with you because I could have. And I'm like, no, I'm not gonna yank my clients around because you saw an opportunity, right? So did you tell her that or did you just oh no, I told her. I told her. Yeah, we we went round and round and butted heads for for months, months and months. And then uh, she called me into the office, she sit me down, and her little guy was with her. Little HR guy? Yeah, and well, he was yeah, another manager, and uh she's like, You need to talk. And I'm sitting there, and and he had a notepad and a paper. He's like and he's like writing things down. I'm like, Do I need to get paper to write on? No, I don't think you'll and she had an envelope next to her. I'm like, we're just talking, and I look at her and I go, Are you letting me go? And she goes, Well, you have to understand. I'm like, Are you fucking letting me go right now? Oh my god. Never been there, right? He said, just stop right there. I don't need any other BS. I will get my shit and I'll be out in an hour. Yeah. Stood up, walked out of the room. Yeah. But it but But the dude, the thing about that is, is it's like the one word that over the last five years for me has been like transparency. Yeah. And you or you or that situation is like there's just not enough transparency. Yeah. We used to call it feedback back in my corporate days, like you know, giving someone feedback, but then feedback turned into this forced conversation where, like, hey, you gotta go tell them feedback. And there was this corporate rigament roll about we gotta give everyone feedback, and it was not authentic. But if you have a team, like the best thing you can do is just have transparency. Yeah, period. Well, and allow feedback without repercussion for sure, good and bad, right? I I mean, I tell people all the time, look, I'm not perfect, I just do shit because it's the way I've always done it. If you see something we can do better, tell me. But don't just say this sucks, right? Right. Say this sucks, but I think we could do this and we better. Well, I I would always say, Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. Yeah. And I don't mean literally, don't bring me problems, but if you bring me a problem, have anything. Give me a solution. Like give me back it up. I'm all for it. Right. I I will back you 100% if you give me a solution with the problem or even say, I have this idea, I think we could possibly do this, and we'll vet it. If it doesn't work, good. If it does, awesome. Yeah. You know, and that and I'm going through that right now with AI stuff. It's like trying to figure out, okay, because there's a lot of redundancy in what we do. It's like, how can we get AI to do some of this work that doesn't necessarily have to be keystroked by somebody sitting at a desk? Right. Anyways. So good stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I I've got a question for you, Ted. Because because being yes, being in sales. Help me with your gooder question. And and and maybe TJ, you could answer this too. I bet he's got great peanut butter jelly donuts. You have peanut butter and jelly donuts? No, the real TJ. I got encrustibles. I'm just kidding. No, but seriously, and Bob, you may know too. But you talk about pounding the phones, and I've never, and I've been in sales for 30 years. I have never liked pounding phones. In fact, I hate it with a passion. I don't do it. I haven't done it with my business at all. Even ex-clients. It's like I'm not doing that. How do you get past the no, the constant no? I mean, because it's what do they say? 103-1? Yeah. 10 calls, three yeses, whatever your ratios are. Yeah. How do you do how do you deal with that? I think it's just more about a mentality. It's more about like anyone that I've ever mentored or shared an office with, I'm like, you're just looking at this the wrong way. You're looking at this as like a task, or I'm like, if you look at it as a game or as a challenge or as a contest, like I'm like, did you play sports? Yeah. I played soccer, football. I'm like, why did you play? Right? Because of the thrill of the win and this and I'm like, then look at not everyone used to hire athletes, right? You know, football players or not all athletes transfer into business because their prowess on the field doesn't always translate into the office setting. But if you have the mentality shift that you're like, this is a game, or you're competitive, or whatever the case is, a it's mentality, and then B, it's the you only fail or get nervous or anxiety by not being prepared. So so much of it is just preparation. I I like I like I I have always liked cold calling. People don't like to be sold, but they like to talk, right? And so your email ratios, if you run email campaigns, is like one percent hit rate on email campaigns, and then it's you know five percent of that. So your ratios are are are dwindle in emails, but phone calls, your ratios go way up, right? And it's really just about mentality and preparation. And so I I called a lady today, actually, she's at a school system, and I looked up how many students they have, how many employees they have. I looked up because all the school stuff's public, and so I was prepared for the call, and she was like, and I caught her off guard and she was surprised. And I and speaking of pivot, I was like, I had to talk to my audience. So she's a payroll manager, probably in her you know, 50s or 60s, and so I was like, Hey, how's it going today? Like, how's your day? And you know, I kind of warmed the conversation up. We just chatted, and so we're on the phone for seven minutes, which is a long call, and and I was finally like, I finally got into my my sales spiel, and she immediately got squeamish, and you know, but I it's really just about you know, mentality and and preparation, but people want to be talked to, yeah, right, they just don't want to be sold. L LJ, how do you get business? Are you referral? Do you guys do outbound sales? Yeah, and I said LJ. Yeah, well, I was confused. I was like, Yeah, like wait a second, wait, wait, not TJ. How do you sell donuts? Wait a minute. TJ's gonna listen to this and be like, what the heck happened? Like it was way back in the introduction. Yeah, you know, I probably should. Uh sales for us now are pretty much just like word of mouth. I mean, we have a quite a few fleet accounts, but uh like our biggest one was just me handing out business cards for rental car companies because I knew that that was a good ticket item, but I don't really do a whole lot of I don't like to do stuff like that, which is why I'm it's May, May, and I procrastinate. I have a list of businesses within a 10 mile radius that I just need to walk in, and I just hate it. I always feel like I have something else that needs to get done because in my foundry days, my first trip I ever took, I had to go into Southern California and I had to go into Salesforce and I printed off 86 foundries that were in there. And I had to I had to do in four days, I had to basically map quest and figure out and I drove around and out of 86 foundries, I think half of them were closed. They had gone under in California's Camifornia, and they just they couldn't meet EPA regulations, and I just kept walking in. Like I and I I don't mind walking in and just kind of talking to people, but it's the whole adage that you said is people don't want to they'll talk to you, they just don't want to be sold. And in the tire business, it it is easy to approach people that go, I'm not trying to sell you a tire, I'm just trying to sell you convenience for your people and for your employees and to save you downtime because best options reper built different restorations um pivot. You know, if his guys are out on a job site, how much does it cost in his company? Right. That's what I just tell people is like, look, the $60 mobile fee, I'm gonna go put four tires on while your crew is still working or before they leave the yard is way too much. I will I will tell you. I mean, you you guys came and changed Christine's tires. Yeah, she came and goes, she's calling everybody. She's like, I didn't have to leave the house. They came to my house and changed the tires. And I'm like, I was telling her, I'm like, we'll just have we'll have LJ bring come out and salesperson. We'll have them come out and change tires. And she's like what we're hoping. I gotta schedule it, I gotta do this. I'm like, why? You're home on Fridays, you're working from house on Fridays, just have them come out. Just oh, but I gotta do this, do this, do this. It's like okay. Finally, she's like, okay, I just need to have them come out. And then she was like it was a big deal, right? Like, oh yeah, yeah. Like it's planned out. I'm like, well, because because in her mind, it's going to big O or to discount or whoever it is, waiting for two hours while you're, you know, while they're doing whatever it is they do, you know. Hell, I went to whoever it was the other day, discount to have my tires filled on the truck. Yeah, it took me 35 minutes to get through there. Through that little line. Yeah. And I was like, I just I had the light came on. I'm like, I just need to get a tie. And I didn't want to pull out my my compressor to turn on the so I thought I'll just pull in there quick. 35 minutes. Yes. It's I mean, we we bank on word of mouth in this in this business for sure. I mean, I've I've I've yeah, it's word of mouth. I mean, we some businesses that we've got is because they know other people in the industry and they're like, hey, call these guys. So I'm not a I I'm a people person, but I'm not a I'm not a cold call. I'm like you cringe at I'm like I hate it. So note to self if anyone wants a a commission-based sales job, come see me at Moby Tire. Did Ditto at Foundation Insurance? Yeah. Huge salaries. I have a I have a great compensation. Big salaries. Company car tires or tires. It ain't much of a salary, but I got a really I mean I have a base salary I'd pay, but anyway, I just don't want to do it. Free insurance, free tires. Yeah, free. I free insurance, free tires. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Bob, how about you? How do you guys get business? Well, first of all, I just want to say I met you at an event, at an APN event. Yeah. And I was like, I like this guy. It's authentic. Um, I don't know if you remember that, but when we first met. Hey man, I'm just saying getting a little bit uncomfortable. I know it's the drinks. One more one more peanut butter and jelly. So, yeah, more P PB and J. And then we gave you guys a shot, and I won't go anywhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So wherever our guys are, you'll come out to them. And you're right. Them being productive on the job site, you know, that opportunity cost that we would lose if we were sitting in line at discount. It's a no-brainer. But same for your team. I mean, you guys, we've we've been in four or five different houses, and we've my wife's interior decorator, we've had lots of contractors and stuff, and same for your guys. I mean, you guys, restoration is an emergency, panic. Oh my god, what's it gonna cost me? And like, you know, your whole team, like you're in the right business because of your approach and the leadership you've given to your guys. I mean, they show up the same way, and it made it super seamless. They were like talking to the right audience, but I but I think that's why I mean we're all in different businesses, which makes it nice. And I think the approach and how you sell and how you get business. Like, I would always refer you guys having done your tires, but I mean, that's yeah, I think so much is word of mouth now because what we do and the networking that we do and the word, you know, social media and Facebook. I mean, that's everything is based on reputation and the experience they have, and so that's why I don't I'm not afraid. I mean, it's funny because you guys talk about like not selling, it's just a weird, it's a it's a fine balance. And even you said that to me before, like a while back. You're like, I hate selling, I hate cold calling. I'm like, why don't you ask me for my business? And you're like, I don't know. But it's like maybe I'm afraid of rejection, right? Right. I I mean I I don't ask people for business. I mean, really. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. I'm like, but you just save me like a couple hundred bucks a month. What the heck's wrong with you? I know, yeah. Gee, way to do yourself a favor. Way to not ask for business. I'm just I I guess maybe it's a it's an individual. Thing like a worthiness thing or something. I don't know. You're worthy of insurance. We like you. We just don't respect you. I understand. How do you get business? What is it like? Well, I'm still learning for sure. But I mean, you had Brian on your podcast a couple weeks ago. He drinks a lot of beer. It's fine. It's when he's at his best. Fine. I met Brian through another member, Mark, with uh Cardinal Clean. He's an APN guy. And he I just said, Hey, I'm looking for somebody that does business development. Do you know anybody? He's like, I know a guy. I don't know how interested he is in coming back into the industry. I know he's kind of taking some time away, but you know, we met, took a little coursing on my side to kind of because he was had some bad experiences in the past with other restoration companies. And he was, you know, he for him, like what mattered to him was like, Hey, I just want to make sure that I have time to be take my kids to school in the morning, you know, sometimes pick them up from school and all of that. And I'm like, You got it. Yeah. So he came in and he's really helped us definitely commercially, but he's just a relationship guy. I mean, he's just a guy that like all like everybody here, just somebody you want to hang out with, somebody you want to be around. And then also Shayna, she's a she's a phenomenal brand ambassador, she's our marketing manager, and you know, they've both been in the market for a long time. Met Shayna very early on. Whenever I first opened the business, I went to a Mesa Chamber deal. She was there, she actually reached out to me. Just thought she was like the friendliest person ever. And so both of them go out and they do business development. And then, you know, from there it's it's a lot of word of mouth. And then, you know, we continuously try to work on some of our online presence and marketing and things of that nature. So I would say a combination of those things, and then you know, if you do a good job, people tell people about you. Yeah. So I had a guy, I had a guy asked me one time, he's like, you know, how how involved are you in the claims process? It's like, Really, I'm not. I mean, you know, we get calls typically if a client has a water loss, let's say, they're calling like they're calling restoration companies like right now. I need somebody to get rid of this, right? And then we're dealing with the restoration company, we get the claim filed, but then from there, it's hands off unless something's not being taken care of. Sure. We get a lot of situations where the contractor just disappears and it's like, okay, how do we get this back on track? But it's it's interesting. So but finding good restoration companies, honest restoration companies, is tough. It's tough. And I like Brian, I Brian's one of my favorite people. I mean, he's awesome. So how how is how has pivoting 26 times? Yes. How has that changed your your view or your perception of success or what success can be? I guess I can go first on this one. So what I'm really learning is how to be in a small business. Never done that before. And kind of how small the world is and how small the community is. And the people just hold on to every little thing as to where I was kind of came from a world where I was like thinking of things more globally, right? So I would say that's my biggest opportunity to continue to learn is uh and I think you just kind of do it one customer at a time, one opportunity at a time. I focus more on that than I do any kind of like outside noise. I don't know if that addresses your question directly, but for me, that's the first thing that came to mind whenever you said that was what am I learning right now? And how has it kind of changed my perspective? You know, I'm not reporting up to a board of directors anymore, I'm not putting together a quarterly deck that tells them how the business is doing. My board of directors are is my team now. Yeah. I have another question for you, but we'll let you guys answer. Yeah. What was the question? I forgot, so I was gonna let you go. No, I mean it's about you said pivoting. It's about I think it's about pivoting. Has pivoting changed your idea or your perspective of success? What it is? Has pivoting changed my idea of success? What is success to you? I don't know if I ever asked you what your idea was success was. Uh right now, at 45 years old with some life experience, grown adult kids, a wife that's put up with me since we were 17. It's it has nothing to do with my business. Absolutely zero to do with my job. You should take care of your wife. I I am trying my best to love her the way Christ loves the church and be very my wife is put up with so I think she's pretty good looking. Man, work is business. This business thing is just business thing. I swear to goodness, I could pivot tomorrow and just go do something different. My life wouldn't, as long as my as long as my my faith is grounded, my relationship with my wife is grounded, that that's success to me, man. Yeah, I honestly I don't I don't care about not that I don't care enough, like I want to see the business succeed, and I love the idea of my son and my because I got my son, brother, and nephew working for that. I love the idea of that. That's a great idea, but I've taken a lot of things for granted over the years, and I've done a lot of things that you know without asking for anyone's permission. I think at the end of the day, man, success is uh success is is hanging out with my family, being with my wife. My wife just started going, she went back to school this year to be an herbologist. She loves natural medicine. And so, like seeing her at 45 years old go, I want to do something different. That's that's success to me. I'm like, I'm just trying to make a paycheck and grow a brand and be the cool tire guy. But success is is success is having a Christ-centered home with a wife that puts up with me and kids that that want to yeah, grow up and be good contributing members. I don't know, it's it's really overly simple. I love that. Going home tonight, having dinner and watching a show with my wife, that's successful to me because I can be very selfish and I can be very self-motivated and I could get lost. And the first time I took a call on a Saturday and I changed tires for a guy because I thought those two trailer tires on a Saturday after I drove from Signal Butin Ray to by the airport to pick up two tires in the mobile tire van to go back out by my house and change two tires for 210 bucks. And I walked in and Melissa looked at me and she goes, I thought you said you weren't gonna work weekends. I was like, Ugh. She's like, You said that, and I was like, you know what? You're right. And so success is it has nothing to do with Moby tire. It's a great opportunity, it's a platform. And I'll shut up after this. But my son had the opportunity to go. There was a lady that had a blowout tire, and we couldn't get her a tire, so she ubered to Walmart, bought the tire, and then had to Uber back to her house, and she had no money. And so my son, my this is success. My son says, Dad, I just mounted it for her for free and told her, like, just we just get to work safe tomorrow when you get back to work. We're we're happy to help you out. That's he was like, it felt that is freaking out. I was like, son, yeah, if we can use this platform to bless others, then just go do it. We're not we're not so hungry about you know, a hundred and hundred and twenty dollar mobile fee and service call. Like, we're not that's not us. So that was six super. I went home and told my wife, I was like, man, Ganon did this, and you know, he's a smart kid, but that that's successful too. But the but the fact that your kid carries on what I would say is a generational legacy of compassion. Sure, 100%. You know, that that's more important to me than you know how much money we put in, you know. Yeah, I mean, those are all I need those things. Like my rent. Right, right. The the six thousand dollars a month in van payments isn't going. I love when people go, oh, it must be easy. You don't have a you don't have a brick and mortar shop. And I go, I drive around in six thousand dollars worth of vans, like yeah, you gotta make the money, that's your rent. So, but that's that's success to me. Yeah, is my family and and uh yeah, just going home at night, yeah, and seeing seeing my kid grow like that and and take on roles and responsibilities and be compassionate towards other people. That's awesome. Did you want to add something? Yeah, no shit. I mean, I I know these guys enough, I've hung around them enough to know we're all similar in that aspect of like family and meeting these guys, like we have a blast when we first met, and I've golfed for them a bunch and done a bunch of stuff, and I think we're all different in a way, but same in the way that you know we I've met their wives, I've met their kids, and vice versa. And that's what's cool about this. It's like we we all do different things, we're all a little different, but you know, these guys are close friends and they are super human beings, and I think just getting our our kids, and I I know theirs are already doing good shit, is like getting our kids not to do my business because I don't know the mine well, but just show up and be good human beings, and and what the pivot was from like when we were growing up, my my parents and they were like, You need to go into sales. And I was like, Okay, turned out they were right, and I did well. Doesn't always work that way, but for my kids, I'm like, hey, think differently, challenge yourself, be a good human, teaching them to shake hands, look people in the eye, call them yes or no, sir, because that skill is is gone uh for this younger generation. And I say that not to sound like an old man, but it's just true. Yeah, they're buried in their devices and they don't know how to interact with humans. So the greatest skill moving forward, and and where my wife is a badass and does amazing things and teaches the kids the same thing is just teach them to be good humans, have really good character, and then whatever they want to do professionally, you know, God bless them and I'll help them be the best, whatever they want to do, right? They don't have to, and they probably won't do exactly what I do. But yeah, just yeah, that means that success is like having them for a while there. I was like, I'm working hard to make money for my family, but then I got so buried in my own corporate, you know, working 80 hours a week. I'm like, this is not for my family. This is not at all for my family. You want to know the ultimate. I never shared this with anybody. But you talking about that September 11th, 2001. I was in the airport getting on an airplane when the Twin Towers were hit. The world shut down. I went run out of a rental car, drove to Vegas because I had appointments I needed to get to in Vegas, and I should have stayed at home. And I that eats me every day, like thinking about that, right? My responsibility was to be at work and not be there for the family. And it's crazy because I think about that. Where it's like you saying that, I mean, looking back now, I mean I screwed up my life in more ways than I could ever admit. But those are little things like I I would take back. If I could if I could go back and go, don't go to fucking Vegas. Nobody nobody's going anywhere. But I I literally walked out of the airport after standing there watching the Twin Towers fall, went to the rental car counter, rented a car, drove to Vegas. Did you have any appointments that still took you? Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, it was nuts. It was nuts. But I think about that and I think my my kids were young at that time. So um Bob, I had a question for you because and this just kind of popped into my head. When we were talking about sales, of all of us, I feel like your business is probably the most cyclical with regards to when you think about restoration, right? Weather type losses. How do you combat dead times? Or do you have dead times? Are you guys busy with stuff all the time? Yeah. I mean, we've definitely had those mornings where we kind of look at each other and go, what are we gonna do today, right? I think everybody's probably been through that. Um, as time's gone on, that's become less and less. So that's definitely a blessing. Some of the things that we did as we introduced duck cleaning was like, hey, this is something that we could because for me, and I'll I've said this so many times, it's like I just want to make sure that the guys have hours. That's kind of like as simple as I make it. If the guys have hours, they're out there. I mean, naturally they're producing revenue if they have hours. Right. So part of that was like, hey, let's get into duct cleaning. So we went and got all the certifications, and that's actually you know worked out pretty well. In fact, it's like, hey, maybe we just need somebody that's doing that now. Weather definitely creates surge, but over time, you know, one thing is about Arizona, and I think anybody in restoration would tell you this these houses aren't built great. No, they're built like and then we do a lot of multifamily, so there's a lot less care given by renters and things of that nature, so we run into things there as well. So, you know, knock on wood, it's it's it's been pretty consistent through what was last year a very slow time for us. And I think just time goes on, right? Like in your business becomes more relevant and people remember you, and then they tell somebody about you, and and so hopefully you're building that goodwill over time. Who are you laughing at? No, no, you you related to it? Yeah, because I he's getting into windshields anytime. Yeah, no, I've had people ask me if I'm gonna do mobile oil changes, and then a lot I would say pretty much every mobile tire other company out there now, they they do brakes and they're they do everything. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. I refuse to do that. But I I was talking to Melissa before I came, and I was like, Yeah, I came home, I came back to the office and I told the boys, like, let's open up a brick and mortar store. And she just goes, Hey, she goes, You've been in business like four years. It's not like it's been an eternity, and it's not like mobile tires are like this big, like you're not fighting like off a hundred different companies. She goes, eventually it'll just people will tell people tell people, and then just like you know, Uber Eats. I would never pay the money for it, but right it caught on, right? Like Uber Inc. and lifting, like that stuff. Like you were just like, no, I'll take the cab and just catches on. So she just kept me grounded with like you're so you know, I'm looking at the schedule for tomorrow. I'm like, oh my gosh. And the thing with tires is like nobody, nobody. I mean, yeah, I'm you guys planning out like three days in advance was huge. We get we started like the day off with like two or three jobs last Thursday, I think, and we ended up with 13 jobs. Wow, because you get into work and everyone's like, Oh, I gotta do this, I gotta do this, and it took me back to my discount tire days where I was like, we would do that, we'd unlock the door and be like, Well, I guess it's gonna be a slow day, and then halfway through the day, we're like, holy crap, someone opened up the floodgates because nobody likes to deal with tires until it's like you have to deal with it. So I've learned to just be content with the with the slow days. My guys get paid sometimes to sit in the break room and sit on their device for an hour because I'm like, well, you know, it'll come, and if it doesn't, then go home and we'll come back tomorrow. So I think just pay. I just laughed because that's what was told to me about two hours ago is look, it's gonna be just fine. You're not, you know, you're not 20 years into this, just like losing out every day. I'm like, oh yeah, you're probably right, baby. And I also think there's something to this like build it and it will come mindset. So like right now, we've just added another van. We've got the guys to go into the van. We know we're coming into the summer months, and traditionally that's been a busier time. Yeah. So, you know, I'm kind of thinking, like, hey, if we're feeling pretty pushed right now, that we need to build some capacity so that way we're not stretching the team too thin, right? But don't be afraid to take that step to say, hey, I want to grow my business. Well, how do you grow your business in our world? Like one truck can only do so much revenue, can only do service so many customers in a day. So the only way to expand that is to expand the capacity. So you got to kind of build that, and then hopefully, if you're doing the right things, then you're gonna get more business and it'll come. But it's a big step, especially when you're the one foot in the bill, right? So yeah. Well, that's I mean, that's that's a tough thing, right? When you when you have to make payroll still. Yeah. What have have there been situations where either publicly or privately the shit hit the fan and you had to deal with it? How how did you deal with it? How do you how do you save face, so to speak? These are not in work. Yeah. Public uh sorry, babe. Sorry, babe. No, I'm not are you saying like are you talking about like in work and hit the fan? Yeah, no, at home in the resident. Yes, at work. Yeah. I want to I just want to hear you. Aren't you like the a one-man show? I would love to hear about the the data. Susie, just in my yeah, when I'm when I'm battling in the mirror, I'm like, you idiot. Why'd you do that? Go shave struggle with that. Go shaves. Like, why'd you do that? Here's your razor, dumbass. Yeah. Exactly. How do you like it? Do you like it? Wham, wham. Yeah. Oh, so you had time to golf. No, that actually is my struggle. I'm like, why am I golfing on a Tuesday at 9 a.m.? That's so dumb. That actually is my hardest. I'm like, why did I agree to this? I'm a yes man, so if someone asks me to do something, I'm like, sure. Same way. Today I was at something and I was like, why am I even here? Like in the moment, it sounds great. And if you ask me to do something, I'm likely gonna say yes, and then as my worst, I'm my own worst enemy. Yeah. So privately, I'm my own worst enemy. Yeah. And I knew that I knew there was something behind it. Like 100% banned. Oh, it's but it's true. Like I'll want to do something or do something, and then you know, it it turns out to be not the right move. But yeah, I mean, dealing with clients is and our clients are very different, right? But my my clients, if they need tires or they need insurance, like they're not shopping for what I'm doing. So I'm constantly having to no one's ever said, Oh, that's dumb. Saving money is dumb. It's always, oh, that's great, it sounds great. But then when they go back to their list of things to do, none of it is it's low priority, right? And so I'm always having to sell them on the idea of saving five thousand dollars a month or two hundred thousand dollars a year, and and so it's dragging them through the glass to go, what would you do with two hundred more thousand dollars a year? Would you hire someone? Would you buy a van? Would you buy more tires? So it's it's more that rat race of like constantly staying in their ear and and privately. I had a great day today. I made some good calls, set up some great meetings. Didn't my my son, my seven-year-old, was like, we were we were chatting, and he's always like, he's so smart, which thank God for my wife. He's like, What's a good day like for you at work? And I'm like, God damn, this kid's always asking tough questions. I'm like, well, and immediately I was like, when I sign a contract, when I sign a contract, it's a great day. And then I was like, you know what? And then immediately I was like, maybe not. I was like, a great day is if I talk to five people and I just have great conversations with them. You know, I learn about their business, I learn about them, I learned that they have kids, I tell them about you, and he's like, Oh, that's that's not like a great day. So, you know, that's always the balance of like just constantly having to chase down clients. And then I have another guy that like he said yes six weeks ago and still hasn't signed. And so my email today was gonna be like, hey, dot dot dot, are we signing this or not? And I'm like, don't send it, idiot. Don't send it. Yeah, you should drop drop it in the chat and say, hey, I've asked this guy. I've asked this guy. How do I send this and not be condescending to him? Right. This other guy that needs to schedule his onboarding calling. Another guy needs to schedule his onboarding callings, won't do it. Don't know anybody like that. Don't know anyone like that. Uh how about you guys? How do you deal with how do you deal deal with controversy with clients? With clients? Yeah, I've I've just learned to talk, just talk to people. I I always try to get ahead of things with us. I mean, we haven't had too many situations, thankfully, because of processes and procedures. I mean, the scary thing about what we do is like we work on you know 50, 60, 70 rental cars plus all the residential. And I'm like, guys, listen, we're not NASCAR. Everything has to get put together correctly. Yeah. This car to be safe because it's not just the person driving it, it's everyone else. So I mean, we've had a few minor things to where like we've scratched a rim, and you know, I I mean, we'll but my guys are good to tell me, so I'll get a hold of it and just tell the customer, like, on that, you know, I have a mobile wheel repair guy, he's gonna come fix it, and you won't even know. And certain things, but if the if to your point though, if the worst thing that happened in the day is one of your guys scratched the rim. Did did the garth the garth out of the gart. That's a green, that's a good garth. I I have a bill that was a little over a grand because a brand new guy jacked the truck up incorrectly and it was too close to a brand new, the brand new fender on a brand new Tahoe. Jacked it up and just went so uh but that was that was probably but I mean they're not driving down the freeway and a tire pops off. That's what I'm saying. But no, I mean no, because I reiterate, I stress it so much. Like, guys, listen, but we this can't. This can never happen because it's it's it's sad. But um, I don't know, man. Work is I just I have I talked to my guys like I wanted to be talked to when I was I've had a we've talked about the younger generation. 24 to 21 is my age group of the four guys that work for me. So it's way different though. I came up, I mean, I I grew up slamming phones against the wall, breaking things. Oh yeah. I mean, yelling and cussing. I mean, I I I went a whole month without a day off because I kept getting in trouble at discount hour. No, was it right? Probably not, could HR got involved. Yeah, but they took my day off away, you know, because I wasn't doing the right thing. And I'd come in unshaking. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. They made you come in because you were not doing the right thing. Yeah, I was like, Wait, they took my day off backwards day off. Yeah, there's uh yes. They took my day off. He broke three phones. Well, you're working four more days. What the hell? Yeah, you don't you were taking your day off away. So No kidding. Yeah. There's a lot of things that that yeah, that I wouldn't so when I started this business, there was a lot of conflict with my guys and there's a lot of shouting. And then I just realized like Yeah. And we've we've had some turnover, but usually I I think I'm really good now. I tell everybody, this doesn't have to be your career. I don't if if you want to and you know, thankfully I've been able to usher out people that I'm like, this isn't gonna work for you. I've only really had to fire two people. Hey, you don't work here no more, you're fired. Bye. Any other time I've been able to have good conversation and go, look, I think it'd be beneficial if you pursued something that you really enjoy doing. Provide you the opportunity to go find what you love to do. Yeah, it's working out so far. I'm down about it. Free up your future. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I would say even you guys are B2C, what percentage? I mean, as far as marketing goes, we're very B2B. Consumers are many times whose house we're in. If you had the opportunity to help somebody who's stuck, or you could give them advice who's stuck in a situation where maybe they're unhappy in their in their job, they're working corporate, or maybe they don't have a job. What what types of things would you tell somebody who's in this in a situation that you know maybe maybe maybe they're looking at a pivot in their life and they're afraid to make the step? I mean, and don't just say No, I I think there's a lot of factors that come into play in a situation like that. I mean, obviously you want to make sure that the that the opportunity is not self-inflicted, like that they're not leaving something good because the grass isn't always greener. You know, have they gotten everything that they need to out of where they're at, and vice versa, like what they have to give? You know, what does whatever the pivot is that they want to make, like if it's into entrepreneurship look like, and you know, what is their plan, right? Like what because put pen to paper, break out your spreadsheet, whatever, but like understand that you know you gotta you gotta have a plan. You gotta know, like, hey, I want to get from A to B to C to D, or maybe you just want to get to B. You don't have to want to get to D. But is it uh is it sustainable, is it scalable? So I think I think a lot of thought needs to go into to the idea behind taking the step, whatever that is. You know, if you're if if it's you're like in a situation that's not healthy for you, then maybe there's like an in-between step. You know, hey, this is my goal, this is where I want to get. So maybe there's a maybe there's a smaller step that you're supposed to take before you take that bigger step, right? Like for LJ, it was hey, I'm gonna go do this golf apparel thing, and then I got another gig that was really good for me and my family, and for whatever reason, I don't know that we got into that, but then he's like, Hey, now I'm gonna go do this tire thing. So I think it's something I think it I think it I think it takes a lot of critical thinking. I don't think it's just uh just go for it, my opinion. Is has there been a uh an opportunity in any one of your lives where you had the opportunity to make a pivot or something presented itself that now looking back you didn't take that opportunity because of fear or circumstances or whatever it was that could have changed your life for the better, and now looking back, you're like, had I just would have bought more Bitcoin. Actually, my buddy emailed me. We had a neighborhood group, there was like five of us guys, and we were all drinking. We were all we were all drinking buddies and the wives, we all hung out, and we started a cryptocurrency group, and we had like two meetings. It was we were eating pizza and drinking beer, and then the guy emailed me like three or four days ago and goes, FYI, this is literally seven years ago or whatever it was. He goes, if you had invested five thousand dollars in Bitcoin, you'd have X1. Whatever No So Funny Sort. Bitcoin. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's been plenty of opportunities, I'm sure, that we've all missed. I mean, I'm a tire kicker at heart, you know, to like go to work for Moby Tires. Look at something. I didn't I didn't even plan that. Looking for somebody. I need a sales gun. Just kick tires all day. You love calling people and getting rejected. I need your help. Oh, dude, I can do that all day. If you're not getting rejected, you're not trying. Like I want nos. If I get 20 no's a day, I know I'm doing well. Yeah, I think. I wish I could have that mindset. We're built different. I wish I could have that mindset. Yeah, I think there's plenty of opportunities. I'm drinking after three. Oh, after crying. Crying. Yeah. Yeah. I take a break after 10 and then walk around, cool off. Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of opportunities to people used to say, like, I have no regrets. I'm like, that's bullshit, you know, for a long time. But I think as I've gotten older, you know, you don't really, I don't look at it as regrets, everything's a learning lesson or opportunities. Like I genuinely learn from every little or big mistake I've made. And so I think my mom would say, everything happens for a reason. I don't know if that's always true, but yeah, I think you just learn from missed opportunities, and that I can't think steers you in a different direction or pivots you in a different direction down the road. So I try to have that kind of mindset around it. But yeah, we've I think I would say we probably have all missed the boat in one thing or another. You know, it's interesting, like you hear people say, Oh, I do this except for I love my kids, I don't want anything to happen to my kids, but right? Is it the same with those pivots, right? Okay, everything I've done in my life has led me to where I am today, right? So I don't I don't regret anything, but I do have regrets. I wish I would have played football in college because I think I probably would have been pretty good and I turned that down. I wish I would have, you know, whatever it is. So to your point, I think that there's I mean, there's definitely things we live on with regret, but it is is it the fact that we're like, okay, now we got to step back and go, okay, had I not had these experiences and these tough times to build the character or whatever it is, you know. Yeah. I may I may have talked about it when when you and I did, but I made a colossal mistake. My senior year of high school, I was a basketball player and I got suspended for half my basketball season, and that was what I lived for was basketball and I ruined my senior season. Could I have gone D1, D2, maybe, maybe not, but I definitely ruined my senior season. And that's a fact. Ruined my senior season basketball, but it was the greatest lesson I've ever, you know, learned was I was, you know, I screwed around a lot, I I made a lot of mistakes, I got away with a lot of things, but that one set the tone for I'll never make that kind of mistake again. Because it really could have ruined a lot more, and it did ruin, you know, my basketball career. But I I don't look back on it and go, poor me, or poor basketball, or poor senior season. And I have buddies that will still make fun of me this day that I miss my senior season and and I don't, it doesn't bother me because I learned so much from it that I can still be myself and still be, you know, funny or whatever the case is or the life of the party without doing what I did to make that big mistake, and it just set the tone to be like, you know, I I you know being professional and how you're viewed in the community or small business, and now like everything you do, you know, is part of your character and part of your makeup, and now it's part of our business. I think that that was a huge learning lesson for me, you know, a long time ago. Fortunately, no chickens were damaged in the in the mix of it. But that's good. Yeah. But the chicken coops. But the coops were still being made by LJ. Bob? LJ? Anything to add? No. No. I I mean I was gonna go to college for theater, and then we found out we were pregnant halfway through our senior year, and so I never went back to the 30 different auditions I had to go to pursue that. But I don't ever think anything of it. It's just whatever, that's not what God wanted for me. No, I really don't. I I yeah, nope, this is it. I don't I look but I'm trying to sit here and like think, oh there's nothing. I didn't play sports. I was actually really little in high school, and so that's why I got into theater. Because I I was a little kid, I got laid out. I think I said that too. You could have been a uh action hero. Yeah, but it didn't be like the next Jean-Claude Van Damme. Could have tried it, but yeah. Venom. No. I don't know. I remember I told my wife I was gonna go join the Navy with my buddies. Well, she was my girlfriend, and she goes, Yeah, if you do that, I'm not waiting for you, just so you know. I was like, Well, never mind, I guess I'm not doing that today. I mean, scratch that. No acting, no, no navy, and uh just we just got a job. I mean, bought a house, something I didn't see possible at 19 years old. We moved into a home and started a family and try to learn how to be married, and yeah, so no, it's all good. That's awesome. It's been a long 27 years married somebody, but yeah, we're just we're having that conversation almost almost 30 years together. That's incredible. Make you feel old, Anya. I think I feel old because my daughter's gonna be 28 and I don't feel old. I don't feel old at all. I go to the gym, we work, I get in a van and change tires, and then I'm like, dang, I got a kid that's a couple years away from being 30. Yeah, I feel old. That makes it sense. I said I said that to somebody the other day. I was like, yeah, somebody asked me. I don't remember who it was, but somebody asked me, you know, you have kids? I'm like, oh yeah, they're all in their 20s. And I went, Oh shit, my daughter's 30. Yeah I got a 30-year-old. You know, it's like all of a sudden you're like, oh, you're talking about a seven-year-old. No, my granddaughter's my granddaughter's gonna be two this month. Uh-oh. You know? I was like, wait, how old are you? Well, how old are you? Oh, so let's we'll we'll kind of wrap up, but but I got one more question for all three of you. I as you continue to evolve through life, I was gonna say as a man, but we know you're all men. At least you claim to be. You associate as men. How how do you hope those coming after you view you through the pivots that you had to deal with in life? I mean, I just hope that they I hope that they see it as it was intended. That it was to for their even for themselves, like that it that it was that it was to the benefit of myself and those around me. And that it was for the right reasons. You know, each time I stepped from kind of one pivot to the next pivot was always an effort to improve, you know, our position in life, the time that I had to give, our financial situation, whatever it might be. You know, like the I think I think about the biggest pivot was whenever I, you know, I raised my kids here and I took them, at least three of them, back to Southern California. And I and I, you know, just kind of getting to your regret question, I I I often ask myself, like, it was a great career move, but I don't know that it was the right life move. Yeah. Because it impacted them so greatly. Now, my son has been with his girlfriend since they were in eighth grade. Looks like they may get married, so that never happens if I don't do that. So good for them. And I know that, you know, character was built along the way through those tough times, but I did see that them struggle through that transition. So, you know, maybe they put that in their pocket, but it's a bullet in their belt, and kind of how they want to live their lives. But now they see where I'm at and they see the business and they see that we're helping people and they see the heart of the matter up close and personal, and I think I think they believe in it. To quote Ted's mom, all things happen everything happens for a reason. Yeah. I think for me, I hope I hope when uh the question is like when I'm dead and gone. Is that what they're saying? When people look back on your life, yeah, they look at the pivots, the choices you made. Yeah. What perception? I you I'm really just focused on like what my family will say. I I really could care less, couldn't care less what anyone ever says about me. I hope that when my kids look back, knowing like where I came from and the life that I got to live before I started this family, and then all the career changes dad made, my my h truly my hope is that my kids will see Christ glorified in the way that I I love them, in the way that I pursued Jesus regardless of monetary gain, and that they saw that even though I made a lot of mistakes both in the workplace and in just my family life and the way I raised them, that just the pivots that I've made have brought me closer to Jesus and that they see Christ in me at the end of my life when it's all done. Because he intervened at 26 years old and changed my trajectory, my family's trajectory. And um, I'm a firm believer in generational sin and things that have cursed your family. And uh, I come from a long line of that. So at the end of the day, businesses are cool, whatever dad did was fun. We tr we get to travel a ton because of what I do, because I run up stupid credit cards with this business. We can go to Maui every year for a week if we wanted to and not pay a thing, and they they think it's great. But at the end of the day, man, I just hope my kids look at me and go, Man, dad was such a freaking hot-headed mess sometimes, but he loved Jesus, he loved my our mom, and he took care of us the best he could, even when in their 20s and 30s. Like I still, like I'm still loving on them and trying to speak into their life and and and and my kids are at the age now where they're teaching me things. They're speaking truth to dad. And and I and I appreciate that. So I just love when it's all said and done, they can say, Man, dad was a crazy dude sometimes, but he loved Jesus and loved our mom and loved us well. And he did, he always provided, you know. That's I think I think ultimately, like, when you have when you have the ability to have a family, and I don't take it for granted that my wife and I have been together as long as we have. You know, I remember when I hit year 13, like my parents, I thought, man, that wasn't that long. I got 13 years flew by. Let's do it again. And here we are doubling it up, you know, and I'm I'm just thankful for that. So I didn't mean to get all sappy, but that just that's the emotions that it brings when I think about at the end of it, man, none of this, none of this matters. Yeah, you know, and I I don't I want my kids to know that the relationship that I have with Jesus matters more than any business in my relationship with them. So that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's awesome. Ted, you want to follow that up? I mean, again. But I I think he said something that I was trying to remember while you were still talking, but about the family generational generational sin and all that. It's I think about that a lot because w you know my family generational sin is something you know you try to overcome kind of in a way that you I want to expose my kids to as much as they can be exposed to. And because I think it's important instead of sheltering them. And I think even today's today's world, there's so much poor exposure, and you know nothing on a soapbox, but like devices and internet and texting and all that is is horrible. And I am a huge proponent on responsible technology and and all those things, and and trying to teach them in a way that is different than I was raised, but still some of the core characteristics is tough. I mean, every day I'm like, they do the right thing today for my kids, and I tell my kids I love them a hundred times a day so that way they know it, you know, through and through. And if I get on them and we have a basement and the kids are two of the kids are in the basement, if I get on about something, I wait a little bit, and then I go down, hug them, love them, follow up with them because that didn't happen when I was a kid. And I was always like, you know, I'd go play basketball and be like, I was just left to my own thoughts. I wonder a lot of bad stuff. And I never want my kids to wonder how much I love them and will do anything for them, and and and I think that's just always a tough balance of like teaching and coaching and uh being tough on them and but unequivocal love for them, no matter what they do. And I think that's the most important thing. So if they grow up and say my dad loved me, number one, number two, he taught me great stuff, right? About being a man, being a good character, being, you know, believing in myself. And then three, he was also tough on me because I I still think that's a care a trait that we get away from these days, where you know no judgment on any parenting because everyone can parent how they want, but I think there's still this balance of people have just completely backed away from that, right? What your belief system is, and they've backed away from a lot of things. And it's scary that kids are free to do whatever they want, whether that's internet, whether that's you know, I I have too many examples for my kids, you know, in the school system and what they've seen. And it's just a fine balance. So it's like I I love them unequivocally. I and something that we my wife is number one, and and selfishly, I think you guys is making sure she's at the forefront and telling them it was just Mother's Day and making sure they know she is the most important thing in our life. Her and I come first, right? Which is a tough thing to say, or but she comes first, right? And if and if I show them how to love my wife, then they're more likely to do that in their relationships as they get older. Yeah. And with other people. And so I think whatever I do for work, ethical, whether it's cool, whether it's fun, whether it's hard, whatever it is, they're gonna see how I operate every day and with her, most importantly, and then they're gonna hopefully be good men and live good lives and take care of their women and their lives. Yeah, that's that's all that matters. So I said that was the last question, but one more question came to my mind, and I'll try to wrap on this. But Ted, your kids are obviously a lot younger than our kids, but how how did you guys deal with failure with your kids and letting them know that failure is actually a good thing in some search way situations? Because I I c I can say from my perspective, and and and I I think I'm older than all three of you. Let's find out. Pretty sure. But but I'm just thinking from from my perspective, like nobody was diagnosed with anything when I was a kid, right? I mean, we there was no ADHD and all those things, right? And failure and specifically thinking about education. I was behind everybody in the reading books. I couldn't read like everybody else. I mean, I was always slower, you know. I I could not sit down and do homework for the life of me. I couldn't concentrate long enough to do homework. But nobody ever I mean, I was in sports, and I think sports is what taught me to fail and be able to be gracious about it, right? Still be a sports sportsman about it. Like it taught you so well you like to cold call people and no. Okay, okay, I still do not like the one. I still do not like the one. Teach them how to cold call, but that's fine. But but just kind of thinking about the generation, because you hear that quite a bit, where kids don't know how to fail. They don't know how to deal with disappointment or failure or those types of things. Did you guys do anything to help your kids navigate that? Or Ted, are you doing anything now to help your your kids grow into that and and navigate it? Yeah, we talk about leadership a lot in the in the house, my wife, and my 13-year-old who will be in high school next year. He's all three of mine are different. So it's like I'm having different conversations with all three of them, which always makes it tough. And you want to you want to lead from a similar lens, but then your individual conversations are different because my three kids are different. But my 13-year-old the other day, we were talking about you know, he's gonna do band and all this other stuff. He's going to high school, so it's hey, we want to see him, we want to push him still to be a leader, right? No matter what he's doing. I think leadership or elements of leadership is the most important gift you can give yourself, period. And that shows up differently amongst other kids. And he said something that will stick with me and my wife. He basically was like, I want to just blend in. Because he felt like we were pushing him in a way that was uncomfortable for him. And, you know, he is not a natural born leader, and so it's a tough conversation that we're still gonna have to have. Like going into high school, everyone's different, and everyone's not gonna blend in. And being a leader means pushing yourself and being uncomfortable. So it just I think to answer your question, the conversations are different amongst the three of my kids because my seven-year-old is a natural born leader. He's like telling kids what to do on the soccer field, baseball, and my middle child just he has it in him. He's just a little shy, and my older, they're all different. And so I think it's finding in them what resonates and what what where the heart is, and that's gonna help push them to be great because it's not about them being CEOs or presidents or being entrepreneurs, it's still about being a great person. And my kids never get in trouble, they are great, great kids. They ne I mean they're they're just wonderful, and so I know they have it in them, but it's just steering the conversation depending on on who the kids who which one it is. But his that stuck with me because he's I want to just blend in. Yeah. And I was like, that's cool, you can still blend in, but there's different different ways to do it. So it's just finding at a young age, you know, what where their heart is and what they're passionate about, and you know, leaning into it. Yeah. It's like my wife said, like, don't they don't need to be like me, and they don't. All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. Yeah, it's been a new experience for me trying to navigate a conversation. First time for everything. That's good. We'll have to try different formats of this same type of thing. Yeah, I might have I might have LJ on next time. Get LJ the donut guy on. Anyways, I appreciate you guys coming on. Thanks for having me, dude. Yeah, thank you very much for uh enduring this. It's not a Manacha Twa. Is that a three? Yeah. Twa. I don't know what four, it's in French. Sounds crazy. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it. Thank you, John.