"I Couldn’t Save Daniel" — A Father’s Mission to Prevent the Next Tragedy | Roy Sublasky

Roy Sublasky was on probation until he was 18, dropped out of school, and watched friends die or go to prison. At 21, a woman showed up at his door with a two-year-old son he didn’t know he had — and that knock changed everything. He surrendered his life to Christ, became a pastor, and spent 20 years planting churches and serving communities from Arizona to Cambodia. Then, on October 10, 2025, his 19-year-old son Daniel was murdered at an apartment complex in Chandler.

In this episode, Roy sits down with Jän Simon for one of the most powerful conversations this podcast has ever had. He shares the raw details of that night, the agony of a justice system that let the defendants out on bond before Mother’s Day, and the decision he and his wife Jessica made: get bitter or get better. Roy chose better — and he’s channeling his grief into the SQUASH Initiative, a violence de-escalation and prevention program built to reach young people before one bad moment changes everything.

Topics Covered:

- Growing up in Chandler: ADHD, skateboards, and finding trouble early

- The Lithuanian-Hispanic surname and deep-rooted Chandler family history

- Dropping out of school and getting his GED at 36

- Coming to Christ at 21: the knock on the door that changed everything

- Connection before correction: the key to reaching young people

- Kevin Starr: the alternative school teacher who made a lasting impact

- 20 years of ministry across Arizona, California, South Carolina, Mexico & Cambodia

- Daniel Justice Sublasky: who he was, how he served, and what happened that night

- Navigating the court system and the fight for justice

- The SQUASH Initiative: Slow it down, Question the moment, Understand the stakes, Act with purpose, Seek God, Honor life

- Turning grief into purpose: “I couldn’t save Daniel, but there could be a Daniel that gets saved”

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You might be able to do this thing, this violent thing or this hurtful thing. You might be able to do it. You may have done it. But the reality is, is you gotta live with it. Yeah. You gotta live with it. You're gonna have to deal with it. It's gonna live on in you. And then you have to live with yourself.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Hey there, welcome back to Above and Beyond where Excellence Meets Elevation. I'm your host, Jan Simon. This season we're raising the bar, diving into the passion, purpose, and defining moments of leaders who don't just aim high, they live there. Big ideas, real stories. Let's get into it. Alright, Roy Soblaski is a pastor, community leader, mentor, and advocate for violence prevention based in the East Valley of Arizona. He currently serves as co-pastor of Life Community Church in Gilbert, Arizona, where he is passionate about helping people discover purpose, healing, and hope through faith in Jesus Christ. Roy's journey has been shaped by both hardship and redemption. Growing up in Chandler, Arizona, he experienced many of the challenges that face young people today, including poor choices, destructive influences, and a lack of direction. After surrendering his life to Christ at age 21, his life took a dramatic turn, leading him into ministry, leadership, community outreach, and mentorship. Over the past two decades, Roy has helped plant churches, lead outreach efforts, mentor young people, and serve communities across Arizona, California, South Carolina, Mexico, and Cambodia. In addition to ministry, he serves as Facilities and Transportation Director for Leading Edge Academy charter schools. In October 2025, Roy and his family experienced the devastating loss of their 19-year-old son, Daniel Justice Sableski, who was tragically murdered. Rather than allowing grief to define their future, Roy and his family have chosen to transform pain into purpose through community engagement, mentoring, public speaking, and the development of the Squash Initiative. Slow it down, question the moment, understand the stakes, act with purpose, and seek God. Honor life. Roy works to promote violence, prevention, conflict de-escalation, and hope for young people with families. Roy's message is simple. No matter where you've been, what you've lost, or what challenges you face, God can bring purpose from pain and hope from even the darkest circumstances. Roy and his wife Jessica have dedicated their lives to serving others, strengthening families, and helping communities become safer, healthier, and more connected. Roy, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Thank you, Gun. I appreciate the opportunity to come and talk with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, well, I appreciate you being on, and um, I want to be really intentional with regards to our conversation. I feel like this conversation is very powerful, and it's not just about loss, but how we deal with loss, how we deal with pain, how we reach young people before one bad moment changes everything, and how families and communities can step in and step with purpose. So I appreciate you coming on. If you're okay with that, I am very okay with it. Awesome. We will jump in. So let's let's talk when we go way back. Way, way back. Yeah, growing up in Chandler. What was life like and who was Roy before Faith, before BC before Christ? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

BC. There you go. I'll tell you all about it. So I uh growing up in Chandler, you know, I grew up I'm born in 78. You can do the math there. Yep. And uh so kind of growing up in the perfect 80s, the 80s were the best. 80s kid, skateboards, BMX bikes, the fluorescent colors, yeah, you know, all the crazy clothes that you know we wore, the shoes, you know, we I was into all that stuff. I love to skateboard. Friends of mine, we would go try to find an empty pool and go skate the pool. That you know, it was just a cool thing to do back then. Yeah, but I'll take you a little bit further back than that. So growing up here in Chandler, mom and dad, they uh they worked, both of their families were basically their parents were field workers. Okay, and that's what brought them to Chandler.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

And so somehow, someway, they got established here and just started growing a family here. I would say probably in the 40s.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Can can I ask what your nationality is? Because Soblaski is not I mean, I would think you're not the only one, yeah. I wouldn't have put that there.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

For those of you that are on the podcast and can't see me, I most likely look like a Hispanic. So I yes, I am Hispanic. My father's first language is Spanish. Okay, and he's Roy Granillo Soblaski.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

My mother is Nelda Sanchez, is her maiden name. So she is Yeah. And so um both of their families, they ended up here from Mexico. Okay. Uh I have Soblaskis that live in what is Mexico.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

No kidding.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, uh, a lot of uh Soblaskis in California and Al Panama.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

So do you think that's more of a Spanish thing? Or I you want you want that story?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah, absolutely. So in the ish, what I could track back was there was a few Soblaskies that crossed from Lithuania.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Lived in Philadelphia for a while. It's listed that their mother and father were from Russia.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Now you have the Soblaski S K Y. Some people tell me they think I'm Polish, some people think I'm Russian or whatever, you know. And so it's either Polish or Russian. Lithuania. They came by way of Lithuania. Okay. So ended up in Philadelphia. Then from there, a couple of them moved, started moving west. Okay. And when they started moving west in Texas, that's where you have the mix of the Hispanics. Interesting. And so we've got so just over generations, it's just kind of interesting. So interesting. My my grandfather, his Antonio Gallo Sublaski. Okay. Um, he s mostly spoke Spanish. That was it. Uh interesting. So he would kind of get up, not he he wouldn't get upset, but his mother would get upset with us because you know, we're kids. Yeah, we spoke English. You know, we're 80s kids, we're not speaking Spanish. So that that's my my pop's side of the family, mom's side of the family. Her grandmother is actually uh her name is Amelia Estrella. Okay. Now, Amelia Estrella and her family, they helped pioneer the Estrella Mountains.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

No kidding. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And so those mountains are named after her.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

That is so cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Her family. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How they lost it, I don't know. But that's uh, you know, story for legend, I guess. Yeah, yeah. But um, so they back then Chandler was very tight. Gilbert was probably the same, you know, uh, and uh families they they live together, they you know, birthdays and parties and all that stuff, and so our our families both sides go way back. There's deep-rooted families in Chandler that are just part of that whole scene. So growing up, went to the elementary schools in in uh in Chandler. I didn't know it then. Today I know it now. My regular seat in class was outside of the classroom. I was that because you're a common I wasn't the calmest kid. I you know, I sit here and I talk and I speak real calm and I'm just kind of chill today. But back then, I just don't know what it was. School was just uh it was torture for me. It was like was it like an ADD thing? Yes, okay. A D D, ADHD, however, whatever letters you want to put on it. I could not sit still. You know, I was joking around and just having fun and didn't even know, you know, what was school for. And so you couldn't read the room? No, I could not read the room at all. I learned how to read, but I could not read the room. But my class, my my desk was I mean, year after year, I remember ending up outside. And so just so from there, just kind of being set outside with the other, I guess, I don't know what you want to call them, class clowns. Yeah. That's what I gravitated towards.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

That's crazy. You know, in the second grade, I think it was second grade, had a teacher. I spent more time in the hallway than and then he'd tell us like actually he had a chair in the front of the room. That was the first step. Like, if you were being disruptive, he'd sit you in the chair and he'd say, You're gonna grow roots, sit down. And you'd sit in that front seat, and I'd be you know, doing whatever I was doing, because I wasn't doing anything wrong, but I you know, he thought I was, and then ended up out in the hallway. And then it ended up like, you know, we'd we'd sneak the the little jar of rubber cement oh my goodness, you know, out there, and we'd we'd sit there and put it on our palm of our hand and make ball, make rubber balls out of the rubber cement and stuff. Oh yeah. Flicking them. Oh yeah, it was I was not a good kid. Yeah, not in second grade. No, no, at least according to the teacher. Yeah, so you grew up, had issues kind of sitting, sitting down, sitting still, writing skateboards. Yeah, did you brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, I've got so I've got a blended family. Okay. Blended families. I guess I I'll describe it. So mom and dad, they ended up splitting up. I was about four. Okay. About four years old. Mom and dad split up. Dad begins to establish another family, mom starts to establish another family. Roy goes back and forth, you know, for visits and stuff like that. Um, primarily with my mother.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

When I would get in trouble, which was kind of often, I would go to dad's. And then from dad's, I would I just didn't like it there. There's too many rules. You know, dad was pretty strict. He was uh he he was becoming a pastor at the time and very extreme in a very extreme uh setting of a church, I would say that. And uh and so it was just too much for me, so I would bounce from there. But yeah, I don't know if that answers the question, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Did you have the brothers and sisters? Oh brothers, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yes, yes. So on my mother's side, I do have a sister. Okay. She's in her 30s, and then on my father's side, I do have wow, two stepbrothers that are just trying to kind of give you a picture. Give you a picture there. And so uh the steps they're close in my age. One is a few years older, one's my age, which is 48, and then my my other little brother, he is 39 now, and my younger sister, she's probably 30. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Did you play sports, anything like that? I played like t-ball, a little bit of baseball. I love soccer, but primarily I was just out just playing. Just playing, man. Just playing BMX bikes were the thing back then. Skateboards were the thing for me back then.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I never I was never gonna skateboard. I think I I was just afraid to kill myself on it. But I used to BMX all the time. Used to love, we used to do a little crazy tricks. I mean, before you before it was like jumping 80 feet in the air, it was you could twirl your handlebars or you know, ride on it backwards, those types of things. That was cool. But so what are some of the influences and pressures as you started to grow, as you started to age into we'll say junior high, high school that that really started pushing you because maybe making some decisions that weren't quite right. I mean, do you think it was again that that ADHD type thing that was pushing you, just kind of looking for acceptance?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, I I really was. I was looking for acceptance because I was going like back and forth, moms and pops, and and I love them both dearly. You know, pops has done he's he since has passed, but I don't blame anything on them. They they did their best with what they had, you know, and and I love them dearly. They both taught me great, great lessons in life. But so with me, I don't it it was just I I kind of, you know, mom is at work all the time and she had to do what she had to do. And I just wanted to be out with the friends, and then all of a sudden my friends they start, you know, sneaking into alcohol, and and then another, you know, older friend that was in high school, he's he's got marijuana, and you know, I'm like 12 years old. Oh wow. And and like, hey, let me show you this. And I didn't have any breaks, I guess. I didn't have any, you know, there's certain lines that people draw for themselves. I just didn't I didn't really have those at that time. And so unfortunately, I would cross those, I'd cross those lines. Okay. And a lot of it was acceptance. Yeah, just just want to be around and want to be cool and um just trying to be accepted.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Did you in in in that, I mean, because you said your dad was I'm I'm gonna say strict. I'm putting words in my mouth. He was strict, but but you know, going down the pasture route and some different things like that. I could almost again putting some words into the story here, rebelling against him, but then mom's not around to corral, yeah, right? So you're out being a crazy kid. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

And and I I seem to gravitate gravitate towards other kids that were probably almost they were in the same type of boat, I guess you would say. And so I don't know if it was, you know, anger that was just kind of underneath, and we didn't know how to express, you know, hey, our families are broken up and what do we do about this? We didn't have that type of, I guess, bandwidth to be able to process that. And so we just processed it, let's just go crazy, let's have fun, let's, you know, let's get out there, let's just do whatever we want.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And and, you know, you've got the late 80s. And so you got your late 80s. There's a lot of stuff happening there going into the early 90s. You had the whole the hip-hop, the it seemed like, and uh maybe not compared to today, but it seemed like music ultra, there was like this ultra-violence or this ultra, it didn't even have to be violence, it was just like almost like a a shock factor.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

I think there was definitely a rebellious area. I mean, because you get into Seattle grunge scene, you get into the hip-hop stuff, you know, and and some of the things there, you get the Crips in the Blood kind of become quite pronounced in that in that time frame. Yeah, and and a lot of raves start to pop up different places. I mean, I'm a few years older than you, but it's like that whole that whole time frame was, yeah. I mean, it was it was definitely a a transition, I guess if you will. Yeah. And in running through that. You've served communities and and I will probably mess these up. Arizona, California, South Carolina, Mexico, Cambodia, Cambodia. Yeah. I feel like there's one more. But anyways, what is having the opportunity to be in those areas maybe helped teach you a little bit about your childhood and maybe maybe giving you an in introspective view of some of the things you were dealing with as a child?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. For me as a child, I do I do remember very much battling with insecurity and wanting to be accepted and um kind of just like doing whatever it I could to do that. And then also feeling in school, if you're the kid that's sent outside, uh, you're making a joke, but really you feel like you're a dummy.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

You when you when it's all said and done, you go home, you're like, oh, maybe I am dumb. Maybe you know, and so as far as uh being able to interact with kids, it's for me or or just kids, youth, and I would say even adults, Jan, is it's that um that encouragement factor, that you know, just like validation. Like, yeah, hey, I know things kind of stink for you right now, but you're a good person. You're you know, that things are looking up for you, and just giving that encouragement. And I do remember at times there were people in my life that would stop along and try to talk to me, and uh, but it just seemed like I was just so deep into that insecurity, I wouldn't hear them at that moment.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

You actually just kind of answered my next question, which was gonna be was there anybody along the way that attempted to will say help you, and I don't like using that word, but help you before you really realized you were going down the wrong path.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Besides my parents, of course, you know, yeah, good parent is gonna put up the stop signs for you and try to shake you out of that. And we do what we do best as little rebellious kids is not listen to that.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

My parents have no idea what I'm dealing with. They've not lived what I'm dealing with.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

There so there was a teacher, I was sent to the Chandler had their form of I guess it was an alternative school. Uh it was a junior high school. I wasn't doing good in junior high, and so they said, hey, you need to go to this alternative school. That alternative school was basically a bunch of cut ups in there, you know, just and it was just that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Which it's almost like let's take I worst of the worst, put them all together so that they can feed off each other.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

And that's what it was. I you could have filmed a uh like a a real life show about it, you know, yeah, and it would have been great. It would have been funny, anyways, um and sad at the same time. Like, look at these guys, what's wrong with them? But so there was a teacher in there, and I don't even know if he's still around. I don't know if he's in Arizona or not, but his name was Kevin Starr.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Okay. And Kevin Starr, if you're out there, yeah. Kevin Starr, if you're out there.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Shout out. I know I didn't spend a lot of time at that school, but you did make impact in my life. Because he he he was he was a male, uh, and he he seemed like he was an athletic guy, and he was really into our life. He would ask us about our life. How was our day? You know, how what did you do last night? And then he would relate to us on our level and then break down to us little life lessons that we could that we could gobble up. You know, it wasn't over our heads, it wasn't too much for us. And uh he would just give us these little tidbits here and there. And uh I I look back and I still remember him. I still remember him just looking at me, and there weren't judgmental eyes. Yeah, his his speech towards me wasn't like the rest of not all the adults, but a lot of the adults. Yes, yeah, and so I looked forward to uh seeing him and talking with him. Yeah. He really did make impact. That was in my younger life, you know, yeah, those younger days along the way. I've had many people, many people uh as I began to follow Christ, begin to just kind of lift me up and give me opportunities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

After high school, yeah, what happened to Roy? Did you go to go to college? Did you s drop out and work at Burger King? Not that Burger King's bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

My so my juvenile days, they were uh I was in trouble. I wasn't, you know, in and out of court, uh probation until I was 18. Oh wow. I stopped going to school young, and any young person out there, please do not stop going to school. It it is so school is so accessible now.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

And really almost you just gotta show up.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I mean, I hate to say that. You know, uh and and not just you know, not just your elementary, junior high, and high school, you college, everything do from your bedroom. So I don't know if you want to keep this in here. Yeah, I'll read it. This is something that I I was embarrassed about for years and years, y'all. But I I dropped out, you know. Okay. I dropped out. Part of it was is I I was making money other ways. And probably not good good ways. Yeah, not good ways, and uh and I'm not proud of that at all. And with time, that just slipped through. It just slipped through. And I find myself 21 years old and I'm working, you know. I I transitioned from what I was doing before, now I'm I'm working, I'm trying to be a legal eagle and trying to do something good, and then I find myself getting married, and I worked construction jobs, I you know, supervisor jobs, uh operated equipment and those types of things, and I was just good at that. And so I let my education slip. Slip, slip, slip. I would say until probably about 2005, six. Yeah. No, yeah, 2005, 2006. I got into college. I was doing uh just courses here and there. And then after that, life gave me another kind of a I don't know, tidal wave, and so I put that aside and then uh picked up like seminary, a few years of seminary. Okay, but that's my education. Yeah. But let me tell you that I was doing college and I'm not embarrassed of it today. Somehow I get into college, and I don't I don't know how they let me in. Because I didn't have a diploma. Didn't have a diploma? Did you have a GED? I didn't have a GD.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

No kidding, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah. And um, when I was we were in South Carolina, we were living in South Carolina, I'm 36 years old, and I was like, I need to get my GD. And you know, I I I do the classic, I did like three weeks of classes, ended up getting it and passing it, you know, and it was for me, it was a great feeling because it was something that I just like overlooked, and it was almost like what I was talking about earlier about just kind of clowning around, you know, like eh, you know, I don't need that, like I'm making this much a year, yeah, you know, I'm doing just fine, I'm working a I'm working a good job, that, but down inside it's like, no, but you skip this major thing here, but yeah, yeah. So I yeah, I was super proud of it.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

And uh well, I I think that that is a very powerful and awesome story. Yeah. Because there are so many kids today. And and I think part of the issue is the educational system, which has been so squished down into you have to fit in this box. Now, in Arizona, we've become much more open with regards to schools of choice and different things, but still there's this because the government controls the curriculum, right? That is like you've got to learn this way. We've got to. I I feel like there's a miss in there for kids. Sounds like you might have been a little bit worse than me as far as holding down the chair in the hallway. But kids like us, where it's like it it my attention span at a young age was not long for wear. I mean, I was and I and I wasn't a good reader. I I think to this day, never been diagnosed, but I think I probably had dyslexia on some level, and probably ADHD on some level, never medicated, all those things. You you got to a point, and I it's interesting because I feel like, I mean, I was in sports and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

I went to college out of high school because that's what I thought I was supposed to do. I didn't think there was any other option. It was like, oh, well, I gotta go to college, you know, and whatever. You dropping out, I don't think it's weird because some people would look at that and say, oh, you dropped out, you gave up on on school. Yeah, but you then came back around to it, understanding as you got older, and some might say wiser, that it's like, okay, hey, that's that's something that that's a threshold that needs to be crossed. And you may think, well, I'm making good money today, whatever that looks like, right? I mean, shoot, if and and I've been told that In N Out Burger is very particular on who they hire and how they hire, but I think they're like 1850 an hour. Yeah. I'm like, that's pretty good for a kid that doesn't, I mean, if you don't have any expenses now. Right, right. Right. Now you start getting expenses and things like that, you need to make more money, and pretty soon you're going to cap out on what you can do because unless I mean you could go into construction, you don't necessarily need to be educated, but at some point you do need to, if you want to own your own business, pass the ROC, you know, and get your license and those types of things. So there's stuff, but I think for you to s to I don't want to say to be embarrassed is is is unwarranted because I think that it's very pure.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

But I also feel like from an adolescent perspective, it's naive to be in that situation and think this is doing me no good. Yeah. Right. But it's logical at that time. Yeah. Especially if you have all these other things happening, and it's like, this makes no sense. Why sit here and listen to this person, right? Have to do my homework, whatever it is. So yeah, no, I I I well, I commend you for going back, getting the GED, doing more schooling.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

So that's I mean, I've always been into business, and so little side businesses here and there, just off of whatever trade I was working at the time, I would create that on the side and just do those different trades on the side to keep things going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Well, it's it's incredible where you where you've gotten to. You talk about coming to Christ at 21. At that point in your life, what do you think changed first? Was it the people? Was it the situation, location? You saw a Bible on the desk and you decided I'm gonna read Genesis 1, and all of a sudden you're like, uh let me tell you, Jan.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Let me tell you. So the lifestyle that I was living, it was it was not good. It wasn't good. There was I had lost friends due to drugs, due to decisions that they made, and and violence. And uh either they were dying or they were going to prison. And so I'm 20-ish years old, you know, and trying to figure out what am I gonna do. Like, I I know I'm not made to go to prison. Yeah. Although I have family that generations of family that they're in and out of prison. And um that's a line that they've crossed. And I could say, yeah, I could cross that line too. Yeah. But I just knew deep down that's not for me. That's not for me. Same thing with the addiction with drugs. Lots of family members that it's just, I don't know, I don't know how to say it's in their blood or whatever it is, but it's like they're prone to addiction. And I wanted something different. I didn't want to end up addicted, drugs, or prison, or you know, just wasting my life, but I at the same time I didn't know how to change. And then I get a knock on the door, and uh it's a it's uh a lady that I had relations with, and she has a two-year-old son. And she says, Guess what? This son's yours. And so wow, if you see him today, you'd say, like, yeah, he's yours. And I did that day, I was like, Yeah, okay. And that right then and there was my super duper wake-up call, like just the door wide open wake-up call, like, hey, you need to do something. Yeah, you need to change.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Boy, I'll tell you with Father's Day coming up this weekend. That's one of the things everybody jokes about. You know, how many Father's Day cards do you got to have somebody knock on the door? Hey, guess what? It was almost and there, you know, I'm man.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

So imagine, you know, uh about to be 21. Yeah, and you get this knock on the door, and um I I just okay, you know, what do I do next?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

And so she didn't help, and and and we have a great relationship today, actually, you know. Um, I'm not with her, but uh, we have a great relationship. I have a great relationship with my son, my oldest son. And uh, but I I just began to imagine how is my son gonna see me? Is my son gonna have to visit me in jail?

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Is my son gonna have to visit a grave? Is my son gonna know me as an addict? Yeah, um, and I did not want to be any of those. I wanted to be an upstanding person, I wanted to be a good man, I wanted to be, you know, somebody that's with my son and you know, and be a good father.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

I I didn't know what exactly that looked like, but I knew it wasn't what I was living that at that point. And so from there, um I wanted something different. I wanted something different. My father, he was a he was a pastor, and I had seen his life somewhat. I mean, I I know I was young when he started going to church, but I had seen his friends, I had seen different people that I knew in Chandler and how their lives were changed. And I thought it was just by church. That's I I just didn't know much about Christianity and the Bible or anything like that. But I knew enough to where, like, hey, if a person puts their faith in God and they begin to pursue God, then something about that person changes. There's that high probability that something's gonna change. And so I remember going to my dad, he just so happened to be in town down the street at a church. Usually he was either like um he was he was one of the pastors that had a pretty good gift talent, is if there were churches that were like split up uh or you know, really going through it, they were down on their attendance or whatever, he would go in and he would build that thing back up. Okay, and get it go and get it thriving and then go on to the next one. Gotcha. Uh so he was back and forth from Mexico or Phoenix or Malaysia, like I said earlier, and he just so happened to be in town. I go to where I know he's gonna be, I know he's gonna be at the church house. I go there and I say, Hey, what's going on? He asked me how I'm doing. I just tell him, Hey, I I don't I don't think I'm doing very good. Can you just pray for me? And he's he looks at me and he's like, Well, what do you mean? I said, I don't know, I just don't feel good. I don't feel good about my life. I feel like something's gonna happen to me. Can you pray it away? Because I seen them like pray for people and and stuff like that. So I thought it was just that simple, you know? And he's like, No, I'm not gonna do that. You need to, you really need to follow Jesus. I was like, Follow Jesus? Okay, and he's like, you know what that means. Your your life's gonna change. Like the things that you've been doing, Roy, like, he's gonna cause you to stop. So I was like, Whoa, change, stop. That's exactly what I want.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Now I didn't know what life was supposed to look like though. So by faith, I told him, okay, yeah, let's do this. So he was very surprised. He said, Really? I said, Yeah, let's do this. If you were to ask my family, his brothers and his sisters and grandma and my grandma, and they probably say that I was the least likely to do this. Yeah, yeah, no kidding. My grandmother, I was just there today, actually. She still trips out on me. Really? Yeah, she's still like That's funny. She's like, Are you okay, Mijo? That's awesome. Yeah, and so you know when I say trip out, I mean like she's amazed at what God has done in my life. Yeah, yeah, for sure. She's really amazed at what God has done in my life. And so he takes me into an office, and there's the senior pastor, and the senior pastor knows me too from when I was a child. And he says, Hey, this boy wants to get saved. That's what they call it, getting saved. If you've been around church at all or old school churches, getting saved, you know. And so he looks at me and he's like, What? You want to get saved? I was like, Yeah, no, you want to get you really want to get saved? I say, Yeah, pray for me, you know? For real, you want to get saved? Yes, please pray for me. So I don't know if they're like messing with me or what, or like like trying to test me, but um, so we end up praying. We end up praying, and uh Jan, I might be going too deep on this. No, you're good. This is fascinating. So many people call like a sinner's prayer or whatever. I don't know how to I don't I don't know if you can formulate that that meeting with God, you know. That I don't know if you can really formulate that in words. Powerful, yeah. And then all of a sudden, if I say the right things, then I'm I'm saved, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

I don't I don't know, I don't think it works that way. Yeah. Well I think I think it's something that definitely has to come from your heart. Yeah. And and that's what changes first. Whether it's whether it's, you know, I mean, then people say, Oh, it's your heart, your soul, your spirit, your chakra, whatever. Yeah, right. I believe it's from your heart. Yeah. And and if that changes, it's almost like a warmth that just takes over your whole body. Yeah. Type of thing. Anyway, so I'm throwing out words, but no, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

You're good. So I uh I remember praying, you know, like, you know, Jesus, forgive me, you know, and Jesus, you know, I believe you you died on the cross, and I'm and I believe you rose on the third day. And I don't even think I really believed that he rose on the third day. It just sounded good that he was saying that. Yeah, yeah. He rose on the third day. Today I do. I believe that. And then I remember him telling me, he goes, now I want you to say, I forgive all those who have hurt me. And so I was like, What? I forgive all those that have hurt me? You know, I'm thinking this. I didn't say it.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

And I remember trying to say it and I couldn't say it. I could not say it. Really? And um, he's an old school preacher, so he's like, say it, you know. I was like, uh, okay, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna forgive you. And I like faces were flashing through my mind and uh situations were flashing through my mind. And uh he's like, say it. So finally I I made a conscious decision and I forgave, you know, and that's when I felt what you were talking about. That warmth, that uh I don't know, I I describe it as like as a flood of peace. Yeah. This peace, and and I didn't know what it I didn't know peace like that before, and I didn't know also what joy really felt like. And I really I remember walking away, and there was a park nearby, actually Foley Park in Chandler, and like the birds, I'm looking at the birds in the trees and then I'm hopping into my car, and I remember thinking to myself, wow, the God who created all of this, I'm good with him. And he's good with me. You know what I'm saying? And so then I just I drove off. And I didn't want to go to my dad's church because I was like, God, if you're because I'm a deal maker. I I I I do all kinds of side stuff and business stuff, and you know, I'm I'm into all that besides managing that at leading the edge and besides the pastoral stuff. And so with God, I'm like, okay, God, if you're if you're really real and what you did is really real, and then you're gonna do this outside of my dad's throwing out the tests. Yeah, you're gonna throw out you're gonna throw you're gonna do this outside of what my dad, his, his circle and his his church influence. Yeah. And lo and behold, God does. He He did. And uh, but I I think that's because it's his plan, you know not because I'm making deals, but because it's his plan. So that was the change. From there, yeah, I just I went all in with the church that I was a part of.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

And, you know, a 21-year-old young man, single dad at the time, um, fighting, not fighting, but trying to get my my parenting time established with the courts, you know, all that. Um going through that whole process because I wanted I wanted my son, you know. I not I wanted my parenting time. Yeah. They used to call it visitation. Yep. It's really parenting time, is what it is. Yeah. Or my parenting rights. Uh so I just went all in then. And and anything that I could do at the church or do to help serve um what they had taught me, I did it. Like, no question. It's like, yeah, this of course. Just leaned in. Yeah, leaned in.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

How how does how does your your experiences with what you dealt with BC? BC, yeah. To now, how does that help you relate and deal with the kids that you interact with on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_00 36:19

I think it helps a lot. I think it helps a lot. Uh, like I said before, the whole insecurity factor. The uh I I do come out of a background of experimenting with drugs and that whole lifestyle. And so there's a lot of kids that are either tempted to do that or they're involved in that and they feel like they can't share that with anybody, or they they know it's dangerous, and it is really dangerous now. Yeah, it is so dangerous now.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

I was watching on Discovery Channel, they've got the seased at the border, contraband at the border, or something like that. And they were talking about fentanyl again last night, and it just fascinates me how little of that there's basically two granules of salt can be done. It is super dangerous. Crazy.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Oh, I mean, that's not your dad's pot out there. No.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

No, I you're literally you're gambling. You're gambling with your life. I, as far as relation, I try, and I'm older now, you know, and so yeah, I'm still a dad, and I'm still, you know, but I really do I try to take that Kevin Starr approach. I do. Yeah. I do. Like, okay, what's something that they can understand? What's something that that they can gobble up and and and uh and run with? And I try to make sure that I'm not condescending, you know, I don't have that that judge, you know, that judgment eye.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

And you know, I being a single dad, I'm 21. I probably wasn't I was 21 by age, but in my mind, really, probably 17, 16, you know. Yeah. And so I I've got a relationship with young men right now that are going through custody battles. They're, you know, and they're they're young men going through custody battles, and rather than wrecking and blowing up, no man, you're gonna go to work. You're gonna be a good dad. Yeah, you're gonna cherish your parenting time. It's all gonna be worth it. Yeah. It's all gonna be worth it. You know, uh I there's a young man right now that I'm watching him, he's he's almost gone through the same exact thing as far as with the child, you know, like finding out a child is his at a not from birth, but a couple years later. Wow. And uh I am super proud of this guy. He's he's um he's totally gone forward with he wants to be a good dad. You know, he's searching a career path, and uh what I'm told is he sees how things have played out for for us and for me, and and not with Daniel, but with my oldest son. Because now my oldest son, I help him with his business, he's got a cleaning business, we've got a great relationship. You know, that could have turned sideways due to you know the whole custody thing and all that. And um, and I just keep telling him it's worth it. All your hard work, it's gonna be worth it. It's gonna be worth it. So isn't it crazy?

SPEAKER_02 39:07

And this is a side note, because you just made me think about this 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, how much you think you actually know, and how old you think you are, and you look at people who are in our demographic age-wise, and you think, oh, these guys are so freaking old, you know. And then I look back and I think, I'm not that old, man. Yeah, not that I'm not that old. But obviously, as a young kid, you think you know everything, you think you got it all figured out, you know. It's like, who are you to tell me type of thing? It's just it, I you just made that my mind went straight to there. I'm just thinking, God, I was I remember my ex-wife and I sitting when she was pregnant with my daughter. My daughter just turned 30, so this is quite a while ago. And I have always looked very young to this day when I tell people I have a 30-year-old, they're like, What? You know, we were at dinner at a restaurant, my wife's sitting there, and I can still picture this the flannel shirt she has on, little belly showing. The waitress comes up and she's like, I'm sorry, darling. You know, it's like, what? And we're like in our mid-20s at this point. It's like, wait a second, but we just both looked very young. And but I think about that now, and I think how much we thought we knew. Yeah. And now looking back, it's like we were so young. But anyways, I digress. At what point did ministry I mean, obviously at 21, you kind of went all in, you dove in, right? But at what point did did it did it become more about what you felt you were called to do versus you wanted to be saved?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

It's a good question. It's a good question. Can I backtrack just a little bit? Absolutely. Just to you asked me also about about the connection with the young young people. Yeah. And we'll go right back to something that's key and um it's something that we know. It's obvious. It's it's really is obvious, but I don't know why. For some reason, with with our kids and I'm gonna say with my son, my youngest son, uh, connection before correction. Uh connection before correction. You can't have a you can't have healthy correction without a good solid connection. You know what I'm saying? Um I think that that's that's gonna be key for us older guys and gals. Um, because we do have a lot of expectations or I don't know, what you want to call it, but and we do have a lot of wisdom, experience that we can share, that we can invest, we can pour into these younger people, and um it's just trying to figure out that way to connect with them. That way to con you know, and that's that's the the challenge. If that's the challenge for us, and it is that's a challenge because we we care. I believe that's why you do this podcast. Well, absolutely. You care about the community and you care about different, you know, different people groups, and and so you're this is a way to connect. Yeah. And so I think connection, good connection brings about good correction. With my youngest son, we would just butt heads. I mean, just butt heads. But was it a power struggle, butt heads? It it's the young man that knows everything. It's the young man, the the young man that still wants to run back to being a boy, and the man in me is pushing him towards manhood. Gotcha. Um and in between those spots, I can see where connection was dropped. And then correction comes in, and you're frustrated because it's not make it's not producing what you want it to produce.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Yeah, yeah. Okay, and so it's just frustration on both sides.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yes, yeah, it's a healthy connection, trying to figure that out, wrestling that out rather than going straight to correction and being frustrated because you're not seeing what you want. Yeah. And of course, time, patience, all that. But so your question was about ministry. Yeah. When did it become from being saved to to jumping into like calling? Yeah. I you know, uh for me, it was it was uh I I uh I like to connect with people, I like to of course share the gospel. You know, uh to me, the the gospel of Jesus Christ is hope. Hope, hope, hope. Hope for the hopeless, you know, people that are in despair, all that stuff. They're not even in despair. Yeah, it's it's hope for everyone. So from like I want to say like day one, I'm telling my mom, I'm telling anybody that would listen, I'm trying to bring somebody with me to a function, to church, or to do something, like from day one. And I don't think I've lost that.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

I don't I think from day one it was like this appreciation to serve and to do whatever I can do. Today I happen to be a pastor who preaches and you know, I I help with the the decisions of the church and all that. Um but I don't for me the calling has been I I This is the way I describe it is is a I believe the in the body of Christ. That universal church of Jesus. You know, that that universal church that that is not a man-made denomination. Not a man-made denomination that he's gifted us, he's called us, he we're ambassadors. Yeah. And we're not, you know, we don't hold these titles to just bash over people's heads. It really is to love, lift up, help where we can. And that's been my that's been my calling. That truly has been my calling and on me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Somebody put that pastoral title on me, but I don't know if I'm answering this how you're how you're uh trying to go with this, but I don't I don't think there's I don't think the direction I'm trying to go. It's just interesting because and I I don't mean to cut you off. I think about like what comes to mind is feeling a calling and then fighting against it. And I feel like myself included, for whatever reason, fighting against that calling. So for you to talk about you know, from day one, feeling the passion and and the ultimate pursuit of living in that truth fascinates me. Because because I do feel like I mean we I won't go into my story, I'll end up bawling on the air, but it's one of those things where I feel like you I don't know. There's like this this pushback that I feel is is a real thing, but um I'm not getting that sense from you, and that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

We so we I I I t I tell people this, I really do mean it. I so with me it was like a no-brainer for it was a no-brainer to follow Jesus. I was in trouble. I was a single dad. You need something different. I was a troubled kid. You know, I I you know uh and a lot of it is due to myself, you know, it's due to my own, I was getting myself into these things. Yeah. I, you know, I I take the blame for it. I'm not gonna blame culture and society and you know, the 90s or or drugs or whatever. I made those decisions. Yeah, I was naive and I was young and brain's not fully developed and all that stuff. But I it was like, man, like I said before, man, the God who created everything. I'm good with him. He's good with me. All right, Lord, what do you want me to do? I mean, today I'm putting door stops at the church. You know, I'm fixing a toilet, you know, and and so when I build the body of Christ looks like so different.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

There's so many different ways that you can do that, not just in a church service. Jan, believe it, yeah, what you do, speaking words of encouragement, lifting up other people, you're focused on your who would you say that your target is here?

SPEAKER_02 47:28

You're the community, the Yeah, I mean ultimately I started this because I felt like there's a a misconception or misperception of business owners in and amongst the community that we have it easy. And what I hear is we're all struggling. And I feel it's important that people understand they're not alone in that struggle. Yeah. That everybody's dealing with the same thing, so to speak, or at some point has dealt with what that is.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

See, I see that as a ministry. I do. Thank you. I see that as a calling. I really I I do. I see that as a calling is because not everybody has that. Yeah. Not everybody has that desire, not everybody has the the creativity to figure out, like, okay, that takes passion. That takes that takes something inside that cares about people that are either walking in your shoes or gonna walk in your shoes. And you know, and I know business owners don't have it easy. Yeah. And they've got families they're responsible for, they've got workers, you know, they've got employees that they're responsible for. And those employees, they have precious families, and um business owners aren't just ah, crank out the, you know, let's get the money. It's not what it is. No, no, no. Right. Many business owners, most business owners that I know, their labor is out of just love and they want their communities to be better, they want their families to be better. Of course, they all want to grow, yeah, make some money. Well, of course, right. Makes the world go around.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Um, but I look at that as a ministry. Let's go back to me. Yeah, is I with church, I try not to put keep myself in the church box. Um, but I will do anything. I will do anything when it comes to around the church from building things to going and visiting people and talking with people because I feel like my calling is to build the body of Christ. As far as the transition from saved to calling, it for me, it's just been a natural progression over the years of putting on what fits, putting on what fits me.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

I love to do missionary work. Yeah. That fits me. It doesn't fit other people. It doesn't fit other. I don't even like I I like being at home eating what I make. So imagine me in Cam Cambodia. Yeah, right. Eating what somebody made that might have washed their hands, you know. This looks like monkey brains. Close to it. And it's passion, drive, and calling that does that for me.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

But I probably wouldn't have done that from day one. It's been it's been a progression.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

How how do you how do you minister to somebody that may not necessarily be ready to hear the word of God, but but has been put in front of you probably to minister to?

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Connection? Okay. Going back to the kids. I'm looking for I'm looking for a connection. I'm I really am. Okay, if this really is a God ordained meeting, then I'm looking for that connection point. Um I'm uh I'm trying to find that. I'm prayerfully doing that. You know, of course I'm not bowing my knee and praying right there, but right I'm mindful that hey, God could have this person in front of me for a reason. And so what I do is I I try to look for something to lift them up. I try to look for something to connect. Hey, how are you doing? How you doing today? Well, you know, if you listen to somebody long enough, they'll begin to tell you what's going on in their heart.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

And I think, I think uh trying to find those connection points to people's hearts is a way to minister. Yeah. And if you're looking for it, I think you'll be able to find it. I think you really will. Yeah. It could be sports, it could be yeah, it could be their kid is giving them a hard time. You know, it's like, oh, really? Well, what's she doing? Oh man. And uh, and then there's an open door there. Yeah, you know, and that that's not my aim with everybody. I'm like like right, but I do try to be aware. If if somebody's opening their heart, yeah, be open to it.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Yeah. Let's talk about Daniel.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Tell me, tell me about Daniel and give me the story of Daniel.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Of Daniel? So Daniel at the time of his passing was 19. Daniel, from day one, has just been all-boy, wild, running around, tough. Like his dad. Yeah, just tough guy, you know, tough kid. But he his heart was very tender. Uh, he'd do anything for his friends. He would do anything for us, even if he didn't want to do it. Very, very hard worker as he as he grew up to be a young man, because he was he was with me a lot, you know, and so I'm always doing side jobs or demolition jobs, you know, tearing down walls or building walls or uh doing some work at the church or somebody's house or something, or some type of service project where we're out in the community serving, and uh he's there with me. And so he understood the importance of if you're able-bodied, then you help somebody who help people. He did struggle in school, he'd rather just be having fun somewhere. With him, it was in our household, so it's myself, my wife, Jessica, and uh Abigail, his older sister, and then Daniel, and then my oldest son, the one that I mentioned earlier, he was primarily with his mom's side of the family, you know. Okay, but he he's a he's around a whole lot more. Although he's older, it's he's still around us a whole lot more. So Daniel in our home, he he was just always out with the buddies, skating, one of the, you know, skateboarding, the bikes. Sounds like his dad. Yeah, the bikes, all that. Yeah. School, you know, he's cutting up in school, but it wasn't like it was nowhere near what I was into, young. Okay. Nowhere near what I was into. You know how it is. You always have those parents that did like all the crazy stuff, and then they were like, Yeah, you know, over their kids. I I wasn't over them, but I would try to be aware. Yeah. Gotcha. And I would warn them. He'd be like, hey, I live that life. And of course they don't believe you. Yeah. You know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And then he would hear stories, and you know, and really, yeah. So with Daniel, he loved to fish. His buddies, his actually his friends, they they still come over, they'll spend time with each other, and just kind of we were watching UFC the other night, do anything for his buddies. Yeah. So those were his his bros.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

What what should people know about Daniel?

unknown 54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

I mean, you said he's tenderhearted, tough on the outside, soft and gushy on the inside, do anything for his brothers. Yeah. What else? I mean, is he what what what what really drove him? Was it service? I mean, because he sounds similar to you.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Yeah. I think so. I think service, I think he really would do. If he loves you, he's gonna do anything. And he loved a lot of people. Yeah. And he was very quiet, but his actions spoke for him. Over and over again. I've had people come and tell me, hey, Daniel, you know, he helped, he helped carry this stuff in, or Daniel helped me with this project, helped me with that. The place that he was working at, he he got hired for maintenance, of course. He's good with his hands and fixing stuff, and um Autism Academy here in Gilbert. He had done some projects there for them.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

He floated between uh some of the businesses that the the owner of or the the president of the Autism Academy helps with run, and he would float between all those businesses, and uh the principal pulls me aside and says, I want you to show you this project. He did such a great job, and he was so good to us every time he came in here, and whatever we asked, he would do it with a smile, and he had such a great attitude. Then the owner of the management company she says, I don't want to hire anyone else unless they're like Daniel.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

And so this young man, he made such an impact, and it was it was service, it was respect. That's really cool. Yeah, and so that's what I would want people to know that he was a very loving, respectful guy, and it's unfortunate he's not here to share that today.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Can you share with us the story of what happened?

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Yeah, to our knowledge, uh he so he was living at our house. He had been with his girlfriend, she lives out in East Mesa, and he told her he was gonna go meet up with somebody. So he was gonna go meet at an apartment. He did go meet at an apartment on McQueen and uh Warner, the Elante apartments. I don't know if we could say that, but um he went to go meet, I would say around 9 p.m. ish on a Friday, October 10th, 25. It's rainy. It's actually rained later that night, but I don't think it was raining at that moment. So he goes to meet, and from what I pick up, there was some type of deal that was going to happen. We don't know for sure, all the discoveries haven't come out yet. But the way the news and what's described to me is that he was there to meet to buy some marijuana.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Which is very unfortunate. Marijuana's legal now, of course, not for that age, right? Not for 19. So he goes, he gets a text. There's two vehicles that are there that are part of this deal. He pulls up in his vehicle, one of the vehicles off to the side where he cannot see. He gets a text, hey, hop in my car. So he hops into the car of the one of the defendants. He hops in. The police think that uh that's where an altercation took place. Now they don't know if it was a robbery attempt, if it was uh words, some something happened to where now the other guy that was in the other vehicle comes out from the side. So my son's in the passenger seat, the driver's in the in the driver's seat, and there's a guy coming from another vehicle, exiting his vehicle and coming on the side to the passenger side. He comes out with uh AR-style, AR style pistol, whatever that means. Okay. Daniel and the driver are struggling in the car. Guy comes the other guy comes from the side, Daniel gets out of the vehicle. When he gets out of the vehicle, then he's struck several times. Not with bullets, but with but hit. But with yeah, the gun.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

Yeah. Oh, so like butt butted.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yeah, buttted pop out. The other guy comes, has him in a puts him in a uh rear, what is it called, rear naked chokehold.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

Head okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

Yeah, while the other guy's proceeding to hit him. Hit him and pistol whip. Yeah. They end up on the ground, and then from there, there's still a struggle going on. He gets away, and as he's getting away to the other side of the vehicle over the hood, one of the defendants reaches over the hood. The the car or the hood, I'm not sure. I just barely got the report, and it's hard for me to r read all the way through. Yeah, I'm sure. But from what I read, it's from across the car, he's on the other side of the car, and um three shots go off. And so one shot hits him in the right hand, he's he's got his hands up. So hands up, right hand, and then another shot hits him below the right, I guess you would say, just his chest, lower chest, and then another shot hits him in the arm that hit the artery that's right here. And the chest messed him up too, of course. Yeah. He still conscious, there's three, there's a few people that saw all of this that lived at those apartments. It's a very high-populated place, it's actually right next to Mesquite High School. Yeah, yeah. Like right next to Mesquite High School. And I think it was on a football night. Oh, wow. I don't know if the game was still going on that late, but imagine what else could have happened. Yeah, you know, or if somebody's kid was outside, of course, not at nine. Yeah. You don't want, you know, little kids, but so because of that altercation, and right before the shooting, one of the witnesses called 911 because they saw what was going on. They saw the choking and the hitting and the all that. So cops were already on the way. They get on the scene, the two guy, the two defendants hop in their separate vehicles, they drive around the complex. Cops are everywhere by this time, they cannot leave the complex. They park their vehicles, they run up to the apartment, and then come to the cops somehow find out which apartment that they went to. They ask them to come out. Of course, they uh they don't have any statements. We want a lawyer. Still haven't heard from them since. Pled not guilty right away. Yeah. I think they're pleading self-defense. Daniel is still alive, he's still there. Uh they're working on him, getting him ready to get into the ambulance. I thank God for thank God he wasn't by himself.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

You know, people trying to tend to him. Yeah. It's actually some people that we know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Oh wow. That we've served in the community. Um, and the officers asking him, who shot you? Who shot you? He says, Just save my life, I'll tell you. Just save my life, I'll tell you. In the ambulance, take him. Me and my wife, we're asleep. We don't know this is happening. We don't know this is going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

We get a knock on the door around 2 a.m. two thirty. Uh by then it's just storm and rain. It's it's the the worst, you know, it's like hearing the worst story. You know, like a parent's worst nightmare. Yeah, yeah. We get a knock on the door, and it's Mesa Police Department. Mesa Police Department says, hey, there's been an incident in Chandler. You need to get down to Chandler Regional right away. This is concerning your son Daniel. And here's a number to the Chandler police officer that you need to talk to. Can you tell me anything else? No, we can't tell you anything else. You gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

So we're just there's been, and I thought I heard accident. Maybe he said incident, but I thought I heard accident. So I'm like, okay, it's an accident, okay? So I'm prepping for that. We're racing around trying to get out the door. We zoom to Chandler down the uh, and then uh we get there, go straight to the ER, police officer's there meeting us, and he says, Hey, we gotta take you to uh ICU. So we go up to ICU and uh see what's going on. And I mean, it's Daniel and doesn't look like our Daniel.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

His face is swollen and broken up, and we didn't see the because he had him covered, we so we couldn't see the gunshot wounds. Doctor pulls us, pulls us in and says, hey, pulls us into a side, you know, council room, I guess you would call it, and says, hey, Daniel's been shot, and uh we've given him, we've emptied our blood at the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

We've emptied our blood trying to trying to keep him, keep the blood flowing in him. His body's not taking. We're gonna do one last measure. Uh, they were gonna give him some type of coagulant to see if and and they had like these, like, it was like a warming bubble. That's all I can explain it as like huge warming to try to keep his body warm and so that the blood would start to take. And it just didn't. And so at five, uh, he was pronounced dead, and that was October 11th, and uh just a nightmare of a night. Just uh and it rained for days, Yan. It would just seem like gloom. Yeah. It's the worst, worst thing that I've ever been through. Uh we've ever been through as a family. The defendants, like I said, they were taken in right away, and jury picked up their case. Second degree murder with like an ag assault and a kidnap because they held them and um tampering with and destroying evidence.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

So that's been nine months?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

About, yeah. Where are we now? Several court dates in. Court has been just very, very, very difficult. Very difficult. We we go to court, there's different motions that happen. Their bond was lowered from a million to half a million, and that half a million, what the what you could do is, you know, gather 50 grand and then have a bondsman secure the rest. So that's what happened. So first the shooter, one of the shooters, bonded out uh a few couple months before Mother's Day. And then the second one bonded out the day before Mother's Day. Uh yeah, because that motion went through to drop it. Now the judge hasn't given an excuse. He doesn't have to give an excuse, doesn't have to give a reason. He did say that he's taking age into consideration. And, you know, the court with the court systems, you're innocent till proven guilty, that whole deal. So we that was one of the court dates. Uh this last court date, we were supposed to have traded discoveries and get ready to go to trial. And um one of the lawyers, conveniently after both of them are now out on bond, is uh gonna be on vacation for a month. And so they get so that that means that our court dates get pushed out. They were scheduled for certain days, certain times, but they all get pushed out. And uh the latest, the latest, I guess, update is uh another motion just got denied. So there was a motion for one of the defendants to go, he wanted to go on a family annual vacation trip to California. And um I got a call from the prosecutor and the assistant or our victim's advocate, excuse me, asking how we felt about it. Of course, no, we're opposed to it. So we wrote in our emails, we wrote our letters, you know, and made our statements. Please, no, no, no, don't do this. I really thought that the judge might let him go on vacation. And so I was very upset. Of course, we were all upset. It just every time, Jan, it's it's a stirring up. Yeah, for sure. Just when things settle down, it's like, oh, we have to go to court again. So we uh we're getting ready for the w not the worst, but more bad news. And um so I am asking questions now. I'm asking, like, well, okay, if he goes on vacation, what does that mean? Are you still going to track him? It's called pretrial services. They're kind of like a probation officer for for someone that's out on bond.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Those are the people that are tracking these people that are out on bond right now. They haven't been proven guilty or innocent. They're just in limbo. What I was told was that this defendant, if they were granted this motion to go on vacation, then their GPS monitor, the ankle bracelet monitor that monitors them to make sure that they're not around my workplace, they're not around my house, they're not around anywhere that they don't need to be besides sticking to their conditions, yeah. Would be removed before they left Maricopa County, and he could go on vacation. And if he does okay, then when he gets back, he might have to put the GPS bracelet back on before the next court date. Might. Might. My goodness. How did you not blow up? I uh I was blowing up. I was blowing up. And uh so with that, it was denied, and I was just as I is there, you know, I I'm asking, is there any I'm asking a victim's advocate, I'm asking our prosecutor, is there anything here that I don't know about why this is happening? Like what is going on? And so they reassured me, they're like, well, no, Mr. Soblaski, we've told you what's happening, we told you what's going on with the case, the story is the story, and grand jury wouldn't have picked it up unless there was grounds to pick up this case.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

And so I was like, I don't know what else to do with you all. You know, I I appreciate their help thus far. Right, right. But this is getting real like we're in limbo, we're just tossed back and forth, and I felt like their rights were more than our rights. Yeah. And I know the whole innocent until proven guilty deal, everybody's got the rights, just doesn't feel good.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

Yeah. It feels horrible. To interject, I feel like and I'm I'm a a firm believer in the fact that we need to be innocent and proven until proven guilty. Yes, me too. And for lack of a better phrase and putting it this way, but when you're caught with the smoking gun in your hand to belabor that point, I just I feel like there's a point at which the judicial system is very flawed, probably on both sides, right? With regards to if you are innocent and it can be tweaked around and messed up in your favor. But also, as we were discussing earlier, where you before we came on, where it's like you have a situation where there is no doubt that who did something did something, and we're still having conversations of, well, the alleged perpetrator or those it's like, wait a second. It's it's I I for for being able to sit here and talk about it, I I commend you for for having to deal with it. I just I can't imagine the the amount of pain, amount of frustration that that you must go through on a on a very regular basis. With regards to the family, how has this impacted the family and and and relationships within your your circle?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

In in my circle, we we really have drawn closer. Of course, uh at first it was just out of just shock and grief and and uh even fear. Part of this, part of what makes this whole situation, I don't know what to call it, just like an extra layer to this is that we know these kids. They're not kids, they're they're young men, young adults, yeah. Um we know their families. Wow. They went to school with each other. Uh I helped counsel one of the fathers. Yeah. And so we've drawn closer as a family, and we even my family members that and friends that kind of uh I want to say lost touch, but we were just not as close. I've seen them really rally around and be present and not because they feel sorry or bad for us, because I think they're getting we're all getting the point, uh not the point, but we're it's like, hey, life is short. We really need to be present with each other and try to spend quality time with each other and let's let's figure out different ways how to help each other. And so that's what I've been seeing from friends, from family, from his friends. His friends have been coming over and reaching out, and they want to do something positive, you know. At first, of course they're angry, they're angry young men, and they think that violence might be an option. It's like, no, guys, please, no, we're gonna honor Daniel's life, we're gonna do something good with this. We're not gonna we're not gonna be like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:27

Uh and just how how has how has this impacted your relationship with God?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

My relationship with God, I think it's caused me to draw closer to him. I've never been upset with him about this. You know, I've I've had f people that I've talked to, like, I don't know how you do this. Like, I I would be so mad. I'd be so and I'm angry. Uh we talked about it earlier. As fathers, it is so hard to hold yourself down from because we're Mr. Fixits. We we want to do something about this. Yeah. And I can't, I can't say, God, do something about this, you know, you better do something, you know, or or else it's because he didn't do it. Yeah. And so these guys did that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

And my relationship with God, I can either get bitter or we're gonna get better. I'm choosing to get better. And how I know how to get better is I draw closer to him, but I also draw closer to other people. I'm not gonna let it divide me from serving from that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

Yeah. How how do you respond? And and I think this is a question I hear quite frequently in these situations, where, but how do you respond to people that might say, you know, well, if God is a loving God, why did he allow this to happen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:51

I I have I actually been asked that, and I've I've addressed it, and the way I see it is God is a loving God, and he did give his son, and his son took on the the weight and the sin of all humanity, and it's an option whether or not we want to keep living and hurting each other. And I think that God hates sin, and this is why he hates sin. Because he sees what we have to go through when people hurt each other. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Um and so, you know, you got your Ten Commandments, you got all, you know, all that and most of them, most of the commands are what we do to each other. Yeah. Besides, you know, worship the Lord your God, you know. And I think he wants us to worship him, not because he needs the worship, yeah. It's because we need to worship something good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we need to bow down to something greater than us, which is good, rather than bowing down to things that are lower, yeah. And giving into the lower nature and bowing down to that. But I think that God hates sin and he hates seeing what we are going through. You have hurts, I'm sure like things somebody has done something wrong to you that it's wrong, it's wrong, you know, and it's it's hurt you deeply. So God sees that and he hates the way that it affects you. You know, and I think that God looks at our situation and he's like, I hate that this happened to you. Yeah. I hate that this happened to you, that you're feeling this way, that you're experiencing this. And so that's I mean, that's the way that I see it. Is that answered?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

I think so. Yeah. Do you do you feel like I mean you you have had some unique experiences in your life that is a have allowed you to, I will say, minister to people that some people wouldn't be able to relate to or or connect with. Do you feel in any way that some some people say God God knows what is gonna happen before we're even born? Right? He's got a plan. And Daniel may have been put in a in a in a in a position to say, you know, here's what you're gonna live and the experience that you're gonna have, but it's gonna help Roy with something bigger. Yeah. I mean, does that ever enter into the picture with your thought with regards to preparing you for something that you may need to be ready for?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:24

Yeah, I I I see it already. I see it in I I had said earlier, like his friends and different people, not even his friends, there's there's people from his age group and a little bit older that some of them know him, some of them don't even know him, and they're reaching out. And they they hear his story, they hear our story, and they're like, hey, we were involved in stuff like this, and we don't want to be involved in this anymore. Yeah. How can we change? How can we stop? So there's those doors that are opening, right? And then just I see how see how God has the ability to use this as something that can be good for someone else. Of course it hurts for us, and and I hate it that it happens. I hate it that it happened. Yeah. Or when I see the news and I see another another young man or anyone, right? Anyone struck down in violence. Um like I said earlier, either I'm gonna let it get a get us bitter, or we're gonna give it to God and say, okay, God, we're still gonna serve, we're still gonna do something good, and as long as we're still doing that, then we know that you're able to use this and use our experiences to help bless somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:46

Yeah. I uh that is well, thank you. Because I I just thank you for being open to sharing number one, because I I again, for what it's worth, can't imagine having to walk through that path. You're welcome. Um, but to continue to serve and continue to what I want to say is kneel at the cross.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:07

Yeah. And and still say, God, you know, I'm here. Yeah. That's that's just powerful. Excuse me. Well, I'm getting emotional here. Can I share something real quick? Yeah, please. Let me collect myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

I I told you earlier or I I spoke earlier about that connection with Daniel and and correction and that whole, you know, what we were talking about. And I want to say about a good month before this all happened with Daniel. Uh, he came to me and it's in the middle of church. You know, I'm not preaching that day, so I'm running around doing all kinds of other stuff. And it wasn't like him to just come and grab me and say, Hey, dad, I need to talk to you. Not for it's it hasn't been like that. It wasn't like that for at least a few years. Oh, wow. Yeah. We talked, but it wasn't, hey dad, I need to talk to you about something. Yeah, and so I was like, Yeah, come on, let's go talk. So we go into my office and we're talking, and he just starts pouring out his heart to me. Starts pouring out how he feels and how he he wants to change, and he he just he doesn't know how, and he thinks that he needs to follow God, but he doesn't know how to follow God, and he can't follow God like I follow God. And I was like, So I stopped him and I'm like, Daniel, I don't expect you to follow God like me. He doesn't expect you to follow God like me. Yeah, he sees us right now, he sees your heart right now. Just follow him. Yeah, he loves you, I love you. Is there anything you need? Get off your chest. And so he just starts pouring out his heart to me and starts telling me this and that and things that he's that he was ashamed about.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

And I was told, son, I I love you. I don't care about any of that stuff. Gave him a hug, prayed for him. Yeah, and a month later, he's he's gone. He's gone. Yeah, and so I can see how the hand of God was prepping us, prepping all of us.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:01

Yeah, yeah. Was there a point after his passing where Jessica's your wife, right? Yeah. Okay. Were you and Jessica were able to sit down, whether collectively or individually, and then coming back together to have an understanding that you needed to do something more with Daniel's life at this point. Now he's he's passed, he's gone. But to be able to honor his legacy and his memory, was there a point at which you and Jessica kind of came together and were like, we're gonna do this?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

Yeah, yeah. Initially, we I I I do remember this specifically being surrounded by a few family members that and we're fam- you know, you can have family and you're not close. Yeah. But these family members were very close with us and Daniel and his upbringing, his raising. And they were like, we need to do something about this, we need to do something. I was like, Well, we can't get, we can't let this destroy us. We can't just sit here in anger. What can we do? So somebody threw out an idea, let's do a fishing tournament, because he loved to fish. And I'm like, okay, we can do that. And we haven't done it, but it's something on the horizon that we'll be putting together.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:16

I feel like you're still going through a lot at this point. Yeah, it's still a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:20

It's still fresh. But we all every year we would go to Mexico and serve. And actually, for the last three years, Daniel would go with us and he would serve. And last summer, or that last summer before he died, he spent the summer there serving in Rocky Point. There's a ministry there called Ocean View Ministries. Okay. They make hot dogs, they feed the feed the the hungry people, and they do work and they build little houses and help build churches and stuff. So he stayed there for the summer. Uh so November rolls around, and that's when we usually go. And November 27th is his birthday.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:02

And so the director there, which he was he's very close with Daniel. His name is Conrad. And uh he's like, We're gonna throw a party for him every year. We're throwing a birthday party, and we're throwing a memorial for him every year. So immediately, so October this happened, right? He passed. November, we're there with all kinds of donations.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:26

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:27

Doing, you know, a mass outreach for the kids. And um, we've got, you know, a giant photo of Daniel, and it was emotionally overwhelming. Yeah, but at the same time, it was just so good to be able to look at the kids and them having fun. And and I told Daniel's story to all the kids and the parents that were there, and and I told the kids, hey kids, your parents love you, they want to look over you, listen to them, parents connect with your kids, let's protect this community, let's protect our kids. And uh so that happened immediately then. And since then, of course, we are waiting for court and all that stuff, but we do have things that you're working on. We're working on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:13

How I mean, obviously, people rallied around you, and and I would say this is still a very fresh thing because you're still working your way through the firsts. Yeah. Right. And and when there's loss, all of those firsts are just that much more pronounced. But how how have you been able to turn your grief or your and Jessica's grief into purpose?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:37

And what does that look like? Right now, what I can do is besides besides the people that come into contact with me and my family, encouraging them or giving them helpful words, serving different types of outreaches, community outreaches. What I what I'm aiming to do and what we're putting together right now, we call it it's squash. So what that is, it's a de-escalation, it's a violence de-escalation, I want to say prevention type of program. Okay. But not only prevention, it would be also for when things do happen. Uh, to have people that are ready to step into a situation if allowed, whether it be uh on behalf of the police, on behalf of hospital or different organizations, uh let's say a family like mine. I'm in the hospital, my son has just passed, and it was due to violence. Now what? And depending on what type of attitude I have, or what can happen is I can let it get me bitter or family members bitter or friends bitter, and they go out and actually want to do something about it, not legal, you know, or not healthy, whether it be self-destruction or go out and hurt the other people that did this or somebody related to them. We would want to be able to put ourselves in that place to be able to talk them, talk to them and help de-escalate and talk some sense into them if they're able to calm down, calm down, yeah. Uh to follow up with them on a weekly basis or so. But we're calling it squash, and so we're getting ready to roll that out. I'm getting ready to get trying to get the 501c3 all together and uh try to roll that out and see if we can implement that in a community somewhere, uh, whether it be being invited to schools or just different community events and connecting with different organizations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:43

How how do you how do you process the grief without acting as though it's not there?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

How do I process it? Initially, when I wake up in the morning, I could just take you through the day. Yeah. Yeah. I that's all I I take through my day. I wake up in the morning, I have a little, there's like a there's a table, it's got all Daniel's pictures, his ashes are there, little fun things that we've collected throughout the years with him. And uh so I get up in the morning, gonna get my oatmeal ready, and uh say, son, I miss you. I know you're I know you're doing good. I know you're watching over us, but I really miss you. Sometimes there's waves of sadness, sometimes there's waves of, you know, just remembering funny little things about him, uh anger. And so for about a good two hours, Jan, I'll I'll sit. Of course, you know, I I I pray for the family, I pray for myself, God help me to have a healthy outlook today, God help me not to uh let this eat me up. Um Is there any anyone I can reach out to today? Is there anyone I can help out today? I for me, if I can get outside of my head and outside of myself, it's healthy for me. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. And so I'll do that for about two hours. You know, I'll I'll read a little scripture or I'll I'll be right, you know, I I like to I just have different thoughts and I'll get them down in my pad and and uh build on those different ideas. I'll build on those. So that's that's what I do in the morning. I hit the gym, and in the gym, honestly, I'm taking out frustration. I don't know if it's just a guy thing. It might it's probably not just a guy thing, it's it's just a a release. Yeah, it's a release. And so from there then I just handle my business about the day. I am you described it as acting like it's not there. I don't think I'm very good at that. I mean I think everybody sees it, you know. Yeah, yeah. Uh sometimes the the pressure starts rising, and you know, and I'll get short with people and and I'll realize it later and apologize. Hey, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. I that's how I'm dealing with it thus far. I do go to counseling.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:40

Me and my wife, we we talk about it. I've got friends that I can vent to and they vent to me. And can you believe, can you believe they're requesting a vacation? Right. These they say not so Christian words, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:55

I would be right along there with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:56

These blank, these blink, blank, blank, you know, and then uh I'm like well, thank you for saying all the things that I want to say. Yeah, right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:07

Yeah. Um how how do you feel? How does it make you feel if if I say God can bring purpose from pain? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:18

For me, it's hope. It's hope that what happened to my son that night, that his who he is, his heart, his the goodness, the the life that I guess I dream, you know, not dream, but want it for him. It doesn't all die there. Yeah. It doesn't all die there. That the purpose of that someone else can be. Touched by this story, by our story. Yeah. By what happened, what has happening and what's what has happened, right? That if if a conversation about this can help steer somebody the right way, if uh someone that wants to do something about all this stuff that you see on the news, and like and you're just either angry about it or frustrated about it, like, hey, we're gonna go do this, we're gonna go help this community, we're gonna go and have a de-escalation program, or we're gonna serve, or you know, um that's a part of also releasing that pain and turning it into purpose for us, for me, for me, uh, knowing that his death doesn't have to be in vain. It hurts, yeah, it sucks, it's the most worst thing that I've ever been through. It's something that I don't ever want anyone that I know can can do anything about to go through. Yeah. Um so for us it's it's uh it's the possibility, it's the hope of reaching that next young person. And and I say young person, but really it's it's anyone young. Anybody, yeah. Anybody. It really is, it's anybody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:55

As as you're going through all this, I can't I can't help but wonder how what you do, your your job, yeah, right, it doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:08

You're going to uh as as a leader in the church, as a leader in the community, you're gonna have people that come to you with their problems and their issues and their situations. How how can how do you put yours, your pain aside to deal with them? And if somebody's sitting in that moment right now, what's what is your advice to help them get through it?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:35

How do I so how do I put my I don't think I put my grief aside. I think what has happened with me and what's happening with us as a family is our empathy and our hearts are being stretched and growing even more open.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:54

Do you think it's helping you heal by helping others?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:59

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:00

Yeah, I think so. That and and I do have good boundaries. You know, I I think I do anyways. I think I have good boundaries. If if somebody's coming with like some nonsense, it's like, come on, yeah, stop this, you know. But I I really do see God stretching my hearts and my heart in areas that maybe in times past I was really shut off or not even aware of. And now I see things differently when somebody comes. Doing what I've done, I saw I've I've been a pastor for you been ministering for since 2003-ish. Okay. Um 20-some odd years. Twenty-some odd years. And anything you do for that amount of time, you you've heard it, you've seen it, you've been through it, and I feel like I was going through that type of attitude. This for me was just a heartbreaking moment where my heart is just like broken open. Yeah. And I'm just like, okay, God, I feel for, I feel for, yeah, these people feel for me, but man, I feel for this person. You know, I feel there's a guy that I'm talking with now, and he's on the streets and he's trying to get free from drugs. And you know, and I've dealt with that so many times. And and well, just go get a job and go do this, go do that. Just change your mind. I'm not babying him. Right, right. I'm not babying him, but there's a a a certain, there's a deeper level of care that I have for others.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:34

For sure. We had a question that popped into my head and it just totally left. But how do you let let's kind of rewind or or or maybe fast forward however you want to look at that? Let's talk about squash for a minute. Yeah. One of the one of the aspects of squash is slowdown. Talk to talk to me about how that can help in situations and and what is it that you see with squash? Because I think that the acronym i i is very relevant. Yeah. But what walked you into that thought and and starting with the slow down?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:10

With the slowdown, it's just trying to interrupt violence before it turns into a tragedy. Like just slow down. Slow down, take a breath, count, how whatever you slow it down. Is there any way that you can avoid what's about to happen? Have you thought about your next step? People are so quick to just they have a very, very short fuse. So that's the the the prayer in this is like, how do we s get that fuse snuffed out? How do we douse that, you know, put some water on that fuse and try to before it pops before it blows.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:51

With regards to let me, I'm gonna I'm gonna read these these questions because I've they've just got it's like this. But when when young people are angry, when they're embarrassed, when they're threatened, trying to prove themselves, what do they need to understand about the stakes of one decision?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:10

The stakes of one decision, it could it could be detrimental to their way of life, to their you could ruin they could ruin their life, they could ruin the next life, their families are gonna feel this, their community's gonna feel this. I mean, I've got people I said it before, we know we know the defendants. I've got former teachers and coaches that know all of these kids and they're reaching out, and they're they are just how did it how did this happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:46

How did we you know I mean like how does this even happen in our community?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:50

And they're just they're broken.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:52

Do you do you think there's a a lack of I don't know if it's a human element, a responsibility element, or what it is, but with regards to where we are today from a societal perspective, and looking at this from a very large, very high level, and not that we can fix in essence any of the problems, or maybe we can, I don't know. But do you do you think that there is an issue because when you've got community coming together and saying, How did this happen? We've how how did we get to this point? How how how did we get to this point? Right? I mean, because it's it it it feels to me like, and I I think back, and and this is probably a very poor analogy in this situation, but I think back to when I was in high school and I drove a I think it was a 72 Ford pickup, had a gun rack in the back, and during hunting season the 30 out six was back there. Never in my wildest thoughts ever would I have thought about pointing that at somebody and taking somebody's life. And and not to say that there weren't people back then that did, yeah, but I kind of feel like we've we've we've gone through this weird change where the lack of common respect for human life has been lost.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:15

How how do you think we got to this point?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:17

Well, that's I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll talk about this specific situation and then we'll go broader if that's okay. Yeah. So with this specific situation, teachers, different community people that have been involved with these, just say these three young men, um, they had picked up behaviors that were not these authority figures, I would say, had picked up along the way signals from these at this time kids that were not healthy. You had they were not willing to take correction. Arrogance, it was a a word that several of them used whenever they were called out on their actions. I think it's entitlement. There was an entitlement. There was a uh if they were called out on their behavior, I remember someone telling me if we had called them out on their behavior, then they were gonna try to make us pay for it. And then the people that were raising them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:18

Now, now so and I'm not trying to Well, and and I think and I think we have to make sure that we take some of that with a grain of salt. Yes, with a grain of salt. And and a perception, right? So understand when we do talk about some of this stuff, it is very much in generalities and a hearsay perspective. Yeah, hearsay. So that being understood, I it doesn't excuse the fact that that probably was going on. I mean, my I think of stories my dad, my dad was a teacher for 45 years and stuff he dealt with where he's had to write apology letters to parents who threatened to sue the school because he singled out their child by sending them into the hallway or different things. You know, it's like and and I think about those things where it's like, and before we before we started the the podcast tonight, we were talking about some of the situations we're dealing with here locally with with some of the e-bikes and things like that, and where you see on social media people saying, Well, don't the authority figures have something better to deal with than these kids on their e-bikes? Well, yeah, they do, but unfortunately nobody's dealing with them. So now we've got to go to this next level, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:33

The the people that are closest to these, I guess, offenders, I guess you would say, or you know, I want to say offenders, but the people that are maybe causing a problem. Yeah, right. The people that are closest to them can make the most impact in their life, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. And if not, then somebody else has to deal with it. Right. With it's the Gilbert PD or it's the authorities that have to deal with it today. Right. So on the broader spectrum, I would say that I mean, you've got that going on, you've got the not much connection, not much correction, and then you've got, of course, the influence of whatever it is out there. I mean, back in our day we had whatever type of media was going on back then or what was being pushed, what agenda was being pushed. I don't even know the stats right now, Jan. It would be interesting I should have them on gun violence just this year. Yeah. And how many of them are underage to be carrying a pistol? And how do they get access to it? How do they get access to it and and that whole business? And you know, I I'm not against gun rights or anything like that, you know. Not against any of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:47

Well, it's an and it's unfortunate, I think, that that we have to caveat statements with things like that. Yeah. Because I'm with you. Yeah. Own a gun gun, be responsible with it. Yes. Do we need to make sure that people who own guns are mentally okay? Absolutely. Not a bad idea. Right? I mean, so but that being said, it's it's kind of sad when we when we say, you know, when when you when you want to make a point and then you have to say By the way, yeah. Yeah, but I support the Second Amendment. You know, it's like, okay, yeah, we we all we all should. Yeah. There's a reason for it there, and and and a very good reason for it there. Yeah, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:29

And and the so uh the let's go back to squash real quick. Yeah. So slow it down. That's the S. Mm-hmm. Question the moment. Okay. Think about this.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:41

What's going on? How important is this situation? Let's think about this. Yeah. Let's let's pause. Let's think about this. In in in today's society, how much time do our young people and even us pause and think about it? Yeah. Wait, let me let me think this out. Let me process this. Slow down. Wait a minute. No, I can just chat, or I can look this up on this, or I can look this up on that. Well, no, no, no, no, wait a minute. Let's slow down and think about what really could happen here.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:11

Right? And then you have understand the stakes. We've kind of been talking about what's at stake here. Yeah. If I do this, what could possibly happen? How much time do you do for something like this? Yeah. These kids, these young men, they're claiming self-defense in this whole Daniel case. But then they destroyed the evidence.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:33

I give me going down this road. I just feel like, oh man. I and and at what point does self-defense turn into an attack? Yes. Right? Self-defense being, I mean, at some point, I'm sorry, and and we I don't want to go into I don't want to go into the case on this, but yeah, at some point, Daniel would have to be the aggressor for a self-defense situation or argument to stand up. What you've told me doesn't sound to me like Daniel was an aggressor at the point at which things happened. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:15

So two defendants had guns, one victim did not. Right. So the whole squash. Yeah. The S is slow it down. The Q is question the moment. Yep. The U is understand the stakes of what's at stake here. A act with purpose. Okay. Okay. So that means we take responsibility for what we do. Yeah. Whether whatever your purpose is, whether your purpose is for good or not good.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:44

Yeah. Which we to to to to stop you there and to be very political in this situation, I think we need to have more equal responsibility across the board with action.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:55

You can't say, well, it's okay on this side because there was this belief, and it's not okay on that side because I mean it has to be equal across the board. So, anyways, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:08

I just felt like doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:11

Well, we're gonna hold you accountable for I think I think of a and and I'm gonna go to rioting, you know, or protesting. It's like there's protesting and then there's destroying property that somebody else owns that may or may not even be involved in whatever it is you're doing, and that whole mob mentality of that sort of thing. Yep. So account a not accountability. What did you say A stood for? Act with purpose. Act with purpose. Or accountability. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:44

And then uh you have seek God. Okay. Yep. Seek God. Whatever, whatever that is, seek your higher power.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:50

What would Jesus do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:52

Seek seek something that is higher than your plane of thought and existence.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:58

Um and then honor life. And that's what I was getting down to is you asked, How did we get here?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:05

How did we get here? How did it how how are we watching every night? Was it three? At least three?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:12

At least three shootings in Phoenix in our area. Yeah. A night.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:17

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:18

Yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:19

It's it's insane. You know, it's not just shootings, it's stabbings or choking, or you know, or it's stuff that you don't even hear about. Right. You know, that doesn't make the news because it's not as sensational as a shooting or whatever it is, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:32

And so honored life, and I think that that's where I think that that's where the huge disconnect is, is like, Young, not only do I respect you, I honor you. I I really care about you, your well-being. Yeah. If something's off with Yan today, I'm not trying to get all in your business, but no man, I I care about you. You're gonna be alright? Yeah. You alright? And that just it's that quick, you know. Well, who cares? I got something to do. Yeah. But you can see how people can just throw away someone's life if they don't honor.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:08

Well, and and I think society today has everything so polarized, yeah, that if you and I don't agree about one little thing, I have to hate you.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:20

And I think that that is the most absurd thing in the world. But to that, you know, honor it. It's like we can agree to disagree on things, right? Or we can agree on things, or we can I may see things differently. And I say quite frequently to people, it's like, look, I grew up where I grew up and had the experiences I did, which turned created who I am today and my my belief system and everything else. Yeah. But I need to honor somebody who may have come from a different situation, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:51

Doesn't mean my situation's better or worse, doesn't mean I'm smarter or dumber. It means that we had two completely different experiences that have formulated our thought process. And I need to be open and willing to at least listen to the direction you're coming from, right? So I I think that that's that's incredible. I love the squash acronym. I think that that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:15

But I think you asked earlier about how do you minister to someone that's not necessarily ready. And I said connection. Yeah. And so me, I'm not it seems like it's the thing to do to be looking for all the points that we don't connect. Right. And and then we think that that's something to stand on and we're gonna get somewhere with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:40

Well, and and making the first impression, deciding whether I like this person or not before I even know them based on the visual or whatever. And then and then from there looking for things that are wrong with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:56

Yep. And you can see how someone can just disregard life. Or you know, ah, who cares? Yep. I I would not be able to be where I'm at today. I would not be able to have the loving community that I have and the great just besides all this stuff that happened with Daniel, I'm surrounded by people that I love, people that love me, and and I joke around like with some folks, I'm like, hey, I got friends everywhere. Like I made a friend today, you know, and it's because I'm not I'm not out looking for where I don't connect. Yeah. It's an easy one. I mean, it I could find thousands of them every day. What I'm looking for is where do I connect? Yeah. Where do I connect? Where where do we connect? Oh, oh, you you know, you like that color, I like this color.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:37

You know, you like this team. I love this team. I love I love that because I think that that is it recently. I've realized when people ask me how I'm doing, I say, I'm really good, but I'm busy. And I make I feel like that sounds really bad, but I feel like what you're saying, same thing, right? Yeah. If I if I stop and say, okay, I'm gonna look for the good in everything and everybody out there. Now try, right? Right, at least try. I mean, well, and and even you know, you think about okay, the last time you know you got yelled at b by somebody or you know, somebody flipped you the bird in the in the in driving down the street or whatever. It's like we don't know what their circumstances are that have brought them to the point of they felt like they needed to be that way to you, you know, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:27

So they could have just lost their son. Right. And they're on the way somewhere. Right, exactly. Could have been me.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:35

I mean, no, but seriously, I mean, I think about the number of times I'm going down the road, uh it's supposed to be 45, and I'm behind two people that are going 37, and I'm like, okay, one of you's really stupid, and one's not paying attention, just get out of my way, you know? You sound like my kind of driver. Like, I'm always in a rush, right? But that's the thing, it's like we just don't know what those people are dealing with in that moment of time. With regards to young people carrying a lot of anger and and really emotions that they probably don't know how to deal with, because I don't think we do a good enough job from a societal perspective of helping kids recognize and deal with emotion. And and I and I think we we especially in in in young boys, men these days, I think there's a there's a confusion in society of what it means to be a man, what it means to be that sort of thing, and I don't want to get down a weird road. But w what would you say to we'll say a a young person who is struggling and dealing with heavy emotions, anger, frustration, you know, maybe thinking that they are the almighty knowing everything because they're too smart for anybody. How how do you how do you confront that? How would you deal with with somebody in that situation? What type of advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:00

Being able to sit with them, I would I would try my best, and I said it again, I'll say it again, is to find that connection point. And what I mean by that is if you're uh if you're picking up anger off of somebody, if you're picking up they they've got you know some hostility and they've got address that. Address that you I don't know if you notice this, but the way that you come across is like you're mad. Are you are you mad about something? Not mad at me. I love you, man. I you know, I care about you. Whatever you go are you mad about something? Is everything okay? Are you can I help you with anything? Uh let me tell you about a time where I was struggling with this. Or I was that's because if I just come and say, hey, you look like a real piss. Off.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:43

What's the matter? What's the matter with you? Get that face off of you. You know, wipe that.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:47

Of course you're gonna get right. You know, you're gonna get even more of it if the wall goes on. But I'll take you back to Kevin Starr, man. Kevin Starr was dealing with some knuckleheads. They brought them all into one spot. I mean knuckleheads. I believe there was well, there was five of us in there that had all had the same probation officer. No kidding. Yeah. Oh my. He knew our probation officer.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:09

No kidding. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:11

And if if anyone was gonna be st just statistics, it was us. Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And some of them unfortunately were. Yeah. You know, man, it's hitting me now. Yeah. Yeah. There's two of them that shortly after they didn't, they're not living. Wow. But um, he would come to us with empathy, he would come to us with and just try to connect with us. And you know, Kevin Starr right now, he probably doesn't even know the impact that he's made on me. And so that's I don't think I can stop somebody from being angry.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:46

But I can try to help them notice that, hey, you're angry. Do you want to continue to live this way? Do you like waking up like this and going to bed like this? Do you like the way that it eats you up? Because there's a different way. Yeah. There's a different way for you. So that's that's I mean, I'm sure it would take a whole lot more than that, but Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:10

Start. Yeah. Start. What do you hope with Daniel's legacy? When I say that, what does that mean to you? And what do you hope that his legacy can bring forward?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:22

I am hoping, I am praying, that um so what happened there that night was totally senseless. We knew all of the parties involved, and if money was the issue, come on, Yan. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. If money was the issue, I would have thrown money at them. Yeah. If pride, ego was the issue, then let's figure out how to handle this without killing each other. And so the legacy is trying to crack that nut, trying to, trying to figure out how to redirect that into a healthy way. It's but it's only it I can't do it on a mass scale. It's it's for me, it's gonna be one person at a time. Yeah. And Daniel, I'm gonna honor your life, and I'm gonna honor the way you lived, I'm gonna honor the way that you died, by showing compassion, by still continuing to serve, and by trying to make a difference. That's trying to make a difference for the for the good, for the better. Um as far as on a I would love to see locally, at least locally, the squash initiative rolled out, being able to partner with different agencies, be able to partner with different government, you know, government entities or or schools, and uh just try to get this education out to as many that we can. Old, young, at least try to help out with the whole emotional intelligence. We were kind of talking about that earlier. Letting young men know like there's more emotions that are going on in you. Everything is not just anger or you're hungry or you're happy. Yeah, you're gonna have to learn about yourself and whether you're depressed and how how you do how do you process that? And so that legacy that you're talking about is just trying to help out with these types of issues. And if it's one person at a time, for me, it's worth it. Yeah. If it's, you know, helping out one family at a time for me, it's worth it. It'll keep me busy to the day I see Daniel again.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:33

Yeah, yeah. From here, what is what is healing look like for you and the family?

SPEAKER_00 1:55:37

I don't know at this point. I don't know. I could say, you know, hey, we go to court and we see a guilty verdict and these guys are locked up, but what's that gonna do? It's not gonna bring Daniel back. And if these guys don't have a heart change themselves, then they're gonna get harder. Yeah. And then their families are gonna suffer too. They're already suffering. Um, but healing for me, and I'll take it back, is I think it's gonna be us not getting bitter, getting better, we're gonna have our days, but trying to live out that legacy of compassion and service. That's that's that's what I'm hanging on to. Yeah. That's what I'm hanging on to is that is um, yeah, just trying to step forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:26

If this reaches one young person out there right now that might be dealing with something, what is what is it that you hope that they take away from this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 1:56:36

Whether they've suffered a loss or maybe they think that violence is an option, I want them to consider the their value and how important they are, and how important they are to their loved ones. And so that means how they carry themselves, how they interact with people. The world doesn't stop with them. And their world can be so good, their world can be so much more, but you gotta give it some time, and you gotta be looking for those good things. You gotta be looking, like I said earlier, those good connections. Don't beat yourself up. I think people beat either each other up, but I think they beat themselves up before they beat each other up.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:20

I I I would agree a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:24

The old cliche, hurt people, hurt people. You know, that's yeah. But I think that if I can make a safer you, then it's a safer me. And so I would ask them to try to see beyond just whatever has got them stirred up, whatever's got them, whether it be angry or wanting to hurt themselves or hurt other people, look beyond that. Look beyond that, look, take into consideration. You know what I'm saying? Take into consideration. You weren't made to be heartless. You might be able to do this thing, you might be able to do this thing, this violent thing or this hurtful thing. You might be able to do it. You may have done it, but the reality is, is you gotta live with it. Yeah, you gotta live with it. You're gonna have to deal with it. It's gonna live on in you, and then you have to live with yourself. And so, unless you find healing, unless you find a better way, I what I have seen is it doesn't take you anywhere. It always leads to worse, it always leads to empty. You know what I'm saying? And so I would just plead with them. I would plead with them, choose life. Yeah, choose life, choose the good things, honor yourself, honor other people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:42

How do people support you and Jessica, the family, the mission of squash?

SPEAKER_00 1:58:47

They can pray. I if you know they can if they have my connections, they can call me. We will be rolling out a curriculum, we will be rolling out uh certifications for anybody that wants to be involved and be able to take this and go into different neighborhoods or go into different places and be a partner in de-escalation. If anybody wants to pitch in, chip in. I don't know if I can Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:14

Yeah, absolutely. They can and and what we'll what we'll do, what I'll do is I'll obviously keep in touch with you, but as you roll it out and you get things set up and the 501c3 is in place and all of that, we will make sure that we continuously update our information on the website so that it's connects back to you and people can find it through the website. So and you're at Life Community Church here in Gilbert, yeah, and I would assume they can find you there if needed. We talk we talked about a lot of stuff, and and there's a lot more we could probably talk through. If if there was one thing that you hoped to get across in this conversation that I haven't covered or that we did cover, but you'd just like to reiterate it, what what would you say that is?

SPEAKER_00 2:00:01

I battle I I I struggle with this thought that I'm about to give you. Um and you you'll resonate because you're you're a loving father. For dad, I couldn't save Daniel. I couldn't save Daniel. I couldn't got dreams of, you know, like I wish I was there that night.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:19

Or wish I would have just like took his keys and flattened his tires and he couldn't go anywhere, you know. And I couldn't save Daniel. But I pray through this story, through us sharing and being open, being vulnerable, that there could be a Daniel that gets saved.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:40

You know what I'm saying? That gets steered in the right direction, that gets uh steered away from danger, whether it be victim or the the defendants or perpetrators, that I believe those people's kind of those hearts can change too. And they don't have to go that route. Yeah. They can be stopped before this happens. Yeah. You know, they can be life givers instead of life takers. And so that's us talking about this publicly, and and it's the prayer is is like, hey, man, it stinks. We couldn't, he's gone. We couldn't stop it from happening. But we pray that this would be conversation for somebody. Yeah. Hey, I heard I heard this story about this Soblaski kid, and his dad's a pastor, or you know, they're a good family. They, you know, they tried to do their best in the community, and look, their son still got killed.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:34

And they're still out there trying to do something. Yeah. Man. You know, and and talk about they can talk about violence at the table. What not? We watch it all the time. Yeah. Like, hey, the realities of it. Yeah. That there would be discussions and hopefully steering away.

unknown 2:01:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:54

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:56

Thank you. I appreciate it. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:58

I uh I really appreciate the conversation. I appreciate your strength, your leadership, father to father. My heart goes out to you. And uh I I pray for your peace. And uh whatever I can do to help, I'm here for it. But I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:19

You're welcome, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:21

It's been a totally different kind of conversation for us, but I've thoroughly, if I can say enjoyed it, I've enjoyed it. I know that that sounds weird probably, but but uh I'll receive that. I respect you so much for what you have been through and how you have continued to keep your faith at the forefront and allow that leadership to continue to sneak forward. So appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. I I do have a gift for you. And I I give everybody one of these, whether whether they uh open it now? Yeah, go for it. It really is just kind of a token of my appreciation. Okay, cool. Um for coming on the program. I have a a friend Rox Roxy who owns Roxy Calligraphy, who does the uh engraving on the back of that, but uh it says I went above and beyond, which which I will tell you, Roy, if anybody who's been on this show has gone above and beyond, uh my hat is off to you because I don't think that I could do what you have done. And I just man, kudos.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:30

Thank you, Jan. Yeah, this is awesome. So this is cool. All right, I appreciate it. Yeah, and I love above and beyond. Well, thank you. I mean that's thank you. That's what we all need to be striving for. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, in everything that we do. So thank you very much. Welcome. This is Roy Soblasky, and I went above and beyond. Thank you, Jan.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:04

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