Why Sleep Isn’t a Technique — It’s a Rhythm

🎙️ Show Notes

Keywords

sleep, nervous system regulation, parenting, attachment, co-regulation, Ayurveda, rhythm, emotional regulation, intergenerational patterns

Summary

Sleep isn’t something we fix at night — it’s something that emerges when the nervous system feels safe.

In this episode of Rooted in the Seasons, Katja is joined by Miss Meg, founder of Infinite Connection Academy and creator of the Whole Family Regulation method. Together, they explore sleep as a felt experience of safety, the role of rhythm during the day, and how patterns around rest form — and can soften — across all ages.

Rather than focusing on bedtime techniques, this conversation looks at regulation, predictability, and connection as the foundations for rest — from babies and children to adults who feel wired or unable to switch off.

Find out more about Meg’s work:
🌿 https://www.infiniteconnection.co/

📱 https://themissmegapp.com/

Takeaways

• Sleep is a felt experience of safety, not a behaviour to control.
• Regulation during the day shapes rest at night.
• Responding builds trust more effectively than rescuing.
• Co-regulation supports long-term emotional resilience.
• Feeding, digestion, and sleep rhythms are interconnected.
• Small moments of connection support long-term security.
• Family dynamics influence intergenerational patterns.

Titles

Why Sleep Isn’t a Technique — It’s a Rhythm
 Sleep, Safety, and the Nervous System: A Whole-Family Approach

Sound Bites

“Sleep is a felt experience of safety.”
 “Regulation leads — rhythm follows.”
 “We can change these dynamics.”
 “Set everyone up for success.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction: Sleep, Rhythm, and Regulation
 03:22 Parental Leadership and Nervous System Safety
 05:47 Preparing Parents Before Birth
 08:51 Self-Soothing vs. Crying It Out
 12:07 Creating Safety at Bedtime
 14:56 Daytime Rhythm and Nighttime Sleep
 17:44 Ayurveda and the Three Pillars of Health
 21:03 Feeding, Digestion, and Sleep
 24:03 Supporting Independence Through Co-Regulation
 26:49 Healing Intergenerational Patterns
 29:52 Why This Work Applies at Every Age
 33:26 Reconnecting with Nature and Regulation
 36:34 Communication, Boundaries, and Emotional Safety
 39:32 Choices, Consequences, and Learning
 43:06 Gentle Takeaways for Parents and Caregivers
 45:57 Responding vs. Rescuing
 51:32 Creating Meaningful Connection in Small Moments
 56:52 Navigating Travel, Time Zones, and Rhythm
 01:04:11 Bridging Generational Gaps with Compassion

Explore Further

Want to explore sleep from an Ayurvedic perspective?
→ How to Get a Good Night’s Sleep with Ayurveda

 For support building a morning and evening rhythm that works for your nervous system, we go deeper inside  Stress Less, Live More.

🎁 Get my free guide: My 5 Quick Ayurvedic Fixes from Scattered to Steady
 

Practical tips to feel calmer, clearer, and more like yourself — without overhauling your life.
 👉 GET THE FREE GUIDE HERE

🎙️ Rooted in the Seasons is created by Katja Patel at Zest for Yoga & Ayurveda.
 Explore more episodes at zestforyoga.com/podcast

Transcript

Katja Patel (00:00)
Hello and welcome back to Rooted in the Seasons where ancient wisdom meets modern life with a strong cup of tea practical tools for real busy women. Katja Patel Ayurvedic, diet and lifestyle educator, yoga teacher,

and teacher-mentor. I help women find calm and clarity through small daily rituals, seasonal rhythm and timeless wisdom that actually fits into real life.

In today's episode I am joined by Miss Mac also lovingly called your modern day Mary Poppins.

Ms. Meg is founder of Infinite Connections Academy and the Ms. Meg app and the creator of the Whole Family Regulation method that transforms sleep by tending to the entire nervous system not just what happens at bedtime.

Over the last 25 years, Meg has worked with over 8,500 families across more than 20 countries, guiding babies, children and the adults who shepherd them towards steadier rhythms, deeper rest and more ease at home. Meg is known for an approach

that's secure attachment based and doesn't involve any cried out tactics. Instead of treating sleep like a behaviour to fix, she teaches something more human. Sleep as a felt experience

of safety. It's what the body naturally does when the day has been balanced, the environment is predictable and the connection is steady.

What also makes her work unique is that it's never only about sleep. It's about whole family regulation, aligning daytime and nighttime, building smooth transitions and setting everyone up for success

through realistic routines that match real nervous systems. A core part of her method includes sensory diets, the right blend of movement,

outdoor time, nourishment and calming cues

So children aren't asked to settle a body that's been underfed and overstimulated all day. If you've ever wondered why bedtime can feel like the hardest hour in the house, MEG brings a clear reframe and practical tools that help rest become available again for the whole family.

Here's one quote that sums up her work. Remember.

When regulation leads, the rhythm follows. Rest always becomes available.

So this episode is slightly different because we have recorded it being together in the same room. So you will now listen to the recording.

Katja Patel (04:23)
to today's podcast episode where I have totally new set up. We are live in one room, Ms. Meg and me. Welcome to today's podcast episode. And I'm really excited about this because what we are talking about is how sleep

or how to, in a very simplified way, how to get babies to sleep with ease. And then on the side, maybe also the adults have some benefits as well from that. And babies and children. And babies and children, that's right. You also work with children, I think, beyond five? Yes, birth to 12 years old. Birth to 12, wow.

That's already a good range. 12 years old, are not adults just yet, but they are more closer to that adult life than to the baby life. Yes. And I do work with parents as well. Very important. In terms of their sleep. Yes. Absolutely. Because they are related. Yes. Literally related. Mainly by the inner child.

That brings us to the first question that I wanted to ask. So when you work with babies, ⁓ the adults around you, you work with at the same time. Can you just tell us a little bit about how that works? Yes. So in relation to sleep, because it's the most vulnerable time for a child. Yes.

It's important to create an environment where the parents are able to stand in their leadership and guide the child confidently. that is one of the biggest dynamics is when the child has to control the parent as an illusion of safety. oftentimes the parent lets the child control because they're such a sweet.

little baby and they're learning to find their autonomy and have a voice and make a decision and you know it starts so innocently with you're at the playground or the park and the baby's ⁓ let's go this way or let's go that way and then the parents are so excited for that and they have they grow a little older and they have opinions around food and they have ideas that they want to explore and before you know it the parent looks back

and realizes that they've given all the control to the child and they haven't, you know, they've unintentionally struggled to set boundaries or to, you know, give the child the scaffolding where they can trust the parents' leadership. And especially in relation to sleep, because that's vulnerable, then the child, you know, thinks, I just want one more cuddle or one more this or one more that, and it creates a curtain call dynamic.

And so a lot of it is familiar with that. Yeah. we're giving the parents their intuition back. We're giving them their sense of confidence, how to be loving and respectful while also being clear on expectations and being the guardrails for the child in that vulnerable time and teaching them to have leadership in the daytime and have trust in the nighttime. Okay. I think this.

probably is something that is quite difficult because I'm just speaking for myself and I know lots of others explain that as well. We haven't learned that. Yeah. Right. So, and...

What I feel and know is that adults also project lots of their insecurities and fears and stress onto the babies and then they think, ⁓ that's what they think. Yes. need this and that. That's where a lot of nightmares actually come for children. Wow. And that's also, ⁓ my goodness, that's also where like separation anxiety comes from.

And you know, so because sleep is the most vulnerable time and I'll keep coming back to that point, when a child cries for the parent, the parent naturally wants to, you know, console the child and unintentionally rescue the child, right? You pick them up out of the bed, don't worry, mommy's here, you're safe in my arms. But guess what message it sends to the child? Well.

They are not safe otherwise. They're not safe in their bed. Exactly. you know, when and then when the parent is playing peekaboo with the child and the child gets startled or they get surprised and the parent unintentionally says, did I scare you? Did I frighten you? And they, know, the child's mind is like this filing cabinet and every file is a concept that we're imprinting on them. And so if you say scared and you have

talk about fears and you unintentionally project those dynamics on the child. It might seem harmless now, but once they become two, three, four years old, five years old, and they learn about it in preschool and nursery and storybooks and TV shows and society, then all of a sudden they're flooded with what fear really means, what scary things really are. And now they have to rewire or reprogram all of that.

So I teach parents how do you respond 100 % of the time without getting trapped in the room? How do you respond in a way that doesn't inadvertently reinforce the escalation both as an effective form of communication, but also the anxiety underpinning the escalation? And how do you respond, not react to the dynamics that turn into fears and insecurities so that we're not projecting those dynamics on the child?

and repeating intergenerational traumas essentially. Absolutely. So this will then ⁓ have the language very strongly in that as well. Yes. And this is just a side question that spontaneously comes. Wouldn't it be better to train the parents first as they are pregnant rather than when it's already there and done?

Yes, I mean, I would love to have this methodology that I, you know, I call Meg's method. It's kind of like a Montessori 2.0. A lot of people call me the real life Mary Poppins. And it's funny because I've, you know, flown here to London the other day and happened to bring all the ring with me, which I...

Supposed, classic. But in Hawaii, I show up on my sparkly motorcycle. So it's like a little twist on the Berry Poppins, not an umbrella, but I have a Harley. ⁓ But yes, that's the goal is to get these life skills in the hands of the parents while they're pregnant so that they, you know, it's all about the energy that you're feeding the pregnancy. And I'm sure this is a lot about what you teach because that energy sends the message.

is this child coming into a safe or dangerous world? And then once they're in the parents arms, now we have the self care, the confidence, the tribe, the community that the parent either knows how to access or doesn't. And I feel there's a lot of resonance in what you do around there as well because that's exactly what I also teach and support parents in creating. And then yes.

how do you lay the foundation that doesn't need to be rebuilt by giving the skills for co-regulation, which is what leads to self-regulation and self-regulation is what leads to self-soothing. So many parents or ⁓ caretakers say, put them in the crib and let them self-soothe, but it's really cried out and the child is screaming bloody murder and pardon me, they're just struggling so much and having a hard time and you know that.

is scary for the child, that's overwhelming for them. so I just, yeah, go ahead. There are two things that came up. So first of all, what you said, you know, the all starts in Ayurveda, this concept is very similar because the preparation starts already before conception, there with sort of

deep cleanses ⁓ and they in Ayurveda, they are not just on the body side, but they are also on the mental side, on the emotional side. And then eating ⁓ the supportive food as well to that. And then after that, ⁓

it is all about the conception because then lots is already instilled in that not yet even formed ⁓ baby and the time of pregnancy is really important so that the pregnant ⁓ woman is supported ⁓ not to argue, not to upset too much because at all impacts the baby.

So this concept of really laying the foundations is very similar there and not just looking at, wow, now I have this bundle, what I do with it, but really thinking ahead when you think of wanting children. But the other thing what came up was when you were saying the babies start crying. So when you say self-soothing, ⁓

and letting them cry is something completely different. Yes. Can I clarify? Absolutely. Because self-soothing is sounds. The humming, when babies are nursing, they're often hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm,

So anytime the child is crying, now I also teach families to navigate all the cry levels. And I've developed a system where there's five cry levels. But then there's you know, whinging, fussing, complaining, protesting, you know, and then the level one through four cries, and then there's trauma cries. you know, so there's this whole range. And the way that you interact with that communication.

is going to either support the child in building coping skills and learning how to regulate their emotions, or it's going to traumatize them. And they're going to shut down, give up, have this learned helplessness. With my methodology around sleep, the child never cries themselves to sleep. They never shut down or give up. There's no...

trauma that we're inflicting. We are honoring the child's communication and teaching them to self-regulate through co-regulation. And that pathway will lead to them learning to self-soothe because we are transmuting all of those alarm bells that say, rescue me, pick me up. I don't think I'm safe down here. I'm only safe in your arms because of that dynamic that had been inadvertently taught to them.

And so the way that I guide families to soothe, you know, I've developed a soothing ladder and as the child escalates, you give them more emotional support. And as they're calming down and deescalating, then you kind of take those, you that you transition from different soothing techniques that are heavier soothing to lighter soothing, but they all connect in the child's experience, heart to toe with a little pause in between. And you get to a place where

You move from needing any physical soothing to only responding with mantras with your voice. And once you can respond with your voice and that is equally as comforting as if they were nursed, then you know you have now this way to transition out of the room while still being 100 % responsive over the monitor, but giving them all of the little touch points that they need. And I'm talking, you respond with only two seconds of escalation.

If they only make a sound for one second and they quiet, you don't need to respond to that naturally. But a two second escalation, they already get a response. And if they're escalating for like 10, 15 seconds and they haven't calmed with the verbal soothing, then they already need you back in the room with them. So it's not a fervor. It's not a cry it out. We're not leaving them longer and longer. We're actually giving them the predictability and the consistency that creates that internal sense of security.

and giving them all the touch points so that they trust you will always come back and so that they see that you can move away from them and come back to them. And it's like processing that energy and that vulnerability. And little by little, you create that spaciousness to where, you know, the first night, first two nights, you might be like completely hands on soothing them that you're like sweaty at the end of it. Of course, also just a little stressed, right? But they're calm and they're asleep.

from a calm place with this heavy co-regulation by the second, third, fourth night, they just lay down and choose to go to sleep. It's not, they didn't fall asleep. They weren't put to sleep. They choose it. And that's such a powerful concept that most people aren't aware of. Most people aren't. So true. This should be really foundational what to teach. Yes. The women, but also

actually so much filters into school life. Yeah, I think secondary school definitely should have a little bit, at least not any mythology, but ⁓ the knowledge or the information that actually this is out there and that's something that is really helpful. Yes, and this is exactly where I'm going because aside from all of the sleep and regulations.

I, so my partner and I have five children ranging from 12 and a half down to three that we homeschool together in like a Montessori, Waldorf, blended, makes method program. And then, you know, I've created a curriculum that will credential caregivers so that you already can have this network of caregivers who have this foundation, this understanding, this trust-based.

play-based secure attachment methodology to just layer into everything else beautiful that they offer even to teachers and caregivers and preschools and nurseries and you know the teachers can use the same dynamic of responding and not reacting and teaching the children to be solution oriented and to have predictable consistent ways of relating with the child or the children and so even at like

a training level to have that credential, you know, and when you go to college and you're learning about Piaget and all of the developmental theorists, then I'll get to be a part of that someday. Yeah, no, that would be, I think that would be, it would be so, so helpful because, ⁓ you know, what you said, responding instead of reacting is very important, but I have worked

with lots of pregnant women in the past ⁓ through my pregnancy yoga courses, also as birth preparation and then afterwards the ⁓ postnatal massages. And so much around pregnancy is fear-based, it's unbelievable. And all of that is totally unnecessary because

Trust, for me, that's the main thing is to trust and I think we all can trust our body because that's what our body is made for. The one and only thing to get children here in this life and to be that portal. Yes, and ⁓ maintain ⁓ humankind. So the body has already this huge wisdom and knows exactly what it needs to do.

But ⁓ our mind is unfortunately not in that position and the fear is really strong. so to help that with this kind of knowledge, this kind of information, at least that the information is out there is really important. Yeah. And to bring

mothers back to their sovereignty, back to their sense of empowerment and confidence and like you're saying the trust in themselves, in their community, in their environment. And also enjoying having a baby and being a mother rather than dreading the evenings or this whole build up that when it comes to sleep time or towards that and ⁓

Yeah, it's really, I think it's really a super important work and lots needs to be unlearned. Yes, yeah. And this is also where I think the colic and the purple cries and the evening witching hour comes from. Yes. It's just a buildup of the dysregulation through the day and everybody getting more exhausted and struggling and getting to that

where everyone is just, the nervous system is out of sync. And when we bring that back into balance, and that's why sleep isn't only about night, it's also about the decompression, the stimulation, the regulation, the sensory diets of the daytime. And having those rhythms so that you can move through the entire day and have those moments to reset and have the scaffolding to better understand what everyone's needs are in tandem.

That's what I've developed within the app is to create that tool that guides everybody towards that. Yes, now it is really important in Ayurveda sleep is one of the three pillars of health ⁓ and also Ayurveda doesn't see the sleep at the night activity but the whole day, your whole rhythm throughout the day really is important for your sleep, what you eat, when you eat.

when you do which activity and also what you mentioned, know, decompressing before you go to sleep and not just falling into bed to hit the pillow and to be out ⁓ there and have a not very restful sleep after all. yeah, that's that's very it's very interesting to see that it's not. I was like when there's something out there.

that sort of reinforces what Ayurveda says either through the science or through ⁓ other areas that have that same or similar ideas because everything is really interconnected. Yes, and I have something so powerful to lead into that. Yes. It's about all the babies who are being fed to sleep and fed around the clock throughout the night.

I know with Ayurveda that you want to have that rest and digest period and you want to give your body, there's like the micro regulation and there's the bigger regulation dynamics. And yes, little teeny tiny babies need to be fed in a way around the clock. However, what they don't teach you is that you do not have to wake the baby up.

to feed them constantly. And a lot of people, they do that and they're waking them up every couple of hours. so I teach families how to offer dream feeds. So the sleep and the eating happen in parallel tracks and they don't, the baby gets to experience a full night of sleep while their body gets the nourishment it needs. And once the baby has doubled their birth weight or they're more than 15 pounds, which I believe is seven or eight kilos, then you can look at very,

gracefully shifting those night calories back to the daytime and consolidating their night sleep and supporting the body and going to bed with a relaxed tummy, which then mirrors the sensations in the body. When sleep pressure is the lowest after two, three, four AM and they wake up and their body feels empty because they to bed full and something is missing, but they cannot put their finger on it. So there's this gentle strategy around

How do we ensure all their needs are met? How do they get to go to bed with a relaxed tummy and shift their calories back to the day and still have that secure attachment and be responsive and teach them to keep choosing back to sleep and consolidate their night? I think, know, because it's so interesting because the parents also don't know how to do that and how to go to bed to eat, to leave space in between meals, to leave space before they go to bed.

And so that also their system is much more at ease and can do its work in the night, what it does, rather than digesting ⁓ heavy, very late food. Yes. And then what happens to the other side of the same coin is we're going to bed.

you know, eating the second before we go to bed and then we have an expectation that we eat the second we wake up. Yes. And then you wonder why so many people are obese and struggling with emotional eating around food. Right. So there are buffers around mealtime, very gentle that again, meet all the baby or child's needs, but teach them to trust and regulate within themselves. So our

The children, I say in our care because I believe ownership is a delusion. We're born with nothing, we leave with nothing, we're poor, but the children are in our care. So the five children in our care wake up every morning. They rest awake in their bed for between 15 minutes to 45 minutes. Then at a agreed upon time, which is we use a sleep light to give them cues for transitions. They get up independently. They have a sip of water.

They do their morning potty. They brush their teeth, wash their hands and face. They go outside and do fresh air and sunlight. They do their morning meditation. And we're talking 12 years old down to three years old. And they've been doing this since two years old. And of course, you know, we have a gated yard, so we have space to do that. And it's Hawaii, so it's 70 degrees, you're wrong. But you know, you can create dynamics even inside. Absolutely. And they set their intentions for the day and they do gratitude every day. And then they come in and

make their little checklists and have their breakfast and start their homeschool and they move on with the day. And they have like those anchoring rhythms throughout that just bring them and keep them connected with their body, with each other and community. And, you know, people say, well, how do you do it with five kids and running two companies and a nonprofit and, you know, being a surrogate three times over? Like it's because everything is in a flow.

Yes. And I feel that Ayurveda really speaks to that as well. does. Yes, absolutely. It speaks to that as well. And ⁓ it is so important to understand that obviously newborn babies are different, right? But from then there, know, as they grow, they don't need to be different.

to the adults. They don't need it differently to the adults. They don't need that different times to the adults and keeping it all in ⁓ that structure so one learns from the other and one feeds the other and informs the other is so important and unfortunately it is not really like that because often

you have and you know that much more than I do, but I do work with lots of ⁓ mothers throughout the different stages. so many women, they treat their children as they can't sit with us on the table. They have different tastes and different needs. And ⁓ then it all goes a little...

What's it? It's a dissonance and a disconnect and it's a separateness. is. And it is also on the practical side, more work for the mother to do two meals, to different times rather than one is sitting with the

⁓ everybody's sitting at the same time, eating at the same time, and ⁓ even babies can sit with you while you're eating and sort of be integrated in that whole ⁓ experience. But it's also about setting the child up for success because you can't take the child from waking up in the morning, put them in the pram and take them to music class, which is input, input, input, put them back in the pram and bring them home.

and then put them in the high chair and expect them to be willing to sit still for lunchtime when they haven't even had any output to balance the input of simulation. And then you put them from the high chair into their bed and wonder why they don't want to sit still or lay down or go to sleep. The thinking of that something needs to be digested first and it's not the food, but it's his impression as well, everything that we see, what we hear. ⁓

what we smell, what we touch needs to be digested by our system. yeah, I know it is. mean, it's for both sides, know, children, learn alongside the parents, but the parents also, ⁓ yeah, sometimes would benefit from some different ideas and how things ⁓

their life, the family life could work as well. That there is more than one ⁓ way out. Yeah. And coming back to the idea of shifting calories to the day and having the spaciousness around eating and sleeping and having sleeping needs and eating needs met at the same time. It's also important to note that

in that fourth trimester, right? Zero, I would say to 12 weeks. Yes. You know, or in general, if what you're doing with your baby is working, there are babies out there, I would say about 30 % who will nurse to sleep, will maybe wake up once in the night for a nurse as they've grown bigger and they stretch out naturally. And then they sleep through till nearly morning.

and it feels manageable and if, you're co-sleeping and contact napping and if that's working for your family, then beautiful. one, you know, enjoy it and do what works at the end of your day. But there are lots of families by seven or eight weeks already, the child is having an expectation that I'm fed to sleep. Every time I wake up, I'm fed back to sleep to where they're waking up every 30 minutes, every hour, every transition between every sleep cycle.

And again, escalating, so you pick them up, you comfort them, you try to put them back down. At some point they start sleeping so lightly because they're noticing you're putting them down that they refuse to let you put them down. And this carries on for the daytime and the nighttime. so even for tiny babies that small from seven weeks or eight weeks, all of the elements of my methodology around sleep.

can be layered in or like have it stacked if you want to, you know, form a term for it. And then you can begin to shift around their relationship with those dynamics and you can still keep some balance of feeding and timing and sleeping and give them some independence. They can still co-sleep with you. My method is so friendly to co-sleeping and contact nothing because that's not the dynamic that is really underpinning everything. It's about...

you know, instilling this internal sense of security in the child, giving clear expectations, really teaching them to trust and love their sleep space, getting the skills to be in your leadership as a parent, as a caregiver, to set clear expectations and give them the freedom within healthy boundaries to grow into their capacity and their spirit and reparent yourself.

so that we can heal the intergenerational trauma. Exactly. I just wanted to say that it's a good opportunity. ⁓ I would say the majority of ⁓ women didn't grow up with that knowledge behind them. ⁓ instead of feeling guilt now and thinking, I'm doing everything wrong because I have never learned that. ⁓

to think this is the opportunity for both. For me to understand maybe where certain things come from that are still there or that a child can trigger the own emotions. And like we started off the fear and insecurities and that we can sort of manage that alongside with managing the baby.

Yes, and shepherding the child and that's just it. Absolutely. They say it can take seven generations to heal this trauma. And I feel that when you have these skills and this foundation from the beginning, from the pregnancy, from the conception point, from the idea of wanting to have a family, then you're already doing the work and aligning your energetic self and elevating your frequency to a space that

is just more spaciousness for light and love. enjoyment in general, which is so under-lifted in this life at the moment. Wonderful. I think we have here a little schedule and I don't know where we are. That's okay. We have a free flow.

We talked about unprocessed early patterns, what we had, what we just talked now a little bit too. And ⁓ what do, this maybe we haven't, or we could touch back on to what do adults wish they have understood, you know, ⁓ that a baby actually shows us really clearly. And I think the next one can go sort of in that.

that if you have already grown children, ⁓ what is still relevant from that work when you brought them up? I think they are interlinking these two questions. So if we can talk a little bit about that again. what

When you think of your clients, what they, maybe they voiced that even and expressed that, know, they have wished they could have ⁓ actually already understood clearly and ⁓ done. there is one common or something that you hear very frequently. Yeah. So, you know, I find with older children and even with adults,

you know, we all have a nervous system and our nervous system does not age out of this methodology. Right. And that's why I always try to let families know that this is universal and application. It's culturally sensitive. This is something that applies in any context and just complements the best of all worlds.

And you know, an older child or an adult, their rhythms, their sensory diets might look a little different, but they still need to learn to connect with that and come back to themselves. And oftentimes adult sleep is lacking because the brain is spinning and they don't have enough time in nature. And everyone is wearing rubber shoes, which disconnect your connection and your frequency with

the grounding of the earth. And so you need to go put your feet in the sand or in the mud or in the ground and the land. And you you're in screens too much and blue light too much and wifi too much. Everything too much. a moment. Shut it all down. Go off grid and take some time in nature and you know, yeah. So about recalibrating that nervous system within yourself, within your

partner with your children, elevating communication so that everyone is feeling better understood. And this is a simple one, but it's so profound. When I work with children of all ages, even adults, it's important to impress upon them that you're never in trouble. And this is the thing. Yes, in society you have consequences and you might be in trouble, but children learn.

that they're in trouble at school or they're at trouble with parents when there's all this punitive or dynamics where parents react or blow up or yell or shame or blame or guilt the child into doing things and reframing that entire belief and reminding them, yeah, it's okay to make a mistake as long as we make a correction and neutralizing the concept of mistakes and teaching cause and effect around

you know, situations that happen and you're not in trouble, but you've made a choice and based on this choice, this is your result. And if you would like a different result, then we're going to work as a team and come up with a different choice and you can try again when you're ready. And to be ready, we're going to take a deep breath and we're going to acknowledge that, you know, together that we've made this mistake and it's okay because we're not in trouble. This is a safe place to learn and grow and

figure out how we can show up in our highest light and how we can work in community and support our friends and also stay true to ourselves. And so that's just a little dialogue that I use with children from two up through the teen years. And I think even adults need to remember. All the adults need to remember that because what the...

I always come from myself when I see, know, when I reflect on my behaviour, it is always fear based. Yeah. What's what, what, where it starts to imbalance, you know, that is, and it is such a big driver, because fear is not necessarily a big emotion, you know, that sits in little tiny spaces and expresses itself in

gazillion ways and all of what hasn't been said is all around that, know, obviously as being in trouble, ⁓ fear of someone else doesn't understand you or someone else completely blows off to ⁓ what has said or decisions that have been made. ⁓ I think this is really a family

activity that needs to be ⁓ brought in much more. But it requires also reflection, requires that listening skills which are ⁓

Veining as well. Yeah, it requires so many things Yeah, well and even the strength to listen to a child's emotions and not try to shut them down or suppress them or avoid them or pacify them but actually to hold space and them know that It's okay to feel whatever you're feeling. However, what you're feeling is a choice and this is so deep because if you can you know guide the child from

12 months old, 18 months old, two years old, I see you're choosing sadness. You're not choosing to be trusting and that's okay. But when you choose happiness, you'll have more fun. And when you choose silliness, you'll have more fun. And when you do choose to be trusting and ask for support and think in a solution and work as a team, then everything will work out and you can do anything that you want when you're ready and when it's time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, giving the...

space to process emotions and also knowing the balance of, know, okay, with little children, they don't always know how to snap out of it. And it isn't helpful to just wait indefinitely either. So it's like teaching the parents to navigate.

How long are we gonna hold space for this tantrum, this meltdown? I didn't get the blue cup, I wanted the red cup. You cut my apple, I wanted a whole one. I said to peel it, but then I decided I didn't want it peeled. But then let's hold space long enough to acknowledge that, remind them they made a choice, walk them through that. And then, okay, we can breathe and redirect them and offer them a pathway to co-regulate. Yes, because the ⁓ concept of

that choices have consequences is really important to understand. I ⁓ think that nowadays, at least here, you can see mental health is, mental health in teenagers is in a really bad way. And bringing back this understanding that there are consequences, but they are not final.

You know, there are consequences, they came from a desire or they came from ⁓ whatever reason, it doesn't really matter, but they came from something inside and that hasn't been met in the way and that's okay as well, but that's what happens as well in life, that what makes life and also the interaction between humans. yeah, but giving parents a sense of

you know, what is normal within that range of those older adolescents and those teens and what are they typically processing and bringing them the awareness and the understanding of themselves so that they can avoid a lot of those pitfalls as well. Yes, and also for the adults to understand that concept as well, you know, look back at their ⁓ reasons for

what was there, wish was there, desire was there that didn't form in the way they wanted it and to live with that or to correct it. But ⁓ there are consequences from our behaviour and ⁓ in yoga they are brought all down to the desire. First is the desire and then comes all of whatever comes out of it and if it's not met.

how it ⁓ escalates into total meltdowns. But to have that understanding for adults is very important and ⁓ to see how it lives in them, how it works out in them. that this is just in a different way is the child. The inner child and the outer child, small child, that it is just the same what they see but what they experience in

as well. And I think that's really important that there's no foreign objects there or foreign life form but something just in a different shape, a smaller shape than they have. And I call this address the behaviour while meeting the need. Teach them to meet the need while still

addressing, supporting the behaviour, the parents, the child, teens, and channeling that energy in a constructive way. Wonderful. This is so interesting and I think it is so super relevant. if you would have, if ⁓ you have someone there with, or maybe someone listening to that with no idea, we say, okay, this all sounds really good.

give me one or two things that I can do straight away, something really easy, I mean, in question marks easy, to what they can implement either for themselves or for their children or for their grandchildren. It goes, like you said, through the generations and even grandparents, can sort of settle with how they got brought up and how they react then to the grandchild.

Yeah, so we can work through the different stages. with the, let's say the youngest ⁓ or young babies who are... ⁓

We'll go, let's go all the way to if you are in that pregnancy stage, right? So I would say a key takeaway for the pregnancy would really be focusing on your breath. If you don't already meditate, start learning how to meditate. You know, there are beautiful tone speakers that I recommend to families and someday I'll have my own version of this product, but they ⁓ offer binaural beats.

It's just for a couple of minutes, but you can just a couple times a day, hold them in your hands, lay back, close your eyes and just take deep breaths in your nose and out of your mouth. Because the breath and taking time as a practice to connect with your breath is imprinting your nervous system and your unborn child's nervous system for safety and for calm. And so that is a great one for a key takeaway for that age. And then you have your born.

baby and you're in that fourth trimester and I would say you know a big key takeaway is going to be about like finding the courage to ask for support. If you're you know communicate what your needs are and be willing to accept that support. It's so tricky for some people to.

you know, be willing when they feel like they have to do it all as the mother and they have to. That's actually why a lot of families struggle to have coaching around sleep because they feel shame that they should already know what to do and that they should do it themselves. And I don't think that that's true at all. think that, you know, I came to this earth, I developed this skill set, but I feel like it came channeled through me and working with, you know, tens of thousands of families and

I think that it's a gift that I'm here to give back to the world. we all have different giftings and we can give those to each other. ⁓ just to not to interrupt, but it is ⁓ for adults equally important to, ⁓ or I do sleep classes as well. So for them to understand ⁓ where Ayurveda comes from.

⁓ the impact of ⁓ the rhythms of the day and ⁓ how they are lived and the impact on that is for them just as revelating where they think, wow, I didn't think of that because lots of ⁓ most adults, I think they don't entertain these.

thoughts that there's more behind them that they need to look at something different. What we don't know that we don't know. ⁓ To educate them, that's really good. But when you were saying these babies, what do you think about?

because they are responding to sounds and to the vibrations of the sounds to have them close by while you're humming. You know, it's something very simple. Yes. ⁓ Of what everyone can do. Yeah. And two more key takeaways for the baby ages. One is to stop saying...

Uh-oh. Every time something drops because you're actually wiring the child to be pessimistic and see that something happens and then there's this problem as opposed to, wow, I see the cup fell. Say support, please, and let's pick it up. So the cause and effect in a neutral way more so than... And I've heard caregivers and parents 50 times a day say, uh-oh. And it's like, if we only have so much bandwidth to regulate throughout the day,

bringing your awareness to that particular phrase. And I have an article that I've written on this, I'll put on my app. ⁓ that gives much more reasoning behind it. But just bring your awareness to that simple reaction and try and come up with a neutral response. then also for babies, not try and be aware where you're rescuing them. Where did you pick them up for crying? And what could you do instead? they've woken up.

crying in their bed. know this is going to sound silly, but climb in the bed with them. Bring the toys. Offer them a little distraction. Offer them that closeness, that proximity. Talk to them. Show them the toys. Play with them. Calm them down together. And if after 30 seconds, 30 seconds to a minute, they haven't calmed with your effort right beside them, bring them to your lap.

and spend another 30 seconds to a minute to continue to calm them. And if they don't calm then say, okay, let's clean up our toys and come out together. So then you spend 30 seconds modeling cleaning up, then you climb out and then you say, watch, I'm putting the basket away. would you like to come out? Say up please. And then pick them up and.

bring them that reassurance, right? Because it's a change, so they're still gonna actually escalate further at first. But even with just that pattern of responding and not reacting and not rescuing them, I guarantee you within a week or two of like, you know, we respond even from the monitor. I hear you, I'm coming, then you get in the room, 30 seconds in the room beside them, 30 seconds to a minute in beside them, then to your lab, then clean up.

then come out like you it's a three to five minute process. But they will learn to trust that pattern and they will start calming down quicker. And then before you know it, they'll just calm down when you tell them I'll be right in. I love you be trusting two minute time check until it's time for nap time to be done. Yeah. And you know, so that and even the same thing, they're down on their play mat and they're crying and reaching up for you don't just rescue them and pick them up. Sit down beside them.

offer to play with them, be close to them. And then the same thing, if they don't calm down, bring them to your lab. If they still don't calm down, try different toys or change to a hug standing position, then get up with them. But it's that responding dynamic. And I think it is a good word that you use is rescue. Yeah. Obviously intentional using that, but it is.

There's nothing to rescue and an adult knows that. So if they are aware that this will maybe to the baby seem ⁓ like it, ⁓ then it makes it more understandable why they maybe go on the floor with them and play a little and sort of wind them out of this situation into a new one.

Yeah, and the same for when parents, dad is holding the baby and the baby wants mom. And they're like, ⁓ and they just take them. They rescue them. Now dad is the bad guy. Mom is the savior. And we learn that's an effective way to communicate versus holding the hands. know, I know you want mommy. Daddy's having a turn. Let's set our time timer for 30 seconds or let's count from 10 and then it will be mommy's turn because everyone gets a turn and you're very animated about it. 10.

nine, eight, and you count down and you dance and you're silly. Time are finished, mommy's turn, come to mommy. And like little by little though, like start to see that like, okay, we don't need to be rescued. We don't need to panic to get someone else. We can trust everyone has a turn. We can like communicate those transitions so that we don't put all the emotional weight on the mother who unintentionally burdened herself with that choice.

and then wonders why she can't have any support but she wanted to be the one always rescuing and I'm there for the child but so it's like working with that dichotomy. Yeah I think that's very interesting and it is really it is instilling the trust you know and I always come back with okay there's some

distrust already in the adult needing to do something and it gets projected to the child, but not knowingly. Right. It's all unintentional. It is all unintentional. do think, that's the best and that is actually what will reassure the child that they say, oh, that's it. Look, now you're here. Yeah. Like you said at the beginning at the safe space.

and ⁓ that it doesn't communicate that they might see all the other spaces then as unsafe. Yeah, exactly. And with older children, a key takeaway would be coming back to that special mommy time, that special daddy time. A lot of adolescent children are so used to just surviving the day, all the routines, like, and they're coping with

You know, all the other siblings are getting the attention and I'm not having that quality time anymore. So mix it up, get out of the routine, do something spontaneous and special with that child. Sit down with them and say, here's my schedule. I have two hours in this block. What should we do? Let's make a bucket list together of fun places to go or fun experiences to have. And let's fit that in, even if it's a little bit every week. And then, you know, with even older...

teens and yourself as an adult, I would just say starting to have more gratitude practices and reflection on things that are going well to balance all of the doom and gloom and try and, you know, give yourself some grace for all of your hard work and know that you cannot pour from an empty cup and as depleted as you are without enough sleep or support or community and isolated, like come back.

to, you know, just... Yeah, so to a sense of, yeah, I know, I understand to nourish and nurture yourself as well. Yeah. And I also think, you know, making a child happy in a way, you know, ⁓ they want time and it doesn't take...

five hours to play or to, you can always squeeze like is that five minutes? There's a lot done in five minutes for the small child. Yeah, there is. And ⁓ they are happy and they are happy by themselves maybe playing or ⁓ it's because the time is such an issue that it is not enough time that we have.

that I don't have enough time. I can't now do that because I have something different to do. It also brings the adult out of that time scarcity mode where I think, I can't be two minutes with you because what's done in the two minutes. Right. But it's actually not that at all because first off, the time is something we make. And it's not even about the time for the child. It's about the presence. Yes. Exactly.

I created literally a whole poster, special mummy time, special daddy time, best friends forever time when we're doing something special for siblings once a week. And then we put it on our schedule, even on my Google calendar, and the kids come and they pick what color. And I'm like, look, I have 10 minutes between these two work meetings, and what are we going to do?

I remember one special mommy time we just chewed gum and blowed bubbles and then we take a selfie of it and we have a photo album called special mommy time and it stays by their bed and they look at it every day and all they remember is I always get special mommy time and they don't remember if it was two minutes or five minutes or seven minutes they just remember we made muffins one time we did a little project one time we blowed bubbles we

you know, went outside in colored rocks and just little simple things, but it's just bringing their awareness and attention to it. And then, and what I do is I work from home. So I tell my caregiver, you know, okay, I'll be down in a half an hour, give my child a half an hour time check. They set the visual timer for 30 minutes.

As the countdown comes, they get them excited and they're waiting for me. I'm coming down the stairs and mommy! We have a big hug and quick, quick, let's set our time timer for seven minutes and then off we go. And we have some very high energy connected present time together, tickles and snuggles and whatever we're gonna do. We add our selfie, add it to our photo album. And then a big hug and a kiss and be trusting I'll always come back. We check my schedule again. Okay, I'll be back in two more hours until my next meeting.

And off I go. And they're perfectly happy with that. Yes, yes. It all comes down again to the communication. Yeah. This is this. And I think that's taking a photo is such a good idea and pointing out and putting it out into something tangible so they can see, OK, yes, actually, yeah. We did a lot of special things together. Yeah, absolutely. It's really important for them. And that bucket list for even adults. Yes.

Create a bucket list. Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? Look in your town, your city, your state, your island, your country. You know, what do you have that you haven't done before? And we actually categorize like a spreadsheet. What can be done in under 15 minutes? What takes about a half an hour? What takes an hour? What takes a full day? What takes a weekend? What takes a trip? And then we just kind of put in little blocks here and there and the kids get really excited to pick their activities. And it also shows them.

Planning. Planning, exactly. Time management. doesn't need that much time. 15 minutes, can always spare 15 minutes, even if you have a really busy day. ⁓ Wonderful. That's really, there are some really good ideas, I think, that you brought up with everyone can ⁓ do that. ⁓ Now, my last question ⁓ to you is for yourself. ⁓

So you say you're coming from, you're living in Hawaii, you're coming to London, so you're traveling through multiple time zones. ⁓ then when you arrive at your destination in Ayurveda is this vata dosha, which is completely ⁓ irregularity, can't sleep. ⁓

eating at the wrong times, at what the body is used to at home, time is different, maybe the appetite is not there, sweet is what it's light, you know. How do you manage that? How do you deal with that? Yeah, so the biggest piece about that is actually your mindset. And, you know, I've traveled the world over 20 countries and lots of shifting time zones and lots of being up

10 times a night teaching another child to consolidate their sleep and guiding up to 20 families at a time on my little cameras and messaging everybody what to say and do and how to regulate them. And mindset is a big one, right? The same thing about scarcity around time or money or love or anything in life. When you have an abundant mindset, when you keep a open heart, when you keep a positive

frame of reality and you stay kind of peaceful and you're focusing on your breath, like it's a lot easier to kind of shift and adjust within, you know, the fabric of time. Now, granted, if I'm traveling with children, it's different than traveling on my own because traveling with children, you have to regulate the child, space for the child. You're entertaining them, what you pack for them, when you feed them, how you shift.

their sleep to set them up for success for where they're going next. And I guide families on all of this. Travel and time zone changes is a huge ⁓ perspective that I have in traveling so much myself with families, with my own, the children in our care, working with ⁓ a lot of families who just travel and that's how their life is. ⁓

When I'm traveling myself, I also try to sleep as much as possible on all of the flights. And I'm mindful of like, what time zone am I coming into? Okay, I'm coming into, you know, London at... So I left Hawaii at 11.50, nearly midnight, and it was a red-eye into San Francisco. So I slept through most of that flight, but I get into San... But it's a short, you know, six-hour night, essentially.

get into San Francisco at seven in the morning. So now I have to keep myself up and encourage myself to eat something, have a little protein, drink some tea, keep moving, drink some water, keep myself busy because I really want to sleep and I feel a little disoriented and groggy, but I just kind of keep focusing forward. And then I get on the flight to London by noon in California time and then I'm landing in London at...

Essentially 7 a.m. The next day London time so now I have like had to compress an entire day and night so I had you know an hour or two I was Maybe three hours. I was awake and trying to stay busy when again I wanted to sleep, but I had to kind of have the discipline to stay up. Yeah, yeah, and then

Thankfully also no one was sitting beside me so I could lay out and I have no shame to curl up on two seats on the plane. And I just commit to sleeping or at least resting. even if I can't sleep, I've developed this way of just keeping my eyes closed and again focusing on my breathing and just keeping no matter what happens, just keep my eyes closed the entire and I'll pause to use the bathroom or have a little water, but I just carry myself through.

until right before we're going to land. And then I'll get up and I'll eat something or I'll save all the food that's come and decide what I want to eat. And once I get here, because it's morning now again, I'm tempted to want to nap. But I just have to kind of move on and move through the day. And I plan an easeful day. And I plan to go to bed early the next night and plan to have a full night. And usually by the second or third day, I'm completely shifted into

that the rhythms and the time zone there. But it's knowing how all the pieces fit together, knowing how to see the whole path ahead and navigate where to sleep and how to regulate myself. And it's the same way I can bring that skill set down for a family who has many children and how to navigate each of those rhythms. That's right. So it's all about... ⁓

looking ahead. Yes, very much. It's all about like, I don't know if you have scouts and girls guides, be prepared. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. That was super interesting. And I think, and I hope and I'm sure that

There are lots of women out there listening to that. They can relate to that in different stages of their lives and it is relevant for everyone, not just for children. I find this all is also adult management ⁓ and everyone can really learn so much from that and can also then look at

your website which is? Why thank you. The MsMeg app.com. The MsMeg app. That's very easy to remember. MsMeg. Yes and infiniteconnection.co. So I have two sites right now but I'll give them to you. I will put everything in the show notes and they can connect, they can read up. You said you have a blog.

I have an app that is going to be launching very, soon. That's probably the time everyone watches this. That's perfect. And then you can have lots of the information, which I find super important that we learn and that we really inform ourselves what how we are because we are in this body, but we always not.

necessarily don't understand it so well, or we don't understand the mind so well, so that we get different ideas, different input. And you said it's infinite, infinite connections that we get into that abundant mindset and ⁓ out of this very festering scarcity mindset. And ⁓ yeah, and give that to others.

friends, family, children, grandchildren, whoever needs to know that because I think that's all what yoga is about and yeah to have a more calmer fulfilled enjoyable life. Yeah. Yes.

And I actually had one last wisdom for the grandparents. Yes. Because I find that parents really want to include their grandparents with their children in their care. And there's a lot of ⁓ barriers and limitations and trauma that even they carry. Yes. And then when the parents want to live differently and they don't want to force the children to eat.

you know, like the old kind of ways, or they don't want to push the children in certain power dynamics that used to be very relevant. So I give families this bridge where we set the child up for success and you set the grandparents up for success. So you need to learn where, like what's meaningful for the grandparents and how to create special time with the child to the grandparents.

where there isn't going to be this pressure because I have this one particular family I'm thinking of that they have Chinese heritage and the grandparents are forcing the grandchildren to eat and they're forcing them to do certain things and listen in certain ways and the children completely are afraid of them and they don't feel safe with them because their boundaries are not honored and respected and so and then the

the mother has a hard time even getting the grandparents to like realize that these ways from the past are so limiting. yeah, yeah. And so, you know, finding the wisdom that the grandparents have to share and I make custom children's books around any topic, but also specifically for the grandparents and

what their wisdom is and what their giftings are and reading that to the children so they already kind of have them in a good light. And then making sure that we're setting them up to do positive time and experiences together that isn't going to eat if they're going to force the child to eat. Maybe we're just going to go to a zoo or go to the art museum or do something that's a little bit safer for everybody. So we set them up for success.

And then have boundaries and teach the children to advocate for themselves as well. You can tell grandpa, no thank you and please respect my boundaries. And if they've communicated that and the parent has backed them up and they're still not listening because it happens, then we say thank you. It's been such a nice visit and we will see you soon. And you have to have the courage to leave and to stand your ground. Otherwise you're just setting the child up.

to be unintentionally abused and learn that that's how dynamics and relationships should happen. And we don't want to recreate that either. this is for all ages and all dynamics. Absolutely. And very important to really understand these dynamics, they stay. We can change them. It takes a little effort as well.

some creativity as well and but it is really important and also knowing that the grandparents they also come from their best of course Of course everyone does the best they can at the tools they have at the time and so it's so unintentional but instead of just avoiding family members who are isolating it's like set everyone up for success find a common ground. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Yes, absolutely. So that was a good last tip. So thank you very much for joining in this sort of living room space atmosphere. And I hope you enjoy that as well. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye.

Katja Patel (1:13:51)
Thank you so much for listening to Rooted in the Seasons. If you enjoyed this episode you can subscribe or follow Rooted in the Seasons on Spotify or Apple Podcast. That's why new episodes land automatically for you. If you like more support between episodes you can download my free guide My 5 Quick Ayurvedic Fixes

from Skettard to Steady and join my Sunday Read newsletter. You'll find the link in the show notes and all other links that are relevant for this season, for this episode as well.

If something in today's episode resonated, I'd genuinely love to hear from you. You can connect with me on Substack or even better, send me an email. I always read and answer them. Until next time, stay rooted in the seasons. Bye bye.