The Health Huns
The Messy Side of Health and Fitness!
Your favourite amateur athletes keeping it real, discussing the messy side of health and fitness
The Health Huns
EP.10 Body Image: The Messy Truth About How We See Ourselves
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The mirror doesn't lie—but our perception certainly can. In this raw, unfiltered conversation about body image, we peel back the layers of how we see ourselves and why that vision is so often distorted by external forces.
From our earliest memories of being called "piglet" or feeling out of place in gymnastics leotards, we share our personal journeys with body image and the complicated emotions that persist even after significant weight loss. That crushing realisation that dropping sizes doesn't automatically fix your self-perception hits hard for many—begging the question: if changing our bodies isn't the answer, what is?
We dive into the fascinating research showing who struggles most with body image (women, gay men, and bisexual people top the list) and why the male gaze seems to be the common denominator. Meanwhile, lesbians report higher body satisfaction, though even within these communities, complex body standards exist. And what about straight men? Their silence on body image doesn't mean they're immune—the pressure to appear strong, muscular, and "manly" creates its own toxic cycle.
From aesthetic procedures to social media filters, we examine the modern tools that promise confidence but often perpetuate insecurity. Is Botox the problem, or is it the society that makes us feel we need it? We explore body neutrality as a more sustainable alternative to toxic positivity and discuss how to navigate a world that profits from our self-doubt.
Whether you've struggled with body image your whole life or are supporting someone who has, this conversation offers perspective, validation, and perhaps a little peace. Because at the end of the day, we all deserve to exist comfortably in our bodies—whatever shape, size, or form they take.
I then proceeded to sit on my trophy and it snapped in half.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Health Huns, the pod where we discuss the messy side of health and fitness.
Speaker 1:From gym fails to newfound communities.
Speaker 2:We're here to help you feel like less of a failure and find your place in the messy world of health and fitness.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to episode 1010 of the Health Huns. We made it to 10 episodes, amber. I mean, that's actually quite impressive Did you think?
Speaker 2:I mean, I actually did think we would get to 10 episodes.
Speaker 1:There's not much I think we can't do, clearly, clearly. And also, we hit another milestone over the weekend. Yes, we did, we got 500 total downloads.
Speaker 2:No, it was more over 500. Over 500.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is pretty good going, according to Google.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean most podcasts don't make it this far.
Speaker 1:No, they do. Like what three episodes and they give up. Yeah, we have a fun giveaway for our 10th episode, don't we?
Speaker 2:Yes, we do.
Speaker 1:Do you want to tell the Huns?
Speaker 2:Well, huns we've got you a cookbook Mm-hmm, healthy-ish, because we're all about ish, ish.
Speaker 1:A little weekly planner yeah, like a little note, like post-it note, vibe yeah I love a weekly planner.
Speaker 2:Um, I live my life through lists. Um, some cute little highlighters with faces on them. They are cute, uh, if you're a runner, or maybe you just want it for fun. Um, I've decided to include a new energy gel that I'm going to try. What flavour is?
Speaker 1:it, vimto it's.
Speaker 2:Vimto Endurance Isotonic Energy Gel Yummy, and it's sugar-free, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean yeah it might be good A £15 voucher from Cookie Co, who makes excellent bakes and a Gator 5K brand new tote bag Exciting and a pair of Gator 5K socks Wow, what more could you want?
Speaker 2:Not a lot.
Speaker 1:And that's only 10 episodes. Imagine what the giveaway will be at 20.
Speaker 2:It's going to be a meet and greet with us.
Speaker 1:Oh, people would love that. Yeah, We'd actually probably need a really big venue.
Speaker 2:Mmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So topic of today is Body image. Mmm, I mean, where to begin? Where do we start? It's such a. We say this every episode. I know, but it we start, it's such a we say this every episode, I know, but it is a big topic and it's a delicate one, so we hope we can do it in a sensitive way today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I've been talking all week to my clients about this and I mean I feel like body image is something that affects everyone really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in some way good or bad, I guess. Yeah, a lot of it is just simply how you perceive yourself and how you then think others perceive you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is ultimately what equates to a good or a bad body image, I think and I think that's really interesting, because surely we're all striving to have a better body image, but actually if if you see people out there that are like loving themselves, what do people think of them?
Speaker 1:we're not allowed to do that. Either they're big-headed or they think they're the best. Yeah, you know, they need to have a reality check or yeah whatever. So we literally really cannot win, and self-deprecation is almost well, it's a very accepted part of being a woman. You can't be too happy with how you look when someone gives you a compliment like oh your, I don't know, your hair looks good.
Speaker 2:Oh, I haven't washed it in three days three days yeah you know, it's always that like rebuttal yeah, rather than just saying thanks, yeah, thanks, I know this is a five-step hair care routine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course it looks great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, snoop dog uh, so yeah, I am snoop dog.
Speaker 1:People on the pod are probably like yeah, don't worry, we'll put a picture up, maybe explain that. So, yeah, body image it is the definition or kind of what it is is how we think and feel about our body. Yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one in five people I found out feel shame about their body and how it looks I'm surprised it's only one in five well, I think the next category was like 30 or something, um dislike the way they look, but that means 70 like the way they look and I'm really surprised by that well, I guess if you are doing a survey a, you have to be a certain type of person.
Speaker 1:To do a survey b, are you going to be super forthcoming, are you going to be one of like really I hate myself every single day, or you're going to play it down a bit? Yeah, sometimes I'm dissatisfied about the way I look. Yeah, I mean, 105's still quite a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean it is a lot, but I did think it would be higher.
Speaker 1:I reckon it is I think that was from 2019 as well that survey I?
Speaker 2:mean we probably hate ourselves a bit more now. Hopefully, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's hard to like yourself. What do you think about your body? I have an interesting relationship with my body. So back in the day, like when I was growing up, I always hated my body because I always felt like I was a fat friend. All my friends were like super skinny and pretty and girly and then, on top of like not liking my body, I also was like a lesbian. Yeah, my body. I also was like a lesbian. Yeah, coming out in high school and quite like being confidently open and gay. But there's like always another added thing of like how you look as a lesbian sometimes yeah, there's a stereotypes, um, the categories that you fit in and all these kind of things.
Speaker 1:And then, when I lost loads of weight, I still didn't like my body, which I was like are you taking the piss? I've done all this and I still don't like myself. And I I was always in that I'll be happy when trap. And now, while I don't hate my body, I suppose there's certain elements related to like gender and maybe like how I identify that leads me to want to change part of my body. Okay, for you know, it's a very I don't hate my body anymore, mm-hmm, and I'm not desperate to change it, but I still don't feel 100% comfortable in it. Okay, how about you? I mean, I have a complex relationship with% comfortable in it. Okay, how?
Speaker 2:about you. I mean, I have a complex relationship with my body as well. So I always hated my body and thought it was, you know, the downfall of everything in my life. And then I lost 10 stone and thought, well, actually I lost 10 stone before, well before, well, no, maybe about eight stone when I was about 30 and, uh, thought that would change my life. But then I put it all back on, plus more, really quickly, um, so I don't feel like I ever got to grips with it then, um, and this time I wouldn't say I'm happy with my body, but also I kind of love it. Yeah, in a way like, like it's hot now and I'm sitting here in a sports bra and I would never have done that before, but I'm just like it's no different to wearing a vest, really, no, like, and I'm hot. I don't know, maybe it's less about what it looks like now, but, but just it can do things and I don't know, I don't hate it. Sometimes I love it. There's bits I do hate about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, siri, alexa's coming on. Alexa, oh 10.
Speaker 2:Things I Hate About you just came on by Miley Cyrus. Yeah, I don't know. Know, I don't hate it. I sort of sometimes love it, but I do hate things about it and what?
Speaker 1:why do you hate the things about it? Not like because of mezzo, how they look, is it? Is it just how they look and how they feel, or is it, like I said at the beginning, how you want to be perceived?
Speaker 2:you feel isn't, doesn't come across because of how certain parts of your body looked, or whatever um, so I mean the things that I don't like is my tummy, because that's where I still carry weight, and I don't like I don't care when I'm wearing like normal clothes, because you can't really tell, but if I'm like wearing like leggings and a vest to go to the gym, like because I've got quite small legs, it I just feel like it sort of sits on me and you can really see it, and if I'm running, it bounces around and jiggles and that's actually quite annoying yeah um, but I mean, you know, I don't really care about my arms, like I always have my arms out.
Speaker 2:That's not really a problem, like it is literally just this, but I think it's. It is because of how it looks, but it's, um, I think, body image.
Speaker 1:You can be quite comfortable with yourself and still have bad body image days. I think, where the the point I've got to is the days when I just don't feel comfortable and I'm just like I'm fucking disgusting. You know that white chick scene when she's like. Tina the talking tummy and she's like grabbing all the parts yeah it doesn't knock me off kilter as much that you see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I can be very like oh, I feel a bit rubbish about this part of my body today. I normally go, I'm just gonna wear something I feel really comfortable in and I'm just gonna allow it to feel like that today yeah, I think wearing something that you feel comfortable in is massive yeah you don't always have to be stepping outside your comfort zone and wearing like a vest or short shorts or whatever yeah sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself on a bad body image day, from my experience, is to accept that's how you feel, yeah, and then do stuff that makes you feel comfortable and makes you feel good and if that's wearing an oversized baggy hoodie with some joggers fine, yeah I totally agree.
Speaker 2:We gotta get through the day. You know what I mean? Yeah, we have. So where do you think? Where does this all stem from? Well, where are some of the ways? Because I know we're going to touch on something else later, but when do you? Where do you think kids first? Where do kids first start thinking about their bodies?
Speaker 1:I think when they get to that development, developmental point where they can compare things, so like ziggy at the minute, he keeps talking about people's eye colors because his friends, he's like three, three and a half, so at nursery they all look like they know each other's eye colors. That's weird because it's like oh, you've got blue eyes, I've got brown eyes, he's got green eyes okay, and I don't he hasn't got any like moral association with if one's good or one's bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he started to notice that people have different things on their body. I think it's when you start then associating meaning to how someone looks. So often not so much anymore, but definitely in like the noughties, the nineties and probably since TVs came out Mm-hmm, if someone was fat on Teddy, they were more often than not a character that was lazy or angry, evil, evil or um, whatever. Well, let's look at disney ursula, yeah, um, a lot of the villains in disney are bigger women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are big animals, yeah, which is. And also, interestingly, the villains, who are men, are often very skinny, and jafar, exactly. Wow. So actually really disney have fucked us up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean who designed beauty standards. Look at the princesses skinny white, fair-skinned disney's got a lot to answer for.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, going back to, where does it stem from? I think more media yeah, massively is where it stems from, and it doesn't matter what trend is trending, but they drive what is in, what is out. You know, look at the minute with skinny chic is back heroin chic is back in for what reason? I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's many potential reasons, but I guess if you think about like children, a lot of that does affect them, but it doesn't. But maybe, like when you go to school, they're like this is what a healthy body looks like. And I remember as a child, being small and like, always knowing that my parents thought I was fat, and I look back on pictures of me.
Speaker 1:I was not you knew your parents thought you were fat. Yeah, well explain. Do you want to go into that?
Speaker 2:I just about like, I think my dad used to call me piglet.
Speaker 1:My dad used to sing to me the tango song burley's gonna get you, and then late. I'm just going to find a picture right.
Speaker 2:So here I was. As a child, I wasn't very big.
Speaker 1:No way is that you as a child. You look like a completely different person. These are good pictures for how long ago it was, I know back in the back in the olden days. Ok, weird one, matthew Green, looks like your dad no, he doesn't yeah, so I wasn't. Are you naturally blonde?
Speaker 2:yeah, crazy, I love that you have to post some of these on.
Speaker 1:Instagram okay.
Speaker 2:I will specifically, maybe we need this one, your modelling days.
Speaker 1:I know I love it, oh god. Yeah, you weren't a tubby little kid at all, no, you were pretty standard. Yeah, and also tubby kids are cute.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, babies that have rolls are cute. They're the cutest. But yeah, like I always remember, like my nickname was piglet and like I remember, just I remember things. I remember going I don't know a party or something with my dad and my stepmom, who was evil If you're listening, you're an evil stepmother but like I think I tried garlic bread for the first time and garlic bread is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's one of your core memories, I know amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this will be a core memory, I know. And like they laughed at me because I was enjoying garlic bread what?
Speaker 1:yeah, like she really laughed at me like oh, look at you and I'm like, yes, delicious yeah so I I remember there always being comments and things about what I ate, what I looked like like from a, really like from like four or five yeah, I don't remember any of my family really saying anything to me like I was a fat, chubby kid, literally from the minute I was born, like I was just born that way. As Lady Gaga said, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born that way. Um, it was when I the first memory I have of being aware of my chubbiness was when my mum, for some reason, put me into gymnastics, okay, and you had to wear the leotards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I you know, in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, not the old one, not the brand new one, but the one in the middle with Johnny Depp in yes, when Veruca Salt is it? Veruca Salt gets blown up into a big blueberry.
Speaker 2:Violet Beauregard.
Speaker 1:That one. Yeah, sorry, that's what I look like in my leotard. Okay, I'm going to do a little fun story about this. So I went into gymnastics. I couldn't do a handstand, I couldn't do a cartwheel. I could just about maybe squeeze out a roly-poly. So I stood out anyway for my lack of ability. I was the fattest kid in that group, at like four or five years old, and every week a kid got the trophy of like the best gymnastic of the week. Yeah, it got to the end of the block. I hadn't had my turn so.
Speaker 1:I naturally was given the trophy out of pity. I was so excited. I showed my mom, showed my dad. When I got in the car I then proceeded to sit on my trophy and it snapped in half and my mom and dad had to see for the back together before the week, next week gymnastics. Oh. So you had to take it back. So that was like my first. I don't know if I knew at the time, but when I look back, that's when I have that realization oh, my body is different and it's not really a good thing, because I can't do all these things.
Speaker 1:People are doing yeah so maybe, yeah, like four or five years old, when you can start comparing, when you can understand what's being said to you yeah, yours is way nicer. I wish I had the garlic bread memory I?
Speaker 2:I mean, I still love garlic bread to this day. What can I say? I don't love gymnastics. Did you want to go to?
Speaker 1:gymnastics my mum made me do.
Speaker 2:She made me try all the sports I remember going to a dance school and like having to go and get dance clothes, yeah, and like they were all tiny, yeah, and like I wasn't particularly big, big, but it was a struggle to get things to fit because all of the other children were like tiny little waifs.
Speaker 1:I was a big kid right when I started high school I was in like m&s office wear because like none of the shirts would fit me so I had to go and get like a blouse.
Speaker 2:The trousers were so long, so like a size 14 yeah, I mean this is just like a bit of a trauma session for us going back onto our childhood body image traumas yeah, I think it does stay with you, doesn't it? We can laugh about it now, but I also remember at school, in middle school, being in like a PE lesson or something and we all had to get weighed.
Speaker 1:I had that same experience.
Speaker 2:I don't remember what I weighed, but it was like a lot more than anybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did they send it home to your parents?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't have to have it done now, do you, which I think is actually a good thing.
Speaker 1:It's not been that long, because I remember having it done when I was like 10. Anyway, that's another story for another time.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's brutal out there and it starts young starts where you even understand what's going on yeah, I think we, particularly women and girls, are made to feel that we shouldn't like our bodies, and we should always be striving for it to be better and to be perfect because we spend a lot of money doing that. So absolutely crazy what they say follow the cash, follow the money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it all goes back to how many problems can we create? How much money can we make from the solutions?
Speaker 2:and when you hate yourself, you will spend a lot of money trying to make yourself feel better and do a lot of crazy shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, that's it. We sold it really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just stop buying things Stop buying things.
Speaker 1:Revolt, yeah, what's next?
Speaker 2:So what is the difference between a poor body image and body dysmorphic disorder?
Speaker 1:I think they're two of the same thing. They really intertwine and cross over, don't they? Yeah, I think body dysmorphia is more of a diagnosed issue, maybe, whereas body image is just a concept that everyone has some sort of feeling towards their body good, bad, neutral maybe body dysmorphic disorder is just the next level of having a bad poor body image, like it really affecting your day-to-day life.
Speaker 2:Stopping you, and I guess often as well it's. People look in the mirror and they see something that is totally different to what is there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or overestimating the effect of something on their body is going to have on them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they might well have bingo wings, but then they're like this is going to ruin my life if I don't get this fixed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I consulted with Google and A trusty research partner. Me and Google are becoming very well acquainted. Sponsorship, um. So some of the symptoms of body dysmorphia constantly checking the mirror or avoiding the mirror, trying to hide your body, constantly exercising and grooming, comparing your body to others and asking others do I look okay? So actually I do feel like that is quite similar, maybe, to having poor body image, do?
Speaker 1:you know what that sounds like being in a girl's toilet in a nightclub? Yeah, it does. Like I'm pretty sure that's the kind of what happens in that order as well. Yeah, yeah, god, I'm glad I don't go to nightclubs anymore.
Speaker 2:I mean to be fair.
Speaker 1:I met some great girls in the toilets of nightclubs, some left now is there? No, me and shannon are gonna buy them all up, all of them, the whole way across prince wales that would be quite the change for prince wales.
Speaker 2:For anybody listening that doesn't know prince wales, it is a street that used to be lined with nightclubs. Now maybe just kebab shops in Norwich. Yeah, weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's rough, it's disgusting yeah, very much anyway um body dysmorphia.
Speaker 2:Back to it yeah, so I mean I guess body dysmorphic disorder is potentially it's more dangerous because people could go to more extreme lengths to change the way they look.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That could be surgery, aesthetics, could even be self-harm and things like that. So at that point, if you do think you're suffering with it, then a good place to start to get advice and support is beatingdisordersorguk. Yeah, I guess that leads on quite nicely to changing the way you look is it good, is it bad?
Speaker 1:do we need to? It's hard, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I mean, I am somebody who I have botox lip fillers, I've got cheek filler, yeah yeah, but no, uh, I have. I've had. Actually, I've probably had it for a couple of years and I'm booked in on the 24th to have it all done again yeah, but you do look great. Like you know, it doesn look good well, the thing is like losing weight, especially as, like, like I am a middle-aged woman, like you heard it here first, guys, I'm a middle-aged woman, amber was shocked the other day that she was actually 17 years older than me and that she could be my mom.
Speaker 2:I'm still shocked by that um, but yeah, like you know, you do lose collagen and stuff in your face and when you lose weight, like I just noticed that, like at the minute, I feel like I've got quite maybe this is me talking about my poor body image but like I've got circles under my eyes that I never used to have, but it's because they're a bit hollow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like my cheeks are flat and but it's not what that's really interesting, because it's not that having hollow cheeks and bags under your eyes are innately bad features. It's because of what we associate with that tired, haggard middle-aged got it. There's nothing worse than being a woman, oh yeah out of it. You know, yeah, it's not that these things just look bad because they look bad.
Speaker 2:It's what we associate yeah with it which causes the bad body image and the interesting thing with. I was talking to somebody about like what I was having done the other day and I was like nobody else will probably notice, but I will notice and I will feel better. But nobody else will probably even notice. The only thing people really notice I have done is like my lips and that's it. But by having it done, it makes me feel better, which is a weird thing, isn't it? Because, like, if people don't notice it, why is it so important?
Speaker 1:Because I think it goes to confidence self-esteem like if you if you look in the mirror and you don't hate your face, you're probably going to have a better day than if you wake up and hate your face. Yeah, yeah for what you know, for whatever reason, because you are perceiving yourself differently, which then makes what you think other people are perceiving you as different as well. Yeah, it's like if you go out and you feel really confident you, then you're not worried that people are looking at you.
Speaker 1:That is very true you are feeling if you love your outfit. Your hair looks good, your eyebrows are on point, your lips have been done, you're feeling fresh, you smell good, you're not paranoid people think you're ugly no, you're like you fancy me while you're looking at me? Yeah, absolutely, and I do think it's that massive like to be perceived. And what are those people thinking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when do you know what? 75% of the people out there probably aren't thinking anything about you. I don't give a shit. 15% probably think you're fit. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And 15% probably think you're fit, yeah, and then a few people probably think I think you should go higher. With that one, give yourself some credit. But okay, we're being conservative, we're being conservative, we're being modest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know the thing, I think what I'm trying to say is most people Don't care, won't even notice that you exist Most people are thinking about how ugly they are.
Speaker 1:Ugly they are. Yeah. I always say this thing to people who worry about when they like, worry about themselves and how they come across. You are not the star of everyone else's show when they lay in bed at night. When I lay in bed at night, I'm thinking about the stupid things I've said, the stuff I've got to do. I'm thinking about myself. I'm not thinking about what Sandra from up the road said to me when she took the bins out no, but do you know why people think that?
Speaker 2:it's because if you are, I can't talk for men because I'm not a man. But if you are a woman, I mean, I am getting more and more mask. If you're snoop dog in the house, if you are a woman and if you are a bigger woman, like people men shout things at you Like you know, people say things about you, people look at you, you know, people perceive you in a way. So perhaps you then start to think everybody is thinking this, when really it is only a few dickheads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody is thinking this, when really it is only a few dickheads. Yeah, you get one bad comment or one nut like one look from someone. It can affect you for life, it can derail you completely. Yeah, yeah, what was the word? What was this topic? What we?
Speaker 2:aesthetic surgery changing the way you look. I mean I wouldn't. I don't think I would have any like going under general anaesthetic surgery for the you know, for it Like as much as I'd like bigger boobs. I don't think I would have that done, would you? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just feel like.
Speaker 1:They're not Like Katie Price.
Speaker 2:No, not like Katie Price I. I just like them to be a bit more booby okay, like a, like a lift, yeah um, but I I don't think I'd want it done. I think it would be far too painful and it's a lot of money and I'd rather spend my money on other things. But when it comes to aesthetics, I am here for it because I think it's really affordable. None of it is permanent. Botox lasts three months. Filler can be dissolved.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, so actually, why not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why not?
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying people shouldn't have surgery either Just for me personally, I don't want to spend the money on it or go through the pain of healing.
Speaker 1:And it begs. The next question is so you have the surgery done, your boobs are now bigger. You have your filler done, your lips are now bigger. What's the next thing you're going to find? Because it doesn't end there, no, it doesn't. You're all nine out of ten times you're going to find something wrong with your body, and that's why we see people probably like Katie Price as an example yeah who has more and more and more and more.
Speaker 1:It goes to show it doesn't fix anything. So maybe there's a balance to be had with doing the actual physical acts of having the surgery, having the procedures done. But you've probably got to do a level of mindset work around it as well, because it's not going to fix everything and do the surgeons and the aesthetics people?
Speaker 2:what role do they play? Because I mean grace, who I go to she won't let you have your lips if she thinks you've got enough in there. She won't let you have them done again right, which I think is good. I mean I think if somebody's saying they look they're big enough, you've got lip blindness, I'm not taking any more of your money yeah, fair enough I think that they're coming from a place of ethical yeah, treatments and I. I know you love katie price. We both love katie price.
Speaker 1:I'm a big fan of her. But, she's put her body through a lot. Yeah, she has, and there's obviously much more underneath the surface as to why she does these things. Or maybe there isn't, maybe she genuinely enjoys it.
Speaker 2:Maybe that is a possibility.
Speaker 1:I don't know if she's exasperating the problem, because I'm not sure any more people are looking at her thinking that's what I want, maybe back in the day when she was modeling. Yeah, I mean, she looked very different then, didn't she? She did, but then who are we to comment on other people's? But you know, I mean this is like are we making the thing worse by even mentioning the surgeries she's had?
Speaker 1:maybe maybe it's good to question like check, check yourself, sometimes Be like, okay, do I need to say anything? I love Katie Price, by the way.
Speaker 2:I know. I think she gets a real hard time, I think she does and she's been through it and I think she's a good mum to Harvey. Anyway, moving on from Katie Price, who is affected by body image, Everyone.
Speaker 1:Well, we've discussed women. Yeah, yeah, thanks.
Speaker 2:Well, we've discussed women, yeah, At length. Well, we did a little bit of research, didn't we?
Speaker 1:We Googled a few things, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't tell you the sources because Google's long been closed, but I'll go through the people that are least satisfied with their body and I feel like it's only fair that you say who is most happy with their body. Okay, so the people that are least happy with their body and have lower like satisfaction satisfaction with their body image, whatever women and girls, gay men, bisexual people and some of the happiest lesbians. So let's dissect this. Actually, men didn't really straight men didn't really come into this very much, so I feel like we should talk about them on a separate thing in a bit. But why do we think women, gay men and bisexual people are some of the least satisfied? What's the common denominator there?
Speaker 1:The male gaze. The male gaze Attracting a man, yeah, which is interesting.
Speaker 2:It is interesting because we discovered this last week actually and it was a bit of a like light bulb moment.
Speaker 1:We were like of course, it's the man's fault, of course, oh, we're joking, by the way, don't get upset about that, it's just a bit of fun. It's not men, it's a patriarchy. Yes, no one wins in the patriarchy.
Speaker 2:No, because also Not even a gay man. No, like you know, and really, when we in a moment talk about male body image, I feel like they're not winning either.
Speaker 1:I just think in these You've got to remember like where are these surveys done? How's the research conducted? How many male men are going to be taking part in these surveys in? The first place and then being really honest about how they feel about their body I could.
Speaker 1:I can only assume not many, yeah, so do we have a real insight into what's going on with them and their body image? We can take a few guesses from what we see and observe for sure. I just want to touch on the lesbians being really happy thing, I think that is maybe true to an extent, but within the lesbian community there's quite a lot of toxicity with body types and like expectations of like a mask presenting lesbian and a femme presenting lesbian. See couples on TV they have a certain look about them. Yeah, music videos like queer pop and stuff, they have a certain look about them. So it still exists within that community, but maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess a big thing that has been left out of this research that we found is non-binary people and trans people, because that's a whole different kettle of fish. Kettle of fish, couldn't think of the right word there. Yeah, I was gonna say perspective viewpoint kettle of fish yeah, I don't feel qualified to speak on.
Speaker 2:No, maybe it'd be interesting to have someone on I think it would be interesting to have somebody on talk about that. I think it would be because, actually, as somebody that is neither of those things, I am not qualified to say anything about it no, I think the freedom of a non-binary being a non-being non-binary is you are removing almost those expectations of either man or woman.
Speaker 1:So, like for me personally, I would love to have top surgery one day.
Speaker 1:Okay, like, chop the t's off yeah if I could donate in my world, maybe I'll do it a giveaway, um, and for me I'm not sure if I identify as unbinding or not. I just say I'm just free. But for me it's that kind of like you can be what you want to be. There's no like identifying factors to the female body or to the male body. Yeah, it's that kind of freedom of that expression, without the the being caged in because you've got boobs yeah I can only imagine, like maybe that's an element for a lot of non-binary people.
Speaker 1:Is that just to exist without all that pressure?
Speaker 2:but also I've seen a real thing about, like, some non-binary people who are very feminine or are very masculine, and it's like you don't have to be androgynous, yeah, to be non-binary, like you can still be feminine, you can still be masculine, you can go between the two. So maybe it's like not having it, but also being able to, just not having a label yeah, freeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just be who you want.
Speaker 2:Be who you want, do what you want, say who you want but yeah, maybe we could try and have um a guest who is non-binary, yeah, or trans, and see what they say about it, because, like, yeah, it's. I don't feel like we can say much more on that.
Speaker 1:No. So, men, Men, One of actually our favourite topics on the podcast. We love talking about men, I think they just at my core, they intrigue me. Yeah, I like men. Yeah, my God, we don't.
Speaker 2:We like men, god, yeah, Some more than others, some more than others. Some men I love, some I fucking hate.
Speaker 1:But that's the same with women. It's the same with everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's more someone's vibe, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 1:exactly, but men's body image. I work in a gym, in case you didn't know, guys, so I have seen men obsess over what their body looks like. I see it every day, whether it's them flexing in the mirror, whether it's them talking about their muscle growth to each other, or what they wear to the gym and all these things. They do it as much, I think, more and more, maybe like my age, yeah. And kind of that between that 35 and under seems to be a big thing with guys, cis guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, men want to be manly.
Speaker 1:Men want to be manly but then at the same time my kind of age group. They also want to be sensitive and in touch with stuff.
Speaker 2:Some of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think there's a lot of pressure for them to look a certain way, but also they don't get as much flack if they don't look a certain way because who are they worried is going to judge them?
Speaker 2:other men, other men, because actually I don't okay. So if I hear women describe what they want, they'll often say I want a tall man. They don't ever say I want a man who's ripped with muscles. Short kings, we love you, we love short kings. But the reason I think women want tall men is to make them feel smaller.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very fair. I think I've actually heard someone talk about that uh, like a research thing that was done yeah, because if you're with a tall man, you feel smaller.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I will be your father I mean matthew green is taller than me, but I definitely could hold my own in a fight over him. I'm the protector in this relationship.
Speaker 1:Gendernorm's out the fucking window in this house.
Speaker 2:Honestly. But yeah, I you know a lot of women, I know really like men that are a bit chubby yeah dad bods. Dad bods.
Speaker 1:No one's celebrating the mum bod, no, in the same way they celebrate the dad bod. What was that thing recently?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was Olly Murs, wasn't it? Oh, because he lost too much weight or something. And he's got like really fit and muscly and loads of women were like I preferred him before. Yeah, and then men, who's that horrible PT that I hate? James Smith.
Speaker 1:Potentially yeah, calorie guy, calorie deficit.
Speaker 2:The one who, like, has now got some supplements and stuff.
Speaker 1:James Smith, you had a book, yeah him.
Speaker 2:Him. Okay. So he had a real thing and he was like if this was a man saying that a woman looked better before, you would all be livid with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it happens every single fucking day, single day, literally gone the daily mail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but also what women were saying is he didn't need to change he looked, he looked fine.
Speaker 1:I think again it goes back to. It's not what they're looking like in the mirror. It's what attributes are attributed to a man in shape. Does it make them feel, do they want to be perceived as disciplined in control, successful, um, a protector, a provider, a manly man like? Is it the attribute, is it the characteristics we associate with someone who's in shape that they're after, alongside the approval from other men?
Speaker 2:which is so interesting, because I just do exercise because it makes me feel good, yeah, but I guess some people do go to the gym because they? Well, a lot of people go to the gym, don't they? Because of how it. I don't go to the gym because it makes me look a different way. I just go because of how it makes me feel.
Speaker 1:But I do forget that a lot of people go to the gym because of how it makes them look and I think that's a really interesting point is is separating aesthetic goals from like strength goals in the gym is something on my journey of like self-acceptance and self-love and body neutrality. It took me a long time to to figure that out in my head, because I work out mainly to be strong and feel good, but there are certain things I will do. Body parts I will work because I want them to look bigger and stronger. Now, is that toxic? It's not. I'm not. My mood isn't affected if I'm like don't have like massive shoulders, yeah, or like chunky biceps. But I am actively thinking about that when I'm choosing my exercises, when I'm planning my workouts, because I want to look a certain way. Is that it's hard, isn't it? Maybe I want the approval for men. You heard it here first.
Speaker 2:Oh you have made a big gym daddy to come with me like bloody hell, mate.
Speaker 1:Look at those arms. I actually think I'd be happy forever if that happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just want the approval of men. Oh God, this is what it is. It's happened to you, fuck, anyway. Yeah, aesthetic girls in the gym, you know, are they always because you feel bad about yourself, or do you just want big arms?
Speaker 2:But then what does that mean to have big arms? What does it prove? Is it just because you think they look nice, or is it because it proves something to the world? I don't know. I've never. I don't know because I, I just go to the gym because I like going and I maybe I do feel a little bit smug that I go sometimes, but it's not because of how it makes me look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Something else that's interesting is that I've worked with a lot of like 50-plus women, yeah, and they're like I don't want to get bulky, I don't want to get bulky, I don't want to have muscle. Because they associate that with masculinity and it's not very womanly. Yeah, because they don't want to be perceived as a big masculine bloke by other men.
Speaker 2:But unless they were taking steroids, they're probably not going to get that muscle. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like okay, girl, we'll dial it back a bit. Yeah, sure, we won't Sure Interesting, oh, we're just. We're not coming up with any solutions here, it's all just more problems.
Speaker 2:Astrid has got a lot to say on this. What's up? What do you think she loves herself?
Speaker 1:Astrid does. She doesn't give a fuck, does she? No, I mean those cute pictures you had taken of them. I've actually had you one printed, did you? Yeah, both of them. Yeah, that is going in my office. I'm gonna take all Ziggy's pictures off the wall and just have the girls up. They arrived today. So, oh my god, this is amazing. Yeah, when I miss you, I can look at it. Okay, where are we up to filters?
Speaker 2:and before and after pictures say things that affect people's perception of themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate progress pictures.
Speaker 2:I hate progress pictures and I hate filters.
Speaker 1:I actually really hate filters yeah, I'm not a filters girl because I'm like I don't want anyone to ever meet me in real life and go fucking hell.
Speaker 2:She doesn't like my pictures so when I was bigger, I definitely would put a beauty filter on because I felt like it made me look better. Now I would 100% never want a filter on my picture.
Speaker 1:No, you've got the Botox girl. You don't need it Exactly.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, the thing is, I don't really A lot of those filters blur your skin out, don't they? Yeah, and like I, I mean I used to wear a lot of makeup and now I don't really wear a lot of makeup either, and I'm I would rather people could actually see the texture of my skin, yeah, than me looking like I've used some kind of like auto filter to blur it all out and I'm just like some you can barely see my nose or something like, and I do. I don't know, I guess. Do people still use filters a lot?
Speaker 1:I guess they do I don't know, I'm assuming like photoshop and all that kind of stuff yeah, they probably, they probably do, and it's not even necessarily, just like doing that. It's like the lighting, the angles yeah the poses like no one really looks like what they look like online.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, you do. I always put my best pictures up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I'm not putting the pictures up where.
Speaker 2:I'm like.
Speaker 1:No, but they don't, I think. I don't know anyone who's like 15 and under really, but then I think people who are in their 40s use filters. I think it is maybe a more millennial thing than it is. What is it? Gen Alpha or something, or Gen something at the minute.
Speaker 1:I think Gen Alpha maybe they're, I don't know. They just do this a lot, gen Z. They just put their hand over their face, don't they? Yeah, they've got it really down. They're like and we're just like peace. What else do you do in a photo? Yeah, well, I'd rather be doing that now, when I'm like basically we're doing the peace sign or when I'm 35 and I have to put my hand over my face. I think we've really got it down yeah, anyway, so too they don't help with how you feel about your body, do they?
Speaker 2:no, and I think I I know people because some phones have like beauty filters built into them, do they?
Speaker 2:yeah like android phones, and there's definitely some people that I know and I think that definitely has a filter on it and they're like it doesn't. But I think it's because it's built into the phone, yeah, and it's really hard, isn't it? Because if you take a picture of yourself with a filter and you're like, oh, I look, you know you might think I look great there, and then you look yourself in your mirror and you don't look like that.
Speaker 1:So you're giving yourself this like sense of reality yeah, because that isn't you.
Speaker 2:It's like the dog filter.
Speaker 1:I'm. I never used that, maybe when I was like 15 that's not really a thing anymore, is it? What the fuck you can't tell me you think that, and it's sad actually that people think that picture of them with a dog filter on is better than just their face yeah, do you know, what I think we should do for our instagram is take a picture of ourself with a filter on and a picture of ourself just, naturally, no difference our skin glows.
Speaker 2:Our skin does glow, maybe with the dog filter god, one of us sat down on snapchat. Yeah, not me, I'll do it for the dog filler yeah, I couldn't do that to myself the last sort of thing, before I go through some feedback we've had from some of our listeners, some of the huns, some of the huns, uh is body positivity slash body neutrality well, we touched on body positivity a couple of episodes ago yeah, I mean, I hate body positivity, I think it's turned into something quite toxic, and I also where's the body positivity now there is gone like everyone's like fuck that, give me, give me the pen.
Speaker 1:Yeah give me the zemi yeah which is fine, ain't no judgment here? Do what you got to do to make yourself feel better. This is a shame that we have to do these things to make ourselves feel better. I think that's what we're trying to get at um, but I think body neutrality is like where people should try and like end up yeah and that doesn't mean you feel nothing about your body.
Speaker 1:It means that you stop associating oh my, I feel like you can say like my belly is big, and then that's where it ends and starts it doesn't mean you are lazy, doesn't mean you're ugly. It doesn't mean you're a failure. It's simply acknowledging your body for what it is.
Speaker 1:You know, just describing it for how it looks and trying not to then let that derail you yeah and if you do have a day where you're like, oh, if you'll rank, accepting that for what it is and then still trying to get on with your day in the best way you can, without beating yourself up or going on a crash diet or whatever, whatever you're doing to try and ease that feeling of discomfort yeah, yeah and it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's hard to get to that stage.
Speaker 1:Oh so hard.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's a end point for a lot of people no I think it's an ever changing approach that will be easier some days and harder the others, and also the what you're consuming online in the media is going to have a big effect on how you feel yeah, yeah, I mean, actually I unfollowed somebody the other day and, um, it was an account and they were saying basically like so I mean I'm in a I'm in a weird space now because I have lost weight, I I'm, I'm not, I'm not thin, but I'm smaller than I was, but I feel judged. I feel judged sometimes by people who, by men who like small, petite women Like I would feel judged by them because they would still think I'm fat.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But then I also feel judged by bigger people in the like body positivity movement because I've lost weight. Yeah, so can you ever win? You can't win.
Speaker 1:You can't win, and I think we're going to come across this a lot in our episodes.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I unfollowed somebody because they put a post up about if you ever choose, if you ever lose weight by choice. You're doing that from a fat phobic viewpoint.
Speaker 1:Right, let's just like clarify fat phobia. It's the fear of being fat, to be seen as fat, maybe having bias against fat people and I say fat people, as a neutral descriptor that fat activists would probably choose to use. Yeah right, being fat, being in a larger body, in emotionally, spiritually, feels like it is made hard to exist yes from people being nasty to you to not being able to go on an airplane and fit in the seat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, it's not fair. It shouldn't be that way, but unfortunately it is now. Maybe choosing to lose weight is from a fat phobic like point. Maybe it's a very subconscious, subconscious thing. But also, if, if you, if you want to do it because you want to feel better, yeah, like it's really, it's a really hard line to tread.
Speaker 2:I think well, and the main reason I really had to lose weight is because I started worrying about having a heart attack and having to have a leg chopped off because I had type 2 diabetes.
Speaker 1:I think there's very valid reasons for wanting to stay not wanting to lose weight and living in that bigger body and being really cool with it, and that's fine, that's fine. But to accept that, I feel like you do have to accept the other side of it, which is to lose weight. Which is why you can't say one's okay and one's yuffry, if you're saying people can do what they want with their bodies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why body neutrality to me feels a good place. Yeah, because we shouldn't care what other people are like if somebody chooses to stay bigger.
Speaker 1:If someone chooses to, you know, lose a lot, of, lot of weight, there's nothing to do with me yeah, it's, yeah, exactly, and I do think that fat activist work is super important, yes, and like fat liberation, and I completely am behind all of it. I think actually it filters down and it has done some good things. But you can't. Everyone has lived in a society. If you've been big all your life, you've experienced how fucking awful people can make it for you. Yeah, so you're supposed to sit and suffer in that Some people take it on the chin. They don't care. Yeah, some people can't. They feel like they cannot live like that. Yeah, whether it's not for health reasons but just to have an easier life, or it is for health reasons, but it's not a helpful statement, is it to?
Speaker 1:say that it's not a helpful statement because you shouldn't be adding the people who have been fat and they wanted to lose weight. You, you should be atting the institutions, the society as a whole. You know, that's where I think the energy and effort should be going into is like unraveling these biases and stereotypes and educating people.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Rather than attacking someone who is trying to just make their lives a little bit more bearable and just existing really yeah, but I guess makes good content, doesn't it it does, is trying to just make their lives a little bit more bearable and just existing. Really yeah, but I guess makes good content, doesn't it, does it's very divisive, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, and divisive content wins, gets good engagement yeah, it does, and yeah, it's just a way of the world, isn't it? It would be interesting to maybe do a whole episode like fat liberation, fat activism, um, and maybe talk to someone who's really in that world anything else to say before we move on to some of what the huns have to say well, I think, just around the off, it's really complicated. It's complex, it's very individual and it's something we all have to suffer with sometimes, or experience yeah, and it's, it's awkward yeah there's no uncomfortable is that there's no right answer?
Speaker 2:to get away from it.
Speaker 1:No, it's unfortunately and it's one of those things that, like, I feel like actually lots of the things you say, people can be offended by because it's so personal I think, under underlying all of this, you deserve to be treated with respect, dignity, have equal rights and have a happy life, regardless of what you look like, how big you are, how small you are, what you choose to do with your body, as long as you're not hurting anyone else.
Speaker 2:Everyone deserves that same level of respect yeah that's the message yeah, and as much as people who have poor body image, like those people that do have good body, body image, and like we should celebrate that more rather than being like, oh, look at them yeah thinking, thinking they're it, things like that yeah, I agree, at the end of the day, we haven't got a clue basically, this has just been us talking for how long an hour an hour.
Speaker 1:We've got nowhere with it not really it's just a ramble, yeah but we hope you've had some food before. Right, let's get on to what people have written in okay.
Speaker 2:So somebody has said that they went on a health and fitness journey a few years ago. They've lost a lot of weight. Um, and what they've noticed?
Speaker 1:that people treat them much better now than before, almost as if they are a more valued member of society yeah, and I think goes back to the stereotypes we have against fat people they're lazy, they're rude, they're gluttonous, they don't work hard yeah, they're not disciplined, they're not motivated. Yeah, they are what has been portrayed in the media for so many decades. Yeah, yeah, and like pretty privilege as well. Pretty privilege is a thing. It's a beauty standard, isn't it? It's the Disney princesses. Yeah, exactly, you know pretty privilege.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it is a real thing. Somebody else struggled with being bigger for 35 years and they're only now coming to terms and loving and appreciating all parts of their body. And they're only now, um, coming to terms and loving and appreciating all parts of their body and they're proud of how strong it is and what they can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a really. I think a lot of people end up there because I think we chase and we chase and we chase and a lot of us just well, not everyone but burnout gets tired and think I can't do this anymore yeah and the only way to maybe enjoy life and survive that is to then think is to start appreciating your body and, just you know, fight the good fight rather than wasting energy on something that maybe isn't attainable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because what we're sold is what we should strive for, isn't real and isn't attainable for most people.
Speaker 2:Love your body and then we've got a comment from a male hun. Uh, so he said that he lost 11 stone.
Speaker 1:He lost all of his confidence yeah, interesting, that's really interesting you know, maybe message him back and expand on that. Maybe when we do our episode all about men, we that would be an interesting I wonder why yeah?
Speaker 2:Is it.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe I don't know, I don't know who this guy is. Oh my God, abby, you're right. I've got really bad period pains, crams, another thing, what the fuck.
Speaker 2:We have so much to deal with on a daily.
Speaker 1:So, much, but yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:Because you're always told lose weight, be more confident. Yeah, Maybe it doesn't work for everyone. Somebody else just said it's exhausting and it is exhausting, yeah, Even this conversation.
Speaker 1:I'm like fuck, I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Going round and round and round in circles. I thought this was going to be really easy to talk about, but it's been really hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a lot of our own personal feelings and emotions tangled up in what we're saying and our beliefs as well it has been a quite therapeutic session. Yeah, therapy huns therapy huns.
Speaker 2:And then the final one is somebody who says that they finally found peace with their body again.
Speaker 1:it'd be nice to expand on that. I think, just being like there's some bits I like, there's some bits I like, there's some bits I don't, but I'm not going to let it control every aspect of my being, that's a nice place, I think, to land. Yeah, not expecting perfection, but also not completely shitting on yourself all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So so that's been Body Image. Hope you got something out of it, because we haven't.
Speaker 2:We're more confused than ever.
Speaker 1:But let's talk about our giveaway. How do we enter that?
Speaker 2:it's gonna be on instagram, obviously, um, and we'll put a post up and you need to follow us. Uh, tag your friends like the post, save it, share it on your stories yeah, so share.
Speaker 1:Comment like save. So share comment like save everything. Share, tag your friends in it and like it. Bonus points if you also give us a review on Spotify.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And rate us out of five and give us a five.
Speaker 2:That would be nice. Are we going to do? We said we might do a quick 10 minute minisode on what we learned from our time at the Holcombe 10k. Yeah, we'll record it. Cool now.
Speaker 1:And what are we going to talk about next week? Ableism in the health, in health industry maybe, oh, let's do ableism in the health and fitness industry I'm recording that like we haven't even touched upon people who are disabled or whatever, yeah, and that's a whole. Maybe I don't understand, like I don't have that experience to talk on, but well, one of the huns that's listening uh is my friend scott.
Speaker 2:He'll love it that I've mentioned him. Scott is in a wheelchair right and trained to be a PT Cool, cool, cool and is not pursuing that at the moment. But I have spoken to him a little bit in that in the past and I'll get a few views from him and see if anyone else has anything else to say. And I guess ableism, as well as being a physical thing, could be like a mental health.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool. So ableism in the health and wellness and fitness industry is next week's podcast episode. Ooh, I'm going to have to do some research for that, because I have no idea, because I am ignorant and I don't want to be anymore.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, if you made it this far, well done. Don't forget to enter our giveaway. Watch out for the posts. Yeah, like share, subscribe, download, review. We appreciate any interaction, yep, and we will see you next week. Bye.