The Health Huns

EP.28 Fitness and the patriarchy

• Rhiannon Riley-Tims and Amber Green

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Ever walked into a gym and felt the room decide whether you belong there? We start with the everyday stuff — cold runs, reluctant 10k sign-ups, the bravery of showing up alone — and then pull the camera back to show the bigger picture shaping those moments. Patriarchy still sets the tone in too many fitness spaces, from the stare you pretend not to notice to the route you won’t run after dark. That quiet vigilance isn’t paranoia; it’s a tax on focus, joy and consistency.

We talk about how safety dictates training windows in winter, why women gravitate to women-only gyms, and how progress accelerates when a space feels truly welcoming. There’s some good news: mainstream messaging for women is inching toward strength and performance over shrinking. But there’s also the marketing machine that weaponises insecurity. Think TRT ads flooding feeds while women battle for HRT, pink-taxed leggings and “glow” supplements, and sports bras that look great but fail at actual support. Design and pricing are not neutral; they decide who gets comfort, who gets value, and who gets to train without second-guessing their outfit.

We also trace how men’s social conditioning bleeds into fitness culture — the pressure to be big and emotionless, the policing of femininity, and why some “awareness” content misses the mark. Change needs education, empathy and better environments, not just viral posts. Along the way, we swap practical ideas: training with friends for night runs, choosing gyms that fit your needs, sharing ETAs, and seeking kit that prioritises function for different bodies, including masc and trans lifters who are underserved by current fits.

If this conversation resonates, help us keep it going: follow the show, share this episode with a friend who trains, and leave a review with one thing you want to see change in fitness culture. Your thoughts shape what we tackle next.

Thank you for listening!

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SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome to the Health Huns, the pod where we discuss the messy side of health and fitness.

SPEAKER_03:

From gym fails to newfound communities.

SPEAKER_00:

We're here to help you feel like less of a failure and find your place in the messy world of health and fitness. Hello and welcome to the Health Huns.

SPEAKER_03:

My name is Ree.

SPEAKER_00:

And I am Amber.

SPEAKER_03:

And together we are mediocre. So if you're new here, we are two everyday people, amateur athletes, really, technically. Talking about the messy world of health and fitness and not sugarcoating anything.

SPEAKER_00:

Just our own personal views and opinions on what this world is like.

SPEAKER_03:

Pulling back the veil. Is that the right thing?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and how we've experienced it.

SPEAKER_03:

And what we would like to see more of and less of in the world of health and fitness.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

So episode 27 today. And I feel like this one's pretty much summarizing everything we ever talk about ever.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

In some respects.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And who's to really blame?

SPEAKER_00:

We all know who is to blame.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, we'll leave you guessing for a little while longer because first, Amber, how's your week been?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh my week's been pretty good actually. I it's been cold. So cold. Um but it's been alright. I'd say a solid 7 out of 10. I've been busy but not too busy. I've been to the gym. I did a run, which I hated, but I did it. I've signed up to another 10k, which I said I would never do again.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, why did you do that? Why were you summoned? Was it peer pressure?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Did you get a choice?

SPEAKER_00:

No. Then I peer pressured Shannon into signing up.

SPEAKER_03:

Shannon Maloney Mahoney?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And you need to sign up as well if you want.

SPEAKER_03:

When is it?

SPEAKER_00:

March the first.

SPEAKER_03:

And then you're doing the Apex Games on the 4th. 14th. Like the 14th, yeah. Yeah. I'm an athlete. Yeah. I just know as soon as I commit to something, I just don't want to train.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, do you know what? I am feeling very much at the moment.

SPEAKER_03:

Right now, you are.

SPEAKER_00:

I still will be then.

SPEAKER_03:

It's only three months away. It's not that long, really, at all.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Exactly. And I feel like for once in my life, because it's the winter, it's hard to train because it's hard to train outside. However, it's not like I can blame it being too hot.

SPEAKER_03:

No, but you did say to me it's too cold to go for a run the other day.

SPEAKER_00:

But I've got my little like fleecy head ear warmer thing. I've got gloves. I think if I'm gonna go for an outside run, I just need to layer up, but not too much.

SPEAKER_03:

No. The thing is, the first 10 minutes of a winter run is awful. Like it hurts to breathe, like everything's cold. But as soon as you get past that first kilometre, you're sweating, you're warm.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I started running this time last year and I didn't hate it. So I just need to deal with the cold, like that initial cold, and remember to put my gloves on, remember my little ear thing, and like wear a couple of thin layers, and then I'll be good to go.

SPEAKER_03:

Nice. So you've got a lot of events coming up that you're training for at the minute.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, next year. I think I've got lipstick on my chin.

SPEAKER_03:

You were brave as well this week. You went to the new gym you signed up to on your own.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

The first one?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I went on a Saturday night a few weeks ago, but this was like daytime. Yeah. So it was almost a bit scarier because I knew there was gonna be people there and lots because it's like a gym that has a lot of PTs. So I knew there was gonna be PTs, I knew there'd be people that they don't necessarily know me, but they've obviously seen me there with you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And that was probably that probably would be the first time they'd seen me on my own, and I was a bit like, oh, but it was fine. It was fine. I had a good time.

SPEAKER_03:

If Amber can do it, so can you.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that's good. My week has been just again, I don't know, it goes so far, it's been cold. Um, I've been on it with my content. I feel like I've been posting a lot of content recently. You have. Um, shameless plug if you want to go see that content. R R T underscore coaching for the 25 people who listen regularly, you probably follow me anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

It's worth watching.

SPEAKER_03:

And not all of it has been first traps. Some of it's been really deep and emotional.

SPEAKER_00:

It has been, yeah. And it's been helpful and useful to lots of people, I'm sure. What did you do today? What you would do if you were a new person in the gym wanting to build muscle.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's what I did yesterday. See? It's memorable, obviously. Because I've forgotten. But yeah, things have been good. I've been training really, really hard, and I'm actually starting to notice like actual muscle change. I think this I like I can't remember the last time I was this consistent in the gym and enjoying it, and it's really it's starting to really pay off.

SPEAKER_00:

Um why do you think you're enjoying it?

SPEAKER_03:

I think there's a little bit of accountability because I'm sharing my journey, like the fitter, faster, stronger stuff, even though I haven't done an update for a while. Um, and I feel like it's just so euphoric for me at the minute and affirming, and I'm just enjoying the process of it. And I don't know, maybe it's just, you know, Ziggy's getting older now, so it's not much of a balancing act, like it's easier to kind of fit in time and whatever. I think my life has just kind of settled really nicely at the minute with everything, and I've just got the time and the energy and the want. All the stars have aligned, which I think people sometimes the stars will align for you, and you'll make really like good progress in like six months or something, but it's not always like that, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00:

But when the stars do align, you just grab it by the horns.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, by the horns. So, yeah, I've had about an eight out of ten week.

SPEAKER_04:

That's good.

SPEAKER_03:

Brilliant. So, three guesses what we're talking about today. Yes, you're right. The patriarchy in fitness.

SPEAKER_00:

That is the issue.

SPEAKER_03:

We were worried this would be a bit too heavy and deep for an episode, but uh, like I said, we we address this topic every single week.

SPEAKER_00:

Time and time again.

SPEAKER_03:

They keep popping their ugly heads up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Interestingly, do you know what today is?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh Transgender Remembrance Day? Day of Remembrance?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it is that. That is not, I've got the dates wrong. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it was International Man's Men's Day yesterday.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, it was like the 17th or the 19th, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

It was recently.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But don't doesn't it make you laugh that like on International Women's Day, men are like, what about men? But nobody shares anything on International Men's Day because they don't actually care. They just want to make it about them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And I I saw a post, I saw one post, and it was celebrating like um modern fatherhood and men's mental health and um undoing toxic masculinity. Like it was a very positive post. It wasn't about celebrating men just being men, it was like helpful things that you know, because men are victims of the patriarchy too.

SPEAKER_00:

Men are victims of the patriarchy, like uh, you know, and it doesn't have to be this way, and like we always say, it's not all men, but it is always linked back to a man slash the patriarchy. But there are lots of great men out there who actually are changing things and are moving away from toxic masculinity, like bro culture, all of those things, and are you know trying to support other men, bring up their children in a different way, etc. etc. Like it is time for change.

SPEAKER_03:

It is time for change, you're right. So I think let's start where I think we've all experienced some sort of uncomfortableness in the presence of men, and that is the gym or an exercise environment, a fitness environment, a sports environment, even you can even talk about going to like a sports match. Um, but stepping inside a gym, and you said outside running, is uh often a very male-dominated space, and uh that can lead a lot of women, queer folk, or anyone who just doesn't even fit into like a manly man feeling very intimidated in those spaces. Yeah, which is an issue now. Personally, from my point of view, one I guess it's because I work in a gym, but like I don't feel that intimidated by men in those spaces because I'm they're not looking at me in that way, because I'm not their type, unless they're into other men. So my experience of those places as I am now is on a whole positive because I just go in and get it done, I don't feel uncomfortable, like I'm probably outlifting them anyway. Now, how have your experiences been recently?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's interesting because at the minute I don't care and I'm quite oblivious because I am just really good at being in my own world and focusing on what I'm doing. Um but I do notice like depending on what I'm wearing, men stare at me a lot. Now, I think part of it is because I've got a lot of tattoos. And I know a lot of people have a lot of tattoos, but mine are quite brightly coloured and they're quite big, and like I'd sort like if I'm wearing like a vest and shorts, like you know, I do have them sort of everywhere you can see. So part of me is like, give them the benefit of the doubt, like you shouldn't be looking at me, but like maybe you're just looking at my tattoos. I don't know. Um, but that like because like you're second guessing like what they are actually looking at. Like, are they looking at me in like a derogatory way? Is it they're looking at my tattoos? Is it that they're gonna try and come over and mansplain something to me? Do they think I should not be in this space? Like, there's so many things that go through your mind that actually it can really like put you off what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's hard to I th there's a reason, even if they haven't done anything directly to you, there's a reason that we are wary of them. Like they have not specifically anyone in general, but as a whole, they have given us reason to be cautious of them, to think all these things and consider all these possibilities that why they're looking at me, what are they thinking? Because we have had to had our have our guard up so often, probably in the past, because of the behaviour elsewhere, that you know, it's kind of guilty until proven innocent oftentimes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I mean, so the new gym that I go to is a 24-hour gym, and it's not manned in the evenings, and it is like on an industrial estate, and like I when I first went on my own, it was a Saturday evening and it was about seven o'clock, and like you know, it was fine. There was like two or three other men in there. Not that I'm a man, but there were two or three men in there, and um like I I don't know if they were like being super conscious, but it was like nobody made eye contact with me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So, like, that was actually okay. It's like I'm you know, I am not looking at you. I'm not gonna make eye contact, I'm not gonna do anything weird. Um, but you know, somebody did say to me the other day, like, would you not be worried they're going on your own at night? And I was like, Well, I mean, depending on what time it was, then yeah, maybe, you know, maybe not even just like being in the gym, like walking from my car, which is to the door.

SPEAKER_03:

Um there are cameras everywhere in there, don't worry. Every nook of it.

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't imagine they would.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. But that doesn't stop something happening, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it doesn't. Um and yeah, I like I you do always think about these things, but also, you know, I people know where I'm going, um, people know when I'm expecting to come home, all of those kind of things. So if anything did happen, like I guess as a woman, you you have to like warn people what you're doing just in case.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and no, sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I was gonna say, like, I almost feel like I've had a better experience in the gym than I have running.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because, you know, and it's never people that are the runners, it's just old men that see you running that make comments. Like, and they're not even necessarily like they think they're being funny. Like, you know, I remember we did the Gate 5K Wednesday run once, and the old route in the summer you ran through like Riverside. There's a bit by the is it the Novi Sad, Novi Sad Bridge, by the White Bridge, um, this sort of gatey bit, and like I was with Jenny and Sarah Gamble, and I this I think I was first to go through, and this man went, come on, hurry up, and I was just like, Fuck you! Like, how dare you? Like, we were there first, we were coming through. Obviously, you're not sprinting through a bloody gate, are you? Because you've got to go around it. It made me so angry, and like when we used to run up Marriott's way, you'd often see like these middle-aged, older men. Come on, love! Yeah, the entitlement men do they, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's got nothing to do with fitness, that's just people who are entitled to have think they have need to have an opinion or say something.

SPEAKER_00:

It's affecting you when you are trying to do your fitness, like you know, you you should be able as a man, men just go out and go for a run, and I see men of you know all different sizes, speeds, abilities, and they're just out there doing their run without a care in the world. Yeah. And as a woman, you cannot do that.

SPEAKER_03:

No, like because even if you did and you took precautions, and God forbid something happened to you, you know for a fact there'll be people saying, Well, why did she think it was okay to go for a run at six o'clock at night when it's dark? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

It's like six o'clock is not late.

SPEAKER_03:

No, and also that's not our fault that there's predators out.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_03:

We it's like in the winter, if you're a woman and you are your time to exercise, like if you're a runner, is cut drastically to the daylight hours, which is what, like three hours a day sometimes it feels like.

SPEAKER_00:

Or you have to run on a treadmill, which is so boring.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so our opportunities to partake in fitness and exercise is impacted during the winter months if you live in a country like ours.

SPEAKER_00:

And do you know what? I actually did go for a run at night last week. But I went with Lauren and Sophie, and I obviously wouldn't have done it on my own. And we went to Eaton Park and we had Matthew's head torches because there were three of us, and actually, although Eaton Park was dark and I wouldn't have done it on my own, there was like um people playing tennis, there was something else going on there. Like there were people there still, yeah, even you would not have done it on your own because it was dark and scary, but it was really nice, like being out running at night. But as a woman, I can only do that if I'm with at least two other people.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's just not fair, really, is it?

SPEAKER_00:

It's not fair, it's not fair. One thing I have noticed recently is um on Instagram, like other running accounts, like male running accounts, have been making videos about women running in the dark trying to raise awareness. And part of me is very not conflicted, but I'm like, do you actually care, or are you just making this because you know people will share it and it's good for your engagement?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Sorry, I'm suspicious because I don't trust men. Um, but part of me is like, well, actually, you know, the change does need to come from men. So if this influences one other man or makes another man think about what he's doing, then it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Unfortunately, I just don't think it works like that. I don't, I don't like this. Isn't do you really think someone who is out to hurt a woman or any other human being post, do they? No, they're not gonna give a shit what this other bloke's saying. No. That's what where I think the biggest sticking point of all this stuff we're talking about and are gonna talk about, how do you improve this situation? That's the question because men have been committing violent acts against women for hundreds and hundreds of years.

SPEAKER_00:

Thousands.

SPEAKER_03:

So what is a solution to this? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't think there is a solution, sadly. I do I think some men's brains, yes, they are influenced from things that they observe the experience in early life, like, but I do think inherently men's brains are different. And like, you know, if you think about, I'm going way off track from health and fitness now. Oh well. If you think about wars, it's always men starting the wars, leading wars, you know, it's men that want to go into the army and fight for their countries, yeah. Like, you know, 99% of gun crime is committed by men, like the multi-shootings, they're nearly all men, like women, serial killers, not all, you know, almost always men, and I'm not saying never women because there are women, but it is nearly always men. So, how do you change something inside of them? Because I don't even think that some of them think that what they're doing is wrong. And it's not, it's not even always the men like actually someone being assaulted or attacked is a I'm not saying it's small, but it's a small, you know, sometimes it's just like the intimidation and the feelings that are given that make you feel like things like that are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I would say it's like, you know, probably 80% that kind of behaviour and 20% actually something happening.

SPEAKER_03:

But the intimidation and like just having someone shout at you when you're doing something, you know, okay, it's not gonna leave a physical wound or whatever, but it can lead you to stop living a life.

SPEAKER_00:

Or it could stop you going doing the things that you want to do.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so I think both are probably just as damaging in their own ways.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. What I'm saying is it's you know, yes, people might say, oh, well, you know, how many people actually, but it's not just the fact that that can happen. It's the like intimidation, the harassment, the like you know, being belittled, the mansplaining, all of those things, like microaggressions, yeah, things like that. Like they are as bad.

SPEAKER_03:

Quite depressing, really, this episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Let's move swiftly on to some messages that we see that are very gender. Marketing messages. I think it is slowly changing in the world of fitness. Like there's a massive shift in the way women are spoken to, I think, in health and fitness. It is a lot about getting stronger, empowering yourself. You don't have to do it just to be as small as possible, um, focusing more on the weights you're lifting rather than weights on the scale. Like, I've seen so much more of that messaging now.

SPEAKER_00:

I do think it is definitely changing, but it has been a recent change.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That 50-60 years ago, women weren't allowed to run a marathon because men basically thought they couldn't, and their uteruses might fall out.

SPEAKER_03:

Is that the reason? Yeah. They were not concerned about the women's uteruses.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, they weren't, were they? This is our sport.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they're not very good at sharing, are they?

unknown:

No.

SPEAKER_03:

But I think the messaging that is, you know, pushed at young men and men, just men, can be really damaging as well. Like, I'm not saying like, oh, let's feel sorry for all the men, because I don't.

SPEAKER_00:

Men are affected by the patriarchy.

SPEAKER_03:

They are. Like, I have a son and he's gonna grow up to be maybe a man. And I don't the thought of him feeling like shit about his body, or he needs to be big and muscular, and if he's not that, he's not a real man. Like, I don't want him feeling shit, or like he has to act a certain way to be a many man. In some ways, I do think women have a lot more freedom in how they express themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

I would agree.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I think you know, as um someone who presents more masculine, that isn't really nearly as judged as I imagine a man who prevents presents a lot more feminine is.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I would say so as well.

SPEAKER_03:

But then now go on.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh well, even for people Yeah, well, yeah, that is sort of what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. But then is that because there's a hatred of femininity?

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's just ingrained, and it's not the fact that it's not someone being gay or whatever, it's like the fact that men hate women innately, and any sort of femininity is just not okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I think I always think this is an interesting situation. So if you've got a bisexual woman and a bisexual man, people will always say, Oh, the woman is just putting it on or she's greedy, and if it's like she doesn't mean it, and if it's a man, they're like, he's gay.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's like, how can you not want to be of a man?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Because they're fucking gross. That's fine.

SPEAKER_00:

No, yeah, I yeah. Um but yeah, maybe. I I mean I do think, I do think men, and also I think men really miss out. Like, as a woman, I have way more I probably pay more money for them, which we'll get on to later. I have way more choices of clothes, like the colours of the women's trainers are more fun, like all of the men's stuff is just black. It's not as fun. They miss out.

SPEAKER_03:

I they do, and I do think that's actually a big part of their problem, is they feel repressed. Yeah. Because some of the happiest men I know are the ones that are free. They are they are secure in their masculinity, they they and because of that, they then have more freedom to express who they are and their you know, individuality, and they're a bit more experimental with how they look and the clothes they wear, and they're just not assholes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And other men are really intimidated by that.

SPEAKER_03:

Really intimidated by that. Because it's obviously something probably deep down in a lot of them that is waiting to be free from like a young, like from little being little kids, girls have all this freedom to like dress up and roleplay and you know, make these deep connections and friendships and have emotional um well connections of other people, and I just think men from a young age do miss out on a lot of that, and maybe that's why they're so angry all the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Just give your friend a hug and a kiss and be done with it.

SPEAKER_00:

I read something yesterday, and it was like, oh, somebody shared it on Instagram, and it was like, it, you know, it takes eight minutes to make somebody feel less lonely or something. And it's like, if you just have to, you know, give your friend eight minutes, and it was like it was between a man and a woman, and like the woman had basically said that I don't know, she needed support or something, and she was like, I texted you ages ago. And this man was like, I flicked through my messages, and I was like, Well, yeah, you said, Hey, how are you? Like you do every time, and she was like, Well, I actually and he was they came to the decision that if they needed support, they'd say, Have you got eight minutes? Oh, but I mean men do struggle with asking for help, making connections, all of these things. I feel like we've veered far off the topic now.

SPEAKER_03:

Of health and fitness, yeah. Well, it's hard because it's so interlinked, like you can't look at it in a vacuum. There are the reason it is prevalent within health and fitness, like toxic vaccinity, is because of the patriarchy and because of all these reasons, like they're not one and of itself. So we are actually just doing really thorough research and discussions. But I think some marketing mess, yeah, I it's hard because are we seeing things that are just in our echo chamber because of how the algorithm works?

SPEAKER_00:

Probably, probably, and I think that is the issue with social media. I mean, as our listeners know, we hate male fitness coaches that claim to be experts in women's health. They can get in the bin.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like you don't understand. You might have read a textbook or read some things online, but you will never understand like what women go through. And I feel like that is a real because they know women hate, dislike, want to change their bodies, all of those things. Women are vulnerable around their bodies, so to Say, I'm an online fitness coach. I specialise in women's health. Like women will be like, oh well, I might choose him over somebody that doesn't specialise in women's health. But all he's done is read a few articles or seen some stuff on TikTok. Yeah, yeah. So that is that's I feel like that's a real big market employee from men to take advantage of women.

SPEAKER_03:

I've actually got fitness weaponizers insecurities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Big time. I do get a lot of like women's like be strong, build your muscles. You can I mean I think that like you say, I I probably am in a bit of an echo chamber. Um but then I see things like men over 30 can't lose that 20 kilos you want to lose. Come to me. Like, and it's very like, bro, yeah, men, I'll help, you know, like I don't know. Like it just it does a lot of it does seem very gendered.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you know what I've seen a massive push recently? Um, is testosterone for men like TRT? Yeah, and I and I'm just like, hold on a fucking minute. How has that become so easily accessible? I know you've always had steroids, but this is the last six months. But women are still fighting at their GP for HRT.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Or I know it's the same hormone replacement therapy, but for the stuff we need as you go through the menopause and stuff. And I'm like, how has how has this happened? How has that happened first? Because men are making men. It's just insane. And it's like, it's like, oh yeah, of course men need it. Like, oh, we don't want them feeling tired, we don't want them losing their hair, we don't want them having a limp dick. We we must we must sort this problem out for them. Women literally kill themselves, yeah, but due to the menopause and the symptoms that affect them. Like, why can't we not just go and find what we need when we need it?

SPEAKER_02:

Fucking hell.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I am the age where like, you know, most of my friends, I mean, most a lot of my friends are a bit younger, but they're sort of like heading into perimenopause. I would, you know, I'm I'm kind of lucky in some response in response, in respects, because I don't I do have some symptoms of perimenopause. And I'm, you know, I'm 44 next year, so the likelihood is I am. Um, but I went to the doctors last year, and I sort of started having symptoms around 37, and quite a lot of time has passed since then, and um my symptoms were more severe back then because I had really heavy, bad, painful, awful periods. Um, and now I hardly have, I mean, I do have them, but then they're on the other end of the scale. But I went to the doctors last year and I said, I think I'm in perimenopause. It was a female doctor, and she was like, Okay, uh, well, you can't have the, we'll have to do a blood test, which everybody says is bullshit. Um, and it is just not accurate because of where you they do it and where you are in your cycle. I was on the combined pill, so it had estrogen in it. Um, so I had to come off that for three months. They put me on another pill which I just couldn't get on with, so I just stopped taking it. And um I had the blood test. The doctor surgery never contacted me again. It wasn't like it's come back normal, it was just radio silence. Um, but you know, no, like, oh well, let's talk about your symptoms or blah blah blah. And I recently got access to all of like my online stuff because I just hadn't approved it with the doctor surgery in the app, and I put the results into ChatGPT, which is really helpful because it actually explains things in quite simple terms, and uh it was like, yeah, your results are normal, but it depends when you have it done in your cycle, yada yada yada. But I can't be bothered to go back to the doctors to fight for it again. Yeah. If I in when I when you're 45, I think they do, you say it, they just I think they're much they will much easier give it to you. Why not now? I mean, the reason I'm kind of like and actually my mum said to me you should probably go on HRT because it keeps your bones strong, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

It keeps lots of things at bay and easier for you. Um but it's also another another barrier to fitness in a in a sense. If we can't get the health care we need to help us function at our best, the last thing I imagine, like I can only compare it to having like a bad period or whatever, and like the symptoms you get before and after and during like the last thing I want to do sometimes is go to the gym and work out. And if you're feeling like that constantly, your period's all over the place, really, really heavy, whatever, whatever, you're your mood's really low, you're not gonna want to go and work out at the gym.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's sleeping, you know, it's like brain fog, yeah, exactly. Tiredness, you know, things like itchy skin ringing in your ears. None of those things make you want to go to the gym. Like the list of like symptoms are mad.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, if you're a bloke at pretty much whatever age, I think, and you've got low testosterone, you go and get some testosterone from the doctors, yeah, have your own HRT, and you're back up, and everyone's like, Oh my god, I'm so happy for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it's like recently, where is James Smith has invested or started a business to do with it?

SPEAKER_03:

I've seen and the men that are advertising this that I've seen are some of the most toxic assholy men that I've seen online and they're all backing it. And I don't think there's a problem with men getting the healthcare they need. I just think why the fuck aren't we getting that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you look at like, you know, women's health and fit, you know, women's health within the fitness world, like do we even know really much about how women's bodies work compared to men? Because the majority of the tests and the studies have been carried out on men.

SPEAKER_03:

Going back to the marketing, and this just reminded why it reminds me, but Monster Energy are bringing out a female energy drink, so it's all like pastel colours, it's all pretty and stuff like that. I don't know. I don't know if there's like a skew in the data where women aren't buying it because of how the cans look. Maybe they look too manly or what? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe maybe they're gonna make the cans smaller for our delicate hands.

SPEAKER_03:

No, the cans are smaller.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, so we get less of it, but it will probably for more. Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03:

Which brings us nicely on to the pink tax.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Which I'll leave that with you because you know more about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the pink tax is basically where things for women that are exactly the same as they are for men cost more for women. Yeah. And you know, even down to so there was a big I saw something recently, and it was boots, skincare. And there was like boots have like a women's range of skincare and a men's range of skincare, and they have like a hyaluronic acid, and the women's one is in a pink bottle, like a pink box, and the men's one is in like a white box with black branding with whatever. Tigers are yeah, and the men's one has more in it, and it costs less money, and it's exactly the same product. And like, I mean, I was looking online, I don't know exactly how accurate this this is, but it was saying that like women's leggings predominantly cost 10 to 15 pounds more than men's like running tights on average. Um supplements that are aimed at women, menopause, hair, skin, magnesium, collagen, makes you younger, blah, blah, blah. If they're aimed at women, they come with like an uplifting price because women will pay that and buy it. Because the patriarchy has told them how ugly they are.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We will do everything we can to, you know, fit into society's moulds. And I say we because you know, you and I are not exactly running out buying supplements other than creatine. Um, but people will, you know, I have clients that spend£100 a month on supplements, and I'm like, you don't even know what's working.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, I I even think things like I this is away from health fitness, but I don't care. Um getting your nails done, getting your eyebrows done, having your hair touched up, eyelashes, um, facials, like all these things. I I'm all for getting those things done if that is good for you and that makes you feel good, but where are all those things from men, like the equivalents?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

They're really what do they do?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I don't know, men do get their hair done a lot.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you know what I mean though? Like, there's so much upkeep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And like things like Botox, fillers, I am here for it, as you know. Me too. 90 90% of those people getting that done are gonna be, I would imagine, women. Yeah. Why don't why, but then why is it like as men get older, they become a silver fox, distinguished? Like, oh, he's aging like a fine wine and women. It's like if you have grey hair as a woman, you're not silver fox. You've let's you're an old hag. Yeah, you let yourself go. Yeah, you know, oh, she, you know, like oh, she's looking rough, things like that. Like, why is it that we praise men for getting well, we spoke about this before, but men are praised for getting older, and women are told they should look younger.

SPEAKER_03:

Because the narratives of society, the media, the press are all determined and dictated by men.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It's hailing, sleeting.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, it's not doing anything here.

SPEAKER_03:

Yet. We are. Um, I think that kind of segues really not. Oh, sorry, what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00:

This has made me very angry.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it's just stuff we have to deal with and uh live with every single day, and we are unfortunately relatively powerless in making any real massive change. You can focus on like your immediate and try and make change within like your own immediate community, family, friends, whatever, but on a larger scale, I don't feel like we have any real power to make any real change because ultimately who's at the top deciding what changes get made?

SPEAKER_00:

Men, men, but also you know, men don't listen to other men, no, really listen to anybody, you know. Yes, I think men should call out bad behaviour in other men if they see it, but I don't think it actually makes any difference. No, so unfortunately, I don't, you know, I don't see what the solution is because lock them up. Well, I always say to one of my clients at least, men should start in prison.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And they should only be allowed out once they've passed, you know, like the citizen exam that people who emigrate immigrate, emigrate, whatever, and want to live in the UK after so long. There should be one of them for men, and they should only be allowed out in the world once they've passed it.

SPEAKER_03:

I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

And they should have regular checkups.

SPEAKER_03:

I think there should be more like things in education and boys should be taken off and they should be taught all these things.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I mean they are supposed to be taught some things, you know, there's a there's a big thing around like consent being taught, but I think consent is so much more than just whether someone says yes or no when it comes to sex. Yeah. Then is so much more, and I don't think people do enough on that parents, teachers.

SPEAKER_03:

No, it's just having respect, isn't it? I think massively lacking respect and empathy and emotional depth and understanding. Like, is that because they don't need that to navigate the world because they have so much privilege that they've never had to build those muscles, unlike someone who we have to be understanding, like as a women, we have you know, we have to be kind and we have to be polite, and because otherwise we don't get anywhere. Whereas men can turn up, swing their dick, and they're CEO of a company.

SPEAKER_00:

It would be really interesting to like really get into the brain of one of their men and like what they actually genuinely think and believe. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure some of them are you know absolutely rotten to the core. But it would be really interesting to know if some of them it is performative because that is what they think makes them manly and what they should do.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I hope I never have to see inside a man's brain. Dark, cold, desolate place. I think they will be. Let's get on to the male gaze and health and fitness. Now I have a theory on this, and I might upset some people, but I apologize in advance.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Actually, maybe I don't care. Um I think a lot of the women's gym outfits are purely designed to appease the male gaze because I've worn some back in my day, I have worn those outfits and they are not comfortable. So I don't I just think like, are you actually comfortable in those clothes whilst you're working out? Or is it your only option?

SPEAKER_00:

I couldn't tell you because I don't think I all so I always think, how are women working out in those tiny Gymshark sports bras?

SPEAKER_03:

And shorts.

SPEAKER_00:

The short shorts well, yeah, like I I'm sorry, they must like they must be giving you a bit of a wedgie. Like I like a cycling short, but my do come down my thigh. Um but I mean, I am somebody that does not have big boobs, and I could not wear one of those sports bras. Let me just I'm gonna find one because I was looking on the Gym Shark sale the other day, and I wanna I don't want to shit on what make on what people wear to make them feel good in the gym.

SPEAKER_03:

Like if that makes you feel amazing, you're 10 out of 10, like that's fine. But I think if looking at the designs of a lot of gym wear for women, lots of it, I just think it's only practical if you are a certain shape and size, which then kind of lends the idea that fitness brands only want to be working with people of a certain shape and size. What the fuck is everyone else supposed to wear if you've got the major gym sharp, all those things?

SPEAKER_00:

Right, this is a sports bra. Oh, for fuck's sake.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, my nipples are out either side. I mean I like that.

SPEAKER_00:

She looks great, don't get me wrong, but I do not think that's a sports bra. No, but like you say, I it women can wear whatever they want to wear if it makes them feel empowered, but why is it making them feel empowered?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because you best bet I'm wearing not that. I'm dressing for the girls, I'm dressing for the female gays. I I never dress for the male gaze. Yeah, I couldn't give two flying fucks about if I'm not comfortable in something, I'm not wearing it.

SPEAKER_00:

I like I would just constantly I'd be like this, pulling it over. Like, I I mean, I obviously am not that shape and size as that woman. Maybe if I was like that, I would. I don't know, but like I wouldn't feel comfortable. Um I guess in some ways, maybe you know, if it makes you feel empowered to, you know, have some validation from men, fine. If that's you know, why you're doing it and what you want from it. Um I don't know. It's not comfortable to me.

SPEAKER_03:

But then why aren't why can't men why am I not seeing three-inch shorts for men? Do you know what I mean? Why am I not seeing your upper upper thigh?

SPEAKER_00:

Um I mean I guess you are in some like high rocks competitions.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but but why why are women wearing why is that sold to women as a comfortable thing to wear? But like, why aren't why isn't that comfortable for men then? I'm not saying as tight because I know they have certain things they need to hold in place, but I want to see three inch shorts on a man. You know, why isn't that comfortable for them?

SPEAKER_00:

Because that's it's not practical, that's why. And it wouldn't be manly, it would be too feminine for them.

SPEAKER_03:

But I think men dress for men in the gym.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I'm just trying to think about what I've seen men wearing in the gym recently. Well, they're not dressing for the w the female gays.

SPEAKER_03:

No in their jeans and their their work trousers.

SPEAKER_00:

I've seen quite a lot of men wearing like um like vests that are cut off with like long open sides showing off their obliques. Yeah. They very they rarely wear shorts. I feel what do men wear in the gym? Because jogging bottoms are too hot. So what are they wearing?

SPEAKER_03:

Jogging bottoms or just normal shorts and t-shirt, like nothing spectacular.

SPEAKER_00:

I have to say, you quite often see runners, male runners, in short shorts.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's really quite true. But then that's a purpose, that's a design to to make running more comfortable, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It's a practical design.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I mean, I guess if you think about it, running is the kind of men that are running are often have a very different physique to those like big, bulky men. Maybe they just don't make shorts big enough for these men. Because their thighs are too big.

SPEAKER_03:

I really want to um when I'm rich, I'm gonna invest in a gym clothing apparel thing for like mask people and trans people where because I can't I I literally struggle to find any gym clothes that I like and that fit me.

SPEAKER_00:

What would you like from gym clothes?

SPEAKER_03:

I just want them not I want the man, the men's design in a size that fits my short body because that everything's way too long or way too baggy or not or too tight round the chest, and there's no there's no one out there making clothes. There must be a big proportion of people who go to the gym who are like me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So why aren't we hated for?

SPEAKER_00:

I've had enough.

SPEAKER_03:

That's my uh 2027 goal.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Do you think we're gonna get a lot of hate for this episode?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I don't think any men listen to us, so probably not, no.

SPEAKER_00:

True.

SPEAKER_03:

I really don't care either. Because everything we're saying is true.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you know, really, I feel like men should be able to accept that. Because if you are a decent normal man, you would know that you're not part of the problem.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so you wouldn't get offended, you wouldn't feel like you're being attacked.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I feel like we've said a lot but not said much at all, because it it's just the same things over and over again, ultimately.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And there's a reason, I said this in the previous episode. There's a reason women want women-only gyms and men aren't bothered. Like, surely that in itself is a big enough kind of alarm bell to say like something needs to change.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think there's been an even bigger rise in women's only gym over the last kind of decade or so. I've seen so many women's only this, women's only that. Like, we are sick, I think, to the back teeth of having to alter, change, be wary, be cautious in these environments because men can't control themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So we have no answers. The problem is a problem.

SPEAKER_00:

There is no answers that we know of.

SPEAKER_03:

No, and I think all we can do is come together, power in numbers, support each other, go on late-night runs of your head torch of your your friends, go to the gym with your friends if you're nervous, and don't take any shit from any cis man.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Because yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They probably hate themselves more than they hate you, to be honest, but I mean, this is why I think it would be so interesting to actually know what is going on in one of those men's brains.

SPEAKER_03:

Not much. Honestly, I don't think much. They're all parrots. None of them have like their own original ideas either.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_03:

God, we are man hating.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I don't hate men.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I no, there's loads of nice men, just unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00:

I know some wonderful men, but there are 95% of them out there that I've encountered are dickheads.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Which is a shame.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's not gonna be changing anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

What a somber note to finish on. I know.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed that, thanks. Um, if you made it this far, thanks. And as always, like, share, review, subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you're listening to this on. Every bit of engagement, every bit of interaction from you helps so much.

SPEAKER_00:

Um we want to keep doing this as long as we can.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. We are gonna do some things. We just need time, don't we?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we're gonna have a day at some point in the new year, do some planning because we're busy, busy people. Yeah. Um, and we just need to put our fingers out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But we'll do it for you guys if you want it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let us know.

SPEAKER_03:

Please. Right. Uh, we'll be back next week with another empowering episode.

unknown:

Bye.

SPEAKER_03:

Bye.