Your Kids Are Watching How You Handle Stress (And That’s Not a Bad Thing)

In this episode of the Modern Therapy Podcast, we welcome Katie Germaine, an occupational therapist, author of the Honeybee Books, and maternal wellness advocate. Katie shares how storytelling can help children understand emotions, build resilience, and develop healthy coping skills. We discuss the importance of validating kids’ feelings, modeling emotional regulation, navigating parental burnout, and how small everyday moments can shape the way children learn to handle stress.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I remember hearing in school at some point they were talking about how stress is really real to you no matter what your age is. And so what happens, I and I feel like as we get older, like we might forget like how serious it felt to be the only kid that didn't have like the spirit day t-shirt or to not be included in the after-school basketball game. And as an adult, if we're managing our real stressors, it might be easy to say. Like, oh please, let it go. It's not that big of a deal. You want to see real stress, we can clear your mind, but it's not fair to compare the two.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

We're so excited to welcome Katie, an occupational therapist, author of the Honeybee Books, and a maternal wellness advocate, the Modern Therapy Podcast. Katie's work focuses on helping moms better understand their emotional well-being and the invisible mental load of motherhood by using storytelling as a powerful tool to spark conversations between parents and children. Her books center around themes like burnout, rest, and emotional awareness, and how these experiences shape both parent and child. Today we're diving into the mental load of motherhood, why so many moms feel constantly drained, and how that impacts not just their own well-being, but their children's mental health too. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Welcome, Katie. We are so excited to have you on the podcast today. Thank you. Katie is a local author as well as an occupational therapist, and we're going to start by reading an excerpt out of your book. So think positive is an often heard phrase because our thoughts have the power to change what we do or say. How we perceive the events of our day shapes our actions and feelings in many ways. I love that so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

It's great. It's like uh CBT in uh, you know, in a little short sentence there for kids, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Something that's easy to understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, yeah. So walk us through like how you came up with the ideas, how you came up with the titles of your book, with the content of your books.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah. So um, even though I write children's books, I work as an occupational therapist in geriatrics. So people always assume I work with kids. It's a misnomer. Um, but what ended up happening was the things that I do with my patients, they're often, you know, chronically ill or they have degenerative conditions, which means they get worse over time. And I had to help them kind of learn how to cope with these things. And it can be very hard to stay positive when things are not going well for you, or we know that maybe they're not going to get better. And so I would always talk to them about using their and. I have pain today, and I could walk. I'm feeling anxious, and I was able to shower today for the first time in a couple weeks, and that felt really great. You know, it's not discrediting what they're going through, but it's trying to help them reframe and find some positivity to hold on to in some challenging times. So once I had children, I found myself using the same strategies with them. We're not gonna discredit what they're going through. Even though they're small, those stressors are very real to them. So this is real, this is happening, I hear you. And here's something else that you know we can also put our energy into. We don't only need to focus on the negative or the tough things that we're going through.

unknown 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

How old are your kids?

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Sure, I have two boys, Proud Boy Mama. Um, they are eight and six. Eight and six, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Our our kids are four and two. And it is so funny, like you're you mentioned, like their emotions are just so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

You know, like something they're very deep.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

They're very deep. You know, like our daughter, like something the most minor thing happens and it just sends her into like a full emotional, you know, meltdown. The um the emotions are probably a little different between the boys and the girls, I bet.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

But um probably. But you know what it's interesting. I remember hearing in school at some point they were talking about how stress is really real to you no matter what your age is. And so what happens, I and I feel like as we get older, like we might forget like how serious it felt to be the only kid that didn't have like the spirit day t-shirt, or to not be included in the after school basketball game. And as an adult, we're managing our real stressors, it might be easy to say, like, oh, please let it go. It's not that big of a deal. You want to see real stress, wait until you're my age, you know what I mean? And um, but it's not fair to compare the two. So, how can we validate them without letting them drone in it and it like ruins their entire day, and all they're thinking about all day is they got excluded from this one thing. You know, so that's really where the and strategy from the power of positivity comes from.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

I think that's so important because you're not just saying be positive, just think about the good things and ignoring the bad thing that's going on. You're saying let's validate that, let's talk about that, and let's also focus on the positives because you see that a lot with like you know, people with toxic positivity where everything just needs to be perfect and positive all the time, but it's just not the world we live in. And it doesn't really set kids up for success to teach them that piece of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, and to understand that like these other feelings happen, these other feelings are real, and here's how we can try to work through them. Um, but you know, we're like naturally we have this like natural wiring to negativity, right? Evolutionarily, this was beneficial for us, this was how we survived. So it can become very easy if we don't keep it in check to really wallow and stay there for kids, for adults. Um, you know, as I'm sure we'll talk about my books have a lot of crossovers for children and adults. It's even though they are kids' books, my it was intentional that I'm speaking to the parents too. Um, you know, that we don't have to stay there.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, it's funny. Sometimes we'll read your books to our kids and I'm reading them and I'm like, yeah, these are like a kid, these are like this is a good reminder. I need to do this. Obviously, as mental health professionals, it's all stuff we know already, but it's like sometimes you don't like actively think about it. Like, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

And I I think as as kids, like being taught these skills is just so important, it sets them up for a lifetime of you know success and being able to like regulate those emotions and you know navigate the very complex world we live in, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Right, absolutely. And I feel like a lot of a lot of parents are you know millennial moms or whatever bracket you want to put people in. Like, we're trying to learn these things now when we are also in the trenches of parenting or postpartum survival mode, and all of a sudden we get here and it comes to a you know very real realization, like, I don't have any coping skills, I don't know what to do with this, I'm not sure how to handle this. So the goal in, you know, people often ask me, like, if you're interested in reaching parents, why didn't you just write like books for adults? And I said, Because how beautiful would it be if we taught kids now and in another 20, 30 years our statistics on maternal mental illness, paternal mental illness, those stats dropped because they learned now, they learned young how to do these things, and they're not in the phase of chaos trying to also figure out how to heal and parent yourselves and do all these other things because it is, it's it's hard work that parents are putting in these days.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

And what you're talking about with the millennial parents who they're trying to heal themselves, they're trying to unlearn things, and they're trying to teach things to their kids. Like, I can totally relate to that. And it's a really hard position to be in because I think so many parents feel like I have to have it all together because how am I supposed to teach my kids if like I don't know everything myself, but also I'm learning every day. So, and I've never parented before. Like, yeah, right, like you said, we have a four-year-old. I've never parented a four-year-old before. So, like, do I know what I'm doing? Not really. Like, I try to do my best. I I try to do, you know, what I think is gonna work, but I don't always know what I'm doing. And that's a really scary realization. And then on top of that, some of us were not taught those really basic skills of how to take care of ourselves, how to think positively, how to reach out when we need help. And these are all things that like it kind of comes to a boiling point when you're postpartum because a lot of people can kind of get by up until that point. And then suddenly you're like, oh wait, like that doesn't work anymore. And then we wonder why moms and dads are struggling so much.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Everybody's burned out. And I also love that because um one of the things I always try to do or say or convey in any like event that I'm doing is that yeah, I'm an OT. I have this schooling, I I I know the strategies, I use them at home, I write books about it, but I still struggle. I still have bad days, I have bad moments, I could tell you embarrassing stories till till the end of the day, you know, and that so like nobody's perfect, even when you have the knowledge and the skill set, we are all having this human experience for the very first time. You know, as my mom would say, you didn't come with a manual, and uh, you know, we're all just doing our best.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah, and you mentioned it before, but like the words that we use when we express things to our kids and that feeling of like, oh, I'll just wait. So you're older, right? Like kind of dismissing them. That's something that we talk about a lot, just that power of words. Even it's funny, my daughter now will ask questions about when I was pregnant, and she'll look at like old pictures and be like, what was it like when I was in your belly? And I'm like, it's even just the way that I speak about pregnancy and her birth and what that experience was like. Not that everything has to be like rainbows and unicorns, but if I make it like if I explain the positive parts of it, what her perception is gonna be so different as she gets older versus what most of us feel like when we get to that age, oh my gosh, this is terrifying. How am I gonna get pregnant? How am I gonna have a baby? Right? Because people don't pour into us the way that they should when it comes to these topics. And I'm like, wow, even just like changing the way that she's spoken to about this topic can make such a difference when she's bigger.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I was just gonna say, like a lot, you know, like school doesn't teach us a lot of things that are really important, you know, that school's not teaching us the emotional regulation, school's not teaching us about pregnancy or you know, maternity or what it's like to be a new mom or a new dad. So yeah, I mean that that that education's gotta come from the parents.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yeah, and I said even as um as an OT as a healthcare worker, postpartum rocked my world. I just assumed things were gonna go back the way they were. I just assumed breastfeeding would come naturally. I just I was just so ill prepared. And I definitely see there's like a lot more resources and education out there now, and that's that's fantastic. I love to see it. Um, you know, but I think it's also when we start that positive language and building a healthy mindset alongside using your words, knowing how to ask for help, then you know that the resources are out there and you can use them when you need them. It's okay to say, like, hey, I need these additional tools and supports to get me through this season of life, whether it's something stressful as an adolescent or a postpartum or when you're older. I mean, all seasons of life come with different kinds of challenges.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Absolutely. There is a fear that a lot of moms experience when they're in that postpartum phase. And, you know, I mean, we don't have to tell you how terrifying it can be, but when you're in the trenches of it and you feel like you're struggling, there can be this fear of reaching out because you feel like, well, I'm their mom. I'm supposed to be able to do this. And what's gonna happen if I admit out loud that I don't know how to do this or that I need help? I think there is like, there's this fear with moms that they feel like something's gonna happen to them or their baby if they say it out loud or they admit that they don't know what they're doing when that's not the truth, like nothing bad is going to happen, right? Unless you're in an actual dangerous situation. You're just going to get help. But yeah, I how do you what what are your thoughts on that where people are kind of in that place?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah, and I think a lot of that comes from stigma of that, you know, women just naturally know what to do when they become moms. It's natural. It's even if women express concerns during pregnancy, how many times would a maybe a well-intending family member say, Oh, don't worry, you'll know when it comes. It's it'll just come naturally.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

It's biological. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

And if it's not coming naturally in private, you're saying, Oh, is there something wrong with me? Is am I the problem? Right. And then you add on this guilt and the shame and this worry, uh, on top of just needing help with adjusting to a major chapter of life. So uh I think the more that people talk about it, um, you know, I don't I I teeter because some I think there's some spaces out there that they make motherhood sound so negative, right? And sharing the and the trying to create that commonality, we're like losing the joy in motherhood. You know, I don't want to lose the joy, but we can talk, we can acknowledge the struggle. And I think the more people share and the more people are vulnerable, even you know, driving in your car, listening to this podcast, you're like, okay, you know what? I think I am gonna make that phone call to that doula or that therapist or that pelvic floor PT because yeah, I need some help and it's okay. And I'm not the only one.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

It's it's like a difficult thing to articulate, especially to somebody who like hasn't has never had kids, you know, because uh on one end there is this tremendous joy that comes from you know having having children and you know seeing them and raising them, and um nothing can compare to that, you know. But then on the other hand, it is really a very hard struggle. Like you get you get slapped in the face with reality once you have a baby, you know, and all of a sudden there's this helpless human, right, that is like it will die if you don't care for it properly, right? Like so that's a tremendous amount of pressure, you know, and you're on top of the on top of that that mental load that you're carrying of like, okay, I need to, you know, raise this this person, you're also like dealing with all of those physical recovery, you know, from having the baby, all of the you know, emotional uh and mental health concerns that come up, you know. So it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

It's hard. Yeah, so this is where it's it's funny that you mentioned that because this is where even though my um, like I said, my field, my primary field that I've been in is in geriatrics, you know, working in home care for older adults. Let's say Miss Betty has a fall, she goes to the hospital, she comes home, V and A comes into the home, or whatever your meta company is in your region, right? So she has an issue and she has an immediate team of people that are triaged to her house to care for her to make sure that she's okay. And then I became a mom, and I was like, where in the world are these services for moms? We should have a triage of people that just are automatically sent to our house because you know, occupational therapy, we work on activities of daily living, right? How many moms say, I don't even have time to take a shower?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

That is a basic ADL, a basic daily activity that we do. You know, how much does our hygiene, you know, suffer? How much do we we just feel like I remember being close part of and I was like, I think I've been wearing this shirt for three days. I'm like, I need to change my clothes. And you get lost in that like time warp of sleepless nights. Yes. Um, and so it really just becoming a mom and having my OT brain really highlighted for me this like gap in maternal health. Um and so as an OT, what I try to do with my patients, I try to bring in like a simple strategy that's gonna help you function and feel better. I'm not gonna fix the whole problem, I'm not gonna take everything away, but if I leave you feeling a little bit better than when I came in, that's my goal, right? And that really is like the premise of these books. Simple strategies, I'm not gonna fix all the problems. We're not gonna take away the reality of the stressors of postpartum or the other many stages of parenthood. But if I can give you one simple strategy that's gonna help you and your children feel a little bit better, then I'm happy. Then I've I feel good about what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah, I love that perspective because like it's gonna be hard and it is what it is, and like, you know, let's just do what we can. Yep. Right. And I I love your idea or or perspective on like, you know, maternity care. Um, you know, it's like I saw a um a reel recently on Instagram of a new mom, and there's a service, I think it's in like North Korea or something, where you actually physically go to the facility for like it's like 30 days, right? And or maybe it's like 14, I think it's 14 days, and they have like a full she was like outlining the services that are provided. It's like a full staff, they bring you like healthy, nourishing meals, they like give you foot rubs, they take they physically like care for the baby when you need it, like just like full service concierge, like luxury. It is forty thousand dollars, so not very expensive. Minor details. But you know, after going through that, it's like, oh, if you could afford that, like, oh, that's that's not a bad idea. We need to get it covered under insurance. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Well, I'm sure. I mean, there's a lot of things where affordability and accessibility are a real barrier for people to access care. Um, but even you know, thinking more of the you know, Western cultures, right, they have more of that community mentality where they pull together to care for others. And that's I think also part of why, you know, women here in our culture, we struggle a little bit more because we have that more individualistic mentality. I should be able to do it on my own. I shouldn't need help, right? Should, should, should, right? My my girlfriend has this great expression. She goes, Why are you shoulding all over yourself? And I'm like, thank you, thank you for helping me get back in check, right? How much of that is really true to myself, or how much of it is just these like strange societal expectations that tend to creep in, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah, I think that's so major because if you think about every other life phase that you go into before that, you are kind of expected to be pretty independent. And even just, you know, for us, like in a relationship, we have each other, but we were kind of this little bubble that was very independent. Like we never asked for help, we never went to people for anything, we'd feel guilty asking for anything ever. And we always just figured it out on our own. And it wasn't because there was like this pridefulness about it, it's just we felt like that was just the expectation. That's what's what you do as a married couple. And then all of a sudden we have a baby, and I'm like, What do we do? And he's like, Well, we have to call our parents and ask them to come help. And I'm like, That's I can't do that. They're gonna wonder, they're gonna be like, Why did she even have a baby? She can't take care of it. Why is she why are we doing this? And it really took a long time. I think I'm just getting more comfortable now with feeling like, oh, it's okay to say like I need help right now because you feel like it's not they're gonna just judge you. And it's nothing that anyone else was doing, but it's just that mindset of like I should be able to do this.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I don't know if you re you remember this, you know, having kids. Like, I remember at one point thinking to myself, like, oh man, like my parents had like four kids. How did they do that? How did they do that? How did they raise me?

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah, and they didn't have like all this, you know, this knowledge that we have now, or all these, you know, and it's it it is so different, you know, it's it's different. Um, but I I often have to to remind myself, like, it was different in other ways too, right? We lived in a world where I remember being outside, I was riding my bike, I was gone all day. I mean, I would come, right, you come home for dinner. We don't live in that world anymore, at least, you know, not within my my comfort barriers, to just like let my kids roam free. So that also puts like a lot of extra demands on parents. Like we become the extra curriculars, we become the entertainment, we become the the heavy planners and the schedule makers. And I think that's an extra layer of stress that I don't know if that was necessarily there when our parents were raising us.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

A hundred percent. And you you mentioned like the resources and the education that we have right now. Sometimes I think it's such a double-edged sword. It's great in so many ways, and I am grateful that we have Google and Chat GPT and all these things while we're parenting. So the amount of things I've frantically Googled. Yes, it's very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

But ChatGPT is like, calm down.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, but on the other end, it's almost like that fatigue of you have so much information, and then you're finally like, okay, I can relax. It's the end of the night. Let me just scroll a little bit. And here's a post about someone homeschooling and address and making sourdough. And here's someone talking about how like your kids know you're on your phone, even if they're sleeping. And then here's a post about how like you need to go like move to a farm. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I a million times. I need to just like not scroll at night because I feel like a terrible mom every time I do.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

I say this all the time. I said I go on my Instagram feed and I could see all the reasons my kids are being preyed upon, and I can't tell why my husband's gonna leave me, how I can lose 10 pounds, look better in this bikini. Um, and here's an ad for something I need from Amazon. And we consume all this information in literally a 90-second bracket, which is so hard on our brains and our nervous systems. Um, and this is I I talk about this all the time how the social media wave of education is such a double-edged sword. It's the perfect way to describe it because we want to disseminate the information. It's an easy way, it's free, and it's it's an accessible way for families to get information. But the way that these social medias are designed, it's it's so harmful the way we consume it. Um, I oftentimes I delete my social media off my phone, which is bad for my business, right? We need it's we need social media to promote, but I am a terrible doom scroller, right? And uh, you know, and we've mentioned the mental load, right? We're talking about burnout. Like doom scrolling is a sign that we are burning out. And if we use that as an unhealthy coping mechanism and we go on there and see all these things that are frying our brain and our nervous system even more, it's actually making us feel worse, not better. And we kind of get caught in this like trap of you know, of the scrolling cycle.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, we actually set a limit on my phone recently. I think it's like 10 or 15 minutes, combined with um Instagram and TikTok. So my phone will like it'll pop up and be like, you're at your limit today. And because we do use it for work, most of the time that's like the time I'm using it for work. So by the time I even like go to scroll, like I'm out of time. And that has been really helpful for me because I was doing the same thing. And it's great because sometimes we're sitting there, we're laughing, and it's it's funny and we're watching things and it's a release, but then you get that one post that pops up that just makes you question everything you're doing. And I'm like, well, relaxation is out the window now. I feel terrible.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

It's pretty cool. I didn't realize like until she showed me that that you could actually do that, like limit the you know, app time. I of course have found a way around it. You just hit ignore for today and then too.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Ignore for five minutes. Yeah, yeah. Just ignore for forever.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

You know, it's gonna be a little disciplined with it. It's yeah, it's it's tough.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

You can tell which which person on this couch has more self-control.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

I also think that I'm the person who's affected more by the posts. Like, I don't think that they affect you as much as they affect me.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Our feeds are very different.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Our feeds are very different, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Yes. Yeah, but it talks to the power right of the algorithm, right? I mean, I'm not well versed in the social media technologies, but like what my husband sees on social. Media is totally different than what I see. And it really talks to how women are are geared and being fed more of these guilt, guilt bait posts about parenting. And they're they're guised as educational, but really they make you feel bad. And oftentimes they're linked to products, which is what I I'm not loving right now in the social media space. Like here's how you're failing as a mom. And if you comment guide and you know, buy my workbook for $30, I'm gonna fix all your problems. Like, and women are in such a state where they're suffering that this is this is what they're being fed. And I don't I don't think that that is that is the most helpful. I think there's resources that can be out there that can build you up, that can keep things positive, um, and that can give you some tools without making you feel bad about yourself first.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, I think that is such a major point to think about. What is the goal of this post? Is it to educate me? Is it to entertain me, or is it to sell me something? Is it to make me feel bad? And being able to kind of like discern that can be really powerful. And seeing, okay, what are the credentials of this person? We've talked about it in the health space a lot. Like I was watching this reel and it was saying how like baby carrots are like, I don't know, they can like they are poisonous, they can end pregnancies, like all this crazy, like you shouldn't eat them when you're and I'm like, oh my gosh, I ate so many baby carrots when I was pregnant. And then I I I think I showed it to you, and you're like, Cassie, like this is ridiculous. Who even posted this? And of course I look and it's some like health coach selling what and I'm like, okay, why am I listening to this? This is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

No, unfortunately, like the negative posts like get more engagement. They do. And it goes back to what we opened up with, right? Like, you know, negative thought, we're wired for negative thoughts, right? And so that's why your books are so great, is because it teaches us how to combat that at such a young age, you know, like because if you're not actively fighting like what you're being fed in that algorithm, it's gonna sweep you up.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Right. And and if you think about it, if if the doom scrolling, if you will, is a cause of burnout, then we're not really being reflective in what we're consuming. And I'm not saying that to put blame on anybody, but it's just to highlight the reality, like, hey, we might kind of want to check in with ourselves. Am I scrolling because I'm laughing at this funny cat video? Or am I scrolling because I'm really zoning out because I'm so burnt out? Maybe we need to swap out a little bit of scrolling time for a different strategy to help us feel better.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Like having that toolbox, what else can we reach for? Maybe it's reading a book or taking a bath or like watching a show that is not gonna hit you with ads or something like that. Because it's funny, I'm like, oh, no more screen time, I can't be on my phone, but then I go and turn the TV on. But I'm like, but if I'm relaxing and watching a show, it's different. Like I'm not getting fed the same kind of stuff that I am on my phone. But obviously, yeah, there's things that are not on screens that are helpful too. So in your other book, you talk a lot about recharging Mommy B. And first of all, I just love the characters in these books. Like, I love that they have hair, like it is just the cutest.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

They're good illustrations for sure. I just look to my illustrator, Ardean. She does a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

They're so adorable. I love the Daddy B. He's so cute. Um, so talk to us a little bit about what the message was behind there, what exactly it means to recharge, because I think a lot of us can conceptualize it, but maybe not in our day-to-day.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Right. So um, this story, so all my books, the three story books I've written, are all things that come from from my regular everyday life, things that I've that I've done that work in my family. And so my premise is if it helps me, maybe it'll help you too. Um, and my the recharge Mommy Beat was my first book. It was written in 2022. My kids at the time were about four and two. Um, it came about because that Christmas, every toy they received had a charger. So before they could play with anything, they had to plug it in and charge it up. And it was like shortly after the holidays, I was like any mom who worked her butt off to make all the holiday magic. I was like needed a day to just cow trot, and they were please, mommy, play, please, please. And I go, guys, you know how your toys needed to charge before they could play? I said, right now, mommy is charging. And they go, Oh, okay. And they walked away and they started to play. And I was floored. I go, no way did this just work. Wow. It just, I don't know where it came from. It just popped into my brain, and I kept using it again and again. And my husband started using it. Our parents, when they were babysitting, would say it, like, oh, grandma's recharging after our 37th game we've played today, you know? Um, because I think for them it was something tangible, it was something that they understood. It's time constructs for kids are hazy. We might not understand what later means, or it might feel like rejection, or mommy doesn't want to play. But when they understand, like, oh, hey, my uh monster truck takes 20 minutes to charge. Maybe mommy just needs some time to recharge too, and it worked. Um, and so that's really where the idea from the book came from. Uh, and I just was like, you know what? I'm gonna self-publish, I'm gonna put the idea out there. And I'd never in a million years thought I would be like sitting here on a podcast talking about a book series. Um, but it just it really turned out to be a powerful tool for families because it provided a script for moms and for and for dads for parents to say to communicate their need for rest um without yelling, without shaming, without kind of getting to that point where we just blow up because we've had it to hear for the day. Um, it gave them child-friendly language to express their needs.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah, I I love that. I'm gonna take that.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah, well, it's funny because our daughter she'll use it now. And in one of the scenes, you have the mommy bees on a treadmill, and I have a little walking pad. So she'd be like, Oh, mommy bees on her walking pad, like you're on yours. And I'm like, Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

So then she pulls it together.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, so she was like putting it together of like, okay, like she does this and you do this. And she would ask me questions. She's like, but how does she recharge? But what does that mean? And I was like, Wow, like in a lot of the books that I read with her, she doesn't ask that many questions. Maybe if there's something a little confusing or something she wants to like character or something, but I noticed that this was sparking a lot of conversation, I think because it so much puts your family like in the story of like, that's your mom, that's your dad, that's me. And it was making her think about her own life in a way that was really sparking a lot of conversation that I don't see in other books that I read with her.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Thank you. I that's a huge compliment. Thank you. That kind of speaks to like my it was an intentional like duality of the storylines. Like, yes, mommy B is the main character in this story, but the other parts of the book talk about like how moms help us monitor our batteries and how kids can monitor their batteries. So again, we're teaching them at a young age, like, you have a battery, it can charge up, it can run out, we need to take breaks, we need to rest. It's okay to say, like, no, I can't do that right now, I need a minute. Um, so it's you know, yes, like the message was for moms, but there's also a lot there that kids learn too. So you can sit down, and in the maybe five minutes it takes you to read the book to your child, you're really pulling away a lot of you know, short sound bites, a lot of usable resources, and it doesn't take a lot of time.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah, and they just connect with it so much, I think, because the characters are so cute and because they can see themselves in these situations, and it just makes them think, okay, what like what would I do in that situation? And yeah, and it it also gives kids more credit that they can understand these bigger concepts. Sometimes it feels like because they're so small, they like they just can't grasp these things. So I just have to say no because if I try to explain it, they're not gonna understand it. But I find myself every day being so surprised by how much our toddlers know and how much that they understand. Yes. And I feel like I never give them enough credit. And not because I think anything like low of them or anything like that, I just always feel like, well, I have to like do so much more because they're so small and they just don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

But then sometimes they get it, and I'm like, wow, they can be so insightful. Yeah, they really can.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

They really can. Like, even I'll notice if I'm like, or like the other day my daughter did something and I was not happy that she did it, I forget what it was. And I just kind of like was just being like a little more monotone, like I was just a little like frustrated, and I'm like, I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it, whatever. And she said to me, She's like, Why are you talking like that? And I was like, Oh, maybe I should tell her I'm annoyed because I wasn't gonna make a thing of it. And I said, Well, to be honest, I'm a little frustrated that you did X, like, so I'm just I'm not mad, but I'm just not really happy right now. Right. And she's like, Oh, like you're not happy that I did, blah, blah, blah. And then we talked about it and it was a whole conversation. I'm like, here I am thinking, I can't talk to her about this because she's not gonna get it and it's gonna be a whole big ordeal. But meanwhile, she was like, Oh, like mom's upset about something, and she probably knew it was because of her or something she did. Right. And I was like, wow, I'm just so impressed that a four-year-old is able to have this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

They are so perceptive and they are constantly, my kids are constantly feeding back to me what I say to them in moments where like I am not showing up as my best self. Yes. You know, they will there I'll never forget my we had a family member gift my son a deck of mindfulness cards for kids. They were these cutest little like watercolor animal cards, and I was having like one of those days. I mean, like, just it was a bad day, and I'm on the verge of just my head is gonna blow. And my son walks into the kitchen and he hands me this card with a deer on it, and he goes, Mommy, I think you need this today. And I was like, I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or be mad at you, but it was just like it was amazing to see him. Like he saw, you know, he saw what was happening. He offered me a tool that was offered to him. It's like they really are very, very insightful. And and it's I think it's I mean, I hope it's an okay thing. I hope it's a good thing because we're human. I think so often a lot of the things that are fed to moms with these like strategies, we feel like we have to be these like perfect parents. And that's not the case, that's not reality. It's okay for them to see emotions. I think the important part is how we handle it, right? Or even if it really goes terribly from start to finish, how do we repair later on? How do we talk about it the next morning? Because they're gonna be grown-ups one day and they're gonna have really tough feelings, and this is gonna be the guide that they use to help them get through it.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

And I mean, like, kids are incredibly resilient. I mean, they really they really are. Like, even on all like our worst days, like, you know, if you think back to like some of the things that like you went through through childhood, right? Like gives you a little bit of a perspective of like everything's fine, like right, like we all we all grew up okay, like you know, like so. Sometimes I think like and social media is obviously a part of this, that like we just get so in our heads about you know these these little things, and you know, we forget that like no like kids are designed to just like be resilient, they bounce, right? They don't break. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

And something that I've actually talked to my own therapist about before is there's just so many I probably something that I was saying, like that, you know, oh, I was like upset and I don't want her to see me like that. And she finally said to me, like, why can't she know that you're a human? And she kind of explains like as she gets older, she's going to face people who are emotional. She is gonna get emotional herself. And if she just feels like her mom is just like in this box and everything's perfect all the time, she's not gonna know how to deal with any of it because she's just gonna feel like, well, it's not supposed to be like that. Everything's supposed to be great. I think I like was frustrated at her one day and I cried in front of her, and I was just like so upset at myself for crying in front of her. But she's like, but like she can see that. That's okay. Like, obviously, you don't want to be breaking down in front of your kids every single day, but you're gonna have those moments, and it really changed my perspective of oh, maybe instead of trying to pretend like everything's great all the time, maybe I should just show her, hey, when we're upset, here's how we deal with it. Like mommy does need a minute, right? Like, mom is frustrated right now, and that's okay. I don't need to have a big explosion, but I also don't need to pretend like everything's okay. Right. And that's where teaching those skills so when she feels frustrated, she can say, Oh, this is what I do. I it really changed my thinking to, oh, this is actually more beneficial to her.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Right. I mean, it's a great reframe and it takes the pressure off. Again, this like pressure for these perfect parenting moments. Sometimes we have days where we totally crush it. There's days where I'm like, man, this went so great. I couldn't have asked for anything better, right? And there's days that are opposite, and there's days that are in the middle. But I think if you just keep showing up, they're gonna see that. And it's those little, those little things over time. And again, the same same things that you're pulling from those books, the books, those little strategies. They're not time consuming, they're not lengthy, they don't cost anything. This isn't an exorbitant amount of time. We're talking about 30 seconds to take a deep breath. We're talking about 90 seconds to, you know, you you drop that spatula on the floor, and instead of saying, Oh my god, I'm such an idiot, why do I keep dropping everything today? You know, my kids are sitting at that counter. I try to take that breath and say, Whoops, I made a mistake. You know, they're little switches. It's 10, 20, 30 seconds worth of work. But that built over a long period of time has a really positive effect on you and your brain and your kids.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, we talked a little bit about like what like being mindful of what we're consuming, like as adults, and I think like we should we we also need to be really mindful of what our kids are consuming, right? And so it's like the choice, like as parents, we choose what books we put in front of our kids and what what we read. And one of the things that I found after having kids is that there are a lot of books that are just like the themes are not great.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah, that teach them things that you're like, I don't I don't want them gravity.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Sometimes I find myself reading books and I'm like, I don't like I don't really like like what this is saying.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, I don't want her to be like portraying this or doing this.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Right. So I think like just a really simple, easy way to be a better parent is to just like be really selective about what you're reading to your kids and what your kids are reading. And you know, books that have themes like the power of positivity and recharging and are teaching these emotional skills, I think are really important to be to be feeding our kids.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah. And that they consume every single thing that we say and do. And even when we're not saying it, they are picking up on it.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Same thing with TV shows, right? Like if, you know, some some TV shows for kids I watch and I'm like, wow, like why are we teaching this?

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Let's not watch that, right? Yes, it it you know, we're we're I'm a pretty um say strict household as far as like um technology and what I bring in, and it's just the no shame or judgment to anyone that does otherwise. It's just a personal preference for me, mostly built out of laziness because I know how much effort it takes to monitor. So I was like, you know what? If I don't bring it in, I don't have to monitor it. Yeah. But there, yeah, there's been some cartoons and some things that we kind of, you know, pass through the living room and we're like, what are they actually saying? Yes. You know, or I noticed they'll watch like certain, you know, shows, and then all of a sudden they've they've got these like little attitudes, or they're trying to like mimic this um, I'm gonna say like fresh, I guess, behavior. And I'm like, fresh behavior, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:54

That we had that happen. So our daughter watched like one episode of Fancy Nancy on I'll Hulu, whatever it is, because we read Fancy Nancy, it's one of her favorite characters, and she was so no shame to anyone who watches the show, but I found her to be so bratty on the show. And my daughter literally said, I want to be like Fancy Nancy. And I'm watching her like yelling at her mom, yelling at her sister. At one point, she like she like wanted a pair of shoes at the store, and her mom's like, No, no, no, you can't have them. And she threw like this huge tantrum, she threw herself on the ground and was like, I can't live without these shoes. And then you fast forward five minutes into the episode, she did enough chores in one day to afford a $30 pair of shoes. She goes back and she buys the shoes. And I'm like, What is this teaching you? Like, oh my god, I know it sounds so dramatic, but it's just thought to myself, I let you watch like one show a day. Is this what I'm gonna let you consume? Like, why?

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Why would I want this to be the message that you're hearing? Yeah, but you know, I feel like it's it's also worth noting too that like the um I think especially in this day and age where people like don't really have a village and parents are like we're burnt out, we're stressed, like screen time becomes more of the I'm gonna say babysitter or entertainer for parents to function and get through the other things that need to get done, you know. Um, and so like monitoring also becomes another part of the mental load to make sure your kids are consuming safe entertainment. And it's it's definitely, you know, I'm not saying it's easy. Yeah, you know, it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

And I think like a lot of times, like, you know, first of all, like sometimes that's necessary, right? Like, you know, parents don't have the resources, they have to rely on these methods, like you know, and that that's we're we're not we're absolutely not demonizing that, you know. I think that like a lot of it's well meaning, and like you think to yourself like these production companies that are putting out this content, like you're trusting them to make content that's appropriate for children and that's beneficial for children. And I think like to think that like sometimes that's not happening, you don't think about that. It's same thing with food, right? Like kids' food, like that's like a lot of that stuff is like absolutely terrible, you know? It's horrible, you know. So, and like, but like if you're not reading the ingredients, you wouldn't even know that.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Well, I don't think their goal is to make shows that are good for kids. I think their goal is to make shows that hook kids.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Right, right. You don't like what I'm saying is like you don't always actively like think that.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

No, you don't, you don't. Yeah. If you ever want a good resource, if you want to use any screen time for kids, is go to old school 90s cartoons. We have watched Little Bear, and it is just the sweetest on the shelf. It's so calming and grounding, and there's no bright colors, and I love the themes that they teach. Like, go to shows that have that are already they're not in production anymore, and then you can actually know if they're good or not, because you won't get hit with any surprises.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah, I don't I have not done my own research on this, so I don't know if maybe I need to be fact-checked, but I saw something online that said how children's programs today are designed with whatever percentage higher brightness, volume, and speed with like rapidly changing images compared to the pace at which cartoons were produced in like our, you know, in the 90s, um, and how those things are impacting kids' brains, and it just, you know, major.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Well, I think that's why Fancy Nancy was so shocking because the only show our daughter had ever watched was Little Bear, and we always just loved it so much. And then when we were scrolling and I saw and I was like, Oh, Fancy Nancy, she would love that. And then when I put the episode on, I was like, it was so bright, it was so loud, it was so obnoxious. She's screaming in every other scene, and I'm like, what a night and day difference from Little Bear to this show. So I can, I mean, that's only you know two instances, but I 100% saw that.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Yeah, I mean, and even just talking about like one TV episode, like how much stress has that brought up for when we're sitting in a room of parents and we're already like stressed out about a TV show. That is like one little tiny facet of our entire day. So it really, you know, talking about the overarching scope of like maternal stress, paternal stress, just the general angst that parents are under these days. Like, look at how heavy one decision is to put on you could all these thoughts around selecting one TV show, and it was a show you were putting on to hopefully do like seven other things. Right. Right. So it's really just wondering why people are so burnt out.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, this is why. Yeah. And I think it also goes back to I I think that there's a standard right now for parents that it's like no shade to any other generation, but I do think that the standard for parenting is just so high right now, and it feels impossible to reach, and it probably is impossible to reach. But my mom will joke, like she'll send me reels where it's like, you know, things that I had to worry about, like when I was younger, and it was like, lock the door, like don't talk to strangers, and like they would go to work. It's like things parents like worry about now. There's like a hundred things, and she laughs, like, you know, we're interviewing for babysitters, and we're asking for like resumes and are you C PR certified and how much experience do you have?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

It's like an executive circuit.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

And they're coming and like they're meeting the kids, and it's like interview number three. And she's like, I'd be like, Oh, there's like a high schooler down the street, they're gonna babysitter. But that's what everyone had, everyone had a high school babysitter, and it was just normal, and nobody thought anything about it. And I'm like, why suddenly is the standard so different? And like we wouldn't have it any other way, because obviously we don't want to lower our standards, but sometimes I'm like, maybe I should lower my standard just every once in a while with the smaller decision.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

With small, yes, I was gonna say, with smaller decisions, yes, you can definitely um lessen the load a little bit, you know, and and we think if if things are feeling really that overwhelming to kind of sit down and whether it's with yourself or with your partner, your family unit, whatever it is, like how can we re-prioritize what it is that we're doing here? Like, are all of these all these things that we're carrying are these really that pertinent? Is this really of the most importance? Does our schedule really need to look like this? You know, is everyone really enjoying doing all this running around that we're doing? How can we kind of reprioritize so we feel better?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah, I think having that overarching view of like, okay, as a family unit, how are we doing? Because when you're in the day-to-day and you're in the trenches of it, it's so easy just to look at every little like minute thing that's going on. But when you kind of step back and say, okay, as a family, what's our pulse? How are we doing? Where do we need to pull back? Who needs more support at this time? Sometimes it's mom, sometimes it's dad, sometimes it's the kids. And I think reevaluating that as a unit, I think that can be so effective.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Yeah, because we I think we, you know, we're all kind of guilty of getting into those seasons of life where it's like autopilot. And then you don't realize how this chronic stress is impacting how you sleep, it's impacting what you're eating, whether it's too much or too little, it's impacting your connection with your partner, it's impacting how you respond to your kids. And when you really sit back and kind of see how all these pieces are adding up together. Um, you're like, wow, maybe this is why like women all over the world just chronically don't feel good all the time. That chronic I don't feel good syndrome, you know, because you put all those pieces together, yeah, it's pretty obvious why no one's feeling that great.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Yeah, 100%. So we talked about so many good things. So we so many good things, such a good I needed this episode. Um, so we end every episode with Am I the Problem? Do you want to read it?

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Yeah, sure. All right, so uh we pull these from Reddit, they're real, they're real scenarios. Um so am I the problem for making one of the chores the kids do about quote unquote mental load. So we have three kids, and when they turn 12, I start making one of their chores about finding something to do. For example, make your bed, dishes away, and find a chore. So the kid will look around the house and find a chore. It can be anything. Really uh did this to teach them to see if something is dirty or needs fixed or needs fixing, they can go and do it without needing instruction. Sometimes the kids pick something small like vacuum a rug, other times they pick something not realizing how big the task is. Reorganizing the game room, for example. Anyway, it teaches them to figure out what needs to be done and then do it. Overall, my oldest kid took only a bit uh took only a little bit to do this. My son just turned 12 and he's struggling. I'm trying to get him to understand. He got so frustrated today that he couldn't see what needed to be done in the house that he locked himself in his room. Tried to have him write a list of what he thought could be cleaned in the living room, and it didn't work. My husband is mad that I'm giving them quote unquote mental load chores. We had an argument, and really I'm just trying to help their problem-solving skills. Am I the problem?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

What are your thoughts on this? How much time do we have? Um, this is a fantastic question to really wrap up our discussion, right? Because it really encapsulates all these topics, right? So even the question itself, we're touching upon the mom carrying the load of trying to teach her kid executive functioning skills. When it's not going well, she's carrying the blame and the shame and the guilt for it not going well. Um so, like, how do we break this down, right? To answer the question, no, this mom is not the problem, and I applaud her for doing really great work. Um, kids are not just going to wake up one day and spontaneously generate these skills. They need practice. They take years of honing and shaping for them to learn how to do these things, whether it's cleaning or cooking or independent home or whatever the task is, it's not just gonna come overnight. It takes time. So um the first thing that I would like to see for this family is for the mom and the dad to get on the same page. And that might just take some honest discussion. Um, who's to say? You know, maybe the dad's just in defense of the son, maybe the mom and dad don't share the same values as far as sharing the mental load, right? This is really the first generation that's talked about it. Um, this is why the honeybees family teamwork exists, because people don't even know what the mental load is, or it's just this is the woman's work, right? This is really a new concept that dads are being so progressive and being so involved in the home. They might need a little chat to get themselves on the same page. When we're in the height of this stressful moment is not the time I would recommend having the chat. Let things calm down, get back together with your partner, and kind of figure out how you guys want to tackle this. Okay. So that would be my first thought for them. My second thought would be that it sounds like the son is struggling to find the skills to do this. So this child might just need a little bit more support, what we would call in the OT world, like a little bit more scaffolding to help him shape and be able to do this activity. Um, you know, something I do with my own kids uh who also sometimes have this experience where they go into shutdown. Either they can't do it, they don't have the skills to do it, or let's be honest, they don't want to do it. Who wants to do any of this work? Not most of us. So when we don't want to do it, it's not motivating. We're gonna go into shutdown mode. So if they can't just walk into the room and figure out what needs to be done, I will try to scale it back for them by saying, pick three things on the floor that belong to you and put them in your room. Instead of saying clean the living room. That could mean nothing to them. They they're not gonna understand what that means. Or if I say we need to straighten up the house. I said to my son the other day, you need to pick up your room. He goes, Well, I can't physically lift it. I said, Okay, Amelia Bedelia, where are my 90s readers? Right? Like, it's not what I meant. Specific directions help them carry out the task and just consistency. This kid could have been having a bad day, he could have a variety of things, right? And can we offer a little bit of motivation? I will actually tell my my family, I see when we work together as a team, you know what that leaves me? More energy for fun. So I know doing this stuff kind of stinks, but then the task gets done faster, and then guess what? We've got extra time. Now we can go for that bike ride you wanted to go on. Now we can play that game you've been asking me to play. And the motivation uh is doing something together as a family. And I I picked that intentionally. I want the reward to be something that's because when you get time outside, what does that help? Helps our physical fitness, helps our mental health. So you're feeding a very positive cycle. You work as a team, you do something fun together as a family, and it's not gonna go perfect all the time. But if you try a little bit each weekend, consistency over time yields positive results.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Wow. I think that was the most comprehensive, well-spoken reaction problem that we've had.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

That's a great analysis.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I would not add anything to that.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah, no, I think that's perfect. I think all the points you made were great, and you know, the consistency is so it's such a good point because for all we know, this is the first time she's ever even brought this up to him. Right. And he's overwhelmed. Like, what is this? But then you bring it up another time, another time, another time, and then eventually it's not this new kind of scary thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

So I do I do want to say that I love the point. The first point you made was to address the fact that the husband and the wife need to be on the same page.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

If they're fighting about it in front of the kids, which they didn't say if they are or not, but that's not really gonna motivate the kids to do it because they're like, Well, dad's got my back, so I don't have to worry about this.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Kids are smart, they know how to game the system. They do sure do.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Absolutely. So that was so great. This is such a good conversation. Thank you. Where can people find you? Where can they purchase the books?

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Sure, yeah. So the Honey Bees book series is three story books and one activity book. They're all available online on Amazon. Um, you can search the Honeybees books or Katie Germain author. Um, even though I know I need to step up my social media game uh to manage my Doom Scrolling, but you can find me on Instagram or on Facebook. It's at honeybeeshive with two underscores.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Well, thank you so much. Thank you. This was great. Thanks for having me in.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Of course.