Therapy According to Hollywood

Hollywood loves to make therapy dramatic, emotional, and sometimes wildly unrealistic. In this episode, we react to iconic therapy scenes from Ozark, Shrinking, Good Will Hunting, The Sopranos, and Ted Lasso to break down what Hollywood gets right, what it gets wrong, and what therapy actually looks like.

We cover boundaries, confrontation, rapport, emotional breakthroughs, and some of the biggest misconceptions about therapy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Hollywood has a lot of opinions on how therapy is supposed to go. We've seen in a lot of movies, a lot of TV shows, and it's almost never how therapy actually is. Today we're gonna react to some of the most iconic therapy scenes in TV and movies. From the Sopranos and Goodwill Hunting to Ted Lasso Shrinking and Ozark will break down what Hollywood gets right and what it gets completely wrong, and how these moments compare to what therapy actually looks like. Whether you've been in therapy for years or have never stepped into a therapist's office, we hope this episode gives you a better understanding of the therapeutic process and maybe even changes the way you see these unforgettable scenes. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

Today we have a fun episode where we are going to go through different scenes that Hollywood uses to portray therapy. So some are ridiculous, some are actually pretty realistic, and you'll get our opinions on them.

SPEAKER_06 0:56

This is gonna be really fun, and you know, Hollywood has a lot of opinions on how therapy is supposed to go. We see it in a lot of movies, a lot of TV shows, and it's almost never how therapy actually is.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

Well, it wouldn't always make super interesting TV. So I think that's part of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:14

I always thought it would be a cool idea to have like a reality TV show that actually does like do like real life couple sessions.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Well, they have one of those now. I forgot the name of it, but when I was researching for this episode, there is a show about couples counseling. Oh, really? And it's this therapist, and she does couples counseling, and supposedly they actually film the real sessions. But it's funny.

SPEAKER_06 1:38

I don't know if I believe it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:40

Well, the preview was just so dramatic. It was like dun dun dun, and every scene was like couples screaming at each other and people breaking up and all this craziness. And I'm like, it's TV, I get it, but they're not always gonna be that interesting of a session. Like, if you actually watch just real sessions, I don't think it would be uh anywhere near as entertaining. Yeah, yeah, probably not. Um, or I would hope not, because that would be really stressful if every session was that crazy.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

The quiets and the therapists.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

Yeah, yeah, it would not be recommended. Okay, scene number one is a scene from Ozark.

SPEAKER_06 2:13

This is like my favorite, my favorite one of the ones we're gonna do, I think. It's funny because Cassie had this one set up for last, and I was like, no, no, no, put it first.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Yeah, we gotta have it first. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

I think that the two of you are doing a terrific job at talking this out. Really? Because I feel like we're going in circles. So please, weigh in.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

You gotta have something to say.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

I do, actually. What does it say about a marriage when a husband and wife both try to bribe the therapist? You're both paying me off.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

They're what's this?

SPEAKER_04 2:56

It's a car.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

It's a transformer, and I spoke to you about conspicuous spending. Send this back.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

Yeah, seeing Marty, that's your problem. You you are always trying to control everything.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

She's completely gaslighting.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

She's gaslighting air quiet.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

So bad.

SPEAKER_06 3:17

Quick five-second high-level background of Ozark for people who haven't seen it. Yes. It's a very interesting show. They're basically him, Marty, and his wife are the main characters, and they're like, you know, basically like they turn into these like kingpins, these kind of like mob kingpins. Um high-level overview. Like, there's a it goes very deep, but you know, they're they're they're both like running a very high-level crime syndicate. Um, and they were having marriage issues. The her um his wife cheated on him, um, and they have a whole myriad of other like very complicated like murders and you know, messy, messy, messy stuff going on. So um I guess they go to couples, couples' counseling and they both try to bribe the therapist, which is funny because they want the other person to be convinced of something, you know, it's just so wild.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Okay, so why don't we talk about why that is not a realistic view of therapy? No, I'm not saying no one has ever bribed their therapist before.

SPEAKER_06 4:19

Have you have you ever been bribed?

SPEAKER_05 4:20

I've never been bribed. I definitely have never been, you know, to the point of needing to get a Lamborghini, but um, why is that so wrong?

SPEAKER_06 4:29

Oh, it's wrong in so many ways. I mean, first of all, just like going going on the therapist part, like you should never obviously accept bribes. You know, the therapist is questionable just right off the bat. And then the clients obviously are not going into therapy seriously if if they think that you know, bribing, they just want the outcome, right, rather than the process.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

So well, what's funny is I think if I'm remembering correctly, they say that you are not supposed to even accept a gift from a client.

SPEAKER_08 4:58

If a client comes and they give you a Christmas present, right?

SPEAKER_05 5:02

I think if it's over like a ten dollar value, you're not supposed to accept unless you think that declining will really negatively impact the therapeutic relationship, then obviously you use some discernment there.

SPEAKER_06 5:12

And what's the reason for that?

SPEAKER_05 5:13

The reason could be, you know, for stuff like this, that they are trying to buy your affection, that they are maybe just crossing a boundary where they think that like you're a friend or a family member rather than a professional who's helping them. And like there, there you can't be neutral, right? There's no being neutral. And that's actually one of the biggest complaints that people have about couples counseling or why they stop couples counseling, is they will say, I feel like the therapist was taking my husband's side. And sometimes that does happen. Sometimes you have a therapist who they just agree more with one of the partners than the other, but you're never supposed to show that because your goal is not to say, okay, this person's right and this person is wrong. Your goal is to help the couple. So it doesn't really matter what your opinion is on who is right and who is wrong, and how in the world is the couple gonna trust that you're completely neutral and not biased when you're getting paid off. But what's funny is that they were both paying her off.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

They were both paying her off, and it's funny because actually she in a weird way kind of made it a little therapeutic because she made it the center of the session, right? She did. She got she kind of got herself in a pickle because, like, you know, she accepted money and he thinks that she's gonna, you know, give him his outcome, and the the wife did the same thing, but uh she like they both were like, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

And well, yes, okay, so for being in that situation, she handled it as best as she could and bring it out on table. So if you ever find yourself in a situation with therapy where you feel like you have crossed the boundary or you did do something, I mean, obviously, people are probably not doing this, but you did do something that you think could really impact their relationship, it always should be just brought to the forefront. So I actually agree that her just being like, Well, yeah, let's talk about this. Y'all did this, like I'm just gonna be honest about it. That's what should be happening. So if you're in a situation where you feel like every time we bigger about something, I feel like the therapist takes my husband's side. Even if that's not the actual reality, if you're feeling that way, bring it up. Bring it up and say it because there's no way to make that progress if you feel like, okay, this person's not gonna have my back, or like they don't have the best interest of us as a couple. Of course, bring it to the forefront. But yes, obviously, this therapist is incredibly unethical. You should not be accepting bribes from clients. I cannot imagine that I didn't watch a show, but that they're making much progress in couples counseling.

SPEAKER_06 7:38

So, like, what happens in a couple's therapy session when that trust is kind of broken?

SPEAKER_05 7:42

It's really tough. You know, bring it to the forefront and seeing if there is some sort of resolution, but it's hard because even when you bring something out like that, it's awkward. Like we're all humans. If someone is, you know, addressing a therapist and saying, Hey, I feel this way, you would hope that the therapist is skilled enough to be able to navigate that really tough conversation. But it can be really hard to take away that awkward feeling from the client. If you are feeling like you are stuck because you feel like the therapist is unethical or you feel like they are maybe siding with your partner, if bringing it up doesn't help, you find a new therapist. You know, it's not, it's not worth it to continue if you feel like it's not actually helping you. So find a new therapist. And hey, if you work with another therapist and you feel the same thing is happening, then maybe you do some introspection of like, all right, maybe it's me, maybe I'm I'm you know looking into this too much. But that's where talking it out can be really helpful because what other areas of your life could this also be happening in? But yeah, if you feel like you've crossed that line where like boundaries are broken, this is not going to be effective anymore, just find a new therapist.

SPEAKER_06 8:48

This scene is so fitting for Ozark because it's like trust is the most central like part of a therapeutic relationship, and both of them, the main characters, just go completely the other direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

You have to admit it's such good TV. It's great. It was genius working on it.

SPEAKER_06 9:05

Oh, when she pulls up in the Lamborghini, I'm like, this is this is hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 9:09

And these are obviously two pieces that were clipped together, but I'm sure when you're watching the show and you're seeing it actually play out, I'm sure it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

Very, very funny.

SPEAKER_05 9:17

So okay, clip number two is from the show Shrinking.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Want therapist Gabby or friend Gabby first? Friend?

unknown 9:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Derek, you are an incredible person. You're kind, you're loyal. Now I'm gonna switch into therapist Gabby. I have had so many married patients that are exactly where you are, and honestly, this stuff never comes out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

Oh, so many opinions about that. I love the chair spin. She's like, Alright, I'm a therapist now.

SPEAKER_06 9:44

Alright, alright, therapist time.

SPEAKER_05 9:46

Okay. Why was that scene so wrong?

SPEAKER_06 9:49

Well, I, you know, I and I I haven't watched this show really, so I don't know all the backstory, but I mean, just right out the gate, there's like a door relationship here, which is like, you know, friend and therapist, and those two typically like just don't mix.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

Yes. You should never see your friend as a therapist.

SPEAKER_06 10:07

And it's funny because we've actually had friends and family like, you know, want to work with modern therapy, and the answer is just like not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

Yeah, it's funny. We we do have lines with that. Like, obviously, I would never be their therapist, but even I've had, you know, people in my very, very immediate family or your very immediate family who have wanted to work with modern therapy. And even that, I'm like, it just can't be unbiased because we're gonna have our therapist working with you. Like, that's weird, right? It's like, oh, like that's Cassie's whoever. It's it's it's too close for comfort and like they know us professionally. So to go into having a relationship with a client that's also super related to us, now like a friend, yeah, no problem. A distant relative, yeah, no problem at all. But yeah, I have always felt that way that I don't want to put our therapist in a position where they feel like I don't know, they have to be a certain way because we have that pre-established relationship. And then is that really going to be helping like our family in the long run?

SPEAKER_07 11:07

Right.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

But being your friend and being your therapist is just not a good idea. You have to think about when you are in certain situations, you know, that person is there and they're seeing you in all these different lights, and they're seeing you as a friend. They're not like we talk about being completely neutral, they're not going to be completely neutral. And then also, are there things in therapy you're really gonna bring up when you know this person is friends with my husband, they're friends with my sister. Maybe I'm not gonna disclose this information to them or I'm not gonna talk about this problem with them because they know all the backstories and it's a little too close for comfort. So go to your friends for advice. I would not go to them as a therapist.

SPEAKER_06 11:47

Yeah, and I, you know, that there's two very clear separate roles here. Like a friend, you know, wants to take your side, they give advice. They whereas a therapist are very professional, you know, they're there to be objective, they're there to challenge you sometimes in ways that are very uncomfortable, you know, potentially. So, you know, it's a very clear conflict of conflict of interest. I would be curious if, like, like was she friends with him before they got into therapy, or like were did they build a friendship in therapy? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

I think this might be his first session, if I'm not mistaken. Okay, got it. But there are times where I would say there can be exceptions to the rules, and that's if you know there are some people who live in really, really small towns, like small that it's hard for us to even conceptualize. Yes, yes, where maybe there's one therapist in the town locally, and they're also related to someone and they're also friends with someone. If that is the only care that you're able to get, then that's probably the only time that I would say it is acceptable. And as long as you just acknowledge, hey, you're my friend, but here's what I'm looking for in a therapist, and you kind of just deal with it from that aspect, set the boundaries up front, definitely could be better than not getting care at all. So there are certain situations where like that could be, you know, something that comes up, but yeah, not something that I would seek out, probably especially if you're in an area where you can just get care from somebody else. Alright, clip number three is from Goodwill Hunting.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

This is not your fault. Look at me, son. It's not your fault. I know, it's not your fault. I know, no no, you don't. It's not your fault. I know, it's not your fault. All right, it's not your fault. It's not your fault.

unknown 13:45

It's not your fault.

SPEAKER_07 14:04

It's a great movie, good one.

SPEAKER_05 14:05

Yeah, it really is. That was a little bit more emotional than the other scenes that we were showing.

SPEAKER_07 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

There's some really good stuff there. Yeah. And it's that one line that he kept saying, it's not your fault, it's not your fault. The backstory, if you don't know, is that the main character who is the client who ultimately ends up crying, he was abused by a foster parent. And this is a therapist that he was seeing. And right before this scene, he had asked the therapist, like, have you ever experienced this? And he's like, Oh, yeah, I've worked with people who have like gone through this port. And he's like, No, have you ever experienced this? And the therapist is like, Yeah, like my dad was an alcoholic and he was physically abusive, so they kind of bonded over that disclosure, and then this scene happened. So there was something about him repeating that phrase over and over because it's like the client was hearing it, but he wasn't really getting it. And I'm sure he probably had so many other people in the past tell him it's not his fault, but there was something about really pressing it that made him feel okay, I can actually like I can actually hear this and feel this for the first time.

SPEAKER_06 15:12

And I just want to give props to the therapist because the therapist like caught that and like knew that like intellectually, maybe like the client had heard it before, they knew it, but the therapist knew that there was something deeper there that needed to be broken, and he kept he kept at it, which I think you know obviously led to a big emotional release.

SPEAKER_07 15:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

And of course, this is a beautiful scene, but I just want to point out just to play devil's advocate, that of course this is Hollywood, and I think with new therapists, they go into sessions and they almost expect it to be like this. I'm gonna have that one line, and that one line is gonna get my client, and then they're gonna break down and all their trauma is gonna come out, and we're gonna come out on the other side, and it's gonna be this huge, big healing moment. And these types of moments, while they definitely do happen, I think that they are more rare. And what you usually see is that kind of slow, like, you know, they're kind of coming to realizations about things. There's definitely things that are emotional coming out, but it's not all that common that you're gonna have a huge breakdown like this in a therapy session, and it's not all that common for a therapist just to have like that one right thing to say that is gonna get a client. So yeah, I do think that watching this as a therapist or even a potential client.

SPEAKER_06 16:30

Clients, yeah. I think clients have these expectations.

SPEAKER_05 16:32

Your expectation might be a little off, like, oh, my therapist is not causing me to hysterically cry.

SPEAKER_06 16:37

Are they a bad therapist? What's wrong with them?

SPEAKER_05 16:39

And it's like, well, and like listen, it does happen sometimes.

SPEAKER_06 16:42

So out of out of out of your your history of you know therapy work, how many times has a moment like that happened? Put it like percentage-wise, maybe just as like a rough kind of that someone broke down that deeply? Yeah. Trying to get a sense for like how rare we think it is.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Maybe if I had to put a percentage, maybe like 0.5%. Yeah. Like it's pretty rare. I mean, we work with clients on a weekly basis. So it's it's not like obviously what he was doing like with this particular thing, like he was there because of like a really serious trauma. So maybe if you're working in a different type of environment, like yes.

SPEAKER_06 17:25

It depends on what the client has.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

We do see clients that have severe trauma and we do work with really deep issues, but we also see people every single week. So maybe if it was more in an intensive, like we're only seeing you eight times and we're addressing these big issues, then maybe you might see more of that. But I think just like the nature of it, like I it would not be typical for something like this to happen in a week. It's kind of like my thought process. People crying now, that percentage is way higher. People crying, having emotional moments, of course, like yeah, that of course happens, and you know, that is way higher, but like a breakdown of this extent, it's just probably not all that common.

SPEAKER_06 18:02

Yeah, yeah. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_05 18:03

All right, clip number four. Okay, it's funny. So this is from The Sopranos, and I can't even tell you how many people have said to me, You need to watch the Sopranos because they have all these therapy scenes and you would love it. And I just cannot watch gritty shows. And I know you make fun of me for it because I'm such a baby, but I just can't, I'm too emotional to watch the really gritty shows and the shows that have like cursing and people getting hurt. Like, if I'm watching like something on like NBC and someone gets punched in the face, like it replays in my head for like weeks after that. Like, it's a problem. So I cannot watch this kind of stuff. And I think because it was recommended so many times, I think we tried to watch it. Yeah, I don't think I got halfway into the first episode and I was like, nope.

SPEAKER_06 18:46

I've I've watched a good part of The Sopranos, but I think you are the type of person that you use TV as like a tool to like check out and like you know, kind of like, you know, unwind. So, you know, any shows that are gonna elevate your cortisol are the ones that you're not gonna use, right? I get stressed.

SPEAKER_05 19:07

Well, I hope everyone appreciates that I did comb through a lot of therapy sessions for the podcast. For the podcast and the sopranos. I did not watch a show, full disclosure, but I did pull some clips. Um, and this clip I ultimately picked because I really like, but it's funny because even this clip, like, I had to like cut it up a little bit because there was some colorful choices of words and you know, things that were a little intense. I'm like, we're not playing that on the podcast. We are not an explicit podcast. But I did pull out what I think is a really interesting scene. Alright, let's check it out. So here we go.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

She's inflicted serious psychic injuries that are still there. Your father, the gangster, tough guy. Did he protect you kids from this borderline mother? What is it?

SPEAKER_09 19:52

Little snacks with all for me to take on.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

I haven't pushed you enough to confront these things. Let me try to kill you and you gave her airline tickets. Anthony.

SPEAKER_05 20:12

So, like I said, I did have to cut out some colorful language, but to sum it up, Anthony is not happy about this.

SPEAKER_06 20:18

So wait, wait, can you imagine being like his therapist? Like, I would be so I would be so nervous about like confronting someone like that, you know?

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Well, what's funny is so obviously for copyright reasons, we have to keep these clips really short. And, you know, some some of them might even put the voice a little faster so that we're not infringing on anything. But the full clip of this scene before this, she actually said to him, I have been really fearful of you, and I don't want to be fearful of you anymore, and I don't want that to take over our therapy sessions. And so I guess at that point she decided I'm going to be more confrontational and I'm going to address these things that I haven't addressed with you before. Couple thoughts on that. What is your initial take on that?

SPEAKER_06 21:03

Oh man. I mean, it's just like besides being scared of a mob guy. I think, like, you know, she just understands the importance of those things, and the care for the client superseded her fear of the client in that moment, right? Yes. Yeah, which I thought was pretty interesting. Um, I noticed that it it didn't go very well, right, right, which sometimes happens when you call clients or confront clients on things that they don't want to hear, but that's part of going to therapy, right? And that's why they call therapy hard work, is because it takes an extreme level of accountability and the ability to look into yourself and um make changes, right? And not everybody wants to see that. He clearly needs some time to see that. Um, so he left, you know, and that happens sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

What are your thoughts on the therapists who feel like they have to be super confrontational like that versus the Therapists who are like, I'm gonna wait this out and let you come to me when you're ready to talk about more difficult things.

SPEAKER_06 22:07

I think this is a really important point because confrontation is like it's a tool, not a personality, right? And I think like any good therapist is gonna strategically use confrontation. And so you as a therapist, you have to be able to read that, right? You have to be able to read those subtle cues of like, is this c is the client ready to hear this? Like, how far can I push the client without you know bringing them over the edge to the point where they're gonna like walk out or disengage, right? Or or that rapport trust is gonna be broken. So I think it's kind of like a a little bit of an art and a balancing act. And um, you know, as a therapist, we have to read those situations and use it, use it as a tool.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

And it definitely depends on how long you've been working with a client. Would I confront someone's second session? Probably not. And you have to know after working with them for a certain amount of time what their personality is and what they would respond well to that. In reading her facial expressions and the way that she was saying things, it was almost coming off kind of aggressive. Like she was almost angry, and maybe she was. Like, obviously, there's a lot of built-up stuff. Like you said, this is a very complex relationship. This is not her typical therapy session, but it almost came off kind of angry. So that I didn't really love.

SPEAKER_06 23:16

And like this is something that therapists are really trained on. Like in in school, they go over this quite a bit is like how to gracefully challenge clients, right? Without coming off like accusatory. Yes, you know, so I think like that's also an art in itself is like, how do you say a statement that needs to challenge a client without it coming across as, you know, rude or aggressive, you know? So right.

SPEAKER_05 23:40

And I think it also opens the conversation of if like this is obviously a little bit intense. Like, I probably wouldn't confront a client this this way. How long do you think it's okay to work with a therapist who you feel like is not confronting you at all, not challenging you, not pushing you when you feel ready to be pushed? Where do you feel like that line is?

SPEAKER_06 24:05

Yeah, I mean, I feel like this happens a lot sometimes, you know. Even at modern therapy, sometimes it'll happen. And uh therapists all have different styles, and you know, if you're a client that like wants change, like sometimes that that confrontation is like a little necessary. And you know, we've had clients say say, like, you know, sometimes like I want less of I'm going to talk to somebody and like you know, release or whatever, and I I'm gonna want somebody that like is gonna call me out on that, you know, on my stuff. And so I think um it it all just kind of depends on you know what the client's looking for. And uh I think if you get to the point where you're in therapy and you're not noticing external changes in your life, maybe it's time to like think maybe I need to be challenged a little bit more, you know.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

Yeah, and how we brought up before that even addressing it with your therapist, like, hey, I I feel like maybe I could be pushed in this area a little bit more, I feel like I'm lacking here and I could really use that. But yeah, some therapists are just not like that. I have never been, unless really, really necessary or depending on the situation, and in couples counseling a little bit more, but in individual counseling, I've never really been a super confrontational therapist. It's just not my style. Yeah, and I think that I am just naturally a lot more gentle. And if I think there's something that needs to be addressed, like I will still address it, but I don't think that I would, I would never be confrontational like that. I would be more of like, okay, I keep hearing you say this. Do you think maybe we should explore this? Or do you think there's a reason that we're avoiding talking about this? I think I would more talk about the reasons we're not going there than I think I would just like drive us there, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 25:52

You know, in a s in like a productive therapy session, the the client actually drives a lot of it. And you know, it's like we work on like what the client wants to work on. And if you are the type of person that has had an experience in the past with a therapist where you felt like you were just showing up to chat with a friend, right? And that wasn't effective for you, your therapist 100% wants to hear that before they work with you.

SPEAKER_07 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:16

You know, because that's gonna help shape how they're gonna, how they're gonna kind of guide, guide and gently, you know, direct the session.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

Definitely. Yeah, so it can be a little confrontational, but maybe not that confrontational.

SPEAKER_06 26:27

You would have toned it down a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

And that is probably the most of the sopranos that I will ever watch. Okay, last clip we have is from Ted Lasso.

SPEAKER_09 26:36

I'm actually feeling a lot better, so I don't even know if this is necessary, really.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Make yourself comfortable.

unknown 26:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 26:43

Like, sit. Like sit here. Oh, noisy. You know what? I'll go on couch. There we go. I love that. Hey, who am I?

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Why don't you tell me what happened the other night?

SPEAKER_09 26:55

Yeah, I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Yeah, I don't want to do this. I'm out of here. That was great. All right. Initial thoughts.

SPEAKER_06 27:05

Initial thoughts is like, you know, he's just like not ready for therapy. And like some people are. I think like there's this thing that happens where like, and actually we'll we'll see this a lot where people will reach out and they'll be like, hey, I want to get started with therapy. And then like we respond to them to get them set up and you know, do all the logistical stuff, and we just don't hear from them. And I feel like that like what we experience here is the electronic equivalent of like what happened there. It's like you have that, oh, I want to go. He showed up to the session, which is great, you know.

SPEAKER_05 27:38

But yeah, and there's a lot of people who they do show up to their first session and you don't hear from them again, or maybe they show up to the first session, they leave for a little bit, and then they come back later because they are not ready for it. There are times where you want to work on things in therapy, but sometimes other things in your life need to be in a place where it makes sense. And like even talking about confronting things before, that's why confronting things because the therapist feels like they want to talk about it is not always a good idea because you don't know what that client is going through and like if that is good timing for that. Because when you are really working on healing, especially with deep trauma, it can bring up a lot of stuff at first. And sometimes it gets way harder before it gets easier. And if you're not in a place or you don't have the support system to do that, not the best idea, right? Someone who's doing a virtual session on their lunch break, maybe there's a reason they're not going into their deep trauma, right? Because they don't want to do that and then log on to a meeting in an hour. So it kind of reminds me of that of a little bit of you do have to meet the client where they're at. And I do think later in the series he does get into therapy and it works for him, and that's great. But maybe this is where he needed to be for the first session.

SPEAKER_06 28:52

Yeah, and I want to like point out like I, you know, it's he got back into therapy and everything, but like if that did end up being his only, you know, experience, and you know, that's not that's not a failure, actually. The client showed up to a therapy session, yeah, you know, and that's a that was a big step, and maybe that's just like step one, but it makes taking that step one again in the future a little easier.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

Absolutely. You know, and what they don't show here, and obviously this is a condensed clip, but there was not really a whole lot of attempts to build rapport with him. He's clearly physically uncomfortable. He's jumping from the chair to the couch, he's kind of just like mumbling different things, like he's clearly very uncomfortable being there. Yeah, and she's just like, sit down.

SPEAKER_06 29:35

Just take a seat. Yeah, like it's okay. It felt very cold.

SPEAKER_05 29:38

Let's talk about what happened. And he's like, All right, I'm done. Like maybe if she was like, Oh wow, the weather is really beautiful, or oh, I see you jumping from couch to couch. Like, which one did you like better? Yeah, just building that rapport. I think sometimes therapists and sometimes clients feel like they need to just like jump into things right away. And actually, when we say building rapport, what we really mean is just building a positive, trusting relationship with the client. And sometimes that means talking about things that have nothing to do with therapy for a little bit, and that's okay. We're incorporating a little bit of that into every session. Some people, you can work with them for two years, and they still need that first five or 10 minutes of just like catching up, chit-chatting, and like feeling comfortable, and then they can really dive into the deep work, where other people right away can maybe do that. So I did pick up on that a little bit. It's like she could have been a little warmer and fuzzier and maybe acknowledged how uncomfortable he was and just like allowed it to be a little friendlier for the first couple minutes before she dove right into everything.

SPEAKER_06 30:39

Yeah, 100%. The relationship is everything, it's one of the most important things. You're not gonna make meaningful progress in therapy without actually liking your therapist and feeling comfortable and safe to open up, you know.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

Yeah, yeah. And I think that is something about in-person therapy. I think sometimes it can take a little longer to be comfortable because you're in a new environment. You're in an uncomfortable environment. You have someone like directly face to face with you, and and that that can be not not everyone loves that right away, right? So I think meet the client where they're at. If you're noticing they're having those physical sensations or they're having these kind of reactions, it's okay to A, acknowledge it, or B, you know, talk about something else and just let them chill a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

Okay. Well, that was so fun. I loved these clips.

SPEAKER_06 31:26

Yeah, that's all we'll have to do this again sometime. Yes.