Following someone else's script with Unbound Branding

The fastest way to burn out isn’t working too hard. It’s building a business that doesn’t feel like you anymore. 

I’m Kari Lowe, and I’m joined by McKenna Dodge and Charissa Higgins, the founders of Unbound Branding Agency, for a real talk on personal branding, brand alignment, and the quiet cost of following someone else’s “proven” formula. We dig into the moment they sat in front of a whiteboard while experts mapped out an efficient scaling plan that looked genius on paper and felt completely wrong in their bodies. That story opens a bigger conversation about self-trust for women in business and what happens when you outsource your authority to coaches, trends, and endless marketing advice. 

McKenna and Charissa break down how to spot the warning signs early: resentment, over-consuming instead of creating, watering down your ideas to make them “marketable,” and confusing discomfort with true misalignment. We also get practical with their brand strategy framework using the tree metaphor: brand roots (values, beliefs, story), brand alignment (offers, messaging, platforms), and brand embodiment (voice, content, visual identity). If you’ve ever thought your brand is a marketing problem when it’s really an identity and clarity problem, this will land. 

If you’re ready to stop “should-ing” on yourself and build authentic messaging that actually fits your life, hit play. Then subscribe, leave a review, and share this with a friend who needs her voice back.

Connect with Charissa and McKenna here: https://unboundbrandagency.com/home

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Post-production editing by SoulFlow Studios -  https://soulflowstudios.com/

Transcript

Welcome To She Ignites

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome to She Ignites, the podcast where we burn the rule book, ditch the shoulds, and light up the lives we were meant to lead. I'm your host, Carrie Lowe, candlemaker, confidence dealer, and your favorite fire starter. Around here, we speak boldly, dream wildly, and show up messy and magical. If you're done playing small and ready to own your own spark, you're in the right damn place. Now let's get lit.

Meet The Unbound Branding Founders

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Hey Firestarters. Today I am introducing you to McKenna Dodge and Carissa Higgins. They are brand alignment and strategy consultants with Unbound Branding Agency. They empower online entrepreneurs to break the mold on what personal branding has to be or look like and to create an unbound brand in full alignment with your values, beliefs, and purpose-driven mission. Their passion is creating spaces where women are empowered to show up fully in their business without trying to be someone else, following the shoulds and have-to's that some guru said your brand has to be, and forcing themselves to be or do or have something that isn't truly you. So today's conversation is about something I think so many women experience at some point in their life or business, realizing they've been following a script that was never actually theirs. You start out trusting yourself, you build something that feels aligned, and then suddenly there are a thousand voices telling you how to do it better, how to position yourself, how to speak, how to sell, how to build a brand. And before you know it, you're successful on paper, but something about it feels heavy. My guests today know that feeling firsthand. Okay, McKenna and Carissa are the founders of Unbound Branding Agency, and their work is centered around helping entrepreneurs stop outsourcing their authority and start building brands that actually feel like they're truth.

The Retreat That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_03 2:38

So before we get started into branding and messaging, I want to start with a moment. You both realized that something wasn't sitting right in your business. What was happening that made you step back and say, wait, this doesn't actually feel like us anymore.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

There's a couple, a couple stories we could tell. I think the one that I want to start with, because it's like it it hit me the hardest, was probably when we uh we went to a retreat in Dallas with one of our business coaches. And we had been operating out of Learn Earn Impact at the time, and we were trying to figure out why that didn't feel right with us. Like Learn Earn Impact, there's something about that that just doesn't light us up anymore. Um, because we how long have we were we Learn Earn Impact? Two years?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Uh, I think it was probably two or three years, I think, operating with the original founder of the platform.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Okay, so two to three years. We had been that name, and in the beginning it was like, oh yeah. And then we solely felt just the only way to describe it is the disconnection with the name. So when we went to um the retreat with our business coach, we were very freaking excited because we had VIP day with them, and we were gonna actually have them sit down and help us find clarity and how we can, I guess now I would say, uh, evolve our business to where we wanted it to be. Um, but really kind of restructure it to make sure that we were still excited about the work we're doing and how we were serving our clients. So we sat down that day during VIP and they had like the big whiteboard out and they had all the markers, and they were just mapping out everything for us. Uh, you know, our offer suite and ascension plans and all that. Oh, yes. Yeah. So we were so excited to see this finally. And as they were talking, they were talking about, you know, needing micro offers and needing uh different platforms to hold, you know, these meetings and then have monthly meetings here, and then have like there were so many little ascensions, and we're like, but that's really not what we want because that's really taking away from the depth of what we want to give our clients this whole time that they are like mind mapping, and they're they're it was genius, right? In their minds, this was genius, and it made sense to them. I mean, they have been doing this for so long, they're the experts. And I look at McKenna the whole time, and I'm just like, uh, this is feeling more and more and more and more like not us. I looked at McKenna's face and she described it so well. Uh, like when it's like a flower and then slowly wilting, it's like the the camera is speeding it up, and you just see this flower slowly wilting. That was McKenna. And I was like, oh shit, McKenna's feeling that I'm feeling that. Like, whoa, we need to stop this. So we both, I think McKenna spoke up first.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, it was well, and it's so it can be so hard. Like it can be so challenging when we feel like we're in the room with people who know better than we do, who are, you know, they have that expertise. They've been in the industry for decades, you know. It's like people pay, you know, tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars to work with these coaches to, you know, get answers and guidance and those kinds of things. And the I think the biggest thing for us was the way that they were essentially mapping out how we could scale our business and be more efficient. And so it was the micro offers, but it was also essentially pulling Carissa and I apart and being like, well, McKenna's skills are this and this and this. So she should host calls that only focus on that. And Carissa's gifts are this and this and that. And so she should host calls that focus on that. And your clients will just pick whichever call that they want to go to, but that way it doesn't require both coaches in the room at the same time for every single client, which obviously creates a bottleneck in, you know, timing if it requires both of us to be there for every single call. And I'm just like hearing this, and I'm like, but the thing that we hear most often from our clients is that the thing that they love the most and that they get the most value out of is the fact that both of us are in the same room at the same time. They can bring any and all questions and not have to be like, well, on at Tuesday at 4 p.m., I've got to be here for this question, and Thursday at 3:30, I've got to be like it just. And they were like, we love having the magic of Carissa and McKenna together in the same room at the same time. And they always comment on the magic that happens between Carissa and I in conversations, and we bounce off of each other, and you know, we hear different things in something that someone says when they're coaching with us, and we have different perspectives or ideas, or we can, you know, support each other's thoughts with analogies or examples or stuff like this. And so we're listening to these experts talk and talk and talk about efficiency and scaling and, you know, utilizing our best genius. Meanwhile, what I'm watching happen is them rip the very thing that all of our clients say is the most magical part of our genius completely out of the business and put it off to the side.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And I'm pretty sure I talked over somebody. I'm pretty sure I interrupted somebody, you know, one of the experts, because I was just like, I don't even remember exactly what I said, but I was like, honestly, this feels like moving away from everything that makes our business so unique, that makes the experience that our clients have with us so magical. It feels like we've just completely gone off the side of what Carissa and I actually do and why it's so powerful. And the things that are being mapped out on this board right now are all of the things that everybody else does that causes their clients to not get the magic that they talk about getting with us.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Yes, yes. And so I'm curious what their reception of that was. Did they understand and help you redesign? Or it's just like, hey, this is the way it should be because this is gonna make your business more efficient.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

They did understand in the end. I think that was that's the biggest learning lesson about actually speaking up and using your voice, even when you feel like, oh my gosh, you're gonna think that we don't know what we're talking about because they're the experts. We're this little branding agency that's only how many years in, and they're gonna look at us and be like, you don't know what you're talking about. Like we're the experts. So it took a uh level of courage to use both of our voices and say, actually, we don't want this. Like they kept saying, you're gonna be in the trenches, you're gonna attract needy clients, you're going to take you're you're gonna have to be personalized the whole way through, which is gonna take more time. And we're like, yeah, okay, we don't want to be in the trenches 100% of the time, but we want to, we want that depth, we want that personalization. We don't want to take that away, we want to be different. So this isn't about spreading out what we can give to people. We want to make sure that we are giving them our full undivided attention. And if that means we're staying together and we're creating a personalized program and we're only focusing on that, then that's what we want to do because that feels right in our heart. And we cannot give our clients what we want if you if we are doing what they gave us, like it would be impossible. So they did get it in the end, and they were giving us ideas, but it's it was the lesson of us using our voice and standing up for what we wanted, and we were like, holy shit, we walked in there as learn and impact, and we walked away with the idea of we're gonna become unbound branding agency. Like that was our moment. We're like, we don't have to follow all the strategies that everyone gives. What you have to do is trust yourself. Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

I love that, and I know it is, it is for sure. And I know I've been on so many calls like that where it seems like the experts are trying to take you to an automated space that takes the the human out of it, and when that's the type of business that we are in, it just doesn't make any sense. So I love that you um stood up and you know were very passionate about saying that's not what we want. But I'm curious, how did you feel about that? Did you have some anxiety around it because they're the so-called experts? Or did you just drive it home with your points and you know not have any fear

Choosing Depth Over Efficiency

SPEAKER_03 11:31

around it?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I it it was a combination, I think. So Carissa and I, the running joke is that we share a brain cell. Um, most of the time we're like finishing each other's sentences and picking up where each other left off. And, you know, it was me that said anything first. And uh just kind of rewinding, just a hair. Um, with regards to your last question around, you know, how what we shared was received, I think it was twofold. Part of it was working with coaches who didn't believe that they had every answer. Like we had intentionally chosen to work with mentors who listen and who care. And so it's not that they were mapping out all of this automation and stuff and like just pigeonholing us over here, and that is what just what, you know, thou shalt do this from now on, type of thing. It was like they were going down a path that they thought was correct. And until we waved the red flag and was like, hey, actually, this is not the direction we have gone off the trail, and this is like not, this is not us. So part of it was making sure that we were working with coaches and mentors who were interested in a collaborative process, not just a prescriptive process where they tell you what to do when you do it. So part number one there. And then part number two was it was us being willing to metaphorically stand up while we were sitting there on the floor like wilted flowers in front of the whiteboard. Um, it was being willing to like say something about it, and because we didn't just continue playing along, like feeling like, oh my God, this is so far from it, but we're just gonna keep playing along like this is the solution, because we stood up for it and was like, actually no, and not like in a like, oh well, that would be really great, but um, I'm gonna like completely soften my opinion because I wanted I I'm gonna defer to you, but I don't really agree with it. But like we didn't. And really it was uh me that spoke up first, where I was like, this is not the thing, actually. And um it it kind of triggered me just a little bit, and not like the typical, like triggered, like people, you know, associate in today's day and age, but it just like something sparked where I was just like, this is not it. This is we cannot, I will not, like it was like hitting a wall. And so for me, I wasn't like thinking back on it now, I wasn't nervous in the moment because I wasn't thinking it, I was feeling this is not it, red flag, done, stop, time out. And so I said something not like mean, but definitively firm, where I was like, this is not the trail that we are going to walk, because this is not what makes us so magical. And in retrospect, like had I been thinking more about it, like, yeah, I would have been intimidated as fuck. Say, like, actually, I think what you're doing is not for us to like, you know, multi-million dollar coaches type of thing. Right. Um, I picked up, I think, more nervousness from Carissa a little bit. Um, and again, not that it was bad, but it just like I was just I hit a wall of done and was like, I will not. And so, like, in a kind of a gave no fucks about what anybody else thought, because this is not our business model. This is not the magic of what we do, and this is not what's going to help us. Um, and I'll let Carissa share, you know, more about her her perspective, like after I kind of red-flagged like what came up for her.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, I I was relieved. I was definitely relieved when you said something because, like I said, you can sense someone's energy from a mile away, and especially when you've worked with someone for so long, I was like, Oh my gosh, like the it's just the the fun the passion and the excitement that she had the entire time we were there completely sucked out of her. And I was like, this was supposed to be the moment, right? So I remember I was super sweaty, like my armpits were sweating, my boobs were sweating, I was sweating as they're talking about this because I was like, is this what we have to do to be the business that we like set out to create? And it was like giving me fear and like almost resenting a business that we didn't even create yet. But I was like, I don't want to be in that. So I was really, really sweaty. I just remember I'm like, this is horrible. And when I feel things like that, I tend to ask a lot of questions because I am trying to understand where they're coming from. But every time I would ask another question, they'd answer it. And I think it would get to McKenna even more because they're going in more depth and like further away. And I'm just like, okay, I can't understand this. So I was grateful she spoke up. If McKenna didn't speak up, I would speak up. But I was very much in my like, this isn't right. You just feel it. Your whole body feels it when you go in a direction you don't want to be going. It's your instincts, and if you do not follow it, you're gonna be miserable.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Absolutely, absolutely. And then the pieces won't fit together and the success won't happen for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Right.

The Noise And The “Shoulds”

SPEAKER_03 17:11

So, with you coaching other women, I'm curious to see and know if you find that the women you work with feel pressure to follow, you know, that approved way of building a business because there is a model that is supposed to work for all of us, right? So, do you see that in the women that you work with?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Definitively so. There is so much noise, especially, you know, the the women we work with are have typically been in the online space for a while, you know, whether they're coaches or consultants or network marketers or, you know, um, whatever that they do, um, typically solo premiers, and there's just so much noise on social media about what you should be doing, what your business should look like, what your content or marketing strategy should be. And I think the thing that we end up saying the most is that, you know, to for our clients to stop shooting on themselves. And it does sound exactly like it's supposed to. Yeah. Like, because they just they feel like they have to follow the people that have so much conviction that this is the one winning strategy when in reality every strategy works. Every single one of them. Like, whether that is email marketing, whether that's social media, whether that's paid ads, whether that's growing in person, networking, hot, you know, uh vendor events, whether that's, you know, like there's so many email lists, blogs, YouTube channels, the whole shebang. Like there's so many different ways that we can build businesses in this day and age. And the thing is, is that every single one of them work. But what happens is we're like, oh, well, this is the thing. And we try it, sort of, but don't give it the full, like, let's, for lack of a better phrase, go to school for this. Like, let's truly put in the time, put in the effort, put in the investments to really truly learn and master this thing. Most women, you know, give it a good effort, but if it doesn't work fast enough, they're on to the next thing and they have the next person in their ear or in their social media feed or popping up in their ads, being like, oh, well, you're doing that. That's so 2020. This is the new, you know, like this is the new. Here's how Instagram has updated, and here's the trends, and here's what you need to do, and you need to have an email list, and you need to have a podcast, and you need to have fucking underwater basket weaving or whatever the fuck. Like, just so much stuff. And if we haven't truly become anchored in who we are, what we value and believe our story and experiences and the impact that we want to create in the world, which, by the way, is the definition of personal branding as we see it at Unbound Branding Agency. It's becomes so easy for our vision to become clouded of where we're trying to go. And almost thinking, like, if you were looking at the North Star and that's your alignment, that's where you want to go, that's what you want to create, that these big old clouds of everybody else's opinions and ideas and shoulds and marketing strategies, and you know, you should be doing this, that, or the other thing, roll in and completely cloud our vision. And then we kind of start going in a tailspin because we're like, we can't find and re-anchor into where we were trying to go to begin with. And we start chasing every little shiny thing, looking for that North Star that we can't see anymore, because we allowed all of these other clouds of everybody else's shit to cloud the vision. Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I have to add to that because what you just said uh in real time with a current client right now, we've heard probably four times uh as we're working through like her identity and what she actually wants to say, and the offers and and talks she wants to put out there, she has said I have to switch my mindset and unlearn the things that I have learned. Because us being the mirror, we are basically, you know how we work. Like we're the mirror, and we we show you what you said. Yeah, we what you said you wanted, what your vision was, what your values are. We hear it, it's all there, but then you're still showing up in this vision, running through these values with what this guru told you. And there's a that's where the disconnect comes from. So she has said I needed to have that mindset shift to fully see what my brand stands for and what I actually want to say. So it's every every single time, and like uh McKenna was saying, the way we see branding, that a lot of people don't see it this way, but it's not something that you do, and it's not even something that you have. Branding is the living, breathing embodiment of who you are, what you believe and value, your experiences and your story that led you there, and the way you want to impact the world through your offers, right? So we have to make sure that women are coming with their most truest, as I don't, I can't think of the other word, another word to say it, but their truest whys and visions and stories and what they actually want in this world because it has to start with you first.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Ever since yes.

Signs You Stopped Trusting Yourself

SPEAKER_03 22:49

So one thing that you know I know that you all have have talked about is outsourcing your authority, and so I think so many of us as women do that without even realizing it, right? So how and this is I think this question is going to be perfect for a woman that is listening that has a business and one that does not, um, and is just trying to find her way. So how can you tell? How can someone tell when they have stopped trusting themselves?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

I think one, I mean, one of the biggest things that I know through personal and business is when you start to resent something. When you start to resent something, something's not right. And I think it's worth you looking at why am I resenting this? Why am I why am I not doing it? And in most cases, it always comes back to because you're doing something that someone said you should do, or is the best way, or is the right way, or is the most magnetic or sellable or scalable, or the right mom way, whatever it is, and sort of you. I I think that that's when it's a good sign that you are now outsourcing your authority, you're outsourcing or outsourcing your voice, and you yeah, you're stuck, like what's wrong with me, right? So if you feel that resentment, you gotta look into it. What am I actually resenting? Which adds another layer to now I have to be honest with myself, right? Super, super honest. I that's one example, and I know there's more, but that was the first one that came up. McKenna, do you have one? I can come back to another one too.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah, so I think I think the resentment shows up as a long-term symptom, if you will, in that you start noticing the resentment, and when you dig deeper, that's where you find the lack of alignment or the lack of self-trust or things. I think more in the short term, like the thing that I notice most with our clients, um, typically more towards the beginning of when they first start working with us, or even just women in general, you know, in life that I run into or at networking groups or whatever, that when they lead more with what they've been told than what they actually believe. And this can be in strategy, you know, like marketing or growing their business or whatever. But I think it can also be in personal life, like when I firmly believe that there's a difference between being uncomfortable and being misaligned. And we have to figure out what that feels like in our bodies for each of us, because it's going to be a little bit different. And they they tend to have very similar or overlapping feelings. Where, you know, we're, we're, we're nervous, we're uncertain, we're like, I'm kind of excited about this, but also I'm kind of low-key, like a little scared of this type of thing. And figuring out like the difference between misalignment for you versus discomfort, is this uncomfortable because it's new and I'm excited about it, but I'm nervous about the unknown? Or am I looking at something that actually rubs up against or flies in the face of something that I value or believe at the deepest level of myself? And what we find is that women who feel misalignment, but they, or unalignment, but they misidentify it as discomfort and they do it anyway. That's where the resentment starts bubbling. But it's not at the point of resentment that the lack of trust happened. It's that back here at that moment where you felt like something was off, but you just told yourself, oh, well, the experts know best, or oh, my mother knows best, or like whoever the fuck told you to do whatever, that you decided that even though it didn't feel right, it didn't sit right. And more so than just a like, oh, it's I'm a little nervous because it's new, but like actually this doesn't feel right, but you did it anyway because someone else told you, or even sometimes because you told you, but almost thinking about like, you know, the the little voice in your mind that sometimes isn't always yours. Sometimes that's, you know, a handed down opinion of something that you were taught, you know, as a cater, from a parent or from a coach or whoever. And to Carissa's point, with the example she used of one of our um more recent clients, where she talked about she'd actually hired branding and marketing people before working with us. And she's like, I paid way more. I worked with them for a way shorter amount of time for the investment that I put in. And she's like, honestly, I'm having to unlearn everything that they taught me because it forced her into this cookie-cutter mold rather than allowing her to fully truly express herself and her thoughts and her ideas. And in the beginning of working with her, the biggest thing that we noticed that indicated to us that she had lost a lot of her self-trust was because she didn't trust herself to answer the questions about how she felt about something. She would defer back, or even like ideas that she had. She was like, Well, let me check with Chat GPT to see what's desirable in the market. Let me ask Chat GPT, you know, what the market demand is for this thing or how profitable this is, or, you know, well, how does how does, you know, co-pilot or Claude or whatever her tool of choice was on any given day? It was outsourcing the answers that we were intentionally asking her because we wanted her answers. We don't give two shits like what AI thinks or what your coach that sucked, honestly, from five years ago. Like, we don't care what they think about marketing or what you're passionate about. We're asking what you client Sally Sue is passionate about. And if the default reaction is instead of answering from the heart, is to look left or right and what are other people doing? Let me check social media, let me ask AI, let me like, ooh, like hem and ha over like what is the correct answer versus what is the true answer from my heart, regardless of if it's correct on paper or not.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Right. That links back to one more that I have that I strongly believe in. And the the idea, like McKenna had said, you know, running everything through this filter. She had these brilliant ideas, but then she had to run it through this filter and figure out well, does my audience want to hear this? Is this marketable? Is this different? Is somebody else talking about it? Like every idea has to run through and then it gets all watered down when the main idea was the thing. So, what happens when you are outsourcing your authority or your voice is that you stop creating. And this can be in life, and this can be in business and motherhood and relationships, everything like you stop creating and you just get stuck consuming. Consuming, consuming, consuming, consuming. Why are you consuming so much? Because you're not trusting that idea, because you're not trusting that thought, because you're not trusting the authority that you have through your lived experiences and the lens of how you see the world. And people just keep running it through the filter. And I'm just like, no, that's that's not the true authentic self that we all want to see. We want you to trust yourself and stop outsourcing everything that comes up in business and in life. You know, stop consuming for the answer. It's not out there, the answer's not out there, and we all get stuck doing it. Like I'm guilty of doing that, right? I have to remind myself the answers in your heart.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, you're right. And the the last part of that, that it's the consumption, and it's also the self-critique and the judgment. Because, and especially for women, I notice way more than men that were so terrified, paranoid, worried, anxious about what everyone else is going to think about whatever decision that we make, whether it's in our business, our personal life, relationships, raising kids, like whatever situation that I feel like when I see women that are so worried about is it too much? Is it enough? Am I, am I, you know, just so enough? Is it smart enough? Is it pretty enough? Is it educated enough? Am I well articulate enough? Are my, you know, is my backdrop clean enough or whatever, like literally anything and everything, then it's like when we end up becoming, like we're we're always our own biggest critics, like that's just kind of, you know, humanity type of thing. But when we take that to a point of not showing up with what we truly value or believe, because we are too worried how it's going to be perceived by other people on the other end, and not just trusting that if we put what we genuinely love and believe out there with the context of why we love it or believe it or value it or whatever, like we're so worried that people are going to misinterpret it. But it's like, well, maybe they're misinterpreting it because you tried to water it down to make it palatable, and then they didn't understand the actual heart behind what you were saying or doing or believing. And so when women, you know, go from not just being their own biggest critics, but changing what they would have otherwise done because the self-judgment got so loud that they didn't move forward on what they actually desired because they were worried about the strategy or the perception, that tells me that there's a self-trust issue, that they don't trust their own voice to share the message that's truly on their heart because they're too worried about making sure that it's palatable for everybody else rather than being their truest expression.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Yes, yes. I know that when I have ideas that come into my mind and I'm like, oh my gosh, and I like get so passionate and excited about it, an offer, or you know, whether it be a candle or something that I'm going to create that's a product or an offer or just a conversation that I want to have, whether it be on a podcast or just in a reel or something. I I stop myself and I was finding that I was stopping myself, and I was thinking, but okay, but I could say it and this might happen, or I could say it and this might happen, and like this person might message me and say, Well, that's ridiculous, or this person might criticize me. And so I know that I personally started realizing that when I didn't just maintain my excitement and go and stay down that path, that I was listening to outside people. And whether they were physically speaking it to me or not, or they did 20 years ago, that was still in my mind. And one of the things that I found that has served me the best is there have been so many, whether I'm it's a coach or just a business mentor that you follow, that so many people say, okay, you need to follow the people in your industry that are doing the exact same thing you're doing, see what works for them, and use your words to do the same thing. And so, of course, I did that. And then the further I got into it, I'm like, this just doesn't make any sense because that's not my voice. That's not my fucking words, that's not my fucking story. And it works for them great, but I need something that's gonna work for me. So the best thing that I did was stop following every single one of those people so that I don't even see them anymore. And I know that that's tough because we also want to know are we in alignment with this industry? But my customers are not their customers. And, you know, my voice is gonna find the right people. And sometimes I still struggle with that voice and knowing what I want to share because there's a lot up here. But I think that is one of, you know, one of the best things that I did, and you know, you speak to it as well. But I want to know like how long ago was that event that you attended that they were mapping this plan out for you that wasn't going to work.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Uh actually almost exactly two years.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Okay. So what has changed for your business since you have decided to trust yourselves and follow that path?

What Changed After They Chose Alignment

SPEAKER_03 36:36

And I know that, you know, this has to lead and spill over into your personal life as well. Um, for anyone that's listening, I would love to hear what has happened um, you know, in your life and in your business since that happened.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

I think for me, the pressure of trying to like the the whole setting up the ascension plan was really like a lot of it was a lot of creation, it was a lot of time, and it was a lot of offers that every time we created, we were kind of excited about it, and then it was like, no, this isn't this isn't the thing. So it actually took a lot of pressure off of we need to create all this shit to be successful. To how can we focus on this one offer? Like kind of letting giving us the permission slip to be like, we're having one offer, yes, it's gonna be high ticket, yes, it's gonna be super personal, yes, it's gonna be intimate, yes, it's gonna be long term, right? But that's what we want. So it took this huge pressure off of trying to create busy work for us when it actually was just going to give us like, yeah, get new people in the door, I guess. But what would that be doing to us? It would be taking away our focus on what we actually truly wanted, right? So it it took that pressure off for me and to just go in on that offer, which is actually that offer embodies my entire brand. Like it's easy to talk about that offer because it's like this is how I operate in life, this is how I operate in business, and it became very easy to create and not feel like I have to market a new offer or everything else, you know, every other month, right? Right. So it it that's how it helped me taking the pressure off and like allowing myself to have fun and create and and not feeling like I have to be 8,000 places at once, or my mind being 8,000 places at once.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Right. Yes, yes, yeah. Well, and I think on top of that, too, our program actually got better. Oh, way better because we leaned more into the thing that actually made our program so different from everything else in the industry. Like instead of chasing what other people were doing that made them successful on paper, we leaned harder into the thing that we got the most compliments and gratitude for from our clients of, oh my God, we love this about you, which was the same thing that overlapped with the thing that Carissa and I were most passionate about, was that really deep, richly textured, multidimensional discovery process of helping women to figure out who they truly are and how their business fits in into why they do what they do. And it's so much more than just the thing that they sell online, but ultimately this evolution of themselves in their business into who they are now and the expertise that they have and the way that they want to change the world in ways that are so far even beyond where they were when they first started their business or the last time that they rebranded themselves or whatever. And we found that the sure, you know, we had fewer clients go through our program, but the ones who did had such massive transformation that, like, even the client we were talking about earlier, where she'd worked with marketing and branding people before. And she was, she she actually asked us on her last call, like, so my program with you guys is gonna be done here in a month or two, but I kind of don't want to stop working with you. Like, what I'll do that for sure. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and that that didn't come because we, you know, followed someone else's formula. It came from leaning harder into the thing that was our greatest magic and trusting that the right people would love it and see the power in it. Now, that doesn't mean we don't have to show up and market. That doesn't mean we don't have to show up and get our offer in front of people, that we don't have to learn and grow. And, you know, yeah, there is some element of, you know, keeping up with, you know, what's going on in the industry and things like that. But it wasn't about deferring our expertise or our magic to somebody else who was more successful on paper. It was trusting that what we had that we loved so much, that we knew was so needed, and we're already getting some positive feedback of like, this is so unique in anyone else who does anything even remotely similar to you guys. It's really not that similar, but there were like, there's there's no comparison. And so instead of being like, oh shoot, there's no comparison, we need to get with the herd, we were like, actually, that's what makes this so magical. And every one of our clients who's come into the program since then comments on exactly that, on the depth of our program, on the detail, on not feeling rushed, on getting to explore so many pieces of themselves in their background that, you know, we had a client who uh she had just turned 50 as she went through our program. And she was like, you know, I didn't think you could teach this old dog new tricks. Like, I didn't think that you could teach me anything I didn't know about myself. And she was like, But I went through your program thinking I was gonna get some marketing training or something. And she's like, I met myself on the deepest level in a way I've never done in my 50 years of existence. And then took that to find her self-trust again, to show up with what she truly loves, to expand her business and her opportunities and things like that, and to really find, you know, not just something she can sell online better, but actually creating new offers that she is genuinely so passionate about, and actually seeing the magic in that, instead of being like, oh, that's the fun thing I do, but there's no way I could ever monetize on that. It's like, no, actually, that gets to be the thing. And now you get to create money from something that you truly love that fully lights your fire. So you're passionate about the thing, you're getting paid by the thing, you're creating the positive change in the world. And your clients get you in so much of a better, more powerful state to facilitate more powerful transformations for them and make a bigger difference for them. It's like it's it's abundance in all areas, it's wins in all directions from the self trust, from not leaning into the shoulds of what everyone else says, and actually learning to sit with yourself and be like, really, truly, what do I want to create? And why do I want to create it? And why does it matter? And how can I change the world with this? One person at a time. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

And even like pulling back the curtain of our most authentic selves. Like we've been told a lot of how we're supposed to be marketing our offers, right? Or offer. And just again recently, like we finally decided like, how do we actually want to be showing our work to the world? Like, what makes sense? And having to take away, once again, all of the shuds and noise. Like this right here, the conversations where McKenna and I can just like breathe, like let the conversation breathe and be honest, and and just kind of break away the mold of what everything should look like and show up as women surviving in life through business, through you know, through life. And and this is something that we excel at, like talking with others, having these conversations, and keeping them really raw. And we walk this through with our clients too. Like, what actually isn't alignment with you? Like how you steward your message? What what what is the thing that you want to do? How do you want to share it? And they're like, Well, we've been told we have to do 30-second reels. Well, do you love doing 30-second reels? Is it something that lights you up? Well, no, but that's what we have to do to get in front of more people. And I'm like, maybe, maybe we need to figure out what lights you up, what type of you know, communication works best for you so that you are lit up every time you show up, and you don't have to feel like you have to show up every single day or 10 yeah, 30-second reel, right? That's where the power comes from. So really kind of unearthing that, and like we've been going through that as well. We're not out of the we're, you know, we're not out of the clear either. And we're the perfect branding. Every moving, right? Yeah. So knowing that really helps to like really step into this is what it can look like. This is what marketing can look like, this is what authority can look like. Figuring out as simple as how do I actually like to communicate? What am I what do I excel at?

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Yes, yes.

When A Rebrand Looks Pretty But Feels Wrong

SPEAKER_03 46:17

So I think one of the biggest lessons I learned is I have worked with this amazing graphic designer for 15 years, probably. She was with me in my network marketing um business and she knows me personally. So I am all about when when something is created, I want to I want it to feel a certain way, right? And it doesn't matter like what it looks like, I need the emotion behind it, right? And so she knows me well enough to be able to create that for me, right? Well, when I shifted my business from Girl Uncovered to She Ignites, because it was just that it I was just needing to do that rebranding, I connected with her and shared with her my ideas and she was supportive and she's amazing. But she felt like I should go in the soft, you know, and we're talking marketing, color palette, you know, fonts, all of that stuff, that I should go with this soft boho type feel with the colors and that type of branding. Well, as the authority, I respected that and I followed that lead. And then I found that I was trying to cater my voice, my offers, my everything to match that brand that I didn't even really understand. Yeah, it's pretty and it's fun, but it wasn't me. And, you know, I still highly respect and adore this woman, but I'm like, that this isn't who I'm supposed to be. And so, you know, anyone that knows me personally knows that I'm bold and that bright colors, and you know, so I started when I made that shift, I started to shift my message, and so I am so much more behind that. So I want to know how you all, this is like to talk about how you work with your clients, how you take someone that isn't really sure, like the process of working with you. If they're not really sure that they are um on the right path or they need someone to pull that out of them so that they know what their message is. Just tell me a little bit about what it's like working with you, the process, and how people that are listening can connect with you in order to make that happen for their own businesses.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Well,

The Brand Tree Roots Alignment Embodiment

SPEAKER_01 48:39

and and I think something to highlight there, or that I want to spotlight for a second, is that when a lot of people, uh especially in the online space, entrepreneurs, you know, when they think personal branding, they tend to think personal branding equals colors, logos, fonts, palettes, you know, like, and that's the end of it. And, you know, with all the love in the world, like the the comment that Carissa and I make so often is like, what the fuck do your colors and logos and fonts actually represent if you didn't do the actual deep dive branding work ahead of time? You just like picked some pretty fonts in Canva and a color palette you found on Pinterest. What is that actually supposed to represent? Or like designing a logo and it it's it's no wonder that people get all of the pretty stuff done, but they still feel disconnected or detached from the brand. And they're like, well, but I did my branding. And so they think it's a marketing problem or they think it's a sales problem. But actually, it's like, no, we you like the way that we describe it, we actually have a model designed around this. And um, I'll explain it in words here. I'll paint you a word picture since we're in an auditory format. But essentially, I want you to think of the grandest oak tree you've ever seen. You're standing in front of, right? Big old giant roots down deep into the ground, this very broad trunk, and then these very wide-sweeping branches up top filled with leaves and the little starts of, you know, seeds and things like that, you know. And what happens is most people, or hell, if you're uh uh maybe your favorite tree is a Christmas tree, great. We can go with the Christmas tree. But basically think of your logo, your colors, essentially the visual aesthetic of your brand is the acorns or the star on top of the tree. But most people start there and they're like, oh, well, why does this not feel like it's right? And it's like, well, because you have the decoration on the tree, not the actual tree itself. So when when we talk about personal branding, it's like your visual aesthetic actually is sourced from everything underneath of it. So when we talk about branding, we essentially break it into three phases, if you will, and relating this with the visual of the tree. There's your brand roots. Now, your brand roots are very much the core of who you are. It's your values, it's your beliefs, it's your story and experiences that brought you here. You know, it's all of these deeper elements of who you are, your insights, your habits, your personality, your strengths and your flaws, your experiences. It's like all of the underground stuff that other people don't necessarily see, but it has to be built before the rest of, you know, like when you plant a seed, it's not that you suddenly have a tree the next day. It's like the roots happen first and then the tree grows up. So with your brand roots, this is really anchoring you in into who you are, what you value and believe, your story experiences, like the things that make you so uniquely you, that not necessarily that everyone sees, but they inform everything that happens above ground that everyone else sees. Then we move into essentially the trunk of our metaphorical tree here. And this is what we refer to as your brand alignment. And this is all of the different elements of your vision, your um movement, your brand story, your content pillars and messaging, as they're typically referred to in the industry. This is your offers. This is what platform you show up on. This is, you know, who your ideal client is. Like, this is where a lot of like the marketing strategy comes in, is actually in the trunk of this tree. And the reason that we refer to this as alignment is because ideally, we want our tree to grow straight up and down, right? But if we start listening to everyone else and their dog about how we should be growing, what ends up happening is our tree kind of starts growing a little crooked because it's not exactly ours. We're not truly in alignment with where we desire to go and this vision we have of what we want to create. So the first part of our program typically is uncovering and understanding at the deepest level the roots of our client and what led them to wanting to create the offers that they do. And then from there, we can find and help them discover the, you know, quote unquote marketing strategy that's anchored in those roots to create the alignment and to figure out, like, okay, so what is essentially the bridge between all of the personal elements of who I am and what I value and believe in my story, and connect that to the top of the tree, which we refer to as your brand embodiment. Now, this is the external facing expression of your brand, which is the brand feel. This is your voice, this is your signature belief statements, this is, you know, your spicy opinions and convictions in and about your industry. This is the things that differentiate you. This is your actual content and how you create and how you show up and those kinds of things. So your brand embodiment and actually your visual aesthetic would fall into this category. But the thing is that people want to start with the visual aesthetic, you know, the star on top of the tree or the acorns on the tree, skipping the entire rest of what makes the tree so strong. And it's like, well, no wonder the colors feel like, uh, they're pretty, but like, does this actually represent, like, no wonder you got a logo that six months later you're like, you know, it's pretty, but I don't actually feel connected to it because we didn't start at the roots. We didn't start at that deepest understanding of what you're trying to create and why, and then bridging that into or building on top of it the strategy, the alignment, the expression, the content frameworks, you know, whatever. It's like we've gotta start from the bottom. But, you know, nobody likes to, nobody likes to start in the the like you think when you plant a seed, right? And you're like, oh, it's gonna grow into a beautiful flower or a beautiful tree or whatever. But actually what happens is that seed just got shoved in the dirt in the dark, in the damp, in the work that we're like, ooh, I don't like this, isn't really comfortable, this isn't pretty, this isn't, you know, I just wanna, I just wanna have a logo and I just wanna have colors, and that'll just, it'll fix my business problems. And it's like, well, I hate to burst your bubble, but actually, it might not. And that's not to say you won't feel excited about it, exactly like you did, where you're like, oh, it's so pretty, and you know, and no discredit to people who start there. But what we find is that most of the women who do come back later and they're like, Yeah, this isn't really, this isn't really the thing. And I can't articulate why it feels off, but it doesn't feel like mine because it was never rooted in theirs to begin with. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Yeah, a lot of the times as a result, as we work through the roots and the alignment and the embodiment, and there's another stage too, and that's expansion. But that's for further a lot of entrepreneurs, but a lot of times we hear like from the from our clients that this is this finally represents their essence, dare I say their soul, like this is them, and it gets to grow with them, and it's human, and they can maintain it because it's their truth. Like, we've created this entire ecosystem that they're already living in real life, but they put the mask on in business and social media. Now they're connected, so it almost feels and this is quoted from another client, almost gets to be easy, but then when it gets to be easy, they start to question well, is this too easy? Do I need to be doing more? But it's because it's in a complete alignment with who you are, so you're not trying to be this person in business and then trying to be this person offline, and it's like it's exhausting, right? So the result is so incredibly it just makes you want to cry when I see these clients come to us and like it gets to be this simple, right? Not always like business is not easy, we know that, but it gets to be that simple where wow, I just show up and say what I wanted to say without running it through the filter, without me getting in the way, or someone and someone else get in the way. So it's just so beautiful, it's so beautiful to see the result as we work through those. And sometimes we start, depending on where you are. Sometimes we start with the alignment. Maybe they're like solid in the roots, but the alignment and the embodiment is like we need to go hard on that. So it depends on where you are. Uh, we kind of figure out the structure that we need to create for the program for them personally. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Yeah, that's where the personalization comes in. It's it's very much like we know we need to cover all of these things, but some of our clients spend longer in one area or another because based on how long they've been in their industry, the kinds of client testimonials they have, the offers that they have, you know, the personal development work that they've done as actual human beings, even outside of their business. Like all of that impacts their starting point. And so we're very much pulling out all of these different aspects of their brand. But for some clients, there's more discovery work because they've never considered their values or their biggest beliefs, but they've got their marketing strategy pretty well down pat. Like they know how to market. They just feel disconnected from what they're creating because they're like, yeah, it sells, but it doesn't feel like me anymore. I'm not passionate about it. Or there's other clients that are like, I feel like I don't even know who I am anymore, and I'm trying to market and it's falling flat and it's not do like we're like, okay, we're gonna start with you in the brand roots. We're gonna start with the first girl. Probably us understanding her brand roots, but it's not a whole discovery process for her necessarily. It's simply her communicating that with us so that we can start in the discovery of the alignment or the embodiment. So we very much get to tailor it to the client that we're working with and her experience and what she's going through at the moment that caused her to want to work with us in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

So tell us how um microphone down.

How To Work With Unbound

SPEAKER_03 59:55

Tell us how um people listening can start working with you, or if you are currently accepting people, or if there's a wait list, or how it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

We are currently accepting, I think two new, two, because obviously, as we said, it's pretty, it's it's long term and we're in it with you. Um, so two to three clients we are taking right now, depending on what that looks like. And in order to see if we're a good fit, we want we do it the old school way. I don't care what anyone says. This is once again, I'm standing up for what we believe. We want to just get on a call and understand you. Like they need to make sure that they're a good fit for us, and we need to make sure that we're a good fit for them. So to operate out of school integrity, like that. Yeah, like we still do calls with you, like it it's a relationship that we build. Um, and it's not like you can just fill out an application and then be done. Like, we need to see you personally, we need to talk with you, and we need to know that we can give you what you want, right? So, in order to work with us, you can book a call with us. Um, I think you can go to our website, and actually the book a call is right on there, and it's just a casual conversation so we can start the relationship and see if it's a good one to continue working on your brand. Because, like I said, we don't mess around, we go deep, we go real deep, and it's super fun and super rewarding, and there's tears and there's laughter and there's like frustration on our clients saying because, like, damn, we gotta do this. Fine, right? But it's like it's um it's it's the best kind. It is the best kind.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

So yeah, that's that's truly where that consultation comes in, is because you know, we we're we're not talking about, you know, uh uh graphic design that gets turned around in a week. Like we actually don't do graphic design, by the way. Like we do all of the other stuff prior to the visual aesthetic, and then you can find your favorite graphic designer who, by the way, will be way more happy if you can show up and be like, here's what my brand represents. Yeah, here's my personality, here's what I value, here's what I want my logo and my color palette to embody. Here's the feel of my brand. Like your designer's gonna love you so much more by showing up with all of that stuff. Um, but yeah, specifically with that consultation is like Carissa said, it's making sure that we can actually help you with the problem you're having. Is it actually a branding problem? Which most of the time our clients think they have a marketing problem and it turns out they actually have a branding problem. But then it's also ensuring that because the level of depth of work that we do, to Carissa's point, the tears, the joy, the like, holy shit, I didn't even realize this about myself, you know, like we've got to make sure that people who are coming into our program are prepared for that because it is a lot. It is so much inner discovery. It's it, this isn't just this like quick turnaround thing where it's like, you know, brand your business in 30 days or less. Like that the girl, like we got so many things to unpack there. So it's also making sure that, you know, sure, we could take your money, but making sure that we're actually going to be able to do the work, that you're ready for this level of work, and that it's gonna be a good fit. And we would so much rather tell someone, hey, actually, it doesn't feel like this is gonna be a good fit. If we have a referral to someone else that we know would, amazing, we'll make it. If we don't, we're we're more than okay saying, like, actually, we don't think our program is gonna help with the thing that you're trying to do right now. And we would so much rather do that than have someone, you know, go to our website, buy our program after never having had a conversation with us, get started, invest significantly, and then be like, oh shit, this isn't what I thought it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Because like that's not us serving them or helping them, you know, and and most of our clients, um, or people who do a consultation with us, regardless of whether they end up signing with us for positioned for impact or not, our our program, they always walk away with value, even from the consultations. They walk away with clarity. They walk away, like there's so much value happening there for them. And that's our biggest goal is like, regardless of whether you sign with us, that this gets to be a very valuable clarity and confidence boosting experience that you walk away with, regardless of whether you continue to work with us in the full program or not.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Yeah. Ultimately, some down or some down, summed up, some down. Anyway, words. Uh we really want you when you come into our space. We always want you to feel truly held, truly seen, uh, validated, encouraged, and really give you the space to fucking dream up what you want your personal brand to be. We want you to take those dreams and we want to take those visions and we want to take those stories and your truth and just give you clarity around that, but then ground them in the brand strategy so you can maintain it and feel excited and have that passion back in your business and also your fucking life because they are connected. I don't care what anyone says, they are absolutely connected. So that's what we want to be able to give you, and that call allows us to make sure it's a good fit for that, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

That's great. That's great. I know so many, you know, programs that I have been a part of in the years past, or friends that have, and they don't have that. And so you jump into it and you make an investment, and you're like, Oh, this this is not a good fit. And I'm not learning what I thought I was going to learn. And um, then if it's not the information that you thought it was, it's hard to do the assignments or, you know, the follow-up work behind it, and which then in turn makes you feel like you've wasted a ton of money and haven't had any growth. And I know that, you know, I we have known one another and I've done workshops with you all. And there's um there's something about the two of you that I'm I'm gonna get emotional. There's something about the two of you that um is different in this industry, and how you said that you want your people to feel held, they do. And it's wonderful when there's someone that can get just as excited about your idea as you do, you know, because not only does that bring it home to make you feel like, you know, I I do have worth to put out into this world, but it also makes you feel like you are, you know, in an empowering space when you are mirroring our message back to us, right? And so I just want to encourage, you know, any woman that is listening that has a business that is, you know, thinking that they're they need this support to go to their website. It will be listed in the show notes and sign up for that call because, like they said, you will get an abundance of impact just from the call, even if you don't sign up. So, McKenna, did you have something to say, or were you just like doing a raising the roof kind of thing there?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

I did.

Being The Mirror For Your Truth

SPEAKER_01 1:07:41

Just the something that you you shared there that actually hits on one of our biggest values and beliefs, in fact, is that our job is not to tell you what your brand is or should be. It's to help you trust the magic of the answers you already have inside of you, but decided weren't worthy, weren't good enough, were too much, we're not enough, whatever. Our job is to be that mirror to help you see everything that you already have inside of you. So where you said, you know, being able to have your ideas reflected back to you, it is literally in our top 10 values for the branding agency is we we refer to it as being the mirror. We're not gonna prescribe a solution that isn't yours. We're going to help you find your own answer and figure out how to create the most magic and potency out of it, but not because we told you what to do, because you already had it. And getting to trust yourself again is a byproduct of this process. Like, yeah, it's branding, but we we joke that we're somewhere in between, somewhere in between uh personal branding meets a little bit of low-grade non-clinical therapy, meets the deepest self-discovery that you have ever done in your life. We're somewhere in the Venn diagram in the middle of all three of those circles. So we're so excited to see you, to be that reflection. And whether you book a consult with us or not, if we could leave you with one thing, it's that you already have the answers. You just have to decide that they're worthy and that they are magical and be willing to see that for yourself. And if you can't, there are people in the world who are here to help you see it for yourself until you can do that on your own.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:42

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

I think I can think I I mean McKenna just pretty much summed it up in a nutshell. Um yeah, I I don't think I can add anything better. I think this is, I mean it's just it's so much. I'm just gonna repeat it. It's so much more than branding. It's so much more. And we really love to watch women root into their personal brand because what comes out is just beautiful. It's honesty, it's truth, it's compassion for themselves, for people around them, for their story. Like it's just I wouldn't ask to do any other work. Like, this work is beautiful to see.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

One of the things that I say often with She Ignites is that you know it's time for women to choose themselves and stop waiting to be chosen. And I think so many of us have spent so much of our lives in that space. And this is a way that you can choose yourself by listening to your own voice. And, you know, McKenna had said that um, you know, you already know the answers, just maybe you don't know the questions. And McKenna and Carissa can help you with that.

Hype Songs And Closing Fire

SPEAKER_03 1:11:02

So I have one more fun question to ask you that I ask all of my guests. And I don't know if you know this, but we have a She Ignites playlist, and the playlist has songs from every one of my guests that is their inner hype song or the song that they play when they need to be their fiercest fucking self. So what song is it that you play first? I want to hear from both of you so that I can add that to my playlist. And Chris, I know you are a big um dancer and um share music in your content. So I imagine you probably have a long list of these, but what's the first one that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:44

Oh my gosh, I'm actually just pulled up because I do have a list on Spotify of like my like hype, my well songs that I I just love coming back to to feel something. You know what is my number one song that I I can't there's one and I cannot remember the name of it, which is oh, that's what it is. Okay, enough by Appleby, A-P-P-L-E-E-Y. I freaking turn that song on. It's on re it's one of my most played songs on Spotify. It's just, it makes me just like yeah, I'm fucking enough. I can always come back to that. Um I have multiple other songs. Songs root me into every feeling that I that's the first one that I would say I come back to.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:40

I love it. What's yours, McKenna?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

Um shoot dang. So I have two, I have two that come to mind, and I'm sure that there's more. But um, which is funny because these are like so far away from the typical music that I listen to, but there's just something about them. Um, so I think it's Daft Punks uh one more time. Okay. And there's just something about like just, you know, the the between the beat and the music, and like we're just we're gonna do it again. Like no matter how it went, we're gonna do it again. Like we're gonna, we're gonna practice, we're gonna get better at it. Um there's and then the the second one that came to mind is um 10, like the number 10. Oh, I like that one. And uh I had to Google it really quick here. Um, I think it's the Nathan Daw and is it M-N-E-K remix, I think. Um anyway, but so this it basically says, if I fall nine times, then I'll get up ten. If I get knocked down, I'll get back again. I'm a fighter till the very end. If I fall nine times, I'll get up ten. And there again, there's just there's just something about it, like recognizing and acknowledging that there will be challenge, there will be times where you get knocked down, there will be times where, you know, somebody blows out your fire or you know, life happens or whatever. But we get to choose what we do with that and whether we stay down or whether we come back as the whole damn flame.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:20

Um I love that. I love that. And what a perfect note to end on. We bring in the flame, right? So thank you all so much for joining me for this conversation. And I am just blessed to know you and so glad that um our paths have crossed. And um I can't wait to continue to watch your business grow and see all of the impact that you're going to make to women across the world. Wow, this conversation I feel like I could have had go on and on for hours. Not only are McKenna and Carissa amazing, amazing coaches for your personal business, but they also have insight to women sharing their truths and how to find their voices. So even if you don't have a business, I encourage you to follow them because you just might learn a thing or two about your soul's desires. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation just as much as I did. Until next time, Firestarters, don't forget to light that damn fire within yourselves. Well, that's it for today, babe. But your fire is just getting started. If you're feeling lit up, go ahead and hit subscribe, leave a spicy little review, and tag me at GIgnites CandleCo. So I can hype you up. Remember, the world doesn't need a quieter version of you. It needs the bold, blazing, fully expressed view. Until next time, keep glowing, keep going, and never, ever dim your damn light.