EP 11: Herpes, Love, and Self Worth with Demi Ward

In this episode, I sit down with the beautiful Demi for a conversation that feels deeply important, honest, and long overdue.

We’re speaking about herpes. The shame around it. The stories people make it mean. The fear that rises when you first find out. And the truth that so rarely gets spoken about.

Both Demi and I share our own experiences of receiving the diagnosis and what unfolded after. We talk about the emotional spiral, the fear of not being lovable, the way society has conditioned people to see herpes as something dirty or devastating, and how that simply is not the full truth.

This conversation is really about what happened because of it.

For both of us, this experience became a portal into deeper self honesty, self respect, boundaries, truth, intimacy, and self acceptance. We speak about how it can become a mirror, a messenger, even a kind of GPS, showing you where you are out of alignment, where you are self abandoning, and what is asking to be healed.

Inside this episode, we explore:

• what it felt like to first find out
• the shame and fear that can come with the diagnosis
• how herpes can trigger a deeper journey of self reclamation
• how to talk to a partner about it
• why the right person will not be scared off by your truth
• how truth creates intimacy
• why this does not mean you are broken, ruined, or unlovable

If this is something you live with, I really hope this episode helps you feel less alone.
 And if it’s not your story, I hope it opens your heart and expands your perspective.

This is a conversation about herpes, yes.
 And even more than that, it’s a conversation about shame, love, truth, and coming home to yourself.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Elvolve podcast where we have interesting and insightful conversations. Today is a really important episode because I'm here with another incredible woman and we're gonna have a really vital conversation. Demi, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Everyone's like, what conversation are we gonna get? What is it about? Okay, so when was it? What month are we in now? December. It was over a year ago that I spoke on my previous podcast with Veronica about having genital herbies. That was about, yeah, just over a year ago, which is wild. And that's really the only conversation that I've had publicly about it, outside of like a little bit of content around that time as well, um, on Instagram. I've spoken about it a little bit in my YouTube videos and had conversations with people like who've messaged me about it. And what was really beautiful is that you reached out to me one day wanting to have a chat with me. And you were in Mexico. Demi was in Mexico, just hanging out.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

And you helped me to relate to it in a new way.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

And I think it's it's going to be a really powerful conversation for us to have, to speak about it and speak to it and I guess relate to it in a new light so that people can begin, people that have it can begin to, I guess, not make it mean all of these terrible things and actually see it as a positive thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yeah, greatest gift. Yeah, greatest gift eventually.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Eventually eventually it always comes around.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

So tell me, like, when did what was your story? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Okay, so story's huge, but it started when I was in nursing, and I think we had this conversation about nursing when I started to see that it was in a lot of people's history. It was in a lot of people's stories, and I didn't know what it was, and it was coming up a lot. And I then became really obsessed with trying to figure out if I had had it.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Because I seen that it was so like normal, but no one was talking about it. And I started testing. And I was with a partner at the time who wasn't faithful, and so I started looking for reasons to, I guess, leave, which is sort of the journey that brings you in, or bring me in anyway. And one day I went in and I found out that it was a positive, and then the next time I went and rechecked because they asked me to come and recheck, it was a negative, and it was just this positive, negative, positive, negative loop. And I thought there is something to this. And I went on this journey of yeah, really coming back into my own power around it and reclaiming my body, and yeah, there's a whole story there, but um basically I found out when I was in nursing when it started coming into my awareness around everyone that was coming through that had also had it, and I became really interested and started to focus on it and in turn created and manifested my reality because I mean our greatest fears always come to light so that we can find out who we are in the process of the journey. What was it like for you finding out that you had it? It was like there's no words to say that felt like dying in a lifetime and being alive. It's like you meet that greatest fear um at the time. It was a really great fear because I made it mean that it meant that I would never be loved and that I could never have a connection, could never have a relationship, there was something wrong with me. Um so at the time it literally felt like my eyes were ringing, uh my ears were ringing, and it was just like this reality that had just happened and there was no no way to get out of it. So I thought at the time, yeah. And you are in a relationship. The most beautiful relationship in the world.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

I don't know if we could say relationship. I think we need to say like divine union.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah, like and this is the why this conversation is so important to me is I truly believe that that experience and that journey is what allowed me to have the relationship I have to, like today. Without it, it wouldn't I would never have been able to speak truth. I would never have reclaimed my body. Any of these things that we need to be in beautiful, like beautiful partnership.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So what happened after you found out that you had terpies? Like what did you do? How did you respond to that situation? Because you just spoke about reclaiming your body and your voice and your power. What did that look like? How did how did this create like a chain of events? What were those chain of events that happened after?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

So I at the time I was in a like period of my life where I was abusing my body with alcohol, like the wrong people, wrong places, just in that loop. And I really believed that this came to life and manifested physically so that I couldn't unsee it, and I could then begin to look at it. And I went on this journey for four years of celibacy and began to connect with people in a way that wasn't emotional and wasn't sexual. So I then began like went on this journey of really getting to know people that face value and discovering my worth beyond all of those things. And yeah, I went on this beautiful journey of celibacy, came back into my own power, reconnected with my body, and from there I was then like a clear channel to be able to manifest the right person and know that they could then meet me in all the other dimensions before the final one, which was sexually.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Wow. That is so amazing. It's so amazing that it it in a sense it was kind of like this portal for you to step through to really look at yourself and reflect and be like, hmm, is this who I am? Like the way that I'm living my life, the people that I'm investing my energy in, the behaviors and habits, like where I'm investing my time, like alcohol and is that me? Does that feel does that feel right? Because I mean, people can people receive receive herpes. Is that the right way? I feel like it is it like people can contract it, I guess, from you know, so many different situations, and yet still I think the most important part is self-reflection. It's like, how have I allowed this to happen? And it's not to say that you know it's it's never your fault. Like it's not something to be like, oh, to go into this self-blame around. It's more so like a sense of curiosity. It's like, what am I being invited to look at in this? Like when I reflect on what I was doing and who I was spending time with and the kind of behaviors that I was almost kind of promiscuous back then, you know, like fucking around a little bit, and truly the man that I received it off, he was my boyfriend at the time. And he didn't tell me about it. And even when I shared it with him, he was just kind of like very blasé about it, like, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, hmm. And so it if when I look back now, I recognize that I was dishonouring myself a lot because even in that moment when he denied it, like I where was my voice? Where was me, you know, actually being like, hey, like, no, is this something that you knew about? And like, where was my power in that moment? Rather than just being like, oh yeah, whatever. I also knew like in the depths of my soul that this was not the man that I was meant to be with. And I already recognized that. I was already like, this is not my guy, like his family is, you know, these are like he had our values are off, like it's just not aligned whatsoever. And yet I ignored that first clue and I stayed with him, and then it's like I then manifested herpes through him to then be like, hello, yeah, this is not for you, this person is not for you. And I've spoken to so many other women that have herpes as well, and it only flares up if they're fucking the wrong person.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

It's yeah, I I really believe that it's when you're saying yes when you should be saying no. It's when we're not honoring our like deepest truth, and I still see it like continue because I see it as the most beautiful gift now, as like our GPS system. It's like the lights are on, and it's like where have I said yes when it was actually a no? And my body is showing me, like, hey, we've got to listen. It becomes like, yeah, the greatest gift. Like to me, it's the greatest gift. It helped me to uh let go of all victim stories. It was like I still now to this day, I don't even um I guess have any blame for the person I was in connection with at the time, which was also my boyfriend of a very long uh period of time. It's made me take full responsibility for all my actions or like the way I treat my body, everything. Um yeah, the more and more that I learn about it, it's like it's like a common cold. Yeah. You know, it's people have cold sores on their face all the time when their bodies are run down. It's when there's like warning signs on that are like, hey, it's time to uh reassess your reality right now and and what's happening. And yeah, to me it's the most beautiful thing. Because we now know we can see it and we can feel it before you know you can feel it before. You can feel it emotionally and you can feel it mentally, and then it like the last dimension of it is physically, and so now we're we can get on top of it so much easier.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

100% and I love how you said it's like a GPS, you know, it's it's kind of it's telling you where you shouldn't go and also inviting you to just stop and pause and like reflect on what's the best route moving forward, what are the what are the right choices for me? And um yeah, like for women that I've spoken to that have been like, it's only ever shown up if I've slept with this one guy and he's not a good guy, you know, he's not well his behavior isn't great, right? And he's not been treating me right. It's like my body's been like not him, stay away from him. The womb knows exactly, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

We go back on this journey of reclaiming this part of ourselves that's like highly intelligent, that's literally speaking to us at all times. And from there, it's like, well, that is the best thing that I could possibly have.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

The other thing that I really I choose to see as a gift through having herpes is it helps you sort out who um who's worthy of you very quickly. Do you know what I mean? Like when you're when you're sharing this part of yourself with someone, if they're unable to see the soul behind that, then it's like, oh, you're actually not for me then. You know, because it literally is just this viral thing that that shows up every so often. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

For sure, I feel like the most beautiful thing that I got to experience through telling my partner was to see how much responsibility he had for himself. And you know, it's like it's the same with when we've got a cold. It's like if your partner's gonna be like, Oh, you've got a cold, so sorry, well, I'll see you in two weeks. Like you can see that very clearly. And so the way someone shows up in their own like responsibility for their body and how they trust themselves and what they believe, you can see it straight away. It like creates the deepest intimacy through truth.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

So I'm curious, how did you share that conversation? Like, I think this is gonna be something that yeah, people are like, told us how you told him.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah, so I was freaking out about this, and this is the reason why I was celibate for four years, because I was like, I was in this big shame loop. Like it was so hidden, no one was talking about it, no one I knew would ever share it, no one had like bulls to do that, you know. And the universe created the most perfect situation for this to shift and move and liberate. So I met my partner, and because I was so disconnected from relationship in that way because of this unconsciously, we met and we didn't even think that it was anything. And he invited me to Nepal on a first date, but we didn't know it was the first date at the time. And we went and hiked the mountains of Nepal, which meant that he met me in every single dimension on that trip. It was five days where he met my emotions, me physically, you know, mentally, everything that happened between us. And we got to the top of the mountain, and I was freaking out because this energy was building, like there was attraction, and it was like life was singing at us. We'd walk into the streets and people would be like flocking towards us, they could feel it, they were wondering if we were married, and we'd just met. And I think it was because I had cultivated this sexual energy, and we'd both been moving it through our nadis and through our chakras for months before we met. So we met on the higher planes and not like the the sexual planes. That's what we didn't like, we didn't connect for that. And so we were on the top of this mountain, and we met this famous Sherpa who took us up the mountain, he's our our guru, and um we got to journey with him, and he took us up the mountain for our first five days of knowing each other. We were sitting in one of the tea houses, and this man was magic, he's a god in human form. He'd walk in, he'd just say one little thing, and it would activate and something inside of us, and more truth would come about and more love. And he comes in and he says, The things that you hold on to will make you sick, and laughed and goes, Enjoy your holiday, and walks out. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, This man, like Nepal is like a mirror, everything you think immediately gets like reflected back to you, it's magic. And I was like, Oh my god, this is the moment I'm gonna have to tell him. Had you kissed or anything? Yeah, we had kissed, yeah, okay, yeah, and there was sexual energy like moving between us, but I was so held back because I was like, I did not expect this. Like, I didn't expect this, and I never thought I'd already accepted that I was never gonna have a partner, even though it was the one thing that I wanted in this life. But like this conversation is why it's so important because I didn't think that it was for me. I was like, nah, so much shame that like no one's gonna love me for that, you know. And um when I told him, he was like Okay, end. And I was like, What do you mean end? He's like I trust your body and I trust my body. Because we both had beliefs that you know our hearts beat for us in every single moment to keep us alive. Like we're not doing anything to control that. You know, our our whole bodies are trying to keep us alive and moving, and these magical uh machines that were created in a womb of mystery, we have no idea like how any of it happened, and we're gonna be like, oh, this thing happens where you get like this little cold when you run down, and now all of a sudden that means our worlds are over. And he made me see it as like, this is like the tiniest thing. This is like the most beautiful thing in the world because you were able to tell me, and immediately we like got so close. Truth just like dissolved all feel like fear in the field. It was like shame just evaporated and it was like he freed me from these four years, and it's it has been the basis of it, the creation of our relationship going forward. So truth overload, you freed you. I freed me, yes. And his response freed me too, because yeah, I I really believe that because he's so connected to his own uh authority of his body, he could then be like that's your body, this is my body, and together we navigate anything.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Wow, yeah, I love that, yeah, I love that so much. I think I should share with you a little story as well uh about I so I I was celibate too for about a year and a half, and then I went to Costa Rica.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Goddess celibacy, yes, not sleeping with others, but definitely loving oneself.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yes, yes, yes, exact exactly. And so I went to Costa Rica and I met this guy, and I was like, hmm, there's definitely like attraction there. And I also knew that he wasn't my man, yeah. And I had all of these rules around it. I was like, no, I can't, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I can't have sex with anyone that's not my man. And I just had all of these structures and rules around what was next for me in that space. And I sat with um, I said I went to a ceremony and sat with a microdose of mushrooms and um an intention with my cacao and a sound healing. The intention was literally higher self-reveal truth. That it wasn't even specific to any kind of situation. Actually, no, I remember thinking like it's gonna tell me to put him in the bin. Not and to not put him in the bin.

unknown 19:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Not put him in the bin, you know, that yeah, like not pursue that and you know, um, and it said the complete opposite. It was just like it showed me how I'd been living in this state or this experience of my what I thought was belief, it was actually fear. And I was like, oh, and it just kind of dissolved all of that in front of me. It's like all of these beliefs that you have is actually fear.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

And I was like, oh shit. And I was like, but what about my husband? What about my man? And the medicine was like, he's it's already done. Like it's already planned, it's already timed, it's going to happen. Like you don't need to do anything, and he wants you to experience pleasure. Like he wants that for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

So if you want to do it with this guy, do it and just make sure you do it with in integrity and have the conversations that you need to have so that you feel good about it. And part of that was telling him that I have herpes. Yeah, truth. And so that's what I did. Yeah. And I was so fucking nervous, guys. God, I was rehearsing that conversation in my head for days and days. I was like, how am I gonna do this? And um, yeah, I there were a few things that I wanted to talk about. I wanted to tell him that I wasn't on contraception, yeah, and that's not something that I'm going to be doing. So to be mindful of that, I wanted to tell him that I desired exclusivity while ever we're being intimate eat with each other sexually, just to protect the energetic container and also like emotional and emotional and everything. So and then I also wanted to tell him that I had herpes and he just received it so well. He was like, okay. He's like, yes, I understand. And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

And then that was it. And what happened for you after that conversation?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Like, oh he was exactly what I needed. Like, we only slept with each other maybe like three times or something, like I don't know, three? Yeah, something like that. Like, not a lot. It was great though, it was lovely. It's really nice to be like, you know, connected in that way again. And also after even just that amount of time, I was like, hmm, I'm not developing an emotional connection, that there's something forming here that I is not great, like almost like uh a need, uh almost like a constant awareness of him and what he was doing. And I was like, oh, this isn't great because this is not my person.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

And so it just very organically dissolved. And I was like, okay, it was perfect. It was exactly what it needed to be. Now we're truly just friends. Yeah. And so he was what I needed to, I guess, create the evidence that it's like I can have this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

If I can have this conversation with a guy that I'm literally just about to have like a casual kind of exchange with. Then I can have it with anyone that comes after, and the man that is my person is gonna receive it well.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

So it was it was beautiful evidence to create in that regard.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Don't you think it's crazy too that we're like, oh, I'm okay and I feel safe with allowing this person into my body, into my field, but I'm scared of having this conversation about something that's actually true for me.

unknown 22:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Even that, and also when I reflect on past me and how I would just have sex with people, like how we can connect with, like let someone enter us physically, emotionally, energetically, spiritually, without even knowing who they are, and without them even knowing who we are. Like, that's crazy to me now. Yeah. That's crazy. I'm like, bro, five dates minimum. And like maybe more beyond that, you know. I need And take me to Nepal. Yeah, take me to Nepal. Oh my gosh, you set the new standard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah. It's it's a thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Baseline, baseline, base camp thing. Yeah, yeah, base camp. Right. Yeah. So and now, like since since that man, I've been like really just back in my own energy and now like, yeah, cool. I'm ready to just ready for it to come to me. Yeah. You know, yeah. I just feel like it's close.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah. Oh yeah. It's been close for a while. I always see it as like um it's like you were being interviewed by the last guy for your husband. Yeah. He's like just checking to see where you're at, you know, consciousness just moves in different vessels. It's like, is she ready? Oh, I like that. Yeah, I can feel how close your man is. You can just tell when someone's in that energy, and it's just so connected to their self, like themselves, and they've brought that back into their center, and it's like, well, the mirror is just you're just gonna be in the right place now at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

It took a little while to get there, and it does, right? Like, I remember the moment that I decided that I desired divine union. I was like 27, 28, and I was in this love workshop, this online love workshop. This lady was speaking about the love that she had, and I was like, that's what I want. And it was like, I want it tomorrow. Yeah, but it's like, whoa, I need to become a match for that. Like I had to go on my own whole journey before I could be ready to actually attract someone that can create all of that with me, and I know that you can relate to that too, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

It's like a it's devotion. It's devotion to showing up in the way that you want someone else to show up for you to yourself every day because we always get who we're being. That's the biggest thing I've like learnt from my partner coming through is like he was just an absolute match to who I was being. But do you feel like you when you were young, and I don't know if this is what is like for everybody, but when you were young, could you feel like in your know? And you can probably feel into it right now, that there was a greater love for you. Yeah. Yeah, like you knew, yeah, and you could feel it. And when you tune into that, it's like now that I've met my partner, it's that exact feeling that I felt when I was young. It was gonna blow my mind.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

It was something I could never I can feel it right now, and in the past, there was this blanket on top beliefs that was like, you're not good enough, you're not worthy, you know, except I was like, I am though, but I really needed to go on that journey myself to truly recognize that and to be able to show up and show up for myself in a way that's reflective of that, yeah. And a lot of that is just facing facing you shit, facing my shit.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yeah. And like no one had gone before us. Like the template that I can know and feel that you're gonna hold with your partner is like something that you haven't seen. Yeah, it's gonna be your own. That's why it's like so hard to know. You can just feel it. Uh I'm excited for you.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Well, I I just love that you've come into my life and I've been able to meet you because you've shown me what's possible. And I think that's a really precious gift. That's something that you're doing. Okay, no bad.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah, so thank you for that. Of course. And likewise, I remember the day that I met you, and I was just like, you are glowing. I was like, it's my highlighter and bronzer. And I was like, no, it's the spirit. I'm like, have you been celibate? You're like, yeah. I'm like, I know, I know the kind, I can feel the energy. It just moves like this subtle, like, wave of beauty, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

It's magic.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

I think that's probably why that guy was like, ooh, shiny. You know, I don't think he realized, I don't think he even knew what was attracting him to me. And I think it was just this energy that I was in.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

And while I kind of flipped, I kind of went through this little dance of, oh, this is wrong. Am I dishonoring myself? Like, what am I doing? Uh now when I look back, I'm like, I got what I needed from that. I actually needed that experience.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah, totally. It's like, how do you know, and and this is the beauty too, right? What if he was your husband? But you said no because you were like, uh like when I met my partner, I got on the phone to my mentor after because she knew I hadn't met men for a long time. Yeah. And she's like, is it him? Is he the one?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

And I was like, no. Well, I mean, I don't think it is him because he's now back with his ex and very in love with her.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

I don't mean him as such, but I just mean if you said no, you would never have known.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

You know? And if yeah, when it comes to your husband and you do say yes, it's like you're gonna say yes anyway, because the universe is gonna make sure of it. But like, if we didn't if we weren't open to having those experiences, you wouldn't you might say no. So yeah. You have to say yes if it feels true and see what's in it for you. There's always something, it's always helping us in our becoming. Yeah. As we come closer. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah. So I'm curious, like what would you say to someone that's just found out that they have herpes?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

I would take a deep breath and I would say, You're not gonna know this now, but this is gonna be the most incredible thing that happens to you. Because you're gonna find out who you are in the process of everything you feel whilst you have this experience. You're gonna get to know your body on such a deep level, and you're gonna experience the most beautiful intimacy when it's time, because you're gonna become so intimate with yourself that you can then be met through another through that experience. And I would say that it's okay if you feel scared because the whole world has programmed us to believe that this is something that isn't great. And find spaces where people are speaking truth so that you can also speak your truth. And the final thing would be share it with others because you never know who you're gonna liberate in the process, and the shame will like dissipate in your body as you do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

You will find freedom. Yes, I love that. Thank you for sharing that, and it's so true. Like, I had this experience in plant medicine one night where I faced the shadow just like time and time and time again, and it was just like the most hectic, disturbing visions, like my imagination couldn't just bring something up right now, and like that was the level of um dark and scary and gross that I was watching over and over. And I'm witnessing this being like, oh, this is intense. And I'm like, I'm like, this is so gross. And first I was kind of judging it and kind of rejecting it. And then I I was then like, no, be curious, be curious about this. And I was watching on and I was like, fuck, it would be really sad to exist here. And I was like, imagine being this, everything that's rejected and abandoned and looked away from and just in the dark with all of this scary stuff. I was like, imagine that. Like this is the shadow.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

And I was like, fuck, I've abandoned pieces of myself in here with this darkness. And I just felt like so much compassion and sadness, and I felt so sorry. I was like, I've put younger me in here with all of this because of my body, because of, you know, I was chubby and you know, didn't like my face, because I got rejected like when I was younger, because I got herpes, like all of these things that I was ashamed of. It's like I locked those pieces, those parts, those versions of me, like in this small, dark, scary closet under the staircase. And when I recognized that and what I did in in this ceremony, I was like, I actually just said, like, I'm so sorry. Yeah. And I said, I love you. And then it dissolved and it went away. And that's when I recognized, I was like, I need to own this part about me.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Because if I don't, I'm leaving past versions of me in with all of that stuff, where all the suffering is, and where everything bad that ever happens in the world, everything dark and disgusting and rejected and abandoned, all of that stuff. I'm doing that to myself. And I said, I love you. And that's when everything transformed, and I recognized it's like shame can't exist in the light. Yeah. And only we can liberate ourselves from it by actually speaking about it.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yeah.

unknown 33:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

It no longer sits in the closet. Yeah, and that is the the whole purpose of why this conversation is so magical. It's because every time you share more truth, you free those parts that little bit more, you rewrite the past through the present to create the future, and it no longer sits in the shadow. Yeah. I love that story. Yeah. It's beautiful that you had that experience in one like ceremony because the workings that I was doing prior to meeting my partner was parts work. Yes. And yeah, it's that exact same process of having met all of these parts, brought them home to love, brought them back to the heart, and you know, Egypt is that same journey of coming into wholeness and r reclaiming all these parts. So to have that happen in one night and experience and have that whole thing bland is like the most powerful experience you could have.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Plant medicine has given me many moments like that, like just big teachings, but they're not gentle teachings. No, they're not gentle, they're very radical and very, very intense. Yeah. Like my healing of the sister wound was fucking the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced. It had to be that level of intensity to be like, wake the fuck up. Yeah. Women are your allies.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

You know? Yeah. And it was yeah. So it's it's been a great teacher. And also anytime I speak about plant medicine, I'm always like, make sure it's for you, use your discernment, like do your research, like I work with a coach before you go in, create a level of self-awareness around yourself and who you are, why you've been, you know, behaving in certain ways and your patterns and cycles and everything, and for sure. It's really important.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

For sure. Yeah. I can totally relate to that because my my calling uh happened when I was in Egypt, and we went to Peru, and it was the beauty of it was coming into full discernment around the yes and the no, and um just following the guidance, and I was guided to not do it in the physical, but I still connected with the spirit of it, and yeah, it's a big journey.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, very big journey. So I applaud you.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

I have a felt I'm gonna do it again. Yeah, well I don't know if I'm complete or not. We'll see. I think there's a bit of fear from my last journey that I'm like a bit scared to go back in. Kind of terrifying. So I don't know whether it's the medicine being like, don't come back, or whether my fear is like, don't go back.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Well, you have all of it inside of you, right? It's always just showing you more of what you know. You've met your shadows. You know how to dance with the the darkness and bring it home to the light. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Hmm, there was somewhere else I wanted to dive into, and my brain's gonna bring it back to me in a second. Yeah, okay. Gosh, my brain's great. I love it when it's up there. Thank you. Thank you, Green, you're the best. I always reinforce that message within the brain. I'm like, you're great, you're gonna bring this back to me, and then it does. Um, back to the visualization that I have. It's like I had this visualized visualization where I was like, mm-mm, I'm bringing that past version of me out of the closet and to sit with me like on this beautiful grassy hill in the sun and in the light. And that's part of our journey, that's part of the self-acceptance piece and part of my my soul's lessons. One of them, you know, to like fully accept myself. And it's like if I desire to have a man and a man that can accept me fully, I need to first fully accept myself.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

And so that was really the moment of knowing when I was like, this is something I need to speak about.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah. Yeah. The there's a teacher of mine, I studied with Layla Martin for a while, and um she has this saying, and it just it blew all of that into my reality, what you just said, and I just remembered as I went back there. She always said the goddess made waterfalls and rainbows and all of nature, every sunset and sunrise, and it also made you perfect and complete, exactly as you are. And from there I feel like all of our parts just come into harmony.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

I just felt something beautiful in my body when you said that.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Yeah, it's like, oh yeah. We've been on this journey of self-acceptance, and you know, even this conversation is like speaking to parts of perhaps people that aren't in self-acceptance and bringing that back into wholeness, this like one piece at a time. And through that one saying, it made me realize, like, whoa, I've been living this illusion of thinking that all of these things are separate and like everything is, you know, I'm not in acceptance of this or this part of me. But when I look at it as like going back to that womb space where we're literally created in the mystery and the magic, and it's perfect, and we come out into this beautiful life, it's like, how can I not just see that as magic and see that as perfect, whole, and complete?

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Even the imperfections are perfect, right? Yeah, like perfectly imperfect. This is part of it. And what these challenges, you know, like herpes, like maybe when you're first finding out about it feels like a pretty big fucking challenge. You're like, oh my god, what am I gonna do with this? It's like it's going to be a big initiation for you. If you choose for it to be, you know, what happens next is up to you from that moment. Like you could kind of and I did this for a period of time where I just tucked it away. I locked, I locked her in the closet, right? Yeah. And I buried that so deep that I kind of forgot that I had herpes. Yeah. Yep. You know, yeah. And then anytime it would it would pop up, I would just take a couple of tablets and it would go away.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

I Band-aid, yep, band-aid, band-aid. I wasn't, I wasn't actually curious about what was happening in my life and that perhaps I was being communicated with by this coming up. And so again, that's why this conversation is important, so that you can you can make a choice from this moment. It's like, what am I gonna do? And I'm curious about any advice that you would have for people that have just found out and then are like, well, what do I do now? Next for me. How do I begin to come to an air of acceptance around this when I like my mind is just going in spirals with all of these stories that I'm never gonna be loved and blah, blah, blah. Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

So my greatest advice would be to offer yourself a silver lining challenge. And this is like something that's changed my whole life, and what I share all the time is if you look back on your life and you can find the big moments that have happened in your life, and you can now see who you've become because that happened. You having this experience right now is creating moments that are now going to be moments in the future because of this experience. Like because we both contracted it, we're now here having this conversation. We could have never known on the day that we're on the floor crying, thinking our lives were over. Yeah, I'm sure you had a very similar experience in that uh time. We could never have known that we would be here talking about it from this lens or feeling free or feeling connected to uh like partners and lovers in most more divine ways. We could have never known that then. And so if you can find the silver lining in the things that have happened in your life prior to this, you'll find faith in order for you to go forward that there will be more silver linings, yeah, and that they will come from this experience.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Yeah. I just had like a big wave of mo emotion come up as you just started to say that because a big silver lining of this is that I get to have this conversation for other people, yeah, and for other women and men, yeah, to not feel alone in it. And that just kind of made me like huge.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

I know, you know, I would have yeah, yeah, like that's such a gift, yeah. It's gonna liberate the world. So when you invited me onto this podcast, I've been having this big thing about my voice and not not wanting to share like message of truth online, and I was like, oh my goodness, this is the biggest invitation to share this so it can be a silver lining for somebody else in their life, because we need we didn't have anyone that we could listen in on that were making this stuff like normal for us, yeah, and that was like the greatest gift we can give humanity. So thank you. Yay, and thank goodness that we connected on that phone call that day.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Thank goodness.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Thank goodness you have to have courage to share about the things that you're experiencing, you know. So yeah, it's only gonna ripple out.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

I really love what you offered with the silver lining. I think that's beautiful. I think that's a great place for someone to just start like within themselves, like as a first step, as a way to soothe themselves. I think that's really precious advice. Another like when you're ready to go to the next step. Again, something that you shared as well, Demi, was like sharing it and speaking about it with people. Guys, I have so many friends that have it. Like my yeah, but so many of my best friends have it.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Same. Yeah. And once you start to uh hear from other people and you hear about how normal it is, there's freedom in that.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

The story gets rewritten, like the the things that you're hearing about it are not ultimate truth. Yeah. And you get to take your power back.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, and a lot of what's surfacing for you is just programming from society. Do you know what I mean? And these attitudes that have just you've kind of unconscious. Consciously picked up over the years from people making little jokes and you know learning about it in a sexual health class and the boys making jokes and you know stuff like that. Like you get to create a new story.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah. I've had I mean I worked my way up to jumping on the podcast. You know, no one's expecting you to be like, all right, I'm gonna become a motivational speaker about herpes. And if that's your journey, fuck yeah, that'd be it's an that's a powerful one to that's an important um calling to receive if that's your choice. And I was, you know, first spoke about it with friends. And then I started speaking about it with my coach. And then, you know, I found myself in different rooms where I was doing like personal development, and something within me was like, say it. You need to own this, like start speaking about it. And so I started speaking about it in rooms. And, you know, I went into my my master breath work training the weekend that this podcast came live, and I'm literally rattled, rattled, an absolute nervous wreck coming into this room and we're doing a share circle. And I'm just like honestly a nervous wreck. And everyone's like, the invitation was like, Where are you? Like, what's going on for you now? Like, where are you at emotionally? And I'm when we got to meet, I was like, I just gotta let you guys all know. Like, I just admitted to the world that I have herpes and shitting myself. Oh my god, the very first thing that I said in front of this room full of people. And it's because, like, you know, the I was getting called to do it like within myself, I was like, say it, get this, you know, these people are gonna hold you. Like, you're meant to be here in this space. And um, anytime that I've done it, like when I went to Rhythmia, I had a I had a um, which is where I do plant medicine, I shared it in front of everyone there because I've finally let go of a a lot of shame around it. And then I had people like come up to me and cuddle me, but me too, sis. Like, love you. Thank you for speaking about that. And yeah, you know, it's just there is so much freedom and liberation in speaking about it. And again, like maybe part of it, maybe part of your soul's journey is to speak your truth.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Maybe it's speaking your truth and self-acceptance and really honoring yourself in that rather than self-abandoning.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah, honoring your boundaries as well. It's huge. Like all of these things are interlinked, I really feel, because we say we want these beautiful unions and these connections in life, but we've got this huge secret in our closet that is literally on our back, and people that we're connected with, they can feel it. There is this discordinate frequency, and truth literally moves through that and opens up more love. And so when we can share that with others, we can actually create intimacy and connect with them on a real level. So to be able to just even use it as a game where it's like I'm just gonna tell someone, see how they react. I don't need a like response, an expectation of response. Like, this is my game and my life, and I want to see if I can create intimacy with the world. Like it can be fun. There's so many ways that I would go about it, but yeah, like it continues into the relationship going forward. It's like being able to speak your truth means that you can speak for what you need, which means you can say yes if you or no if you need to say no. That ripples into every aspect of your relationship, and you're gonna need it from this is the teach piece. Wow, I really feel this is the teach piece.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

I see it being a great blessing in the sense as well, that it's like when you share that with someone and it's the right person and they accept all of you, like the depth of intimacy that creates and the safety that that creates for you being able to share that and for them to receive it and accept all of you, like that takes that takes a relationship to a whole new depth that may not have been available to you if you weren't able to share something so deep.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Yeah, you've fully heard, fully seen. Like it can only just continue to create and stack magic from there. There's no secret from the beginning. You've shared it. Yeah. Starts with your friends and then it continues exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Exactly. And so some safe spaces, I guess, to take it to the next level, women's retreats. And I host retreats, a demi host retreats. She hosts these incredible, like how would you describe them? Like soul expeditions to like that's a good one. I'm definitely wanting to. And yeah, timing is going to be perfect when that unfolds. So, yes, please speak a little bit about what you do and and your soul's mission and how people can connect with you if they feel called to.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

So, me and my partner, we take people through Egypt and Nepal and Bali and through and sacred sites. And the purpose is we like to connect with, become really intimate with life. And so each of these countries really offer an experience and a reflection of ourselves. We get to see who we are in the process of yeah, experiencing different fractals of consciousness, basically, different cultures, different uh spaces, energetic templates, energetic grids of the earth. And so, yeah, we take people on journeys to reclaim parts of themselves through the temples of Egypt and through all these beautiful countries. So that's our main offering. Um, and yeah, we also weave in our love-sex relationship magic in the process and truth and liberation and love, and it's all interconnected.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I love that. That's amazing, Debbie. Thank you so much, sis. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having this conversation with me. It's a really important one. And I just want to really uh acknowledge you for uh for coming on and being able to speak your truth and share that with other people and for them to find their own truth through those words.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Thank you so much for the invitation and the courage to go first. Yeah, so grateful. And I know the rest of the world is gonna be so grateful for you. Thank you for having me. Thanks, sis.