EP 16: A Conversation About Addiction, Sobriety & Self-Love with Graham Weiner

If you've been around here for a while, you know I don't do surface-level conversations. And this one with Graham? Absolutely no exception.

Graham is genuinely one of my favourite humans in Santa Teresa - the vibiest man I know, and somehow always the best dressed person in the room. But beyond the pink linen and pearls is someone who has done serious work on himself, and this conversation is a beautiful reflection of that.

Graham opens up about his journey with addiction - from smoking weed at 12 to fit in, through years of hard drugs, all the way to an intervention at 33 and three and a half years of sobriety. He talks about what it actually felt like to wake up in rehab and think this is exactly what I needed, how substances were quietly keeping him disconnected from himself and everyone around him, and what the word self-loathing really means when you're too happy-go-lucky to even realise it's happening.

We also get into the spiritual side of sobriety, the five realms of health, what it means to stay neutral rather than just chasing happiness, and the core wound that came up for Graham during an NLP and ECT session we did together - I'm good enough - and what's shifted for him since.

This one isn't just for people in recovery. It's for anyone who's ever used something - a drink, a relationship, a scroll through their phone - to avoid feeling what's actually there. It's a gentle, honest, and genuinely beautiful conversation about coming home to yourself.

Find Graham on instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/la.pantera.rosa.real?igsh=MzJrMm9uenR1OHN1

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Elvolve podcast where we have interesting and insightful conversations. I am joined by the coolest person in Santa Teresa, literally the vibeest man I know on the planet. His name's Graham. Graham's here to have a conversation with us, and it's going to be interesting and insightful.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I hope. Thank you so much for that introduction, Ellie.

unknown 0:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

So Graham is like seriously the best person in the world. And whenever he greets someone or introduces you to someone, he does the most insane introductions. And I was like trying to like really off the cuff do my best version of that. And I don't think I definitely didn't live up to your standard of intro, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

One of my favorites uh is the world famous Ellie Miles, which I firmly believe is true.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Thanks, Graham.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

World famous Ellie Miles.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

If you're seeing like a shorts right now, Graham is like where Graham has pink nails. He's got a pink watch on his left wrist, he's got a pink linen shirt unbuttoned with beautiful pink pearls around his neck. He's seriously like the vibeest person you could possibly meet. Like if you guys, once you listen to this, you're gonna be like, wow, this guy is a cool dude, and you're definitely gonna want to check him out on Instagram as well. So I'll make sure that I tag him in the show notes so that you can do so. But yay, I'm so happy you're here, and I'm so happy that we're finally doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Me too, Ellie. Honestly, I I I uh I love your work and your aesthetic and your contribution to the world, and uh it's an honor and a pleasure to be sitting here with you, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yay. So today we're gonna have a I think it's a pretty important conversation. I think lots of people are gonna relate to it, and um, we're gonna kind of talk about sobriety because for me personally, my journey with sobriety started after my first ayahuasca journey. That's when things kind of started to shift for me. I was like, oh, I couldn't imagine having a drink now. Um, and I did for about a year. I had like a bit of an old Ellie and new Ellie, totally battling it out. And um, now I've been sober for over two years, and it's been awesome, and definitely one of the best decisions that I've made for myself personally. And so, Gee, I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey with sobriety, and I think we're also going to touch on themes of addiction as well throughout this chat. And I'm super curious to hear a little bit more about you and your life and how things kind of kicked off.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Sure. Um, yeah, so I think that um kind of to think about it chronologically, um, is how I often tell the slightly longer form um story of um substance, the role of substance and uh and um addiction in my life. And so I think that um, yeah, you know, I just it was like the cool thing to do where I was growing up, um, to just be kind of like smoking weed and drinking from probably about like 12 years old. Um, and I think at that time a lot of it was about uh fitting in. So my last name is Wiener, which is a name that um in elementary school uh is and middle school and high school is a pretty um guaranteed way to get made fun of a little bit. And I was just a bit of a different kid um in general. Uh, you know, I was like uh glasses from the fourth, like I I got glasses probably when I in fourth grade. Um I had long hair, I was um not like overweight, but I was like, you know, teased for being chubby and was a little overweight, and you know, like prescription acne medication, uh, middle school and high school, and then I also wore a back brace for two years. And I was just a yeah, I like broke my back snowboarding and had to wear this back brace that was on the outside of outside of a shirt, and I would have to wear it like summer camp, playing lacrosse, like for basically two years. Um, and so I was just like uh a bit bullied, you know, bullied is was is like a pretty core trauma um for me that um I've done a lot of work on, but you know, I think that a lot of our our traumas uh you know, I I think that traumas are are always there to a certain extent. Um and so we have the bullying, and so I think like smoking weed and and and drinking was just a way to um fit in a little bit, kind of like be cool, reduce um some of the noise and social situations, and just kind of feel um cool, really. Um I think as I got older, I noticed that it increased uh confidence with women, which was like something that was very helpful to me at that time. Um, and I really stuck with that until I was probably about 16 or 17, and then started doing um like hard drugs at that point, and that took me um, you know, went to university, was playing lacrosse on a scholarship in college, and uh um still abusing substances at that time. And it they just like my life was okay um, you know, from the outside, and it was relatively socially um acceptable, and it was probably like consistent with how most of my friends were parting um at that time. And um, you know, I think like long story short, basically it just uh they this substances kind of like one would stop working, so I would switch over to a different hard drug, and then after a couple years of doing that, it would start to produce bad results, and so I would switch over to another one, and there was basically none left to do. And I finally started, um, you know, after living here for a few years, and I and and uh uh like running out of drugs to do basically. I just um had enough negative stimulus where uh the people around me like decided that I should have an intervention and go to rehab, and I thought it was a great idea, and I loved rehab and um wish I could go back once a year, and uh it's it's it's been amazing. It's about so it's been about three and a half years of sobriety, and uh that is the story of me in addiction, at least.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Wow, yeah. When you were a kid, I want to take it back a little bit. Like the people that you were trying to fit in with, like when you were kind of like 12, 13, 14, like those early years in high school, like were they all doing were they all smoking weed and drinking alcohol and stuff? Like, did it get you the I guess the sense of belonging? Like, were they more accepting of you because you were doing those things at that age?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Pretty much, yeah. Like, um, I probably had some friends that were not doing those things, but I had this idea that I wanted to be part of the group of kids that were doing those things.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Interesting. My sister got me drunk when I was 11. Was I I was 11 or 12, so I totally get it. But isn't it weird kind of like looking back on life, looking back at that little kid, like literally a child, and being like, for me anyway, I look back and I look at little Ellie that got drunk when she was 13, and I'm just like, what the fuck? Like it it kind of blows my mind a little bit, and when I think about having kids myself, having young teenagers, I just be like, oh my gosh, please don't do what I did to my brain, to your brain, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, I get what you mean. You know, I like I don't tell people not to um do drugs and and drink, and I don't really regret it for myself either. Um like when people reach out that are struggling with addiction um and and want help with substance abuse, and now that's become also like uh people who reach out about uh codependency and a lot of other things that uh a certain like 12-step program covers. Um uh there's really a lot of things in that category, but I I help people with their addictions now, and um otherwise I don't really have a firm stance like people should be doing something or not be doing something. And I think everyone has their own journey. I think for me it was those things were necessary at the time um to get to where I am now. Um, and so yeah, I mean it's it's hard to say what is right or wrong for someone's journey.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah, I can make sense of what you're saying. It sounds like you kind of look back at past versions of yourself and you're like, hey, you were just doing the best that you can that you could at the time, and I accept you. Like that's kind of how that the way you were speaking to that, I guess translated to me at least. It's like a no regrets.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no regrets. Um, I I never think of it with that language, um, but as far as the no regrets part, but yeah, I don't I don't regret it. I do think I was doing the best um with the tools that I had at the time, and I think that um the experiences and perspectives and kind of the identities that went along with each kind of chapter of my substance abuse career um were like uh necessary for me to advance to the next stage. And then that stage eventually for me was just um sobriety and all the things that come with you know regular adult life.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

What have been what have some of the I guess improvements been in your life that you've noticed since you've become sober?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Right. So everything is a lot better for me. Um I have probably gained about 40 pounds, probably of all muscle. As cliche as that sounds, it's really actually true. Um I think that emotionally, um, you know, I'm able to grow in each of the realms of health. So, to my understanding, the realms of health are like physical health, social health, um, emotional health, um, mental health, and then the the most important one for me is spiritual health. And so there's significantly better health across all of those, and then there's also the ability to actually legitimately kind of grow um within each of those, uh because I for me, like when substances was part of the picture, they were just a very influential um like uh a very influential part of my life. And so if something bad would happen or if something good would happen, they would be part of the picture. And so those experiences that were happening, um, growth experiences, whether from negative or positive stimulus, were still being kind of muted, um, and lessons were not really being learned. Um, things just weren't being kind of like stored and integrated properly because the you know, because I I wasn't really entirely there, or there was a version of me there that was with the inclusion of you know very powerful substances. And um yeah, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I'm picking up what you're saying. Um it's kind of like when you're in that stage of your life and you're actively like taking drugs, it's almost like you were dissociated or disconnected in a way you weren't actually like fully clear and fully absorbing life. Is that is that kind of what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Um yeah, I would say that is correct. Yeah. Like, you know, there's there's there's certain types of um hard drugs that are like disassociatives, and then there's stimulants and there's painkillers and all these different things. Um and so some of them were very like specifically disassociative, and in other cases, you know, I might have been hyper-stimulated or kind of like numb. Um energetically, I think all different, you know, different substances do different things, you know, including alcohol, including um you know, weed, and and all of them really. And so they they each had like um a contributing role to my energy and my consciousness at that time, and I was kind of had different chapters with different ones, and so um the with sobriety, there's also a lot more consistency and a lot more fluidity between things that are happening. Um, and so I there's been a like I I feel like I've grown a lot over the last three and a half years of sobriety. Um, and there's still chapters within it where my energy has dominant themes, but at least that's kind of like internal and also reflective of my relationship with a higher power. So in my case, I'm thinking about that as um I refer I like to refer to that as God. Um, and so there's dominant themes that I, you know, with the way I talk to myself and the way that I behave throughout the day and stuff, but those things are being um you know remembered and are contributing to the uh you know to a more like holistic and comprehensive way that I um you know engage with myself and the world um and God.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, yeah, cool. Now that you have, I guess, really embraced sobriety, is there a chance you'd ever go back?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

There is definitely not a chance that I would ever go back.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I did not know what you were gonna say there. I was like, is he gonna say there's definitely a chance I would? I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah, no, there's no way that I would. Um I just I there's so many things I enjoy now. I never think about it. A lot of my friends still do hard drugs, I still go out partying, I um, you know, do all-nighters and stuff, and I uh, you know, I'm around drugs, and I it just is never tempting. I never think about it. I don't think, ooh, that's gross. I also do don't think, oh, that would be nice. It just um it's it's important for me like not to be uh judgmental. You know, there's the like uh something can creep in where it's like um I'm better because I don't. Um and I definitely, you know, am try to stay on top of myself with with that one, but I it doesn't require much like discipline or or or anything, actually. It just feels so good to be sober, so it I it just never really um crosses my mind at all.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

I was just as you're saying that and something you were saying before, I was kind of reflecting on the timelines of different stages of my life and this chapter of sobriety, like when that began, and I guess it's been the catalyst for a lot of like transformation and inner work and growth, yeah, a lot of identity shifting from like within though these chapters. And I feel like I've been this version of me for a long time, and when I look back on the chapter of where I was actually taking drugs and drinking and partying and stuff, that feels like a much shorter chapter for me, which is super interesting. So I I wonder whether, from a timeline perspective, how that feels for you. Do you feel like you've been this version of you? Does it feel like a longer stretch of time than it did when you were actually taking drugs and partying and doing all of that?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

You know, in a lot of ways it does, just because um I'm so you know, uh days feel so full now, um, and I'm so much more conscious um throughout the day and of my life in general. And so um things are a little bit blurry with uh substances, you know, and I had a lot of really um, you know, good times and uh, you know, like um very valid experiences, but it just things are so much more colorful and so much richer now that um it does feel like more. Life feels like more rather than um feeling kind of like less, basically.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, super interesting. Hmm. I had a question that just popped into my mind and it sprung away. It was about come on, brain. That was a good one. I was excited to ask that. It's alright, it's gonna come back. It'll come back.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, it always meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Exactly. That's what I say. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe I'm not meant to ask that question if it's just dissolved out of my brain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

My favorite color is pink, if that was the question.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

I already knew the answer to that.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Okay. So maybe that wasn't it.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Hmm. Yeah. Super interesting. What do you what's I guess been what's been the best thing that's oh I've got it! Yes, brain, you're the best. Yes, you're the best brain. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. So it I also agree with what you were saying before around having had like lots of really cool fun experiences like when taking drugs and partying and stuff. And when I reflect on those times and the connections that I made at those times, and like, you know, I'd find myself like in someone's kitchen or laundry or fucking bathroom or whatever, and you're having a DNM with someone, and you like open up and you share all of these amazing things, and you like connect, and then it's like something weird would happen where it would be almost like the next day, and it was almost like, oh, did that mean did that really mean anything? Do you know what I mean? It was kind of like the authenticity of that moment felt kind of subdued because there was drugs and alcohol involved. This is my experience anyway, and so what I've observed now being sober and being able to connect with people, and I'm I'm really an open book when it comes to to sharing and um going deep with people. I mean, it is the nature of the work that I do, so it feels really comfortable for me now, but it feels like the connection and that moment is maintained because it's been shared in sobriety for me personally, and I I wonder how you feel about that and yeah, whether you agree or whether you disagree with that.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Sure. Um, you know, it's just like I think it feels like to me like a different frequency. So when you're partying like a rock star or living like a pirate, um, you know, there's just things that happen. And um one of those is like random uh conversations about nothing, and it's just like a different frequency. I don't think about it as bad or good for me. I think about it as I prefer my life um now. Um back then, you know, that version of me probably didn't want to be always kind of like feeling like I'm spreading love and light and learning about what people have to say and connecting on a deeper level, even if it's with just random people that you're passing in the street. That person, that version of me probably wasn't able to access that. And so it probably felt good to just have company to a certain extent, have people around, be sharing things. I would often wake up from hangovers or from benders or from um, you know, long nights with random people, and something didn't feel good about that. Um I didn't haven't thought about that much throughout um the my my years sober, but I think that if I think about it now, I think it's something like you know, maybe that was kind of like God indicating to me that. Um, those experiences were not um it for me. You know, if things feel so good when you're on drugs and when you're drinking and all that stuff, and then when they go away, things feel particularly bad. Um, or they, you know, used to for me at least. I I would have like a come down or a hangover or something like that. And I think that was kind of nature's way of like balancing it out. Um, because they are those are those things are you know short-lived and external and only accessible via ingesting a substance. And so um, yeah, I mean, God knows how many random experiences and conversations and people I met that I um don't remember, and um you know, it was a it was fun and it was a great time, and you know, um eventually it wasn't, and I wanted something else um for myself, really.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

You said something interesting before you were like you don't think the version of you back then was able to access what you were describing as I guess to summarize, maybe like human connection. What do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I think that I was very disconnected from myself. You know, I don't know about young people in general, um, but my guess is that you know, as a child and as as an adolescent and a teenager, you know, um you only have so much access to self-knowledge and self-awareness. What are the feelings that I want to feel in my body as far as um feeling love, feeling expansion, warmth, you know, all these things that I now um want. I probably wanted those things at that age too, but um, you know, wasn't able to verbalize that, or I maybe I thought the the way to access those things was like by being in the cool kid group, or like um or by being, you know. I I don't know. I I I think they were maybe like they were more superficial and and and and less grounded. And so, you know, I don't know, you know, I think every every person must reach clarity on on the ways they want to feel and at a different point in their life, I guess. Um and for me, it was like uh sobriety was that moment, you know, just a couple days into the rehab center, I just was thinking like basically like this feels amazing to just be feeling things, whether they're good things or bad things, and just kind of this feeling like okay, bad experiences are gonna contribute to growth and to learning, and uh good experiences are going to um, you know, mm make the make the journey, you know, more enjoyable. And I can I can make other people's lives um, you know, I can I can I can spread joy and love and things like that when I feel them within myself. And so that was an exciting, you know, thing to to to feel.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

When when you had the intervention, when who who like staged that intervention for you? What people in your life?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Um, it was basically uh my mom and the owner of a farm that I manage.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah. What was that like?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Honestly, I think I was really ready. I think I I I it was relatively crowd, you know, cloudy memory because I was probably on three to five different substances, like at the actual time of the intervention. But um uh the way that I remember it and it's described to me is that I was initially a bit shocked and uh sad as evidenced um from like uh crying basically, and then just kind of really liked the idea and um you know was explained the nature of it and uh as far as like not having my phone, I have to pack my things, there's gonna be you know therapists and three meals a day and gonna do all this different work and stuff. And I just thought that sounds amazing. That's what I need right now. I don't I want to be, I want my phone to be taken away. I want a consistent bedtime. I want to, you know, I just it all sounded great. I was like, I I was 33 years old. I just probably thought like, okay, I've got a lot of stuff that I probably need to work on, and I would like help doing that. And I probably hadn't taken really like a real vacation. I mean, my life was like kind of a vacation, but I was also like hustling quite a bit and like working on a lot of projects um that I that I still work on now, actually, which is really lucky that they ended up working out, but um I hadn't really taken a vacation either, so I was just like, you know, instantly like that feels really like I I love that idea, and that was really it.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

That's amazing. Did you have thoughts in the lead up to that? Like, was there a point before the intervention where you ever had moments of this has got to stop or this isn't it, or this doesn't feel good anymore? Was there any of that, or was there were you kind of just like blissfully unaware?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Right. Um not willing to see it. Yeah, you know, I was you know smart enough to realize some pretty obvious signs. You know, I was like 16 and like uh crashed a car, which was which could have been a lot worse, but wasn't. Um there's like bar fights, you know, um things with uh like my romantic relationships, like things that would happen as a result of being drunk or high that were very unpleasant. And I just I knew it wasn't good for my body or my mind or my relationship with my family, things that um were important to me. And I think I just kind of felt like it was the only way, basically. So maybe there was a bit of rationalization, like I'm gonna stop at some point, or um, I'm you know, my life is still gonna work out okay despite all the negative uh feedback that I get from abusing substances. Um, I think kind of a mix of like putting it off and and and rationalizing it, lying to myself a bit, like I'm gonna be able to figure this out. Um, and and also just knowing like this has a very devastating impact and you know, bad things happen as a result of this habit. Um, but feeling probably like just kind of stuck in it as well, you know, starting to learn how to navigate life um with alcohol and weed at such a young age, you know, I kind of just developed a pattern and uh a bit of a reliance on it, even if it was just like a weekend habit for um a lot of that time. And even if things were going pretty well outside of that, it was still like a you know, a weekly stress relief, or you know, um some, you know, uh if there was some sort of social anxiety or something, then like okay, socializing will be fun. And suddenly, you know, everything is kind of um connected to uh drugs and alcohol, really. And so I just kind of didn't realize how deep that was. Um, probably felt stuck in it, some avoidance, denial, all the good things. Um definitely a lot of denial.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

It's pretty wild. Like when we look at our culture, it's so ingrained and it's so normal, right? Like, I've definitely come from a background where it's normal and it's how people connect and it's how people de stress, and it's the only way people can have fun and actually let their hair out, let their inner child, let their let their hair out, let their hair down, let their inner child out. And now that I've I'm on the other side of that, it seems fucking wild, and it's it's quite sad. I I I find it to be I feel sad for people that are existing in that box because I do see it as a bit of a box. It's like this is the only way that I can have fun, this is what I need at the end of the day to de-stress, or this is the way that I get courage to go on a date, or to say the thing that I need to say to my partner. Like it's it's pretty sad when you actually think about that some people are existing in that.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, you know, it does feel sad to me, but I I you know I I don't judge people for for doing that stuff, and I'm I'm not saying that uh, you know, you do, but you know, I think it's okay to feel badly for people who are it's like compassion, yeah, compassion, right? So there's a compassion energy, and um yeah, I think that something I've I noticed is like even for people who are what what what what's referred to as like social drinkers, meaning so like they drink a little bit when they go out to dinner or when they um you know had a hard day, or if they're gonna go to a party, I just wonder for those people like how much growth is available to them if they were to um do those things sober and um kind of feel uncomfortable and then go back and process it and kind of grow within that uh that that framework of sobriety and and be able to access higher levels of um fun, of enjoyment, and you you know, like via uh self-love, all kind of while um, you know, protecting your body, because like drugs and alcohol are not good for your body, you know, no matter how you no matter how you you know flip it.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, it's just bottom line, bottom line, right? It's just not good for your body, your body does not like it. I remember when we're first chatting about having this conversation, you raised you spoke about self-loathing as well. In um, I guess in in connection to drugs and alcohol or addiction, or I'm curious um if you could expand on that a little bit for us. And yeah, I'd love to explore that.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, I love that topic. I love um that term self-loathing. I think that I didn't realize that I was being self-loathing um with substance abuse, and so I think of self-loathing as kind of like the opposite of self-love. Yeah, and I think of self-love as like the best feeling ever.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Um what does self-love look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yeah, so self-love for me is about tending to all those five realms of health: spiritual health, physical health, social health, emotional health, mental health. Um, it's about being uh compassionate for myself. It's about having a connection with God, and as a result, being able to show up fully for um the people that matter most to me, and then also just um strangers and and even like the collective unconscious of humanity and you know, mother nature itself. Um, I think that God wants us to love ourselves so we can um, you know, contribute to all of those things, and and uh I think that self-loathing, um, you know, I was like a pretty happy-go-lucky person while I was abusing substances, and so it wasn't like I was hateful or doing, you know, bad things to people or to myself or was like um clinically depressed or something, but it was more like I didn't realize that I wasn't accepting so much about myself and sending this message like you feel this way, and that's not okay, and you need to take this substance in order to feel better or make that go away, and instead of saying, like, okay, you feel scared, sad, uncomfortable. Um, you know, that is okay, and how would you like to um integrate that? And and um, and so I yeah, um that's kind of what it feels like on a most on the most base level. Just like not honoring yourself, definitely not honoring myself, definitely not honoring um, you know, the potential of like who could be as well, right? Yeah, yeah, future self. Um, yeah, definitely not honoring my myself in the moment, definitely not honoring the future version of myself, and just not taking seriously and and the what it is to just be alive, really. Like it's such a gift to be um born and um you know kind of you know, in my case, it's like I I was very close with my or I'm very close with my my family, and um, you know, not not honoring the you know the the work and effort and love that like my family and people close to me were feeling and kind of just um you know it was definitely starting with me not honoring myself, but as a you know, as a result, you know, and and and also kind of a symbiotic thing was just not honoring anyone else either, really, even if it was just like not being present.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Uh yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So interesting. So would you say that your I guess intervention and then time and rehab was that an awakening of sorts for you? Or maybe you want to use it, maybe there's a different word that feels better.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

You know, I don't think of it as an awakening, but I think it definitely was. Um there was a lot of things that were awakened, you know. Um in the most literal sense, you know, like my senses were being awakened, and so I was just like feeling what it felt like to be a human in a lot of ways. There was so much numbing and hyper stimulation and cycles of substances. So when so much of my thoughts um and behavior was was related to um when the next party was gonna be, or when am I gonna like meet up with a dealer and you know what am I gonna do this day as it relates to substances? Just to kind of be was um definitely an awakening. Um to sit with my thoughts, to breathe, to you know, feel things and um kind of like remember them and build cohesion. It was all new, and so I guess in that way I I would think of it as an awakening.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

It's almost like it opened up so much for you, in the sense that it's like you can even think of it in in the terms of like if you're in a relationship that's toxic or not great, or in like a relationship where you're infatuated and it takes up all of your energy and like your entire thought processes on this person, and then once that dissolves or dies, yeah, once that no longer exists in your reality, it frees up so much time and energy and space for other things to actually show up. And so I think for a lot of people, like if you're in a situation whether it is a relationship or whether it is to do with substances, it's like I wonder what would open up for you. Because like while there is certainly a level of shedding and letting go of the old, and there can be grief that comes with that, fuck, you're also opening up some really exciting new doors. And maybe you can't see that right now.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Yeah, you know, it's just uh it's like um it's a great analogy, the the toxic relationship thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Um I think a lot of people can relate to that one.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, you know, it since sobriety, I had a challenging relationship that I um sometimes think of as toxic, although I like to think of myself as like a willing participant in that dynamic. And so, and I just don't I try not to allow myself to kind of code it as toxic, but based on the way that people understand toxic, I would say that substances is very much like that. If it it feels it felt like to me, like um, you know, I was kind of stuck in something without even kind of realizing it. And um you know, I think that's a big part about addiction, is like it's it's a kind of like an obsession that you don't realize that you have. Um you kind of become obs I or I I kind of became obsessed with um something that wasn't really serving me that I didn't really want, actually. Um and you know, it yeah, it I mean it took for me, it took going to rehab. Um and then since sober with that uh with the challenging relationship that I had it um when I decided to leave that, I was you know, I was getting a lot of feedback from friends and family, like it was probably not serving me, and it wasn't anything extreme, but it was just like it wasn't really going anywhere. There was a lot of negative things happening really, and I wasn't able to step outside and see that. And once I did, I just um felt a lot better. Similar to substances, it was like feeling a little bit of nostalgia and sadness at the time of something ending, um, but the dominant feeling was like uh expansion. And so it for me, it was uh about a lot of like sitting with fear and confidence at the same time, or good and bad feelings, letting them both exist. And um, even if the the good the the good bit um felt smaller at times, um, you know, I just kind of uh knew that it would grow, and that was enough to not really focus on the negative, allow myself to feel the negative, but uh kind of like keep that bit of hope and faith that I was like aligned and and on the right path.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

I like that. Wow, what a journey, hey, like life, the different seasons that we go through. It's honestly crazy.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah, it's such a blessing. You know, it's an it's an amazing blessing to feel, um, whether they're good things or bad things. It's just I I like to um thank myself for feeling all the time. You know, when I'm feeling when I'm feeling what we would code as negative emotions uh as well as positive, I just like to say thank you for feeling to myself. And that is something that is really uh helpful for me.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

And has that been something that you've learned to appreciate because there was a period of time where you weren't maybe you weren't feeling much?

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah, you know, I was just not feeling as much because um, you know, there were chemicals in my body that were distorting feelings and producing their own feelings, and um and then even going into sobriety, like uh, you know, it's been a learning process over the last three and a half years to kind of feel feelings, and so taking taking drugs and alcohol out of the picture, it's still been a journey and still is a journey on um kind of staying neutral, like uh so not focusing on being happy or sad. Um, what I try to focus on and what I think feels the best to me is um like uh what I think is understood as like serenity or peace, or kind of like being neutral. I think that that is what a lot of religions like Buddhism um are saying when they're talking about things like enlightenment. Um it's kind of not about being happy, it's kind of like being aware and conscious, no matter uh what's happening. So despite you know, like good or or bad things happening, it's kind of just like staying in the middle, observing, feeling, and returning back um to the center. Because I think for me, I can get, you know, I'm pretty much always happy and was when I was um using drugs as well. You know, I was pretty much happy all the time too. The lows would be low, but they for me personally they were always very short. And so feeling good is also something I need to be wary of. When I say good, I mean like happy, you know. So if something good happens, or if I'm getting, you know, some kind of brain chemicals from a positive interaction. With someone, it's easy for me to forget the next thing I'm supposed to be doing. Or, you know, suddenly I am letting myself off the hook for a different task, which requires more discipline and steady focus and calm to do. And I'm just leaning into good feelings and then I'm chasing the next thing. And um, and so even in sobriety, it's important for me to just feel things, let them go, and return to a neutral kind of like state of awareness.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Interesting. That's really cool. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Thanks. Thanks, Ellie. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Wow. Wow. So if if you could, I guess, picture little Graham, and it was so sweet. Like as you were describing him before, I was just like seeing little Ellie, and she was also chubby. She used to wear a beanie to school every day with her school uniform.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

I remember you told me that.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

I wonder, like, what would you if you could say something to him, like what would he have needed to hear?

SPEAKER_01 45:11

I think that um as we uncovered during a during like a healing session that we that we did um with Ellie, that was like NLP and ECT. I think that what needed to come through was that I'm good enough. That would have been very helpful. And I'm still working on that, is what we found basically.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Yeah. Oh, I think little that was little Ellie's thing too. She just didn't feel good enough. And it's funny, it's like as we grow and we enter new stages of life. I like to think of life as a game, and we have different levels, and it's like we kind of complete this level or this chapter, and it's like, yeah, I'm good enough. And then you go to the next one, and it's like, oh, I've got to I get to, I guess, face that again, just on a different level. So I guess a good way to think about it could be like business, and it's like, okay, cool, my business is at this level, and then okay, now I'm going on to this next level in business where maybe I'm now encountering competitors in the market, and then it's like, oh shit, there's the I'm not good enough feeling again. And it's like, oh, I've gotta, I've gotta navigate that again at this level, right? So it's fun, it's like it's like the core wound, and we get to keep experiencing it and like rediscovering who we are and meeting ourselves in new depths of recognition that it's like I am good enough. Just keeps affirming.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah, it's so helpful for me. It's just a good way for me to figure out how I want to approach any situation, kind of like the various situations that you were mentioning regarding work or regarding um like how to structure an individual day or a training session at the gym. Um it's just so central, like uh really to the core, as you said, um for me personally, it's just remembering that I'm uh good enough.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amazing. I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. It's a fun journey we're on.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah, it sure is. Hopefully, not too fun. You gotta keep it right in the middle, nice and neutral.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

I don't necessarily agree with you on that one.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Yeah, you are good at fun, Ellie. Ellie is good at fun.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

I think you are as well. You take it.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

I'm potentially too good at fun. Don't get anything done.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Um that was like us last week. We came here to do this podcast, and we just chatted for like two and a half, three hours and didn't even do it.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Well, the power did go out.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

It wasn't meant to happen then.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

No, yeah, I think the power went out for a reason, and um, you know, and then we had fun with that uh and and and made the made the best out of that, and it was really like a very powerful experience for me, the uh the treatment session there.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

What have you noticed like since then?

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Um big one coming through is just that it is good for me to remember that I'm good enough.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Um, and I tr and I'm trying not to really be too analytical with it. I think just the more I remember that and internalize that feeling in my body, the better um that, you know, the better I'm feeling and the more aligned I am and um the more kind of flowy like my day is feeling.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

What's it opened up for you?

SPEAKER_01 49:04

I would say that it has opened up more expansion, more love, um, probably better performance, um whether it's in the gym or with relationships, um, or with myself. Um so really kind of like everything. And it's not like it's fully opened it up, but it's but it's proven in just a few days of of having integrated that to be a really useful tool. And I have zero doubt that um it will continue to be a good tool. In fact, I think the more that I use that tool, um, the better, like from now until forever, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

That's so cool. Because it's kind of like um when we start to dissolve these limitations or limiting beliefs, it opens up more doors of possibility for us, which is super, super cool. And so I was curious whether specifically around business, whether there was anything that you noticed uh to unfold after the session, whether you've whether anything's come up in your awareness um around that.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yeah, so for me personally, when I am living with a with the the most amount of kind of self-love um and alignment, um everything is going better. So um I'm getting better ideas, um, I'm faster, stronger, or you know, better listener. Um it's it's like all of those tools are very helpful for me in my different, you know, my various business things. Like um, I do things that are like creative and other things that are more like entrepreneurial, other things that are, you know, more cyclical, like farming, it's like the same thing in a lot of ways. And so it doesn't really matter what it is, like it's really helpful for me to be um living in in alignment with a lot of self-love. And that core wound that we identified of being um good enough, whatever that means exactly, it feels like it speaks exactly to the issue, but it's really helpful to remember that because it it increases alignment and and and opens up more self-love and performance across every possible metric is better in that regard.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Same.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Same.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

I'm good enough.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Yeah, you are. Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Thank you, Ellie.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

It's so cool in the sense as well. Like when I reflect on the start of my journey and doing all of this work and like specifically the unconscious change work. I remember a point in my life when I would think about, for example, like the love of my life and like getting married and the idea, like the picture that I had of that relationship. I just had these feelings of like, oh, you're never gonna get that. Like it was just like this undercurrent of that's not for you. Even though, like consciously I was like, that's what I want. It was just this deep feeling of nope. And then as I've peeled back the layers and I've dissolved the different beliefs, now it just feels like it's already done. And so we can look at that in all areas of our life when it comes to doing inner work as well. Like if you're looking at business things and it's like, oh, um my business is gonna make half a million dollars this year, you know, like whether that feels good or not in your body is a clue. And if it doesn't feel good, then there's probably some deeper work that you need to do on yourself so that does get to feel good because it does, because ultimately we can have whatever we want. We just need to believe it. And there could be a belief that says, like deep down that no, you can't have whatever you want.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Right. And it's almost like I am able to identify things that I actually actually do legitimately want when I'm coming from the perspective of I'm good enough.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Kind of like what you were saying, you know, if it doesn't feel good in the body, um, then that is a good indicator that um, you know, if you doesn't believe it, doesn't want it, you know, it's it wouldn't be good for me. And when I'm remembering that I'm good enough, when I'm living in alignment and um uh you know, with a lot of self-love and um and kind of like truth, truth is a big thing too. You know, um for me it's really important to to to keep things super honest. It's easy for me to kind of um convince myself that some that that I do want something that I actually don't, or that I can do something that you know there's actually certain steps required in order to access that thing, and it doesn't make sense for me to have right now. And um the the the the good enough thing just kind of brings, you know, really has a positive impact on alignment, self-love, and um you know, kind of like self-awareness and self-honesty or or truth. Um you know?

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And there are steps. Do you know what I mean? It's like there are steps that we need to do in order to get the thing that we want, right? Like you can't just think in your brain, oh, I want spaghetti bolognese for dinner tonight, and then expect it to be done within a second, within you clicking your fingers, right? Like you gotta do the steps.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Yeah, like something that's coming to mind is like the other, like a month ago, I tried to squat 500 pounds. And my my squat at that point in time.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

How many kilos is that?

SPEAKER_01 55:27

I don't know. Like maybe 250 or something, or like two between 200 and 250. And so, like, I need to be able to squat like you know, a little bit less than that first. And so um, you know, I might want that and think, you know, I kind of went in the gym and and it's fine that I tried it or whatever. Um, but there was like a little bit of disappointment when I didn't hit that, and and I and it, and I just kind of had to get you know realigned and just kind of say, like, okay, you know, have to work up to that a little bit. Um, and uh and that felt better, you know. There was a there was like a trial, a failure, a little bit of humility.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Um, and so it's like you had to become the person that could do it first, gotta be the thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

You know, like that's something I think about too. It's like being the thing.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

Yeah, not just like talking about the thing or wanting the thing, but just literally being the thing. Like, so in my case, it's like being the thing that is good enough.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

So when you're thinking about like wanting to attract the ideal partner or um business, business success or social media growth, whatever it is, you can't just time travel to the end destination. Like you've got to become it. And there's a journey. There's a journey of growth in all of that.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

There really is, and it's a lot of it for me is like spiritual growth that that kind of radiates outward. And so something like um identifying like a core limiting belief, like I'm not good enough, um, you know, is like a step that unlocks a lot of other steps and and makes more clear what the steps are. And um, you know, is just the the kind of spiritual healing and spiritual health component, I can't emphasize enough like how big that is for me, like going in the rehab center, remembering like to love myself, you know, like you know, this is like something set you know, something very off for me prior to that was like enjoying life, doing drugs, and living you know, primarily in self-loathing, you know. Um and just kind of like for me that fits into the spiritual health category. And uh, you know, like the the the the the being enough thing. It's like it's hard to say exactly what that feels like, but it feels good, you know, on like deep down.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Does it feel lighter?

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Definitely feels lighter and and like more grounding at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

It's like everything good at once, really. Yeah, is how it would describe a lot of different spiritual health stuff.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

It's like you've put something down that you didn't realize was so heavy. And in a sense, it's created space, it's created expansion and possibilities, it's created a sense of lightness and almost like liberation, while also feels deeply grounding, like this is who you were always meant to be. This is who you are at your core. You just had some almost like a little parasite stuck to you. You had something latched onto you that wasn't actually the truth.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Yeah, I I think all of that um makes a lot of sense. It feels like all that and more.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Yeah.

unknown 59:24

You know.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

What would you I think we'll round we'll call we'll round things up now. And I guess no. I'd I'd be curious and I'd love for you to share. Like, what would your one piece of advice be to someone who's maybe feeling a little bit stuck in life where they're at right now, whether it's to do with relationship or drugs, alcohol addiction, um, career, inspiration, what's something that you could offer them that would maybe feel supportive?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

I think just you know, to to love yourself and figure out what that looks like for you. And if you are not sure what that is, then you know you can type into AI, and I really like Claude. You know, I'd I recommend this to people. Um, is just ask, you know, the AI platform of your choice for a list of things that um can help you increase self-love, basically.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Amazing, yeah, yeah, and just start playing with those.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Yeah, just do them. Figure, you know, being becoming honest about what self-love is and and what is not contributing to that in your life and uh what is.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Yeah, I like that. I like that. Maybe there's like a little bit of like you said, a little bit of reflection of like what doesn't feel good, maybe getting rid of that. And if you don't know what feels good, use AI and just start experimenting and see what see what feels good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Yeah, just practicing leaning into what feels good and like truly good.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

And what feels good in your body, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

I love that. Thanks, G.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Thank you, Ellie.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Thanks, G.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Thanks, Grazie.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

Thanks so much for listening, guys. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

See you next time.