Charged Moments: When tension becomes the turning point with special guest Jen Campion

In this episode of Teams Transformed, Georgina and Allard are joined by Jen Campion, an Executive and Team Coach with a background in strategy and organisational change. Working across public and private sectors, Jen supports leaders and teams navigating complexity and change. Her practice is grounded in Gestalt—slowing down, paying attention, and creating the conditions for honest dialogue and meaningful shifts in how teams work together.

Jen shares a powerful story from a team session where a team member voiced a strong opinion that created palpable tension—one of those charged moments that often get smoothed over too quickly. Reflecting on her own unusually strong intervention, Jen explores what it means to stay with the energy in the room and use it as a doorway to deeper team learning and growth.

You’ll discover:

·         How to recognise and work with charged moments in team conversations.

·         Why pausing and developing open awareness can unlock deeper dialogue.

·         How coaches can navigate strong emotions without shutting them down.

·         The importance of ongoing inner work, self-acceptance, and supervision for coaches.

·         How presence and vulnerability can catalyse powerful shifts in team dynamics.

This episode offers rich insight for team coaches and leaders alike, reminding us that the moments that feel most uncomfortable often hold the greatest potential for awareness, learning, and transformation.

Brought to you by Team Coaching Studio - The world’s leading academy for team coaching. To find out more about us visit https://teamcoachingstudio.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Teams Transformed, the podcast for people who want to see real team transformation.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

For courageous coaches, curious leaders, and anyone passionate about unlocking the true power of teams.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

We're your hosts, Georgina and Al Art. Here to journey with you through transformational insights on how to coach teams with presence, depth, and emergence.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Let's explore not just the tools but the art of transforming teams.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

In this episode, we talk with Jen Campion about a moment of emergence that supported a team in feeling heard, growing their capacity to share contrasting points of view, as well as the importance of vertical development for ourselves as practitioners. Hi Jen.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Welcome to our podcast. Thank you. Delighted to be here and great to be with you both because I think I've been with each of you in different ways over the last number of months, but here we are together.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Jen. And hi, Georginia.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I'm excited to get into conversation with you, Jen, and find out a bit about moments of emergence that have happened in your practice. Before we do, um, what what would you what would you like the listener to know about you in in short?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Um, I think uh that uh my coaching practice, I suppose, has been grounded in gestalt, as I know much of TCS um teachings have been as well. So that's a lens I suppose I I come in with. And also a background of 15 years in consulting, so very facilitative orientation and coming with the answer and recommendations. Um so unlearning a lot of that is has been a core part of my practice too. Yeah. And um then just generally, my work, I suppose, is across quite a broad range of teams in terms of their level in the organization, their industries, kind of geographically dispersed teams or teams that are kind of very much um full-time in the office. So quite a broad range of teams that I work with. I wouldn't say of a a niche um industry or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Great. That's uh yeah. I like I like the the breadth there. You know, I I I work with a broad range of teams or have done over the years, and I find it really interesting. So maybe that will come out. Uh the different sort of lenses that we bring. Um, yeah, but you know, what we want to talk about today is is a moment, you know. Can you recall a time in your work with a team when something unexpected happened, something shifted, something emerged that sticks in your mind? We'd love to hear about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Yeah. So when I was uh uh thinking, I'm and part of I suppose of my own development of the last kind of 18 months has been paying attention to those moments of emergence. And there's probably there were two moments that came up, and it was maybe the contrast between them that um helped me learn parts of myself and my practice. But I'll stick with one. And um I kind of think of it as the more sparky emergence in that we were working with a team and doing something, can't remember what, um, and we probably a second or third team coaching session, and one of the team members quite emotively shared a point of view, which kind of had a uh nonverbal reaction in the room, but no one commented a moment of pause and then picked back up where where the conversation was going. And so I felt charged by this of kind of nearly I probably came in with quite a strong stance of hang on a second there. Um kind of Mary shared a point there. Um, I'm wondering, I can't even remember the language that I use, but I do remember that kind of feeling charged by the moment and coming in quite strong, uh, which probably wouldn't be my natural range. So I think the strength or the kind of force that I came in with kind of spooked myself a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Um, so I kind of noticed that in my presence and um in some way invited other team members to share kind of does did that have any reaction for for any of you? And uh one of the team members did share both her first her kind of how it landed with her and hearing how it was shared by Mary, and which made it hard for her to hear, but also a level of kind of understanding of where Mary was coming from. So it was, I think, a short moment. It's kind of what I would call it both my energy behind it, their energy behind it, but it was quite a short moment. And I suppose the reason why I picked it up um for this today is it was the start of something bigger in the team coaching journey, which was around um both feeling heard or understood, and how we share kind of contrasting point of views in the team, that kind of both how it was offered and how it was received was a real challenge and a point of friction for the team. But they would always just move on from it. And in essence, that's what happened. It was such a short moment. We moved on, and I didn't stay with it in that moment, but I think it was the start of that bigger theme and gave it a doorway, I suppose, in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

And uh just out of curiosity, uh Jen, you said in your introduction today that you do part of your work online, right? In ver virtual and um um and and part of it live, right? In person with physically all together and uh well that that that's something I'd like to come back to anyway at one point if it's okay. But the in this particular instance, uh, which was it? Were you working online?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

This was in person, yeah. In person.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, I'm I'm asking because do you because do you feel that it's easier to pick up on those things when you're working with people in on uh live or online, or I feel it's just different.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Um in person, there's probably a stronger felt sense of it, or you just notice something maybe not so sure what. Um, and so kind of tuning into that charge reaction or that kind of what's happening in me. I feel though virtually I probably find it easier to move into kind of that open awareness. I'm because you can kind of see all the faces in front of you on the screen, and so it kind of feels easier to take in the whole. Whereas sometimes in the room, I might get too kind of drawn to one or two members or something happening here. I suppose on virtually you're just I suppose listening with a different lens, you're seeing with a different lens. Um so the felt felt sense probably is a little less strong on virtual, but there's a different level of awareness, I suppose, that's coming from being able to see all the faces.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah, I like I like the word you use, oh, that open, open awareness. Taking it all in soft soft eyes.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

As we're called it in the past, yeah. Yeah, and what a beautiful story.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

What and what I mean, what an impactful story of how a a relatively small moment stood out as being relevant enough to be unpacked a little further and led to some really, really relevant and important work about being heard and how do we share and and uh um I think that was kind of seeing it as the start of something, as I think I was often earlier on had a pressure on myself for things to be complete or worked through. And actually that was for me as team coach at that point in time and the team was a moment, and as much as we we started the work, and it was in a small way but a meaningful way that that that kind of dynamic was surfaced for the first time.

unknown 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

What I'm struck by is um how much is in a moment, and uh when I started out in team coaching, how much of that I'd miss. I'd miss the moment and how team members miss a significant moment, often because they're busy focused on a task or thinking about what they want to say next. Um, and and yet if we really harness the moment, there's so much learning in there. So, what I what I heard you talk about was um something was said, something was sparky. And um, and normally, and they did, just not respond or move on from that. And you see that so often in teameting, the conversation rolls on, but something something has happened energetically that has some significance in it, and in that moment, it's easy to lose contact, to get out of contact, like a like if you imagine two electrical connections getting broken. So the flow of energy breaks. The person who's holding that sparky energy perhaps feels unheard, misunderstood, frustrated, who knows? There's some energy in it that the team aren't taking in, understanding the moments missed. And then I heard you say it was the start of something, and you're talking about, you know, you're talking about feeling heard, and you're talking about it's the start of how we share contrasting points of view. And I think that's really profound. It's profound work for a team to develop the capacity to share contrasting points of view in an effective way. And most of us aren't taught how to do that. We don't learn that at school or in our social systems. Because teams are a place for learning. So I'd love to drill into that a bit more, into that moment. Um, you've talked a little bit about what you felt and how you've you've you responded uh perhaps more strongly than you're used to in yourself. Um what how did this then play out for the team? How did the team make this useful in the future?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Um so I think the charged pieces you're saying, just to kind of your point on the skill of the team being able to bring in that difference point of view. And I think as I described it, it came out very charged from me because I felt it in that way as Mary offered it. And and that typically can be that people either come in too strong with very charged or retreat, and I'll take it away and process it myself. And I might have sidebar conversations, but I won't bring it in in the moment or and be able to articulate myself. And we have all of us in our day-to-day have that kind of come in very strong or retreat and I'll hold back. And it is that kind of that electrical of staying that this team's ability and my ability as team coach to stay with it in a way that we can hear, we can express without kind of clouding it too much or too little. Um, so that kind of moment, I think, was not anything that was done with it in the moment from a very integrated learning point of view, but it was an exchange between the two members that I suppose first I was naming the pattern. I didn't name it explicitly and I didn't stay with it in terms of is this something that happens frequently? Um, but in a way, because the per the team member that came in and spoke to how it was difficult for her to hear the message, but she did understand or want to, she showed a wanting to understand where Mary was coming from. I I think without talking about it, it was demonstrating and creating in that moment a new way in which the team could communicate differences better. Yeah. And then we moved on. Um and and it came up in different ways as it often does in team coaching. Um, another time in a live action coaching session, and then another time much more explicitly where they did talk about how do we want to be, and it was the kind of integrating and creating of it through talking of those kind of new ways of being. But I feel that moment was the first expression of it, maybe for want of a better word.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

How do I in my language, you know, how do we stay in contact through those moments of difference, moments where we see something differently, or when we feel charged? I think that's a a great way of putting it because when you talk about seeing something differently, it sounds a bit objective or a bit like it's not necessarily charged. But when when something's charged, um often there's that fight, flight, freeze comes in. Some people go numb, some people retreat from the conversation, some go in for the kill. Um, we're we're part of that as coaches, we can be charged. So, how do we stay in contact in those sparky moments? Is a real skill for us to build as coaches and for team members to build. Yeah, we're all learning together how to do that. See, I'm I'm just struck by how much was in that moment for your team and for many teams.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah, I I I think that's a that's a real lesson here. I like how you you used the word rich, the richness of the moment earlier, Georgina. And uh I was walking by um I was walking downtown the other day, and I saw, and this happens to me often, you know, I see somebody taking a photograph of something, but you know, with one of those, not not with your iPhone, but somebody who had a real proper camera, you know, and he was really zooming in on something. And I saw the scene, and I and I I stopped and looked and said, what did what is he seeing that I'm not seeing? What's he it was he? What's he seeing that um um that's worth taking a picture of? And uh and it was a beautiful actually, there was an one of these electric escalators, you know, that takes you up and and the light fell on it in a specific way, and so created this. I I think that's what he must have seen, these beautiful kind of shadows and moving bits and pieces as the escalator moved up. And and it and it's and it was such a potent reminder of that of the richness of the moment. There is so much going on in every moment that we normally just skim over. It's almost like uh you know, like the edge of a waterfall. You know, just where the water starts to head down. It's like that that's the present moment, right? And there's so much flowing through that. There's so much flowing through this moment now, there's so much flowing through the moment in the life of every particular person listening to this. Like what is and that might be a good exercise to do actually too, if you're listening to this, just press pause for a second and notice what's going on in this moment. Notice what's going on in you, in your head and in your in your heart, and maybe in your gut, you know, and and and what's going on around you. So because that's real good training. I think that's what's that's what so much of this work is based on. And and that makes it so different from your like training course. You know, I I could imagine another organization different from the one that you were working with, going, well, we've noticed uh that uh um our team members don't really share in the proper way, or we've had feedback, you know, that some people don't feel heard in this team. Can you run a two-day workshop on how to develop those skills? It would have landed very differently, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

And I I think as you describe that kind of pause, and hopefully some some listeners have, that for me, what is still such a big development part of my team coaching practice and an unlearning that I've had to do from years of consulting and facilitation. And and in a not just in my team coaching, being able to do it in the day-to-day um in my kind of parenting, in my, like you say, walking down the street and noticing something, um, and just taking that pause, because then it becomes more readily available in team coaching or in um particularly even in my in my co-coach relationships, it's been helpful and um personal um relationships, just that ability to kind of notice what's going on, what am I feeling, what am I thinking, and what's going on around me.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah, deepening awareness. Yeah, and in in this ex in this particular moment of emergence that you've been describing for us, uh, and that experience for the team, how do you think that that shaped you, Jen? What have you learned or what are you learning?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Um, so there was two, I suppose, as I mentioned, I was been exploring kind of various different moments of emergence and thinking about them afterwards, and and how did that one work and land and why didn't and then I realized again, evaluating them in that way wasn't helpful. Um, like did it work? Was that good?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Um kind of a performative lens, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah. Did we fix something or where did the team get to with it? Kind of a high expectation for the moment um of emergence. And um, so the kind of evaluating was a shift that I learned through this reflection of various different moments across teams. Um was more bringing in that rather than did it work or did it not, did we get somewhere with it, or what did the team learn from that moment? It probably was more of the what did we name in the moment, or something that's in my kind of stance and philosophy is something kind, something true, something useful. So by kind I mean that kind of dialogue where there is real contact, um, and true is my probably surfacing something and useful probably is more of the we moved forward or there was a learning, something a bit more tangible. And so I kind of had to reframe how am I thinking about these moments, and what's more about kind of what's this starting, or what might that be showing us as opposed to did it work or did it not? Um, so that was one really helpful piece in terms of my reflective practice, how I was thinking about these moments of emergence, like what is being shown in that moment, maybe might be more of a question that I'm asking.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Um it's like your mindset as a practitioner has changed from uh what did it fix, what did it achieve, did it work or not? Um to a broader lens, really, of what of what shifted, what what perhaps what did that enable, what did that support, what do we notice in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

You know, in uh in in the courses that we run, we um uh and that you run too, Jen. I think we often speak about this thing that we call our technology for change, right? Within the TCS framework, the technology for change. That sounds a bit clinical, but it's that that very potent combination of our you know, using our presence, our presence, and then use of self and and then the third uh element in the ring of uh active experimentation, right? Active experiment. And um and and I think what you describe is is is such a masterful uh such an example of masterful use of self, using yourself as an instrument to inter to it to notice into name to intervene, and and using your presence to make sure that your intervention lands, because it might be the best thought-out intervention, but if the if you if you don't back it up with who you are in the moment and what you feel, and if you don't show up in a in a in a congruent way, it wouldn't land. But then there's this uh and then there's this uh this active experimentation. And I and so I think it's uh it's also a real opportunity to think about well, what if if if that in you know you've uncovered an insight with the team, and an insight has emerged, right, in in the moment. Um how how do we make sure that really lands and how the how do we make sure that that's really sticks and becomes part of the team's operating system by by designing and a little experiment in the moment?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

And um I'm I'm laughing that you're calling it masterful because my reflections afterwards was more of a self-criticism of, but I didn't stay with it, and we didn't kind of unpack it and really look at that dynamic and ask them, is this a passion? And um, and that that was the kind of self learning of as I mentioned earlier, I kind of nearly spooked myself of how strong I came in. Yeah, and then I did feel a retreat once the exchange had happened, which was a mini experiment between um Mary and the other. Team member. But I know myself, I kind of retreated back in in that bike, flight, or freeze way. And that was a second big unlearning around my consulting days was that I had really mastered self-managing and packing it away so that I can focus on the needs of the room and where we're going and where we need to get to. And so for me to kind of be able to come in with a strong presence, but also feel grounded at the same time, I really needed to, and through supervision, kind of peer reflection and therapy conversations as well, in terms of how skilled I'd become at managing really quietly overhear what I was feeling. And um I think I'm very tuned in to what I'm feeling in the moment, but I was from facilitation and consulting days really skilled at packing it away and managing like, okay, let's turn back to what's happening in the room and what we need to do. And so I had to kind of broaden my range of being able to um stay with charged feelings and not feel the need to kind of not show them, not use them. So I think there was an element of sharing of use of self that brought me in, but I didn't what didn't have the kind of range or skill to stay with it. And and and maybe that was also due to the moment of time. The team maybe also weren't ready to stay with it, and just that mini exchange was all the capacity was. Who knows? But there was a bit of learning for me as I compare it to other moments of emergence of sometimes I feel edgy but quite okay with it, whereas that was a not okay moment and actually had rich learning for me around how I can overmanage myself and my reactions.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah, yeah, then I can picture that in that consultancy kind of self with your, you know, my projection, yeah, you with your kind of business suit on and professional.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

No, I'm not showing my emotions, they're all contained and yeah, and then there uh in this in this moment it was more unleashed, gen unleashed or something by surprise. It makes me think of my dog where he doesn't he's not really a barker of a dog, but just occasionally when you take him out, he'll let out this bark and it's huge, and you go, Oh my goodness. And he even looks around over his shoulder, like, where did that come from? Exactly. Well, found all this capacity within myself that's now available. Yeah. Um, Jen, I I um I'm thinking about what conditions do you find yourself creating with the team to support our capacity to bring in more range, for you to take more risks in terms of your emotional self that you bring forward, for the team members to stay in contact with each other, to be really in.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

And and I I spent kind of supposed as I started on my own journey of really wanting and seeing the value of emergence, like lots of practical, I suppose, skill development. And that would include kind of getting better contracting um with the team early on and in the moment, um, the language I use, contracting with my co-coach, so that I feel as I did in that moment, wasn't conscious, but I felt supported by her. I think that's where the gen unleashed was able to come come in. Um so that co-coach relationship. Um and I also, I suppose, and again, big learning from anyone coming from a consulting or facilitation background to let go of the agenda, have more of an arc. But I think in the last year, it really has been this the inner work that I've had to do that's enabled me to have to have, and I don't even know if I'd curl call it risk or courage, but okayness with whatever comes. Um and that's and I think you mentioned this before, Georgina, kind of being able to with the co-coaches express what you what's happening for me and what what's been called from me in the team as we're doing this work. And it and it is calling up different parts of me, and being able to see it as part of the work as opposed to Jen's got an issue or Jen needs to work on her um um whatever part of my past it's calling up, but actually see that as, oh, how's that coming up with this team? What does that mean? Um, so those co-coach conversations between sessions really important, but just that own, as I mentioned to Allert's point earlier, the can just developing in myself and my being as Jen, not necessarily as team coach, being able to kind of feel what I'm feeling because I'm quite a highly sensitive person, I feel a lot, yeah, but not have to retreat away and package it up and not have to come in really forcefully either. But how do I kind of stay with it and express it? And that was my that's is my real learning, I suppose, at the moment, um, to stay with it. A never-ending journey.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

A never-ending journey to in the that inner work, that developing an okayness with what arises. I think you've said it so beautifully, and and that's not just I think a lesson for team coaches, but that's a life lesson, isn't it? Developing an okayness with what unfolds.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah. Yeah. And the the work on ourselves is the primary work. You know, once we've got some idea about what team coaching is and how we shape a developmental journey over time, and what our philosophy instance is, and develop some of the skills, you need a little bit of that. But but but the real road to mastery, you know, beyond gaining skills and knowledge is work on self. And what you described is an inner journey for outer transformation in your work, for the impact you have in your work. And it's really exciting to hear that. Maybe maybe we should have another podcast series, Al, after this one, on uh with other coaches like Jen talking about what's been my inner transformation.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, I love that. And it's about a little bit of horizontal development, but then a lot, a lot of vertical development.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been very enlightening and enjoying, enjoyable talking with you about this, Jen. And I think listeners are very much going to enjoy both your the richness of your capacity to process a moment and to realize the significance of the moment, your humility to share your vulnerability around you know, I didn't stay with the moment and the self-criticism that happened, and then the capacity to step back from it, look at it more in the round, and and to make use of that and to grow yourself as a coach. There's so much in there, in that little moment. Really wonderful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

It was a yeah, please a pleasure, even though I know you, Jen, it was a pleasure to meet Jen unleashed.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Thank you both. It was great to explore it with you. And um, just even I think it was a bit of a halls of mirrors moment, you know, the way when you have to like learn it over here, and then you learn it this way and learn it in different ways until you really start to learn it. Um, and uh it's a slow burn.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah, well, I I I salute your courage and your learning, Jen.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Absolutely. Yeah, thank you. Look forward to next time, Jen.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yes, thank you both.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Okay, bye now.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Thanks for joining today's journey of Teams Transformed.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

If this sparked a new insight or a deeper question, we invite you to sit with it. Not to solve it, but to let it unfold.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

For resources, community, and reflection prompts, visit teamcoachingstudio.com.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Until the next time, stay present, stay curious, and keep leaning into the art of emergence.