Flying Blind on Fish Oil: Omega-3 Testing and Why Supplementation Without Measurement Is Just Expensive Hope

In this episode of The Signal, host Andy Feltovich sits down with Tavis Piattoly, MS, RD, LDN
— credentialed sports dietitian, veteran of the New Orleans Saints, Pelicans, and Tulane
Athletics, and Director of Sales and Dietitian at OmegaQuant Analytics, home of the Omega-3
Index developed by Dr. Bill Harris. The conversation opens with a confession: Andy has spent
years as a vocal critic of the fetishization of testing in health and performance — get tested and
get the dopamine hit from “doing something!” instead of doing the hard things that actually move
the needle: sleep, move, eat. Tavis changed his mind. This episode is about why omega-3 is
different — and what to do about it.
What You’ll Learn:
• Why omega-3 deficiency is unlike almost every other deficiency in medicine: no signs,
no symptoms, no signal — 90% of people are walking around below optimal and feel
completely normal. The only way to know is to test.
• What the Omega-3 Index actually measures: EPA and DHA as a percentage of red
blood cell membrane fatty acids, why membranes specifically, and what the results
mean
• The four omega-3s — EPA, DHA, ALA, and DPA — and why only two of them move the
index. What that means if you’re relying on plant-based sources.
• The omega-6 story is more complicated than social media is painting: what a study
feeding humans highly oxidized omega-6 fats reveals about real-world peroxidation risk
• Make, model, vintage: how to evaluate a fish oil supplement — triglyceride form vs. ethyl
ester, the matrix (gel cap, blister pack, liquid), EPA-to-DHA ratios, and the GOED quality
standard and IFOS third-party certification
• Heavy metals, molecular distillation, and what the purity standards mean
• The practical playbook: which OmegaQuant test to order, what the finger-prick process
looks like — tested live on video! — and how to act on the result
If you take fish oil, have thought about taking fish oil, or have ever assumed you were probably
fine — this episode will tell you whether that assumption is worth making. The test is simple.
The data point is easy to fix. The only reason not to know is that nobody told you to look. Now
you know.
Guest Links:
• OmegaQuant Analytics: omegaquant.com
• Tavis Piattoly / MySportsDietitian: mysportsd.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to The Signal, the podcast companion to the only intelligence report in men's health and fitness that tells you what to watch, what to ignore, and why. I'm Andy Felt, founder and CEO. Every episode, we go deeper than the newsletter. Longer conversations, harder questions, and the stories behind the data. We don't do pro science, we don't do wellness theater, we question everything except questioning. Every dogma on trial, guilty until proven innocent. If you're new here, the signal has been produced by Andy Felton, the flagship company of the Collegium of Order and Flow. Subscribe to the newsletter at the hypensignal.us. Don't forget the hyphen. If this episode is worth five stars to you, leave a review. It's the single best thing that you can do to help us cut the noise. Now let's get into it. Today we have Tavis Pietoli, Director of Sales and Dietician at Omega Quant Analytics, home of the Omega-3 Index developed by Dr. Bill Harris, the most rigorously validated omega-3 biomarker in the world. Tavis has over 15 years of experience as a credentialed sports dietitian, including time with the New Orleans Saints, New Orleans Pelicans, and two lane athletics. He is also co-founder of the My Sports Dietician and the Liquid Fuel Sports Hydration Brands. As always, this is for informational purposes and should not be interpreted as medical advice. First, welcome, Tavis. Great honor to have you here today. We're going to start off as we always do, asking about your Batman origin story. So how did you come to Omega Quant?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, well, it's kind of funny. I was uh working for a company um for about five or six years at the time called the Taylor Hooten Foundation. The COVID, you know, COVID hit, and then you know, just a friend kind of made a recommendation and said, hey, look, I think you would be a great fit. They're looking for somebody on the clinical education side. I loved working for the Taylor Hooten Foundation. Nothing but incredible things to say about the people, Donald, Brian, Don Sr. Um, the entire family. But travel was starting to pick back up. COVID was moving out. And with a daughter at the time, around seven or eight years old, she was just getting involved in more sports, uh, theater, musical production. So it made it like being on the road 25, 30 times a year was really challenging. I applied for a job as the clinical educator. Another person got it, but they said, look, you would be great for sales. You have a sales background, you know, working when you're in the fitness industry. Would you be interested? I was like, absolutely. And then that's kind of how things got kicked off and met with the team and joined in 2021, I believe. Yeah, so I'm going, I'm on year five now.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Well, I'm interested in the work you do did at the Taylor Hooton Foundation, uh, working on subjects very near and dear to my heart, in particular uh performance-enhancing drugs, or APEDs, appearance in performance-enhancing drugs. I just found out that I was I've been omitting, omitting the A. Uh supplement safety. Tell us about the work you did there.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, we just traveled the country and uh spoke in school, high schools, colleges, um, athletic sports teams, went into different uh organizations and different groups, a lot of conferences as well, athletic trainers, etc. Just talking about Taylor's story. Taylor was a young man. He was a high, like many young male athletes today, or female athletes too, but a lot of the male young athletes are trying to figure out how do I get bigger, stronger, faster. And at that time, giving bad advice to young individuals was pretty common. Still it is today. It's take this, take that, not change your diet. So Taylor found out that maybe using anabolic steroids was an answer. Uh his coach at the time said, you just need to get as big and strong as possible. Go see what your friends are doing. And some of his friends on his baseball team were using steroids. So he decided to make that uneducated decision. And unfortunately, uh, what happened was when he went to a doctor, it took him a while. His parents noticed a lot of changes in behavior. And eventually uh he quit cold turkey and then a lot of obviously in young individuals, hormonal changes, emotional changes, and he took his own life. So we we went into these places, these schools and uh conferences to really just educate, especially young individuals, about the risk of these types of drugs.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

It's an important point you brought up, just doing what your friends are doing. And you know, you and I we do this professionally. I've been doing this at the highest levels internationally for a decade, and I still fall myself find myself falling into that trap of just slapping stuff in my body, on my body. Like I went to a sports pharma summit a couple weeks ago, and I realized that there's not just Ben Gay and Biofreeze, there's like four primary active chemicals, and each has a different purpose. And I was like, you know, back when I was fighting and whatnot, we just slap stuff on our bodies until it stops hurting. We didn't we didn't read the ingredients or do any research. So you know, again, it just goes to show it's a it's a con it's a discipline, right? Um so I'm gonna be uh gonna lay it, lay it on our listeners. I'm very skeptical of testing. We talked about this at the sports pharmacy summit where we actually met two weeks ago. And I've I'm a stern critic of what I call the fetishized fetishization of testing in this industry. So we go out and we run a panel of tests and we get that dopamine. I'm doing something hit, and it basically a lot of times comes down to a distraction. Uh you know, it's easier to measure something than it is to actually do hard stuff with trade-offs, get your butt off the couch, move around, sleep right, eat right. Uh but but you convinced me. You the omegas are different, it's worth the time and trouble. It's um the there is more light than than heat. So tell us about tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah, I mean, look, um omega-3, I know we kind of talked about that point, was it's one of those nutrients, unlike iron, unlike vitamin D, unlike other nutrients, that you can truly determine when there's a deficiency, right? If someone is anemic or has low levels of iron, there's side effects with that. There's fatigue with you know, with things like vitamin D rickets, which you don't see too often. But with omega-3, 90% of people are walking around with low blood levels, but there's no really signs or symptoms. There's nothing like you you're sleeping for 12 hours, which some people would probably love, or you have you might have inflammation, but inflammation can be caused by so many different things, and you might not be associating low blood levels, might be just part of that problem, where higher blood levels of omega-3 could lower that. So I think that's the one thing that's unique about omega-3. It's it's it's still an unknown biomarker that people don't are not as aware that it's really important and why why it should be paid, maybe part of every standardized protocol, especially for performance or for just general health assessment.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Okay. So that's right. There's no um there's no um nothing that dots you in the eye like ricket, your bow, your legs start bowing scurvy, your lips start bleeding, etc. So talk us through what we're actually testing for, and you know, a couple points. This isn't you're not a physiologist, and also we don't have enough time to get into the intricacies of of lipid metabolism, which would be would be useful. I wish there was more work on that. There just isn't the we don't have the data that we have on uh, for instance, protein and carbohydrates, but we need a little bit of uh lipid physiology and metabolism uh to motivate what follows. So one of the eye-openers for me uh meeting you at the conference was that we tend to zero in on uh EPA and DHE DHA, but those are only just uh a couple of the fatty acids. We've got a whole buffet of omega-3s, omega-6s. Walk us through what um what the universe is like and uh what each of them do.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah, I mean there's there's four omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA, are essential. I always have trouble trying to pronounce these fatty acids, no matter whether it's doco, hexa, uh fatty acid, I can never pronounce them well, but EPA and DHA. Essential fats, you have to get them from the diet, primarily marine sources. So any cold water fish, even non-cold water fish, but highest amounts, but things like Pacific herring, salmon, sardines, mackerel, anchovies are gonna really be predominant in EPA and DHA. Uh, then you have your more vegetarian base, D uh, ALA, chia, flax, walnuts. These are good omega-3 fats. The problem with them is they don't convert to a high enough percentage in the diet to EPA and DHA in order to influence blood. So that's why we not only do we see 90% of people have low levels, but vegans and the U.S. military usually have the lowest levels. Why is that? Well, vegans because they're not consuming algal-based sources, which is the only way for them to increase blood. Military, just because they're not eating omega-3-rich foods and they're training in high intensities. Then we have this other molecule or fatty acid DPA, that you do see small amounts in fish, but that really has no influence on blood. You have to consume EPA and DHA on a regular basis. And I know we'll talk about how often what are the best sources to truly influence the red blood cell membrane. And that's kind of how we measure the blood at Omega at omega quant. We look at a couple of different ways. We look at the red blood cell and we also look at plasma, but I know we'll talk about kind of what separates those two and what makes them different.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Let's dial into the military situation because I always like to know where my tax money's going. Uh why aren't they eating right?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I don't think it's that they're not eating right. I just think, you know, when you look at cost, it's probably not probably cost pro it's probably cost prohibitive to probably feed them salmon three to four days a week versus other foods. Uh that it's no different than in most organizations that have even bigger budgets. You don't see that as part of the diet. Plus, I don't think people love in in most cases. Like, I'm not, I I just really over the last couple of years acquired a really good taste for some good quality salmon, uh, and especially if you prepare it correctly. But for many years in my mind, it was fishy. I wouldn't eat it, so I was like a lot more convenient to take the supplemental form. Plus, maybe these are younger individuals, their diet is maybe not as diverse as we get a little bit older, we're more likely to to try things that we know are more beneficial for our health. But I think it's probably cost prohibitive that uh why the military is not, you know, having as high levels of maybe the average consumer.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Well that that's un that's unfortunate. Uh institutional eating, so hospitals, schools, prisons, it's uh that that's a big portion of the country what they eat, and um uh hence a big portion of our medical problems. So that's probably something we can to be addressed on the policy side, uh feeding them better and doing that cost benefit of what that does for for health outcomes, because when you talk about that size population, it's actually a needle mover. Um before we go on, want to uh dial into the vegetarian population, and we're I try to sidestep the carnivore versus vegan controversies, but I mean the fact of the matter is we're omnivores, and once you cut out an entire entire classes of food, whether that's plants and vegetables, whether that's meat, you're gonna have to compensate in some way. So you want to take a second to talk about the unique needs of vegans and the uh and the issues that they face with omega fatty acids by not eating meat.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, well, I mean, they don't eat fish. I mean, if veget there's some vegetarians out there that might call themselves more pescatarians, they're fine. And if they're eating fish that's rich in omega-3 three to four days a week, they'll be okay. But even meat eaters, I mean carnivores, we we've been trying to work with the group to test carnivores for omega-3. If they're only eating meat and not eating fish or not taking fish supplements, they're gonna be deficient or be have low levels just like anybody else. Uh vegans are gonna be really the lowest because they're probably not taking an algae or algal-based source. Uh, they're probably consuming a lot of chia flax, walnuts, hemp seeds, which have very little conversion. 3 to 5% converts to EPA and DHA, um, which is why we see their average levels are usually between 2 and 3%. The average American is usually somewhere between 4 and 5%, where we see the optimal range for optimizing health, 8 to 12%.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

So we talked about um there's the false dichotomy. You mentioned they're all essential omega-3s, omega-6s. There's kind of that false dichotomy that there's omega-3s are the healthy, omega-6s are the the unhealthy, the bad fats, if you if you will. And one of the things that one of the reasons I invited you on this podcast is you had some very insightful things to say about some research that wasn't aware of, and that I probably should be more aware of. Ums and oxidized uh fatty acids might but not be devil incarnate and public enemy number one, like uh we tend we might assume if we spend too much time on social media. So walk us through some of that research.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah, I mean, I know Dr. Harris could probably talk, and Dr. Bill Harris is our founder. He's a credible fatty acid scientist. So there's some of the research I'm familiar with on the omega-6 side, you know, really looks at there's seven omega-6s. And one particularly, most of what we get in the diet is from minolaic acid. As people might hear in the world of influencers, they're called them seed oils. So if it's soybean oil, if that's sunflower oil, a lot of the oils in whether it's processed foods or even potato chips and cookies, some of those are gonna be organically driven as well. Cold, you know, cold sunflower oil. They all do what's called, when you consume high amounts of those types of fats, they're gonna increase your blood linoleic acid. There's also what's called arachidonic acid and some other omega-6 fats that I'm not a fatty acid specialist, so I can't really go into details. What's what some of the things our lab has published, and actually a new paper just came out that we're gonna be talking about regarding body fat, which may be of interest, but higher blood linoleic level acid, higher higher linoleic acid levels in the blood, not just consuming processed chips, which we don't recommend people just consume a ton of processed food. But what we do know is higher linoleic acid in the blood, is let is associated with lower risk of cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, strokes, but also diabetes. We're working on a study right now with the NIH. It's a grant, we're in, I think, phase two to look at predicting people's risk for diabetes based on blood linoleic acid as well as other fatty acids and some things that we're looking at, as well as some other, uh, another test looking at dementia that may not be related to omega-6 and more other fats. So I think we have to just stop using the blanket statement that Xetols are bad, and then really talk about what the research says around measuring blood. And the research tells us it's maybe not as problematic as some of these influencer may be seeing. So that's why we like to look at randomized control trials that measure blood and say, look at those long-term outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah, it all comes it all comes down to the RCTs. There's of course they've got their issues like everything else, but if you spend too much time on social media when and I'm trying to detox it, uh mouse models, correlational studies, and legit RCTs kind of uh get lumped together and nobody really understands the nuances of anything when they for blindly and reflexively repeat them. You provided an excellent uh segue, Dr. Harris, and uh uh the the the work that you're doing at Omega Omega Quant. Uh let's talk about what you're act what what you're actually measuring. So when I send my test in, which we might do a little later on this call, I've been putting it off, so we might actually just prick some fingers later later on the interview. Uh so when I when I prick my finger, which I'll do later and send and send you the blood, you're looking at the red blood cell membrane, if I understand uh correctly. So why are you measuring the RBCs uh specifically and what are you looking for in that sample?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah, so with the RBC, it's it's just a longer status of omega-3 status. If you did a blood draw of your omega-3 and you sent that, or you went to a blood draw lab, they're going to measure plasma. So that's like measuring blood sugar for the omega-3. It's only looking at your omega-3 status over the last 24 hours. And you have to fast when you take that type of test. And you have to remove omega-3 from your diet, fast for at least, you know, 12 hours, and then probably over the last or the previous two to one or two days, don't eat anything rich in omega-3. With our test, we're measuring this almost like a little bit longer than a hemoglobin A1C that looks at blood sugar over three months. The red blood cell life cycle is four months. So we can see, you know, it's almost May 1st. So we can see what someone's been eating from February 1st or January 1st to May 1st and measure their omega-3 status, which gives you a much better indication of what they've been consuming for the last four months.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So you uh uh you didn't mean to, but you done poke the bear. So you got you hit on one of my pet peeves with research. Uh so you said four four months, and that's important. And my kind of delusion my mad scientist um working hypothesis is that the reason we don't have enough research on fatty acids, and the re is the reason we don't have as much research on those as we have carbohydrates and proteins, is because like you said, the turnover is four months. And when your research subjects are you know, college kids who are just volunteering to do it for beer money and uh college credit, you're you you get you know maybe maybe six, eight weeks out of it then. You're not gonna get uh full four months. And it's and there's not gonna be clear performance increases or or decrements that you can measure. So creatine, we give them creatine, then we have them lift stuff. Protein, we have them do leg extensions because the vastus lateralis is the easiest muscle to biopsy, uh, even though it's a useless exercise. So we can measure protein synthesis, get a paper out, get tenure carbohydrates, we run them, we deplete their carbs, uh, we replenish their carbs, we measure it, we get a nice study. But uh we're way um red blood cells, like you said, four months turnover. So, in order to get some more research on omega-3s and omega-3 supplementation and performance, we're going to need longer than six to eight weeks. And it's not gonna be some kind of clean, clear, cut and dried res uh result uh like we get with, like I said, protein creatine carbohydrates. Uh so what's it gonna take to get and the other thing is is is funding. Somebody's got to bankroll this, and we've got lots of supplement comp we've got lots of creatine, lots of protein, lots of carbohydrate uh supplement companies that are gonna fund this research. So uh putting you on the spot, what's it gonna take to get some decent goddamn performance data on omega-3 supplementation?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Well, we do. I mean, we it depends on the outcome and what we're measuring, but you know, there's been studies looking at concussion outcomes, there's been studies looking at just neurofilament right in the brain. Jeff, Dr. Jeff Heelson um or Housen out of uh he's with the US military out of Bethesda. He's done some pretty good work in collegiate athletes looking at uh omega-3 dose, omega-3 index, omega in strength power, muscle sore. There's been muscle soreness studies done, obviously levels of inflammation, um, heart rate, heart rate recovery time. So there's been a pretty good bit of studies. We're gonna be involved with a UK organization soon that's gonna be starting, I think, this year, where we're gonna be, I think one of the first studies to get athletes up to 8% first, then study them. A lot of the studies now dose them, measure them, or test their blood. Most of them are going in low levels, four to five percent. Then we'll, you know, we'll test power strength, you know, get initial baseline markers, then dose them, then retest them. And obviously you should see some improvements in outcome. Well, now we're gonna dose them. And I don't know the exact, it's been a while since I've looked at the protocol, but when um when the organization and we found a great scientist that's been doing a lot of work in this area, said, let's dose them first, let's get them to an optimal range, and then let's see what happens. And you know, do those go in, do those that are in optimal ranges go into an exercise protocol? Do them do their markers change over the course of time? So it'll be interesting to see over the next year what happens with that study. But yeah, there's been a pretty good bit of research on the performance side with omega 3, and it's been pretty positive for the most part, especially when. blood levels get higher.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Well maybe I just need to get on PubMed and uh do some better better research. Uh you mentioned the eight percent the eight percent mark and how most people come under it. How did we come up with those those bands and the magical eight percent mark?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yeah, a lot of that started with Dr. Harris's research in cardiovascular disease, where they were measuring coronary heart disease risks, like looking at predictors, uh almost a better predictor of long, you know, long-term cardiovascular health than maybe just cholesterol data. But some of Dr. Harris's early studies from 04, 08 were looking at just, you know, the omega-3 index as a predictor for coronary heart disease. And then they started looking at some studies in brain health and then started looking at inflammatory health and then started looking at immune health. And really it was pretty set that a lot of these, once you hit that 7, 8% mark, it was almost like the tipping point where that level of significance started to really kick in. You know, you see benefits like coronary heart disease. If you were at 3.8%, I don't know the exact percent or indication, but you go from like three to six, there's a nice drop in in risk. You go from six to like eight, there's another nice drop in risk. So from obviously being really low, less than four to eight, there's about a 35 to 40% lower risk for developing coronary heart. Things like primary heart attack, reductions in inflammation are all kind of in that same boat where you're really low, your risk is a little bit higher. You get to that 8%, your levels really drop. And then we we have a desired range where we feel eight to 12 is where we want people to be. And then after that we don't really know what happens in regards to if you're 16% like some of the Eskimos are in the 20%. Do we have more problems? We don't really know because there's not a lot of people to study that are in those ranges. And a lot of people like to focus on the ratios like omega 6 to 3 and they just say chase the ratios. Well it's like a seesaw effect you know Andy if your your your omega 6 to 3 in your arachidonic acid to EPA levels are going to be high if your omega 3 is low. If omega 3 goes up in a linear fashion omega 6 to 3 and AA to EPA go down in a linear fashion. So that's why we say get the omega 3 up and the ratios will take care of themselves. And that's the test you have, you know, that that um that you and I discussed that's that's what it's going to measure.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

It's gonna measure your omega 3 index and your ratios so let's let's talk about um of course if a little bit is good then a lot must be better. That's kind of the unfortunate mindset in our industries of especially with meathead athletes and recovering meathead athletes uh like like myself so I've seen I've seen recommendations all over the place um so some evidence some or some recommendations I should say for enhanced recovery and and soreness four to six gram range per day for supplementation Ben Greenfield who generally have a lot of respect for does some good book his book I like his push's book Boundless he recommended hyper supplementation in the range of uh 15 grams a day for for injuries um let's talk about the the the Eskimos you brought that up so I want to dig into that for a second anecdotally again not RCTs but a lot of correlational work that um they have low cardiovascular incidence of cardiovascular disease despite being pr despite high incidence of obesity and and smoking but uh the flip side of that is I believe they suffer more uh bleeding aneurysms uh possibly presumably as a result of those high omega-3 levels what are your thoughts on that and the broader point the tipping point when is more not better?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah I I don't know the answer to the aneurysm part and and if that's the case and what those studies have looked at. Not I I am familiar with I know Dr. Harris referenced a study that was done I think in 1972 with looking at EPA levels clotting and the fact that you know those Eskimos and again never read that full study um had a much lower risk of heart attack and heart disease and could that be to high levels of EPA consumption. What we've seen on the bleeding side and some of the stuff that I've seen him present is the fact that you actually bleed less. You know they did some open heart um open heart surgery studies where those that had higher blood omega 3 actually bled less than those that had lower omega 3. Again I don't know the aneurysm studies and what what's involved in that process but I can't I do know from a brain perspective we see less neuroinflammation in the brain when you have especially when you feed it DHA. We've seen that in concussed athletes looking at neurofilament light over the course of an entire football season that brain inflammation or neuroinflammation increases for those athletes that are constantly colliding in the head small microtraumas throughout the season but those that got two grams of DHA didn't have nearly as much of a rise versus those that got nothing. Like they had almost a very small elevation in that blood marker. We still need to look at other markers but at least it gave us some this is like the early 2015 2016 John Oliver study that showed hey DHA should be part of the treatment protocol and maybe even the risk mitigation protocol to get athletes to the higher level that have a higher risk of head injury. But yeah just not familiar with the bleeding and the brain stuff.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah interesting but what you said about bleeding generally because if anybody like who's gone under the knife or if you're like me and you've gone under the knife one too many times, I always tell you don't uh moderate or eliminate your omega-3 consumption prior prior to surgery. And folks at home do what your surgeon says we're not telling you to disregard your surgeon's advice but it looks like it might there might not be a simple mechanistic relationship between higher fish oil and bleeding.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yeah and I think I don't know you know I'd have to look at that study did they use a high quality oil did they measure blood did they or did they just look at you know a very processed oil in ethylester form that may have been prop more problematic. Not really sure I'd have to really look at the study to see you know where they got there's a lot of other studies that said oh fish oil causes this and then you look at the paper and go, hmm that paper was really poorly designed and didn't either wasn't there long enough didn't measure didn't use a good quality product or didn't measure blood.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

So let's talk about your you wear a lot of hats a registered dietitian is one so let's say like you said there's no there's no smoking gun with omega-3 deficiency it's not it's not scurvy you don't come in with bleeding lips it's not rickets you don't come in with bow legs so there's no smoking gun you um your client gets a low reading sub sub-8 where kind of that's our working hypothesis 8% seems to be the kind of the one of the magical thresholds uh how how does it go down on a consult what's the what are the next steps?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah I think first thing is just to determine what their intake currently looks like. You know if the goal is to optimize omega 3 do they like fish? Obviously food first is always a great approach to take some of the highest blood levels we've ever seen in the lab are people that just only eat fish. It's hard to get above 12% supplementation only just because the natural triglyceride form of that oil is coming from those fatty fish. So people that eat fish five, six, seven days a week, they're gonna have really good levels. So but if they're if they're like me to where I'm not going to eat salmon five or six days a week for a lot of different reasons variety maybe cost maybe I just don't want to eat it then we have to find an alternative maybe eat fish a couple of days a week and supplement a couple of days a week and and and just figure out a way to increase whatever they're doing. If they're like, all right, I'll start with supplementation then we'll find them a good quality product and oil to make sure we maybe take a small amount each day to build up and try to get them a dose that I know is going to get them to an optimal range. Yeah so one one quick warning for our folks at home type of fish matters and I bring that up because there was one incident an athlete his everyone of everyone else on the team tested deficient but this one athlete his omegas were were off the chart and he found out he was eating tuna every day and we said oh holy doggy do and then we tested him for mercury and of course that was off the chart too so type of fish matters for our our folks at home and we'll get into heavy metals heavy metal contamination in a minute actually not in a minute we're uh gonna get in there right now so let's talk about uh make model uh vintage we've decided that supplementation is gonna be part of our stack so I'm with you whole foods first but hard to get there with uh whole food whole foods alone and then you run other risks like we mentioned mercury so supplements we've decided are going to be part of our strategy part of our stack we go to the store what do we buy what what matters make model vintage uh matrix form uh walk us through that yeah I mean fish oil comes in a bunch of different forms predominantly when you walk into a grocery pharmacy baked box store probably 90% of what sits on that shelf is going to be manufactured as an ethyl ester what does that mean when fish is caught from a manufacturing facility so the manufacturing facility not the brand the brand that you that you buy fish oil from they're not the ones going out in the water catching the fish it's the oil manufacturers and most of those good oil manufacturers four of them are in Norway some are in China the largest DSM is in the United States um and most people when they're buying their fish oil they don't know where that oil's coming from they just know oh what what's the source they look at the ingredients they look at how much fish oil they think they're getting but those oil manufacturers because we work in that space and we have a we use the oldest supplier in the world called GC Reaper out of Norway they bring their ships they go catch fish anchovies, mackerel, sardines are predominantly caught Peru and Chile, Norway and some other places depending on the fish type salmon, you know, herring etc they bring it back to the manufacturing facility go into tanks and I don't know the exact process from start to finish but it goes through extensive testing and it goes through testing for metals oxidation all these different parameters if it's a good oil manufacturer they're going to ensure that everything they're putting out to be made into soft gels, capsules, whatever, is going to be oil quality is preserved. These are companies that have regulations by specific organizations that say you have to meet these levels. If you don't meet these levels for certain heavy metals certain oxidation parameters you can't sell oil. So I think a lot of them there's a lot of misconception in the industry about oh all all fish rolls rancid and blah blah blah and I think we'll get into that but yeah I mean the most effective way the most effective uh so going back to an ethylester when you catch fish you catch it in the natural triglyceride form and then if you want if that oil manufacturer wants to make an ethylester to sell then they add an ethanol to it and strip it of its triglyceride form which means it's less bioavailable which means less absorbed in the blood and you have to take more of it. Ethyl esters you have to take with a source of fat. So a meal with olive oil or butter or cheese or anything that has a source of fat to increase absorption. If you take it on an empty stomach it's not very effective. What our lab did was we did a study with Penn State and Rachel Walker's lab to determine the most effective way to raise blood EPA and DHA levels and kind of how much is needed based on score. We saw triglyceride form oil or re-esterified triglyceride that's where they convert back to an ethylester back into a triglyceride still it has the same effect as a natural triglyceride. And then that's the most effective way to raise blood EPA the other is acryl or a phospholipid. It's just five to 10 times more expensive than a triglyceride another is a monoglyceride which also seems to work pretty well as well as things like cod liver oil. I don't know if that's been well tested. SPMs have not been tested well on omega 3. We've not seen any studies to look at the effects of an SPM on omega 3 levels. What we have learned is if you are 8 to 12% with your blood, your body's going to naturally produce SPMs just don't take an ethylester and how do you know that if the brand doesn't say krill if it doesn't say triglyceride if it doesn't say monoglyceride it is an ethylester I can assure you that quick terminology question SPM Pro-Resolving mediator. That's kind of another you know terminology. So that's can't think of the SPM acronym um but it's it's a pro-resolving mediator. It's can't go into the detail Dr. Harris could probably explain that we had a whole webinar he did strictly on those but those are typically taken as as a standalone item to reduce inflammation.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Okay. So people again uh if you're spending too much time on on YouTube university you might be might be caught up in the d in the debates oils versus uh gel caps versus blister packs versus any other form.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

So does that does that move the needle the uh after we get past manufacturing we've we've we've picked the right form the triglyceride form we get a reputable manufacturer after that how much is the matrix and matrix that refers to those things I talked about oil versus a gel cap versus a blister pack or gummies they have gummies now I hate gummies but go ahead take it away I mean truly it just depends on how what's the dose regardless of the administration what method of administration you can't get enough in a gummy you have to take a lot of gummies I mean we've looked at that just because of you know obviously it's it's exciting and easy to chew and it tastes better than an oil oil is probably going to be the most effective way to just be the most bioavailable and most effective way to increase levels if it's just a straight pure oil. But people don't like the smell of fish oil and you know it's unless you add some really nice sweet things to that oil and we we have some technology out there now that's working to make it a little bit better. Then a soft gel is going to be number two in regards to administration you don't see really any capsules because unless you have powdered omega 3 which there are powdered sources on the market and then gummy uh there's there's some now I'm trying to think of the what we do with our oil is we inside the soft gel bottle we add like a little desiccant that makes it smell like mint so when people open the bottle it smells fresh. But none of that really matters because it depends on if you're getting enough EPA and DHA in the right form your levels are going to go up. Unless you have a GI disorder like IBS or Crohn's or something that's blocking fat absorption or a very high intense athlete that we've seen some studies that we've been involved with one particular was looking at college track and field athletes at a you know at a big university they gave them an omega-3 product at about three grams, three to three and a half grams per day of a triglyceride form oil. They measured their omega-3 indexes after eight weeks and they only went up one and a half percent which that shouldn't be the case. So either that oil was not manufactured at a high percent triglyceride form because not all triglyceride form is the same percent or what we think might be happening is they're training at such a high intensity are they maybe not absorbing it into the cell we don't know. So that needs to be replicated and studied again at some point.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

So let's say I'm gonna prick my finger and we're gonna get a lab result back and I'm hoping it could be an omega quant affiliate so getting my get my clients tested so we're not shooting in the dark. We're not flying our we're not flying the plane blind what um what what's a realistic expectation for how much how much how long we have to take it to get our ranges back into that um magic 8% plus range?

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah this what I love about omega 3 not just the versatility of the nutrient in that higher levels can really improve a lot of different outcomes it's how easy it is to get to an optimal range pretty quickly. So if let's just say you're 4% right and you go wow to get to 8% I got to double this it could take three months two to three months. If you take more than typical like if I I take a lot so I try to maintain levels at 11 or 12% not for any any other reason beside if I stop taking it my levels are going to drop um but within about two to three months if you take two to three grams per day of combined EPA and DHA your levels are going to move pretty well you should be able to retest in three to four months and see that I'm in a good spot. If you're already at seven or eight percent then you know you whatever you've been doing is working. Maybe just increase it a little bit more to say I want to get to 10% and and give me a little cushion. And the reason I say that is because I was at 11.5% I changed my dose so I'm I'm 50 now and I was like I wanted to go more EPA heavy than DHA if just from a cardiovascular protection. So I went to three grams of EPA and about one gram of DHA per day and my levels dropped to 9.9 and I usually test every six months. So I was like all right I'm not changing the EPA I added another gram of DHA and I I got back to 11 and a half. But DHA is truly what drives your score because DHA also converts to EPA. If you just take pure EPA your EPA levels are going to look good but you're not gonna have really any DHA levels that are moving because you're not it doesn't convert EPA does not convert to DHA.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Okay that's good I'm gonna make sure you have enough of the the the DHA. Let's we talked about the different form and said that as long as you're taking enough of it and which can be hard to do with gummies. As long as you're taking enough of it you're gonna you're gonna get there unless there's something wrong with you right which is another reason why we test because if you're deficient and you supplement and you're still not getting there then there's something else wrong with you and we need to take uh evasive we need evasive maneuvering.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Uh let's talk about the other other risk you we we touched on this earlier with uh oxidation risk omega sixes how how big a risk is for oxidation with uh fish oil supplementation I mean if you're using a good brand that goes through extensive testing there's none um you know those levels are set in standard by the IFOS International Fish Old Standard Association Goed Global Organization of EPA and DHA and they they set rules and regulations so um just to kind of pull up a little slide I have that just kind of walks you through that. So for like things like peroxide value that's just the oxidation of the oil um aninsidide value same thing it's how it breaks down oxidative stress of that oil and um kind of just mostly polyunsaturated fatty acids which are omega 3s or ones that are higher risk of oxidation if you add oxygen to it or uh it it measures the unsaturation of the oxidation of that oil. Basically what IFOS does in Goed they they set goals so peroxide value can't be any higher than five uh aninsody dine is 20 totox 19.5 roughly another one has 26 so the key is to make sure those oil manufacturers that set that produce oil they have to be below at or below most are below but consumers don't know that unless they and neither maybe does I mean I'm sure the supplement brand does where they're getting their oil from but unless you ask for I want a certificate of you know authenticity and I want to see you know what what the heavy metals are in the product then you're gonna have to ask the supplement brand for that because they're not gonna tell you unless you ask.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

That's interesting. I of course am a big uh third party testing nerd we had a representative from informed uh choice informed sport uh informed protein informed ingredient informed manufacturer they've got five different programs excellent that's the one I endorsed I just think they're the most thorough the most convenient to use um not to get on a too big a sidetrack but I've invited NSF Sport and BSCG their competitors on the podcast they have an open invitation so I always like to throw that out there.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

What are they actually testing for versus uh Goed and and IFOS well goed and them don't they don't test they just they set the standard and say this is what you have to make a lot of these oil manufacturers they're doing their own internal testing plus it goes to third party so what NSF what informed sport and I agree Andy Paul those guys at Inform Sport and even the folks at NSF especially John Travis and those guys they do a really nice job but um our fish oil is certified by Inform Sport. I think it's a little bit more rigorous when you look at things like batch testing when you look at um swabbing the facility that's like you said a whole nother but they're looking for banned substances first. That's the most important thing is athletes that get drug tested does it have anything any adulteration inside that product that would cause them to test positive whether it's a you know an illegal steroid whether it's uh a diuretic whether it's a stimulant but again if you're using a any supplement creatin fish oil protein and it's got the NSF or it's got the informed sport logo, I mean you're never 100% clean, but I don't think we've ever seen any cases where any of those products that truly were tested by those organizations had any banned substances in them. So athletes college pro Olympic should never be using a supplement no matter who tells them to do so. Because there's a lot of untrusted individuals that I've seen when I was working with a few Olympic athletes way back in the day they went to a healthcare provider and I won't say what type and That healthcare provider recommended a certain product and they tested positive. And this Olympic athlete was the sixth fastest woman in the world, that's for 100 meters. She had to sit out for a year. And I even told her, I was like, you know, that's not that type of professional to trust because they don't know the first thing about third-party testing. Um, but yeah, in some cases, they're testing heavy metals, they're looking at other instances. But the brand itself will have a certificate from the manufacturing facility. So where these products are manufactured, meaning GC Rebra is the oil supplier, they send their oil to the manufacturing facility, also known as a contract manufacturer. That company is the one that's encapsulating it, putting it in soft gels, putting it in bottles. They also go through a large lab test to determine, you know, from the time the oil gets there from Norway to the manufacturing facility in the United States, has any oxidation happened? If it's kept sealed in a barrel, like most cases, then the answer should be no. But we have a finished report on all of our batches to know what's that what's that value.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

So I that's interesting. I don't know if we had talked about this before. Let if you'd like to explain briefly, Omega Quant, you have your own your own product. You talked before about the the manufacturer that you used. And I did not know that it was tested by uh Informed Sport, which of course just uh makes me more enthusiastic about it. Could you tell us about that product briefly and what it's called and how we can purchase it?

SPEAKER_01 45:31

It's called Parasol Nutrition. Parasol. It's a sister company. We have to keep the lab and the in the supplement separate just from a regulatory standpoint. Yeah, Parasol has been around a little over four, I think, three to four years, about four years now. Um we got it certified for sport three years ago, and it's scaling quickly in that space. A couple of reasons. Um it's greater than 90% triglyceride form, so it's right around 97-98% triglyceride, 1400 milligrams of EPA and DHA per two soft gels. Um 50 to 100% less expensive than all the other certified for sport brands. So we're doing some pretty cool things um in regards to specials for colleges and teams. I'll be at the CSCCA show next week, next uh Monday and Tuesday. We're exhibiting there. I don't know, Andy, if you'll be there or not. But um it's a really and then we'll be at the ASPDA, which is all for sports dietitians in New Orleans, in about two and a half weeks. Yeah, we have a really cool program now for teams and schools that can buy our product in large volumes. They get free omega-3 testing as part of that. But uh it's pretty cool. I mean, it's a great oil. Uh G GC is the oldest supplier in the world of oil, and just uh we're helping a lot of schools test, and but we're at we're helping a lot of schools cut their budgets in half by using our oil, and then we're throwing in free testing on top of that. Like we just had two big universities just for football alone. We sent them 70 to 90 free free test kits because of the amount of oil they bought.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

I might see you in a couple weeks, New Orleans. Uh uh New Orleans, I'm in uh Floribama, Pensacola, Florida.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

So that's just uh my wife and I were my daughter were just in Foley this weekend for a volleyball tournament.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yeah, so who knows? I I might make my way up there to see you. Let's talk about um some of the trends in this industry, the the different stacks, which I've always I kind of have a knee-jerk reaction to all to these different stacks and formulations. I kind of like simpler is often better, but we're seeing uh vitamin D, CoQ10, uh joint support, uh other kind of antioxidant blends. When are we getting uh too clever? Uh is there any uh value for spend justification there?

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yeah, I mean, I think those nutrients you mentioned, I mean, I personally like those nutrients. I take vitamin D, CoQ10. Um, I think some of these, some of these blends might be a little. I think the challenge with a lot of the products we see on the market right now is just most of them don't have enough in them to really have uh a true benefit, right? We see a lot of proprietary blends of ingredients, especially in the the world of sleep and cortisol management and things like that, or mushroom extracts or the rise coffees of the world that you don't even know any idea how much rise mushroom extract you're getting from some of these products. But I think there's just not a lot of transparency. And I think it's important with any product you take is you know how much am I getting of that? If anything has a proprietary blend on it, that is an instant red flag, and it you should just walk away and say, look, I it's a big scam. Um, you know, and anybody that is trying to sell that, they know it. They just they're there's selling products that people that don't know much about supplements.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Yeah, proprietary blend is code for I'm not gonna tell you, and it's all in the subtext of that subtext is that I have something to hide. And you're absolutely right. My other criticism with these these blends is they almost never get it right. So my favorite now is this creatine HMB. Well, creatine you generally take it in one in one dose. HMB, you've got to spread it throughout the day. And it's the ratios aren't ideal. So in order to take enough creatine, you're gonna be taking too much HMB, which might not kill you, it's just a waste of money because that's an expensive ingredient, especially if you're getting my HMB, which is the only HMB with any clinicals behind it. Uh but I digress, Tavis. So we're going to we're gonna do first time on Veltovich uh fit the signal podcast. Uh we're gonna we're gonna draw blood. Uh so walk me walk me through this test. I uh you were you handed me out one of these uh tests when I met you and it would have been Fort Lauderdale two weeks ago. So what do I what do I do? You gave me instructions.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Yeah, you should have an alcohol pad in there. Uh so yeah, alcohol pad, but before you mail that off, be sure to register that test kit as the in the portal. You'll set up a an account that way you can get your result. But there should be an alcohol pad. Make sure your hand's warm, index finger, finger, or middle finger is the one you want to poke, and then um warm it up, use the alcohol pad, and then once you prick the the side of that finger, whatever one I like to use my right index finger because I can prick it and then turn it like lightly turn it over and let it drop into the circle. But you'll wipe the first spot spot of blood away with the gauze pad. So you want to make sure the gauze pad's open as well, and then squeeze it. Once you feel like you have enough light, turn it over and let it let it drop into the circle. You don't want to push it against it. Um, if you don't, if my for me, my blood likes to hang out, and then sometimes it won't drop off, and if it doesn't, I'll lightly touch it against that circle. It should fill about 70% of that circle.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Okay. So I've I've wiped my finger with the got with the got sorry, wiped my finger with the alcohol pad.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

And now next step is we're gonna take needle to finger. Yep. Just y just yank her off.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Just twist it.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Alright. So I've twist I've twisted it off.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Yeah, and then either I mean, if you're right-handed on, I like to just use my right finger, and then I'll keep it, I'll keep it like that and kind of poke the top. Uh no, no, like on the side, a little bit on the side.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

On the side like this?

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Alright, poke away.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Yep, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Fire when ready.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Alright, and then wipe the first wipe that use the gauze, wipe the first spot of blood away. You'll try to squeeze it. That's just you didn't feel anything?

SPEAKER_00 51:51

I did. So we got we we got a little bit of blood, not not too much. Don't know if I did it enough.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

Yeah, so what you'll have to do is put your hand down like that a little bit and start kind of milking the finger a little bit. That way it should be.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Okay, yeah, now we now we've got blood.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Yeah, so once you have enough to where it's like a nice little bubble, keep going a little bit more, keep squeezing it. Then you'll light you'll turn that finger over and you'll you'll you'll squeeze it from the like the bottom all the way up.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Just like yeah, I think we've got enough to drop now.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Yeah, and then turn it over and lightly put that finger next to that spot. All right. But just don't just don't push it again. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

There we go. Bullseye. That's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

That's a great spot.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

All right.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Now you can just cover your finger and put the band-aid on or whatever you need, and then that should dry in about 15 to 20 seconds. You'll fill out that card, but then also make sure you go to the website and register that test kit. Yep, that looks great. That's a great spot.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Okay, so you you gave me three circles, and we only needed we only needed one.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

That's because vitamin D and A1C, some other things that we we have two different types of tests out. We have two tests that are not fatty acids. Everything else we do is fatty acid related. So um, but we only sell A1C and vitamin D to healthcare providers. We don't sell those to consumers. They need three spots. They need three spots.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Okay, so that's that's good to know for the the people at home. They don't need they don't need to go pricking up the countryside that just uh one one and done. Uh now, the actual test I'm I'm doing, and we we discussed this, you kind of had two two uh three tiers. So, you know, kind of like Goldilocks and the the three bears. This one didn't give me enough data, this one gives me too much data, and this one is just right. So, what for our our consumer at home who wants a full picture and doesn't need the full scientist toolkit, what what is the name of the one that they want, the Goldilocks that this one is just right?

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Yeah, so you're you're taking the plus, Andy. Um, the basic is the basic test, which is just your overall omega-3 index. The plus will give them the omega-3 index, the omega-6 to three ratio, the arachidonic acid to EPA ratio, and the trans fat index. The complete is all 26 fatty acids and ratios. That is probably a little bit too much data for the typical consumer. I mean, even for most healthcare providers, they're like, ah, this may be a little bit over their head in regards to fatty acids. So either the basic or the plus would be sufficient.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

All right. Uh probably don't need it, probably don't need my tourniquet. Looks like a band-aid. The band-aid you provided in the kit will be sufficient. Uh so been super informative. We're we're coming up on time, so we want to make sure we we get to the the lightning round, and I'll be registering this test and sending and sending it in quickly. Lightning round, the um most overrated omega-3 marketing claim you've seen.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

You know, I don't know if it's omega-3, but it's just this whole fatty 15 thing. Um, people are spending a lot of money, and it's one one people don't people don't realize is the research is not really clear on that. Uh it's a dairy fat. And you drink milk, eat cottage cheese, you get plenty fatty 15, or C15 is the fatty acid. Um, I think that's just something that's a lot of hype with little research to support. And but we are as a lab looking to measure that just because people want to know what it is. So it's like, all right, well, maybe we'll maybe we'll offer that in the future. Not sure. Um, I think another thing, too, is when you look at, I guess, overrated marketing claim. I don't know if it's overrated in omega-3. I think it's more underrated in the fact that you know people are not measuring it enough. Um, I think we need to include this as part of every initial health panel, like a cholesterol test, because some of the some of the research we have shows that the prediction risk factors can be as important. We know total cholesterol is pretty a fairly useless number, even some of the other markers outside of some extensive lipoprotein. So I think the most important thing is is the fact that also I've heard too much fish oil causes prostate cancer, or uh the other is AFib. I mean, we have research in healthy individuals, that's not the case. When you look at blood. So again, we have to look at blood and not just look at fish oil in general.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Uh, you're absolutely right about the omega omega-5s. I'm interested in other fatty acids. So we talked about omega-7s and macadamia nuts. It's an interesting hypothesis. I'm I'm curious about what they do, but when you look into the research behind it, it's a great big black hole. Uh personal note before we close out, what's the one thing that you wish you could tell your younger self? Something I ask all my guests.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Invest in Bitcoin. Go back and invest in Bitcoin and put a lot of money there. Yeah, um, man, that's a you know, when I've had a guest on, I would ask them the same question. And I've always said, I wonder what I would tell myself like to go back and do. You know, I think one would be be an entrepreneur early in life. Um, you know, be c work for yourself early on. I love what I do. I have no plans on ever leaving Omega Quant unless unless they tell me to leave. At 50, you know, I'd love to have another 10 good years of work because I don't I don't want to be working until I'm 80 years old or 75. I think that's not maybe even whatever, but I love what I do. But I think it's important for people at some point to where, you know, they have some little flexibility to do some things on their own, too. I think early on, that way they have full control. But I'm fortunate to where I work for a company that they're just they're awesome, great people, family-owned. It's not corporate-based. And uh, you know, I get to I get to sell things that I love, that has research behind it. There's no snake oil, and you get a lot of support. So, but I think just for the average person, it's just try to give yourself flexibility with what you do in regards to your career and and have always have um, you know, the options outside to go and do some things that you love. I would tell myself to be an offensive coordinator for football. That's what I was telling my wife the other day. It's just like doing football season. I'm calling plays, like the next play should be this, and then I'll say something, and then the announcer will say it. And she just looks and goes, you know, you really missed your calling. You should have been a sports caster or you should have been an offensive coordinator. And I'm like, sports caster probably would be a lot less stressful than, you know, the constant job change that you see, you know, in the world of football coaches, because the head, the head football, the head coach of college football is the the fired head football coach in college football is the best job ever. You know, you're sitting at home collecting tens of millions of dollars and you don't have to go to work.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Yeah, I think I think you're right about sports caster, less stress, especially if you keep a bot uh keep a bottle in your drawer, a la Howard Cocell. Well, uh, Tavis, it's been a great honor to host you today for our listeners at home who want to uh follow follow you and learn more. Uh, what should they be doing?

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Well, yeah, I mean, um they can always reach out to us at OmegaQuant. I mean, I think it's um, you know, you can always reach me at Tavis at omegaquant.com. Obviously, you know, go through Andy with for any type of testing needs that you guys have. I know you said setting up your affiliate, because I think it'd be really great to get that stuff from you. Um, yeah, but I mean if you have any if it's more professional based and you want to reach out for a team, a sport, an organization, I'm happy to to kind of meet with you guys and we can talk about that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Well, thank you again, Tavis. It's been a great honor to host you, and hopefully I'll be seeing you in New Orleans in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Yes, sir. Thank you, Andy. Really appreciate it. Honored to be here.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Honored to have you. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Have a good one.