Dr. Irfan Ali: The Humility and Humanity of Leadership

Spoke to Dr. Irfan Ali about his journey to creating a large healthcare business and his passion for art, self care, and remaining humble through the struggles of life. 

Dr. Ali began his career as a physician in Pakistan and immigrated to the US, where he worked as a researcher and home improvement store janitor, before establishing his medical license and building a huge healthcare business, Pioneer Medical Group, based in Tampa, FL. 

Learn more about Dr Ali at https://irfanalimd.com and connect with him on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/s-irfan-ali-md/ 

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This episode is brought to you by Seasoned Advice HR, where I help eye care clinics to hire, retain, and manage better — helping you get Better Results Through People. Learn more at seasoned-advice.com. 

Contact me directly at mike@seasoned-advice.com 

Get my free HR and leadership downloads here: https://www.seasoned-advice.com/signup-for-free-downloads

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Greetings and welcome to iCare Leadership Live. This is Mike Lyons, your host of excited, because today I've got Dr. Irvane Ali on the show. Dr. Ali is an entrepreneur, he's an artist, he's an author, he's a multi-talented individual, and he has started a large business uh in the healthcare space. And he's going to talk about leadership and humility and so many different topics. And I just I love to hear a physician um putting emphasis on leadership, and he's got some unique perspectives that I think are valuable. So check out the show. Dr. Irfan Ali has joined me here on the show. Dr. Ali, thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today.

Immigrant Journey And Early Struggles

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Absolutely. And I am so glad that we were able to get in touch because you have such a unique perspective. And I think that the listeners will really appreciate your diverse perspective. You have so many skills and you tie a lot of things in together with your perspective on healthcare and leadership. And, you know, just for the audience here, I want to say Dr. Dr. Ali is a CEO of a healthcare group. He's founded a nonprofit that does work in his community with healthcare for help providing healthcare to people experiencing homelessness. He's an author, he's an artist. I mean, he's a multi-talented individual. And so I guess where I'd like to start with our conversation, Dr. Ali, is you know, you have an interesting story of how you came here. You know, came here to the United States. So your your life background, I think, is interesting. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about how you came to be here and um what what is it that drives you now today?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Um again, thank you, Mike, for having me today. I think um the question that you asked, I can talk about us for a few hours.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Um I think that uh one of the things which is what which has always been important to me is um um how you can continue this journey where you're working on yourself and trying to improve um uh even your self-awareness. And then um another thing which is important to me is um you know life is just not all about you. You know, you have to you have to think about others around you. Um my journey coming to uh coming from Pakistan all the way to uh Chicago um is uh is is an interesting one. I um um you know I I never had a I was never really planning to come over here. I used to run a charity back home. And um uh, you know, those those uh chaotic years trying to do the good with the political upheaval and everything which happens, that uh I was uh I made a decision at that time that I cannot continue uh for my own safety and everything which is concerned. So I came to America, I was already a doctor, but I didn't have my uh USMLEs, my medical license exams. So I started in this country um doing some research in the morning and doing carpet cleaning uh in the evening to pay the bills for for many, many, many years. And I think that um uh that taught me a lot. Um, I think that uh doing something completely out of your comfort zone, um, that was the start for me. And I thought I I I know that I realized at that time that there are so many things, even about myself, that I just have never really discovered. And um, and I need to I need to make sure that um moving forward, I need to do the best I can to not just learn about myself, my self-awareness, but different tools and different things that I can do to make maybe one day make a difference in somebody's life. I remember uh this is back in um uh uh you know late 1990s. I was talking to a friend, and I said that if uh ever given an opportunity uh to create um employment, I will make sure that it is just and it is uh good for people. Uh it is, it is, it is, it should be a shared dream, not just a dream of mine. And I think that that is that has been my knot, and that has been something that I've been doing for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Well, I I totally admire that. And as a human resources person, you know, I got I got into HR because I really believe that we can create win-win workplaces. So just what you're talking about is create a just environment, but you know, but also make it a profit for the business, a benefit for the patient. Everyone wins in that situation. Um sounds like you have that same outlook.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I do. I I think that um like I said earlier, you know, we always say that um um uh I want to do this, I want to do this for myself, I want to grow, I want to educate myself, but we forget that um uh success is dependent uh on teams. I mean, you can have individual success. You can say that I am uh I have done this, I have done some uh magnificent work, but uh we forget to talk about a journey it takes. And uh and the journey teaches you a lot. Sometimes it humbles you. Um, you know, sometimes this journey could be difficult, but it is much easier, like I said, if you have a if you have a shared dream with other people that are uh working alongside you. And I think that that has been my biggest success, that uh able to work with people, even able to work with people were difficult. I think that defines a leader significantly differently than uh somebody who can only work with their favorites.

Teams, Humility, And Shared Dreams

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, that's that is really important. Um, you know, one of the things that you've talked about is that, you know, in any business and any organization, there are some there are people who may not always be visible, they may not always be out front and you know on the cover of the of the of the practice or or you know, they're invisible, they're hidden, right? And you have kind of a perspective on that, and and maybe you know, your experience of cleaning carpet might have helped you kind of come to that, but like I'd love to hear more about your take on that.

The Invisible Workforce Perspective

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Sure. So this is I I remember that moment very clearly. I um uh I was doing some leukemia research in the morning. I I was working on some data entry and trying to figure it out what would be the right methodology moving forward. In the evening, um I went uh to a Home Depot. I think I was supposed to clean Home Depot that night. And uh I changed from my suit that I was wearing in the morning to the to the clothes that uh are required uh for cleaning. And I remember that the moment you change into a certain uniform, sometimes some people just become invisible to a lot of folks out there. Uh I remember when I was uh uh cleaning in that corridor and people were walking by, you know, some of them are not even giving you a smile or just even say hi to you. I feel that um these invisible people around us are everywhere. Just because uh somebody thinks I am not important. Um uh and I felt that day that I'm important in a way that I'm important to my family, I'm important to my friends. Uh I do exist. Uh, but the society and the way that uh we look at things, and we completely forget the invisible people. The same thing walking down the streets, you see these homeless individuals. That is another shade of invisible people, that somebody uh is on the floor, uh, passed out. Um, you know, sometimes you're wondering if they if they are even alive or not. So so that has been one of my mainstays that I want to make sure that the people who are around us who makes us what we are today in some ways or form. For example, uh you could be the best neurosurgeon ever. Uh, but the person who cleans the room does not clean it right, or the people who bring the supplies to you, the truckers who brought bring all those things to the hospitals, the neurosurgeon will not be able to do anything. We all have a role which is more important than the titles that we come up with. And that is um a big philosophy in my life that uh titles make you entitled, uh, roles make you um a friend to somebody because you are helpful. And uh so those concepts are very important to me in everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

So if I'm a let's say I if if there's a physician out there listening, or maybe a CEO or a practice leader, and they resonate with that message, how can they how can they help to elevate and appreciate and or engage the people in their practice that maybe are not as visible? Are there certain things that that you think a doctor or a leader can do to help um engage those people so that they feel important and they realize their value?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

So I think it all comes down to I I I try to practice and I and I try to make sure that my north is always the human element. You know, even medicine, you know, healthcare is about about human beings. It's a human business. Right? It is um, you know, you're not just dealing with organs, you're just not dealing with uh kidneys and liver. You know, you're dealing with people who are who are afraid, you know, of uh what the outcomes would be. There are people who are um you know who are showing their vulnerabilities that uh uh that uh you know they they want to see hope out there. And uh and I think that in everything that we do, whether it's business, medicine, politics, whatever somebody is into, uh the human element should never be forgotten. And I think that sometimes we we bury ourselves in statistics and the outcomes and the mortalities and the and the turnovers and uh length of stays and uh uh PLs and margins, that we forget that by the end of the day, there's a human out there that is um you know that is making a difference in everything that we do. We work in a very high-stake environment, you know, and it requires leaders to gather themselves and regulate themselves, but at the same time be a support to the people around you. And sometimes we just forget that.

Human Element Over Metrics

Sponsor Message

Why Fractured But Fearless

SPEAKER_01 11:41

This show is sponsored by Season Advice HR Services, where I help clinical healthcare businesses to make more money and save more money by hiring better, retaining better, and reducing your HR risk. If you would like an HR assessment or ongoing HR support, please reach out to me at seasoned-advice.com. You know, one thing I want to touch on is you've written you've written a book, Fractured But Fearless. Um, and I have multiple multiple questions about that. Um the first, I guess, is the title. The title of the book. I'm curious what what inspired the title and uh what might readers find, what is it that you're hoping that readers will find within this book?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

So I I think that um when I was writing the book, I uh I wanted to make sure that I've seen a lot of books where um you know people want to learn from somebody who has been maybe successful in business, and they want to write that how you can be a successful businessman. Um I wanted to write about a journey it takes. You know, I wanted to talk about that the failures are the pauses in between, which teaches you something different for the next one. So the book is about lessons from failures. It is not about uh how to get rich, it is not about um how to run um uh how to build businesses. It is all about that how we can first change ourselves a little bit, have self-awareness about yourself. And then I wanted to write about uh all the things that I didn't do right, all the things that I noticed other people not doing right, and uh and what I learned from it, and uh what I did the next time around, that it made a difference. I also wanted to make sure that some of the fundamental uh things that I've seen in leaders, the crafts in leadership, uh, that uh people uh sometimes they their ego gets in the way, sometimes they are too much uh trying to figure out the competition, that they lose their own identity. Um and I think that knowing what you do and how you can be different, the book is all about whether just because somebody's stuck, as I have been stuck in my life many times, there have been times when I'm sitting in a room and I'm and I'm wondering, man, I how am I going to get out of this? You know, how am I going to pay that um uh you know that bill? How am I going to uh to make sure that I'm able to pay the rent? And um am I going to get a residency? Am I going to get a fellowship? All those uncertainties that um that make you think this is the end sometimes. Uh, but uh it is not the end. I think it is it is for the people who feel that um there is no light out there. Uh maybe they can take a pause and think. And I think that this book is all about uh that journey that uh maybe someone who's stuck in life can see some light and uh maybe can learn a few things from there.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

You know, it it's tough out there, and a lot of clinical businesses, you know, they have those moments of struggle. You know, if you're a physician, you own a practice, and there are a lot of there are a lot of day-to-day struggles and and there is uncertainty. Is there a one tip or insight that you might give to a physician out there who is maybe owning a practice and wondering, gosh, you know, where where is this going? Can I sustain this? You know, I was talking to a doctor the other day who was asking those same questions and seemingly successful, you know, multiple physicians in the practice, but it was struggling, and she was kind of expressing this sort of, gosh, I don't know that this is sustainable. Um what is there one thing that you might say to a physician like that who's having a moment like that?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

So those moments are going to be um they are numerous in any in everybody's career. Am I going to make it? I think the best answer is um every time I see a big problem, I dissect that into smaller pieces. You know, like uh you cannot eat a full pineapple. You have to you have to eat it in chunks, right? So every time I see that you know there is a there's a problem of any sort, I like to divide that into smaller pieces. You know, for practices, for businesses, uh first you need to see what is what is not working. And uh and the why it is not working. The why of things is very important. There's a whole chapter I wrote about uh the why of things. Uh we all talk about the why of things, but we don't talk about the how of things or the when of things. The how could very well be the tools that you require to make a change, the teams that you require that can make you successful, the processes that you need to put in that that can make it better. But just being afraid and not having self-awareness of uh why something is not working, um, you know, cannot really take you too far. Um, the other thing is that if somebody feels that they are not able to move forward, they're not being successful, it doesn't mean that that is the end. There is help out there in every way or form. Um even in my book, I mentioned many times that I have to rely on other people to uh maybe some maybe review some of the processes that what I am doing could be done differently. I was just in a call with one of the hospital administrators, and um, you know, one of the processes that we are doing um uh for quality is not showing the results that we uh that we we we desire. And uh my first discussion was that uh what we can do differently first, rather than asking everybody else to change. And I think sometimes that is the biggest hurdle, that uh we are not ready for change. And uh and then change and failures and all of those things give you that courage, you know, that that courage, uh, you know, it is uh it is like um uh I I I call it um uh the failure recovery um uh methodology. That uh once you fail between the two failures, you learn something different, and then you go to the next step. Um and failure is uh is is can be used as a reluctant mentor towards success rather than just sitting on that part. But every time there's a big problem, I always say discipline to small pieces and take one piece at a time, whether it is your scheduling, whether it is the financing, whether it is your strategy, something needs to be done differently. And and and maybe sometimes you need ask, you need to ask for help from others. Uh, we are afraid to ask for other uh for others to to help us because uh it makes us feel or look weak. So that we have to work out of uh that um you know that perception and uh and and go to the next step.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Getting help, it can be so hard to recognize that you need help and then to ask for help, you know, as as physicians or senior leaders, you know, we're told and taught and trained, hey, you've got to figure this out, you've got to do this, and high, high-achieving individuals, you know, we all probably have this mental recording that says, I've got to figure it out, I've got to do it all by myself, right? But I guess that's not true, is it?

Timing, Help, And Adaptability

SPEAKER_00 19:59

No, that's not true. I mean, no, uh I as I as I as I as I used to say, um, you know, success is dependent on a couple of things. One is um uh, you know, when the when the lady lock knocks on your door, you need to be dressed up. When you say dressed up, I mean that that all the hard work, all the tools that you need, um, you need to make sure that you have acquired them by then. But that itself does not really do it. The second thing that you need to have is um um, you know, you are going to require help from some other folks. Um, you know, success just doesn't happen independently, usually a team effort. Uh, and then the third part is the timing sometimes that uh you know you need to make sure that you're able to pivot and uh and change at the right time. Because if you don't, look what happened to blockbusters, you know, look uh you know what happened to some of the technologies that we have seen grow and completely disappear. So sometimes we have to change, and change gives us um um, you know, provide us with a different insight rather than just trying to do the same thing exactly the same way all the time. And I feel that makes us stubborn and that you know moves us backwards rather than moving forward.

Art As Focus, Renewal, And Insight

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, I want to I want to shift gears a little bit here because I alluded to earlier your your passion for art and there's some artwork on the cover of your book there, which I assume is a work that you created. Yeah, can you talk about that piece of artwork and maybe also about the role of art in your life?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

So, my one thing which is important to me, I I feel that we all need Something to, you know, you can call it meditation, you can call it any mindful exercise, but you need to find some time where you can focus um on uh on on some way uh to think outside of every day that we live in. You know, I think for me, art is that um um is that venue where I can uh I can um you know I don't have to worry about everything else. That's like the meditation for me, that I can paint, I can sculpt, I can take pictures, and I can express myself in different ways. For you, it could very well be yoga, it could be running, but it is something outside of the work that we that we live in. Now, when you think about art, um, you know, maybe it is my escapism that um life is absolute, full of absolutes, right? The laws of physics are absolutes, you know, our time on this earth is absolute, right? Um art, when you paint, you can bend those absolutes, you can um bend that line uh which cannot be turned in a real life. Uh you can deal with abstracts, and uh so that is my way of uh expressing um you know uh some of the some of the um some of the things that I look at in a different way. Uh and it gives it a great escape for me to um just not think about something else and it it it gives me some peace, it brings me focus. I can work on a on a two-inch um metal plate for two hours without having any other thing to worry about. And I think that that gives me that that that uh invigorates me, it gives me more energy, uh, and I can think more um you know uh more clearly than uh than the whole rut of uh you know nine to five, nine to five, and everything which comes with it. So uh art is a art is a great way to um you know even to think uh about a different way of um accomplishing your um uh you know your projects. Uh it is a great tool. Um everybody has to find their own way of going to the next step. For me, it is art, and this is something even all my chapters, either it's a photography or an art, which tells about the story, and this is something which um I really like to do it, you know, really keeps me grounded all the time.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

You know, you you you said something just now that really resonated for me, and it's about connecting your passion uh for you know art or running or yoga, whichever that is, connecting you know, with with the natural world, you know, and how it affects your productivity. And it it really gives back. I have found that that kind of thing it puts right back into your work because it makes you a better person, it re-energizes you. And um I don't know, have you found that to be true? And and have you found that people who don't have an outlet like that maybe struggle, you know, at work or uh and and maybe they they get overloaded, or have you seen struggles with people who haven't burnout, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

I see it every day. I mean, in healthcare, especially um the times that we have seen during COVID and everything else which comes around. Um, I think that people um who do not have other outlets um burn out pretty pretty fast. I think that people who cannot find time for themselves um you know burn out pretty fast. I think that in the past 20 years or so, you know, I almost 20 years ago, I made a pledge that every year I'm gonna try to learn something different. You know, it could be quantum physics, it could very well be uh archery, you know, it could be diving, I will run this year, I will uh try, I'll learn to paint, uh, do photography in a different way. But that makes you um uh interesting, even just for yourself. Forget about anybody else. I think it gives you a certain level of confidence that you have learned a new skill. And uh otherwise, I mean, uh our work is uh is tough. I mean, you know, you're dealing with uh, especially in healthcare, you're dealing with people's life. Uh there is nothing more personal. Um, there is nothing more valuable uh than uh than what we do. So if we don't find any other other outlets, you know, it just becomes a rat. You cannot really move forward. So uh for for our for my own sanity of my mind, I ask everybody that uh find something which gives you some peace, whatever that is. But it has to be not just always your uh uh your nine to five job, not just always uh uh that uh you know that we have trained well or to train for. It uh it provides you some different different avenues, some different ways to think about things.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Well, I think that's a great place to conclude our conversation. We've talked about so many different things, and ending on this idea of self-care and and feeding back into yourself is so powerful. Um, thank you for spending time with me, Dr. Ali, today. I think it's been a wonderful conversation. How how can people learn more about you or and maybe get their hands on your book if they're interested?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Thank you so much, Mike. It's been my pleasure and offer for the viewers. Uh you can uh go to my website, um uh I-R F A-N-A-L-I-M-D.com, ervanalemd.com, and uh you can uh see some of my uh my um uh artwork and photography in the gallery, and you can uh even get a link for my book. Uh but Mike, it's been a pleasure. Uh I I've seen some of your work, some of the work that you are doing. I think it is helping a lot of folks. I think that uh working in this space, uh, what you're doing is is giving hope. And I think um uh that's the biggest thing that anybody can do. So I really appreciate you uh bringing me on board today.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Well, that brings this episode of iCare Leadership Live to a conclusion. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show on your podcast app and share it with someone who would value the content. I promise to bring you more guests and content to help make you a better eye care clinical leader. I also invite you to subscribe to my HR newsletter for iCare leaders. You can find information about that at seasons advice.com. Now go out there and lead with confidence.