Pizza Parties Won’t Fix Your Turnover Problem

Chad Miller and I explore how small and mid-sized ophthalmology businesses can compete for talent and drive profit by building culture into daily behavior, not posters. We unpack the real cost of turnover, low-cost listening tools, and how to coach struggling managers toward values alignment.

• how good bosses, teams, and culture retain talent
• the 0.5 to 2x salary cost of turnover
• revenue per employee as a growth metric
• moving beyond lip service to weekly culture rituals
• low-cost listening tactics that build trust
• transparency and vulnerability as the base of safety
• coaching misaligned managers with clear values and behaviors
• hiring and firing by values to protect culture
• framing work as us against the obstacle

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Background
• 0:48 Faith, Purpose, And Career Path
• 2:28 Competing For Talent With Culture
• 5:18 Why Leadership Matters For Small Clinics
• 7:18 The Real Cost Of Turnover
• 10:05 Culture Beyond Posters And Pizza
• 11:58 Sponsor Message And ROI Of Culture
• 13:25 Engagement, Productivity, And Revenue Per Employee
• 15:30 Microsoft’s Culture Shift Under Nadella
• 16:50 Low Cost Tactics: Listen And Act
• 19:01 Trust, Vulnerability, And Safety
• 21:10 Can Struggling Managers Change
• 23:34 Aligning To Values And Clear Expectations
• 25:06 Coach Together Against The Problem
• 26:24 How To Reach Chad And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Greetings and welcome to Healthcare Leadership Live. My name is Mike Lyons, and I am, as always, am your host for the show. And you know, Healthcare Leadership Live is all about bringing you guests and content to help you be a better leader. And today we have with us Chad Miller, who is a leadership expert. Chad, welcome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:23

Glad to join.

SPEAKER_00: 0:25

Yeah, and um, you know, leadership is so, so vital. Uh, I talk about it a lot, and but I think a lot of leaders, you know, they don't understand what that means always. Uh, and so I'm super excited to get into this topic. Um, but you know, maybe starting out, Chad, if you could just tell us a little bit about what you do um and why you do it as it relates to leadership.

SPEAKER_01: 0:48

Yeah, sure. So for me, the biggest foundation of the why is definitely my faith. Uh, I'm a follower of Jesus and try to let that inform everything I do. And uh my first bat my bachelor's and first master's were in theology and ministry, so that's a big part of uh who I am, what I do, and all that. Uh the book we we've discussed. I'm working on a book not related to our topics today so much, but related to that. But, anyways, so that's that's a big part of the why about caring for people, wanting to help them grow, succeed, thrive personally, professionally, spiritually. Uh, part of my background for a number of years, I also worked on the side doing group exercise instruction. So helping people grow physically, grow their health and wellness. So, really, everything for me is about trying to help, like I say, people grow, thrive, succeed, improve the quality of their life. My business is called Life Abundant Leadership. And when some people hear that, they think the life part, they think I'm a life coach. And I've thought about rebranding just for that reason, because I focus more on the business side of things. But uh, the reason I call it that is, you know, work is the biggest part of our waking lives in terms of time, just about, you know, and if work gets better, life gets better. When our work experience gets better, life gets better. Uh, you know, when you hate going to work, when you don't enjoy the boss you work under, when you don't enjoy your work culture, that drags down all of life. And when those things get better, life gets better. And that's my motivation and my why for why I do what I do at the deepest level. But a little bit of my other background and what sort of led me into it is in addition to the theology ministry background, I've been in tech, the tech world. I started writing code since I was in the seventh grade, and that led into working in the IT corporate world for about 15 years. Um, most of that was in the San Francisco Bay Area. So a very competitive area for tech talent. And as I grew through levels of leadership, I was competing with Meta, Google, Apple for talent. And my company, they were a large company, they're Fortune 500, global company, but they weren't Fortune 5 like those are. And so we couldn't pay what those companies could to attract and retain talent. And so we had to compete with good leadership, good team, and good culture. And we found that that really worked well. You know, you could pay people less and retain them because they had a good boss, a good team, and a good culture. And when you have those things, you're less likely to leave. You know, I ended up working there for 12 years when I thought that I'd work there maybe three to five when I started. But I had a good boss, a good team, and a good culture within our department. And, you know, I love that. And what even though I knew I could have gone elsewhere and made more money, those things kept me there for, you know, 12 years. So that was what sort of started turning on the light bulbs, like, hey, this culture stuff, this leadership team stuff really makes a big difference on performance of the organization, attracting and retaining talent. And so while I was growing through levels of leadership, I did a master's in organizational leadership and started studying consulting firms like Patrick Lancioni's uh table group and his five dysfunctions of a team and all this different stuff. And that led me into the consulting I do now with Life Abundant Leadership, helping companies grow their revenue and their profitability through better team, better uh leadership, and better culture. When those three things get better, it really drives not just you know the the life experience, which is my deepest why, but it also just helps the companies perform better. You know, most leaders don't recognize the cost of turnover and how that's hitting their profitability.

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

Um so much of what you said there uh resonates for me. There's a lot to unpack. There's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there. Um the first thing, I guess I'll just start with one thing that you touched on um because a lot of the a lot of the clinical healthcare businesses that I deal with are what I would consider small to medium-sized businesses. And for folks that are listening right now, you you might be in that category. Um you can't identify with the Fortune 5 or even the Fortune 500, and you talked about that. You talked about how culture and leadership can can help you attract, retain great people, and help you be more competitive. Um, do you feel like that, you know, for even like a small business, uh, maybe 10, 20 employees, 100 employees, is leadership something that they should be thinking about?

SPEAKER_01: 5:49

Yeah, definitely. So I would say uh I have realized in moving from that tech environment in the Bay Area where everybody, every leader, good leader knew that in order to attract and retain talent, they had to be focusing on culture and investing in it heavily to moving to Texas and working with small to mid-sized businesses. To your point, for a lot of them, I'd realize that's not even on their radar. You know, they don't even recognize it. But to your question, I would say it definitely does matter. Um, while right about the time I left California to move to Texas, uh, I invested in a small business, a Ninja Warrior gym. If you've seen the TV show American Ninja Warrior, I used to compete and train in some of that. And so there's this gym that I knew some of the guys that opened it, got involved with them, and I'm on their board. And uh that was my, I would say, first real experience. And I I'm just on the board, I'm not always in the day-to-day and stuff like that. But I will say it gave me greater insight and sympathy to what a lot of small business leaders are dealing with, you know, significant budget constraints. That company started right before COVID, which sort of undermined it right from the beginning. Starting in late 2019, with ends up in hindsight, not a great time to start a business with COVID. Uh, and COVID lasted a lot longer in the Bay Area, all the regulations there. But um, all that to say, it's definitely given me insights to see that things like uh leadership, team, and culture, even for organizations that are, you know, like you say, 15 employees, makes a big difference, not just on, you know, the things that feel nice for the employees or, you know, whatever, but on the performance of the organization, on how time is wasted, on how productive people are, um, on how, again, how you retain the people that you employ and the cost that when you have a rotating door of people leaving or something like that. Um, all these things really matter.

SPEAKER_00: 8:01

Um, I'm curious. You know, I've seen so many numbers on the cost of turnover since you brought that up. Um, and I don't know that anyone has a magic figure there, but what you know, what is kind of your operating uh assumption on the cost of turnover um calculation for you know typical employee?

SPEAKER_01: 8:21

Yeah, so my the built-to numbers that I referenced most uh was a study I saw that said the cost is typically between 0.5 and 2x employee salary. Um so if an employee makes 100,000 a year just for a round number and you lose them somewhere between 50 and 200,000. Uh from what I see with other studies as well, the lower they are on that salary spectrum, the more it's towards the 0.5 or even below 0.5. Um, the higher skilled, higher compensation, the more it goes towards the two X. So if you have an attorney or a highly skilled software engineer that you're paying a couple hundred thousand and they're highly specialized, they've got a lot of training to do the specific role they do. Obviously, the cost of like time lost if they leave and the time it takes to hire and train someone up into that level of productivity that that person was, that's when you get more towards the 2x. So, you know, that's when you see like an employee that's maybe making 250, if they quit, you're talking a cost of 500,000 or something to the organization. And when people hear that, they might question it at first. Is it really that much? But if you think about, you know, again, with those kinds of organizations, if you work with a staffing firm, there's costs there. There's cost to the leader, the manager that's doing the hiring, all their lost time and productivity while they're having to uh hire somebody new, all the lost productivity of team members that are having to carry the weight for that person that was lost until the seat is filled. Um, so all that to say, yeah, I say somewhere in that 0.5 to 2x. Um, and that's when you see, like if you're a mid-sized company, 50 employees, uh, typical turnover rates, I think national average is like 20% per year. Some industries higher, some lower. But if you take that 20% of the 50 employees would be 10. And so if you lose 10 employees in a year and each one is costing you 200, a couple hundred, you know, even just down to a hundred thousand, uh, but it can, like I say, be much more. Uh, you know, that's a million dollars that it costs the organization for 10 employees at 100,000. So it it adds up once leaders start seeing those numbers, they're like, wow, I hadn't even really thought about it that way. So um it it kills projects. I was talking with one leader and she was like, one of our customers, we were trying to do this project, and the person that I was working with kept leaving, and over the time of completing that project, she had to work with three different people, and it took them like 18 months to roll out the project. And she was like, if we could have just worked with one person, that could have been cut, you know, like but in thirds and uh saved them a year.

SPEAKER_00: 11:24

And once they finished the project, it was saving them five thousand dollars a month, and so like if you save that year, it would have saved them sixty thousand dollars just in the lost time on that project, so definitely costly, and it doesn't show up on a PL like, oh, your turnover cost you a million dollars this year, like yeah, you know, in my experience, a good financial um director, financial analyst will factor that in and they'll they will see uh and they'll look at your turnover and they'll say, Hey, there's exposure here for your business. And and my no, I usually use the more conservative 50%, and I've heard those same numbers, so I'm glad we're we're kind of on the same page there. But for me, I usually try to operate conservatively, half of that person's salary, and even if you look at half of their salary, um, that's a still a huge number, you know. If you've got if you've got any amount of turnover, then and most of that, a lot of it can is preventable, right? And so it's that preventable turnover. And so I guess turning our minds to preventable turnover and what can we do? How can leadership help us to avoid that preventable turnover? Um, you know, what is what's one thing that comes to mind for you from a leadership perspective that most businesses aren't thinking about? And if they did it, um it would help to make a dent in that preventable turnover and that preventable turnover cost that you were just talking about.

SPEAKER_01: 13:01

Yeah, and the thing that comes to mind first, because it affects the entire organization, and it's a place where, again, in my mind, and in my experience since starting consulting here in Texas with small to mid-sized businesses, is that it's often neglected is organizational culture. When a lot of small business owners hear that, they think touchy-feely, you know, esoteric waste of money kind of thing, like, oh, put some value posters on the wall, stuff like that. And I'm like, you know, throw a pizza party here and there. And it's like, uh, when when that's what culture is, yes, it's a waste of time and money, and it's not really gonna change things. But I just did a talk with an organization called Disrupt HR. Um, they had a session in Houston about a month or two ago, and I did a talk on this there. People can look up Disrupt HR Houston. I'm not sure if that session's gotten posted on their website yet, but it will be soon. Um, and anyways, what I talk about there, like first of all, you ask about like the leader, the the tie-in with leadership. This all starts with the CEO, the leader of the company. They've got to value it, put priority on it. If they don't, other people are gonna follow their lead. So it's got to be coming from the top down to some extent. There's got to be buy-in at that CEO level, even if others are helping drive the project. Um, but what I would say about that more specifically, too, and where it really drives the difference, is when you go from paying what I call lip service to culture, which is the posters on the wall, a pizza party here or there, um, to really getting intentional and practical about how you're integrating culture into the day-to-day operations of the organization. And that's what I try and help leaders do and the consulting I do using a company called CultureWise. When I work corporate, we were clients of theirs. So sort of the whole like hair commercial, I'm not only the CEO, I'm a client or whatever. Uh, I was a client of this company before I started helping others implement their programs. And I was a big fan of the way it helped us shape the culture there for that tech department in uh the Bay Area. And so when I started my consultancy, they were the first company I got licensed with to help other companies implement their program. And it's really practical about how are you integrating not just values, but from the values to what are the day-to-day behaviors that you want to reinforce and how are you tying those into day-to-day and week-to-week rituals where it really shapes the employee experience. And when you do that and you do it well, it truly does change the employee experience, drive the organizational experience for the employees. And that's where you get the great results. One of the companies that I referenced in that to your question about uh small to mid-sized businesses, one of the companies, there were 15 employees, implemented this program, really helped them differentiate themselves from other competitors in their market and helped them attract and retain not only employees, but also customers, because their customers saw, hey, these people operate differently, they go about work different, and we love it, and we want to work with them. Another company that was a little bigger, about 150 employees, they use this program and they 3x their revenue, 10x their profitability, and became the best place to work in their city two years in a row. So definitely can make big changes, not just touchy-feely things, but you've got to be intentional with it, not just the lip service or it backfires. In that talk, I talked about Enron, and two of their values were integrity and communication. Uh, and that didn't go so well for them.

SPEAKER_00: 17:02

This show is sponsored by Seasoned Advice HR Services, where I help clinical healthcare businesses to make more money and save more money by hiring better, retaining better, and reducing your HR risk. If you would like an HR assessment or ongoing HR support, please reach out to me at seasoned-advice.com. You know, I'm so glad because you talked about a business that experienced revenue change, significant revenue change, significant profitability change. And that's the other side of culture and leadership, because yeah, some people get it that yeah, we can reduce our turnover, but there's a huge, you know, top of the equation um factor there that's I think even more enticing because if you can increase your revenue or your sales, your your profitability just one or two percent, you know, depending on where you're at, that's gonna way out outstrip and out out outweigh the the cost of turnover benefit, which is still gonna be there. But man, you're getting both of those benefits. Like uh the the stats are clear. Better culture, better management will get you more of that discretionary effort. At least that's how I see things. Is that is that what you're seeing?

SPEAKER_01: 18:30

Yeah, definitely. To your point, there's the bottom line part, the profitability, then the top line revenue. Main place I go with that is talking about employee engagement. Um, and a couple examples on that. Granted, this is leaving the small business world, but it applies there as well. But Netflix, uh, they've grown almost 10x over the last 10 years, their stock valuation. Um, and they earn almost$3 million in revenue per employee. So that's one of the metrics that I like to use. Uh yeah, exactly, right? Uh, you know, for a small business, if they think, okay, what's our revenue? One and a half million. We've got 15 employees, that's 100,000 in revenue per employee. That's one of the metrics that I like to look at. Like, how can we grow that? How can we grow revenue productivity by growing on a per desk average uh what productivity looks like? So, you know, if they're at 100,000 per employee, you know, if you can increase that 20%, you're going from 1.5 million to 1.7. Um, and so yeah, you can do that by improving collaboration, improving innovation, improving the way uh work gets done, the time to delivery, sort of like that one example I was talking about where the cut the turnover slowed the delivery of the project, um, but also like dysfunction and meetings, all these, all these different things cut into productivity. Um, and it really ends up hitting, as you pointed out, the revenue. Um, another example, again, this is also a large company, but it really shows the difference. If you look at Microsoft's stock price from, I think it's 1999 to 2014, a 15-year period, there was 4% growth over 15 years. Not very good. Uh, then from 2014 to 2024, a shorter time period of 10 years versus 15, they grew by a thousand percent. And if you look at what happened in between there, it switched CEOs from uh, I think it was Balmer to Satya Nadella. And Satya Nadella uh has, in my opinion, done a great job of improving culture at Microsoft. There was a cartoon that came out before his time about organizational culture and sort of uh inner team dynamics at Microsoft, and it was an org chart cartoon uh with pistol people holding pistols uh pointing at one another from one department to the next. And it was just this competitive culture of you know, you didn't want to, you didn't have trust with these other departments and stuff like that. And then somebody has since, since Nadella took over, um redrawn that and said that's no longer the case at Microsoft and it's handshakes across all of those teams. And that shift in culture, I think, is a obviously there's many other factors, changes in technology, all that stuff, but that culture change, I think, is a significant part, and you can see drastic transformation from 4% growth to a thousand percent growth by improving organizations organizational culture.

SPEAKER_00: 21:52

You know, obviously the results are great. A lot of folks right now are thinking, um, maybe with a fear based mindset or Or they have revenue constraints, right? And so they're looking for low-cost tips. They're looking for something that they can do. It doesn't cost you know a ton of money. What is something that, you know, if I'm a business owner, you know, maybe I've got a million dollars in revenue, maybe I've got a couple million. Um, and but I want to take advantage of this, right? And they say some of the best things in life are free, right? Um, what what is something that I could do now or start thinking about um to help up level the leadership or the culture in my small to medium business?

SPEAKER_01: 22:36

Yeah, one thing that I would say that's free uh is well, depend it can start free. That there are ways that you can get more efficient with it and stuff with some systems and whatnot that cost money and whatnot, but is really just to start trying to improve listening within the organization and communication. Uh, so getting feedback. Like I said, everything about culture starts with the top-down. So if you're the owner of a million-dollar business, how well are you demonstrating and exemplifying listening for your employees? And a great example I like to use with this. Uh, did you watch the show Ted Lasso?

SPEAKER_00: 23:13

Um, I'm not I'm familiar with it, but I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:16

Okay. I I love it. My wife and I, we I visited my sister, and at the time we didn't have Apple TV or whatever, and that was where I first saw one or two episodes, and I loved it so much. I got Apple TV just to watch that show. Uh, and I'm hearing that there's supposed to be a new season coming, so I'm hoping for that. But, anyways, so concept being guy starts coaching a soccer team in Europe. Um, and he gets there, and they're sort of like a mediocre team that's struggling, not really doing well. Um, and one of the first things he does is open up for feedback from the team, and he gives them sort of a suggestions box, uh, you know, where they can drop in suggestions. So that's the low-tech way of doing it. Employee surveys, there are various ways you can scale this up. But at the lowest level, just put out in a suggestion box and let employees give some feedback. And so this one guy says the water pressure and the sour showers suck at this uh soccer team, you know, and he's just this this employee, I mean, this team member, he's a grumbler. He's just doing it to like stick it to the man and like say, I don't even really, you know, care about what you're doing, and just complaining is all he's doing. But the coach, the snook coach, he takes that and he sees that the water shower gets the the pressure gets fixed, and it shows the guy going to take a shower and it's blasting him and his eyes change. And over time, this employee goes from grumbler complainer to leader of the team. And it starts with Ted Lasso listening, taking feedback, and taking action. And that taking action part is a big piece too. If you're gonna put out the suggestion box, you got to let your employee see that you're gonna follow up on the suggestions that you get. You got to be willing to take some feedback, even if it may be hard, even if part of their complaint may be, you know, such and such isn't great. My communication with you, Mr. or Mrs. Leader or whatever. Um, you know, taking that feedback, doing something with it, showing your employees that you care about them, you care about their experience. Uh, that's sort of at the base, and we'll start to build trust and a lot of other things that can then then layer up. But I would say start with a suggestion box if they don't have one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:40

Yeah, you know, listening is so so important. And, you know, you talked a little bit about trust, and what I've seen is trust starts with listening. You know, you've got to spend time with people, you've got to show them that what they have to say matters, and and it takes time. You know, kind of your anecdote from the TV show illustrates a reality, which is you can't just put up a suggestion box today and have trust tomorrow. You have to act on it, continue, maybe communicate about the fact that you acted on it and then do like internal PR. Hey, we've got this box, and here's something successful, or here's something that came through. We decided not to do that. Here's why, right? So have that transparency to create uh more trust. So I I think what you said is is totally spot on right there.

SPEAKER_01: 26:41

You mentioned transparency, and I'd add to that vulnerability. So I mentioned earlier Patrick Lencioni. Uh he's I'm a big fan of a lot of his work. He's got a best-selling book called The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. It's at this point, I don't even know, I think 20 plus years old, but still very relevant. Uh, if people aren't familiar with it, I'd say if you're a leader, go check it out. Five dysfunctions of a team. And the first one is about trust. And key to trust, he says, is, as you say, transparency and vulnerability. And so when leaders can lead with that, um, you know, we talked some about, I mentioned the Ninja Warrior stuff. Uh, I did another talk uh for Disrupt HR Austin last year about building trust, psychological safety, and resilience in the workplace from the perspective of a rock climbing ninja warrior. I've been rock climbing for 25 years. I climbed this tower right back here. Utah spent the night on walls in Yosemite and uh things like that. Um, in in those situations, you want to have trust, you want to have good communication with the people you're working with, and the same is true in business. Um, and that starts with some transparency, some vulnerability, and building psychological safety.

SPEAKER_00: 28:00

Um, yeah, I can definitely see how the uh the climbing aspect would would require that trust for sure. Um, and it could be a great way to kind of cultivate um teamwork as a kind of a metaphor there. Um you know, I'm curious about, you know, sometimes there's a in an organization, there's a leader that is struggling to kind of resonate with their team. And how do you approach that? Because a lot of um times people may say, uh, you know what, this person isn't working out, you know what, we need to get this manager out of here, they're not an effective leader. Can people change their stripes? Um, and what does it take to kind of help them become a successful leader? You know, you talked about in the TV show, kind of the team member whose attitude changed. Um, and I have seen leaders change and improve, but if if there's someone listening who has a leader in their organization and they're questioning whether that person is really the right leader, what do you think? Is there is there hope? And what approach do you think you know would be useful to start out with?

SPEAKER_01: 29:17

Yeah, sure. So I do think there's hope. Um, it all depends on the person and their willingness and their alignment with the organization's direction and values. So for the approach, one of the things with the culture program that I mentioned is when you have organizational values, which a lot of companies have, unfortunately, most of them are paying lip service. They don't really have systems and rituals in place to drive behaviors for those, like this program helps implement. But um, what I would say is if the organization has value, if they don't have values, that's got to be a start. Like you need to define mission, vision, values, and get those clear for the organization. Once you have those, and assuming you already have them, you can I would say a frank and direct conversation with the employee, these are our organizational values. This is where you're not aligning to that from my perspective. This is the behaviors that exemplify that, getting really concrete with it with examples. This is where there's misalignment. These values aren't just things we talk about, they're things we hire by and fire by. If you're going to be successful in this organization, we need to see alignment here. Are these values important to you? Do you see yourself like, is this something you're willing to commit to, to change towards and to move in this direction and to adapt the behaviors to get that alignment? And if they see that and they're willing to make those changes, um and that before you can have this conversation, there's got to be certain levels of trust too, I think. Between the, you know, the Ted going back to the Ted Lasso, before he gets into some of that, he's got to earn trust by fixing the water pressure, by yeah, taking a lot of crap from some of the team members and all that stuff and being vulnerable and all this different stuff. But once he builds that relationship, then he's able to work with this employee, this team member in that case. The the and to your point, he does change and he becomes a leader on the team, becomes an assistant coach as he retires, and he ends up becoming a key transition point to helping other leaders step up and elevate themselves. And I would say that can happen within organizations as well. But it takes that alignment to values and the commitment from the employee, um, the recognition of the issues. But the leader above them has to have clarity around what those values are and the behaviors that drive them, uh, so that they can say, this is what our expectations are and the alignment that we're looking for, um, and then just working with them towards that. And I would say if the employee is on board with that, then great. That's your starting point and you move forward. And if not, then it makes it clear. And like I say, companies have got to be willing to hire and fire by the values, not just pay lip service. And so if the employee isn't willing to, you know, operate according to those values, then they're sort of self-selecting. And the the manager can say, look, this is this is the direction we're going. You're not gonna be successful here. So, you know, how can we support you and moving on to a place where you can be successful?

SPEAKER_00: 32:43

Awesome. You know, I love I loved what you said about starting with values, you've got to know what those are, and they have to be genuine. Um, and I'm I'm like you, I'm a huge fan of Patrick Lancioni, and he's he's had some great communication about how to cultivate and develop those values in an authentic way. And I I would encourage folks to check out his his writings on that stuff. Um, and feedback is so powerful, you know, people can't change if they don't know. And you can if you point to authentic values, wow, that's a powerful way to lead someone to a new behavior set.

SPEAKER_01: 33:19

Um I would also say, sorry to uh just want the I mentioned the vulnerability of Ted Lasso, and and when in having this conversation, it's important that the leader be clear like it's a two-way conversation. Um, you know, how can I are there ways that I'm not supporting you, Mr. or Mrs. Leader, to help you operate in these ways? Um, you know, are there ways that I'm not being consistent with these? Just bringing into that conversation some vulnerability so that it's not just an attack of their behaviors, but how can I support you in adapting behavior towards these behaviors? And how can we collectively ensure um that we're reinforcing these values and behaviors in the organization together? That's one thing I love about the Ninja Warrior stuff. It's not as much over the years, it's become more and more competitive in the traditional sport sense of one against one another. But in the early days of Ninja Warrior, back when it started with the show in Japan and all that, it was always about the competitors against the course. And there's always been a strong sense of camaraderie amongst the competitors. Like we're here to support one another, to overcome the obstacles of this course. And to the extent that leaders can say, we're in this together, how can we work together to attack this problem and overcome this obstacle within the company together? Um, I think that's a helpful approach to it as well, to say, like, these are the problems within the organization that we need to address. How can you and I work together and make sure that our behaviors are going to help the organization overcome these obstacles?

SPEAKER_00: 35:15

Uh I love that. Um that's a great, that's a great place to to conclude our conversation. I think, Chad, like working together towards common goals. We've touched on so many awesome things from values to listening to um, you know, low-cost ways of of becoming better leaders and developing better culture. Um, how can people get in touch with you, Chad, if they want to work with you or learn more about how you can help?

SPEAKER_01: 35:45

Yeah, sure. So LinkedIn is a great way to reach out to me, LinkedIn Chad Miller, my company's Life Abundant Leadership. You can go to my website, lifeabundantleadership.com, um, and that will show you stuff about my website's not great, but you know, it I made it and it's still not great. I haven't put enough time, but people can get some ideas there. Uh, but reaching out to me on LinkedIn, also my email, Chad at Lifeabundant Leadership.com. Always happy to have conversations with people and help them. Like I say, my motivation is always to help and serve people, help them create better workplaces, help them experience. And it goes both ways. It's not just about like as the leader improves the work experience for the employees, it's gonna reflect back and their work experience gets better as well, you know, like for them as a leader. And that's my motivation. Want to help them have better work experiences, but also more productive. Like, let's drive the revenue and profitability. It's not just the experience, let's let's get some great business results. So yeah, I'd love to chat with folks.

SPEAKER_00: 36:51

Well, that brings this episode of Healthcare Leadership Live to a conclusion. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show on your podcast app and share it with someone who would value the content. I promise to bring you more guests and content to help make you a better healthcare clinical leader. I also invite you to subscribe to my HR newsletter for healthcare leaders. You can find information about that at seasoned advice.com. Now go out there and lead with confidence.