What I Didn't Know: Conversations on Resilience, Healing, and Becoming

EP02: No One is Coming to Save You with Rashad Sutton

• Netanya Allyson • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this conversation, Rashad and I explore different complexities that come with navigating personal relationships alongside addiction. We both share raw moments of self-confrontation—from breaking a deeply ingrained trauma of abandonment to overcoming the limiting internal beliefs that tie meaningful work to burnout and financial struggle. 

This episode is a powerful blueprint for embracing positive disruption, where Rashad unveils his vision for a business that encompasses purpose for him and I challenge his lifelong fear of commitment, tracing it back to a childhood wound. 

Join us to learn why it’s important to believe in the magic of beginning things, because "No one is coming to save you, but once you start, the cavalry comes." This conversation reminds us that the life we want requires courage, consistency, and a ticket—even if you're terrified to book it.

SPEAKER_03:

There are moments in life that split us open. Quiet unraveling, sudden breaks, or truth we didn't know we need it until we had no choice. This podcast is about those moments. It's about the turning points that change us, the things I wish someone had told me that I only understand and looking back. Come on in, you belong here, and we're gonna talk about all of it. I'm your host, Natanya, and this is what I didn't know. Before we begin, a quick note. This podcast explores themes such as mental health, addiction, trauma, and recovery. While the stories here are honest and heartfelt, they're not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or medical treatment. Please listen with care and pause anytime you need to. Take whatever resonates for you and leave the rest. All right, for today's episode, you're about to meet Rashad Sutton. One of the best things about Rashad, by far, is that where a lot of people can see something they do externally, a pattern of behavior, acknowledge it, change it, and like do something different externally. Rashad is a ninja at doing this internally. And so he's great at calling himself out and oh, I see what I did there, sort of changing inner thought patterns and moving forward in a different direction because of what he changes internally. It's pretty incredible. So without further ado, here we go. All right, Rashad, I am so happy that you're here. What you don't know, I don't think you know this story, is that you and I were on the phone last year and I was in Steamboat and I was, I called you. So Rashad and I know each other because we're both on the same board of directors for Colorado Artists of Artists in Recovery, a nonprofit that's out of Denver, and we're both on the board. And so I had called you to talk about something board related. And in the phone conversation, we talked for 45 minutes while I paced outside in the garage on some tangent rabbit hole topic that had nothing to do with why I called you before we actually talked. And after that conversation, I knew that when I started a podcast, that you would be the first person I called.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so sweet. I didn't know that. You're right. I didn't know that. It's really sweet and it's really cool. I'm stoked for that.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, I just wanted to tell you that. And I'm so happy you're here. Thank you for your time. But I want to talk about a little bit, and some of this I might know, some of it I probably don't, is you have gone through a lot of different things in your experience, different rabbit holes, family recovery, all the things, right? And I want to talk about the places and the and the points across your life. You pick one of which you broke, right? That kind of like record scratch moment where you've been beboping along and like it doesn't work anymore. And you kind of have to look at that thing.

SPEAKER_00:

I had one in active addiction, right? And it's it's gonna sound uh even a little arrogant. And please don't take it that way. I've um whatever this gift is, I've always had it, right? I've always I've always been, I don't know, I guess people would say charismatic. I don't really like that. It's a weird term, but that thing, whatever, whatever that is, I've always had it, and I've always been able to kind of you know get through the line with no ID with like a little joke in a wing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's always a good skill I've had. And um, you know, after several years in my active addiction, I remember trying to do that somewhere, and the person just looked at me. And I was like, this is where you do the thing. And they were just looking at me, and it was it was like I don't I don't have that in this state. I don't have that here. And that broke me. Um, that put me in you know, in a hole that it was almost impossible to get out of that I would say um that I would say I'm only recently recovering from.

SPEAKER_02:

Really?

SPEAKER_00:

Um yeah, I would say recently. Um well because it it makes you question a it made me question a lot, right? Um it made me question, even on the recovery side, right? Am I leaning on that too much? Is that manipulative? Um I've lived without it. I don't want to rely on that because it's like having money, I would imagine, and then you don't. You know, it's like, uh, I don't want to rely on that and then it'd be gone. That really broke me. It really changed me and changed who I am fundamentally. I don't I'm trying to think of in recovery. Mm-hmm. Have I had any moments like that and I haven't.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, how about even if it's not like a break, like when you changed, right? Yeah. When you were, what was your at point of in recoveries? Usually there's a there's a thing, there's a catalyst, there's a there's a moment of which you have been like functioning at this certain level or doing a thing, and suddenly something happens, or someone says something to you, or you have an experience, and that can be an external experience or an internal experience. But usually like there's a a switch that flips and you you have to stop.

SPEAKER_00:

I can tell you something. I can tell you one. I through all this, I I had kind of lost touch with my daughter. My daughter is now 22 years old, just turned 22 in June, and um we had you know lost touch. Um through active addiction, I was really afraid and um I didn't want her to see me like that. Um just didn't really talk to her much. And um, I was so proud of myself and like getting sober and um I had this delusion that I was just gonna reach out to her and things were gonna be fine. That that we were gonna just pick back up, you know? And um and that like kind of like she wasn't a human, but like this this doll that I could just switch back on, you know, uh-huh. Put batteries in and be like, alright, well, here we go. Like it never ended. And um, I remember getting slapped in the face with that. That like that that wasn't the case, and and I'll tell you where is I was like nine months sober, I was so proud of myself, and uh she invited me to her high school graduation. So I'd fly to California and um out there with my sister and my mom, and in that very early recovery mindset of everything is fine. I did the thing, and uh, I remember reading her like bio in their in their graduation like program, and you could see this she was trying to pull from things from her mom and from me, and the only thing she knew about me was that I managed apartments, and that was a knife to the gut. Um that was a knife to the gut because even in her trying to be nice and include me, the truth rang out that all she knew about me is what I used to do for work.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um and to your point, right? Like what that made me have to do is go, okay, well, it's more than just okay, I'm around now, let's be better. I have to build a relationship with her and like um not only get to know her, but like make myself available to get to know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um there's a double there's a dual both sides of that, right? Like you, and I like that you you're walking into this, like patting yourself on the back.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like I did good. Uh-huh. And not thinking about what this has been like for her.

SPEAKER_00:

What it yeah, man. Um that it must have been awful. And it's probably still awful. You know, that like that, yeah, she just doesn't know me and by extension doesn't know a piece of herself. And um, I think it's what's what's dude, and this is the craziest thing about relationships is it'd be easier if she just hated me.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? It'd be easier.

SPEAKER_02:

And then you don't have to deal with it. You don't have to, yeah, you don't have to face that at all. She just hate you.

SPEAKER_00:

It'd be easier if she was like, I just don't want anything to do with you. Then I could be like, oh, well, I'm then I get to be still a good guy, right? I get to write off a new set.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and be like, I tried, man, I did everything in my power. You know, she wasn't having it, and that wasn't the case, you know. Um, that wasn't the case. And so that that really changed how I approached relationships. You know, I I like to, when I think about it or I talk about it, I talk about it as just in terms of her, but in truth, man, it absolutely changed how I see relationships and how I um how I present myself to people, right? Um with like consistency and vulnerability, I think, and those are the like key words I think that helped in that relationship, right? It's not like perfection. I think that like right. I don't have to be perfect, but what I do have to do is be consistent. If you know what you're what to expect from me, then even my bad stuff is not awful. Because you're you're aware of it. I think a lot of times surprise is worse than um even disappointment, right? It's like, oh yeah, I wasn't expecting that from you. That's weird. Why did you react that way? So yeah, consistency and vulnerability were my lessons from that.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and I want to go back to what you said about it would be easier if, right? Because I'm gonna tell a story, I don't think I've ever told this out loud, maybe to one person, because at the time of which I was my marriage was falling apart, and my ex-husband was in the hospital nine different times for alcohol-related issues. And I was also fully an alcoholic, and so that's not a good combo because I'm enabling that, also have my own problem, right? And sort of blaming him, like this is his problem because he keeps ending up in the hospital, but I don't, like, I'm not in the hospital, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03:

But there came a point in time of which I realized that my brain, and this had become so normal functionally for me, and I was so numb, that my brain would think, go down the rabbit hole of maybe he maybe he would just die. And that's really hard to say out loud and admit because it sounds like I'm an awful person. No, I think it's a good idea. But the truth, right? But the truth is it seemed easier because it was already a shit show. It was already a mess. And my brain was sort of looking for freedom. It was looking for a release. How do I get out of this? And at the time, I was not a person who could face things or walk the hard road, or I didn't think I could be. And so I just remember thinking that more than once and thinking like how awful I was that I thought that. And it was not malicious.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It was just because because then if he was no longer here, I had an out to go start what I really wanted and what was the root of that sort of thought process, which was I wanted a different life.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right? And so thinking that if he if he wasn't here anymore, everybody would understand. I would be socially acceptable, everyone would understand that we grieve and move on. And I I had a free canvas to go build a new life on. Um, but the the the thing behind it being like, that's the easy route because then I don't have to face it. And then I don't have to take any responsibility or do any work, and everybody understands, and I'm still the good girl.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, man. You don't have to face right. It's like it's like it's you don't have to take any accountability.

SPEAKER_03:

Nope.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and um, dude, accountability sucks.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I've been watching like crash TV at the coworkers, and I watch these people attempt to apologize and take accountability, and it's so hard to say, hey, regardless of your actions, my actions were unacceptable, and I I apologize for that. I'm truly sorry, and um, I'm gonna do my best to be a better person. The things I did, I I don't like about I don't like that I did those things, and I hate that I did them to you, and it seems so hard for people to say that, like without justification and without like you know, but if you hadn't have been there, right? And I I think that's the part that like you know, now I have to face this relationship in which I could fail. Yeah, in which there's a chance that she gets to know me and doesn't like me. Um and if that happens in the beginning, whatever I tried, it's over. But like you said, if I now have to now I have now I have to try. You know what I mean? But in your case, it's so much even trickier, right? Because especially if the if at the time you're drinking, you don't even know what change or new life looks like.

SPEAKER_03:

No, not at all. Like couldn't fathom. And it's like the amount of people that affected, right? Like it it's just easier if I go the route that my brain was going, and I understand why my brain did that. But what I actually did, what in hindsight was so magical because it was like going through the trenches, but it's where you it's like you you change and grow from all the shit that's hard, which we all know is valuable now, but at the moment it was not something I wanted to look at. I had to tell the truth to myself first, all of the things that and all of the things about the marriage, of everything about the life that I had that I was I had actively participated in every decision that got me there. And I was miserable. And so I had to admit all of that to me. Then I had to confront him and have a conversation, and he was not on the same page. That was not a mutual split.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. And so I have to face watching someone go through the stages of grief at me, right? And then once that happened, also let me tell you, because nobody told me this, the stages of grief do not go in order. No, there's no specific timeline, it's not one, two, three, four, five, and they can go back and forth, and you can go back to them several times. Like it's all over the place. And when someone's doing that at you, it's messy, right? But so then I had to go, once that happened, then I had to tell people, right? And because I had created a facade of what my life looked like, what the day I told my mom, my sister, and my brother-in-law, they were all in the kitchen at my sister's house, and I and I said, like, I need to talk to you. Um, I think I'm gonna get a divorce. They looked at me like I had two heads because they didn't know, because I had lied and I had painted this like we're all good. And the the he and the me and the us that we showed people wasn't perfect, but it was not the truth at all. And so they didn't know. And then his family, right? Which is there's all these different impacts, like people that had left me and taken me in as their family. I had to hurt them. And that is something that is so hard.

SPEAKER_00:

I that brings me to this place where I there's something I did want to talk about. Um I've been it should have talked about, and it's this alchemical thing that happens when you do stuff. I don't know what more eloquent way to put that. But like Right? So, like when you you're having these thoughts, and you're like, okay, you're basically sounds like having a thought around how do I change my life from this? And so then you purpose in your heart to do a thing, right? You're like, I'm going to split from this marriage. I feel like there's and not talking about it, right? Not talking about it. Like there's some magic that happens when you do a thing. You move into you moving. There's some magic that happened in there. Um for for me for me recently, I was feeling I was feeling uh dude, that's another reason why it hit. I was feeling so like disconnected um people. Sad. Probably a better way to put it. Um and um and I wasn't doing anything about it, I was just pouting about it. Um, I was just pouting about it, and I was like going to work and doing my thing and you know, trying to work out and coming home. And it was just sad. And um I was like, hey, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the friend that I want.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? I'm gonna be the friend that I want. Um and so I started calling people, you know, and and not with no intention. I just started calling people.

SPEAKER_03:

I started Was that when you texted me?

SPEAKER_00:

Probably.

SPEAKER_03:

And it was a random day, and I was not that we don't check in every once in a while, but it was like really random. And I was it was really sweet what you said, and I was like, to what do I owe this beautiful message on like a Tuesday morning?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right. And I think um so much, and not that we do things to give things, but I mean, obviously, this is a result of that. There's so many things that have happened in my life as a result, and what I found, what I found is um man, other people are lonely too. You know, do you know what I mean? Um, but they're not.

SPEAKER_02:

I felt that.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what I mean? But they're not.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

There's that thing that somebody has to break it, but right, we I would much rather keep up, and that's what I think hooked me, right? I would much rather keep this facade of you thinking. Yeah, oh, I have all this stuff to do, and I'm so busy, and everyone's talking to me, and I'm so important, then break down and tell you, hey, I'm lonely, can we go get a bowl of soup? Like, really, do you know what I mean? Like, no, because you'll know the truth about me. And so there's something like it's like an alchemy that happens when you when you do stuff, when you put life in motion, right? When you're like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna push forward on this. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna be this person. Um God, it's so I'm right on the cusp of being able to explain that. It's like, um the the term I've been using for this feeling is help's not coming.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, we talked about this.

SPEAKER_00:

We talked about this.

SPEAKER_03:

Like no one's coming to save you.

SPEAKER_00:

No one's coming to save you.

SPEAKER_03:

No one's coming.

SPEAKER_00:

It's fine, no one's coming. But the the alchemy, and that's probably the best way to put it, the alchemy of it is once you start, the cavalry comes. Yes, magic. That's the yes, that's the magic.

SPEAKER_03:

That was a great way to say that, right?

SPEAKER_00:

You no one's coming, and no one's coming, but once you start, then dude, then you start to receive this abundance of like help and support and things that you just were not expecting, you know. Um and I think, you know, going all the way back to the very first question you asked me, that probably has been a breakdown for me. Maybe that's one, right? Where I was in this funk and I was like, okay, well, I gotta do something. I gotta, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and that thing, that like stagnation doesn't create energy. It doesn't create, I mean, I don't like the term manifestation, but creating things to occur in your life, creating opportunities and connections and movement. Like movement, it's like what is the scientific like inertia is a body in motion, stays in motion.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's like one of the means laws.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, right, right, right. So you have to start moving. And sometimes that means a choice or a decision. And often I'll talk to people and it's like they're waiting for something, right? And they're in a in a funk or in a place or sort of, I don't know about this, or and it's it might be that they're waiting for the right the right thing, the right choice, the right time. They're waiting for someone else to bring the thing up to have the conversation that they want to talk about, um, or just to make the the decision to go out to do the end the thing, to start the thing, whatever, whatever it is. And it's in that waiting, you get stagnant and you do get things like lonely, and then you you start to tell stories, right? Which aren't true usually, but that I'm alone and nobody cares. And and I love that it's such a you know, middle school-esque story, but that it's just still true, and that's not bad. It's just like I I am lonely, right? And I've we've talked about that a little bit with I chose again for the second time in my life to move to a city or a state where I knew no one. I did not know a single person in Tennessee that I was aware of when I got here, right? And so there's a lot that comes along with that. But part of that, once the busyness settled, right, is that I had to also acknowledge that I was lonely and that some of the things and places where people would go meet people, I don't want to do to my gym anymore. So what do I do with that? And I did have a little bit of the pity party.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. And the like, meh, you know. Oh, it's funny. I love it. I love it in that place. I love it.

SPEAKER_03:

But then at the point of which it's okay, well, nobody's coming to save you. And I don't mean that. I so don't mean that in a in a mean way, in a attacking way, in a not caring way, or that there's not people that want to help you and support you. Because I absolutely think that there are, right? But you just can't, you can't like you're giving your power away by waiting for someone else to be the CEO of your life.

SPEAKER_00:

Dude, I'll say it, I'll say it another way. Wear those wear those jeans. You know? Yes. You know what I mean? Do you know those jeans that you're saving for like the perfect party or whatever? Yes. You're like, I don't want to if I wash them too many times, they're gonna get a weird color. Wear them, dude. You should wear those. You know, wear those jeans, wear those shoes, do the thing. Like, you know, um, it it does sound negative, but it's so incredibly positive in like my war cry right now that you know help is not coming. Um and and yeah, that just because I do that with everything. I do it with everything, I do it with everything except for money, right? I wish I could do it with money. I wish I could just be like, oh, don't spin that. But I spend you know money. Um but yeah, do the thing, you know, do the thing and and like yeah, I don't know. It's there's something in there that I haven't I'm not 100% and I haven't got it figured out yet, but that I'm working on in this place in my life where I am um trying to just continually move forward, you know, and instead of that's another thing, right? You see, you mentioned this that um we kind of have all these things in our head or all these reasons why not. And that's why these kind of conversations are important because there's nobody to argue against your doubt if you keep it in your head. Right? And so in your head, you're like, oh well, that's a crazy idea. I'll never do that. And you know, your other parts are like, Yeah, whatever, yeah, that sounds crazy. But when you put that thing out into the world by either doing or by at least acknowledging having a circle like this and conversations, then you have this other part that's not in you that can say, Oh, no, that sounds great. You should yeah, absolutely do that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you're like, I didn't think that was possible for me. And it's like, yeah, man, yeah, you can do that. Um, so those things are yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And even this podcast is a great example. I've been talking about it for a year or two. It was kind of on the back burner, and then I had I did all these other things, so it had to wait. And then suddenly it got quiet, and I was like, oh, and then this, and then I changed jobs, and then I moved to Nashville, and then I was starting a new job there, and like it wasn't the right time. And then suddenly I was like, I think it's time. Oh shit, right? And then, but then I have to override me because I get in the way. And so stuff like for me, perfectionism is a thing that I have to work on of where there's 600 things that would stop me from doing this if I let that get in the way. Everything from what I'm wearing to what's behind me, to which audio I use, to what program we're recording this on, to the schedule and the timeline and the topics and the right first question. And what do you, you know, and then how do you promote it? You could get so lost. And I did for a minute. And then I just sort of had that conversation of like, if I have to just start, you just have to begin, otherwise, I'll never do it. And I'll always be waiting for the best version of this. And so something I did that helped me the other day, I was watching a podcast and it was like episode 500 of this particular podcast. Yeah, yeah. And I, for my own, they have a video version, it was on YouTube. And so I went back in the archives to episode one because it was all it's on a stage, right? It's staged, it's beautifully, you know, produced, and clearly this is a professional setting. And so I went back to episode one, episode two, and it's the same guy. He's just on headphones in his office, asking it like they're just it's just like this. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna, we're just gonna do this. I'm in my apartment. I'm not gonna hang things on the wall behind me. This is the way the light comes in, and that's it. Because otherwise I won't begin. And I can I can find a million reasons not to begin.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then I won't do anything.

SPEAKER_00:

And you're stuck, and then you're sad, and then you're um Yeah, you're stuck. You're stuck. So yeah, man, there's magic in like doing the thing. There's so much magic in doing the thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Um What are you in this moment like most most anticipating, most nervous about, most not sure what you're gonna start, most overthinking in any area of your life.

SPEAKER_00:

Um most like apprehensive, you know, I think um you're gonna hate this so much. You're gonna you're gonna when I tell you, you're gonna hate this so much. The thing that I can't seem to get myself to do is get out of the country. I've never been, I'd like to take either a trip, you know, I think with people is fine, but I'd like even just a solo trip, just some even just as easy as Mexico. I went through all the work, have given myself a passport, um, I've never stamped it.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh dang. Like ever.

SPEAKER_00:

Ever. I've never left never left the country. And now, and like that's why I said I know you're gonna hate this, because now I'm like, I have the job, I have the passport, I have the time. Mm-hmm. And I just just literally have not done it.

SPEAKER_03:

What is your what is your hiccup? What is the thing that like, if you're honest about what happens in your head, what what hits pause and then diverts you somewhere else?

SPEAKER_00:

I think up until up until maybe like this month, literally, because it takes time to build, it was finances.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I didn't have, you know, a grand or a couple grand that I could just burn, and I don't have any credit cards. As wild as that may sound, I don't have any credit cards. So I didn't have a reserve from that I could pull from to be able to do it. It's a lot, it's a lot different to go to Wyoming, you know, you get like Yes. You know what I mean? It's just cheaper, you know, and I could stock away, you know,$500 or whatever for like a trip like that or even to California. Um, but I think it's been finances, and so I'd like to um I have it on my goals for this year to have something booked. No, by the it by the last day of this year. Um I'm gonna book something. Um, but that's been the thing that I that for me I feel like is such a hurdle for me. I've never been out of the country and I'd like to. Um I don't have any reason not to. I don't have any reason not to. I think other than that, um, and I think dude, and in like it's the beauty in questions like this. Other than that, things are going pretty well in terms of and maybe that's a thing too. I'll give you another one. I'm toying with this idea of starting a business.

SPEAKER_03:

Ooh, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I That's almost all I have right now.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm so interested in what I don't even care what it is. Rashad is starting a business. Take my money. What are you what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know, but I think it I think uh and look at me like applying stuff that I learned or that I had a conversation about. So, you know, I mean things are going well and are easy and are fine. I don't feel complacent yet. I don't feel like the house is on fire and I'm like, this is cool, I'll just stay here. I do feel content, right? Um and so when I was talking to, you know, people that I that I admire about that feeling, they were like, well, now's the time to challenge yourself. If everything is fine, it's time for you to create some disruption. It's time for you to create a thing. And they were like, is it gonna be scary? It is, and it's probably gonna suck for a little bit. But that thing that you're looking for, if you don't do it positively, you'll do it negatively.

SPEAKER_03:

I can get that.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because the negative version, especially in recovery world, is creating chaos.

SPEAKER_00:

It's creating chaos.

SPEAKER_03:

You create chaos because it's a distraction, it feels like drama, it's interesting, it's whatever, and it's never in an optimistic light, right?

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, but I like that the sort of whoever said whatever quote about if your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And I I I will say I think I do a pretty good job of keeping myself close enough to that that I'll get comfortable.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then be like, you're not, you know, you're not kind of going for it. And you don't want to just live on the edge all the time either, because I think there's a lot of to be said for integration and taking breaks and you know, balancing out. But I think you know when that's true. And it's also even the word you use, I will say this because it it's always not a red flag, but a note, a notated word when people say they're fine.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, like I'm fine, I'm good. It's like a word people hide behind. And it's not good or bad. It's just sort of like, what are you not saying?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But and I say that about whatever business you create. And one of the reasons I like talking to you much is because you do such a good job of walking through the things that we all talk about, right? And it and whenever we end up in conversation, it's always like, yes, these are wins. I'm doing this over here. I'm still, I'm still learning on this other curve over here, right? And you do that in such a great job. That authenticity, I think, just I think people resonate with it. It's one of the reasons, like I said, I like to talk to you, is because you'll just be like, Yeah, what's this thing about over here? And let's talk about it. And I'm so interested in the same type of thing. So you at the helm of whatever you create, right? Virtual, brick and mortar, whatever, whatever it has to do with. I'm so curious to see what you do. And I think there's a lot of people that would probably get behind that for similar reasons, whatever it was, just to be like, You got this. Yeah, I just have any thoughts about not even the top like what aspect of the world it's in or what you just don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the you know, my personal purpose and like goal in life is to help young men struggling with recovery, right? Either in it or in the middle of it or thinking about it. And so I don't know. I'd like for whatever I build to be purpose-driven, right? And if it can um if it can benefit financially, then that's great. Um, and I'm not just talking altruistically, I do, but I think if I'm gonna spend my time in space on something, I wanted to do that, right? I think I wanted to help people and help and by by extension help me. Um so I think somewhere in that space, you know, unless somebody has a really good deal on tires, maybe I'll sell tires.

SPEAKER_03:

But even what you said, like that's such a I wanna I wanna talk about that because that was important. The altruistic and the especially in the world of people who have jobs where caring or empathy or giving or service of any kind is about other people, which is a lot of jobs, by the way. Um there's often this like societal norm that's become okay that the exchange is that they're broke and or on the edge of burnout, if not overburned out, right? And like when I had worked in Steamboat for a nonprofit, I got to that point and like I just remember being like, this isn't okay, because it's close to costing me rent my recovery. I'm broke, I'm burnt out, I'm exhausted, and I can't like input to me because I've given so much to everybody else. And this isn't okay, right? And so I made many choices after that, but I just sort of like promise to myself that I will keep doing work that matters, not at the exchange of me being broke. And in fact, that like I'm allowed the opposite of being broke, right? And that I'm allowed to have more and keep more and share more and be generous with more and do more in my own life. And that's been a active thing I have had to practice breaking in my own head.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. And I I agree with that, right? I I deal with much of the same in that like um it it feels like um sometimes if you're profitable, you must be doing something immoral or illegal. Um because that's the only way you make make you know money in this space. And that's just first of all, it's just not true. And I like you, I love what you said about having to break that stigma in my own head. I think so much we think about stigma, and it's only, oh, well, if you have holes in your jeans or whatever, you must be homeless. And it's stigma is so much far more far reaching than that, you know, um, and approaches people with money and with success as well. So yeah, yeah, I'm dealing with that. I'm dealing with that. Trying to find something positive to build. I think I have to, and that's what I mean by fine. And you're right, like, dude, it's so imperceptive to pick up on that and thoughtful that when I say fine, that is exactly what I mean. I mean things are they're fine. I don't have anything to complain about, and I want to make sure that I'm not in that weird space of losing gratitude. Um, but I'm not excited about anything right now either. Um and that can be, especially for you know, an alcoholic like myself, so detrimental because just like you said, if I don't have anything to be excited about, I'm gonna make something to be excited about in the wrong direction. Yeah, in the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so I have to be aware of that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, for sure. I'm so curious to see what that what that looks like and what that unfolds. What would you what would what feels exciting about anything right now? Like you just said you don't really have anything you're excited about. What would what would be nice to be excited about?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I don't know. I I don't know as far as I don't let me say like this, because this is more accurate. The fear is louder than the excitement right now.

SPEAKER_03:

I got you.

SPEAKER_00:

I can't, you know what I mean? I can't I don't have anything like oh, this is a thing. Um, I think this being the first time I'm saying it out loud um is is a step in the right direction. And not that, oh, I probably should because you're telling me I should and you're you you know more stuff, but like, hey, this is a thing that I pro that I think I should do. This is the first time of me like owning that and saying it out loud, and so I think I'm on that step before I don't I don't have anything yet where I'm like, oh, this is the thing I'd want to build.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and I love that like that's okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right? There's I have things I want to build, right? And the actual concrete form of that has shifted many times. There's only a couple aspects of it that I'm very sure of. And the rest of it, people ask me, and I don't answer all that much because it's kind of still unfolding. And this actual thing that we're in right now is one step of that. Part of it has to do with being seen more and using my voice and talking about the things that nobody ever talked about, right? But the whole big picture, I can't write you in this moment of full business plan. I could talk, I could talk a good outline, right, of where I want to head and what I think that is, but it also also informed by the way I move throughout the world.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. And like who I run into and I like perspective of things, right? Back to movement. When you make a new choice, even if it's to move like three steps to the left, now you can see like a little bit farther around the door than you could see before. And you might have another thought there or meet a different person. And so, like, that's the beauty of things. I also have to check myself to not let that be a reason to not do anything. Because I'm always like, oh, I'm just waiting and I haven't met the thing yet, and I'm in movement. And you're you're you're not actually doing anything. It's been a long time of sort of excuses, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, help's not coming. You gotta do it. Like, yeah, you know, and and and I think all of these things are are building towards a thing. I know that was like the most unspecific sentence. But I do know that, right? I know that in my soul is that all of these things are building towards a thing. Even that refrain, right, of like, hey, help's not coming, let's not get stuck in the money. You know, let's not get stuck in this. That is something I needed before I could do the next thing. Do you know I needed to wrap my brain around that before I can move forward? But yeah, something. We just don't know what.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but I'm so curious to see what that is. And like I said, and also just because I think you're a good leader, right? In in the aspects that we talked about before. And I know you lead people in work and other things and other aspects of things that you do. And I think it's a quiet strength that people respond to, right? They can go talk to you, you can hold space for things. You do a really good job of sort of seeing multiple sides and considering. Oh, I could see why we'd go that way and go this way, right?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I think um, yeah, man, I think being a leader for me, and especially in a leading, dude. That's the that's the thing. I've said this my whole life that like um man, I'm a I don't want to be a general, and that's the hurdle I think I'm trying to get over in my life, right? I'm cool in being a general. I can get those guys to follow you, but I don't want to be the one with the vision. Um, and I and I don't know why that's always scared me, but it it always has. There's something about committing totally and like um just that that super fire and belief in whatever the thing is, yeah, that has always terrified me that I don't have to have to get these guys to follow you. I'm a great sergeant, you know. Let me see SARS and you know, we'll get this stuff done. But being a general, having the vision and seeing it through completion is a little bit harder. Um, and I think the phase of life that I'm not in yet, but that I'm walking towards.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. It's so interesting though, especially when leadership has been shown that or demonstrated that, like movies, TV, real life, whatever, where that one equals another, that leadership equals that. And how do you be, you know, I've had to learn my own ways of that. How do I lead people in a way that's authentic to me, that works for my system? Cause like yelling at people isn't my jam. But like if we need to have a conversation, we can sit and talk about that. Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. But sort of finding your own way. And it's your dual, right? You're building, you might be building a business, but there's also the building of Rashad, the version of you that runs a business. Right. Right. And something I was talking about the other day that I liked that I don't know where I heard the first time or not was um that when I started making choices the last few years, I had to stop making choices from Natanya who I am today. And I had to start making choices from who I want to be and like live into those choices. And some of that has been scary.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Some of that I was like, I don't know about this. But all of it has life has held me back to your like no one is coming. But when I've made the choice and sort of taken the leap, then Nett has appeared. The right people have shown up, the right conversations have happened, and I couldn't have planned that. And that's it requires it requires a lot of faith.

SPEAKER_00:

Faith, man. Faith in everything, you know, faith and gratitude.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, it's gonna happen, and when it does, thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I can't be, I can't, I can't wait to get that phone call of like, I started it. No, you know what? I'm more excited to get the one that you're leaving the country.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

When you buy the ticket, I want a text message or a phone call, and I want to know where you're going.

SPEAKER_00:

I will. I dude, you know, it's the scariest thing for me, and I don't know why this is, but I have to talk about this as we're kind of rapping. I have to talk about this. This happened to me. I have like the biggest fear of like planning stuff. And I'm like, the second I do this, something's gonna go wrong. I want to commit to this, and I just have to say this to get it out of my head and into the real world, because it happened to me recently where you know, a friend of mine was like, hey, I wanna I wanna go see a game. And I was like, Yeah, man, dude, let's do it. And uh he's a fan of a team, and and so I found out when the Rockies were playing a team, I bought tickets, and like I bought like good tickets, and not on my work time, like on my time. And you know, of course, you know me, like I did everything prior to hey, what's the best day? These are the days they're in town, what's the best day? This is the times. Oh, this wanna work. Okay. And the second I bought the tickets, dude. Like, I couldn't have predicted that. And that's the thing that I think happens to me so often is like who knows what'll be happening at that time. I'm not gonna commit to this. And um, and then I end up doing nothing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so I'm gonna ask you, will you go down a rabbit hole with me for a second?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Um so if that's happened to you and it's repeated more than once in your life, like I want you to go back to younger Rashad for a minute.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, where did you either make a commitment or someone promised you something and they didn't show up?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, man, the earliest memory I have of that um is honestly my dad. Uh is my dad would be supposed to pick me up from school and not show up, or supposed to pick me up for the weekend and not show up. Um and so I would get excited and it wouldn't happen. And that's like in elementary school. And so in my mind, you know, as long as I can legit remember, it's been okay, well, that thing'll happen when it happens.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what I mean? Like very much a buy tickets at the door kind of guy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know?

SPEAKER_03:

Um Well, and it's if that's your experience with commitment, because your commitment fear isn't you. It's not that you won't show up in a commitment or that you'll get hurt, it's that the other person won't show up, won't meet you, will bail, will will not hold up their end of the bargain.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. Right? 100%. I'm gonna buy tickets to Costa Rica, and the day that I'm supposed to go, they're gonna close the country.

unknown:

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what I mean? Like it's not gonna stop that I didn't want to go. We can't come.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but it's yeah, but it's and I ask that because that happens a lot, right? Where we have all these stuff that we run into as adults root somewhere. And you you'll repeat the pattern if you still have the belief and you haven't interrupted it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think I that's dude, that's gonna write that down because that's something to talk to my therapist about. And we can probably attack and some parts work because yeah, and again, interrupting the pattern is probably the best way to put it because it continues to happen. You know, I plan things and and just like that. Sorry that dude, it's not his fault. It's totally understandable why you know things happen, but my brain and my heart goes, Oh, there's that like of course it happened, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Of course, yeah, you think that, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and it and you're right, it does pause me from doing a lot of things. I've been better about it, right? About committing to things um and trying to make sure, you know, that I don't die about it when it doesn't happen. That's there there goes that thinking, right? That oh, it's not gonna happen, right? You know, so yeah, I've been I've been working on it. I've been at least committing to things, which is huge.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and like finding, so A, where you learned that, where had repeated itself, but then also today, finding ways to break that and tell a different story. So finding evidence of the opposite.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Where are all the ways in which people show up for you all the time?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03:

Right? Or go out of their way to plan things for you. Case in point, this conversation was my idea.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right? I created it, I invited you, I showed up, I tried to make sure you're having, you know, like that you have people in all corners of your life that not only will show up for you, but invite you to stuff. Because they want you to be there, right? But it's so interesting because it's like that, that can change your whole life and the way you look at everything.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I agree with that. I agree with that for sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03:

I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01:

Dude, this was great.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I like I said, I I want to know what country it is, and I want to get a phone call. Like I want a picture of the ticket you bought.

SPEAKER_00:

I'll do it. I'll make sure you do.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, please let me know. Thank you so much for this. I appreciate you. And we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, we will. I love you, and this is great.

SPEAKER_03:

Love you too. Bye.

SPEAKER_00:

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you so much for being here. It means more than you know. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find the show. If you want more of me, head on over to nataniallison.com and enter your name and email for behind the scenes updates in between shows. New episodes air every Tuesday. We'll see you next week.