EP03: Channeling Hope | A Psychic’s Story of Recovery and Guidance with Bee Herz

This week’s episode meets us at one of my most treasured places: the intersection of intuition and addiction.

In this conversation with one of my FAVORITE humans on this planet, psychic Bee Herz opens up on her personal recovery journey through rehab before transitioning to a powerful channeling session focused on discovering your life's purpose. She gets into themes of intuition, empathy, and how most addicts have intuition in spades.  

Somewhere in the middle of the episode, she moves from answering my questions as a human into being a vessel and sharing her gift through delivering spiritual wisdom. It’s then that she dives into purpose - how it’s scalable, what that means, and she uses my work in the world as an example. We talk about one of my top favorite concepts and ways of being in the world—curiosity—and how sometimes we have to take the faith walk in life. 

Most importantly, we discuss the belief that life can improve—even after addiction. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Bee’s Journey in Rehab: One of These Things Is Not Like the Other
• 9:27 Intuition and Empathy: The Hidden Gifts of Addicts
• 12:32 The Psychic Experience and Navigating Intuition in Recovery
• 21:39 Lessons from Addiction and Embracing Every Experience
• 24:32 The Path Forward: Understanding the Dynamics of Purpose
• 31:08 How Purpose is Always Scalable—And She Uses My Life as an Example
• 45:22 How to Handle Not Feeling Supported + Words to Those in Active Addiction

Transcript

Speaker 1 (03:36) 

Okay. 

Speaker 2 (03:38) 

Okay, so I go to rehab for alcohol addiction. Let me preface what I'm saying now. Yeah. And I am there and I am I go in and I of course it's my first time at rehab and I've never ever in my life thought I would be in rehab. I'm almost a 60 year old woman and I'm in a rehab that I don't have the resources for a highfalutin nice rehab. 

You know, the ones with the massage. Massage and the acupuncture and the bubbly waters. No, I am in a rehab where everyone there is, and I say this with all respect and love for the people that get this done, because I don't know how you get it done, and the artists that do it. Tattoos from head to toe. And I have a new appreciation for the art of tattoo. 

Speaker 1 (04:10) 

The balance. 

Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 2 (04:34) 

Not only that, have been sent there from prison, jail, have spent time in prison, have anger issues and are male that it's coed as well, which is sort of disturbing because they're aggressive and nothing like I've been around this subset of culture and I'm an alcoholic and they're all hard drug users. Most of them are very difficult, hard drug users. 

So I'm there and everyone's saying, know, all the rehab counselors are saying, ⁓ you're to find you have everything in common. And I'm looking around going, I have nothing in common with these people. My roommate happens to be a butcher. She is lovely. I got really lucky on that score. But however, all the other ones are in my face going, what do you do for a living? 

Speaker 1 (05:30) 

haha 

Speaker 2 (05:31) 

Like, I'm feeling a little sick right now. I don't want to talk about it because the first rule of kind of rehab is being honest and you're there to get real and get through your shit. And so you can get the hell out of there ASAP. And finally, I say, I'm a psychic. And it goes around in the rehab that I'm a psychic. I can see the looks of, yeah, sure, you are. 

What the fuck is this all about? Pardon my French. But it's interesting. So I'm not only old and odd. Now I'm weird old and odd. ⁓ 

Weird old and odd. so, but as time goes on, what I really did realize is that I am an addict. am an addict. It doesn't matter your age, your circumstances, your walk. We all have the same behaviors. We all have the same life foibles and journey. It might look different, but it's in essence the same walk as being human is sort of the same walk. 

But addicts have a particular lane they choose to go down. The road, ⁓ I would say less traveled, but unfortunately this day it's probably the road most traveled, which is sad. And I also find out when I get to know these people how intuitive they are. And sitting in a room of a bunch of intuitive empaths, which I have not done before, and 

I've always been the odd one out, feeling things, knowing things, sensing things. But in a room of people that have substance abuse issues, what I have found are some kind of, over the years, just watching people and knowing people, is that there are, we're very intuitive, we're very empathic, we're very, because we're in survival mode, which are all the things intuition, 

comes from survival. It's like, you have the gooses, your hair raises on your arm. And something's about to happen, or you know something. Well, that's when we were a Cro-Magnum, whether you believe in that theory or not, our bodies are hardwired to know when danger is present. And that is the very foundation of intuition, knowing before we see so we can survive. So in essence, that theme right there starts when we're born. 

We cry when something is wrong, and I sometimes still when we're 60 cry when something is, when we know something is upsetting and wrong and we don't have words for it, what is that intuition, feeling, knowing? And addicts have it in spades because we run around in survival mode. We run around trying to hide our feelings or suppress it. 

And unfortunately, a lot of times what psychedelics do, and this has been known since the 60s, ergo, the invention of, or the procreation and invention of LSD and psychedelics, was to enhance your feelings. And then we get to the generation of raves and that drug, I can't think of the name of it. 

And the drug that makes you feel more, it was invented to make you feel for relationships, to make you feel more sexually, to make you feel more in touch, in tune, ⁓ is really making people then that are feelers feel more. It's just fascinating to me that this whole world of addicts and this whole world of addiction is filled with people that are empaths, psychics, and probably healers. 

Yeah, and yeah, and are trying to get rid of it. Yeah, instead of, know, going down a path of getting paid for it like I did, you know, it back in the day or using it like I teach students to or other people to do in their everyday life to enhance your life and to actually know that you're special. 

And not in a kind of a defunct way as addicts feel, yeah, you're special. You have this disease and we're told all these kinds of things to have us put this kind of crooked crown on to say, yeah, we're special and we're all together and we're grouped together. But we really are have enhanced abilities. And I don't know what the research would show, I would add dozens to donuts that it would show that addicts have a much higher rate of psychic intuition, mediumship, healing aptitude. 

definitely empathic. 

Speaker 1 (10:23) 

Yeah, I believe that. So what has been like that was in rehab. So what happened when everyone found out you were psychic? 

Speaker 2 (10:35) 

Well, the first time I was in rehab, everyone knew. And so people would take me to the side and say, even the most hardened of, I would say, criminals in that environment. So to me, that was hardened. don't know what anybody else, like your walk is. But they had been to prison. They had sold drugs. They had done drugs. And this is my first encounter with that kind of situation. 

They are very ⁓ intuitive and kind and would take me to the side and say, hey, this happened to me or this, I had this dream or what do you think about? I saw my grandmother's ghost, whatever. Everybody has had an experience. I would say almost everyone has had an intuitive experience of some sort, a knowing somebody, ⁓ to the smallest to the largest. I was just thinking of you and you called, which I put in the minor category. 

to the large ones of, my gosh, I saw something, maybe something tragic. I saw a world event and it happened, or I felt somebody was dying and then I got a call they had passed, or to, see things ⁓ and you really are seeing things. Your mind is not altered on any kind of substance or anything else in life. You wake up and you see a ghost or you hear things or you know things. 

⁓ these events happen to everyone and they were happening to people that I had met in rehab more than the, everyone was taking me to the side and asking about it. And more so in that culture and that in that, in, in that environment than I have anywhere else. mean, I've been to dinner parties, I have friends, I have this and people know what I do. And a lot of people aren't that curious. I would say. 

addiction and addicts by nature. If you're looking at your addiction, your working steps or you're trying to do something else, Buddhism, there's a lot of different paths for recovery. You're looking at your own behavior. Therefore, you're sifting through your life and things that are not easily ⁓ processed or explainable. if you are in therapy or are in rehab and you're saying, you know, this thing keeps happening to me and I'm, I don't know why. Explain this one, you know, guru or therapist or 

And you don't have someone that can hear that, then it's like something else that makes you different than or strange than and makes you feel off and weird and adds to the reason that you might want to use a substance. Instead of someone that says, my gosh, I have that every day, get in line. Get in line between five other, 10 other people in this room to find out that this is something that is really occurring quite frequently. 

And so after, so in rehab that was really interesting. And then when I got out of rehab and started going, you know, into the rooms, as they say, of addiction ⁓ and working in 12 step programs, I really realized that most people have this and are very empathic and very sensitive and really tuned in. And some people are really curious and some people aren't. ⁓ I really don't announce 

I don't proselytize in meetings what I do. Yeah, I'm be psychic medium and addict. ⁓ You know, that doesn't come out. I'm be addict. know, ⁓ but it gets around. I know, especially because I live in a small town and people will reach out. They are curious because you're, you're, you're wounded and you're trying to push down your feelings and your senses instead of being rewarded for having those 

really intelligent, insightful gifts, you're trying to get rid of them and trying to heal from feeling, which is not really the path. The path is feel, heal, process, relate, and live a good life. But who is addressing 

Speaker 1 (14:52) 

the 

Speaker 2 (14:54) 

otherworldly that happens, the spiritual. We have higher power, but do we have someone that says, yeah, you're, you're, you're seeing ghosts. Okay. Perfectly normal. Yeah. I mean, who does that on any regular basis? Well, and so 

Speaker 1 (15:10) 

like if you after I had been I was like maybe three months sober and the first thing that happened that I noticed was my ears started ringing and They started it was all the time and I thought something was wrong with me. And then I thought I was fucking crazy Yeah, and like then at one point in time you and I talked about that and like what like I always want to know what everything means because I mean I overthink everything ⁓ 

But since then, many other things have happened. And I remember talking to you about being, you said at one point that I was a psychic and I was like, I am not a psychic. Because I'm not a psychic the way that you're a psychic. Right? And understanding that the way this unfolds or develops or changes or what it means for one person may be very different than what it means for someone else. 

Speaker 2 (16:04) 

Correct. And that is true. And the ear ringing, just if anyone has it, it happens to people. First of all, it is a real disorder. That's an eye. So if you are having it, first, in my profession, as in the medical profession, I practice do no harm. So get it checked out. If it comes and goes, it's also a pressure thing. I am, if anything else, the least woo-woo person of woo-woo people. 

have to make sure that everything is not human medically otherwise electronic before I can say this is what this means. But it happened to me as well. And it's really ⁓ interesting because it's aboriginal and in nature that when your ears ring, that's where it came from. It means you're getting a download of information from an outside source and it bypasses your 

AKA ⁓ thinking brain, if you will. So you're getting information. And it doesn't surprise me at all that it happens to people when they get clean or sober, get off drugs, get off substances, because your brain isn't available to process certain things because it's in an altered state. So all of a sudden, all this information is kind of like a ticker tape above you ready to. 

you're able and willing to process it now so it drops in. So the ear ringing is really interesting. And I would be interested to say, people that are listening to this discussion, how many of you are addicts and how many of you have experienced things after you've gotten clean or sober? What does that look like for you? Because it should become more intense. And how do you deal with that? 

when you can't use a substance to push down the thoughts and the feelings and the outside information that makes you feel like you're going crazy on some level. The degree of how that affects you. And to really, I would love to have a 12 step intuitive. A 12 step. 

surrender step one, you are powerless over your intuition and goes, I don't know, you know, some kind of fun way to address this or, you know, it to say, you know, it's okay, you know, yeah, you're different, you're, you're, you're strange and whatever we all are in some degree, but it's all right, it's okay. And you can do with it, whatever you want to do with it. You don't have to 

You know, do it for a living. You can take it into your everyday life and it just enhances and it just allows you to accept a piece of yourself. All of this walk is about accepting pieces of ourselves and not pushing them away. So. 

Speaker 1 (19:10) 

Yeah. 

And that was one of the things I didn't, realized that afterwards that I could feel so much. And I didn't know that part of why I was numbing out so much, I didn't want to feel people. ⁓ but I didn't have language for that. 

Speaker 2 (19:25) 

There is no language. There is no language for the, if you will, supernatural world. I struggle with it all the time. I'm like, pardon my lack of words. And this sound, it might sound trite. I mean, like I hate the word ghost. I hate the word psychic. I mean, I would love for language to develop in my... 

field or in that arena. And the fact that it hasn't just goes to prove that people don't spend a lot of time there. Or it would. We would have slang. We don't have slang. We don't have a lot of words for anything in my realm. 

Speaker 1 (20:03) 

Why do think 

people don't ask you that much? It's one of the things that baffles me because I'm so curious all the time about your experience. Why do you think no one ever asks you? 

Speaker 2 (20:15) 

Well, I would have to guess. Well, I know people have told me some things over the years, obviously. But I think that part of it is because they're embarrassed that they're having this reaction. Or I'm going to tell you, I have no idea, which is going to scare you even more that something is wrong. A lot of times, this is put in the mental disorders category. 

And so, you know, and a lot of people that have addiction have dual diagnosis. We have a lot of stuff going on. So if you say, you know, I'm hearing voices and I'm going to say, sorry, you need to go get that checked out. That doesn't I'm not a doctor. I'm not telling you there's something wrong with you. I'm just saying in my and I do explain this. I just don't let that lie. As you know, I'm a I'm a heavy person on explaining the human experience along with. 

the psychic phenomenon and I think it's so important because you will scare people if you're in my profession and you just say, yeah, you're hearing voices too. No, that's not really happening to you. Go to a doctor. That is so, so, ⁓ just in, inhumane to do to somebody as well. I think people are afraid. That's why they don't come. I think that they're afraid to hear or see. And what if I say, yeah, yeah, you are seeing ghosts. Well, that's kind of scary too. What do I do about that? 

Well, I do have tools after 25 years of practicing this. I do have things you can do. ⁓ When you go to somebody that has been doing this for a long period of time, then you do, I might not have great words, but I do have some advice on how to deal with things. And I think that there's fear. I think that there's the unknown. I think that people think, ⁓ she doesn't want to be bothered with it. 

I think there are a plethora of reasons, but I find it refreshing when somebody wants to know what, why I do what I do. And as you know, because you ask a gazillion questions, which I love, but a lot of times it's like, I have no idea. I have no idea why I receive the things I receive. have no, you know, and that's another interesting phenomenon that this happens to people, but 

no one is willing to do the research in this area, in this arena. And it's such a big part of people's lives and it's still kind of in the dark ages. Discovery of witches, if you will. 

Speaker 1 (22:49) 

Yes, so how many times were you in rehab? 

Speaker 2 (22:55) 

let's see. One, two and a half. Meaning I did two 30-day stents and one of like a long weekend for, ⁓ you know what, see, I'm not remembering what it's called now. When you're trying to get off of, know, when they medically take you off of a substance. Thank you. Yes. Here it is. 

Speaker 1 (23:18) 

Detox. 

So what do you think, at what point, what changed or what made it work? Like, where did you shift from going backwards to like, changed into moving forward? 

Speaker 2 (23:34) 

Wasn't that the magic question, right? And when I came into, when I started going to meetings and stuff, I heard a lot of people say, you're a miracle, that you're sitting here. And statistically, okay, and I'm not big on math. Yes, probably. ⁓ However, I think everyone gets to their, it's very simple and simple things are really difficult. Simple constructs, yes, there is a God. 

You know, simple ideas are really just bleak, are very difficult to wrap our heads around. want a lot, our brains want a lot of information to make a story. So when people say you're sitting here, you're a miracle. I'm always why. Okay, statistically, okay, fine, check. But really why? Why did I get it and so many other people have not? I think part of that is 

I think different, there's recipes for everyone. First of all, the pain of suffering becomes larger than the pain of not suffering. And that's just human. So we make a decision not to be in pain. And then I think from the decision not to be in pain is, my life enhanced by not using a substance? And that's where I think a lot of people fail on this step. Because yes, 

We're miserable. Yes, our lives are torn apart. Yes, you know, for me, all of that was true. I have nowhere to go from this space except somewhere. I don't know what that looks like in a different type of life. I can't go back to the one I had before because I trashed it. can't. I don't know what the one forward looks like. So there's a lot of fear. I think stubbornness and as addicts, are so perfectionist controlling 

stubborn creatures. And that's why a lot of us don't make it, because we use that to our own detriment. But if we can use that and start using it in small ways when we first get into recovery, to to propel us just to take the next right step, as they say, now I'm going to start using, you know, the the slogans and the sayings that I, I really dislike, but are so apt that, you know, they've been around because they they're true, they're truisms. 

Speaker 1 (25:33) 

huh. 

Speaker 2 (26:01) 

that when you do the next best stubborn right perfectionist thing, but it's in your behalf, it's to serve you and more importantly others, that gives us something called purpose, then we start a different trajectory and our brains start to heal, our bodies start to heal and we get better. Now, with that being said, a bunch of pain can come. 

Speaker 1 (26:25) 

Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 2 (26:30) 

come in on any triggers, as they say, or somebody does something crappy, you lose your job, whatever it may be. There's a lot going on in our world right now that we want to tune out. mean, people just can't come home and turn on the TV and blissfully slip away. And in my era of the wonderful world or Disney or all of the family or whatever it might be, NCIS, what it is these days, Netflix, yes, you can. 

But in between that, you're hearing noise all the time. You're hearing all the stuff that's going on in the world. And if you're sensitive, it adds, it's just another layer of the crap Sunday that is stress in our lives. And it's difficult. It's difficult to escape. So the knowing ⁓ comes in and says, OK, you're having a moment. You're having some reactions. You're having this and that. 

But on top of that, you're also a really sensitive person. And I hate that word, sensitive person. You're a very empathic person. OK, how do you just the general acceptance that that's who you are, another part of you, can help relieve that and also help with not wanting to pick up and drown out all the noise we have in our lives. 

Speaker 1 (27:49) 

So I have a question. You you talked about purpose for a minute. And people, I'm curious, because sometimes people will refer to like their addiction or that time when they were, however many years it was, as like they failed or it was a problem or, you know, they somehow fucked things up for lack of better words. But is it part of the plan? Like, is it, did they really go that far from off rails or was it helpful? 

Speaker 2 (28:20) 

believe that every experience we have, and this is just my personal belief, is helpful. Now, it might not be pleasant, but it's, you know, and as many people in the new age or guru-y or psychic, whatever field say, it's a lesson. ⁓ And that is the best word I think that we can use. I'm just tired of it. But I think that we have these things that... 

Speaker 1 (28:26) 

Okay. 

Speaker 2 (28:47) 

to survive here in human form, because that's who we are on this level and at this time is human. And the human experience is dense and it's difficult, but it can also be when we embrace it and we get healthy, essential and I'm essential in all those words, know, sensual smells and this human body can do some really fun things and really see things and invent things and our brains can. 

can go to places and travel places that, you know, we're really, humans are really interesting. And so purpose gives us a reason for being in our bodies at this time on this planet. Why are we here? There can be, I wouldn't say a thousand reasons, but there can be a good 10 reasons. You're a mother, you're your job, 

What drives you? What heals you? And that changes over our lifetime as we age as well. Being a child, just surviving childhood, just surviving every day. That's purpose in and of itself. But when we get to a point as ⁓ Maslow's Hierarchy, which is sort of like, you know, our base, when we have our base functions met. 

and we start to evolve, even as addicts, we start to evolve up that hierarchy and we have our needs met, life starts getting better, da da da da da. Then purpose takes on a different meaning. What do I want to do to help me enjoy this human experience? And sometimes people call that the pink cloud. And what recovery does in this, about bring recovery into this, is really special. 

in this one aspect is that it says give back to others what you have been so freely given. That is biblically biblical biblical important because unless you are truly in your and you truly have 

Speaker 1 (30:56) 

I'm 

Speaker 2 (31:08) 

you're truly, truly struggling. And that might be with other issues. Even as sick or as unhealthy as we are, if we can do one thing for another person, just to listen. And if that's even somebody helping us at the time, but to say, was your day? If we can look at that as a form of getting out of ourselves, we can start to feel better. It is the one tried and true thing that helps addicts 

And humans. Into purpose. Then we start to want to do it because it makes us feel good. It's not that we made the other person feel good, it's that it made us feel something good about ourselves. And that is why purpose is so important is because it gives us it gives us a framework in a way. 

to move through the human experience and when bad lessons, not bad, difficult things come in, we can run it up the flagpole of purpose and see where it lands. Okay, did I need to know this? Did I have to go through this? Why did I go through this? Of course there's a reason. There's always a reason. But do we give a reason a reason? Meaning, how do we explain this experience to ourselves? 

Do we make addiction into something that's purposeful and meaningful? And how do we do that? Do we have to, you know, do the big things, you know, start nonprofits, start a podcast, right? Like, do we have to do the things or can we do the little things? And I would say yes to all of the above. And that's what purpose is. Purpose is, I always know when I hit purpose with people. 

Speaker 1 (32:39) 

Hmm. 

Speaker 2 (33:00) 

It's scalable. can be the littlest of things and it can be the largest of things that you do with your life. 

Speaker 1 (33:06) 

Can you give me an example of someone's purpose that's scalable? Like where they might stop here or where they might keep going? 

Speaker 2 (33:13) 

Can I use you as an example? go for it. Okay, so when we first met, you came to me and we were talking about your potential in the intuitive field. And I get all excited and I'm like, yeah, you can be a psychic. Look at this, look at this. And you're looking at me like, yeah, crazy lady. 

Speaker 1 (33:16) 

Go for 

Speaker 2 (33:39) 

That's exactly what I said when I was five. I want to grow up and be a psychic because you know and I forget I didn't do that either. I would have been horrified. You know, no, I'm going, like I don't even want to you know grow up to even see what that looks like. And so we didn't speak for quite a period of time after that. We talked and stuff but we didn't like engage in that and it's always really sad to people ask me what their purpose is and I get this 

beautiful picture of life and it scares people or it's not what you think it is. And so that's a lot of times when people don't ask me questions for the very reason that interaction between us. But then it kept niggling at you. And so you came back and, you know, and years later of our friendship and working together, we went through a process and you were curious. Curiosity is 

in resilience. So you kept asking questions and hearing the answers and saying, okay, maybe I can utilize this in other ways in my life. I don't have to be a psychic. No, you don't. That's not really what I said, by the way. But ⁓ if I go back in time, which, I don't, I, you know, I probably said you can use this in other ways. But if you're just looking at me, you're thinking I'm describing. 

I'm wanting you to join the cult. No, I don't. I just want you to be good with your intuition. And if you have really great intuition, my gosh, let's do something with this. And so because it's going to keep keep on and it gets, you know. So I think what's fascinating is you said no. And then it bothered you or nailed you. don't know exactly what it did. You were curious, I think more than anything. And you came back. You could have stopped and gone about your life and been fine. 

Right. But then when we started working together and you started saying yes to learning more about this, this side of your life and what that did was open up a whole different reality for you that you could experience life differently than you had before you realized you had this amazing intuition and this amazing gift. 

to A, help others and B, utilize your intuition and your empathy and all those goodies along with what we looked at as purpose. And for you, you wanted to give back. And how we together, work together to kind of get you on a path to craft that. You could have stopped any step of the way. You could have said, okay, I just wanna be a sponsor. 

Okay, in addiction, I, you know, I just, want to go back to school and be a therapist. ⁓ There are many things you could have stopped along the way. And what's interesting is what I always kind of saw for you is a very large life. And here, I hate words, ⁓ large meaning, large potential. You could, you could dramatically change addiction 

in any way you want, in a way that you wanted to with love and compassion and wisdom and smarts and how that came about was through how can you do that best? And a lot of this is working with the intuitive side and the information that's given, but also the human. What can we do? Okay, we get the information. Now, how can we apply this to you as a human? And maybe that's working in addiction. ⁓ 

which you've done all of this, but you didn't stop. You're like, okay, well, I want more, want more. And I think because you're meant to do more now. We're speaking about you. Other people would stop right where you are right now. And that's with podcasts, that's with helping people in addiction, that's with, you can keep your JOB, your job as I like to call it, which enhances your life. ⁓ 

Allows you to do these other things aka for free without making money But do you want to step in the world of service where you you? Make money as something you love to do and that's really what we all want to do and that's where you are You're going to do you know your podcasting books? ⁓ Your own your own business with addiction your own nonprofit, you know, these are things that create a platform 

for you and purpose. Now, if you had stopped with, I just want to be a sponsor, does large or small make a difference to you? You have had free will and a choice every step of this journey. When something gets too scary, you could have stopped for a year and said, no, I don't want to do anymore. I want to stay right here. You could have stopped right where you were five years ago and said, this is what I want. This is all I want. 

I just want to be free from addiction. And that is admirable and that is purpose. Then we find purpose in other ways in your life. And it would have been glorious and wonderful. There's no right or wrong here. It just is. Do you want to keep growing? ⁓ And in growth, I don't mean as a good thing. It just is a thing. You say yes to. How much do you want to, how much of... 

a part of purpose do you want to be a part of? Do you want it to be an eighth of the pie, a quarter of the pie, or the pie? Do you want to live purpose? If you want to live purpose, people that live purpose are, I will say, usually doctors. It's a high energy, you're all in, you live your life all for purpose. And that's a big ask. It's what you do. 

That's not to say that you don't have other things that give you joy because you do. just learn and being in addiction, you learn to have balance where a lot of people that live their purpose kind of have to go through these hard, difficult lessons. And so purpose is scalable. So you could have stopped any step of the way and you can still stop. You can stop at any time and say, want to retire. And does that mean 

that you're any less successful as a human in this lifetime with purpose and what you've done. Absolutely not. It's just what you are comfortable with and your timeline. But you, my friend, are such an interesting human that you say, I keep saying yes, I want more, I want more, I want more. And in a really beautiful way that you're saying yes to. 

purpose itself and whatever that brings you without really knowing what that's going to end up looking like. And it just keeps growing from that place. And that's called faith. 

Speaker 1 (41:05) 

The faith walk. 

Speaker 2 (41:08) 

So that was a really long-winded 

Speaker 1 (41:10) 

beautiful though and I like where you landed on the faith walk because I think people ask that question. Is this enough? Should I keep going? What does it look like? Right and when they stand at a crossroads how to make that choice and how to lean into what's right for them. Do you have any thoughts on how they can get in touch with what is the best choice for them if they should go left or right or how to lean in more to purpose if they don't know? 

Speaker 2 (41:37) 

Yes, I think if you're fine where you are and you're like, I'm really happy. If you look around at your life and you're, I mean, not that we have to be, ⁓ my gosh, my life is grand, but if you're happy and content, I say content, things are going well, fine, stay there. But however, as we grow and we walk this walk, things happen. And if something shifts or changes in your life, 

and you want to do more, to be more, to give more, or to do less, but when you do less, you find you have a hole in your life and you don't know how to fill it. That could be retirement, that could be a death, that could be a change of divorce, that could be job change, that could be many things, many life things happen to us. Then that is a wonderful place to start looking at where 

Am I really happy? Is there something I've always wanted to do? And I think the word that at that juncture get curious. And there's a lot of fear with curiosity, right? Because we don't understand. It's like we're taught as kids, don't be too curious, you know, because we're born curious. 

Speaker 1 (42:58) 

Curiosity 

cat or something. 

Speaker 2 (43:00) 

It did, but it really doesn't. know, that's saying I really dislike. I also tried and through isms. would say, yeah, for the baby walking around on the floor. Yes, but there's an adult that's supposed to be there that tempers that curiosity. When you're an adult or when you're even not an adult, I would say when your brain is still, you know, in your teenage years and upwards, be curious in healthy ways. You know, go, go. 

If you're curious about, don't know, I was really, really weirdly curious kid that probably doesn't surprise, but like I, thought I wanted to be a mortician for a time because it wasn't the mortician. It was the fascination with what happens when we die because I'm on the looking back at it. None. All of this makes sense because of what I ended up doing with my purpose. Yeah. But I said, okay, that's really weird. But I fortunately had a really weird friend who wanted to write them. 

a movie on death. So he went with me. And so he didn't think it was weird at all. The weirder the better. So, know, surround yourself with people that are curious and in your tribe as well that are curious about weird things or, you know, it might not be weird things. It might be everyday things. You know, you're curious about firefighting. You're curious about whatever it might be. And to me, that's an everyday thing, because in my world, that's just an everyday thing. ⁓ 

You're curious about aliens. I don't know. Go figure it out. Be the one that gets to be the expert on why we don't know what we know or why we do know. You know, take that curiosity and lean into it. And that's really at any point in your life. I don't care if you're listening to this and you're 80 at any point in your life. Curiosity, lean in. 

And try and conquer the fear. I know that's really, really difficult. But if you can, if you do first and then think about the fear later and take somebody crazy with you that isn't afraid, or is as afraid as you, but you're doing it together, you know, that is, that is, that is a great next step coming full circle. That's a great next step. And that will always lead you towards health, wealth, 

purpose and a long loving life. 

Speaker 1 (45:27) 

So what would you tell someone who feels like they don't feel supported or they're met with a bunch of negativity or people that don't believe that or don't tear them on or shut them down? 

Speaker 2 (45:40) 

That's simple. And remember, near the beginning of this conversation, I simple is difficult. Simple is one of the most difficult things we can do. Get yourself out of the situation. And that is sometimes the most difficult thing we can do, and especially if we're looking at addiction. Get yourself out of things, people, places, and things that are not supportive of your well-being. 

Speaker 1 (45:48) 

Mm. 

Speaker 2 (46:10) 

And if you're an active addiction right now and listening to this, then your brain is going, hey, bitch, I'm feeling pretty good right now. I just heard part of that and I'm feeling really good because I'm going to go find my purpose tomorrow. I'm going to go do this tomorrow. but between now and then I have something to look forward to. So I'm to use the million reasons we use or you're crazy. 

I have nothing left and I want to sit here and use. Is that really the next best thing for you? Are you curious about where you are right now? I would say in addiction, I don't think you're curious ever. I think you're trying to numb and not be curious. You're not trying to lean in, you're trying to lean out. 

Speaker 1 (47:04) 

Mm. 

Speaker 2 (47:06) 

And so if you're trying to lean out. 

get out. And I say that and it was very one of the hardest, the hardest, the most difficult thing I've had to do in 61 years of my life was the most difficult path that I walked was getting clean, sober, whatever you want to call that. Move, move your body, even if it's just into the next room. 

Just get up and do something that is healthy for you first. If you can't, if you can't, keep trying. 

because there's no reason I should be here today. Absolutely zero reason, but I am and I'm glad I am. Yeah. For the most part, there are days I'm not, but we all have those. I think once we get past addiction allows us to have, it's a gift in the respect that allows us to have perspective into ourselves, which most people are never given and it's never wanna look at. 

It allows that and it also allows us to be healthier versions. And people that we can't even imagine and have thoughts and ideas and friends and go places that we would have never experienced before. And what is that if that is not joyful purpose, exciting adventure, it's living. And that's what if you're in addiction. 

and you want to get out of addiction, that's what you have to look forward to. Purpose and a life of living and loving yourself first and then others. 

Speaker 1 (48:57) 

That was really beautiful. My last question is for anyone who's listening, what do they need to know the most? 

Speaker 2 (49:09) 

It gets better. 

Speaker 1 (49:10) 

Hmm. 

Speaker 2 (49:13) 

Everything gets better. It might get worse before it gets better. It might flatten out for 10 years. You might be walking in the desert, but it will get better. I promise. It gets better. It gets worse. It gets better. It gets worse. And that's how we grow. Anyone that's listening to this, if you can have a little bit of faith 

in something. Something. That is a glimmer of hope that, my gosh, I'm still alive today. I have no reason to be still alive today, but I'm still alive today. What do I want to do with this day? Like, can I do something a little bit different? 

Just know it gets better if you can find a reason to get up off the floor. 

Speaker 1 (50:13) 

I love that. I love you. I love you too. 

Speaker 2 (50:17) 

Ew! 

Speaker 1 (50:20) 

You got me teary there at the end. Because inside it gets better lives hope. 

Speaker 2 (50:28) 

Yes, it does. Hope, faith, these words that we throw away, throw around, they're really meant to be lived. You have to live faith, you have to live hope, you have to live into it. And it's not always, they're great words. Grace, we have to live grace, we have to live love, we have to live hope. And to do that, we have to live. 

So just know it gets better. You're here. If you're here, you're meant to be here. And in my world, if you're hearing me and you're not here, sorry. 

Yeah, but you know There's still things to do you don't get you know death isn't the end-all be-all you don't get to die and just you don't feel anything people There's lessons in heaven Believe it or not, and I hate that word heaven, but I don't know what else to call it there You still keep growing you still keep learning. We are we are energy of life We never stop being So hang in there it gets better 

Speaker 1 (51:42) 

Thank you. 

Speaker 2 (51:44) 

You're very welcome. It was a pleasure. 

Speaker 1 (51:47) 

Thank you so much, appreciate it more than you know. I hope, I know they do too. 

Speaker 2 (51:52) 

Well, I thank you for the work that you're doing and bringing different viewpoints and thoughts and discussions and curious conversations into this arena. It's important. I guess. Thank you. 

Speaker 1 (52:05) 

where purpose takes me. 

Speaker 2 (52:07) 

Yes we will young lady but your psychic knows. Unless you choose to say no. 

Speaker 1 (52:15) 

Well, so far that hasn't been the case. 

Speaker 2 (52:18) 

That has not. And you've gone fast and furious up the ladder. Yes, you have. ⁓