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What I Didn't Know: Conversations on Resilience, Healing, and Becoming
In 2018, after years of checking off boxes and chasing approval instead of truth, I found myself sitting on a kitchen floor for the first time facing the uncensored story about everything in my life that wasn’t working.
Since then, it's become my passion to share the knowledge I’ve gained in order to help people help themselves.
Welcome to What I Didn't Know — a podcast about the lessons life has taught us the hard way. Life is difficult sometimes; around here we’re getting better through healing out loud. This is a space for honest conversations—about letting go, courage, resilience, and becoming.
Find more info at netanyaallyson.com
What I Didn't Know: Conversations on Resilience, Healing, and Becoming
EP10: Empowered Aging & Radical Reinvention | Trading Perfectionism for Wisdom with Anne Taylor
"I think that the essence of reinventing yourself is owning who you are."
Join us for a heartfelt and profound conversation with Anne Taylor that redefines what it means to age powerfully and joyfully. We dive deep into the silent struggle of cultural pressures surrounding body image and explore how our deepest self-worth is often unnecessarily tied to professional presentation.
Through personal stories of radical reinvention and self-acceptance, we prove that aging is a beautiful process filled with wisdom and growth. The discussion is a candid look at the complexities of long-term recovery, advocating for authenticity, vulnerability, and breaking the stigmas surrounding these experiences.
Tune in to learn how to embrace your age, own your story, and find strength in who you truly are.
Before we begin, a quick note. This podcast explores themes such as mental health, addiction, trauma, and recovery. Well, the stories here are honest and heartfelt. They're not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or medical paper. Please listen with care and pause anytime you need to. Take whatever resonates for you and leave the rest. Today's guest is Ann Taylor. Anne is a sage of wisdom that I have had the privilege of sharing space with for a few years now. I'm always aiming to be quiet and listen whenever people who have really shown up and been through many life lessons before me are around, and she is one of those people. In this episode, we get into embracing change as you age, transforming diversity into purpose, and how transitions can become opportunities for reinvention. I hope you enjoy the show. Anne, I'm so happy that you're here. The way that that we started with this conversation, why I wanted to talk to you, is because we were on a meeting not that long ago. And for all the times that we have been in conversation with each other, you sort of said something at the end of the meeting. And I was like, wait, no, let's talk more about that. Because we'd never talked about it before. And what you said was speaking to the concept of aging, specifically differently than you maybe learned growing up, and doing so much more empowered and more powerfully than um than I think we're taught society with. So I wanted to know what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think, especially now that I I raised two sons, but now I have two daughters-in-law. And I can see already and I hear them already talk about body image and aging, even though you're they're young. And it made me realize just how hard our culture is on us embracing who we are at every stage of life. And now that I am going to be turning 65, um I really want to change the way that I myself look at myself as an older woman and change the way the young women in my lives, including yourself, look at themselves in the aging process because it really is an amazing thing to age and to become wiser. And it's natural that the body is going to absorb that experience. And so I want everybody to wear it proudly.
SPEAKER_01:So what do you think? How has what does the past look like? What did you grow up learning that aging meant, or what do you think you're seeing out there right now that is not particularly helpful?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I grew up in a in an attractive family, and um looks were just way too important, you know, kind of that concept of as long as you look good on the outside, then everything must be okay on the inside. Ah and that that just isn't the case as we all learn as we move forward in life, that that that is not the case at all, and definitely not in my particular case. And so I want us to all put down the um need to have the world perceive us in a way that we don't really feel. And so my path to that is just a lot of hard work. I no longer there's there's too many important things going on in the world, there's too many things that I want to do in my life that I do not want the way I look to get in the way of. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm curious if you felt like that your value or your worth was held in the way that you looked at any point in time. Oh yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Absolutely. I I especially um early in my career, it mattered a lot because I worked in healthcare. I l worked with a lot of males in healthcare, and the way I presented myself absolutely mattered.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think you made different decisions about how you presented yourself in order to try to either gain an advantage somewhere or like move forward throughout the work space?
SPEAKER_00:No, because I ended up more in the nonprofit world. And thankfully it doesn't matter quite as much. But um, you know, we've made more progress in the last, I've been in my career for 37 years, and we've made more progress, women in the workplace, especially in healthcare, because women in healthcare uh it's become the norm. And so it doesn't matter quite as much. But I myself was aware that the way I presented myself did matter. I don't think I was somebody that did it on purpose. I didn't purposely dress myself in a way to attract or to move ahead, but I definitely looked the part in terms of whatever job I was doing.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think that you've passed that along, or do you think have you watched that, like you said, in your children's experience that they've picked up on that? Or do you think the world has changed a little bit since like time has passed and they've just gotten society?
SPEAKER_00:I'm not sure it was passed on to my sons. That would be a really interesting conversation to have with them. It's true. Um, it really would. Yeah. Uh they definitely they aren't as worried about the way they look uh at at all as I was, the way they dress, except when, you know, they're in a pr professional environment or whatever. Um I think we as a society have passed it along, and I've been part of that. Yeah. I have been part of that. They I I work in a very casual environment now, and I remember at first thinking, oh gosh, we don't people need to dress more professionally or whatever. I had a I had kind of a I call it the snob factor around it. Where we serve a population of people that don't have a lot. And so we like to meet our the people we serve where they are, and so we naturally dress and present ourselves in a more relatable way. And now I fully embrace it and love it.
SPEAKER_01:Um what if anything, what would you have done differently? Could you go backwards?
SPEAKER_00:I don't I don't think I would have conformed, but I say that, but I'm not sure that's really true because it was all it was required at that time to conform. But in my personal life, I absolutely would have done things differently. I have spent my adulthood um trying to be a certain size. You know, I've always colored my hair, which I'm no longer doing to be a particular color that I thought thought it needed to be. I wish I would have just embraced my essence from the very beginning rather than fighting against it, which is what I feel like I've done.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that you said that I had a, I remember when my mom, I don't remember how old she was when she did this, but she used to dye her hair regularly, right? To cover up the grays, so to speak. And there came a time in which I remember it was because she used to do it all the time. There came a time when she was like, I'm I'm done with this. And she let it go, right? And let it grow out. And to this day, just the most beautiful salt and pepper silver hair that I've ever seen naturally on someone that people people pay to have that done. And her hair was just doing it, you know, the way it grew out, and it changed over time and it got lighter. Even as I've gotten older, um, I used to dye my hair just for fun. And even now, there's one color that I do like to dye it occasionally, but I've I found it was maybe, I don't know, three or four years ago, I found silver in my hair. And I thought it was the most beautiful thing. And I felt like I'd earned my stripes somehow. And so I won't won't dye my hair because I like that. But it's not a popular conversation for sure in the world of like, you know, no, it's it's not.
SPEAKER_00:I'm you know, I'm growing my hair out now to be its natural color, which I had no idea what it was, right? Um, at all. And just going through the process of um growing your hair hair out to its natural color is a humbling process because it's not gonna look good for a while. Yeah. Right. And I think that's really good for us. Yeah. I think it's a really it's a it's an important process to go through because it takes a while. I mean, it's gonna take I've been working on it now for about six months. I've got at least probably another year because I have longer hair. And it's a really humbling process that that I really am enjoying because it's kind of let helping me let go of it all.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's really beautiful. In addition to like the physical part of your hair or body, whatnot, are there other parts of aging that you feel like have come along with that where you're also letting go of other things in addition to the physical part?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think naturally as we age, we care less about what people think of us. Yeah. You know, the what I find interesting is the pressure that I have felt the most over the last 10, 20 years is my own pressure, not other people's pressure, but my own. These expectations I have of myself. You know, for instance, I've always been very athletic. And and as you age, you know, you're just not able to keep up quite as much. And um, and right now I have a hip that needs to be replaced. So I have to sit around a lot. And instead of fighting against it, I'm trying really hard to just embrace it and know that my body has served me so beautifully throughout my life. I've given birth to two sons, I survived you know, a very bad accident that resulted in a traumatic brain injury, and my body has taken very good care of me, and now it's my turn to take care of it.
SPEAKER_01:That was really beautifully said. I hear that, and I I'm enjoying this so much because I'm in obviously like you know, a different decade of my life than you are, but having brought up in the society that tells you you should or shouldn't do something and watching, especially as I hit like milestone birthdays, I remember watching friends have a really hard time when people started turning 30. Yes, that that was like a they were not okay with that. And yeah, I think something that is a little bit different for me, and I know you'll understand this as a human in recovery. For me, I love birthdays. And that is because, again, for my life and the way it's gone the last several years, my life has gotten better as I've gotten older, right? And it wasn't always that that way, but the last handful of years, I love it because I like who I am, how I'm showing up for things, where I ask questions or challenge, like, do I have to do it this way just because everybody always did? But I've really enjoyed aging, but I've found that that is not always a popular conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yeah, I I think the wisdom that we gain can receive a lot of pushback. Yeah. Because when you no longer care as much what other people think of you, you just naturally speak your mind more. Um, and that's not always embraced or accepted. But also I just don't care as much about that. I'm I'm a very nice person. I don't offend people, you know, I when I say I don't care what people think, I don't care what they think about who I am as a person, but I'm a good person. But if I'm not always at a hundred percent, which is what we often expect of ourselves, I'm okay with that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, which is really interesting too. Perfectionism is another thing that I've run into in my own life many times, and having to like repractice the letting go of things when I've spent years trying to get everything right. It's just been really interesting to try to navigate and to undo the things that I've learned. Right. And like even you said what people think about me. Like there is, there's a select number of people that I care about what they think because I value an opinion where I write their view on the world, and I know that they'll, you know, call me on my shit, or they'll really show up and meet me where I am, which is really beautiful. But I think what you're saying generally, like I've let go of more than I used to, for sure, in terms of I'm gonna do this thing or say this thing, and just be okay, even if you are uncomfortable in what I just said. Right. And you do a really good job of that. It's one of the things I love about you. We talked about that not that long ago, was just being a person in the room that points out the thing or the elephant in the room, not as a as a bad thing, but just like, hey, are we gonna talk about this?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think that's the that's the age, you know, that's me being older with experience. And that is what I want everybody to embrace about themselves, because fine I finally do have some years to back up my experience, which then you know leads to a little bit of wisdom, a little bit of saginess that um I find myself sometimes, especially quite frankly, in the group that you and I got to know each other in. Sometimes I would find myself not wanting to say something because, you know, uh, how is it gonna be taken? But then it's also like, well, I have the right to say those things. I think you reach an age where you've kind of earned that right to express in whatever way that is helpful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, and I wonder, like, what was it just from being a person who at one point in time you would have been like the younger person in the room, right? Whether it's a work, whatever where you're the you're the new kid or you're the younger person there, to like growing into an age where you are the sage, you know, you are older than most of the people in whatever room you're in, in terms of, like you said, at work or whatever. Like I have this even, we were talking the other day, one of the girls that is on my team told me her birthday. And it was like, you know, I was like, you were born when? You know, like we're not even in the same, we're not even close, but it was just sort of shocking to hear the number. And yeah, you know, and I'm not, I mean, I'm 38. And so in the like, you know, wherever I am, she's like 22. I don't know. Um, but it was just I went from being where I was the new kid to now, you know, I have more wisdom, or people come to me for stuff, or I'm in charge of things. But it's like the room moves and it shifts, and I go from being the newcomer over time to suddenly it sort of happened and I wasn't looking. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It's so true. I have that happen all the time, Natanya, where I find out how old somebody is and I'm like, oh my God, I I can almost be their grandmother.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It was one thing to say, I can be, you know, I could be their mother. That applies to a a lot, but now I'm reaching the age where I could almost be a grandmother. Not quite, not to the ages at work, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What has been the hardest part of that for you?
SPEAKER_00:Of the age differences?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, of just changing over time and being in a space where it I think we go from my experience has been that I kind of looked around the room for a long time, and someone always knew more than I did or was older than me, whether it's an older sibling or a parent, like so you're following. And then at some point, I can remember being, I was my second degree was in an education. And so I was a teacher for a little a short amount of time. And I remember being in a classroom and someone came and knocked on the door and was looking for the teacher. And I looked around the room, like, because I it it took me a minute to realize that that was me, you know, because not that long ago I had been in college.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It went from being a college student to suddenly now I'm now I'm the person at the front of the room. And sort of the the mental shift that that takes from being like, I'm not following, I'm not following everybody anymore. Now I'm the person, and people looking for someone to speak or to say anything. And I would be like, don't look at me, you know, and now I found myself raising my hand and saying, I'll go first. Yeah. But I'm curious what that has been like for you, if you had a similar experience or not.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Um, I think through every decade I've had that experience where I'm kind of like, oh my gosh. I think right now it's especially in my face because there is an older group of us at my workplace, they're all retiring in the next year, a good majority of them. Well, I'm not going to be retiring for a while. And I'm kind of I can't believe that I could possibly be the literally the oldest person at the company. Yeah. Because I think the part, Natanya, that is the wildest is you just don't feel your age. I mean, I I cannot believe that I'm gonna be 65 because I still feel like in my mind I'm a I'm a 20-something, you know. I I still have spunk and I still um love to go to concerts and do all the things that I've always enjoyed doing. And I think we always think that at some point we're gonna sit down in a chair and not get up, type of thing. And I I just do not feel my age at all. At all. Mostly, and I think it's kind of funny, mostly emotionally and mentally, I just don't feel my age. Um I feel much younger.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. And I think it made me think of photographs that I've seen of like, I don't know, my grandparents at ages, and I feel like the age they are in the photograph, they look so much older. Mm-hmm. What people I think look like at those ages now. And I associate that with slowing down and all the things. And I hear you, because I like I don't feel that way about you either. You know, I don't, not even for a second. Um but I do think that like my mom had she retired this year. And she'll probably kill me for saying this on air, but she's she's 78. And like she just like she when 25 happened, I can remember friends of hers asking her, Oh, when are you gonna retire? And she's like, I'm I'm not. But she likes to work, she's a very engaged human in her life. I think she liked the place that she was at, right? And so she just kept going. And then and it's socialization for her. There's a lot of, you know, she just liked her job. And then after that last year's went on and she couldn't do the you know, 40 hours a week anymore. That company just worked really well with her in terms of like at one point she went down to three days a week and was that for a couple of years. I love that, you know, and then two, and then the last I don't know how many, but the last year or two, she's been down to one day a week. So she still went in one day a week and you know, got everything that she needed done and helped the other people and whatnot. And then finally this year, she's like, I think, I think I'm good. I love that. But it was what was interesting about it though, was that we had conversations around just peers of hers that maybe didn't understand her for doing that or sort of questioned or would continually bring it up, like, oh, so when are you gonna retire? Like waiting for her to to follow the status quo. And I think when she didn't, it made people uncomfortable sometimes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think I've had this battle of I'm kind of envious of my friends that are able to retire, you know, and travel and do all that. But then there's this other part of me that I don't I'll be I'll probably be like your mother. I can't imagine I'll either be working or just volunteering a ton. Because I can't imagine not having somewhere to go every day. That to me is just I can't imagine it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And like I said, she also enjoyed it. And you know, when she retired, one of the things that we talked about was socialization because she's, you know, some people I think are more extroverted and they go out in the world and join clubs and do this thing and do that thing. And she's always been very comfortable being by herself. She has always got projects and lists and things to do around the house, and she keeps herself busier than any person I've ever met. But and also like you still have to be around people so you don't just isolate. Right. Um, so that was another whole thing we talked about of like making sure how do you how do you take care of that, you know? Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, it's I mean, that's one of the biggest things. I I look at my mother, she's 94, and my dad just died five years ago, and she keeps herself incredibly busy and has a very sharp mind and everything. And I know that if she think about how her life could be without my dad, and that loneliness and isolation that you can so easily slip into as an older person, especially if you're if you don't aren't in a relationship, it can happen really easily. And it doesn't bode well for a for a healthy life. Have you ever talked to her about all this? My mom? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. What is her what are her thoughts on it? Just the kind of on aging?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, my mom has always been one of the most incredibly power positive people you'll ever meet. She just always has. She's just has this this outlook on life. She doesn't have she doesn't even have many fears. You know, I've always been this person that as a little girl, you know, I was afraid to fly, and and she just was like, oh, it's no big, you know, everything with her has always been um very positive. And so even with her aging, um she's sh, she's been okay with it because she's able to see that she's had this incredible life, and she and my dad were married for 65 years, and um, you know, she's just got a lot of of joy in her life. She's frustrated physically, that's the hardest part about the aging for somebody that at her age that has such a sharp mind. At 94, your body's just not going to keep up. It just, you know, it's it's hard. And so she's starting to lose her vision and uh her hearing, and and she's got limitations to some degree now, but but she she's got a really positive outlook on it, and part of that is she was an occupational therapist, and she worked with seniors her entire career. Okay. So she kind of has always been prepared for what's gonna happen or what could happen, and how to not let things happen, not let yourself deteriorate.
SPEAKER_01:So we'll go to the reverse for a second. What do you think your children feel about it? About me aging? Just about well, aging for themselves. Do you see them in the same kind of that you used to be?
SPEAKER_00:Or what well, yeah. My older son turned, he's 31 now, and so 30 was traumatic. And my younger son is gonna be 30 in December. And they're just, you know, oh my gosh, I'm turning 30. Is this where I thought I was gonna be? And so on and so forth. And so yeah, they're they're very much, they both were freaking out about the age of 30. Yeah. You know, and I can't say to them, I always hated it when I was freaking out, and people would say to me, Oh, you're a baby. So I don't say that to them, but I'm thinking it. I'm like, you know, my goodness, you've got so much ahead of you. And I think, Natanya, that's one of the most important things I've learned in the aging process is, you know, we're blessed to age. My sister died at the age of 54. Um, I'm blessed to still be here. And each decade, actually, I have found each decade to be more enjoyable. I love that. Because you really are coming into your own. You really do, I really do know who I am now. It's taken a long time, but I really know who I am. And I know for years I want I questioned that. Who am I? What am I supposed to you know? Yeah. I really And then go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:It's making me, I felt that way for a long time. I felt very floundering, and what do I want to do with my life? And I was I was frustrated with that because I'm like, I'm smart and I know things. Why do I feel so disconnected from everything? And a lot of choices that I made, not that many, you know, I think I was 32 when I got divorced. I had I had essentially like a midlife crisis. I was just 32, you know. Um, but it's one of the best things that's ever happened to me because somewhere in that like breaking of all of the things, when I lifted my head out of the ground and asked myself some of those really big questions, it was like, this isn't working. I sort of followed the playbook that I thought I was supposed to follow to go live this version of my life. And that that left me, you know, on a kitchen floor with a bottle of Jack Daniels and an Oracle deck. And I said, Well, now what? You know, and then I got up off the floor and got divorced, and then a couple years later, got Sober when all of those things in that journey was really challenging because it's not pretty, right? We'll go back to the part of what people see. It was really hard for me to stand in a room and say, I'm gonna end this thing because it's so not good for me. And I'm gonna break apart the very life that I just spent all of my years building. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And those experiences, you know, I I've never, to me, the whole concept of midlife crisis, it's not just one event. That's that's the biggest thing that I think we have to prepare ourselves for when we have the opportunity to age. We're gonna have so many of those experiences that wake us up and kind of redirect where we're going in our lives. You know, when I had a traumatic brain injury at the age of 52, 54, I can't remember, 52. Uh, I was running so fast. I was a single mom and I was working really hard and providing for my boys and trying to, you know, just all this stuff. I was running so hard and so fast that it was almost like that brain injury was inevitable and necessary because I had no choice but to completely stop and heal. And the brain injury is what led me into my art that I do and my meditation that I do. It completely transformed my life. And so I think that's the other thing that I hope as we all age that we don't fear what may happen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, and there's a there's a I mean, a great deal of surrender required. Like you said, especially if you had a if you had a TVI, and then that really, you know, sometimes I I'll tell people or I feel like I have the experience of if I'm ever doing what you said and like going too fast and not slowing down and not taking time for myself, I'll get sick and always think it's it's just like a sign that like you're not listening and you're not gonna slow down, so we're gonna slow you down. Um and I've I've thought that also with injuries, just just things like that, where like if if you don't course correct, sometimes the universe will do it for you. But it's so interesting that that ended up being like what birthed your art.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I you know, I feel the same way as you, Natanya, whenever I get those. I think you have to be open to the having the experience be perceived that way. That because I will go so hard, so hard. And my boys were even like, Mom, you needed that. And thankfully I survived it. Right. But um it was a divine experience because it comp it completely transformed how I how I operated in my life. Because I you you get on that treadmill and you don't even realize how fast you're running. Yeah. And and then you also don't know how to stop. You're afraid to stop. I can't stop because what if this happens, or what if that happens, and then it's done for you, and you have no choice but to face it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How long, how long of an experience was that from you, like from the time it happened until you would consider yourself to be recovered.
SPEAKER_00:Mostly recovered, probably a good six years. Oh wow, okay. TBIs are weird, and I I know that's not what this is about. We're go wherever you go. Yeah, TBIs are an a a weird thing because you know you're different, but you don't know how to explain to other people that you are. Like, um I I definitely struggle with attention deficit disorder now as a result of the brain injury because of where I was impacted. Uh but here's the thing because of my age and because I'm postmenopause, it also could be those factors. Okay. So I don't know if it's age, brain injury, you know, postmenopausal or all of them. You know, I I I have weird, well, one thing I do know is a result of the brain injury is I used to have beautiful handwriting and I don't anymore. It's like my brain and my hand work differently.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's the most tangible thing I can grab on to. But brain fatigue is a big thing. Like if I'm in too loud of a room for too long, like I love concerts, but I can never go to indoor concerts. I have they have to be outdoors. Otherwise, my brain can't process and it exhausts me. Things like that. That's that for the most part part, I'm you know, I'm recovered. Yeah. But there will always be the lingering things.
SPEAKER_01:Um, were there any other side effects of that whole experience? Like relationship? Yeah. Relationship, anything else that changed from that?
SPEAKER_00:I lost my sense of smell and and uh uh taste for a long time, and they said it was never going to come back, but it did, and I think that's because of the meditation that I did. I'm convinced of that. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. I was I was with my late ex-husband the day that it happened, and so he he and we were already divorced by that time, he was my knight in shining armor and made sure I was okay. And so that kind of was an experience that enriched our our relationship as parents to our kids. My boys were in their teens, and it was something that they just they struggled with very much to see their mom in the in the way that I was.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because I shuffled for a long, you know, for several months. I shuffled, I couldn't pick up my feet. Just weird stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah, there's a lot of problems with that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Man, I didn't know any of this about you. Oh, yeah. It's it's one of those things in life that most of the people in my life now truly didn't know me before the brain injury. So there's no way to see it really a difference. My boys noticed th differences in me. Yeah. But most people are they would they're like, I would never know that you'd had a brain injury. And it's like, well, no, because you know me now. Right. You didn't know me when I was like this, and you know, on the treadmill, just running as fast as I could and talked really fast and just kind of was not I'm calm now. Yeah. I'm calm, and I wasn't before.
SPEAKER_01:You're very steady, like just as in a room, which I've always found to be calming and relaxing. I'm curious, are you would you be up for me talking or asking you about recovery? Absolutely. Okay. I didn't know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:How long, how long have you been in and around recovery? Because I don't actually know.
SPEAKER_00:35 years.
SPEAKER_01:I thought it was a long time. Okay. Yeah. Um, what was that like for you 35 years ago to begin with? Again, back then, recovery wasn't as big of a word as it is now. Not as commonly talked about. There were not all of the, you know, programs and extracurriculars and activity, you know, just things and connections and places to gather. What was that like back then?
SPEAKER_00:Well, really, the only thing back then were the 12-step programs. Um I that I don't remember there being any other long. I was an intensive outpatient and did inpatient at one at one point for a brief stint. But in terms of the now there's just so many options, and there was none of that. And I'll never forget my first AA meeting. I walked in and and um I had a respectable job during the day. And so it was in 19, I think, eighty-seven or eighty-eight that I first walked in. You know, I'm in this one of my professional outfits for my job, and I walk into this room, and I'm by far the youngest, and I'm one of just maybe two or three women. Everybody's smoking like a chimney, drinking gallons of coffee, and I sit down and I'm like, my God, what am I doing here? I do not belong here. When I hear things like, I've spilled more than you ever drank, type of thing. And it's a ma it's a miracle I stayed. Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't get sober right away, but I have I've always been part of AA. It's still part of my life. Well, that's not true. I I went a long stint without doing anything, I just didn't drink, but it's always been a part of my life because I have no idea why I hung in there. Oh, that was my next question. Like, why did you say? I have well, I knew I knew time was up. I was a chronic drunk driver. Yeah. And my biggest fear was hurting somebody when I was drunk driving. I didn't care that much about me, but terrified I was gonna hurt somebody. And and I just became this person, you know, I was one person by day and a totally different personality by night. Uh-huh. Because I was always in blackouts. And the two worlds were starting to collide. I was no longer able to keep them separate. Yeah. And I, you know, I was losing, I was losing my my soul. You know, I've always said that addiction is a soul sickness to its very core. And my soul was so sick. And I somehow, but alcoholism was not present in our family at that time. I was the only one. So I was like, I'm such a loser. Look at me. I'm the only one in my family that is an alcoholic. Well, it that's not the way it's played out. Um, and there's others for sure that are in my family that are in recovery or not. And uh, but at the time I just thought, oh my God, I'm, you know, when I first came in, I was 27. I finally got sober at 29.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And um I just remember being focused. My grandmother was 98 years old when I was getting sober. And I remember being obsessed with the fact that if I lived as long as she did, I wouldn't be able to drink for 71 years. Yeah. But I kept going, even though I and and here's the thing: maybe I didn't look like anybody in that room because a lot of them were, you know, the stereotypical alcoholic of that time, but I related to how they felt and I related to their stories. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I know that feeling. Yeah. Um, I know the feeling from the first time I started, like when I walked into a room, I I actually didn't go. I was six months sober before I walked into a room of 12 step, and I had done it cold turkey, and then I had gotten hired in recovery while I was um I was two months sober, like terrible idea, whoever said yes to that. Helping people in recovery, and I was only two months sober. But they saw something because they stayed. Yes, they did, you know, but just the when I finally went, it was just because I had been working in recovery and going to social events, and so I was meeting people, and everyone around me was like, you should go to a meeting. And I was like, I don't really know that that's for me. And then one of my friends was like, You're gonna love it. Like, because I'm very analytical and I love psychology and why people do what they do. Literally, you're gonna love it. Just go, like, just suck it up. And I didn't want to go after work, like it was just laziness, and so I finally went one day and I was like, This is great. To and but but where I was going with that was to be in a room with people and go and hear people speak and be like, they're talking about me, right? He gets what I'm saying, she knows what I, you know, when they're saying things, and I'm like, that happens to me too. Or I felt that way too. And for many years, not having a place to voice that and thinking that I thought I was nuts for a long time because I was just like, no one else around me seems to have this problem. And I got I did the same thing of you in terms of it. I was a high functioning alcoholic for a long time and did it good. And then at some point it started to crash. And the two worlds, the world I was living externally, where you know, I had that facade going, and what I was actually doing inside of my life when the doors were closed, at some point came together and I couldn't uphold it anymore. And it was leaking out sideways, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And I it's the only place I can go and when I go to a meeting, I sit down and I just I can just breathe and be completely who I am. There are no uh no pressure to be anything but present in that very moment. And of course, the reward of being of service to others is so huge.
SPEAKER_01:So were you at the time of when you what were you doing for work then? Like were you working in the field that you work in now back then?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was working for the American Cancer Society.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:And um, and it's pretty funny now. It wasn't funny then, but I had a company car because I traveled to I was what was called a district rep, and I would go out and I would Sterling, for example, Sterling, Colorado. Well, Steamboat was part of my territory, you know, some remote areas, and I had this little company car, and it was American Cancer Society, and I'd roll down, you know, rotary rolled windows, I'd roll those down and smoke my cigarettes in the American Cancer Society car and drive around the state and get myself into some trouble because aspen was part of my territory. And um, and it was they would never let a young person, young woman travel like that now, like I did back then. But it was it was a crazy time because I, you know, even in that car of mine, you know, to be smoking cigarettes, and then about, you know, I'd get about 30 minutes outside of town and stop and pick up beer and drink it as I came into town and would plan ahead and have my friends, you know, where are you guys gonna all be tonight and go meet them at a bar? And the new, the whole different personality would would jump in, you know. It was just it was bizarre. And I I pulled, yeah, I pulled it off for a long time and I had respect in my in my job. And I would do these fundraising events in Aspen and Breckenridge, and we did one in Steamboat, and I was responsible for those, and I'd pull them off somehow. I just look back and I'm like, how did I how did I manage pull out?
SPEAKER_01:I also think that regularly. I was like, who let me out into the world?
unknown:I know.
SPEAKER_01:It's so true. Like, whose idea was that?
SPEAKER_00:It's so true. And then I had a mother's against drunk driving ribbon on my antenna of my car. Yeah. You know, just this whole deception of my trying to just, you know, deceive myself and deceive others that look at me, I'm so responsible.
SPEAKER_01:So at what point did that start to change where you went from being like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde to more of alignment with like the one person that you are and following that direction and changing careers? Like at what point did that shift or begin to shift? You mean before I got sober? Well, I mean, if even if it's after you got sober, like sometimes people get sober and still are living, you know, they'll hide their sobriety or that they're just, you know, they're still out of integrity. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, to be honest, I've never been very um open about my sobriety in the professional environment because I worked in healthcare and I worked with a lot of physicians, and there was there has always been such a bias, and it it still remains of addiction in the medical community, you know, still a perception of it being a weakness rather than the disease that it is. And so I've always been very quiet about it. So when I got sober, a year after I was sober, my late husband John and I met and we started dating. And by the time I had three years of sobriety, I was married and pregnant. Okay. And I didn't even take the time to figure out what sobriety looked like in my life because I was too busy now going, okay, now it's time for me to get all these things that I have put on hold because I was drinking, you know. Uh-huh. Now I gotta catch up to everybody else.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And so then um uh unfortunately, um John and I didn't make it, and I didn't do my I didn't do any kind of program or anything, and I just ran around crazy just trying to keep everything together and take care of the boys because being a mom was always very, very important to me, and being a good mom was really important to me. And at 19 years of sobriety or dryness, I I had a crisis of of everything, of faith, of um, you know, I almost drank and then I got back to AA, and that was when I really got serious about the work. And that's when I really started to discover who I was, outside of being a mother.
SPEAKER_01:Love that you said that though, of 19 years of dryness. Mm-hmm. Because that's I think not talked about as much as I would like to talk about it in terms of people that are in fact sober or clean, whatever. Um, and then we use the term dry drunk, right? And I've met many people like this, and I didn't really understand it until I was kind of in and around it, which is that like they're not using anything, but they're also still functioning in a lot of old wounds and not doing any work or not healing or not growing. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and that you can do that for years. Oh, I did, and it's awful. It's awful because I was very depressed, and um I I don't think my brother would mind me saying this at all. My brother's sober, and I remember him calling me, and he's he's not been around as long as I have, and he he called me and he said, Ann, why don't you get back to AA? Get back to some recovery program, and I said, Oh, my problems are too big for recovery. And I really believed that, uh-huh. That I am beyond aid. And then I got back to recovery and my everything started to change. I'll never forget it a meeting that I one of the first meetings I went to when I was newly back, and I happened to mention that I hadn't been drinking for 19 years, but I I must have sounded just pitiful because a guy came up to me that was relatively new and he said, if nine if that's what 19 years looks like, I don't want it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I hear you. No, I do because it's one of the reasons it's one of the reasons that the podcast I created exists. It's one of the reasons I've made different choices throughout the last several years, is because I got into recovery. And at the time, I got into it for survival. I was not going to make it if I didn't do something differently. And I needed that mindset at the beginning. And then something interesting happened, which is as I started to do work and lean in and things started to change, I, you know, dug out of the hole that I was in. If you think of the earth, like I was under, you know, in this giant, you know, trash hole and dug out of that to the point where I'm on steady the horizon, even keeled ground, right? And then I sort of looked around and was like, now what? Because it's like at a certain point when you've done all the steps and you know, given service in all these different places and been to therapy for all this different stuff, I started to look around and was like, well, I got into this for survival, right? I needed to do that. But now, like, now I'm here and I'm really interested in thriving, right? Right. And so what does that look like? And how do I take this? I gave myself a gift of a starting over and a new beginning. What do I want to do with that? And how do I create and build from here, right? If I was at a at the main level, how do I build? There's mountains in the distance. What do I want to create? What do I want to um lean into or grow or contribute towards in a way that keeps my heartbeat very much alive? Um, but those questions have plagued me in the best way of and I've watched, I've looked around rooms and seen people sort of they got to the even keel level, which is great, and then they kind of stayed there and I think clutched on to like this is what I have to keep doing. Um, and I I don't discredit that that's also valuable, but I have the question of and like and what? And then what else? You know, what else like the the ampersand symbol of like, and what else can I create from here to go build a life that is very much alive because that's really what I'm here for. But that's it's been such a beautiful space to be in, of but it started from watching what I didn't want. I I and was like, what am I staying sober for if that's it? You know, I I'm not interested in it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I found myself there after my kids left the nest. Okay, yeah. I was like, uh oh now, yeah, because that's not your purpose, right? Yes, my purpose was raising two good human beings, and I loved being a mom. And when I when the empty nest hit, I was not okay with it and lost. And it very much was of okay, what what now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm I'm still navigating that, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, so there's a question, I mean, what has the process for you been like of reinvention?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, I think the reinvention, you know, I agree with you. I think a lot of it has been watching people around me and seeing what I do and do not want. And just like embracing my age. I don't, I'm tired of watching women my age trying not to be our age. Uh yeah, trying to defy the aging process. I'm like, no. So my my reinvention has been a result of the brain injury, like I said, and embracing the fact that I am an artist, even though you know, people call me that, and I'm like, no, no, I'm not. I'm like, you can't call me an artist, but I am an artist. And I think it's embracing those, you know, I've always I've always had that imposter syndrome, and that is what I think has fueled my desire now to just be so authentically myself. I'm I'm not an imposter. I I truly do things. I'm an artist because I do art. It isn't because, you know, I sell my paintings for a million dollars, type of thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That is not what constitutes an artist. And so so much of it is truly embracing everything that I do and recognizing that I do a lot. You know, I I am a serious meditator. I am a I am an artist and I am I'm good at what I do with my job, and I'm a good mom, and I love my, I'm a good aunt, you know, just really owning it. I think that is the essence of reinventing yourself is owning who you are.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, and something I've said to I said to someone else not that long ago, because I ran into it, was like I run into the who am I to do this thing? Who am I to do that? Who am I to be that person? And you know, what qualitates, quantifies, whatever. What puts me in this of being able to do that? And I something I was reading at some point asked me the question, and so I had to ask someone else, like, who are you not to? Exactly. Almost like, how dare you not share gifts that you have and wisdom that you've learned when you could be helping people? What a disservice you're doing by not doing that. Like who are you to not go be great? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and then one other thing I wanted to say that you said earlier that I liked you brought up that in the healthcare field that being an addict or an addiction is a weakness or still seen as a weakness. And I when you said it, I had such a reaction, like in my body, and my first reaction was to stand on a chair and argue because I genuinely think that being an addict is one of my biggest strengths. Yes. And not the functionality of just being an addict, but being a person who has acknowledged that, accepted it, and made different choices to walk through it and look behind me at how did I get there and then stand where I am now and say, who do I want to become? And actually move through that is a hell of a deal. And it's just one of the things that I think has lent itself to who I have become, who I keep becoming. And it's so beautiful. And none of that would have happened if I wasn't an addict. And so I think there's so much signa around, you know, that you're a failure or you can't get your shit together, or you know, like a poison of what anybody will say about that in terms of stigma. It's something I just profoundly disagree with.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. And what I've learned about all of that is it's a when addiction is judged, it's because it's feared. Yeah. People that haven't been through it can't imagine going through it. Sure. And so they judge it. Yeah. And that, you know, now where I work now, everybody knows I'm sober. Yeah. You know, I I finally, I mean, I'm I'm all of that stuff is gone. All of that, oh, I can't share that I'm sober. I can't handle the judgment. Judge away. Yeah. You know, do what you need to do. Judge me.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm okay with that. Yeah. Um, I agree with you. I'm very much like this is who I am. I talk about it. I'm not big on preaching or telling other people what to do ever. Oh heck no. But definitely am I like it's just everybody knows that. And I talk about it. And what I've loved, one of my favorite parts of it has been speaking and just living it out loud. I don't necessarily talk about it all the time, but I just sort of live it and having people. I've had the most magical experiences with people that will find me on a random day in the corner of a room and be like, hey, can can we talk? And there are people that wouldn't have necessarily walked into a meeting or a room. But because I do what I do, and you can witness that. Something about that is an invitation to just tell the truth.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Letting go of all that shame. There's no shame in it at all.
SPEAKER_01:No, it really, but it's it was a process because there wasn't a beginning, right? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I had shame about it. Then there was relief when I found that there was people like me. Then at one point I had a I had an experience in a meeting where I I thought I wasn't bad enough. I was like almost the opposite judgment of like, man, these people are way worse than me. I should have done worse things.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yep. And that's where I talk a lot about the first step. That, you know, unfortunately, the second part of the first step being, and our lives had become unmanageable. We tie that to yet. We don't, we forget that just not being able to control our drinking is unmanageable enough. Yeah. Because that's why a lot of people, that's why I didn't stay sober, is I thought, I'm not bad enough. I need to go back out there and accumulate some things before I come back in here. And no, it's not necessary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it's I think I I get on tangent sometimes about being high functioning, because it's like if you are, if you can hold a job, you know, I didn't, I should have probably lost my last job from drinking, but I didn't. But if you can, you know, hold a job, you hold, you have whatever, a seat somewhere or history of of running things, or, you know, any kind of leadership seat, or depending on the area of work that you're in, being high functioning, being able to get shit done and do things, and also being a closet addict. Um, it's like like you said, there's a duality there that I think people don't see it as much because you're not showing it, but it's almost worse because it's like you're getting away with it and they're not being held accountable because everyone's like, What do you mean she's not like that? Yeah, you know, and that sort of vision of in my brain what an alcoholic was growing up was like a guy under a bridge with a bottle in a paper bag or something, and it's like I didn't look anything like that. Exactly. Um but it And now most people don't in in games. Right. Yeah. Um and it really can just be anybody. And I try to work on that too, because I think um you know, whether it's whether you're poor or wealthy or whatever, you get judgment from both sides. Even people I met somebody one time who was very wealthy, and you you can kind of people put judgment on that too, like, oh, well, you just have money so you can go to therapy and solve all this. And it's like I remember talking to him, and he was so broken from having parents who just like paid for him to do everything, but he just he's they threw money at him since he was little, but they weren't present, and there were so many other problems in there that like no matter which side of the train tracks that you're on or that you come from, there's different problems in both spaces, and they're all valid. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, this was the most beautiful thing. I'm so glad that you hopped on with me tonight. Yeah, this was fun. It was fun talking to you. I just love that I got to spend time getting a little bit more, you know, to know you than I have before. Yeah, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. So thank you so much for for joining me and I just absolutely your wisdom. Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. It means more than you know. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find the show. If you want more of me, head on over to nataniallison.com and enter your name and email for behind the scenes updates in between shows. New episodes air every Tuesday. We'll see you next week.