What I Didn't Know: Building the Life You Recovered For

EP17: Breaking the Cycle | Healing Generational Patterns and Ending Self-Betrayal with Leah Pryor

• Netanya Allyson • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Have you ever realized that the 'bag of rocks' you’ve been carrying doesn't even belong to you? 

In this reunion, Leah and I reflect on the two years since we met in Bali, diving into the raw and often difficult work of true personal healing. We pull back the curtain on how suppressed anger can hide behind sadness, sharing our own stories of walking away from careers in education and surviving marriages marked by trauma. It is a conversation about the moment you decide to stop betraying yourself and finally look at the emotional burdens you’ve been carrying for a lifetime. 

In this episode, we dig into: 

  • The Anger Trap: Why we often mistake rage for sadness and how to finally name what you’re feeling. 
  • Breaking Generational Patterns: How Leah used Family Constellation Therapy to uncover hidden family history and heal ancestral wounds. 
  • The Fear Compass: A simple framework to help you distinguish between a fear that suffocates your spirit and a fear that is actually inviting you to expand. 

We get specific about the tools that gave us our lives back, from the Hawaiian forgiveness practice of Ho'oponopono to the ancient Indian self-reflection game of Leela. I also get vulnerable about my own struggle with self-worth and the exhausting fear of being either "too much" or "never enough." From the physical release of water therapy to the quiet power of honoring your own "no," this episode is about the courage it takes to reclaim your voice and find the freedom that only comes through radical self-forgiveness. 

Because the hardest part of healing isn't just facing your past—it’s deciding to stop betraying yourself in the present.

SPEAKER_05:

This podcast is about those. It's about the twin points that change us. The things I wish someone had told me that I only understand about. Come on in, you belong here, and we're going to talk about all of it. I'm your host, Natanya, and this is what I didn't know. Before we begin, a quick note. This podcast explores themes such as mental health, addiction, trauma, and recovery. While the stories here are honest and heartfelt, they're not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or medical treatment. Please listen with care and pause anytime you need to. Take whatever resonates for you and leave the rest. Today's guest is Leah Pryor. Leah and I met on the other side of the world. We met in Bali when we were both traveling solo and ended up in the same place. We talk about that experience a little bit in this episode. And we also get into just the raw messiness of what true personal healing looks like. We dive into heavy emotional burdens that we inherit from our past and the courage that it takes to walk away from people and things that no longer serve you. If anything, I would say that this conversation is an invitation to stop betraying yourself and finally put down any weight that you've been carrying that is not yours to carry. So here we go.

SPEAKER_01:

And what else has been great because I've been listening to your podcast. When I saw, when you sent me, I believe you sent it to me through a message or you just posted about it. And I was like, fuck yes. Like I'm so happy that Natanya started a podcast. And I had only really known you for what, five days? Really six days, seven days in Bali. But our conversations were so potent and healing. And I can't see you doing anything else so like aligned for you. And then you're just serving this medicine to so many people. Blessed.

SPEAKER_05:

Um I love that. Thank you for saying that. And I we did. We had such good conversations for people that, and that whole the way that was all set up, just people from all over the world that found themselves in the same corner of Bali, all kind of soul searching and none of us knowing each other. And you and I, I think we're the only two from the US.

SPEAKER_01:

I think there was one other person. Was there? There were three, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But just like to be willing to show up and to, you know, the way it was set up where there's different activities, and sometimes we'd go jump off a waterfall. And then other days it's like we'd be in a group around a table with a bunch of cards and like inviting to talk about things. And essential oils.

SPEAKER_01:

Like what essential oil readings? Yeah. I still have my little like vial. I still have my vials. I still have my books. Sometimes I still reference them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I love that. Um, what brought you there at that time? Like what made you go there? Because I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01:

So I just want to add on too, there were so many ex-teachers or former public school educators in our group. That's true. And that was so aligned. And that basically is going to transition into why I was there. So I had been a public educator for five years, and I needed to leave. I needed to clean up my life, and I just did not feel aligned with the system anymore. I also wanted to go explore my other gifts and bring them to life. So I initially went to Bali to learn traditional Balinese massage. That's and there was a sound healing course attached to my 15-day program. So I did I did the traditional Balinese um massage um route. And yeah, that was that was the main reason why I went um to add to my bag of tools that I was building at the time to be a holistic practitioner. Um, but also I ended up, you know, healing so many different parts of myself or just uncovering different things that needed to be healed. You know, there's so many, so many layers to the ego, so many layers to forgiveness, so many layers to anger. And those all, all of those three main things really came to the light when I was in Bali.

SPEAKER_05:

I want to talk about that specifically. Let's start with anger.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Like, yeah, let's get into it. Um I guess what has that been like for you? Because I've had, you know, for many years, I didn't think I was angry. I was like, I'm good, you know, I don't need anything. I don't, you know, not that I didn't have stuff that had happened that I was had to work through periodically, but I really just thought I was a cheery individual, gen yeah, generally speaking. Um and I think when I started to sort of do an about face and address anger, like as a topic, what is it? What does it look like? Where do I find it in my body? Um, and sort of poke at it a little bit, I found that I actually had a lot of it. Um I'm curious what your experience was like with that for yourself. Hmm, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think I've just been exposed to deep anger since, you know, childhood being around my father. My father is a very, you know, just angry individual, harboring a lot. Um, when I've been in healing circles, especially family constellation therapy, which I can get more into if you'd like. I've seen him represented as someone who just he needed to get his anger out on a towel. And this person, when they took the towel, they were just screaming and crying and yeah, so I've been exposed to anger since I've was a child. You know, I rem I have vivid memories of my father dropping me off at school and having road rage and cursing teachers out, and the teachers looking at me like a poor child, you know? And then as I, you know, continued to grow up, I ended up being in a marriage with someone who was also harboring so much anger, um, a veteran of war on top of that deep trauma from his childhood. And there was a lot to be angry about. And I think as an empath, I soak in a lot of it. And yeah, I think I've held a lot of anger in my body during healing sessions, or even through media, various media. I really think when you're supposed to be aligned with certain books, certain movies, certain TV shows, it unlocks something within you too. People like you, yeah, you unlock something within me too. So the book that I'm currently reading right now is um Women Who Run with the Wolves. And I read the first chapter, and that chapter was about forgiving myself. And you know, there's so much anger that I harbor toward myself for sticking with sticking to marriage to this marriage for so long because that's what I thought I was supposed to do, right? I saw that with my mom and dad. And you know, so many other things that I harbor anger about in my in myself and my body. But after I read that first chapter, something wild happened in the evening. It unlocked something within my body. And luckily, my partner now he's he's a healer for sure. Um he's a massage therapist, but there's definitely something energetic happening there. And he was able to be present for me. And I intuitively was like just guiding his hands to where I needed things moved, to where I needed pressure. And it was it was a cathartic experience. Um But now coming back to our time in Bali together, I'd love to discuss our conversation when you asked me, you know, based I think on your own experience, um, are you sure you're sad? Are you sure it's not anger? And I was actually listening to your last uploaded podcast yesterday. I'm a fan. Um and you were talking to this man about your friend, I think your former roommate, about exactly what we're talking about right now. How you thought you were sad, or he thought he was just sad, right? Um, what came up was the anger. I am angry just from someone asking you that question, and that's what you did for me. You asked me in very like teacher language, you asked me to fill in a sentence frame, right? I am angry because and I just racked off 20 different things, bop, b, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. But what you did for me that was so healing was you introduced me to the hooponopono forgiveness mantra. And you said that you did this similar exercise, and after each thing that you wrote down that you were angry about, you actually said the ho'oponopono mantra each time for each one. And that's exactly what I did that night after we talked, and that was so profound for me.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Um I remember that, and that was a particularly emotive conversation. I think we were both feeling a lot in that in sitting with all of that. Yeah. And you know, hoopono pono for me has worked. And it's not some magical big thing. Um, there's different ways I've done it, right? But just like naming all the things, I think getting out of your body, I don't think we realize how much we carry. I didn't. I still don't, how much I'm walking around with, you know, from last week, let alone from a decade ago. And even stuff that isn't mine or that someone else gave to me or that I picked up from being a child. And I've gotten better at at what you're talking about, about naming the thing and letting it be okay that I am angry.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Acknowledgement is so powerful. Just simply acknowledging something.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, um even to be somewhat vulnerable in this moment. I had a experience not that long ago with a man in which I worked through it. A lot of wounding came up for me. I was sort of in an old pattern of habits and how I had been in around men um when I wanted them to pick me, right? Which is an old story from being a child. Um and I sat with it and worked through it. And I have never, I don't think I've ever confronted it as much as I just did. Like it was like a week ago. And um I worked all the way through it without getting into massive detail of it, but coming on the other side, I I realized I was still, even after as much as you know, things that I've done, that it really is a layer of an onion, right? You unpeel things and there's still more there. And I was still mad at me. I was still mad at me for times I had abandoned myself years ago. And like, even though I've been through therapy and I've talked about it and it's not new, I was just, I broke down. I was like, I'm I still haven't let that go. And I I need to do some forgiveness. And I haven't done it yet, right? In the moment of of talking about this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Um, because it's been a lot. But it's just the space of acknowledgement first that it's there. Um, that some of it's anger towards other people or situations that happened to me that were outside of my control. And then some of it has been internal that I'm still carrying, that I'm mad at me when I really didn't know any better. And I know that, right? But to still fully forgive it, I just I came up against it and I was like, that's still in there. We're gonna have to do it again.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And you get to a point too where you're just thankful. I'm thankful I get to do it again. I'm thankful it's coming up because this is something I don't want to harbor. Because I know it's going to affect me and everything that I do. It's going to affect my relationships. It's going to affect how I walk in the world. And you know, knowing our purpose, I think we want to be able to serve. We want to be able to love. We want to be able to be in joy. And so when these things come up, I think I've learned to also just be grateful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And I'm just I'm always gonna be in this. I'm always gonna be working on stuff. There's not a right or wrong, and I've gotten better at being like there you don't arrive. You don't just get there and be like, oh cool, I'm done. You know, and I just but what I came up against recently was I knew it was a big boulder, right? It was one of the I think there's, you know, if we if we reference that all of us have been carrying a bag of rocks around for many years. And I think at a certain point, I know I did, and you also did, sort of chose to turn around and open the bag and look in it and be like, okay. And then one by one, like take them out, acknowledge it, work through it, and like, you know, get rid of some of the stuff that you didn't want to carry anymore. And um, sometimes some of them require you to go back in several times. And it was one that, like, for me, relationships with men have just been a really long pattern of of things that I needed to unlearn and to try to break my own habits around. Um, and all of them were disempowering, like the way I was showing up for for those things. And I'm such a I identify at this point as being a very powerful woman. And I mean that. But then to sort of thank you. And to witness myself show up in ways that are disempowering or out of alignment with who I actually am. And then to understand that to give myself grace, to know that this is a really big wound, and we don't have to stay here. And it's okay that you tripped and sort of went down the same road again because you're learning and we're getting better. But it was just this particular one, I really I sort of had a fork in the road and I can go left or go right. And I was very honest about those two roads, and I chose the better road. I did, and I was so proud of it that I was like sobbing by the time I was done because I was like, that's that's the me that I really am. But it took me a really long time to make that choice in the face of what was pulling me so greatly into an old pattern. You know, they say like if you ever think of the like on a mountain, like a stream that goes down the mountain, it sort of goes down in the same direction over and over again for years. So it digs a really big dividend. So it goes the same exact route all the way down. And so to change that, right? Like to change the neurons in your brain and to override that when you've been doing it for decades is very difficult.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And so, but in that moment, I was I did it. And I was sobbing because I was so proud of myself. And it was really hard. And sometimes, like I had to cause some pain in a conversation with someone that was very difficult. Um and I had to face me and the child version of me. And so all of that, like I said, this is a very vulnerable for me to say all of this right now. I'm very much still in it, but that's what I'm here for. Yes. And it doesn't mean I'm gonna go into everything all the time, but I'm I'm far enough away from it that I feel like I can talk about it. And you're one of those people that I know can hold all of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. Because we're this is a reflection, right? It's a mirror. I feel you. I feel you deeply with that. And, you know, I honor you in your process.

SPEAKER_05:

But it's there's there's some forgiveness in there that I haven't done quite yet that I will get to.

SPEAKER_01:

Um and maybe even coming back to the you know, to the to what you showed me. And I think we've said the whole ponopon mantra, but we haven't actually said what it is. Yes, but you explain it. Yeah, so it's literally just four sentences and you can either sing it, you can chant it. Um there's videos on YouTube that play it 108 times that holy number. Um, but it's these four sentences. I'm sorry, please forgive me. I love you, thank you. Repeating that over and over again. Or however long you feel like you need to. And I know we didn't get to integrate our Leela game because you literally had to get on a plane, I believe, early that morning. And so for everybody that's listening, Leela is an ancient Indian game, the country of India. Um, and if you could just visualize a game board, right? And it looks like shoots and ladders, but instead of the shoots, their snakes bring you down, and instead of ladders, there um there are arrows bringing you up, right? And then every single row represents a different chakra. So your root chakra all the way up to the eighth chakra, which I didn't even know there was an eighth chakra. But basically, when you get to the eighth chakra, you win the game, and there's no competition, it's you just playing against yourself based on your own intention. I don't think I got to tell you this, Natanya, but um, I believe there were like six of us playing, and there was a facilitator. Um, big love to Mira. I forgot her name, but then I came back to this and I battled. Um powerful, powerful Lithuanian woman who's also a sound healing teacher. She guided us through. Whole process, but there were six of us playing, and I had a big ol' ego, and I was like, I'm gonna finish this game in like one hour. I'm gonna be done faster than everybody else. And guess what the fuck happened? I was the last person, the last person to finish that game from 10 a.m. to midnight. I played that game for about 10 hours, like including breaks. Yeah. Um, but I initially I through my reflection, I didn't stick to my initial intention. In fact, I think my intention, I wrote it down here in my journal, it was um, what do I need to shed and learn to receive and align with my divine love partnership? What do I need to what do I need to shed and learn? And I did not stick to that intention in my heart. I I wanted to like move into my career and what I want to do with my purpose, right? And that was just easier to focus on in front of five other people than dealing with my own ego and my issues with jealousy and comparison, right? But that's that was my intention and that's what I needed to stick to. And I think there were two other women where I coming back to my big old ego, there were two other women there, and I was like, they're gonna finish last because they got shit to work on, right? And they were the first ones to finish. I was so pissed, and um, yeah, so even the person who finished second to last, I was like, wow, by the time she was finishing, I was on the ego square, almost at the very top to the eighth chakra. And then I got sent down with a snake down to the down to the anger square, right? But then what started to turn things around for me was forgiveness. So coming back to our discussion about forgiveness, um, Mira, the facilitator, she um yeah, she was she once again reinforced the whole buono buono mantra for me. And once I once I chanted with a song, the song version of the mantra, I started moving up. I started moving up and I finally made it to the eighth chakra um at midnight. But during the song, I was closing my eyes and I was visualizing the men in my life that had hurt me, that I had probably hurt as well, that I had hurt as well, whether in this lifetime or past lifetimes, because that's what I'm also learning, is that we're working through a lot of karma from you know things that we've done in past lives to people that are in our lives now. That's something that was completely new to me that I've been learning actually as of recent. But when I was what I was visualizing was my masculine side, my ex-husband, and my dad. And that was, you know, something very new for me. So that was just like you mentioned, the onion earlier, the first layer of the onion starting for me. I envisioned them in the in an orange and yellow light while chanting the mantra as well. And yeah, once I once I made it to the eighth chakra, I was like, okay, now I can remember this as many times as I need to. This is what I am gonna be able to come back to. That forgiveness is literally the key. Forgiveness is literally the key. And has it was that one and done? Of course not. I've come back to it over and over and over again, especially with forgiving myself. I've been um, I just moved to Oregon about five months ago. Got it. And I've aligned with some amazing people out here. Um, and I believe that when the student is ready, the teacher appears, right? Definitely believe that. Um, and I've been attending a Dow meditation circle, and I'll be honest, there's some parts of it that feel a little culty, right? But, you know, you learn how to use your sifter and you take what works for you. And what has been working so well for me have been these forgiveness prayers. Um, and that's what I mentioned earlier. Um, this new knowing that you're working through forgiveness of what you've done in past lives to others. And that's what these forgiveness prayers honor. Um what you've done, what they've done to you, what what their ancestors have done to you, what your ancestors have what your ancestors have done to them. And it just feels like it feels similar to family constellation therapy in the sense where it's just from from the past all the way to the present, all the way to the future. It's um just so profound what the effect is, right? A ripple effect um is just huge with these prayers. Um, I've been singing another mantra that I'd actually like to share as well. Um I'll go ahead and sing it three times. Um, and I based on what she said earlier, um, I hope that this will also be medicine for you too. Um with what you're working through. So if you're driving, please don't close your eyes. Um, but just take a deep rounding breath. If you are in a place where you can't close your eyes, please do so.

SPEAKER_00:

I deeply apologize. I forgive. Please forgive me love, peace, and harmony. I deeply apologize. I forgive me, please forgive me love, peace and harmony I deeply apologize. I forgive you please forgive me. Bring me love, peace and harmony.

SPEAKER_03:

That was really beautiful.

SPEAKER_05:

For those of you that are listening, I'm I have tears. Um I think like like to kind of echo something I said earlier, but it was just more prominent, and I was feeling when you were singing. Um I carry a lot. And I think, you know, the route that my life took me, I didn't know how to handle a lot of the pain, a lot of things that I've been carrying. Um, my personal journey in that was to lean into substance abuse for many years. Um and I'm very open about that because I'm not ashamed of it. Like it's I didn't know what to do, and that provided relief for a time. And then I had to unlearn that and find better ways to process and heal and work through things. Um a lot of that is willingness to go into the things, willingness to surrender to some of those things that have been a part of my identity that I've carried. One of the things I think the line of that song that was like hitting me harder was was literally just the words, I forgive you. Yeah. And I saw I saw people. I saw people in my past. I saw me. Um and it gets I get really emotional with that because you don't um I think I care so much. You know, and one of the reasons I have a hard time forgiving myself is because of that. Is because I really give a shit about who I am, about how I've affected or hurt or harmed people, knowingly or unknowingly. And I really care about changing and breaking those things in myself as a service, as a way to go for like I always will raise my hand and be like, I'll go first to give permission to other people to do the same thing. And all of that stuff that you have been carrying that I have been carrying, we don't need to carry that anymore. But it's such a process, and I think, you know, similar to like you wanting to, you know, finish the Leela game, you know, on top and in first. Yep. We all do that, and the ego gets in the way for sure that I think I know more, I'm better more, right? You'll hear people that have like, I've done so much work, yeah. Like that that somehow makes you better. It doesn't, like it is true.

SPEAKER_01:

We're the people that say, I don't have an ego anymore. I had an 18-year-old um teenage boy say that to me a few weeks ago, and I was like, oh, okay, let's have a little chat. Have a little chat, sir.

SPEAKER_05:

Or that like one I was talking about, or I was thinking about earlier was being afraid. There's, you know, miss terrible quotes about things, one of them being like um like being fearless. And it's like, I am afraid. I am always afraid. I will be afraid for the rest of my life. And I'm gonna keep leaning in and saying yes and doing the things anyway. But like the the fact that you can just like be fearless or somehow overcome that you you don't have that affect you anymore. Like I'm a person, I have a heart and emotion, and I feel things and people, I am affected, you know, and sometimes it's like it's about choices. I do, I am afraid of this thing, whatever it is, and I'm gonna lean into it anyway. And I'm not sure where that's gonna take me. Right. But having enough, I think, trust in yourself. Yes, and in your support systems and the people that you need that can that can hold that, that like I can do this, even if it's hard.

SPEAKER_01:

And knowing when it's time to do it, afraid too, because sometimes, you know, you want to do something when you're afraid and it's just not the right time yet.

SPEAKER_05:

And yes, you yeah, yeah, you were a great yes, because you were such a great example because it was about reminding, tell me if I'm wrong if my memory is, because this is I didn't write this, this is just memory from a couple years ago. But we had been talking about being brave and doing things and coming to the edge and being ready for something. And the particular day, was it the water? It was the water. The dolphins? It was it the dolphin trip? It was the waterfall.

SPEAKER_01:

It was the it was the um deep water, it was the dolphin trip. I was so scared to get into the water. Um, and to give everybody a little bit of uh, you know, an idea of the setting, we were going to um this feels awkward to say, but like literally chase dolphins. It's literally what our boats were doing. This, you know, fun little dolphin trip, but we were literally just following them and chasing them around. And this boat had these like side panels where you could jump in and you can hold on, and you're basically floating, you know, on the water as the as the boat is um going. And I just was so terrified to get into the water, and it's just so weird because it felt so weird to me at the time because I've done that before. I've gone I've gone um snorkeling in very deep water in the Philippines, um, no supports, right? But this time I was just so afraid, and I think it was because I had a dream prior to going to Bali of being in that exact situation and a creature coming up and wrapping itself around my leg. And so, but even in the dream, it wasn't anything terrifying, it wasn't anything dangerous. But at that moment, I just needed to listen to my body. Like I got into the water and I literally started feeling like I was having a panic, panic attack. It was not anything that was um being blown out of proportion. Like I've I haven't had that feeling before, and I knew I needed to get back in and I needed to give myself grace. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I loved, I have thought about and talked about that story multiple times because, you know, especially in any kind of healing work, you are encouraged to lean in and take risks and push yourself, and all of that's valid, right? And that's that is how we get through things. And caveat. Um sometimes, like it's just sometimes the answer is it's not today.

SPEAKER_01:

It's not today.

SPEAKER_05:

And sometimes the answer is no, right? And there's not a but I remember writing about that specific thing that like sometimes you do go to the edge, sometimes you sit back and go, not today. And sometimes the answer is like, I'm I'm not gonna do this. And whether that's that was such a good physical example because you were in the water sort of hyperventilating. And I just remember you coming back out of the water and like just taking a minute to re recalibrate your own body. And so it was such a physical example of a metaphorical concept of when and where do you push yourself to the edge and say, and when and and you're the only person a lot of times that can answer that question. And it's my other example of that was a different trip that we went on was to the waterfall.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And I jumped off the waterfall. I had never done that before. I was nervous as shit, but I I just I wanted to say that I did it. And I did, but not that much longer. We like we all had gotten in the water and went swimming, and there's sort of a lagoon, and you find your way around, and there was another waterfall that was like 20 feet higher than the first one. And people were that too.

unknown:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But the other waterfall, um, people were jumping off of that one, and I was like, nope.

SPEAKER_01:

The one that was um 10 meters high. You don't even know what the conversion is, and I don't either. It was I remember the woman from Germany, yeah, badass woman. So sweet, so loving. She was like, it's only 10 meters high. I was like, yeah, nah.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, and like what when I was but like having done the first one, I was good. Like, and and no part of me wanted to go back or go off that second one. And other people were doing it, which is great. But I was just like, that was a not today and not ever that I don't want to do that. That's not for me, you know. And just to be in a space where knowing and learning what are your edges, right? Again, and I will be, I'm purposely sort of translating physical stuff, things that you're doing. Can you quit your job? Can you end this relationship? Do you want to move states? You know, stuff that's actually tangible stuff. And then metaphorical in your brain, what do you need to overcome? Where do you need to stop playing small? You know, where do you need to forgive something that's really hard? Um, and where are you just like, no, I'm I'm not gonna do that? Yeah, um, it's not for me.

SPEAKER_01:

And where you also need to heal yourself and acknowledge where other people's opinions and other people's standards have affected you because I think what needed to heal at that time was my my ex-husband's standards of me. He was always like trying to push me, push me, push me to do things that I just was not ready for. And to a certain extent, I am thankful to him. I do want to show gratitude to him for pushing me a little bit out of my comfort zone. But coming back to, you know, teacher lingo, that zone of proximal development, right? There's that area that's just perfect for your growth, but there's an area completely outside of it where you're just like, no, I'm not ready for that. And that's okay. And if that doesn't meet what you're looking for in me, does that even matter? It's how I feel about myself. And if anything, the way you're trying to push me is due to something, you know, that you're also dealing with what you're in inside of you. And you're project, and that may be a projection on me. So I think at that moment, with being in the water, that's what needed to be healed. Um uh and I did end up being in that zone of proximal development because I went down that epic water slide, like natural water slide that was a waterfall. And I actually have a video that I think you recorded, and I could hear you in the background after I made it into the water, and you're like, beautiful. It was so much fun. And I did it, you know, I did it scared, I was scared, and I did it anyway, and I felt I felt so free and good afterward. And that's when you know, that's when you know, like when you have the feeling of, you know, not having an anxiety attack like I did before, right? When you feel just like a lotus blooming.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I think I've gotten a little bit better at, you know, someone once explained fear to me and like fear can either be, and again, this may or may not be true, but I liked the idea of it. Fear can either be like to feel into it. Is it restrictive and like closing you off and choking you and suffocating you? Is it that kind of fear? Um, which usually I'm a no for if something's gonna suffocate me in any way? Or is it expansive? Is it like I'm I'm I'm not sure I can go this far, but like it would be good for me, or I'm gonna learn, or I'm gonna grow, and I'm gonna change. And I'm sort of edging the unknown of something that's new. Um and so whenever I'm in seats like that, I will listen, I will sort of ask that question like which type of fear is it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Um, because sometimes you're just afraid and you can't tell. I don't know. I'm just scared, you know? And so identifying which way is it helps me know how to respond. Be like, oh, this feels suffocative. I'm gonna back out.

SPEAKER_01:

Whereas knowing, I, you know, I feel like this is something that will expand me. Like you said, like leaving a job, like moving, right? Those are all these things that we have done. And I definitely feel like we have expanded as a result of that and continue to expand. So yeah, thank you for making that distinction. That's something I'm gonna write down and take with me.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, and I love that you're I love that this is like sort of unintentionally that we kind of got into relationships about men as well. Because I haven't, I haven't really talked about that that much in the show at this point. And it's really useful. Like I'm like I said, I've not only have I had to do a lot of work around it, but um, you know, past serious relationships or like large relationships, whether they're father figures, just men who have been in my life, familial friendships, and then romantic relationships have challenged me a lot. And and that's of course to be expected. But I think as you're growing up, you know, I think when you're young, you sort of look to people who are older than you for guidance, like the way to go. This is what they're doing. So this is how I'm trying to be. And so when you enter into different sort of partnerships with people, you don't know what you don't know. And I had to learn a lot through being in those seats with people. And um, you know, one of the things I didn't know for a long time. So, so I'm gonna generalize this without getting into specifics. Um, but large-scale relationships of men across my life, generally speaking, have either done one of three things. One was um like didn't like where I was going or who I was gonna become. And so they exited the picture because um they were in disagreement with how I was choosing to be or who I was choosing to become. So that's one. They left. Two is they couldn't handle who I was gonna try to become, and so they tried to hold me back. And some of this consciously, some of it subconsciously, but sort of the like trying to keep me small. And three was there was a person who I think adored me greatly and very much wanted to lift me up, but couldn't come with me. And so again, that's just my personal experience, but sort of being in all of these seats, what unintentionally happened is that I looked in the mirror and said, What's wrong with me?

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05:

Every time. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Um and thought that I'm I'm always either too much or not enough. Like, depending on the scenario. Um, and then I think part of me took on their fears without realizing it and sort of told myself stories about who I could or couldn't be. All the stories. Um, yeah. Instead of, I think it took me a minute. And when I say a minute, I mean years, right? Yeah to to work through a lot of that and take enough space to ask myself what I thought.

SPEAKER_01:

And obviously you have taken some, you know, a beautiful, profound amount of time because the fact that you're able to distinguish all three, you know, and it doesn't, it didn't sound like you were coming from a place of, you know, there's a lack within me, or that it was all my fault. It was just looking at these situations as a matter of fact, right? And that takes so much work to be able to get to that spot and shed, you know, the feelings of it's all me, me, me, me, me. Because, you know, I definitely once again reflect back at you. I feel the same, especially in regard to not being enough, right? Not being enough.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, and to be able to say that, and I I genuinely don't feel in this moment like attack or anger or resentment towards any of them. It's just, I did at different times, absolutely, right? And I had to go through that. But in the seat I currently, you know, sit in, it's very observational of just like, oh, this is how this story went.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And this is where I made it mean things it didn't, and then I changed my behavior to fit what I thought I was supposed to be. But really, I think I want to emphasize this because I love it so much.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And it's that question of what do you think? Right. I think we spend so much time in what other people think of us. And like even today, there's a lot of people I genuinely, I genuinely don't care what they think, right? And it's just sort of noise, and it doesn't mean they're bad people. I just, I'm not that interested because they don't have anything I want, right? Or they're not super close to me. But anyone who tells you they don't care what anyone thinks is full of shit, right? There are people that I care. But for those specific people, right? Whoever it is, it's your close friends or family, your mentors, um partnerships, children, you know, anyone like that that's in that that close sphere, do you I do care what they think? But I had to sort of even separate from your tribe, the people I love and care and respect the most, just be like, I see you. I I hear what you think of me in my life, and I got it. Right. And that's good. What do I think?

SPEAKER_01:

What do I think? And when do we even start asking that question, you know? Yeah. I I I I set the intention, I pray that we can actually like have the youth start asking themselves that at a very early age. And I think that's how we also just develop our intuition, right? I don't think I've ever had anyone truly ask me, like, well, what do you think about that? What do you think about that? You know, what do you think about how that person's treating you? Unless you're in therapy, right? But how powerful would that be for us to do it for ourselves at a young age to plant those seeds?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm gonna ask you, what do you think of you? At this time of my life, if you asked me this question two years ago, I probably would have been like, oh. I'm still working on that.

SPEAKER_03:

Um I believe that I am I'm brave.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm very, very fucking brave. To take on and choose this life. I have been very brave. Um I think that um to make it on the other side of you know, so many things that I've been through, especially, you know, a deeply challenging childhood and being you know, the marriage, the whatever, right? I f I f I find myself to be pretty miraculous too. Because I could have taken a very, very different route at a young age. Um I think I I I'm also very just proud of myself for learning how to surrender. Um surrendering, like active surrender, not just laying back and you know, lazy river, right? Well, lazy river could be a great thing too, depending on how you view it, but I um I'm very proud of myself for learning how to surrender, knowing learning to develop my intuition, knowing when things needed to end, finally learning how to do that, and then repeatedly doing it over and over again to clean up my life.

SPEAKER_03:

And um yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, there's so much more to say, but I think in and I think those three things kind of just umbrella everything that I everything else that I think of myself. Um Yeah, I can I can say now that I I truly love the person, the woman that I've become. I love the soul within. Um I I l love the way that I treat others, how I empower. Um and everything else that I'm growing into is at this very moment, you know. I'm I'm in a big transitional stage yet again. You know, and so the best thing I can do at this time for me is to just continue to surrender, continue to forgive, um, continue to check my ego. Yeah. Yeah. That was really beautiful. And I thank you. Thank you so much, Natanya.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm curious about something. Yeah you said, because I think this too, but I've just you said it, and so I want to repeat it. Knowing when things needed to end.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I love that. It's something I pride myself on as well. And I am curious how you know, like if you were to explain that to someone, and there's not a right or wrong way, because some of my answers are intuitive.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, but how do you know when something needs to end, when it's time to go? I think in matters of a relationship, when you have tried, you know, multiple ways to heal, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Multiple ways to heal your connection with the other person, multiple ways to heal yourself. And you just you just know like we are out of alignment. I cannot do this anymore. And if I continue to do this, I'm betraying myself. Again, um, that takes a lot of work, of course, but that was my that was my exit out. And um I had been with this person since I was 15 years old, so it took me a long, long time. But once I did that thing, it it's it stuck with me and then it continued on to into my career. Um, I knew it was time to leave that when going back to what you were saying about um the distinction between in in fear, right? The asphyxiation versus is is this gonna expand me? Okay. I wasn't afraid of my job, but I felt like I was being asphyxiated. I felt like I was trying to reach out for resource after resource after resource to help these kids, right? In a system that says, um, you know, they they want to be inclusive and welcome in all children into the classroom space, but they didn't provide any of the um necessary resources to support all the kids in the class. So being alone, right? And you're just reaching out trying to advocate for these kids and you're not you're not receiving it. You're not receiving the reciprocation. I knew it was time to to move on. And I knew if I continued, um, I would no longer be in service the way that I was supposed to be in service.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I would have gotten resentful, even more so than I already was, and then I would probably just be causing I would be probably um just ineffective, ineffective as an educator. And maybe even hurting some of these kids, not physically, but like in their own. Staying is a disservice. Staying is a disservice, yes. And I knew I needed to serve in other ways. And that's you know what led me to Bali, to learning how to heal, right? And how to provide healing for others. So it's like I I think that also sits well when you ask me when I know it's time to leave. It's like when you feel something else calling you, when you have that intuition and you're like, hey, it's time. You're needed somewhere else, no matter how scary it is, right? Do I have the money that I used to? No. But look where I'm at. You know, I'm I'm I'm I'm living in the forest, right? I'm so close to nature. I have deer and turkeys in my neighborhood. I'm living with a partner that um I just love so much. A pr a partner that I truly prayed for. And my family's healing in a lot of profound ways. When you start doing the work, it really does permeate out to your lineage and so many more, so much more, right? Um, when we heal, the collective heals. I truly believe that.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. I've seen it. And I'm curious, in the same, in the same token of how do you know when it's time to leave? Like as in to exit something, how do you know when it's time to jump, when it's time to say yes? How do you know when that's a thing for you?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go back into what I was saying about when it's time to leave. I'm gonna take something out of there that I said, when you feel the call. Truly, when you just whether it's you know a synchronicity, right? You get signs, you wake up in the morning and you just start thinking about you know something super random. Like, for me, what I'm going through right now in my life is I'm I I try to come back to teaching out here, right? Because it's, you know, something I got my degree in, you know, it's security, right? Um, I had also after leaving the public school classroom, um, I ended up private tutoring a lot of different kids, kind of just snowballed. So I got to see like my former kindergartners um through first and second grade, which was really special. So I took some of that here virtually, but you know, teaching online isn't the best for all children, of course. Um, and then I've been doing some homeschool um workout here too, and also subbing. But then once I got into the classroom, I was like, man. Okay, so sometimes we do things that we have been comfortable doing before because we really need to know when it's time to fully close the door. Yeah. So at this time, I feel like I'm fully, you know, also slowly closing that door completely. And um yeah, now I just feel like I'm starting to want to jump more into different modalities of healing. Again, learning more about um like cranial sacral therapy. Yeah, yeah. Um, learning possibly facilitating family constellation therapy for the youth. I didn't even know that was a thing until um a facilitator in a constellation group I went to out here, one of the best days of my life. Um, she told me about this. So I do want to continue to work with the youth, but in a different capacity and one that aligns with what is needed right now nowadays.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, and I wanna um offer you this. I'm sure you've already thought of it because you sounded like you were about to go on that tangent anyway. Um, and then I have a question. Yeah, but I now know that I am through and through and will always be for the rest of my life a teacher.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I I can't avoid it. It talks to me, it comes out of me in a restaurant, it comes out of me at a gas station. Like I can't, it's just always there. I love it. And I also learned, similar to what you're experiencing, that I don't function well. I don't that the way that that unfolds for me in the best version of me is not in the public school system of America. Thank you for being in the mirror for saying that. That's exactly what I've been thinking. Pretty much. Like you don't have to give it up at all or ever. It's just that the modality, the medium, the form of it, you might have to either make up your own completely, like a different way of doing this. Um, or just tell a whole new story about what that looks like for you. And you're you're literally right now in the context of what we're doing, you're in my classroom. Like this is something that I created to be a co-creative experience. Um, because I don't think that teaching is a dictatorship. I think it's a conversation. And so I get to, I will always be a teacher and a student forever. I love them both equally. I'm passionate about both. Um, I have gifts in both, and I just I think it's beautiful. And I don't, I don't know that you're any different. It's just about sort of that question of what does this look like for me? Because you care about it, because you're good at it. That you have so much passion there. And maybe, maybe it looks a way that hasn't been created yet because you haven't gotten to that. But like, by no means do you have to close the door of teaching to just maybe close the way in which that that maybe like I'm not gonna do that in this way anymore. What do we got over here? You know? And so that leads me to my question, which is what is family constellation therapy? And because you mentioned it, I and I don't remember. You told me back then, and it's it's been a long time. So please educate me and anyone listening for just what is it and why has it helped you? Why do you care about it?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so family constellation therapy works with the knowing field or the memory field, which I believe is associated with quantum physics. But basically, when you are in a family constellation circle, for example, if I wanted to open one up for myself like I have before, to with the intention of understanding my father, understanding my mother, why they are the way that they are, and why we have the relationship that we do. And then after I share that with the facilitator, they have me pick certain people in the circle to represent as me, as my father. As my mother, whoever you want to bring in, usually you start off with maybe one or two people. And those people that represent, they don't really they don't know the context. Sometimes they go in blind, they don't even know who they're representing as. But when you are representing, which I've done many times, you feel that the force is pulling you in certain directions. You may feel like laying down. You may see something in the room that just resonates with how you're feeling. Like, for example, last week I was looking down at a rug and I there was a print on the rug that looked like a volcano to me. And I felt inside like I was getting ready to blow up emotionally. And then I shared that with the facilitator. The facilitator brought an ancestor, someone to represent as an ancestor for me. They put their hands on my back and I knew I needed pressure. So like somatics involved, right? I needed pressure on me. So as soon as they pressed down, I had a cathartic experience representing as someone's mother, screaming, crying, releasing. Okay. And then as certain things begin to happen, right? The story is unfolding. Reasons for why things are are coming into fruition. And then you work on healing it, like through affirmations, telling them this is not mine, right? Or I love you, I forgive you, even just reaching out for a hug. When it's time, you can't force anything. But when you work through the field, things just naturally fall into place. It is powerful, powerful work. And I know it may seem woo-woo for a lot of people. Like I've shared this modality with many people that I love and care about. And some of them straight up have told me, like, that sounds like bullshit. But I know what the effect is that it has had on my life. I see the effect that it's had on my family. I'm talking about miraculous shit. And it's Hanya, like me just representing as someone's grandfather, Filipino grandfather as as well. And then there's so much happening within that constellation that it just felt like it was something that happened and needed to be released in my family. And a couple of days later, I get a message from a long-lost relative on 23andMe saying that they're my aunt. And they told me something about my grandmother and her father. And I'm like, what? Her father? I didn't know she had an actual biological father, you know? Whatever. Or we didn't know of him. And so that constellation alone helped us to understand my grandmother's origins. It helped to reunite sisters, long-lost sisters in the family. And as I was coming to Bali, I flew over the Philippines. I flew over my mom's hometown of La Union, Philippines. And they were having this reunion at the very moment that I was flying over. And you can't tell me that wasn't, you know, something divine, right? But then that specific constellation that I represented for, it opened up uh it was like the catalyst, literally the connecting line of the constellation to something that I opened up from my mother a couple months later that really helped me to understand my grandma's trauma. Even more so. So and then you just see the effect that it has on your family. Um I love this work so much. And it really doesn't matter if you're representing for someone or if you open up a constellation yourself, you're still receiving. For anyone that's listening, if you want to see a bit of a visual, like an actual like sequence of this, I suggest going on Netflix and watching episode five, I believe, of Sex Love and Goop. One at the Paltros Health series. And the episode five, it it shows a full-on consolation. And you get to see a mother and how she like just put everything on her child. And this child was literally taking this backpack and giving it back to her. Like, this is not mine. And when I saw that, I was like, I need this in my life. And so I put the prayers out there, it aligned. I moved out here, I was looking for a circle out here, it aligned, you know. I was so grateful. But that episode is called Thank the Past. And that's truly like I think you get to a point in your life where you realize that everything has worked out for you. Even the hardship, even the difficulty. You you know, thank you, difficulty, thank you, destruction, because I'm so grateful for who I am now. And it has given me the skills to help others. Yeah. And I I mean it. Right.

SPEAKER_05:

You mean it. And I so when we were talking about regrets the other day, just a side conversation I was having, and I was like, I don't I really don't have that much. You know, and it doesn't mean that it was peachy, right? It's just that all of those things built the woman that you're looking at, and I'm damn proud of her. And so, like, but I needed to go through that, and some of it was really hard. Continues to be. And I love what you were talking about. Like, one of the reasons I asked about family consolation therapy is I'm always interested in different modalities of healing and sharing them with people and learning about my own. Even when anytime I travel, um, if I find myself in another country and there's different therapy, or, you know, um, I was in Costa Rica this summer and they had all these different things you could do, massages and stuff. Um, but one of them was like a water massage, and I just had never gotten one. And I so I'll p I'll purposely pick the thing I don't know what it is, right? Because I've already gotten other stuff. And so I'm just usually curious, what can I learn here? Um and I I can't even explain it because it was one of the I would say largest feeling experiences I've ever had. And I was I'm in the this like watsu pool with this woman, and she's all I can say to describe it, because n nothing I say is gonna give it justice at all, um, is that it felt like being rebirthed. Oh wow. And through the womb. Yeah. Coming out. And I I mean, you I would think I was fucking nuts with the what I was feeling and seeing, and like it got to the point where we were done and she like sort of because they hold you, she holds you in the water. So I'm relaxed, but she's holding me and like moving my body for me. And I somewhere in there, I started crying and I didn't stop. And so when we were done, like when when I say that I was disgusting, I mean I had snot coming out of everywhere because I couldn't, we're in the water. I have nothing to, you know, there's no Kleenex. And I am just my body is racking with sobs. Like I'm crying so hard. And it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But I I all I can explain is that it felt like nobody's ever loved me that much. I just felt like I've I had more love like a mother. Um, and that anything I ever had done was forgiven and okay, and I was enough. And again, saying the words doesn't explain the feeling at all. But it was just it was just beautiful. Yeah. And you couldn't make it up. She wasn't trying to do anything. She's just doing what she was doing, and I let myself Was she basically like holding you while you were floating around the water? Yeah. And she was sort of like it wasn't a massage at all. She's moving my arms in different ways, like very slowly over the course of about an hour. But why I ask about that and why I'm always interested because so much of what I think I have had the privilege of receiving just across healing is being open to all these different ways and saying yes. And um, when you get into things that are conceptually called woo-woo or or whatever you want to call it, I just I think when I sort of put down my axe about whether I was right or wrong or whether this is real or isn't real, um, I opened up to a whole world of things that like if I wrote down in a journal like a bullet point list of things that I have seen or thought or have happened to me, or signs, or symbols, or synchronicities, it would be astronomical and half the world would not believe me. But I just I just now know. And it took me a long time. Think of it like a it's like a language. And when you're when you're in the process of creating a language with the world, it's you don't you don't have a dictionary full of stuff. You have to build that dictionary over time. And so at this point, it's still tiny compared to probably what it could be. But I just I have a lot of stuff now that I have evidence of like, oh, yep, got it. That's a yes for me. Nope, I'm not going there, you know, and it's um and it's changed also, as I've changed over time. You know, there were signs, I don't know, I pull cards, that's the thing that I do. And like the first time I ever really got into pulling cards, I was I was getting a divorce. And I I wasn't really big into it at the time. I kind of did it for fun, but it really didn't mean anything to me. And I was in this place where I'm pulling cards every day, and for weeks it was like the same three cards. And I was like, I you gotta think I'm fucking nuts. This can't be. And it was all all of them were about separation. Yep. And it was literally the the name of the card was separation, and the other one that I kept getting was deep freeze, hibernation. Like, don't do anything yet. Just just hang out. A lot of stuff's happening. You're coming apart, and that's okay, just chill. That was kind of like you're thinking. But it was just that was the first time I would say that I actively was like, something else is here. And I don't know what that is. And since then, that was in 2018. Um, so since then I just said, Okay, what do you got? You know, and that journey has been incredible. And it's included all different types of healing and also just like regular therapy, too, with just great people.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_05:

Or beautiful conversations that are not, you know, a structured therapy session, but I walk out of there being like, damn, that was great. You know, and I think being open to all of that, whether it's different types of therapy or just different possibilities of how this world can work for you, and you with it, um, is an incredible way to live.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I agree. I think it's the way to live. Being open, being open to your joy.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And all the things that lead you there. And your pain.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm thinking of like inside out right now. Yes. I haven't seen the last one. Yeah. Anxiety is a really cool uh character. Um I I love the message at the end of the first one where you know you you learn like joy and sadness. They're mirrors of each other. You can't have one without the other. Yeah. So yeah. Grateful. Grateful for it all. Thank you, Leia. Thank you, Natanya.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm so happy that you said yes to this.

SPEAKER_01:

I contacted her just like you did. I was out there, I reached out to her saying after I had listened to this for a podcast. I've listened to every episode, by the way. Um, after um listening to, you know, um a few a few episodes at the gym, I was like, man, we need to continue our conversations from Bali. Like, I I need to be on this podcast and I'm not gonna wait. I'm just gonna ask.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes. I love that you did. I love that as soon as you did, I was like, hell yeah. I also I have a list of people. I don't remember if I actually told you this, but I think you did. I have a list of people just that I brain dumped one day of like anybody I could ever want to talk about or to. Um, and you were on that list. And it's just, you know, it's a long letter. And I was like, but when you showed up, I was like, yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So there you think coming back to what we were saying earlier about not being afraid or being afraid but doing it anyway. Because I'm not gonna lie, at the beginning of this conversation, I was a little shaky, right? But you just you do it when you know, when you know it's going to be expansive.

SPEAKER_05:

Such a great and I'm just so glad that you not only that you reached out for this, but that we got to reconnect. Yeah. I'm very much a human that um people go years and they'll be like, oh, let's do like you know, whatever, and they don't do it or they won't follow up, or it'll be somebody that they saw a couple years ago. And they'll think things like, oh, I'm not gonna bother her, or I'm not gonna whatever. And I'm always like, bother me. Bother me. Like whether it's somebody I went to high school with, you know. And I've gotten over the years, I've gotten a handful of messages that seem like out of the woodwork from someone I haven't seen since I was 15 or, you know, whatever. Um, and some of them have been just the best conversations. Yes. I'm just like, hell yeah, I love who you've become and it's been 20 years.

SPEAKER_01:

Especially with people from high school, right? From 20 years ago, and you're like, man, I love that I can connect with you on this level and not be shy, freaking out, trying to avoid seeing you because I'm ashamed of how I was in high school.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Those connections are so beautiful.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, I hope like please stay in touch. Definitely. And even if it's a couple more years and you see something, like blow me up and I will we'll make time because it matters.

SPEAKER_01:

It really does. It does matter. It totally does. And I I will continue to listen to your podcasts because I get so much from it. When you said um your prayers or your intention settings, like this or better, that has stuck with me.

SPEAKER_05:

So yeah, it's one of my favorite prayers, and it's the same kind of thing. It leaves so much space for like this is the thing I'm attached to that I think that I want. This partner, this man, this life, this house, whatever. Or something better. I think the universe is way more creative than I am, also. Like so much stuff you don't want me in charge of. So yeah. You're co-creating. Well, thank you so much. This is beautiful. I adore you, and I just am so grateful that you you spent time with me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

I was supposed to meet you. Capitalize metalicized bold dot. Supposedly.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, thank you again.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, love. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you so much for being here. It means more than you know. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find the show. If you want more of me, head on over to Natania Allison.com and enter your name and email for behind the scenes updates in between shows. New episodes air every Tuesday. We'll see you next week.