EP32: The Permission Myth | Realizing Nothing Changes Until You Do with Lily Petersen

"I realized that my comfort was becoming a cage."

Whether you’ve hit every milestone on a high-achiever’s list or you’ve simply been playing it safe on autopilot—have you ever looked at the life you’ve built and realized you’ve lost the person it was all supposed to serve?

This week, I’m sitting down with Lily Peterson, who honored her own nudge over a high-level leadership career and a six-figure identity, choosing instead the unknown of a one-way ticket to Australia What she discovered across the world is that when you finally stop running, your nervous system finally has the safety to speak—and the healing that follows is where the real journey begins.

In this episode, we’re pulling back the curtain on:

• The Identity Death: 
  What happens when the "24/7 Boss" stops clocking in? We talk about the jarring silence of having no hobbies and no external validation to lean on.
• The Body’s Voice: 
  Why "doing it all" can often manifest physically once the adrenaline wears off. Lily shares her journey through healing and the transition from medical gaslighting to true self-advocacy.
• Evidence-Based Bravery: 
  Why "fearless" is a myth. We talk about doing it afraid—whether that’s eating breakfast alone at a hotel or moving 10,000 miles away from your safety net.

Whether you’re dreaming of a massive move or just trying to regulate after a long week of "life-admin," Lily’s story is a beautiful reminder that confidence isn't a feeling you wait for—it’s the evidence you build by showing up for yourself in the quiet. We spend so much time building a life that looks good on paper, we often forget to check if it feels good to live in.

This episode is an invitation to stop performing for a timeline and start listening to your own internal compass. Whether you’re standing at a massive crossroads or just feeling a quiet tug toward something new—trust that nudge.

Full show notes: netanyaallyson.com/episodes/32

Transcript

Identity Shifts and Awakenings

Netanya 0:00

There are moments in life that split us open. By unraveling, such as fragments were truths, we didn't obey it. Until we had no choice. This podcast is about those moments. It's about the turning points that change us. The things I wish someone had told me that I only understand and looking back. Come on in. You belong here. And we're gonna talk about all of it. I'm your host, Natanya, and this is what I didn't know. Before we begin, a quick note. This podcast explores themes such as mental health, addiction, trauma, and recovery. While the stories here are honest and heartfelt, they're not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or medical treatment. Please listen with care and pause anytime you need to. Take whatever resonates for you and leave the rest. Today's guest is Lily Peterson. Lily and I talk about stopping the search for external validation and starting the work of self-trust. We get into the weight of realizing you are the one in charge of your own joy. And lastly, how to listen to the quiet intuition that tells you when something is wrong before it becomes a crisis. Here we go. I'm so excited that you're here. It's been a minute since I've talked to you and so much of real life has changed since then. I would love to get started on letting go of the identity of who you thought you were supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I know. Well, first of all, it's so good to see you and just hear your voice. We used to chat, I feel like five, six times a week at work, and now I don't see you other than on social media, which I feel like is so um typical nowadays, you know? But yeah, it's so good to see you and the identity that has shifted. It's changed a lot.

Netanya 1:57

I know. Well, and I was talking to a friend about this the other day. We were talking about the concept of like the midlife crisis. And I don't love that term specifically because I think it is an outdated term that refers to something very different than what I've personally experienced and what I've seen many other people experience. Um, but usually when someone has shifted their life as much as I have witnessed from afar that you have, and I know I have also personally done there's like a level of identity shift in there where you have some kind of awakening where you make different choices than you've been choosing prior to that.

The Comfort Zone as a Cage

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Well, I think the biggest thing is the comfortability of it. Sometimes your identity shifts due to choice. Maybe like you know that you're switching, I guess what you're doing, or it's completely out of your control. Mine was definitely within my control. I left, you know, my hometown that I moved to post-college, but that aspect of moving back to a home, my hometown was not necessarily a choice because it was during COVID. I mean, I guess it is in a way, but there's also that aspect that you kind of get pushed in a certain direction due to external factors as well. But um yeah, in the last, I guess we're at like a year and a half almost-ish, kind of a little short of that. Leaving hometown, um, a very comfortable six-figure salary job. That was a huge part of my identity, my family, my friends, and just overall, you know, a country that is familiar. And yeah, I just think that I've realized for a long time I felt like I knew that comfort for me was becoming a bit of a cage because I always felt like I was ready to try something new or go somewhere else, or I said I'd move to California or I'd move to the East Coast and try something new, but I never really did, I just never did it. Um and it's easy to just think, oh, I need to save more money, I need to wait because a friend's getting married, or you know, your parents are getting older. I might as well stick around for a little bit longer, and then you just realize that another year has passed and another year. And I just was like, what am I doing? I'm in my prime twenties, as everyone calls it. And while I'm building a ton of experience and memories still, I was like, this is I feel like this is not the way it's supposed to be going. So it's that the timing's never perfect, which everyone says older than how old we are, everyone's like, the timing's never perfect. You can never save enough money, whatever. Awaiting is just honestly avoidance of something that's going to be uncomfortable regardless. And I had never realized how uncomfortable it would be because I am a creature of habit and I like being comfortable or at least planning for all the inevitables. And no matter how much I planned, there was still not enough planning that I could have done to prepare for certain aspects. So yeah.

Netanya 5:07

Well, and you didn't, I mean, you didn't just move to another state. No.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

I moved to Australia, which is the furthest possible. I believe it honestly is the furthest possible place I could have moved.

Netanya 5:21

I think you're right. Um and I you also I've I've had the beauty and honor of spending time with your parents. I know that you're close with your family, so that has to be a big, a big shift to to make that choice. I'm curious what was under like at at what point did you sit up and go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this?

Taking the Leap: Moving to Australia

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Well, I think with family, I'm very close with my family. And I also think with that nature, which I realize, I guess first to state I have many people in my life that don't have close family, or maybe it's one parent and not the other. And so I'm very fortunate and I feel very grateful that I have two parents that I'm very close with. But it they're a lot older too. My mom and dad had my twin brother and I at 45. And so there's a lot that comes with having older parents and then, you know, health and all of that mainly. But I think with a job that I was working between any week was it was always over 40 hours a week. And then the mental load outside of the actual work hours that no one ever sees. Like most weeks were 60 plus. I mean, you just I never shut off ever. Um, but I uh would have a few months off and with the seasonal aspect of how Steamboat was, um, with the ski town, you know, resort vibes. And I honestly I don't remember oh, actually, no, I kind of remember it was like really it was March, I think, February, March. And I was just like, I wake up and I do the same thing every day, pretty much. I'm always stressed, I'm on heightened alert. I wake up with my phone being blown up, with problems that I have to solve. And I was like, I can't just always wait for the off season or my next solo trip because it was always usually a solo trip because nobody else could get the same time off that I could. Like my friends are in nine to fives and they get weekends off. And I just said, okay, well, I really enjoyed when I went to Australia this one time, and I could see myself living there. It's pretty similar. There's not much of a cultural or language barrier, which I felt maybe that would be a bit easier, which I'm sure in many ways that has been easier than maybe going elsewhere that has a different um language that they're speaking. But I also just felt like if I'm gonna move, I might as well just really go far and go to like California or somewhere where I felt like I'd always said I'm gonna go there, and then I just never really pulled the trigger, I guess. But I that next day booked my flight really preemptively. I booked a one-way flight to see it in the off season and go here or come here as like um what neighborhood do I want to live in? Is this like a commute I'd want to do? All those aspects. And I came here for like two weeks, I think, um, in that next off season, and then now met my boyfriend on the last three days of the trip, very um unplanned. It was amazing, and we've obviously been together ever since. But the fact that I thought that I would do this move by myself is crazy because honestly, I think within the first few months, I if I had done this alone, I would have moved home. I would have totally tapped out. But yeah, I just think I woke up and realized that nothing's gonna change unless I change it. And again, you can always you can always change. Like I could have moved here even with a boyfriend that lived here, and I could have been like, not for me, I'm moving home. And there were definitely days where we had that conversation where he was like, You're really homesick. Do you want to move home? Like it had nothing to do with our relationship, but and we would still stay together. And I was like, No, I really want to see this through. Like it's just a hard period, it's gonna be okay. And um yeah, I stuck around.

The Challenge of Starting Over

Netanya 9:27

But well, that aspect of I lived that also, right? Where you um I watched people for years talk about things and not do them. And I realized the same thing, like I'm doing that also. And at the point where I decided to change a lot of things, it was from that same thing. Like, I don't, I didn't want to be a person that just talked about it. And I mean, every aspect of my life, people at work would talk about things they were gonna do, but they really didn't change, right? People, friends or family.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

The workout you're gonna try, like the hike you're gonna do. We talk we talked about that at work. Well, what's this list of hikes we're gonna do? And I don't think I did any of them. You did not.

Netanya 10:08

Yeah. Uh we'll put that on the bucket list for the next time I see you. We'll go on a hike. But I love that I just said that. And in my head, when I said it, I thought when I go to Australia, like I'm absolutely, I became that kind of person that me saying that to you on here isn't a a passive thing that I just said. Like it it's not at all outside of my realm of things and choices to buy a plane ticket to go to Australia.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah.

Netanya 10:34

You know what I mean? Like I would I do those kinds of things now. And I do them on purpose and I'm trying to make smart choices around them. They're not like frivolous or, you know, I make sure I can afford that. But I I never used to be that kind of person that like there's a level of risk required and bravery and courage to say, I'm gonna do this thing. And I don't, you know, I've traveled, I had traveled after I got divorced. I spent some time in um Vancouver.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah.

Netanya 11:02

And I went to see a friend that I had only ever met online. We were in a women's group, like virtual group that I met every month. I had never met her in person. I went and stayed with her for a week. She invited me and I was like, Are you sure? Because I will come. And I think people do that like passively. It's like, oh, well, you know, come stay here if you ever want to do this. And most people don't take take you up on it.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

It's the conversation I like to always say where you're in a bat in a woman's restroom and you're like, oh my gosh, hey. And you see someone, you're like, let's get coffee sometime, let's grab a drink, and then you both go on your way and you've you never speak again until you meet in the bathroom again.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yeah.

Embracing Uncomfortable Experiences

SPEAKER_01 11:37

And you have to start living with making the decisions and the choices and actioning them. And I think that for a lot of people, that's really, really uncomfortable because it's like, well, but I have work five days a week and then I have I'm going to the gym and I have to make food. And I, you know, life admin, that's that's a huge term that everyone uses here in Australia. And I love it. I was like, I've never heard of it. I know. I'm starting to realize the things I've picked up that I'm like, I never used to say that. But honestly, that term of life admin is so true, and it takes up so much of your mental load throughout the week, the months, the years, and time just goes on, and that's why you lose track. But you going to Vancouver and making that intention of, okay, I could be home and do the same old, watch the same show and eat the same takeout, make the same pasta at home, or I could go and do this and maybe, yeah, I spend a little bit of money, but you can make that intention to do it. And that I started doing that with solo trips um, you know, a few years ago, I guess. And the amount of people that I probably have never really had a real conversation with that would message me on Instagram and say, How did you do that? How did you go on a trip alone? I can't even go get lunch by myself. And I was that person. I would think about everyone looking at me, and it was so uncomfortable. And it is uncomfortable. There's still times I'm like, this is weird, but you have to do it. I think you have to be really uncomfortable once, and it gets easier. And I think you can relate to that. Um it yeah. Yeah.

Netanya 13:18

No, I love that. And it's like there's a there's a phrase I like to say. I came up with this in my brain when I went to Bali, um, which is that if you want to travel the world, if you want to be a person that travels the world, you can't stay home. Meaning you have to step off the front porch. And I think people create those vision boards or whatever in their mind of the thing they want to do in this life and don't actually take the steps to make that change. And caveat, I've gone in phases, right? I think as humans were cyclical, like the seasons or the moon or whatever. There have been seasons where I have hunkered down and worked hard and saved money. And, you know, I didn't just I've gone in waves of what season I was in. But I think it's it's like to your point on the seasonal nature of the job that we were in before, was that and living in Steamboat, I came on mud season and was like, I'm I'm not gonna make that much money in mud season. It lasts a chunk of time there. What if I what if I went to the other side of the world? Like I'm it's not like I'm missing that much because I'm I'm not making that much money anyway at that point in time. And then I sort of looked around and was like, did I, did I just say that? Can I can I do that? Can I spend a month in another country and can I travel alone? Like I've never yeah, I've gone to other places in the US, but this is not that's not a place I've ever been. And then I just had that thought, like, I'm I wanna be brave in this experience that I have, and that means I have to book a ticket. Yeah. And so I did. It was like three days later after I said it.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

And then still uh Carl's, right? When you book uh Yeah, I remember you saying you were gonna maybe do it. It's like book the ticket.

Netanya 15:09

Book it. Yeah. Yeah. But it's such a but you're right to the point of once I did it, I've done it. And then doing it again is not that scary. And prior to that, you know, when I got divorced, I had never traveled anywhere alone. And so after the year I got divorced, I spent the first place I went before I went to Bali on the other side of the world, I went to Maui alone. Yeah. Because it felt safer. It was closer. I'm still in the US, it feels far enough. I had never been there before. It was sort of a test ground. It's like you don't have to jump off the whole cliff, but I did lean closer to the edge. But the more that I think you do that, and the same with moving, you know, I moved to Colorado. I didn't know anyone in Colorado, and then now I live in Tennessee. But the second time that I did that, when I moved to Tennessee, not knowing anyone, I'd already done it once before. So I have like it confidence comes from evidence. You build muscle when you have evidence that you can do something. And so now I've in all these little ways. And those are we're using large scale examples, right? Of moving and doing giant.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Do you feel like your Maui trip was your like I don't know, that one aspect where it was like your first kind of endeavor alone? Yeah. Is that the one? Yeah.

Netanya 16:24

Yeah. And even so before the Maui trip, I did the Vancouver trip. So I wasn't I met someone on the other end, but it was still pushing my newness. I had never been to Canada. Yeah. I had never I didn't know her in person, you know, and I stayed with her. And so there were aspects of it that I was kind of pushing a little bit earlier. But yes, Maui was the first one that I was like, I've never gone anywhere alone.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

It's always been family or friends or well, there's usually someone on the other side. Yeah. Where like I'm sure in Maui you had to go to meals alone, or you had to make the decision of what am I gonna do today? And maybe that's nothing. And that's okay. Which is a great how long did you go to Maui on that trip?

Netanya 17:07

I was there for a week.

Gains from Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Okay. So that's similar in the I believe maybe were we working together when I went through that like really horrible breakup. Yes. Were you working there or was it right after? Maybe we I don't know, but I remember we talked about it. We definitely talked about it. But um yeah, that um that one. But I booked the trip to California. Yes. Because we were supposed to go to Mexico and obviously we broke up. But yeah, going, I picked a place that felt safe and comfortable. I wasn't gonna just not go on a trip, but which I could have, that would have definitely been the easy route. But I look back thinking, holy crap, if I didn't book that trip to California and go spend a week by myself, what would have happened? And I remember on, well, when I booked it, I definitely had the the motive of, oh, I'm gonna live my hot girl era and go on a bunch of dates while I'm there and like rebound and you know, what is he missing? Um and I think it was day, well, I checked into the hotel and I was in Huntington Beach, and it was a resort I'd stayed at with my parents before multiple times rang up. So I knew the area, I knew where I was. It wasn't unfamiliar or anything, but I was like, I'm gonna have a, you know, a very chill time. And they were, oddly enough, it was the air show. So every day from like 8 a.m. to four or five p.m., there's jets flying over you, like military jets and everything. It was so loud, it was not relaxing at all. It honestly sent me in a fight or flight, probably from day one. Um, but I did go on a few dates and I or no, I sorry, I went on a date and had a meltdown and was like, this is not why I'm here. I was like, I'm not ready to date anyone, and pretty much goes to the guy from there on out. Nice guy too, but like wasn't ready. And um that trip totally sent me to then do a bunch of solo trips. But I'll never forget I have a picture of the meal I ate. It was the first meal I've ever eaten out in public alone. And I had breakfast at the hotel. There's probably like I don't know, six or seven. It wasn't even packed, but I was the only one alone. And it's probably not weird at a hotel to eat alone as compared to maybe somewhere else. I was so uncomfortable, I don't even know if I ate that much. And you know, you feel like you have to be on your phone the whole time or like you have to look busy. And then the next day I had breakfast, it was a nice place in the hotel by myself. And I tested to like don't be on my phone, just look around. And I definitely thought to myself a lot, like people are like, what is she doing? What is she looking at? No, I don't think anyone really cared. And then you start talking to like the employees and maybe around you, and like you actually interact with people. And I never would have done that if I just had my AirPods in and was watching something on my phone. But it's a good way to start for anyone that wants to do it.

Self-Discovery and Healing

Netanya 20:26

It's really scary, but it is, and it's like even you know, before I did that, I was I had moved out of my house. I had gotten was getting divorced, I moved back in with my mom. Yeah. And I had a lot of free time. This is before Colorado. Um, and I was exploring in a car. Like I had uh when I got divorced, he kept the car, like we had vehicles, he kept that. So we I ended up, I had my mom's 2003 Honda CRV that was falling apart. Yeah. And I was just like trying to breathe again. And so I was like going to hikes in different parts of Illinois that I hadn't been to yet. Yeah. Right. And trying different places around where I was. So I'm and I'm saying that to kind of back us up from it can be a lot to talk about Australia or Bali. Yeah. And even it can still be a lot to talk about California or Maui. But it's like you can start, yeah, you can start exploring and just doing things differently in the grocery store. You know, maybe you just don't grocery shop with ear pods in this time and talk to somebody that works there. But it's about pushing past your comfort zone and not to any, not to try to make yourself panic by any means, but just how do you start baby stepping to stretch yourself so that you can lean more in that in the direction of the person you want to become?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah, I think so too. And I think that there are people that, or I I guess I look at myself where there was a stage where this conversation would have never crossed my mind because I had no want or where. Withal to like do this. And I think that's totally normal. Some people at a certain stage of life don't resonate with it. And I know I've been there. But I think if there comes a point where you hear something and you're like, hmm, it's worth exploring because you don't know what you're gonna step into. Right. Yeah, you just don't know where it's gonna lead you.

Netanya 22:21

I'm curious about the concept of starting over and what that has felt like for you emotionally. That that's a big deal. It's not just a physical move, but you had to you had to change your whole identity and create a new beginning somewhere totally new. How has that been for you emotionally?

Empowerment Through Self-Awareness

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Um, I think every so I guess January I hit a year mark of moving. So we're over a year. I think every month since then, had you asked me that question, I would have had a well, I would say the first eight months, I would say, like I said to probably anyone that asked, how's living in Australia? I'd be like, it's great. I love living near the ocean. I've never lived by the ocean, I've always been landlocked. And then about I'd say two, three months ago, I started realizing, what am I doing? Why am I essentially lying? Yes, it is great. I live near the water. I've never lived near the ocean before. It's been a vacation destination to go to an ocean, but I've started answering with with obviously people that aren't just a random passerby or at first. Now I just answer truthfully to everyone. And I just say, yeah, it's actually really hard. Like there's um it's really hard. And it's there's aspects where I've definitely been like, what am I doing? Everything is unknown, and there is no amount of preparation that you can do, honestly. Like nothing. I think the biggest realization is that well, two, I there's probably a thousand, but um, I wasn't running away from anything. Yeah. And that made it hard, I think. So in the moment or the preparation of it, it's exciting. There's a lot to do. I was moving my cats over here. There's a lot of preparation and paperwork and visas and just it's non-stop pretty much until you get on the plane. And even with that, there's still stuff you have to deal with when you get here. But I wasn't running away from anything. I wasn't running away from an abusive relationship. I wasn't running away um from anything, really. I mean, I guess you could say like an old identity, but I wasn't running away. I was looking into the future excited. And I also I guess it was really hard to accept that I'm not a quick flight home. If I move to another state and someone has, like one of my friends has a baby, or there's a wedding, or I just want to go see a friend for the weekend because for my whole life, pretty much all of my friends have lived across the US. So it's not abnormal for me to have to get on a flight to go see someone. But to get on a flight that's 24 hours is a whole different story. It's a different financial bracket and commitment, and you can't just go for a long weekend. Um, so missing out on stuff was really a big realization once I started missing things and getting wedding invites that I knew I wasn't gonna be able to go to. That was really hard. But I also had to realize that realistically, you miss out on stuff regardless. But I always typically chose to show up for everyone, even when I was maxed out. I said yes to things that I probably should have said no to and nobody would have faulted me. But um moving, I think the realizations that I've had were ones I didn't think I would, I guess, have as much, like losing some friendships that I thought we would be friends until we were older. And it wasn't because of any big falling outs. It was the communication just didn't continue. And I also realized, wow, I've reached out however many times, and they're not reciprocating. So I guess that's done. And you have to realize, wow, I was uh these people were a huge part of my life, but they don't care. They haven't asked about anything about me anymore. So we're just not friends anymore. Didn't happen with a lot of people, but it definitely makes you realize I was giving how much energy and it wasn't reciprocated at all. Um, or at some point it gave up, I guess. Um, but it shifts your identity with losing friendships, it shifts with missing out on big events and really feeling like, oh, like I'm not a part of those memories at all. Um and you really realize who's there for you and who cares by who reaches out to you too, especially when I would just say, everything's great. And I would have my true friends and family be like, mm-hmm. Yeah, you're lying. I would be like, mm-hmm. Yeah, I am lying.

Netanya 27:36

So I'm curious, we've talked about like what you've lost throughout that space. What have you gained in terms of honoring yourself? Like standing in that, knowing that that's okay, that you can let go of some of those people. What has that been like to sort of be empowered in that space?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Well, I think the biggest thing by choosing uh an uncomfortable move was that I gained a really, really healthy relationship with not only myself but with my boyfriend. And I think that in itself being in a previously very unhealthy relationship, it led me to choose people that I always knew weren't right for me. And I never would have admitted that prior to maybe the last, you know, two years. But there was always one little aspect of these partners I chose that had a similar quality of unhealthiness. Granted, that's a stage of learning. But I've gained a very healthy relationship that I think you'd I always would say, oh, like I dream of that. I want a good partner and someone that cares for me and just genuinely does care for me and treat me very well and is kind. And that sounds crazy, but when you've been in a relationship where someone is not kind to you, it goes a long way. So I think that I've gained that reawakening, I guess, to myself and being in more like a feminine era. Like I was a literally the boss in my last role for the last five years and had to be very dominant essentially. And I can come home now to our home and not have to be in charge, and I can let the reins go a lot, which is very uncomfortable. It was very uncomfortable. There's still times it is, but I'm also just like, oh, um, you got it. You're actually gonna do it. That's crazy. I can lean into yeah, just the feminine side where I've never usually done that before. I saw this thing on I want to say it was Instagram where it was like, I wear pink now. And I wouldn't say I wear pink now, but I definitely feel like I like color a little bit more because I'm not just I don't know, my my personality's not as black and white. I think I can feel my emotion and not feel bad about it. Yeah, what else did I gain? I mean, I feel like I've gained a lot, but a lot of it, I think the most important thing is that it's not physical things. Like I'm not gaining, oh, a new apartment in a different country or fun trinkets on the shelf that I used to love, that kind of stuff. It's a lot of self-healing and learning about my environment and how I react in an environment that I've gained. I also being in this healthy relationship, I worked on a ton of past trauma through EMDR, which is like a do you know, yeah. I think we talked about this at one point, but what it is. It's eye movement desensitization, reprocessing, which is like a form of trauma therapy. I did that for a few years and I thought I worked through all my trauma. Um, I've realized now since being in a healthy relationship and giving myself the space to not be working so much and sit with my own thoughts that I maybe have not worked through all of it, and that it's not just you work on it, it's gone forever. It can still come back up.

Navigating Identity and Growth

Netanya 31:26

But yeah. A lot of that, what I love about it is it's a lot of self-awareness. Like you have to be able to look at those things and have awareness around them before you can change. Right. And there's there's a lot of empowerment in in sitting in something and and naming it like, oh, this is what happened to me. This is my response to things. I think a lot of people sometimes are afraid of that, that there's flaws or darkness in there. And it's been my experience of it has been such a gift. It's like, oh, that's what I do. And that's where I learned that. And I I can look at that and work on that to not respond in the same ways that I have before. And also, I think just your own, your own growth and healing. Like you said, the feminine example was beautiful because you're right, the role that you were in is very masculine. I mean, very dominant, very masculine, very get shit done. And you were good at it. And that's hard when that's that's your whole identity, that's your whole life to be able to make choices to step in different directions and consider what might this look like if that's not my identity anymore.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Yeah. And the acceptance from anyone outside of myself of accepting who I am in a way. And that's not just like the deep levels of who someone is. It's I guess being a boss to hundreds of employees, not everyone likes you. But the sensitive person that I was going into that role five, or I guess now six years ago, and I lasted in it for five years, lasted. Um, I am not at all the same person when I stepped into that role the first day than I was the last day I left five years later because I got trampled on. Like the mean things people said to me, said about me behind my back, like the trauma that brought up from high school girls talking about me, but having grown adults that are triple my age, eye-opening, but I wouldn't change it because it, you know, you have all the realizations of, oh, they're unhappy within themselves. And, you know, there's nothing I could do to make them happy, and I'm just doing my job. Whatever my justification is behind it, it still hurts and I'm still human. But I think it really prepared me for this big move to not have to jump in to find a bunch of friends or find validation from other people that I was making the right decision and doing the right things. And it also allowed me the space of I have given myself 24-7 for the last pretty much five years as a whole to anyone else other than myself. I had multiple weddings in one year that I was the maid of honor in. And I can tell you that year I did nothing for myself. Like truly didn't. I, you know, never really did the everything showers everyone talks about where you really treat yourself to the spa life, whatever. I never really did any of that for myself. And now when I moved to this new country and I thought I had a job completely lined up, I prepared it all. I was like, it's gonna be seamless, like nothing's gonna change, and none of that worked out. I had months to just sit with myself and learn how to fill the day. And I didn't have hobbies. I realized at the ripe age of how old am I now? I was 27, I think, when I moved here. Yeah, 27. I didn't have a hobby. I I mean, back home in Colorado, I had outdoor activity hobbies that I would do by myself, like five fly fishing and hiking and camping and whatnot. But here, at home hobbies, I didn't have hobbies. I'm not a reader, I don't crochet, wool beating, like all the things you see. Um there was this trend of like an analog bag. Have you heard of that? Mm-mm. People are like, oh, I don't want to just, you know, in a waiting room be on my phone on Instagram. I need an analog bag. And whether that's having a Sudoku or your book or your Kindle, your crochet, and I was like, I don't do any of that. I don't, I don't have any of that to do a hobby. I had the realizations that I need to do things for myself and not find full identity in my workplace.

Netanya 35:56

How did you like if somebody was listening and they're thinking about that they do this, that they get validation from people externally and care about what other people think and are making choices from that space? How do you step away from that? Like, how do you change that? Move to a new country.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

I'm just kidding. Honestly, I'm still figuring it out. I don't know because when I lived in the States, when I I look back and there were those times where maybe my shift had ended, I got home, I took a shower, I ate something, and my show I wasn't interested in. Like I didn't want to watch another episode of Grey's Anatomy or whatever. And I would just log in, not log in, but I would open work and I would do because my role was like that. Not everyone's job is like that, but I would do extra stuff that was within my scope, but also those were not hours I was essentially compensated for. But that's kind of the issue with work-life balance in a lot of roles in the US specifically that I've realized, but that was my normal. So then I would spend, you know, four or five hours into like 2 a.m. working on paperwork and people's requests and HR nightmares, whatever. Um, and I realized that was time that I should have been finding something that I enjoyed or trying a new book, or I don't even know. But then not having that role and there's not something for me to clock into. I'm not sure I'm genuinely still figuring it out. The one thing I do is I sometimes, if it's nice, like a day like today, I'll just go sit out in the sun. But I used to just take a nap, which is not always the best, but because it's a little avoidant. I don't know. I think that it's just that pushing yourself to keep trying. I don't think I'm gonna become a reader necessarily. I really don't. I don't think I'm gonna like crochet. Like, I don't know, honestly. I think it'll take a while for me to figure that out, but I keep trying new things. I do a little walk around the store here that's similar to like um Hobby Lobby, not Hobby Lobby, um, maybe I guess Hobby Lobby or Joanne's fabric on something. Um, the store that's like that here. Sometimes I just walk around and I'm like, maybe I could get the paint by numbers. Maybe I would like that. But I don't know. I really don't know.

Netanya 38:19

Well, part of that is just the beauty of exploration and just try like being willing to try new things and be the new kid. I'm new at this thing, whatever it is. And whether that's trying it on your own, if that feels safer to do things on your own, or you do sign up for a paint by number class and you walk in and you're like, I don't know, you know what I mean? Like whatever the thing is. But one of the things you've said repeatedly here, which I love and just feels like a beautiful thread that has woven throughout this experience is the willingness to be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah. I think that it's I had to shift it that it was my choice this time. I think there's a lot of instances in our lives for most people, maybe not everyone, and maybe for some more than others at times, but being uncomfortable isn't our choice. It happens to you. But these opportunities, I guess I could say, are my choice to be uncomfortable. So I think trying to take the ownership of that has been a redefining aspect of this is weird, this is really uncomfortable, but I'm gonna do it. It's just that initiative, I guess.

Redefining Success

Netanya 39:32

Well, and it's the term like the term fearless is so not my favorite because I am afraid. I'm afraid all the time. I just do things afraid. Yeah. No, it's it's true. Yeah. But I think somewhere in there is how you, like I said before, how you build that muscle of like, I I can do that. Like in however you baby step your way through that, but the willingness to be uncomfortable, to be new, to not know what you're doing, to look stupid. I have looked so stupid so many different times. You should have seen me the first time I put on a snowboard and went online being from Illinois. Like, not a thing I had ever done. Yeah. Um, but I was just willing, I was willing to do it because I knew that somewhere on the other side I would become more of the person that I wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'm curious of how your definition of success has changed.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

I think that I've always been a type A timeline person where I thought I'd graduate college at this age and then be married and have a kid and whatever. That like there was a rough timeline, but that's kind of how I measured success was by ticking something off of a list because I love a good list. Um I really do. Um, because you get that sense of accomplishment, but at least for me I love that. But I think that there comes a point where I where there came a point, I guess, in this last I would say since I guess the last year of just being in this ever-changing uncomfortableness that every day I do tackle something new, and just because it's not written down doesn't mean that I didn't accomplish something. So I have I've had to be very raw and vulnerable with my boyfriend, Adam, because I realized that I was holding a lot of it in, which I've always done, but when the time or when the worlds that I'm used to and everyone that's in my life is in a different time zone, and typically when I need them, they're all asleep. I had nobody. Like it's that one aspect of I'm choosing to keep it to myself, and there's someone available to talk to me, but I don't want to. And then there's the other aspect where everyone's phone's on do not disturb, and no one's answering me, and I'm freaking out. Um so we now have this kind of system where well I had to really open up and be like, I feel like I'm gonna cry. And he was like, Okay, okay. And I was like, Yep, it's coming. I'm gonna cry. And um, I was like, I am not accomplishing anything. I don't know who I am. You're essentially the breadwinner in this relationship now. When I've never needed that from anyone, and I now write them down on the kitchen counter, like little things, or he'll write something down. And he's um like little things of I learned how to get my Medicare card here because that's like their universal health care. And I had to go through the submittal of or like that whole process, or we submitted our partner visa and certain aspects that wouldn't need to be written down, but then the fact that I get to cross it off is a really big deal. Uh-huh. He's really good at celebrating me for little things of like, oh, you got offered a job, a new job offer, here's flowers in a card, and like he's good at reaffirming it because I think I have a really hard time doing it for myself. So yeah, I'm not, I just I I'm still figuring it out. I don't know.

Netanya 43:31

I love that. But that's true, right? That's part of it, is that it's a process. And I also love a good list so much so that I will frequently do something that wasn't on my list and then I will go write it down and add it to the list and then cross and then cross it off. And it makes me feel so good. And I have zero apologies about this. Um but I I hear you on the timeline, and I think societally we get a lot of pressure in my brain when I was in high school. I you went to college and then you got married and bought a house and had kids and that was your life. And it's like a white pig event, right? And um lo and behold, to my surprise, that was not how my life actually went. And it it's not linear. It goes in all these other directions. And sometimes that includes taking steps backwards or like, and I say backwards with fair quotes because I don't actually think that they're backwards. And I have made several choices in my life, specifically career, but other choices as well that may look backwards, like whether it's financially or a title or a divorce. And all of them were so good for me. And a lot of times smart choices. One of them, um, I will give you because you were there for that. Like at what at the time I worked at Carl's, there was more than one time that someone asked me to be a manager.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah.

Netanya 44:58

And I said no, more than one time. And for people on the outside, it's like, why wouldn't you take that promotion?

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yeah.

Cultural Norms and Personal Timelines

Netanya 45:04

And but there were when you look at the actual factors of things, there were many things that I was measuring that I was like, I already have these things. This is already, and like this is not part of that. And so looking outside of what people will think, or the title or a salary or things that we measure on society-wise, even if you've been in a relationship for five years, and people will not end it because they have to start over. But if you know that's the right thing for you, following that. And it's sort of like I call it following the right rabbit. Like it doesn't, I kind of go wherever my intuition takes me. And a lot of times it's not logical. And that thing, that like structured Disneyland princess life that I think we're taught that this is how you this is how you succeed. I didn't do that in a lot of things. And it's not always popular. People don't always understand it or support it or question it or look at you like you have two heads. And um, I think part of that is being willing to follow whatever is internal for you that you know is the best choice, even if society, you know, collectively wouldn't deem it as such.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yeah. And I think with that, moving to a different country for anyone, it doesn't have to be Australia. But here, obviously, society norms are different. Like I knew that they would be, but I didn't know what they were. In America, at least where I grew up and what I know is you finish high school, most people, if I feel like everyone is told you have to go to college. Not everyone does, but it's definitely looked at that you need to go to college and pushed on you. And then you finish college, some people continue education, but you then from high school on, you're pretty much out of your parents' house. And then it's looked bad to move back into your parents' house. And I know a little bit of that shifted during COVID because of everything, and some people did move home, etc. But that timeline, that's just always been what I've known as like the society norm. I moved back into my parents' house for a few years prior to moving to Australia, and I didn't really think anything of it. But it's funny because here in Australia, that timeline or society norm is so different. Like people that I know that are in their late 20s, sometimes early 30s, are still living at home. And that's just normal. And I know it's normal in other countries too, but it's not pushed on people to necessarily go to, they call it university. Um, you can also do a trade and you can like end high school early, like a year to then go do that. But it's very interesting because it's just normal. I don't know. And then like parents charge their kids rent or whatever, which I don't really know how I feel about that, but I get it. Um and the timeline is just so different here. So I think it helped shift for me that I'm not doing it wrong. I'm doing it the way that life is taking me, and everyone's doing that, but I think you have to just kind of forget about whatever the society norm is because it ends up going your own way, whichever way it's supposed to go. Adam is a few years older than me. And so it's funny because I've always had this timeline in view, and now I'm like, oh, well, I don't have to have kids anytime soon. Like, I don't really care about getting married right now. I'm just happy kind of living as life comes. And it's honestly the first time ever that I'm like, I don't feel rushed to get married because I'm happy and that doesn't matter to me. Um, the thought of even having to plan a wedding would stress me out. But he's older than me, so he thinks about the timeline more than I do. And I'm like, oh, that's weird. You know, like that's typically, I don't know, that's just like not normal for at least for in my dynamic. But and then I have to be like, okay, well, I guess we can sit down and talk about a timeline, but I also don't want to go by it. I want to see what emerges in the next like coming years, you know. We just, I've been here for a year, we're doing our partner visa for me to ultimately um become a citizen at some point, like towards the end of it. That's the goal. But so then we can go back and forth from the US to Australia with no issues, and it's significantly easier for him to go to the US than for me to come to Australia, which also that's the naiveness of me coming from the US, where you think that the US is the best and you can get anywhere. But actually it's not that easy. Yeah, the timelines just shift, and I think that I've had to push it out of my mind a bit because it makes me go a little loony tunes when I feel like I'm not doing enough, or oh my gosh, if I don't start this now, then I'm not gonna meet a timeline that's three years from now, you know? So sometimes you just kind of have to put it out of your mind.

Netanya 50:38

Well, and I think I like to I like to give myself permission, like to I reserve the right to change my mind. Yeah. Right. Like I've I've I've changed my mind sometimes. And I don't like I think for a long time I always thought of that because I had similar structures and you know, timelines in my head that changing my mind meant that I was flighty or flaky or um indecisive or other things that you know, put a word in there that makes sense. And it's like I've gone from being, I think we get very black and white about stuff, right? You can either be so structured and rigid, rigid and control, like type A is your thing, or you're flighty and whimsical and like you just travel with a backpack through Europe. The world is your oyster, you know, think things like that. And it's like how to find that balance where you have essentially structure to hold on to to kind of guide you. Think of like banks of a river, but the river flows in it where you can move and change and flow within it, but you're still structured enough to keep you going in the same direction.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Yeah, definitely. I would say I'm in the middle of those two realms because I love a last-minute trip, but I'm also not gonna sleep in a hostel. Like I, you know, like I don't know if that makes it make sense to me, but I have a weighted blanket and I have my sleeping regimen and there's an aspect of safety I need, but I'm also super down that if you wanted to tell me tomorrow we're going somewhere, I'll go. Um yeah, there's a middle ground to that for sure.

Netanya 52:14

I'm curious what your experience has been like. Like we've talked about stress and trauma and what that has been like for you in your body as you had to navigate that.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

I think for my most of my adult years and like teenage years, I always knew something wasn't right. Like, you know, you have symptoms of things, and everyone knows their body, honestly. And I think women specifically have to advocate for themselves to say something does not feel right. Um, and I all of my friends know I am a frequent flyer at the doctor, like because something isn't right or whatever, and I just go and I'm always told your labs look normal. Um, and it was really, it's always just been discouraging. But then I moved to another country and the healthcare system's super different, and it was really hard to navigate that and figuring out insurance, and then because you know, you're not a citizen, so you don't get Medicare and all these dynamics and actually being able to seek help where normally back home, it's like you just know where to go. Like you can just go, you give them I had insurance and I could go and give them my card. It was really hard navigating that here, even just going to the dentist. But allowing the space for myself that I'd never really had where I wasn't working the amount of hours and I just had to sit with myself, my body kind it finally went from essentially being in this constant fight or flight state to almost like the full, I guess, 180. Um, and a lot of health issues started arising where I just thought that it was I actually thought it was stress because I was stressed that life wasn't the same. Um, but it's in turn just been like my nervous system reacting to the fact that I didn't deal with all of this for years and I let the stress be so immense and obviously like trauma and whatnot, in the way that that physical trauma affects your nervous system and whatnot, which I was never aware of. But it's I guess what did I say to my mom, the or not my mom, one of my best friends, the other day. I was like, I guess what doesn't kill you even 10 years ago comes back as some autoimmune disease or something because it's it's always gonna be there. Yeah, uh the physical, it's hard, but I think now I also have the time to deal with it. I have the time to if I really need a break, like I'm exhausted, I can go lay down. Sorry, I'm yawning already, just thinking about it. Um I just read my physical cues a lot better. And I I don't know, I think I'd used to always shrug it off of like, that's fine, whatever, doesn't matter. Like I never would do hard-intense workouts after like probably mid-high school till now. I would never go to a hit class, I would never go to these workout classes with friends, or I know in in college orange theory was a huge thing and all these things because I had a personal trainer at one point, and I literally would just pass out. And I wasn't even working out that hard, but now finding out that it's not because I'm lazy and it's not because I don't enjoy a good workout. It's an actual disorder with pots, and um it's just interesting putting a name to it. Like it's finally nice to have an answer and not just be like, oh, well, you're just a woman and you're growing into your body, and it's all normal. It's like, no, it's not normal. All of my medical records were sent from my US doctors over here. And the healthcare system is so interesting here. I don't want to say bad, it's just very different. And you have to, just like in America, not every doctor's a good doctor. Like, you have to find the ones that work for you too, might work for you and not for me. Um but I finally found a doctor that I felt like was it was a good fit. And I had all my records sent over the other week, and she was like, Why was none of this stuff addressed? And I was like, What do you mean? She was like, Well, your heart, there's issues there. And I was like, Oh, that's funny. I've been to multiple cardiologists and they're like, everything's fine. You're just stressed, you're just anxious. And apparently that's not the case. So I think after years of being told it's normal, your labs are normal, and you're like, I'm sick of spending money, and also just being told the same thing and being shrugged away that you just start going, it's not even worth it. I'll just live. Like it's fine. It must be all in my head. But then I I guess I've had the time to advocate for myself more. You're still spending money and it's that part's not fun.

Netanya 57:33

But what is the best thing for you to handle stress when you know it's coming or when you can feel it? What helps you the most?

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Not procrastinating it. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that I used to always procrastinate it and I did really well under pressure. So, like in college, you have an essay and you know it's there, or you have a test. I didn't, I could not visualize like, well, why would I spend all these little chunks of time in the week doing it? I'll just do it the night before. Or I just I wanted to put it out of my mind and I felt like, oh, I write better papers if I'm just under the like pressure of it. But it actually is not great, granted that I don't write essays and have to take tests anymore or anything like that. But it made more sense for me to be prepared and that like over here on a nine to five job, they literally they're like, do not work outside of work hours at all. Do not clock in. But there is nothing more anxiety-inducing for me than opening my email on a Monday morning and seeing that in fact no one else logged off. Or like, you know, there's other things that have been tasked and they're dealing with it, and then I'm just stuck with playing catch up all day. And I don't like doing that. So it's better for me to just essentially not procrastinate, you know, like that doesn't work for everyone. Some people doesn't bother them, but it genuinely makes me so anxious. So preparing that. But in like my personal life, um, you know, Adam is not much of a planner, and I am, and we definitely butt heads with that sometimes where he's like, I don't want to talk about it right now. Like that is three months away. And I'm like, mm-hmm. So we've tried his way a few times and not booked the Airbnb for a wedding or something. And then I'm like, oh, there's nothing there. There's nothing available to book because we waited, you know. Um so I'm like, I'm just gonna book it. And funny enough, I actually there was a wedding and I just I booked it and didn't tell him, and then he's like, What I'm booking, and they're so expensive and nothing's available. And I was like, Yeah, yikes. And he's like, I don't know what we're gonna do. I'm like, good thing I booked it. Good thing I already did it. Just a little test. Um, just a little fun in our relationship. But I just think trying to plan it, I guess, a little bit, but sometimes that creates anxiety for other people. My best friend, one of my best friends and I were actually talking about our to-do lists, and this might resonate with you is that she is someone who feels like the list is just like overbearing, like it's just constant, and it's you take one thing off while that feels really great. It feels like it never gets shorter. Um, and uh I said, okay, well, what you should do, I saw something on TikTok or Instagram or something, and this girl made her to-do list where there's a few items that are actually like needing to be done today. And then the other list is like an ongoing list of figured tasks like applying for a new insurance plan or registering your car, those kinds of things that if those kept getting put off every day, you feel like a complete failure and it's like never ending. And so she's separated, she has two to-do lists, and she's like, it feels a lot better. I'm like, it does feel a lot better because it actually feels like you're accomplishing things within the day.

Netanya 1:01:12

You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

Yeah.

Netanya 1:01:15

Um what is your relationship like to trust and surrender? Ongoing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Yeah. Um I think that with being so far from I mean, really anyone that I love and do trust, I just realize that they're still there and nothing's really changed. Like I might go three months without talking to a friend, but everything picks up just the same. And I know that if I truly was like, I need you to be here, they would fly here in a minute. Um, and that it it really does all work out. Like you have to sometimes sit and really think about the crazy horrible things that have maybe happened in your life and be like, and I'm still here. And like I think when you're not at rock bottom, it's easy to look back and be like, okay, that was horrible. Like that was really rough, but I managed to find the way up and it wasn't perfect. And there's things that I maybe would have done differently, but that you can, like you are still here. And I think that it's also surrounding yourself with people that when you need to surrender and like be vulnerable and be at your lowest, that they're able to hold you up because it's really easy as someone who's independent and strong-willed and doesn't like you don't want to surrender to anyone or you have trust issues because you've been let down, that you only rely on yourself. Um, but it's finding even just two people, one person that you're like, okay, this person, if I just call and say, Yep, not good that they'll do that for you. Um I think my both my parents having us at 45, and then now they're in their mid-70s, that's been the hardest thing of uh-oh, they're not gonna be around forever, you know? And I don't have any friends or anyone in my world that has older parents that understand the inducing anxiety of like they're not gonna be around forever. And so I have my mom is like my that person for me, but I've had to cultivate, you know, some other people like they can also be that person so that when that time comes, it's like my whole world hasn't shattered. Um but yeah, I think this year having to put someone else as the emergency contact on my hospital forms, that's really what does it.

Netanya 1:04:00

That's what does it all right. I have one final question. Yeah. Of everything that we talked about today, what would you have listeners give themselves permission to do after listening to this episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

I think I don't want to say book book a solo trip because I think that that's a financial commitment. But that sometimes that's that's a reason to get out of it. I think find somewhere in like I don't know, a five mile radius of your bedroom and go there with your phone, and of course, in case you need to call someone, but go find somewhere to sit and sit there for 15 minutes maybe to start and then maybe 30 minutes and just sit there. Don't be on your phone, don't read a book, like don't talk to anyone, just see what you notice and like notice how your body's feeling. And you maybe it's only five minutes, but I think that it helps a lot to really regulate yourself and notice how your body's feeling, and notice what feels maybe really good or what feels really weird and just grow on that. And you can find a safe space just in your backyard that maybe is somewhere you've never been before or whatnot. I think that's a good thing. And then if you're ever feeling like things are overwhelming, that can kind of be your safe space. I did that with an EMDR. You have to pick a safe space to take your brain to if it's overwhelming. And my safe space ended up getting ruined, so I'd pick another one, but then I realized it can be multiple places and it could be a physical place, it could be a mental place. But I think that that's super helpful. Thank you for saying yes to this. Mm-hmm.

Netanya 1:06:07

It was so nice to talk to you. It feels like old times. And I just I love the journey that you're on. I love that you're willing to sit in it and that, you know, part of this conversation was like, I don't know. Yeah. And that's that's beautiful because you're still in the process. Right. But the willingness to say I don't have all the answers is an incredibly beautiful place to be. So I'm really, I'm just really glad that you're that you're in that space. And I'm so excited to see whatever life has to bring you. Thanks. Me too. Thank you so much for being here. It means more than you know. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find the show. If you want more of me, head on over to natanyaallison.com and enter your name and email for behind the scenes updates in between shows. New episodes air every Tuesday. We'll see you next week.