EP44: Beyond Domestic Violence | Breaking the Cycle, Reclaiming Self-Worth, and Choosing Peace — with Haven Thomas

In this deeply moving and vital episode, I sit down with my friend Haven Thomas to open up a transparent, empowering conversation about surviving domestic violence, breaking the cycle of trauma bonding, and finding the road to true freedom.

After touching on resilience back in Episode 20, Haven is back to share her journey. This episode isn't just about what she survived—it’s an eye-opening roadmap of how she tactically planned her exit from isolation, reclaimed her power, and completely rebuilt her life from the ground up.

Inside the Episode:

• Understanding the Pattern: How toxic relationship dynamics can subtly condition our boundaries over time, and how to break free from the loop
• The Logistics of Freedom: The practical, intention steps Haven took to safeguard her future and plan a safe path forward
• Rewiring for Peace: How Haven utilized hypnotherapy to calm her nervous system, process trauma, and unlearn the instinct to brace for chaos

This conversation is a powerful reminder that losing your sense of self can happen to anyone—even the strongest and most independent among us. But Haven’s journey proves that the ultimate victory is taking your power back. Healing is about giving yourself a fresh slate, learning to finally exhale, and remembering that you are inherently worthy of a safe, loving, and peaceful life.

Full episode and show notes: netanyaallyson.com/episodes/44

Transcript

Introduction and Trigger Warning

Netanya 0:03

I'm not going to break for this podcast is about those points. It's about the starting points that the things I wish someone had told me that I only understand about. Come on in, people on here, and we're going to talk about all that. I'm your host Natanya, and what I need to know. Before we begin, a quick note. This podcast explores themes such as mental health, addiction, trauma, and recovery. While the stories here are honest and heartfelt, they're not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or medical treatment. Please listen with care and pause anytime you need to. Take whatever resonates for you and leave the rest. Today's guest is Haven Thomas. Trigger warning this episode contains candid and detailed discussions of severe domestic violence, physical and sexual abuse, weapons, and trauma. In this episode, we dive into the realities of narcissistic violence and abuse in the exact moment that Haven realized her life was on the line. We discuss the life-saving under-the-radar logistics of how she tactically planned her escape and was able to get out of the relationship. And we explore how she later used hypnotherapy to help heal severe PTSD flashbacks and rewire her nervous system to accept peace over chaos. Let's dive in. Okay, so before we begin, I want to say a few things. First, I want to offer up a trigger warning to the fact that we're we're here to talk about domestic violence. And um, you know, Haven was on episode 20 back in December, and we I brought up the concept of resiliency. And in that conversation, like that's slightly what I was referring to, but we did not get into that. I did not have her permission to go into that conversation, and I I don't go into things unless someone wants to talk about them. But at the end of the conversation, you said if you would like to talk about this in more detail that you'd be up for doing that. And I said yes. Um, so that's why we're here. And I just I want to take a minute. I got a little emotional. I usually sit with cards and stuff and write out things before I do an episode. And I think just it's always a lot for anyone to go into wounds of any kind, but um it's one thing to do so in a meeting or where, you know, it's gonna get lost in the air. And it's another to sit down on purpose and talk about things intentionally for the purpose of, you know, hopefully that it may help someone else. So thank you for that just before we even begin. And um I want to just start with one question and then we can go into we can go into it from there. And that is why is this important for you to talk about?

The Importance of Sharing Experiences

Haven 3:01

I think that I have carried a lot of shame about what happened. And so I feel that it's important to like be able to recognize that it doesn't need to be a shameful thing, really. And that I really didn't ever think I was gonna come out on the other side. So if I could even just be a voice for one person to be like, this is gonna be okay, that's very important to me. You know, I really think that uh this is a it's a it's a tough it's a touchy subject. Yeah. And I think that everybody can relate to going through a bad relationship in whatever way it may be. Um for me, I I I started my my high school boyfriend, I dated him for a couple years, and he would drink in excess. Um, he was drowning out his own whatevers, even you know, in high school, and he would get belligerent and he would become so unmanageable, like very difficult to deal with. Um and he would not hit me, but he would like squeeze me. Like I remember having like bruises on my arms, and he would say really mean, like awful things. Um he like would push me, and that like I knew it was wrong, right? And so I for whatever reason, I just thought I could fix it. And then of course you can't, you can't fix that. So I got away from that relationship, but I think that having that experience sort of conditioned my tolerance level for bad behavior. So I guess I'm just gonna, I'll just tell the kind of this the story as it goes. I had moved to Hawaii in like 2016 with my husband at the time, and that was like a huge culture shock, anyways, just like not having our support system around. Um, and I think I like talked about this briefly before, you know, the the nightlife I was used to was non-existent, and we were living in a house up in the jungle, and so it happened to be that my across the street neighbor um was a regular at the restaurant that I was working at. And so I'd gotten to know him, come to find out we're neighbors, and so we started hanging out with him a lot, um, partying and stuff. And then I it came to be that like I had Fridays off, and so every Friday he would like take me to show me like something cool on the island. Like he was born and raised there. And so we built like this friendship that was really nice, and he like really felt like somebody that um was a big support for me at that time. I had realized very quickly getting to Maui that my relationship was not going to work. And I think having all this time that I was spending with another man, as innocent as it was, just naturally sort of developed into me falling in love with him.

Early Relationships and Patterns of Abuse

Haven 6:54

Um and it made leaving my husband very easy. And I ended up jumping straight into that, which I think, you know, looking back in my life, I've always been that type of person. Like I all like I'm a habitual serial monogamist. Like I just like go one to the other. And I never really have given myself an opportunity to like breathe in any sort of ways. So I think that the way that I left my marriage was shitty. And through step work and stuff, I definitely am able to like see my faults in that. Um, but the way that the relationship had turned out, the one that I went into, so terribly, all I could think to myself was like, wow, like I've really got my karma for leaving my husband like this, which I don't think is true at any point anymore. So the first year of me being with this guy was great. You know, he would show me all these things, he owned his own business, he would take me places and he worked at nights. And I I thought that his circadian rhythm was just like accustomed to working night hours. Um but like about a year in, he started getting like really edgy. Like he was quick to snap. I'd be like, whoa. And he had always he had always had a temper, but something changed, and I was like, okay, it started being me walking on eggshells because I was like, ah, he seems like volatile. And he became incredibly violent, and then the violence turned towards me. And so the first time that we had gotten into a fight where he hit me, I was taken aback. I was like, whoa, I didn't realize this is what we were doing. I'd went and confided in one of my friends on the island about what happened, and she's like, um, also born and raised in Maui, and was like, oh, why didn't you hit him back? And I was, it blew my mind. That concept of hitting him back, like, what? She's like, Yeah, I just I just hit him back. Like, whoa. So I started looking around, and like all the girls were like, Yeah, like the boys get crazy. I don't know. I'm like, whoa, like this is a culturally acceptable thing. Like, this isn't even just a one, like it really put things in perspective. But having that cultural acceptance also allowed me to excuse the behavior more. So this continued to be a thing where like he was becoming crazier and crazier, and I couldn't figure out what was happening. I come to find out, I found some paraphernalia, and I wasn't familiar with methamphetamines at that point. And I'd come to realize that that is what he had been doing. And I think, you know, like of course, duh, me being so naive, like he's working all night and he like somehow has energy in the day and happens to snap at a drop of a dime. Like, you know, the writing's on the wall.

Netanya 10:35

But if you didn't know that, you know.

Haven 10:37

Oh yeah, no, I didn't. So that kind of like heightened my awareness of like, whoa, okay. This just changed a little bit. So there had been an an experience that I had. We had moved into this house that just like once we moved into this house, it was the second house we had moved into together, shit just started getting really weird. We had a tile floor in that house, like a lot of the islands do have um tile floors, and he would like bang my head into the floor. So I was like getting head injury, like I would like pass out and not remember it. And then I the next day, it would just go straight into love bombing. And I was like, oh god. So there was one morning I was folding laundry, and I like had these towels, and he comes walking out of the room, and I'm like, man, this guy looks crazy. And he like grabbed these two towels, and I was like, why is he holding them like that? And he starts to smother me, and I start blacking out, and I could feel myself suffocating, and I found some crazy like force of energy just to get him off of me. And he turned and looked me dead in the eyes and said, You know, I'm gonna fucking kill you, right? And it gave me chills. I was like, Oh, I think I'm in, I think this is not good. I don't think this is good,

Escalation of Violence and Cultural Acceptance

Haven 12:11

and it was unprovoked. Like other times had been like I might have not put his clothes away correctly, and so he would snap or whatever. Like this was just out of nowhere, and I it heightened my awareness of danger for sure, but I didn't react to that, and I didn't tell anybody about that either, because I was like, oh, he doesn't mean it, you know. Um well, fast forward, I don't know, a month later, I'm in the kitchen doing dishes. I had got this hat that it's a reference to the Bible, and it's like he and then greater sign, like the mathematical greater sign, me. And I, or I, he's greater than I, or something. And I was like, Oh, I like that hat. And he's like, Don't get that hat. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna get the hat. So the next morning I'm wearing the hat in the kitchen doing dishes, and he wakes up and he comes up and he like kicked me in my leg so hard that I like instantly collapsed to the ground. And he was like, I told you not to wear that hat. And then he spit on me and like left the house. And I was like, holy cow, like I can't walk. I'm looking at my leg, it's immediately like turning purple. So I'd gotten a ride to the hospital um, and they um had deduced that I had gotten compartment syndrome, which a lot of people see if you um get into a car accident where you're like pinned between the door, or really you have to have a lot of impact. Um, and it your muscle collapses down to your bone, is what happens. So the hospital, though, was so concerned, they were way more concerned about me telling them who did this to me than they were with like helping me. And I just that seemed crazy to me. Because clearly I can't tell you who's hurting me. Like, you see, this is for a hat. What it what what do you think is gonna happen if, you know, if I if the cops show up? Like, are you out of your mind? So I couldn't walk on that leg or hold any weight, like my movement of my leg was non-existent for like three months. And after the leg incident, I I was like, I'm moving out, I gotta move out. And my parents had actually come out to Hawaii at that point um to help me move out. And I didn't realize what I had looked like because I I had been so accustomed to seeing myself. Um, but I was covered in bruises, head to toe, constantly covered. And it had just become normal. And I was like, not thinking I would just I bruise easily. I bumped myself, I bruise, I you know, and the look on my mom's face when she saw me, I was like, oh, yeah, I must look really bad. So my dad had taken me, they wanted to go back to the hospital because they really didn't give me very much information they because they just wanted a police report really, um, to make sure I didn't need to fly and go get surgery because it can be really dangerous. The blood can clot and can cause, you know, a stroke. So after that, he took me straight to the police's office to get a restraining order. And we're sitting in the office and they have this this wheel. It's a cycle of abuse hanging on, it's a chart on the wall in this lady's office. And my dad is looking at it and he's like, Do you see that that chart there? And I was like, Yeah. And he was like, Okay, well, are you reading it? And I'm like, Yeah, what? He's like, that's exactly what's happening to you, Haven. You were in this exact loop of, you know, like tension building, and then him hurting me, and then him really working hard to get me back, and then a period of calm where everything is fine, just long enough to like start to feel a little more settled, and then right back into it. And I was like, Oh, yep, yep, I see that. So at this point, I had moved out, gotten a different place, and he would follow me around. Like I kept seeing him everywhere. Um, coming to find out later when my parents were in town, he was watching us go into the police office to get the restraining order. Like he had known that I had the restraining order on him before I even filled out the paperwork, which was creepy to me. Knowing all this stuff, I was like, why are you, what is going on? And I like felt proud of myself and empowered for that couple of months that I had left. And I don't know how he did it. You know, I was I got my leg better. I had started to get my sanity back and my peace of mind back, and started to like get into a flow and a rhythm, find some friends. Um, we weren't allowed to have people at our house. He didn't want anybody knowing where we lived ever. So it was kind of this like brief period of like me having a life in

The Cycle of Abuse and Isolation

Haven 18:03

Hawaii, which I was stoked about. But somehow he brought me back into the fold. And at this point, my dad had come out again to visit me. It was over Christmas, and the guy had shown up and he wanted to apologize to my dad. And like they had worked, like he like fully got everybody back on his team, won everyone back over. And from this point, when I moved back in with him again, this point that things got increasingly more violent. Like as violent as they were before, like he had already proven to himself that he could treat me, however, that I would still come back and that my family wasn't gonna do anything about it. Um and he started like beating me in the face. I would go to work just purple on one side of my face. Um, and then it started getting so bad that he didn't want me working anymore because he was blaming me that I was gonna draw too much attention to the with the bruises on my face. So he didn't want me working anymore. And I was like, oh, alright. So I would do some like cleaning jobs or some stuff that I could do by myself. It was in this time period that I started doing custom-made meal plans for like bodybuilders, so I could like prep all the food and deliver it. So I was still trying to do something, but I just had become fully isolated at that point. And I it was starting to look grim. No, not to mention there's a child involved in this. Yes, I'm not my child. Um but she had become somebody I cared deeply for. She was when she was in our care, I wanted to make sure she was not exposed to any of this, you know, and her dad was volatile. I would jump in. Like I just didn't want her to see this type of behavior. And he it and she didn't for a couple years, um I I feel that she wasn't aware of what was happening. But then COVID happened. And during this point, even before this point, I had not been working. So I had already been at home, which he loved because he could know where I was. It didn't stop or reduce the violence really at all. But as long as he felt in control, that it was the best for him. There would there was an incident where I like finally had gotten up the nerve to go again. And I was going to fly to California. I had a plane ticket to go to Tommy.

Netanya 21:32

Um and Tommy was a friend at the time.

Haven 21:36

Yeah. So Tommy has been a close friend of mine since I was, I met Tommy when I was like 16. I've known Tw Tommy for like 20 years. And even with my very first boyfriend, he actually, and I didn't know this until later, had pulled him aside at the gym one day and was like, Hey, I saw you bruised. My friends, like, you can't do that. And it's just funny, like. How, you know, he's just been ever present in my life and just always a rock to me. But, you know, there was a time that guy had come home in a rage one night and had a gun. And he's running around the house with this damn gun chasing me around. And I was terrified. I was like, he's gonna sh he's gonna shoot me tonight. Like I'm going to die. Um, I was in a bush in the front yard, just trying to be as quiet as possible. And I like got on the phone, I called Tommy for whatever reason and was just like, I think this is the end. And Tommy could hear him running around in the yard looking for me, popping off shots with this gun. And I was like, this is terrible. Now I was gonna leave. I wanted my cat and I wanted a backpack, and I was just gonna get on a plane and I was just gonna get out of the situation. And I got to the house and he wouldn't let me in the house. And I was like, come on, this doesn't need to be like this. And he had he kept hitting me. He had picked me up and thrown me into the yard. He had punched me in my face, my like eye ball was bruised from him hitting me in the eye. And I'm on the phone with my grandmother. Like, I don't know what to do. I don't know. He was not gonna let me get in there. And she was like, oh, just call for a police escort just to get your stuff. Well,

Legal Troubles and Injustice

Haven 23:39

I call for a police escort. Well, here's the thing is that his grandfather used to be chief of police on a different island. But even though it was a different island, it still is, you know, the family name. Good God. So the cops show up. He tells them that I beat him with a mag light. I'm getting arrested. I'm so confused. Like, why am I being like, why am I being arrested? I'm clearly like my face is bruised, my body is like, I'm clearly the battered person here. Why am I going to jail? And I like couldn't figure it out. I I don't even have a speeding. Like, I just was so lost. And I get to the jail, and I end up actually spending 10 days in jail because they wouldn't grant me bail, because I was getting ready to leave the island when all this occurred, and so it was a flight risk. Well, his daughter had been at home, even though she hadn't seen anything, because she was there, the state had a felony child abuse charge for me. And in addition to that, he had said I hit him and was beating him with a mag light. So I had felony assault for that as well. And I come to find out my bail is $500,000. And I'm going into jail. I'm so scared. They put that jail was a wild experience, but they put me in like the highest maximum. They called it the bad girls' club because everybody in this part of the jail had to be a half a million dollars or more for bail. And everybody was looking at me like, you do not belong here. And I was like, I agree. Yes. And that was very illuminating. The one woman next to me, she had bludgeoned somebody to death with a Costco-sized bottle of vodka in a McDonald's parking lot. Another person had arm drop. Like all these people had very serious charges, and I was just trying to get a cat. I'm like, what is going on here? And the injustice of it felt so wild. So I'm in there for 10 days, and um I finally get released, and I like did not know what I was gonna do. Like I didn't really have a plan. But I walk out of the jail, and who's sitting there in the parking lot waiting? Which to this day I do not know how I don't know how he knew I was getting released. I I can speculate. Um and here we go again. Come back to me. I'm so sorry, da-da-da, feeding me all this BS. Now, going back this time, I realized, you know, that this isn't this is gonna end. He is gonna kill me. He would drive me to this certain spot on the back side of the island and show me this particular spot and say, this is where I'm gonna put your body, and nobody is ever gonna find you. And the scary part is it's true. Like, had he done that, nobody ever would have found me back there. And he started saying this more frequently after this jail situation, but I I like felt so hopeless. Like COVID happened, COVID was happening, so I wasn't working. Now I just gotten out of jail, like I was just so discombobulated. But I knew I was gonna need to find a way out. And I knew from experience that I couldn't just announce that I was going to leave because look where it got me. So I started slowly getting rid of stuff, and it was easy to mask it as just like, oh, getting rid of clothes or getting rid of my stuff. Like he was thrilled that, you know, let me make myself less present in the home. I was trying to play it on that angle because I knew I was gonna need to be able to start having everything ready because when it was time, it was gonna be like go time. So for months I could kind of feel this brewing, and I'm sort of preparing myself. And we get into a fight one day, and he punches me in the nose and breaks my nose. Now I've always had a fear of breaking my nose, this irrational fear. I never mountain bike because I didn't want to break my nose. All these things. And when that happened, I was like, I'm least. Like that, that was the straw, which is wild after all of the violence I had seen. Like that was probably the least amount, but that was what I needed to go. And I called my mom

Breaking Free and the Aftermath

Haven 29:13

and said, I'm ready. She said, Okay, here is a plane ticket. And I found myself with my cat and a duffel bag, and I left the island the next morning. Uh, the rest of that day was wild. And I get to Denver, and he and his buddy that night decided to pee all over my duffel bags, like pee in all my luggage. So I get to my grandma's house, everything smells like urine and jungle, which I was like, this is terrible. Um and I also hadn't felt safe in a long time. So when I finally got back to Colorado, I I like collapsed. I slept for days because I just finally could I had been accustomed to such a heightened sense of awareness for like three years at this point. And I started to try to figure out what I was gonna do. Well, the problem for me was that I just was a sucker for this person. He had even flown back out to Colorado, like a month after I got there, and tried to drag me onto a plane to go back to Hawaii with him. He came to recapture me, if you will. And I had gotten away from him at that point, and that was the last time I'd seen him in person. But it's crazy that I had even allowed that. Like the fact that I thought that it would change any of those times. I had clear evidence of the contrary, but I kept thinking that this was gonna be the time that he was gonna have some great awakening and become nice. It doesn't work like that, you know. Now, something I realized after that, um, probably like a year after being back in Colorado, I started dating this person, and he like was not very nice. And I realized I had this epiphany one day that I was like, why am I with this person? And I was like, oh, I just needed somebody to be mean to me. I had this weird addiction to the pain, to the drama, to the like, and that was the moment that I realized that I was gonna need to do a lot more work to figure out what was driving this whole situation because I I was a moth to a flame for this shit, and I couldn't figure my way out of it. Um so you know, it's been it's been it was a long time even after that. He would call me, he was constantly, you know, like this desire for control was insatiable for this man. And I was all too willing to allow it to happen because at first I was getting shown all these cool places, I was getting these gifts. By the end of it, he had drugs, and I knew that if he beat me up, he would feel so bad and he would get me so high, and I would feel so much better for a brief amount of time. And I had really like given up on myself, like the physical violence is so jarring, but it's really the mental degradation that had the most impact on me, I feel. Like I I got to a point where I would much rather him hit me than me have to listen to him tell me what he thought about me. Because that like was insidious. It was poisoned to my blood, you know? And I kept hearing it and it just like was seeping into me. My my self-confidence was non-existent, and I had come to believe that that was as good as I could do. Coming out of it on this side of things, I realized that there were many things that were happening. He had slowly isolated me. He had convinced me that my family didn't care. Even though, like, there was a time that the cops had come to do a welfare check, my parents had sent a welfare check, the cop didn't even, it was whatever. I had a black eye. Like you could have easily done something at that point, but they weren't interested in doing anything about it. And I think that as long as I was dependent on him, then he then I would be willing to put up with whatever he wanted. And I uh I I was a perfect, like looking back at it now, I was the perfect mark for this type of person. There's I have a lot of issues sometimes. I I I feel like the word narcissistic and gaslighting and all these things just get thrown out so loosely. And I I really have an issue with it because this man was a genuine narcissist. This man

Healing and Self-Discovery

Haven 35:01

was violent, he was narcissistic, and he was a drug addict, and that's like the trifecta of the worst things that you could come like combine, you know, and narcissism goes far beyond just being self-centered, you know, like there's so much to it. And there was even a point, at one point, uh, my old boss, she could kind of see what was going on. She had sent me some links to some YouTube videos with this doctor who talked about being in a relationship with a narcissist. And I did find some good, valuable information. There is a lot of stuff on YouTube. You know, if you are somebody who is experiencing violence in your home, if you just even type in domestic abuse advice into YouTube, there's um one lady that's really predominant that comes up um when it comes to narcissism. Doctor, I think her name is like Ramini something. She does like talk shows and stuff. Um I think it's Dr. Ramini.

Netanya 36:09

She does it, she does an awesome job and she talks a lot about narcissism, and she's very good.

Haven 36:13

Yeah. So I found solace in that. There was another Dr. Dr. Melanie Evans, Joel, uh, she has three names that I found a lot of helpful information about. But I had to unprogram myself. It's taken a long time. It was not an easy thing to do. I found a lot of success with hypnotism. Uh, I found an incredible therapist. When I had first come back, not to mention, I had three, like I had a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and a therapist, all working alongside my general practitioner trying to figure out ways to calm me down because, you know, another thing that gets thrown out a lot is PTSD, you know, like we all experience trauma and stress. Um, what makes PTSD different is a visceral reaction to a trigger point. And it was debilitating for me. I would have these flashbacks that would cause me to go into an extraordinary um anxiety attack. And it's it's taken a long time to feel safe and to deprogram myself and to not blame myself because I think a lot of the times for me, I'm like, I'm such a strong, smart, independent woman. Like, how did I fall for this? You know, and the fact of the matter is it wasn't an overnight thing. Like this was a slow, this was a slow process of breaking me down and becoming dependent on somebody. Um, it was really painful for my family because I had been convinced, he convinced me that they don't care. And they were so, so far away that that really like I was the perfect mark for this person. I was very vulnerable. Knowing now what I know, you know, there are a lot of resources. And one thing I I didn't know what was gonna happen when I called my parents. Part of me thought they were gonna say, all right, figure it out. You know, like I had been also so programmed, like I expected them to like laugh at or something. I did not expect that they would just do anything they could to extract me from that situation, which of course they would. You know, they're they're my parents. But I think that people that are in these abusive situations have such a low value on themselves. Like I had been told I was worthless for years, you know, and I also had a chip on my shoulder, you know. I definitely couldn't, I was angry. I was so angry when I came back. And I would get so mad when people would approach me, why would you ever leave Hawaii? And finally I was like, because I was getting beaten. And then they would get really uncomfortable, and I kind of felt vindicated, like, yeah, mind your own business. You know. It wasn't the right way to handle it. But for me, I was just so unwell. And that's really like through this process was when my drinking really went coincided with this. Was like, I started drinking a handle of vodka a day because I knew I was gonna get hit. And if I was gonna get hit, I might as well not feel it, you know? So it was just like this cycle of self-destruction on top of a situation that I had lost control over. I realized that I always was feeling inadequate as a younger person. Like I had something to prove. I was gonna make it, I was gonna make something of myself. So that came out in these like wounded soldiers that I wanted to try to fix or save or whatever, like my first boyfriend, right? He had a lot of issues, he had a lot of things he was going through, but I was gonna fix them and I like I was gonna make it better because ta-da. And like that did not work, you know, and so finding that same pattern of behavior, you know, I married the person I married because I was gonna, I was worth it because I was gonna prove to these people that I made it somehow. And I ended up in a relationship that didn't serve me with somebody who was not physically abusive towards me, but you know, was cheating on me and doing all sorts of other things. So, like that's not having value in myself either. Coming directly into a person who was very violent in a household where I was scared for my life, where there were guns in the home on multiple occasions that I was very certain I

Understanding Domestic Violence Dynamics

Haven 41:38

was going to be shot because you cannot rationalize with somebody who has not slept in days and is having these psychosis, like a psychotic break. Like it's dangerous, you know. I think that's like the most dangerous effect of methamphetamines is the psychosis that the people go into. So I've had the benefit of hindsight of being able to like really break down these things, and recovery has been the catalyst for me to go down this rabbit hole and to identify these behaviors and fears and see why I continue to make these similar mistakes over and over again. Um, I do want to say also, you know, like I did not grow up in a home with abuse. Like there was not, I did not see this anywhere. So I was not conditioned in that way. Like I know a lot of times people saw it in their homes when they were children. And so um that was not my experience. And I would also like to say now, like, I'm in an incredibly loving relationship. Yeah. And um, Tommy is my best friend. When I was going through my stuff in Hawaii, he actually was, and this is something he was going, he was in a relationship with a woman who was abusing him. So I think like that's the other side of this that doesn't get a lot of attention either, is that like there are plenty of women who get very violent with their partners and feel vindicated to do so because they're a girl. And I think it's really awful, like I feel for the men that put find themselves in these situations because the moment that they react or try, you know, then they're automatically in the wrong. Yeah. Um, I don't know what it's gonna take. Um, but I really feel strongly like we gotta do better. You know, I our system is not set up to help people in domestic violence situations. It's very hard to get restraining orders, it's even harder to enforce them. It's like you make these reports and you can clearly see that somebody's hurt, but somehow they say there's never enough evidence. And really, our system isn't willing to help anybody until somebody dies. And I just think we can do better. And I would love to help catalyst a change in like, yeah, there's gotta be a way that we can protect people better.

Netanya 44:30

Yeah. I have a quick question. Yeah. Um, I want to talk about, you know, you talked many times about how dangerous he is. And I'm curious about what I what I would call the break point

Leaving an Abusive Relationship: The Break Point

Netanya 44:44

of when like the first time you left, the second time you left, like inside those moments, how did you leave, like tangibly? Did he know that you were leaving? Did he I know he knew he obviously he peed all over your duffel bag, so he knew you were getting on a plane. Did he know why you were leaving? Like what how did you actually get him to let you get out the door or not know? You know?

Haven 45:07

So we um when I actually left for Colorado, that time okay, the first time I left he had was when he had hurt my leg. And that was so severe that like I think he spooked himself because they were very interested in finding out who did that to me. And my parents had come out. So like I think that having other having them as buffers, like they he knew he couldn't misbehave. The other time was that I actually like left the house physically was when I came to Colorado. And what had happened was we were renting an Ohana on somebody's property. So the the person who owned the property lived in a house behind us. And so I went to her and I you know I I think that sh she wasn't dumb. I mean, I'm sh certain that she could hear things going on, and she had I had stayed at her house overnight that night. So I had like a protection of sorts, you know, there was another person involved. I think that had I not had her there, it would have been much harder. Especially because I had already realized that the cops weren't interested in helping me. So I think that if somebody's wanting to get out of a situation, my advice, the one thing I did for myself that I think benefited me a lot was slowly downsizing my items, really getting it to where I like rearranged my closet to know that here's the bag. Put him like I had timed myself before, like I could get what I needed, get my important documents. Like those are the types of things, like really I had to try to make sure were in a in a row for myself because I needed to make sure I didn't leave my birth certificate or my social security card or that stuff. Granted, I had to leave my car and I still owed payments on it, and I wanted it repossessed. And he is still driving it somewhere on the island, and I still have to pick, you know, pay $7,000 for a car I don't own. Because when I called the police to tell them that I had a stolen vehicle, they called him and then called me back and said, no, no, he said you abandoned it. So now it's his car. And I was just baffled, like all this is baffling. Um, downsizing your things, making sure that you have a plan,

Planning for Safety: Practical Steps to Leave

Haven 48:17

you know, because typically, if you're gonna be able to leave, you're gonna have to do it right then, like in an instant. There are some incredible resources for women in particular. I had sent you, you know, there's the wanna talk about it national service hotlines.

Netanya 48:41

Um, and they have help. I have what you sent me if you're okay with me reading it. Yeah, yeah. Um it was the National Domestic Violence Hotline. The website is thehotline.org. And the phone number is 1-800-799-Safe S-A-F-E, which ends up being 1-800-799-7233. Or you can text start to 8878. Yeah.

Haven 49:12

And those um, those volunteers that work with um the domestic violence hotline, they are trained to be aware of resources that are in your area, um, and are prepared to help help you in any way um that they can to get you to somewhere safe. It's very it feels very uh scary. The thought of being without him by the end was scarier than with him because I knew what he was capable of. So it is true what people say, you know, leaving is the is the most dangerous point because people that are abusers typically are doing it as a power play. And once you start taking back your power, you know, there was a time when he was hurting me and I said, Why are you doing this? And he was like, Because you're smarter than me and I don't fucking like it, you know. So, like that says it all, right? Like it's all a control situation. And, you know, I think that I had been manipulated to believe that nobody cared enough to help me. And I have a feeling that a lot of other women find themselves in that situation as well, and like people do care and people will help you. And I think that even at your lowest, lowest, lowest, low, somebody who cares about you will show up for you. You know, in this process, I had lost all of my friends. I think the ones that I did tell what was going on were so sick of me not doing anything about it that it was too painful for them to be involved with me. But in years since, I have regained a lot of those relationships back. And I know now that had I needed it, I could have called and any any one of them, even though I hadn't been speaking to them, cared enough that they would have helped me. So um, if there is somebody who can relate to this story that knows they're in a situation that's dangerous, there is definitely a way to get out of the situation. And there are definitely people who you may feel don't love you that certainly would do anything for you. And just being vulnerable enough to ask for the help is the hardest part, you know. I there's a lot that goes into this, you know. I've had to spend I my flashbacks are wild and I still get them. And I um there's a lot that will come back into my head at times where I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe like I have it just it's unit so unbelievable to me. Like I like have these fat flashbacks and view it in third person almost. Like I can't believe that I survived some of the stuff that I did. You know, I think there's a lot of elements of this. I think that the sexual abuse side of it as well, there were plenty of times that he would rape me, you know, and like people get it gets confusing when you're with somebody. Like, how does somebody you date rape you? You know, it's like, no, when I don't consent to this and it's happening, that's unacceptable. But all of these things are things that I made excuses for, all these behaviors that I uh was willing to let go of. So finding a balance now for me,

Therapeutic Approaches to Healing

Haven 53:25

I really have I found a lot of solace through therapy. I did a lot, a lot, a lot of therapy. The hypnotherapy, I rec um I said earlier, had mentioned that. I found that to be incredibly helpful.

Netanya 53:42

Can we talk about that a little bit more detailed? Because I haven't talked about it on here and I haven't experienced it. So if you can just share what that's like in general or what your experience was. Totally.

Haven 53:53

I um so what it is, it's free programming the synapses in your brain. So when you think of one thing that you associate it with something entirely different. So, like when a trauma response happens, and like if I start thinking of something that triggers me instead of it spiraling me into a bad place, my brain has made a new connection to something more positive. So, really what my experience with it was was a lot of like um you you're meditated into a trance, and then it's like a lot of positive affirmations being fed to you. So, like he would do a therapy session with me, we would talk about some of the things that I was feeling like really overwhelmed by or triggered by. And then in the hypnosis, he would start feeding me like positive affirmations that related to these trigger points. And so I was able to start like my brain synapses changed. And it's funny because I didn't, it's it's not like I came out of these hypnosis sessions like feeling a whole new sense of relief. But like in the long run, I've noticed over the past several years, I'll make the connection and I'm like, oh, oh yeah, like that, like it really worked. It was very cool. Um, so yeah, doing those, those types of treatments, I I've benefited from greatly. I know a lot of people find a lot of relief in the um the I what is the therapy and device? Yeah. So I know some people that have had um some really bad abusive relationships that they have worked through some of their childhood trauma in and their domestic trauma through that type of um treatment, which is really cool. I mean, I still think that um I could benefit from more therapy, of course. Um, but moments like this when I'm able to just give it a name and it was an experience that happened to me, you know, like there are so many crazy stories that in the long run just it all boils down to like I felt unworthy of love in a way that was so deeply like understood on a core level that I was willing to become anybody but myself to please somebody else. And I'm grateful that today I don't have that.

Netanya 57:03

And how did that, you know, I I realize that's a much bigger question than this, but how did that change for you over time from going from that to where you are now, which I know is a different experience? What was that like? Breaking that pattern, right? Or the beliefs that were in there.

Haven 57:20

Yep. So definitely like um Tommy is such an incredible human, my partner. Um, he has known me forever. So like it's really helpful that he already knows. I don't have to tell him any like he lived through it real time. That's incredibly helpful. But I still find myself like I have weird behaviors where I'll be like, I make a mistake of something and then I'm like incredibly apologetic, and Tommy has to be like, Haven, like I'm not upset that you dried my sweatshirt. Like it's gonna be okay. Where those types of situations in my past like really really haunted me. Um

Rebuilding Trust and Community After Trauma

Haven 58:15

I think it's been interesting to accept like compliments and accept that like it's not not everybody has ulterior motives, but you know, I've had to really like retrain my brain on that like addiction to the danger and addiction to the violence and addiction to the chaos. And recovery has really been helpful with putting names to those sorts of reactions and feelings, you know. Doing the step work has helped me a lot in identifying patterns of behavior and understanding why I do them, you know, like what am I afraid of? Um, but it's been a it's it's been a slow settling into a relationship of peacefulness, you know, like I cried every day for years. And I like I don't the last time I cried was because I accidentally dropped my green beans on the floor in from roasting them, and I was very upset about it. So like that's the kind of things I have to cry about now, you know? Um, but it has been like there's an arousal factor to that aggression in that like I've really noticed a lot, like I have had to unlike rework some of these um really toxic ways of viewing intimacy because I was just had such a high arousal constantly of being in danger all the time. It has this crazy effect on your arousal system in your brain, you know. So, like when things are mellow and feeling good and safe, you know, like it was weird to me to be like, oh, okay, I can just, you know, I'm not having to barter with sex anymore. That was huge. I found myself like truly, I think it saved my life on multiple occasions. And so reworking a balanced relationship with like, oh, this isn't, this isn't something that is like leverage, you know?

Netanya 1:00:49

What does self-care look like for you today to keep building, you know, your confidence and muscles and moving forward into healing? What does that look like for you now?

Self-Care and Healing Practices

Netanya 1:01:00

That's a great question.

Haven 1:01:01

I have found a lot of peace in like nesting. So making my space nice, creating a place that like I feel I belong in because I was so prepared to leave wherever I was at the drop of a hat that like it's nice to like settle and like feel at home somewhere. So like that's been a huge part of my process. I think just physical exercise helps a lot. And also doing things like this, you know. I'm not I'm not afraid to be open and honest about my experiences. I think that I mean, there's a lot of detailed stories that are certainly like like mind-blowing and exciting to hear. Um, but I don't know that that would like getting into the nitty-gritty is that helpful for anybody, but being able to talk on a like broader scale of I've been there and I know what it feels like. And let me tell you, like, you can get out of it. Like, that's huge. You know, I've met plenty of women in recovery that also um are actively trying to leave situations that are not safe for them. Um, and I've been more than happy to be somebody to call upon. Um, you know, so I think that just every day that I wake up and I do my best that day, like that's honoring myself in my healing, you know, like making these autonomous decisions to like do what I want in my day, like that's huge because that was taken away from me. I didn't have a choice. Staying sober is a huge part of my healing experience. I don't think, I don't think it would be possible for me to have rational thought if I was still drinking, I wouldn't be able to process this properly. And honestly, I think that a lot of things could be avoided. Like a lot of fights happen because of alcohol. And a lot of things could be avoided if it wasn't around. Granted, I think that what I went through was at such a core level of this person's behavior. His ex had warned me when I started dating him to be very careful with him. And I had I did that thing that I do where I was like, she just doesn't want to see me with him, you know. And it's like, nope, he actually is very scary and very dangerous.

Netanya 1:03:46

Yeah. Thank you for sharing all this. I got, I just I think I was holding it all in. So I just started to let myself feel it, and I'm just letting myself cry. Um it's just a lot, right? That's a lot for anyone to have to witness to go through. And there's so many layers beyond just what's actually happening externally, right? The internal experience, the um, the worthiness factor, any part of you that believes that you deserve this or this is easier than other, you know, all of those like layers. There's so much so much to all of that. I'm curious about I have one, I have I'm gonna ask this and then I have one final question. But we talked about isolation. I I from my understanding of this in general and just from your story, that isolation, trying to get someone to be isolated and alone to believe that they're alone is a big factor in this being a successful experience on the end of the predator. Um, I'm curious as to how that has been for you to like undo the beliefs of isolation and to develop community and essentially rebuild the belief that you're not alone and that you can ask for help. Like you said, from people that were there before, but also new people. Like, how do you build trust in the new community that you're now finding?

Haven 1:05:14

Time. Time, you know, everything. As I get further away from that point in my life, it becomes easier for me to be able to unravel. Um, and it's just been time. I mean, this has been only six years since I've been out, or five or six years since I've been out of this situation, you know? So like I have had to have a lot of patience with myself. And I I will say, like, I definitely am not the same person that I was. you know, that was very hard for my family to swallow because when you go through a situation such as the one I went through, it it breaks your spirit. Um, and I felt a lot of me get lost. And so I've had to slowly pick up the pieces of like the things that make me me, you know, the parts of my personality that really bothered him, you know, my gregarious attitude and my like, but also like my naive sense of trust in people. I was a perfect mark. So like I definitely am way more cautious about looking at people much differently. I take my time to like let people into my life now and that's okay. But like it shows in weird ways where like I don't like people knowing where I live and like just weird those weird behaviors where it's like okay that didn't you know like it's irrational now. But building that sense of community was very helpful in recovery. But also like I'm really blessed to have Tommy because he has like this innocence and like um his whimsical attitude like really attracts people. Like he like really loves people.

Netanya 1:07:44

Yeah.

Haven 1:07:44

And so like that makes it easier for me to begin to allow people back into my life. But also like the quality of people that are in my life are not people that I'm finding in bars.

Netanya 1:07:59

Yes.

Haven 1:07:59

And I think like that not to I'm not trying to you know sound higher than anybody else but like when I was drinking and doing drugs I was hanging out with people that were drinking and doing drugs and addicts are very selfish people. And I've since I've not been surrounding myself with addicts I find myself having relationships with people that are not based on what have you done for me lately. I think that there is a lot that is still being rebuilt currently yeah um but giving myself a fresh slate truly coming out here and and just starting from fresh and allowing people into my life to like come naturally and also it's helpful that like the people out here that know any part of my past is because I told it to them not because of the coconut wire you know where like being in steamboat everybody already had some sort of idea of what had happened before I ever even said any words.

Netanya 1:09:20

So like that left me guarded also yeah and I just want to say like I think I heard you before when you said that you have weird behavior and I want to destigmatize that as not being weird at all. It's behavior based on past you know experiences that you had and it's just trying to protect yourself and trying to find your way through right I don't think that that's totally weird.

Haven 1:09:44

Totally and it definitely plays into the you never know what people are carrying around with them kind of thing. Yes. So having that is one way like I do have a lot more um compassion and patience for people now because I don't know what or why somebody's acting weird or perceive what I'm perceiving as weird because I probably am making some other people feel that way too. So I think um there's just we're all in this together and I think remembering that there are plenty of people that are good people that want to see you do well like that's huge.

Netanya 1:10:33

Well and I think I've loved being next to you on this journey right and from the time that we met which was after this happened but still like you know beginnings of recovery to witness muscle building and you know resiliency is a word I chose for you in the last episode on purpose because I think you demonstrate a a lot of that and that like resiliency with the undercurrent of hope, right? This can get better. Like and I think there's a they get stigmatized too on things of like be you're the strong one, you know, and it's like you also have a heart and are human and that space for compassion and grace. And it's just it's just a really beautiful thing. I feel very honored to to know you and to get to spend time with you when I do you know it's been a while since real life but virtually yeah thank you I love you so much.

Haven 1:11:30

I you know resilience is a it's an action word you have to you have to make the first move in order to change anything.

Netanya 1:11:41

And it's scary. Yeah and that space that I think you explained very beautifully of like there is a time that can be possible to come when you you don't have to hold your breath anymore right when you can not be bracing and relax and that peace and calm that is possible for people.

Haven 1:12:05

Yeah yep I think something too to remember for me I'm like this is a big world like there's a lot of places with a lot of people you know so like getting out of the same little bubble really has broadened my viewpoint and given me a lot of hope in my life.

Netanya 1:12:29

Yeah. All right last question if you could give anyone listening permission to do something after hearing your story and what we just what we just went down what would you give them permission to do?

Empowerment Through Self-Love and Worthiness

Haven 1:12:43

Love yourself remember your self-worth because it's it's something that can be easily taken so it's it's good to look yourself in the mirror and actually say like I love you to yourself it sounds corny I've done it it's helped me you know just remembering that you are worth it you are worthy of love you are worthy of safety and you are worthy of feeling powerful where you stand thank you thank you I'm so grateful for you thank you so much for being here it means more than you know if you enjoyed this episode please share it with a friend or leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Netanya 1:13:34

It helps more people find the show. If you want more of me head on over to nataniallison.com and enter your name and email for behind the scenes updates in between shows. New episodes air every Tuesday we'll see you next week