What I Didn't Know: Building the Life You Recovered For

EP46: Fierce Devotion | Breaking the Old Stories Holding You Hostage — with Amber Dodd

• Netanya Allyson • Season 1 • Episode 47

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What happens when you realize you’ve been fiercely devoted to all the wrong things—to toxicity, negative self-talk, and the old rules that keep you small?

In this powerful episode, I sit down with Amber Dodd to unpack how we break negative core beliefs, reclaim intuition, and own our inherent worth. Drawing from Amber's journey of surviving childhood trauma, addiction, and human trafficking, we explore the deep connection between mind and body—and shift the conversation from just talking about healing to actually taking action.

Inside the episode, we break down:

  • Learning to Dream Bigger: Why fear makes us settle for the familiar, and how to refuse to play small.
  • Over-Thinking as Trauma: How survival loops force us to over-analyze, and how to access true intuition.
  • When the Body Hijacks the Plan: How hypervigilance and a fearful inner child hold our choices hostage.

Until your choices move you tangibly, nothing changes. If you want to travel the world, you have to leave the front door. Every restriction you are shrinking yourself for was invented by someone else—if a rule, belief, or lifestyle doesn't serve you, let it go.

If you're ready to parent your younger self with deeper love and finally take up space, this episode is your gentle, powerful push.

Full episode and show notes: netanyaallyson.com/episodes/46

The Intersection of Recovery and Empathy

Netanya

Before we begin, a quick note. This podcast explores themes such as mental health, addiction, trauma, and recovery. While the stories here are honest and heartfelt, they're not a substitute for professional advice, therapy, or medical treatment. Please listen with care and pause anytime you need to. Take whatever resonates for you and leave the rest. Today's guest is Amber Dodd. In this episode, we get into why we stay loyal to toxic patterns and old rules just because they feel safe, how trauma loops forced us to overanalyze, and how to trust your actual intuition instead. And what to do when your fearful inner child holds your choices hostage and how to connect with them to help set yourself free. Let's dive in. What is your relationship like to devotion?

SPEAKER_03

That's a big word though.

SPEAKER_04

Devoted to fantasy, devoted to toxicity, hoping that should it change, I'm validated. You know, devoted to negative core beliefs because they're the truth in my mind. Right. Yeah. But

Releasing Devotion to Negative Beliefs

SPEAKER_04

today I'm I'm practicing releasing devotion to things that no longer serve me, you know, because I will stay well past the expiration date. And like, yes, I'm devoted to my recovery. Yes, I'm devoted to my husband. Yes, I am devoted to practicing gratitude. But for me, the bigger thing is what am I releasing devotion to that no longer serves me? And that's negative self-talk, negative core beliefs. The idea that I have to make myself small so that I'm not seen. This idea that I can only ever be and do one thing at a time. Say more about that. So, like I was taught when I was four that the only thing I was ever, ever, ever gonna be good for was um a sexual object. And that is how God said that I was to be loved. And I was taught that I it was my duty to keep that a secret. I was taught that when you talk about that, God gets angry and you're going to hell. And so while I had dreams, um, like I wanted to be a high school English teacher at an alternative school. You know, I wanted to be a singer, I wanted to be an artist, um, I wanted to be an interior designer, which we've talked about. I think we're the same per seus. Um yeah. I wanted to be a book writer. Those were dreams that I knew in my core I would never accomplish because people who are put on this earth strictly to be physically used by someone else are only allowed to have dreams. Not goals, not aspirations, not ideas that they could be more, that they could be seen. That is for the imagination, that is for fantasy, that is for escape, not for reality. And so, you know, I struggled mental health and addiction through all of this since I was seven years old. And it's only been, even with like over a decade in recovery and years and years and years and years of therapy and a bit of um electroshock therapy, it's only been recently that I've started to break down all of that and believe that none of that was ever true. Remove the devotion to that idea and aim for more. Right? Because even in like I have three ex-husbands, I'm currently married, even even in those, all of those relationships, when they wanted it, I gave it when I could. And when I couldn't, it was it was I felt bad about me for not being what I was specifically put here to do. And uh, I'm I'm more than my body, I'm more than what's between my legs. I had I have a higher purpose than that. And while I understand and talk about how all of the things that happened to me were not for me or about me, but about the woman and for the woman who's gonna come in behind me, who thinks no one has ever experienced what they've experienced before. Like, she is me, and I am the one who came before. And I'm also the one who came after, and the one who came after her, and the one who came after her, right? And so if we look at if we look at we are all the same thing, essentially. And all of these other people are are capable of and doing all of these other things, why can't I? And so I'm breaking those barriers. Um and it's been hard, right? That's the step work that I'm working on now is breaking down those negative core beliefs. Because I've done it in therapy, right, for a long time. Now it's time to do it in step work. Um, because I've found that doing those things hand in hand and then putting it into practice because I'm real good about talking about some shit because

Practicing Self-Advocacy in Relationships

SPEAKER_04

I'm that self-aware that having an inability to put it into practice. And so it's only been recently as recently as only within the last few months that I've been putting it into practice and reaching for something higher. What does that look like? Um, so that looks like saying yes without asking why would you pick me? Mm-hmm. Just saying yes and thank you without like, are you sure?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Are you sure it's me that you want to come speak at your convention or your celebration, or just to have lunch with on a Saturday afternoon?

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04

Or to come to a pot are you sure?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Just saying yes and and thank you and and I'm honored. Thank you for thanking me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

In my relationship with my husband, it is and this one's actually harder. Putting down the coloring book, turning off the audible book, playing in my in my headphones, and just sitting down to watch a movie with him. Being open to spending quality time rather than quantity time. Cause he's a great, hilarious pain in my ass who fits me in a way no one has ever done before, right? And so holding that in a different way than I used to. Um in my career that means stating my needs, which I I had done. You know, I uh for the last probably two years at work, I have been miserable and like I love what we do. And I keep getting more responsibilities without the pay and title that come with those. And I just take it, right? I'm a high performer, I've always been a high performer, I don't know how to not be a high performer, and don't leave because I don't have a bachelor's degree, right? I need the health insurance. I have family members that have to get infusions every month, and I am grateful to be there because this is the first job that I've gotten and maintained since I got clean, and it's really helped me like mentally. And

Self-Worth and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

SPEAKER_04

so I go in ungrateful for not being seen and grateful that at least I have a job that has some flexibility and insurance, rather than and also they should be honored to have me both things. Grateful to them, and they should be grateful too, because I do so much. And so recently, you know, and every every so often I would ask for a raise, and my boss would say, you know, show me the data of what that looks like, you know, in that in the natural area in our line of work. I'd show him the daddies, like this is great. Um, and then would say, This isn't the right time.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And that's been having it for a couple of years. And so, like more and more and more, I was going in, doing my job, being a high performer, asking for extra tasks, and getting more and more resentful. And uh so a couple of about two months ago is when I started noticing that I make myself smaller, that I don't say yes, that I don't just automatically say thank you, that I don't I hadn't valued myself enough to understand that I hold value for other people. Um, and so really started working on that. And so I went to my boss and I said, Hey, I'm gonna have a meeting. Didn't tell him what the meeting was about. So we had that meeting the next day. And like I get, I'm one of those people, if I'm really passionate about something, I get very emotional. And so they have seen me cry at work. They all know I'm in recovery, like they celebrate that for me. Um, and I did not want to walk into this meeting with that in my head. And so I got on Chat GPT, I was like, can you like help me mock this conversation? You know, you've you've heard enough about my boss that you can kind of role-play this with me. And so we did that, and then I went into this meeting and I took notes with me, and and basically I was like, um, I need more. You know, I I asked him, I said, where do you see me within this organization? And he names this, this person who kind of does what I do I do, except she's salary. And I said, Absolutely not. Like, I like her, and I need I need more than what what she's doing. And he said, Well, where do you see yourself? And I named this person who is actually his boss. And he's like, Whoa. He's like, So you're thinking corporate? I said, No, I'm not thinking corporate, I'm thinking reframing the structure.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And it would be her role that could do that. I said, and so what can we do to get me to that goal? I didn't say, you know, you're not doing enough for me. I didn't say I need more money. I said, I need to do more. I want to do that within this organization, and how can you help me get there? And I did it with confidence, without stuttering, without having to look at my notes, without getting emotional. And so he was actually really receptive to that. And now we have like weekly one-on-one meetings. There's mentorship, there's leadership development. Because I'm tired of waiting for you wanna know the crux of it? I'm tired of waiting for other people to notice me. Thinking that if they could just see me, so much would be different. Well, nothing's gonna be different if I don't freaking do anything. How are gonna people gonna know what I want if I can't tell them that I want more than I need, more than I am more? If I can't talk about that. And so I'm practicing talking about that. Like walking past the fear, stepping out on faith that whatever happens, like it's fine. And I've made it through everything so far. I can make it through some rejection too. And who knows, maybe there won't be.

Netanya

Well, and it's all underlying worth, right? Worthiness. Right, right. And all of that, the funny and beautiful thing about all of that is that it's all made up It is.

SPEAKER_04

It is. I even have I am worthy tattooed on my arm. Uh-huh. And then forget. Yeah.

Netanya

And it's like it comes from most of us learned that somewhere when we're a kid, that I'm either not worthy or there's all these parameters around it that I have to jump through in order to get the thing. And whether that's in a job or money or men or, you know, all of these things that that we've come to believe is truth. And that's not true. And often only lives in our head. And like you said, isn't gonna change. Nobody's gonna change it for you. And like a lot of that does have to do with not only awareness around that you're doing this, that you're functioning it. One of the things I talk about regularly that I didn't understand for a long time was the phrase that you teach people how to treat you. Yes. And I I didn't like it and I didn't understand it because I didn't know what I was getting treated not great in different aspects. And I was like, well, why is that my fault? And when I started going to therapy and um a therapist gave me a word, and that word was codependency, and I was like, Oh, there's books on this. Right. You know, and I had been running around for a very long time. And I mean, compile familial beliefs, beliefs about money, beliefs about how you earn things in the world, about what you're capable of, about what your status could be, or what car you drive, or whatever. Implement all these things about who you are and what level you can get to of any of those things. And I had a very um specific level that I could get to, and it was not hard. And I can remember um this is I don't talk about my ex-husband that much, but I will credit him with this because this was a conversation we had one day, and I was maybe, I don't know, I don't think we were even married to 22, 23. And he said to me, we're just chit-chatting, we're driving the car, and he asked me if you could have any kind of car, what would you have? Right? Simple question. And I thought about it. And I said, a Honda CRB. And a Honda CRV is what my mom drove for most of my childhood and life. And so it there's not a right or wrong thing with that choice. It's just that I chose the thing that was familiar to me, which I thought was doable because my mom had chosen that. And he looked at me and he said, That's not the car that you want. That's the car that you think you can have. Like, why would you call me out like that? And I stopped because he was right. Yeah. And I realized, I think it was the first time I realized who put that rule in my head that I couldn't

The Power of Self-Reflection

Netanya

even dare to dream bigger. Because what if I didn't get it? What if I got hurt or I was disappointed or failed? And who am I to ask for something bigger than what people around me had shown me was possible? And that really fucked me up for a while. Yeah. And I spent, I spent some time in my 20s doing work on money specifically and looking at what do I believe about money? Where did I learn that I think my first I was a pair up for a couple of years at teacher aid for um special ed kids. And I wanna say I was making like 1350 an hour or something like that, and like just barely getting by and working a full-time job at that pay rate. And um just everything I was doing was like working my ass off and barely making any money doing it. And I know that I'm smart, I know I have other capacities, and I was like, what am I missing? I checked off boxes, I do have a college degree. Like, why do I still here? And it's like I getting to the point where you understand that it's not the degree that makes or breaks it. It's your beliefs about things in the world. And what do I believe I'm worthy of or capable of? Where do I have blocks up from what other people told me, either directly or implicitly, or the society taught me that I'm capable of or worthy of? Um, friends, family, just wherever you pick up all these little things that you have that I took on as my own and owned them without asking questions about is this true? Right. And so that's been a journey I've been on for years. And I have uncovered things and I like the layers of the onion is very much true for that thing of worthiness of says who.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Says who. So I want to know. Yeah. What car would you choose?

SPEAKER_04

Um vehicle. Yeah. Today. Any car, any I would drive regardless of money, regardless of whether or not you would actually drive it on a daily basis.

Netanya

Yeah. What car? Um vehicle. Are we being practical or like just any car of any kind, doesn't matter the weather or anything? It doesn't matter. I have long loved neon green Lamborghinis. Really? Yeah. I have no idea, like specifically neon green. Yeah. Um I also really like like a good sexy Corvette. Okay. Um And I also love trucks. I'm also a truck girl. I used to have a truck, and I'm very much love, like I have a this is part of that too. I will tell this as well. Like, um to your point earlier of the rules around things and this or that. You can there you can't have both. There's no and it's like this thing or that thing or but you can do this, but not that.

Embracing Dual Identities

Netanya

I for a long time I have this dual identity, right? And I have parts of me that um I like magical things and whimsy things and I'm nerdy and um I like nice things or shoes or you know, I don't know, I'm trying to think of good sheets on your bed. There's things I like that are really nice. And I love, I would love to live on a ranch and put my hands in the dirt and drive a truck and own horses. And I've never I don't know anything about horses, you know, but like this part of me that's like this southern cowgirl. I feel like we're the same, you know. But I also um, but I when I bought my car that I currently have, I had a breakdown because I had to face the thing that we're talking about, which is I own a luxury vehicle today. Yes, you do. But I had a battle of all hell when I went to buy that car internally. Well, yeah, because that's when imposters that who am I? I don't I don't need that. I could get a practical, like perfectly great vehicle that's in the same class, that's not a luxury, that's gonna be cheaper. Who am I to have a nicer V? Like I I swear to God, I had a really big battle in my head. And then when I went to go buy it, I did it on purpose. I bought it to deal with, like, you cannot stay small in this. You are gonna be so uncomfortable. And I was so uncomfortable in the dealership and signing paperwork, and I got in the car and and I stopped. I mean, full-blown snot everywhere. I'm going all over the space because fuck you to whoever taught me that. And like I'm just just in general, that where did I learn that I couldn't have something nice or that I had to owe it to someone? That one of my beliefs around that since we're on the car thing, was that the only way I was ever gonna have a vehicle like that is if someone else bought it for me. It would be like a husband or a grandparent or a gift somehow that I was not who am I to buy myself that car and be able to afford it and make that choice for myself. And then to go home, right, to people that had known me and not home to my house, but like home, just people in my world. Yes. And to pull up in that car and to watch the responses of people that had seen me drive old used vehicles for years, and to watch and observe their reactions and responses and just sit with it and let them be. And I had a whole range of things. Most people, you know, excited for me. I had some comments about stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah.

Netanya

Um, people made assumptions, a lot of assumptions made about that. But all of that ran into the middle of my like solar plexus of the seed of power. Right. Who, like, who am I to do all of that? Yes. But that, and the same with the dual life. Who am I to drive a luxury vehicle and want to go live on a ranch? Why, like somewhere in there, I think I have to choose. I can't have it all. Who am I to have it all? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I know lots of people that have farms and ranches that they have their trucks and they have luxury vehicles. Yeah. So why not?

Netanya

Well, and what and like that's it's so easy for me and has been for years to understand that for other people. It right.

unknown

Yes.

Netanya

Why is it so hard for me to see for myself? Yes. And so I started making choices that were uncomfortable for me in that realm because I I was like, I'm never gonna get out of this unless I start action, like you said, taking action. I can think about stuff forever. I can read all the books in the world. I'm great at it. I can journal about it and process it, talk about it, make vision boards. I've done all that for years. Until you actually make choices that move you tangibly and physically in that direction, nothing is gonna change. And one of the um a couple years ago, I went to Bali by myself for a month, the other side of the world, alone. And one of the reasons that I chose that on purpose, also very uncomfortably, is that concept of I've watched people for years talk about things. And um, my ex-husband specifically was a big person that did this. He always had these, we're gonna do this, and I'm gonna go get this boat and we're gonna take it down the coast and all this, you know, just like we're gonna do this stuff that he was never gonna do. And that's not that's not a shameful, I'm not like judging it. He just isn't a doer. He's not gonna do those kinds of things, and that's okay. But I wanted to do things. And so there was a point in which I just realized like you can be the kind of person that I would look at other people and be like, damn, she just went where like and traveled somewhere awesome. And that you you can't be a person that travels the world and stay home. Like you have to leave the front door, right? You have to do the tangible thing that's scary if you want to be the kind of person that has that life.

Measuring Progress and Celebrating Growth

Netanya

And so I thought, well, what do I have to start doing differently to go get that life? And whether it's a car or a job or a spouse or whatever, how do I, if we energetically are attracting what we are, it's not just about dreams and what you want. You attract what you are, right? So how do I become a different version of me so that I start attracting more things that are of that caliber because I'm worthy of that? Right.

SPEAKER_04

That's true. I had this exact conversation with my brother last night. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because it's like, dude, until you start getting better, feeling better, being better, you will not attract better. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So mine would be a 68 Camaro. Ooh. An Aston Martin B12 Vanquish. And a truck, but I already have the truck. Yeah. Right. And it's a bougie, bougie ass truck. Yeah. You know, I always wanted one. That was the first thing that I ever did for myself that said, I'm gonna get out of this box I keep stuffing myself in, was when I bought my first truck.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I remember the first time I really felt imposter syndrome and understood that that's what it was, was when we bought our house. Oh, because like my kids and I used to live in my car. Yeah. Right. And then um I was able to get in to this little house. It was like 700 and something square feet. And then Jupiter and his kids moved in with us to this 700 and something square feet house, you know, and then we got one that was a little bit bigger. Well, this one's 3,300 square feet. Yeah, it's big. And it's in a really nice neighborhood. And I was like, I don't fit here. Like, there's HOA, there's rules, there is, you know, pilot. Hmm. There's sidewalks, you know. Um, this house is like freaking massive, but like if you know me and you know how many people actually live in my house, it it's very cramped. Yeah. At 3,300 square feet. But for the longest time I was like, I would come home and I'd look at my house and have to like keep looking up. Yeah. And it was weird.

Netanya

It was weird. Well, and you the other thing is that like

Conversations with Younger Selves

Netanya

when you choose to work on this on purpose, I always use Cinderella as an example. Like, that's a really big jump. The reason I I have a hard time with that story is because of where she's currently when she starts the story, which is sweeping floors and like, you know, very much a servant position to the castle, right, with the prince is a very large jump. And energetically, and like emotionally, just in a way of being, that's usually too far of a jump for people. Yeah. It's not sustainable.

SPEAKER_03

No.

Netanya

Right. And that's why you'll see lottery winners with I think it's some absurd statistic, like within two years, 80% of lottery winners have either lost all or given away or used, spent all of their money, or are have less, like have gone into debt over that. Because if you don't become a person that can handle that new level, you don't know what to do with it. And you'll often self-destruct or implode or throw it all away or give it all away, you know, because you don't know how to be that person. So what I have found more tangibly functionally useful is how do you baby step up to the next level? You know, you don't go from kindergarten to college. Right. You go to second grade and third grade and you know, and like when you're in them, when you when you leave second grade and go into third grade at the end of summer, there's not that big of a jump. You kind of start with where you were at the end of the, you know, before. You might have some new stuff. But the importance is the increments and the continually up leveling on purpose. Right.

SPEAKER_04

That's why our steps are in the order that they're in.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right? It's like I'm not gonna come in on day one with all this wreckage and be like, yeah, I admit that my life is unmanageable. Now let me go apologize to everyone and make it right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Without understanding why my life is unmanageable, what defects have I acted out on? Who do I actually need to apologize to? Who does not deserve my apology? Yeah. You know, where am I falling short? And then say, you know what, I really messed up. And then start helping people.

Netanya

Yeah. But that space of one, I think awareness, what are your beliefs around things? And all you have to do to find that is take a piece of paper and write, like I'll write just like a topic, your career, whatever. What do you what do you believe about it? What do you think about your own spot and career? What do you think is possible for you? And just start writing. Like, I believe this, I believe and you will, it's fascinating if you just tell the truth on paper and like you don't have to show anybody, you know, or money or relationships is a big one. What I think is possible in a relationship. Um, I'm worthy of or deserve this. And you you'll write beliefs and you'll write stuff, and it'll be something funny. Like um, I think I like one of mine for the longest time has been I have to choose. Like, again, I can't have everything that includes a partner. I have to compromise somewhere. So maybe he's really good looking and I'm really physically attracted to him, and that's a really great thing, but he's bad with money. Like somewhere I have to give. I can't have a man who has good things in multiple areas. Somewhere I have to like owe the universe and pay my dues.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I don't believe that. See, though.

Netanya

No, I but I'm saying because I've had to work through that as a thing of being like, why is that true? Right. Or if he's a really, really good man, he won't be attractive. I'll have to compromise the physical aspect of it. Just but it's it's so fascinating and interesting to see not only what did you believe, another one I will do is where did I learn that? So if I find them, I'll start finding things I believe about your career. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Write them all down. Where did I learn that? And you'll find so many people's voices in your head who are not yours. Right. Well, that's the step work I'm doing right now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, I thought that it was about the relationship with my trafficker.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And then it went deeper into my relationship with fantasy.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04

And then it went deeper into that first woman, whoever like molested me and fed me all of those negative core beliefs that I still struggle to let go of today, surrounding sex and my body, and God and and and um keeping secrets and worthiness. You know, so here I am thinking and that I'm doing work on this one thing because I chose not to do it in my last round of steps. And then understanding, you know, what you just said on where did that actually come from. Because he was just another face of something that I had been, he was another manifestation of something that I had been taught in my developmental years.

unknown

Yeah.

Netanya

It's mind-blowing. It is. And it's also it's a process, right? And when I say I've been working on levels of this for years, I do mean years. And I still find stuff. And the cool thing is, I have also seen myself become someone who a former version of me could only dream of. That girl that like first started working on worthiness, like she would never have been able to imagine that I would actually be where I am right now. Right. Right?

SPEAKER_04

Doing podcasts, going to Switzerland, driving a luxury vehicle, yeah, having this nice Hira's apartment on this very trendy road in Nashville. Yeah. Of all places. Yeah.

Netanya

And I mean I mean that, like never would have believed that.

SPEAKER_04

And comfortable in her own skin, in her own body, in her own mind, in our own spirituality.

Netanya

And it's the cool thing is too, is as you become that version of you, when you do kind of baby step it, I like to do what's called measuring backwards. We look so far ahead at where we're not yet, what I still want to do, that sometimes I'll stop. And what even if you're just like, where was I six months ago? Where was I this time last year? This time last year I didn't have a podcast at all. You know, just to because it's sort of you forget, because as you're working on things and you start to sort of quietly own them or master them, or you're like, hey, I did that thing, it's it's not as fantastical anymore because this is now your reality. Right. And so what was mind-blowing for me when I went to Bali, and I I mean, I was impressed and proud and scared and all of those things to be like, I'm doing this. When I just went to Switzerland, that was not shocking for me. The shock factor was gone because I had become a person that does things like that. This doesn't mean all the time, you know, but like, yeah, I can do that. And then now, my dreams moving forward, there are still things that scare me. They're just different. The needle moves, but it's very humbling for me to sit back and be like, not that long ago, you were somewhere else and you forget how far you've come. And what that does is it it's sort of like um giving yourself little tally marks of evidence that when you put time into this, whether it's the writing it out, the finding the beliefs, the where did it come from, and then the what am I gonna do about this? And where do you don't have to tackle it all at once. Maybe it's just one little thing, or I'm gonna all this thing is uncomfortable. How do you eat an elephant? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh-huh.

Netanya

But that as you start to do that and you look backwards, you have a lot of little bites. You're like, I did that and I did this. And that list gets longer, and that builds confidence. That not only am I this person, but I have a really good track record of the fact that I've successfully become this person on purpose. Yes.

SPEAKER_04

I have I have those conversations frequently with all of my younger selves. Yeah. When they want to question the decisions that I make today. And so I do a meditation with them. Right. And and and see them. And we're all like sitting in a circle, Indian style, just kind of having a conversation around I have been making these good choices.

Navigating Personal Growth and Safety

SPEAKER_04

Right. And and I have shown that we are no longer in those spaces. And let's walk together through this so that you feel safe and comfortable and understand that we have grown and we are capable today. Yeah, I I do that a lot with them because they still like to try to sometimes hold me hostage or divert my focus because they're scared.

SPEAKER_03

And they are many. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And so it is my privilege to make sure they're heard and feel sane and safe. And also that they're not in charge anything.

Netanya

Yeah. And that's one um I think the first time I did it, I was in therapy. And it was around men and a belief that I had. And she said, Who was talking?

SPEAKER_03

And it was it was like my six-year-old.

Netanya

And I didn't trust that anyone could ever hold all that I am. I'm too much. And so we went through and I talked to her and I, you know, and I said a lot of things to her. And essentially where I landed was I got you. And you don't have to make that choice. I'm gonna make that choice. Right. The the adult version of me. You're you don't you don't have to drive this car. You can just hang out in the passenger seat. But that process of um, sometimes I'll write letters to her. And I have a couple just like you do. One's about six, one is sixteen, one is twenty-three, one's twenty-seven. Um, and they're all different versions of me that are rooted in not being enough, being too much, unworthiness, all the beliefs that are surrounded of that, fear, not trusting, um, overfunctioning, just I mean, you name it, find a belief or somewhere I haven't owned. But that process of whether you do it in meditation or I often part of the way I pray these days is I just talk out loud. Yes, whatever I am. Absolutely. And sometimes it's to her. And I'll be like, I see you. I see, I see how much you want to grip this. And like we're we're gonna be okay. And we can ask for help if we need it, but you don't have to do that anymore. Yeah. And it's helped me, like you said, to very much care for her, care for them. Right. And then to make choices. You know, one of the things I can remember saying when I first I was not in recovery yet, but I I had made the choice to leave my marriage. Um and I remember sitting on a kitchen floor And sobbing. And I I had a evil like this. I had a bottle of Jack and an Oracle deck. Yes. Um, but I I was not devastated at all that the marriage was over. I was great. That was that was a great decision. But I can remember saying out loud, I'm so sorry to me. I'm so sorry that I left you. And we're never gonna do that again. You know, that commitment, so much of why I do the things that we're talking about is not just to have nice things. It's to care for her and give her the life that I think she deserves and to give other people permission to do the same thing. Right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think the the first time I had a really big breakthrough with them in therapy, we were doing um

Therapeutic Breakthroughs and Trusting Decisions

SPEAKER_04

some brain spotting and we were talking about so my husband and I have been together for 14 years. So since 2012. In 2017, he proposed. And uh we had set a wedding date for 2018. Uh spring 2018, I went and bought a wedding gown, and I changed the wedding date. And then I changed it again, and then I changed it again, and then I just stopped talking about it. And so we're in therapy and we're talking about that, and I keep hearing them saying, no, no, we're not doing that. We're never doing that. And I realized in that moment that they were the ones putting it off, not me. Yeah. Because they did not I had made so many poor decisions around men and safety and security, that they did not trust my judgment at all. Yeah. And so I spent the rest of that session in connection with them, you know, letting them know that this man is not those men that I've been making good decisions for the last several years surrounding my value and my worth and what I will and will not accept in a relationship and building a foundation of trust and communication with my partner, and that I also have a willingness to leave if I need to, that I will not stay just because I feel like I I need that level of support or that that's all I'm worth. And also realized in that they were the reason I had also not finished all 12 steps in Narcotics Anonymous. It was the day that I had eight years clean. And so, like, I was able to have that conversation with them. And I went home that day. I finished my 12th step. I looked at my husband and said, let's set a wedding date and it's for real this time. He asked me what happened, and so I told him about my therapy session because we can talk about that stuff. And he was like, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, then I called my sponsor and I told her. And she's one that, like, if I absolutely had to get out of it, I would. But unless I gave her a really good freaking reason, like I was getting married on the day that I said I was gonna get married, like I I did not have the opportunity to continue to run. And we said it for like five weeks later. It was beautiful. I'm so glad, right? Like, I couldn't the weight that was lifted once I had that conversation and went through that process was so incredible that now I intentionally interact with them on a regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. And that was two and a half years ago. So we've been married for about two and a half years and almost three years, and it's been cool, you know? Yeah. Um, but yeah, that was the first time that I really started interacting with them and seeing how they have guided so many of my decisions or hijacked my body, because they can do that, that I have allowed to hold me back in so many areas. And so a lot of this, this, this worthiness, this work that I'm doing on um removing the devotions that no longer serve me, is in work with them.

Netanya

Yeah. Do you replace that with new devotions? Or is that not a have we not gotten to that point yet, or do you not think that's necessary?

Removing Limiting Beliefs and Devotions

SPEAKER_04

I think I also had enough healthy devotions already in my life as far as like not using being spiritual, even though I don't often know what that looks like. Yeah you know, even when I'm confused about my own spirituality, like having something, you know, being someone who walks with integrity. I think I had enough of that that my main thing right now is removing devotions.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, because they've held me hostage for so long. And I didn't realize that, you know, there's this thing in in at some NA conventions that I go to. And um, it's called a walk across. And one of the questions um at some of them is, have you ever been held hostage? And I always walk on that question. Now, have I been physically held hostage? Yes, I have. And I never walk for that reason. I walk because I have allowed specific devotions, ideas, beliefs, addiction to hold me hostage. Like using mental health as an excuse to not do things to hold me hostage, right? And those are beliefs that that I was dedicated to. And so I've been walking on that every single time because I don't I don't know that a lot of people think about how they hold themselves hostage on a every single day. Yeah.

Netanya

I think I'm still doing it. Oh, I am too. Like I got off the phone prior to this conversation talking about that in a different way, right? And I think I try really hard to have a lot of grace for the for the journey, that even the way we're talking about it, what what no longer serves you and what are beautiful, positive devotions, and that you can have both. There's not like a I again with the black and white is such a thing that I've had to work through of like old versions of me want to make a list. These are all the things I've let go of, and I'm gonna do it today, and by the end of the day, it's done, you know, and like this is what I'm calling in, and this I'm gonna embody this new version of me. And it doesn't work like that at all. No. And that space of, you know, I keep finding stuff, I look on purpose. Um, and how do I, like you said, spend time with them? Because what I love that you said earlier, which I also feel is very true, is how much weight I have lost from spending time with them and releasing them from these stories and things. Right. Like we don't have to keep doing that. And that doesn't happen overnight, but it's very much a dance. What do I want to keep letting go of? And then I'll find something new. And sometimes I put things in place on purpose, like you said, integrity or um recovery. There's different things I very much am devoted to. Sometimes I find things on accident. You know, and when I was traveling, I was in a state kind of on purpose of like meandering and wonder. I don't spend a lot of time and wonder on my day-to-day. And that felt like a beautiful, devotional just for some time. I don't have to do it forever. But how do you sort of embody more of that version of you that you want to become? And then as you find stuff and you will like, oh well, there's another one I don't, I don't need to keep that with me. What do I let's look at that for a little bit?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you know, yeah, and that that that works really well for me because I'm a my decisions are made on

Intuition vs. Analysis in Decision Making

SPEAKER_04

emotion and intuition, but that only comes after I'm a very analytical thinker. Same, like I don't know if I've ever told you this. My sixth step was literally an Excel spreadsheet. Is it really? Yeah. It was like 140-something defects when I went to go over it with my sponsor. I like unfolded it and like rolled it down. Like, this is the defect, this is how it manifests, this is how I've acted out, this is how it affects me, this is how it affects other like those are the columns, and the defects were the rows, and I would just fill in all of the oh my god. Yeah. Right. And and so then I'd so I analyze everything. You know, someone mentioned it the other day we were at uh our home group business meeting, and they were talking about some things that were a little controversial, right? Not everyone wants to, and I just sat back and watched. And someone said to me afterward, they're like, I really thought you were gonna say something. I said, Well, I want to hear everyone's perspective on this before I make my own decision. That's the difference between perception and perspective. Like I need to look past my nose. And the only way to do that is to get all of the data, see all of the parts, see where I fit into those parts. And then, based on all of this information, what does my gut tell me is the truth? And then I will make my decision. I'm not gonna go just off of my first instinct. You know, so the more I do the work, the more I give my self permission to experience new things, even if that new thing is just speaking up for myself, the more data I have to analyze and say, okay, yeah, this this worked for me, this doesn't serve me, and I can, you know, move in this this direction. I can continue to go forward or I can pivot.

Netanya

Have you and again, this is just what I was thinking about earlier, but like have you run into where the data that you have or the things that you've analyzed or the facts, the logic, the realism of something doesn't match intuition.

SPEAKER_04

No.

SPEAKER_03

Never no.

SPEAKER_04

How I do that. No, because that thing that we were talking about before we started this is very strong.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like that is the that is the main core of the line of the women in my family. Okay. And where I consistently ran into trouble was that I went against that intuition. I had all of the facts, I had all of the data, I had all of the lies in my head that I thought of as fact. Yes. And chose to listen to that rather than the intuition. Yes.

Netanya

Um, I think that answers your better, actually. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Is that that's my problem is I will overthink it to death and data it to death. And my intuition, the the way that it works, is sometimes not logical. It's not here's all the pros and the cons. Like it's often not like that. But when I've gotten into, and it's not often because I usually listen to it at this point, but when I, if I ever try to override it with overthinking and not listening to what either my body's telling me, sometimes I hear things, sometimes I know things. Any form, and there's many forms of like declares, if you know anything about them, that uh how that works is very different. Some people have all of them, some people, you know, but that where I've run into a problem is if I don't listen to that. And I try to outthink it. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, sure, 100%. I'm not saying that I choose intuition every time. Right. I'm saying that when I do, yeah. That is always the best course. Historically, I quite well, historically, I used to shut her up. Yes. Yeah. Because what she was telling me to do was anathema to that my core belief system, or it would take me to a place where I would be in more danger if I tried to escape. Yeah. And so she was always right. It is, I believe that it is trauma that caused me to need to analyze it first before relying on intuition.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I like the way you said that.

Netanya

Because I do, I notice it still when I'm overthinking something and it's not necessary and it's not helping me. Um and I can't stop. And that space of understanding helps me to be like, this is this is trauma that's talking. Right. You know, and for different reasons. I also think that I used to shut her up.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

Netanya

Because what she would have told me was scary.

unknown

Right.

Netanya

What do you mean you want me to blow up your whole life and leave your marriage? Well, I did it anyway. Yeah. I just it took me a couple years longer than you know, to listen to her. Yeah. Because it that's that broke everything in my in my belief system of what I was supposed to do or what life was supposed to be. How dare I?

SPEAKER_03

You know, I committed to something.

Understanding Intuition and Body Connection

SPEAKER_04

People paid for my wedding. You know, what do you mean you're gonna get divorced? Yeah. I told you I won my first wedding, right? No. You did? So when you said people paid for my wedding, I was like, I'm done. Well, now I have to know what you won it? Yeah. It was like a raffle. And I didn't think about it as a raffle until I was like, we were at dinner last night, and I was like, Yeah, it was like a free wedding giveaway. And Reed was like, so you got married based on a raffle ticket. I was like, what do you mean? I thought it was God saying that I was supposed to marry this person because we've been dating for so long we were engaged, and then all of a sudden our wedding is free. Yeah. Of course that's a sign from God.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, isn't that funny? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It was absolutely not. Yeah, you know, but I didn't know any better.

Netanya

I was I was like 19, 20 years old. How do you know as much as you can explain it? I'm I'm working on getting better at tangibly explaining as much as I can for myself, spirituality and intuition, because I have felt such a struggle at the lack of a roadmap, right? And how different it is for everyone. How do you know when something is intuition versus just another voice in your head?

SPEAKER_04

Well, you mentioned it earlier. That solar plexus. That that there is a visceral reaction.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like take that first marriage, for example. I was so sick that day because I knew like I knew that I loved him, I knew that like we were good. And I also knew that I did not want to be stuck there and that that is not what I had seen for myself. And I didn't know how to get out of it. I was doing what was expected. I did not want to hurt him, he was a good man. Yeah. Like it's it's always like this physical reaction, even on minor things. And so what I've learned how to distinguish is what is a physical reaction and what am I hearing, and whose voice is it in? Because that's a big one. Because often it's not my voice or one of my little girls' voices, it is someone else's voice. And if it's somebody else's voice, that is not my choice. That is someone else making the choice for me. But if I feel it here, and the look, there's also I've been working on practicing the connection between here and here. So, like my brain and my core. Because there is often a disconnect there. Because in my brain is not only the management committee, if you are fam familiar with internal family systems therapy. So there's not only that, but also the voices of all of the people who have ingrained those negative core beliefs in me. So I try to stay out of my head as much as possible.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Because, you know, if you've ever read The Body Keeps the Score. And um Is that okay? Is that I just bought it. Really? Yeah. Oh. But like, what are the chances that you just I literally just bought it? You know, like mostly it talks about where we hold trauma in our body, but it it also for me helped me connect what is real. Mm-hmm. And it helped me spiritually in a way that I I've never Thought about. You know, that um the four agreements and everything by Don Miguel Ruiz and Don Miguel Maruiz Jr. and Heather Ashemera and all of them. Like with all of that, I was able to learn some discernment when it comes to the difference between what my mind is telling me and what my body is telling me. Because my body knows the truth.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

When my mind can get lost and confused, because my mind is basing everything on experiences.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. That was a good example.

Netanya

I have um one of mine that I'm again when I'm trying to articulate this now, is that recently it's been it's like a sentence comes into my head and it's a fact. I'm very calm. I feel very calm whatever it says. It ends in a period, like it just says something, and it's not me. And I was trying to explain to someone, my metaphors are awful, by the way. But this was my metaphor for how I was like, how do I know it's not me? And I was like, if you have a table, like a little circle table, and you imagine all of the snacks that you would have for like a movie, right? All your like go-to movie snacks. You got popcorn, say you pick MMs, and you know, these are the things that I would choose. Any movie, like I set up this, I set up this table over here. And I know I picked them and they're all my favorite. And then suddenly I see like a crunch bar.

SPEAKER_04

Or some crazy ones.

Netanya

And something that's there that I didn't put there. Yeah. And it's not that I like it or don't like it. I'm just very aware I would not have selected that. That did not come from me. That was not my choice. It didn't exist here before. I wouldn't have paid for it. Like, but it's there on the table. As real as anything else, but it's not mine. That was how I I was trying to explain that. Like, it's a a thought that comes into my head that is outside the realm of my normal rigma role of all the things that I think about. Um, it's very calm. It's in a sentence like a fact. And I know it to be true as soon as it lands. And it lands in my body also. It's like a dual thing. It's not just in my head. Whereas my thoughts are pretty on a hamster wheel in my head. Yeah. And for me, like that's it hasn't happened that many times in my life. You know, and a lot of times it's on larger things, you know, more life choices versus like which cheese to buy at the store, you know. But I had one. I was in the I was in a store. This is funny because it just happened when I was in Switzerland. I'm in a store. I needed another sweatshirt because I didn't pack enough. And I was debating on getting one. And I grabbed one that I liked. I I saw how much it cost, and it was like, I don't know, like 40 bucks or something. And so I took it up to the counter and I went to go ring out, and she told me the price of it in francs, and it was almost a hundred bucks. And I was like, Oh, like I don't, I don't need a sweatshirt this bad. I don't like this sweatshirt that much, you know. And I was just doing it to not have one sweatshirt while I was traveling. But what happened was like as soon as she said it, and I was like, Oh, but the sign said it was whatever. And she was like, No, none of our sweatshirts are are that low. They're all whatever the Frank version of that was. Some it was like an immediate, like I said, the sentence that came into my body, and it was just like, nope, period. And it wasn't me. And I was like, I wasn't gonna bite anyway, but that came in, and I sort of, it was almost like a physical response where I like backed up and was just very aware that what just happened wasn't me. And I was like, oh, okay, like, and I'm trying to have this experience while talking to her. And I was like, oh, okay, I think I'm good. Um I'll come back a different time. And she was like, Great, thank you. Like, not realizing that I just had this momentary experience of it was almost like a wall went in front of me. And I was like, Oh, okay, nope. And just walked out of the store. Right. But it's funny because it's not, I'm trying to talk about it more because I think we're taught in movies and society and whatever that it's some big thing, your body's taken over or voices are speaking to you. And it was just a moment and it was not about anything grand. And like I said, it was almost like I bumped into a wall, like I couldn't move forward anymore. But and I was like, okay, I'm gonna Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. And that that's exactly what I mean by that visceral reaction. Yeah. Because there's so much going on in my head all the time, I feel it in my gut first before I recognize that my mind has revealed something to me. Yeah. So that's that's that's not the only place. It is just the first place where I absolutely know oh quiet everyone down in my head and listen to what my body is telling me.

Netanya

Yeah. Are there things you do to help cultivate that more in your body or to help your relationship with your body? I

Cultivating a Healthy Relationship with the Body

Netanya

just pay a lot of attention.

SPEAKER_04

Do you? I do. Especially after reading that book. Like when I'm feeling pain in certain areas, I you definitely need to read the book. I can't wait. But I'm talking about uh understanding the difference between am I feeling pain in that area because I slept wrong or because my body is remembering something that I need to work on. And you know, people with long-term trauma typically have pretty, I wouldn't say extreme, um, I don't know what word I'm looking for, but have like intestinal tract issues. Because like, especially when we spend so much time clenching the body and stuff, and like we're not eating right, we're not taking care of ourselves, all of that, like so your gut is just as important as your brain, like your gut health. And so people with long-term trauma have really poor gut health. You know, we have things like IBS and GERD and spasticolon and like all of these things. And if you're looking at like your chakras, and if you're looking at your core and where your core resides is also in that same area. And so if I'm not taking care of my body, if I'm not taking care of my core, the core of my body, then how am I gonna understand what's happening to the core of my spirit? Yeah. That was beautiful. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03

That's just I like the way you said it.

SPEAKER_04

I felt it. Yeah, like so I'm I'm doing more things, and I think that's helped. Yeah. Right? Like I'm doing more things to take care of that part of my body, the physics part of my body. And yes, I'm paramina, you know, I'm at the end stage of perimenopause, and I have like these these lumps in areas that I've never had before in my life, and you know, all of the hormone changes and everything. I could, you know, start doing yoga, I could do more stretching, whatever, for for flexibility, but I'm really focusing on how am I taking care of my gut, especially when metaphorically it's my gut that tells me in which direction to move. So if if my physical gut is messed up and I don't know where to go, how is my metaphysical gut or metaphorical gut gonna be able to guide me?

Netanya

Yeah. Well, and I I love this because I had realized earlier this year, I think, just in all the stuff we're talking about, how much I think. And it's such a superpower for so many reasons, and it helps me in all these ways. But when I I realized how detached I was from my body, and I don't work out regularly, I don't do yoga, I don't medi I I've been working on meditating more in the last several months just in the morning, and that's been helping a lot, actually. But I don't I bypass my body a lot. And I got curious about that. I think I learned when I was young that exercise was either for sports that I played or for men. Like that, that was I was either trying to look a certain way for a guy or get fit because I was playing a sport and wanted to win. And then after I got into my 20s and I didn't play sports anymore, and then I got married, like it really wasn't for either. So I just sort of chopped that attachment and realized that like to sit with that, what do I want that relationship to be now? What do I want to do that feels good to me, not as a means to lose weight or or be more this or that, but just to similar to what you're talking about, to have a more spiritual connection with my body in a way that feels good. What does that look like for me? And I think I've I also learned so much growing up in magazines and all these things that this is what this should look like. And whether that's an exercise plan or whatever, to just sort of sit with the question of what actually feels good. What do I want to eat? What tastes good? What um I was at the doctor the other day and I was like, should I I don't really take many vitamins. Is there something I'm I turned 40 this year? Is there something like things that I don't know to think about because, you know, that maybe would be supportive of me? And so we talked about that, like, and so I got someone I was at the store today. Just things like that, that supplements are things that can support you because you want to feel good and keep cultivating that relationship versus and again, not that there's anything wrong with wanting to lose weight, or you know, those are also valid, but I was just trying to come at it from a place of how do I write this relationship that I think I bypass all the time?

SPEAKER_04

Yes, absolutely. And like where I'm at right now with the relationship with my body, and this goes back to what we were speaking on earlier: the difference between knowledge and action. Because here I am, I'm I'm about to turn 49. I'm I'm working on the relationship between the different versions of my gut. Um, and I'm also about to turn 49. Like my body, I've been a dancer my entire life. My body is not as flexible as it used to be. There are there are things that movement is becoming more restrictive the older that I get. Strength is becoming weaker the older that I get, because I'm not doing anything to improve that, you know, not necessarily to make it better, but to keep it from getting worse. And so, like, I know that I need to move more because I'm sitting at a desk all day, right? I know that I need to move more, I know that I need to start doing yoga for flexibility, you know, and start gentle. I know that like I should go on more walks. And also, oh, I know that I'm paying for this app to be able to do this at home, like $30 a month that I have opened twice in the last two years that I've had this app. Yeah. And also I'm not doing the things that I know that I need to be doing. And then that then ties back to this devotion of what my body is worth. So if I let it go, right? Will I be expected to perform that way again? Am I worthy of being physically fit? And like I know that I am worthy of that. I know that getting healthy doesn't mean that I will need to perform any differently in the bedroom. Um, and so like my next physical section to work on is strength and flexibility of my body to be healthy, not for someone or something else. Yeah. And am I gonna do it or am I gonna continue to just be like, mm, I can worry about that later. Well, guess what? But later's here.

SPEAKER_03

You know? Yeah. So that's interesting. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.

Netanya

This is beautiful. I would just keep talking to you, but we'll be here all night. I have one last question. Yeah. If you were to give permission to anyone listening to this, yeah, what would you give them permission to do after hearing our conversation?

SPEAKER_03

That's a good one. I don't want to just

Empowerment and Permission to Speak Up

SPEAKER_03

answer off the top of my head, right? There's not a right or wrong.

SPEAKER_04

Because there's a lot of things, right? I would give I would I would say and just because I try to I try to do this, give people permission to speak about their mental health, speak about being in recovery, speak about, and I only like kind of glossed over this a little bit, trafficking in America.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

The permission to hug, the permission to hold, to be held, the permission to have discernment. Because oftentimes we feel like it's gotta be all or nothing and that's not a that's not a thing.

SPEAKER_03

And permission want more. Right? Like break down the station and rise above that.

SPEAKER_04

Because everything in this world, everything in society, every word ever created was completely made up by somebody else. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so if it does not serve you, fuck it. And go find something that does. Go find something that does. Thank you. You're welcome.

Netanya

I love this conversation. I love you. Thank you so much for being here. It means more than you know. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or leave a quick rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find the show. If you want more of me, head on over to natanyallison.com and enter your name and email for behind the scenes updates in between shows. New episodes air every Tuesday. We'll see you next week.