From DJ Booths to Rock Bottom: DJ Wayne on Fatherhood, Loss, and Building a Life Worth Living

A breakup two days before Christmas.
 A father on the floor as paramedics burst through the door.
 A man left staring at the ceiling, wondering what comes next.

This is Wayne’s story — and it’s not clean, polished, or packaged for comfort. It’s the story of a man who fell hard, and then slowly, painfully, built something worth standing on again.

In this episode, Dan sits with Wayne to unpack what happens when the floor disappears — and how you find your footing again through honesty, music, and movement.
 Together, they talk about the unspoken corners of men’s mental health, the quiet battles of co-parenting, and the reality of being a “good dad” when systems, calendars, and distance all work against you.

Wayne doesn’t sugarcoat it. He shares what it’s like to lose contact with three of his five daughters, how he still celebrates their wins from afar, and the festival moment that stopped time — DJing shoulder-to-shoulder with his teenage daughter, music bridging everything words couldn’t.

This isn’t a redemption story with a soundtrack and neat ending. It’s a survival manual built from lived experience — the small, stubborn actions that keep your head above water:

• Seeing time as acceptance, not a cure
• Choosing sobriety over escape
• Turning shame into strength
• Using sea-front walks and simple routines to rebuild peace
• Learning how to be present, not perfect
• Remembering that memories beat material things every time

If you’ve ever smiled in public while breaking in private, been told to “man up” when you were just trying to breathe, or wondered how to show up when everything feels lost — this episode is a quiet hand on your shoulder.

It’s about finding life in the leftovers.
 It’s about showing up for your kids, even when they can’t see it.
 It’s about staying human in the mess.

🎧 Listen, share, and tag someone who needs to hear this.
Leave a short review with one thing you’re taking from Wayne’s story — because your words might be the reminder someone else is waiting for.

💬 Talk to Dan

If you’re going through your own storm — a breakup, co-parenting battle, grief, or that heavy silence that no one sees — come and talk about it. This space is for you.

📩 Email: onlydanlawrence@gmail.com

📱 Instagram: @DanLawrenceComedy
| @DefinitelyNotTherapyPod

📘 Facebook: Dan Lawrence

Because sometimes, talking about it isn’t weakness — it’s the start of healing.
This isn’t therapy. It’s something realer.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Definitely Not Therapy.

SPEAKER_03: 0:03

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_02: 0:05

This week we are talking to DJ Wayne, who is known for his huge DJ sets up and down the country, playing at festivals and I guess parties. As far as I don't know if it's kids' parties and stuff, but I think it's more like the adult clubs. But Wayne has really struggled with his mental health throughout his life. He's had real struggles. There's been some real ups, some real downs. And hopefully you guys can listen to Wayne's story and actually hear that. Do you know what? Yeah, things can get bad. We've said this time and time again, things can get bad. We can completely fall apart at the seams. Our lives can be on one path. They can be on a trajectory, and all of a sudden, we're blindsided and we're in another trajectory, no idea where we're going. There's no road. The road's not even there. We're just forging a new road. And it's scary. It is really scary. And I can tell you that from experience. But what I can also tell you from experience is when people say to you, Time is a healer, you know, all the things that you don't want to hear. It will get easier, things will get better. Time's a healer. You don't want to hear that in the moment. But they're all true. They are all true. Time is a healer, and you will feel better. And you know what? There's going to be bumps in the road. Just prepare yourself for them.

unknown: 1:21

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23

I know there's something niggling in the back of your mind right now, isn't there? Where you're trying to concentrate on this podcast, on this very, very good podcast, this very engaging podcast. But you're thinking, I wish we had a new bathroom. I wish we had a new kitchen. I wish we had a new games room. Well, this week's episode of Definitely Not Therapy is sponsored by Bell Trades. We've all been there, haven't we? We've sat there and we've thought, right, next job, we'll get the kitchen done. Next job, we'll get the bathroom done. And we just never get around to it. Why do we do that? We just we never get around to it. Do it. Now is the time. Contact Bell Trades and they can help. It might not cost as much as you think. Bell Trades have a very simple philosophy to turn your house into a home that you're proud of. Not where you can think, I wish we had a new bathroom, I wish we had a new kitchen, wish we had a new games room or man cave, wish our bedroom was nice. Bell Trades don't need to start from scratch. You don't have to have an entire new room. You might be thinking, I just wish this room was finished. They can look at the room and they can see the potential and they can work with you on it. Belltrades are specialists in bathrooms, kitchens, and entire renovations. You will not be disappointed. And if you think, oh Dan, I really, really, really want it done. I really want to get that bathroom finished, or I really want to get a new kitchen, but I just haven't got the money. Life's hard at the moment, life's expensive at the moment. But there are some really, really reasonable finance options available. Go check their website, it's www.belltrades.co.uk. Or why don't you check them out on Instagram? It's at bell underscore underscore trades. It's a double underscore. On their Instagram page, they've got some great before and after shots. So you can see the work they do. You can see the quality. And the beauty is they cover the entire South East London as well as Kent. So if you're one of them people, you're sat there, you're in South East London, you're in Kent, you're thinking, oh my bathroom. I don't like going in there because it stresses me out. www.beltrades.co.uk. BellTrades have helped me bring my vision to life. My vision of this podcast, they've helped me by sponsoring. Let them help bring your vision to life in your home. Because home isn't just where you live, it's how you live. Get yourself a quote. What have you got to lose, eh? Anyway, let's get back to the podcast, shall we?

SPEAKER_01: 3:55

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_02: 3:56

DJ Wayne, thanks for joining me on the podcast. I'm not going to call you DJ Wayne the whole time, but I'll just call you Wayne if that's alright.

SPEAKER_00: 4:04

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02: 4:05

But yeah, thanks for coming on to the podcast. I think it's important to. I believe everyone's got a story. They've all been, you know, everyone's been through some sort of trauma or some sort of struggle. If you haven't, then you're it, you know, you're really lucky. You haven't probably lived because most people that have lived, they've been through some sort of trauma. So I think for me, when I was struggling, the thing that helped was uh actually talking to people in a similar situation. The people that I could really relate to were the people in a really similar situation to me. So I think it's important to give people a voice, get people's stories out there because you know what, there could be someone sat there now thinking, I'm struggling, I don't know what to do, I don't know where to go. And they might hear someone's story like yourself or any of the guests that I've had on, and they might think, that was me, or that's me now, or that was me four weeks ago, and actually there is light at the end of the tunnel because I think the thing I used to hear all the time when I was really struggling, when people sort of run out of things to say and they circle back to the the same old thing of time is a healer, everything will be alright, it will work out, and it's all those things you think, no, it won't, like because you're not in my head, you don't know. But actually, that is the truth. Like, time is a healer and it does, and after a certain period of time, things do start to feel easier. I'm not saying there's not bumps in the road, which I'm sure will come on to with your journey, but yeah, I think it's just uh it's important to share people's stories, and I appreciate you coming on and and you know opening up and talking about your story.

SPEAKER_00: 5:35

I felt I knew you through the social media, seeing you through lockdown, and then seeing you go through what you went through. I felt a bond because I felt I went well, not the similar, but almost the same, if it makes sense. Everyone's had trauma, it's how it's triggered and how we manage it. The time is a healer. It's a healer. I don't think it's a healer, I think it's an acceptance. So over a period of time, you then go, I've gone over this 20 times, and actually, I think I've got to the bottom of the answer. So, as much as it is time, it's the amount of time you've over well say overthought things or overheard things or anything else like that. Actually, you'll never get an answer unless you are an instigator of what's happening. So, yeah, like for me, my major issue started when I sat up with an ex. Not that that was the sole cause of the problems. Yeah, that wasn't the sole cause of the problems, but I thought it was. Yeah. If it makes sense, but that was my trigger.

SPEAKER_02: 6:31

What from from from previous situations or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:36

I mean truthfully, for me, I actually think it started when I was six years old.

SPEAKER_02: 6:42

Oh wow, okay. So you was literally a child.

SPEAKER_00: 6:45

Yeah, and it's from my my dad splitting up when I was a kid. Like you don't, you know, you as a kid, you just go through these motions and it's happened and things like that. So and it's a long thing for me. Like it's taken me a long time to go. Initially, when my when when my mental health issues really kicked in was because of splitting up with my partner. Okay. You know, it was like a fucking bolt out of the blue, truthfully, I was literally just told can't do this no more and it's over. Two days before Christmas. Like, fuck, what the hell do I do?

SPEAKER_02: 7:17

So this is probably why, because we'd shared a couple of we we've got some mutual friends and we we bumped into each other at a festival, Goat Fest. We sort of because we'd had a couple of conversations, I feel like, and I've said this in the intro, I think we we sort of had that bond because I feel like we'd both experienced a similar a similar thing, which I've obviously spoken about been open about mine. It was uh the same sort of thing, but I bowl out of the blue six weeks after a marriage, and then it's like, oh, it's done, that's over, and it's like it sounds like the same thing, which I actually didn't. I don't know if I knew how extreme it was for you because you was more I was in a really bad place when we met, so I think you were more kind of trying to show support to me, which is really kind of you to do.

SPEAKER_00: 8:04

But we were I was six years in, I was six years past it. Do you know what I mean? So it wasn't as raw. I knew you were raw. I see your social media, and I was like, that's raw, and that's where I felt but you know, we saw you, we said hello, and I saw you backstage just trying to from whatever way pull yourself together because I knew you wanted to do that. You were doing the comedy stage, and then and I could see you were just like, I can't do this, I just can't front people, and I've been there.

SPEAKER_02: 8:32

I was struggling. Well, um funny enough, I've not actually spoken, I've not spoken about that day. I so I I made a video about that particular day, and then I've kind of left it because what had happened was I was booked to do stand-up comedy, and I was really getting myself into a place where I was trying to get my confidence back. Because the biggest thing for me, and I don't want to make this episode about me because this is about you, Wayne, but just like it's about both of us because we're gonna learn from each other's experiences. Yeah, hopefully, definitely definitely. And and I think at that at that time in my life, I I was probably getting and you touched on it a second ago where you said like time isn't necessarily a healer, but you just over time things get easier for you to process, but also actually over time you just become a better actor as well. I think that I think time it does get easier, but maybe for all types of different reasons. For me, it was like not being in the public eye, because that sounds like cringy because I've don't I'm not, but being out there and you post yourself out there, it's like people have to have this perception of you, and I didn't want them to have a perception that oh, I'm still crying on the internet and I'm still sad about it. So I was kind of thinking and convincing myself I'm in a better place, I've got my confidence back. And then I was booked to do stand-up comedy, and we'd written a really good I I liked it anyway, and some friends I showed, they was like, Matt's it's funny, it's really good. You were like, I think you'd be good at it. And then the day came round, and something had happened, which I won't talk about, but just one little thing, and it knocked me, it got in my head. It got in my head, and you saw me pacing up and down, and I was pacing up and down because I was like, the pressure I've got to go on and do this in like half an hour. There's a crowd building. It was also I was told there was gonna be like 10 people there, and there was like 250 people turned up, which is silly me for putting it on my social media, like fine, that's my own fault. But I started just getting in my own head about stuff, and that's when I think we bumped into each other, and I was just like, I can't do, I just can't do this, and I was just fuck spot that whole weekend was ruined for me because I feel like I'd let people down, I'd let myself down, I'd let other people down, and yeah, it was hard. I I think I went on and I actually recorded it was I mean it was cringy, I shouldn't have done it, but I I sort of recorded I was so proud of it, but I just wasn't brave enough to do it to a crowd, so I just recorded it myself and posted it online, which actually I posted it to Facebook and everyone absolutely loved it, so much positivity. Posted it to TikTok and everyone was like, What a twat, what are you doing? And it was like so two ends, and I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_00: 11:11

I don't that's different audiences, and that's that's the thing, isn't it? Like the Facebook, Facebook is an older audience, we know that tick tock, Instagram, they're the younger audience, and they're not experienced, they're not life experiences and that you know what I mean to it's just good, but quick scrolling.

SPEAKER_02: 11:27

I think Facebook I've built such a like a loyal following, so it's nice to that like and even if I guess even if everyone of my followers hated it, they they thought I was too fragile to tell me that. So they was just nice about it. But yeah, so we then so we then bumped into each other, and that's when we had had a bit of a a bit of a chat. I think you was DJing, you was just backstage, or you was just about to go on. I was like, Yeah, just about to go on.

SPEAKER_00: 11:54

I was running the stage, managing the stage there, and obviously always backstage. So when I see you pacing up and down, I instantly don't know. Was it felt sorry, not felt sorry for you, but I thought all of automatically felt I've been there. Do you know what I mean? I've been in that position, and I can almost see that you're you're going through something that you just need to release, or uh you can't suck it up, but you have to go, oops, dear. So that's why I reached out to you when you were there because I just thought, you know what? And I'm I'm a people pleaser, I don't want to upset anybody if it makes sense. Like yeah, when I do the festivals, be it if even if it was someone's garden, I want to give them the best that I can provide and probably more. Yeah, they can pay for X or they want this, and I'll go above and beyond. So if I only want two speakers, I'll put like you know, I did one recently, a garden party, a 60th birthday in a garden. All they wanted was background music, but I took my equipment and I was I said to said to the person whose party it was have you got grandkids or kids coming? He was like, Oh, there's gonna be a couple. So I took my bubble machine. Now that's that's chargeable extra, but I knew the kids wanted something in the garden. Yeah, I put that in, I do that, and I will do it. I'll go above and beyond for I want to do everything at the best of my ability. I always have done, you know what I mean? And that's that's where we start, and that's where my issues started when I split up with my ex-partner.

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

So what so what age would you so you said obviously when you were six, because this is a this is a like a thing for me where uh uh and uh you know I've never said this out loud, but it's a fairly obvious thing. But obviously, you know, splitting up, and I've got Harper who's was three, now she's four, she's gonna be five in like two weeks. It's like it's scary, but also what how is it how does it affect her? And obviously we try and co-parent as best as we can, but I I struggle I struggle with it, I'll be honest. Like, I do I do struggle because I don't want to share it with anyone.

SPEAKER_00: 13:55

My parents split up when I was six and I got moved out of London with my mum to Stephenish, to an auntie's that's what happens, do you know what I mean? So that didn't affect me. I don't think that affected me, you know. What affected me was and I don't I look at it now, and it's only really now that because because obviously I went through what I went through and I've tried to almost open myself up. I've I I've been to counsellors, and truthfully, I think they're a waste of time because you only they they can only do what you tell them. So if you're not actually opening up to them, they can't really, you know, it's an opinion, isn't it? Yeah, like there's what's the qualification as a counsellor? It's not, it's an opinion. Yeah, and I've had that opinion from a lot of people I've spoken to, but never spoken about pre-mastered separation, if it makes sense. And it's only since then other things have happened that I've then gone, actually, do you know what? When I look back, I was I've probably been a train wreck for my whole life. Oh yeah, ready to happen. Yeah, just ready because quick summation. My my parents split up, you know, my mum, my dad split up, me and my brother with my mum over the course of a period of time, social services, get involved with the separation, this, that and the other. Suddenly, my my brother's living with my dad. And I'm living with my mum now.

SPEAKER_02: 15:21

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00: 15:21

For me, I I look at this and I go, Who, who, whoever separates siblings?

SPEAKER_02: 15:26

Yeah, that's mad. But was that just a different time? Is that just what they did back then?

SPEAKER_00: 15:30

Exactly that. I don't know. I mean, I can actually remember this. I I've got a good good memory, and I actually do remember a conversation saying why. And and I must have never been six, and I I just remember it. And my brother didn't want to be in Stephen is, so he wanted to be back in London with my dad because he's three years older than that.

SPEAKER_02: 15:52

I was gonna say, is he an older brother? Is he an older brother?

SPEAKER_00: 15:54

So he might have been given that choice. Yeah, I think he was like, No, I want to be there with my friends and family, my dad, my dad, dad. And so then they made I'll do that. So but uh subconsciously I don't think that affected me. But it clearly did because everybody, if you've got a sibling, you need a bond. Yeah. And this is where I mean, it's such a weird long-winded story, but I can refer back to that with issues later on. So that's I've got and then I've moved to an auntie's, and then my mum's met someone else, moved in with him. He had a son and a daughter, a daughter the same age as me, but truthfully, we we we we got on, but we didn't get in get on, if it makes sense. Do you know what I mean? You then you have a you have a clash, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:35

You sort of had to, you had to get on because of that of the situation you were thrown in.

SPEAKER_00: 16:38

And then they and then they split up. So then suddenly I've had an original family, another family, but now that family's not there. And uh by that point I've almost got to, you know, I'm self-sufficient. I had a step I had a stepdad, but to be truthful, we weren't a fucking stepdad, it was just a bloke in the house that because he never felt like a dad to me.

SPEAKER_04: 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:02

The problem I also had is my dad never felt like a dad to me because I just felt that he almost used me as a pawn, if it makes sense. You know, I remember I used to go down every other weekend, and don't get me wrong, I know of an occasion where he didn't have enough money to get a return train fare, so he walked from North London to Stephenage, uh to Hitchin. Wow. To meet me at a train station because he can afford a ticket to get home. So he cared. Yeah. And this is something that I've never really spoken to anybody about. My dad never had a father figure. Right. So I don't think he knew how to be a father if it makes sense. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't unintentional, I don't think he did it unintentionally, but I think then as a dad, he met someone else, had had another another another child, son, and he's my he's my half-brother, and we get on, or we haven't spoken for a while for some reason, but that's just I done we I done become self-sufficient. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Very, very young age. So through teenager years, I was self-sufficient. I never put anything on my mum because I'm just I didn't feel thought that. Do you know what I mean? It's just so I just become quite compartmentalized on myself.

SPEAKER_02: 18:15

So what sort of age were you when that when you started to feel like that? When you when you was when you had the conscious thought of I'm basically self-sufficient now?

SPEAKER_00: 18:25

I think I was probably truthfully, probably around the early teenagers. You know, if something needed to do, then I'd do it. I'm quite practical, so if if something was broken, I'd take it apart.

SPEAKER_02: 18:39

But that's young, that's a young age to have to feel that though.

SPEAKER_00: 18:42

Yeah, and I don't think that was it wasn't put on me, but I just think it just it was like, yeah, you know, mum's going to work, mum's got a new husband, new family, did something. I live in the family. We we didn't not get on, but we didn't, you know, there was no bond there. So it was almost like single child. I did see my brother, but but when it comes to the early teenage years, obviously, there's a different development, and and there is a different development. You grow up in London, you're a little bit more independent. So my brother's got jobs on the market stalls at 13, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:11

So I'd go down there, he'd be working. I didn't get days with him, I just got couple of hours with him or whatever it is. So then I kind of did the same thing because it was like, well, you know, mum's working, mum really can't afford everything. I would I didn't live in poverty, I wasn't fucking hard done by, but I kind of saw a lifestyle. My brother was earning his income at a young age, and he was buying the nice designer trainers that is that, and and I'm getting like, you know, mum's buying me trainers, but it's 30 quid. That's that's your limit, in it. And it's like, yeah, right, okay, so I'm getting the job. I had paper rounds, I worked in shops, I did a market stool for a period of time. So I've always done it. Like now I'm I get up at five o'clock in the morning because I wake up at five o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_02: 19:53

So that's my body. So it gave you so it gave you a drive, it gave you a drive and an ambition because you had you had to. Well, you didn't have to because, like you say, it wasn't put on you, but you you saw, I guess, your brother, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounded like how you describe that then. He sort of become the not the father figure, but the person you sort of looked up to to think, oh, he's the male figure that I want to be like, and that become your brother rather than anyone else.

SPEAKER_00: 20:17

Yeah, he's got his life, and he wasn't, I was sorry, he's only two years older than me, but he had cash in his pocket. Yeah, and that's the truthful. You know, you've got your designer jackets, you've got your trainers, you've got this, you've got that. As a kid, that's what you want. You want to be with the other. And that's what it was. So I got a job, I worked, I did this, you know, go down and see them whenever I could. By the time I was 14, I wasn't doing the access visits once every month or whatever. I was if I had a Saturday off, I'll get the train and go down and see.

SPEAKER_04: 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:47

See my brother, see my dad for an hour, see my half-brother for an hour or two, put the train get home again. But then that's that's teenage years. We all do that, you know. Once you become a teenager, you're independent, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02: 20:56

Well, that's it, that's it. Yeah, and then you can make your own choices of when you want to see.

SPEAKER_00: 21:00

I just think I was a lot more independent early on compared to how others are. Do you know what I mean? And that's yeah, that's the way I've become. So by that point, I think that then made me through the schooling age and this, that, and the other, I was me. And very much you accept me, you don't accept me. I really couldn't give a monkeys. Yeah, you know, I had this conversation the other day. I can truthfully say I don't think I've ever had a best friend.

SPEAKER_02: 21:27

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00: 21:28

Which is the weirdest thing. I've got some real good close friends, but I haven't got a friend from school age that I would go thank very much, like like lean on.

SPEAKER_02: 21:41

Well, you probably never really had a support network that because you are you are your own support network.

SPEAKER_00: 21:48

Yeah, yeah, and that's how I become, and it's so deep rooted in me. And this is where now, like when I messaged you the other day, because I knew there was something wrong with you, and you replied you good, and I gave you that answer of well, do you want the man answer or do you want the truthful answer? Yeah, like because I can tell you, yeah, I'm fine. But actually, no, I'm not.

SPEAKER_02: 22:08

No, I'm not, but but that's why I've that's why I replied and said, always the truthful answer. Always the truth, because I've been there, and that's what we mean. That's what you need. Yeah, and it's so easy. And I've done it, I've done it even recently where where a mate has said, Are you alright? And I'll be like, Yeah, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00: 22:28

Well, I've known it with you, I've known it with you, and I've seen stuff, and I message you, and you send one back going, yeah, and I'm like, Well, I know you're fucking not, yeah, but what I'll do is I'll just pull back a little bit because I know you've got others there, and you've got the two, do you know what I mean? Our scullying and that, yeah. So, but it's also having that extra option if it makes sense. And you don't have to open your heart out to me, but I also think on that front that as men, and we are brought up as Neanderthals, and we're we're still cavemen, whether we pretend we're not, you know, we want to be we want to be that provider, and we also don't want to be having health. And the whole, you know, and this is what this is all about, men's mental health. That whole men's mental health thing, good to talk, good to talk. Actually, do you know what times I no, I don't want to fucking talk. Yeah, but what I want to know is there is someone there if I want to talk.

SPEAKER_02: 23:20

That's the big thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:22

That's the big thing, and that's what affected me a lot, where I felt lonely. As a kid, I felt lonely because I didn't think I had anyone I could speak to. And this is where this is why I say I look back at it now and I look at it, and you think if I had a my brother or sis, my brother that was close to me, I'd have been like, let's talk, let's talk. But we didn't have a bond, I didn't have a brother bond. Yeah, I saw him once a month, you know what I mean? Like once a month, once every three weeks. So it's important that siblings have a bond.

SPEAKER_02: 23:50

I think so. I think I mean, look, and this is what I will say: we we we grew up in a different time, and I've this has come up a couple of times on the podcast because a lot of the guys that I'm speaking to are of our generation, like in their 40s. Well, I'm in my 40s, I don't know about you, but I mean you're just in your 40s.

SPEAKER_00: 24:08

21, Dan. 21.

SPEAKER_02: 24:09

Well, I didn't know if you was like, yeah, but 40 in our 40s, and we were 46. We were brought okay, so we're similar age, but we were brought up it just in a different world, and we and we're now and you said it earlier about your your dad, he didn't have a father figure, but it's like we us that did have a father figure, well, we replicate, you replicate what you how you've been brought up, but we can't do that as as 40 odd year old men. We can't replicate how we were brought up because you can't do that now. You can't, you it's a different style, so you have to break, you have to break that mould, then you have to be different. You're told man up, just get on with it, but then also it's not about man up and get on with it because we're asked different things of us now. It's not just right, we go out all day, go to work, bring the money home. Men and women go out and earn equal pay for the most part, and then we come home and we all do our equal chores. So a lot of stuff has to change because we're told we have to change, but then we're not allowed to talk up. We we're like just told no man up, men have to be men. Like, pick your what side are we?

SPEAKER_00: 25:19

We're so confused, and that is the problem. That is the problem. There is no like, yeah, man up, speak up. Actually, no, don't know. You need to be the man, you need to be the one that you need, and it's still even though I get the you know, is we both go out to work in a relationship. You go out to work, you do this, you do this. Now, when I was in my ex-partner, she didn't, you know, because to be truthful, I'm an electrician, right? And I could earn more on a Saturday morning than what she would with what she was doing in two days, yeah. So when we were together, like she she was I've got five daughters, so you know, she was the mum. She looked after the kids, she did what she did with the kids. She did have a couple of little jobs that little pay and things where she worked at a stable yard with because she had the horses had horses and bits and pieces, and they were the kids' hobbies, and so but I was the main breadwinner, and and I don't have a problem with that because I could go out and more, do you know what I mean? And and give us a good living. So there was never a problem with that, but this is then when we split split up, I then had a rude awakening. Do you know what I mean? And it was like actually, you know, I you had been the same, you split up, you want to be the best dad there is in the world. I wanted to be the best dad in the world when I was when we were with when we were together, yeah. But I was also trying to do the breadwinning and also trying to do this. So subconsciously probably felt that because I was paying towards majority of everything, she did the stuff for the kids, and I was earning. But actually, you're not being a dad in that front, you're you're being a cash machine.

SPEAKER_02: 26:54

You're just being a provider, you're just providing money.

SPEAKER_00: 26:57

Yeah, it was hard, and I do I still beat myself up now hard issues with my kids. Um because I've got five daughters, three don't talk to me.

SPEAKER_02: 27:06

Oh wow. I can't I can't even imagine how like that that for me genuinely is like one of my biggest fears, and and and it's like, do you I question myself all the time am I doing the right thing? It should I do that?

SPEAKER_00: 27:21

Like, there's so many things on what I said to you the other day, didn't I? When you said, Oh no, no, and I said, Yeah, but Dan, you've got to remember if you and Lucy were still together, you wouldn't be with Harper all the time. No, because you no, but as soon as you become separated, you're like, I need to be the best dad, I need to do this, I need to do this. You forget about yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 27:39

You do yeah, and that's what that's where I've let myself down because the last 18 months, not not so much in the last three or four months, I've started to look after myself. I've started, you know, going to the gym, just looking, just just being aware that actually, you know, I do need to look after myself a bit more because I do want to be around for Harper. Of course, I want to be around for her for as long as I possibly can, but it is very much you, you when you break up, it's it's I had this pressure of like everything that I did was for my girls, was for my little family, earning the money so that we could go on holiday. And it wasn't uh, you know, I'm not saying every single thing that we did was all me, but all the ideas of my from my brain. I've got books and books and books. It was me coming up with ideas, me standing up till late, me doing this, me planning so, but then all of a sudden you break up and it's like, we'll just go and get a job. Go and get a job, we'll just go and get a job where it's like, well, hang on a minute. This was good enough for everyone a minute ago, and now it's not, and it's like, so you have that pressure. But what does a good dad look like these days? Does is it well just go out and get a job, don't ever see you? And and listen, I know that some parents, mums and dads have to go out and work and they have to have child carers, and and I understand that. I'm just I'm very grateful that I do get time with her.

SPEAKER_00: 28:55

Yeah, yeah, and that's what I had. Like, my oldest daughter, biologically, she's not mine.

SPEAKER_02: 29:02

Okay, it was my ex is when we first got together. How old was she when you and your ex got together?

SPEAKER_00: 29:08

Toddler, toddler.

SPEAKER_02: 29:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 29:10

So she is mine. Biologically, not she's mine. Uh 13, I think I think it was she was either 12 or 13, and uh, and I'm gonna get emotional, and I know I'm going to, and I knew this was coming, but I I don't care because I don't think it's wrong. Like when you you had your issue and you said you you cried on the internet. Mate, bollocks, that's a man. Yeah. That's a man, a man that's in touch with his emotions. And I I don't show emotions at all. Like I'm I'm a fucking nightmare. I'll do it on my own. Do you know what I mean? I'll do it in the car and I'll have a little tear and yeah, that's it. But I took Charlie on when she was twelve, I think it was must have been around about twelve. There was an issue at school when a girl had said to her, Meh mee, he's not your dad, meh and she actually asked me for my surname.

SPEAKER_02: 29:57

So she didn't know so she didn't know this?

SPEAKER_00: 30:00

Before I don't know if she knew, yeah, I don't know if she did know because it was something that I've been there since she was so little. Her dad is completely off the scene. Like, so she's my daughter, yeah. She's my daughter.

SPEAKER_05: 30:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:12

And that is like it's is it still reads true to me now. I remember where we were sitting on the bed when she asked me, and I've got the tears now. And it was the hat one of the happiest moments of my fucking life, mate. Like, and now that girl hasn't spoken to me in seven years.

unknown: 30:33

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 30:33

And has changed and has changed her name back to her mum's. You know, she's taken my name off of her surname. They all had double barrel surnames. And that hurts me. That hurts me. But then I also know like there was issues with Charlie. She, you know, she's she's she's she's had a couple of illnesses as well. She's got long-term illness, she's got E. Fostanos syndrome and a couple of other bits, and she was in and out of hospital, she'd have seizures, blackouts, where she would just completely black out, her body would spasm into shapes, and you couldn't move.

SPEAKER_02: 31:01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00: 31:02

That must have been terrifying. Medical treatment. Like, I I remember an occasion where all the paramedics had come out and they actually sent for the air ambulance just because the only medication that could get her out of these spasms was carried by the air ambulance and specialist crash. They never, because fortunately they managed to get her to come round and and she uh body came out of spasms so they could get her out of the uh where she was onto a bed and out of the house. But and it and this and this inks me up, and I I have written this letter to her. Like all my kids have got different stories, but with Charlie, I I feel like I was a shit dad. Right? Because when she was in hospital, I didn't go.

SPEAKER_04: 31:46

Oh really?

SPEAKER_00: 31:47

I didn't go and I didn't go because I'm selfish, and that's not you know, I'm I'm I'm proud to not proud to admit it, but I'm not ashamed to admit I was selfish. I didn't want to see her in a hospital bed going back to that Neander Foul man thing where I can't do fuckles, yeah. It's just like I don't do hospitals anyway, but then to to know that she's in there and you've got no input over it. So I almost went, deal with it, you know, let my ex deal with it. I'll stay home and look after the kids. I shouldn't have been, I should have been there, but I can't retract that. And I've written it to her and told her that, but obviously, with what happened with her mum and us separating, she's just I don't know what was said to her in her ear or whatever, but she just instantly disowned me within fucking probably five or six weeks.

SPEAKER_02: 32:34

Well, of the separation of the separation, she disowned you, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but since but since she came out of hospital, she was in and out, mate.

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

She was in, she didn't in and out. She went, you know, it's it's hard. She she lived with her nan across the road from us because so many kids in the house, and obviously they had a spare room and it was easier for her to be managed this way. And again, that you should I don't know, parents, you shouldn't do that. We thought it was the best for the whole family because it gave her a dedicated space. And I couldn't be any prouder of that girl, to be honest with you, because she's managed to battle through all of her illnesses, all of her appointments, and everything else, been to university, got herself a law degree, you know. And I've had no input into that, nothing, because this is towards the end of our relationship and then afterwards, and it hurts. I'm I know the thing she's been up to, she's been an advocate, you know, she's been on freaking it was either this morning or something like that, as an advocate for something for for disabilities and being able to study. So yeah, and even when people say to me now, I've got five daughters, I've got five daughters, but she's my daughter. We haven't spoken seven years, but she's just only me, she's my daughter.

SPEAKER_02: 33:45

Well, ultimately, you you you know, you were there when when she was young and when you brought her up, so yeah, it it's you know, she's never gonna she's never gonna get anyone else, you can't just go back in time and change that. Ultimately, uh, it's so hard because I hear this story so so often with not this exact situation, but where a dad has to say, Well, now my job as a dad is to stand back and she'll come back to me when she's ready. And you know what? Why should it's so hard though? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 34:10

And this is this is what I get. This is like what I said to you the other day, like we had a quick chat the other day. I just I'm bored of people saying to me, like with the other two, they'll come round, they'll come round.

SPEAKER_01: 34:22

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 34:24

Charlie's the oldest, Jade is my second oldest, and there's Jasmine who's one one of one of my twins. Again, Jade very shortly after we separated, decided to design have nothing to do with me due to other reasons as well. And and I understand, you know, after I separated my ex six weeks later, I tried to commit suicide.

SPEAKER_03: 34:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 34:50

And it was due I just I just got the world got on top of me.

SPEAKER_04: 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:55

And the whole I'm a ship dad. And also having my children, you know, I I weren't seeing them. You're not seeing them today, you're not that. And I understand because I was a train wreck, I was I was a mess. I didn't know where I was coming, going, you know, lost.

SPEAKER_02: 35:10

It's the it's the biggest re it's the biggest reason that men die by suicide in this. Yeah, I mean I mean men men die by suicide.

SPEAKER_00: 35:16

When I did it, Jade has seen me. Yeah. Jade has seen me on the floor with paramedics around me. And I can't take that memory away from her. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. I just need my kids to know that I'm there for them, yeah, and that's it. She was like my little best mate. Yeah, the bond I had with Jade was ridiculous. Like she played football. She played football for Spurs ladies, and well, you know, we were we were doing four days of four trips a week into London to train. I was lucky because I was also a goalkeeping coach, so the bond that we had was ridiculous. Do you know what I mean? Like we'd we'd we'd be everywhere. We'd be we'd been to St George's Park for court tournaments, for training, you know, in the home of English Training Centre, we we almost had our own space parking space there. We spent like two summers in and out of there with tournaments. She'd she'd been to Holland to train with like Anne Sagas and bits and pieces. So we had that bond. We'd sit in the car on the van on the way to what to football and she'd tell me things like she was talking to her best mate.

SPEAKER_02: 36:35

Yeah. Which is what any dad would want with his little girl.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's how I've always been with my kids. Like, I don't want to be a dad. I want to be a dad, but I want them to know that you know what you do has consequences.

SPEAKER_04: 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

But I'm not gonna bollock you, I'm just gonna educate you into why. If I don't want you to do something, I tell you no.

SPEAKER_02: 36:54

Yeah, I'd much rather, I'd much rather, and it's and it's difficult because I was I was brought up differently, but like I think I would much rather and I know people now that have got parents who who are very, and I'm not saying my parents aren't like this, but it was just a different, it was just a different time. But the point is, I know people now that have got parents who are very open and very like best friends with their kids. So actually, do you know what? If a if if you're child, if if they got in trouble, they could phone for help, not not not knowing they're gonna say, right, what are you doing that for? That's you shouldn't have done that. Like you're in trouble, you're in big trouble. It's more like, right, where are you? What can I do to help? We'd deal with it after. And that's exactly what I would want for Harper.

SPEAKER_00: 37:42

Even now, Dan, even now, like with the three, like if they could phone me at three in the morning, yeah. I wouldn't care if I was in the middle of a DJ set or this and the other, I'd just.

SPEAKER_02: 37:52

Yeah, it's done. Shut it down. That's it.

SPEAKER_00: 37:53

Yeah, plug and go. Yeah, if they if they messaged me, Dad, I need you, I'm there.

SPEAKER_02: 37:56

Yeah. But that's because you're a proud dad. It's it's good that you're a proud dad. I think it's it's terrible what you went through, and the fact that you got to the point where you didn't want to be here anymore. That's that's that's hard to hit to hear, but uh, and I think it would have never been your intention, and I don't want to put words in in your mouth, Wayne, but it would never have been your intention for anyone to have seen you in that situation, especially you you know, one of your girls, it's it's it's unfortunate that that's happened, but I think it's very difficult to understand unless you're in that mindset because you that you put you you have to put yourself you have to put yourself in a situation where you think no one cares anyway, that no one cares anyway. So that's how we can do it. And the fact is, so anyone that's sat there now thinking no one cares, so it doesn't matter, like so many people care. Like, even if you're sat there and you've got to know someone will care, and it's so silly.

SPEAKER_00: 38:55

And the problem is I've gone from you know having the house, the family, the kids, the this at a time of year, Christmas, two days before Christmas, to be told I can't do this anymore, it's over. Yeah, I'm going, I'm going to stay somewhere. And I said, No, you're not going to stay nowhere. I'll go because I've got somewhere I can go, whereas you really haven't. Probably I shouldn't have fucking done that.

SPEAKER_02: 39:24

But but that's because what as men, sorry to interrupt you, but that's as men what we're told to do.

SPEAKER_00: 39:28

But but yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm Spartan. And so I did that, and then suddenly I've gone from having you know the the the three-bedroom house, the kids around me, although they're annoyed the shit out of you making noise and you want that bit of peace, to then being on the bed in my mum's spare room. And what probably doesn't help it was also across the road from my house.

SPEAKER_02: 39:56

Like oh, so you got to see, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:59

Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, like I say, that was just fucking time or I had two years of just battling constant. Like, I get it, and I'm and and I'm not gonna bad mouth my ex because she made a decision. Well, what what instigated that indecision that has never ever been given? I've never been told the truth. I I'll still find out now some of the things I'll get accused of. Do you know what I mean? And I'm like, fuck my life. Like, all I ever wanted to do is work us out and make sure that the the kid, and if we weren't gonna work out, then I'm gonna make sure that the kids are good. Yeah we we've got to both co-parent, but there was no co-parenting, if it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02: 40:36

It was very much so it just shut down us. That's I'm now the parent, you're gonna get told you can have them when you can have them, when if and if and it's very easy, and again, I don't want to I don't want to cause with anyone that's listening to this like a big thing, but I can only base it on other people's stories that I get told, not my own circumstances, but it's very easy for a woman to turn around and say, No, you leave the house, no, I'm having the kids. It they have all the power when it comes to the kids, and that and I and I think men are told not to use them as pawns, but it's men that have to spend thousands of pounds at court to just see their own kids, and it's fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_00: 41:22

I have not done that, I've just gone okay. Yeah, I've never argued, I've never gone, you know. You can have them every other weekend and you can have them two nights a week. They're not staying, they can stay at the weekend. Then suddenly they're not coming tonight, we go into so-and-so's house. Well, okay, this is not having them this weekend.

SPEAKER_02: 41:42

This is part of them getting older though.

SPEAKER_00: 41:43

I booked a trip for somewhere. I'm like, This was when they were younger. Oh, okay. This was I was being told, you know, you're not having them this weekend because I've booked a trip for them to go to so and so. Well, why didn't you book that trip on the weekend you've got them?

SPEAKER_04: 41:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:59

Because it was all done like blah, even down to being told after Christmas. Oh, yeah, you're not, you're not, you're not having the girls for the next four days because they're in Disneyland.

SPEAKER_02: 42:14

It's all dictated, it's all dictated to you.

SPEAKER_00: 42:17

So they've left the country, they're now in Euro Disney, and you're deciding to tell me I'm not seeing them. But I knew full well that their passports have been renewed renewed six months beforehand, so it wasn't the surprise present because fucking you've planned this.

SPEAKER_02: 42:31

It was planned, yeah. But this is what's I think this is what's hard is I d and listen, I can't speak for all men, but I just I can't, and I'm sure there's circumstances, and I know for a fact, I know how difficult it is when that kind of situation crops up. Now it's I think it's different for you because you had five girls, you had five children. For some men that I've heard stories from from women who have it may be the woman that's made the decision, and the man has just been like, right, fine, I'm done. Cut, cut, move on, move out, find someone new, start a whole new life, and forget about that child, which to me is mental. Like I just don't know why you would do that, but but I can understand it. No, I can't understand it because I I'm wrong to say that I can understand it because I can't, because I would walk through fire to get to Harbour. But it's like it's like when you see this pressure that's put on men, and it's and it's you're dick, you're told, right? Well, no, I've done this, and you just got to deal with it. Well, no, they're in Disneyland, but it's my weekend and I've booked, I've paid money out. I might not have much money, I've paid my last amount of money out to take her to a shut the cinema. It's cost me my last 30 quid, but you're taking her to Disneyland, and I've not been even consulted. And it's like we just have to deal with it. We have to deal with sucking everything.

SPEAKER_00: 43:57

Yeah, suck it up, suck it up doing what I want, get on with it. And um whatever I say is gonna happen. And you just I could have argued, but I don't want to argue. I've been through that. Do you know what I mean? I've been I've been through parents separating, I've been through I've watched bitterness, I've seen my dad remarry, my dad then split up. I saw my mum remarry, my mum split up. I thought, I mean, I was older then my my mum my mum split up, and she's got someone else, and to be fair, like a new partner who's amazing, like fucking he's great. And and my girls called him granddad because he'd been around long enough.

SPEAKER_04: 44:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:30

My my my dad yeah, my my dad saw Jade, my second eldest, when she was six months old. Never seen the others. Um oh really, what and that's that's it. She's yeah, he'd never seen the other three that are younger. Because he's just a fucking arsehole, to be honest with you. Like, and I just got to that point where again, this goes back to the time and time again. I worked with him for a few years. So I was it I I I was working for the electrical firm, he was working for the building firm, but there were two brothers that owned two different companies that work the same yard. And I still remember to this day where you know he's coming to the yard on a Monday morning. Friend of mine, he lived in London. I lived in at the time, Offley, Hertfordshire.

SPEAKER_04: 45:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:17

I remember him coming into the yard one day and saying he'd been out for a lovely meal with some woman on a date. And I was like, right, and it described this pub he'd been to for a meal that was 500 yards away from my house. Like, and then he's telling me that he can't come and see me at my my kids, his grandkids, on the chance that my mum might be there. Like, fuck off. And that's what that's what kind of driven me when when I when I split over my ex, was like, no, I'm not gonna be that shit, dad. Yeah, yeah, but it's out of my control. Like, I'd give the world for my kids. I did give the world for my kids when we were together, I'd still give the world for my kids now, and then it gets it gets fucking harder and harder. Like, for me, I'd I'd rebuilt my life. Like, this is where I've gone back into DJing. I DJ'd when I was a kid, I stopped. When I split up with her, I was a mess. I was a trainer, and an old school friend that I DJ'd with actually reached out to me on social media and went, You're coming out with me. And he was still DJing, so I went out with him a couple of nights while he was DJing, and that got me back into the DJing scene. And for me, I love it, it's a hobby. Yeah, yeah, and I'm lucky, I get paid for it for uh on occasions, which is great, but it's again to this mental health thing for me. We all have mental health issues, we just have to have a way of stopping the triggers.

SPEAKER_04: 46:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:50

And also, you also have to have a way of like say the the the kid scenario with me is it's always in my head. Yeah, always in my head. No matter what I do, I can't, you know, if I take one of them to well, I've got I've got Lacey who you you met at GoatFest last year who DJ'd with me.

SPEAKER_02: 47:07

Incredible DJ. I'm not gonna say she's better than you.

SPEAKER_00: 47:12

To be fair, mate, it is what it is like. But for me, that was almost like the pinnacle last year. I could have quite happily not DJ'd again.

SPEAKER_02: 47:19

Because to say you've DJ'd on the festival stage with your 15-year-old daughter at the time, like the emotions that went through me that night were just like the fact that it's a hobby, it's it's probably not just a hobby for you, it's a it's a it's probably a passion as well. Music is probably DJ's passion.

SPEAKER_03: 47:35

It's an escape.

SPEAKER_02: 47:36

This is what I was gonna say. While you're up there, and I watched some of your set, but just in between when I was trying to escape doing my own comedy set, you I could see like you love being up there and you love being on the stage, and you was you look hap happy, and I and I'm all the conversations we've had, I know that we have struggles, but you do seem happy now, you do seem in a happier place. But on stage, you seem like a sort of different and elevated version of yourself because you was music for a lot of people is an escape. I will sit and listen to music, but like I will always have playlists on, and I will quite often a song will just come along and it hits me and it get it just gets me. There's there's two songs, I'll tell you the two songs, and you'll I don't know why I've got them in my playlist, but I also do know why I've got them in my playlist because one of them is just reminds me of my nan. Like I was so close to my nan and my granddad, but this song reminds me of my nan, and I hit it as soon as it comes on that first chord, I'm like, I it's got me. It's called Dancing in the Sky by I think Beverly Beverly someone, and it's Dancing in the Sky, and it's just a it's just a it's a really sad song to be a sad, but then I just look up at the sky and I just and and I don't want to feel sad all the time, but I also do want to remember my nan.

SPEAKER_00: 48:50

Yeah, yeah, and that's the problem, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 48:51

You're like, oh, oh, oh, oh that's the problem, and I have to and I sometimes if I'm getting in the right headspace, like and I had to do this yesterday because I went to ro I went to record another podcast for someone else yesterday. And it might be the same for you when you're DJing, you you sometimes have to get in the right zone. And I was just just pulling up down this down the road to the studio, and it's James Arthur, Emily, which he sung a song about his little girl, and it got I was like, nope, I need to skip that. Can't have cannot have that because it will get me, it will get me when he starts singing about singing her to sleep and stuff, and it just gets me. But music is a it does make you feel, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 49:30

So to have that the amount of people that I've worked with, associated with, obviously with DJ, and then this, that, and the other, the amount of DJs I know suffer massively, suffer massively with mental health issues.

SPEAKER_01: 49:47

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 49:49

I think any music is full of both emotions. 90% of the songs are either sad or the happiest things, and it depends on your own mindset. Yeah, you can see them as sad or you can see them as happy, and then that's having a a better mindset as well. Like, are you a glass half half empty or are you a glass half full kind of person? Now I know prior to my separation I was probably you know glass half empty.

SPEAKER_04: 50:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 50:19

But from doing what I did that night, I've obviously took myself to the basement and I've rebuilt myself, and then I've realized I know I can be negative. I like listen, we we we can all be. And I'm not negative for the sake of being negative, I'm negative because I want to see positive outcomes of things. Do you know what I mean? So if I do an event and I find I think something's not right, I'm not being negative, I'm doing it because let's make this better.

SPEAKER_02: 50:44

But do you know what I mean? I think that's the problem with the the day and age that we're in now. It's just every you can't say something negative without everyone being like, oh, he's moaning again. And it's like, no, it's not moaning, but but some people are just passionate about getting things right and doing things properly, or just have an opinion. It doesn't not everyone walks around on cloud nine all of the time. Because if they are, then they should be in a mental hospital. I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that, but you can't physically be that you can't physically be that happy all the time, and so things go wrong in people's lives. You can't possibly have trauma of any significant thing where you might, I don't know, we won't list things that are traumatic, but you can't have trauma and then just be happy from it. Like you can come out the other side of it, and I'm a big believer that okay, you can come out the other side thinking, right, that was really bad. What have I learned from that and how can I better my life? And I'm all for that. Like one of the books in the Ashley Walters, like a friend of mine wrote it, and and that's all about lessons of okay, that went wrong and I failed. But what did I take from that that makes me better and to move on? And I'm all for that. But and I think sometimes we have to just say, Yeah, okay, do you know what we need to just have a little bit of a moan and a rant, and then we'll reset and we'll move forward.

SPEAKER_00: 52:02

Yeah, 100%, 100%. You can't always be positive, you can't always be happy. We've all got issues that we're dealing with, we can mask them. It's about having the release, and I'm and I'm lucky. I'm lucky because I've got that release, you know. I can go and DJ, or I can go and do because I do sound controls or lighting controls or stage management, yeah. And it's still only a hobby. I still got a full-time job, I still work Monday to Friday. Do you know what I mean? I'm just I just have to be busy as well. That's the thing. I don't sit down, I don't sleep, I don't but what I do is I I'll also listen to a people watch. So if I go for a walk, I'll people watch. I quite happily sit down and you know, I did it a couple of weeks ago. I went for like a ridiculous two and a half hour walk on the beachfront. I went walk from Clacton to St. Hose's and back again. Just looking out at the sea and looking at people, and you're almost predicting what they're gonna do. Like, and I walk back again, and I'm like, I was right, they've done it.

SPEAKER_02: 52:58

Like, I'll make up stories for people. I I make up like backgrounds for like I make give them names and make up like what they're what their lives are all about, just to keep give me something. I love people watching. I often just sit up at Blue Water, get myself a coffee, and just sit there for an hour and just like watch and just see what people are up to.

SPEAKER_00: 53:13

Yeah, I love it. I think you can learn a lot from people watching, yeah. Yeah, you can learn a hell of a lot from people watching, yeah. Like just see some of their actions or um my I'd obviously I do it when with the DJ, and you can see people that come in at the beginning of the night all prim and proper and this, and you're like, well, that's a fake attire, four drinks later. You're like, Yeah, there you go. The real you is it, the real you is it. That's often me, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 53:38

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 53:40

I actually stopped drinking 18, 19, 20 months ago.

SPEAKER_02: 53:44

Well, good on you. It's a hard thing to do. I th I for me, I I a lot of the advice that was thrown at me, and trust me, I'd had so many messages that were sent to me when I posted that video about what happened. But the but the one that kept coming through was whatever you do, do not go down the route of drink and all of this and doing all these other things. So I didn't and I purposely like stepped away. But I'll have like a night now and again. But so what what made you stop drinking?

SPEAKER_00: 54:12

What what was there a was there a reason I've never I've I've never been a big drinker. I like a drink and I can have a drink and I can have a massive blowout. I used to have being able to have a massive blowout. I was quite fortunate if it makes sense as I've got a different I've got a good alcohol tolerance, so I could not drink for months and months and months and have to go and keep up with the boys and have a full night out. And I'm not one that's free drinks in and you're you're paralytic. For me, it was when we split up and when I did what I did, uh like I say, I'd gone on this. I didn't know where I was, I was just drinking. Yeah, it wasn't getting smashed at all, so it weren't me, but it was it but it became a coping mechanism. Yeah, keep yourself busy, go out, go out, and then mates would find out and they're going, Come and have a drink, come and have a drink, come and have a drink. And it's like that's great because I'm socializing with you and we're having a drink and you're keeping me occupied. But what happens is of course, alcohol is no different to any other drunk, it's a stimulant. Yeah, so once you've had that high, you're coming down, yeah. So I I semi-stopped like for semi-stopped drinking. Then I started two years ago. Friend of mine opened a cocktail bar, and of course, I was DJing in there. Have a drink, have a drink, have another one, have another one, have another one, have another one. Cool, no dramas, not a problem. Get a taxi, come home, blah blah blah. Um and then something happened. Something happened with Lacey, my youngest. And you know, I was literally like, Well, she said, I'm not gonna see you for the next two weeks. I've got to study for exams. And I was like, and it almost that was like another trigger of well, hang on a minute. I've got Charlie don't talk to me, Jade don't talk to me, Jasmine, who is one of my identical twins, she doesn't talk to me because she I I I saw her when we separated and up till three years ago, and then her other sister, her identical twin sister, decided she couldn't live at home anymore and moved out. So it was like fuck. And then there became a divide between them two. Jasmine then decided at that point that I don't want I don't want nothing to do with you, Dad. I mean the words from her was you've clearly got your favourite. I want nothing to do with you. And it was like, well no, I haven't got a favourite at all. There is no favourite, like there is no favourite in any of my kids, like but Lily's moved out. Lily's run away from not run away from home, but decided she don't want to be there, yeah, because clearly the environment, and I know it was because we had that conversation, and I I speak to Lily, and Lily's now moved to Devon.

SPEAKER_02: 56:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 56:40

Right. So at 16 years old, she decided to move out of home and moved into the farm in the in our village because that's where she spent a lot of time through lockdown because of the horses and the house, and Jazz was there as well. Whatever happened, Lil decided she didn't want to be at home anymore because she was sick and tired of hearing me bad mouthed and bits and pieces, and she was like, No, fuck off, he's my dad. Like I'm done, I'm I can't be here. And then Jazz decided to stop talking to me. So I've literally I've then got three daughters that I've lost.

SPEAKER_02: 57:11

Because that's your fault, because you've been you've then taken the blame for that, even though you're not even in the the environment.

SPEAKER_00: 57:16

It was my fault. Lily moved out, and I've got a favourite because I'm spending more time with her. Well, I wasn't actually spending more time with her, but there was a belief put in that I was, do you know what I mean? So then obviously I'm then in the cocktail bar, and then I've had Lacey say I'm not seeing you for two weeks. And nobody knows, nobody knows the reason why I stopped drinking. I I tell everybody it's because I'm always working and I don't want to have a drink, and I don't want to so you're the first one that I'm telling the truth to. And I just felt at that point I uh I was a mess. And I'd gone to the cocktail bar, and they were like, Come on, have a drink, have a drink, have a drink, have a drink, have a drink, and I did, and I had two or three shots and a drink and a drink and a drink, and then the next morning I got up and I was like, No, I'm lower than I can never be.

SPEAKER_02: 58:02

Like 'cause that massive calm down, that the hangover and the calm down.

SPEAKER_00: 58:06

Yeah, I I just felt it. I just felt like no no no, this is this is fucked my emotions.

SPEAKER_02: 58:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:10

Like I I I'm low, I'm now feeling shit. Lily's in Devon, like, which is you know, it that was a massive thing. It was almost a two almost an 18-month process about her moving. Because they were selling where she was living, they were selling the farm, and they only wanted one particular place that they were they were buying, and then that sort of like fell through, then it didn't, then the sales didn't. So it was an 18-month period where I didn't know what I was gonna have to do. Yeah, um, and I think, like I said to you, at Goat Fest when we met, and I said to you, do you know what time again? That time will come around, and you you you I think you said to me, Oh, I don't know what's gonna happen. And I said, I feel exactly the same, mate, but I'd met someone new, yeah. And I met someone new out of the blue, like truthfully, it I didn't want to meet anybody. I got I got happy with myself, so this was end of lockdown, and I'd you know I got happy with myself because I spent lockdown pretty much on my own in this little gaff, like it's freaking it's a converted garage, like so it's my little den. I spent enough time in lockdown on my own, and then I'm and I and I met her, and it was like, Jesus Christ, I am worthy, and someone loves me. Like and it's it's amazing, but I still had that whole like with Lily. Is she moving? Is she not moving? She didn't want to go to Devon, so then I'm instantly like fuck right, I've got to get out of this place, I've got to find at least a two-bedroom property because she's gonna have to come and move in with me and this and ever. And it was only literally the day before they were due to go that she decided to go because we had a conversation, and I said, Go. I don't want you to go, yeah, but I want you to go because you probably need to get away from this environment because it must have been for her, it must have been turmoil. 16 years old, she's moved out of home, you know. Almost instantly, the family stopped talking to her. Her like her sister's not talking to her, she's got your chip messages to her, and you're like just bitten this. And I said to her, Go, go, if you don't like it, come back. Yeah, like no matter, I'll find somewhere for you to live, we'll do it. You can get the nans for a short period of time if you have to, or yeah, you know, we'll do all of it. And again, she's down there, so I I'm in isolated. I've literally I'm on my own. Like Lacey's not seeing me, and I've gone into that almost spiral because of drink, and then I just got up that day after having that skimple when I went, No, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'm not doing it because I don't need to be put in a hole. And I don't mean physically, but I mean mentally, I don't want to be put in that hole. I'm just controlling my emotions about not seeing the kids. I don't want an influence to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:50

Yeah, because something like that can you can put it can push you over the edge, you can put yourself in a mind frame that you just don't want to be in. You end up going off the rails even more. It's just it's a bad path to go down. So fair, but I respect you for that massively because you've done that of your own accord. And it's not as if you've it's not as if you've you know drunk so much, you've passed out, and you're like, right, I can't do that again. You've literally just had that mind thought, that thought of I just want to clear mind, I just could want to manage my emotions. So yeah, I respect you for that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:20

I got I got up in the morning and was like, no, I can feel I can feel my feeling going low, do you know? And I was like, I removed that from the equation, which is what I did. Um I don't need to have a drink to have a good time. No, I quite have to socialise, and I've still got people going talking boring bastards. Call me what's it?

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:36

So what yeah, that's it. I think when you get to a certain age though, you just don't care anyway. Like I'm I'm older now, and if I go out and someone's like, Oh, you're not doing shots? No, I'll do what I want. I'll do what I want. If I'm an adult, I don't I don't need to be peer pressured into drinking apple sours at two o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:50

Like usual, I've probably been caused a lot worse worse over the last seven years.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:55

Yeah, I can cope with I can cope with a mate who's gonna get over it.

unknown: 1:01:59

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:01

How is your mental health like now? Right, like right now. You've obviously been through it and I appreciate you opening up. But how are you now?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:08

I'm good. I'm good. I know when I'm having a bad day.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:12

Yeah. What's your cop? What's your coping mechanism when you are having a bad day? What do you do to reset?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:18

Exercise was one. I hit the gym massively and then I stopped, and then actually at the beginning of this year, I did a charity boxing match because I actually challenged myself to go, do you know what? Let's do this. I'm gonna be around, but and then when I signed up to it, as soon as I went there and met up with three or four people that had signed up as well, they were all the same. It was like, right, we're gonna do a fitness thing, but we're also gonna all all had some form of mental health issue or something. Well, yeah, they're all mental health issues. We've all we've all got mental health issues. You only think something is a mental health issue. Every single one of us on this planet has got it, it's just how we deal with it. So for me, that was A, I wanted to raise money for cancer research because I've had friends that have died, my landlord died of cancer, so I felt like I wanted to do something for him in the process, and also it was a a reason to get back and do exercise. Do you know what I mean? So I was training twice a week in the boxing gym, but I was going out at five o'clock every morning for a jogger in my village to do bits and pieces. So it's exercise and reflection, yeah. Yeah, and like I said, too. I went I went to the beach and walked up and down the beach and just watched people and watched the sea and watch water.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:29

So for me, the two things are I I sort of get to do the two things, I combine them because actually I've started going to the gym, and for me it's sort of partly for for for fitness. Of course, it is you're going to a gym, but for me it is also actually just to have that little bit of tranquility where I've not got my phone, I'm just in the gym, I'm just working out, I don't have to worry about like anyone around me, and I can go and sit in the steam room and like no one talks, and it's just it's just and my mind is and sometimes you overthink, which is is bad. But I've tried I've tried to control that and use it for positive thinking. We're working on a couple of well, obviously we've just ours just been launched perfectly damaged, which is a fill, a film or a series that I was in with we're working on a new project together, and I'm trying to keep my social media career going. So I use that time now where I'm sat there to be like, what can I think of? Like, what positive ideas can I think of? And the people watching for me really helps because that's where all my ideas used to come from. I'd watch people and I'd be like, ah, they've just done that. But it what if he didn't do that? And what if he did it? And I'd be that person that would then make that video, like the alternative.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:37

There's nothing funnier than people, is there, really? Like yeah. I actually did it. I I did it not yesterday, Saturday, then an event Saturday, and it was a DJ Jew on our on after a band. And we wait inside the stage, honestly, and I've never seen it in my life. Like everyone goes and does a little bit of prep, you know, put a new t-shirt on, put a doodies, make sure your hair's not and he got a toothbrush out of his car and cleaned his teeth at the side of the freaking car before we went on stage, and I was just like, I've seen it all. Like, I've seen it all. Like, no one's gonna see your teeth up on the stage. Like, I've I've turned the smoke machine on anyway, so you're alright.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:10

But yeah, people the other thing I was gonna the other the other the other thing I was gonna ask, and this is gonna be I don't know how to word this question, it's a difficult one, but obviously for you, the biggest thing is you've not spoken to three of your girls. What what would you what do you want to happen? Like, what would be your dream scenario? And I know it's so obvious to say, well, I want my three girls to talk to me, but like, what does that look like? What what what that that's a hard one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:42

What does it look like? I don't know. Like I said to you the other day when we had this conversation, and I said I've rebuilt my life completely. I'm doing completely different things, but it doesn't feel complete, you know. I've built a big model, yeah, I've got this little world, a DJ, you know, I've got a new partner, and I'm doing this, and we're doing this, and we're doing that. But no matter what, it's like I've got a big Lego model and there's three bits missing at the bottom, and it's never feeling complete. Yeah, I've I've stepped back, I stepped back, I stepped back. I was told, you know, you've tried too hard, you've pushed her away regarding Jade. You've not tried enough. That's why you don't want nothing to do with you. Well, what do I do? There's an imbalance here. Like I've tried too hard, I'm not done too hard. I've got no I say I've got no formal contact. I could make contact if I wanted to make contact.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:36

I don't want to feel like I've pressured them. I don't know their mobile phone numbers, they've all changed their mobile phones. I'm blocked on social media, you know, it's it's kind of like that. I still know 90% of what they get up to, especially Jasmine and Jade, because I've got a world around me that are like that, yeah, they've been doing they've been up to this, they've been up to that, so but it's not it's not the same though, is it?

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:59

It's not the same as you having that conversation and then finding it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:02

Like I said, I think I did say it to you like with look like with Jade, like seven years I I've missed her GCSE results, I've missed her passing her driving test, I've missed her passing her bike test, I've missed her doing you know her first job, the first boyfriend she's had around with. I didn't get to see her go to prompt. I was like, Dad, that's that's freaking ridiculous. What is the ideal scenario? The ideal scenario is that they know that I love them, they mean the world to me. And there's two sides to every single story. Whatever happened between me and their mum, there are two sides, and then there's the middle. And somewhere amongst their that that they're old enough to have both sides of a story and to make their own opinion. Like for me, I just feel like they've had a lot of stuff thrown in their ears from one side and they've not heard the other side. Give me a chance. Yeah, give me a chance, have a conversation. I'm not gonna say there's right and wrongs, you know. I I can safely say I'll put my hands up. I've never ever badmouthed their mum to them around them and this up because I don't need to. I heard that when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:10

Well, this is it, you've experienced that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:12

Our issues are our issues, their issues are not you know, between me and them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:15

Well, also it's not about right, it's not it's not about right or wrong. It's not about right or wrong, like you're their dad. See, like you're their dad, she's their mum. There is no right or wrong, it's it's you just want a relationship with them, it's just as easy as that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:27

Yeah, there's not a minute of every day, you know what I mean. I don't think about they live in the same village as me, Dan. They drive past me, like I don't know what to do. Like, there's times where I want to just pull the car across the road and stop. Um but I don't want to do that because I don't want to make them feel awkward. So I've I've I've kind of gone, okay, you've made your decision. I have to respect your decision.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:47

Like as much as but it'll be a point that you have to think. I don't think you'd be able to there has to be a point where it changes, where something clicks, and I think you just have to be there when they're ready to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:02

I'm always there, I'll be there. Like I said to you, yeah. Anytime they this, that, and the other one. Like I send them a birthday card, I send them a Christmas card every year. Every year I've sent them a birthday card and a Christmas card because yeah, that's all I feel that I could have done. Do you know what I mean? Like I could have I could have done more. I could have done more, but I beat myself up every day because I don't want rejection.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:21

Yeah, that's it. And you do, but yeah, I I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:24

It's it's it's a hard and I tried and and got rejected, and then like I I mean looked at old social media posts not too long ago where a memory came up and it was and I posted something and it was like three little words mean so much, and it was where I'd sent and I know what it was, I'd sent Jay the birthday card, and I got a Facebook messenger saying thank you. And that that you know, I mean that was five years, four years, five years ago. I don't know, I can't remember, but I almost thought that was a stepping stone, and and then there's silence again. Do you know what I mean? And I want them to know I haven't not made contact with them because I'm I want to be an arsehole, I've not made contact with them because I'm respecting your decision. Yeah, you know, and then that's all I I'd like I'd love them just to message me, you know, let's go for a coffee, let's go for a walk. I don't care. Yeah, like I just want to build a relationship back with them. Like they're they're my weld, it doesn't make any difference. Whatever's happened, like I get relationships separate. Like parents shouldn't, kids shouldn't have to be taking sides and and it it shouldn't affect anybody. Like, I don't want nothing to do with their mum, that's fine. Like that's life. She made her decision, like so. I respect her decision, I don't agree with her decision, but you know what, I've rebuilt my life, and I and and I'm lucky I've been able to do something that I lost because of the family life that I had. So obviously the DJing is stopped it. So I now do stuff for myself probably a bit too much, and I don't do things for other people when I should do. Like, but how do you how'd you manage that balance?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:05

I just it's having that balance, but I think the fact that it's even that you've even had that thought that you know you'll you'll uh at some point find that find that happy balance, but you seem in a much better place anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:16

I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm in a good, I'm in a good place, like we all have our ups and downs, like I know you have your ups and downs, and I probably that's what I say. I reach out to you, and I've had other people reach out to me. The whole we need to talk things sometimes. I think people need to just retract sometimes, because I remember people saying to me, Come on, come on, come on, come on. And like I've done with you when I've messaged you, and I know you've come back with a reply, and it's almost like a reply as if to say, like, I am, but I'm not, but I'm dealing with it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's dealing with me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:45

That's exactly that's exactly the same. It's like I know there's somebody there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:49

Yeah, that's it. It's just no. Sometimes it's just knowing actually I'm okay because someone someone cares enough to have asked, and sometimes that is enough. Sometimes that is just enough.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:01

So no, I'm good, I'm in a happy place, I am good, you know. Life's busy. There's things I could change, I would change, there's things I wouldn't change, but isn't that everybody for the rest of my life? Do you know what I mean? We can we all do the same things. We all do we can all change things. And um I will say I'm me. Well, that's good. That's good. It's good that you're hate me overweight.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:22

You're comfortable in your own skin, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:25

Before we wrap it up, I always like to end on something that's a little bit more a bit like because these episodes can be quite heavy, you know. We're talking about some really dark, dark things. So I like to end on something a bit more positive. So I always like to ask if, and I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit here, but whether you've got a funny joke or something that's happened to you in the last couple of weeks or a couple of months or whenever that's funny that's made you laugh, and it's you're just trying to write your script, isn't it? That's all I'm doing now. I'm getting ideas for the script, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:56

Um yeah, that's a hard one. Do you know what? For me, I don't know. Like jokes, I'm not a jokey tub, but there are ones that stick in my mind, and it's like, you know, what what do you call a lesbian dinosaur?

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:08

Yeah, do you do look a lot of people? I mean it's a classic. It is a classic.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:12

And they they just it it's silly things, like and like I say, for me, it's it's actions that make me laugh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:18

Well, funny enough, you you said something already that I thought, ah, that would have been you that would have been perfect because you said it. You said that you were the the D the DJ when you saw it cleaning his teeth outside of his car. That would have been perfect. I thought, ah, he's just he's ruined himself there because he's already said it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:32

But I'm I'm kind of like I'm one of them people that like it it's actions that are funny rather than yeah words. Do you know what I mean? It makes sense rather than hearing a worded joke, it's it's something that's happened. Yeah, and I don't know, probably with doing what I do, you you see it all the time. Do you know what I mean? Dance floors and people at bars and drunken people at festivals and this and the other. How you remember it? I think a lot of the time it's situation comedy and you can't reenact it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:57

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:59

Be happy with you, yourself, and what's most important to you. Yeah, don't worry about anybody else around you and strive to be anybody else or like anybody else. You don't need to have the latest car, you don't have to have the latest phone, you don't have the latest this, you know what I mean? Be content, enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:14

Well, things. Well, Jimmy Carr said it, didn't he? He said if if it's like all these things, all these things that we spend our lives building and collecting and spending our money on because they mean so much to us. Like we'll be this big, this big house, these you know, these this equipment, these new phones, a nice car. Well, actually, do you know in a hundred years, no one's even gonna know that you existed in that that and that which is horrible, it's quite morbid, but actually, and I probably got the quote wrong, but it's about things. It doesn't these things don't matter, but actually the memories do matter. The memories matter that you make and the people 100% memories make difference.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:51

I've said it to you, didn't I? With with things like with Harper, yeah, make their memories. Yeah, with with me, Lacey DJing that day, that's a memory that no one can take away.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:02

No one can take away. I could give her the most, you know, I'll buy the the latest track to the latest trainers. They're dirty within 24 hours.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:10

Yeah. Mate, honestly, with with I have it with Harper when when I you know I see she gets she's you know, the age she is, she gets spoilt. But you know what? I've sometimes given her something.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:22

I've got my my two that talk to me get spoiled. Like Lacey will message me, Dad, can you put£10 on the card? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:28

But that's what but but that's just sometimes it's like she'll get given all these things, it'll be Christmas or birthday, or just a day when there's been an at a brand deal and it's like, oh, you've got all these things. She'll be just as happy. I bought her a 25p lolly, and she's like, Oh my god, daddy, it's strawberry flavour, I love you so much. And it's like you can't but take that off.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:50

As an adult, we strive to buy them everything that they want, of course.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:53

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:54

And actually, you don't. I don't mean as a kid. You probably remember as a kid, Christmas. What did you do? Argos catalogue come out on the barrow, and you circled everything, like it it turned up, it turned up, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:06

Like it doesn't it doesn't change your life in any way, it makes you it makes okay, you've got things like but yeah, it's it's I don't know. This is this is a whole other podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:16

I remember when I remember with mine at Christmas, like the piles of Christmas presents with you know you can't get in the living room, you're unpacking them, you're throwing it all in the bin, it's all in a bag, and come the middle of March, you're unpacking that bag and finding stuff that's never been played with.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:32

Yeah, uh we were finding stuff that's never been even been opened at Christmas. We saved it for the following year. It's just that's how much but that's what that's what it's okay to spoil them, but I think it's of course it is. I think it's it's nice to have those memories, like you've said it only have those memories.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:46

Memories in the world, memories in the world. I do it, I do it now. Like Lily, she's in Devon, she phones me twice a day. Like, honestly, generally, she's like my little best mate. Yeah, she'll phone me twice a day, and I'm like, You're on your way home from work, because she does like more than afternoon shifts, and I'm like, You're on your way home from work. Yeah, blah blah blah blah blah blah while she's driving, and I'm like, I know, kid, thank you. I'm at work as well, but I don't get a break in the day. Like I love the calls, I love the calls, they're nothing, nothing conversations, but well, I I hope that I can that that happen.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:15

I I hope that me and Harper have that. I think so. One of the things I struggle with, just being completely honest, is and look, I am very grateful the amount of time I get with my little girl because I do get a lot more time with her than other people, so sometimes I do feel a bit selfish even having any sort of a a moan about my situation. But like ultimately, pain is pain, everyone struggles, but it's for me, it's her age. The age of like when things we split, she was three, she's only four now, she's about to survive. And my whole thing is like what her first memory. What if her fur I can't control it, but what if her first memory is not even with her dad? It's not with me, it's with some random person that's not even in her life anymore when she's older.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:59

I think I said that to you, Dan, didn't I? We're all like it. I I look back as a kid, obviously, because my parents separated, and I've got these memories and that memory. I remember doing things with my dad as much as I say he was a fucking asshole, and that's sorry to say, but he is. And I've got memories of doing things with him, which I remember of good times. Yeah, I've got memories of stuff with you know my mum. They're good times. I've had my parents are separated. I'd like to think my kids have got memories of me and their mum together from a young age, because I remember stuff when I was six. I don't remember really anything that my mum and dad together, but but this is what I mean.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:39

This is what I mean. Exactly what you're saying is exactly like my fear. Like you're you're saying, like, well, from the age of like six is my first memory, five, six. Well, Harvard's not even that age yet, so she's never gonna remember mummy and daddy together. She's only gonna ever remember some strangers in their lives.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:54

We also we also live in a world where kids are more open, more knowledgeable. I know with Lacey, like when me and the mum split up, she had a friend, one of her best friends, had parents that are split up of the same age, like, and they'd split up a long time before. Probably three years, four years before. I'd split up with Lacey, and I know that they they talked. So, you know, she'd said to Lacey, it's all good, it's fine. Do you know what I mean? Okay, it's two wells you're gonna have, but in the same context, like like you can't do anything about that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:33

No, I know, but I think that's my struggle is that that my struggle is uh like I know I know everything will be okay. Like I know I know this, but I also just think why should you have to follow suit with everyone being like, oh, like you're gonna have two bedrooms and you're gonna have two Christmases. Why is that a good thing? That's not a good thing. A good thing is having mummy and daddy together, but I can't help get I can't because I'm against that and I didn't want it. So now I'm like, No, why the fuck?

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:03

I I remember, right? This is something and I hate this. I frigging hate this. When I split up with their mum and I can't remember if it was it was just after, anyway. It was it was a couple of weeks after, and she she said to me, you know, we ain't ever getting back together again. We need to come tell the girls properly. Well, okay. So I went round and we sat there. Lace Lacey was nine, the twins were 13 and told them, and I remember the words that come out of Lacey's mouth, and it honestly it ripped my fucking heart out, and it does now because I think it's something I've blocked out and it's something that came back to me a couple of weeks ago. And I remember Lacey saying, Am I still gonna call you daddy? And that fucking killed me. Yeah, like I literally I had to walk out, I had to walk out, but because she was a little kid, she's not gonna understand.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:00

They don't understand, but that's the problem. They don't understand what they're what they're saying because they're trying to make sense of it. And I've had it, and I was thrown in a situation where Harper was in the bath, she'd asked a question, and it was like, Oh, right, can you come here and you need to come here and talk to Harper Daddy? And it was like, Oh, so mummy and daddy are gonna live in separate houses. And I'm like, I'm not fucking prepared for this.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:19

Like, what what yeah, yeah, but you'll never prepare for it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:22

But it's like I didn't know it was happening, and then and then another time and it broke mate. Funny enough, I think I was coming. This is what happened, this is what happened when I was coming to Goat Fest. This is what happened, and I fucking blocked it out. This is what happened genuinely, and and I cr I cried all the way driving to Goat Fest. I had to park around the corner before I met up with Al to sort myself out because bef just for us walking out the door, I had my backpack on, I was wearing my fucking my my coward thing, I was all like cool, festival vibey, look like a dick.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:54

I don't know if it was cool, but no, it wasn't, no, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:57

And Harper said to me, I was just about to leave, and Harper said, I fuck, I don't even know if I'd be able to say it. Uh she said, she said, uh daddy, she said, Are you still gonna be my daddy? Uh and it fucking mate, and then she said, Uh so am I gonna have two mummies now and two daddies? And I was just fucking mate, I was got because I had to exp this, and I was meant to be going on doing comedy that night, and I was that's why I was in my head.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:27

I totally get it, mate. I totally get it, I totally get it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:29

And I was like, no, baby, no, like you will only ever have one daddy. I'll always be your daddy, I'm never gonna go anywhere. But I had to compose myself. But I walked out the front door and I was fucking in bit. I was c walking up the road crying my eyes out, like a fucking grow man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:41

I did it, I did it, I did it for two years. I literally did it for two years after we split up, honestly. I I saw the girls like as regularly as I I could, twice for twice, three times a week, maybe. They stayed with me. Do you know what I mean? Like they stayed here in this place with me. Like I was d they were top of the tail and I was so frying a camphead in here and trying to make the best of both words. And then yeah, lockdown came around, which was the best thing for me because it managed to ground for me. But no, I did it, I did it. I'd get in the car sometimes and I just fucking cry. I am non-emotional, but very emotional. I don't show emotion to anybody and then I'll do it my own.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:22

But I was very much I knew today I was gonna show emotion, and I'm not f I'm not afraid to. I'll fuck it. I'm not afraid to, but I won't do it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:29

Yeah, I think I've I'm s I think I am sort of similar. I think the like when I when I posted that video online that you know everyone apparently has seen is it wasn't for that reason, it wasn't it that was for me, it was for my own, so I could look back on it. It wasn't for anyone else, but I just had to have this release, I had to get it out of it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:45

Other people's opinions mean jack shit because they're opinions, yeah, and they are opinions because you would have had I don't know, 500 messages telling you, mate, well done. 500 messages saying, and that's embarrassing, you're a dick. Well, do you know what? That's your opinion. That is your opinion, and I couldn't give a shit about your opinion because if you feel that was what you needed, yeah, then that is what you needed.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:06

Yeah, I feel like at the time it was the right thing and the wrong thing to do. I feel like I had to do something. But when I tell you, I I probably received I think I received over 15,000 messages in a week in a week. Like, can you imagine the weight? I was like, what is I didn't not for a good because I just wanted to cut up in a ball and hide.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:24

So but some of them are great and some of them are funny.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:26

It was about whether you get 202, what you're gonna get 50%, you're gonna get one person say well done, you're gonna get one person say man up. And it's but I had that on just such a scale that I've not read, of course I've not read. That's a silly amount of messages. I've never I've not read them all.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:41

Do you know what? Did you feel that you needed to do it and it was a release?

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:46

I feel like I had to do it. I feel like I had to do something, yeah. It was never the intention, but do you know what?

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:51

Anyone else's opinion means Jack diddly. Yeah, yeah. I had to do that. If you feel it was the right thing to do, and and and that's what you do, then that's what you do. Like that, and that's why I think again with men and our mental health, is we if we question everything. Should I really do that? Should I really do that? Is somebody someone gonna think I'm a bit of a weirdo for doing that? Do you know what?

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:12

No, who gives a shit? It's funny because I saw this, I've got this analogy, but I was with funny enough, I was with Al and Scully Dad in we were at a foot park, we were invited there for an event, which is was amazing. It was like lovely to get to go to these things, and I remember having this moment, there was this girl, she set her camera up and she was doing a TikTok dance, and we all sort of looked and we're like, Oh, she's doing a TikTok dance, and she was doing this dance, and everyone was around, and then we all just carried on with our lives, and we're like, it doesn't matter, no one gives a fuck, no one cares what you do. She's out there dancing in front of loads of people. We've looked and thought, oh, she's doing a dance, and then we're cracking on with whatever we're doing, and actually, I just thought, no one cares, no one cares, do they? Yeah, no one cares. I I had it when I had it on a massive scale. When I don't know if you remember the day the the day the queen died, and this for me was a was quite look, I'm not really into the royal family or anything. I'm not gonna get deep about the royal family, but the point was for me, the queen has been the only she's been the a consistent in through everything, through all politics, through all everything that goes on in life, the queen has always been the queen, right? And then I was in London the day after she died, and it was like this thing, and I was near Buckingham Palace, and I was at a train station, and just everyone was just cracking on with their day. And I was like, even the Queens died, but everyone just has to get on with it, and it's like, yeah, of course we do, of course we fucking do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:36

And that is the same with like I say, you did what you did, and you'll still have just clowns that want to make comments about it. Listen, it's what I did what I did uh out of sheer desperation, you know. I fucking I mean I'm as barrass as shit about what I did because I feel I'm a fucking knob because I've actually taken the chance of my children having a dad away, because that's me just trying to take the earlier route. But then I learned from it, and I learned actually, no, you need to be a bigger per person, better person, like be there for people, and that's why, like I say, when I do what I do, if I do a stage, if I do a festival, I want to do everything to the best of my body to produce for somebody else. But I guarantee you, I've done a festival gig and everyone's had danced their night away, and next week they can't remember did that what happened that week.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:24

But you know that you've done that for that 10 minutes, yeah. Yeah, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:28

Well, it's even me a release, and what I say is and I say to a lot of people, you can't change yesterday. You can't you can't control tomorrow, you can only influence it, you can only live for today. I've only got control of what's happening now, yeah. So don't worry about what happened last week, two years ago, three years ago. They're over, they're done, they're actions. Tomorrow you can only influence, so do it. Yeah, influence it, but influence it in a positive way because we we we need more positive viewing as well because we only need a negative work.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:02

We're we're only here once, so yeah, fair enough. We'll uh wait on that note, just because the camera's equipment's gonna end in a second, but yeah, mate, thank you for thank you for coming on the podcast, mate. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:16

Thank you. Like I say, to it's something I've wanted to do for ages because I ain't got the answer to everybody, but I've also got ways that I've dealt with it. And I hope somebody can listen to this, watch this, yeah, and and have to go, do you know what? Life isn't that bad. Life isn't that bad. We we can get over stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:32

100%. I couldn't agree.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:33

Or under your own control, right? But just be there for people. You don't necessarily have to hear them, they just have to know that they've got someone if they need to.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:43

It's definitely not therapy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:49

I mean, what can I say? Wayne was rock bottom, and he was in the worst possible situation trying to end his own life because he couldn't take losing his family, which is the biggest reason that men die by suicide, is losing their families, losing time with their children. And it's heartbreaking. The worst possible outcome was his child seeing him on the floor with paramedics around him trying to save his life. And in one respect, his life was saved, which is amazing because he's still here now to tell the tale. But on the flip side of that, you'd never ever wish for your child to see you in that or any kind of situation similar to that. You can't even understand the trauma that that must have done. I think Wayne clearly feels regret for that. Also proud that he's come out the other side and he's in a happy place. And I'm I'm pleased that he is here. Of course, I'm pleased that he's he's here. It just goes to show sometimes, yeah, you just you don't know when these things are gonna hit you, and we need to have the tools better prepared to deal with it. That's it for this episode of Definitely Not Therapy. And if you cried, laughed, smiled, or just felt slightly uncomfortable, then we've done our job. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review if you can, and perhaps share. Share this with someone who feels alone right now because that might make them just feel less alone. There's someone else going through the same thing as them. Whatever your story might be, whether it's co-parenting issues, divorce, breakups, heartbreak, anything, anything that goes unspoken, things that you feel like you can't talk about, come and talk to me about them. Let's help to spread some awareness. All you need to do is email me at only dance at gmail.com or DM me on any of my social media platforms, Dan Lawrence on Facebook, Dan Lawrence Comedy on Instagram, or definitely not Therapy Pod on Instagram. I'm Dan Lawrence and I'll see you next time.