From Silent Struggle to Strength: A Builder’s Journey Through Cancer, Mental Health, and a Thriving Business

A “bad back” that wasn’t. A silent diagnosis that changed everything.
 In this powerful episode, Martin opens up about surviving two cancer battles — testicular cancer in his early twenties and later lymphoma that reached his spine — and how each fight reshaped his understanding of strength, masculinity, and mental health.

He speaks honestly about the first surgery he told no one about, the loneliness that followed, and why the hardest part wasn’t treatment — it was breaking years of silence. Martin recalls the moment he trusted his gut, demanded scans, and likely saved his own life.

From there, the conversation expands into generational masculinity, mental health in the trades, co-parenting, and the evolution of support on building sites — where leaflets, trained foremen, and simple text lines are making it easier for men to reach out.

Martin shares how Andy’s Man Club became his turning point — the place where talking stopped feeling like weakness and became survival. With a partner who spots the signs early and asks the right questions, he now recognises his triggers and prevents spirals before they start.

Then came a new chapter: building a business rooted in purpose, hiring a team, and setting goals that align with his values. Together, we explore how to spot health changes early, manage pressure, navigate online hate, and protect your mind while pursuing success.

If this story moves you, tap follow, share it with a mate, and leave a review — your support helps more men find the courage to speak up. Sometimes, your message is the one that saves a life.

Episode Highlights

• First diagnosis in his twenties — and telling no one
• Loneliness, drinking, and the pressure to appear fine
• Back pain, missed warning signs, and a brutal spinal procedure
• Trusting instincts and pushing for life-saving scans
• Why men still struggle to open up — and how to start
• Mental health resources now appearing on building sites
• Andy’s Man Club as a turning point
• Handling online trolls and protecting your peace
• Partner support, asking twice, and recognising signals
• Turning pain into purpose — and building a thriving business

“Get yourself a quote. What have you got to lose, eh?”

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: 0:02
Welcome to another episode of Definitely Not Therapy. I'll be sitting down with a completely different stranger in every single episode to talk about how we completely fall apart at the seams, but how we sort of pick ourselves up and make the best of a bad situation. I'll be having conversations that are real and raw and unfiltered about everything life throws at you and how it affects your mental health. In this episode, I'll be talking to Martin, who had his life completely turned upside down when he was diagnosed with cancer in his twenties. Having bone marrow, plasma treatment, and a lot of hard work, and I suspect probably a little bit of luck. Martin pulled through and beat this horrific disease. But then for the last two years he's been suffering with a bad back, with pain, chronic pain, constant pain, and he didn't know what it was, and he kept going to the hospital, and they kept sending him away saying it's muscular. But eventually, they did a CT scan and they found a lump on Martin's lung, as well as problems with his chest and with his spine. Martin was flawed by this news. Of course he was. He'd just beaten the most horrific thing anyone can ever deal with many years ago, and now he's been hit with this. And as it turns out, the back pain was lymphoma that was missed through several doctors, several scans, it was missed. And that resulted in having to have 20% of his lung removed. Which is a very invasive, very intrusive surgery. I can't imagine that that was comfortable. And Martin is still struggling with that now. He's still still recovering from that now. But during this time, and listen, this all takes a toll. Martin was struggling with his mental health, but he was bottling it up, he was keeping it to himself because he thought he was dealing with it. But the truth is, on the inside, he was falling apart. Martin wants to really show and spread awareness on how this can affect your mind, how bottling things up, when you just need someone to talk to, you need to express your feelings. He wants to share what damage that can do, the pressures involved, the loneliness it causes because you feel like you're alone because you're dealing with it on your own with no support. But he used all of that and changed the purpose. He used it as motivation to build a business from scratch, and he is absolutely thriving today. And if I'm honest, it sounds like this business saved Martin's life. So I'm really excited to hear Martin's story today.
unknown: 2:42
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: 2:44
And is there anything that you don't want to talk about? Obviously, I've got your research sheet that you've sent through, but is there anything that you don't want to talk about?
SPEAKER_02: 2:51
No, mate, no, no. I'm I'm here to tell whatever whatever you want to talk about, mate. I'm happy to talk about whatever it is. So I feel it is it's just how it is. It's not all smooth sailing, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01: 3:02
It's not all smooth sailing though. Although social media would have you believe it is all smooth sailing. But depends what you look at.
SPEAKER_02: 3:08
That's very, very misleading, that is, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01: 3:11
I know. I'm part of the problem. Yeah, I'm post content on social media, but the problem is you know, you start posting stuff that's real, and then people don't want to know you anyway. So it's like you've got to post the fake stuff and the everything's okay to survive in that industry. It's m it's madness, really.
SPEAKER_02: 3:28
But I couldn't I couldn't do what you do, mate. Being a public eye like that is you open yourself up to uh to so many people that are complete dicks. Yeah, I've I've said it in a nicest way, but yeah, there's a people out there just no no nothing good in their life, so they just want to bring other people down as well.
SPEAKER_01: 3:45
Yeah. You've nailed it there because it is a lot of the time it is just people that are having their own bad time and they take it out on someone else. And they think they can do that to someone who's on social media because whether they think that we won't see it depends on who you who you message, you know, we won't see it, so it's just sort of venting. But because nine out of ten times the um the amount of people that I've messaged back from a hate comment, we've had a full-blown conversation, and it's ended up they've just said, Do you know what? Yeah, I was probably a bit harsh on that. I've just I've had a bad morning, or this happened. And sometimes we don't know what people are going through. They shouldn't do it in the first place.
SPEAKER_02: 4:24
But I think the the fact don't open yourself up to start with, just being just being kind, mate. It doesn't take take a lot, is it? It's just like the content, or if you don't like it, don't follow it. Simple as that.
SPEAKER_01: 4:36
Exactly. It's actually a really easy principle, isn't it? But just for some reason, nobody adheres to that.
SPEAKER_00: 4:41
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: 4:43
Well, welcome onto the podcast then. Martin, thank you for joining me in this episode. I'm I'm uh I'm looking forward to having a chat and going through some of the stuff that you've been through because looking at your research sheet, you've been you've really been through it, actually. You've had some real struggles.
SPEAKER_02: 4:58
Yes, mate. Yeah, uh hello, first of all. Nice to meet you. Um, yeah, yes, mate. Yeah, it's not been as I said before, smoke failing, but you just gotta get on with it, mate, ain't you? You've got no option, as I said.
SPEAKER_01: 5:11
That's it. But I think that's why things like this are important. And I've, you know, obviously I'm a little bit biased because it's my podcast and I'm doing it, but I do think spreading awareness is important. I think actually talking about topics which are surrounding you know mental health for for men, a lot of things do come back to mental health, whether it's you know, illness or a marriage breakdown or co-parenting or whatever it might be, but loads of a host of different things. But it comes back to mental health because it all affects us. So I think by spreading awareness, and that's all I hope really for these episodes is that someone will sit there and think, or they'll listen and they'll think, Okay, yeah, I can relate to what Martin's been through, or I can relate to what Dan's been through, and actually I feel less alone because of that.
SPEAKER_02: 5:56
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Spreading awareness, mate, is uh is key. I mean, I still even now I still think it's a bit frowned upon. I still think men find it very difficult to open up. I I I still struggle, but it's a it's a lot easier than what it was back when I it all started going wrong for me. It's it's it's a lot more open now, and and you feel a little bit not less of a a bit less of a man sometimes. I think that's quite easy to say. Uh it's hard to talk about how you feel and what's going on in your life, especially to a stranger. But yeah, these guys they're very, very good at what they do, uh and they they they make you put you at ease. Well, certainly the people that I spoke to put you at put me at ease and help guide me through these these difficult times. So I without them, I I I I don't know. I don't think I would be here though. Um and that's no lie.
SPEAKER_01: 6:46
Oh really?
SPEAKER_02: 6:47
Wow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was very, very dark, awkward, lonely time. But I don't get me wrong, there's a lot of good in my life as well. But that that period of of of time when I when I wasn't very well the first time, I um I didn't even talk to anyone, really. I didn't even tell my family I was going through it.
SPEAKER_01: 7:06
Let's go back to that then. So this is when you was in your twenties and you you were diagnosed with an illness.
SPEAKER_02: 7:12
Yes, yeah, yeah. Um started feeling some pain in my in my testicle. Um started to feel off, didn't feel myself. The the the energy levels were gone. So I just went to the doctor, I was quite blunt about it, just literally took my testicle out and said, This this is wrong, this this doesn't feel right. They they they had a feel straight away, semi-stroke to guys, uh, and I was diagnosed with testicular cancer, but 20, I think it was my 23, 24. But yeah, at that point, didn't want to open up to my family, didn't know how to open up to my family, to be fair. So I I went through that whole experience on without telling anybody.
SPEAKER_01: 7:50
So you didn't tell anybody, so you went through if you were diagnosed with cancer, you didn't tell anyone.
SPEAKER_02: 7:54
Not until not until I came out and I was picked up by uh someone and I went home. Then I was with my parents at the time, but I uh yeah, I actually explained then this is what happened and this is this is what's happened, and uh showed them obviously what like my wound. And they just yeah, why didn't you tell us? Why didn't you do this? I just I didn't know how to back then. I think I was kind of brought up with not nothing against my dad, but he was very much not the easiest person to talk to, shall we say? Lovely guy, but I couldn't open up to him, so I just felt very awkward going to him and explaining that I felt a bit weak, if anything, and I didn't want to let him down, that's how I felt. So yeah, I went went and down that hall, went through surgery, and then to decided to to explain obviously I've had it, I'm okay, I'm gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_01: 8:45
Well, hang on, let me just can I just stop you here. So can I just get this right? So you you was diagnosed you were diagnosed with cancer, you went and had an operation, and you told people after you'd had the operation and said I'm gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_02: 9:02
Yeah, yeah, I yeah, because I just didn't let anyone down, I didn't let my mum and dad down because uh I I saw what cancer done to to my nan, and I didn't want that, I didn't want that sort of outcome for my dad again. I see what he'd done to him. So I felt it was easier that way to just keep it to myself. Hopefully I was gonna make it for okay, and luckily that time I did, but probably not the wisest thing to do. But unless you're put in that situation, yeah, yeah, you don't know how to be off.
SPEAKER_01: 9:29
It's really difficult, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00: 9:31
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: 9:32
I know there's something niggling in the back of your mind right now, isn't there? Where you're trying to concentrate on this podcast, on this very, very good podcast, this very engaging podcast. But you're thinking, I wish we had a new bathroom, I wish we had a new kitchen, I wish we had a new games room. Well, this week's episode of Definitely Not Therapy is sponsored by Bell Trades. We've all been there, haven't we? We've sat there and we thought, right, next job, we'll get the kitchen done. Next job, we'll get the bathroom done. And we just never get round to it. Why do we do that? We just we never get round to it. Do it, now is the time. Contact Bell Trades and they can help. It might not cost as much as you think. Bell Trades have a very simple philosophy to turn your house into a home that you're proud of. Not where you can think, I wish we had a new bathroom, I wish we had a new kitchen, I wish we had a new games room or man cave, wish our bedroom was nice. Bell Trades don't need to start from scratch. You don't have to have an entire new room. You might be thinking, I just wish this room was finished. They can look at the room and they can see the potential and they can work with you on it. Bell Trades are specialists in bathrooms, kitchens, and entire renovations. You will not be disappointed. And if you think, oh Dan, I really, really, really want it done. I really want to get that bathroom finished, or I really want to get a new kitchen, but I just haven't got the money. Life's hard at the moment, life's expensive at the moment. But there are some really, really reasonable finance options available. Go check their website, it's www.belltrades.co.uk. Or why don't you check them out on Instagram? It's at Bell underscore underscore trades. It's a double underscore. On their Instagram page, they've got some great before and after shots. So you can see the work they do, you can see the quality. And the beauty is they cover the entire South East London as well as Kent. So if you're one of them people, you're sat there, you're in Southeast London, you're in Kent, you're thinking, oh my bathroom. I don't like going in there because it stresses me out. www.beltrades.co.uk. Bell Trades have helped me bring my vision to life. My vision of this podcast, they've helped me by sponsoring. Let them help bring your vision to life in your home. Because home isn't just where you live, it's how you live. Get yourself a quote. What have you got to lose, eh? Anyway, let's get back to the podcast, shall we?
SPEAKER_00: 12:04
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: 12:06
You felt weak, so but I think this is a generational thing, isn't it? Because I'd say the same, my dad's very old school, my granddad's very old school. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
SPEAKER_02: 12:15
I wouldn't, I still can't now, even to this day. I couldn't go and have a hard time with my dad's. It just it just wouldn't feel right. It wouldn't make him comfortable, it would make me feel uncomfortable. Whereas me with my daughter, I I want to come, I want us everything from her, I want to hit her through every emotion that she feels.
SPEAKER_01: 12:32
But this is where we're we're in a really difficult transitional period because we're we're we're now we can't be men like men used to be, which is get on with it, man up, the the whole man up thing. We can't be like that anymore. We're we we're now half responsible for all of the same things that we've never been responsible before. So you know, and this isn't to be sexist or misogynist or anyway, but like the household chores and things. It used to be the man goes out to work, the woman looks after the house. Whereas now it's not. The women go out to work, men go out to work, the women look after the house, the men look after the house. So we're expected to do that and come down onto that level, but also when we're not allowed to talk about our feelings still for a lot of people, it's it's it's a very tight tight rope, very thin road we walk on in it. It's it's a balancement. It's a balance. You've also got to parent your children differently to how we were parented and make sure they're learning the right way to do it.
SPEAKER_02: 13:28
You could I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't bring Lila up the way that my dad but mum and dad pulled me out. I would it just doesn't make sense, not in this day and age, you couldn't do it. It just it's impossible. You've got you've got to you've got to cover every aspect of being a parent, just yeah. You don't want to be too soft, you don't want to be too hard, you certainly can't eat your kids anymore. Not that I ever would have come down there. But when I was a little sob grown up, I clicked around the ear and I stopped it.
SPEAKER_01: 13:53
I stopped straight away. That's what it was. We were ruled a little bit by fear, and I don't think there's no I mean, I again I wouldn't, and things are different now, and obviously I would I'd never I'd never do that. And I think if you ask any dad now, we wouldn't, we just wouldn't do that. It's it's we know now that that's not the right thing to do. But also, what is the right thing to do? Because if I say to Harper, right, you're gonna be in big trouble if you do that, she's thinking, Oh, what does that even mean? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do about it? Yeah, yeah, there's there's no there's nothing to back up the fret, is that you're gonna do nothing. You can't do nothing, and they know that time I really mean it. This is it, and when you've got a four-year-old or a five-year-old that knows that, you're in trouble, you're in trouble.
SPEAKER_02: 14:32
Of course, yeah. Very quickly, yeah. I know when to push the boundaries.
SPEAKER_01: 14:38
They keep you on your toes, definitely, definitely. So, okay, so so okay, so you were like 22, 23, you'd had this the operation, you was you'd sort of come out the other side, you were doing okay, you was given the clear. But how what kind of mental strain did that put on you? Being that you couldn't you didn't have a support network to deal with that, and you just had to deal with it on your own.
SPEAKER_02: 15:01
Very, very difficult, very, very lonely time. Obviously, keeping it from friends and family was was my decision, but with that, I had no one to talk to. I was literally talking to myself at night saying, You're gonna be alright, mate, you've got this. And there was no outlet as such, you know. It was just a build-up of horrible emotions and and worry and and stress and not wanting to let people down. I just wanted to get through it, so I didn't have to give my dad the bad news. I just that was all I was really thinking. Yeah, just get through it, give them the good news. Then everything's gonna be okay. It was for a little while. We'll get onto that, I'm sure, after this.
SPEAKER_01: 15:41
So what so then so okay, so you're in your 20s, you then you've you've you've gone through that, and you're sort of okay, you've gone through that kind of mental. I mean, even at that age though, and back back then, um you know, people didn't talk about it, so it wasn't necessarily even that you might have even known that actually this was that it would cause you any mental health.
SPEAKER_02: 16:02
Yeah, it it it's certainly it's certainly starting my mental health struggles in my early 20s. I think going out every weekend in your early 20s doesn't help. I think that the drink and the booze, and that's that coincide with stuff that's on your mind, it's a snowball effect, and it can it can sort of consume your life very quickly, and it did. And I found myself in a very, very, very dark place for for quite a period of time, to be fair.
SPEAKER_01: 16:28
So, was that after was that after you'd had the operation? Was this like a celebration of like I've still got my life, I'm just gonna go and enjoy it and and have blowout after blowout?
SPEAKER_02: 16:36
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That just I didn't know when to start for that. That was the problem because as soon as I did start, but I would start bringing the feelings and the and the and uh how I felt going through it back, and the only time to get through that's all my way to get through it was just go out and and go on a two, three-way bender, which was not good. Wasn't wasn't good, but it's the only way I knew how to deal with it.
SPEAKER_01: 16:56
Yeah. Well, how do you this is the problem, like how do you deal with that? No one knows really, because every single person is different, and everyone can just receive that.
SPEAKER_02: 17:10
At that time I I didn't, and obviously when it came back, that was that was uh yeah, that was even that was even worse. That one.
SPEAKER_01: 17:19
So this is uh so you're so you we're we're jumping to say from the age of like early 20s, so then what happened from from there?
SPEAKER_02: 17:26
I was I was I did okay for about three four or five years, and I know I started getting some sort of aches and pains in my back, so I thought it was a normal me getting older, 28, I wish I could be 28 again. But yeah, I started feeling pains in my back, I started struggling with work because obviously I won't build up picking up materials, I started getting pains in my back. So I thought I went to the doctors, they sent me off some some scans, some tests, and it turned that up, the cancer would turn a bit, it was into my back, it was into actual my spine. So it I was having to have the the treatment that I got was bone marrow plasma injected into my spine, which was basically they would they would take bone marrow out of my back, so they were putting uh a needle in, take a bone marrow out of my back, sort of regenerate it in the labs, and then reinjected back into my back to to fight the cancer cells. And that when I say that is painful, still to this day the most painful thing it is unbelievably painful. I don't wish that on anybody because you're getting injected once, and then when they go back through for the vibe, it's it's unreal pain, and uh that was that was very, very dark as well.
SPEAKER_01: 18:35
But well, so but you moved on a little bit from here.
SPEAKER_02: 18:37
So uh did you did you suspect at all if you started having like a bad back and you'd had cancer, but did you it's quite it started to I started to feel like I did when I had to test it glad the the the the lack of uh motivation, the lack of energy, or tired always aching. I thought oh and I don't I got feeling I just had a feeling something was wrong, so that's why I went to the doctors, they did some tests, they didn't they didn't they didn't diagnose it straight away, but as soon as they sent me up for some scans up to back up to grounds, they I was I was seeing an oncology consultant within like five six weeks, so off we went again, as I said. But this that one was more painful than than emotional. But the the pain I I can't explain to you how bad that was. I wouldn't wish to have anybody that that's going through that again.
SPEAKER_01: 19:24
And being that you're you know a builder type guy, builders are known for being you know quite quite rugged, quite manly, you can deal with a lot of pain, you sort of put your body through it with you know lifting stuff and throwing stuff around all day.
SPEAKER_02: 19:36
So for for you to say that it was painful, like mate, just a full but now after I've seen my a lot of goosebumps, it just takes me straight back to just landing on that on that landing on that bed and when they when they jab you oh my god, it's just I don't like needles, I don't like needles at the best of times. People always say that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: 19:58
Like you always say you don't like needles, but you've got tattoos all over your body, but exactly it's a different it's a different type of pain though, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02: 20:04
Yeah, 100%. It's that pain I can live with, mate, 100%, but no, I would I wouldn't I wouldn't like to go through it again. Anyway, the outcome is still good. My uh my cancer cells would come down, my my my uh white blood cells that were through the roof come down. And I was given it all clear again. Lucky enough without having to go through like any chemo or radiotherapy, it was all down to them injections. So as painful as they were, they've done the trick.
SPEAKER_01: 20:28
They saved your life, yeah. And and I'd argue, I mean, you're you're there's got to be an element of I I don't want to say like an element of luck. There must be an element of luck, the fact that you've had cancer twice and cleared it twice. Like not many people can say that.
SPEAKER_02: 20:42
Yeah, yeah, it's it's not a record that I'm uh I I want to boast about, but yeah, 100% it's yeah, but but but yeah, I mean I agree, I think it's yeah, it's definitely not something something that you'd want to boast about.
SPEAKER_01: 20:54
But what was it that's that you think was it just luck, or was it that as soon as you felt something that might be wrong, you was like, no, I'm gonna get down to the doctor, you was you was on it straight away.
SPEAKER_02: 21:04
Yeah, yeah, I think I think that uh having them similar feelings that and and symptoms I had before was definitely a bit of a hang on, something something's not quite right. This this is reminding me of when I was ill before. So I think I've I'd definitely catch me early is the key. If you're well I'm sure I'm sure everyone knows this, but if you're not feeling right, especially whether it's your testicles, whether it's your whether it's when you're in the boob, but what if you're not feeling right, get yourself checked out because it without a doubt it saved my life.
SPEAKER_01: 21:36
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 21:37
Twice.
SPEAKER_01: 21:38
That's incredible. Did you have a support network the second time around? Did you go did you tell people?
SPEAKER_02: 21:43
The second time it was a little bit. I had I had a I had a partner at the time who helped me through it, and I was a I opened up to a few people. I had to tell some people that I was working with obviously while I was having time off, and I kept come when I come back the next day. I was obviously not as mobile as I should be. But yeah, again, I still didn't open up to too many people. I just feel like I was like I'd be well I don't know if it's weak, I don't know if that's the right word. I didn't want to be different to anybody else, basically. Do you know what I didn't want to be treated differently or people to look at me in a different way? I just wanted to be one of the lads still on site because I was still in my early 20s, I didn't have my own business. I was still just one of the guys on site, I didn't want that to change.
SPEAKER_01: 22:23
It would be looked at as a as a form of weakness in some respect. You would probably look at it as a form of weakness, but actually, if you did open up and speak to it to you mate on the building site, you'd probably have that camaraderie where they would have then taken the Mickey out of you for whatever reason because that's what they did.
SPEAKER_02: 22:39
Yeah, I'll go through that time. That's when I started looking at the sort of men's mental health out there at the time, which was well, I'm I'm 38 now, so we're looking nearly 10 years ago. It it was in its infant stages, and I mean there was you'd have to do a lot of research to get some help, do you know what I mean? Whereas you could you can put on your laptop within two clicks, you got some on on the end of the phone. But then it was more you had to send your emails, then you have to put why you're feeling like this, and it was a long process, so which I don't think some people that were struggling that point at that point would have got quite that far. I think he would they would have made a decision not not to be around anymore. So I'm I'm very I'm very grateful that mental health is getting better and better and more and more important.
SPEAKER_01: 23:24
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 23:24
Especially, especially on the building site as well. There's there's a lot lot of help on building sites now.
SPEAKER_01: 23:29
Oh, there is okay, that's loads, loads, loads, loads. What sort of thing are you talking about then? What do they have now?
SPEAKER_02: 23:36
They've got they've got okay, they've got brochures out now, they've got leaflets out, they've got like just dedicated phone lines, texts. So if you just you don't want to talk to one, you can just text someone and you'll just get have a text conversation. Some people find it easier to have a text conversation rather than be on the phone. So there is people out there that so most foremans have been trained into manage mental health and to pick up signs, so it's it's becoming more and more uh awareness. Yeah, people get more becoming more and more and pick up the signs. So I can now see when someone's struggling, I can kind of see it, which is weird, but it's the only because I've I've gone through it myself. So you kind of see little hints where someone's someone's struggling, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: 24:16
Yeah, especially if you've been through it as well, you're more in you're more inclined to to kind of reach out to someone because if you've you might spot the signs, but you might not have been through it, you might just think give them the benefit of the doubt, they're probably fine. But actually, yeah, if you've been through it yourself, it's it's probably it uh it helps to spot those signs, but also gives you that confidence to say, Yeah, I'm gonna go and I'm just gonna go and check. And I and I have a lot of people now that check, and when and I'll get two messages, I'll always get a message which is how how are you how are you doing? Are you okay? And I'll say, Yeah, I'm fine, and then I'll get another one and I'll and it will say, No, but are you really okay? Are you giving me the the just the the typical man okay, or are you really okay? And it's always a follow-up. And that's that's from people that have been through it that know that they would do the exact same thing, which is yeah, you just say I'm fine. I'm yeah, yeah, of course I'm fine. So I think that's really incredible that building sites are doing that, and I'm sure I'm sure there's lots of other you know companies and yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
SPEAKER_02: 25:15
I mean, yeah, yeah, I if there's one good thing to come out of this sort of stuff, it it is that means mental health because uh it's we're the still we're supposed to be the breadwinners, supposed to be the strong strong types we can't really show witness, even now. But just to know that there is help out there and uh this help saved me, saved me, and saved my friends. I've been I I know friends that have been saved and just started with conversations, and now they're turning their life around just just by getting that initial help when they needed it the most, yeah, and they're turning their life around, not doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing, I mean moving on with their life, which is ultimately what anyone wants, not to be suffering, not to be in pain.
SPEAKER_01: 25:57
Well, it's taking that, it's taking a a a a kind of a temporary problem and sticking a permanent solution on it, which is which is what it is, and and unfortunately a lot of men they do die by suicide because of that. And and and listen, all we can do is spread awareness and and hope that that we can help men to feel less alone. That that was a big part for me, was you feel alone, you sort of force yourself, you you did it, you fit you put you you chose to put yourself in a situation where you didn't discuss your your cancer diagnosis with anyone, but that made you feel uh even more like it's a double whammy, isn't it? Because you've made that decision and you're dealing with this, and because you've made that decision, you're then feeling really lonely, and you just feel that emptiness and loneliness. And it's like we just do that as men, we do do that as men. So, yeah, to be able to talk to people like you and get you know to listen to your story and to be able to hopefully reach people that are sat there thinking, you know, it may not be that they've been through a cancer diagnosis, it might not be as big as big as or as scary as that. It doesn't need to be that big or or that scary. Sometimes it's the littlest thing that can push someone over the edge, but you can still feel loneliness is loneliness, pain is pain, it doesn't everyone's journey is their journey. So I think it's yeah, I think it's it's good to to to definitely help spread awareness, and it's it's it's it's paramount that people like you come on and talk about it because anytime anytime in any way mate, I'll be more than happy to to do this.
SPEAKER_02: 27:29
So but yeah, it it is so what help did you get though?
SPEAKER_01: 27:33
So when you said that you've had help, you've had help and you you got help and you've had friends that have had help, what what did that look like? How did you do that?
SPEAKER_02: 27:39
It was I'm sure I'm sure you'll know it. It's Andy Man and his man club. They uh they uh they saved me, mate. There you go. I've got mine in I've got mine in the dressing room, mate. I've got them, I've got it all, I've got leaflets everywhere. I think I've got them down here. Yeah. So it's it seems the sort of stuff that I'm putting that I'm going around on building sites as well, just like leaflets like that. So there's little cards.
SPEAKER_01: 28:11
They do they do incredible work, and I and this is something I have spoken about. This I've I've had actually uh three or four people on the podcast who um go to Andy's Mann Club. I've had one or two who have been for who are facilitators for Andy's Mann Club, and what they do is just incredible. Uh so and this is something I I would ask this and I would tell this story and talk about this to anyone that does go, because it's interesting to hear not well, it's interesting to hear your side of it, but yeah, also I want it to be known that it's not that scary. You just you basically need to be brave for 10 minutes because for me, the biggest thing I would get the reason I know about Andy's Man Club is because my DMs would be if you look through my comments from a year ago, or even over the last you'll find someone in most videos that have said, just contact Andy's Man Club, go and see Andy's Man Club, go go look online. And to be fair, I did look online, and this was a long time ago, and they didn't have one local to me. Yeah, but even with that being said, it's like we've touched on it, it's scary. Talking is scary, opening up is scary.
SPEAKER_02: 29:15
It's the hardest, hardest bit of going going through all I've been through. Opening up is the hardest part, and I still struggle now to open up to to just let someone in and to show that vulnerability. It's still not it's not found upon anymore because there's hell out there, but you still, as me as a person, I still find it hard to open up.
SPEAKER_01: 29:33
If it shouldn't if it's ingrained in you, it's ingrained in you. Like we can't help that is who we are, like by nature. It's it's it's but we're trying to buck the trend within ourselves, which is really difficult. But that's the reason I didn't go because I thought, you know what, I can't even really open up. I can sit and talk to a camera where I know there's no one around, I can talk to a camera, I can post that. I don't care how many millions or or whether two people see it, because that's just me in a camera, and I can be vulnerable, I can be honest. But sit Sitting in a room full of other men, I was like, I just wasn't brave enough to do it. And I w I and listen, I really wish I was. I really wish I was because some of the stories I've heard, I think I would have definitely come out the other side a lot sooner. Of course. But it's just taking that 10 minutes of being brave, just be brave, go through that door, and actually you immediately get this support network of other men who can relate.
SPEAKER_02: 30:21
Yeah, yeah. Not only not only the people there that uh that are running the sessions, the people around you, you feel you feel part of the part of the family, you're all sort of in the same boat, and that's why you you shouldn't feel bad or awkward to opening that up. But I get it, mate, I get it. Opening up to anybody I find still very difficult.
SPEAKER_01: 30:40
Yeah. I've even found these podcasts difficult because this this for me, you know, I've got to come on here and you know, I expect you to be vulnerable and talk a little bit about your feelings, but I can't expect you to do that, and then just for me to be a closed off, I've got to be, you know, I've got to get myself in that mind frame of okay, I'm gonna have to waken up as well, and I'm gonna have to talk about some stuff.
SPEAKER_02: 30:59
And the only difference between me and you, mate, is you've done it all publicly. Well, I've I've done it behind the scenes, you've done it in front of millions of people. So, as I said before, this I couldn't do what you what you do, and fair play to you, mate. You've completely changed you all the funny videos, great, but I've I certainly relate a lot more to the the stuff that's serious. I can certainly get onto your level like that, sounds like quicker than than the funny videos. As funny as they were, and they were funny, the the stuff when you're you're vulnerable related to me a lot, a lot, lots of me and a lot more deeply.
SPEAKER_01: 31:31
Yeah, I get that, I I get that a lot. I get told that a lot, which is good. See, the thing for me is I love making the funny stuff because it's because I because I've always laughed at myself, I've always been the first one that I'd rather make the joke about myself than letting someone else do it. And I just I like that feeling of making someone laugh. If someone's in a bad place and I'm the one that's made them laugh, and I get a message saying, You've really cheered me up today, and that's that's what happened, that's what gave me a bit of a passion for it. I've always made content, I've always loved making content, and then when lockdown hit, we were making these silly little videos for me. It was a massive escape. Ten minutes of an escape every single day. While I genuinely thought my world was quite, I didn't know what was going on. We had pregnant, bought a new big house.
SPEAKER_02: 32:17
Lockdown was crazy.
SPEAKER_01: 32:18
Lockdown was crazy, but I was spending 10 minutes of the day just being an idiot, and I was like, This is brilliant, like this is absolute brilliant, and I'll get so many messages saying I'm trapped in my flat, I'm not allowed out, haven't got a garden, but sitting watching you is cheering me up, and that is like okay, so that is what I do it for. But the problem is then when you do switch and it's like okay, I can't just make the funny stuff because confidence went, my confidence went. I don't mind I've been open about that.
SPEAKER_02: 32:46
My confidence is still got everyone makes it, it would throw any anyone out what what what you think went for a bit publicly. There's it would it would change the way you think and and feel about making content good or bad, or funny or or sad. Do you know what I mean? And you keep doubting yourself, things things you don't you don't feel as good about yourself, dear.
SPEAKER_01: 33:10
That's it, and I was in a situation where I had to I was doubt I was doubting myself and I was like but I also didn't want to give up. I felt like I'd lost so much, and I was like, I just will not lose another thing. I will not lose another thing and I will fight for this social media career because that was my it was my baby, it was my dream. And and I I knew the benefits, I knew that it gives me time with my little girl, and that was for me the most important thing. So it's uh the only thing I can hope from the fact that I do post stuff and I am in a much better place now, and I'll still sometimes post something that's a little bit emotional and a little bit vulnerable, but not necessarily for my own benefit, but it will be because I still want other people to see it is still okay to like even if someone is doing better, it's still okay to talk about the bad stuff. And and I'll still get comments even now, even when I've shown what I've been through, I'll still get comments which are people saying, Oh, why are you crying on the internet? Why you just man up and it's just it mortifies. I just think it's but the reason the it's mate, honestly, it's the it's the worst thing. And some of these people, and I'm like, I remember having a big I made a big deal, I made a big deal of him because well, I've got a big internet following, he hasn't, so I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna fucking go in, I'm going in on you now. And it's this guy and his and his profile picture was six pack and pecs, and I'm a chubby guy, and I don't care, I'm just quite happy. Like, I'm going to the gym, but it's for my mental health. Um but whatever. But he was like coming after me constant, constant. I was like, nah, fuck, I'm gonna and I was like, I just made this massive point about you might have a six-pack and you might go to the gym and you might be able to go online and put your comments, but I'm braver than you, I'm braver than you, because I'm standing here being a man, being emotional, telling my story, and you're hiding behind a keyboard, and I got I didn't get another message from him to be fair, but no, I'm gonna mate stuck it straight on and do it like it. That's it. It's like, but I I just hope that if someone is sat there and they're thinking it's it and it is listen, it is hard to open up, and I get that, I get it's really hard to talk, especially if you're a man. But if I can put myself out there and millions of people have seen that and seen how vulnerable I was, well, that's to millions of people. All you've got to do is talk to one person, just talk to one person, just just go or or you know, talk to a friend, talk, talk to someone, and that's the first step. If you can then get the courage to go to an Andes Man Club as an example, well, that's probably changed your life going to an Andes Man Club. Probably saved your life.
SPEAKER_02: 35:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%, mate. 100%. That's why I I've got I've got this this sort of uh stuff everywhere. I've got I've got so many of the bands because I I love them. I I just I can't speak high enough of them because they did do they've saved me from well uh don't want to think about the alternative, but I think we all know what we're talking about. Yeah, um so if I can just weigh the win, it's all there be off, they save my life. It's it's a no-brainer, you know what I mean? And it only takes, as you said, that one person, even if it's just one person, what's going through me you're talking about tonight, if it's just one person we safe. Brilliant.
SPEAKER_01: 36:24
Well, it's been worth it. It's been worth it 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's still one life. I think that's the only way that we're gonna we're gonna bring the the the suicide rate down. Yeah, I think it's we're and it's a frightening rate, mate. It's it's isn't it 12 a day? It's 12 a day. In England, just in England.
SPEAKER_02: 36:43
Just just for just for feeling bad, just for because it's too much. That's that's 12 families destroyed, mate. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: 36:50
That's every single day. Every single day. It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 36:58
Even as well as Dapper off, mate. So I mean, that's that's that's grunge. Float to float. I was one of the big one of the first journals, so I remember the numbers were like 237, and you I'd just go back and it just go thousand, ten thousand, thirty thousand, and now it's it's it's massive. Yeah. And Fed played to him as well. I mean, what different what Harry's changed his life as well. I do you know what?
SPEAKER_01: 37:19
I reached out to Dapper. I've known I've I've Dapper was one of the original ones that got me into without realising, but got me into social media. So back in the old Vine days, it was Dapper Laughs. That's it, seven seconds. Dapper laughters, Stuggy and Aaron Craskell were the three main ones I would watch, and I'd just think, do you know what? If they these guys can do it, I can do it. I've got something about me, I've got a like a funniness about me, I can do this. And they sort of give me the confidence to do it. But and I'm friends with Aaron now, as it turns out. I'm friends with Stuggy now, and and I've met I've met Dan O'Reilly and I met him.
SPEAKER_02: 37:51
I'll see that you went to one of these events, didn't you, a couple of weeks ago?
SPEAKER_01: 37:54
So I went to his event, which was Men and Their Emotions. It was the launch of it was the launch the proper launch of the charity, and I think he's got like 50 odd thousand men in there now, which is an incredible amount, and it's for such a great cause. But yeah, I met Dan recently, and even it it was it's quite interesting because my friend was with me at the time, and when you do social media and you meet certain people and you're like, Oh yeah, I'm friends with this person or I know this person. A lot of people that aren't in those circles are like, Yeah, whatever, like whatever. But we was just about to do my photo shoot on the red carpet, so he'd done his photo shoot, my friend had done his photo shoot on the red carpet, he'd come off. I was about to go on, and Dan had come down. Bear in mind it's Dan's night, Dan O'Reilly, it was his night, so everything stops for Dan. So I didn't get to go on the red carpet. I was like, Oh, can you just hold off? Dan's gonna come down. But Dan stopped as soon as he saw me. He was like, Ah, he stopped everything, he stopped everything, came over, shook my hand, gave me a hug, and was like, How are you? How's it going? Thanks for coming, but and just stopped everything, and it was like he didn't have to do that, he could have just like just given me a nod and carried on, and I'd have been fully understanded because it was his night, he had a big show to prepare for. But he stopped everything, he took he took two, three minutes out of his night to just stop and have a little chat. And my mate who was with me was like that was cool, man. Bearing in mind, he was meant to be taking photos of me all night and had the camera. I was like, Oh, can you just take some photos of me on the carpet and film it? And then Dan and I was I said, Did you get any photos? He went, No, because I was just watching in awe at the fact that he'd just come over and said uh said hello. But I mean, I reached out to Dan because he I've been a fan, like a I know I make content, but I'm a fan of these guys, like they that I look up to them massively. And I reached out to Dan because I was there when he went through like the most horrific times, and he was suicidal. He was loot, he lost his dad, he he lost he lost everything, he lost his his wife. And I reached out to him.
SPEAKER_02: 39:52
I know the stuff he's been through. He's written he's very dark again. Do you know what I mean? It's not it's darkened but in different different aspects. Do you know what I mean? People doesn't always have to be the big C, it can be stuff that he went through losing his dad. Obviously, that would that was the topic for him. I think that's when it started to unwind for him. But that's with the gone off the rails, to me.
SPEAKER_01: 40:12
That's it, and that's the the pressure, and he went with it and it was his addiction. That's that's that's the thing for him. It was his addiction, and he did go off the rails, and it's like I just and and but he took the time out to voice note me back and was like, Yeah, okay, this is what I would do if I were you. Because I was like, look, I've you he my whole thing was him, he reinvented himself. I know he'd come out and he'd done the turtleneck and he's done the TV thing, and but he can still look back at that now and make light of that. But he got his wife back, he's got the dream car, he's had the dream car, he's had the dream home, he's got his kids, he's got another kid on the way. It's like, how did you do that? Because I can't physically I know he had the support from his wife event eventually. It's not that she didn't support him, but he was just a he had an addiction, and that was what drove him to the ground. But it's like, how how did you do how did you do that? How did you reinvent yourself? And and he gave me some really good advice, which you know I've probably not taken all of it because I've I've still I've still been dealing with my own struggles, but but he took the time out, and I think that's that says a lot about him as a person.
SPEAKER_02: 41:12
Yeah. No, he's it is I say I'm not I've not met him, I'm and I'm unlikely to, although I'm gonna go see him in Folkestone in November. He's he's new comedy tour, so might bump into him. I'll say hello anyway, but yeah, he just comes across as such a nice guy, a genuine guy, more than more than anything. Not he doesn't come across fake at all. He just seems to what you see is what you get.
SPEAKER_01: 41:34
Yeah, exactly. That is it. He's just a very he's a very like down to earth guy. And I think he's also got a bit about him that is like which I think you have to, you have to just not care really what people think, because everyone gets negativity excuse me, negativity.
SPEAKER_02: 41:51
There's always negative people out there before I said this before we kicked off this morning this evening. It's people out there have just got nothing better to do in their life, and it's just because they're going through bits, they decide to bring on people down publicly.
SPEAKER_01: 42:02
Yeah, yeah, this is it. Well, funny enough, I've just had a Nick Smith. I don't know if you follow the Smithy family. So Nick uh Nick and Jack have been down today filming a podcast, so they was on just before you, and it was just I mean it was chaos, obviously. It was Nick Smith, but it normally does in LRMs. Yeah, it was chaos. But we went into the same thing, it's like they get so much hate, but you just have to a little bit think, do you know what? I'm just it the problem is everyone's like, go and get a real job, go and get a real job, go and get a real job. But actually, a real job is earning money and providing. Doesn't matter what you do, if you're earning money for it and you're you're providing, then that then that's it.
SPEAKER_02: 42:37
And you have to carry on doing what you what what you want, mate.
SPEAKER_01: 42:40
Don't listen to them, don't don't let them get in into your head, they're not worth it. No, easier said than done sometimes, though. But but you've come out the other side, you've obviously looked, you've been through some real hardships and you you've you've struggled with your mental health, you've been to Andy's Man Club, which is just incredible. They've you know saved your life, you've turned your life around. So so how are you now? How do you cope with mental health on a daily basis now?
SPEAKER_02: 43:03
And I talk, I I I talk uh not always to to professionals or Andy Man Club, but I talk to my partner that downstairs who's got a butted leg at the moment, so not great timing. But if I'm feeling down, she'll pick up on it straight away.
SPEAKER_00: 43:19
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 43:19
She's you know on it, do you know what I mean? And she'll pick up when I'm struggling. Or if the oxygen is a bit too much on top, or I'm struggling with stuff, she's on it, and she'd just say, Talk to me, what's what's wrong? How can I help? How can we get you through it? And it's just little just getting it early, dealing with it, just just processing it in your head, and then there's an outcome. There's always a way around something, it's just figuring it out.
SPEAKER_01: 43:40
Yeah, it's nice that you've got that support as well. And and someone that spots the signs that where you need the support as well.
SPEAKER_02: 43:47
Yeah, she she knows straight away. She'll she'll know within ten seconds of me looking through the door. If some if I've had a good day, if I've got something to my mind, if if I'm not if I'm not doing too well, she'll know. So that's that's built up over time, but yeah, brilliant, brilliant girl. I will get her up here, but she uh she can't get upstairs. So what happened to her leg then? She she came off the hills. Oh no. Um dismounted yellows, yeah, and broke her knee into uh into her tibia. Or so her knee into literally broke into her bone and and uh she's rolled herself up for quite a full quite a few months, which is cool.
SPEAKER_01: 44:25
That is not yeah, that's not good. I don't I've had a tib I've had a tibia is it a fibia, tibia and fib basically my leg was broken.
SPEAKER_02: 44:32
It's the kneecap into tibia. She didn't break both of them.
SPEAKER_01: 44:34
Oh, she didn't break both of them, that's lucky, yeah. I had a tibia fibia break. But yeah, I've done I've done a tibia fibia myself, mate. That's that's very girls. It's not it's not fun. It's not fun, is it?
SPEAKER_02: 44:45
I was off for about a year, believe it or not.
SPEAKER_01: 44:47
Oh well, at least you're in a good situation in terms of you've had that, which means you can really sympathise with her and give her all the support she needs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 44:56
It's it's again that's going to be a struggle. I mean it's it's not it's not a pleasant pleasant at all.
SPEAKER_01: 45:08
I did, I was 18 when it happened to me. I was 18 and I had to I was just stuck downstairs and I couldn't get her out to have a wheelchair, and I remember so I I this is probably this was this is probably actually quite traumatic for me, but I haven't realised it was traumatic. If that like going through what I went through being 18, I I was run over, I I died in the ambulance. I was in a real I was in a bad I was in a real bad way. But I made it, I'm still here, but I never because I was so young, I never really thought, Oh, I've got another chance at life because I was too young and naive, I didn't really know. But but what I couldn't do is I couldn't play football, I couldn't do all the things that I wanted to do because I had a broken leg, I was bedridden and I was in a wheelchair for six months. But I remember I used to pick on my brother, because you do, you're the I was the older brother. I used to pick on him when he was little and try and try and well try and make him a man, I I I guess, which as works now because he's massive and he could tear me apart. He won't take any any rubbish from anyone. But but when we was younger, and it this was his sort of opportunity to think, ah, okay, well Dan's in a wheelchair now, he can't do anything. And they all everyone had to mum one might have to go out to work, dad went out to work, you know. My brother was was working at that point, but he took I'd nothing, but I had nothing to do, and this was back when I was 18, so we're talking like 20 odd 25 years ago, something, and he took all he took the PlayStation and put it on top of the stairs, he took the TV remotes, put them on top of the stairs, and I couldn't do anything all day, and I wheeled myself out, and they mum and dad they all come home and I was just as like asleep, slumped in my wheelchair at the bottom of the stairs, looking up at my PlayStation, and it's probably traumatic, but it was funny, but it just wasn't funny at the time because I was like, I had nothing to do, but that was his revenge. That was that was his revenge. Like another time, and I don't know, maybe this is why I've got a dark sense of humour. These things are just coming out now. But I remember two both my that was my brother. My dad pretended to fall out of the loft, and I was at the bottom of the stairs going, What can I do? I can't, I mean, I I can't do anything. And then my mum was another night was screaming because she dyed her hair and she pretended her hair had fallen out, and she was at the top of the stairs crying, and I was like trying to crawl up the stairs to help my mum. I was like, in a I was in a wheelchair with a broken leg. But that was how dark my I mean they're a loving family, but that that that's yeah, it's cool. The trauma is real. I don't know. That's that's obviously what gives me my dark sense of humour because to be fair, looking back, they're quite funny. That's quite funny.
SPEAKER_02: 47:42
Yeah, but yeah, it's quite funny to be fair. Not at the time.
SPEAKER_01: 47:45
Not at the time, no. So how's life for you now? How's life going for you now? You because you you you started your own business, so did you take all the kind of those struggles and you kind of repurpose you refocused and used it for good?
SPEAKER_02: 47:58
Yeah, that's exactly that, mate. Uh 2023, I think I went live with Dell Trade. Just started with one man band, and now we've got what seven guys working for us. So the strength to strength. I'm on a I'm on a business called the trade trade mastermind, Joseph Fernandin. I don't know if you're aware of him, he won The Apprentice all them years ago. I don't I've never I've never watched it really, but I I watched it back in the day, but yeah, but yeah, it's it's made me think about business and how uh you how you construct your business, run your business, where you want to grow your business. It's it's giving all that that that insight and help to to take things to to where they're going. And uh the sky's the limit, I mate. I I'm uh I fucking I want to turn over a million one day. If if not this year, next year I'm gonna I'm gonna nail it.
SPEAKER_01: 48:49
Well, I believe in you, mate. And I I see that you've got are they awards up on the wall behind you? Have you Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 48:55
It's all different of different modules of of uh of the of the course. The big the biggest one is that one there, yeah, is getting off the tools. That's getting off the tools is is my best accomplishment so far. Being able to focus on the business and really drive it to the next level. So I wouldn't be able to do it without without their help. So if anyone on the building games is in two minds starting a business and you need a bit of help, look these guys up, mate.
SPEAKER_01: 49:20
Well, that's incredible. Well, I'm glad that um I'm glad that things are all going really, really well for you and well deserved. I think you know the fact that you bottled all that stuff up for such a long time and dealt with some of the most horrific things a man can be told, and you dealt with that at in your twenties twice. So, mate, massive, massive respect to you. And I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story.




SPEAKER_02: 49:42
Anytime, mate, you need me back for anything, mate. You've got more you've got my details, get in touch, mate, and we'll do this again.

SPEAKER_01: 49:47
No worries, we'll do. We'll uh have an amazing evening. Tell your other half that I hope she has a speedy recovery. And yeah, send her my best wishes and I'll catch up with you soon. Thank you, mate. Appreciate it. Take care, Martin. All the best, mate. It's definitely not therapy. He beat cancer twice. Can you imagine? He's beat cancer twice. And the first time he did it on his own. But this isn't an advert for bottle things up. This is an advert for talk because that's come back in later life and there he's had struggles and he's had mental health issues where he's had to then go to Mandy's Andy's Man Club and open up and talk. He's had issues then in later life where he's had to then go to Andy's man club, he's had to find a group, he's had to find a support network. And that's fine, and that's good because he's then thrived from that. But if we can get to a point where we don't need to do that, but really appreciate Martin coming on and telling his story, he's thriving now, and yeah, we really appreciate you guys watching the episode and listening to the episode. So we'll see you in the next one.