How Sharing One Hard Story Can Help Someone Choose Tomorrow Elliott Hicks story

What if the story that nearly broke you becomes the reason someone else chooses to stay another day?
 This episode holds that kind of power.

We sit with Elliot, a single dad who rebuilt his life after betrayal, grief by suicide, and a world that still whispers to fathers, “You’re secondary.” This is not a filtered conversation. It is raw, human, and full of the truth people never say out loud.

Elliot speaks openly about losing his identity after separation, the fear of being judged for asking for help, and the pressure of performing strength when inside everything is shaking. He walks us through his long journey to a borderline personality disorder diagnosis — the triggers around loss and rejection, the emotional whiplash that can flip a day upside down, and the relief of finally hearing, “You’re not broken — this has a name.”

We go deeper than clichés about co-parenting. We talk about the reality: the moments dads get overlooked in schools, surgeries, and even in court phone calls; the fear that speaking honestly about mental health could be used against you; and the slow but real shift in the courts toward fairness, balance, and 50-50 care where it is safe.

And then we build forward.
 With tools that actually work in real life:
 • grounding techniques that calm your mind
 • routines that steady you when everything feels fragile
 • boundaries without guilt
 • small wins that make tomorrow feel possible
 • mates who show up
 • and the reminder that your child wants you, not your perfection

We also make room for joy — late-night kid one-liners, laughter that resets your breath, burritos with old friends, and the tiny moments that prove healing is not loud, it is steady.

If you have ever felt alone, ashamed, or scared to speak up, this episode is your hand on the shoulder. A map back to yourself. Proof that sharing one hard story can save someone’s tomorrow.

Legal Note (Important Context at the Time of Recording)

When this episode was recorded, UK child-contact law was different.
 In October 2025, the government announced plans to abolish the presumption that a child automatically benefits from contact with both parents.

This means:
 • no automatic assumption in favour of both parents
 • child safety and wellbeing become the absolute priority
 • emotional and coercive abuse now weighs far more heavily
 • courts can limit, supervise, or fully refuse contact where credible risk exists
 These changes will be added to the Children Act 1989 when parliamentary time allows.

If you are navigating separation now, seek advice through GOV.UK, family law specialists, and mediation where safe.

If This Episode Helps You, Please Support Us

Your support keeps these conversations alive. It helps us reach more people who feel alone in the dark.
 Follow the show, share the episode, or donate to keep our mission going.

Sponsor

Bell Trades – trusted, reliable, recommended.
 Website: www.belltrades.co.uk

Instagram: @bell__trades  

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00
Welcome to another episode of Definitely Not Therapy with me, social media sensation, Dan Lawrence. Someone has called me that before, so it's definitely not therapy. I'll be sitting down with a completely different stranger in every single episode. Talking about how life can really beat us down. We can fall apart at the seams, but we can sort of pick ourselves up and come out the other side. And by sharing our stories and by sharing what we've been through and our trauma, we can hopefully help other people. This is a podcast where you can come on, we can talk, we can have an unfiltered, raw, honest conversation about mental health, about men's mental health, about any kind of stigma that people just don't want us to talk about. And we can help spread awareness and we can help each other and we can, you know, be mates for an hour.
SPEAKER_00: 0:51
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 0:53
In this episode, I'll be talking to Elliot, who has had his fair share of trauma starting from a really young age. Elliot's lost loved ones who have unfortunately died by suicide. Due to this and to the challenges around the current stereotypical setup of childcare, when a relationship breaks down, the mum takes the child. That's just what happens. And as dads and as single dads and as broken dads in that situation, we are left to fight, to fight just to see our own child, which is quite frankly disgusting. The system is outdated, the system is heavily favoured towards mums. And it's always the mums who are the safeguarding parent. And that shouldn't be fair. It's 50-50. It should be equal. And I know this is going to cause some conflict. People are going to have opinions, and not every single situation is the same. But we're here to listen to Elliot's story and to hear what Elliot's been through. And again, if you're sat there and you might be thinking, I'm going through this, would this might help you? Elliot's story might help. The thing I would say, and I'm very, very blessed. I'm very lucky I get to spend a lot of time with my daughter. But that's not the same for all men, for all dads. It is not the same. A lot of men, a lot of dads, unfortunately, they do have to fight. They have to fight. They have to spend thousands of pounds in court fees just to be able to sit with a complete stranger in a youth centre once every two weeks for one hour. And it's unacceptable. It's unacceptable. And I don't think anyone can really understand the trauma that that will put on a man's mental health. What you have to go through. You have to fight just to see your own child.
SPEAKER_00: 2:42
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 2:44
Before we sort of jump into the sort of podcast, have you got any questions, or is there anything that you're kind of not comfortable me bringing up just so I can sort of make a note of it now?
SPEAKER_04: 2:57
No, I'm I'm all good, Dan. I mean, I'm just I'm one of those free talkers, just go with the flow. You know, just you start putting restrictions and it makes it awkward, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02: 3:07
So do you know the funny thing is every six because I've I asked that question to every single person now. I think you're my maybe like 16th, 17th one, and everyone said the same thing. No one took there's not so I think the type of person that will come on and do the podcast is exactly the same mindset. They're just there's no point in coming doing it unless and and ultimately from your research sheet, some people have put loads and loads and loads of info. You've put you're probably on the lower side of what you put on there. So the the more I know, the more chance there is of me maybe asking something that you don't want to talk about. Politics haven't really got much, so you you're gonna carry the episode, really. But uh it's uh really it's all on you, yeah. No pressure. Yeah, no pressure at all. No, it'd be fine. How many followers have you got 50,000 followers or something? Oh maybe well, it depends what you want to count, but about 1.5 million if you're looking across all the buttons I mean not that that many people listen to the podcast, I wouldn't have thought.
SPEAKER_00: 4:10
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 4:12
How have you been anyway, Stan? Yeah, good up and down, yeah. There's there's there's a there's a lot, I think the thing with me is there's in terms of like what I share, I probably share 10% of actually what goes on. But like funny enough, as an example, I did uh I did a podcast with Smithy family. I don't know if you follow them, but I do actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_04: 4:37
I'm a I'm a big fan of Nick. I think he's uh yeah, he's a good guy.
SPEAKER_02: 4:40
He's a really good guy. He gets he gets some some stick online, but he sort of plays up to it. He knows he loves it, he loves the attention.
SPEAKER_04: 4:47
But yeah, he knows I like the content with you guys together as well.
SPEAKER_02: 4:51
We've got a couple of really good ones coming out soon. Yeah, but Nick sat there and he he did the podcast and he was like, it's I get quite I get not attacked, but people comment a lot on what I post and what I've shared, and he sort of sat there and was like, if people knew the full extent of a lot of the situations, they wouldn't be saying what they're saying. That and and he he's also very different. He was like, Look, I would have thrown her under the bus, she would have been under the bus immediately. But he was like, you know, fair play for handling things, how you handled it, but it is tough, you know, it's tough, it's tough being because I still want that career in social media, and I just I wish I could just be the funny guy all the time, but it's just that's I think that's where I've struggled is like finding my confidence to just be funny again and not really.
SPEAKER_04: 5:41
Yeah, I think you and me have been through something quite similar. I don't know the story, I'm not gonna ask what it is either, it's not my business. But I think we've been through something similar. I think one for me when I went through what I went through with my ex. I you know, I I I met I met someone for a drink once. Wasn't a date, it was it someone I met at a park with her son, and we just exchanged numbers like single parents do, just let's get arranged uh arrange uh a play date, have it. We just ended up meeting for a drink. And she said, uh you know, I told her everything that happened with me, with my ex-wife, and she was like, you know, she said oh how's dating life, and I said, Oh you know, it's not for me. I'm just I don't want to really date. First of all, Leah's my priority, but secondly, I just I just want to get back to the old Elliot. You know, and one of the things she said was asked me really, I've just great question as well. She said, tell me who old Elliot is. Couldn't even tell her, just completely forgot.
SPEAKER_02: 6:42
Well you lost you just completely lost yourself and to the point you couldn't even remember.
SPEAKER_04: 6:47
I just just couldn't even remember, like I you know, I remember the time where I felt the top of the world, like before I met my ex, but I couldn't tell you in detail. And I I talked to this about to my psychologist, like who is Elliot? Like I obviously I know who I am, but I mean what my interests are, what I'd like to do, or you know, anything like that. I just couldn't tell you. Honestly, I just I I just yeah, I just sort of had to make stuff up on the spot, but I don't really know if it was accurate or not. You know, it just that's how lost you get when you get when you get torn apart like you, you know, like I did, it just takes it sucks the life out of you, it sucks the life out of you, and you just get to the point where you just you know, you just don't know your own identity anymore.
SPEAKER_02: 7:37
You just just go with the go with the flow, you know. You just but I think the problem I agree with you wholeheartedly, I agree, and and you're it's it's the first time I've I've had it put like that. Like who who is Elliot? And that's I mean it's such a powerful question. But actually, I've had a lot of men that have come on and been through this a similar situation to to well to me, obviously, I don't know yours, but I'd imagine it's quite similar. But and it's it's they look at it, and some that are a lot further down the line, like we're talking 20 years down the line, and they're like, You you never get that, you never get the old Elliot back. That's been a gone, but we spend so much time, that's what we want. We want to be that version of ourselves because that's we're remembering a happier time, but yeah, it's not possible. You need to find a new a new path, a new happy place, a new happy Elliot.
SPEAKER_04: 8:28
And it's I think I think that's that's what it is. That's what it is for me, is because I've always been since you know, uh you know, obviously I'm happy to tell you what happened. She had an affair, um, she had an affair and literally just left me and Leo for dry. Just so she got caught, left the house, that was it, you know, boom done. Sorry that throughout the way. No, that's right. You know, it's it was a long time in a way, in a way, it's a blessing. And uh the path after I started really realizing the the path after I started really discovering who this who this person really is. Like, I mean, very narcissistic traits, compulsive liar. And I had to navigate that until I, you know, I lost the you know, it's it's almost I didn't just lose a wife, I lost her I just didn't know who she was. It just she just turned out and all my friends were just uh weren't expecting no one was expecting it because she put such a false narrative of this wonderful person, but really was just a mask. Yeah, um and I but I had to uh find that out the hard way, unfortunately. And we I think so for me, I've always just been a hundred percent dad rather than a hundred percent Elliot, if that makes sense. Yeah, so that balance, that balance. You know, a lot of people say, Why are you doing more things for yourself? Go out on an Airbnb trip for yourself and stuff like that. Just don't think about stuff like that. I just think Leo, Leo, Leo, because if she's not gonna prioritize him, I I have to, but obviously that's a net that's a second nature for me. That's that's what I do.
SPEAKER_02: 10:09
I think we we've got so like so much in common, so much of what you said there hit home, and it it's and I think another reason that that we kind of lose ourselves is because we know I know who I was, you knew who you were, and we had this complete like trust, you trust in who you trust yourself to make the right decisions and to to guard your your heart, I guess. And then when that happens, then you and some and then that kind of person that you would have died for turns out to really not have cared. It's like how did I get that so wrong? Like you can't trust yourself anymore.
SPEAKER_04: 10:57
No, and and I think sit and and like on the dating side, I've got a huge wall now. Like I can't I can't I can't trust my own instinct. I mean, if you know this this the mother of my child and my supposed wife does this, who's to say that a stranger I mean or bumble or whatever won't do it, you know? It's it's it's such a yeah, it's finding out about the affair was actually the easiest part out of the whole journey. It was everything after that was the worst part because it was just there was always something that came to light, and it was something I had to navigate on top of uh managing the loss of my the breakdown of my marriage, not being able to be with my son, seeing my son in tears, saying mummy gone, daddy gone, all this stuff going on, and you you just like how on earth am I gonna navigate this? How I just you know, but as parents, you'll know Dan, we bear it.
SPEAKER_02: 11:57
You just you bear it, don't you? And it's but it that doesn't, you know, it's still hard, it's one of the hardest things. I don't I don't and I don't know. And some people cope better than others, but you know, I've had people that have gone through a lot worse than what I've gone through, and they just get on with it. They just somehow they do, but I've had people that have gone through a lot less, and they've been, you know, people that I know that have died by suicide, but they've gone through a lot less, and it's there's there's no like it's such a big grey area.
unknown: 12:28
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: 12:30
I know there's something niggling in the back of your mind right now, isn't there, where you're trying to concentrate on this podcast, on this very, very good podcast, this very engaging podcast. But you're thinking, I wish we had a new bathroom, I wish we had a new kitchen, wish we had a new games room.
SPEAKER_02: 12:46
Well, this week's episode of Definitely Not Therapy is sponsored by Bell Trades. We've all been there, haven't we? We've sat there and we've thought, right, next job, we'll get the kitchen done. Next job, we'll get the bathroom done. And we just never get round to it. Why do we do that?
SPEAKER_01: 13:04
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SPEAKER_02: 13:59
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SPEAKER_02: 14:40
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SPEAKER_00: 15:01
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 15:03
I appreciate people like you, Elliot, coming on and you know, sharing your story. Because I think even if we can help one person sat there thinking, okay, it you know, making their day better. I don't want to be as extreme as like saving their life, but the DMs I've got, people will think that's mad that you're saying that, Dan. Obviously, you can't save someone's life. But if you saw the DMs that I receive, then it would make it easier. But obviously, these are private DMs that I couldn't possibly share. But there's people that are really struggling, and actually by just sitting there and having to be able to listen to someone else that's gone through potentially worse, and they've come out the other side and they're doing okay. I think it just holds it it just speaks volumes. And I think by you know, like I say, people like you, Elliot, that's prepared to come on and tell your story, if it saves one person from feeling down or feeling alone, well, we've done our job.
SPEAKER_04: 15:57
Exactly that spot on. Yeah, I think that's what it's that's what it's about with mental health, and it's just talking. You even if we can help relate to one person that who's going through similar through you or me, I think that's all that matters, making them help helping them feel normal or normalizing it. That's 100%. I think it's just that's that's the trigger to getting them out of the hole.
SPEAKER_02: 16:23
100%, and it's it's you know, the message is it's okay to talk. It's okay to talk. I think there's there's a lot of j I can only speak from my side of things, and that's why it's quite interesting to hear other people's stories because you know, you hear this and you're told to talk, it's okay to talk, but then you do it, and you kind of and I did, and okay, I use my social media platform and with quite a lot of followers, and then I was judged for it. So it's like okay, so then it's like, oh, you can talk, it's okay to talk as long as it's within the confines of our rules, or whoever the viewer is or the listener, it's it's like there's all these rules in place, so actually it's not okay to talk at all. It's okay to talk as long as you keep it to yourself.
SPEAKER_04: 17:05
Yeah, it's it's it's such a hard one, Dan, because when I I think back to one of my best friends who uh committed suicide, and uh this was uh he was 19 when this happened, so this would have been about 15 years ago now. 15 years ago, and he opened up with us, but he was a real he was an emotional guy, but we we were just so uneducated. Yeah, so young, naive, so uneducated. The signs were there right in front of us, but we were just young, naive, you know. That's heartbreaking and uh but uh there's so many people out there. We it turned out after that so many more people started opening up. And that's that was my journey to discovering my mental health issues was you know, my best friend Adam's experience. And you know, the signs were there. You know, he there would be random times where he he would just cry, you know, when he was when on a night out where we were out in the pub doing our usual thing, and we would just be, oh, it's just I had to be Adam, you know, yeah, you know, have that just standard, you know, we were 19 at the time, we were you know, but also we just weren't educated enough about mental health at all. There was no no mention about it at school at all.
SPEAKER_02: 18:33
Well there wasn't there wasn't there wasn't back then, was there? That's the thing. There wasn't. So how you're not equipped to deal, how are you supposed to deal with that? Especially at that age range, and you're out with you know your mates, lads, lads, lads, you're having a few beers, you're not gonna be thinking, Oh, like his was it Adam, did you say your friend's name was? Adam, yeah, yeah. You're not gonna think, oh, he might be, you know, suicidal, he might be thinking this or thinking that. It's just you'd think I was actually too much to drink again, and we just you make it you make a joke of it.
SPEAKER_04: 19:08
Exactly that, and you know, we we talk about this all the time. We always talk about how we look back now, thinking, my god, it was right there in front of us. But we just did see it, and and yeah, I mean I I went through unfortunately I had uh I you know I had went through two suicides in the space space of a month, I had an old school friend, Hector, and 30 days later I had Adam, and I was you know, just like so I went from knowing nothing about depression or mental health to just just a snap of a finger, just boom, right there in front of you, two people you know, just gone. And you know, it's uh hindsight's a powerful thing, but you know, you look back now and you just think it was right there, and we we we can always we always regret it. I I don't think that's ever gonna go.
SPEAKER_02: 20:09
I was gonna say you must live with because they they say this about like survivors guilt, and and and even though it's not fair, you shouldn't none of his friends should feel like that, none of his family should feel like that, but you will, you will do because like you say, the signs were there, but if the education was better and we knew more about it, if that happened and he those signs were shown today, you'd probably be more equipped to deal with that. You'd probably sit down and have a conversation with him, you'd you know, make an effort to go around there and check on him or go out for a coffee, whatever it might be, but just to make him feel heard, I guess.
SPEAKER_04: 20:46
Yeah, it's it's you know, he would I think with with Adam, he was such a I can't honestly, he was just he was he was a big built guy. Six foot two or something. Really built guy, his energy was just there. Like if Adam walked into the room or to a party, you know Adam's here. It's such a big present, personality-wise, just the life of every. We we went to Mali at once, and we lost me and Adam lost uh our mates, and uh we just joined a random par Mali and just bumped into some Geordie boys and he's just started you know singing football songs, everyone joined it. That's just the sort of guy he was quite like. I mean he just he just yeah, he was just such a powerful energy, and so when when hearing about what happened to him, he'd be you'd he'd straight away be a classic candidate or someone who you just wouldn't expect to do it.
SPEAKER_02: 21:45
Well, this is what I'm gonna say like the way you've just described him there as being like the life and soul of the party, it's kind of that that that is what that are the signs that you'd look for now. People that are kind of that I don't know if you did you ever see that advert? The I think it was Norwich, it was a football club that put that advert on, and it was about the two guys in the football stadium, and they'd go every week and it was a each week it was a oh yeah, I think I do remember. And it's one was like his emotions were like he's really happy, really high. There's one that was just like normal the whole way through, but he looked like that was the one that would you would lose. Yeah, I do remember, and it was such a powerful message, and it is it it is that it is the one that you think I'm is happy, he's fine because you you see him always happy and he's so like charismatic, and yeah, that's really sad.
SPEAKER_04: 22:31
Yeah, and you know, and you know, it's it if Adams was to go that way, he I mean he you know he did what he did just before, you know, just after a party, you know, down in Apsley, having a time of his life. But uh you know, it's yeah, it's it I can tell you that uh from those experiences there it there is a shift of positive for you know stories. I mean the memories we created and Adam's name after it's just uh incredible. I mean what Adam's parents uh have done, you know, created charities and raising awareness for parents you know for Hectors, well Hector's uh Hector's parents, what they've done. And ultimately at what Adam did uh help me to my path to to my uh I wouldn't say recovery, but you know, my journey discovering my issues. I mean that was what got it started for me because then I started knowing but it cost a life, it shouldn't have to.
SPEAKER_02: 23:41
That's the sad thing, isn't it? The these these you know, there's something good can come from something devastating, but you just wish that that one thing that was devastating just didn't happen in the first place. Like Andy's Man Club. I don't know if you've heard of Andy's Man Club, but that was because of a guy called Andy, and then there was like I think seven friends or nine of his best friends. They they formed this group where they could go and talk to each other, and now it's this big charity and suicide prevention, and it's they're doing incredible things, but that's come at the cost of someone's life.
SPEAKER_04: 24:13
Yeah, exactly that. So Adam's mum got involved with a charity called Uraise Me Up down in Eastbourne. Okay, it was a charity's it was a charity to help parents because what parents plan funerals for their for their children to die in? No one. I mean, do you save money to no one? You know, how do you so they offer counselling supports for other parents who've had sudden losses of their children? They don't they raise money for to help the funeral funds. I mean you've got Hector's House entering outstanding uh charity uh Hector's House. So again, raising awareness for mental health, uh giving people safe space to talk and offering counselling and 24-7 service, and uh it's incredible how what the parents have done, you know. Like Adam's mum's just started a charity called Adam's Light. So and you know, it's and it's just been fantastic just watching the success stories, and and and yeah, it it is a shame that it had to cost a life, but you know, that's what essentially, you know, it's ultimately what I'm here for because I this I want to talk about it. I want to I've gone through challenges, we've gone through challenges, we've all been through challenges, just share them out, speak the word.
SPEAKER_02: 25:35
Well that's that's it. That that is and and and when you you know kind of hear stories about like Adams or Hectors, it's it's never gonna be easy, it's never gonna be an easy topic to talk about. But you're you're 100% right. If we can use that, and obviously his family have they've used used the kind of that as a platform to then do good and actually maybe save some other parents from having to go through that same thing, which I just must be the hardest thing in the world to do it, must be the hardest thing in the world to do, although there's good coming from that, and it's nice to have those memories and to remember all the good times, it's always gonna be there in the back of your mind, and you know, of what of what he was going through, and it must be hard. But but how you mentioned about your own mental health journey then about how it helped you was did it kind of make you then aware more about yourself, more self-aware of mental health, or was it you know how help you?
SPEAKER_04: 26:35
Yeah, absolutely. So I uh I I always knew there was something not right for me for a young age. I went through trauma at a young age. I went through trauma from a young age, and and uh I uh essentially after everything had uh happened with Adam, I started I think realizing there were some triggers that sort of escalated and uh I started seeing the doctor about it and talking about my moods and how things have been. I've been in and out of uh counseling and antidepressants, thinking I was just depressed, depressed, depressed, depressed, and in and out. So I mean the journey to it took me probably about probably about six years to to get to the diagnosis, which is a borderline personality disorder. They used to call it uh AUPD, so emotionally unstable personality disorder, but they changed it because it just made people, it just made that label on your head emotionally unstable. It's it's a bit of a savage way, like let's actually say you're you're not stable enough. It was just so they changed the name to borderline personality disorder. And I remember it so well, the journey to getting there. You know, I had a lot of trauma through growing up, and uh when uh I was in and out of uh mental health clinic, and uh I remember sitting down with a woman a a mental health uh nurse with my mum who was by my side. Um and you know, we were we were going through questions about everything I was going through, and uh and she said uh I know exactly what this is. And she said borderline personality disorder, and uh she went through everything and each symptom she was going through, I just started tearing up, tearing up, tearing up more and more and more because it's like holy I might not swear on this.
SPEAKER_02: 28:42
Yeah, yeah, you can swear.
SPEAKER_04: 28:44
Oh yeah, I was like holy shit, this yeah, this is making sense. This is making sense, this is this is like and it it just the relief so it made you feel like yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 28:58
I mean you said relief. I was thinking like you was getting upset because you was finally feeling like okay, uh they understand me, uh which means I can understand myself better.
SPEAKER_04: 29:09
No, it was it was the relief because I could finally figure out what it is. I I was just in the unknown, didn't know what was going on. I always said to my mum growing up, I'm telling you, there's something more than just depression, like there's something more, and it was just a relief of it's it's it's amazing when something makes sense in your brain, it's like it's like right, I can work with something now. I can work with something, I've got something to to to work with. And from then on, just that was sort of my it's not it's basically borderline personality is something that happens through trauma from a young age.
SPEAKER_02: 29:52
Well, funny enough, I was gonna because I don't I'm not that educated on it, so I was gonna ask is it something that you can that you are potentially born with? Or is it something that does come from trauma at a young age?
SPEAKER_04: 30:04
I it's the research done so far, it's not that clear. What they they think is based on childhood trauma, and what it does essentially is you get triggered and it affects your moods and your emotions. So in my in my case, I would get triggered by fear of loss and rejection. And rejection. So you could you literally feel like you're on top of the world one point, like brilliant, dominating the world, I'm invincible. And then you might just get a rejection somehow, like you get turned out for a job, and then it's like just downhill. You just start getting into that, and it's that vicious cycle, and then it's how you get out of that vicious cycle. And then you start having unhealthy thoughts in your mind and in your brain, and it escalates and escalates and and it escalates, and that's how it affects your mood. Sometimes you just go radio silent on your friends and family or whatever.
SPEAKER_02: 31:08
So, what did that look like for you when you had these triggers? Uh well first of all, what sort of age were you when this was sort of all happening?
SPEAKER_04: 31:17
So it was probably when I was 14. Okay, so it'd like a teenager. Yeah, 13, 14 is when it all happens. I you know, I found out my dad was gay from when I was 14. And uh you know, I uh and I found out probably not a way a 14-year-old should.
SPEAKER_02: 31:48
Right, okay.
SPEAKER_04: 31:48
I won't I won't go more detail, but and you know, I remember my mum was very she was an absolute rock, and my sister through support, she contacted school to let them know what what I was going through, and they put extra support in place to help me through that. And I even got counselling very early at school from it.
SPEAKER_02: 32:11
That's good that you got that support and that you had that support network around you.
SPEAKER_04: 32:15
Yeah, but my mum had to push for it.
SPEAKER_02: 32:17
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_04: 32:18
She had to push for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She absolutely yeah, it was she had to really push for it. But it it it's so you think you're out of the woods, but you just don't know what trauma is that young. You just don't know it. What what is trauma? It's like to give you an example, someone uh has a close uh deaf experience nearly drowning, and then you get triggered by getting close to a swimming pool or a sea. It's like that, but like through everyday life, like anything emotionally related to rejection or fear of loss. Because I've had losses, I've I've had losses from you know, I growing up through my teenage. I mean, I've come from Italian background family. We're all about family togetherness. This that's it's unheard of. Like, you know, I was so family orientated. And you know, month after there was I remember there was one year, one month after month, you know, this happened. My my auntie and uncle's divorced. There was an affair here, there was this there, and yeah, it just all of a sudden like my family falling apart, like you know, like it's including my parents.
SPEAKER_02: 33:29
And you know, so I've had loss, I've had rejection, you know, uh, you know, and and it it just I think that's hard for I think that's hard for that would be hard for a grown adult to process that well prime example, I was a grown adult and I couldn't process my own stuff, but for a 13, 14-year-old boy, that I can't even imagine how hard that that was. And I can certainly relate to some of the things that you've said there. I think I I died when in an ambulance once when I was run over, I was run over by a speedy motorbike. I was in in a bad way, broken legs, ankles, shattered ankles, and died in the ambulance. And I just remember this, all I remember is this loud noise, motorbike noise. And so I'm still tri tr triggered by that. I don't I don't I was young, I was 18, so I I think I was too young to think of it like a near-death experience because I just thought I I just maybe like I was a bit not selfish, but I was like, I won't be able to play football. Like I won't be able to I was looking at the negative, not oh my god, I've got another chance at life. Like I shouldn't have been able to walk again and I can. And I think the other thing that hit home for me there was it's it's it's kind of like for me going through the trauma of losing what I lost, which we touched on it earlier about you know, you feel like you you do as a man, I think you just lose so much more. But my family growing up, they're all together, everyone's still together. My nan and granddad were still together when they died. Both my nan and granddad were still together when they died, my mum and dad's still together, my aunties and uncles. I didn't ever experience any of any of that. So when it happens to you, you feel like I felt like a failure. Like I've let generations of my family down, like that's the weight that I felt on my shoulders. But yeah, sorry, it's just that I could relate to that, so I wanted to kind of mention that.
SPEAKER_04: 35:36
No, yeah, it's but that's so important, Dad, that you recognise that because that was my journey. So it took me ages to find the right therapist for me. So they recommend psychotherapy for people with traits of borderline personality disorder, and it took me years to find the right one for me. And I I found Nicola, who I still see, she's been seeing me for about seven years now. Honestly, she she just and the techniques she showed me, it's all about techniques, and recognition is one of them because that's the thing with borderline personality disorder. You don't know you're going through this, you don't know what your triggers are. You have to, it's all about recognizing it and actually it's like, ah, hold on a minute, I know what's going on here, right? Okay, we need to do this, we need to do that. And recognition is so important because that's when you know you can do something, and that trauma that you talked about, you know, I went through the same, and it's uh it's incredible how it when it happens to you, you just think it's just it's unimaginable. But when it happens, it hits you so hard, like butts hitting you. And I'm so sorry you went through what you went through. I think first of all, when you were 18, but uh you know, after everything as well. And I think uh mental health's all about trauma, you know, for me. Uh I can only talk from my experience, it's trauma. It's it's just you know, if you if you climb a tree, you grab a branch, you break, you know, the branch breaks, you break your you're not gonna climb that uh branch again. You're not gonna climb that tree again. Yes, just and you start getting the shakes or anxiety or whatever. That's what it is for me, and it's such a hard way to navigate it. It's it's a hell of a journey because you gotta go through the right therapy because not it, you know, when you see therapists, honestly, it's great, but you need to find the right therapist for you. So I think that's that was part of my journey, it's finding the right way. It took me ages to find Nicola, and I'm so grateful I did.
SPEAKER_02: 37:51
Yeah, I think I sort of gave I don't want to say gave up, but I just it didn't, it didn't I so I've probably got a little bit of kind of trauma around, and I've got to be a little bit careful with what I say, but I've probably got a l a little bit of therapy around trauma around therapy and seeing a therapist because it was something that was told to me a few times before everything went wrong, and it's kind of like and I I kind of felt in myself I I was putting myself bottom of the pile. I thought I don't need that, I don't need to spend that money because that's money that I'm taking away from my family and they need things. Yeah. So it's like, I'll just don't worry about me, I'll deal with me further down the road. And I didn't get the chance to be further down the road. That that that that was the problem, and then and then what happened was I was then shoved in front of a therapist fairly soon after, within I can't remember it, but with certainly within a week to two weeks, and I didn't want to be there, but it was kind of like a tick-box exercise, like right, there you go, you've seen a therapist now. It's like and I just sat there and cried the whole time. I was just in bit I didn't, I couldn't function. I was still processing, didn't know how to process. And I had this stranger sat in this stranger's office and just basically, you know, being told, right, this is what's happened, you know, get it, get it all off your chest and we can move on. And it's I was like, this is m just m-I didn't I didn't know I didn't know what to do. I was I was like a deer in the headlights, but I was just bawling my eyes out the whole time trying to tell this person this story, and I felt like I wasn't being listened to anyway. And then so it took me a bit of time. I went and then found my own therapist, and it was it was I kind of had this therapist, she was she was lovely, but what I felt was she was agreeing with everything that I was all my all my trauma, everything I was unloading, she was agreeing with, which is fine. I get that's probably part of it, but I just felt like I'm not getting anything from it. Like I know the things I'm feeling and the pain I'm feeling, I know it's real because I'm feeling it. I didn't need to sit there. I needed her to say, right, that's fine. Now we need to box this up and then move on. But we didn't, I didn't so I just I didn't, and it was just again, it was money, just costing money. I never went through the NHS because I don't I don't know. I I tell you what it was for for me is I was scared that it would be used against me in some format. If it's like I'll go and see a therapist, or if I went to the doctors and said, Look, I think I might be depressed. I thought it might be used against me, which it probably would never have. But in my mind, I was like, that's what's gonna happen. And then I'll use In what way used against you, if you don't mind me asking. For like time with my little girl. Oh, okay, gotcha. So I thought it'd be like Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. Seeing a therapist or it's gone to a doctor, so it's not you know, fit and that would never have happened. I know I know that wouldn't, but in my brain, I convinced myself that is what would happen.
SPEAKER_04: 41:25
I went through that as well. I understand. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's uh it's uh it's yeah, I because when you go through what we went through, you have so many different scenarios going around your head, don't you? It's like you always think of the worst-case scenarios, and you sort of always have to be prepared for what's to come, surprises, whatever. But yeah, I totally hear that. I I I this is something I had when me and my ex met. So but I think I think in in a way it it the fact that you're being proactive about it shows that we are fit to be the parents we are because we're proactive about it, and so you know there's there's a switch side to that. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_02: 42:20
Yeah, that's true, that's true. I hadn't I probably hadn't even looked at it that that way, if I'm honest. But yeah, and and I think touching on what you said earlier as well, I think men again. I can speak for me, you can speak for you, but we've I think we've probably got quite similar when it comes to our our little ones. It's like you you already lose like so much you lose so much of the other stuff, like the family, the home, this, that time of your little little little one, but you also lose like a piece of you, you you lose confidence and you lose so you just then throw everything into just right. Well, my now my personality is dad, that is it, solely dad. Yeah, and I oh god you which I think you can probably relate to that because of what we've talked about, but it's I've had to do that and also then pretend to still be Dan and go and be like create a whole new personality to be online and try and be funny or try and be this or try and be that and try and earn money to be able to, you know, because my you know I don't know how to put this into words, but it's like for me, I'm fortunate with what I get to do, and I'm fortunate with the the job that I have. I'm fortunate in some ways, but also I worked so hard at it, I worked so hard and I wanted it so much, and it gave us a lifestyle where we could do, you know, we could do some nice things, but we could have the time together. That was the most important thing for me. Like I've never come into social media thinking, right, next stop Lamborghini. Like I've never been, I've never been all the things I've got now, the home, well, the home basically, and you know, that was all from a job that I worked for 20 years. The social media is just that's let's just right, let's just have fun now, let's let's have time together. So I just don't want to give that up because I don't want to give up the time with Harper. But it's it's hard to do that solely sort of on your own because you haven't got any support, you haven't got someone that believes in you anymore. And that's I think that was my superpower. I I had someone that anything I would do, I had that someone that believed in me so much that I could make it work, and you lose it.
SPEAKER_04: 44:36
Yeah, I think I think perseverance as well, Dan. You know, I'm not saying mums aren't like this, but we're certainly with dads, we got perseverance. I mean, we've touched on this as parents, we bear it. You just carry on. You just I don't know where it comes from, you just you just do it. Like I I remember when everything happened with me and my ex, and people were like, How are you doing what you're doing? How are you functioning? Like, how are you washing up the meal prepping for Leo? Like, you don't have a choice as parents, especially a single parent, you know. My my mum doesn't uh live close to me, she's about 45 minutes away, so I couldn't just casually call her be like, Do you mind popping over? I need to do this or whatever. I don't have that. Yeah, I know you know, you know, I I don't have that. You just do it. And and it's funny because it's it's especially with a single dad. I don't know if you get this a lot, Dan, but I'm I had Leo four nights a week when we broke up and uh we only recently I only recently let her have an extra sleepover every fortnight, so it's more 50-50. And I had so many people like say, Oh, you're going four nights a week. Fair play to you. Fair play to you. Like, oh wow, well done. You're you know, you're a so why wouldn't I?
SPEAKER_02: 45:58
Yeah, that's just normal though, isn't it? That's that's normal.
SPEAKER_04: 46:01
But uh yeah, it it's it it's so I think we live in a world where uh it's so assumptuous to assume that the mums are the same goalkeepers of their children, so it's not always the case. Um you know uh you know I you know for example when I take my son to uh to the doctor's, you know, took him to get his injections done, and the nurse says, Oh, I'm I assume you're the dad? It's like no, just I'm just a neighbour. It's just what I just you know I bet if a mum you are hungry. Are you are you the mum? Are you the mum? No, no way. It's just that's quite weird. That's so weird. Isn't it? Isn't isn't it? It's just we uh another great uh you know another great example. I my son wasn't was really feeling quite poorly, and I called 111 once and uh I called 111 and uh you know they're going through the script asking questions and he was in he was crying his eyes out, he was really not in a good place. And uh and the operator said, Can you uh take him to his mummy please? I can't hear you on the phone. I said, I'm sorry, it's my mummy's not around. She said, Do you mean she's out for the night? Or you know, I said, No, we're we're separated, we don't um we're not together. The old question she asked next she said, are the social services involved? And I was like, What is that? That's the assumption. That's the assumption, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And I was like, I I just couldn't believe it. I just could not believe it. And all because I'm a dad caring for my son, you know, and I I just you know, I I'm his primary contact and nursery and and the surgery and yeah, and uh and the surgery said like oh yeah, I said it uh when I was trying to book an appointment, he said, uh are you uh are you uh can I just confirm this is your number? I said no, that's his mom's probably you should probably change that to my number. Straight away hesitant, she's like, oh right, and are you the primary carer? I was like he he lives at the address. I live at the address, but he's registered to, so and I have a four nights a week, so yeah, and it was just this hesitancy, judgmental, isn't it? Just a yeah, yeah, and you know, I get it, you know, there are there's a lot of stories out there where dads, you know, don't fulfil their duties, but not all dads are like that, and it's one thing I really feel passionate about is you know, just because I'm a dad doesn't you know why should it be a surprise of me having my son four nights a week or whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_02: 49:06
It shouldn't, but that's what we need to that's why we need to talk about these things because this needs to become normal, because it is normal, because I would say majority of and again I only know a small amount of people, I get hundreds of messages, and I I and I and I do see it from both sides. I you know, there's a few circumstances that have cropped up where and and I would never I would never I would never what's the right word? Like not encourage I I understand this, but I don't agree with it. But it's like some some dads when they go through potentially the same as what we've been through, they they bail. They just they go, they meet someone new, they start a new life and they just forget their old life because they can't because they know for the most part that unless you're in having a good relationship with your ex, you're an uphill battle, you're never gonna win. You're gonna it's gonna cost you thousands, you'll never be able to see your kid. Well, do you know what you might as well draw a line, you might as well start again and do the whole thing again. But that's not that's not right, and I don't agree with that. I can understand why men do that. I mean, say I understand. I don't I it's still I have to say that I understand because I I can understand the logic to it, but I that but I would rather fight and lose everything to to spend time with.
SPEAKER_04: 50:32
Absolutely. But the the court the court system these days, I mean we haven't had child care arrangements, but if it did go to that, it's it's really fair now. So they are always in favour of 50-50 unless serious circumstances like the one of the parent is a drug addict or living in an unhealthy, yeah, living household, you know, they're always going the 50-50 favour now.
SPEAKER_02: 51:01
Well that's actually really good to hear because I yeah, again, from the messages that I receive, I actually had this opinion that it was heavily, heavily biased in the mum's favour. So that's actually really interesting.
SPEAKER_04: 51:13
That no, no, I I thought that as well. I thought that I I thought because of everything that happened with me and my ex, I thought you know, it might just naturally go in her favour. But when I saw a solicitor, she said that it did there's a lot of that like there's no such thing as custody anymore, it's just child care arrangements. Okay, basically, if you come if you don't come to an agreement when the judge will say, right, go see mediator, they'll go through all avenues before the judge has to make a decision.
SPEAKER_02: 51:48
Okay.
SPEAKER_04: 51:48
That's that's actually good. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, the only time and mediation is there to help facilitate and come to an agreement with childcare arrangements. If in my circumstance, we didn't need that, it was agreed from the get-go. But if it got to the point we do need it, uh always in favor of 50-50, you'd have to have real extreme circumstances not to, yeah, for it not to be 50-50. So they'll look at everything, so you know, your work, working hours, routine, routine, and sometimes they'll even say 50-50 week on, week off, weekend on, weekend off. Like that's and I think some mums are quite surprised by that. They'll be like, oh, why that's not fair. And like he goes to work, he'll just get his mum to pick him up. Doesn't matter, it's just up to the dad, you know, it's up to the parent.
SPEAKER_02: 52:45
Oh, that's actually really that's really positive. I mean, it's I mean that listen, these aren't positive things to to talk about. We're talking about children's lives, but it's positive that dads actually are kind of we get that same that same we're valued equally now in that respect.
SPEAKER_04: 53:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they yeah, they they've you know they've they've removed like the blame rule for divorces and stuff, so it's you know, they've just cut the crap out, cut the everything out, and they just think, right, what's best for the child.
SPEAKER_02: 53:14
What's best for the child, that's good, yeah. I think what's best for the child. I think I've been really lucky because uh lots lots of reasons, but I get to see Harpa like pretty much every day at the moment. I think it's gonna hit me when I don't get to see her every day. But I just when you see these sorts of things, even pe that having to go through that at all, like I I don't know. I honestly don't know if I'd cope with it. I don't know if I'd cope with it because it's hard, like just co-parenting when we're basically still living in the same house is is still hard. Like doing that I mean, what is co-parenting Dando?
SPEAKER_04: 53:53
What is it? I mean, it's just it's just a word. I mean, equally, the dad is gonna do whatever he wants with the child, and the mum's gonna do whatever they want with the child. That she's gonna disagree that I give them sausages, she's gonna dis uh I'm gonna disagree, but she gives them fruit shoot, you know, she's gonna do it. Yeah, it what what is co-parenting? And uh and that was one of my biggest challenges as well, was uh finding that shit. It's definitely a journey because when I started, when we started this new routine, uh I I I got into this habit of uh 100% dad when I'm with Leo. But the worst Elliot when I'm not with Leo. Right. Where it should be you just put all your energy to being the best dad, but when I'm not not with him, uh you know, I just it was almost self-sabotage, yeah, just being a place you start, you know. But for me, I had to really learn to love my own company again, to love my own home, love my own company, do little things for myself. I mean, that's taken me you know bloody long time to get there. Yeah, and a lot of psychology sessions as well.
SPEAKER_02: 55:10
You know, it's not easy, is it? We I think we naturally do that. I mean, the fact that we've had a similar journey and we both feel exactly the same. I'd imagine most men, 99% of men probably feel exactly the same. And and I wasn't, you know, because you put so much emphasis on being a dad, that's your whole persona, that's your whole identity. Well it was for me. I wasn't looking after myself. I was ordering like loads of people were saying to me, and it can go lots of different ways. People turn to drugs, people turn to alcohol, people, you know, lose loads of weight because they're not eating. I was just I was binging. I was binging I was ordering pizzas at two o'clock in the morning every night for about I don't know, a couple of months. Yeah, like it's but I was just I was just binge I couldn't sleep, so I was binging food and I wasn't looking after myself, and I was putting all my emphasis on right have to be happy, have to be jolly for Harper. And then when I hadn't have her, I was just um I was the same. Self-sabatizers are just a mess. So only it's only really recently that I've started looking after myself. I've joined the gym, I've I've started being a bit more going out because again in this industry, I just shut myself off. I wasn't going to events, I wasn't turning down every single invite I got. Whereas now I'm like, okay, yeah, maybe I can go to that, maybe I can dress up, maybe I can put a shirt on, and and then I've started to meet new people, and it's yeah, I've really started to s to look after myself. And I think I used to get a lot of messages and it never really I never really paid attention to them, but they would always say, You need to be the best version of yourself so you can be the best version, so you can be the best dad.
SPEAKER_04: 56:44
Exactly that, exactly, and that's what I learned. I think that was the shift for me where I thought something needs to change because you know there's me thinking this heroic dad, the the super dad, best dad in the world. But if you you know, in reflection, I wasn't looking after myself. I mean, what sort of you know, do you not want to be around for your for your son or for your daughter? Um, and I think that that for me was uh the the sort of like the shift I needed to realise okay, something needs to change it. It's now it's time I need to start uh being a hundred percent Elliot again, and uh not just a hundred percent dad, being a hundred percent dad, but being uh hundred percent Elliot as well. Because that's uh that's that takes a lot of work, especially when you've been through the trauma that you know that we've been through. But for me, that was the you know, it was when I started realising that what I was doing could affect Leo. Yeah, and uh and that's why I was like, have to change, gotta do something, gotta do it, have to do it.
SPEAKER_02: 57:56
I think with these things, you you've you've obviously come to the realization yourself, uh and I did the same. And because you get all these opinions, everyone wants to say something to you, everyone wants to tell you what you should do. But until you're ready to do that and to make that change, you're not gonna do it. So, as much as even sat here, we're talking and sharing our stories, but actually, even someone sat there now, they might not be ready to make that change, but at some point you will be, and I think it's about hopefully giving themselves enough time that because people used to say to me all the time, time is a healer, time will heal, you will feel better. And I used to think I just don't want to hear that, like I just don't want to hear that. But actually it really is though, isn't it? It's the it's the most true thing that I've ever been told, and it and it is. And if you just give yourself, you know, if you're sat there now thinking, I just can't do this anymore, or whatever your thoughts are, just give yourself that little bit of time because you will start to feel better. There's always going to be bumps in the road. I'm sure you still have bumps in the road now, Elliot. I I definitely do, yeah. But learning to cope with them.
SPEAKER_04: 59:00
It's how exactly that is how you manage it. It's you know, it's it's how it's how you manage it and that you find new coping mechanisms to to manage it. You know, for example, me, I started reading about Marcus Aurelius, who's a philosopher, and someone who quotes I'd I'd highly recommend reading up his book, Meditation, but it's a powerful quotes, you know, and really inspiring. You know, things like yeah, power over your mind, not outside events, realise this, you'll find strength. It's all about perspective, and and it it and I found that really helpful for the me. So I listened to his book, I read his book, I listen to a podcast about it. There's some YouTube videos going through quotes and you know to help me relax rather than but that was that worked for me. You know, some people might discover a new hobby, yeah. Some people might some people might find other
SPEAKER_02: 1:00:00
ways that's that's the journey that's that's the journey you go through but you but you won't know until you try it that's that's the thing and for for me for me it was the sort of the the gym has been a big one for me and everyone says like oh the gym they they become so focused on the gym and like that that then becomes their personality and you see and I don't like the gym well I don't like the gym quite frankly I could end the sentence there really I don't like the gym because it's I don't feel natural there I'm not like I don't have a six pack you've got all these guys with big muscles and vests and they're like fist bumping and they're like great reps mate and but for me it's it's good to lose a bit of weight it's good for me to have some cardio so because I do want to be around I want to be around for as long as I can for my little girl and why would I not do that for her but for me it's like mental health it's the mental health I get to like just be in there for an hour on a cross trainer or a treadmill or and just I can just put music on or a podcast and I can just disappear for an hour and I can sit in a and then I go in the steam room and I've trained myself to be in the steam room for like quite a long time probably an unhealthy amount of time but like half an hour to 45 minutes because you can't have a I can't have a phone I can't have anything and then I can just sit there and listen to other people's like conversations and it's so you do a lot of walking though don't you Dan you do a lot of walking I do a lot of walking and and some I mean might be walking is the right one for you just because you don't enjoy the gym doesn't mean you had you know you don't have to go to the gym because you know if walking's right for you walking's right for you. See my thing that's I that's what it is walking is my thing to do something walking 100% is my thing but let me tell you when you've had two broken legs and two broken ankles like I've just done three days at a festival and I've been hobbling around all day like the problem is I want to do that I would go out and walk for hours every day but I'm in so much pain with it and then it's kind of and then I'm bedbound not bedbound but I I I'm then struggling for two days so it's just finding that balance but that's why I do the gym so I can do some kind of other stuff I can take it a bit easier I can do a cross trainer. It's not as fun I love getting out especially when it's summer I'd rather go out in the evening and just walk for a couple of hours me and my friends often go on walks and we just lose ourselves for like three four hours but yeah it's the it's yeah if it's a journey isn't it we all learn I mean I hate the gym as well my my mates are begging me to go to the gym I just and I always find excuses but I'm not ready yet yeah I'm not ready yet you know I've I'm I'm managing a lot at the moment but you'll do that when you're ready when your time's and that's okay yeah yeah exactly it's your journey and I think you're you know when you but when you go through something like we've been through I have no problem saying no to people now it's because I know what I want I know how to protect myself and if I need something I need space or I don't want to commit something I'll just say no I'm not I've been through worse than someone being a little bit annoyed with me for an hour. Do you know what I mean? Yeah I tried I was trying to look for it this book here it's called the courage to be disliked which I which has got I actually heard it on someone else's podcast Romish Raganathan and Tom Davis they do the Wolf and Ow pod and they brought um Romish brought it up a couple of times obviously that you know they've talked about their mental health stuff before um and I so I got I I actually messaged Romish because we we've but this isn't like to name drop or whatever but he's actually been really kind to me because they spoke about my video that I posted they spoke about it on their podcast and oh did they well I knew I sort of had been in contact with Romish before that he'd messaged me once for a video was that the initial video that came out after everything. So this but I knew Romish before that because he'd messaged me a couple of times I posted some videos because I've been doing this for a long time and Romish messaged me once my claim to fame he messaged me and went you're really funny keep keep going with it and which was really nice and he sort of kept in contact and he's such a lovely guy and so and and they talked about my that video of when I was well when I was like I was crying and putting myself out there they talked about it on their podcast and it was kind of they had this debate people and it was like people shouldn't probably put this online and I sort of and I do sort of get it because people go online to escape. We go on to to to lose ourselves we don't want to go on and see someone else's problems but they were really nice but they talked about it I mean they gave a fair opinion on it and they both Tom and Romish reached out after but Romish spoke about that book a few times and I thought I'm gonna message him and just ask and he said yeah so he said it's a bit of a you've got to get used to the read because it's done in like a an old fashioned conversation style but it's really good it's really helped me I'm about halfway through but it's called yeah the courage to be disliked and it's a bit philosophical you know it's it's but reading doesn't come naturally to me I'd rather get out and go for a walk no same here I I I'm not a book reader either but again it's just one of those things I just thought it's into the media it's finding trying it and you might just pick up one or two things from it that actually going to help you in your life and I think what's the you know that's certainly not a bad thing is it so yeah okay well look I really really appreciate you coming on and talking to me Elliot and to share your story mate I these you know these podcasts can be a little bit heavy because we talk about some really deep subjects and some some tough things so I always like to kind of finish on something a bit more positive. Have you got anything and this is going to put you on the spot have you got anything that's happened in the last couple of weeks that's made you laugh whether it's probably something to do with your Harper does things all the time she I'll I'll give you an example because something happened I've been dying to tell someone this and yeah go on so we've obviously just been away at the festival even now thinking about it makes me laugh so she and you're gonna think I've wrote this part into the podcast just so I can tell this story but genuinely at the end I always ask Tell me something that's made you laugh in the last couple of weeks but so we were at the festival and this song was on one of the Funfair rides and it was the music to that jet two holidays thing nothing beats a jet two holiday so there's all these memes that go and these videos and it's like nothing beats a jet two holiday and so I was teaching that to Harper because the music was on and I was going nothing beats a jet two holiday anyway cut to three o'clock in the morning and we're on we're away I'm trying to we're trying to train her from getting out of nappies at night because she's still sitting nappies and it's it's it's a whole thing anyway so I wake her up at three o'clock the baby in the tent next to us is crying and it's all a bit chaotic can hear the parent the baby's crying so I think oh well now's the perfect time I wake her up I've got to take her to the toilet she's fast asleep I pick her up wake her up she can hear this child screaming she opens her eyes and she says nothing beat it's a jet two holiday what where has that come from definitely my so clever aren't they they are literally just they come out of nothing don't they just we've said it once during the day brilliant we'd said it once during the day nothing beats the jet and she must have that must have I can't understand how else unless she was asleep just in her head going nothing beats the Jetsu holiday nothing beats the jet because as soon as I picked her up and she had the baby crying and I had her it was just the perfect moment and it was nothing beats the jet two holiday yeah because it was we're in a tent it's freezing cold and I'm taking her for a wee we've got to walk across the field and it was just the perfect moment. It was one of the best moments of my whole life because it just made me laugh so much I I do know uh I it's my I mean my stories could be boring but I you know it's not a specific joke I was set but like a couple a couple weeks ago me and my best mates we all had a gathering just and it's the first time we had done it in ages like everyone's everyone's got kids they get married you know some live in London and some don't you know so it's really hard to actually have a proper get together and just we had beers we had burritos and just it's I can't remember I can't remember the last time I laughed that much it was just so good just to have some drinks catch up just have laughs with your mates and you know that was you know I think that was one of the best it was it was in a much it was one of the it was it was the most needed time it was like the time where I needed it the most yeah and sometimes you can't you can I've had nights like that you look back you can't remember specifically what was so funny but you know it was one of the funniest nights you've ever had just because you probably really let your hair down you've not been able to because look a lot of I find because I post a lot online and I so I have to be careful about what I say. So I might think things and I can't say them but then when I'm with my best friends that's that's when all of that stuff comes out all of that stuff that I think I couldn't say that I've got to be restricted. I get with my friends and we're like we go to town and yeah it's uh so I can relate to that I think that's I think that's brilliant and it's good that you that you you have that kind of support network and that you've got some friends that you go out with and can really kind of absolutely they they've been my rock through everything I wouldn't be where I am today without my mates you know my mum my sister and you know my psychologist you know they've they've and most importantly Leo my son and sometimes those those are the things you need in life just your best mates and your family and your child and your children and everything else doesn't really matter.
SPEAKER_04: 1:09:57
You know it's it's that's what it is.
SPEAKER_02: 1:09:59
That's it and think and things again I you know I've and I've kind of gone on about this more recently because of well not you know not for any particular reason but I just think there's there's there's I I sometimes people sometimes get confused with with what what I post online and what I say and and I wouldn't ever want I'm quite lucky in some of the experiences I get to have with Harper but I just with kids I I I think I wouldn't ever want anyone to think you've got to spend loads and loads of money to make them happy all kids all they want is time all they want is time so you can like we've done so many things this weekend and it was we're so lucky and she got to meet the poor patrol and Andy and the odd socks and all these people but all she cared about was time with daddy like we were sat at the top of the Ferris wheel and it was just we was just stopped and it was up there and she just said Daddy this is just kitchen roll just kitchen rolls they have so much fun with it won't they to use that and they just love it. It's the imagination yeah yeah exactly kids that's uh kids these days kids these days mate difference when we grow up though but that's a whole other thing I'm not even gonna go into that whole other thing that's another episode um Elliot thank you so much for coming onto the podcast it was a pleasure it was a pleasure meeting you and yeah but stay in touch I think we've got a lot in common and my inbox will always be open I love 100% mate I'll I'll I'll email you my number and uh we'll keep in touch it's definitely not therapy I mean just what a what a lovely man what a genuinely lovely man. I think it's it's it's a hard thing to navigate when you go through a relationship breakup and there's children involved it's hard and I think men do struggle with it more than women that's not trying to be sexist or any other way other than just saying what it is it is what it is and it's tough and we just do our best we do our best and that's it but yeah I really appreciate Elliot coming and sharing his story. And if you're sat there now and you're going through anything similar to what either myself or Elliot have been through just just remember you're not alone and actually time is a healer. You might not want to hear it right now but time is a healer and things do get better.