When Duty Becomes Avoidance: Matt’s Journey Through ADHD, Anxiety, and Repairing Home

A firefighter sits down and opens up about the story most men avoid: how quick decisions, hidden anxiety, and a distorted sense of duty can slowly pull a family apart. Matt’s journey begins with easy credit at eighteen and the adrenaline of dodging consequences, moves through bailiffs at the door and a marriage strained by inconsistency, and eventually ends up in a quiet room where an ADHD diagnosis finally connects the dots.

We dive into the fine line between serving and avoiding, how being “needed” at work can become a shield from being present at home, and why a leadership coach’s blunt warning—“passionate but inconsistent”—hit harder than any siren. Matt resisted medication for two years, relying on discipline, gym sessions, and sleep routines. His breakthrough was simple but profound: fewer mental tabs open, a calm conversation in the car, and a dog walk that felt like peace instead of pressure. The real shift came in a small moment—his daughter asking to play cricket and Matt saying yes without a battle inside. That quiet yes rewired everything.

We explore ADHD beyond the clichés—its overlap with anxiety and low mood, the chemistry behind hyperfocused kitchen renovations and abandoned skirting boards, and the emotional cost of living life in a loop of good intentions and disappointment. There’s no hero arc here, just real steps forward: honest check-ins, simpler routines, water and protein, medication when willpower ran dry, and the courage to be radically honest at home. Alongside Matt’s story, I share the shock of losing an online partnership, rebuilding identity in public, and staying committed to the work you love when everyone has an opinion.

If you’ve ever felt unreliable despite trying your best, or guilty for missing the moments that matter most, this conversation gives you language, insight, and practical tools to reset and begin again.

What we cover:

• how impulsive money decisions spiralled into long-term pressure
 • how COVID blurred the line between service and avoidance
 • where trust cracked in marriage—and the cost of inconsistency
 • what ADHD looked like in real daily life
 • why private diagnosis changed everything
 • how stimulants improved focus, patience, and presence
 • the guilt of missed moments—and the path to repair
 • reframing “passionate but inconsistent” at work and home
 • hyperfocus wins vs dopamine droughts
 • identity, loss, and rebuilding confidence after going public

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with someone who needs to hear it, and leave a quick review—your words help the next person find theirs.

Get yourself a quote. What have you got to lose?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 0:02
Welcome to another episode of Definitely Not Therapy. In this episode, I'll be speaking to Matt. I don't know what I can and what I can't share about Matt because we've traded messages back and forth for quite some time now. So I'll see how much of his story Matt is prepared to share.
SPEAKER_01: 0:19
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 0:21
How are you anyway?
SPEAKER_00: 0:22
I'm very good, mate. I'm very good. Yeah, I've snuck out to my mate's pub today before it opens. Because I thought I was chatting to the wife and I was like, I might go and do that Dan Lawrence podcast over at the pub. I was like, just because my my computer set up at home is in the new kitchen, and you know, it's summer holidays, the kids will be in and out. I just thought this would be this would be better. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: 0:44
No, I can relate to that. My little harper was um she was playing, she was in here yesterday, pressing all the buttons on this. She loves because I've got this I don't know what it's called, like a roadcaster thing. Yeah. And it's got all the colourful buttons, and each one does like a different sound. So she likes coming in, putting the headphones on and pushing all the buttons, which is lovely to watch, but then I have to reset everything back up and I'm like, and I don't know what I'm doing, Matt. I'll be honest, I don't know. This thing terrifies me. Look, from your so obviously I send like a little research sheet out, so there isn't I haven't really got much. I've got a few little bits that I wrote down from yours, but really it's gonna you know I don't really know your story, so it's and and these episodes are about you guys, you know. I think the the reason I wanted to do this podcast was because I was spending a lot of time talking to people in my DMs, and I was I was getting a lot of people that kind of need help, need support, need someone to talk to, and I just feel like there's only one, there's only so much you can do with talking one-on-one in a kind of DM capacity because you're you're helping that person, but for that short period of time, and I just thought there's there's a disconnect, and how can I make this bigger and better and help more people? And I just thought, you know what? By talking to real people that have had real struggles in their lives and that have had bad times and also had good times, and sharing that, so actually, that person that sat there thinking I haven't got anyone or I'm on my own. Well, do you know what they can listen to this podcast or they can watch this podcast and they can actually maybe relate to something that you might have been through or something that I might have been through. I do find you know, I do have to be vulnerable on these because I'm sat here expecting people like you, Matt, to kind of open up and you know, be honest and be raw, and I can't sit there with a wall up. So it's there's been some interesting episodes, some really interesting episodes, but the whole goal is to spread some awareness, to to make someone sit there and feel less alone. So I appreciate you taking your time out of the day, Matt, to come and to come and talk to me on the podcast.
unknown: 3:01
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 3:02
I know there's something niggling in the back of your mind right now, isn't there, where you're trying to concentrate on this podcast, on this very, very good podcast, this very engaging podcast. But you're thinking, I wish we had a new bathroom, I wish we had a new kitchen, wish we had a new games room. Well, this week's episode of Definitely Not Therapy is sponsored by Bell Trades. We've all been there, haven't we? We've sat there and we thought, right, next job, we'll get the kitchen done. Next job, we'll get the bathroom done. And we just never get round to it. Why do we do that? We just we never get round to it. Do it, now is the time. Contact Bell Trades and they can help. It might not cost as much as you think. Bell Trades have a very simple philosophy to turn your house into a home that you're proud of. Not where you can think, I wish we had a new bathroom, I wish we had a new kitchen, wish we had a new games room or man cave, wish our bedroom was nice. Bell Trades don't need to start from scratch. You don't have to have an entire new room. You might be thinking, I just wish this room was finished. They can look at the room and they can see the potential and they can work with you on it. Belltrades are specialists in bathrooms, kitchens, and entire renovations. You will not be disappointed. And if you think, oh Dan, I really, really, really want it done. I really want to get that bathroom finished, or I really want to get a new kitchen, but I just haven't got the money. Life's hard at the moment, life's expensive at the moment. But there are some really, really reasonable finance options available. Go check their website, it's www.beltrades.co.uk. Or why don't you check them out on Instagram? It's at bell underscore underscore trades. It's a double underscore. On their Instagram page, they've got some great before and after shots. So you can see the work they do. You can see the quality. And the beauty is they cover the entire South East London as well as Kent. So if you're one of them people, you're sat there, you're in South East London, you're in Kent, you're thinking, oh my bathroom. I don't like going in there because it stresses me out. www.beltrades.co.uk. Bell Trades have helped me bring my vision to life. My vision of this podcast, they've helped me by sponsoring. Let them help bring your vision to life in your home. Because home isn't just where you live, it's how you live. Get yourself a quote. What have you got to lose, eh? Anyway, let's get back to the podcast, shall we?
SPEAKER_01: 5:34
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_00: 5:36
I was thinking about this and how we'd it's really difficult in it. I mean, I'm 37 now. And if I was to go from, I don't know, stay the day I turned 18 to now, I'd probably have you here for about three days. But I quite like to sort of put a break in it now because of where I've got to. So I mean I can give you a brief overview. Not so much, it's not so much a mental health side, but you could some of it could be typical young adult stuff. You know, I turned 18 and this was before the crash. So it must have been 2007, 2006. You know, as soon as I turn 18, a week later, I get two letters through the post from my bank. One's a 500 pound overdraft, another one's a 2,000 pound credit card. You know, I had no idea. I mean, it you know, school they don't they don't teach you about real life, they teach you how to get a job, and uh so you know, within a matter of weeks I'd absolutely max them out.
SPEAKER_02: 6:37
I think I I can definitely relate to that as it's because you're not taught these things, and you go into a shop and you're naive, and you're uh you've just turned 18, and that and they're like, Oh, do you want you can just get one of our credit cards or one of our store cards and it's like, oh, I won't have to spend any of my money today? Yeah, I'll definitely do that. And then before you know it, you're in that situation.
SPEAKER_00: 6:57
Yeah, it's one of my bugbears with uh what they teach in schools and the curriculum because obviously uh it's a different story. Me and my wife have on and off talked about, you know, would our girls be better having a you know, being homeschooled, but that's for another day. Yeah, you know, they they get all of a sudden an 18-year-old don't know anything about real life. I've been given a credit card and a£500 overdraft, and that was a I mean yeah, 2,500 quid in total is a lot of money now. But back then it was even more so, you know, didn't have a clue about interest rates, didn't have a clue about how it would work paying it back, and that's sort of where it all started, really, in terms of my impulsive behaviours, you know, getting in debt. I moved house numerous because I moved out when I was 17 with my cousin, which was a brilliant laugh. But you know, you look at what kids are doing now, living at home till they're 30 odd to get money for a deposit, all that sort of stuff, and you know, I still play a bit of football and I speak to some of the young lads there, and oh, you know what? Oh, I'm just saving for this. I'm like, who are these people? Like life's just changed, but that carried on really from when I was 18. I still have some traits now, but I suppose if I fast forward to, you know, let's say the beginning of COVID, you know, I've got two children by then, married, but the whole of that 12 years or more is littered with impulsive behaviour, you know, bad decisions, getting in debt, moving house, debt collectors turning up to the door, you know, and you know, it's like on occasion, debt collectors turned up at home when I had young babies and I was at work, you know, 45 minutes away.
SPEAKER_03: 8:36
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 8:36
And you got your what and you got your wife calling you going, Matt, and you me knowing a bit more about money and how debt collectors operate by this point, it's easy for me to over the phone and say, just don't let them in. But you know, to a vulnerable woman and a newborn baby, that's you know, it's pretty poor.
SPEAKER_02: 8:58
It must have been quite scary as well for for her, as well, in that yeah because they can be quite for they can be quite forceful.
SPEAKER_00: 9:05
That like oh yeah. My worst one was council tax. I used to I I used to be a nightmare for paying my council tax. And I don't know if you've ever I mean councils in general, but the the debt collection agencies that the council tax use are horrendous. I mean, they are horrible shit. Oh really? They really are, yeah. Yeah, so we uh you know we'd had our ups and downs with the with the with the money, you know, relationship as well. You know, my my the way I used to behave.
SPEAKER_02: 9:35
Well, that must have put a strain on the relationship as well. I mean, and and and listen, lots of things will always put a strain on a relationship, and yeah, there's some relationships that could withstand a lot more than others, clearly, but you know, that the that is something. Money is is a big thing, and obviously having that extra pressure of debt collectors turn up must have put a strain, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 9:55
Yeah. And uh yeah, and it was you know, it's uh it is a bit of a miracle, really, that you know, we're we're at we're we're at where we are at now. You know, it's been a bloody long journey, and we we reached COVID, and I got made furlough for my I was electrician at the time. I'd been in retained firefighting for about two years at this point and loved it. Like it was really good. I mean, that enabled we when it was about when I was 30, so about seven years ago. Okay. It's just before, just before then, me and Vec had a sort of right, it's now whenever, you know, you've got to get on top of these issues. And I sort of set myself a goal of well, I don't want to rent anymore, I want to buy a house. So I used a financial advisor, and he basically checked in with me every three months, and I had to send him my bank details, sorry, my bank statements, and the whole goal was to get a mortgage at the end of it. And there was a commission at the end of it if they found us a mortgage and all this sort of stuff. But for about 18 months he done that, and uh whatever the fee was when we eventually got a mortgage, I didn't care. I think it was about£2,000. But I was just like, you've you know, I've got a house, I own something, you know. Up until this point, all my money was just being thrown down the drain.
SPEAKER_02: 11:13
It's it's an incredible feeling, you know, that first time that you own your own your own property and you've really worked hard for it as well.
SPEAKER_00: 11:21
Yeah, so you know, we got the house, brilliant. You know, I I've I've managed to do something and you know get some money together and but and buy a house, brilliant. So we moved into the house. We I was saying I was invited when I got furloughed for COVID, so it's not long after we moved into that house. And obviously it turns your life up, it turned everyone's life upside down, and we had my two girls must have been five and seven at the time. And I thought, amazing, all this time off. And I don't know if you remember that first that first lockdown, we had scorching weather, it was beautiful. Yep. And Beck was homeschooling the girls, she was doing all that, and I very quickly realized, oh my god, what am I gonna do? I can't be at home every day. I I've worked since I was 17, 18, five days a week, sometimes six. And I'm like, I don't, I know, I can't, I can't stay at home with you and the girls in the nicest way possible. I can't I can't do that. So I I was still retained at the time. That's what that's the point I was getting to. You'll notice I had dot and dab between uh different points. Yeah, I I was still retained at the time, so I was one of the only sort of critical workers that was still going out on fire calls and things like that. But it also meant that I had access to our local fire station. We had a little gym there, and so that's what I did. I started working out every day. Every day I'd go down there. That was my I'm very all or nothing. So that's what I did. I was like, well, I've got to do that, I've got to keep myself busy, you know.
SPEAKER_02: 12:59
So that was your escape then from I guess lockdown and everything that was going on in the world?
SPEAKER_00: 13:06
Yeah. You know, and we all we we had some we lost one of our firefighters, who was like the dad of the station to COVID, which is sort of what made it even worse, because there was a moment when we, you know, we did lose someone from the fire station. So I wanted to be there for a lot of the crew down there. I think we all we all went down there and met each other. I remember there was one night when this is all going on and back, and one of the girls was really quite poorly at home. But because I had made plans to go and make sure these guys are right, because I was older than some of the lads. I remember leaving my wife and and I think it was my oldest Amelia to go down to the fire station. Because in my head, it's like, well, no, I've committed to go and do that. And now you look back at it, it's like I just walked out the door during the middle of COVID because my wife and my wife and daughter, as well. You know, don't get me wrong, we had lost one of our firefighters. That is tough.
SPEAKER_02: 13:58
Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm really I'm really sorry to hear that. I think you know that must have been a hard, a hard thing to deal with for all of you there.
SPEAKER_00: 14:04
Yeah, it was, and you know, any five any any moment of service, you're sort of a bit of a second family, but especially a small station like Sandy, I think we had 14 firefighters there, and yeah, it was tough. We had a couple of young retained firefighters there who were trained by him when they were cadets, you know, so it was really almost like father figure to a lot of people, anyway. That that sort of we we got past that, but it became very clear that I'd completely shut off my family during COVID. You know, in a time where I could have an opportunity to see them learn, see them grow up, I was out of there. Yeah, you know, I was completely avoiding. Not I never thought I was avoiding it at the moment. I was just super focused on I've just got to keep fit, I've got to do this, that, and it all came to a head, and I that is probably I was down, I can't think when the first year of COVID was. Was it 2018, 2018?
SPEAKER_02: 15:04
No, I think it was 2019. Yeah, it was 2019, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00: 15:08
Yeah. That is probably the first year that I've thought of the term mental health. So I didn't know about it beforehand, but when I first thought, why do I stress you know, my mood goes up really high, it goes down really low. You know, I've always had White Coat syndrome, but I was also getting anxiety. And we me and my wife talked about it because it it was causing problems in our relationship. And I thought, right, what can I do to, you know, spread awareness about this and and talk about it. Not shall I get some help? It's more what can I do to spread awareness about it? So I started a podcast, I'm not sure if I mentioned that. I think you I remember sending you some messages before when when things had just happened between you and your and your previous partner. And so it was called Boop Podcast. I I I used my connections with local authority fire brigade quite well, and you know, I interviewed my chief, interviewed some of my firefighters. I I it was good. It was really good. I I started it with my mate, and um it became apparent quite soon after that that he he I mean he really struggled with his mental health and he couldn't commit to it. And I was very much like, this is my baby I've created, you know, it's gotta be every week. We need to do an episode, we need to do this, that, and the other. And I was impulsive. There's me buying all the equipment, doing all this, yeah, all or nothing. I've got to get all the equipment. And so I did I so I did all that and and it was good, you know.
SPEAKER_02: 16:41
I enjoyed it. I was gonna say, you just talking about it, you've got a smile on your face, you know, so it's you're obviously remembering.
SPEAKER_00: 16:46
Do you know why? It's because I my wife talks about it now and she was like, you know, you should start doing a bit again. Which considering the pain and suffering all this has called, not not just the podcast, but me as a whole. Uh to her to turn around and be like, you know, now's the time. Now's the time you could do it. And the reason I say that is I was doing that for a little while. I managed to get myself a job at after I was furloughed, I moved to Cambridge Airport fire service. Very small airport, a lot of military aircraft, sort of a maintenance airfield. And then somehow somehow, and I still have to pinch myself sometimes now, I managed to get to um I don't know, mate. Apologies. I somehow managed to get a job at Luton Airport, which in in the aviation world, when you talk to other firefighters and stuff like that, they're like, oh my god, that's the best, that's the best airport you can work for. Oh really? It's on my doors. Yeah, it's on my doors. It's the it's the best paid, or one of the best paid in the country. Really good company, you know, they've got a really good CI uh CEO, really forward thinking. They look after, you know, I'd never anyway, I got there and I've never worked for a place like it. You know, they you get little gifts throughout the year, whether it be employee appreciation day or, you know, vouchers at Christmas, you know. I'd never worked anywhere like that. And it was like, and uh you get a profit share every year.
SPEAKER_02: 18:20
I I don't think many people have worked somewhere like that, Matt. I don't that doesn't just sound surreal to me.
SPEAKER_00: 18:25
Yeah, and it it was bizarre because it's amazing to see what the effect when a company looks after its employees that well, you see all the employees pulling together and everyone's got a smile on their face, everyone's trying to make the experience better for passengers coming through the airport. And that's the way a lot of people should take into how businesses should run because actually the positive impact you get from that is amazing. Back on point. So everything was going well, you know. I was best paid job I'd ever got into. We'd got the house, we'd got through COVID. But my mood was very much still really, really high, really, really low. At this point, I was on Certraline, so I had a small dose of searchraline, which was for anxiety. My issue with getting any help from a doctor or medication was my white coat syndrome. I'm like, I don't want, you know, if that's gonna fundamentally change me or it's gonna give me a high heart rate, or this thing, no, I don't want it. So I was on suraline, which which helped with the anxiety, and you know, I was constantly trying to figure out how my brain works. What does it need? Do I need to work out regularly? You know, am I sleeping my life? It was all up and down. I'm trying to think the the relationship between me and my wife for various reasons was just fractured, whether that be because of some of my impulsive behaviours that I had, but also maybe the past, you know. I think there was a lot of trauma on Beck Beck is her name, on Beck's side over the years, and ultimately that had affected her trust, you know, her belief in me. And that was probably really hard to overcome. So then even when I I maybe I do something that I don't know, maybe it looked like I was up to something or or something like that, it caused huge trust trust issues. So it was always coming back up, it was always being brought back up, and that caused arguments and all sorts of things, and we sort of just got further and further apart. So about three must be coming up three years ago, we had a holiday booked. My dad lives down in Dorset, near Lyon Regis. Nice plot of land he's got down there, and we were gonna go down there for a week. But before we went, it was very much the conversations we were having were I don't want this to end, but I don't know how to fix it. Right. That was that was sort of how our conversations were going. And then we talked about we're meant to be gone on holiday in a few days, and I said, Look, I think we should go. Uh, you know, the kids deserve a holiday, so I think we should go. So we did, and it was horrific. Oh, really? So my my dad's got a nice plot of land he's building a house on. Uh he's built a summer house that he lives in whilst he's building the house uh with his partner, and then he's got a big caravan that was there when he bought the plot, and it's a lovely caravan, and it's like we had our own garden and everything.
SPEAKER_03: 21:55
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 21:56
So we were staying in that. And I can't, I I'll be perfectly honest with you, I can't remember how obviously the conversations continued while we were on holiday about where we were at.
SPEAKER_02: 22:06
Can I ask how long you two had been together at this this point? How long are you uh you've been married for?
SPEAKER_00: 22:13
So it's our 10-year anniversary in December this year. So yeah, 2000, December 5th, 2005, we got married. Uh 2005, 2015, sorry. God, the years are just flying by. But we've been together since we were both 2021. Okay. We've known each other so long time. But what came with that is obviously a lot of ups and downs, and you know, the fact that we got through some of the earlier stuff is a lot down to on her part, is amazing, really. She could have quite happily like, you know, skipped off into the sunset. I I I seem to remember a conversation uh when we were there, we were sitting in this caraban, the girls were asleep. I'm not sure it was something along the lines of, you know, can you tell me you love me or something that Beth asked me? And I just I could I couldn't. I don't I don't it was such a bad bad moment and that was like that was it. It's like a switch went and we were just separate. Wow. And we're then four four and a half hours away from home. Absolutely heartbroken. The kids haven't got a clue, except you know, they over the next couple of days, you know, they're seeing their mum upset and it's not really talking. And you know, basically escalated so quickly to like let's just get home. I'll go and live at my dad's a local place, which was his girlfriend's place, where she wasn't really living there. And it just snowballed and because Beck like any mum, her first thought was protect me and the kids. I mean, she'd been building towards this moment for years, and she'd kept pulling back and letting herself back in, uh letting herself, you know, keep the family together. But this was a really yeah, it was horrific. And and I was a bit lost for words because I'd already we'd obviously I said to you already, we were saying I don't know how to fix it.
SPEAKER_03: 24:18
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 24:19
But you know, it was always uh mudslinging, you know, uh twisting that it would be and rightly so Beck would be saying, you know, it's it's X to Y Z. And I'd get defensive and say, well, no, it's this, this, this, you know, from the and that's how it was, and it just wasn't getting anywhere. So I stayed at my dad's for a few weeks, and then it was I kept trying to reach out saying, you know, we still need to, you know, we need to talk about this, we need to, you know, we need to get on top of it. But in that moment, she was very much it's done that.
SPEAKER_02: 24:55
What what could I ask? What was going through your mind? So the first night you've moved out, you've gone to stay your the the separate house. Did you f was it kind of did you regret anything? Did you feel like this is a mistake, or did you feel like okay, I can breathe now? Like, what was the kind of thought process?
SPEAKER_00: 25:18
In all honesty, I think it just felt like panic. Because all of a sudden it was like there's no two in and froin anymore. She's done. And I'm like, wow. You know, and then you start to have those realisations of what life's gonna be like. Yeah. You know, I'm not gonna see my girls every day, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna have a relationship anymore, you know, and um there's a there I I there was probably moments of peace where I'm like, oh but I could do anything now, you know. But the majority of the the feeling was like confusion, panic, because I still hadn't really faced reality of like what is the what is the core issue of why I behave the way I behave with my mood swings, you know. And I I then moved I moved to uh at someone's annex next door to my mum's house, actually. Lovely lady, and you know, she was very much one of them like catching hand things, didn't have to do anything, you know, just got this place and it was a bit old-fashioned, clean and everything, but old-fashioned, and I was there for about eight months. And that was probably the worst eight months I've ever had, ever. And it's funny because you don't I don't I don't think I realised until I I didn't I didn't realise until after just how bad that was. I mean, I had you know moments where you know I was sending back videos in tears, you know, trying to get her to listen. Yeah. And she'd completely shut it off, you know, trying to get her to understand, trying to get her to and and some of it was probably again it it was probably trying to shock her to see that I I need her. Do you know what I mean? Some of it was probably like about me.
SPEAKER_02: 27:33
But you know, I I think men do that. Uh you're not the first person that said that, even on this this podcast, you're not the per first person that said that, and I think I I've definitely been there. I I do think that men and women deal with this completely differently. You mentioned it a second ago that that you know, Beck, your wife would have been building up to this moment in her head, probably for months, maybe even a a year or so. And again, a lot of the women that I've spoken to, that is the case. They would have been in this mindset for a year. So actually, when it happens, they're ready, they're ready because they've already shut it all off in their mind, and that's why it's really hard then because men, we're not like that. We we we're blind, we're blindsided, and we we don't know how to deal with that and how to process that. I mean, obviously, I can only speak for myself and a few of the other people that I've spoken to and messages I've received, but yeah, you you kind of just think it it just hits you, and you're like, How do I process this when you see the other person has already processed it and it's like you're not even in their mind anymore for and that's a hard pill to swallow, I think.
SPEAKER_00: 28:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it's quite funny. I do a lot of work now with um, and I like I said to you at the beginning of this podcast, I'm an open book now, and if I can do that with my colleagues and and you know talk openly, I'd rather do that. And it's funny because I've got well, bless him, he's gone now, but I've I had two Siberian huskies, Keisha and George. We lost lost Keisha a year before we separated for that sort of eight months to a year, and then I had George, and he was my he was my best mate. We rescued him when they were 10 years old. So he was he was getting on at this point, and he used to stay with me at this place I was staying at most nights. And I used to it was so weird waking up in the morning and not having to do anything because I I work shifts, so the way my I I do 24-hour shifts at Loon Airport and then I have three days off. So effectively I work two, 24 hours a week, which seemed gives me loads of time off. Yeah, lucky yeah. So I was at yeah, I know. I was I was at at this bloody annex, and George was there always, you know. He'd he's such a chill dog, you know, curl up on the sofa next to me. And it's only now being able to because I've always said whenever I've been bad, whenever my mental health I've always said I've never thought about suicide. I it just wouldn't cross my mind because I've got kids and I wouldn't do that.
SPEAKER_03: 30:07
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 30:07
I just wouldn't do that. And also, you know, I'm a wuss already. So I think that takes it actually takes a lot of bottle to do that. It really does. It's not an easy thing to do. You've got to truly believe, I think, that and I think a lot of people do that that do sort of complete suicide is that they've they genuinely think that everyone else everyone will be happier if they're not here and their life will be easier. So I I'd never thought that, but do you know what it's quite funny looking back on things now and going, I don't know just how dark it would have got if I didn't have my dog. Oh really? Yeah. And that's not to say that I would definitely have those feelings, but it was such a horrific time. You know, I lost loads of weight and I wasn't doing anything. It was just purely through stress. And, you know, the girls would come over, Bet was it was it was amicable to a certain extent. You know, I would probably try and bombard her when she did come over to bring the kids over, whatever, and you know, try and but she didn't want to have those conversations. I I I can't remember the exact point that I decided to stop trying to wee. This is what it you know, this is what it's like stop trying to weasel my way back into a life like that, and actually let's try and find out what the hell is going on with me. Why am I and why am I like this? So we we are very lucky as I said with this job, but you can pay for one of the work benefits is you can get boob healthcare.
SPEAKER_03: 31:42
Okay.
SPEAKER_00: 31:44
So ADHD had been mentioned to me a few times when I was younger, a bit more when I was older. And I it's it it's funny, you talk about stigma in mental health. You you I hate that term ADHD, because it it in no way explains just how complex that disorder is. But you just you've only got to do a little bit of research into it to see that actually it's it's one of the more severe disorders because it can overlap with borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, bipolar. They all can overlap with ADHD. What I do like is that term of the spectrum now. Yeah. Um and the reason I like it is because we're every everybody on this planet is on the spectrum. So the side that I like about it is, and the way I used to, the way I do to talk about it to other people now is it for me, we're all we've all got our traits, and you could you can list them down as a as a disorder if you want. But I would rather say we're all on the spectrum, we've all got traits, you know, some of us are more egotistical, some of us are more humble, whatever. But actually, it's when those traits start having a negative effect on your life, that is when you need to act. So I I went through boop healthcare, and bearing in mind, you know, the the time scale to get these ADHD assessments was about three, three and a half years. Oh wow.
unknown: 33:24
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 33:24
If you go to HS, you're you're looking at that now. Because people are are seeing these traits, and obviously it's being taught a lot more about now. And people are throwing their kids and and adults are throwing themselves into getting these assessments done. So I went through BUPA healthcare, spoke to the mental health team. Now they don't normally pay for ADHD assessments, but what they will pay for is if it's attached to a mental health condition. Well, I was had the doctor diagnosed me with depression and anxiety. So I was very lucky. I managed to get that assessment done. And it took about seven weeks. Okay. And this is the I mean, private healthcare, you know, if if anyone ever has the opportunity to get it, I'm especially the environment the country's in now, I I mean I jump at the chance.
SPEAKER_03: 34:13
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 34:14
So I I I got this assessment done, diagnosed with ADHD, and typical me with white coat syndrome. I was like, well, I don't want medication, you know. I just, you know, I now I know. Now I can work on work on myself, I can start to understand myself.
SPEAKER_02: 34:32
So you thought it was just gonna be enough to know that you've got a diagnosis for it now, and actually now you can manage it yourself because you you know what it is, you know why you might your your brain might flip flit around, and you can train yourself to focus, maybe, or yeah, and it there is evidence from my the the time from then until about what we are now, three months I've been on medication, that it works.
SPEAKER_00: 34:59
I mean, to for some people, not everyone. Me and Beck, it sort of just naturally happened, you know. We started rebuilding a little bit. I was still living in my separate place, but I started spending a bit more time at home, and I think the turning point was Christmas. We and I used to ruin all these things, you know, with Christmas because the girls would be all excited to get all the stuff out and do stuff early, and I was just miserable. I mean, which I know a lot of blokes can't be like that, where they're like, God, can we just focus on one thing at a time? But I was just I just used to put a downer on a lot of things, and it came to Christmas, and I I really like tried to be present and slow my brain down and actually be in the moment, you know. You you talk about being on autopilot, that's one of my things I used to be on all the time, you know, sitting on my phone while the girls are doing something really nice in the living room and not even noticing what they're doing, you know. So all these things, you know, I missed. And so we had this Christmas together and it and it was lovely. And gradually over the next sort of four months, we we started rebuilding that relationship, but I had to go into it with a completely different mindset, and that was I had to be an open book, and that goes even down to the little things of like I I used to hate anyone going on my phone, you know. So for reasons from our past 10 to 15 years, I think something would be found on my phone that shouldn't be on there. Yeah, and uh the the reality is there was actually nothing ever to find normally. You know, there was occasions in our history, yes, but that ultimately it was then it it reached a point in our relationship where actually it was just a mental block for me. I was like, I don't want you on my phone. And of course, with the previous, it had done so much damage that unless I broke that barrier down and was just like, do what you want, you know. Which and it's funny because you know, she never has the urge to go on my phone anymore because she knows it's open to her, whatever she wants it. So funny, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02: 37:06
It's quite a feeling though. I think it's quite a I don't know if invigorating is quite the right word, but I see I remember in all my previous relationships, I'd always been quite I was the same, I was quite protective, even in long-term relationships. I was and I'd never had anything to hide, but I was protective over my phone. That was my phone, that was my space, I didn't want you know anyone going through it. And it was only in my last relationship I was completely letting letting my guard down, and I didn't and you can do what you want, because I knew I I knew me, I knew there would never be anything to find, so I had no reason to, and it I felt good about that, but that was the first time that I've ever and that was what 35 when we got together, so up to the the age of 30. Although when I was younger, we didn't have mobile phones when I was young, so you know, from the age of about probably 20 to 35, but I'd always been protective over it.
SPEAKER_00: 37:57
Yeah, yeah, and it it's it is like you say it's invigorating, it's it's it just takes a strain off you, like you know it's just so easy all of a sudden, and during that time, it's you'll have to forgive me because so much has happened, you know. Um and I worry about leaving stuff out, but that's just life, you know. I had my so at this time, how old's Amelia now, my oldest? She's 12, 13 next month. So she was probably 10, 11 at this point. And during all this time, during the breakup and the separation, you know, I had some real home truths given to me by that girl. I mean, she is as strong as they come, mind you, and uh, which is funny because she's the softest, sweetest kid ever. But she really, you know, put me to the sword with a lot of things, you know. What things that she remembers from when she was growing up or behaviors? Yeah, making promises to the to her and her sister that, you know, we'll do things and then not following through on them, you know, my mood being up and down. And it it it's that point of they ne they I'll tell you the term that my wife would probably use the most, and the girls would, is walking on HLs. If they sensed my mood wasn't right, and it, you know, I was never physically anything like that, that wasn't me at all, and it never would be, but you just never knew what version of me you were gonna get. So moving to a point where we were rebuilding, I knew I had to be completely open, and I also knew that if I wasn't great, had to tell them that as well. Yeah, you know, if I if I'm yeah, if I'm struggling, you know, I've got a lot on, then tell them that. Don't just do what blokes do and go, no, I'm fine, and just carry on because it, you know, they can tell. And so we so we started rebuilding and it's been good, you know, work's been good. I've had my you know, my fire service manager and my station manager had put me forward for a so I'm just a firefighter at the moment, and the way the rank structure works is firefighter crew manager, watch manager, okay, station manager. During that time when I was in my separation period with Beck, I'd hide away at work. You know, you wouldn't we've got a big station that's up near the runway, so we're sort of on a bit of an island, we get left to our own devices, we look after our own station, we clean it, all that stuff. But once the jobs were done, I'd disappear into we've got a little room there called the snug, and it's where there was a couple of computers in there and some recliners. And I you literally wouldn't see me. Once the jobs were done, I'd do my role and then I'd just be unless we got a call out for a medical or something like that, you'd I'd hide in there. And I was like, well, I'm getting good players of firefighter, this is it. I'll just, you know, I'm just gonna plod along at this run.
SPEAKER_02: 40:48
Did your colleagues know what you were going through at all?
SPEAKER_00: 40:52
Yeah, yeah, they did. You know, we got a mixture of so there's eight of us on any one shift, and then two normally on leave, so there's ten per watch. I mean, I'm close with all of them, but yeah, there was two, two or three in particular who wouldn't always do the check-ins as well. They'd come and see me and be like, oh, what's getting them? And and we do the same, you know, vice versa. Now, I know one of the ones who I'm very close with has has got a partner who's not brilliant. Sorry, an ex-partner who's not brilliant, and he's amazing with his kids, you know, he's just trying to focus on them. But and that's what we do, that's what firefighters do. That's what we, you know, when you're in little crews like that, the camaraderie is is really tight-knit. So when my station manager came up to me and said, I've been asked to put some names forward for a crew manager's course. I think you should go for it. It was a bit of a like, really? Me? Are you sure? Like, are you asking the right person? So that was the first thing, which was mega for me, because I was like, maybe there's something here. Maybe I'm not just with the ADHD as well. I don't take in theoretical information very well. It's sort of in one ear out the other. Practically, get me to do the job, and I'm, you know, I'm a first thing. And then more recently, my fire service manager, who's the sort of top dog, he'd come to me and said, Oh, that course we're running, the it's the company-wide course, they brought some like life coaching, and they've put together a course called an impact development force, and it's about finding your potential, and it maps out basically where you could be by retirement age. It sort of looks at what your brain couldn't handle complexity, complexity-wise. It's uh it's an ongoing course. So we it was three lots of two days looking at behaviours, performance, and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02: 42:44
It sounds really interesting, by the way.
SPEAKER_00: 42:46
It really honestly, it is it is the most I mean the first two days, you meet I'm in this group of people, so I think there were 12 of us in our cohort, and they're all from different areas of the airport. So you don't get, you know, I think we've got 850 employees, so I didn't know everyone. I've only been at this company three and a half years. So there's people in there from finance, you know, really smart people, you know, some of them really young. We had a we had a there was a 22-year-old in there saying he wants a£1 million portfolio by the time he's 30. And I'm like, I'm 37. What am I doing? So, but they got this coach they brought in was absolutely fantastic. His name's Evan Gillespie, he's brilliant, and he um he basically broke everyone down in the first day so that everyone was really vulnerable. Like yeah, and it didn't feel like he'd done anything special, it was just little tasks you'd done, little conversations you had in the group. I've never felt so tight-knit to a group after 12 hours, it was crazy. Anyway, it's been a it has been a fantastic course, and it all of a sudden I'd reached this level where I'm like, bloody hell, I could I could do something with my career. Life at home has been really good. So all positive, but I'm trying to get back on track in my brain. So earlier this year, me and Beck decided there was one thing we wanted to do left in the house, and that's put a new kitchen in.
SPEAKER_03: 44:16
Okay.
SPEAKER_00: 44:17
Obviously, I used to do electrical work. Also, I've done some house renovations with my dad when we're younger, and I was like, well, I've I'm gonna do most of it, I've said. I've said um I won't do the boarding or the plastering, but I'll do the electrics, the plum and you know, the the and I'll installing kitchen units will do all that. So I went from having an old battered kitchen, stripped the walls bare to like just the timbers, and having the kitchen rebuilt in eight weeks. Wow. I was literally hyper focused, ADHD brained. As soon as I got back from shift, eight o'clock in the morning, I'm getting the tools out, and the kit the girls didn't know what the hell was going on, you know. And yeah, we get you know, it was amazing, got it all done, but then there's the snagging to do, right? So forgot all the snagging to do, putting the skirtings on, stuff like that, and that was like the final bit, they're still not done to this day, as you point out, which is you know, three months later. But I reached the point, uh Beck's like, can we get these little jobs done? I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they offer me nothing, they offer me no dopamine, and that's what I've I've sort of learned actually doing that kitchen in eight weeks. Maybe why I do the job I do, it was urgent, it needed to be done. We had no kitchen, we had no sink, anything, you know. Yeah, so for eight weeks I was motoring, I could just keep doing it, and I'm just getting dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, you know, it's just amazing. But then you get to all the little crappy jobs you have to do, and it was like, well, they don't really offer me nothing, and then you start procrastinating, and then you just don't get anything done, and then you feel crap about it.
SPEAKER_02: 45:50
So it's literally like a drug, isn't it? Because you have the high, and and they and you know, they say ADHD it is a it's a superpower, isn't it? Because you can use it to hyper focus, but I guess that comes with a downside as well.
SPEAKER_00: 46:04
Yeah, and it and it the thing that was worse now is that because I was more self-aware, which is what I've been trying to learn to do over the last few years, I then didn't just think where it used to, where my behaviours just used to affect other people, it was now making my mental health bad again because I'm like, oh, when I'm when I when I don't feel like doing anything today or something like that, I then feel guilty, and then I feel bad that I'm not doing anything with myself. And I'm thinking, we had uh I'll just shoot back to that. That impact course I was on. He asked a question. He said, What's your brand at the moment? And what do you want your brand to be, or how do you want people to see you? And I wrote three words which were three words, what was it? Passionate. I know it's two words, passionate but inconsistent. That was my two words. What that's how you describe yourself as net as at that point, yeah, at that point, and that was only what are we talking two, two, three months ago. And he said, Oh Matt, you want to get on top of that? I said, What do you mean? And he went, if you're inconsistent, people will see you as unreliable. He goes, and if you're gonna be a manager that's unreliable, you won't get the team behind you. And he said, Do you know what? He goes, People would rather have a horrible, miserable boss every day than one that's miserable one day, really happy the next day, miserable one day, really happy the next day. Because they know what they're getting. They know what they're getting, they know where they stand. Yeah, and all of a sudden it was like something clicked in my brain. I was like, oh my god. I was like, that is what I'm like at home. That is what I can be like at work, which is why some people see potential in me and put me forward for things, and they're and I think they're right now. I do think that's good. I'm you know, I have got potential. But then if they saw me on the other side of that, they'd actually think the complete opposite. So I went home that night and I had a really honest conversation with Beck, and I said, Is this what my life's gonna be like? Where I can be really, really good, I can be amazing, I can do all these things, you know, I can take on the world, and then I can be completely flatlined and not do anything. I said, I don't want to be like that anymore. I said, I'm done. I've tried for two years to not have medication. I said, it's no good, it's not worth it, it's just not working for me. You know, because I'll all of a sudden I'm wanting to reach that potential.
SPEAKER_02: 48:36
Yeah. You've had a glimpse at it, and someone's shown a belief in you.
SPEAKER_00: 48:41
Yeah, so I I phoned back Booper. I said, Can I do this? Can I speak to the psychiatrist that diagnosed me? They said, Yeah, you'll have to do that if you want to get some some medication. So I phoned and had a good 45-minute consultation with him, just told him almost as if I'm telling you the story now. He said, Okay. He said, Maybe we'll um we'll try you on a stimulant. And all of a sudden, my white coat syndrome comes in. I'm like, Well, can't I try a non-stimulant? I don't want to try something that strong. And um he's like, the thing is, he said, the non-stimulants you have to take every day. He said, and they're not normally as effective. He said, whereas the stimulants, you can take them as and when you need them. So if I give you some long release ones, which last about 12 hours, he said, if you've got a really hectic couple of days coming up, really mentally tiring days, you might take them on them days, and then you might take them on the days off, and you might not take them on the days off. So I said, Oh, I went, okay, I'll just bit the bullet and I was like, I'll I'll do it. And then so I told Beck, you know, that I've got these tablets coming, and I was nervous about it. I said, I'm gonna stay at home the first day I take it, just in case there's any because there there is, you know, there there can be some nasty side effects for some people.
SPEAKER_03: 50:06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 50:07
So I got these little tablets and stayed at home. Took one of these tablets, they take about two hours to start working, and you don't know what to expect. I was thinking, am I gonna is it just gonna like make everything go quiet? You see reaction videos to people taking it's the El Vance, it's called by the way. So I took this tablet and it was very subtle actually. I was like, I don't really don't really notice anything. And the first little subtle notice I had was when Beck was talking to me in the car, and I could keep focused with her talking to me. And normally I go off on a tangent when people are talking to me. Like in my brain, I'm going, they might say a key word that triggers my memory about something, and I'll go off on a little tangent thinking about that, and then I'm back in the room. It's it's you know, it's and you've missed you've missed 30 seconds of conversation. Yeah, it's so bad. Um anyway, it was very subtle. I just noticed a few little things. Anyway, the next day I took I took it again, and then I started getting some symptoms, so I had really heavy shoulders. My head, it wasn't so much a headache, but the way I described to it, it's like you're wearing a motorbike helmet. Okay. But except except I wasn't. And I said to Beck at the end of that second day, I was like, this, yeah, this actually feels quite rough. I'm I'm not gonna take them tomorrow. So I had a day off. All those symptoms faded away, and I was like, okay, let's try again. Then you look at it. I don't know, you know, if you take medication for another moment, but any medication reacts with the body differently depending on what else you're putting in your body. So are you drinking enough water? Protein generally helps tablets manifest and do what they need to do in the body. And what just to give you a bit of background, this basically what this tablet does is it goes into your gut as one type of chemical, and then your gut turns it into a different chemical that basically gives you a constant supply of dopamine. Oh wow. Yeah, instead of you needing to hunt for that dopamine, it just gives you a nice level of dopamine. So yeah, I took it for so it was a Thursday and Friday, but with the next two days I retook this tablet. And honestly, I don't know if you've ever seen that old film Limitless. Yeah. That is what it was like. Was it? Yeah, it was amazing. Honestly, I I had I just had this day where I had a few jobs to do around the house and you know, a couple of things to do on the computer, tidy up, all this sort of stuff. And whereas before, it'd be like having loads of tabs open on it. It's the best way to describe it, loads of tabs open on your on your in-next floor or whatever. All of a sudden, it was like, no, no, you've just got three open. Just manage them. And it was like, right, I'll do that next, I'll do that next, I'll do that next. And it was like I had an extra engine put on my back, you know, that I could just keep going. So that was the one side of it, but also I've got a new dog. We lost both our huskies, unfortunately. We've got a new husky Akita puppy, she's 18 months old. The new, the new love of my life. And I'd taken her out for a walk in the evening. And just as the walk was coming to, because I normally got my earpods in, listening to music on a podcast or something like that. And I was just getting to the end of the walk and I thought, which is such a weird thing to think, because I walk the dog all the time, but I just thought, that is the most peaceful walk I've ever had. It was like my brain was just quiet. It was just, and it wasn't even a I didn't consciously notice it until at the end of the walk. I just thought, God, how nice was that? I was just walking, I was watching my dog, you know, playing with the dog. My brain wasn't going, what about this? What about this? You were just in the moment, you were just enjoying. Yeah. And and it's it's not so I'm still in the titration period at the minute. So I've got actually got my first review after this call to see whether we up the dose of it. Because it does seem to like most drugs, it does adapt to your body, and you you know, you start to not notice the effects as well. It's still brilliant, but it has definitely softened a bit now. I'm used to it. But yeah, all these little things just started happening. I was like, oh my god. I was like, and you know what? It's been it's been an emotional month or so since I've been on it. And I and the reason for that is I started reacting to things when I'm on these tablets with the girls in a positive way. The one example that it still makes the loving hairs stand off my arm when I say it. So Isabel, my youngest, such a little sweetheart, she loves her cricket. And me and Beck were sitting around the kitchen table, and she came in and she said, Daddy, do you think we could go out? It was really subtle, really like slow pace like that. Do you think we could go out the front and play cricket? And I turned around and without thinking, I just went, that'd be nice. Whereas before, I think I would have always been like, Well, no, me and your mum are chilling now, or yeah, or no, not right now, you know. And in that moment when she said that, and I reacted to just naturally my natural self, but actually one that's brain is quiet, was able to go, that would be nice. I love sport. Like, why wouldn't I want to go out and play cricket with my daughter? The the gut-wrenching thing in that is that I looked at her face and she was scared to ask me that. You could see it in her face. She just I think she automatically thought I'd be like, No.
SPEAKER_02: 55:50
She'd prepared herself, yeah. She'd prepared for a no or a negative or a pushback. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: 55:56
And that is why it's been quite an emotional couple of months, because in the I've started noticing these little things with the girls, whether it be my reaction to them or actually being in the moment and hearing what they're saying about their day, or where I think, oh my god, how many years have they been not scared in a because I'm a scary person, but just actually daddy won't listen or he won't care or something like that. And you know, we went out and we played cricket for an hour out the front until media came back from her nans and who's my oldest, and she took over. And I said, Oh, do you know what? I'm gonna go and make you dinner now. But I mean, Isabel, even in that moment outside, she came up to me and she just went, I love you, Daddy, and just gave me a couple. I just thought, oh my god, you're killing me. Like, and so the the only negative I can put to you now is actually it's a lot of guilt, you know, because of the past. And that's what I've got to deal with, that's fine, you know. That's if if that's all I have to deal with now is just a bit of guilt, then I can manage that because I'm I'm here now.
SPEAKER_02: 57:07
Yeah, and and that even in that one time, that first time that she'd uh she's asked you to do something, and you've your immediate reaction is yes, and you've gone and done it, and her reaction from that is to say, Daddy, I love you, like that's just on one time, like you might have all of these years where you might not have done things and you might have said no and you might have given some pushback, which you know is not your fault. You didn't it's just the way that your your brain was is wired, but the fact that just in one time, in one hour, she's she appreci she appreciates you, and I think over time that guilt hopefully will you'll you'll lose that guilt because you'll be more present and you'll be doing more things with them, and you you'll make up for it because now the times that you do have with them perhaps you'll go above and beyond.
SPEAKER_00: 58:00
Yeah. And it's not to say we haven't had, you know, we've had lots of memories over the years that have been lovely, whether that be holidays and and stuff like that. There's been lots of nice occasions, but I just think there's always been it's like how Beck would have described it, which is we can have a good spell, but there's always something. I mean, she used to say, like, especially early daddies, there wouldn't be three good months until something bad came up, you know, whatever that might be. So yeah, you know, yes, I look at it now and go, God, why didn't I get on this medication earlier? But at the same time, I'm glad that I I tried, and it my relationship improved massively with my kids and and my wife before going on medication. But actually, it reached a point where I was like, no, actually, for me, for me to be the best version of me, like I've tried the two years, now I want to try these with this medication. Because it just affected so much. I mean, you know, we've been I used to have a really bad relationship with food, not in a sense that I put on loads of weight, I've always been very lucky with you know, I I don't I don't balloon up, I don't shrink down that often. I'm I'm I'm normally a constant. But the sugar, and when I need those dopamine hits, I used to I laugh about it now because I never used to say this to Beck. And I said, you know, when you used to say, like, oh, can you just nip Tesco's or something? I'm like, oh, yeah, all right, I'll nip out of the Tesco's fine. You know, it could be normally my advice was like those cinnamon rolls you can get from bloody Tesco's. But I'd get a pack of them, like two, two of those big ones, and I'd eat them in the car on the way back. Tesco's is two minutes at the moment. But I literally just it it was like um you know, you just it's like hunting that sugar. I need this little hit, stuff them in my mouth, you know, that's done.
SPEAKER_02: 59:53
I had a similar thing. I'm very susceptible to and the way my brain works. Is you know, I will look I will look for a loophole just to justify something to myself. That's where a lot of the creation of my videos has come from. But I was in the gym, the loopholes are brilliant, and it's just it genuinely is an insight, it's an exaggerated version, but it's an insight into my brain. And an example of it this happened the other day, is I was at the gym and it's all this healthy stuff on the screens going round, and it says cinnamon cinnamon is one of the best things you can have. And that wouldn't get out of my brain, and I immediately went to a bakery and bought three morning cinnamon buns. And I was like, Well, the literally the TV said it was I could have cinnamon's the best thing for my body, so I'm just gonna I'll buy three cinnamon buns, and obviously I'm not an idiot, I know that's not good for me, and I shouldn't have eaten them in one sitting. That's you know, I should I could have had them over three days, but I didn't. But because my brain was like, Oh, cinnamon, yeah, I'll just go and buy some cinnamon buns then. You know, they're not expecting me to eat a spoonful of cinnamon, surely. But yeah, but but the one thing I did want to say is I massively respect you for trying to do it with no, you know, without taking any medication. I think it's testament to your character that you was you wanted to kind of you wanted to do it, you wanted to do it without without that, and then you've of your own accord come to the fact that okay, I want to do it for me, I want to, I want to reach my potential, I want to maybe be a bit more level or whatever you you know you want to get from it, but you've done that by yourself, and to do two years without it knowing that you've you've had that diagnosis of ADHD, that's not an easy that's not an easy thing, but you've clearly learned a lot through that two years, and that thro through that two years is when you've started to build your relationships back. So you know, I hugely respect you for that.
SPEAKER_00: 1:01:48
Well, I appreciate that, mate. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's uh I said to you earlier on about hating the term ADHD, it's because it just gets thrown around, you know. I used to say to people, you when you say that ADHD, you think of a five, six-year-old boy running around like a lunatic, don't you? And and uh so for an adult to say, well, I've got ADHD, that's not how I am at all. If anything, I'm normally the opposite of that. But yeah, it's been it's been a hell of a journey, mate. I mean and I say so me and me and Deck both followed you on on TikTok, you and Luke, you and Lucy, and uh it was it was so funny. I mean it's some of your stuff absolutely had me in stitches, like so funny. And I used to I always thought you resembled Ricky Gervais for a lot of your stuff.
SPEAKER_02: 1:02:34
Like well, the pr the problem is the problem is I do because a lot of the stuff I watched was Ricky Gervais was just a legend, he's just a legend, and he's he could anything he does is funny, but I spent a lot of my childhood even like I'd go out on nights out with my friends, I'd come home, I'd sit and watch The Office, I'd sit and watch season one of the and me and my friends the way that we would communicate was using office quotes, basically. So and then I've been to see Ricky Javais a few times and you know, seen his stand up, and so a lot of my humour is just it's formed from me watching a lot of Ricky Javais, and my personality has sort of become a little bit Ricky Java, you know, people always say, Oh, Ricky Javace from Wish, you know, that's fine. Ricky Javace from Wish is still funnier than most comedians out there, you know, is the way I look at it. But yeah, but it's funny because we have a different like through lockdown, and I went through a similar thing. I was we I was furloughed and I didn't know if I'd lost my job. I'd been in a career for like probably 18, 19 years by that point, and it was a bit it was a bit scary because no one knew what furlough was, and I was kind of like, oh, have I lost my job? And we just bought this big, big house. I'd ripped a bathroom out. I can rip stuff out, but I can't put stuff together. I'm not like handy like you. So we'd ripped a bathroom out, it was really hot, it was that hot summer you talked about, and it was it was just kind of everything was a little bit scary, but we didn't have an escape. There was no escape. But I actually learned a lot about myself during that time. I learned actually, I didn't I was always chasing the next pay rise, I was always chasing the next promotion. What can I be called? What job title have I got? And actually, I didn't care about any of it through lockdown. I cared actually, do you know what? I can be at home with my girls, and I can I and I love being at home, it was my safe space because I get really anxious going out. I have to really sort of psych myself up, and I could just stay in my little safe bubble. And the TikToks come about because well I've always made content, I had accounts long before my ex came along. I was I was making content, but it just I used it as a as an escape, and it was for a lot of people that were messaging me, they were saying, Oh, it's it's like you are my escape. I get to watch you every day, and you cheer me up a little bit, you do something silly, or you do this, you do that, you make light of a situation, and that was lovely to read, but I was doing it because I need I think I needed that. I was doing it one for the escape, I could spend an hour a day planning a video, filming a video, editing a video, posting it. It was like that was a big part of my day, and it made me forget about all the like how are we gonna pay our mortgage? How are we gonna get a bathroom fitted? We've got to build a nursery for we've got a baby on the way. And it was just an escape for me. So it's you know, a lot of people that even still message me now and they're they're like, I still remember those those days and everything that you you sort of you you did for us. I get that a lot, what what you did for us by posting content, but I was doing it for me, I was doing it for my own escape, my own mental health, even though I didn't really realise it was for my mental health at the time, but I was doing it for me. But I'm grateful that that happened. It obviously left me in a situation.
SPEAKER_00: 1:05:56
Well, because it grew. I mean, I mean, I don't know what your peak follows were when it was Dan and Lucy, but like that must have been quite you know. I've tried think, you know, when I used to do boot podcasts, you know, I was waiting for that moment that you know someone would see the an episode and be like, it would blow up. Yeah, you know, yeah, but it it just happened, I think it just happened naturally, and I think it was so the your dynamic with Lucy and then with and then with Harper, and the it was so natural and authentic, and you gained that obviously great following that I think when it all went the other way, that's why it was so shocking. Yeah, and obviously there was a lot of opinions about from all different, you know, from the female side from the male side, or both, you know, all different. And I think that's because I I don't know what it was I'm because I had before I separated with Beck, or when I got separated, I literally deleted all my socials. It was around that time that I'd messaged your messenger saying, you know, I've been through a similar thing, you know. And oh, so me and Beck were probably just working our way back together. And I said, keep fighting, or something like that. We had a few back. So I mean, I obviously I remember it, I do remember it, yeah. To me, you're on a bit of a pedal, you know, you don't to me, you're you know, you're you're out there, big following. I didn't expect to reply. It was nice that I got one, and I was especially where you were in your life at the time. Because obviously, and I I would never try and and I would never judge you or anyone for the way you went on Facebook to that first, or sorry, TikTok, that first video where you're upset, which I can't ever see myself doing, but then you also had built this huge community, and all of a sudden your life had changed massively. And I think and we talked about it, didn't we? Blokes do these things where all of a sudden they don't know what they're what's happening. Women have been preparing for this.
SPEAKER_02: 1:07:58
Well, and that's the thing, yeah, 100%. And I was in that, I was in that situation. I was I was I was blindsided and I was I was I didn't know it was like I'd been kicked out of a plane with no parachute. I've used that analogy before, and it's it's just you know that there's you're gonna hit the ground at some point, something has to happen, and it just felt like that for such a long time. It still feels like that now sometimes it's it's it's because a lot of it for me is is I I had to do something, I had to I had to tell someone because I was so restricted in what I was allowed to say back then, and I was told by certain people, we're not telling anyone, we're just and and I probably should have done everything that I've done, I probably should have done differently, but I didn't know, I didn't know, and I was already struggling with mental health before, and then instead of getting help and support, I was dropped, and then I was on my own, and I and you're then on your own, in not necessarily like the public eye, but you're on social media, so you have to then put a version of yourself out there, and I've always been even in the the video you know, and listen, every single video that's ever been posted on my page has come from my brain. I've created it, everything has come from me, and there was that dynamic which obviously helped, but I then had to find a whole new personality with no support. My superpower was I had someone that believed in me in everything I did. Yeah, I had that belief. Someone was there championing me, and a lot and I'd lost that, and that's that what I lost with that was my confidence, my ability to believe in myself, and actually then having to create a new version of me to post online, which has always been a real like I say, even with the the prank videos or whatever it was, there was always an element of real that was a real part of me that I was sharing, a real thought that I would have had, and I would have been myself through that. Yes, an exaggerated version, but to to then lose all that, it's it's hard to then find your way back, if that makes sense, and it's and you it does come with judgment because then everyone has an opinion. And I think that probably do you know what if I'd have if I'd have probably done things differently, if I'd have just I don't know, if I'd have done things a lot a lot differently to what I did, then we'd you know, there might have been some there might have been a way back for us, but yeah, I didn't I didn't behave that way and and also you know things happen and you since find out a lot that you don't know when you're in a relationship about someone and now I can look back and think, okay, fine, this is this is for the best, this isn't the person I'd want to spend my life with. But the hard stuff for me is my little girl, you know, she's she's yeah, she's everything to me. So for me, it's it's that's the struggle, and also wanting to keep the social media career, you know. I've I felt like I lost so much in one swift you know, sentence.
SPEAKER_00: 1:11:13
It was just yeah, I mean it it was just it was really it was quite it was quite shocking, and I don't you know I'm smiling just not because of the situation because that was horrible, but I think obviously the information it's different. I would never understand it, you know. You were to a certain extent, and especially on TikTok, you were in the public eye. So you probably felt somewhat a responsibility to explain to your followers what was going on, but then you've also got the other side of social media where they're like they feel like they deserve an explanation, like as to the exact details. It's a really like catch-straight to oh catch rate two, it's a really hard one to answer. I I feel like I it would be a difficult one to answer because obviously I know you'd not long been married and and and and your followers knew this, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, something must have happened, you know, this that the other something must have happened, this, that, and the other. And it just goes to show you know, I've had not not followers or on um friends, family friends, stuff like that, and you look at these perfect Instagram pictures they put on in their life, and actually then you find out what's going on behind the curtains sometimes. You're like, don't believe everything you see on the thing, you know. But I think the main thing is, and it looks like you're you you've reached a point as well where you're on the recovery trail in terms of your head's in a better space, you know, and you have tried to you for all that you got things you you weren't okay for a lot, in my opinion, from what I saw. Some of the but you were still putting yourself out there, you know, whether you talking about mental health, whether you doing your own little stand-up shows and stuff, like like fair play.
SPEAKER_02: 1:12:54
I was still trying, and it's and it's hard when you're in that space, and I'm not trying to get get extra credit here, but it is hard, it is hard. But but it was like that's my job, and I still wanted that job. I just didn't know what that job was anymore. I didn't know what my thing was because my dynamic was always having someone to bounce off, having someone to play off, having someone to like push their buttons and get a reaction, and I didn't know what that looked like anymore. And I had you get when you post anything online, you get so much support, especially if you've got a big following, you get so much support, but you also get the negative. You it comes with both, it has to. So you get people saying, just give up and go back to work. And for some people, it's so easy, just oh, just give up and go back to work. Well, this was at a time where jobs aren't easy to get. I yeah, I I felt like I lost so much. I didn't want to take a step back. There's nothing wrong with the job I had. I love the job. I did it for 20 years, I love that job, and I love the people I worked with. I've said it before, I love the company, but I I didn't want to go back, I wanted to go forward and I wanted to do something in this industry, an industry that I've worked so hard for, and that's why I sort of struggle now because I'm although I'm in a better place, it's still a you know, it's still a struggle, and then you see you know, my ex will post a video and it will get 20,000 likes, and it'll it'll be like, but I created that whole platform, I created everything, I created that lifestyle, and it's and sometimes I do have to give myself more credit. I think I'm very easy. I'm the first one to put myself down, but actually I think the peak of what we have we we only had like 450,000 followers on Facebook. No, I think for maybe 350,000. I've gained more on Facebook, you know, since in a shorter period of time. TikTok went up to nearly a million, it's dropped by about 5,000 recently, but I haven't really been posting on it. But it's I I had a video that had like 350,000 likes and millions and millions of views, and that that was something that I created since the split, and that's the biggest video that I've ever made, and that was on my own. I did all I had obviously I pranked the Smithy family, I had some help, but I just sometimes have to give myself that credit that you know what you can do it, it's just having the confidence to do it, and that's what that's what I'm lacking.
SPEAKER_00: 1:15:20
I and I think the I think the I mean you you've not chosen an easy you know, entertainment is not easy. There's and that's not because you you know it's about being seen, isn't it? And there is so much out there now for us on our phones, this and the other. You know, you scroll on TikTok and you're just getting content, content, content. And it must be really must be a real challenge to actually go, what can I because you've probably got loads of content, but at the same time thinking, but what's gonna get what's gonna get seen now, what's gonna go by, you know. I don't I'm not in that world as such, and especially not anymore. So I think you know, fair play for for for sticking at it. And I I love the idea of a podcast. I mean I I do love podcasts, and as I said to you before, I didn't, you know, I didn't know what your setup was. I I really liked the one with you and your two best mates. Yeah, you know, for whatever reason, you know, you you done that for a bit. I I know you were obviously trying different things. I do love that, and that's how I always envisioned my podcast. I always thought I just wanted to be a few mates just sitting around a table. Like, do I imagine? I imagine like a true Geordie podcast, just with some mates sitting around and you're talking just about life because it is hard. And and for men, you know, we they don't talk. Well, you know, there's still there's still things I I don't I'm very open compared to a lot of people. And I, you know, I work with a couple of old hands on my station that wouldn't even have a conversation about mental health, yeah. They wouldn't acknowledge it. My dad, when I first said to him about ADHD and said I've got diagnosed, he was like, Yeah, but is it really a thing though? Like that. But now we've had a better and he and our relationship's grown over the years because that wasn't you know, I used to work for him when I wasn't great, and that was partly him, partly me. But we got a good relationship now, and I remember sitting down with him a few weeks ago actually and talking to about what this the effect this medication's had. And and he was actually interested, you know, he's a 60-year-old guy, and he was like, Really? He was like, It makes that much of a difference, and I'm like, You wouldn't believe it. But there is so many mindsets to change out there, and that's what I love the idea of a podcast, which is what's gonna get back to my point again, diverting. That's why I messaged saying, Love to do it in person, and that's not just like Dan Lawrence, I want to go and sit with in person, dude.
SPEAKER_02: 1:17:44
So I think there is a lot more that comes with the the the kind of doing it in person. There's a lot more you can it's a bit it does, it's more personal, isn't it? It's and and I think you you then bounce off each other a bit more. It is harder when it's over you know a studio, and and and look, hopefully, my goal will be if if I can grow this podcast and I get enough people that want to come on, then at some point I'll hopefully have a studio and a setup and I can do these podcasts in in person. That would be the goal, that's what I want. You know, I I mean that would be the goal. I think the other goal is I just for as many people to sit, I just want to spread awareness.
SPEAKER_00: 1:18:23
But if even mate, it's been lovely. It's been you know, I've I've really enjoyed it so far. It's it's good.
SPEAKER_02: 1:18:29
Yeah, well I appreciate it. What I was gonna say is if I do ever, if I ever do get to that point and get a studio, then I'll you'll be my first one back on and we'll have a we'll have another episode. But but I always like to finish on something a bit more positive. I know we've we've had a few laughs actually through this, so it's been quite nice, but a lot of these episodes can be quite you know, quite downbeat. So I always like to finish on something a bit more light-hearted. So have you got anything that's happened to you in the last couple of weeks that's already made you laugh or had like a nice experience or something positive that's happened that you can share? I like to put people on the spot at this bit.
SPEAKER_00: 1:19:08
Well, I just done my direct access course for a motorbike, so I can now rode ride motorbikes any size, which I was saying which is something I've talked about doing for years, and again, most situations never had the money to do it. So actually, to be able to turn around and go, No, do you know what? This money that I get on in May, which was the promise yeah, I'm actually gonna go and buy a bike and I'm gonna do the test. Now, in typical ADHD fashion, I have to go all in still. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say I went I don't know, I've got a second hand bike, but it's a nice, nice bike, 500, nice cruiser. Then I'm you know, I've got my lid jacket, I've got the got the test booked in, I've got it all and so I've done that. That was really positive. Really enjoyed that. Works positive. We're you know, we're working on a couple of projects at work. I'm uh trying to put myself in a position because there's gonna be a promotion run probably in April next week, next year. So I'm trying to put myself in a position where when they say a question like, you know, what have you been working on over the past two years? I can go this, this, this, this.
SPEAKER_02: 1:20:07
Yeah. Put yourself in it, put yourself in a position where they consider you. You know, you you're you've got a chance.
SPEAKER_01: 1:20:13
It's definitely not therapy.
SPEAKER_02: 1:20:15
But listen, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today, Matt, and stay in touch. I'll ping you my number and we'll stay in touch and hopefully we'll catch up soon.
SPEAKER_00: 1:20:25
Yeah, no one's one dad. Lovely. Have a good afternoon, Matt.
SPEAKER_02: 1:20:28
Thank you so much. I'll talk to you soon.