Thomas Hale What Does Courage Look Like When No One Believes You

Thomas Hale’s life began in a neonatal unit, one of five babies fighting to survive. From the very start, his body was shaped by medical trauma—surgeries, sepsis, cerebral palsy, and a lifetime of resilience forged long before most people learn what survival costs. By seventeen, he had lost his bladder and bowel. Independence became something he had to fight for daily, quietly, and without applause.

What followed, years later, was not just a marriage—but a slow, devastating lesson in coercive control.

From the outside, the relationship appeared loving, stable, and safe. Behind closed doors, control tightened. Thomas speaks with clarity and dignity about how it unfolded: constant phone monitoring, isolation from friends and family, financial restriction that left him with £20 a fortnight, cycles of intimidation and violence, and self-harm used as a weapon to keep him fearful and compliant. Just three days after the wedding, the mask slipped—and seven and a half years of isolation followed.

Life became smaller. One room. Repetition. Survival through habit and adrenaline.

Until one hour changed everything.

With no certainty of safety and no guarantee of support, Thomas made a decision that required extraordinary courage. A taxi. A call for help. A step into the unknown.

What comes next is not a neat recovery story, but an honest one. Rebuilding trust after being disbelieved. Re-establishing boundaries without apology. Reconnecting with people who only ever saw the public performance of the relationship. Finding joy again through theatre, live music, and creativity. Learning to live fully while carrying both visible and invisible scars.

As a sponsor of this channel, Thomas does not share his story for sympathy. He shares it to educate, to protect, and to give language to experiences that too often remain hidden. He names the red flags clearly—surveillance, financial control, isolation, humiliation, threats framed as care—so others can recognise danger sooner and leave more safely.

Thomas reminds us that pain does not need comparison to be valid. That courage is not loud or heroic—it is often quiet, trembling, and decisive. And that help exists, even when the world feels silent.

His medical challenges continue. His advocacy continues. And so does his commitment to choosing truth, dignity, and hope over silence.

This episode covers:

• Quintuplet birth and neonatal survival
• Cerebral palsy, bladder failure, repeated surgeries, and dual stomas
• Identity, confidence, and relationships with disability
• Miscarriage and shared grief
• Coercive control: surveillance, isolation, and financial abuse
• Violence and self-harm used as manipulation
• Losing work, friendships, and family contact for seven and a half years
• The breaking point and planning a safe exit
• Recovery through boundaries, community, and creative expression
• Practical red flags and guidance for safe leaving
• Why no one should face coercive control alone

This conversation exists because courage was chosen in silence.

Thomas Hale’s story is not shared for shock, sympathy, or headlines. It is shared because coercive control thrives in isolation, disbelief, and quiet dismissal. By speaking openly, Thomas is helping create the language, awareness, and confidence others may need to recognise what is happening in their own lives.

As a sponsor of this channel, Thomas supports the work of bringing real stories into the open—stories that challenge assumptions, confront uncomfortable truths, and remind people that abuse does not always look the way we expect it to. Control can be subtle. It can wear the mask of care. And it can happen to anyone.

If you recognise yourself in any part of this episode, know this:

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00
Welcome to another episode of Definitely Not Therapy, the podcast where I talk to a different stranger in every single episode. Real people with real stories. It's an honest, unfiltered, raw podcast about mental health and all the things surrounding mental health, all the things people don't want to talk about. And sometimes you're trying to talk and no one's listening. Well, do you know what? I will listen. I will listen. We will listen together. You can come here, there's no judgment. Come and tell me your story. Let's share your story. Let's help someone out. Because I genuinely believe that everyone has a story to tell. And that story can help someone. But before I tell you who my guest is, I want to just give a really heartfelt shout to my sponsor. I got a bit emotional then. I'm so, so blessed to have a sponsor on this podcast. And it's a company who they really do support men in the mental health space. The podcast wouldn't be possible without Bell Trades Limited. They are just incredible. They're incredible at showing their support. They want to do whatever they can for the men's mental health space. The most important thing to tell you about Bell Trades, they've got a brand new website. It is modern, it is easy to use. If there's any work you're going to need on your home, Bell Trades, allow the people to talk to. They do kitchen renovations, they do bathroom renovations, they do full home restorations, they take everything apart, put it all back together again. They're really clever. They know what they're doing. It's more than a renovation, it's a transformation. It's a thoughtful transformation. They're a brilliant company. They're a really, really, really nice bunch of people. Go and take a look. www.belltrades.co.uk. I've got a little bit about Meet the Team on here. Should we have a little look at we've got Martin the founder? He's the driving force behind Bell Trades. Three years ago, he started with nothing, which this is an incredible story. And Martin has actually been on the podcast and shared his story. He started with nothing but a tool bag.£15 in his account. That's inspirational. That is also more than me at the moment. But he had a commitment to want to do things the right way. And I know Martin personally. There's no one else I'd rather give my home to to renovate it. Danny is the guru. Danny brings an unbelievable amount of skill and knowledge to the building game. Vicky, the backbone of Bell Trades, the woman behind the scenes, making sure everything runs smoothly from admin and scheduling to keeping things organised. She handles all the jobs people take for granted, but couldn't live without. Then you've got Gareth, who's the site supervisor. He's been with Bell Trade since the early days. Gaz, bathroom fitter, and wet trade specialist. And they got Dan the Apprentice, which is not me. He wouldn't hire me. I'm rubbish at all that sort of stuff. I need people like Belltrades to come and get me out of trouble when I've ruined my house. If you've listened to any of these episodes of this podcast and it's helped, then all I ask of you is just spread the word. If you've got a family member or a friend that they might in conversation say, Oh, you know, we'd love to get our bathroom done. Put them in touch with Bell Trades. That's all you've got to do. Or if you're thinking, Oh, I'd love to get that room done, there are financial options available. Go to the website www.belltrades.co.uk, have a little look through. In all honesty, if I can just be real for a second, Bell Trades have saved this podcast. This podcast would not be possible without them. So this is a heartfelt thank you from me to Bell Trades because this little podcast and the people that listen to it, I have imposter syndrome. I'm sat here making a podcast. I do everything on myself. I fund everything myself, all at a time where I've lost my financial income from my social media pages, and I'm still trying to put this out because I know the amount of messages I receive. I like I know it helps people. The fact that Bell Trades have stepped in and they're showing support and they're helping, it means the world to me. But it means the world to you guys as well. It means the world to me that you're listening to the podcast, and I can't thank Bell Trades enough. And like I say, all I ask is show them some support in return. And I'm not expecting you all to go out and buy a kitchen or a bathroom and to have your home renovated. But if you do need anything done or you do know someone that needs something done, well at least get in touch with Bell Trades. But have a look at the website, it's a brand new website. I I couldn't do this without them. I really couldn't. Thanks for listening. We're going to jump into the episode now. But once again, huge thank you to Bell Trades. In this episode, I'm joined by Thomas. Now, Thomas was born a quint uplet, which I don't know how many that is, but that sounds like a lot. That's a lot. It's more than twins, isn't it? So because of that, unfortunately, Thomas has had health problem after health problem. He has a mild case of cerebral pausy, he's had most of his bowel removed, he has no bladder, and he's only 36. And this is just scratching the surface. Thomas is vulnerable. And because of that, someone took advantage of Thomas. And he was in a nearly seven-year marriage where he was the victim of coercive control. And Thomas is he still gets up every day, he's still smiling, he's still moving forward, he's still doing his best. And that's really inspiring to me. And hopefully we'll listen to Thomas's story, and that will be inspiring to you. At least one of you. And Pat and Thomas wants to educate. He wants to educate on some of the signs of coercive control and what that can do to you. I think it's a really important message to spread. I really do. And it just even reading Thomas's notes, it's really inspiring what his what he's been through and how he's able to come out the other side. And I hope that that can relate to some of you. You know, not every single aspect of every single episode is gonna hit home for you. But the fact that there's people that are going through struggles, a struggle is a struggle, pain is pain. It doesn't matter what you've been through, it's not a competition. Pain is pain, and struggles are struggles. And if we can come together, we can all come out the other side. If we can help by sharing these stories, if you're sat there and thinking, I'm alone, you're not alone. You're not alone. We're here, we're right here. Um, so welcome to the podcast. Thomas, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it, and I think you know, the reason that I do this podcast is to talk to real people, get real stories, hear what people have been through to hopefully inspire someone else who might be sat there thinking, like, life is tough, or I've been through this, or I've been through that, and I just don't know how to come out the other side. And I just believe talking to real people and sharing real stories can can can really make a difference, Thomas. So I I also know how hard it is sometimes coming onto these sorts of things and opening it up and you know showing a vulnerability. So I do really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me, Thomas. Yeah, so well, how are you anyway? How are you, Thomas?

SPEAKER_05: 7:24
Yeah, I'm good, thanks. Yeah, yeah, I'm doing all right.

SPEAKER_01: 7:28
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 7:28
I'm getting there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things are good.

SPEAKER_01: 7:32
Well, that's good. That's good to hear. I've got your obviously I've got your research sheet that you you'd sent through. So I've got a little bit of information about what you've been through, but I sort of it's I I always find it's easier to sort of start at the beginning, you know, what was what was well the beginning for you seems really interesting from someone on the outside looking in because you were born a quint, which I don't even know what that is. I don't know how many of that is. So if you can maybe tell us a little bit about that and about your childhood growing up and yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 8:01
Yeah, no problem. Basically, it's five were babies born all at once.

SPEAKER_01: 8:07
Right, wow, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_05: 8:09
Yeah, yeah, that was and back then it was quite big, it was rare, and like it was hard. We were 12 weeks early.

SPEAKER_00: 8:21
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 8:22
And then we were originally born from Reading, but now we're in Plymouth.

SPEAKER_00: 8:28
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 8:30
And everybody was survived, everybody survived, which was the main thing.

SPEAKER_01: 8:35
Well, that's really good. I guess I mean, even being born just 12 weeks early has its own complications. You know, that has its own complications, but then were there any kind of obviously being quintet, which is obviously quite well, I say quite rare. I've never heard of it, you know, and I'm 41 now. But is there any sort of health conditions that sort of come with that? You know, being that there's five babies all kind of fighting for the you know, yeah, only me.

SPEAKER_05: 9:02
I was the I was the unlucky one. Everybody else was fine, but I basically had to fight since day one, really. Right. And that's what life's been about ever since.

SPEAKER_01: 9:13
Okay. So what did that look like for you then? So what was the what was the health, what was the struggles that you went through?

SPEAKER_05: 9:21
Well, at birth I well it was a lot of time in ICU. I d we didn't come out of hospital, I didn't come out of of hospital for about four months after being born.

SPEAKER_00: 9:36
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05: 9:37
And then I spent the majority of my childhood in and out of hospital. And so going back then, about two, three years old, I was born. I was obviously born with cerebral pausy, but I was diagnosed with it later on in life.

SPEAKER_01: 9:55
Right, okay. So you weren't diagnosed at birth then?

SPEAKER_05: 9:58
No, no, no, no. But they could see things going on at birth that weren't right.

SPEAKER_00: 10:04
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 10:05
And so and then as it's childhood, it wasn't it was tough. It was tough growing up with five. Like my mum was a single parent.

SPEAKER_00: 10:17
Right.

SPEAKER_05: 10:18
So she was on her own and we moved down to Devon. Which I think a lot of people seem to do these days.

SPEAKER_01: 10:27
It's a very popular part.

SPEAKER_05: 10:28
Yeah, it is. And from then it was just a constant battle ever since. Whether all my health because the complications of my health has just got worse as my as I've got older.

SPEAKER_03: 10:42
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 10:45
Where basic basically my organs are now starting to fail on me. So this amount of time from each time, every every day is a battle, like I said.

SPEAKER_01: 10:56
And you're only do you mind me saying your age as well? You're only 30.

SPEAKER_05: 10:59
Yeah, that's not a problem. Yeah, 36.

SPEAKER_01: 11:02
Like you're so young as well to have to kind of navigate and go through to go through that. I mean, how how obviously, you know, coming from being a child to being an an adult, and obviously you you sort of learn more about yourself and you understand more about these problems that you're you're having and the health conditions, how does that sort of affect you on a on a daily basis? Like mental health-wise, is it is it is it a struggle?

SPEAKER_05: 11:30
Yeah, each day, each day is different, as we all know. Everyone never has the same day.

SPEAKER_03: 11:36
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:37
And I can have I can have I can peek and I can be out enjoying life and let people think there's nothing wrong. But then I can also shut myself away for days and do and just like have my own thoughts and just basically fester because but that's what mental health does. And it is a battle, and like no matter how many people would try and help and say, snap out of it, they don't know what's happening, they don't know what I'm going through when like when you're out there, people just don't know, yeah, and really it's a fight, it really is.

SPEAKER_01: 12:22
And I think the m the the kind of again, the older you get and the the the longer it goes on, it's very easy. And and you look, like you say, every single person's battle is different, but I think one thing that m a lot of people that have any kind of mental health battle have in common is that we get better at hiding it, and you get because all because all you hear is you know, snap out of it. It's phrases like that, snap, and that doesn't help. That put that for me puts me more back in my shell. That puts me more back into like okay, well these people just definitely don't understand. All they're saying is snap out of it, and they mean well, we know they mean well, but it just doesn't it doesn't help. So it's it's kind of finding the tools to because you you're then on your own, you feel on your own, don't you? You're you're you're alone. It's like you've got to then come out of this on my own. There's no one that can really help me. So how does that kind of how does that how do you do it? How do you turn around and and you know you might have days where you're thinking, well, I'm just gonna hide myself away, but how do you come out the other side of that?

SPEAKER_05: 13:31
Well, it's like people say, Oh, you've got four other siblings, it must be great, it must be fantastic, you know, you've got all that support. They couldn't be they couldn't be any more wrong than you could imagine, you know? Oh they've gone on and had they've gone on and had their own lives. And I've been and like because I was different uh at childhood, and as because I will mention this because I have nothing to do with them, it basically my I was bullied throughout my childhood by my own siblings for being different.

SPEAKER_01: 14:08
Because you were the the kind of the the I don't want to say the weaker one, but the one that had the health issues, so to them and their their kids, so they probably don't know any different, but it's but it went on throughout life, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 14:23
Oh really, and like even still now, till this day certain brother is trying to always put hurdles in front of everything I do, trying to stop me living my life, even though at the end of the day, he knows the end for me, he knows what's going to happen. And obviously, every day I'm trying to escape that, and like I have good friends, yeah, and I have people in my life because at a certain time in my life it was awful, which obviously we'll get to in a bit. But even though my point is, even though you have family, it doesn't mean they're gonna support. Well, they say parents are brilliant, but siblings now.

SPEAKER_01: 15:09
Well, it's good that you've got the support because I was gonna ask, uh I mean, my assumption, and this is probably naivety on my part, was you know, you're a quintumplet. Wow, you've got a support network immediately. You've got you know, however many siblings, because obviously I didn't know how many a quintuplet was, but you've got so many siblings, therefore you've got a support network. But that's actually really sad to hear that it's the complete opposite, you need a support network because of those siblings, which is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_05: 15:37
Yeah, and like it's it just feels it's always felt like it's I've always been like they would used to say, Oh, you get all the time with with mum, and that, but that was appointments, it wasn't days out, but it was so but it was still a jealousy, but they don't see it like that because they don't, you know, as kids, and again, this is has got on to adulthood, unfortunately, but as kids they don't we don't we don't understand that, and it's like oh they're getting all the time with mum, but actually it wasn't you know, it was for appointments and necessity and because of your health conditions, but they probably didn't see it like that, and it was just a jealousy, yeah. And like as I've got older, when I got to about 17, where my health really, really declined, and certain things are starting to happen, and I was losing certain organs and certain things, and it's I thought then, yeah, things will get better, they will start, and then but no, they just backed off because they thought, oh, there we go. Like, we've got our lives, we're going off and doing our things, and they're all academic and everything else. Everything I've got, I've had to fight for. Everything I've done with work, career, everything, I've had to fight for. Whereas they've sort of had it given to them on a plate, where I haven't.

SPEAKER_01: 17:04
The one thing I would say is it's it's clearly giving you a resilience that perhaps your siblings don't have and perhaps won't ever have because you've had to have you've had to build that resilience, you've had to build that fight from birth, whereas they they haven't. So, you know, and I hope they don't, you know, go through struggles, and and I hope I you know, I wish no one had to go through struggles, but it it I it I would argue that if they did have to, and there were some severe health issues and and they didn't have the support network and they had to do it on their own like you have, then perhaps they they they might not deal with it quite as well.

SPEAKER_05: 17:46
It's like I I had it's like a teen my teen years, yeah, they were good. I was like every teenager, you know, like like we all did back then, you know, have fun, enjoy life. But then and and as I got older, obviously, started dating and everything else, but then that's when my life went wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 18:08
Right.

SPEAKER_05: 18:08
Completely.

SPEAKER_01: 18:09
So when so just coming back to so before we get on to that, um so childhood for you. So did you have you said obviously your mum was was good, you had a support network in her, but what about friends aside from your siblings at school? Kind of did you have a good friendship group?

SPEAKER_05: 18:27
Yeah, I did, I did, because they obviously obviously you have the bullies, you have people that that aren't very nice, every school has that. But I was the one that would actually have friends. I've still got friends that I went to school with back in primary school that I've walked in that door at reception, and we're still friends now.

SPEAKER_01: 18:48
It's not often you hear that.

SPEAKER_05: 18:50
No, and like we were at a concert a few weeks ago, you know, and like all to all together, and that was like we've known each other what 31 years now.

SPEAKER_01: 19:01
Wow, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_05: 19:03
And like even though we've all gone off, had our lives, married, everything else worked, everything else, we've always still come back, even if there's been a gap, we've always come back at some point.

SPEAKER_01: 19:15
Yeah, that's good. It's good that you've got that.

SPEAKER_05: 19:19
Yeah. So go on. No, that's it. That was it.

SPEAKER_01: 19:25
So they're moving up to to you said you got to the age of 17, and that was when was that when you the the the health deteriorated, did you say?

SPEAKER_05: 19:36
Yeah. Yeah. That's when I started basically I got up one morning and couldn't pee. So at 17 I'd lost the whole use of my bladder.

SPEAKER_01: 19:49
W were there problems leading up to this, or was this was No, just one day, stopped.

SPEAKER_05: 19:55
Just couldn't couldn't go to the toilet, couldn't peek. So obviously, that was Hospital, all sorts of different interventions, tests, and they said, Well, and they all at one point it was like you're just using the cerebral palsy as an excuse, as the reason, just to like sort of palm it off. But then after other tests, yeah, actually, it was actually to a point no, you've lost all continents on that part of your bladder, you have no continents whatsoever anymore. So they obviously catheter and the catheter at 17 years old is no fun. No, obviously, then they moved it up to the pubic bone and put a tube in there, and then that was infection after infection. So, and I went on for four years just like that, in and out of hospital, sepsis after sepsis, sepsis I get on a regular basis because of my health. But so it wasn't until I was 22 that I had to go to the urology hospital up in Southmead, which is specialists.

SPEAKER_00: 21:01
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 21:02
Where basically they fit done an operation, which means it's called a mitrophonoff.

SPEAKER_00: 21:09
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 21:10
So that so they'd make a canal out of bowel. So then basically and there would be a pouch inside where I then siphon off.

SPEAKER_00: 21:19
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 21:20
So that went well for a few years, but obviously, when you're young at that age going out enjoying life, it isn't fun.

unknown: 21:28
No.

SPEAKER_05: 21:29
You know, you're always going back to that, no matter how long you try not to think about it, and obviously, when you when like girls and everything come into that's always been a battle because, like, when you lift up your top, it's a bit different. Well, it was back then because but now it's even more different because that failed, right? So I lost I had my bladder removed four years ago. So I've now got a stoma on that side called a urostomy.

SPEAKER_00: 22:01
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 22:03
But also due to other complications and other issues with my bowel, I've lost the whole use of my bowel as well. So I've now got a stoma on that side as well.

SPEAKER_01: 22:15
Wow. And so what age did though did you have those those two fitted?

SPEAKER_05: 22:20
I was I was 31. Wow. When that happened, so it's recent, it's not that far ago. But lead before then, obviously, with the health, it was it's been uh lots of hospital at time. One time I was in for 18 weeks, solid.

SPEAKER_01: 22:38
Wow, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_05: 22:40
Yeah, I've had feeding tubes, peg tubes, jets tubes.

SPEAKER_01: 22:45
So they've just basically tried every possible solution and just nothing is re nothing really worked.

SPEAKER_05: 22:52
No.

SPEAKER_01: 22:53
Until and how are you getting on with the with the what they call stoma, is it?

SPEAKER_05: 22:57
Yeah, stomas. It's part of life now, you know. I'm I'm used to it, it's fine. It's obviously the men the mental health side of it is tough.

SPEAKER_01: 23:08
Yeah, well, that's what I was gonna come on to. Like that must be like where you say where you start getting older and you have these health issues and you're you're a young lad, you know, you want to go out and probably drinking, partying, meeting girls, that just looks different, I guess, for you, like just with the the confidence.

SPEAKER_05: 23:26
It is, and I've I've got that confidence, however, some days I don't, you know, and it's always that it's always that question where it's like when do I mention it?

SPEAKER_04: 23:40
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 23:42
You know, and obviously before then, even with when it leading up to it, or with the other different interventions they've done to help, try and help, it's always when do I mention it? What do I say? You know, and it that's been a battle because it's not normal. I know it's not normal, it's not it's not usual, you know, and it's yeah, it is not gonna be easy for anybody to take in.

SPEAKER_01: 24:06
It's a tough one, isn't it? Because it's it's kind of the thing you don't want to you don't want to mention just straight off the bat because because it's not you know, I I guess it's not the kind of conversation you want to have when you're just meeting someone, but also you don't want to leave it so many weeks and then start to have feelings for someone and they're like, oh, by the way, this, and then if it's something that they're not, they're not, I don't know, I don't know, not comfortable. This isn't a an area that I'm particularly, you know, I don't, I don't, I'm not very well educated around this sort of stuff, and I think it's it's heartbreaking that you've been through this, but also, you know, you're you're you're still going, and you, you know, you still have a smile on your face, and you're you still kind of you still like to say you had that confidence, you have that confidence, and I think whether you could be anyone, I'm sure there's people that have had absolutely no health issues in their life ever, and they might be the the prettiest girl or the most handsome man, but they're still gonna have days they're not feeling confident. I think it's we all have that, so it's good that you still have the days where you you're you can wake up and be like, Yeah, do you know I'm caught I'm feeling confident now, feeling good today, and I think that is so empowering, that's so incredible.

SPEAKER_05: 25:29
But then again, there's another side to it all, and where where people they will know you're unwell, or they know, oh yeah, they're different, and then they take advantage of that, right, and they use it to their own advantage, and can I can I go on to when I did find somebody married and everything else?

SPEAKER_01: 25:58
Yeah, 100%. Tell yeah, tell your sort to say whatever you're you're comfortable saying.

SPEAKER_05: 26:03
So when I was 22, obviously I'd been on a dating scene and obviously met girls, gone off on dates, and had a good time, enjoyed life, and that was before things started to go wrong. Yes, I had uh urological problems, but everything else I was putting to a side and still getting on with life.

SPEAKER_01: 26:26
Okay, so but even the new neurological side of things that didn't hold you back.

SPEAKER_05: 26:33
No, it no, once I got to the fact what I knew I had to do, and I got all that out of the way every day, yeah, and I always as long as I knew where the toilets were and everything going out and about, I was absolutely fine. Yes, there were issues where leakages and things, but I just sorted it out and carried on, yeah. And but so then obviously I was dating and I started to meet this particular girl who I thought at the time was absolutely fantastic. She was older than me, I was 22, she was 27 at the time when I first met her, and she she was fantastic, we got on, we clicked. Everything it was like it was amazing, it was stuff like something that feelings I'd never felt before at this time, and I spent a lot of time with her, practically moved moved in because well, I didn't not officially, but I was always there. And we clicked, and that first year was brilliant, and she was supportive.

SPEAKER_01: 27:43
Can I ask how did she know about your health conditions? Did you what at what point did you open up? At what point did you feel comfortable talking to her about it, and and how was she when you did talk about it?

SPEAKER_05: 27:57
I told her before I met her. Okay, because I met her online, yeah. And because you you don't get you don't like meet people out and about like today nowadays, like you used to. It's not the same anymore. You know, these apps have come in, and there's good sides to it, and there's bad side to it, and this is probably a bad side, what I'm gonna say, to to the apps. And so I told her before I met her, I was up straight with her, and I said, Look, this is what's going on, and this is my health, this is the current situation, and I said, I need if you're in, you're in 100%. But if you're not and you're not gonna give me that 100%, then it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01: 28:48
Yeah, yeah, which is fair enough. I respect you for being up front.

SPEAKER_05: 28:53
Well, it's better off doing that now than later on in life, later on, yeah, than having that question, and it's like, why haven't you told me?

SPEAKER_01: 29:02
Yeah, especially at the point where, and I think we'll, you know, we'll probably come on and talk about dating apps in in a bit, but because I've got my own opinions on it, but it is I yeah, you can because you haven't met this person, you don't owe them anything, they don't owe you anything. So actually it's so easy to just be honest, and then actually if they're still interested and you're honest, then okay, fair enough, we might have something here. But yeah, carry on, sorry.

SPEAKER_05: 29:32
And so she uh so like we agreed we would meet, and like I said, it was it was great, you know, it was really, really good. And then then I married her.

SPEAKER_01: 29:46
After how long? How long were you together?

SPEAKER_05: 29:50
A year.

SPEAKER_01: 29:50
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 29:52
But it was because people I'm gonna be judged on this, I know I am, but so be it. In the back of my head I was obviously some I've always wanted that life, that marriage, the kids, everything. I've always wanted that. And because everything felt so perfect, and I I knew this was about three months after I was due major surgery, like huge surgery. This was the first big bladder operation. And it was about 65% chance of survival because of my other health comp complications.

SPEAKER_00: 30:39
Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 30:41
And I didn't want to die on my own. If I was gonna die, I wanted to die knowing that I'd married somebody and I'd married a girl that I actually thought I loved.

SPEAKER_04: 30:53
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 30:53
And I did love. And I just and I wanted I obviously wanted her to take my name before that had happened.

SPEAKER_01: 31:03
I don't think you'd be judged. I I genuinely I think that's I think that's a lovely thing.

SPEAKER_05: 31:08
I don't think if anyone judges you because of that, I just but the main time the other reason at the fact at that time and at that point she was actually pregnant.

SPEAKER_00: 31:23
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 31:25
With obviously my child, which was it happened very, very quick. It happened two months in, so I knew she was pregnant quite well, very pregnant, yeah, at that time, but she lost the baby just as we were just about to get married. Sorry. Through a miss miscarriage through a miss miscarriage, and that was the start of things cracking in a way, but they didn't crack straight away. So obviously we went through that, we grieved, and it was hard. It was probably one of the worst times of my life because I'd never experienced anything in my life, and like people say, Oh, but what about what about like the mum? She's lost her child. She's and they all people focus on the mums, and fair enough, yeah. It's also bad for the dad, it's terrible because at the end of the day, it's their child too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:31
You know, I think we we we'll never just to interject, I don't, you know, uh uh it's of course it's harder for the mum because they're carrying a child, and we cut and as a man, we'll never be able to appreciate or understand the trauma that that brings. All we can do is be supportive, but you have also hit the nail on the head. And funny enough, I had Oliver on from Angels United, which is a support network just for dads who you know their partners have lost a baby through through miscarriage, and it's it's because there needs to be more people of that because there isn't a really a real support network because the men are kind of forgotten about because it's that whole thing, well, men we just deal with stuff, we just we just get on with it and deal with it. Yeah, and women are better at opening up and leaning on their friends and having that support network when something like that happens. So yeah, I can understand at that time would have been really difficult for you, Thomas, and and you know, you must have you must have felt probably you know, well, heartbroken and and yeah, probably alone because yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 33:44
And like we obviously all have our own coping mechanisms, and in I went right down in downward downward spiral that time in my life where I'd probably done I'd obviously done things I shouldn't have done, and but I did feel so alone and it and I I was trying to be there every day for her for the ex, and it was hard, and like she she had her own problems, she had her own mental health problems where she was a self-harma.

SPEAKER_01: 34:25
Okay. Was this was this previous, did you know about this before you met, or did this come from the trauma of losing a baby?

SPEAKER_05: 34:33
No, I knew of this before we had met. Okay, she had told me that, but I didn't know to the level.

SPEAKER_04: 34:42
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 34:44
And I witnessed things I I wish I wouldn't want anybody to witness. It was horrible, and like when I didn't have the backing of my own parents to be with her, right? And obviously I I say now why didn't oh sorry, can you still see me?

SPEAKER_01: 35:06
I can still see you.

SPEAKER_05: 35:07
Yeah, right. Sorry, someone coming up. And like there was like, I always say now, why did you let me marry marry her? We told you, and I was like, No, you didn't. No one ever they just let me get on with it. In like, I'm like, you helped finance that wedding. So if you really did not want me to marry her, why did you help finance that wedding? And but things didn't crack until I married her. She was perfect until I married her. But about three days later was when it when the converse control really started.

SPEAKER_01: 35:47
As soon as that, so three days into a marriage?

SPEAKER_05: 35:50
Yeah, three days into a marriage.

SPEAKER_01: 35:52
So what happened? What was that first what was that first thing where you first knew? Could because you stayed married. But what what was that first thing? And did did you know at the time that's what that was and still stayed, or is it a looking back that was that?

SPEAKER_05: 36:11
No, I didn't until that day. Until that day it happened. And the first thing that happened was I had a mirror put through my head.

SPEAKER_00: 36:22
A what?

SPEAKER_05: 36:22
Because a mirror, she put a mirror through my head. Because she was getting she was always thinking I was talking to other people, I was talking like other girls and everything else. When I wasn't, and like we had we were in a cul de sac, but then we had another street just opposite us, and she grew up there all her life, and she had she had a good family network, yeah. But now looking back on it, they just all grouped together, and once one thing happened, you're worse in the world when I hadn't even done anything.

SPEAKER_01: 37:02
So they were just basically encouraging that because she would go back, presumably, and say, Oh, Thomas has done this, Thomas is doing that, and then they would encourage her to stick up for herself, and then that where she was where she was really like just deluded because nothing was going on, and I she had two children previous to me coming up, and every day I was the one having to get up and get them to school.

SPEAKER_05: 37:29
Well, she'd stay in bed, she wouldn't do anything, you know, and I was making sure that house ran.

SPEAKER_01: 37:34
So did she work? Did she work or no?

SPEAKER_05: 37:38
No, and I had to stop doing what I was doing because she didn't like I, as far as she was concerned, that was it. I was there.

SPEAKER_01: 37:49
She just wanted you there all the time.

SPEAKER_05: 37:51
Yeah, and I at first, yes, I didn't mind that, I didn't mind helping her as a kids, I didn't mind supporting her and everything else, and I would be there for her. And I would I stopped my life for her, yeah, because I thought at the time that was the best thing to do. But then so the reason when she done that, the mirror, then the domestic abuse started, got worse and worse and worse, where I'd be where she would hit me, wow, or she'd she'd get she'd start things where every morning she'd check my phone, every evening she'd check my phone.

SPEAKER_01: 38:26
What to say what you'd been doing and if you were talking to anyone or what you've been looking at.

SPEAKER_05: 38:30
Yeah.

unknown: 38:31
God.

SPEAKER_05: 38:33
And like people would say, get out, get out. It's not as easy just to come out of a especially because I was at that time, I was eight and a half, well, yeah, eight and a half years in at that point as well, in the end, before I got out of it.

SPEAKER_01: 38:50
Right, okay. So you so but this started from three days after the marriage, so you stuck around for another like six, seven years. Yeah. But how did you do it?

SPEAKER_05: 39:03
I don't know. I do not know because I thought I was doing the right I I made a promise to her two boys because they didn't have the greatest of upbringings.

SPEAKER_03: 39:13
Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 39:14
At the start, basically her parents brought them up in before I came along, but they still helped even after. And I made them a promise that until they both reached the age of sixteen, I would stay in their lives and I would stay there to help them and be there for them. And I would go nowhere until they reached sixteen.

SPEAKER_00: 39:42
Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 39:46
And this is all this obviously, constant hospital visits, constant stays in hospital or sepsis infections for me is always going on.

SPEAKER_01: 39:55
Did she support you through that or not?

SPEAKER_05: 39:59
She did. She did to start with, and obviously, some things happened before we were married, and she was brilliant. She'd stay at the hospital for ten days when I was up there, and all sorts. But when she was there, no family, no nothing would see me, nobody, because she was there.

SPEAKER_01: 40:20
Ah, because they didn't. So did they know what was going on? Did you talk to your family?

SPEAKER_05: 40:25
They didn't know. They didn't. I couldn't. I wasn't allowed to talk to my family. I wasn't allowed to see anybody. Oh my god. I hadn't. And we get to it in a minute where how long I went without having anything to do with my family, because that's towards the end part of it, really. However, at that point, still I thought, yes, okay, it's love, yeah, yeah. And it took me a long, long time to actually because obviously I'd never hit her, I'd never do anything, even if she could beat the living daylights out of me and I'd just call up and ball and just let her do it. Because that would get her frustration out, and I knew for the next four or five hours everything would be quiet. But she would never get help.

SPEAKER_01: 41:27
But she just Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_05: 41:29
Yeah, I did. I did it for years and years and years I was on to her. You need to get help, you need to stop and like stop like you're not you, you're not the person I knew of all when I first met you, you're different. And yes, we all have our demons, but when you're not getting that help that you need, sometimes they've got to they've got to know when they're ready to help themselves before they can that's the first thing, like alcoholism, like drugs, everything. You've got to accept help. Once you can accept help, then things start opening up.

SPEAKER_01: 42:14
Well, I agree. I think I mean it's the same across the board. I mean, that's that's I mean that's often extreme, and it's it's just heartbreaking that you've had to live that and you lived it for so long, and I respect you for I don't it's difficult. I want to say that I respect you for staying, you stayed for the kids, but you put yourself, you were already vulnerable and you was already had your own health issues and you had to endure that every single day. It's just not fair, which is not not fair, but you're you are right in what you say in that with anything outcome mental health, you know, peep people unless you yourself are at a point where you're you're ready to say I need help and I want help. No one can tell you, no one with you could say every day to her you need you need help until she's ready and she understands and it gets to that point herself. So did she ever did she ever get help?

SPEAKER_05: 43:11
Not until I left, not until I went.

SPEAKER_01: 43:14
Really? How bad did it get during that during that time?

SPEAKER_05: 43:20
Oh, it was terrible. So a matter of a fact, where in the end, uh like the boys, they wouldn't go to their dads because they didn't like that, they didn't like the how he lived and everything else. And so me be thinking I was doing the right thing because the youngest wouldn't go, but he wanted to see his dad. So I said, Okay, your dad can come here for a for a night for one night. Wow. Well, of course that got abused, and he was here every weekend, he was there all the time because he was the ex and he and that he would like it got he would like well he'd bully me and he was horrible, he'd get the boys to bully me. And because he he was a lot stronger, and he always thought he was better, but really no, he wasn't, and then like so in the end of a well, of a three-bedroom house, I was um I was in one room, and I just stayed in one room, lived in one room while he was there, and I think to it. So there was me being accused of all sorts, when actually, in the end, she was the one. So did did she want did she want him there as well, the ex She'd say she didn't, but she but I know damn well that she she was very much there when he was there, she was very much talking to him and being involved and everything else. And she could have also said, No, that's it, come on, yeah, once is enough, but not for it to carry on. Because that was hard, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 45:02
So she presumably would have witnessed that that like bullying. That ultimately he's he's a bully, which it is not they all were. It is, I mean, that's disgusting. But so she witnessed that and allowed it to carry on.

SPEAKER_05: 45:16
Oh yeah, they and they all they all did, and like without the what the names and the what he was getting his son and paying his son to call me is unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable, you know, and it's and but I just I took it on the chin, I was like, alright, whatever, you know, okay, at the end of the day, you're living under my roof now. And I said, You may have been your roof, but it isn't anymore. You you lost that chance, and and like people said I was out of my depth and everything else. Maybe I was, but then when that door closed, they didn't see what went on. They may see this lovely lady going out in public and like going about her day, but really as soon as she shut that door, it was different.

SPEAKER_01: 46:11
That's a story that you hear so often with these sorts of situations, you know, with coercive control, with with with with abusive domestic violence. It's that's what you hear, you know. They go out and they're kind of put on this show, but they come home behind closed doors, they just they just turn. It's just it's just heartbreaking to hear.

SPEAKER_05: 46:34
Yeah, it's like obviously the main source of income was mine. And well, I she had it all, she had everything. She had every penny I had, and she would uh she would give me£20 a fortnight. And I was the one that had earned that money, I was the one that worked my ass off for that money at the time when I could do what I was doing and what I loved, and but obviously that all stopped. And like it's it took a long time because obviously I lost everybody, I lost every I was on my own, I was on my own for a long time with her because I didn't see my family for seven and a half years.

SPEAKER_01: 47:23
Oh my god. Jesus.

SPEAKER_05: 47:25
And they knew what was going on, but they didn't really know the depths of it. Sorry, until it really happened. Like, I don't feel it's normal to sit go to bed at night and sit lie by side the person that yes, you love I love, but I was falling out of love as this was coming on. I was start I was starting to dare I say, at times I hated her for what she was doing. And no one should lie in bed at night and watch that person get their wrists and self-harm. And one minute I'm talking to her, and the next minute she's covered in blood. And then I'd ask, Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? You've got I've given you my all, I'm giving you everything I've got. I can't help it, I can't help it. I and I I never understood it. So I don't get it, I never do get it, because at the end of the day, I said, You've hurt yourself now, what are you gonna do? I've got to bandage you up now. Oh, yeah, yeah, you can do that, and then a few hours later it happens again. I went and then but then I learned some of it was control. She knew exactly what she was doing because she know I would then if I was going out, if I planned to go out with said friends or my parents, and they were like, and something would happen, we'd have an argument, she'd get violent, or she'd hurt herself. So then I'd cancel.

SPEAKER_01: 49:04
So is that I mean, that is full-on coercive control. That is just the death the the the the kind of the pinnacle of that's the extreme version of that. It's you're going out with your friends, okay. I'm gonna self-harm, and then you're not gonna go out, and it's and it's also bullying you initially, and then cutting herself so you then feel sorry for her, so then she's the victim, but she's not the victim, but she's made you feel like that for that whole amount of time, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 49:37
And no, no, and like there's other things happened which I won't go into, but I will give you an idea where obviously I I live day in and day out with pain. I have done all my life, I have chronic pain because of my condition. Yeah, well, I would go every obviously. I have because of that, I have certain medications which you only can pick up say weekly, fortnightly, right? I'd have bat obviously it's back then, not now, where I'd go four four days sometimes without my medication because she took it just for the fun of it. And obviously, I couldn't say anything, I couldn't say anything to professionals or anything. I was in a position, and she knew I was in a position, because if I'd said anything, I'd have lost that script, I would have lost everything. Yeah, she just took full advantage of you in every single aspect, and yeah, and like because beforehand, yes, I had a life and I was enjoying life, and like any person in their twenties, late teens, twenties should. And I got into obviously I had a ch very good chance of work back in 2011.

SPEAKER_00: 51:07
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 51:09
Where it was an opportunity I cr I took and it was to work is to do promotion for somebody like well known. And I'd done that, I loved it, and I then carried on doing work for them, and it carried carried on to something that then it all stopped, obviously, because I couldn't do it anymore because of her, because I wasn't leaving the house. I'd go days and days and days without leaving that house.

SPEAKER_01: 51:40
Because she wouldn't let you, or because you had bruises, or because what was the reason?

SPEAKER_05: 51:44
Well well both, because she wouldn't leave because she wouldn't let me, and plus because I had I had scars, I had bruises, I I'd had cut wounds where I'd been stabbed. One night I woke up at night and she'd she cut my groin and said, I'm the only one that's gonna ever have you.

SPEAKER_01: 52:14
This is so hard to like yeah. Like and that this this this is this is hard to hear because this happens so much more than what people think.

SPEAKER_05: 52:27
It's taken me till now to actually really come out and I I've been thinking and thinking about this, and like whether today I was very cautious about today whether I was doing the right thing or not. And my friends, which we'll get on to in a minute, because the story goes on about that, where how I've come out the other side, but it was different how it happened and whether to do this or not, because obviously it's gonna be heard, it's good, but uh why not? Why shouldn't I speak now? It's been a it's been what it's been six and a half years now since I left.

SPEAKER_01: 53:09
But it's not but but I completely completely understand because it's it's I don't think you'll feel the same in 10 years, in 20 years, because it's so hard what you went through, it's so traumatic that it's not just talking about it and whether because you was in that controlled environment for so long, you still have this kind of thing where you're oh, can I say that? You're you you're you're not being controlled, but you still have that. Can I say that what's gonna happen? You have that fear and that trauma built into you.

SPEAKER_05: 53:46
Oh yeah, and you have you have that where you're like you're always checking up, like if you get and like on people that you say if you've seen somebody or anything like that, it it's hard because like they're thinking, well, that's a bit much, and it's like no no no no no, I'm not meaning to be like that. I'm just worried because now I've got something good, I don't want to lose it again, yeah. Yeah, uh because when I uh obviously one day I just snapped and clipped and left.

SPEAKER_01: 54:23
Okay. So what so so before that happened, you obviously didn't see your family for seven and a half years. What about your friendship group?

SPEAKER_05: 54:32
Because you said you've got some really good friends that you went to school with, yeah, didn't and I had friends I'd met over the years before meeting her, and I didn't see any of them, hadn't seen any of them.

SPEAKER_01: 54:45
So she just basically singled you out, you were alone, you had no support, and she took advantage.

SPEAKER_05: 54:53
Yeah, and then or she would and it was always everything was her family, gotta do everything with her family, do this, do that, and like and then it'd be like, Oh, you don't want to upset my parents because you know my dad will have you. Oh god, and it's like in the end, I I I you know I said, Look, you've had every inch of me, every piece of me, everything I've got, every bit of money I had, you have had it's like she would on the odd days where we did go out and say I'd have to go and get medication or whatever, she would come and just to try and have a bit of a normal life, go and have a coffee, blah blah blah. And I'd say, come on, let's go and do she'd go into I've got to go go to a boots or wherever, super drug or something like that. She'd be in there for a while and said, Come on, let's go and do the shopping. Oh, you'll have to give me some more money. I said, Why is that then? If you just had money, well, I've decided to spend£190 on makeup. That was for bills, and it got to a point where I ran out of money. And she would. And the odd occasion when if her family wouldn't help her, because she'd lie, and she'd say, Oh, Thomas has done this, Thomas has done this, Thomas has spent all our money, he's he's gone out, he's and I well, really, I haven't. I've been in one room, I've gone nowhere.

SPEAKER_01: 56:24
Yeah, but that's part of the control, isn't it? That's part of she's she's controlling her whole world or her whole environment.

SPEAKER_05: 56:30
Yeah, and I thought her family, I thought first for a while, I thought her family were good, they were supportive, they were nice, and everything. And then one day she'd obviously said something, she got in my face. So obviously she was right in my face, she was really at me, so I pushed her. Like, and at the end of the day, that was not me with that was self-defense, yeah. But of course, because it's a man pushing a woman, it's looked at another thing, and obviously she went off and changed it completely.

SPEAKER_03: 57:07
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 57:08
And then at that point, I knew I've got to go, I've got to, I've got to do something.

SPEAKER_01: 57:14
So that was the breaking point, was it?

SPEAKER_05: 57:16
Yeah. When she started, when when her family was you'd go because we lived in a village at the time, and we when you go and you can feel the people's it burned their eyes burning in the back of your head when everybody knew your business and all sorts was everybody was having their own ideas and saying all sorts where I was going off cheating on everybody and seeing the neighbors and everything else. Well, really, I wasn't doing any of that. She was just in her head. And really, she had everybody where I had nobody.

SPEAKER_01: 57:54
Yeah. So what did you do? What's the next what's the next step for you? What happened?

SPEAKER_05: 58:00
Well, for leaving when I left, well, she went, she she went up because we had all our bathroom kit out as a wet room because it was easier. So she went up to her fam, her parents for a bath. So within that hour, I'd left. I'd gone, I'd literally rang my dad and I said, Look, I've had enough. He said, Come on, get out now. And I bear in mind I hadn't seen them for seven and a half years.

SPEAKER_01: 58:32
Had there been any contact with your parents during that time?

SPEAKER_05: 58:37
Probably Christmas, birthdays, but there'd be a present left on the door because she wouldn't let me go down and answer that door. And it got to a point where it was just they were just solely wanting me out, you could tell. Like my sister had basically at the time somehow managed to get a message through to me and said, like, if you leave her, we will be there for you. Yeah. They weren't, but that's what they said at the time. And so I literally turned up in a taxi with no money to pay that taxi, which that was my pride gone because I'd always been that one that always liked to pay, always like to it's like my people that know me in my own phone who'd say, When I meet a girl, I'll give them the world. I would do absolutely anything, but not when it's taken full advantage of like that.

SPEAKER_01: 59:35
But even still, you know, you you still did, you still gave her everything for for six, seven, eight years.

SPEAKER_05: 59:42
Yeah, yeah. And I so I turned up on my parents' doorstep knocking on that door with just literally the shirt on my back. That's all I had.

SPEAKER_01: 59:57
I know it takes your pride. I mean, I mean, look, just to kind of relate and and and our stories are very very different I get that but I was always I had a career and I was always brought up to provide and you look after your family you you do this and I got to a point where I and I was always the one if someone needed something they'd come to me because I'd worked hard in a career then I was doing well in social media and we had this thing and I'd be the one that I'd be able to help people and then I I remember I had to I probably sat in my room for three four days knowing that I had bills to pay and I couldn't do it because I couldn't I couldn't make content because I couldn't be funny and I couldn't do this couldn't do that and I couldn't and I was I had to phone I couldn't even phone I and my dad no my dad's old school and my mum you know they're old school so if you want something from them you phone them and ask them but I couldn't I text them and said I need money I need so I need some help I need some money and they haven't got they haven't got much but my dad to be fair he phoned me up he said look talk to me and I had to it's just it's just it was embarrassing for me it shouldn't be embarrassing because they're you know they're my mum and dad and they they just want to help and they'll be there when you need them but yeah I just I was in bits on the phone and dad was like look I'll scrape together everything I've got it and you can have it and you know but it's like I relate in a way with families because yeah obviously I come from a big family my mum was one of thirteen.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:27
Oh wow okay and my dad was one of nine so that's huge and and when I came out all my aunts and uncles obviously they all had their own opinions because on the odds occasion they did meet her because we'd be at a wedding and I always remember my sister's wedding she didn't like my sister because she had when we first started dating she saw her quite a bit when we first because she was totally different. She was a nice girl when I first met her and she didn't like her she just sat at the table and got her tablet out at a wedding and just done that. That's ideally and it was like that was a point where everyone was like looking at me saying come on you've got to do something. Yeah and it was like you don't know her. It's like I went through so many operations where my family should have been there. ICU transfusions after transfusion which I still have now and where they should have been there with me for me but she'd just pushed them all away she'd say I didn't want anything to do with them and and she'd she'd send texts on my phone and my mum would say to this day she knew it wasn't me because the way things the way things were spelt the way she said things wasn't me. It wasn't the way I'd say things so when I did cut out it it took its time it took its time for me to even pick up and even think of dating again. Yeah yeah of course and and it I met this person I met a friend through basically a problem that something that happened she obviously then I left and she went back on the on the dating scene even though she ended back up with the boy's dad which was a foregone conclusion in my head yeah well that's I would not be surprised at all and she uh but she did go on the dating scene and she met this guy because she she'd still try and contact me and try and make me jealous yeah when of course I wasn't jealous because I knew what was gonna happen to them eventually yeah and I did everything I could to try and stop that at times. I really did for all them but she sent me a photo of this guy and then I thought hang on a minute I recognize them and I thought well that's somebody I know their their partner they're with somebody oh god so of course rightly or wrongly I correct I could I I contacted that partner the person I knew and said look your partner's with somebody You're with they're with my wife you know they're seeing my wife at the time we were still married and I was like I was like you need that's not good you need to sort something they need to get out quick get out of that and obviously they did that before finished and but that made me closer to this particular person and they've become my closest friend where we do everything together and we see each other all the time and and I and people say to this day and we talk they sort my they did sort things out in the end and stayed together. But it took a long time it was about three years before they got back together. Okay and I always said to this day I have no shame in doing what I done because if I can stop anybody going getting involved with anything that I did or going through what I did I do it every time and time again you know and I've done it I've done it just not just for that person I've done it for their partner as well because I knew how they had a family they had everything.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:36
Yeah you know and I knew they would just through that moment of madness where sometimes in life as guys will think the grass is greener on the other side when really it's not I unfortunately that's that's that's the world we live in where everyone does think the grass is greener on the other side which it is you know it's not the grass is greener where you where you water it is is what they say and it's it's you know with a lot of this dating and the new dating everyone everyone and it's difficult because I don't think there's a lot of genuine genuine people whenever you meet someone you're gonna put on a version the best possible version of yourself and you're not gonna see the real person this happened to you you're not gonna see the real person until you're six months down the line a year down the line and that's why I find it so difficult when you know kids are involved and you don't know that real person you can't possibly know that real person within a few weeks a few months it's it's gonna take a year to really know and people start letting their guard down yeah and I let my guard down too soon I know I did now and I've learned a lot from that but going back to that marriage it got to a point where she got obsessed with trying for a baby okay another baby where where basically in the end it was no longer fun it was just a chore and I do everything I could to not do it and get out of that because I didn't want to bring a baby into that situation. No yeah fair place I mean that's a really difficult that's just another thing to juggle like mental health wise you just must have have been really struggling through that whole period.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:24
I was because I had nobody I knew well I did I had a c I have a cousin that I'm very close to and on the odd occasion she'd find a text on her phone from me and it'd be where I'd shut myself in the bathroom and texted her on the toilet and I'd text her and code but then make sure I've deleted that text. But obviously on the odd occasion you forget yeah and that text got found so I'd get beaten I knew if I'd gone out and had a even tried to go out and have a drink down the pub just for a bit of normality she'd phone a sister live two minutes from the pub and see where I was yeah or she'd be on the phone on my stag dude I had to be home by midnight.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:11
Oh my god honestly it just gets worse well look moving moving forward because we're nearing the end of the episode but you you you clearly I can't e I can't even imagine the struggles that you you went through but what would you say to anyone who there's I think if you're in that situation you know you know the signs because there's so much education out there like you knew what was going on but you just couldn't do anything about it but what would you say to anyone that is in that situation that even though when you think you're alone you're not alone and when you get that moment to leave you leave but it will even when you leave it's still not over it takes a long time.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:00
Yeah and even and never go back into anything like full throttle again I wouldn't no dating's been an absolute pain and it's been horrible I've some I've been on my own basically all this time ever since.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:14
Well you put your walls up how are you supposed to trust someone again after that I I have met somebody and they're brilliant they're amazing they're we vibe and it's brilliant but again my walls and my guards up give me up for a very very long time. Yeah yeah that's that and that's the problem I think you know I've I've I've had exactly the same I've met people and I've met people a lot a lot you know in this this last 18 months but my my walls are just my guards up I can't I can't trust anyone I can't trust anyone it's it's I'm just not you'll know you'll know when you're ready and you know the right person will come along when you're when you're least expecting it. But okay well look we we we always like to end on something a bit more positive because these episodes can get really really heavy so I always like to ask if it's something really positive that's happened to you recently or something that's made you laugh or or or a joke that you find funny just anything that's a bit more positive and up and upbeat that we can end the episode on.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:16
This is where I'll put people on the spot Thomas is my favourite part of the episode well it's it's my love for theatre for music yeah I do a lot of that and like I I thought about coming into social media myself and doing the theatre and gig reviews. Yeah but it didn't start very well and it hasn't but I'm gonna continue and try and get something going. If you've got a passion for something Thomas then yeah go for it and like it's like that's what me and my friends and the girl I've been well we've been talking for a long time now and things are going well and she's got a passion for that so that's my main focus is just gigs and theatre and just enjoying life and that and like just every every hurdle that comes across I will battle it until the end because my life is limited I know that but I just I carry on until till the end.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:16
Thomas you know I've got huge respect for you the for just just not just what you've been through in in your relationship in your marriage but just in life what you've what you've been through and what you have to deal with on a daily basis but you know what you're still getting up you're still you've got a good friendship group around you and you're going out enjoying life and I've got so much respect for you Thomas so listen thank you so much for coming on the podcast thank you for talking to me and yeah we'll stay in touch I'd you know I'd love to stay in touch with you keep me updated and we'll catch up soon. Yeah I do thank you very much lovely thank you Thomas I'll talk to you soon bye I mean I can't I was nearly in tears hearing what he had to sit and witness someone he loved he cared about he shouldn't have he shouldn't have loved shouldn't have cared about that person because of what they put him through coercive control domestic violence I think the message is look if there's signs get out just get out there will be people there that can support you I know you might think I can't I'm alone I've got no one my family I've alienated them I've alienated my friends trust believe me that's not the case that is not the case just get out I can't even it's heartbreaking and I think the problem is this this happens so much more than we think and it could be happening and it's it could be happening to one of your friends it could be happening to one of your family members and it's nearly impossible unless they tell you. So look for the signs look for the signs and I just it's I just I really hope that this episode reaches the right person that just needs to hear that they're not alone today. You're not alone get out make a change do something that was a hot one that was a tough one for me it's definitely not therapy.