Age is just a number- Starting over at 31, 42 and 50 with Zulma Williams

We sit with therapist and survivor Zulma Williams to explore resilience, reinvention at midlife, and how a mindset shift from why me to why not me can turn pain into purpose. She shares grounding tools for anxiety, myths about trauma, and why healing is hard but worth it.

Zulma Williams is the founder of Dragonfly Therapy Services and the main provider of therapeutic services. Zulma was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and moved to the United States when she was 31 years old. After working in the accounting field for several years, Zulma decided that she was ready for a career change and worked toward her goal of becoming a social worker. She completed her Bachelor of Social Work at age 46 and then was diagnosed with breast cancer. To focus on her health, she moved back to Argentina to have family support and complete treatment. After becoming a breast cancer survivor, Zulma moved back to Las Vegas and enrolled in the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, Advanced Master of Social Work program at the age of 50. Zulma completed her degree and clinical hours and is a licensed clinical social worker. 

Her specialty of practice is working with adults who struggle with anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder. Zulma is a certified Master ART® Practitioner. ART® is a specialized, evidence-based, short-term psychotherapy technique that focuses on rapid recovery from trauma. 

Connect with Zulma-https://www.dragonflytherapyservices.net/

https://www.instagram.com/theswearingtherapist/

Keeping it Real Podcast-
https://open.spotify.com/show/62zkFh5mzb5mkScrew0HCX?si=f4158e908125436a

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Transcript

Setting The Tone For Healing

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi everybody, welcome back to the self-help podcast with Meetapoddy. And this is the podcast where we tell stories that whisper me too and I'm not alone. The space where we explored the deep, real, raw parts of being human. And today I want to start with a question. Have you ever had a moment in your life where you looked at yourself in the mirror and thought if I don't fight for myself now, I may never get another chance. That moment, that inner breaking, and that breaking open is what today's conversation is all about. Because today I am joined by a woman whose story is not just inspiring, it is evidence. Evidence that courage is a muscle, evidence that resilience is learned, and evidence that healing is messy but possible. My guest for today is the extraordinary Zulma Williams, a warrior in every true sense of the word. Zulma was born and raised in Argentina and she immigrated to the US at the age of 31. At an age when most people feel like life should be figured out, Zulma hit reset completely. She earned her Bachelor's of Social Work at 42 and her master's at 50, became fully licensed and then went on to build her own practice, Dragonfly Therapy Services. She specializes in trauma, anxiety, and depression, not just from the textbooks, but really from life. Zulma survived breast cancer, depression, and through all of it, she never once claimed the title of victim. Instead, she chose to honor the warrior within her, and now she helps others do exactly the same. Zulma, I'm so honored, so grateful, and deeply excited to have you here. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. Wonderful. Thank you once again for being here. And today, for all our listeners, I want to create a space that feels safe, slow, and sacred. Space where we can talk about trauma, healing, identity, loss, grief, and just personal power, not from a place of performance or perfection, but from a place of truth. So for anyone listening to this, take what lands, leave what doesn't, and honor your pace. Let's dive right into it. Azulma, people know you today for being the therapist, the survivor, the warrior. But let's start from the very beginning. Let's start by knowing a little bit about who you were as a young woman growing up in Argentina and what shaped your worldview in those early years.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yes, so I am the baby of four and my parents separated when I was eight years old. So it was just growing up, it was just my mom and I. I will see my dad every other weekend, but it most of the time it was just living with my mom. She was a stay-at-home mom, so it's like she she was there when I came back from school. My siblings are 10 and 7 years older than me, so it's like they they were already teenagers by the time that my parents separated, so it was mostly her and I. I started, I graduated high school, started working at 19, and it was like a regular normal life. I didn't know any different or any better. And it was, I would say that they were happy times.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

So were you always someone who felt deeply about things ever since you were a kid, and now that you're on this side of the journey, did you always feel deeply about things growing up?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yes, I think that it's part I'm very passionate. It's part of the culture, it's part of uh who I am. We are very passionate about soccer in Argentina. We're passionate about a lot of things, but especially soccer, and I think that it becomes kind of like part of your personality growing in that environment because it's like wow, like we are it's everything is so extreme. And I try not to be so black and white now, but at the time, yeah, I'm I'm a very passionate person since I remember.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

And I think it's always so important to be passionate about a few things in life. I think our passion drives our purpose and you know helps us on our path. So looking back, what parts of your childhood you now see echoing into your adulthood? What what do you still carry within you?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

I think that like being able to um observe from now, right? Like when I look back, that there were uh several times growing up that things were very hard, especially when my dad left and money was tight, and there were a lot of fights between my parents, but I not in front of me, so I was very sheltered growing up, but yet there were certain things that could not be avoided, and being able to look back at that and and see myself as like you were a warrior even before you knew what that that war meant, right? Like uh but again, like I didn't know better, right? So it's not like oh I know like how other parents are. I thought that everybody was like my parents. Because if you you're a kid and and you really cannot compare, right? Like so.

Immigrating And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_02 5:59

And so as you said, like you were a true warrior before you even knew the meaning of that word, before you even knew what that actually even meant, because you know your life journey is uh is a testimony to that. You moved to the US at the age of 31. You are an immigrant, and so am I, and I relate to every bit of the word that you say. And 31 is usually an age where it's a time when most people are building stability and not really starting over. So so tell us about what made you take that leap and what was the hardest part of starting over in a completely new country?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yes. So I was 31, I was living with my mom because for the last two years uh I didn't have a job, and I always had this dream since I was a teenager of moving to America. So I don't know why. It was like, you know, I guess the movies made it so attractive. So I was living with my mom, I didn't have a job, I didn't have a car, I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, I don't have kids. And when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. So I had a cousin who so I was toying with the idea of coming to America, but what really made me go for it was I had a cousin who was 32 and he died unexpectedly. He had a stroke and died. And I was like, oh, like, you know, like when at in your 30s, you think you have your entire life in front of you, and that was such a reality check that like oh like I better start planning my trip now. And six months after my my cousin died, um I came to America. So that um that unfortunate situation was what pushed me to take action, right? Like in like getting out of my head and doing it. And you know, one of the hardest things about coming to this country was like the culture difference, the language difference. I didn't speak English at the time. I knew how to write and read English because I had English uh throughout high school, but there were so many students in the classroom that we didn't have time to practice uh conversation, right? I could uh write and read, but I couldn't speak it. And I remember it's a all the little things, right? I can remember going to a fast food place and seeing people putting ketchup on their fries. And I was like, you, why would you put ketchup on your fries? And now I cannot eat my fries without ketchup, right? Like, but it was one of the it's such a little thing, but it was so different, right? And I was like, you, they put ketchup on everything, so but it was it was a huge cultural shock. Um, if anything, it made me appreciate things here a lot more because when you come from nothing, it's like you truly appreciate things that a lot of people who have been born and raised here take for granted. Right? Like we I put a different value and a different appreciation in a job and in being able to rent an apartment and in having a car, although it's a used car, but it was taking me everywhere I wanted to go. And I didn't have those things. I was 31 and still living with my mom, right? So I really appreciated all those opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Beautiful, and yeah, and I and as you said, that was a small example, but it stood out for you. It became a highlight because it was something which was done so differently when you came here. And I believe a lot of immigrants and a lot of people who change and move countries and go into completely uncharted territories do realize that. So, speaking of the cultural shock, Zolma, did you initially struggle with identity, with belonging, or just loneliness when you when you found yourself here?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Uh a little bit. Not my identity, but yes, I had hard times, especially trying to speak the language. I was taking classes, English, English as second language classes. But it was very similar to what I experienced in Argentina because there were so many of us that we didn't have time to practice the conversation part of the language. So I'd been bullied about my accent or about mispronouncing a word, but on the other hand, I also had a lot of people who really appreciated that I was trying to learn the language and they were very helpful. So it's a top it is kind of like a tie between being bullied and the people who were there to truly encourage me and help me on my journey to being able to communicate better.

Building Resilience In A New Country

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Yeah, yeah, and I feel like it's such an important part of your entire experience that even though you did have some naysayers or you know, people who weren't as appreciative, but on the other side you do have a bunch of people who become your support system who help you get to where you want to be. So, what did your early years in the US teach you about resilience? I mean, I'm very sure that you have been resilient all your life and that's how you made that big leap. How did the early years in the US shape you?

SPEAKER_00 12:05

So at the time I didn't even know I was being resilient. Like I made the decision and I was following through, and that's what I needed to do, right? Like just keep uh keep working hard and keep putting one foot in front of the others. But being here, what kept me going in in the early years was that I was so appreciative of that with with a job I could rent my own apartment, right? Like in and have my own space. And those were things like in Argentina, even if I had a job, was gonna, I wouldn't have been able to rent an apartment on my own. So I would still have to live with my mom. And being able to, and I'm talking like a regular kind of like minimum wage type of job, right? Like so being able to be independent and to provide for myself was huge.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

That that really drives you and gives you a sense of purpose and you know fulfillment as you move forward. So yes, yeah, that's very inspiring. And I and I love that you started your bachelor's at 42. It's very powerful but rare, right? So, what what inspired that decision for you to go and pursue bachelors?

Going Back To School At 42

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah, so I was um I was 42, I was working in accounting in a corporation, and um I was kind of like thinking about my future. I'm like, I'm not sure I wanna continue to do this for another 20-25 years, and then I start um you know thinking about what what I'm really passionate about, and I'm passionate about helping people, so I was like, oh okay, I wanna go the therapy route, and what do I need to do in order to achieve that? And it was to go to school, and I think that it's important for people because a lot of times we think, oh, in order to build the new, I had to destroy the old. No, no, no, I was doing both things in parallel. So while I started school, I still continue my job in accounting because I still had to pay bills, right? I still had to pay the rent, I had to eat. So I did both in parallel. So while I still was doing what I was doing at the time, I was building a different future. But at the same time, so I was like, okay, so I have this job, I don't want to do it for another 25 years. What can I do now to start building a different future? I need to go to school. Okay. Well, I want to be a therapist. I didn't need to go to school, but in order to be a therapist, I needed to go to school. So that's what I did. In a lot of times, we kind of like miss that step, right? Like you say, oh, I I want it and I want it now. Or people looking at my present right now and being like, she has it easy. This all started in 2007 when I took my first English 101 class in college, right? Like, I mean, this is not something that happens overnight, and sometimes we forget that we get impatient, but like you can start building a different future today, but you had to make that decision for yourself, and you can start right where you are because life is always going to happen. Oh, when I blah blah blah, then I blah blah blah. When I get married, when I divorce, when I lose weight, when I gain weight, when I now the time is now right now, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah, we always feel like okay, let's wait for the weekend, let's wait for the right or the special occasion to wear the dress. And now I remind myself, no, there is no special occasion. Every day is special. So why am I saving that dress for? Exactly. I'm waiting for a Friday to feel happy. I can feel happy on a Tuesday morning while working because I love that.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

You know why today is on a special occasion? Because you woke up and you're alive, right? Like a lot of times when my mom passed away, I was going through her clothes, and there were a lot of clothes and still had the tag attached. And it's like, okay, nobody's gonna wear them now, or a different person is gonna enjoy them, but not her, and that those clothes were for her, right? Like it's just like, well, I just wait for the special occasion. You are you're alive and you are breathing and you are moving.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

That is on a special occasion, that itself deserves to be celebrated, and we we we are so tuned to keep forgetting this basic fundamental gift of life that we have that we we like blindsided into other things, like okay, let's save up for this and let's save up for that. But I like ever since I got my reality check, I keep reminding myself and my family no, don't save for that special occasion. Like, don't save that special dish for someone who's gonna come over to your place for a guest. No, we can have the special dish made when the guest is here, but you might as well have it right now for yourself, for your kids, for your parents. Yeah. So I know it can feel a little intimidating in the moment when you make a powerful decision to move forward and in your case, you know, pursue, take that bachelor's degree because you want to be a therapist. So, did you ever feel too old to try, especially when you were going to to the school with with with kids of you know less less than your age, right? They were they could probably be in their early 20s, right? So, did you ever feel that way? I I'm sure I know the answer is no, but just so that our listening audience gets some context into how did you navigate that tough decision while you were just going to school?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Right. No, uh yes, you are absolutely right. The answer is no. I never felt like I was too old. Like I was the mom of the class because you know the bachelor's degree kids from high school, right? Like they're in their 1820s. Um but um I never felt, I mean, I knew I was I in in certain occasions I was even older than the professor. But I never felt like, oh, I'm not I'm not where I I don't suppose to be here. Like, uh-uh. Like, you know, if anything, the kids kept me young, right? Because they were teaching me about social media and the internet and all those things, because it's like, what do I know about those things at that age? If anything, my experience in higher education as an older student was very positive because the professors did I had this is my experience that I had professors really appreciating me being there because they knew I was there because I really wanted to do it, right? Like I really wanted to be there, and I was the one to read everywhere in the chapter, right? Like and make prepare for the test and all those things because I didn't have time to waste, right? Like, so I'm not 18, I'm 42, so you know, as long as I have my entire life in front of me to figure it out. Like I knew what the goal was, and and I was very focused on that.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yeah, and and and you just keep fueling your commitment to your plan, and and also a great reminder for everybody that it's not really what things you see, but it's how you see things, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Wonderful, and so as you were going with this plan and like your purpose and your path, and just like I know two months after graduating, you were diagnosed with breast cancer. Now, nothing really prepares you for that moment when you hear the words you have cancer. I feel like our life is split into two before and after. So take us through what went through your mind and your heart and and what just kept you going during those tough months of your diagnosis.

Cancer Diagnosis And Mindset Shift

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yes, so I graduated, uh, I was on track to do my master's, and I had found a lamp on my right breast, and I had a mammogram, and then I was sent to a doctor, and then the doctor did an ultrasound. He said, I don't like what I'm seeing, I want to do a biopsy, and but meanwhile I'm I'm in la la la. Like nobody's saying anything about cancer. So I'm like, okay, like this was a biopsy, right? Like, and then um it came back that it was cancer, and my first reaction was why me. Yes, right? Like, and you are absolutely right, there is a before and after in your life after hearing those words, and I was like, why me? Like, you know, be I wanted to go do my masters, I and but then I start reflecting, and I don't have children, but uh at that time my mom was alive, so I have the mom, I had a sister, I have nieces, I have girlfriends, and I start uh questioning like if it's not me, would I prefer that it was one of them? And the answer is no. So then I move the question from why me, which is indicative of a victim mentality, to why not me. Right? And then once I move into this different mindset of why not me, now I have a decision to make. I can sit in the corner and cry myself and wait uh wait to die, or I can stand up and fight. Here I am, I've been winning for the last 13 years. Oh right, but it's like I think that your mindset has a lot to do with it because we when we start thinking like why me? What life happens to everybody? Why not you? Why not me?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

And it's almost in those tough moments, Ulma. I feel like we like our sense of entitlement is questioned, right? Like, because we think about bad things, but we don't think that these bad things can ever happen to us until they happen to us, right? And then like, okay, like, but we were living in this bubble of false sense of entitlement. No, these terrible things do happen in in the world, but maybe not with me. So it takes a lot of unlearning and a lot of shock and grief to really go in that mindset of hmm, okay, now this has happened with me, but now it's all about what I make of it. Instead of, you know, as you rightly said, sit and cry and wait to die. Yes, yes, but when you change that narrative, you then have the power all by yourself to okay, this is my problem. Now, what do I do with the problem? Now, do I look for solutions or I still wait and just sit and cry in the corner?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Right, absolutely, because then you get stuck in the problem instead of looking for solutions, right? And then the solutions are not gonna show up if you are only looking at the problem and that's the only thing you're focusing on, then you're gonna miss the potential solutions.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

So during those times, did your relationship with yourself change or with the family, with the people around you? How did how did you change as a person after that?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

I re-prioritized, so I realized I was at the bottom of the list, and I moved myself to the top. I prioritized myself, I didn't apologize for putting myself first, and that is something very common, especially for women, and I'm overgeneralizing here, and especially if you're a mom, again, like I don't have children, but if you're a mom, it's like no, everybody else comes first.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

First, caregiver, and you automatically, you know, put yourself last and everybody else first.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yes, and if you don't take care of you, how can you take care of your children and the other people in your life, right? Like, so the best gift that you can give yourself and others is to take care of you. So this diagnosis came to put reprioritize myself and put me at the top, and taking care of me was the main goal. My life, literally, my life depended on it.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Yeah, indeed. And how did it change your perception about your own body and your own soul? I mean, I'm sure you you bought in a lot of acceptance into who you are, and you know, start a great deal of appreciation for your body, but what was it for you personally?

Reprioritizing Self And Body Acceptance

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, always so my body changed. So I had a lympectomy, which is a breast conserving surgery, they just removed the tumor, but uh my breasts have a difference in size, of course, and it was a lot of adjustment to that, looking in the mirror and and accepting this new version of myself, right? Because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, and I had to regain that confidence that it's like this is my body now, right? Yeah, which is not necessarily me, my body, sense of normal that you have to learn to accept, right, and start loving this new version of me, and from the soul perspective, I was looking for what is the lesson that I have to learn, right? Because I always say to my clients, we are either happy or we are learning something. Right? Like, so if if I'm not happy, what is the lesson that I'm learning? And the lesson that I learned is that if anything, cancer came to my life to prove to me how bad I wanted to be a therapist because it only delayed me, it didn't stop me. I got better and then I went back to school to do my master's. So if nothing else, it showed me like, yeah, I really wanted this and I'm gonna go for it. So just added fuel to your fire, isn't it? Exactly, and I bring that to so I cannot separate who I am as a person from my role as a therapist. It's all of me that comes into the office, and having experienced this trauma and all the anxiety and the depression that came with it, and the uncertainty helps me connect with my clients at a different level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Yeah, and you've lived through so much, right? Depression, anxiety, and these are heavy experiences, but also shared and common experiences by so many of our listeners, including me on the other side of the mic, all those beautiful women listening to us today. So as I was telling you the other day, it's like a therapy that that you know I'm in a therapy call, I'm with my therapist, Zulma, and I'm your experiences, I'm learning so much from you. Because sometimes it's very like I understand things, but it's also at times very difficult for me to implement it, right? Like if I go into that spiral of anxious negative thoughts, it's it's difficult to break that pattern and come out of it. So take us through what helped you break that cycle of depression and anxiety, and how did you teach yourself to know better and do better, really? Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Coming back to the present moment. So anxiety is in a nutshell is about trying to control the future, which is impossible because the future is not even here, and depression is about feeling guilty for decisions that we have made in the past. So coming back to the present moment, like right now, right at this moment, I'm present with you doing this podcast. There is there is no anxiety and there is no depression because I'm fully present in this moment. So at that time when I was going through my treatment, coming back to the present moment, and when I had my bad days, a reminder that these two shall pass. Today is a bad day, but tomorrow might be better. So I have to continue to put one foot in front of the other to overcome today that is a bad day, not anticipating that every day is gonna be a bad day. Because that's what life is all about, right? Like we all have good days and bad days, and you don't have to have cancer for that, but even in regular Of life, we have good days and we have bad days. Well, what are we gonna do about it? Keep pushing through the bad day so that the better day can can come, right? Like so it's like about being uh in the present moment. So it's like if I had a treatment that I particularly didn't want to do that day or whatever, uh I didn't think about all the treatments I had to do. I was focusing on that particular treatment. Like today I have a treatment, so I had to do this treatment. I cannot be worrying about the other 15 that are remaining. Like I came back to the present moment about this treatment, and I talked myself into doing this treatment right now. And then, you know, tomorrow might be a better day.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yeah.

From Patient To Therapist: Deeper Empathy

SPEAKER_02 31:01

But today may be a very bad day, but you know, tomorrow can be the best day of your life. So you just have to track on until you get there. And we somehow gave up, you know, just between the two. Wondering, okay, why is this happening to me? It's a terrible day. Often forgetting that tomorrow can be a bigger and a better day for you. It's just about how the light shines on you, right? Yes, I know what you're saying, and it's so important to remind ourselves of this because it can be so easy to just get caught up in your own head and in your own feelings. And I also love the analogy that you give about just next 15 minutes. So I don't have to work out the entire hour because I hate strength training, but I know I have to do it. So I'm like, okay, maybe 10 minutes in the gym, maybe 10 minutes on the treadmill, and then I'm done. But like when you're you know doing the treadmill or you're dancing, or you know, you just pick up the weight, you're like, maybe I could do it for maybe 10 more minutes, and and in no time you realize it's already 45 minutes in the gym, and that's how you exactly the fact that you hate doing that.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Anything that you need to do it can be broken down into 15 minutes increments, right? So if I ask you to train for the rest of your life, you're not gonna even register in to the gym. But if I say, well, how about you train for 15 minutes? Oh, I I can do that, right? Yeah, that's right. And then you rinse and repeat. Four of those make one hour, and 24 of those make one day, and seven of those make one week, and so on and so forth. So I'm happy to report that I've been 13 years cancer-free. But how I achieved this was one day at a time, one hour at a time, 15 minutes at a time. Right, like so those days that I didn't want to go do my treatment. It was one treatment at a time.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

And so, what I mainly love most about your story, Zolma, is your refusal to identify yourself as a victim. So, where does that strength in you come from? And what would you say to someone who feels broken right now as we are as we go about this podcast? Like if I feel heartbroken and depressed, what's your message here?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

My message is that if you woke up today, that means that your mission in life is not complete. So keep putting one foot in front of the other, and you're gonna come out on the other side of the challenge that you're currently facing, and you don't even have to believe me. Just look back at your own life and all the challenges that you already overcame. You have a hundred percent track record of being successful at overcoming challenges. How do I know? Because you are here, so all those challenges that you've been through could not take you out. Why is this the challenge that is gonna take you out? You've been through a lot, we all have been. So it's like just reminding yourself that and at the time that you were going through those challenges, please remember you didn't have all the answers, you just kept putting one foot in front of the other, so you don't have to have all the answers to move forward now either. You're going to figure it out now. You put that foot in front of the other in the dark, and I understand that it's scary, but it's like not about not falling, it's about not remaining on the ground. So if you fall seven times, you get up eight, right? So as far as whatever it is that you are going through, you cannot you refuse to get stuck, and you continue to even if the step is minimal, if you're still moving, that means that you are not longer on the ground.

Breaking Anxiety Spirals With Presence

SPEAKER_02 35:24

So just keep putting that foot in front of the other, just one next step, one next step, and you'll reach where you're supposed to go. That's such a reminder. Yeah. So you're now the founder of the dragonfly therapy services. Soulman, I can clearly say you are so passionate about helping people, um, and you specialize in trauma, anxiety, and depression. Uh, so why did you choose the word dragonfly and what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 35:54

So dragonflies they fly uh on the surface of the water and they eat all the bacteria that is um there which allows the light to go into the ocean, right? So it's very symbolic in a sense of like uh dragonflies symbolizes the change that comes from within, and that is the main thing in therapy, right? Like, I don't have the answers. We are gonna find the answers together by allowing yourself to look for those answers. Um, is the change that comes from within.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah, and and to just go with that, I recently, very recently, in fact, came across this beautiful quote, Sulma, and it's it's now my favorite forever. And it says there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in. And this is such a simple statement, but yet so profound. Wow, yes, I love it. I was planning to put it up on my website. Maybe I should do that. I love it, and it's a reminder that our that our imperfections are not something we should be ashamed of, really, but it's everything that we have to celebrate. They are the openings through which our growth, our creativity, and understanding can enter our lives. So every time I look at one of my scars, I'm like, no, that's not my defeat. It is exactly how the wisdom came in that I needed the most, right? Like, they're like, okay, why I look at it as failure. No, you didn't fail. That's that's cancerous scar is not to remind you of anything but your growth as a human that you won, right? It's your journey. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

So my scar reminds me of how strong I am.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Beautiful. Yeah. And so that's how the light came inside. Yeah, so yeah, and and you deal with so many, you've helped hundreds and thousands of people. Tell me about the most misunderstood thing about trauma that you see with people. Like, what's the most misunderstood thing about trauma and healing, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 38:11

I'm the only one going through it. We all go to traumatic events. Um you're not a special trauma is an equally opportunity offender, okay? So in you don't have to do it alone. If I can if I can give a message to the world, it's like you can do it alone, but you don't have to. Simply because you can take a punch doesn't mean that you live in the ring. Okay, so there is help out there. There is therapy, there is um alternative therapies. Talk to somebody like you don't have to do it alone. Is it is a lot therapy is hard enough when you are doing it with the right person. So I always tell my clients, it's going to be hard, but it's it's worth it, right? It's not about it being easy, it's about you knowing that you deserve this healing for you and for your loved ones. Again, like you put yourself first, you are becoming a healthier person, so you're gonna be a healthier mom and a healthier partner and a healthier daughter and a healthier, right? Like everyone you can influences everything because you are making yourself better, so it is hard, is but it's worth it, and you don't have to do it alone.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

And you can never pull from an empty cup, like literally and figuratively, every exactly you can't do that, right? So yeah, you have to fill in your cup first before you decide, okay, I'm gonna be the best daughter, I'm gonna be the best mom and the best wife. You look at yourself and say, I'm going to be the best, most authentic version of myself or myself first, and then you move on from there, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Yes. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, Zona, what's the take us through what's the big myth that you know about the mental health that you wanna rewrite with people that you come across, right? Like you think about okay, this is the biggest myth out there about the mental health zone.

Refusing Victimhood And Finding Strength

Why Dragonfly: Change From Within

SPEAKER_00 40:40

The the stigma attached to it, right? Because it's like if any if you get diagnosed with uh diabetes, I'm not gonna come with a dozen donuts and tell you you're gonna be okay, right? But if you have depression or anxiety, it's like oh you're gonna you're gonna be you're fine, right? I think that it's because we cannot see it, it's not concrete, right? Like we we understand cancer, we understand diabetes, we understand high blood pressure, and anxiety, depression are so subjective trauma, right? Like trauma trauma is so subjective because the same event we can be in the same event, it might be traumatic to me and not traumatic to you, right? Because trauma is so subjective. So because we cannot see it, it's so hard to understand, and also it's a huge cultural aspect to mental health, to where, like, especially in the uh Hispanic community, it's like no no, we don't talk to an stranger, like you talk to abuelita. Abuelita is the one who created the original trauma, okay? So we need to talk to a stranger about abuelita. It is like it's the cultural part is so strong sometimes, and it's like you have to and and the other thing is that once you start uh healing, the dysfunction becomes so clear that you it's not it's not like people are especially uh people in your family, they're gonna be like, oh, so you think you're all that like why are you bringing that up? Because this is unhealthy, that's why I'm bringing it up, but because they are in the in the middle of the dysfunction, they cannot see it. They always say, like, if you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture, right? Really, so it's like simply because you want to get better, it doesn't mean that your family does or is gonna be happy about that. So it's like about you have to focus on yourself, and I always say you need to live by example. So, like I have clients telling me, oh, my husband needs therapy or my mom needs therapy. I'm like, okay, you don't tell people what to do. If you want someone to consider therapy, yeah, I'll encourage you to lead by example. So you will tell them, like, you know, I didn't believe in therapy, but I start therapy and I do feel better because A, B, and C. Because of so and so might inspire me to look for a therapist rather than you telling me, like, oh, you need therapy, right? Like, if I told you, like, oh, you need to go to the gym, okay, let's go together. No, no, I'm not going. You need to go to the gym. Yeah, then you never see me in the gym. That might inspire me to go to the next video rather than you telling me that I have to do it. We we are all adults, we don't like to be told what to do. But when I start and never underestimate the power of planting a seed. When you once you plant the seed, the tree doesn't grow overnight. But that doesn't mean that is nothing is happening, right? So you might mention like how um much better or how uh having a different perspective is is so helpful to you. And you never know who's listening and paying attention and who you are inspiring to uh for them to look for their own therapy. So I'll I say that my job as a therapist is to provide you with a different perspective. So you you told me something and I'm all I might say to you, like, oh have you considered blah blah blah? And that's not something that a friend well I talk to my friends, I don't need therapy. Well, your friends are going to be unconditionally on your side, right? So let's say that you are in an abusive relationship, and you tell your friend, and your friend's gonna be like, Oh yeah, he is so abusive, you need to leave him, blah blah blah, right? Like, and me as a therapist will say all those things, but also will ask you, like, do you see a pattern here? Why is it that you keep attracting maybe patterns who are not emotionally available or that abusive or right? Like, so because otherwise you're just changing faces. But it's keep it John and it's Paul and it's Peter, but it's like the common denominator is you. So, why is it that you keep attracting this type of relationships into your life? So that will help you heal that part that needs to be healed, and therefore, you're gonna attract healthier relationships, right? So that's the difference between therapy and your friend. Yes, talk to your friends, I'm all for friendship. I have my girlfriends, and I also have my therapist. So I told my clients, I go my therapist, and they're like, Oh, you go to therapy? You bet I go to therapy. I'm human too, you know, like do everything. You talk about me in therapy? The last thing I do is talk about you in therapy, like I talk about my own stuff. With my therapist, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Yeah, yeah. And you were so bad on Zurma when you said it's so like deeply ingrained in our culture and like just the cultural conditioning that we've all had since our childhood. That mental health as a concept, like overall, is generally seen as a taboo, right? And you know, if you're depressed or you're anxious, you're often encouraged to just you know go on with your life, get busy, maybe run or like meditate. But by you know, just by being ourselves and by breaking the taboo surrounding mental health, we can increase the awareness and and you know, you do it so beautifully yourself on your own path, and you know, just by being a therapist and the podcast host and a speaker. It's bringing that awareness and encouraging people to understand more about it and to really help them know that it's important and in fact it's encouraged that they reach out, they seek help when they need it, instead of you know just brushing it on under the carpet all the time. Because then it gets accumulated and it keeps bothering you until you know you do one thing, which is to turn around and and face it. So that's such an important such an important learning of asking for help, seeking help when you need it. So I'm sure all the listeners are enjoying this conversation, but like for someone listening to this right now, what are your say small steps that you recommend, like a grounding tool or like a mindset shift that you would suggest? Something that we can all stop doing and start doing. What would those quick actionable tools or ideas would be?

Myths About Trauma And Mental Health

SPEAKER_00 48:20

When a lot of times your brain is lying to you, right? The worst case scenario and just come to the present moment and use grounding technique. So for example, like describing something on the wall, or tasting something, or describing the sounds that are around you. So when you are describing, let's say you're describing something on the wall, your brain is like, oh my god, we have a meeting next week, and and and we're gonna get fired, blah blah blah, and that's all what the brain wants to do is freak out about that meeting that probably will get cancelled, or that you're not gonna get fired, but the brain goes through the worst possible case scenario. So if you force yourself, you take a deep breath that brings oxygen to your entire system, and you start describing the picture on the wall, the more detail you put into describing the picture, the more present you're going to be. So, literally, a grounding technique takes you out of your head and into the present moment. So, once you ground yourself, if you want to do something about that upcoming meeting, is that you can do more research, you can get better prepared, that's what you can do right now about that meeting in the future, so you are better prepared for that. Other than that, even if you don't sleep, the meeting is not gonna happen anytime sooner. So, the more present you are, the better prepared you are going to be for that meeting. So, one of the antidotes for anxiety is to do something right about it. So, you literally, when you are doing something, let's say you are doing research, you're doing um, you're asking questions, you are reaching out to a colleague, whatever it is that you are doing, you are literally out of your head and into the present moment. Because when I'm doing research, I'm typing in the computer, I am doing an action, so I'm not in my head. So, for anybody who is listening and they are experiencing anxiety, depression, uh, trauma, ask for help, reach out to a therapist, and remember that when you are talking to a therapist for a consultation call, you are interviewing the therapist as much as the therapist is interviewing you to know if it's a two-way street, not a one-way traffic, yeah? Yes, to know if it's a good feat. So ask for help, take a lot of deep breath, bring oxyf we breathe so shallow, right? Like so when we take a deep breath, we are bringing oxygen to our entire system, which is relaxing in itself, and then take action, whatever that might be. For example, let's say that you feel depressed because somebody who you love very much had passed away, and you are feeling guilty because you didn't tell that person I love you enough. So, what I encourage you to do in addition to look for help is to learn from that experience and tell the people who are in your life right now how much you love them. So when you know better, you do better. So you cannot go back in time and tell that person who passed away, I love you. But you can learn from that and start applying that to the people who are in your life right now. So when these people pass away, you have no regrets.

Practical Grounding And Action Steps

SPEAKER_02 52:39

So you know better and then you do better, and there's like it can be really overwhelming and taxing for you to have those thoughts of okay, spiraling and thinking I should have done better, I missed the time. But there's only so much that you can do right now. But the most important thing is that you take lesson and then you move on, but you implement that lesson every single day in your life. So thanks so much, Zulma, for sharing such profound words of wisdom with us. Thank you for your honesty, your bravery, your softness, and also your quiet strength. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Yeah, you remind me every time that healing may not be linear, but it's very much possible. And that resil resilience is not a personality trait, it's uh it's a practice. It's something that you keep introducing and repeating and you keep doing, and the volume inside each of us doesn't appear when life is easy, but it appears when life demands the most romance. And your story is such a powerful reminder that we can re-invent rebuild our lives, we can start again at 41, at 42, at 43, and literally and we can walk through the fire and cover simply because we weren't just on bond, but because we were transformed in the entire process to everyone listening today, removed you, inspired you, or reminded you of your own strength which edited remind me of mine. Please take a moment to read the interview and share the sound of the podcast. It helps the show grow, it helps the conversations like this reach someone who may desperately need them today. And Zulman, tell us about where can people find you and how can people work with you or just follow your own journey.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Yes, so um I have my own podcast. It's called Keeping It Real with Zulma, the Swearing Therapist. Uh I kept it clean for the show, but I do swear a lot. My Instagram is at the swearing therapist, and my website is dragonfly therapyservices.net. I am licensed in Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Texas, and Utah. So if you are a resident of any of those estates, I can work with you. But even if you're not in any of those estates, reach out to me. And if uh I can help in any way, I will uh either help you directly or I will provide you with resources.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Thank you so much. And yeah, I will add all your links and socials in the show notes down below. So in case anyone wants to find you, they can click open and just straight up reach out to you. So thank you so much for being here today. And for everyone listening, thank you so much for choosing your own healing and owning up and showing for your story. I'm your host, the body, and I'll see you in the next episode. Until then, please be gentle, please be brave and keep coming home to yourself. Thank you so much.