.png)
Just In Time to Save a Life
Just In Time is a deeply personal and powerful podcast hosted by Jessica G, founder of the nonprofit Just in Time to Save a Life. In each episode, Jessica and her guests explore mental health, suicide prevention, and the healing power of neuroplasticity through lived experience and compassionate conversation. This show is rooted in Jessica’s own journey through profound grief and survival, offering insight, encouragement, and real tools for those struggling in silence. Just In Time is more than a podcast — it’s a mission to make mental health education and transformative healing accessible to everyone. Join us as we share stories that speak life into the darkest places and offer hope to those who need it most.
Just In Time to Save a Life
Ep. 2 - Ask the Question, Save a Life
When it comes to suicide prevention, many of us freeze - unsure what to say, afraid of making things worse, or paralyzed by the weight of the topic. In this powerful conversation, Jessica Greenwalt sits down with Jacqueline Sharp, Area Director for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, to dismantle myths and provide clear, evidence-based guidance that could save lives.
"Are you thinking about killing yourself?" It's a question many of us fear asking, but Sharp explains why it's one of the most important questions we can voice. Contrary to popular belief, asking directly about suicide doesn't plant the idea; instead, it creates space for honesty and can provide immense relief to someone suffering in silence.
The conversation unpacks two fundamental principles of suicide prevention: time and distance. Creating time allows someone's brain to move beyond crisis, while establishing distance between a person and potential lethal means dramatically reduces risk. These insights have fueled innovations like the Community Armory Project, which provides locations where people can voluntarily surrender firearms temporarily during a mental health crisis, a program that now has 12 locations across Arkansas.
Sharp also addresses the power of language, explaining why phrases like "committed suicide" perpetuate stigma by implying criminality or moral failure. "Individuals who die by suicide, they're not committing a crime," she explains. "You wouldn't say someone 'committed cancer.'" This subtle but crucial language shift acknowledges suicide as a health issue rather than a moral failing.
For those supporting suicide loss survivors, the discussion offers compassionate guidance: say the deceased person's name, understand that grief isn't linear, and recognize that checking in consistently matters. The episode concludes with information about the "Do You Have Eight Minutes?" campaign, which provides a simple code phrase people can use when they need support but struggle to directly express their pain.
Whether you're concerned about a loved one, supporting someone grieving a suicide loss, or simply want to be better prepared to help, this episode provides practical, life-saving information delivered with compassion and clarity. Remember: in a crisis, call or text 988 for immediate support.
If you are in an crisis or feel unsafe, call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help.
Follow and stay connected:
Website: justintimepodcast.com
YouTube: youtube.com/@justintime.podcast
Instagram: @justintimetosavealife
Facebook: Just In Time To Save a Life
Never miss an update—follow, subscribe, and join the conversation!
Hi, I'm Jessica G and this is the Just In Time podcast. If you're struggling today, I want you to know this podcast is here for you, but it's not a substitute for professional help. If you're in a crisis or feeling unsafe, please call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help. On this show, I'll be sharing personal experiences, mindset shifts, talking with key experts and sharing real tools that help me go from barely surviving to thriving. This is not about quick fixes or one-size-fits-all advice. It's raw, it's honest, it's what worked for me and what I believe can help others too. Let's walk together from darkness to hope. Hello, hello everybody. I'm Jessica G and this is the Just In Time podcast. We are so excited about today's episode. I know last episode we talked about bringing Jacqueline Sharp on and she is here with us today. Thank you so much for taking the time and being here with us today. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:She is the area director for AFSP and, for those of you that don't know, afsp is the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, so I guess we'll go into a little bit about how we met. Yeah, okay, okay. So I opened up the nonprofit. I obviously had a mission and whatnot, but I was very, very, very scared about putting myself out there. I didn't know next steps and I know I wanted to make a difference and an impact but I just wasn't sure how and I didn't really have the confidence to talk about. You know, suicide, education, prevention and my story, yeah, and we met a coffee shop. Story, yeah, and we met a coffee shop and she looked at me and she knew right where I was at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and I was super pregnant, that's right. And so I got this. I got a. I think you called, maybe, and said, hey, I'm interested in learning more information about suicide and sharing my story and talking about it safely. And so I said, sure, sis, let's meet for coffee. And I just remember walking in and the one thing I remember from that meeting was you were willing and eager to learn, and that's huge. When you come across people that want to learn the appropriate ways to talk about suicide, that is makes my job so easy, because I can teach that, we can teach that. That's why we're here. So it was great. And then it started a journey of us just, you know, really kind of working with each other and it kind of spread to our walks, our events, your events and advocacy side of stuff. So it just grew from there, which is why I you know AFSP and the grassroots movement of it.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I believe 1986 is when they were established, yeah, and they're based a lot on research and development and they have presentations. So we'll get into that in a minute. But I became a presenter and Jacqueline actually trained me for Talk Save Lives, and so I think I did a presentation in a minute. But I became a presenter and Jacqueline actually trained me for Talk Save Lives, and so I think I did a presentation on a couple of schools and I was so nervous you guys, just like I was nervous to start this podcast. It took me months to get here.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that Jacqueline really helped me with was she looked at me and she was like, okay, she's like, I see where you're at, let's get you educated properly, because even at that time I'm just going to give one example had been five or six years, right, and I just was so afraid to perpetuate a problem or I was afraid to put myself out there or say the wrong thing, because you just never know right and a lot of people will go through loss and they want to do something and they want to make a difference, and I believe you guys have a rule around that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a hard and fast rule, but suicide loss grief is not linear and it's really important that we take care of loss survivors. Unfortunately, what we know from research is that lost survivors themselves are at a greater risk for suicide, and so that's part of our mission is to take care of those that are affected by suicide, and we normally say you know, we want you to wait about a year to two years after your loss, um, to really engage with us, right? But we also we we kind of weigh that according to the person. Some loss survivors throw themselves into the work because that's what's going to help them heal, right, that's going to be part of their healing journey but then, within the same token, you know you want them to be educated so they're not causing harm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we're going to. We're going to dive in that today to like the do's and don'ts with Miss Jacqueline Sharp and you know, you, you and AFSP gave me the confidence to actually start moving that needle forward, to to talk about it. Yeah, you, you gave me the confidence, and AFSP and to do that, and even after going through the training with you, I was still nervous to about it. You gave me the confidence in AFSP to do that and even after going through the training with you, I was still nervous to do it right. It's such a heavy topic.
Speaker 2:It's such a heavy topic, there's still so much stigma associated with it, and when I train volunteers and law survivors, I always talk to them about listen. We ask how far out you are from your loss, not to you know, bring that back up or cause any pain, but really is to or devalue what they want to do or any of that.
Speaker 1:It's just you're looking out for safety, correct, yeah, and people, some people understand some people don't.
Speaker 2:And people will ask questions and they're not ever questions that they're meaning to be inappropriate or mean. It's just a lack of education and you have to be prepared when you go out into the community that you may get some, some potentially offensive questions. But that's why we do what we do is because we need to meet that with education. Yes, we need to meet that with education. We need to meet that with common sense. It has to be something that people can understand, digest and really be able to take out work.
Speaker 1:And what is your thoughts with the health care system? Do you feel like our health care system is educated enough?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean not just my thoughts. We look at some of the data that we pulled here in the state of Arkansas. You know, arkansas Children's Hospital always does an annual review of the community. What are the community needs? But also internally, what are the needs of their doctors and their doctors and their medical staff? And the number one thing that came up and this was a couple of years ago is that they did not feel prepared for all of the behavioral health and the mental health challenges that they're seeing in the ER. They've seen such an increase and so they don't feel equipped. I mean, my father is a retired pediatrician and he even talks about there's just not a ton of training that happened in medical schools I have clients that are, you know, therapists, psychologists, doctors, and they still use some of the.
Speaker 1:You know, do not use words Correct, the no, no, correct.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, and you know, when I met you I didn't even know this, right, and I think this is why education is so important, and I will stop somebody in their tracks. I'll be like, hey, we don't use the word commit because of X and z. Right, and we'll get into that in a second, because I mean it was, I think I met you about five, five, six years after the loss, yeah, um, and, and I think I was still using the word commit, yeah, and I think maybe at that coffee shop you may have told me that and I was like, oh my gosh, I, I don't know. And then it really hit me in the training program I remember you told us a story and you said there was a nine-year-old girl that had died by suicide and the mother, I believe, had seen it reported on the news as this nine-year-old committed suicide and the mother was like my daughter did not commit a crime and so that's always stuck in my head, yeah, yeah, I think you shared that with us on our training program.
Speaker 2:That's one of our lost survivors, lost her daughter and you know, you think about our language is ever evolving. One time I did a presentation at a pretty major corporation and I got asked why is that important to change our language from committed to die by suicide? And I just said, you know, again, our language is ever evolving and if there are ways that we can change our language to make it safer, to be more inclusive of our lost survivors, because individuals that die by suicide, they're not committing a crime, they're not committing a sin, right, like you wouldn't say he committed brain cancer, right, correct? Yeah, committing a crime. They're not committing a sin, right, like you wouldn't say he committed brain cancer, right, correct? Yeah, that's the other. That's what. That's the narrative we're trying to change. Yes, if somebody dies from a heart attack, we're not, we're not.
Speaker 2:They committed a heart attack, exactly right right, and that's ultimately where we're coming from is we want to take science, yeah, and say, look, this is what we know from science. This right, it is happening in the brain and people. When they are in suicidal crisis, they're not able to access the logistical side of their brain Correct and they're experiencing the most pain they've ever experienced in their whole life.
Speaker 1:And this reminds me of last episode we said we talked about when someone's in a crisis, this is not the time to tell somebody, hey, let's reprogram your brain. They cannot access that part of their brain. When we were talking about neuroplasticity, harnessing neuroplasticity to fight suicide, which is changing the way you think. That is not a crisis approach Like that comes. That's like true prevention before somebody is in a crisis. Right, and I want to touch one thing I am in the presentation. It talks about how brains of suicide.
Speaker 2:Individuals die by suicide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they differ from their brains differ from those that don't right, yes, so yeah, I think that, um, you know dr joe dispensa. He talks about harnessing neuroplasticity to fight suicide and, um, our brains really do matter when it comes to this. Yes, and I just I love the AFSP.
Speaker 2:It's backed up with research, oh yeah, and that you know I'll expand on that. So what we know of that is that it differs specifically in the impulsivity section of the brain which, if you think about a suicidal crisis, it is that makes sense. It's. It's oftentimes an impulsive thought that happens or an impulsive act that happens, and so what we know from research is that that differs and so that has also driven our education, that we do in our training, that we do listen. Somebody is can't access like that thinking through process of like right, oh, but I have a family, oh, but I have they can't access that right. So what we? They do not have control over that part of their brain, correct? Yeah, what we have to do is meet that with empathy, compassion, a active listening ear. We want to create time, because what we do know about suicidal crisis, when it's happening in the brain, it's often temporary. Now that time frame could be five minutes, it could be an hour, it could be a day, but we want to create time for the brain to kick out of that and I think this is so important. So right now, I just want to clarify we are talking about what to do when we're in a crisis.
Speaker 2:Behaviors have changed. That's a big one that people often say. We often hear there were no warning signs and oftentimes warning signs are subtle. So you shared that. You use the word committed before meeting me. I use that word before being here with AFSP being a member, being educated. It was not something that I knew. Yeah, we need to shift, so that's a thing everyone has to kind of learn and there's definitely grace in learning that. But the same concept of you know, when we're addressing somebody who is in in active suicidal crisis, we want to start asking them questions like I've noticed that you are sleeping too much. You want to call out behaviors if they're doing, come out in a place of love.
Speaker 1:Correct, not judgment. Yes, right, because it's already such a hard topic and I think the reason why I lost justin and he didn't like reach out to um, somebody that could really truly help him. I mean, he did reach out to a couple of friends but a lot of people say, oh, I had no idea this and that. But when you really dive into it, there were the signs and there were a few people, but those people, you know, did not know what to do because they were not educated and you know, suicide is the second leading cause of death in college students.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, but anyways, I don't want to get off track. No, you're good, but yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's I mean. So anything we, what we educate people on, is, if you notice a change, maybe it's the way they're talking, maybe it's the behavior that they're displaying or the mood that they're displaying Anything that seems abnormal or unusual.
Speaker 2:Ask somebody hey, I noticed this was going on, Just want to check in with you, Are you okay? Yes, and then that is going to allow them the opportunity to kind of open up and start talking. If you're sensing that they are saying things like I feel like a burden to my fam, I am in an overwhelming amount of pain. One thing that we do educate people on is you want to ask about suicide directly? Oftentimes, when I talk to people, they'll say well, I asked are you thinking of harming yourself? And while that is important, that can mean a myriad of things too.
Speaker 1:To ask this question, but it's very empowering. It's very scary, it's very awkward, so it can be very awkward. You know what you? I had to practice it. I had to. I literally had to practice it and it takes courage to actually ask this question. But I think the biggest reason why people don't ask it people are like what is, what is the question? The question is um, are you thinking of killing yourself?
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, or are you thinking about suicide? Are you thinking about suicide direct?
Speaker 1:we want to, yes so you can say um, are you thinking about killing yourself? If are you suicidal right now, yes, what's another way to ask?
Speaker 2:um, do you have a plan to die by suicide? Okay, so, and the plan part's important, which, if you say, are you thinking about killing yourself?
Speaker 1:And they say yes, then the next ask do you have a plan Right, so you can kind of gauge where?
Speaker 2:they're at Correct and that leads to the second. So the first big piece that we talk about in suicide prevention, there's two things that are vitally important that we found through research Time. We want to create time for the brain to kick out of that suicidal crisis right, so we can provide resources and we can get somebody to talk themselves down right, and that's why we love 988. That's why we love 988 yeah, it's such a vital resource.
Speaker 1:It really it truly is, and I mean, I think there's a lot of people that don't don't know about it, but for sure, um. So just to clarify yeah, it is okay to ask somebody are you struggling with suicide? Yeah, are you having thoughts of suicide? Do you want to kill yourself? Do you have a plan in action? Yep, and so I want everybody to remember this, because you may be the only person that asks that question yeah, you may be the only person that ever asks.
Speaker 2:Correct and expanding on that. Oftentimes we'll all hear this is a major myth in suicide prevention is that well, if I ask somebody about suicide, then I'm going to give them the idea Right, which is not true. It's not true.
Speaker 1:Thank you for following it up, because that's what I really wanted to say. I was like that's where I was going. Yes, it is not true. Can you say that again for us? Yeah, I really want to drive that in the brain.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, so there's a big myth that if we ask somebody directly, are you thinking about suicide or are you thinking about killing yourself, then you're going to give that person the idea and it's not true. That's not true.
Speaker 1:So don't be afraid to ask, don't be afraid to ask.
Speaker 2:Ask the question and kind of following up on that and expanding more on that.
Speaker 1:And don't feel bad about asking either. Correct, because you could be saving a life. I think for me I was like, oh my gosh, they're going to be offended, they're going to think that I think that they're crazy, right? Because I think the reason why Justin didn't reach out was because I was labeled as the crazy one in my family. Okay, I struggled with suicide from the age of 13. I was labeled crazy and he's my younger brother, he's 10 years younger than me, and he saw that and he saw how, you know, people around me treated me because I said I I am thinking about killing myself. You know the age of 13, I had my first attempt. I was being bullied. My parents are going through a divorce, like there was abuse going on.
Speaker 1:There's like multiple reasons why somebody you know would want to die by suicide and whatnot, and it's because they are in so much pain and like to. You know, the brain obviously isn't fully developed and all the things. But I had struggled with those all the my whole life really and I kept fighting and fighting, and fighting and fighting, because I knew this is not the way, suicide is not the way, right, and I, just, I, just, I held on until I found you know, I went through the health care system I but I just feel like there isn't enough education out there, and that's why I wanted to be part of an organization that truly helps people, because I think what you do, jacqueline, is just amazing and I think, like you don't even probably know the amount of lives that you've changed. Yeah, sorry, Nope.
Speaker 2:So I will say on that same vein you know and you can, you can talk about this as somebody with lived experience. Then I think it's important to hear from people with lived experience, which is why I talk about my lived experience and you share, about yours. When we ask somebody, are you thinking about suicide, somebody who is thinking about suicide is given the opportunity to say yes, right, and that is so powerful, to say out loud, yeah, that I'm not okay, yeah, and it also makes you feel seen, yeah, which is huge. I mean, do you agree with Absolutely? And if you had somebody at the age of 13 saying Jessica, yeah, are you thinking about?
Speaker 1:suicide Right.
Speaker 2:Nobody asked me that question, not in school, not any of my counselors, and I also think that also speaks to a much bigger thing that we could get into. But you know, oftentimes when I talk to people they're like just cannot believe that children would even remotely have the thought around suicide, Right, Didn't you guys?
Speaker 1:just come up with a new program for kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is it called so well, we've launched an initiative here in Arkansas called Project Renew, so it's a high school initiative. Yeah, it's a student-led suicide prevention initiative in high schools.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then there's also another one for kindergartners or for school.
Speaker 2:So we have it's Real Middle School, okay, and then it's Real Teens and Mental Health.
Speaker 1:I thought there was like a talking bear. Oh.
Speaker 2:Gizmo.
Speaker 1:Gizmo. Is it a bear? Yes, no, he's a dog, yes. So I haven't like updated myself with where you guys were at with Gizmo.
Speaker 2:But Gizmo is a third party program that we use. The idea behind it is it's a super watered down safety plan. Okay For, and it's third and fourth graders, third and fourth graders.
Speaker 1:That's what I thought. Okay, yeah, so the idea is Cause Sheila, I think, is a presenter for that, she was talking about how much she loved doing that. Cause she was there as support to help me do my first presentation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Gizmo is great. The idea behind it is we want to start talking to kiddos and I have a six year old and a two year old and I have already started talking to my kids about you know the worry monster. And let's talk about, when you're feeling overwhelmed or when you're feeling like you know your stomach hurts, things we can do to help that feeling go away, to make it feel better. What are some things? And that's the same idea as gizmo. Yeah, okay, when I'm feeling upset, can I go talk to a trusted adult? Right, who's that trusted adult? I love that and I'm feeling overwhelmed. Can I do jumping jacks? Will that help me?
Speaker 1:Or can I do some physical activity socials available? That would be super helpful for somebody who's coming from a very physically and verbally emotionally abusive family. Yeah, and where in my family, um, you know, anytime something went wrong, it's like, well, just let's just go, you know, kill ourselves, and it's like that, um, that's not what you want to be teaching your child, and so that was a learned behavior within my family, right, right, and you know, it's, it's sad, but it's programming and it's, yeah for sure, and I think there's a lot of children out there that are abused. I mean, I used to volunteer for the children's shelter, yeah, and my heart just goes out to. My heart really just goes out to kids. So I love that you guys have that program. That's beautiful, for sure. Well, so I love that you guys have that program.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful For sure. Well, and you know that's part of that postvention piece. You know, what we know is ACEs also contribute to, so that's adolescent childhood experiences and those can or adverse childhood experiences, excuse me, and those when those happen to kiddos, that can actually put them at a higher risk for suicide, absolutely. So that's super important for us in that prevention side of things. You know, you think of it as I think it's Desmond Tutu who famously talked about with suicide. Think of it as a river. We're all in a river and what we want is to stop folks from getting down to the suicidal crisis Right Way in advance. True prevention. Stop trying to pull them out of the river. Let's stop them from even getting in the river from yes In the first place. So that's that.
Speaker 1:That's huge, that's sure. I mean that's huge, yeah, that's that's huge.
Speaker 2:And back on, you know we're talking about asking somebody directly are you thinking about suicide? And they say yes. The next question has to be do you have a plan? And here's why that's important. So the second thing is the first one was time. The second thing is distance. Okay, so we want to create distance from the plan that has been on somebody's mind and that suicidal individual.
Speaker 1:So removing firearms medication yes.
Speaker 2:What else? Yeah, so we want to keep the environment safe, whatever that looks like for that particular person. Right, we want to keep that environment safe, right, and here's what we've learned from research is that individuals who have been thinking about suicide and have a plan, if you remove that from their environment, the likelihood of them selecting another means, another lethal means, a way to die by suicide is very low. That is huge. That is a huge factor in suicide prevention. So, time and distance let's create time for the brain to get out of the suicidal crisis, yes, and let's create distance, yes, so that we can continue to let the brain get out of that crisis, right, and that they no longer have access to lethal means I love how simple this is.
Speaker 1:Right, it's such a heavy topic, right, but anybody can understand what you're saying. That ain't now, yeah, correct, and anybody can choose to remove that guy, right or right or right. Move those pills, right or right, you know. Remove the knife or whatever it is that is harmful to that person, you know, yeah things like um, bridge barriers have been incredibly impactful.
Speaker 2:Uh, one community put up a bridge barrier. They saw they were seeing an increase in suicide rates and, like on a specific bridge, yes, on a bridge and within the community as a whole, right, right, and they put up bridge barrier and they saw a 50% reduction in suicides in that community. Oh, wow, from one bridge barrier. Wow, so that's amazing. We know that those things can make a huge impact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oftentimes, when we hear from, yeah, it was a mistake, it was a mistake, it was a regret, yep, yeah, and so that's, we're trying to create that, and I believe that too, and for, for my personal experience, you know, um, keep me on track here, because I want to talk. Yeah, I want, I want to. I want to, like, talk about one thing and then I want to talk about, um, I don't know what was the community project that you were working on to remove firearms from the house. Yeah, the armory projectory project.
Speaker 2:Is that still a thing? It's in full motion. So what Jessica's talking about is last year we saw a report actually it's been two years now, which is crazy we saw a CBS report on a guy in Louisiana, who's a veteran, who owns a gun shop in Louisiana. Yes, and he had a friend that showed up one day and just was kind of hanging around the shop and at the end of the visit said do you mind holding my firearms for me? And Caleb said sure, and then the guy disappeared and didn't contact for like four months. Caleb said man, what's going on? Right? And he says, struggling, I was struggling and I had nowhere else to go and you're the only person I knew that would take this, take all my firearms and I could keep myself safe. And do we have a place like that now in Arkansas? We?
Speaker 1:have 12 locations. Oh my goodness, I literally have goosebumps, because when I first met you, this didn't exist. It was something that you guys were really working on.
Speaker 2:I got despondent, I know yes, we cry, so um, but we saw the report. Yeah, louisiana, and so louisiana started as a grassroots movement in tandem with their va, and so, um, they made this network of what is called a community armory.
Speaker 1:So these look yes, community armory, that's what I was. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's locations where people can voluntarily surrender firearms, yes, and this can be for really a whole myriad of things. I'm nervous for myself. I'm actively suicidal. I want to keep my environment safe. My husband is actually suicidal. I want to keep our environment safe. I'm a grandparent, my grandkids are coming over and I want to keep our environment safe for them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it has far instead of giving it to a friend or something else like that, because we just never know. I mean correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so we started working on it. And what's funny?
Speaker 1:is because it helps with the stigma too. It's like you may not want to give it to your friend Right helps with the stigma too. It's like you may not want to give it to your friend right, like yeah, you may not want your friend to know, because it is it's so hard to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's so hard. And specifically, what we see more often is you know, men are at a higher risk for suicide, yep, and firearms are more often used, yeah, and so this allows that opportunity where you're not having to call up a buddy and say I am not good, can you take all of these. Instead, you're going to someone who is very familiar with fire. It's another person in that community. The way we worked on it, it's kind of funny. We started working on it independently, had no idea that while we were working on it, little Rock VA was working on it, because it goes through the VA Right and so. And then we had a moment where we reached out and said, hey, can we work with you guys? And they said this is the craziest timing because we're already there in Arkansas, we're expanding to Arkansas, but now we need legislation to help us expand. And that's where AFSP came in. On our advocacy effort yes, I think that was the year before I went, yeah, so we advocated with all of our legislators and got legislation actually presented.
Speaker 1:And guys. That just goes to show how advocacy does matter.
Speaker 2:It does, and I'll be really transparent. When I got the call from my board chair who's just incredible human being she said Do you think we could do this in Arkansas? I kind of laughed and said no, and I was negative. I was, I didn't think it going to be possible. And then we started making phone calls and one after another was no, that makes sense. Damn, we love it. That's a really smart idea.
Speaker 1:It's a great idea. So and I think a lot of people are weird oh, the government's going to take my guns away, or this is going to happen, or that's going to happen. Right, I'm a macho man, you know, I'm in really able. It's crazy, it's that you don't have to. You can just drop your weapons off. Drop your guns off, you don't have to say the reasons why. Yeah, um, you can just drop them off, hold them and well, right, you can say whatever you need to say, correct, and I think the other, or whatever, you want to say.
Speaker 2:The other important part of this that I think folks need to hear is that you know, obviously, all lethal means are something we want to focus on. How can we can, can we create distance? We know that that saves lives, yes, so why? Firearms is something that we feel like is something we need to focus on, specifically here in Arkansas. So 65 percent of people that die by suicide here in the state is by fair and the national average is 50 percent. So we're higher than the national average, and it just was something that, when I came in, we had to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have to talk about it, yeah, it was a big part of that I want to tap into. Let's see. Oh yeah, it was a personal experience. You said, when somebody was the Golden Gate Bridge, the first moment they stepped on a ledge, yeah, their first. Uh, can you repeat that?
Speaker 2:yeah, their first thought is regret. What they said to us is immediately they didn't want to do it. Are you talking about the survivors?
Speaker 1:survivors that jumped. Yes, ma'am, okay, yeah. So there's two things I want to talk about. I want to talk about personal experience and then I want to talk about how we're not supposed to talk about the way in which someone died also. So I want to tap into that.
Speaker 1:So, um, but just to um reference it, after I had found my brother who died by suicide, which was like very traumatic, and I dealt with ptsd for a very, very, very long time, and that's again why it took me such a long time to get to this point, um, to to be in a place where I'm educated and I have the confidence to talk about it, right, um, because we don't want to make something worse and, unknowingly, we may have the best intentions in the world, but we may not know. But, um, I heard justin's voice afterwards. I, I ran down the stairs and I ran out the front yard. I looked at the sky and I screamed. I was like, why, god, why? And I hear justin's voice, big sis, big sis, I didn't mean to. And I look over at my brother and I said, john, he didn't mean to. As an accident, yes, he died by suicide. But let just, I think just the same thing what you're saying. That moment that happened, you know, survivors were like you know, and so it was just. I do believe that it's a regret, but I do believe that people are in so much pain.
Speaker 1:And then again, you know, I spoke to the college students. I said you know drugs and alcohol, you know Adderall drinking like I know that's like Adderall and drinking is like a big thing in college students. You know they think they need to take Adderall to test, test, and Justin had alcohol and Adderall in his system at the time where he made that decision. Yeah, and that alters our brain, right. And so I spoke at his funeral. You know, sigma Pi came to his funeral and their fraternity was suicide prevention, yeah, yeah. And I said you guys, you know we, you got to look at the drugs and the alcohol that are getting mixed together. And he also had NyQuil in his system at the same time, yeah, so, yes, I do believe that people you know people that are already gone or people that have survived a suicide, do regret it, yeah absolutely and I think to your point.
Speaker 2:It is important for people to hear you know we we do talk about kind of the do's and don'ts is we don't want to talk about lethal means. Yes, and the reasoning behind this is because it can be triggering for law survivors. Yes, we don't want to re-traumatize people in graphic. You know details and what we've found with suicide prevention is that part of the story is actually not important, it's not critical.
Speaker 1:This is one of the biggest reasons why I'm so glad that I found you, because I thought the opposite when I first met you, but I never really spoke about it right, like because to be vulgar or aggressive or to explain what you saw or do this or do that like I thought that that would really drive the nail into people and I think a lot of people think that Right, you know Right and people want to know how Right, correct and people also want to know how it's like.
Speaker 2:Fascination as human beings it is. Yes, we're fascinated by that.
Speaker 1:It doesn't the perpetuate correct problem? Yeah, and that's what we wanted to say today. Yeah, it does it, and but I thought like, oh my gosh, if I'm so intense with it, I'm so graphic with it, that's really gonna, like you know, drive it in to, to, to, just like you know, share my emotional experience and how painful that was for me, and so other people can feel it.
Speaker 1:But that's not necessary, right? It's not, it's absolutely not necessary. I'm so glad I found you guys before I decided to, yeah, share any of my personal story yeah, and you know that's oftentimes when I engage with the community.
Speaker 2:People just don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean a great and I would say, like if you know someone that died by suicide, don't try not to ask how correct. Yeah, I would definitely like let's not do that, like definitely not do that. I mean I'm gonna say, when I do hear about it, like even my brain goes, I wonder how. But like, yeah, not I think everybody's brains does that maybe, but let's, let's not do that, guys for sure.
Speaker 2:And and, um, I have a great, so do not ask how. I have a great example of this. I, my husband and I went out and did the bourbon tour. What do you do for a living? And she said I'm a fundraiser, which is wild for me to find fundraisers out in the wild. But she was like, what organization do you work with? And I said I work for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. And her fiance whips his head around and immediately starts sharing all of this lived experience. Oh no, and it went from cool party vibes to like all the way so, and I think it's one of those things when it's an honest thing of like, oh, you're somebody who's safe to talk to about suicide, which is great. We want those things, right, right, those things. But also, you know, we want to limit sharing graphic details. It's not necessary. We also want to.
Speaker 1:You know, as we talked about previously, we want to avoid because you can trigger other people correct, and I think that was the one thing that I loved about you so much, because you were like jessica. I remember you're like what are you doing to protect yourself? Yeah, like, I want to make sure that you also and I think you know um. I advocated last year um in Washington and it was such an amazing experience. I think we got 32 new sponsors in the senate, something like that. Don't quote me on my numbers, but I remember there was a point in which, like, I choose to share my story when I feel like it really means the most or it's going to create impact, right, but you taught me how to limit it and you also told me it's okay if you do not want to. Yep, oh yeah, and I think that for people who suicide survivors you have a heart for them too and and like us that are left behind, like sometimes all we think about is like justin or my dad or that person, and we fail to think about ourselves and what we need and and whatnot. And so I remember I was having a little, I was having a tough day in Washington, because I limit how much I'm sharing, how much I'm talking about it too, because, like, yeah, you know how you think, it's how you feel, and if you're thinking a certain way and no matter like where I'm at in my healing journey and even though I don't struggle with suicide ideation anymore, like you always want to keep an eye on your mental health and you you want to like just make sure that you're in a safe space and if it's too much, you you can tell yourself it's okay to like back off a little bit. Right, and I remember that day you actually called me. I think Karen picked up on it. Karen called me and you're like hey, how you doing? I'm, like, I'm good, and I had just shared my story like four times and they were like blank stare. And there was like oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then there was also um, somebody from a different state, from AFSP. That um was kind of uh, basically like what did you just call it? Just pouring all their life experiences and not really like following the rules, graphic details, and I was like I don't know if you think that you don't follow the rules, because, like, because I'm also and I feel like you probably get that a lot too, because I'm educated as well so we're like this is a safe place to do that, but it was a lot for me and it actually did trigger me. And or, like this is a safe place to do that, but it was a lot for me and it actually did trigger me and I had to go and like lay down and like take a moment and like breathe.
Speaker 1:But I love that. You know every step of the way I'm tearing up, every step of the way you guys have supported that journey to help us be in a place to help others. Yeah, we also have to like take that time. Yeah, so it's like all the good that we want to do in the world, it's also important to do that good for ourselves.
Speaker 2:Oh, 15, that you taught me that it's like to take the time, and I think you guys have a program for suicide survivors as well, we, we have, we have several programs, so a couple of them that I think are important for people to hear, and I also want to expand on this in saying like it's really important to take care of lost survivors. Yeah, and the things that I hear that get sent to lost survivors horrify me, truly horrify me.
Speaker 1:There's a stigma. For that, too, there's a stigma. Oh, you're the girl that lost her brother. You're the girl that lost her dad. It was hard to smile, right, right, correct. Why are you smiling? You just lost your dad and brother, like there was so much, correct.
Speaker 2:It is. The sum of the stuff that gets said is just. It truly breaks my heart. Yeah, because our lost survivors have experienced some of the darkest days that you can as a human being and they need support and they need community and they need somebody to show up. And the other thing they need is they need you to say their name. Say the lost person's name. Wait, say your brother's name. Oh really, when somebody is talking to you, yeah, oftentimes what we hear from lost survivors is they won't say their name. Yeah, oftentimes what we hear from lost survivors is they won't say their name.
Speaker 1:They won't talk about justin they. Just how ironic is it that we made the non-profit just in time?
Speaker 2:they just say your brother, yeah, they won't talk about it, and I think it's a genuine people are truly. They don't want to upset you as a lot of survivor.
Speaker 1:That's all again like they. People don't know how to talk, but they don't want to talk about it, so they don't talk about it, and that's why we're here, that's why the podcast exists, so they don't talk about it.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, it's like you need to hear me say justin's name. You know that's we need to use their names well, and do you like what they do with the sim? I love it. Actually, I thought before we started I was like did you change the logo? Because I love it. It's great. It's literally great.
Speaker 1:I did, oh, I love it, my podcast manager. It's great. I love it so much, it's so good. Yeah, you know, like that it's really going to resonate and yeah, it's a really great, really great podcast. Then I will also do the oh for sure.
Speaker 2:But I will also say you know law survivors, couple things. If you have a law survivor in your community or in your friend group, talk to them about their person, check in on them, how you doing. Yes, because suicide loss is different than other grief and other loss grief, yeah, and it's really important that you understand it's not linear. So oftentimes I have lost survivors who you know. One month we're going to set the world on fire, we're going to advocate, we're going to get in all the prevention, education, we're gonna do all the, and then boom, it hits them. And then the next one crickets, totally silent. Yeah, and it's because we're back in being, or we're back in being. I don't, I'm not processing, and that's okay. All those things are okay. See, that's what I love about you guys. You know it's important to know those things, though it is Interacting with lost survivors, right? Yeah, it really is. And it's also important to say hey, jessica, if you don't want to share your story at this time, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I need you to listen to that voice inside you that's saying you told me that at the Capitol and I was like, no, I want to do it.
Speaker 2:But I'll also say so. The Saturday before Thanksgiving is the International Survivors of Suicide Law Day, and we have events take place all over the nation. But the idea behind it oftentimes what I hear from law survivors and really specifically it's all law survivors, but specifically I hear this from parents that have lost children yeah, is I just want to talk to another parent. I just want to talk to someone else who's experienced this right.
Speaker 1:So you don't feel so alone, and it's true it's true, it's. It's weird how people have come to me through the salon and sat in my chair and yes, um, have you know, read the story and they felt like it was a safe place to talk to. It's like it's just. It's just it's kind of amazing, um, yeah, and I so how many lives it's already touching and how communities coming together. One of the things, though, that really blew my mind was, for every suicide, 25 others attempt Correct. Can you explain that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's like how did they figure that out? Over a million families are affected by suicide attempts. Yeah, so that's the other thing. When we're talking about you know, I'm scared to ask somebody if they're thinking about suicide directly. Oftentimes we'll tell people and you'll laugh at this. And I've even said this in like pretty major meetings. But we used to have this theory about sex education and if we don't talk about sex, no one will have it. Same concept with suicide. You can't sit here and say, well, if we don't talk about it, then no one will do, no one will die by suicide, nobody will kill themselves, nobody's going to think about suicide, and the reality is it's already here. People are thinking about suicide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is something that has to be addressed, it's one of the largest aiding causes of death in the United States. Yeah, and, and we're not talking about it like we're right to, we're not asking the right questions, correct?
Speaker 2:So that's, that's why we're you know, getting back on Survivor Day and giving them opportunities to connect with each other, because you need that support. You know I talk about you know, one month you may be great, next month you're not so great. And we launched a campaign last year in response, actually, to a loss that happened here in Arkansas. That was pretty significant and it was someone from the mental health community that died by suicide and it just rocked us, honestly, because what it said to us was that, out of anyone, that person should have known they could have reached out. And there was an article that came out in January of last year talking about the power of eight minutes and the importance of you know typically it takes people's brains about eight minutes to debrief and the importance of having friends that you can reach out to and set up. Do you have eight minutes? Yeah, and so we launched a do you have eight minutes campaign. And I don't know if you're familiar with simon cynic yeah, but okay, cool, I love it.
Speaker 2:Um, he put out on tiktok um a video and he was being interviewed. Um, he had had a friend that texted him and or they were talking one day and she said I've, I've really been struggling like I've not been okay. And he said I kind of got mad at her what do you mean you're not okay, why don't you tell me? And she said I've really been struggling Like I've not been okay. And he said I kind of got mad at her what do you mean you're not okay? Why didn't you tell me? And she said I did. And he went back through his text messages and said where. And she said when I asked do you want to come over for dinner? And he goes how am I supposed to know that that's like you're not okay. That could be another Tuesday, right.
Speaker 1:And so now the code for that is do you have eight minutes? Do you have eight minutes?
Speaker 2:I love that, because then it's not you having to be verbal and say I'm not okay, yeah, it's just. Do you have eight minutes that you pick up the phone and call me and talk to me?
Speaker 1:I love how creative that you guys got with that too, because's like, okay, we know there's a segment, we know people are afraid to reach out, so you created all these little things in order for people to kind of, you know, reach out. We just need to get them out into the world, yeah, so, yeah, um, I have, I'm just over the moon about having you on this podcast. I am so excited. I feel like we could talk for hours and hours and hours, and, um, I want to invite you back on the show because I feel like we have more to talk about and you bring so much value to the world and so much education and, um, you know, my goal is that the people that are listening that this, this, will help, or, if you know somebody that's struggling, send them this video. You know, that's why we're doing this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I know that we wanted to talk a little bit about right before we get off. Um, I don't know if you wanted to share a little bit about the postpartum journey. I know that that was a really important cause when I first met you. Yeah, um, and a program that you you wanted AFSP to possibly create. Yeah, and so where are you at with that and and listeners don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:So go ahead okay. So, um, part of the reason why I? Um got really interested in afsp and why I'm here is I have lived experience. So what that means is I have struggled with suicidal thinking, um, and specifically around postpartum. So, uh, my first child. He's six years old now. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I was so excited to have a baby and be a mom and all the things, and I just found myself in a very, very dark place. And you know, I think we can expand on that on another project.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, but I am. We'll keep the listeners listening. Yes, I tease you, but yeah, you know one of the things that there's a lot of women out there that have postpartum and probably need to hear what you have to say, correct?
Speaker 2:And I think what you touched on briefly and what I'll expand on is that, as we share our story safely, yes, what I'm finding is that women are saying, oh my gosh, me too, but I didn't think I'd talk about it Right and there's this level of extra stigma on postpartum that has been a lot Like you're supposed to be a mom.
Speaker 1:You're supposed to have a baby.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to be like taking care of complicated. And again going back to the callback of when you ask somebody if they're thinking about suicide, for them to say, be able to say yes and feel seen, that's great. So for me to hear from another person and that's what kind of pulled me out of it is I heard from another person, wow, the same thoughts that I was feeling and the same things I was, and you're like, okay, I'm not alone in this. And I thought, oh, I'm not, weird, it's not me, it's not just me, other people deal with this. And that's the whole point of that sharing that lived experience. Thankfully, we want to kind of normalize the conversation around it. Absolutely, people can go, oh, oh, okay, that's not just me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and these conversations may be hard to have, but people need to hear them. I think we're going to have a lot of people listening to this and a lot of people are going to get help from it. Speaking of help, can you tell our listeners where they can go to find, I guess, afspcom? Yep, there's 988, all of those things that's going to be in our intro and outro, and then specifically for suicide survivors. So everything is on the AFSPcom website. Yeah, it's AFSPorg Dot org.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, you're good, you're good and it's got. I mean, I will say our website is a plethora of information, so if you're a law survivor, there's tons of free resources on that website. A lot of times, our lost survivors will say something that was super helpful to them is we have two minute clips of all of our researchers and what they have specifically studied. Yes, and that is fascinating to me. I enjoy watching those, but it's also been helpful for our lost survivors that are really battling with that statement of why, yeah, so going through those and kind of seeing those, that's all on the website. Volunteering with AFSP is on the website.
Speaker 2:If you're not in Arkansas specifically, we have chapters all over the nation so you can look to see which chapter and we have events coming up this fall called the Out of the Darkness Walk, so you can engage that. Yeah, just in time, did the walk? Yeah, it was amazing. So, yeah, afsp, engage that. Yeah, just in time, did the walk. Yeah, it was amazing. So, um, yeah, apsborg, but then 988, 988 is really an important tool for people to know about and it's private, right, so right, and it's important too, and this is something I shared with jessica when we first met um was that 988 is not just for the person that's in crisis. It's for someone who might be taking care of somebody in crisis, or if you're worried about something.
Speaker 1:Right, you can call 988. Yes, I had a friend in Orange County. She calls me and she says, hey, my husband is suicidal, I don't know what to do. I was like, oh my gosh, jacqueline, what do I do? And she's like get 988 on the phone. I was like, so we three-way 988. And I said, hey, this is my friend, her husband has lethal means. Like, can you please help me? I have so much anxiety right now. I want to help my friend but like I'm. I'm like kind of frozen right now. I need your help. And they walked us. They stayed on the phone probably for an hour and 45 minutes, walked us through everything Actually, like found her a number to call her husband, went down to the clinic, got the help that he needed. He's here with us today. That was gonna make me cry. Yeah, he's here with us today.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but those are the things that are for people.
Speaker 1:Yeah here, yeah and the thing is like a suicide. It affects every single person. It's not just, you know, poor people, rich people, middle class good looking people not good looking people, like whatever it's it's, it's, it's every single person. Like you know, people could look at somebody and go. They look like they have it all together, they're doing totally fine, like gosh, I wish I could be them, but you have no idea what they're struggling with. You have no idea. So, like you know, it's. It's something that can affect everyone at some point in their life.
Speaker 1:So well, I think this wraps up our episode. Thank you for having me on. Oh, my gosh, I can't wait to have you on again. If you're struggling, remember how you think is how you feel. If you're feeling still heavy, start by shifting the thought. You're not stuck. Your brain can change, so can your story. I'm Jessica G. This is the Just In Time podcast and I'll see you next time. Until then, keep going, never give up and remember the world is better with you in it, whether you believe it or not. To help reach others, please share this with your friends, family, and don't forget to like, subscribe and donate.