Ep. 18 - Soul Accounting: Why Your Bank Account Isn't Your Worth with Patty Nuovo

Financial stress is a silent killer, but it isn't usually a math problem—it’s a neurological trigger. Most people treat their bank accounts as a barometer for their self-worth, leading to a paralyzing cycle of avoidance, shame, and physical illness. If you've ever felt nauseous opening a bill or felt like a failure because of a number, you need to understand that your brain is simply running an old script. Financial expert and author Patty Nuovo joins the show to break down how we can stop outsourcing our sense of safety to our balance sheets.

We sit down to investigate the deep-seated emotional origins of our money habits, from childhood "sponging" to the provider trap that many men find themselves in. We get into the tactical side of neuroplasticity, discussing how to replace "I'm bad with money" with a growth-oriented narrative. Patty explains the "bag lady complex," the reality of financial trauma, and why high-pressure earners are often the most at risk for mental health crises. The secret sauce in this conversation is the shift from survival to abundance—learning to see money as a neutral tool rather than a moral judgment.

The unglamorous truth is that no amount of money will make you feel secure if your internal wiring is set to "survival mode." You cannot think your way out of a feeling; you have to address the emotional charge at the source. This episode provides a practical framework for looking at your accounts without the "boogeyman effect" and offers a roadmap for anyone drowning in debt or anxiety to finally give themselves the grace needed to move forward.

If you care about financial literacy, emotional intelligence, and breaking generational cycles of stress, you’ll get a lot from this. Please Subscribe and Share this episode with someone who needs to hear that their worth is not tied to their wealth.

If you are in a crisis or feel unsafe, call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help.

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Transcript

Money And Mental Health Unpacked

SPEAKER_00 0:44

All right, hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode of Justin Time to Save a Life. Today, we are going to talk about money and mental health. Money is something we all deal with, but it's not something we all talk about honestly. And for a lot of people, money isn't just numbers. It's stress, pressure, identity, and sometimes even shame. I think what's really important and what we're going to dive in today is how deeply money is tied to our mental health, our emotions. When you're trying to build something from nothing, whether you feel the pressure to provide or whether you're just trying to keep your head above water, money can quietly become one of the biggest emotional weights that we carry. And today I'm bringing in someone who doesn't just understand money, she understands the emotional relationship we have with it. She's worked in the financial industry for over 20 years. She's the

Meet Patty Nuovo

SPEAKER_00 1:35

author of Soul Accounting, The Power of Money and Emotions and Solving the Riddle of the Money Mind. Patty Nuovo, we are so excited to have you here. Thank you for joining. Oh, thanks so much, Jessica. Appreciate it. Awesome, awesome. Um, so we're gonna get into a little bit. I want to ask a little bit about your books. Can you tell us about the two books that you've written?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, what made me write them is because over the past 20 some odd years that I've been in this industry, I just noticed patterns. And, you know, at first I was like, oh, it's probably just the individual person. And then eventually I started seeing differences between men hand working with money and women working with money and how that all comes together. So I just, it was just the research that I started doing and just had fun with actually doing that.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Awesome. And I believe you've like um have talked to colleges, have shared your book.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah. I've I've lectured um in in Canada, I've lectured across the country, um, do seminars, uh, taught at different uh universities, colleges, um, taught a series at NWAC here in the world. Yes, that's what I thought. Yes. Uh and so just bringing financial literacy to individuals that may not have access to this type of information.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yes, that's awesome. Uh well, I know you've helped me understand it in multiple different ways and how you can make money work for you and going through different phases of my life and explaining those uh situations and how much to, you know, put back here and what to do here and making sure that I always feel safe around it. So I'm really excited for our listeners to be able to kind of join in on some of that insight that you that you share. Um, you talk a lot about the emotional side of money. What do most

Money As A Neurological Trigger

SPEAKER_00 3:20

people not realize about how their relationship with money is affecting their mental health?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

You know, what's interesting is um many people view money um as a math problem when really it's an emotional and actually a neurological trigger. Um so people don't realize that money uh stress often manifests in physical symptoms like um headaches, nausea, um, even chronic stress, digestive issues. So we open oftentimes we can outsource our sense of safety to our bank account. Like if your balance is low, uh you might, you know, that the part of the brain triggers and says that fight and flight response goes off, uh, and making it impossible to think creatively or rationally about solutions. So, but if I could, if I could just start and explain um what I mean when I talk about money as emotion. Um, so we go back to the definition of money, like what is it? Yeah. And so basically it's just a barter. It's a means of exchange for goods and services. That's all it's a tool. And yet, so many people have attached emotions to that very word. Uh so they'll have words like um power, stress, fear, anger, hatred, uh I mean, all kinds of things. Yeah. It's just a means of exchange. So where did these things come from?

Where Money Beliefs Come From

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Right. So in my research, what I found is really it's three sources. Our early childhood. When we're children, this is like under the age of 10, um, basically our our alpha brain, we're a sponge, and we just absorb things around us. So how your mom and dad or caretakers or brothers and sisters or grandparents, words and thoughts and ideas that they had about money. And so we absorb that like a sponge. Right. And so uh, you know, you might think that uh then you have like sayings that are out there, you know, money doesn't grow on trees. You heard a parent say that. Um, or um, you know, different messages that you get. Yes. Then you have many of us have a religious background. And even in the Bible, there are over 131 references to money. So that will influence what you think. You know, one of the famous sayings is um the love of money, uh, you know, the um the root of all evil. Yes, that whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yes, money is the root of all evil, I think it is.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

But it's the love of money is the root of all evil. That's right. Forget that one little part. Yeah. And so, like again, you get messages, messages. And then we have our media, uh, books, movies, TV out there saying, you know, you have to have it, or if you don't have it, what's wrong with you, or to have fun or to have love in your life. Yeah. So again, messages. So this is kind of like a pot of soup that we have. And so you may have negative or positive messages from childhood, from a back religious background, from a uh from society. And now you graduate, you get a job, and it's all about money. Your services bring you money, and then you have retirement plans, 401ks, IRAs, raw, you have all these things, and you're supposed to know about it. And most people, well, let me ask you, how how much talk was there about money in your household growing up?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Oh my gosh. Um, I, you know, I just remember having a piggy bank, honestly, and kind of saving money. Um, but there wasn't really truly like educational, I think, conversations.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

And the majority, not everyone, but the majority of individuals that I've met over the years, same thing. It just really wasn't talked about. Um, like one parent may have spent a lot and the other one uh saved a lot. And yeah, so which one do you follow? Do you follow the saver or the spender? You know, yeah. It's again mixed messages. Yeah. And now you're this conglomerate of all these things. So how are you gonna do this thing call money? Right. Which is again just a tool, just a barter, a means of exchange. And yet it's like the number one reason for breakup in marriages. Yep. Um, it creates uh physical health issues because of it.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Um, I know that you had uh numbers, you know, college students, early 20s, young family providers, high-pressure earners, um, and entrepreneurs. Um, and I know that, yeah, I had a couple statistics here too. Um, I think we were gonna kind of keep it a little bit lighter, but you know, uh financial stress is, you know, I think it was about 22%. Don't quote me on this. 22%. Actually, now that now that we're getting into it, I'll just go ahead and pull it

Financial Stress And Suicide Risk

SPEAKER_00 8:10

up. Um because I'm pregnant, you guys, we've I've been trying to keep um the podcast a little bit lighter. Um I'm nine months pregnant, 35 weeks. And um, but you know, when we need to talk about it, it's just when we need to talk about. But yes, uh, multiple financial stressors um can increase suicide risk up to 20 times. And about 16% of suicides are linked to financial problems. Serious debt increases suicide attempt likely uh likelihood by three times. And then there's a super high risk demographic in men. Um and then suicide is the second leading cause of death for ages 10 to 34 and ages 45 to 64. And these are all tied to financial instability. So it money does matter with your emotions. And I love where you're going with this because I'm thinking, like, you know, it's true. It's like, what is our relationship with money? Are we in survival? Are we in abundance? Like, what meanings did we put to money? As you sit here and like talk about this, I'm like, hmm, what meanings have I put to money when the money doesn't grow on trees? And in terms of like bringing a child into this world, I'm like, okay, I want to be careful and how I talk to her about that instead of saying, like, we I don't ever want to tell her we can't afford that. I want to be like, how can we afford that? You know, and really change the verbiage. And that's kind of like what I'm picking up from you, which I love.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

So like one of the things that you mentioned um to me previous to this podcast, it had to do with like different patterns, like in high pressure situations.

Provider Pressure And Self Worth

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And for many, net worth has become synonymous with self-worth. Yeah. Where did that come from? Yeah. Um, but again, that provider trap that um many men are involved with is that they often feel if they're not winning financially, um, that they're failing as human beings.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Well, there's a lot of push out there on social media right now for you know men to provide. And and but sometimes I think it can be like over the top, you know? Sure. Um, what is that new quote that everyone's saying? They're like, uh, don't pick the girl that wants the Hermes bag. Like, pick the girl that you can afford. Don't put too much stress on yourself. There's like a lot of kind of jokes around that. But I mean, it's true. I think there's a lot of pressure for men to provide. Um, and also women too. Women are providing a lot more for themselves nowadays than they ever have. Um, but you're right. I mean, social media, I think sometimes can really add a lot more stress than needed to because you see all these successful people online and everyone's doing this and doing that, and you're just thinking, gosh, I'm so far behind. And so I think sometimes we as humans uh compare ourselves to what we see online, and sometimes it's not even really real. You know? Yeah. Like that guy driving the Bugatti, he rented it. He he doesn't actually own it, you know? So there's just there's a lot of there's a lot of fake things out there. So we have to be careful, like how what we consume and our thoughts around money with that.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

And the next thing had to do with um the shame stress

Shame, Avoidance, And Money Secrets

SPEAKER_01 11:17

connection. Yes. Okay. And so shame is I it's basically a silent killer of financial progress, okay, in my opinion. Yeah. Um, so think of it like a cycle. Uh, shame it leads to avoidance, meaning not opening your bills or not looking at your accounts. Oh my gosh. I used to do that, Patty. Yeah, which leads to anxiety, which eventually leads to hopelessness. And sometimes for no reason. Mm-hmm. Um, because see, money stress isn't just about um your lack of money. Um, it's really about the secrets that we keep. Um, when we feel that we can't tell the truth about our finances, we sever our connection to others and not living an authentic life. Yeah. Uh so I mean, I had uh someone that I knew that was very ashamed that they filed bankruptcy years and years ago. And so to me, it was just a fact. It had no bearing on the human being or who they are. It was just a situation that there was uh in the lot the ability to do that and start all over and then go from there. And so uh that that definitely is it. Um so I think you have to lower that cortisol level in our brain, you know, with the stress having to do with money. Um, and it really here's now I think the solutions is start to change your concepts with money. First, you have to have an awareness that maybe you're thinking the wrong way about this tool, this means of exchange.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Well, it's so true. Like I want to point out one thing that you said. Um, you mentioned people not looking at their bank accounts, right? Okay, so I remember, um, and this is just my personal experience, um, and I think we've talked about this before, is I always like even though like I, you know, still financially secure now, I had come from such a survival mindset, and I would, I just kept saving, saving, saving. And I would never want to look at my bank account. It was it would bring me so much anxiety. And even after I had, you know, a significant amount of money that should make me feel financially secure and stable, I still had that mindset of like survival. And I remember when I made that shift, but I also remember like coming to you and thinking, okay, I want to create a plan. I want to be able to retire. I want to be able to, you know, do all these things. And I always had this fear. I really want to share this with you guys, like um, that I would be like homeless and not have a home. Like even to this day, sometimes not really like so much now, but even just a couple of years ago, like four, maybe, maybe three or four years ago, I still had this like um silly fear, if you will, about not having a place to live one day, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

But it's not silly and it's real, and you're not alone. Yeah. And it's about 53% of females in this country have that same, they call it the bag lady complex. Yeah. That you will become destitute and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And I think that comes from growing up in survival mode. And then, um, but really, I think identifying your connection to it. So I just wanted to point that out because I feel like there's probably a lot of us that are listening that maybe also feel that way too, just like you said, and it's not silly, you're not alone, other people feel that way. But to be able to like, you know, share that, I think will help maybe somebody else also feel not alone. Because you're right, people don't talk about money. Like that was like a thing. So because see, feelings will always win over logic.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah. So that you can't uh think away a feeling. Um, you've got to feel the feeling and understand where it came from and then make a change. Right. But just thinking like I'm gonna think differently, I'm probably gonna not have any money when I, you know, die. Yeah. That that kind of negates everything. So it's really about um a mental shift. First, I think you gotta like forgive yourself. If in the past maybe you weren't the most responsible, but again, I say, how could you be responsible if it was never discussed, never taught, yeah, never no ment, you know, find a mentor to help you today, but I mean never had that back then. So it's to forgive yourself you know, about the debt or the mess, or again, that's just data. It's not a moral judgment on who you are as a human being.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Right, right.

The Mental First Step

SPEAKER_00 15:45

What's for someone who feels completely overwhelmed financially, like they're drowning, what's the first step they should take mentally before even looking at numbers?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

I think awareness is the first step. Like something's not working, or like I'm afraid, or like whatever it is, if it's something negative about this thing called money, yeah, you have to have an awareness. Um maybe since this really shouldn't have anything attached to it, what's going on? Why do I feel this way? Right. Um, and then it's about practicing acceptance. Like I may not have had that ability in the past, or just acknowledge, um, you know, I should have known better.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Just throw that stuff out. You know, so like finding so what I'm hearing you're saying is finding the source of why I feel that way. Yep. And that's the awareness you're talking about. And then the next step would be forgiving yourself, giving yourself grace, and then moving forward next step. Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Because once you once the emotional charge is removed, the numbers become much less scary to look at. Right. Um, and now you're open to making changes to how you think and feel about this thing called money.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah.

Simple Habits For Money Clarity

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Um, what are some small habits or shifts people can make daily that improve both their financial situation and mental clarity?

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Um, I think that uh clarity comes from a constant low-stake um interaction with your finances. Maybe like a five-minute money check. Uh look at your accounts uh maybe daily, not to obsess about it, but to normalize looking at it if you were like afraid to look at it. Yeah. Um this removes that boogeyman effect of, you know, the bill or the checking account statement that you get. Um and then the pause rule I think is really helpful. Um for any non-essential purchases. Um, like I always have people make a distinction between um a need. Yes. You know, like there's a difference between a want and a need. Yeah. Um and so any non-essential purchases. For me, I need my hair accentual fatty. We can't take those away. It's a need, right? And and to wait like 24 hours, like just before making a big decision. Yes, before making um that, I really think that that helps um neurologically, that dopamine in the brain, yeah, that instant, you know, um I feel good. And to really um let your your brain or the logic take over rather than the emotion. Got it. Um, because again, that child, that emotional child will always win. Yeah. Always until you take charge and then become the adult and then rational reason what it is that you're doing. Because that's really what how a tool should be used.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Um, how does someone start rewiring unhealthy beliefs that they had about money for years?

Rewriting Scripts Through Neuroplasticity

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Okay. Um, basically, you have to like replace the script. Okay. Um, you know, if you've always been thinking about it one way. Neuroplasticity. Yep. Yeah. Um, if the script is um, I'm bad with money, uh, rewrite it to I'm learning to manage my resources more effectively or better. Perfect. You know, it's just about making those changes. Like one of the simple things. Yes. That if if if if I said to you, I'm so tired. I'm tired.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

I'm tired, I'm exhausted. Yeah, you're gonna continue to be tired. Because you guys, this is amazing because how you think is how you feel. And that's a lot of what we talk about on this podcast. And so what Patty is saying is like, we're rewiring our brains. This is neuroplasticity um at work at its best when it comes to money. Um, would you read that quote again? I think that would be super helpful for everyone. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Um, basically to replace the script you know that we have. Um, that if your script is like I'm bad with money, you rewire it to something like um, I'm learning to manage my resources better. Yeah. Um, anything. You just you change it to something that sounds better, that makes you that you can actually connect and feel that emotion with, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Because if you can feel it too, yeah, you can feel the shift, then it makes it more real instead of like toxic positivity and just being like, I'm bad with money, I'm good with money, I'm bad with money, I'm good with money. It's like that can be a huge jump for people, but I like where you kind of met it in the middle and said, Okay, I'm learning to manage my money better. And then you can grow off of that.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. The other thing also, hang around people that don't have an issue with money, that that you may even appear to be successful or happier or not have those issues, because you'll begin to pick up the energy, the way that they think, the ideas of how they're handling it or managing it. Yeah. Um, and even uh, you know, with a mentor, someone that you might look up to to be able to say, you know, how do I make this change? I'm kind of afraid that everything's gonna become zero. And what do I do? And yeah, and then with education, with learning, and basically with literacy, which we should have had growing up, right, then you're actually that will just help you rewire everything. If you thought the world was flat, and then someday somebody showed you and proved to you empirically that actually the world is round, then you're able to make that change.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah. Another thing that comes to mind too is oh, it's 11-11, make a wish. Okay.

Gratitude, Abundance, And Creativity

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Um one of the other things that comes to mind, um, and I used to tell the girls this at the salon, I would say, you know, I I there was uh one class that I did where I was talking to them about the relationship with money and like checking people out at the front desk, right? When you're like paying for a luxury service, it might be $500, it might be $1,500. And a lot of people have anxiety about a number, you know, um, or even accepting $20 at the register. You know, there was always this like training at the front desk. Um, and so I had to go back and think about the the relationship with money. And so I asked him, I said, when you get a bill, you see the bill, what's the first thing like you think of? And it's like, oh my gosh, I have this bill. And I was like, let's. Start shifting that, just that one little thing kind of like helped start the you know process of thinking about money differently. And I said, let's change it to I'm so grateful that I have the money to pay this bill, versus, oh my God, I have this bill, it's a thousand dollars. Like, and like just that shift alone can start to change and give you like a different emotional charge and make you start feeling safer around money as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So I kind of wanted to share that too, because it just popped into my mind.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And I know this might be a really big jump. It may not you could do at first, but making money or having money, it's fun. Yes. I mean, it really can be fun. It all depends how you look at it. Yeah. And so um, now you may not be there at this point. So you do these little small changes, but it's like baby steps. Yeah. But eventually you'll get there and just really begin to appreciate it. And it's also really fun when you don't have money to think more creatively. How can you do the same thing without it? Yeah. I had a friend. Um, she wanted to travel the world. She says, but I don't have any money. So right away I said, Stop saying that I don't have any money part. Yeah. And so we were in this class, and there was another person that was in the room with us, and he said, Could I talk to you after class? This individual worked with a travel agency for exotic places. They were looking for someone who would travel to the world to find different locations that they could then do packages for people. She found a way to travel through her work. Right. That's amazing. She was paid to do the very thing that she wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

But if she had the money, she probably would have already been doing that. But because she didn't, she found this creative way to get exactly what she wanted. And if people could realize if they you may have something that you want, write it down, tell people about it. Yes. You're creating this beautiful circle of giving and receiving. Yeah. And that's, I really believe there's so much abundance in this world. Yeah. But to tap into it, you've got to get rid of the stuff in the way. Yeah. And those are negative thoughts, feelings about money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I love that. I love where you went with that. Um, I I lost my train of thought, but I was gonna say something based on that. Well, Jessica, you've always been a big manifester. Yes, that's what it was. It was manifestation. You just spread thy mind. Thank you. You're telepathic. Um, yeah, it's manifesting those things. And when you carry that energy too, like the world around you also shifts, you know, when you start believing better. And for me, it's like it wasn't just always about like, let's make a bunch of money. It was like money, you said earlier, money is a tool. Okay. You said money is a tool. And for me, money equals freedom. Discipline equals freedom, money equals freedom. When you're disciplined and you're doing all the income-producing activities, money starts flowing. When you have a mindset of abundance, money can start flowing. But you're right, money is a tool. It doesn't have to be evil. We don't have to attach, you know, or put meanings to money that we don't need to based on our beliefs. Uh, the child is what you're saying. And I think when that shift started happening for me, I was like, wow, now I can create more impact, you know, through the nonprofit or um through paying employees more or through, you know, tipping, being more generous, or like giving more to the world. And then that like also comes back to you as well. When you're not in survival, you can be in that state of flow, you know? That's right. So that's like really beautiful. I love that you shared that about your friend.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah. It's about joy and happiness and love. Yeah. And if you can find the things, even petting a cat, yeah, if that makes you brings you joy, that begins this whole cycle of abundance created in your life. Yeah. And money is just one little piece, it's a tool in this whole um big circle that we have.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

And so I think some people can just be like so afraid. Like the people that I hear are like that talk badly about money. A, maybe it's because they don't have it, or they just didn't figure out how to get it or what it was. And so, you know, there's like also like you have to like step over that line and you do have to work hard and you do have to be disciplined and like move forward. And some people don't want to, I think, cross that line. Um, well, they may not know, or they may not know there's a line to cross. Yeah. They just, it's like it's a fact. And it's just like scary for them.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah. Yeah. But you've been an incredible role model in what you do. And then that emanates from everyone that you're in touch with. I mean just it flows from there. But yeah, I know that uh it might sound out there to say, if you're just happy, things will start coming to you. But I really believe that and I see it. Yeah. Um, I had I used to have teach this class and I had people write down like 10 things that they would really desire, what they would love to have. And I had them put it in an envelope. And I said, in the interim, talk to people about it. Mention what those six things were. Just yeah, go do that. Did you know that by the end of the semester, that more than 50% of everything they wrote down, they manifested, they actually got what it was they were looking for. Not by having money. Right. So that's more creative. That's right. Yeah. But see, you have to be open to being creative, but you can't if you're in pain or if you're in that negative space. When you turn positive and you're in joy and happiness and love, then you have the ability. And love can mean loving oneself, loving nature, loving your dog, your cat. I mean, it's it's about being in that space. That energy opens everything up for you.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah. Um, your financial situation is something you're navigating, not something that defines your worst. And I think that we tackled that today. People aren't struggling because they're bad with money, they're struggling because no one ever taught them how to feel safe, confident, and in control of it. Patty, thank you for being here. Um, do you want to tell our listeners the names and titles of your books and where they can find it? Oh, wow. Thank you. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Uh it's soul accounting. Yep. Um, and the other is Solving the Riddle of the Money Mind. Yeah. Um, and you can find them on Amazon. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

And it's by Patty Nuovo. And thank you so much for sharing all your um insight. I really enjoyed this. I hope that

Books, Resources, And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 28:21

you guys did too. And if you guys have a story to tell, um, if you feel like you can create impact um in the mental health sphere, please reach out to justin time to save a life.org. Until then, we'll see you next time.