Ep. 21 - Isolation to Inclusion: A Father's Autism Journey with Justin Trombley

Caregiver exhaustion is a silent crisis pushing families of neurodivergent children into complete isolation. As developmental diagnoses rise rapidly across the country, communities often remain unprepared to offer practical support, leaving parents to navigate systemic gaps alone. Justin Trombley joins the show to share his lived experience raising an autistic son and his work advocating for genuine community inclusion.

We sit down to discuss the critical timeline of early intervention therapies and the noticeable developmental differences that appear in the preschool years. The conversation covers finding community resources like Perspectability, establishing firm digital guardrails against online predators, and the severe mental health risks associated with masking. Justin shares his core philosophy that leading with curiosity rather than distance is the only real bridge to true belonging.

The daily reality involves navigating public spaces that lack sensory accommodations and managing the emotional toll when children are excluded from routine social events. Dealing with the grief of altered expectations requires constant communication between spouses to process low moments without guilt. You will walk away with a clear understanding of how to implement necessary safety filters on digital devices and actionable ways to make community gatherings accessible for everyone.

Please subscribe to the channel and share this episode with your network to help bring these vital conversations to light. What is the most practical way your community has shown up for a family navigating a new diagnosis?

If you are in a crisis or feel unsafe, call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help.

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Transcript

Show Mission And Safety Disclaimer

0:02

Hi, I'm Jessica J, and this is the Justin Common Podcast. If you're struggling today, I won't even know that this publicist is here for you, but it's not a substitute for professional health. If you're in a crisis or film and safe, please call the text in the media or tell 911 for media support. There are people out there who will listen and can help. On this show, I'll be sharing personal experiences and money to study, talking with key experts, and sharing real tools that can help me go from building to surviving to thriving. This is none about quick fixes or one's mind's all of mine. It's real, it's ominous. It's what worked for me and what I believe can help others too. Let's work together from darkness to light.

Why Some Families Seem To Vanish

0:45

Welcome to the Just in Time to Save a Life podcast. I'm Lynn Hurst, guest hosting today for the wonderful Jessica G. While she's out on maternity leave, we're thinking about you, Jessica. And at the time of this episode, uh, we have not heard back that the stork has dropped a wonderful bundle off. So again, we're thinking of you, Jessica. I want to start with a question. Think about a family you used to see at a school pickup, at church, at the neighborhood. And then at some point you may have noticed that they just weren't here anymore. What if their disappearing wasn't by choice? What if the people around them simply didn't know what they needed and never really thought to ask? One in 31 children in America is now diagnosed with autism. As many as one in six has a developmental disability, and research shows that their caregivers experience stress at more than three times the rate of other parents. These families aren't failing. Many of them are just simply exhausted and invisible. My guest today is Justin Trombley, a parent of a neurodivergent child and an advocate who has lived this every day. We're going to talk about what isolation really looks like for these families, why it happens, and what we can do about it. Justin, thank you so much for being here. It is truly my pleasure to be here today. Um Lynn, thank you for having me and um the opportunity to really share um my story, my family's story, and specifically uh the story of my um my son. So thanks, thanks for having me. Thank you. I wonder if we could tell the the listeners a little bit about your background, your story.

A Sand Moment That Changed Everything

2:35

Sure. And uh we'll go from there. Yeah. So um I um am married to my uh beautiful wife, Adria. Uh we have been married for um 28 years. Um and so um we uh it was about we were about six years into our marriage when uh we got the announcement that uh we were we were expecting that we were going to have uh a child. And that was so we were just ecstatic um about that happening. Um fast forward nine months later, and um our our our guy uh um entered the world. So Jackson um was born uh in 2006, and um, you know, uh he was a uh he was premature. Uh we're not 100% sure uh how premature he you know he was. Um the doctors told us uh originally that he was about a month uh premature. Uh but um you know that all went fine uh and everything seemed normal, um, typical, if you will, uh, for really those infant years. Um when he started in entering into his toddler years, well, we noticed something was different. And um the story goes that we had uh we were involved with a uh group called Parents as Teachers. I don't know if you've heard of it. Um most school districts across the United States have some sort of component of this program, but it's that ability to um invite you know uh educators into your home to work with your toddler-age children. And um we were working with Miss Terry, um, who is still a friend of ours to this day. And we had been on a vacation. Uh Jackson at the time was about two years old, and um we went down to Mexico to Cozumel, and he was sitting on a beach there as we were enjoying the day. Uh, and we know it was the first time he'd ever been to the beach and the first time he'd ever really interacted with sand. And what he did, which we all thought was just like, oh, this is so cute. And we were snapping pictures like left and right, but he would take the sand, he would was sitting there and he would scoop it up, he would pull his hand up and allow the sand to fall between his fingers. And he and he did that, Lynn, for I would say probably over an hour. And, you know, for us, we were like, huh, you know, that's interesting, but oh, it's so cute, you know. And when we got home, we were showing Miss Terry pictures of our trip and we explained this moment. And that was the moment that she said, okay, I think we might need to get uh some uh a doctor, uh, some just some evaluations done. Uh we think maybe there is something here with neurodiversity. Now, at the time, you know, we we did not call it autism, we did not call it any of those things because it was very premature, but uh we knew there was some sort of delay that was happening. Uh fast forward, uh, we moved to Arkansas, which is where we live now. And um, when Jax was four years old, he was officially diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. Um, he has he is high functioning. Um, so he does communicate, has you know great communication skills, uh, struggle sometimes with just phrasing and things like that. Um but uh Jax is just an awesome, awesome person. And uh I'll I'll share more about his story as we you know continue the conversation. But uh he is now uh just turned 20 years old and thriving. Um and so yeah, it has been a journey uh for our family, for him, but also for my wife, Adria and I. So going back to that day that he was looking at the sand, because I do that too. Um what was it about that that she said? So, you know, you always they always base, you know, everything that it is as they work with families and and they're working with um in situations as watching child development. Um, you know, they're always looking to see, okay, what what is typical? What are some things that we might want to look more into? You know, there was a couple of indicators there. The fact that, you know, he was really only just, you know, two to three years old at the time, and he sat there for over an hour. Like that, that's not typical, right? The fact that he was, you know, doing the scoop and then pulling his hand the way that he did that, that also was something that was a little bit out of the ordinary for a child his age. So those were all things that were kind of red lights. Now, I will say that at this point, um, my I have not shared this, my wife is uh has had a very awesome career in education. And um, she she was starting to pick up on things as well. Um, Miss Terry just kind of solidified it, right? Like this is the moment. Um, and I will add one thing here. I know we're here to talk about isolation and other things, but I am so incredibly grateful for Terry's involvement because that really set the wheels into motion. And um, I'm not for sure if you're familiar with uh Dr. Temple Grandin, but she is um one of the people that we have admired through this whole entire journey. And to hear her story, and just there's even a movie about her, uh Claire Danes did several years ago that uh on HBO that was just wonderful. Um, but one of the primary things that Dr. Grandin says is um early intervention is absolutely key. And so, in the fact of Jax, we're figuring this out at two and three, and then even four, that gave us a lot of opportunity to really put Jax into some immersive, immersive um therapies, physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, all of those things uh in order to help him um, you know, learn about his uniqueness and then figure out his path, right? Uh so very grateful for that. Yeah, yeah. So that in the journey, so 20 years now. Yeah.

Isolation After The Diagnosis Hits

9:02

Um, going back to that time, was there ever a time that you felt like you were isolated? For sure. Yeah. You know, one of the things about a diagnosis in this case is it's interesting. And, you know, this is not necessarily just an autism thing. I think it really applies to a lot of different areas, right? Yeah. We you the moment that you find out you're going to have a child, that that's that, you know, there's all of these expectations or thoughts of, oh, life is going to be so cool and we're going to do this, and he's going to go to the same college that we did, and he's going to do this, and he's going to do this. So when that official diagnosis came, it's just like a huge ton of bricks that just hit you, right? And it's at that moment you realize that life is not going to be the way that you thought it was going to be. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but in that moment, it really hits you heavy, right? Um, so to say it to speak specifically, Elen, about um isolation, I would have to go back to, you know, because we started noticing those things early, you know, in the preschool years, you know, it's kind of hard sometimes for a child who is neurodiverse, in in our case, right? I don't want to speak, you know, to to all situations, um, that, you know, you start to, it's it's very noticeable, right? So preschool, you know, it's just that kind of settling into the fact that he has a uniqueness, he, he, he has autism. Um, it was probably elementary. And I think it's when the development of his peers started taking off. And, you know, he's a little bit um, his development is is taking a path that's a little bit is different than his peers. I'll say it that way. Um, that's when it was the hardest. And I think so. For us, and I and my wife would agree, uh, we're probably looking at late preschool all the way into probably up to second and third grade. Those were the hardest years, I think. Um, and again, because there was that noticeable gap, and I hate using the word gap, but it that really is what it was, is that how Jackson, you know, his behavior and his processing and just how he interacted with the world was very different than his peers. So during that time, were there other families? I would imagine it's few and far between because I know even in I'm from Springfield, and the experience I had was there weren't that many people going through the same thing, but it was just beginning back then. Yes. Um, I am exceptionally proud of just where we are today. Are we are we 100% there? No, we're not. But are there more resources today than there were back when we were uh on this journey? Yes. And I'm not saying that to say feel sorry for us. That's not that's not the point. The point is, I'm just very proud of the community. Uh, but going back to your to your question and and what you're asking is um so were there any other families that we could gravitate to or to partner with? Um at first, no. And then here's where we were at, um, Lynn. We had just moved. Uh we lived in southwest Missouri um pretty much our entire lives. My wife has always lived in southwest Missouri. Um, my family lived in Texas for a short period of time, uh, but then moved back to southwest Missouri. And then uh my

Building A Real-World Support Network

12:55

job brought me to Northwest Arkansas. Uh, actually, mine and Adria's both brought us to Northwest Arkansas. So we were in a new community, a new state. So a little bit isolated at that point because we didn't know the networks, the communities that were involved. Um, however, I will say um there's another organization here that we've and most recently over the past five years that we've also been connected with here in Northwest Arkansas called Prospectability. Um, now, what's really neat about Prospectability is they're also working with neurodiverse individuals, but they're coming, um, their goal, their mission is to drive inclusion in communities. So walking along uh cities, walking along organizations and companies to provide opportunities for people who are neurodiverse. And uh they've done a lot of really neat things here in Northwest Arkansas, and uh they've got big plans to even do even more to promote that. So those types of situations, uh Lynn, they really help get you connected with and out of isolation uh with others that are on that same path. I would imagine if anyone knew you and your family, they wouldn't feel isolated, you know, that yes, we definitely, you know, I we I I love getting to know people and um really uh spending time with people. And yes, yeah, we've we've formed a lot of great friendships over the years. So you have worked a lot with those families that are in those groups, but for families that are outside of the community, outside of those groups, what would you think most people get wrong about why those families may withdraw? I think it's um and and again, I want to go back to what I said a while ago. Well, there are strides being made, and things are getting better. Um, we're seeing more inclusion efforts, you know. Um, and I'll come back and address the families. I want to say just some of the experiences that we've had over the years. Um, I recently traveled through um Phoenix um in their airport, Sky Harbor International Airport, and was just blown away at how friendly they are to uh neurodiverse individuals. That's true. I've noticed in airports. Yes, like they they have like, you know, therapy dogs that are walking the terminals. They have, you know, sensory-friendly rooms. And you're seeing that happen a lot more across the United States in our major airports and things like that, uh, because traveling can be a real burden. Um, you know, places like Myrtle Beach, um, South Carolina is another one. They um, I think they still hold the title of being an autism-friendly city. Um, they offer a lot of great things for families who are on the spectrum and um lots of great things that they can do. Um, you know, my favorite place in the whole wide world, Walt Disney World. They're another great place where you can take uh your child and be kind of out, and you know, they're going to help you and accommodate you and do the things they need to do. Um, so going back to the families, so you know, you're right. You find those families that are on the same path. And yes, that does pull you out of a certain amount of isolation, Lynn, but there's still that ever-present just feeling that things are different for you, right? Um, and it does come, it comes in little things like um birthday parties, right? Um, you know, does your does your child get invited to the birthday parties like everybody else in the classroom? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, right? Um, you know, it can things like attending events, you know, things are planned like with your house of worship or church, right? Did they think through and have something there for the children that are that need maybe some additional uh resources, right, to attend that event. Um, sometimes yes, sometimes no, right? Um, so there's always that just feeling of we don't quite fit in, right? And so it's something that you really have to acknowledge, and and and we've learned you have to deal with that as parents, uh, because if you don't, it is a it is one of those things that can pull you into isolation even further. Absolutely.

Online Communities Need Guardrails

17:42

It does take a village. And for many neurodivergent families, that village now lives online. For isolated parents and kids who have never felt like they belonged anywhere, the internet can be the first place they go. But that same world that offers connection can expose vulnerable people to serious harm. The virtual village needs guardrails. Right now, it largely doesn't have them. So, in your own story, um, did you have to take any precautions with online do you now? Yeah. And and so I when I um, you know, kind of thinking about our our time today, Lynn, and just the questions and things, um, I I knew you were gonna ask this question. And so, you know, there's there's two different perspectives here. The first one is uh for parents or for caregivers. And and I I do want to say that for caregivers, because it may not necessarily always be the parents that are taking care of uh the child with autism or or any type of neurodiverse. But the the main thing that I would say is, and and you know this, uh, and I I I imagine this has been talked about many a times, probably in this podcast, that you know, you have to you have to vet all of the information that that you're consuming, you know, with with the internet uh out there. You know, there are some reputable um websites and resources that are out there. Um, you know, autismspeaks.org is a great um resource to to really learn more about autism. Um autism speaks is big into research, uh trying to get to understanding, you know, uh autism in general, but also just really, you know, what causes autism, all those different things, you know. Um they also are huge, you know, legislation advocacy, you know, in that form. Uh so they are a great organization. Um, but yeah, there besides autism speaks, there are plenty out there. We could probably spend a whole you know podcast on that particular list, but you really have to be careful. Sometimes people latch on to sound bites, and we've seen this happen over the last couple of years, uh, especially if it's got you know some sort of promise that, you know, there's been a cure or something, you know, we've figured out the we have figured out what causes it, right? Um, be careful with those types of things because that can oftentimes lead to false hope because those statements are typically not grounded in research, or it is research that has been spun in a way to give that, you know, that sound bite of a moment, right? So I think those are things that I would just word of caution. The other thing is, yes, there are, you know, social media, my goodness, there's you know, probably tons of types of forums or um, you know, groups within some of the platforms that you can join and hear from other parents. Here in Northwest Arkansas, a really good friend of ours started one of the most successful um really parent connection uh Facebook groups uh for moms. And it literally started just, and all it is, Lynn, is a resource that helps connect moms with things like, hey, my child uses feeding tubes. I we ran out over the weekend. I does anybody have this particular type of feeding tube? And you'll see plenty of people, yeah, we got some extra, you know. Well, let's connect and we'll get them over to you. Or, you know, my child has their first IEP meeting uh in schools. And so we're not really for sure how to prepare for that. And you'll see moms in that group, uh, caregivers in that group, because it's more than just moms uh that will step up and help provide the answer. So, my advice to parents, to caregivers, is just vet that who is responsible and who is leading that information, right? Like you said a while ago, the guardrails are so incredibly important. Uh, the other side of this I was just gonna say because yeah, that's the positive side about the internet and people. Yes, but there are groups where predators do prey. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, oftentimes you do see predators prey on the Most vulnerable, right? And that is this situation that we're talking about today. So for kiddos, yes, I think, or really it is, you know, thinking about the person with neurodiversity, uh really knowing them, and then what are the guardrails that need to be put in place? Because I don't know that it's a one size fits all. I think you have to really look at the individual, you have to look at, you know, um, their diagnosis, you know, what's going on, and then what's appropriate for them and what can they handle and what's healthy, right? My son is is has always been drawn to the screen ever since he was little. Uh I'll never ever forget when he got his first iPad, and it was just like, you know, earthshot, like mind blown, right? He just loves it. And, you know, what's really neat is you know, technology has come so far that there are a lot of great uh apps and things that are helping people with, you know, neuroneurodiversity, like uh doing storyboards or being able to provide visual aids and cues to help with communication. All those things are available through technology. But like you said, at the same time, there's also stuff that's not so great. And so you do have to set guardrails. And I'm very thankful that a lot of the technology today uh allows parents to do that. There's filter software that you can purchase, there's ways to set time limits on devices and things like that. And uh, you know, lots of great opportunity. But with in our world, we just have to really be careful. As Jax has gotten older and he's still, you know, he'd probably be like, Dad, I can't believe you're talking about this, but he sure does love YouTube, don't we all? Right? We all get pulled into the YouTube or TikTok or whatever, right? Short form videos. Uh, that's a great example, Galen, of what you're talking about. Because with most short form videos, um, and I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, but you do see a lot of different opinions and a lot of different perspectives, right? And that algorithm is feeding in. And so sometimes it can be hard to understand where is that information coming from and who's sharing that with you, right? So uh you do have to take that extra caution. Uh, we sure have over the years, and highly recommended for anyone as they start out on this journey. Maybe you've just found out that diagnosis, you know, that's probably something that you're going to have to figure out. Like, what do we need to do to start preparing for what those guardrails look like? Yeah, that is such a great, those are great words to live by because this is the area that I really do advocate in on my free time. Um, there's an alarming statistic in this area. Autistic individuals are estimated to be about two to seven times more likely to die by suicide than non-autistic people. Isolation and masking are directly linked to that risk. The conversation that we're having today on this is not just about belonging, but it is about saving lives. And I can tell you firsthand, I have seen predators prey on people that are most likely neurodivergent in forums. And that is my work. My life's goal is to make people accountable for that activity. So, kind of wrapping up this episode, if we take this to move forward, what would change if people around neurodivergent families led with curiosity and with presence instead of distance?

Curiosity That Creates Belonging

25:42

Because I think out in the community, sometimes people do tend to distance themselves if they don't know what to do. Maybe they notice that somebody has a neurodivergent family member, not necessarily a child, but maybe a family member, they might feel the need to distance themselves. Yeah, and I would say um that's a that is a really good question, uh Lynn, because um it is some people are are cautious. You're right, like I don't know what to do and I don't want to do the wrong thing, right? I think the thing that I would say to that person is don't be afraid to step out um and to to to reach out to that individual, to that family, right? Um Do you have any examples of anyone that did that? I I absolutely do. Um, you know, I mentioned earlier that one of the biggest uh areas, and we have seen improvement, but I I wouldn't say that, you know, again, not making a blanket statement. Um I I know that there probably are situations that still exist today, uh, is church. Um we we are believers, my wife and I, and and my son as well. And um, you know, that has been a struggle. We have been part of congregations where there was nothing. Like, you know, they they saw jacks, but the in and maybe another one or two, you know, individuals, but there was not any um uh intention with trying to figure out a solution, uh, you know, right off the bat. Like it was very much like we don't know what to do. And we're like, well, we can help with that. We can we can share ideas, and and we oftentimes would only for those things to fall flat, right? And then we've also been on the other side of that and and seen it done very, very well. In one particular instance, um, her name is Karen, um, and she actually formed um a special needs ministry here in Northwest Arkansas with one of our largest churches here. And um, we were kind of we'd been in isolation for a while, and we had not gone to church, we had not been doing that typical routine of every Sunday. And, you know, we missed it. We missed being in that that community, that congregation. And so um we saw on this church online had information, and my wife went on and um she put in the request, like just kind of emailing to say, you know, we're interested, you know. Um, and literally this was Saturday, and you know, she said, Hey, I sent the message, but we're probably not gonna hear anything because you know, most church staff, like on the weekends, that they'll they'll follow back up on Monday because everything's in motion for this upcoming Sunday. My wife got a phone call like within two hours. Uh it was very, very fast. And and and Karen, you know, she said, Hey, you know, we're so excited, you filled out the form, and we're gonna be ready for Jackson tomorrow and share with me a little bit about him and what is he like. And she spent, you know, time with my wife on the phone and getting to know him. And the next morning we we arrived and guess what? Everything was ready. They were enthusiastic, they were excited, they had a buddy for him uh to go into you know his typical his peers, like to what they were doing on a Sunday morning. And uh it just blew us away. And we actually um were members of that church for over 10 years, and um it was a great, great response, and they're still going strong with that ministry. Um, we've we've God's taking us on to another place, but it just was really um it that was one of those moments when when somebody really got it, right? Belonging, belonging, right? I also want to speak to um here in Northwest Arkansas, um, Jax um has spent the almost his entire school career in Bentonville Public Schools. And um, I I will say we could not have asked for a better experience for him. Um, as you know, the pandemic hit about the time that he was in, you know, finishing up uh junior high into high school. And um, that whole experience with him was also awesome because of Bentonville. He ultimately decided, and my wife did as well, to go home to homeschool his last two years of his high of his you know school career, his junior and senior year. And so, but even then the school district still checked on us and they still, they still, you know, would periodically give us a phone call. They would, they even helped us continue to help us with evaluations and you know, all those different things that were needed as he transitioned into college. So uh very, very proud of those two situations because they really spoke to us to be like, hey, we see you, we see the uniqueness, and we're here to help you and provide those resources. I think it's it's just amazing now that there's so many people in the community. So shout out to Bentonville High School. That is another reason to go to that school. But there's so much more for people and understanding and a community of belonging for people that are neurodivergent that when my son was going through school, it was more like, I wish your son would act more like the rest of the kids. Yes, yeah. So that's obviously what it feels like when you belong. What are some things that you would tell other families to do to help families of neurodivergent children or family members to feel that belonging, say when they have a birthday party or when they have some sort of a get-together? What could I do as a community member to make you and your family feel comfortable? I need to be thinking of that. Um, you know, I think ultimately, and Adria would say the same thing if she was sitting here with me, um, it's just the intentionality, right? Um, you know, you asked me the question a while ago of like when somebody is uh observing maybe from a distance and they're not sure what to do, just ask. Curiosity. How can I help you? Yeah, curiosity is one of the biggest things. When folks take that interest, when they when that curiosity drives that that really leads to compassion, where they see, like, you know, hey, what what can I do to help? You know, and it may truly, Lynn, it may be as simple as just you asking means so incredibly much. Yeah, right. Because it's that acknowledgement of being seen, right? It really helps families like ours know that, hey, I've got this support network here because I know you and I are friends outside of this podcast. You know, I know that I can come to you and I can ask a question, or you're gonna help me with something, you know. Uh maybe I we need a we have a question we don't quite understand, and we need help navigating what that means. So this is funny. Yeah. Um, a little bit of a sad story, but I had just found out that my son had passed away. It was on a Tuesday, and I went into shock and I had a meeting, and it was actually with Justin. So he was the first person I saw after my son passed away, and he just kind of took everything over to help me just get through that one minute. So um I know that was a really, really hard time for you, and uh yeah, I think it's that community when we're when we show up for each other. Absolutely, you know, and and I so I think just acknowledging it. Um, and then I would say take it one step further. Follow up. When you you follow up, you're gonna acknowledge it, but that curiosity, you know, as it leads to that compassion, it should also lead to you wanting to know more, understand. Right. Um, Adria's parents, um, we are very truly blessed. Uh and one of the things, whenever the diagnosis came, I'll never forget this. My mother-in-law ran to Barnes and Noble because, you know, internet, you know, she was on the internet too, but she ran to Barnes and Noble and bought, I think, as many books as she possibly could and started reading, right? Because just that under trying to understand, hey, life's gonna look different. Life is different for them. What can I do now? What can I do? Right, right. The other thing that I think, um, and I'm really proud of where we are moving is just to understand that everybody has uniqueness, right? And and and and we, as we are lead, you know, teams and groups or events and things like that, approaching those things with an understanding of is this inclusive for everyone, or are we focusing in on one specific, specific demographic? That is great, right? So, like, you know, again, going back to some of the examples I used earlier, you know, you wouldn't think that an airport uh being mindful of that would be a big deal. It is extremely big deal, right? Traveling can be one of the most stressful times for families uh with a child that is neurodivergent. And so, you know, it's those, that type of intentionality. Um, nothing makes me more happy than to drive through a city and see multiple accessible playgrounds, right? Where there's been thought into, you know what, we're gonna design this playground. So this is for everyone, right? So approaching things with intentionality and being like, hey, I see you. And you know what? I want everyone to have the same experience, no matter what their uniqueness is or what their walk of life or how they're getting to this moment. And it's amazing with all the things going on in the world that aren't so great. All these things that are great that you notice, it may be a simple thing, but they it's just amazing to me how much better things are than they were back in the 2000s. Yeah.

Autism Is A Spectrum Final Takeaways

36:14

And I and I I want to also say this um, you know, I I feel like I've I've shared a lot of positivity in things like life is great. Don't get me wrong and don't don't under don't uh misunderstand when I tell you that I've had some extremely low moments and um my wife has too. Fortunately, um that has never happened at the same time. And I I don't know why. You know, maybe that's just because how everything is balancing out, you know, maybe it's a spiritual thing. I I don't know, but uh I remember this conversation you and I had. I do um I do attribute it, you know, to my faith, but I would say that it's in those moments that you know, as a spouse, I I let Adria have that moment, right? Um and then she also lets me have that moment. And we we helped you're validating each other's exactly and allowing them to yeah, and so I think sometimes when somebody is, you know, observing, right, uh in the community or whatever, um just even being there to listen, you know, like I I'm gonna tell you that this frustrates me, and here's why it frustrates me. That means so much, right? Um the other thing that I want to address is you know, we've talked about kind of parents' perspective, we've and also uh an individual on the spectrum or who is neurodivergent. Being neurodiverse, being having autism, autism is a spectrum, right? So uh, you know, it you can be anywhere on that spectrum, you know, it's and it is wide, Lynn. I mean, it's extremely wide, right? So autism is not going to impact every person exactly the same. I mean, we we know that and we see that. Um, and and where I'm going with this is to say don't just assume that that person who is neurodiverse, maybe they can't speak. Maybe they're on in where they're at in the spectrum, um, they can't communicate verbally. They can still hear what you're saying or they can see your actions. They may never show a response to being excluded, but they still feel that. And, you know, those things attribute to isolation. I think if Jax were sitting here, um, he would tell you there have been times in his life when he has felt very alone. Um, he doesn't have in a lot of ways, he has a lot of friends, a lot of great friends. He has a great community who loves him and appreciates him and so proud of him for putting himself out there. Uh, but he would tell you that there were times when he was like, I kind of feel lonely, right? Yeah. Um, so um I think don't just assume, like, you know, if that person is sitting in the room that you can have conversations or talk about something, oh, he doesn't understand, she doesn't understand, they don't understand, right? Chances are they do, and they are feeling those emotions just like you and I do. Um, and again, that can attribute to that feeling of loneliness and isolation. Well, Justin, thank you for today. And what you've named today is something a lot of people have felt, but maybe not have had a language to. Yeah. Um, so thank you for very welcome. It's my pleasure. To everyone listening, if any part of this conversation sounded like your life, you're not alone in it. And if it sounded like someone you love or know, now you know a little bit more about where they've been. This is just in time to save a life. I'm Len Hurst, guest hosting for the great Jessica G. We'll see you next time. If you're struggling, remember how you think is how you feel. If your feelings feel heavy, start by shifting the thought. You're not stuck, your brain can change, so can your story. I'm Jessica G. This is the Just in Time podcast, and I'll see you next time. Until then, keep going. Never give up. And remember, the world is better with you in it, whether you believe it or not. To help reach others, please share this with your friends, family, and don't forget to like, subscribe, and donate.