Ep. 24 - Maternal Instincts: Trusting Your Gut in Postpartum

Postpartum recovery and early motherhood are rarely as picture-perfect as social media suggests. The transition into caring for a newborn often brings unexpected physical trauma, sleepless nights, and an overwhelming wave of pressure that leaves many mothers feeling isolated in their struggles. Host Jessica G sits down with guests Claire Stringfellow, Melissa Santos, and Ambur Davis to pull back the curtain on what the postpartum period actually looks like for different women.

We sit down to unpack the varying spectrums of childbirth and recovery, ranging from fast natural deliveries to severe physical injuries like broken tailbones and spinal issues. The group gets into the raw complexities of feeding choices, contrasting the painful realities of damaged nipples and pumping anxiety with the importance of adopting a "fed is best" mindset. The conversation highlights critical moments of maternal intuition, including a high-stakes story of catching a newborn's hospital-acquired infection by choosing to trust gut instinct over absence of obvious symptoms.

Navigating early motherhood means dealing with the heavy weight of mom guilt, body image pressure, and the myth of bouncing back instantly. Beyond the emotional toll, the logistical realities of returning to work while pumping or managing multiple children require letting go of rigid expectations. True recovery relies heavily on leaning into a support system, establishing self-compassion, and recognizing that shifting your plan is a necessary strategy rather than a personal failure.

If you care about maternal health, honest birth recovery discussions, and practical postpartum advice, you will get a lot from this episode. Please like, subscribe, and share this video with a mother who needs to hear it today. What is one piece of advice or realization that helped you drop the guilt during your own postpartum journey?

If you are in a crisis or feel unsafe, call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hi, I'm just G, and this is the Justin Time podcast. If you're struggling today, I want you to know this podcast is here for you, but it's not a substitute for professional help. If you're in a crisis or feel unsafe, please call or text 988 or dial 911 for immediate support. There are people out there who will listen and can help. On this show, I'll be sharing personal experiences, mindset shifts, talking with key experts, and sharing real tools that help me go from barely surviving to thriving. This is not about quick fixes or one size fits all advice. It's raw, it's honest, it's what worked for me and what I believe can help others too. Let's walk together from darkness to health. Welcome back, everybody. Thank you so much for joining just in time to save a life. I am so excited today to do this podcast. It's been one in the making. I've been talking about it for a couple of weeks now. Um and today we're going to talk about postpartum motherhood and what that looks like. Um, every pregnancy is different, every experience, you know, is different. And postpartum is one of those things that you don't necessarily feel prepared for. You can read the books, um, feel like, you know, try to do everything right and still somehow it feels like things are falling apart around you. And so today we just want to have a real raw, honest conversation with these ladies here. Um, so thank you for joining us. This is Jane, Amber, and Melissa. I'm so grateful for you guys to be here. Um, and we all have our own little story, and we hope that by us sharing our story with you today, that it will make you feel less alone and really get into some of the things that nobody talks about. Like picking up a car seat. Like how many weeks, like when you get out of the house, maybe four or five weeks, just picking up a car seat and like putting it on the base in the car with like a back injury. Yeah, that was a rough one for me. I was like, I did not expect that, you know, just the just the physical strength alone. Yeah. So today we're kind of gonna get into some of those conversations and and talk about those. Um, but Jane, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself? We're so happy to have you. First of all, I have to flex on my friend over here. She's a board certified ER doctor. Um, and we've had the um honor of getting to know each other and kind of walking through postpartum journey. Actually, Miss Donna Bella and Alexandra are in the house today. So if you hear them, that's our babies over there, but they're not on video. So, Jane, welcome and thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Of course, and uh like me, my child likes to talk a lot. So we'll probably be hearing her. Um, yeah, I'm Jane. I work in the area. I met Jessica uh at her hair salon, and we both met each other at five weeks pregnant, so we've really been in the thick of it together. Um, so I'm really glad that you invited me here today because yeah, we definitely have some things to touch on. Yeah, the newborn trenches are real.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Yeah, yeah, it was definitely scary. And I I went in at 37 weeks and she was three weeks later, or two weeks later, I think. Two weeks later, yeah. Two weeks later, and I was like, girlfriend, I'm gonna tell you everything so you can be prepared. And like, not like wanting to scare her, but I almost felt like I did because like my experience was completely different than hers.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

She had me stretching the night before I went in the paper because I was so nervous.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Well, I broke my tailbone, the last tipper right. I'm sorry, I broke my back. She told me, she's like, Don't say you broke your tailbone. And it's like you'll get less empathy. But honestly, breaking your tailbone hurts so bad.

SPEAKER_05 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

And then had a bulging disc in L4 and L5. And um her birth story, she went in and pushed her baby out in seven minutes. So, like we said, every birth story is different, and everyone's struggle points are different as well. Um, it's okay. She's like, I want to be a part of this podcast. She does.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Well, with all the struggles that we have, breastfeeding was one of ours. So we bottle feed. Yeah. We dill breast milk, but that has been a struggle in itself. But for times like this, it makes it a little bit easier, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, yeah. What was your um experience like breastfeeding?

SPEAKER_03 4:23

I did not breastfeed with my first daughter. I delivered when I was 20. So my boobs, my body kind of mentality. I really did not want to do that, and so I did not. Um, but with my boys, I I did try to breastfeed. My middle child was tongue-tied. So, and um it was very difficult for him. I had to do the whole nipple shield thing. Yeah. Um, also have like button nipples, TMI. So, like he we struggled hard. I think I made it maybe six weeks with him, and then with my last child, I um breastfed for months until I ended up hospitalized. Um, I think the third or fourth time, and at that point I dried up from stress. Like, yeah, hospital pumps were not pulling anything out of this, so yeah. We just slowly dried up and it was okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, I mean, six weeks is I think three weeks is amazing. My goal was three weeks, and I'm still breastfeeding.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

And you've made it past both of actually, you've had three goals at this point. Yes, I've every time you make it to one goal, you're like, I did it, and now my new goal, which yeah, it should be level.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

I want to continue in the beginning, it was very hard though. I had strawberry milk, okay. Literally, strawberry milk, my nipples were damaged. I was seeing the lactation consultant like eight times. I I went to the hospital eight times and like weighed her because she was all also growth restricted. Like she was so small, the whole pregnancy was stressful because they were like, you know, at any point, if these levels get lower, we're gonna have to take her earlier. And so, but she was completely fine. Like, I was the one with the issues. It was the recovery for me. Like, I was so surprised by the recovery. Like, as soon as the epidural wore off, I was like, something is not right. And I was crying, I couldn't walk for two weeks. Like, you were there with me in it all, and she's bouncing around, like, come on over. Like, I see her on day two, and she's like, I'm sorry. She's like, I don't want to tell you about my first story because yours was so horrible.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

I was like, Yeah, mine was so smooth compared to hers.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, yeah. And like, like everyone has different struggles, like her, you were gonna share your breastfeeding um struggles.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Um, so I I mean I think with any mother, like you have a sense of responsibility where you feel like you want to feed your child, you know, you know by this, you know the science, you know the nurture, you were like, okay, this is what I know is best. But the mental health aspect, so for me, she doesn't latch. Um, and I think especially being friends with you, and I saw how easily your baby latched. I mean, she came out starving. You know, yeah. Um but mine she she doesn't like to latch so much, so I think I kind of took that as a failure. But I mean, I talk to women in the ear all the time that have problems when they they think their babies aren't eating enough and things like that, and I've always said fed is best. So I've had to kind of learn to take my own advice. Um, but there's you know, beautiful aspects to it. Like my husband gets to feed her, you know, he gets to bond with her, and and especially being a full-time working mom, when I go back, yeah, it's gonna be easier a little bit getting ready when he's able to feed the baby for me. Um, but I do get like this feeling of like impending doom every time I put on my pumps because I have to pump because you know she doesn't latch.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Um, so I don't know what that is, but it's a sense of like severe anxiety every time I place my pumps on and I just do it and get it over with. But I think with anybody who has to pump or breastfeed, just that amount of responsibility and knowing that's you know, I just I don't think women talk about that enough.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

No, no. And I mean, I remember, you know, listening to her cry and trying to latch and just like feeling for you like in that moment, you know, and that's why it's like everybody has such different struggles. Like I could barely walk, her baby wouldn't latch. Like one of my friends, she's like, she wouldn't take the bottle, she wouldn't eat. It was like they had to give her a feeding tube. I mean, there's so many different situations, and it's really important to have like grace for ourselves and compassion, and we're trying to do everything right, and we think, like, why isn't this working? Like, my body should know what it's supposed to do, you know? And then sometimes it doesn't. And I mean, I can definitely see why women like would give up in the very beginning with breastfeeding because it was absolutely painful. Like, when I tell you there's straw, like she was drinking strawberry milk, like and um the lactation consultant was like, Okay, like your nipples are damaged, like if you want to quit, it's okay. She's like as like fed as best, and I was like, Well, I I want to keep trying, you know, but I was like, should it be this painful? And um, I asked her, I'm like, should it be this painful? And she goes, No, it should not be this painful. And I think that's something that like everybody says when you know I first got pregnant, I would asking lots of questions because I own a salon, and you know, you know, 99% of my clients are women, and I was like, So how long do you breastfeed? And you know, I got to like really hear everyone's stories, and they were just so so different.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

And it's lonely too. Like you're the one up at 3 a.m. breastfeeding your baby, yeah. You know, even if you have a very supportive partner, um, you know, I feel like Jess and I have very supportive partners, yeah. Um, even then, you're still the one, you know, like because why wake the other person if they're not necessarily needed in that moment? Yeah, even for somebody who pumps, I have to get up and pump anyway. Yeah you know, so it is it does feel a little bit eyesight in the middle of the night. Obviously, you're bonding with your baby and there's those magical moments too, but um, it's exhausting. It definitely is exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

And I think that goes back to like mental health because I think I've called you several times and I'm like, like, how how does this work? I haven't asked you, and I'm like, also, when do you start losing the weight? Everyone says you're gonna lose the weight when you when you breastfeed. And I'm like, this is a myth. You guys lied to me. I'm like, where is it? It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not like you know, just falling off like you all said it would.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, it did not, it's not falling off.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

No, no, and so I definitely think there's like a myth to that because like, hey, you're starving, like your story, you were telling me it didn't eat everything. You're eating everything, yes, because you're hungry, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

And there's a there's a mental toll that it takes on you. You're right, like the loneliness of it, the fact that you are the one getting up at night, but yeah, um, I think the mom guilt creeps in. Mom guilt. No matter what you do, if you're making the right choice for yourself and your baby, yeah. And there just is no right or wrong answer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

It's like I feel like we've like navigated a lot in such a short amount of time. Um like it just seems like yesterday, but now they're already, you know, eight weeks and eight weeks, right? She'll be nine weeks soon.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

No, she's eight weeks as of yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

As of yesterday, yeah, and Donabill will be 11 weeks on Friday. And now it's like you get through one phase, and then now we're like going trying to like transition and go through another phase, and it's completely new challenges. Like right now, it's like me, I'm going back to work, you know. Pumping at work is so uncomfortable. Like, I'm like, I can't walk around in front of my clients and have my pumps in, like my arms move at work, you know. I'm just sitting like at my desk and like breathe and relax to where I can even get any milk, and it's like I don't know how much longer, you know, I can keep that up.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. And it's just yeah, it is hard. But I will say that one of the most beautiful things about um getting pregnant is that I felt so much love from so many women, like just even at the baby shower. Um, I it just opens up like I don't know, more it just opens up so much more conversation and relatability. And like I've never felt so loved as a mom from other women, like in my life, and that's really beautiful. And that's also why I was like really excited to do this because I was like, we all are in this together, and we know like when you've been through it, it's like you you know. So thank you guys for being here.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Of course. I'm gonna teach you.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Oh, I'm convinced, like, I'm a superwoman now because like I don't know how I got through like that first couple of days of breastfeeding. I actually had to go back to the hospital the day they checked us out because I was on a pain medication for the broken tailbone and you couldn't fill your script on a Sunday. And I didn't understand how important pain management was. Well, my blood pressure went to 215 over like 125. Wow. And I had to go back and you know, they figured what it was because I didn't know, but it was the breastfeeding was sending me over the edge because I was having a hard time with the latching, but I was so like convinced I didn't want to give up, but it was, you know, and I'm really like again, I'm surprised that I didn't give up, honestly. And so I don't blame any woman that doesn't breastfeed or just go strictly to formula. It's honestly if your baby's being fed, like that's the main thing, you know, yeah, through all of it.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

I think I hate the way that it's um phrased I gave up or I'm giving up. You're not, you're making a decision that's right for you and your baby. Yeah, you're not giving up, you're you're changing it, you're pivoting based on what you and your baby need.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

The relationship with your child is important, and for us, like I would literally stick my nipple in her mouth and she would start screaming and you feel you feel a little offended, you feel a little rejected.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

No, she does that to my left one, she likes the right one, they do like the left one, she was screaming, so I felt that like just last night. I was like, I don't understand why you won't like this one.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, you you share in their frustration, and this is supposed to be a fun time, like they're only the small ones. Yeah, you really don't want to hang on to the textbook, like yeah, you know, my mom did this or my best friend was able to do this, so I need to do this. Yeah. Um, your child just wants you and wants to be fed, but even for me, I mean, it's just we all get a little irrational because you know, we want to be the best moms that we could be and compare to other moms. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

That really makes me think about like how compassionate you were towards me. Um, when I was going, I was I had a really hard recovery, and I was feeling guilty for complaining so much. And you know, I've I have to catch myself like even now, because I don't want to like become like a complaining person. But I felt so much guilt for complaining about the amount of pain that I was in, but I was like struggling like a lot. I'm so glad that I had you. But there were times where I'm like, I swear you guys know me really well, and I'm like, I swear I'm not a negative Nancy, I'm not normally a complainer, but like this hurts so bad. And she's like, Yeah, I she's like, I feel you. She's like, Don't worry, don't feel that way. And like when you had that compassion for me, like it made me feel like, oh my gosh, like, thank you so much, you know, like somebody just like sees you, and um, and it was like you're you kept telling me you're like your pain is real, like your pain is real, like you're not making it up anymore. Yeah, you broke your back, you broke your back, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

And you're kind of breastfeeding, you're up late, and then like you said, they shut that epiduro off and it feels like you're hit by your train. Yeah, I mean, and then you're also you were a little confused, you're just like, Why am I in this much pain? You had to have follow-up imaging to confirm some of your stuff. So, like, you know, and had you not had that follow-up imaging, you would have just thought you had a really bad experience. Yeah, you know, and which did I tell you that?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, Santos, yeah, her husband. I called him like two days after I gave birth, and I was like, I need to know because at the hospital, they're like, You probably broke your tailbone. I'm like, probably, like, I I'm a fax and data-driven person. Like, I need to know like what kind of recovery I'm looking at. Yeah. And then also, you know, the pelvic floor is attached to that tailbone, and so I was having like I was just peeing on myself, like I uncontrollably. And then I would start crying because then I was embarrassed, you know, and like could not control it. And I still have issues, and I'm working with the pelvic floor therapist and the fractures not confirmed healed, but there was there was yeah, there was a lot going on, yeah. So it was it was intense, but you know, I am glad that I went and got imaging too. So then you know, so I feel like also that brings up another topic is like you have to advocate for yourself too. You know, it's like I was at the hospital, why don't you just do a little x-ray real quick just to find out if that is the case that day they you know and then but I will say as a as a physician, like I understand why they didn't.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

It doesn't change anything in the aspect that like there's no treatment for it. Yeah, however, I think for the mental aspect, you need to know what your prognosis is, like what your course of like you were saying, your course of healing, what does that look like? Yeah. Um and I think for me actually through this all, I've become you you say I'm empath, I believe I'm empathetic. I went into a profession where empathy is important, obviously. But um, you know, you I've really I view mothers differently in the ER, especially women that come in with like hyperemesis where they're vomiting all the time. Yeah. Um, and then you know, I've had people who come in with that pain into my ER, and I'm like, look, imaging is not gonna change anything because you don't want to give somebody a massive bill, especially if they don't have injury. Right, right. But through your story, I've kind of learned there's a flipped aspect to this. Like, what is their course of action? Like you waking up every day wondering if we're gonna get better or worse. Or, you know, not to use the word gaslight, but you're almost gaslighting yourself a little bit. Like, why is it this painful? Yes, yes. So obviously in the ER, we do have um a list of criteria for back imaging. You do not back image everybody, you do not radiate everybody that comes in. There are criteria for it, but there's a flip side of medicine. Not everything is black and white, not everything is evidence-based as much as you would be, because there's the mental health aspect, there's the human aspect of medicine. Yeah. So you to treat every patient differently. So I think for me, through your experience, I've learned okay, this is where you have the shared decision making with your patients. Look, this is a little bit of radiation, not much. You know, it is gonna cost a little bit, but these are the answers maybe we will or will not get from it, but at least you can know what it isn't. Or yeah, you know, even if it doesn't change the outcome, at least you know what to expect. So at least for me, I think that's a discussion. I'll start having my patients in the ER because not everything is so textbook.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. Because like for me, it was just like I needed to know what I was looking at because things felt so dark. And I was like, I'm in so much pain. Like, I was just like feeling like, Am I gonna make it through this? Like, why is this so hard? And then you get some nurse that probably shouldn't be a nurse anymore. She goes, Well, you are 40. I was like, Thanks. Um, my husband looked at me, he's like, Um, ma'am, is that like is that necessary?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Like 40 is the news.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Did you really need to say that? And I was like, I didn't even care at that point, but I was like, Yeah, you're probably right. Thank you. Oh no, you know, and so it's just like advocating for yourself, and yeah, for me, that was like a a game changer, you know. So I should have been here husband's office and that was like cracking like help me.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

She felt a little less crazy if you can be like, Oh, there is something wrong. Yeah, yeah. I'm not just people might think I'm overreacting to childbirth, but there's literally something wrong.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah, yeah. So I had a bulging disc in my neck, and through like the birthing process, it like I don't know, got worse. So I got an epidural in that, and then because I see a pain manager specialist for that, and um, I was like, my low back is hurting, and I thought it was just a bruise from the epidural site. Well, it turns out that I have a bulging disc in L4 and L5 with an angle. You did, gosh, yeah. Yeah, I kept asking everyone. I'm like, did your epidural sauce come?

SPEAKER_01 20:04

It's not, it's not from the needle, so you you're you injured something, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

So there's just so much that goes into it. But um, okay, tell me about you. Like, how old are your babies? Um, I know you went back to work like two days later.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Was it your first your first one? They're they're all different. Yeah. So let's hear it. I'm Amber. I'm a business manager at Voxy. Um, I have four kids. Uh, three of them I have birthed. Um, the let's, I don't know, which one do you want to know about? Whatever you want to feel like you want to share. Every pregnancy, I even feel like this stage of my life, my age, like the situation, the relationship I was in, it all like impacts the pregnancy, the delivery, the postpartum, all of it. Yeah. So um, well, going off of your statement of um advocating for yourself, I do think that women should trust their gut and advocate for themselves. Um, my youngest, when he was born, I did go back to work five days later um with him in hand. That just is like mind-blowing. Five days later, I couldn't even walk. I worked for myself. So, you know, you don't have maternity leave, and I had just my company was doing very well, and I needed to, I needed to be there. So I created a playroom in my office, and he just was with me every day. But yeah, um, we had a fairly normal delivery. The cord was wrapped around his neck three times. So when he came out, I I thought I had delivered a dead baby. Um that was traumatizing in itself, but he seemed to be okay. Um, we were discharged like normal. Um, but when we got home, it was evening, everybody went to sleep, and I had this gut feeling. I said something's not right, and I don't know what it is. I cannot tell you there were no symptoms, there were no signs. Everything in me said something's wrong. And I stayed up All night long. I let um my husband sleep all night until the sun came up. And they looked at him and I talked to my mom and I said, something's not right. Like I want to go back to the hospital. And we drove to children's. Um, and my son ended up having a bacterial bacterial infection from the hospital. So I don't know if I didn't trust my gut if he would be here today. Cause we spent the whole five-day maternity leave that I took um at children's um with him like hooked up to anything and everything. And they never questioned me, they never second guessed, they never asked me what symptoms I was like honing in on. They just said, You feel like something's wrong, let's go. And we all went to the hospital and spinal tap and some blood work later, they were like, I don't know if you would have made it. So wow, just I think for me, like giving yourself grace and just trusting your gut is probably the most important thing, whether you know, no matter what that pregnancy or that delivery, or you know, any of it's like it's just I think every woman has some kind of like maternal instinct, yeah, intuition.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Uh-huh. You can put your finger on it, but it's there.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Oh, it's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. It's beautiful. Um, I feel like there's just so many like miracle stories that we hear about just moms having that knowing, you know. So it's beautiful. I'm gonna keep listening to that. Because sometimes I think I question it. We we question it sometimes, you know. 100% because we don't want to feel like we're being too crazy or we're like over, you know, worrying or whatever it is. But but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

I know for a second I was like, are they gonna admit me for like postpartum hysteria or what? Because I walked in, I mean, I looked probably really insane at that moment. I hadn't slept. His was a 36-hour labor.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Wait, so you had the infection or your baby? He had the infection. Okay, yeah, that's what I said.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

So I hadn't slept. I mean, this at this point was like 48 hours, 50 hours with me not sleeping and being in labor and delivery. And yeah, um, I was afraid that they were gonna take me too.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Like, yeah, that's that's that's wild. But because of the support system, I didn't even question myself much more than that. And everybody took me seriously and serious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

And you have something about you too. Like when you know, you know. Like I know that about you. Like I can look at you and it's there's like it's either a strong yes or it's a strong no. There's not really hardly a maybe with you. It's like, no. Amber, no. That's pretty much it. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Um, all right, Melissa, do you want to share some of your first stories? Or so I'm Melissa.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

I've been a stay-at-home mom for 18 years. Woohoo! Um, I I did the birthing school, the natural, both of mine were natural births. Um, I did the breastfeeding for 22 months, but I I was so disappointed I couldn't get to 24. Oh my god. It goes back to that failure thing. Um that's that's impressive. I learned after my first child because my second one, I was like, you know what? I'm not setting a goal. I breastfed him for eight months, and um everything felt good. I didn't fight pacifiers because with my first, I was the pacifier. We didn't hung, we didn't do any of that stuff. And when I would see um doing all of the natural things, just like the natural birth, I felt such intense pain that um the next time I was in a hospital, they had to catch me because I was fainting because like trauma from the anticipation, post-traumatic stress, like it was it was insane. And I said I would never do it naturally again, but I did, and it this it was all better the second time. Yeah, but um I was that mom that like I went to a friend's pregnancy or her birth, and I could hear through the door her doctor, they're like talking in between, yeah, and they're laughing, and um it's weird because it builds like a little resentment that she's having this nice labor. And mine was so hard. Um it was short, but it was so intense and so hard that when I got in the car that night, I just cried. But it's like you have to let go of um all of the pressure, the pressure to deliver naturally or the pressure to breastfeed because it does separate these moms. It separates, we're all doing the same thing, yeah. But um it it makes us uh uh fight for what we think is right, but everything is right if you're just trying to do what's best for you and your baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been an adventure, but what you said your first birth was the most painful. Yes, um, I I had a six-hour labor, um, but it was really intense and I had back labor, so I couldn't get on the bed. What is back labor? Um so I didn't feel it in the lower stomach, the pressure, I felt it also in my back.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

The placenta is in the back. And she was it's usually the location of the placenta or maybe even how your uterus is rotated in your body. So you're when your uterus contracts instead of feeling it in the front, maybe you're feeling it in the back.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

And she was sunny side up. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

So it's up, yeah. So the baby is flipped, so usually they come with their foreheads kind of facing down as they come out, they like rotate out and come up. Um, but when babies are flipped, like would they breach or she just was facing the wrong way? Just facing the wrong way, just facing the wrong way. So that's all that was.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

But the only difference was since I couldn't get on the bed, my doula, she was like, Look, you're going to have this baby now. She she said, Climb up on the bed on your knees. And I grabbed onto the back of the bed and had the baby on your knees. Yes. Yeah. So it was very it was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

But um, I think the intensity of it just being six hours, everything's opening so fast. Yeah, yeah. It's just painful. Yeah, how many hours was it total? Um, the labor was about six to seven hours. Okay, and this was no epidural. No, oh my gosh. In fact, I asked for it. I needed that epidural. Well, I asked for it when I was eight and a half, so I'm like, I can't do this. My body was exhausted. But yeah, I was like, I give up, I give up. And my Tula was like, it's too late. She's like, You're gonna get on that bed on your knees, and and she was yeah there quickly. But um, yeah, it was very intense. Did you have an epidural on your second? No, my second one was in a uh the birthing center that we used to have here in Brockle. And I did a water birth in the bathtub just to kind of ease. I was on the be in the bathtub like for a few hours. Yeah, it was another five-hour labor on my hands and knees, and I delivered him myself. Like I felt like Simba! Yeah, they were like, Do you want to grab him? Just reach down and pull your own baby out. And I I hooked them and no epidural, that's amazing. What was your recovery like? Um my recovery was pretty good, but I have um I didn't have a lot of issues after, and I have a very supportive husband, as you know. Yeah, so um he would literally take the babies, bring them back to nurse, and you know, middle of the night, he got up, he did diaper changes, brought them to me to breastfeed. I would sit up in bed um two or three times a night. Like I just had to focus on the feeding, so it really did make postpartum and all of that a lot of different partners are so important, so important.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

I don't know how single moms do it, you know. I I just have a completely different perspective now, you know, and amount of empathy for single moms because I don't know how it would do it alone either or with with a great partner. Like, there's just no way, you know? There's just no way.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I had like a moment the other day where I was looking at her and feeding her in the middle of the night. It was one of those moments where it's like, oh, I wish I could she could latch because then she could just wake up to me half asleep. Um, but I was being very thankful that I could even, you know, make milk and get to feed her the way that I planned, quote unquote. Um, but I was thinking about all the mothers in the world, maybe in like war stricken countries, like where they can't figure out how to feed their kid. Yeah. Because when she cries for two seconds when she's hungry, I freak out. I'm like, I need to feed her, she's starving to death. And I my heart really goes out for all these women in poverty or maybe in abusive relationships or where they don't have supportive partners and you're just trying to figure out how to feed your baby. And we all know breast milk shuts off when you're stressed, when you don't consume the calories, when you're not getting the sleep. Yeah. And I just think of all these women who do it alone, and I'm like, I just started crying. I mean, obviously, our hormones play a part into it, but I was just so thankful for my situation because every baby needs to be fed and needs a loving, supportive home, and that's just not the lifestyle that everybody has.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah. Yeah. I um just talking about babies crying. So last night I had a moment and I had worked all day, pumped at work, got home, worked out with my trainer, pushed me way too hard. Like great trainer, but just pushed me so hard. And I don't want TMI, but I woke up with like another thrombosed hemorrhoid, and those are like really painful and like ruining my life right now. And um, anyways, she was crying, and I I I changed her diaper. I like gave her food, I gave her my breasts, I tried formula, I tried a bottle, and like she would not stop crying, and and my husband was gone. And I like felt like I was about to like freak out because I was also like in so much pain from like overworking and getting home, working out, like there's semi over the edge, and then trying to like take care of her. I just like I hit a straight wall, and I felt so guilty this morning when I woke up because I let her cry for the first time for like 20 minutes in her crib.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Because you're like she's fed, she diapers changed, she's healthy, she didn't have a fever. That's the part that really sucks because you're just like I have no further steps.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

I've cycled through the motions multiple times, you know, and it just you were saying it's okay to let them cry sometimes because I mean I literally woke, woke, woke up like I felt so guilty, but I felt like it was better for me just like take a moment and just like let her cry it out just like a little bit. Um absolutely, but like I feel I still feel bad right now about it.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

That's the part my mom would tell me she was like, Amber, they don't have mom guilt. You're the only one that's carrying all that mom guilt. They will be okay. Like she's not gonna be scarred, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

She's gonna be literally cry for 20 minutes and she's not gonna have abandonment as she is when she grows up.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

It's helpful for you to self-soothe at times, I think.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I mean, I really want to be attached to you, and that's just not feasible. Yeah, like I mean, you can put them in a little Moby sling, you can have them hold them all the time, but when you have to maintain a home if you're a full-time mom or if you have other children, this is our first child. I cannot imagine having multiple. No, eventually you have to let that kid kind of sit. Like if their diapers change, they're fed, they're good. Yeah, I mean, what else are you doing at that point? And then you have other aspects of your life that you have to fulfill.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

So there's so many layers to motherhood, you know, and then like working is just like just trying to balance it all. Like there's no balance.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

It's better for both of you to have that little break moment too, because they pick up on your, you know, anxiousness and stress, and just taking that moment to breathe for yourself, then you know, going back to your baby is yeah, better for both of you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

My sister has a friend who had a really clonky baby.

unknown 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

They give her like the gripe liquid. Yeah, I tried that. But she still would cry. And after burping her and everything, so she got silenced, like noise-cancelling headphones. So she'll sit there and rock her baby, but with the sound canceling because her mental health was really, really at stake. She was struggling in her relationship with her husband. She's struggling with just day-to-day tasks. And the child is physically healthy but has an upset stomach, and when nothing else works, yeah, eventually just soothing your child to the best you can, but having those noise-cancelling headphones really. That's a great idea. That's a great idea. Yeah, that's a good idea. And she would just sit and read a book or watch memes on her Instagram and just hold her child while she cried because there wasn't really nothing.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Well, and I heard too that sometimes they just cry because they're going through a gross spurt and there is nothing wrong. Or teeth are coming in, but you don't know or feel them yet. Oh, yeah. Oh my goodness. What was the most surprising thing for you in motherhood? Um, that I could love a little human as much as I did.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

I had a dog that I was super attached to. And um I thought, you know, you know, you have a dog, Romeo, yeah. But um, the dog was so possessive of my new baby. And I I I found her a home, a very loving home with a family with no children, and I felt nothing. I was like, this is my baby. Yeah. I I never knew that I could have any kind of love like this. You know, it's a dog was it's a perspective. Uh little uh Yorky. A little yorky. I'm not saying you should get rid of your dog, but no, yeah, I'm hearing your dog that you love so much. Yes, I understand what you're saying. And it wasn't even a second thought because this human baby, uh, it just really opens your eyes to what actual love is that you would anything for this human. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's just mind-altering.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah, it's amazing. That's why I was like, my nipples are cracking and bleeding, but I'm still gonna try for you, you know. And I was like, I'm gonna do my best. But um, we'll see how that journey goes. But I like where you said, like, just stop taking the pressure off, like do the best that you can, you know, all of the things. Um, there was a few other things. Okay, what's one? We'll go around, um, and we'll uh we'll just say like, what's one piece of advice that every mom needs to hear? Um, I know you said trust your instincts, that was like a really big one. Um you said lots of grace, yeah. And you said just like let go, basically. What could you reiterate that?

SPEAKER_04 36:54

So it's trust your instincts, just like I said with breastfeeding, I was disappointed in myself for not making two more months, 24 months, but I was so miserable. Like I said, a human pacifier, your back hurts all the time because your baby will only soothe with you. Um you're just full-time uh breastfeeding at that point. Like we couldn't even get huge windows in between, it was just constant. Yeah, yeah. So letting go of the pressure of that, it's okay that I did 22 months. It's okay if someone did two weeks. Exactly. You did the best you could.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that. Um, so trust your instincts, don't compare yourself, give yourself grace.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Um and definitely don't compare yourself to social media. No, my mom's uh fill up like a three freezers, um, a breast milk that kind of.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

I remember you were videoing and sending me all your milk, and then you were cracking me up. You were cracking me up. There was like one video that you didn't you sent to me, and you said something about that. But go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, it was I think it was like a meme on Instagram. Yeah. My husband sent it to me because I had a hard time producing. Well, it's not even a hard time. I think every mother takes a little bit for their milk to drop down on their first one. And of course, he's like, you know, crushing on my breasts in the hospital. It's painful. He's like literally trying to physically milk me, and I had no milk to be milked. Um, but once it came in, I was just like, okay, like how much is this supposed to be? And especially because she wouldn't latch. I didn't know now I'm physically pouring her milk. So I'm like, how much do I pour? How much do I feed her? And I'm a doctor, right? But no one in med school, there's no course on motherhood.

SPEAKER_05 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

And the individuality of each infant. You know, they can give you a number all day long to hit. And, you know, my type A, I'm a type A doctor, I'm a type B mom, I've learned. Um, but um, you know, I try to follow the textbook and I and I let that go uh pretty quickly. But um the meme was it was a mom who had pumped, I think like 40 ounces total from both of us. And she was like, this is normal. We are not feeding freezers or pitchers. And I think that my husband sent that to me and and he made a good point. Like, we're you get I try to stock up because I'm going back to work. Yeah, and I'm worried that I'm not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Well, you got so excited when your milk came in and everything was flowing, and then and then because like we kind of went together because I wanted to freezer stuff. Yeah, and then our and then our supply, remember our both of our supplies went down, and then we felt bad about it because we didn't have the supply, and you were like, screw this, let's have a glass of wine. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I was getting stressed about it. My husband's like, You're not your body is not designed to free to feed a freezer or to feed a picture because my sister got me that picture that you put in your refrigerator. Yeah. Um, so once I just focused on like trying to feed her and then like really answering to her cues, my body eventually caught on. Yeah. Once I gave myself that grace and that patience. Yeah. Um, but really comparing yourself, I think we've reiterated that a lot. And it's so hard to do to not compare yourself. But I think that's like the number one thing. Because even on social media, your friends, your mother might try to be giving you advice on what she did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

And well, and the whole bounce back too, with like, you know, here's my before postpartum picture, and here's my after. And I'm like, not even close, not even close. Like, it's there's a lot of pressure. So yeah, definitely not comparing yourself to social media. I think is I think everyone's bounce back is different.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

It took me with bounce back with my daughter, I was even hate that word. I bounced back like nothing, so I expected that with my sons. You were 20. You were 20. I was 20, but then I was 25 when I delivered the second time, and I was like, You got this, you're gonna be, you know, back down. No, six years later, I'm like, why can't I lose the baby weight? Like what just happened? Yeah, but I think it's it's just different, and that it's at the end of the day, none of that matters. Your kids don't see that, they need your connection, they need you genuinely happy, they need you to pour from a cup that's not empty. Yeah, and none of it, none of it, the hair loss, the weight gain, postpartum acne, if that's what happens. Like, yeah, it's just it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Yeah, there's just so many layers and so many seasons, and I mean, and your kids, I we have we're just in the beginning stages of this. You guys are basically grown-ups.

unknown 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

So it's I'll be calling you for advice, both of you. We're gonna be me and Jane, we're gonna be calling you guys because you guys have been there.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

At the end of the day, what do I tell you every time you ask me advice? I'm like, it's your it's your decision, it's your choice.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Like, yeah, because I was like, can you please help me? Should I just like can I just come over there and you're gonna shoot me up with trazipatite and I can just start getting skinny again and you know, forget about it.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

That's where you're at.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

That's your that's your poke me, so I just can't breastfeed anymore. I can't make this decision, but it's so hard. And like I didn't like I'm not gonna say the word, not giving up. I'm not pivoting yet about myself. Good job. That and that's neuroplasticity. That's what just in time is about reprogramming your brain and thinking about things in a way in which works for you and is better for your mental health. So when it's time for me to pivot off of you know breastfeeding, I'll be able to do it. Yeah, because I think yeah, yeah. No idea where that was going. Woo!

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Well, just that quick medical plug here. So for neuroplasticity, we've they've actually done a lot of research into it for a long time. They said like brain cells, once you had them, you cannot make more of them. You know, they die on their own. If you've had any type of childhood where maybe you experimented with things or lived your life, whatever it is, all the brain cells you have are what you're given. That's not true. Um, we've actually found that you do regenerate neurons, which is the brain cell, and you can create more connections throughout life. But the number one way to do it is through cardiovascular activity. So running for 30 minutes, jog uh walking, elliptical, whatever it is to get your heart above 100 beats per minute. Um, because that's the only time that your body is actually like in all gears. You know, your brain is what is responsible for your breathing, your metabolism, your heartbeat, things like that. But then you're also thinking about your day. You're thinking about what you do later and how much further you have to run. Your body is literally at its max capacity. And so by doing exercise, not only increases like your cardiovascular capacity, but it actually regenerates your brain neuroplasticity and increases that. So it's a good reason to get out and walk with your baby, even if they can't see more than six.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

And nerves that fire together wire together. So, like when you're in that moment, because this Spenza, he talks about that nerves that fire together wire together. Um, when you're in that moment, I think it's that mental conversation that you're having with yourself while you're in that cardiovascular state, is probably shit's kiss. So that was like like the best combination.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah. So get those locks in, even if you don't feel like it.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Love that, you know. Yes, love that, love that, love that. I think I'm obsessed with her.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Um, I'm obsessed with her. I love her so much. Her daddy dressed her today. She she is his baby doll, she goes through about three outfits.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

a day oh this is her this is her afternoon outfit she's so cute that they only wear like one time basically yeah yes I'm learning the stretchy posh peanut and that one brand that you got from Dillard's I love but I know they have it they have that like um little nighty in like every size too like all the way up to like one T I think I was like oh my gosh I'm gonna rebuy that one I want those for myself right I know it's so cozy so so cozy she's doing good over there she's waiting a minute ago but she's good yeah because she she did not uh sleep last night um all right one of the things I want to leave our listeners with is if you're struggling so the whole point was just you know letting other women know like you're you're not alone and we all feel this way and I think the other thing too is like for me what really helped me is having a friend like that was going through it at the same time and then being able to like open up um because I'm not I don't know I don't like asking for help you know I'm like I can do it by myself I'm good I got this but there are so many times where I really did need help and you know I think leaning on your friends and your family and making sure you have that support system I think is the thing that kind of like held me together and I like for the first time um and it really hit me like at the baby shower like I really allowed people to like love on me and it was weird. It was so weird I was like this is so weird. I'm not used to doing this but like being able to like receive that was receive your village. Yeah yeah it was like I'm gonna cry right now so like every person that has like walked through this journey with me and has supported me like you've touched me in and such a deep way and that's kind of what we are here doing today and we hope that we touch other women so if you're struggling some of the resources um the national maternal mental health hotline is 1833 TLC Mama and that's 1833 852 6262 but I like that 1833 TLC Mama.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

That was cute.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Yep and then the postpartum support international helpline is 1-800-944-4773 and then there's always a suicide and crisis lifeline which is 988. Um thank you guys for being here and um if you guys are listening um please like subscribe uh share this with a friend share this with a mom that you know um maybe going through postpartum and uh if you'd like to find out more about just in time to save a life you can go to justintime to savealife.org um and like subscribe and donate thank you guys for being here and don't forget to give yourself some grace today yes and don't forget to give yourself some grace. All right if you're struggling remember how you think is how you feel. If your feelings feel heavy start by shifting the thought you're not stuck your brain can change so can your story. I'm Jessica G. This is the Justin Time podcast and I'll see you next time. Until then keep going. Never give up and remember the world is better with you in it whether you believe it or not. To help reach others please share this with your friends family and don't forget to like subscribe and donate