Living a Life by Design Instead of Autopilot

Welcome back to the ACT OUT podcast! In this episode, host Adam Tomlin sits down with psychologist and women’s coach Dr. Wendy O’Connor for a relatable and eye-opening conversation about burnout, fulfillment, motherhood, and the pressure so many women feel to “have it all together.” What starts as a discussion about psychology and coaching quickly becomes a deeper exploration of happiness, identity, and why success on paper doesn’t always translate into feeling fulfilled in real life.

Dr. Wendy shares how becoming a mother of three—including twins born just 15 months after her first daughter—completely shifted the way she viewed stress, balance, and personal fulfillment. Despite having a successful career, a loving family, and everything she thought she was “supposed” to want, she found herself asking a question many women quietly struggle with: “Is this really as good as it gets?” That experience ultimately led her into the world of positive psychology and coaching women through burnout, overwhelm, and the feeling of losing themselves while trying to keep up with everyone else’s expectations.

Adam and Dr. Wendy dive into the science of happiness, the danger of living life on autopilot, and how many people spend years simply checking boxes instead of intentionally building lives that genuinely excite them. Together, they unpack the mental load women often carry, why burnout can happen even in lives we’re grateful for, and how redefining success can completely change the way we experience everyday life.

The conversation also explores intentional living, emotional fulfillment, motherhood, relationships, and why so many people struggle to prioritize themselves without guilt. Dr. Wendy explains how small shifts in mindset, routines, and self-awareness can help people reconnect with joy instead of constantly operating in survival mode.

If you’ve ever felt burned out despite doing “all the right things,” struggled to balance ambition with fulfillment, or wondered why success doesn’t always feel satisfying, this episode offers a thoughtful and empowering perspective on creating a life that actually lights you up.

Learn more about Dr. Wendy O’Connor: https://www.drwendyoconnor.com/monthly-reflection-goal-setting-worksheet

Tune in every Thursday for episodes that inspire, challenge, and entertain. Whether you’re here for laughs, lived wisdom, or action steps, the ACT OUT podcast is your space to rethink growth, embrace self-awareness, and act out your passions.

Want to be a guest on the ACT OUT podcast? Send Adam Tomlin a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/17697025629686282ce7409dc

Other ways to follow and connect with the ACT OUT podcast:
Learn more at:https://www.theactoutpodcast.com/
Subscribe to the show on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@theACTOUTpodcast
Follow the show on Instagram: @‌actoutpodcast & TikTok: @‌actoutpodcast

Credits:
Mural: Tara E. @‌taradiiiise and @‌tarayakisauce

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to the Act Out Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Tomlin. Today's guest is psychologist and women's coach, Dr. Wendy O'Connor. Let's roll the tape. Hey, Dr. Wendy, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:11

I'm doing well. Thanks. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 0:13

I'm doing amazing. You and I had kind of uh talked a little bit before we uh started recording, and uh we're trying to go back and forth on whether it was gonna be like Wendy or uh Dr. Wendy. So I I'm probably gonna go back and forth halfway uh you know episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Do whatever you want. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Whenever I was in uh whenever I was in law school, I um as soon as I graduated, I was like, now theoretically. So that's a J D. Uh I I am a doctor, but at the same time, if I have people call me doctor and then like there's a medical emergency, I'm I'm gonna be like, hey, you you need to call my wife.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

You're like, no, don't call on me, I cannot resuscitate you.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

I in an off chance, if there is some type of emergency where you need a will draft drafted, I can help you out. But like if it's a medical emergency, not gonna be able to do anything for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

That's right. That's right. So funny, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

No, uh, so you are a uh uh you you're are you a psychologist or a or a coach?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Okay, yeah, how how do you describe yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, both. So I'm a psychologist first. I've been a psychologist for the last 16 years, and that's where I have more of a clinical background. So working with children, adolescents, adults with depression, anxiety, stress management, major life changes, things like that. And then I'm also a coach. So I coach women specifically, and I coach them on designing lives that light them up using the signs of happiness. So that's the place where I really get to play, and it's a very fun part of my world, uh, where women come in and just say, Why am I not more excited about my life? Why don't I feel very fulfilled? I'm doing all the right things, or I'm really successful, or I've jumped through all the hoops I was told to jump through. Why is this really as good as it gets? And then my work comes in and we just revamp certain parts and make some tweaks and get you living a life that excites you to wake up to.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Did you kind of always plan to uh to to kind of work with women um and like do this coaching or do like was it you were practicing uh you know psychology for a bit and then kind of like realized that there was a uh that there was a gap?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah, the latter. So I went through many years as a clinical psychologist working with men, women, boys, girls, everybody. And then I went through a period of burning out. So when I had my three daughters 15 months apart, I had my first daughter, then I had twins 15 months later. That's when things got a little wonky.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Energy felt a bit more, you know. I said to myself, is this as good as it gets? Like this is how it's supposed to feel. Like I love my babies, I love my life, I'm grateful for it. But there's still something missing. It still feels like I shouldn't be surviving these days. I should be feeling more fulfilled by these days. So that's when I dove into positive psychology and learned about there being a science of happiness and used those tools on myself and my life. I revamped my practices, I changed the way I structured my days. I started to live more intentionally and not just show up to every groundhog's day checking the boxes. And then I was like, this is exactly I'm not alone in this. There's no way I'm alone. Women across the board feel this way in different seasons of their life. This is what I meant to teach. And that's what sparked the coaching part of my life is really working with those women that feel that way. I'm doing all the right things. Why am I not more fulfilled? It doesn't make sense, it doesn't add up.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

Very much so. Uh hit on so many things. Uh the first, I cannot imagine. So I I have uh I have a son now. He's uh he's two and will be three in a couple of couple of weeks. We've talked about having another kid, and the jump from one kid to two seems like such a big leap that that is like scary in and of itself. So I can't even begin to imagine having one kid and going from one to three.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

That has to be a completely different like Well, uh let me tell you this, and I'm not sure if your wife's gonna be happy with my thoughts or not, but it was so much easier for us to go from one to three than zero to one.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Really?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

It was night and day. But it comes down to like so many variables. My first daughter was born in the winter. My twins were born in the spring. It's a different way of life in New England at the time. You're more isolated and and we didn't really know anybody where we were living. It was just all these circumstances at the time that made it more challenging. It was such an abrupt change to our marriage. And then we start to get our footing a little bit, and then boom, twins are on the way. We had a lot of nerves about it and a lot of conversations about it. How are we gonna do things differently this time? We don't want things to get worse or be a struggle with going from one to three, and everyone would assume one to three is going to be a nightmare. It wasn't, it was easier. What was harder was just that I didn't have an infinite amount of energy and time in my day, and so those hours of the day became more precious and more they needed to become more intentional and on purpose because now there is more people making up those hours of needing me and me wanting to be with them and all of that. So I will just say I have to state the facts. For us, it was so much easier.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Okay. Well, uh I don't I I don't know, I'm not gonna advocate for having twins, uh, Ralph, that or anything. Uh but we'll we'll see. Um I uh I can imagine that it may have been a little difficult for you for you know you've been like trained in psychology, uh it's your like livelihood, and then you kind of have this period where you're where you're struggling with your with your own uh kind of like mental health and uh framing. Can you kind of uh take us back into that time?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Sure. So after my first daughter, I went through a period of postpartum anxiety, and I will never forget this moment where shortly after she was born, I I sat on the couch with my husband and I said, I don't know if I like there's a I said I said it this way, like there's a better mom for her out there. Like I'm not doing this right, like I'm not there's a better mom for her. And he really was like, What? Like blown, like, what are you talking about? You are the best, you are the one. But in my postpartum anxiety mind, there's no way that I'm the one. And so that was a real setback from this experience that you expect as a mom that you're gonna have a baby, and it's like this blissful experience, and you're feeling so connected and you're feeling it's so right, and the puzzle pieces fit together, and maybe you have a hard time nursing, or maybe there's a couple of gassy issues, but fundamentally you believe that this feels right. Well, when you're going through something like anxiety postpartum, those things come into question and you suddenly just really doubt yourself. And that was the first time in my life that I really felt this huge sense of self-doubt was in motherhood of the things that we're as women supposed to be like the most natural at. So that was really challenging. Then we get pregnant with twins. Then there's this whole next life shift. And the anxiety, thankfully, had resolved. I worked through a lot of it. I did not have postpartum anxiety again with the twins, which I was nervous about. Was this gonna come back to me? Am I gonna wonder? I felt like I was meant to be a mom. Those thoughts were fleeting, thankfully. And then there was this period of, oh my gosh, I just can't keep saying yes to the life I used to live when the circumstance has changed. So specifically, it had to do with serving clients. So it was really about a lot of the people I worked with. There is a lot going on for their mental health with depression and anxiety. And it felt like that actually took more of a toll than it ever used to before children. Now children come into the mix, and now my capacity feels reduced over here. I can't just keep re rinsing and repeating my business method, expecting that it's going to feel the same because there's a cost on this side. And that's when I started to notice I'm coming home exhausted, or my husband's like, Did you even look at me today? And I was like, I forgot about you. You're totally right. Right? Here are the babies, they get my attention. Here's my patients and clients, they get my attention. You come home and you're trying to keep up with everything else. So that was a big eye-opener. And for me, the realization that mattered the most was that I need to choose differently. My values are not being highlighted in this season of my life. I've got to make a shift that aligns with what I value and what matters most to me today, not what mattered most to me five years ago, one year ago, ten years ago, or what I thought my life should be at the time.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

That's that's incredible. I can um to be able to kind of like identify like in the moment whenever you are when whenever you are kind of like at your lowest, and to be able to like to get out of that is is incredible. I I think that's one of one of the strongest things that people can do. How did you have you heard of uh positive psychology before? Or like how did you kind of start incorporating it into your life?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

So I knew that what was going on in my life was a case of truly surviving it and not thriving in it, and that's how I would describe it. So I literally used those words to research what what do we do? I have mastered helping patients go from having major mental health issues to a place of being functional, to a place of being on purpose in their lives, but the place of taking you from there to a place of thriving was a different category altogether. And to be honest, not the reason most people at the time would seek out a therapist. It wasn't to thrive, it was to overcome, it was to heal, it was to correct symptoms, overcome symptoms. And so for me, I was thinking, I need to research this because this is a different protocol. And of course, my my scientific mind was like, what's the protocol for going from surviving your life to thriving? And I was like, ah, yes. Living intentionally, living on purpose, celebrating what you're grateful for, and pursuing what's missing in your life. It was like this permission slip that I didn't realize I needed that suddenly took me to this place of, oh, there's so much more that we could be experiencing in our lives. I just didn't know how to get there. So that's when I dove deep into positive psychology and just trying to understand how do we thrive? How does a person thrive? What does that even mean?

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Why do you think that kind of the therapy model is more so about just kind of getting you out of that place of kind of survival instinct? Um and uh people even like whenever they have like goals for therapy, it's not I want to thrive. It's like I just need to get out of this depression.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, I think that's where the model really came from was this idea of there are many, many, many people that are struggling, and we need to serve these people that are struggling. So that's where we might go into treatment for depression. We might go into treatment for any mood or anxiety disorders, any mental health-related disorder. And we say, This is what I need. Like you have a wound, you go to the doctor. Well, now you have a mental wound, you go to the psychologist or the therapist. So that made sense for a long time. And what then happened was coaches started to come into the world and say, Well, what about living more optimally? If someone doesn't have a wound to fix, but has an opportunity to seize, how do we help people seize opportunities in their life versus just focusing on the pain or the problem or the wound? And so that became the next level of support. But I think a lot of people got stuck for a very long time and just having ideas about like what's legitimate, what's worthy of investing your time, energy, or money into. I'm not gonna just go hire some coach who says they're a coach to get me to optimize my life. I want someone who's trained, I want somebody who has education, I want somebody who's knows what they're doing that's gonna help get me out of something. Pain is a major motivator. So when you have people in pain, they want answers and solutions, they want to resolve the pain. They go see the therapist or the psychologist. And now we're in a situation where, as you can see on socials, there's coaches everywhere. Anyone can call themselves a coach. There's no training or certification required, but the purpose is more so future-oriented. Let's get you to a place where you're living optimally in whatever area it is that you desire.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Do you like kind of uh having a uh a foothold in uh in both places with the psychology and the and the coaching?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

It's the best. I I've my heart speaks to both sides because both are people who really benefit from support. So for me, I love both. My excitement, my zest, my passion is in the coaching side. Clinical has been fantastic. It's been a long part of my career and my history, the meaning in my life. It's made a difference in people's lives. I'm so grateful for that. I'm honored to have had that role. And where my future and my excitement and really like creativity comes to life is in the coaching side because it's really about how so much of life is possible at our fingertips, but just how unintentionally or how autopilot we've been living. Just the tiniest little tweak can be an incredible cascade for one person in one minute.

SPEAKER_04 14:27

I think it's very apropos that you like that you made a lie and a living by uh but by the psychology and the the clinical route, but you're you're you're also making a difference with the coaching route as well. It's it it seems like these two avenues like really fit you very well.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

It's funny because the other day I was listening to a podcast and I and I think the question posed was something like, if you weren't doing this, what would you do? And I had no answer because to me it was all a version of this. It's always going to be a version of this. So what what that the manifestation of that or the way that that's comes forward into the expression could be different over the next several years or decades. But to me, what else what else is there? Like this is it for me. So whether it's serving in this way, serving in that way, taking it from this angle, it's always comes down to being of service, but in this particular kind of like capacity, helping people live better. That's it. Just helping you live better, happier, more fulfilled lives.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

What do you think what do you think brought you into the psychology route to begin with? I know like 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

More. So I knew in seventh grade that I wanted to be a psychologist. Seventh grade. My 13-year-old daughter is in seventh grade right now. I cannot even imagine if she were to walk through the door today after school and say to me, I want to be XYZ. I know what I want to do. It's wild that I had this idea in seventh grade and I never swayed from it. And that came up because we had a psychology teacher who brought to us in one class the options for psychologists. If you're a psychologist, you could do this or this or this or this. And one of the options was a clinical psychologist where you help people feel better and you give advice, is the way it was described at the time. And I thought to myself, I do this every day for free to my friends. Like, I can't believe I would get paid for this. Like, are you kidding? This is something you can get paid to do. Something I felt like I just naturally did with people that I cared about in my world. I was like, I'm in, I'm done, sold. And then I never wavered from that. Why did that appeal to me? Not only, I think because it felt like a strength of mine, maybe that was already being lived into. I wouldn't call it a strength, but at the time it was like something that felt easy. But I also think that I cannot pretend that many of us psychologists and therapists have very interesting upbringings to process and to work through. And so the idea of having a deeper understanding of why we've lived the lives we have, things that we could name it and kind of categorize it, understand it better, understand ourselves better, is also, I think, a natural pull, like especially at that time of life when you're trying to figure yourself out. So I would be lying if I if I haven't looked back and reflected on why did I choose this? Why was that such a natural pull for me? There was definitely a side to it of understanding my life and trying to just make sense of it as as you will when you go through psychology education.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

Well, the very first thing that I wanted to be whenever I grew up was a professional wrestler. So thankfully, a life in spandex, I was like, uh, I don't I don't think I'm gonna I'm cut out for that. I should probably uh try something else.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

I love it. But you never know. You could have done it in Lovedon. Then like spandex are my jam. I never want to wear anything but spandex.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

I think it's better for everybody that I just stick behind the microphone, you know. I had uh I'd seen that you had uh that you had trained at uh trained at Stanford for a little bit. What was what did you uh do at Stanford?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

That's where I got my doctorate.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, so the Stanford created a consortium with a local um psychology school and they created a Psy D program. So your doctorate of clinical psychology. So that's what I did there. Got my doctorate.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Oh, wow. And and you got to be a cardinal too. I that's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Although being someone who doesn't care about me either, I could I know nothing and care less than I know about sports, so I'm like, sounds like a nice bird. I'm all for it. What what was your very first gig out of uh out of So right away I have so this is an interesting period of life. I'll just share this little story because there is likely someone it that listens and will be like, that is so wild. That's how I've lived too. There's a moment after I graduated where everyone starts asking you, so what are you gonna do now? Where are you gonna go? What's happening? Are you staying here? Are you moving? I did my internship and my postdoc two years in San Diego. Those that time was coming to an end. I'm starting to be asked, where are you going? What are you doing? And I thought, oh my gosh, that's right. Like this is the end of this chapter, but this is the beginning of everything I've been waiting for and working for. Where do I want to live? I had no idea. I literally sat in my apartment in San Diego and I thought, okay, so there's a month until I'm done. Where do I want to live? It was the most bizarre experience I could I could throw a pin and just choose on the map. Like, I'll just go there. So I try to be a little bit more, you know, thoughtful about my next choice. I could go back up to Northern California where Stanford was and live in San Francisco, where which were the best years. I could go to Florida, which is where my parents were living at the time, which I very quickly nixed. I could go back to Boston as a young city, which I lived in after undergrad for a year and just see what that life is like. I try to weigh pros and cons, but at the end of the day, it was all just gonna be a new experience. I randomly chose Boston. I said, let's go to Boston. I'm single. I'm gonna be just entering this world as a career-driven human. I'm gonna start my life from scratch. I might as well be in a city that feels vibrant and young and there's people to meet pretty easily. So that's where I dropped my pin. And I must, it must have been Labor Day weekend that I had driven cross country to move into my apartment in Beacon Hill in Boston. I did not know my roommate. I met her over the phone in an interview before I moved. I'd never met her before, and I was moving in with her. And the next day, I drove to an interview at a group practice that was hiring for a psychologist. And I landed that position right away. And I just started seeing patients pretty within a couple of weeks. And I will never forget either being fully licensed and graduated and all the things you need to check, and walking into my first office and my first patient, and just thinking, oh, do I know what I'm gonna say? How do I know how to help them? I have no idea what they're gonna say. And what a, oh my gosh. It was the most overwhelming moment of just like deer and headlights and hoping for the best and just hoping, do no harm, do no harm. And so that was the beginning. Start feels so wobbly no matter how much you know. It's never the knowing, it's the doing that really gets us to get our feet under us or build our confidence and mastery. And those first couple weeks, I remember coming home exhausted and just and just saying, I don't know, I hope I did good. I hope I helped. I hope I helped. I have no idea. And here I am, so I guess it's all right.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

One of my um excuse me, one of my very first jobs uh out of law school. Uh I was an attorney at this uh at this place that it was like a name. year old price uh type of deal and so people would play pay like a very like low monthly fee and I I was going into court like I would I I was I lived in Atlanta at the time I would be down in Savannah like four and a half hours one day and then the next day I'd be up in like North Georgia just all over the place and I remember my like very first hearing I had uh like stayed up pretty much like all night trying to memorize all these different things and uh I go in I call my client to the stand and then I realized I have no idea how to submit evidence to the court like I I don't know how to present it don't know how like it's gonna be able to like like hey judge will you please read this for me like I did and I mean I just went into pure panic mode at that point and so talk about like imposter syndrome like oh my god I I had a big time oh it's so stress that is so stressful to be in a moment where you can't escape it you can't shut it down you can't pause you just have to barrel through it is so stressful.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

I I have instead of like having nightmares of like uh like being it being in my underwear giving a speech or something I it's nightmares of that day like that is what I anytime I'm like oh like I have a cringe moment it's thinking about that I believe it well that's that's in the past never to happen again exactly so how long did it take you to kind of like feel more comfortable as you were uh becoming a uh a grown-up psychologist I'd say years I mean how long does it really take you to master something and even then there's constant changes you know who you see their context the variables in their lives the the symptoms they're experiencing there's so many nuances so while we like to have certain categories or certain ways to diagnose or certain things that make that piece a bit easier at the end of the day every day is a brand new day even if it's with the same people that you may see week to week. So it takes years it honestly does. And I I wouldn't say that to somebody who's just starting out and wondering how long it takes but in reflection I'd say yeah it probably does I'm still in mastery I'm still learning I'm still growing it's not that there's this one day you're like I got that I got it there's nothing left to learn no matter who walks through my door tomorrow we were we've got this buttoned up that's never going to be the case. We're always evolving they're always evolving. So yeah it's still ongoing.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

You know I think before I I had uh mistakenly assumed that there would be a moment where everything would just click and but hey I've got this all together. And so there would be times I remember I wrote a uh I wrote an appellate brief and I mean that thing was probably the most beautiful thing ever written. It could win a Nobel prize in literature or solid and I'm like I've got this down path I'm the greatest attorney ever and then the very next day like forgot to submit like a very very basic thing. And so I would go from feeling like I was the greatest attorney on the face of the earth to the worst attorney on the face of the earth pretty much just like in consecutive days. And I think it took me a really long time to differentiate or to separate my identity from like yeah that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

As you were speaking about that I was thinking that I haven't had that exact experience in my career side. So I haven't gone kind of qu that quickly from like actually I've never thought I'm the best and I've never thought I'm the worst. But I have thought that was a really good day or I was on fire today or we crushed it today. And then I've definitely had days I'm like that was off or I wonder what that was about or why did I think or say that but more so I feel that in parenting that that when you express it that way of like you can think you're the best and then the worst the fastest place in my life that that exists is parenting. There could be a moment that I'm like it's kumbaya we've never been best friends than in this moment. And the next minute I feel hated you know or criticized to like the core and you just think oh my God I'm the worst mother like why did I think that everything was good because a second ago it felt good but nope that is just not true. That's just a very fleeting experience. The real truth is I must be the worst and I just have some good moments. So that's that's a really very relatable sentiment for me it comes up more in parenting and which is probably why I've reflected recently as in the last couple of years in how much my work is consistently enjoyable. It's consistently fulfilling it's consistently the place I love spending time. And I've thought why is that why is there why are there some days that I really notice that but I don't notice that consistency as a mom and that's why because in motherhood your identity really it's it's so much harder to separate I'm a psychologist from I'm a woman versus I'm a mother I'm a woman they are really intertwined. So it's really difficult to not let those moments or even patterns feel like they mean something deeply about you. So for me it's much easier to be like this is so much harder. This is the hardest thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

That is that that's a really good point. I was going to ask you why you kind of thought it was that the children are able to kind of uh to bring that up and that that is a very good point that your your identity is is tied into it. And then there's also the fact that they're like little versions of you and uh nothing can uh point out uh some of the things that that you do that like a toddler.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

And they are part of you they are part of you they are truly extensions of you whereas my clients or patients or friends are you know aren't but your children literally are and so that just biologically is very different for us than being able to kind of separate from our work life or our work hat or role versus our personal role it definitely feels different for me anyway.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

So I can imagine that per or that the uh positive psychology really comes into uh into play in your role as a parent uh especially since it's so tied to tied to your identity uh can you kind of like speak a little bit about uh positive psychology and being a parent I wish I could sit here and say to you that I've mastered that and that my optimistic and realistic tools and skill set that I use in my workplace just flows out of my mouth to my children.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

It does not and there's numbers of reasons for that. One, they don't want to hear it. So it's not like they're like oh wise one please tell me how to live in line with my strengths and values oh mom please tell me how to be happier today. There's ways it kind of comes out and of course I jump at the opportunity but it's not a hat that I wear like seamlessly through these roles. I joke about this all the time but same with my husband if I say something it kind of goes in one ear out the other but you know when it doesn't is when he reads it on Reddit. When he reads it on Reddit then it sticks in such a way and then he'll come back and say did you hear about this? Did you know about that? And I'm dying inside I feel personally called out right now. I know I I'm I wouldn't be terribly surprised and it is hilarious. From the outside it's hilarious. When you're in it it's infuriating. So I'm not that person that that my girls would just be like oh my mom is a positive psychologist and she teaches us this and this I try to live by what I preach and what I teach as much as I can again easily detoured by triggers from my children but I try I'm just not wearing that hat all the time because mom hat just is way bigger and takes is way more consuming.

SPEAKER_04 30:27

I the thing about the mom hat and it's just it's something that like I was sort of aware of prior to becoming a parent but especially now that I'm a parent it is just so glaringly obvious. It feels like if I if I look at my son and give him a smile and a little pat on the cheek or something people want to give me like father of the millennia trophies. Oh my gosh. Like just oh my god that's so so amazing. Whereas my wife could do everything by the book and then there would be someone being like that's the wrong book. You're you're citing the wrong sources this is all wrong. And it's unreal how there are the differences and expectations. Yeah. Where uh you you said you just you you're saying that the mom hat was so large. I mean the mom hat is impossibly large. Like you have to be all things to all people at all time and it's it's it's a non-winnable thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

It is funny as I remember that too and my husband would take the girls if he ever took all three of my daughters and if you can imagine three children under two you can imagine them all like in a shopping cart at the grocery store how many women would stop him and be like you are the best dad I've ever seen ever. You must you are your wife is so lucky to have you and you're like yes absolutely true. Now I will say my story isn't maybe as typical like my husband is so involved with the girls he's so active in sharing the load we do that intentionally in our marriage so that no one's resentful. But so that may not be as typical as we would be speaking about but it is still really different. And so it's funny how the expectations are so different. Moms are just expected to keep up and do all the things and to not complain about it. And dads can swoop in and take kids to a grocery store and be the dad of the year. So I agree it's it is really funny though but my girlfriend just said it the other day I was visiting friends and she goes look at that dad he's such a good dad and I thought I didn't say it but my quick thought was when was the last time you pointed out a mom doing that saying that's such a good mom and you're a mom and you're not even pointing yourself out saying you're a good mom. It's like the dad just gets noticed more.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

Lucky dads very much so and uh even there there was um I was talking with uh with some with with a mom the other day and she was like you know thankfully I don't have to do everything. I just have to and then she started like listing the things that she had to do and in my mind I was like okay she's just listing everything. She's just not calling it everything. Right. So it it it's it's unreal that I think now that even as there is a bit of there is a bit of more of an understanding that hey like moms can't be super moms all things all people it's still very slow like being like seeped in and like it's uh it's something that I don't think can just be like naturally taught no it's funny too that we're talking about this because this has actually been a a part of my brand shift as of late has been really trying to name the thing for women to start attaching themselves to what that one thing is that really gives them permission to live better for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

And it does come down to this idea of what we say yes to and what we say no to. And women always fear that if they say no or they say yes to themselves that then they're selfish or they're bad moms or the dad's one or whatever it is, the dad's one. That's ridiculous. But this idea of knowing what to say no to so that you can protect yourself and live the life you want and knowing what to say yes to that's a skill does need to be taught which is where I come in is really helping women make that very distinct decision how to say yes to yourself and no to everything else that doesn't align with who you want to be that's not easily definable.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

You've you mentioned three things I heard time energy and peace. So is that kind of how you help focus your decision making is this going to be something that is worth my time worth my energy and kind of like worth uh what my peace so to speak? How would peace come into that?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah peace is really what I'm seeing more and more women are after. We have successful women who are jumping through the hoops, hitting the milestones, creating the conditioned definition of success in their lives, but they are completely abandoning themselves, completely disconnected from who they want to be, what makes them happy and ultimately all of the yeses that they give out into the world are robbing their peace contentment there isn't feeling this level of just kind of exhaling in their lives feeling like they can have a flowy day or a flowy life it's so rushed it's so behind it's so hurried. And this erodes our peace. And so it's not just like the idea of sitting and meditating peace. It's this undercurrent of living your life that feels like a peaceful existence. You may have goals you may have ambitions which are fantastic that doesn't have to be counter to protecting your peace but the pendulum swings so far and we men and women say yes to way too many things that don't align with the way we want to feel at the end of the day we just make the decisions that align with the outcome we think we want. So if you're following me still this idea that women if we're just speaking women but people are chasing success because that's what we're taught to do like get a job, be successful, get the house, get the family, do the thing. So we're like okay doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, not realizing our peace is is eroding because we're not doing it in the way that's truly us. We're just doing it in the way that we were told you have to do it by this order or this way. And then we wake up and we're like I'm not loving my life. I have all the things that I said I wanted but I'm frazzled. I'm anxious I am stressed out I can't relax I can't be present I can't even be present for a dinner conversation over the table with my family because I'm so in the cycle the hamster wheel of doing doing doing so protecting peace is really a big one now. It used to be more like how do you get more successful and how do you kind of rise to the same level that men are rising to in their careers and there's a shift it's like how do we just feel content and follow our hearts and be ambitious to the degree that we want to protecting peace comes from saying no much more than we do.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

What you touched on I it's very true. I've seen so many people in this stage in their lives where they have achieved all the external things that you you can you know I graduated from college they got the good job they got the promotion they got the house they got the they got the white picket fence so to speak yet they are you're right like just absolutely miserable and feeling like they they are on a hamster wheel. Where do you think the do you think the disconnect is between what we were told to do and how we feel after we've done all these things.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah so that's what I would call self-abandonment. You're following the track that's been laid out for you of you go through these moves to get to a successful destination but you have to separate from yourself along the way meaning you're doing this in a prescribed manner versus doing this in an intentional way that connects to who you are. When I say connects to who you are what I mean is your values what matters most to you your unique desires what you want actually want, not what they want for you or what's expected of you but what you desire and what your strengths are the natural things that like represent the best of you. So what happens is we separate from that foundation and maybe there wasn't even that foundation to begin with. That it may never have been laid yet but we follow the track because we're told that that's the way to the promised land and that just creates this divide that just keeps distancing from the foundation that should be me first connection with myself first then success on top of that ambition on top of that. But we don't have a base it's hollow we're just going through the motions of what it's supposed to look like to be happy or create success. It's not filled with a foundation that's sustainable. That's why burnout happens that's why people wake up unfulfilled that's why they live survival lives of checking the boxes they don't realize the foundation is missing. It's like creating it's like baking a pie with no filling you're like I baked the pie it looks good on the outside but like that tastes like something's missing.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Yeah it's the filling of your life it's the place that actually makes everything come together so I have been in therapy for three years now and primarily internal family systems therapy. For the first like six to nine months of it is basically the uh CNC version of therapy like the horse says nay but it was basically feelings and where they were in my body and like oh happiness means that like I feel it in my in my heart in my like in my like list. It's I mean like literally just very very basic identifications. But then even like after I'd got that base level was kind of like I had a moment where like what do I want to do with my life and I realized that every goal that I thought I had and every like plan didn't mean anything at all anymore. And it it kind of felt like almost like a sense of like nihilism for a little bit. Um and it and I I think it was very difficult to even be able to identify oh I actually like this I don't like this. Like it to even find preferences was very difficult.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yes I love that you're saying this and I'm so happy you're sharing this because this is where a lot of people get tripped up they think they should know I should know what makes me happy I should know my goals are the right ones for me. I should know that what I'm pursuing is mine. I should I should I should and those shoulds are so intimidating because then it means what have I been doing with my life? How have I been wasting my life or my time? How have I been making the wrong moves? Now I feel bad about myself or I feel ashamed. I don't want to admit that. And so I just keep doing the things I should be doing. So for you to even have the moment of wait a second these goals aren't even mine or they don't connect to what matters to me anymore or never did is such an eye-opening awakening moment that now all of a sudden you have the freedom to actually figure out what is for you. It doesn't have to be any of these things. These are basically arbitrary you can insert anything you want now because you gave yourself that permission to honestly face reality, be honest with yourself, radically honest whether it felt good or not I'm sure it was a mix of all the things and then be like I get to choose.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

That's exciting I get to choose now like the real me what is the most fulfilling part of your job as a coach is it being able to like work with people for them to find their like their whys and their what and their whys and what's or what what is it?

SPEAKER_01 42:36

It's this moment right now. So this moment we're having where I light up because I get so excited that you had a moment where suddenly the prescribed life was cracked and you acknowledged it and created for yourself the openness of anything's possible for me. That's the most exciting rewarding piece. Of course there's all the stories of how people change their lives and I get messages all the time sharing with me updates from past clients of like you'll never, you'll totally believe this. You're the only one who gets it I did this I created this I have this I just got one yesterday I never knew I'd get to have this life until you came into my world that's of course amazing but where I get the most excited is that moment right there when pe when you wake up and all of a sudden everything you thought was true and everything you've been following and everything kind of half asleep we've been living doesn't have to be just because it was it doesn't have to be the future just because it was your past and boom that's like what sets the dominoes off in the most incredible direction that I just like get so excited to witness what's next.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

How do you get a client to that spot?

SPEAKER_01 43:48

These conversations so when somebody comes into my my world and says you know they may say I know what I want and I can't get there. They may say I don't know what I want but I know this isn't it some version Of one of those two things. They also will often say, I'm so grateful for all that I have, but something's missing. Like, well, can we like work through that together? So when they say something like that, they already have a hunch. There's already a gap that they're aware of that they want to change or fill. So they come with some information, some self-awareness. That's where we begin. Then that exploration is different depending on the scenarios that I just mentioned. So it could mean that we're just exploring, like, let's do your strength test, let's do your values assessment, let's write, let's start to connect with desires and see which ones you've created, which ones you're you haven't. Let's see which values you're living by and which values are not being lived by in your life right now. So we'll talk about what does that mean? Just like you were saying the fundamentals of knowing emotions and where you might feel them in your body. This is the fundamental for the work that I would do with somebody is I want you to know what your core values are. And those are going to be how you make decisions. So you were asking, do you make decisions of things that protect time, energy, and peace? Yes, but not directly through that door. The door we take to get to that outcome, a protected life of peace and time abundance and energy abundance, is to make decisions that are aligned with your core values, your key strengths, and your desires. So that's always where we start the journey. And some people have different speeds because some people come in and say, I know exactly what I want. Just like, let's map it and we're ready to take action there. And some are like, I don't know what my preference is. I don't even know who I am because I've spent so many years detaching from that that I'm coming to you hoping you can kind of help me put myself back together. And so that's where we'll start if we need to start there.

SPEAKER_04 45:42

It seems like you have a very cool job where you can where it's you get to do so many different things and work with so many different people and like so many different aspects of their life.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

It is the coolest job on the planet. In fact, I went to my daughter's school a year ago now, maybe two, because they were inviting parents in to talk about their careers. And so I just went in and was going to talk about my career. But then I realized as I was starting to talk, as I was starting to introduce myself, that I had this wave of emotion come over me because I feel so beyond grateful that I get to have the coolest job in the world. And so that's what I started with. And I said to this group of fourth or fifth graders, okay, I have the coolest job in the world. What is it? And it's not very surprising that they did not guess my job. There were some dolphin trainers and really cool other jobs in the mix. But it truly does feel that way. It feels like to be a positive influence in somebody's life, but also not just because, you know, you are a positive person or because you're fun to be around, but because you actually have the most effective tool that someone can, and this is one of the things I get on the soapbox about because I get really upset sometimes with just all the marketing for products to make women happier and fit more beautiful and younger and this. And you're like, I just, if you would just listen to me, if you just listen to me, and we could talk about the actual tools that make a difference in your life and not this beauty product or this thing, where we would be as a society and where we would be as fulfilled humans, it would be vastly different than today. So it is the coolest job. And that's why I love coming on and having these conversations with folks like you is because then somebody gets to hear this and go, Oh, yeah, like maybe I don't need that new thing that I'm getting Instagram ads for. I just need to like learn what these simple but powerful tools are to feel happier today and tomorrow and sustainably.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

It's the freaking double standard of I mean, there's a lot of things that uh made me upset with what you said, but the the the double standardness, uh at one point, uh it may have been in North Carolina, I can't remember exactly, but it was a uh a male and a female anchor, and someone had written into the news station about uh something that the uh that the woman had worn. And uh the uh the male anchor was like, okay, and what he did was wore the exact same suit every time he did the news for the next I can't remember how many different months it was. Um not one single person called in, no one said a word. The only reason why people found out about it was because he said, Hey, for the last blah blah months, I have been wearing this exact same thing. No one said a dang word to me about it. And yeah, it I I don't want to get all the stop soapbox, but yes, it it gets me to.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

Um why do you wh why do you think you have a uh such a like a calling to help women?

SPEAKER_00 49:03

My first thought was I don't know, it just is who I am, but it is who I am.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

But I believe it's because this is also my work for my for me. Like this is me cheering for, supporting for, having understanding and empowering like the little girl me that didn't have the voice I wanted or needed cheering me on in the way I needed sometimes, or empowering me the way I needed sometimes. Like this was this is my work too. And so when it's interesting, it's like when you don't have something you really needed or wanted, well, this is kind of my ML. When I don't have something I really need or want, I create it, I make it happen, I just get it done. And so I feel like this is a way that that's being expressed. I didn't have something that I needed or wanted, so I became it. I created it for myself, and now I get to create it for others. And I believe, because I I truly feel like the work I put out into the world has impact, but the impact is like so much greater in my life that this is just my like mission for for little me and for like future you. It's like a joint mission.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

There's moments like something like that where you know the your your your inner child didn't get the love and support that it needed uh at a particular time. What fascinates me about that is that two different things can happen. From that moment, you could have gotten very cynical and basically tried to dedicate your life to ruining and destroying as much as possible. Or you can do what you did and say, I don't want anybody else to feel like this. What what can I do to help?

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Why do you think you chose to help?

SPEAKER_01 51:05

I think like I'd mentioned in seventh grade that the idea of being a psychologist was a very natural yes because of how I was already operating in dynamics of friendships. So I think that there's that piece of it. I also think a big piece of it was I was raised as an only child. And so one thing my parents always said, particularly my dad, you can do and you can be anything you want. You can do, you can be anything you want, anything you want. I don't care what you're gonna tell me, you can do it. You can be it, you can have it. So I think that also came into my mind of not everyone had that type of voice. So isn't it interesting? Like there's the both sides of it. There's the things you didn't get or have that you wanted growing up, and then there's the voices that positively impacted you that you did get. So that's both sides of the coin. So there's this voice in my mind of I can do anything, be anything, have anything that I want if I put my mind to it. But then I started realizing very quickly, especially in the world of psychology, that many people never got that voice. They never got that person telling them they could be anything, do anything. There was so many parents, and we don't mean to, but share with our children our perspectives based on our own mental limitations. And so our little ones start to come into the world operating from our limitations that become their beliefs of truth. And so when I would start to realize so many women in particular didn't get that voice, that person telling them they could be and do anything, have anything, and they had so many limitations in their mind. Again, that was a natural pull. But nope, no, no, no, no, no. We are not gonna live the next year, day, decade of our lives believing we're not good enough, believing we can't do it, believing something everyone else is better than me, believing we're unlovable. Nope, it's not happening. Like that this is the biggest waste of life ever. We're gonna cut and interrupt that pattern. We're gonna create a new rewired system, we're gonna operate from a very different standard, and that's final. And that's how I feel. And I try to like take it down a little bit because it's a little bit directive, but I'm like, nope, this is what we're doing, and people need it.

SPEAKER_04 53:19

I was about to say, I found that very inspiring. I I'm just I'm disappointed that you only uh coach one.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Everyone needs that voice, right? You don't you don't even realize so much how your head has really played some major tricks on you, and it's really been the thing that's probably both propelled you forward in great ways, but also held you back in all the worst ways. And if we could just get in there and tinker a little bit more deliberately, we could have a really different outward experience. And sometimes people need that cheerleader to remind them.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

That's kind of well, that is one of the biggest jobs I see uh for myself as a dad. I know that my my external voice, how I talk to myself now, is going to be Camden's internal voice whenever he's an adult. And it is very important to me that his internal voice is a little kinder than uh mine was.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Yeah, we work on that every day in our house too.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

Uh it's definitely a work in progress. I am not there yet. Uh Dr. Wendy, uh, how can people find you if they want to uh if they're if they're a woman and would like to utilize your services?

SPEAKER_01 54:28

If they are, um I'm often on Instagram the most, but most platforms I'm on at Dr. Wendy O'Connor. So feel free to come say hi, introduce yourself, ask me anything. Uh that's probably the best place, though. Instagram, Facebook at Dr. Wendy O'Connor.

unknown 54:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

Doctor, thank you so much. This is this has been a lot of fun. Thank you for acting out with me.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Thank you so much for having me and for your awesome questions. It was really fun to go through this journey with you.