Perimenopause, Self-Love, and Yoga Practice with Kat Smith

Perimenopause doesn’t just shift your hormones — it often shifts the questions you’re willing to ask about your life. In this episode, I sit down with yoga teacher, Enneagram teacher, and TEDx speaker Kat Smith for an honest conversation about midlife, motherhood, and the moment many women realize they’ve been holding everything together while quietly running on empty.

We talk about self-trust, desire, and how yoga and nervous system practices can support women through the emotional and physical changes of perimenopause. If you’re navigating midlife, feeling stretched thin, or craving a deeper connection with yourself, this conversation offers perspective, compassion, and practical insight.

Meet Kat Smith

Kat is an E-RYT 500 yoga teacher, certified Enneagram teacher, Co-host of the Enneagram+ Yoga podcast and TEDx speaker who helps people better understand themselves through the powerful combination of yoga and the Enneagram. What began as a simple search for a workout before a ski trip quickly turned into a lifelong passion for yoga and the inner transformation it creates. Today, Kat is known for her grounded, thoughtful teaching style and her ability to help people uncover their patterns, connect with their strengths, and live with more authenticity, balance, and self-awareness—both on and off the mat.

Find out more about her here:

https://www.theyogasmith.com

https://www.instagram.com/the_yoga_smith/Instagram

Meet Keri Marino 

Keri Marino is a Somatic Yoga Therapist and founder of The Nourished Woman, helping women move beyond overwhelm, anxiety, and self-doubt into embodied confidence and nervous system balance. Through women’s empowerment yoga, somatic healing, and inner work, she guides women to regulate their bodies, break old patterns, and reconnect with their strength, pleasure, and purpose. Her approach blends grounded spirituality with practical tools for real-life transformation.

Connect with her here:

https://www.kerimarino.com/ https://www.instagram.com/the_nourished_woman

https://youtube.com/@thenourishedwoman

🌿 Start Here  - Free Resources for Women Ready to Grow

Embodied Confidence Guide
For self-aware women who still feel insecure at times and want to trust yourself more. 
Get the guide here -> https://kerimarino.eo.page/embodied-confidence

Good at Meditation and Restorative Yoga Guide
For self-aware women who feel like you’re bad at meditation and are ready to feel successful. 

Get it here -> https://kerimarino.eo.page/meditationguide

Help Spread The Word

If you enjoyed this episode, share with a friend and leave a review on Apple Podcasts telling us what you love about this episode.

🕯 Want to Build a Consistent Yoga Practice?

 Daily Devotion is my 21-day online training that helps you build a personal yoga and meditation practice that sticks.In just 5–10 minutes a day, you’ll learn simple devotional practices that help you feel more confident, present and at home in your body. Click here for details. 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Welcome back to the Nourished Woman Podcast. I'm so excited to share today's guest with you. I know I say that every time, but y'all, I want you to know I put so much thought into the women that I bring on here to share with you. And today I'm getting to do a little blast from my past. I'm connecting with Kat Smith. We Kat Smith, gosh, excuse my tongue. We met at Yoga Landing as teachers at that facility in Chattanooga. And you are a really established seasoned yoga teacher. You've been at this a long time. You're an Enneagram teacher. You're a TEDx speaker. You have so much different gifts to offer and for us to explore. And also you're just this gym of a person. You're one of those people who has this grounded, there's like a positive energy for me when it comes to you. Like I've never been around you and felt like you were spewing negativity out into the world. And also I see a realness in you. And I know that many of my students at Yoga Landing, some of which I still actively work with, hey my Chattanooga ladies, they gravitated towards you too a lot of times. And so I'm really excited to see where our conversation goes. I'm so honored to have you on today, Kat.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Thank you so much. The honor is all mine. Thank you for giving me the opportunity and for trusting me. I hope I don't disappoint. I'm so excited to see you there.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

If you are yourself, we will have won at this conversation.

unknown 2:24

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Well, Kat, to start us off, I would love to know what is just so nourishing for you right now. It could be physically, mentally, emotionally, relationally, spiritually, energetically, just like what is feeling so good in your life right now?

SPEAKER_02 2:42

You know, I think the main thing I just turned 48 a few weeks ago. And for some reason, that particular birthday just marked a time where I am paying a lot of attention to myself. And not to sound cliche or sort of just hallmarky, but for some reason, this feels like such a good time to listen in and recognize what is it that I'm wanting and needing and not needing and kind of follow that direction. So it, you know, applies in my family and my parenting and my work and my relationships and but mainly just just things that resonate with me as a person. So I I feel like this is the time where I am sort of evolving and coming back to myself, if it makes sense, from being a mom and and and kind of just orbiting around that and being a wife and being a yoga teacher. I'm kind of coming back to just cat.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah. I'd be so curious to hear some of what you're learning about yourself in this season of your life that maybe feels the same or maybe feels different about you now.

Perimenopause And Learning To Rest

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Well, I am in full swing of pyramenopause. So it has been a hell of a ride, and I'm sure I'm not unique in saying that. You know, I think mainly it is just getting clear on things, you know, like in yoga, and I'm sure you've heard that when you've taken a class, and I kind of just been kind of talking the talking, knocking, not walking the walk on this particular one. But you know, when we say listen to yourself and you know, get clarity and exercise more care and compassion and allow yourself to say no if you need to, allow yourself to rest if you need to. And I would say all those things, and I would really encourage all of my students to do that. And I sort of just blew over it for myself. So this is the time when I'm really trying to walk the walk for myself, and it doesn't feel very comfortable at times, and it takes extra effort at times, and certain things are not very organic. I'm trying to not be judgmental. I am trying to not feel like I have to earn rest. I am trying to let myself be more emotional. I'm feeling emotional when I'm saying that and and being fine with that, and you know, reminding myself that it doesn't mean I am weak or not with it. And then I am really trying to just take care of myself because as we all know, you can get from an empty cup, and burnout is real, and I am trying to be aware of that and not just as a as an observer, but as an active participant. Yeah. So, you know, truly going inward as yoga teaches us and applying everything that we've taught for years, but kind of like, but I'm fine, you know, I don't need rest. I don't need more restorative, I don't, you know, I, you know, if I just work a little harder and just letting all this shit go finally.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

So it's it's just been really interesting. And I'm and I'm feeling more confident and comfortable doing all those things.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah. Yeah. Instead of just giving myself just like little bites here and there and then sustaining on the crumbs, and and now I'm just prioritizing what is it that cat wants and needs, and it feels all right. I'm rolling with it.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah. Well, I think that honestly, so many of us can relate to that story. And I feel like part of what we don't talk about culturally enough is how like motherhood very much is a journey of, like, as much as I hate to say it out loud, like a lot of us are just surviving. Like, and we're thriving with the surviving, like things are going well, but also there is this sort of disconnection that a lot of women are feeling. And I know a lot of times in those like midlife years, especially with perimenopause, and that like the transitions that are happening, like children are going off to college or children are becoming more independent in the world. It becomes a time when a woman can finally have that pause with herself and actually do some of that work of getting to know. Because I feel like earlier in life, it's just like it's like about growing up, and then it's about figuring out how to prove yourself as an adult and make the money. And then you're like partnered up and having babies, and then you know, and then you have this time. And for a lot of women, perimenopause is a time of monumental self-discovery and a lot of like important healing work happens. Like you talking about the tenderness of being with emotion. Like this is a time when a lot of women finally have the space or feel that they have the space or just have the free time to where it's like, oh shit, I gotta deal with it. Yeah, I can't just keep waiting.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And you know, motherhood is a hell of a journey, and I always empathize and sympathize to mothers who are in, I call it after the war zone, like you are elbows deep, and then there's no breaks, and you are in, you know, like Renee Brown says, you know, you're in the arena fighting, and it is a ongoing, never-stopping, physically exhausting, numbing kind of work. It can be as beautiful and rewarding and special it all is. It I feel like it it's messy, it's like all of it, but it is a survival. I, you know, I had to survive my my kids when they were little, and then I felt like I had to survive a teenager, and then I had to survive, you know, prepping for letting, you know, her go. And then I had to survive the letting go. But then the silver lining of it all has been like my relationship with mothering has changed. And me as a mother didn't have to be the one who was always just taking all the space in the room internally, and then somebody else had space and room to kind of come forward, and it was me. And I know it sounds weird, you know, like no split personality here, but we all wear a lot of hats. And like you said, I had time to consider me and pay attention to me, and that has been an unexpected gift of change in my motherhood, and also I think it's been an unexpected gift of pair menopause, yeah.

Motherhood Survival And Losing Desire

SPEAKER_00 10:35

You know, so I think that's such an important piece of the journey of like that recognition that you can go on a ride that you don't want to go on. Like, we can keep avoiding, we can keep not tending to our stress levels, we can keep not doing the emotional work, we can keep not letting our inner self take up space and emerge. And that comes at a cost ultimately, and it's just not a cost that like the women who listen to this podcast, we don't want to fucking pay that price, you know, like it's not worth it. And also, I think we have to see those opportunities because like if okay, so first off, if our kids are ever listening to this episode, we love you so much and you're so worth all of it. You're so worth all of it. It's all good. Really, like the best. And also, like, woof, does it make us kind of you know change who we are in order to be the mother that we believe that our kids need and also rise to those equations? Like it is, it is kind of like a chameleon, like that fawn mode. We get a lot of that in motherhood because we need to. Like our kids need us to be certain things, but also we have to recognize, I think, these are my words, this is my story. When we have an opportunity in the middle of motherhood or like at any point in the motherhood, whether it's perimenopause or just having some time to yourself, that that time to yourself is the space where you get to emerge and you get to take up room and you get to ask yourself, how do I like my eggs cooked? Like me, not like how do I want my kids, my kids want their eggs cooked, or my partner want like how do I, what do I want to do with this time? You know, like all those things that we think are so simple, but are actually these like important messages to self that we get to take up space.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

You know, I had a, you know, Oprah calls it aha moment. So my aha moment was I was having a conversation with a friend and she a little older than me and never had kids, and her joy in life is travel, and she was a travel agent for a while, and that just her passion. This is what she does. And I've always had so much envy because you know, I am stuck here with kids and school and parties and lunch making, and I, you know, I can if I get out on to dinner with my husband, that's like an oop-ty-doo, but I would never want, you know, and we were having a conversation and she said, Okay, so tomorrow you have an opportunity to go, like everything is taken care of. All the T's are crossed, all the I's are dotted. Where do you go? And I sat there blank, like all this envy, all this, oh, I wish I could, and you know, what would I do if I had that her life or her opportunities? And I was at Blake, and she said, you know what? You need a list five miles long of things where you want to go and what you want to do, and what you want to see, and what you want to experience on the ready, even if you're not in that spot in life, it's important because it's yours, and that means you're having a conversation with you and you're in tune with what it is that would ignite fire for you, or what would make you excited, and how you want your ex cooked, and all the things. But unfortunately, and I don't I don't think I'm unique in that. I so wanted this other side of motherhood, yet I had I was to the point of being in such a conveyor belt, I couldn't even tell you one place I wanted to go if I could, which is absolute craziness. So that was my moment, like, hmm, okay, well, let's let's sit down with you, and maybe that's a conversation that we have, you know, internally.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Wise friend of yours cheering you on for being available for that conversation, and also like that capacity to dream and desire and know yourself and to listen to that intuitive pull, like it's so important. I think so many women are hard on themselves. They're like, I want to like achieve all these things and like do all this stuff and make all these plans, and I want to like really listen to my intuition, but then they don't do this work of like just getting to know yourself and asking yourself, like, what do I want? Where would I go? What is my five-mile-long list of wants? Because they're important. And I feel like in the yoga philosophy, we see all this stuff about like desires being bad. And I really like as much as I love yoga, because I am all in, like I completely disagree. I think women need more room to express our desires and our men and non-binary folks too, but women are my crux of my work here. Yeah. And I hear you saying that this has been nourishing and it has also been an edge. Like it's been so nourishing for you to have this time in this space and to feel this return to self and to feel yourself leaning into emotion and desire and exploring like what do you want? And it's also not been the easiest thing to do. And I think we have a lot of assumptions about that as women, like, oh, it should be so simple for me to tune into myself. But really, there's a lot that we get to avoid or not deal with or not see when we're on the conveyor belt.

Guilt, Selfishness, And The Myth Of Later

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah. And, you know, and I don't want to limit that to just motherhood. I think as women in this age, we're conditioned to give to everything and everybody else. And, you know, I always envision it's the line of whether it's people or objects that we are, you know, every everything we need to give to. And ourselves at the very end of the line. And by the time that we get to ourselves, there's literally like, I have given it all. You you you're gonna need to wait till the next given day or given month or whatever. And then it's a perpetual cycle. And and also I think we are as women are conditioned, at least I have been conditioned that it is selfish to do it for yourself, which which produces guilt, which produces shame, which produces, you know, that's a bad thing, and like don't be bad. Go into the Enneagram language. But and and and I think it's exclusively women. I look at my husband and I love him to death, and he's the most kind-giving person. He, if you wake him up in the middle of the night and say, What is your five long, five mile long list? He would tell you like this. If if you were to say, you know what, this is the date, go. I am I am convinced he has his bag packed and uh stored underneath our bed, and he'll just whip that back back up and he'd be ready to go. Women, not so much. I think men are so much more comfortable and and uh just just free to think of themselves without feeling like it takes away from all the other things they have to give to. And unfortunately for women, I don't think it's the case. And I frankly, as much as a girl-powered girl, I am, this is something for us women to learn from men. Like, you know, you yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

It's that my husband, he's always been good about telling me things that he wants, and they're generally like small things. Like I would really like to, like, he's really into movies. And so he's like, I would really like to watch this movie, and it's kind of it's been like a practice for me, and he's been very good at mirroring back to me like, why don't you tell me some of what you want to do? Which is great. Like it is something that I've been learning from my husband for a very long time. And I I do see in myself a change of like when I became a mother again and again and again, right? Because you and I both have more than one child, there's there's less of that unless you're cultivating that. And so it's been this conscious choice. But I do see that same thing in my man of like, if I asked him, you know, things he wanted to do for himself, it'd be no problem. And me too now, but it's been a practice.

Yoga As Consistent Self Attention

SPEAKER_02 20:27

And you know, I think this is part of American culture where in in relation to say European culture, in America, we're conditioned, you know, you work hard for this retirement nirvana, whatever it may be. That's when you get everything you want, and because you worked for it. And I think we we do the same as women where, you know, well, not now but then, not now but then. And then you start thinking, well, when is then then? Like when is it coming when I am 95 years old, God willing, and I just can't do anything that I've been dreaming and waiting to do. And that is why, you know, I hear a lot of conversation with women who are asked, well, what message would you give your younger self? Or what advice would you give your younger self? And as hard as it is, if I were able to talk to myself 10 years ago and 20 years ago, I would say, I know you can't do what you really want to do fully now, but you should still try as much as you can, give to yourself. Because I think we get in this rut of, well, not now, but you know, but then I'll I'll I'll take care of me. But but but now I just can't and then then may never come, or then you may not have an opportunity to do things that you've been waiting for. So yeah, like women who are in the arena fighting and being elbows deep and are exhausted, I think it's important to still like drag the time, the opportunity to give to yourself as much or as little as you can, without, oh, you know, I'll do it when I'm when kids leave and when they get married or whatever it may be, or when I get this promotion, or when, you know, I make this move or when I save this money, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Sure. Absolutely. I think it's so important because there's always going to be different things. And I see that in my clients. Like if they're not, if they don't have kids, they might be like taking on a caretaker role, or they're taking on extra things at work, or like, you know, there's just always something to pull you towards it. And this it really is something that I feel like yoga is so good at. I often joke that it's just like banging us on the head with these reminders to like tune back in. And that's kind of a violent analogy. But also, like sometimes I think we need a kind of strong like knock on the noggin, just to be like, okay, actually, so many of us have tasted how good like a yoga practice makes us feel and and where that takes us into in terms of self. But then we add that to the list of weights. Yeah. Some of us. Yeah. Some of you that are listening are practicing all the time, right? And good on you. And for those of you that have included yoga in this list of desires, but not actually following through, I just want to speak to that for those women and say this is part of it because I'd love to hear from you how yoga has actually helped you. In this perimenopause journey, in this journey to really sink into those layers of self that you weren't able to access before? How's that been part of the support system for you?

SPEAKER_02 23:56

It's been vital. You know, the the reason why I have such an ongoing romance with my yoga practice because it has delivered what I needed during different times in my life and it delivered differently, but it always has delivered. And you know, I was thinking about it before this conversation. So one of the definitions that I have for love, well, two actually, is paying attention and being consistent. Like to me, that's love. Yeah. If if you're paying attention to whatever it is that you love, or you feel like you're being paid attention to, and it's consistent. It's not just today you have it, tomorrow you don't. And that ultimately what yoga has been for me. So an opportunity for me to pay it. And again, I'm like, I'm getting emotional saying this, which is wild, but it is an opportunity for me to have uh undivided attention for me from two, that it's consistently there. So I love, you know, I teach and I teach regular classes and I do some off-regular things like yoga teacher trainings and and things like that, workshops. But one of the things I do at least once a year is I teach a beginner series. So I teach a series for folks who have never done yoga before, who have been either intimidated or heard about it, or their loved ones or friends doing it, but they or they've tried it and had really bad experience with it. They're just unsure where to begin. Yeah. One message that I tell my students is if you uh hear nothing that I tell you but one thing that in yoga practice specifically, but I think in a lot of things in life, consistency is so much more effective than intensity. And what I mean by that is I would much rather do five minutes five days a week than 30 minutes once a week. So for folks who are intimidated to try yoga or don't know where to begin, or saying, I just don't have the time. And I know you offer that platform for your students and your clients where you don't have to leave your house and you don't have to have a special set of clothing, and you don't have to have a special shape to your special size or be certain age or gender or socioeconomical level. And you don't have to have a buttload of time on your hands. It literally can be five minutes, and that's that that could be a yoga practice, and then see where it goes. So uh to answer your simple question very long, roundabout way, it gives yoga has given me, and it's crazy, again, I feel emotional, an opportunity to pay attention to me and be able to do it consistently and lovingly and kindly. And it hasn't always been that way with yoga. I think because of how I felt it had to be, and now I'm kind of loosening the grip much more on it and letting it evolve into uh whatever is serving me. And if it is five minutes of movement, it is. If it's, you know, laying on my bolster for 30 minutes, that is my yoga practice, and I'm fine with that. And or if it's listening to chanting while I'm driving in my car, that is my yoga practice. That's all I have time for that particular day. So it has been the most flexible friend and companion that I have had in many years who has consistently been there and allowed me to pay attention. And I don't know why I'm crying here.

Why Intensity Misses The Point

SPEAKER_00 28:22

It's a love story. I mean, literally, you called it a romance. Like this is a love, this is what love feels like. And I I too, I feel the same way about my practice and about like I often describe it as like this hug. It's like anytime I need a hug, I can be held by my yoga practice. And it's this thing that like no, like no one, nothing depends on it. Like I know obviously we're yoga teachers and yoga therapists, like, so obviously, like people do come to us for it, but like a huge part of the yoga therapy model is that we're empowering the person to own it for themselves. And it's like because of that flexibility, it can be with us all the time. It doesn't need to live on a studio like with beautiful bamboo floors, you know, like it's it's in the car, it's when you're at in the dentist chair, it's like everywhere all the time. This love story just holding you.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

You're absolutely right. And you know, we're so reliant on external things to provide, to give to us, whether it is content or happiness or safety or security or whatever it is that recognition, whatever it is that we're we're searching. And the beauty of yoga, that it provides whatever it is that you're looking for, but internally. And I know if you're, you know, if any of your listeners are are there listening to our conversation, be like, hmm, first of all, sounds crazy. And secondly, must be nice for her to have this magic wand where you can just tap it internally and all this magical wisdom comes through. But all but what I want to say to those folks is give it a try and just and just see what it does. You know, it's not that we have this special recipe because we're yoga teachers, or you get some kind of notch in your belt if you practice for so many years and oh yeah, well, she's been doing it for so many years. No wonder. But really, no, it is whether you're a beginner, you're a master, just trying it and doing it would do the trick, so to speak. So that's that's why I think it's so great.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yes, and I do feel like uh there's one thing I want to speak to there because I do think not all trying it is the same. And I'm doing air quotes, I know this is audio, but it's like sometimes people try yoga and they try the hardest fucking yoga in the world. Like they're like, I'm gonna go do the hottest power class, I'm gonna exercise pain, you know, like let's bring it. And it's like you're not going to get the same result. Like one of the most popular studios in my area here in Greenville, they do three minute shivasanas. And it's like, that is not enough, honey, for you to feel what Kat and I are talking about. We are talking about like you need some time, you need some space to slow down, you need some room to get curious with the discomfort of slowing down, you need time to actually like soften into layers of your body that you don't even know you're holding stuff in. And so if you've tried yoga or not tried yoga or feel awkward about yoga, or some people tell me, like, oh, I just can't relax in yoga, like my mind's too busy. It's like, well, that's very cute because you clearly need it if that's your experience. And if you continue to try and practice, but particularly like not these very high-intensity formats, you can reach thresholds within that we're speaking about.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

You're absolutely right. You know, I took a workshop on restorative yoga, which is I have like my a secret crush on. I don't advertise it a lot, but I am like single white female of restorative yoga and obsessed. But the teacher Mayor Richards said, you know, we do this, even forget the heated power, vinyasa, mindful flow, whatever it is you want. And it is an arousing practice. And I'm not saying sexually, but you it's your system, yeah, sympathetic system is engaged, and then we say, okay, you drop in and shavasna for three minutes. Who in the world can like physiologically, it's not possible. So let's just say that. So you have got to give ample amount of time, and if you want to be bare minimal, the industry standard is five minutes of shravasana for 30 minutes of practice. So for all my power yogis, and it takes one to know one because that's how I started many moons ago. It is for an hour class, you need to lie still for 10 minutes, minimal. Much longer if you know you need you need more rest and relaxation. So, like let's get real about that. Yeah, it's what are we doing? What are we doing this for? It's like you're not gonna brush your teeth once a week and say, Well, I my my my my dental and then be wondering why your dental health is suffering, right?

What Makes Yoga Actually Therapeutic

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Like that's hormonal health, like you know, these practices, they're actually like zapping hormonal health, they're increasing cortisol, they're doing like all the things. Like, if we look into I'm a nerd for the science. So if we look into the yoga research, we see like inflammatory markers go down, but we're not talking about any kind of yoga, we're talking about the kind of yoga that gives you the time to actually downregulate.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah, absolutely. And let's not forget that the true yoga, if we're nerding out, all of the meat and potatoes, if you will, is happening internally where no one can see. I was teaching Saturday morning and I was telling my students, you know, we are here again to pay attention, to breathe, to listen to what's happening in your head. Apple bottom and tight abs is a bonus. And it is. That's listen, I love that as well, you know, feeling you know, stronger and leaner and flexible, it's all good and great. But do not make a mistake. The the practice of yoga targets internal, and that means what is happening to you physically, internally, mentally, internally, emotionally, internally. That is the goal of the practice. So it's all good and great if you want to go balls to the wall for 50 minutes in a hot class doing 150 billion chaturangas, but then please do remember if you don't incorporate the internal peace, ample internal peace, you just had a CrossFit workout, which I am not knocking as well, but let's just make sure what it is. That's not yoga.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Absolutely. I think this is such an important conversation because I talk so much about the gift of yoga. And I think that, like, for example, I meet a lot of physicians in my work who will refer a client to yoga, but then there's no qualifiers for what constitutes a therapeutic yoga recommendation. And then, and it just kind of like, you know, that like it grinds my gears because then we're just like flinging people out into, and I don't think it's it's not the physician's responsibility, it's our responsibility as the yoga industry to be clearly naming like what is what is this versus that? And like what will this give you versus that? Because if you just want to work out and you don't want to know your inner self, go here. And then also, like, I have been in hot power practices with I the I can't remember the man's name off the top of my head, but he created it. And his classes were very internal, and we were holding poses for long periods of time, and it was one of the hardest practices I've ever been in my life, but it was still yoga. Like this, we have this other thing that's just purely exercise that we call yoga now. And that's the thing that I really want to like just kind of make clear for our listeners that's what we're talking about. If it doesn't offer you that inner chance to tune in, if it doesn't give you that space to actually feel your internal landscape, then it's really not yoga anymore. And that's a good like line in the sand of like, oh, okay.

A Practice That Evolves With Age

SPEAKER_02 38:01

I know. And I think, you know, modern world, you know, yoga had a lot of evolution, evolution times and pieces, periods. But I think for yoga teachers of today, the biggest challenge is to I'm I'm trying to think of how to be clear to say it, but to not let their yoga teaching fall into almost this robotic AI world where it is, you know, Instagram and hot pants and standing upside down and this this completely wrong idea. You have to work on holding the truth. And I am not saying that you have to burn incense every day and wear shaggy clothes and not wear shoes and not have a mortgage and spend your entire day hugging a tree. No, so like let's not talk in these polarities, it's either this or that, it you know, but we have got to, I feel like yoga was a trend maybe 10 years ago and it was very popular. And I think now there's at least in my experience, I feel like we're competing with other different sort of variations of exercise. And I think we should be fine with that and focus as yoga teachers and focusing on still putting through the message of what the yoga is here for primarily, and primarily it is the journey to thyself through wife thyself and of story. Yeah, you know, so it grinds my gears too. I can get on that thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

I love it. I love having you on to talk about this with me, and then I'm also so fascinated. So I kind of want to put this in a frame so our listeners are hearing like my full seeing of you in this. And so it's entering perimenopause, going through this transition with your oldest going to college, your younger child is, you know, reaching stages of independence that are accessible for him. You're seeing your relationship with your body evolve and change. You're seeing the needs that you have change, the space that you have for yourself change, your yoga practice is changing, you're bringing in more restorative. There was a mindset shift around what you thought yoga needed to be versus what you're actually receiving now. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about that, like about that experience and just touch on any more of that personally? That feels so resonant for you to share. Sure.

Body Image, Wrinkles, And Real Choice

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Well, you know, I think it's silly to think that as yoga practitioners or practitioners of anything in life, that as we hopefully evolve and grow through our different stages of life, that our practices are now going to evolve and grow as well. So I think it's silly to think that as I am changing physiologically, mentally, emotionally, physically, that my practice is going to stay stagnant. And I will be the first one to say that I am not unique to so many practitioners who come to yoga for physical benefit. And that was it for me. It was I fell into it by sort of a like almost an accident, and it turned out to be the only thing that I really felt like I was physically good at after not being athletic at all all my life and accepting that just physical thing was not my thing, and it was fine, and it just wasn't line. And then finding that you know what I actually really enjoyed. I want to do it all the time and I'm good at it. But then if it stops there, it's like saying, well, then you stop evolving and growing and finding different facets of yourself. You you don't it you don't stay the same. So the yoga evolved. And I still love a physical practice, and I still love the feeling stronger as I practice and feeling flexible, but I also like the fact that I can bend over and pick up a piece of furniture without breaking my back. I also write, like like things like that. Right. And I also like the fact that I'm able to, when I am, you know, uh having my parent menopausal 3 a.m. wake-up calls every single night, that I'm able to focus on my breathing and help myself go back to sleep. I'm not saying it's panacea for every trouble in life, but I'm saying it is so much more than just stepping on your mat and doing sun salutation. I love the fact that I can, you know, uh sit quietly and let my thoughts kind of drift through. If I'm feeling like I have an invasive something that I just cannot get over roaming in my head. It's just all all the things that that if you're if you're open to experiencing all the facets of yoga, and that is why I think it is a mind-blowing practice because of how vastly generous it is to whatever need you may have, it it truly is one of the very few things that you could do in your really late, late age. And I think there's very few things in our life that we are fortunate enough to be able to say, you know, I did in my 20s and I'm 85 and I'm still, you know, busting a move. No, not a lot, I don't think. So that's why I I would rec recommend yoga to anybody. I am of a belief of old teachers saying, if you're able to breathe, you're able to practice yoga. It it rings true to me, and I intend to hang on to that until I can't hang on to it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah. Well, it just seems like there's never not a time that we can hang on to it as well, because there is so much flexibility in the practice. And I hear you saying that in your journey, there's been this evolution of starting and having a very physical mindset about it and then letting it become something that morphs and and touches into different areas of your life and becomes that thing that supports you at 3 a.m. when you're having your perimenopause wake-up call, or when you have that thought roaming in your head that you you're observing and you would like to shift around and not put your energy into. And I think these are such practical examples for us. These are these are the practices of returning to ourselves and returning to ourselves as we change, right? Because I have a lot of women in my practice, and you might be that woman listening, who are seeing wrinkles start to line around your eyes or like around your mouth, or you're seeing your belly soften, or you're seeing some changes happen in your body that you don't always love, right? Like the aging process is something that we culturally really have a lot of, I think we do a great disservice to aging people. And even we don't just like celebrate the wisdom of the crone like archetype in our culture. And I feel like, as women, like, for example, let me just tell a little story from a I lead a series called Embody, and it's a six week like transformational program for women where they really do this deep work of yoga and also like really learn to be at home in their body and to express through their body and to feel spiritually connected to their body. And we were talking about. For one woman she was sharing, and she has all these fears about aging because she feels like her belonging and her ability to get great job opportunities or to be liked is tied to her beauty. And she's she is a very beautiful woman. And that she's afraid of that changing. And it's like all these little things that I think we just don't, we don't maybe even acknowledge within ourselves because I think all of us can kind of identify with that on some level of like, oh, people like me because this, or will they like me if I have this? And I know that you've gone through some changes in your body that all of us get to go through in our own unique way, and that your yoga practice has been a place of return in that.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

You know, I want to be very honest with you. I think again, for women in comparison to men, I think men are societally judged on how they do things, and oftentimes women are judged on how they look while doing things. And so I think it's sort of a double standard that not only do we have to, you know, kick ass in everything that we do, but we also have to look good doing it. And that is a heavy crown to carry. And if we're being 100% honest, you know, it's it's kind of the same thing as, you know, I love to be very diligent with my finances, but let's just face, we're not taking all of our money with us when we go. Well, you're, you know, like we're all going to get wrinkles, we're all going to get gray hair. It's unavoidable. That being said, I think there is a difference between having it consume you and then being uh being flexible and kind to yourself as it's as it's happening to you without completely like neglecting things that are making you afraid. Example, what I'm trying to say is I still color my hair because I'm gray. And I will probably say it, and I don't think that makes me not embrace my age, you know, or I go twice a year and I get Botox because I have this number 11 between my eyebrows and I don't want to look angry, even if I'm not angry, and and I embrace it at the same time. I am not letting all of that consume me. And when I do see, you know, I was putting my little hair in a ponytail, and then I was looking in the mirror and looking the back of it, make sure that I didn't have any weird hairs in the back. And I saw all these wrinkles in the side of my face, and I was like, whoa, didn't know you girls were there. And then I'm like, Well, hell, I'm 48. I mean, you not 20 anymore. So those are the I think you just have got to be realistic, kind, compassionate. And if you feel very strong about certain things about your appearance, I think you should have freedom to take care of it. You know, if you need whatever it is, at the same time, I think as women, I I completely understand what your clients said about that fear, because there's so much value that is put on how we preserve ourselves as women in our society. And as much as you want to say, Oh, you know, all my wrinkles, they're just badges of how wise I am. But do I want all the wrinkles or do I want to like smooth out these two between my eyebrows and be honest about it and own it and not beat myself up about it?

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

So I think it's just there's a fine, there's this equanimity, there's this balance where you have to meet yourself and still love yourself where you are, and know that you can't take the time, you know, in reverse, and we all will grow old. And how can we do it, you know, women who are, you know, you see on TV, I'd love to be Meryl Strip when I am however old she is, where I am still beautiful, and but I don't look like I'm 40 years old when I'm not, you know?

SPEAKER_00 51:18

So absolutely. I feel like I'm so glad you shared that with us because that was brave. And I know so many of our listeners are just gonna be like, oh my gosh, yes, she's human too.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

And I feel like so much of it, ladies, is about the meaning that we make behind it. So if you want to go get Botox and that feels really aligned for you, then do it. But don't make the meaning that there's something wrong with you, or that like there's something to be ashamed of, or that like it's just a choice, it's an empowered choice that you can make to dye your hair. Or like I have this very funny bra, like I'm starting to get some chest wrinkles, and I have this very funny bra that's like a boob divider. And it's like I wear that thing every night. I don't give a shit. Like it's my boob divider bra. So that when I sleep, it's not like all my my boobs are pushed and wrinkling up my chest. And it's like, that's a fine choice for me to make because it's just a way that I choose to love myself, you know?

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah.

Healing Through Seeing Real Bodies

SPEAKER_00 52:17

That's a totally okay. It's okay. It's okay to struggle, like to see those wrinkles and be like, oh, girls, I didn't know you were there. But also like we can bring compassion and we can bring love and we cannot pretend that we don't live in a culture that isn't judging us based not only on what we do, but also on how we look while doing it. And then we can choose how we want to engage in that.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

And also recognizing that unfortunately, we live in a world whether you are watching TV or not, whether you're in social media or not, where there's so much that we're exposed to visually is just fake. It's not real. And yet it gives us this false mindset that this is the goal, this is a reality, and why can't we look like that or be like that? And that is where you have to feel check yourself and and and and recognize what's real and what's not, and what real woman female body looks like, and what real female hair looks like, or face, or lips, or jawline, or arms, or legs, your butt. And listen, do I love, you know, looking at my behind and being like, okay, I feel like it's a little rounder this month. Yes, I you know, or if I extend my arm, I was like, okay, things are not as flappy here. Keep doing the weight, yes, but I continuously remind myself that this is not what my value resides in.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

And it also is helpful for us women if we are surrounded by people who remind us of the same thing, whether it is your partner who still tells you you're beautiful, who has seen you with, you know, your retainer in your mouth and bags under your eyes and hair all over the place and no mascara on your naked eyelashes and still thinks you're beautiful, or it is your female friends, or if it's your children, or if it's your parents, or if it's whoever it is, I think for us women, it is so important to have that support system who tells us, yeah, you're not crazy. This is not real. This is a robot, this is not how human body looks like, or human face, and you're beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Yeah. Oh, that is so important. I went to a party. It was a naked lady paint party. And so it was incredible. And so I walk in and like the expectation is like you will walk in and be nude. And so we all walk in in our clothes and then we all get naked together. And it was like women in their 20s up to women in their like 70s. And it was just incredible because we're all just sitting around naked together, and you think like, oh, it's gonna be weird to go do this, like it's gonna feel weird to be naked, but you'd be surprised like how quickly it didn't matter. Like within probably 10 minutes, it nobody cared. Like we were just all being together, and then we were painting like boobies and vulvas and bellies, and it was just honestly, it was such a healing experience for me because there was nothing sexual about it. Like it was just women being in a room, being nude together. And it was a really neat experience.

Immigration And Beauty Standards From Russia

SPEAKER_02 55:54

I bet it was liberating.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

It was. And you're also just like, you know, all of us are just bodies. I think not that everybody has access to a naked paint party, because I've only been to one of those in my lifetime, but it like just being around other women in their bodies and seeing like, oh, her too. Like, oh, none of us are living up to these archetypes of what Instagram and AI and you know, all the Photoshop in the world. Like we're all just real bodies. And I think we can also find that in a yoga practice because you're seeing like all you're seeing all different kinds of bodies in there, hopefully. And it nor it like humanizes the experience. One thing I wanted to ask about was I know that you this is not like you we live in the US together, right? In different areas. You're in Chattanooga, I'm in Greenville, but you're not, you weren't born here. And so I'm curious about how like being an immigrant and like your home homeland, like how has that informed all of your experiences that you've talked about today? I'd love to hear your story, some.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

Oh, thank you. So yes, you're absolutely right. I was born and raised in Russia. I came to America in 1993. So this August would be 33 years since I've called this country home. Yeah. So all of my developmental years have been here, and I was fortunate enough to go to high school here in college and be a professional here and you know, get married, raise a family, and uh build a life. So this is home. But yes, culturally, it's you know, very different. I always tell young people, any person, frankly, but young people, if you have an opportunity to travel and go outside of the place where you were born and raised, there's no bigger gift for changing your perception, your life perception. That's seeing a different environment, culture, place, people, and and if possible, emerging yourself in that. It will give you such an incredible perspective on how people live elsewhere and you know what your life is like. So, yes, uh, you know, uh culturally it's it's it was very different growing up. I still to this day I'm 48 years old, I struggle with sort of self-image and body image. It has been a lifetime of work, and I think it's going to be to be that till the you know, my last dying breath in Russian culture. There's a huge emphasis on external appearance for women, and it sort of a non-negotiable it is expected for you know a woman to be always put together, always a certain size, always certainly dressed, always with nail and hair and face made. And it's it's again really heavy crown to carry. And unfortunately, it's you know, I've learned that even with all of that, oftentimes the most beautiful women felt very insecure and not beautiful and less than, and and then it became a hole that you could never fill and still continue to be miserable. And it was just such a tragedy, in my opinion. So growing up in America has very much helped with that, and that's just you know, kind of go back to your origin story. There's so many things that we carry with us, no matter how our circumstances change or how our lifestyle changes or place where we live, that there's a lot of things that we carry with us from childhood that is, you know, continue to have a need to be healed and cared for and acknowledged and kind of flipped constantly. You know, but but yes, I am a proud immigrant, I'm proud American. Uh, you know, this this has been my home for a long time, and it definitely is, you know, in today's political environment, oftentimes I don't really almost like broadcast that that I'm an immigrant because as of late it has felt very unsafe. After a while, it's felt concerning and now it feels unsafe. So it just it's just been a really weird time in my life in this country.

War, Dehumanization, And Feeling Unsafe

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Yeah, and it seems is it accurate to say that it it there's been like a shift where it didn't feel that way before?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

And now it does. Absolutely. In 33 years in this country, I have never felt scared in my life ever for being uh a Russian Russian individual who immigrated here. And and now I am. I have never hesitated to acknowledge my accent or you know, provide my full name, which is, you know, Cat Smith is an American version, of course, of my full name. Or, you know, or talk about my experience growing up in Russia or my home country culture and history, because it is very much still a part of me and always will be. And and now it's just those are the things I don't really talk about freely, or I talk about to very selective group of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Yeah. I hear the the importance of owning that part of you and that heritage and sharing it. And I mean, just even like there's nothing like food from where you're from, right? Like there's just something so good about being able to share, I imagine, like Russian cuisine or your love of your homeland, right? Because they're like, and I feel like Russia in particular has been a country with the Ukrainian war that like a lot of people have mixed feelings about in a whole new way. And I'm sure there's there's pain, there's tenderness. And then now we have the political landscape that's really attacking immigrants and not and really highlighting a lot of false truths about who immigrants are and their value in our country and their danger, which you know is just outlandish, if you ask me. And I'm sure it just it feels unsafe.

Coping Limits And Honest Struggle

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

It does feel unsafe. And you know, the friend whom I've mentioned, who is a travel agent and who left the travel, who told me about having a list of uh places where I want to go, she's Ukrainian, and we have been friends for nearly 30 years. And she lives in Kiev, and she just came. She she's also the US citizen, but she chose to go back home and be there during the war. And she just came for a visit, so we were able to spend some time together. And even with us knowing each other, I mean, she's part of the family. We've been close, close friends for decades. It is such a painful subject. The fact that I am Russian and she is Ukrainian and the atrocities that are happening. It is just it's it's a heartbreak, it's a heartbreak. And my heart goes out to you know, her and her people and their stories and just the horrors of war, active war zone. And uh that is uh why I think it's important to say that you can't generalize people, that you can't just write out nations for the faults of so-called leaders of those countries, that that you can't assume that uh the politics of a country translate to the general belief of its people. And in terms of what's happening in this country, I think that dehumanization of immigrants, of anybody is the biggest crime there is. Um I think it's important to remember that no matter your belief system, your political stance, everybody, all of us are human, and that means that everybody deserves to feel safe, to be respected, to be out of harm's way.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

Everybody, yeah, so and the fact that it's forgotten in this country right now, I think is yeah, and it seems like that's the part that really like if we boil it all down, that's the part that feels scary, yeah, right there. Like I think that's kind of like the bottom line.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

And I'm curious, like, how do you because I believe that everything that we're going through, we can face head on and meet with compassion and love and use it as a healing opportunity. And it's interesting that, like, as because you know, I would use the word trauma. I I think that experiences like this are traumatizing, especially for the immigrant community. And I'm not, I don't want to put that on you. So please like throw that in the trash if you're like, no, that doesn't land. But I'm curious, like, how do you stay open? And how do you use this as something for you to continue the practice of yoga and try to be a woman who's moving through the world in the middle of this active? Because it's not like this happened and then it's done, like this is happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Every time we pull up our news, every time we see some blip of some clip on the on the internet, it's right there.

unknown 1:06:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

How do you work with that? You know, I'm struggling.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

I'm struggling. I I wish I could tell you that I just lean in my breath and my practice, and then I hold my head high, and then I bravely, you know, move through my days, but I'm struggling. I I'm afraid, and I am, I feel lots of time unsafe, and oftentimes uh like there's not enough yoga. I'll be honest with you, too, to cure that and to help with that. So, you know, what I've tried to do is, and I am very privileged to live in, you know, first of all, to be a white woman, to be white. And now and now brown, very privileged, privileged to, you know, have a legal status in this country. I'm privileged to be upper middle class. Like there's so many privileges that I have. And even with that, I had to ask the studios I contract with to take the place of my birth out of my bio. It felt unsafe. You know, I don't really advertise, you know, I oftentimes when I taught, I would talk about my heritage and make jokes, make fun of myself because I mispronounced certain things and certain, you know, words, and now I don't. And I am, I don't like being alone with at home with my youngest, especially child, when my husband, for example, has to be out of town because I I'm afraid if something went wrong and you know what happened. So there's just to answer your your question, I'm struggling. You know, I I had to get off Facebook completely. In November of 24, I just felt like it wasn't good for my mental health. I have drastically limited my exposure to any other forms of social media and news. And, you know, in in in one sense of the word, I feel like, you know, it's probably somewhat putting my head in the sand. But in another, you know, on the other side, like I couldn't.