Forgiveness Isn't What You Think

Forgiveness isn’t what most people think and that misunderstanding may be the very thing keeping you stuck. When we don't forgive, we carry the past in our bodies. It shows up as resentment, tension, fear, depression, emotional triggers, and a quiet heaviness that never fully leaves. We think we are protecting ourselves by holding on or keeping them accountable for their actions, but in reality we are tying ourselves to the very person that hurt us. Non forgiveness drains your energy, clouds your peace, and keeps you emotionally entangled with what is already over.

In this talk, you will learn what forgiveness actually means and what it does not. This is not about excusing or condoning behavior or pretending it did not hurt. (I can promise you that!) 

When you truly forgive, you release and expand. You rise. You free your nervous system, your mind, and your future! If you are ready to stop carrying excess emotional weight and finally feel lighter, clearer, and sovereign again, this conversation is for you. 

So grab a pad of paper and pen and a delicious beverage and snuggle up to a talk that could change your life. ✨

For FREE Resources, 📖 Book Link, 📝 Quizzes, 👚 Self-Love Merch Shop, 🗣️ 1:1 Mentoring and more: https://www.linktr.ee/kristenbrownauthor

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If this episode spoke to your heart, it would mean so much if you left a five star rating and a loving review. Your support helps this message reach other beautiful souls who are ready to heal, grow, and remember who they truly are.

Much Love,

KB

Transcript

I commend you

Kristen 0:00

Before we jump into this topic, I want to commend you for being here because this can be a very charged topic for many people. I'm very proud of you. I hope that you're very proud of you because this says a lot about where you're at on your healing journey and you're really ready to release the baggage from the past, heal old wounds in order to attract and create the life and relationships of your dreams. Many of us, many of us, if not every single one of us walking this planet has suffered through some deplorable and heinous situations. We've been on the receiving end of some behaviors that sometimes just left a deep wound. They were inexcusable. They might have even been confusing, where we've just sat there and looked at these people like, how could you? We hear that so much. How could you? And if you've thought that or felt that, then this talk is for you. Because I'm all about forgiveness. Forgiveness is a huge part, a massive part of my healing journey. It's something that I started working on 15, 16 years ago when I vowed to remain single and celibate and to figure out why I kept repeating the same relationship patterns in my life. And I started to research things that came up for me organically. And one of those things was forgiveness. Interestingly enough, I had written a paper on forgiveness in college in my early 20s. I pulled that back out again and do because there were some things that had happened prior to my early 20s that I was holding on to as well. And so when that class, I think it was interpersonal communications, and we had to choose a topic, she had this whole list of things that we could choose from. And I was putting my finger down the list and I was like, ooh, forgiveness. Because I knew that I was carrying some extra emotional baggage and weight and just so much pain from things that were done to me below my 20s. So when I say that a lot of us have gone through some things in our life that have really left some wounds and scars, this is my point of validation for you because what we're diving into today is really about forgiveness. It's about the releasing of these wounds. But I want to first start by saying it was real, it was true, it hurt, it sucked, it was absolutely uncool. And in nobody's universe or world would it ever be okay. Just so you know, we're not here to condone. And that's the number one point that we must understand when it comes to forgiving, is that there's no condoning involved here. This at no point on this forgiveness journey are we saying, yeah, it's okay that you did that. No. Nor does it mean that you want this person back in your life if they are out of your life so far. It could even mean, if they're in your life right now, that you could let them go. There's no line that crosses over ever in the realm, in the energy of forgiveness that says, it is okay, and I need to have you in my life. So I want you all to start off with that truth first. Because many times we get wrapped up in that, somehow, unconsciously, we think that, we believe that. And so that stops us from the true path of forgiving because we're like, nope, if that's what it means, then that's a hell no. And I don't blame you. Because there are still things in my past, things that my perpetrators, is what I call them, have done to me that will never be okay. Ever. Some things were forgivable, move on, stay in the relationship. People make mistakes, people are healing and growing type situations. And some things were just hardcore gavel slamming down, hell no, one and done, that is not okay. Don't even look in my direction again or breathe the same air as me. And I'm saying this because I want you to know I feel you, I understand this. All of our stories might be different. And I do know that when it comes to forgiveness, that the results are always the same for all of us. And it is one of the most powerful things we can do to reposition ourselves in a place of power, in the driver's seat of our lives, is by cutting those toxic ties of the past. Unforgiveness is a form of emotional attachment to pain. It's like we are staying connected to this thing. So unforgiveness keeps us energetically tied to that person or that moment or that event. I can tell you from my experience, when I learned that truth and I felt the truth, and I was like, well, that's true. I get that on a deep, deep level. I didn't want to be attached to this person. I wanted them gone. I wanted them out of my life, out of my energy, out of my feelings, out of my thoughts. I didn't want them taking up any more space in my life than they had already taken from me. It's important to understand that our forgiveness is never about the other person. It's not about letting them off the hook. It's not about making them feel better. None of that matters. And some of the things that people have done to us required some type of judicial punishment where they needed to serve some time or they needed to be convicted or what have you. Again, it doesn't mean we're taking away from the consequences of their behavior. I want you guys to really sit in that. There can be natural consequences to people's behavior, and we can still forgive them. Again, it's not about condoning. A quote from my book, From Doormat to Sweet Empowerment, is our lack of forgiveness for another does not impose any punishment on the perpetrator. It only punishes ourselves. That's a quote that I wrote in my very first book, From Doormat to Sweet Empowerment. Please know that forgiveness cuts the cord between us and our perpetrator. It cuts the energetic, toxic cord that is holding us to the perpetrator. I don't know about you, but I don't want to stay connected to that person even energetically or to the thing that they did. The idea that staying still connected to somebody that could perform such a heinous act or could be completely uncaring or unconsiderate, I didn't want anything, any part of it. Now, as time went on, with some of those actions, I started to understand them on a level that I hadn't previously or when they were performed, for lack of a better word. And as time went on, I started to see things a little bit differently. I started to understand the walking wounded. I understood how unconscious we are. I understand how a lot of people were just trying to get their needs met. I understood things on a really, really deep level. And guess what? I still didn't want them back in my life. I still didn't. Even though my forgiveness deepened, my understanding deepened. And that's something that I want to share too is way back in the day when I was really active on my Facebook business page, I'm really not over there much anymore on social media at all. But when I was really active over there and I was writing about forgiveness, somebody said they replaced the word forgiveness with understanding. And I got that because I started to see things on a different level, a different view, a different perception. And that allowed me to release a lot of it as well. Again, we understand from a spiritual level. We're not understanding from, hey, it's okay that you did that. Oh, I understand why you stole $5,000 from me or did. I don't even want to list things, you guys, because some of the things are so heinous that people did. I don't even want to start listing things and start triggering people. Slept with my boyfriend or whatever people did to us. Okay, even worse. Even worse. Mm-mm. So forgiveness is not about pretending that this thing didn't hurt, or that it didn't suck, or that it didn't make you angry, or that it didn't change your life. There's no pretending involved in this. But it's about finally coming to the place where you're going to choose peace, where you want better for yourself. It's about saying, I acknowledge what happened, I honor my pain, and I am choosing freedom. I acknowledge what happened, I honor my pain, and I am going to choose emotional freedom. That's personal power. It's like cleaning out poison from a wound so that it can finally close. There's a quote that's attributed to Nelson Mandela, but it's not clear whether he wrote it or not. I still attribute it to him because I imagine that this is something, an experience that he had, and probably something that he did come come up with. And this is unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. Boy, when I read that back in the day, I was like, well, ain't that the truth? We're just holding on to this festering, nasty feelings and anger and all of those things. And when you when we hold on to those things, our body keeps replaying the injury as if it's still happening. But not only that, it can affect our genetics. Okay, there's something called epigenetics, and the emotions that we carry can upload particular genes and can create disease in the body. So please understand that this is not only on an emotional level, on a mental level, this is on a body and spiritual level. This is freeing yourself on all levels because when we stay in that, we're still looping in that on a biological level, we're still in survival mode. So even if the situation is long over, our system hasn't moved on. Forgiveness is what tells our body that that danger is over, that situation is over, I don't have to carry that anymore. And I can recenter, I can get present, and I can live in the now. And that is why forgiveness feels so light afterwards. I almost titled this forgiving the unforgivable or forgiving the inexcusable. Because I really want you to know that when something feels truly, truly unforgivable, it's usually because the wound went deeper than the event. It didn't just hurt, but it broke trust and safety or identity or love on some level. So here's one more truth that I want you to sink into before I bring up my first guest. We don't forgive by forcing peace or by condoning. We forgive by processing the pain. Real forgiveness happens in layers, not by leaps. This is about layers. Because there was times when I thought I had forgiven somebody and I'd moved on, and then it comes up again, and I was like, wow, I thought that was gone. No, it wasn't gone. I was just ready for the next level. Remember, when we start to heal, when we start to forgive, we're not just releasing the past, we're not just cutting toxic uh toxic ties, but we're opening space for joy, clarity, healthy relationships, emotional freedom, all kinds of things. So I'm going to bring up my first two guests, and then we're gonna talk about the process of forgiveness and emotional release. So I hope you guys stick around for that. I have a five-step process for that. Welcome, Karim. Thank you for joining me.

Karim 12:06

Baby, uh good to talk to you. This is a big one. I've been thinking on my way up to the stage about how I can say this um without with enough detail so it's not gonna be you know triggering or anything. But let me lay a little bit of groundwork, and this may be warranting for something you and I talk about in another talk later and more in depth. Okay. The person that taught me the most about forgiveness was a um 17-year-old girl that in my past life I rescued. She was 14 at the time. I was the first one through the door with my crew, and um we got her out, and uh she grew up and we stayed in touch and she excelled and she's healthy and good. I haven't been in touch in a long time, but you know, three or four years after we were having a conversation, and I'm seethingly mad still. And I, you know, I didn't do enough to to to feel revindicated for her with that individual because he was there. So it's not done. I didn't, yeah. So I'm trying to keep this.

Kristen 13:23

You wanted to kick some booty as I as I'm thinking as I'm reading here, but you couldn't.

Karim 13:28

I no, I got enough in, but my team pulled me off. And um long story short, and I want to keep this within the constraints of the talk. She said something years later that she's like, you have to let that go. She goes, I have. I have, I you know, and and and it hit me like a ton of bricks because I'm you know, and I and we dug into it more, and it was me. The reason was that I was mad at myself. I didn't get there sooner, I didn't, you know, find it all these things. There's and the clues were there, like idiot, had you not, and she was the one to say, no, no, I'm free now, you're not. Like she said these words to me, which were very, very reminiscent of what you're saying. And and you know, she's like, Yeah, you know, for for years I envisioned you finishing him off and all these things because she was there witnessing it. It was terrible, it was a terrible situation. Sure, it was an unborn one, right? It was not good. So, yeah, that was a really weird awakening for me because it wasn't a it wasn't a de facto standard thing where it's like, oh, I had someone wrong wrong me per se, and I had to, you know, find these ways through it, which I have. Those are stories, certainly, and I think other people that are gonna jump on will talk about those things, and they're really important. But this was weird because it was I I haven't yet. I mean, I'm gonna be blunt. I, you know, as much as what she said hit me, like, yeah, she's right. I still have not found a way to do that. I'm still fighting with that. Where all these years later, I'm like, I can't, I can't pull that feeling off, you know, and it's hard. I mean, and everyone that I ever really talked to about this sort of strangely reinforces that with me, where they're like, yeah, you know, you should have really finished, you know, and it's like, oh, I need the other way around, you know. I'm trying to find, you know, this type of conversation, which is this has captured me. This, you know, the individual's not feeling any worse the more angry I am about it and the more furious I am. I'm not doing any disservice to that individual. There's no benefit in my toxicity that's stuck in there. As righteous as it might be, which is a really key point here, you know, it it's it's damaging, right? It actually was one of the main moments that kind of pulled me out of that world. I just like my team's like, you can't go in now. Next time you go in, you're gonna, we're not gonna be able to pull you off, and it's not gonna be good. While we're all gonna be rooting for you to do that, we all knew that that was not the ending final point in this. And Chris, we haven't met in person, but you know, I'm 6'1 and I'm a pretty big big guy. Like, I mean, it was gonna get it would have been easy for me. And it was just one of those things where, and then she saw that as such a valiant thing at the time, and then she worries, she's like, You've you know, you're now damaged from it almost more than me, is the word she started to say. Super interesting stuff, yeah. So it's it's for another conversation. But I thought it's usually I have pretty cool solutionary ideas around things. This is one that's really hard. That is a hard one. So, but thanks for bringing this up. It's really good.

Guest Two: Kelly

Guest Three: Truth

Kristen 16:34

Oh my gosh, yes, thanks, Kareem. Thank you so much for joining me. And go ahead and and send me a text about how you know a topic that we can expand on this or how that would look or what have you. Because Kareem and I have like three talks in the queue. We do, we we keep having these back channel conversations, and we're like, yeah, we need to talk about this and talk about that. And then it doesn't come to pass yet, it will, but you know, just a lot going on in both of our lives and trying to get, you know, get on the that timeline. It sometimes can be a little challenging. But thank you so much for that. I really, really appreciate that share. And that's a prime example, you guys, of forgiveness and process. He knows he needs to let that go, and he knows that this is not doing him any good, but yet it's still there. And yeah, interesting how this is this is another thing is that how we may hold on to unforgiveness for something done to somebody else. Unforgiveness by proxy. I don't know how to explain that, right? Where we're like, uh-uh, I what they did to you, and I've done this because I'm I am a um a super protector. I'm a super protector, I'm a belly bully buster. I don't, you wouldn't think so. There's a lot of power packed in my little body. We were talking about that in the among the family the other day. We're talking about bullying and who was bullied when they were younger and this and that. And my son-in-law asked me if I was bullied, and I, and my kids and me all shook my head no. And then he's like, why? I was like, I don't know. I said I think it had to be raised with brothers. I was, I didn't put up with that stuff back in the day. But at any rate, when injustice happens, all right, it's oh man. So I can hold on to that as well for somebody else, even if it's not done to me. And that's something that I I've had to work on too, because I didn't think that was a thing. I was like, yeah, you know, I can be mad at that person. That's not my thing, but it's still it's still something that I was holding on to and was affecting me. Kelly, welcome up. Thank you for joining me. So glad that you're here today.

Kelly 18:32

I I I was just wondering. Sorry about the dog. I was just wondering. Um, what was that quote that you said that may have possibly been from Nelson Mandela?

Kristen 18:45

Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. Okay, yeah. I can relate to that.

Kelly 18:55

Like past uh six months or so I've been trying, but it's not it's not getting anywhere. I've almost given up on the person.

Kristen 19:09

On forgiving them? Or what do you okay?

Kelly 19:13

Yes.

Kristen 19:14

Yeah. Don't give up, Kelly.

Kelly 19:17

It's like I I don't know if I want to still be in the situation that I'm in anymore because I don't know if I can get past it.

Kristen 19:26

Oh, okay. Well, so you're still in a current relationship with this person. Okay, I thought you were giving up on forgiveness. No. So here's the thing. We're talking about two different camps here. Forgiveness is one camp. I came in at in the like ending of your talk. Oh, okay, okay. Thank you, Kelly. Um, definitely go back and listen to this from the beginning because it's gonna make things very, very clear for you. But there's two different, there's two different camps. Okay, it's like salt and pepper. Forgiveness is one thing, and the other thing is do I want to stay in relationship with this person? Okay, because it they don't have to overlap. I mentioned this earlier. There's people that I have forgiven and I stayed in relationship with because whatever the wrongdoing was to me was digestible, it was understandable, I get it. It was just, you know, them being human or what have you. But then there were things, Kelly, where I was like, no, heck no. Like I can't, I can forgive you. I can let this go, let go of the toxic tie, but I don't want to be in your space anymore. Like I'm done with this. This was a line for me. And the only person who knows that space, that that line, Kelly, is us. We're the only ones. Yeah, yeah, I understand that. It was a pleasure speaking with you, Kelly. Truth, welcome up. Hey, Kristen.

unknown 20:43

Hi.

Truth 20:43

As usual, I love your topic. Um, it's a one that I've been, you know, working on a lot in this past year. And what you said about the layers, I completely agree with and relate to. Um, it's definitely like forgiveness is one of those things where if the experience was very difficult or if it was layered, or if it lasted for a long time, then it's kind of like at this point, I just kind of expect for it to come back up and for me to have to work through it again with like the version of me that I'm at now. So I think that that was like definitely a very, very like hit close to home point for me. And the other thing, like a place that I really struggled with forgiveness at the beginning, which you've touched on, is I thought that forgiveness also had to include repair. And they're two. And I think that's why it was so hard for me for so long to forgive people, because I thought like, if I forgave them, then that meant I had to be okay with them. And that meant that if I'm forgiving them that we've repaired things, that everything is okay. And that is like so absolutely not true. And I know you've said that, and I just kind of wanted to jump up to reiterate it with my own personal experience because I heard that, but it's like I had a block and I couldn't really hear it. And I just kept like in my mind, I would hold on to those resentments because these people had hurt me greatly. And it was like my adaptive child trying to protect myself from getting hurt again. So I wouldn't forgive them because I didn't want to put myself in the position to be hurt by them. And it really only has been in these recent years that I've been able to see the separation. That, like you said, I can forgive someone for myself so that it's not eating me up inside, so that it's not my hand on the hot stove hoping the other person gets burned or drinking the poison or whichever situation you want to pick, or picking up the coal and throwing the hot coal at someone, but I'm the only one that gets burned. Yeah. And it was just like I was so, I felt like I had to hold on to those resentments to protect myself because I'm also the type of person that like I want to believe what people say. And so because I always believe the best in people, it's like today I have to see people follow through with the action and the words aren't enough. And so like I'm finding other ways to protect myself that don't include hurting myself more because that's really what it is. Like when I'm not forgiving somebody, I'm hurting myself. I'm in this like excruciating pain, ruminating over all the things that they've done to me, and I'm holding on to that pain so that I remember not to let them in again and not to let them hurt me again. Well, I can also do that with boundaries. I don't actually have to continue to like hurt myself and like be in all of this pain. Like it is okay for me to forgive someone else. I can't remember exactly what you said, but like my thought of it is compassion. I think understanding, I think is the word that you used. And yes, it's definitely like it's understanding, it's compassion. It's like when I forgive someone, I'm able to put myself in their situation to try to understand like what was that wounded person inside of them? How did that cause action? Like looking at like how it's probably not about me. It's really about their own issues. Um, you know, trying to remember that like people are always doing their best with where they're at. And yes, that may be somebody's best, but it also doesn't mean that I have to like share space with them because I might not be where they're at. Um, and I think that's like that's one of the most important things for me, or that was kind of the key is understanding that I can forgive someone and I still do not have to have them in my life. I still do not have to like go back to the old way of being. And it is safe to forgive, and there are other ways that I can take care of myself without resentment.

Why forgiveness is personal to you

Can you forgive and still feel angry?

Guest Four: Jennifer

Kristen 25:24

Mm-hmm. That's beautiful. Beautifully said. I'm gonna circle back to a couple things that you said. Oh, you're timing out. Thank you, Truth. Thank you, Truth. Uh, a couple things that were that came up for me when Truth was talking. And one was that the whole forgiveness piece for the other person, for me, she was talking about how it made her feel like that she needed to make now repair with the person and keep them in her life. For me, this is just me, the way my brain processed, and maybe some of you can relate to this, is it made me feel like I was telling them it was okay. And here's the thing: forgiveness is personal. This is just about us releasing weight, right? Dropping the 1400-pound bags that we have strapped to us. That's what it's really about. It's cutting those chains with the big bolt cutters, just cutting those chains between you and that person. But I felt like I was, it was me walking up to them saying, it's okay that you did that. And that kept me unconsciously pushing away from forgiveness. It just, it was just an unconscious mechanism that my brain was doing. Then when I realized that I didn't even need to tell the person, this is nothing to do with other people, you guys. Nothing. And even if someone has to be in your life for whatever reason, because there's mutual friends or family or things, and you might run across this person at some point, it's gonna put forgiveness positions us in a more centered, grounded state when we need to be around them. I'm thinking of a particular person right now that I had to be around only a couple times since the since the event. Let's just call it. Man, I was so powerful. I was such in a place. I get it, I understood, I am the wounding with you know where they were at in their life and their thing. Get it, get it, get it, get it, cut the tie, and hail no. And that's something that I had to figure out, grapple with, play with, think about. And it was actually in my research paper in my 20s in that class that I talked to you all about. And that is this is interesting because you're gonna hear different things out there, that anger can still live in the same house as forgiveness. Now, a lot of people think, oh, if you're still angry, then there's a problem. You haven't forgiven yet. Let me unpack. Thank you. Jeanette gets it. If I'm walking around every day angry and it's driven by this behavior, this event, this thing, this perpetration that was done to me, that's not forgiveness. But if I'm walking around light and airy, and I have forgiven and I've dropped and I've moved on and I've released, but then I think about that thing again, and I start to have some emotions around that thing, that's still forgiveness. Because anytime the brain is going to think about something that is charged in some capacity, we're gonna have an emotional reaction to it, just like watching a movie. So I can feel like I can feel this is one person in my youth, not different than the other one I was talking about, but this one particular person, I feel like I've forgiven them. I have. But when I still think back to it, I'm like, God, it's so sad. It's so sad that they did that. We were such good friends, you know, one of my ride or die type situations, what they call it now. Family, if you will. So it's still kind of a sad thing. But then I move on and I'm fine again. But when I immerse myself in thinking about it, of course I'm gonna have an emotion come up about it. Because remember, emotions follow thoughts. Does that make sense to everybody? I would love to see a show of emojis. Now, if I'm walking around and I've done this, okay, good. I see that Jeanette and a couple other people are picking up what I'm throwing down. Jeannie does, Teresa does, Robin, Sandy. Okay, great guys. Truth. If I'm walking around, and I did this with um another episode with two people who did something yucky. And every time that topic came up, I was mad. I wasn't screaming and yelling at people and acting like that, but it just came up and I was mad, and I was like, uh. And then I said, Wow, it's been five years, and this is still getting me hot. Still mad about this. The next time I popped myself in the shower, I said, God, Source Universe, I'm willing to forgive. Nope, didn't feel it. I wasn't willing to forgive. And I said, Okay, I'm willing to be willing. That clicked. I felt it. I am willing to be willing because I know it's hurting me, not them. They don't care. They've moved on with their lives. They're probably not even thinking about this anymore. Or thinking justified in what they did, right? So I said, willing to be willing. I felt a click, I felt a shift. And you know, like five days later, the subject came up again. And when that subject came up, I did not have that dense emotional reaction, that knee jerk, straight to anger, how dare them situation. It was just a conversation. And I thought, are you kidding me right now? It's one of the things that we can do that is so incredibly helpful is to just be willing. To just be willing. And if you're not willing, be willing to be willing. Or be willing to be willing to be willing. When you sit with yourself and your heart in a quiet space, and it's only it's only you communing with source, just you two, you'll know when that willing clicks. You'll know when it clicks, and that can open doors for you that may have seemed like they were bolted and s and glued shut and cemented shut and all the other things. All right, we're gonna bring up Jennifer, and then I'm going to be going into the process. And I think you guys will like this process because it's not as hairy, scary, or you know, this can be a really charged conversation for a lot of people. And I want to say, you guys are, you've all come up and just shared the most beautiful things. And I think for someone who's might be struggling, is like, you know what? I feel the love in this space, and I feel the truth in this space. And so please know that your contributions are helping more than you might know. Hey Jennifer.

Jennifer 31:55

Hello. This is such a funny topic today. Um, earlier I was listening to uh NPR uh 1A, and it was on how the internet has changed scammers, dating scams. You know, now we all get the email and the Nigerian prince and we ignore it. Some people are still falling for these dating scams, and the dating scams had turned into the internet that's actually related to international uh money laundering. What came up with me for that was my ex-husband. Because when I left him and took Ben, and Ben was little, he decided it was a good idea to make a profile and go online and he fell in love with someone. And he fell in love with a woman in Nigeria.

Kelly 32:38

No way.

Jennifer 32:39

Oh yeah. And he ended up you know, her mother was in the hospital and needed money for bills. And then the hospital wouldn't release the mother until the bills were paid because hospitals keep you hostage. You know, they want to tie up beds like that. Why am I sending money to a man? Oh, it's my uncle. Here we have the man handled it. Why can't I see you today? Oh, the camera, then my phone is broken. I need a new phone. Send me money for that. So I was receiving zero child support. All the money was going to Nigeria. Um the house that we had bought and he was living in went to foreclosure and he declared bankruptcy. And I in the process also discovered that he had co-signed my name fraudulently for a loan on the house we'd owned in Michigan. Anyway.

Kristen 33:31

Wow.

Jennifer 33:32

Yeah, and now like I look at that stuff and I'm like, huh, okay, well, it wasn't about me. You know, it impacted me. But it wasn't about me. However, that is not how I felt at the time, Kristen. I hated that man. I hated that man. Hate. Um and I was told after a little while by a dear friend that you need to forgive him. Uh, yeah. And she said, You need to pray every day that he receives you know, whatever it is that he wants in life. For a full month. And I was like, I pray he dies. I pray his carbon death attack. I you know, I mean she's like, no, Jennifer. Uh, that's not you pray that he gets like exactly what he deserves. And she said, no, that he gets what he wants out of life. You get what you want, and he gets what he gets what he wants out of life. I did not the anger felt self-righteous, and I was angry and deservedly. But the self-righteous part of it is where it went overboard. I can be angry, but when I become self-righteously angry, that's serving a different purpose within me, to elevate me. Um anyway, I finally did what she told me to do. And in less than thirty and his nickname was the asshole. In fact, that's all I called him. Unless our son was around, then I would not. And one day, and it was like twenty three days into it, she stopped me after a conversation and said, Do you know that you just called him Chris?

Kristen 35:06

And I went, Okay, yeah.

Jennifer 35:08

And she said, I've never heard you refer to him by his name. And I went, huh. And I noticed I felt lighter. And I kept doing it. And he didn't change, but I did. I changed. And in the Lord's prayer, and I'm not terribly religious, but forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. That started to mean something different to me. Because I have screwed up in life, especially when I was actively drinking. You know, 19 and a half years sober. However, I created some turmoil and people forgave me. And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others who trespass against us. So why couldn't I do? And again, I'm not religious. But you know, it goes up and down, and there are days that he I still hated him, but there were moments, and I felt better.

Stop trying to forgive

Let yourself feel

Separate healing from reconciliation

Shift from "It shouldn't have happened" to...

Be willing to release this

Guest Five: Sandy

Kristen 36:02

So that's the key. Thank Jennifer, powerful share. Thank you so much for coming up and sharing that today. Absolutely. I just I felt every moment of that if you guys did too. I mean, oh my gosh, and how it was, I mean, and I'm sure you know she's telling it like a story now, like just this happened, that happened, this happened, this happened. But were you guys like during that story going, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, what? I mean, it turns into kind of like a list. Yeah, Linda said yes. It it just sort of turns into a list. Like, yeah, this happened, that happened, this happened, that happened. But it's so much bigger than that, isn't it? Especially when it's happening to us, it's so much bigger, and it can feel so insurmountable. It can feel like, am I ever gonna get through this? Is this ever gonna get any better? Like she brought up a massive point, and I'm glad that she did, is that it's self-right. Sometimes it feels self-righteous, and it is. You have a right. You absolutely have a right. And that's gonna lead us into point one of the process of forgiveness and emotional release is stop trying to forgive. Start by fully validating the hurt. It's very, very important that we validate. The nervous system is not gonna release something that feels like it was never acknowledged, it just stays there. So before forgiveness is possible, our body, our mind needs to hear that was real, that mattered, and that hurt. And say it loud and say it plainly, say it clearly. What they did was wrong. It impacted me deeply. I did not deserve it. This is not victim mentality, this is emotional truth. When we try to forgive someone too soon, it could actually trap the trauma in the body. But when we give ourselves validation, we open the door to healing. Super important. We're not trying to do an emotional bypass here, we're not trying to skirt the issue here. It is very important that you honor you. Remember, five self-love tenets respect, protect, validate, all of these, have compassion for, grace, all of these things are about you. Give to yourself what you want to give from someone else. A lot of times we want to go outside and get validation for it. But again, like I've said before, anything from the outside world typically doesn't stick and just leads us, leaves us wanting more. We become as quote unquote kind of addicted to it. Like now I need more, now I need more because that didn't stick, that didn't satisfy for very long. Give it to yourself. Step number one: stop trying to forgive. Start by fully validating the hurt and the pain. Step two, let yourself feel the anger and the grief. This is essential. Many people want to resist this part because somewhere along the line they were taught that anger is bad or that strong emotions are wrong, or that you should be the bigger person, or we pretend it doesn't bother us. But anger is only a signal, a guidepost, a signpost that there was an injustice, or that there was a boundary that was crossed. There's a reason why we feel anger. It's important and it's there. Don't push it away. Let it be what it is. You are allowed to be angry. Grief is your system mourning what should have been, what could have been. In that example I was talking about with my friend that was like family, there was a lot of grief wrapped up into that. It was like she died. She was just in my life one day and gone the next. My boyfriend was in my life one day and gone the next. There was grief involved in that. There was betrayal involved in that. It was multi-layered. And it was sad. So I allowed myself to be with those emotions. Allow yourself to feel what you're feeling. Write it out, journal it out, say it to a friend, go to a rage room, do whatever you need to do. Get the anger, the emotion, move the energy, cry, shake, deep breathe, scream, yell, punch a pillow. Whatever you need to do, release, move the energy. What you're doing is you're making space for the forgiveness. Move the energy, make space. The third thing, biggie, biggie, biggie, biggie. And we've talked about this already. Number three, separate healing from reconciliation. This is crucial. This truth is so important. And again, we might it might take a couple times for us to really convince ourselves of this because our brain has been convincing us of something else for quite some time. So give yourself that space. This does not mean I have to reconcile. This does not mean I have to make repair. This does not mean I have to be in relationship with them or proximity with us again. Forgiveness doesn't mean we trust again. It doesn't mean we let somebody back in. It doesn't mean we excuse behavior. It does not mean that we minimize the harm that was created. We can forgive and still walk away forever and never see them again, never talk to them again. Forgiveness is about internal freedom at its core. We're freeing ourselves. Reconciliation is optional. When forgiveness feels unfair, it's often because it is confused with granting access again. These are not the same. I want to be unencumbered. I've had a lot happen to me, you guys. A lot. A lot of betrayal, a lot of injustice, a lot of what in the earth? How could you? How dare you? And didn't have a lot of people backing me up. Maybe, maybe a recognition that it was crappy, and that was kind of it. I was left with all of this. Like, oh yeah, that really sucks, Kristen. Wow. Or oh, I can't believe someone did that. And off they went. And I'm not saying this in a bad way because it's not their job to carry this, but I would try to talk about this and I wouldn't get a lot, or and I didn't have people saying, going to somebody else and saying, um, hey, this was not okay. I didn't have a lot of protection, but I needed to understand what all of this meant for myself so that I could heal. Number four. Shift from they shouldn't have to it happened and now I'm choosing my peace. Let's not be in denial about it. Let's not sit in the wishing. Oh, who's been in the wishing? Who's been in the wishing? Where we've just sit there and we're just wish it wouldn't have happened and wished it would have been better and wish something different, you know. Yeah. Normal, human. I'm seeing a lot of lot of emojis coming up for this one. Totally normal. This is a turning point because we're not approving. Linda said yes as well on the back channel. Is this not approving what happened? It is not liking it, it is accepting reality. You know, I talk about accepting reality. If we don't face reality, it will control us on some level. And we can't work with what's actually happening in our life because we're We're not what's the word I'm looking for? We're not in the um we're not stating it. We're kind of hiding from it. Okay? We're gonna stop arguing with the past. We're gonna stop saying I shouldn't have been treated this way. They shouldn't have acted that way. They ruined everything. This wasn't fair. Although all these things can be true, everyone, because they are true. They are true. But the nervous system is still gonna hear them as danger. They're still gonna hear them as something's unfinished. They're still gonna hear them as there's still a threat out there looming. Acceptance is I hate that that happened. I hate it. Throw cuss words in there if you need to. I always do. That that gives it a that's for me, cuss words. If I just go, God, I hate that. That does not feel the same to me. I need to add some adjectives on it to make it feel like really embody what I'm feeling. I need to, you know, have that. So that works for me. You do what works for you. Okay. This is saying I am I am in the awareness and in the clarity and in the truth of what happened. I don't like it, but it happened. And I am now making a conscious choice to release its hold on me. And when we make that conscious choice, you guys, this will accelerate healing. This is where healing starts to move. This is where we get momentum. It's just a choice. And remember that choice has an energetic frequency attached to it. And what does the universe do? It's always matching our energy. Always. So when I said that day in the shower, I am willing to be willing, I meant it. I was in alignment with that vibrational frequency, and universe matched it. Boom. It was fascinating to me. And the fifth one is forgiveness often begins as I am willing to let go of this. I am willing. Whether it's someday, if you have to add someday onto it, I'm willing to release this someday. I'm willing to let go of this. I'm willing to move on from this. Whether or regardless of not or whether you have, that willingness is enough to begin. Please know. That willingness is enough to begin. You don't have to feel at peace yet. You can still feel the anger. You don't have to fully mean it. Remember, I'm willing to be willing to be willing. All we're looking for is a crack in the door. Forgiveness is strange. There's layers to it. It's different for everybody. Okay? Do not judge yourself wherever you're at on your journey. I don't care if you've carried on forgiveness for 30 years. If that's the way it looked for you, that's the way it looked for you. But maybe this talk right now is kind of just a little tap on the shoulder saying, Sister brother, are you ready yet? Are you ready? 15 years ago when I when I went through this big forgiveness journey and I forgave everybody and everything and myself and all these things. And then when that thing happened, it was uh probably 10 years, I don't know how many years after the fact. Five, ten maybe five years after that, this other thing happened. Even though I'd had all this practice forgiving, I held on to that for five more years until I realized, like I mentioned earlier, that I had held on to it for five more years. And I was like, oh, that was a lot happening in my life. I wasn't really thinking about it. But as soon as I came to my recognition, I was like, hmm, yeah. Over time, as the pain moves through our body, as we release, as we form new perceptions, as we as many of us have come to understand that wounded people wound people, hurt people hurt people. And even though we can consciously wrap our head around it, it doesn't make it okay. And that helps us to uh deflate the balloon, to deflate the pressure a little bit, to just lower the intensity of the flame a little bit. Allow for process, everyone. Allow for it, let it be, let it move. Okay, we're gonna have Miss Sandy coming up. Welcome, Sandy. I have three of you in the queue, you guys, and about five minutes left on this talk. But what I will do is I will bring all three of you up because I'm very curious to see what you have to say. Hey Sandy, welcome.

Sandy 48:38

Hey, Kristen. So I totally get it, and I'm at the end of that journey with this forgiveness. Um, it's funny because everything today has revolved around this topic just by by chance. And I woke up the other morning and I was like, you know what? I'm done. I'm not gonna carry it anymore. Whether a conversation is had or not, yeah, you have to move forward. And sometimes you just have to have those tough conversations, courageous conversations, and let it be and let it fall where it falls. Yeah.

Kristen 49:19

Are you talking about with the person, with the perpetrator? Yeah.

Sandy 49:23

Yeah. The situation I'll do real quick was basically my sister, who's very secretive in her world, said something about me that what I was going through, and one of her best friends brought it up to me at a at a group gathering. And I was really profoundly hurt by that. And I knew she talked about other people, but I never knew she talked about me. Your sister.

Kristen 49:50

Yeah.

Sandy 49:51

Wow. Yeah. And and I felt betrayed and it went sideways. And it's been, even though, you know, I see her at family gatherings and things like that, and I'm cordial. Um, we certainly don't have a relationship because of that. Yeah. It it wounded me to the core. And I've been in therapy for a year and a half. And finally I woke up and I go, you know what? Let's be done. Be done with this. Yeah. Wow. And you know, and you said wounded people hurt wounded, you know, hurt others. And she doesn't have anything to talk about her life because she's so secretive. So she talks about other people. And I felt, you know, what happened to me was pretty horrific. And for her to share that as if it were gossip, I found so I just was really so profoundly hurt it wasn't funny.

Kristen 50:48

Um I don't I don't blame you. She shared your story for entertainment purposes or something to that effect. Yeah.

Sandy 50:56

And she said she used, she said she did it because she felt she needed support. And I go, that's not what support looks like. That's not what support looks like. So I'm dealing with somebody who's very emotionally challenged. You know, it's her thought process isn't gonna change, mine's not gonna change. So there's got to be a meeting of the mind, right? When I see her, I'm happy to see her, but it doesn't go beyond that at this point. Yeah. So yeah, it's a whole process. I've I've gone through the grief of it, the anger of it, the, you know, all of it. And I'm just like, you know what? I'm older and I don't, I don't want to leave this world with that. You know, I just don't. I don't I don't live my life that way, and it doesn't feel good to me. And it's got to be in a better place.

Kristen 51:55

I love that you came to that moment where, and I wonder what led up to it. If you had if you can explain it, where you just were like you said, you woke up and you're like, yeah, just be done with this. Like, you know, let this go. Do you know what preceded that or did anything precede that?

Sandy 52:11

You know what? I've been spending a lot of time on myself and a lot of quiet, reflective time. And I think it's just I want peace within me. And it actually has nothing to do with her. It's I'm I need to release this for myself. I need to say goodbye to it. And that's you know, and honestly, my therapist will be like, Well, what are you talking about? You know, she she's gonna be her mouth is gonna fall open, like it's because I'm doing work on my own as well. That, you know, I talked to uh Martin John this morning and we were talking about it, and it's I just uh I don't want to go into another year feeling like this. I love that, you know. So I'm gonna, you know, my birthday's this weekend, and I'm sure she's gonna text me, and she's gonna her mouth is gonna drop when I say, why don't we get together and have a conversation?

Kristen 53:16

Wow, Sandy. What a weight lifted. Oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you and happy birthday. I don't know the exact date of your birthday, but happy, happy birthday. What does it say? It's Monday, so your birthday's coming up here pretty quickly. That was beautiful. I love everything that Sandy had to say. That was excellent. Okay, we're gonna bring up Steven. Hey there.

Steven 53:38

Hey. Lots of what lots of swirling thoughts because a lot of people have touched on different things that I was going to say. I like the idea of um setting the boundary with the people that have wronged you. And I think initially we wander around out here in society and we just assume social media and everything else is telling us, well, you can't forgive them because that means forgetting and all. And then slowly somebody opens the door of well, there is a different way to look at this. And if you're willing to look at that different way, then you can start to shift. Think for myself, um, and we all know what the biggest thing I had to forgive for. The question that rattled in my head for a long time was why? Just why? Then the idea of hurting people hurt people, and I'm like, Well, really, is this person really hurting that much? And then it was explained to me how anxiety and depression controls the mind, and OCD is a way of coping with it, etc. etc. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you were sharing a house with one very sick puppy that would not admit it. Yes, then slowly uh, and a lot of this stuff recently, so it kind of ties into the serenity prayer, you know, grant me the serenity except things we cannot change. Well, you can't change another person, even though you want to, you want them to take back all the stuff they did or whatever. And I've also found myself asking the question, is like, well, that didn't feel too good, and and all of a sudden it's like, but was it about you ever?

Jennifer 55:41

Right.

Steven 55:42

Oh, and that's only been within the last couple of months here, especially after a weekend in January there. I'm like, that question keeps coming up in my head, was this about you? And I'm like, dude, stop it.

Kristen 55:59

That's gold right there. That's gold.

Steven 56:02

Well, that's my that's my father telling me that.

Kristen 56:08

Yep.

Steven 56:09

And not my biological father. We'll just leave that. Gaudy.

Kristen 56:15

That's what my mom used to say, gaudy.

Steven 56:20

I like the term ABBA, which translates to daddy. That's cute. Yeah, so I call him dad, which is what I called my biological father. So, you know, it ties in together.

Kristen 56:36

Wow. How do you feel in that department? When you think about things, do you ever have any emotion come up still? You still have a little bit of anger, or how you know what is let's touch in, let's touch base with your emotional state with this, just out of curiosity, not about coaching it or judging it. Just because I we know you know the path that you've been down, Stephen, and we know that you've put a lot of work into healing. So I'm just curious where you at.

Steven 56:59

Yeah, so what you brought up was the um when you think of the person, what do you think of? Do you think of anger or do you not? And the idea that if you think of anger, then you haven't forgiven. It's like, and that was presented to me. But really, what comes up to me is just sadness. This probably had something to do with uh one lady I dated back in 23. She says, That's all I feel for you guys is sadness. If you'd have just taken a chance, maybe counseling would have, but both people have to be open to it. I'm like, yeah, and I can't control the other person, so it's just sad that this is I'm kind of collateral damage.

Kristen 57:40

Yes. And to me, it's sad for them too.

Steven 57:46

Oh, it is because she's still one of them.

Kristen 57:49

Yes.

Steven 57:50

Yeah, and you can't you can't control any of that stuff. They deserve a better life, but you can't make them get a better life. And some of it, like I said, it was collateral damage. So a buddy of mine who uh has now passed on, I I got so upset one time and I was like, uh I'm gonna use a I'm gonna dumb it down. So screw her and the horse she rode in on. And he goes, and the one next to it. And I'm like, what did the one next to it do? And I'm like, oh dude, that's collateral damage.

When your heart becomes free...

Calls to action

Kristen 58:23

Oh. Yeah, wow, Steven, that was amazing. Yes. Great job. Thank you for sharing that with me. Something came up for me while Steven was talking, and that is when he said, you know, he was feeling sadness now. Now let me back up. He said, I he said that I said, What do you what do you feel when you think of the person? I wasn't talking about the person, I was talking about the story. Okay, just so everybody's clear there. I was talking about when you think of the story. When we think of a story, we may still have emotions around it because we still don't like the story. Just like we can watch a movie and watch the same scene 25 times and still cry or still get mad or so whatever. So let me just make that clarity. But when he was saying that, he thinks back now and he thinks sad, that's what came up for me. That's exactly I was thinking that same thing when I was thinking I asked Steven the question, then I was thinking back to how I felt about that particular person. It's just sad to me. And I know now that their life went on and through mutuals, people that we know, you know, telling me stories about where they're at right now. And I was just like, wow, it's it's sad to me that they they pretty much whatever was in them to do the thing at the time is still there and has even gone on to create even more problems in other areas in their life. So again, I was just, yeah, I was just one of the players in their field. I was just one of the people that that got hit with the mud. It makes me sad. So I was thinking about that too. Not like sad, I want to cry, but that's the emotion that comes up. Here's the other thing, you guys, when your heart becomes free, let me say that again. When your heart becomes free, when your heart becomes free, you're going to see it very differently. The perception changes. You're going to see it through an entirely different lens. And that's why I feel like that sadness comes up for me when I think of them. I want to tell you guys that this conversation is was absolutely off the charts beautiful. The shares today were extraordinary. I want to say that when I wrote my first book from Doormat to Sweet Empowerment, get this, you guys, I almost purposefully left out the part of forgiveness. Why? Because I was scared. Because when you talk about forgiveness in the world, people get mad at you. I'm not forgiving them. How dare you? And being that I was new to the speaking arena and the writing books arena and the blogging arena and being out in the world arena like this, I was like, yeah. And I remember my brain negotiating this with me. I'm just gonna leave, I'm just gonna leave that out. But there was a part of me that said, you can't. You gotta be courageous enough to talk about forgiveness because this is the way. This is one of the miracle cures. This is one of the ways that we release ourselves and we free ourselves so that we can attract and create the life and relationships of our dreams, so that we can heal. So the lens is changed for which we see ourselves and others. Forgiveness is the pathway. Forgiveness of others and forgiveness of yourself, which again is one of the five self-love tenets outlined in my book, The Recovering People Pleaser. I am no longer afraid to talk about forgiveness, just so you all know, as you can tell, I will talk about it until those doggone cows come home again. We don't know where they went off to this time, but I will talk about it until they arrive. It's something that I could repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat, no matter how much pushback I get from it now. But what I know now is that everybody's on a particular journey, and there's spaces and places and timing and all kinds of things. They're in communion with source, just like I am. And I can deliver the message. That doesn't mean it's for now. Doesn't mean it's forever. It just means here you go, here's some information. Do with it what you will, decide what you will. No one's gonna force you or tell you to do anything. It's your life. You get to choose. For those of you who are new here and haven't yet, I do recommend that you jump over to my Link Tree by clicking on my profile picture here and clicking where it says my link tree. I have tons of free resources over there. I have guides and workbooks, I have checklists, I have quizzes, I have the links to my other social media accounts, which I'm not on that much, but we can communicate over there. I have my YouTube channels over there with like 600 plus videos by now. This podcast that I record here on Nune Vibe Live, this gets edited and put up on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. So if you're listening on one of those platforms, I would super appreciate if you're if you're enjoying what you're hearing here, that you would pop over to the App Store and leave a five-star rating and review. And for those of you here on Nune Vibe, you can do the same because that helps, that's the only way that podcasts reach bigger numbers of audiences is through the ratings and reviews. There's no algorithms, there's no tags, there's none of all these things. So if you guys are getting some value from these conversations, I would super appreciate it if you did that. And until next time, everybody, remember you matter, your heart matters, your energy matters, your space matters, your mind matters, your experience matters, your pain matters. Everything about you matters. You're a brilliant, beautiful, gorgeous, delicious, delectable, unique human being. And you, my beloved, have the power to forgive. So that you can strip off some of that mud and sticks and stones and coating that's all over your beautiful gorgeousness. So that you can rise high and you can begin attracting and creating if you aren't already in the business of doing so. The life and relationships of your dreams. You can have anything you want. Please remember that. The universe is abundant. Much love, everybody. I'll see you tomorrow.