Let's Talk Health
Let’s Talk Health is Torrens University Australia's flagship podcast, shining a light on the health and wellbeing topics that matter most to Australians. Hosted by Natalie Cook, Director of Innovation, Industry and Employability in Health and Education, each episode brings engaging conversations with experts from our Health faculty and staff.
We’ll cover mental health, chronic pain, nutrition, naturopathy, ageing and more, delivering evidence-based insights, expert perspectives and practical advice to support informed health choices.
Let's Talk Health
Is sitting worse than smoking? The hidden health impacts of sedentary life explained | with Assoc. Prof. Fahad Hanna
In this episode of Let's Talk Health, host Natalie Cook speaks with Associate Professor Fahad Hanna, a public health expert from the Centre for Healthy Futures at Torrens University Australia, to explore the health risks associated with our increasingly sedentary lifestyles. From the convenience of remote work to hours spent in front of screens, the modern world encourages us to sit for prolonged periods, but at what cost?
In this episode, we cover:
- The health risks of prolonged sitting and its effect on musculoskeletal health
- The connection between sedentary behavior and mental health issues, including stress, anxiety, and depression
- How working from home and the virtual lifestyle during COVID-19 exacerbated sedentary behavior
- Tips for combating sedentary lifestyles at work and home
- The role of physical activity in boosting productivity and well-being
- How simple changes to your daily routine can help break the sedentary cycle
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Welcome to Let's Talk Health. I'm your host, Natalie Cook, Director of Innovation, Industry and Employability in Health and Education at Torrens University Australia. On this podcast, you'll hear from experts who'll share their knowledge to help you make more informed choices about your health. This week we're talking about something that many regard as a modern epidemic, although not the kind you might be thinking about, and that's our increasingly sedentary lives. We have the convenience of being able to bring so much into our homes. We can stream movies, food to the door, of any cuisine working from home. But at what cost? Joining me today to discuss these trends and the impact they're having on our population's health is Associate Professor Fahad Hanna, learning facilitator in public health and researcher at the Centre for Healthy Futures at Torrens University Australia. Fahad, thanks for joining me.
Fahad Hanna:Thanks for inviting me, Nat.
Natalie Cook:My pleasure. Now, this topic seems almost ironic to me because I know you're an active guy. And so how does someone like you get interested in actually researching sedentary behavior?
Fahad Hanna:Well, I think you almost answered the question because when you're active and you're health conscious, which I hope I am one, and then you find yourself moving into this work style, if you like, or lifestyle that is completely sedentary and involves sitting and prolonged sitting, you suddenly realize something doesn't make sense. And so you start to wonder one session sitting there for two, three hours being really busy, and then all of a sudden getting up and feeling like you know there was something. You felt a little bit of fatigue, and then you wonder whether that was related to that prolonged sitting session. And so by design, being being someone who is health conscious, I guess, I started to research the area and I started to really think about what's happening here and how we're moving into more sedentary sort of lifestyle. And that's where the whole thing started. And I think it's it's a huge public health issue. And as a public health practitioner myself, my job is to highlight the risk and highlight the issue and investigate and research, and that that's where I am at the moment.
Natalie Cook:Is there like a definition though of what sedentary means? Like is it a proportion of your day that you know inactive, or is it just Yeah, it's a good question.
Fahad Hanna:I mean, I guess there's different levels. And you know, people like us, academics or deskbound uh sort of jobs, they tend to be more sedentary than, for example, those working in a bakery or those working in a design studio where there's movements and there is there's all sorts of things. Depending on what you do, and I think that's when interventions I guess come into it in terms of how do you break that sedentary cycle or that's obviously if you're going to work seven to eight hours a day and you spend most of that sitting on your desk looking, staring at the computer, that's considered highly sedentary. Don't forget that following that, you probably go home, you you're tired, you're exhausted, and you might be sitting on the couch for a couple of hours because you just worked all day. And so that sedentary behavior continues. So it's not just about being in the office, it's also about what you do outside that that matters.
Natalie Cook:Totally. And I think I I catch myself definitely many days where like I have sat in front of this computer all day long, having meetings with people, but you're having meetings on Team or Zoom or something like that.
Fahad Hanna:Like it's just it's And you know what's interesting if you spend those days where you spent longer hours, if you like, in one session, you feel you feel the fatigue a little bit more than the days where you had to move around and go and do things or pick up things, or you know, had meetings, for example, in different rooms and so on and so forth, which is something I think we might talk about a little bit later.
Natalie Cook:It's and it's it's it's really quite validating to have you say that that does have a real effect. You said just before that once you're in a habit, you know, it's hard to, you know, it becomes the normal. Do you think the changes, though there's big changes when we when COVID, the pandemic happened, everyone was working from home. We weren't commuting into the office, we would just get out of in a lot of cases.
Fahad Hanna:I mean and that was so convenient, wasn't it?
Natalie Cook:So convenient, but at what cost? Like and and have we bounced back to how we used to be? Have we have we got worse habits because of that? Like, what do you what's your read on that?
Fahad Hanna:Yeah, so I think moving into that sort of virtual lifestyle, it definitely solved a lot of problems. Obviously, we couldn't commute, we couldn't go to office, we couldn't travel. In some cases, you know, during lockdowns, we couldn't leave home. Being able to connect and work and do things virtually was very convenient. It was actually quite costly. We turned into more sedentary, we lacked that sort of social connection, if you like, and the real connection and conversations with people. We were bound to our desk for significantly longer hours. And what was dangerous about that is that we felt that we could do it. We actually felt that we could do it and we could actually do our jobs and our work and perform well without having to move. That was the risk. That was the danger behind it.
Natalie Cook:So why would we ever change back? In a way, you know, I mean, like that's the question you would ask yourself. You're like, oh, this works perfectly well. But I think the work imagine like a worst-case scenario, which I feel like I've done sometimes, is you wake up, you walk from one room to another in your house, so you've done 10 steps, you know, to get to work for the day. You sit at your computer all day, staring at the screen, and then maybe, you know, you cook some dinner or you just order some food to come in and then watch a movie. Like you could have a whole life that would have previously involved commuting to the office, going out for dinner, going to the movies, all in our one home. Like it's it's crazy.
Fahad Hanna:It's quite convenient, but and it did it did feel convenient at the time, but the more we did that, the more it impacted our health and our well-being. There was this connection in many, many ways. You know, your body doesn't feel great. There's a saying, healthy body, healthy mind. So when your body is sitting in one spot all day, how could that be healthy for your body? So eventually we started to feel like this is impacting our well-being, our mental health, and there's been research that is looking into those sort of situations. Obviously, there was research about sedentary lifestyle prior to that. But during the pandemic, that was definitely taken to the next level in terms of everybody almost became embedded into that sort of virtual lifestyle. You know, no room to go and and no time to go and exercise and do things. It definitely led to probably more than a few of us asking the question: is this the best approach or is this becoming really costly, that sort of convenient lifestyle.
Natalie Cook:So people experience that sensation of I'm a bit tired or I feel a bit lazy or I could have done, you know, I hadn't moved today. But what's the research saying is actually happening to the populations?
Fahad Hanna:So there's a lot of research that we that was done on uh sedentary lifestyle and sedentary behavior. The most obvious one was musculoskeletal problems. If your body doesn't move, if you if you stay in one spot for a prolonged period of time, chances are that you're going to have back issues and other musculoskeletal issues and aches and so on and so forth. The other and slightly more hidden problem was mental health and well-being.
Natalie Cook:Yeah, right.
Fahad Hanna:Yep, because what happens is that when you moving less, your stress hormones are actually being activated as opposed to, for example, endorphins that are uh triggered or released by uh movement and by physical activity. By even sometimes moving around and talking to people and socializing can lead to uh stress hormones being overcome by uh those endorphins and other things. Sedentary behavior and sedentary lifestyle and virtual lifestyle in particular, especially during the pandemic, actually impacted our social being. So not being able to connect with people, not being able to be out there and doing things for some people was uh a reason for obviously mental health issues and anxiety and all sorts of other things. But the sort of things that stand out is definitely musculoskeletal and uh obviously mental health issues due to that disconnection between the body and the mind.
Natalie Cook:You mentioned before that healthy, healthy body, healthy mind, it's an age-old saying, it's you know longer ago than just the pandemic. But you're saying that actually the research can demonstrate there's actually a connection.
Fahad Hanna:Definitely, definitely.
Natalie Cook:Do you think we've got this kind of hustle culture where we are expected to be at our desks more because we've got all of this technology that makes everything possible? It's like you can be on you can be working all the time, really. There's connectivity, everyone's got Wi-Fi mostly, you know. If we're talking about we're based here we're talking here in Melbourne today, so let's say we're we're we're looking around us here.
Fahad Hanna:I mean, do you think we're getting more productive, or do you think actually the costs are more so unfortunately productivity is somehow linked to being on your desk and looking at staring at your computer and it kind of makes sense in a way. But that sort of culture definitely needs to change. And I think more and more workplaces now are focusing on well-being rather than productivity, if that is the term to use here. If your job is sedentary and your job is basically sitting on the computer doing those meetings and doing whatever you do on the computer, obviously being away from the computer means you're not working. But that culture has to change, it has to shift. Because of what we know about sedentary behavior and sedentary lifestyle, people should be able to move around, people should be able to have breaks, and uh that doesn't mean you're lazy, it means you're committed to work, but you're also committed to your health and well-being. So workplaces should promote health and well-being in certain ways, I think. And in fact, there are a lot of workplaces now are moving towards promoting and celebrating that sort of style of breaking your sedentary sessions and getting up and stretching a little bit and you know having a conversation with some of the colleagues. There was time when I did a speech about this sedentary behavior, and I and I suggested that in every workplace there should be a nice room for chats and discussions, and people get together every hour or so and having a little bit of catch-up and chats because you have to have a particular system and a platform to actually encourage people to do things. Otherwise, you could be easily immersed into that sort of lifestyle and and and be there on your computer for hours and hours without noticing, which is very dangerous.
Natalie Cook:It's interesting that you say that I was lucky enough to go to um a Google office in the States once, and they made a real point of making sure that within whatever distance of every work there had to be like a kitchen and there had to be these different sorts of things because they were recognising this I guess the social needs as much as the you need to move around, sort of mind you, they also wanted people to work at the office long hour. They'd you know bring in hairdressers and things so that you didn't actually have to leave. And I guess this is the problem in schools as well, right? So the kids are on their computers too. True schools, workplaces. What are the sorts of things that they can do to help people be more active or have more movement in their day?
Fahad Hanna:So schools and uh other places like universities and any other space where you have your customers or your clients being strategy for a prolonged period of time, you kind of need to have a system. You need to have programs that interrupt sitting, breaks, sessions, small physical activity uh sessions here and there. It depends on the workplace, obviously, it depends on the school, it depends on what is available, sometimes the weather, going outside and doing a little bit of activities. I mean, I as I guess as long as it is embedded into the policy of that workplace, chances are that it's it's going to be applied, it's going to be followed. So moving around, I always encourage my students as an academic to stand up, do a bit of stretching, get out a little bit. When I give them a break, I ask them, I make sure that they don't stay on their seats for that matter. What's the point otherwise? Once you disconnect through that physical inhibition, it becomes less productive anyway. So for those who sit on the computer for hours thinking that I've got a lot of work, I'm being productive, think about maybe moving around a little bit so that he can come back with a fresh mind and being able to perform better and be more productive. That's how I see it.
Natalie Cook:Is social media playing a role in this as well? Do you think?
Fahad Hanna:In terms of positive or negative?
Natalie Cook:Well, there's a question.
Fahad Hanna:I I'm I'm assuming negative because it keeps people glued to their Ah, you mean in terms of being stuck on social media? Uh definitely. And unfortunately, especially for young people these days, it it's a huge risk factor for mental health issues. And then if you add to that all sorts of other things like cyberbullying and what have you, and body image, and the list goes on and on and on. Sessions on social media is never a good thing. So obviously, young people need to be aware. Schools need to embed that into their curriculum, into their teaching, because we are destined into what is really dangerous territory uh in a way if we don't if we don't take care. It's going to be like that.
Natalie Cook:And when you say the the the association between sedentary behavior and mental health issues, like what sort of mental health issues are we talking about? You say it's it's dangerous.
Fahad Hanna:Social media can lead to anxiety, can lead to depression, depending on what where you're watching, what you're doing. If you have certain issues, for example, certain body images can make some young people feel bad about themselves and about their own body image and so on and so forth. Sometimes you know you talk about cyberbullying quite a bit. If we go back to sedentary, I can remember the last time somebody told me that they were in the gym doing some sort of exercise and being on social media. It's usually sitting down in your room, being isolated. So that isolation is also a factor as opposed to being with people, with your family or family members. And so it has a lot of repercussions when you think about social media and prolonged sessions on social media. Yeah.
Natalie Cook:I spoke with one of other uh Torrance University researchers, Claire Littleton, recently, and all of her research exactly around that, around social isolation, loneliness, and the impact that has on our on our mental health as well. So it's all a bit interconnected, isn't it?
Fahad Hanna:It's all interconnected, and unfortunately, this is where we're heading. Unless we are careful and we we're aware and we have plans in place through policies, through workplace interventions, through school uh curriculums and so on and so forth, it's it doesn't look great. Humans were not designed to be sedentary and to be sitting staring at a screen. They were never designed to do that.
Natalie Cook:So a few years ago, I feel like it was now, um, people started saying sitting is the new smoking in terms of a health risk. So standing desks became hot. If one needed a standing desk, did they solve the problem?
Fahad Hanna:It's interesting. Uh really good question. It's interesting. You you said sitting is in the new smoking. I think it's worse than smoking. Wow. Yeah, and obviously that your your risks differ from you know depending on who you are and your age and all sorts of things and and and how long you're sitting and all. So those responses there. But in terms of sitting, standing, in the early 2000s, a lot of people were talking about standing, and yes, it does break up the sitting, if you like, but it doesn't break up the sedentary behavior. So we were thinking about sitting being bad for you. But what's the difference between sitting and staring at the screen and then deciding to get up and stand and look at the screen? How much of an improvement would that do? Yeah, honestly. Well, I mean, so so yes, maybe tiny improvement here and there, but I think research now has shifted towards sedentary altogether, regardless whether you're standing or not. Besides, sometimes standing, if you're not in the in the right posture, that can it can get your back muscles, shoulder muscles, all sorts of things. I think even with sitting, if you're not in the bad posture, it will affect you significantly more than somebody who is quite conscious of their posture and trying to actually do the right thing. So there you go. And how many times we get busy and we start slouching and posture computers is terrible. So I guess one of the things that also came up in the research is the longer you sit, the less likely it is you can control your posture. That is why breaks and getting up and stretching and going back fresh again is really, really good.
Natalie Cook:And you say, you know, we're not built to be sedentary, we're built to move. And you look at like a little, I've no little toddler, and they sit so straight when they're just sitting up. It's like so it's obviously that's exactly.
Fahad Hanna:They're designed, yeah, we're designed that way. And then story technology and all sorts of things that we do in our life changes.
Natalie Cook:Is the average shape of the population changing? Like, are we getting heavier? Are we on average as a population? You know, rates of, I know you I've heard the term recently like um blow obesity, like a the obesity is an epidemic.
Fahad Hanna:We're becoming more obese, definitely. We're becoming more obese for sure. Uh it's not just a sedentary lifestyle, but but that's a big part of it. I think when you look at everything else, processed food and you know, the technology and the social media and the sedentary jobs, and then you have the pandemic and the virtual lifestyle and the convenience of it. It's such a tricky thing when you think about the convenience. I mean, you think about this is really convenient. I can have meetings with three, four different teams across the globe within two hours while I'm sitting on my desk. How exciting is that? But then the the repercussion, the health repercussions and the issues that are associated with that sort of thing, especially when you do it on a regular basis, it's actually really beyond the imagination. Like you wouldn't have thought 20 odd years ago that you would do that.
Natalie Cook:If you could project forward and design a better workplace, a healthier workplace, what would what would that look like to you? What makes a healthier workplace? So a healthy school or a healthier university in terms of all of these issues that we've got.
Fahad Hanna:How much time do we have? So I would definitely create rooms that are inviting, that are interesting, and that are encouraging for people to join and maybe even having a couple of tread meals there. Definitely sit-stand stations, but at the same time do something in a way that people move from one spot to another, give them reasons to move around and do things. But also chat and mingle. Sometimes you can sit on a desk and you've got somebody next to you and you never talk to each other and you never look at each other, and you're three hours later and you're like, oh, my back. Oh, and then they look at you and they they they smile. You know, it kind of needs to change a little bit the culture and encourage each other. Come on, let's get up, let's move around a little bit. We've been sitting there, I noticed for an hour now. I think people encouraging each other is a good thing, and uh also create that opportunity to connect and to work as a team in a way, or even stretching room, even like a nice stretching room. Something encouraging, inviting.
Natalie Cook:And maybe just normalizing not having back-to-back meetings or not that hustle, like we're saying, that that productivity is equated to how long you sit and stare at your screen for. Are there other measures of productivity? Do we actually incentivize, you know, what do we put in place to help people go? It's okay to step away from your computer, it's okay to actually get up, stretch, move. Like how do you normalize that?
Fahad Hanna:Through cultural transition.
Natalie Cook:Yes.
Fahad Hanna:So you need to change the culture, you need to you need to practice what you preach, for example. You know, we're we're public health people, we we're researchers, we're academics. Everybody knows we all read papers, we all read research uh your articles and see things on the news. A lot of people know that being sedentary for a prolonged period of time is not good for you. We were just saying that it's the new smoking. So I guess practicing what we preach and what we know is about creating a culture that that embraces movement and taking breaks and going for a bit of stretch and going outside. There was a time when I used to just literally leave my desk or my classroom and go outside and walk around the block in the city. And I always felt better going coming back, all the endorphins and all the fresh blood pumping into my my head. I was actually going to my next class, I was doing much better.
Natalie Cook:And just to maybe to round it out, if someone's listening and going, Oh my god, I know all of these things are true and I don't move enough, but I can't change, you know, my work has a particular culture or a way of doing, and I can't change that when it's not going to change overnight. What's one place someone could start if they're recognizing in themselves like I really do need to move a bit more in my day-to-day? What do you recommend is like the simplest way to just start?
Fahad Hanna:Well, uh a lot of people talk about setting up an alarm system, for example. Every 30 to 40 minutes alarm goes off. These days everybody has digital watches and mobile phones, etc. Set it up. And when it when the alarm goes off, just get up and do a couple of minutes of searching here and there. I mean, we've been saying that for years. And people still people don't know why, because we get embedded into your your work and there's so many things to do. Every day you look at your your emails and there's like 40 emails to answer. When do you take a break? In fact, people are taking breaks by answering emails and by by doing little tasks here and there between meetings.
Natalie Cook:But they're not stepping away from the work.
Fahad Hanna:They're not stepping away, so it's quite tricky. And look, I don't have a magic solution to this that, but there needs to be some sort of cultural shift in how we do it and what we do if we really care about the well-being of our people.
Natalie Cook:Yeah, and look, I think, I mean, one, it's very compelling having you sort of just give the facts of what the research says. It's one thing to think at yourself, but when it's there's a research, it's quite compelling. This is a problem, uh, and it's a problem for us, not just at individuals, it's our population, you know, with chronic disease and so on that that can come from this. So I think it's compelling, and I think in the same way as other challenges like mental health, where you just you have to start talking about it and raising awareness, and then something shifts from being a taboo or something that wasn't discussed to something that that is and it can become a normal. And and I think what you're saying is start where you are, start with something you can do, impact the person next to you, you know.
Fahad Hanna:Yeah, I think to kind of have that sort of culture shift, everybody needs to do their bit, everybody needs to practice what we're talking about now, knowing that there's so much risk associated with sedentary behavior and prolonged sittings. Talking about mental health earlier, how mental health was a taboo to come in and ask for help. I mean, when we link mental health and sedentary behavior, there's a huge connection. So um, yeah, they can feed into each other literally, you know. So I've seen people with mental health issues spending more time sitting down, not moving, not interacting with people, but also when you talk about the social media side of it, it kind of becomes a vicious cycle in a way. So we really need to break that cycle.
Natalie Cook:Let's just hope whoever's listening is um got their earbuds in and they're going for a walk while they're listening. I think we should get up now. I feel like we should be.
Fahad Hanna:We should get up now. I was about to say, let's have a break. So we can we we can practice what we preach. Yeah.
Natalie Cook:Yeah, that's so right. Thank you so much for joining me, Susan.
Fahad Hanna:My pleasure.
Natalie Cook:And a disclaimer the information discussed in this podcast is for general information purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. The content should not be relied on as a substitute for professional health care. And if you have any concerns about your health, please do consult a qualified healthcare professional.
