My Journey Making Sourdough: What I Learned About Life, Persistence, and Imperfection

Follow me through my 5 year journey to learn how to make sourdough bread and what it taught me about life, perseverance, and imperfection.

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Two opportunities to reteat with me!

June 19-21, 2026 in Granby, CO

More Info/Registration: www.dendawn.com/experiences

June 14-19, 2027 in Quintana Roo, MX

More Info/Registration: www.dendawn.com/sacred-awakening-retreat

Email question/comments: Lindsey@dendawn.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Den Circle, a space where we gather to explore the powerful intersection of ancient wisdom and modern techniques. In a fast-paced world, it's easy to feel disconnected from our fault, from each other, and from deep-rooted knowledge that our ancestors held so dear. In the circle, Will delve into obstacles like meditation, rock work, song healing, and somatic movement, shared in an easy-to-receive and contemporary manner. Each episode is a journey to uncover tools for healing, growth, and connection, helping us navigate the challenges of today while reconnecting with our ancestral roots. So tune in, get comfy, and let's begin. Hey connection seekers, welcome back to the Dem Circle. This is season two, episode four. And before we get started, I just wanted to remind you all or let you know that we I am hosting a couple retreats in the near future. The first one is this summer, June 19th through 21st, 2026, and that will be up in the mountains near Grand Lake, Colorado. And we are, it's just a small group of women that are gonna get together, and I will lead us through just some really fun connection experiences, some ceremonies. We'll bring in the summer solstice together and just spend some time connecting and in ceremony and maybe healing or releasing some stress and a little bit of adventure as well. So if you're feeling called to join us, please register. There's only a few spots left. The price is$6.50, very affordable for the weekend, and that includes your stay and all of your food and all of the activity. And then the second retreat I'm hosting will be in 2027. That's June 14th through 19th, 2027, and that's actually in Mexico, in um just about 20 minutes outside of Cancun. So you'd fly into the Cancun airport, and then we'd all take the shuttle to the retreat center. And there are so many amazing activities that we are going to be doing on this retreat in Mexico. Um, and it's Cintonaroo, Mexico, and that the price for that retreat is$1,800, and that includes your stay and all of your food for uh six days, five nights, and all of the experiences as well while we are at the retreat center. Um, the only thing extra is airfare and any excursions that you might want to do outside of the retreat center. And that's just y'all, I love hosting international retreats, and uh I've hosted a few of them, and I just really enjoy getting out of um, you know, our western modalities if you're from the states, and really just trying out different cultures and uh learning in different ways. Um, and this retreat center is very cool because we will have a lot of interaction with indigenous peoples of the area and some ceremonies led by the indigenous peoples that live in that area and really be able to enjoy the sacred lands that it is built on. So I highly encourage you to check that out as well. If you're interested in any either of these opportunities, you can visit my website www.den. That's d-en v a w n dot com slash experiences. And I will also put that website in the show notes. So if that you're feeling called to go on retreat with me, check those uh opportunities out. So today I thought we would take a little uh detour from talking about brain regulation and healing and trauma and spiritual paths and all that, and talk about sourdough. Because why not? Um I started making sourdough uh about two years after COVID, uh, after we were, you know, stuck, so after 2020. So two about a year and a half, two years after 2020 when we were all stuck at home. And that's I feel like the the sourdough craze really happened in 2020, and everybody was just all of a sudden making sourdough. And I just couldn't at that time. I uh have three kids and they were all home. And at the time I had a baby who was, you know, moving into toddlerhood, and both my husband and I were working from home, and we just we had a full house and we had so many things, even though everybody else seemingly had nothing to do, I don't know, during COVID. I had every so much to do. Um, I was so busy, even though I was stuck at home, um, you know, helping the kids do their school and chasing a toddler and working from home. And it was just a crazy time for me and my family. So I did not get into the sourdough craze until several years later. Uh and uh I really got into it because I read somewhere that uh sourdough, first of all, is one of the healthiest breads you can eat, and second of all, that it could be um easily more easily digestible for people who can't eat gluten. And I haven't been able to eat gluten for about 14 years. And so I got interested in making sourdough because I thought, well, if I could try it and if I if it if it's you know, if it if I don't react to it, then you know, that's great. I could then begin eating bread again. Uh and so I did some research on sourdough and you know, why people, some people with gluten intolerance can eat it and not react. And it really has to do with the fermentation process, and you know, it all just kind of went into this scientific, you know, why it works for some people. And I just thought, well, you know, I'll just go ahead and experiment on myself, which I often like to do, and see if if it works. So I but then you know, you have to, there's a whole thing about getting started with sourdough, like you have to have a starter or you have to create your own starter, and then you have to there's just this whole process to making it. But then I thought, you know, if all these people during COVID could do it, like I can do it. I always like a challenge. Uh and so I was talking to my friend. We had gone back to work, and I was talking to my friend about it. She says, Oh, I learned how to make sourdough. She's like, it's great. And she was gluten intolerant as well, or is gluten intolerant as well. And she said that she doesn't, she could eat it, um, and it didn't and didn't react to it. So I said, Okay, I'm gonna give it a try. So she gives me a starter, she has a starter to give me, and she goes through the whole process. She makes it sound really easy, like this, this, this, this, this, this, right? Um, but if you look at it on paper, it's a five-step process, but in between each one of those steps is like hours. It's like a very long time in between each of these steps, right? Because you have to let each step sit for a certain amount of time. So I thought it was going to be just this easy two-hour process. And then once I really kind of got into it and started to explore it, I was like, oh my gosh, this is like a 24-hour process. Holy cow, I don't have time for this. So I started to look for easy ways to make sourdough. I started to look for shortcuts, and one of the best ones I found was to make sourdough in a bread maker. And I thought, whoa, and it's, I mean, it said two-hour sourdough in the bread maker. And I said, Well, I could do that. And guess what? I had a bread maker. I didn't even have to buy a bread maker because I had one because I had tried to make gluten-free bread, and it was I didn't like it. And so I really only used it a couple times. And so I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna press the easy button and make this sourdough in my bread maker. So I dug out the bread maker and cleaned it up, and um, you know, basically all you had to do, the hardest thing you had to do was learn how to feed your starter. And so I learned how to do that. And then once you had a fed starter, you just dump everything into all the ingredients into the bread maker, turn it on, and in two hours you have sourdough bread. So easy peasy. So I made my first loaf of sourdough bread, and it turned out really well. Everybody loved it, and I had, you know, I was excited, I tried it and had a piece of it, and the next day I was violently ill. So guess what? I guess I reacted to the sourdough. I guess I was one of the people who, or I assumed I was one of the people who couldn't eat sourdough because of my gluten intolerance. And but I had this starter, right? And so once you have a starter, it's like you either have to like throw it away or you keep it alive. You have to keep it alive. Well, my family loved the sourdough so much that I just kept making it in the bread maker, even though I couldn't eat it. And that's fine because, you know, hey, it was healthy, healthier bread for my family, and I was fine with making it this way, right? And it it didn't take good, you know, two hours of my day really. Actually, it only took like 10 minutes to feed the starter and dump it in the machine and let it do its thing. No time at all, really. So I spent several years making sourdough for other people in my bread maker. And all the while grieving the fact that I still couldn't eat bread, and that was the whole reason why I started wanting wanted to make sourdough. And then I would every once in a while, you know, look at the recipes for the like actual way, the authentic way to make sourdough. And then I would be like, no, I'm not gonna do that. That's 24 hours of my life. I'm not gonna do that. I'll just keep making it this way. And so I um one day I just um I I don't really actually know what happened, but I think through I think I just got tired of making sourdough for other people and just resentful that I couldn't eat it. And even though it was easy, I couldn't eat this sourdough that I had originally started to make because I wanted to eat it. And I just started getting careless, right, with making the sourdough. And I know you're probably thinking, well, how much more careless can you get than just dumping ingredients in a bread maker? But I I set the bread maker up, you know, everybody was asking for the sourdough. I dumped the ingredients in, I I closed the lid, turned it on, and then I left because that's what you can do, right? When you're in the breadmaker, and I left the house, and my middle child was home at the time. And I went and ran errands for several hours uh with my other children. And I came home to a very distraught child who was scared and kind of like locked in his room because uh I guess while I was gone, he had heard this loud uh shaking, rumbling sound, and then this huge boom. And he thought somebody was breaking in the house or there was an explosion outside or gunfire, I don't know. But he was scared, and so the whole time I was gone, he had kept himself in the room, in his room, because he was scared. And lo and behold, what we discovered it was was that the bread maker had become off balance because of how carelessly I dumped the ingredients in, and it just walked itself right off the counter onto the floor in this like cycle where it's agitating and meeting the bread. And so then and there, that period of me making sourdough was over because the bread maker was broken and um had to just throw everything away, and that was it. I was like, well, I guess that's my sign. I'm done making sourdough. And so I threw my babies out. Because if you also have never made sourdough, you also, for some reason, I don't know, I acquired so many babies while I was making sourdough. I had a lot of them. I guess I didn't want to discard anything. And anyway, regardless, I threw all my babies out, just dumped it all, cleaned the whole process out, and gave up. I just no more. We I just went back to buying store bought bread from my family. And that I gave up for maybe two years, two or three years. And then a friend of mine gifted me a loaf of sourdough bread that she had made, homemade, the real way, in the 24-hour process way, fermented way. And she said, You should try this because this is this doesn't upset my stomach. And I'm like, oh, like I I don't really want to, but now I'm like intrigued. So I take this loaf of bread home and I eat a small piece this time just to try it out. You know, maybe I won't get violently ill, but just a little ill. I try out a small piece and I wait uh several days and I don't get sick. And then I try out a little bit bigger piece and I wait a few days and I don't get sick. And then eventually I try a whole piece of this homemade sourdough bread and I don't get sick. And I call my friend, I said, Did you make this with special flour? Did you? She said, No, I just made it the traditional way you make sourdough. And I said, Hmm, okay. She said, I have a baby, I have a starter. If you would like to try again. Uh so I got a starter, yeah. And actually, no, I didn't get a starter from this friend. I got a starter from a different friend. And um, and I I said, Okay, I'm gonna try it the real way this time, the authentic way, because I don't have the bread maker anymore. So I buy all the things, right? There's stuff you have to buy. I had to buy a Dutch oven and I had to have a scale, and I had to um buy, you know, uh different mixing and cutting tools and tea towels and you know, all the things. So I invested in the whole process, and I decided I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna really figure it out. So I I I I found a time that worked for me, and it was when I was home from uh for winter break, and I had two weeks off from work, and I thought this would be a good time to try out this process because I could at least, you know, just see what it's like uh to make a real loaf of sourdough. And so I put aside the time, I feed my starter, I find a recipe that's for beginners, and it's you know, it's it's a learning curve, let me tell you. It's a lot of watching videos and just trying things out and learning new lingo like stretch and fold and um bulk fermentation and things like that. And so I had to look up words and look up phrases, and it was a whole process just before I even started to make my first loaf. So once I thought I had it kind of figured out, right? And I was I'm like, okay, Lindsay, you just gotta do it. You just gotta do the process and just learn as you go, right? The time for preparation is over. And so I I I I picked a day where I had the whole day and I get started, right? And the first process is actually fairly easy. I got my starter going, and then I mixed the ingredients, and I used my kitchen aid mixer with the dough hook, and that helped um a lot because I didn't have to mix the ingredients by hand. Uh, and so um, yeah, so I get to this part where you have to what they call stretch and fold, and you have to do that three times with like 30 minutes in between. And so I start like stretching and folding, but the dough is like really sticky, and I get like it's getting all over me. So I I lot but I made it through. I made it through these stretch and folds, and then it's time to like let it ferment and rise on the wherever, on the counter or stove or whatever. So I let that happen. Everything's going very smoothly, and I'm like, okay, well, now you know, it's just kind of like now you just wait, right, for this thing to to rise. And so about six o'clock at night, it's ready to then you take this dough that's risen, and you have to transfer it from this bowl into this other bowl with a tea towel, and kind of do this like fold it in on itself. It's hard to explain. But, anyways, you have to transfer it from this bowl to this bowl with the tea towel, and then that's the bowl you put in the fridge. It's a whole process. Well, I decide to do this. The timer went off at like six o'clock at night, and that's when everybody decides to start cooking dinner. That's a normal time to cook dinner. So my husband's in the kitchen, and my in-laws were there at the time, and my mother-in-law's helping with dinner, and my son's there with his girlfriend, and they're trying to figure out some light that burnt out in the house, and my daughter's asking me questions, and I'm trying to read the instructions or watch the video. And long story short, I I just decide to go for it and I just scoop out the dough with my hands, with my dry hands, just scoop out this ball of dough, which just then just sticks to everything. It sticks to my hands, it sticks to the bowl, it sticks everywhere. It's just like, ugh, and I can't get it to release from the bowl, it just stuck to the bowl. And so I'm I'm yelling for my husband to help me, but he's helping my son fix this light, and my mother-in-law's cooking dinner, and there's nobody who could help me, and I just like lost it a little bit. I almost just threw the whole thing away. But then I just took a few breaths, and my husband came over and helped me, and I got this sticky mess of dough into the tea towel bowl, and then I just shoved it in the fridge, and I'm like, oh. Gosh, this is not gonna work. This is like this is a failed attempt, and I was so frustrated. Well, the next process is just waiting in the fridge overnight. You just let it do its thing overnight in the fridge. And so I, you know, cleaned everything up and I would go to bed. And the next morning I'm a little anxious because I'm like, oh, like this is not gonna work. And it's just gonna be I just wasted 24 hours of my time of my life making a failed loaf of sourdough. So I open up the fridge and I take it out, and it's this perfect ball of dough. And it was almost like a miracle. Like I don't know how it happened, but it was just this perfect ball of dough, and I just was able to take the towel out and dump it into my Dutch oven and bake my first loaf of sourdough. And it was good, it was delicious. Everybody loved it, it worked out, it was almost like magic. Um, and so then I felt like okay, I could do this, I can I can make this sourdough, and so I needed the process to be a little bit more efficient, and so I looked for different ways to make it a little more efficient, and I had to buy a few more tools, but in the end, I became a person who makes sourdough loaves, like the authentic way, and I can eat them. I can eat them because they've gone through the whole process of fermenting and rising, and through the fermentation process, it eats up the gluten. Um, and so I have a loaf of bread that is safe for me to eat. And so now I've been making, I think I've made, I don't know, 10 or 12 loaves since December of actual sourdough through this whole process. And I've really learned how to fit it into my schedule and like when to feed my, I have it on a schedule now, when to feed my starter, when to make the dough, do the stretch and fold, be able to let it rise, let it sleep in the fridge overnight, and then bake a loaf of bread in the morning. I have it all kind of down, down pat, and and it's really not hard anymore. And uh I've even branched out with my discard, you know, instead of making more babies, I use my discard to make, you know, sweet bread and um and pancakes and uh a variety of other things. We're gonna, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna attempt to make Irish soda bread uh for St. Patrick's Day this weekend this week. So I've even branched out and started to get creative with what to do with my discards. Well, this last weekend when I was making my sourdough, I was really looking thinking back about my time, my journey through this process of making sourdough. And I was like, you know, it's just really kind of like life. There's so many lessons I learned through this journey to make sourdough that really mirror lessons in life. And there's a lot that can be learned from this process. So I tell you this story about my journey so that I can bring it back to what we can learn about life and the journey of life through this, my experience in making sourdough. And so the first lesson that I thought about uh that mirrors life is that there's no easy way through it, right? I didn't think I could actually do it authentically. I didn't think I could follow the authentic process. Either I didn't have time, or I uh didn't know how, or it seemed too complicated, or it was too hard. And I just wanted the easy way out, right? I just wanted to find an easy way to make a loaf of sourdough. And I did. I found it, but it wasn't authentic, it wasn't actual sourdough, it was just bread that I made in my bread maker that wasn't fermented. Um, and it had the sourdough flavor, but it wasn't really sourdough. And I couldn't eat it because I it wasn't real. Um, and even if my family liked it and enjoyed it, it still wasn't fulfilling, right? And I became uh angry and irritated that I had to do this because and I couldn't even eat it, I couldn't even enjoy it, right? And in the back of my head, it was like, well, Lindsay, just do it the authentic way, just do it the real way. Learn how to do it, go through the process. And I'm like, nope, I don't have time for that. It's too hard. There's no way I could ever figure that out. I'm just gonna stick with the easy way, even though it's not fulfilling, and it doesn't bring me joy, and you know, I and I don't get any benefit from it. So that's my my my first lesson in life was that or the or the first way I linked it to a lesson in life is it's just like life. There's no easy way through it, right? Well, there is there are easy ways through life, right? You can take the easy road, but you're bypassing all the other things that life has to offer. You're bypassing the authenticity and the realness and all the the things we're here to experience for the easy way, for the I guess staying cocooned, staying in your house, staying, not really going out and reaching for anything, not taking risks, not experiencing all the things, the adventure and the joy and and the beauty of life, because you just are taking the easy path, right? If you take the harder path, you you have to learn some things, you have to go through some lessons, you have to experience things, and you might get stress and you might get trauma and you might life will impact you, and you'll have to heal from that, and you might feel grief and you might feel sadness, but you'll also feel the adventure and the joy and the fulfillment, right? And if you take the easy road, you don't feel any of that, you just bypass all of that and and live your life. I don't know, not doing any of that. And and you have to question whether that's fulfilling, if that's palatable, if you can consume that type of life. And I couldn't. I couldn't consume this type of life. So I had to figure out how to take the other path, right? That was less simple. And then the second lesson that I linked to life is that the path will always write itself. I became disenfranchised, I became angry, I became frustrated with making this fake sourdough in my bread maker. And I maybe put that energy out into the world. Like I just don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to, this is not fulfilling anymore for me to make this sourdough. And by, yes, by my own actions and my own carelessness, I basically sabotaged any future way I could make sourdough by leaving the bread maker on the counter and letting it, you know, whatever. But but there was also a little bit, I feel like, of divine intervention where, yes, I did, I was careless and didn't put my whole heart into that loaf of sourdough. But also then just the randomness that that that bread maker just walked itself right off the counter and broke. And it was almost just this like this like divine intervention that, well, that that phase of making sourdough is over. You cannot do it this way anymore unless you buy another bread maker. But then why would you do that? Because you don't even like doing it anyway. And so I do feel like that was a lesson, that's a lesson in life as well, is that the path will always write itself, right? We we will go through life. Um, and even if you take the easy road, even if you know you spend your life taking the easy road, there will be times when you will, when the divine or you will make choices that will push you into the more difficult path. You can't get through life just on the easy path. There will be things that happen, life will still happen to you unless you live in a cave remote, away from everybody, and have no interaction. Life will still happen and you will still have to live through some things. And so you will, even if you're off course now, you will your path will always you will always find your way back onto the path that you are intended to be on for life, right? And a lot of times sometimes it's very abrupt. There are huge changes that happen in life that right your course, that put you back on the path to living authentically. And sometimes they're abrupt, like a breadmaker walking off the counter and breaking, um, like a death, or a loss of a job, or um, you know, having children, or uh, you know, so many things that can happen in life that switch you from this easy course to the more difficult and the more authentic course. And that's just life. Like I said, unless you live in a remote cabin or cave somewhere and have no interaction, then I would even argue if you're actually living life, if that's if that's where you're at. But regardless, that was the path for me, writing itself was breaking the bread maker. And then even when the path writes itself, right? It can be abrupt, it can be disruptive, it can be very um scary and upsetting and sad. And you some you have to grieve that. You have to grieve that you you're no longer on the path you were on, but you're on now on this path, right? And you have to let go of that old path so that you can move on forward in the new path, in the more authentic path, which will always be more rewarding. I promise you. The authentic path, even though it's harder, is always more rewarding. And so that's what I did. I I had to take time off. I'm like, screw this, I'm done with the sourdough, never doing it again. And I went off and did different things, right? And then eventually the path came back around, and maybe I was ready this time. Maybe it was just different, maybe I was more motivated, I don't know. But a few years later, sourdough came back in my life, and I felt ready to take it on again, but in the more authentic way. So my path righted itself. The third lesson is that life is messy, and no one or thing is perfect. So much like making sourdough the authentic way, we also must get messy in life. We must also let the messes happen. There's I still haven't found a clean way to make sourdough. If flour goes everywhere, it's it is just a messy process. And so is life, right? There's no like you don't get out of life clean. Uh, you you you have to get a little messy, you have to learn as you go. Um, a lot, most of it is trial and error and just figuring things out as you go, and making mistakes and learning lessons, and maybe educating yourself or looking for better ways or more efficient ways to do things, but it's all just this process of being imperfect and just trying, right? And when I was staring at that ball of dough in that bowl, thinking, how am I going to get this ball of dough from this bowl onto this tea towel? I could have been paralyzed. I could have just stood there and just given up right there and not ever made my first loaf. And then I just said, I'm just gonna have to get messy. I'm just gonna have to dig my hands in and like this sticky mess and like just figure out how to get this ball of dough into this tea towel. And then also, once I really just dug in and and and got messy, then I I panicked because I couldn't do it by myself, and I had to ask for help and had to wait. I had to be patient for the person who could help me to arrive. And so, just like in life, sometimes things get really messy and we get stuck and sticky and we we can't move forward, and we have to ask for help, and sometimes it's not immediate. Sometimes we also have to be patient and let the help arrive, right? Whether it's from the divine or from a human or or somebody else on earth. Like we just we have to first allow ourselves to be part of the mess and allow our lives to get messy, and then we also have to allow ourselves to wait for the help and and and and it does arrive, it will arrive. Uh, we don't have to do this all on our own. And then, yeah, and then going through that process of getting messy, waiting for the help, I, you know, ended up with this beautiful loaf of sourdough, and you too will end up with a beautiful, you know, life that is fulfilling. And even though it's been messy and hard, at the end it will be beautiful if you go through, you know, if you go through the whole process, the authentic process. And then the last one is that no one can tell you how to do the process. Nobody can tell you how to live your life, and nobody can tell you how to make a successful loaf of sourdough. And yes, there are instruct there are people who can instruct you. There's education to be had, there's things that you can read and learn and ask other people for uh information about, right? You like I said, you don't have to go through it alone. But the experience is all yours, and you are experiencing it, not anyone else. And so, yes, there are there is advice and there is opinion and there is education and instruction, but in the end, you have to make the the decisions for yourself, right? You can't let anybody um you you have to be the director of your life, um, you have to take in the information, make it make sense for yourself, and then make choices based on that and own them. And so now that I've I've learned this through sourdough, because now that I've learned and I have my process down, well, my husband's really interested and intrigued. And so he's been watching these uh reels from people. You know, you click on one reel and then you get 75 reels about the same thing, right? So he's been just it comes up in his feed, these people making sourdough, and they're they're doing all different things, right? They're all doing their process a different way. It's similar, but they've found what works for them and they're sharing it right with the world. Here's a tip here, here's a tip here, like this is how you can do this, and blah, blah, blah. Well, now, even though I'm like 20 loaves in, now he's suddenly in the kitchen when I'm making it, telling me, Well, have you tried this? Now, when you measure your flour, now are you using grams or ounces? Now, how much water are you using? Like he's asking me all these questions because he's hearing these tips from other people. And really, I'm like, Well, this is a little late because I've already figured out my process. I don't, there's nothing to be changed about my process. I I I researched it, I figured out a way that works for me, and this is the way I make sourdough. And you know, he's like, but this person makes it this way, and this person makes it this way, and I'm like, yeah, because everybody makes it their own way. You have to make the process work for you. Just like in life, right? And I I appreciate all of their opinions, all of these experts who have all these different opinions. But if I took every single one of their opinions and tried to work it into my process, I wouldn't be successful, right? I have to take what makes sense to me, the education and the tips and the things I'm learning that make sense to me, and make it make sense in my process, right? And that's the same as in life, right? It's it's not that you don't listen to the other opinions or you don't hear them. It's that if they don't make sense, don't do them, right? If somebody gives you advice that doesn't make sense to your life because they don't understand your life or your process, don't take that advice. You know, find something else, find a different piece of advice or a different lesson or a different learning that makes sense to you, or just trust yourself. Trust that you have a process and you are making choices for your own life based on the information that makes sense to you. And and and and yeah, you just once you have a process, you don't it don't if it's not broken, don't fix it, right? Don't look for ways to do something different if what you're doing is working and bringing you joy and fulfillment. And so that was that was the fourth and final lesson is that people will tell you how to live life. People will tell you and give you, have opinions and give you advice, and some of it will be good and make sense to you, and some of it will be horrible, and you can dismiss it. And regardless, it's it's all on you to decide how you want to proceed with life. So that is my story about my process making sourdough and what it taught me about life, and I wanted to pass that along to you, and hopefully it was helpful, and maybe just a little bit of a fun break from what we've been talking about, and maybe it's encouraged you to try to make sourdough. I don't know, maybe not. Maybe you're like, hell no, Lindsay, I don't have time for that, and that's fine too. But maybe it's also helped you learn a little bit about your journey in life as well. So I will go ahead and end there with this episode. Um remember to check out the show notes with the links to those retreats if you feel called to come retreat with me and some wonderful people in the next few years. And yeah, I hope you have um. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next time. I'll go ahead and close with light in me as a direct reflection of the light, and all of you have a wonderful week.