Michelin-Starred Chef Reveals What Restaurant Leaders Must Do Differently Today

What does it take to build a world-class restaurant team?

Well...in this video, award-winning chef Philip Tessier shares why the future of hospitality isn't just about creating great food, it's about developing great people.

Chef Tessier discusses leadership, ownership mentality, innovation, Michelin-star standards, training systems, guest experience, and why the best restaurant cultures are built by investing in people rather than simply managing them. He also explains how top-performing organizations create environments where team members can thrive, grow, and eventually become leaders themselves.

From developing future chefs to creating a culture that attracts exceptional talent, this conversation is packed with lessons for restaurant owners, operators, managers, and hospitality professionals looking to build stronger teams and better businesses.

Philip Tessier is one of the most accomplished chefs in America. He made history in 2015 as the first American chef to stand on the podium at the prestigious Bocuse d'Or in Lyon, France, often referred to as the "Olympics of Cooking", earning a Silver Medal for Team USA. 

He later coached Team USA to its first-ever Gold Medal victory at the Bocuse d'Or in 2017. Tessier previously served as Executive Sous Chef at the three-Michelin-starred The French Laundry and has worked at some of the world's most celebrated restaurants, including Per Se and Le Bernardin. He is also the author of *Chasing Bocuse*, which chronicles Team USA's historic journey to international culinary success.

In this interview, we discuss:

• Building a culture people want to be part of
• Why ownership mindset starts with leadership
• Developing future restaurant leaders
• Michelin-star standards vs. real-world hospitality
• Training systems that create consistency
• Innovation and adapting to changing guest expectations
• Creating memorable guest experiences
• Why the best restaurants focus on people first

Whether you're a restaurant owner, manager, chef, or aspiring leader, this conversation offers practical insights on building teams that perform at the highest level.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Kind of took from you know Will Gadir's book and Daniel Human, you know, kind of saying like we want to be the world's best restaurant, it's just like put it out there in the world. And it's like, I was like, we need a goal like this, but we need something we'll never achieve. We just said, you know, that why don't we just say we want to be the most impactful restaurant group in the country? And like we'll never know if we achieve that. And it's something we'll always be in pursuit of. And so we're gonna have a lot more impact in our craft, in hospitality, if we are sending people out into the world than keeping them here. If we can create a culture here that people can thrive in and grow and learn in, and we're giving them the tools to actually be self-sufficient on their own. I mean, I worked in restaurants where it was amazing and you became an amazing cook, but like no idea how the financials work, no idea how to really be a manager, no idea how to create their own systems. They were successful because they they were good at that style of service food system and structure, and then they go out on their own, and it's so different to build it for yourself. Investing in people so that they want to invest back in us, but we're also sending them out in the world to over time, you know, be able to have an impact on a broader scale. Like nobody talks about that. There's a lot of naivety in the wine business, just like there is in restaurant business. Like, oh, I love wine, I'm gonna open a winery, you know, and it's like, yeah, it doesn't work that way. But I think it was, I think it's also like it's a combination of yeah, like over overzealous overproduction, and then I think it's also like people are just stuck in the way of doing things and like the world's sh evolving, and if you're not evolving with it, it's gonna, you're not you're not gonna survive, you know. So for me, it's like it's not great. I wouldn't wish this would be the way it is in the moment, but like it feels like a necessary evil to like create that shift, you know. And you see it in the restaurant business, you know, whether it's you know shifting from like all tasting menus to like other things and like the balance of you know what what the guest wants, you know, what what the customer is is is looking for. And you know, if you're so stubborn and pigeonholed and you're only in doing things, like the world's gonna move right past you.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, it's uh it's and it's innovation. I talk about that a lot, like you know being innovative and the way you run your business and the way you see things. I was you know who Janet Zuccherini is? She owns a couple, she owns a couple restaurants in LA, but she's a big restaurantur in Canada. She has like probably the most successful restaurateur in Canada. I was talking to her and she made a good point because she was saying, you know, obviously I'm obsessed with hospitality, so are you. But she was saying like that mid-restaur, you know, where it's kind of like you're getting service basically, food's pretty good, you know, it's consistent. Ambiance is good, consistent. Like you could survive as a restaurant, make a living, you know, and stuff like that. But those restaurants are like going to, I think, like kind of what you're talking about, those restaurants are getting purged too. Where eventually it's like that mediocre kind of experience is just gonna go. Yeah. Because it's like people are just spending less.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

You're spending less, and if they're spending more, they expect more. Yep. You know, and they want that, like, okay, if I'm spending this, then it's gonna be, you know, like you get reviews here, like, well, I expect more from a one Michelin star restaurant. And it's like, I haven't been a lot of one Michelin star restaurant. Yeah, it's a it's a wide range. I think it's my biggest frustration on the Michelin guide is like, you know, two and three are pretty distinct. You know, we have like 60 one-star restaurants, and you know, when we first opened this, you know, we first got our star here, it was like, okay, we just want to be a good one-star restaurant, big restaurant, and then we got on the stage with like everybody who was a one-star restaurant, and you're like, you guys have a start, you have a start. Like, we like we're at a like you know, it's just different, there's so many different styles in that range that like it, it it's a very non-definitive category, other than just like there's a standard of a certain level of quality of food and service, you know, and so yeah, it just kind of struck me that day, like in a way I didn't expect it to.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, you're like, what is uh what is the expectation there? Like, what are you trying to say? Because yeah, it's it's we've been in a one-star restaurant uh Michelin star restaurant. So when we're like, hmm, yeah, wouldn't have pegged this as like a different experience than uh, you know, just a really well-ran restaurant. It wasn't like, oh my gosh, right? Like, I think that's the problem too, is the facade, not facade, but the um aura of like a Michelin star. People go for the first time, especially, they're probably almost like, what are they expecting, you know? Yeah because we were talking before this a lot about you know developing your people. And Wolga Dara, you know, would uh one thing I like about his book is it is about innovation because he was, you know, he has that story where he was like, Yeah, I was talking to a guest and I had my elbows on the table, I forgot his hands on the table, and he was like leaning over talking to the guest in the server at 11 minutes, and Park was like, Hey, you can't put your hands on the table. And Wil Godera's like, why? And he's like, because it's not good etiquette at a fine dining restaurant. He's like, Yeah, but I'm just I had to get closer, I couldn't hear what he was saying. And he was like, we just can't. And Wilgadera's like, my number one thing is to like guest experience, right? If I put my hand on the table to do that, then I don't think that's a problem. So it's like breaking down those boundaries, you know. How do you see that from your point of view? Because you were saying that, you know, you've come from very um high-performing kitchens uh that are traditionally cutthroats, if you will. How do you think of how are you looking at it differently as a operator?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing for me with you know the way the world is now and like you know, stepping out of an environment where you you become a product of your environment, you know, generally speaking, wherever you are, right? Like you conform to like this is the culture, this is this is the punch we're all drinking, and this is the you know, this is the way you manage, right? And if you don't manage this way, then you're not you're not one of us. You know, it kind of becomes that sort of, you know, like the military almost, you know, it's like you gotta you gotta become one of the bros, you know, kind of feeling. And so, you know, for me now it's it's more about like, okay, the first question I ask is like, who do I want to be as a person, right? Like, like what do I want people to say about who I am individually, undefined by like what I achieved, right? And like that's that's like step one of like I can be in control of my own life, you know, and who I want to be as a person, and and then I and then I define how I run what I do based on that. And so, you know, I want to have a restaurant where just people love to work here. You know, I think somebody once said, like, you know, a great manager's defined by somebody, you know, when when they walk in, everyone stiffens up and then they smile, you know, and it's like you have that sense of like respect and authority, and like people are like, you know, you're checking your station when the chef walks in, make sure it's tight, but then they're happy to see you. Right. You know, they're not like terrified, like, oh my god, life's gonna suck now. You know, like, oh my god, chef's here, you know. Yeah, and and so you know, having that, you know, level of respect for one another, you know, we we genuinely invest in our team. You know, my my goal is that somebody who works here feels like I have their best interest in mind. You're not a cog in the wheel, you're not just here to like get us one step further down the path, but like, you know, and and and we started changing the narrative. Like, we talk a lot about what's your story, what do you want to do here, when we hire people, but you know, we do reviews with the team, and and you know, you know, now I ask them, I'm like, when do you want to leave here? You know, like nobody talks about that. It's like this, yeah, this like unspoken thing. And I'm like, I want to talk about when you leave here because I want to be a part of your future in this restaurant and outside of this restaurant. And you know, we we kind of, you know, I kind of took from you know Will Gadera's book and Daniel Hum, you know, kind of saying, like, we want to be the world's best restaurant. It's just like put it out there in the world. And it's like, I was like, we need a goal like this, but we need something we'll never achieve because I don't want to break up, you know, and so it's like we just said, you know, that why don't we just say we want to be the most impactful restaurant group in the country? And like we'll never know if we achieve that. And it's something we'll always be in pursuit of. And so, you know, for me, impact, we're gonna have a lot more impact in our craft, in hospitality, if we are sending people out into the world than keeping them here. And so, if if we can create a culture here that people can thrive in and grow and learn in, and we're giving them the tools to actually be self-sufficient on their own. I mean, I worked in restaurants where it was amazing and you became an amazing cook, but like you I watched so many of my friends leave, no idea how the financials work, no idea how to really be a manager, no idea how to create their own systems, you know. But they're just they were successful because they they were good at that style of service food system and and structure. And then they go out on their own, and it's so different to build it for yourself. And so, you know, for me, for me, it's really kind of investing in people so that they want to invest back in us, but we're also sending them out in the world to over time, you know, be able to have an impact on a broader scale. And so, you know, the step one of that is they have to believe in what you're doing, you know, and they have to they have to have a similar mindset, you know. When people come here and they're only focused on checking the boxes and being here for long enough and those kinds of things, you you know, everybody loses, you know, and so it's it's taken us time to kind of build that that genre, that culture here where it feels like, you know, for the first time we could kind of finally have a mindset, you know, and a culture that is coming from both sides instead of just like this is the culture, you know, and it's really like we're the younger, this like younger generation of people, you know, I think for millennia people have been like this younger generation, you know, and like I mean, honestly, this younger generation, it's kind of inspiring to me because they're super honest, they're super vocal. Um, you know, the only thing I struggle with is the amount of feedback they ask for. And I'm like, the feedback I got was not getting yelled at, you know, like if you weren't getting yelled at, you're doing great.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah, that was a feedback feedback you needed.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah, and so it's like, you know, but I just tell my team, I'm like, look, they want the feedback five minutes a week minimum. Every Sushev is like you, you this is your side of the kitchen, this is your side of the kitchen. You come to a sous chef meeting, I expect to know what's happening with everybody in your team. And just that little bit of nuance gives them a voice to echo back, and you know, it's amazing how much it shifts when people feel like they have a voice in their herd and you're not just being, you know, directed at.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, and I always say, like, when I when I talk to leadership teams, I would I always say start with spending 30 minutes a day or a week, I'm sorry, or 30 minutes a day with your team. And that could be, you know, five minutes here, five minutes there, um, pre-shifts, whatever it is, but just you know, if like if you're looking over their shoulder and being like, hey, let me can I can I do you mind if I give you some feedback, right? Or in that moment, um, or it could just be talking to them, right? Just, hey, how's it going? Like, what's what's what's what's new? What's you know? Um, I also like to have, like you said, I like the way you frame it. I think that's awesome. Is like when do you want to leave? Like it's great, and what are your goals? Like, that's what I always talk about. Like, I always say it's two things. It's one is like, what do you want to do for your future? Like, what is your ultimate goal and your ultimate dream? If you can know that, and then be able to connect what they're doing now into that, even if it's, hey, I'm working for you as a chef, as a you know, let's say uh uh whatever, uh, you know, uh a chef, like a line cook, but I eventually want to be um, you know, uh painter, like I want to be an artist, right? Okay, awesome. I can't teach you how to paint, right? But I can teach you some skills that will contribute to that success of that business or that of that, you know, whatever you you know, to be successful in that field. If you can connect those dots and you can have more buy-in from them, but also like what is your goal here? What can I teach you more to learn? I think what you just said is great because learn the business aspect of it. I tell people like the restaurant industry is the only industry where like you could learn the inside and out of how to run a business and not have to go to school. Yeah, right? You can learn it, and it's one of the most difficult businesses to run. So if you can learn run this, you can pretty much run any business and to be able to learn that skill set, but you're gonna have to do some extra work. So I think giving those tools is super, super uh important.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah, you don't you don't see that much where it's like I mean, we we bring the whole team together and we're like, these are the financials, this is the PL. Like, this is how the PL works, this is what that means, you know. And like unfortunately, we don't get to do it as often as we want, but you know, my goal is like you leave here and you can be your own chef. Like you can run your own own restaurant, and it's not you're not gonna be like, I didn't learn, I didn't learn that.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

You know, but also there's no like part of life where you're gonna be like, ah, that that was I didn't need to learn that, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

It'll it'll always, there's some way it'll kind of benefit you to do. I thought I didn't need chemistry in high school because I'm gonna be a chef. Yeah, now it's all chemistry. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. It's math, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I don't need to learn this stuff, and then you're like, oh, I see, this is more than just math. Um but you talked about something today, which I would love because obviously you're a very accomplished chef, right? And and you kind of got to a point where you're like, I checked some boxes. Like it seemed like, and tell me if I'm wrong, that it didn't give you the fulfillment that you wanted, or it's kind of like, okay, what do I do now, or what do I go from here? It seemed like you kind of came to a realization, like, man, I really, you know, the checking boxes thing was cool. That was like a kind of a nice North Star. Got there, but now I'm really realizing in my time that like developing people, my people underneath me, is like much more fulfilling. There's something much more like something better that about versus me just getting better all the time, creating people that make them better all the time, or creating systems or whatever, or you know, leadership that could get gets people better all the time. But tell me about that a little bit from your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I don't know. So I I mean I did BocoStore, right? And and like I think there's I mean, I've never been a part of anything quite the same. You know, you you I've worked in amazing restaurants, worked with amazing people on teams, but there's such a hyper focus, and like when you get a group of people together who are so basically just willing to do whatever it takes. And like I think the benefit of the Boco Store is like there's it there's a finite end to this, you know, like you know, like this is our last service. In fact, it's our only service, you know. But when when we build those teams and we bring people together, you know, there's a sense of whatever it takes attitude. And I mean, you're there, you know, 6:30 in the morning in the gym together until 11 o'clock at night, and you know, I'm the supposed to be the leader of the team, and I'm like, are we going to the gym tomorrow? And the team's like, we're going, Chef. Like, oh, okay. You know, like like the leadership shifts because everybody's supporting one another. And I think that's the high I'm in pursuit of, you know, ever since then, is that level of everybody's rallied around each other, everybody's focused on the goal, and nothing else, nothing else matters. Like the difficult moments, you know. I mean, when when COVID hit here, you know, it seemed silly, but you're like, like, we did Boku's door, and like my stuff was stuck in customs for four days, and I never knew if I was gonna compete. And like my my come like just bifted in France training, and like, you know, just multiple layers upon layers of challenges and things, and like having to change a dish two weeks before you left for France, and you know, just all the things and then competing on a world stage for five and a half hours and you get one shot at it, you know, and and and you just build a sort of like mental tenacity and and fortitude, you know, that that kind of you know, when people see competitions and stuff like this from like I'm not a competition chef. Like that was the first competition I ever did, you know, and basically the only one I've done since then. Um, unless you count television, which is more entertainment. You know, and it's and it's basically the idea of you know, I why I think I was successful is that is you know the ability to focus on a goal and build a team and work to your strengths and know your weaknesses, you know, and I think for me now it's everything I do now is is about building that team. You know, building a team and doing it on a scale now on a day where it's like we have we have tonight service and tomorrow's service and next year's service and the restaurant that's coming two years from now and those kinds of things. And so it it's more challenging in its own way of like you're building something to last and be sustainable. Um and you know, I I'm I'm fascinated with with people, and they're the most rewarding and also most frustrating part of what we do because it's just the unpredictable nature of you know, are they are they gonna turn the corner, are they gonna buy into it? And there's nothing better than watching somebody who didn't believe in themselves get to a point where they're shocked at what they're doing. And like that is the most rewarding moment for me. And so, you know, the accolades of achieving things, like yes, we all love it, and yes, we all want to be in in those moments, and you know, some of it is you know, personally fulfilling, some of it is, you know, even just like Michelin, you know, it's like it drives our business. You know, a business we had 600 reservations in two days, like after that, and like our best year ever, a year later. And people want to move from New York to California, they're like, I want to do the Michelin star thing in California, and like if we don't have a star, it must be something wrong, you know. So it's it puts you on the radar for team, you know, and staffing, and uh that actually has been the one of the biggest value assets and ads for us. So I think the ideas behind you know what we're doing here now is really about attracting great people, attracting great talent, but attracting people who want to be a part of something together. And um, you know, the feeling you see when people walk in and they're they're willing to work and they still have a smile on their face, you know, on the hard days, like you you don't see that very often. And that carries you through a lot, you know, and you feel like you're doing the hard things together.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

You know, you're talking about ownership mindset, right? When you're saying, you know, the moments where you're like, I'm the chef and I'm saying are we doing it tomorrow? And they're like, No, we're doing it tomorrow, right? It's like that ownership mindset where they're owning it just as much as you are. In fact, they're kind of pushing you just as much as you're pushing them to kind of have that common goal. And people always talk about that when we work with companies, they're always how do we get them ownership mindset? Why don't they have ownership mindset? I want my team to have ownership mindset, but the problem is that they trade, they they I see that they try and train on the mechanics of ownership mindset, right? Like this is what you should be doing. You should be doing this, this is what you should be doing, it should be done like this. And it lacks two things it lacks clarity, which you talked about earlier when we were discussing, like, you know, it's all locks up and says, they're not doing that thing. And you're like, Did you train them how to do that thing? And did you make it really clear? And did you did you tell them what happens if they don't do that thing and all that stuff, or did you just randomly kind of voice it to them one time and then now you're mad they're not doing it every time? So there's that there's that lack of clarity, but there's also a lack of motivation. Like you have to motivate them to want, like you said, to want them to want this stuff, right? And to want them to care and want them to be there. And and I think that's what leadership is versus management, right? Leadership is so important because leadership is leading. You're leading people, you're getting them bought into a dream, to a goal, motivating them to where they want to do these things. I always make this analogy. Did you ever see the movie The Breakup? Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Anistan.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

I think a while ago, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, it was a long time ago. There's a scene where he's on the couch playing video games and she's doing the dishes, and she goes, Can you can you can you do the help me do the dishes? And he's like, Oh, playing video games. And she's like, seriously? And then he gets up, he's like, Fine. She goes, No, no, no, I I want you to want to do the dishes. And he's like, Yeah, so I said I'll do them. She goes, No, no, I want you to want to do the dishes. He goes, I yeah, I've said I'll do them. She goes, No, no, and you know, we know what she's saying, right? It's a funny scene, you know, man versus woman kind of thing, but it's that's true though. It's like we want our employees to want to do these things. If we have to make them do them, you know, begrudgingly, it becomes a whole nother dynamic, the whole cult culture, everything. And then it's like all of a sudden they don't get it, they're not bought in. It's Gen Z, right? It's this freaking Matt generation, which I love what you said because it's so true. It's always our parents, yeah. I walked up the hill and I pulled the school bus and barefoot snow and all this, you know, and now it's like, so it's always gonna be that way, right? I always tell people like when you blame Gen Z, it's like being, you know, being late and blaming on the weather. Like technically, sure, but like also you could have left earlier when you knew it was raining outside. You know, with that being said, like what is your strategy on getting them to because you talk about that, right? How do you get them to want this stuff, you know, to want to do these things?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, I mean, I think the first step happens before they even start here, you know, and it and it's really, you know, people complain about like oh, staffing and this and that. I'm like, look, if we if we want to be fully staffed, we have to be the best. If there's six cooks in America, three of them need to want to come here, you know, because we're the best out there. And so making ourselves, I mean, we we spend a lot of effort and time, and I'm I'm engaged with my team on like social media and like what we do here because that's how people see the world. I mean, I had an interview today, and it's like, what do you know about us? And it's like, well, just what I see on social media and what people have said, you know, and it's like, so this is our this is how people view us. We have to put time in there to be like, this is a creative place, this is a team-built place, this is about people, this is you know, here's our farm, like those kinds of things. So, you know, step one for me, I think Steve Jobs said, like, I've never been able to like you know convince someone to work hard who didn't want to work hard. Yes, you know, and it and it's like so getting the right person in the door and and putting them in the right role is is is absolutely step one. And like I'm super protective of the team here, and you know, we probably entered, I mean, we've hired 30 people in the last two months, bringing two businesses from five days to seven days, you know, and scaling over 100 employees now. And so, you know, it's how do I bring all of these people in and train them all and get them all and get the right people in the door? And you know, we it when you do that successfully, you have people who don't know the job but are excited to learn, you know, and I think you know, I'll use an example just like the other day. I you know, I'm I'm in the kitchen a little bit less running the kitchen, and my Sioux team's there, and like I'm in all the time with them, but you know, I'm I'm like mentoring them now and getting them to run things, and you know, I'm I don't work the stations with the cooks like I used to, but I will sometimes, you know, especially on a busy night. And I'm in there. And so, you know, I stepped into the the Fuite Mer station that we have with one of the new cooks. And you know, you could tell he was visibly like, oh my gosh, Chef's on my station. And I'm like, look, I'm here to help you. Like, I'm not here to take over, right? Like, this is whose station is this, right? Like, this is your station. And, you know, giving our team the mindset, like, you know, when we go to help a cook on the line, we're not like on the sous chef and push him out of the way. It's like, this is your station. I expect when I come over here, you tell me what you need. Right? And and giving the whole team the mindset of like, this is my station. This is my stuff. You know, when this came from the Koni team that prepped it in the morning and it comes under your station, like you're immediately saying that's my stuff. It's not, it's not their fault anymore. Like if you took that, put it on your station, and now you're in service with it. So, you know, our everything that we do along those lines is there's no blame involved, right? You're you're taking ownership now, it's your thing. If there's a problem, then you can address it outside of a pressure environment of service and getting that organized. And so it's a small kind of example, but like if we do that successfully over a year, year and a half period of time, I have a sous chef at the end of that. You know, I have somebody who understands the mindset of ownership, and when they're running a service in the restaurant, something goes wrong, and it was like, hey, that was my fault. You know, like that's what I say to people. Like, server comes back, I used to yell at them, like, what is this and that? Like back in the day, you know, now it's like, what do you need? Like, we can talk about why and how and whatever else. And if it's something they should know, I'll let them know. Like, that you have that information, you know, and like very rarely I won't answer the question or make it happen, but like generally it's helping everybody understand, like, we there are so many systems and structures and pieces in place here for you to be successful with that if you're not being successful, it's because you're not communicating the way that we built it. And so, I mean, I I told this young gentleman, I'm like, I'm gonna give you the charitable assumption that you're doing your best work every day you walk in the door. I just assume that about you the moment I see you here in this kitchen. But you're there, you can only do a finite amount of work, right? So if you have three hours of work and an hour and a half to do it on your prep list, there's no way you're gonna achieve that. So the recognition, like part of what we do with the team is like the recognition of what you can and can't do. And in most restaurants, it's like make it happen, figure it out. Don't talk to me, I'm too busy, right? Here it's you ask for help. And like I don't want to know at 4 55 before the doors open. Like you you knew that last night, right? You knew that two days ago, probably, right? And so the earlier you tell us there's an issue or a challenge, the better I can plan and the more options I have. Because I have 40 cooks here between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. At 5 p.m., I have 11. You know, and so I can solve all of these problems and challenges, and like giving them the opportunity to fail in a small window of like, I know I can fix this, but putting it on them to make those decisions, make those calls. And you know, as people work with us over six months a year, if I come to them and be like, Are you good? Do you need anything? And if I get that response, like I'm good, like I trust that answer. And if they tell me I need something, I know like I better help this person, or I'm gonna be feeling it later on tonight. So I think giving giving people a sense of pride in this is my station, you know, and this is my opportunity to own this. And and Chef's not expecting me to be a superhero and achieve something I can't do. He's just expecting me to like own this, communicate about what I need, and you know, I tell them, I'm like, when I come to you, I don't are you gonna be set up and they're like, Well, I gotta do this. I I don't need your whole practice. What do you need? You know, and I walk it through like when they first start, we walk through this is a five-minute job. How long does this take? 20-minute job. This is a 30-minute job. Okay, you have 40 minutes. So chef, can you do the 20-minute job and I'll be set up? That that's it. So the next time I come to them, like, what do you need? If somebody can do the chives, I'll be set up. Great, I will make sure the chives get done. And then we walk into service because the person who suffers when we're not ready for service is the guest.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

You know, and like that is we, you know, I think the the issue, the thing that I never got when I was coming up in the kitchens and my my my era was there's guests in the dining room. By the way, we're serving real people. Like it was so fascinating to me. Like, I had this like epiphany, like, as I've become a chef in here, and like now we have windows in the dining room, but like, I mean, I could I could probably think of like a year, year and a half of time where like I just cooked and was so focused on like what I was trying to do and where I was working and not getting yelled at that like you you forget there's guests, you know, these are these are people, and like this is about hospitality, and like you know, we we we've added hospitality as part of our core principles here because it's not just about the hospitality towards the guests, but you know, hospitality is like how we make others feel, right? And so, what is our hospitality towards each other? How do I make you feel if I'm working together with you? And um, you know, these these nuances of things that just were never talked about, you know, coming up in the culinary world. And so, you know, it's exciting for me to see people have, you know, we talked earlier about a big picture mindset. You know, they have a big picture mindset about my impact of my decision about not asking for help about chives can have a negative impact in on such a global scale, like because if we get behind in now the chef has to help me, well now the chef's not doing his job, and now we've added five minutes to this table and five minutes to that table, and now we don't make our turns, and now those guests are pissed off, and now you know now we're gonna seat the whole dining room all at once again, and all because we're not doing the jobs that we have the right way and communicating properly. And so when you explain that to a 19-year-old kid who's just trying to get chives done for service, you know, they go home at night just thinking about you know, this is much bigger than me just doing a station in a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

And and you know, if we want to build culinary leaders, like why don't we start at the beginning instead of waiting for them to become a stoo chef and like now you've done the line cook thing, I'm gonna teach you how to be a leader, you know, and so we we have young leaders all throughout our team who set the example of like, I know what it was like to be you. When I came through that world, it was like I know what it was like to be you, and it sucked, and now I'm gonna make you feel that way. Yeah, and now it's like I know what it was like to be you, and like I'm gonna help you not go through as much pain by me being here for you.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

You brought up a lot of good points. You got me thinking because I'm like, it's it's really important. I think even with windows and and stuff like that, you still forget sometimes, right? Because you're just so and that's one thing I always try and do is you know, work with teams and get them unsiloed because it's so important. Because I'll go, I I I always say, you know, if I walk into your kitchen right now and I ask your chefs what are the what's the most important thing? What is our number one goal? Are they all gonna give me the same answer? Is it if I ask your dishwasher that is he gonna give me the same answer? Because they should. Yeah, because we have one goal, right? And however you want to phrase it, the bottom line is it's the guest experience, like giving the guests the best experience. That's our number one goal, because we want to do that. Why? So they come back or they tell their friends and family, they read leave a review. So for a tourist, you know, area, people see the reviews, they come flooding, right? Yeah, that's our number one goal. That's it. That's what we it doesn't really go beyond that. That's that's our that's that's our mission. And we have, you know, but to get the chefs to understand that, I'm like, they really gotta remember that the food they're making ends up in front of someone, right? And they're eating it and they're enjoying it and then having an impact, going, oh my gosh, right? Because they don't get to enjoy that part of it, right? They they mostly get to enjoy it when they're like, hey, the steak's undercooked. Yeah, you know, they get that piece. So I'm like, I wonder if there's even a place where it's like, I want you right now or your station slow just walk around the restaurant and ask a couple of tables how they're enjoying their meal.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

And see it, right? Because they're gonna night times at ten. Oh my god, it's so amazing. So I'm wondering how we get that vision for them to see what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah, and I think, you know, it's the the difference between dining room and kitchen is it's significant in our culture here in this country. You know, and I think you know, a lot of the work you do is like I I follow, and I, you know, it's great because it's it's sending that message. And big passion of mine is is not just the culinary side, but like the hospitality side in the dining room. And you know, how do we how do we build what I see when I travel some places, like especially like if you go to France or other places, like this is a profession, like there's a respect for like what you do as a server and like creating that guest experience. And you know, people come and work for me because you know, whether it's Boku Store or they want to be in a Michelin environment and they have their own goals and aspirations. You know, we have quite a range of people come in from a service site. You know, I'm I'm gonna go to school in two years, or you know, I've been a server for a decade and worked at these four restaurants, but it's kind of my job, you know, and and you know, you there's less of that, like I'm going here and then I'm doing that, I'm gonna work for so-and-so and work for so-and-so on the on the dining room side. And so our our goal right now is to kind of break down these walls between kitchen and dining room and bring the kitchen team into the dining room, like you were just saying, and kind of whether that's from a kitchen server perspective, a lot of our team starts in the dining room first and then moves into the kitchen if we don't have a position available for them. So, you know, it creates a lot of crossover. And then, you know, how you got a large party is like, hey, you're position one, two, no problem. You know, they know where they're going, they know what the spiel is, you know, and so there's there's a lot of that that's like, you know, we're it's not everybody, you know, and like I kind of scare the dining room manager sometimes, like, we're gonna bring the cooks, and I'll like which cooks, you know. But it's uh, you know, I think it's important for them to get that experience, and like we're bringing in sort of a kitchen server role where like the team in the kitchen will will do the table side service, and you know, we just did a dinner at Trotters, and like, you know, I walked the food for every course and shave truffles at every table. Love that because the guests they you know they want to see us, that's why we're there.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I mean, in general though, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Yeah, like and and I I had to push myself super hard out of my comfort zone. Like, I'm like, I gotta just you just gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Well, what what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 32:26

I think just you know, I mean, I spent 20 years in the kitchen. Like, they don't, like I mentioned, like I forget there's guests there, so it's like, you know, you you're you're kind of like okay, how do I talk to people? Like, you know, what do you know? Because it's tough, like, you know, I mean, there's a lot of you have a lot of respect for people in the iron, right? Because you're like this table, and it's like that's why I work back here. Yeah, I don't do that. You know, or like you go to a table and you're all excited and you get no response, like what do you, you know, how do you handle that moment? Or then you get the chatty cathes and you're like, I gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

You know.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

So it's like just learning how to handle the nuances of all of that, and you know, learning how to engage people and learning how to kind of just make people feel welcome in the kitchen that you're not bothering me, like I'm happy to talk to you, and you know, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

I'd love to hear that from you because you people probably see you all the time, they're probably like, sure. Easy for him, right? He'd go up there and you know, but it's still tough. Like it's tough for anybody, it's it's hard to interact because there's so many. I always tell people the back of the house, restaurants tend to get the back of the house consistency down first because it's contained, right? You're in a contained environment. The front of the house consistency is so rare in restaurants because you have the wild card, which is the freaking guest.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah. The guest when they showed up, what they're doing, mindset, how drunk they are here in Napa.

unknown 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Anything. I mean, there's so many variables that's a mix of a wild card. It's just so you can't you can't systematize it, right? You just can't. So you have to have a durability with your systems and your training and your people at the front of the house. It makes it tough, right? So it's so hard to get that consistent experience down. And then you get trapped in things where I've had this before where it's like you have to read the table and you have to know when they want to talk and know when they don't. But it's like that is such a high-level thing. Yeah, you can't, it's such because sometimes people are just quiet, but they still want to have a conversation, but they're not outgoing, so they just they don't they don't present themselves that way. You misread them. Yeah, exactly. I have to draw them out a little bit, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, they love it, and they wanted this. I had a presentation I did one time because I told people, like, this is one of my big learning lessons was I went in, there was a manager there, and and he was like, Oh my god, man, I'm so excited, and he's talking to me, and he has all this energy, and he's freaking amped, and I'm getting amped, and I'm like, This guy's awesome. And then I see another manager and he's like, Like, just how's it going? I'm like, hey, he's like, I'm and he's just like staring at me like stoned dead look, and I'm like, Okay, this guy's like, this guy's who is this guy, right? And so I'm doing my presentation, and I'm always watching the room, see who's participating and who's not, and I try and give the other people more energy when they're not participating. And this guy's just like the whole time, just stoned look, and everyone, like if I make a joke, everyone's laughing, I look over, he's just and I'm like, this guy hates me. This guy hates me. He's not, he's not gonna buy in. I can't, I can't win him over. I just I'm like, okay, it is what it is. And so at the end of it, I'm you know, everyone's walking by and they're thanking me, and then he comes by and he's like, Hey Preston, I just want to say I really needed that, and thank you, man. Like, you just gave me so freaking much, and I just appreciate the heck out of it. And I'm just like, dude, thank you. And I'm like, right, my mind's blow he's blown, and I'm like, even I'm like still to this day, I can't remember, I you know, you don't know. And so you think I'm like, for sure this guy doesn't care and all this stuff, but I couldn't read him, I was reading him wrong. So reading people is a high-level thing, it's not as simple and cut and dry as you think.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

You know, if we treat everybody the same way, like it doesn't matter who people are, you know, and whether that's the dishwasher in here or whoever it is, and I you know, I think I you know, I do a lot of events and we're everywhere, and so you you just know I just never know who people are coming up to the table or whoever it is, and so you know, treating everyone the same way, you know, with with respect, saying thank you, being genuine with people, you know, for me, like I think some people feed off of that energy, like you know, Justin, who's our managing partner, like he like feed, like he needs to be in the room. I'm like, you can't do service every night, like you gotta have so much to do. And he and I realized like he he re-energizes in the room, you know. For sure, I'm the opposite. I'm like, you know, there was an event we did, and like, you know, normally we I tell anybody, I'm like, we're doing an event, if there's service involved, service team comes with us, at least one member of our team. Usually it's Justin. And because service is 50% of what we do every day, you know. Like, so if you want our experience, like I can't do my food and give it to you if you don't know, you know, the story behind it, how we do it, and you know, and so there was one event, he didn't come because we had another meeting, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna be in the dining room. And like I did all the table side and everything, and I was so mentally exhausted at the end of the night, you know. But it was like I also loved it at the same time, and you know, it's just kind of pushing yourself out there into that world, and you know, people love it, they want to be engaged and they want to hear the stories, but yeah, you get the people, and you know, even those people that you told the stories the same way you did everybody else, even if they didn't feed off of it, and you know, they leave at the end of the night, they was like, that was so amazing. Thank you for spending time with us. Did you just spend time with us? Because we were the only ones in the room at the time, and I was like, no, this is just what we're doing tonight, and they're like, This is so amazing, you know? And so I think one of the challenging, I think the hardest thing for us, and like I I constantly kind of when I'm at pre-service with the dining room team, especially, is like, I'm like, look, this is Thursday night for you in your work week, you know, maybe this is the second day of your work week, the last, maybe today's your Friday, right? But like, you're gonna do the same thing next week, same thing week after that, you know, here in the restaurant. But like for the guests walking in the door, like you don't know where they came from, and like they might have been talking to their friends about this for six months, and this is the only night they're ever gonna be here, and this is the experience they're like anticipating, and like we have the opportunity to like give them a memory. You know, people always ask me, like, you know, is it worth it to eat at these restaurants at fine dining at these prices? I'm like, I don't know how many, how much is your memory's worth? You know, I'm like, you can go to a concert or you know, World Cup's coming up, you know, you can come to that and like spend thousands of dollars and feed you, you know, right? So it's it's if you think about it as dinner, yeah, nothing's worth that for dinner. But like if it's about an experience and memories, and like that's for me, the word that we use a lot here is thoughtfulness. You know, there should be a thoughtfulness to everything we do, the from like the entrance to the restaurant to like the social media and the way people first engage with us before they even come here. They've already, in some sense, consumed the restaurant before they've arrived, you know, and you know, all the little all those little things matter, and I think that's the hardest thing to teach people is that this thing that I'm freaking out about in my head right now, it matters so much, and to you it's like, okay, you know, and it's like, no, like it when when all of those things add up, the sum of all of its parts, people are like, I don't know what it is about this place, but it's amazing. And it's all of those little thoughtful things from like we're smiling in the room to how we talk to guests, to how we present things, to you know, the energy that we bring, to like how the food is presented, to the deliciousness of it, to like you know, it just all feeds into one funnel. And if that receiving end of that funnel is a guest experience, you know, then it becomes something super memorable, you know. And you know, when people come back to the kitchen, like this is one of the best meals we've ever had. It's you know, it's like we love to hear that. Like that's that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, I don't think people are gonna BS you on that, right? When they say it's one of the best, or everything was great, but it's like this is one of the best meals we ever had. That's huge. And you're right, it's all the little details that add up to the big thing, and that's it's just the tiniest details. I call it microdosing hospitality, but it's like these little things that we do that really seal the deal. It's simple as like guest right-away. An honest guest right-away, where you're like, oh please, no, no, no, please, no, yeah. I insist, yes. How was everything?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

It's my favorite thing to do to Justin, who's a roommate, is is open the door for him.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

He's not gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Because he's like, no, I'm gonna open it. I was like, right this way, or like clear his plate from staff meal. You know, it's like doing that to somebody who's like super vested in hospitality. It's like I just love messing with him like that. He's like, no, no, no, no, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah, so and I yeah, it's those little tiny things freaking matter, right? The little tiny things, the way you table side present. And like we went to Miller and Lux, it was like the table side presentation was like phenomenal, right? It was like really well thought out. And then I went to a restaurant that I won't name, and they did the same table. And I I bless them, like they really wanted to do it right, but it was just like so they like biffed it so hard, and you were just like, and it's just like although like I obviously human and forgiving, you're just like, oh man, like just and then all those little things add up, right? Those little like myths. It's probably better just doing that. Yeah, um, and so but I I it is all those little things, and that's why as simple as like uh when I was I was running this bar and I was like obsessed with cutting the tape, and I'm sure the same way, right? It's like cutting the tape, and I would like and I would that we would make everyone initial the the labels so that way if I saw torn tape, I'd be like, what's going on here? Right, and it's like, but it was like then someone's like, What does it matter, Preston? Like, why does it matter? And I'm like, because that's just commitment. It's just a commitment. Like, show us that you're committed. These little commitments, these micro commitments, will add up to bigger ones. Yeah, we can get you to commit to this, we're committing to everything, you know. Like we put the scissors in the same place to cut the tape, we put the tape there so no one has to look for it. It goes in the same spot every single time. Like all these little tiny commitments, all of a sudden you have this really ran, really well-ran, organized bar that everyone loves coming to, that everyone gets the same experience every single time, just like the water cups right a bar. It's like it comes in the same cup, right? We're busy getting slammed, doesn't matter. We're out of these cups, doesn't matter. We gotta wait for new ones.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, you turn around blindfolded and grab the thing, you know, and it's yeah, like you build you build efficiency and structure into something that then you can. This is you know, when I worked at French Laundry, we change menu every day. Like every day. And like for lunch and dinner, we'd be running the same restaurant and have different menus for lunch and dinner. And uh, you know, I talked to my team about this. I'm like, why do you think we could do that? Right? The reason we could do that is because there was so much structure, so much discipline, and so much, you know, the the amount of SOPs, like the standard operating procedures were like, you know, you know, ankle deep, right? And we could throw chaos on top of that every day because you know, the chaos of a menu change and like different product coming in, and like you know, you'd have a fish cook on the menu on the line doing a dish they've never done before, and like you know, you you you were able to do that because the training was so intense and so structured that it was it there the guardrails were 10 feet tall, you know. And and so, you know, I think that's what you know we we for me the balance is trying to find the balance of my innate structured, discipline, systematic thing, and and not losing the heart and soul of cooking and and hospitality. And I I think it was a recent quote about Marco Pierre White of like, you know, it's it's about soul and energy, and like everywhere I go now, it's all like du du du and this is how you eat this. And you know, I think there's part of that that's true, and you know, I think there's there's part of that that's like, yeah, like you can't have a cookie cutter sort of approach to what you're doing or like over-systemize everything where it doesn't have the soul anymore. And you know, I think finding that balance, you know, it's like a server being like, this is how you approach the table, and you do that sort of like you mentioned earlier, you don't put the hands on the table. It's like, well, what if this feels right? You know, what if this is right and I'm like in tune with like what's going on here? So I think that's hard to teach, but I think setting it up in a way where you know we're still expressive, we're still evolving, we're still innovating in what we're doing, but we're building all of that on a foundation that never wavers. You know, and it's not like we're doing this every day because you can't build on that, right? You can't and so I think we've we've been able to achieve what we've been able to achieve here because everything's been built on a structure and System that's been built before it, but we're always innovating and we're always like, you know, I tell the team in here, I want to feel like a workshop. You know, people come in here, I want to, I want to feel like we're working on this and working on that, and like, look at this new peace tree we did, and now we have this technique and that idea, and you know, it's it's fun, it creates energy, it creates buzz. The team wants to be a part of it, and you know, that's you know, that's a luxury, you know, in today's world.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

So it is, it really is. And it's you know, we I talk about that a lot too, because that's everybody's concern, right? How do we make sure we don't lose our soul? If you're creating, if you're creating systems that are causing you to lose your soul in some way, shape, or form in a restaurant, you've probably already lost it.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:38

You're just trying to recoup it with systems and and now it feels like the soul's being sucked out of it, but like we can't get good enough people, so we're gonna just yeah, exactly. But you brought up a really good point because you said create an environment where we attract good people, and I think I talk about that a lot where it's like people come to us and they're always wanting to fix a symptom and not the problem. And we're like, the symptoms, uh, they don't get it. Ownership mentality, how do we train them on hospitality? How do we get them to understand? How do we get them bought in? How do we train Gen Z, right? Like, this is all symptoms of a pro bigger problem, and we have to go way deeper. Yeah, but I always talk about three things because you're bringing them up a lot, which is like the base of everything, which is focus, clarity, and innovation. Focus, what's our number one focus? Like, let's distill it down. Like, let's just what is it? Like, if I go on your team, what is our number one focus as a as a as an organization, as a group? It's what is that? Clarity on that, how do we execute it? How do we give them that clarity? Like you talked about. Is there jobs? Do we have do they have full clarity? Are you kind of like probably what you're you know, you're used to in traditional, you know, high profile restaurants where it's like figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

And don't be, you know, don't make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Just if the chimes are all moldy, make it happen. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Don't but don't ask me a dumb question, don't ask me you know the same question twice. And then the third one is innovation. I always talk about this. I mean, you have to be innovative, you have to. You can't like evolving is everything, innovation's everything. What got us here won't get us there. Like, all that stuff is all about evolving, and it's so important. And so, like, that's what makes restaurants successful 100%. Like, you have to keep constantly evolving and then encouraging your team to have that mindset. Like, well, how do we get better? How do we improve? How do we keep going? Like, you got a mission star, let's keep going. We're not, we're not done. Like, let's keep doing you you said your goal as a company is to impact the industry uh through your group. It's like, okay, how do we keep doing that, evolving and pushing for that? So I completely agree that innovation's key.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

This this, like, especially like the generation coming through right now, these multiple generations, I think they they want to have a sense of purpose, right? And they want to have a sense of like belonging somewhere. And I don't know, money seems to be important, but not everything. Like, if you give them purpose and experience, you know, of like what they're looking for, like it's less of a conversation than it used to be for me. Like, that's what I find, you know, and um we don't take advantage of that, you know, and like we changed our whole structure here. We're like our our whole team is on the tip structure here, you know, from top to bottom. So I don't give anybody a raise. Everybody moves through tip structure, same as the dining room. So dining room kitchen team is the same structure, and like you know, we're we're fortunate that we can do that and it's motivating for the team. Interesting to me that like if if I create a culture here where they feel like they belong, it it open like we have people working for us that have come to me personally about like their personal challenges, and and they had those same personal challenges in other places and they either left or got fired because of them. But like coming here, they can come to me, and we have an environment here where they feel safe enough to talk about it, and they've now overcome those things with us, and I can't think of any more loyal team member of my team than than someone who we've helped through, you know, this type of thing. And then and then it becomes to the point where they feel open enough to talk about it, and other people, you know, it's just like a domino effect of like, you know, they say vulnerability means vulnerability, and we're not all like, you know, okay, let's sit around the table and talk about our problems, you know. Right. But it's just a sense of like, you can be you here, you know, like you know, you can be you here, we're gonna demand everything out of you. I'm like, I tell people, you know, it's this balance of like you can be you, and like, what do you want? What do you need, right? But also, like, I'm not gonna let you waste your time. Like, anybody working here is sacrificing something. Like, you can make more money somewhere else, you could live somewhere cheaper to live, you could work less hours, like, you know, you're sacrificing something to be here, be closer to your family, whatever it is. So, like, if you're gonna be here, I'm gonna push you hard. I'm gonna get you, you know, far along. And you know, we know what people's goals are before they come in here. So if somebody tells me they want to be a sous-chef, the first thing I ask them, I'm like, are you sure? You know, because like the track to be a good line cook and just be here for X amount of time is one thing. To be a sous-chef here means I'm gonna push you harder, you know, to be in a position where you are that person. And I'm not gonna let you not achieve your goal. It's not gonna be because of me, you didn't get there, you know, and so I'm gonna push you and and show you that path in a different way than if you, you know, if that wasn't as important to you. Um so it's it's like, you know, giving people a sense of purpose, a sense of place. You know, I used to have a general manager like, we can't find anybody, like, can't hire anyone. And I was like, why do they want to work here? You know, like what are you giving them? You're paying them more than the people down the street? Like, like, are you is there an educational aspect to this? Is this like we have you know great benefits, you know, you get free staff meal? Like, like why come here? You know, they can go anywhere. They can go anywhere in the country. Like, why would they come here? And so that that messaging has to come across from us, you know, and be like, this is who we are, this is a great place to work, this is a sense of purpose. And you know, I think COVID kind of shifted my mindset too of like, you know, we were all essential workers. You know, we did like a drive-thru. I was like, I don't, I don't know if it's essential that people get, you know, a cubano and a cream puff, you know, but like, you know, I had this young, this, this lady and her young daughter, they like rode their bikes down here, and you could tell, like, they were like, we're gonna do something special. Yeah, you know, we're gonna come down here. And like they came and they, you know, she got each of them got a cream puff, and you could just see this this girl was like like the best moment of her day. And like, you know, I still get like this like emotional feeling about that moment of like, you know, I don't think we realize that what you know, we think about like from a Michelin level, like, I'm creating this hospitality experience, it's gonna like blow people's minds and they're gonna be like, this chef's amazing and this food is amazing. But the the more gratifying and more satisfying aspect of this is that we we give people an escape from the world they're in sometimes, you know, and we give them a place to go, whether it's a place to gather with their friends or a place to just kind of reward like have a moment or escape from something or do something, like you don't know where people are coming from. And you know, I think when we give people an opportunity to like come to an environment and and and have a moment, you know, I had a gentleman here the other day and he was like, he's like, this was such a special night for me. He came up by himself, and he was like, I used to, my mom used to always love food, and she introduced me to food and we used to go out to eat together, and she passed away like a year ago. And like coming here was just like she would have loved this, you know, and it's like that's super deep, you know, and so because I always I always struggle with like, does what I do matter, you know, kind of thing. Like we all struggle with these like life questions, and like, you know, am I like what's it all for? You know, and like the impact we can have on individuals who work with us, you know, and and change their personal lives and give them opportunity and watch an extern come in and become a sous-chef and leave and go to a three-mission star restaurant in Chicago. Like, that was beyond their dreams of what they thought they could achieve both in the short term and in and in the world we opened up in front of them. Um and I and for the guests, you know, who come in and you know, we create fun memories for some and drunken memories perhaps for others, but you know, there's some who come through and you know, you you hit those chords, you know, the ratatouille moment, whereas when I was a kid it was like this, and you know, or or whatever whatever the moment is in life. And so I think it's maintaining a freshness of mindset that perspective this is the perspective that we can have every day. And you know, it's hard. Like I'm a you know, I have life going on and crazy things, and I have three kids, and you know, life is crazy in those regards, but like, you know, I've I've learned how to walk through this door every day, and and I have to just I have to be the leader for the team. You know, I have to like bring the perspective for the team. And fortunately, I have a team around me that sometimes they're that for me, you know, and you need you need to create a culture where like as a leader you don't have to be the only leader in the room. And like I think if that's the case, you're you're failing, you know, and like everything I do is to build another another set of leaders underneath me that are gonna hopefully supersede, you know, it's like having kids, right? Like your greatest success is you know, they're taller, faster, stronger, and smarter than you, you know, but that's that's the goal. So I think removing the ego from it and building something around you, because you know, eventually that what you build underneath you is eventually what's carrying you forward.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

I agree, and I think you know, calling it what it is, like 80-90% of people want to escape, right? They do, they want to escape. Even if they're going into a freaking fast food place, like they just want a moment, right? That's why they're going, they want something to eat, yes, but it's like a it is a luxury or it's an indulgence or whatever, and they're just going to kind of like not think about things for a little bit, and it's like, how dare we make it about us? You know, and about our tip and our section, our manager, our our personal lives, and come in. It's just that's what most people do in front of the house.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

You know, speaking of general. I mean, I think what you're doing is you're shifting the perspective away from yourself onto other people.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

You know, and I think if if if we all have that mindset when we come into our workplace, you know, I know other people are doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

You know, like I'm okay, if I'm gonna help you, then that means you're gonna help me, you know, and so like I'm no longer I'm no longer concerned about just me. You know, I'm I'm like recognizing that like I'm gonna be successful today because I'm surrounded by these people. And like if these people are all here working together for my success and I'm doing the same for them, I might have hard days in here, but like every every week we'll be successful. Every month, like I'm gonna feel like I'm growing and you know, translating that into it, just you know, I think everybody talks about it, right? Like, take care of your people, you take care of you know the environment, the guests, and there has to be a very strong intentionality about that. And like one of you know, somebody asked me once, like, what's you know, what do you do to get everybody motivated and excited for like pre-service or whatever? And I was like, honestly, the best thing we do is we all sit down the staff meal. Break bread. Like we we sit down in here, we set the whole room just like we do for a guest, you know, paper napkins instead of cloth napkins, but like all the food gets, you know, the cooks make the food 10 minutes before we sit down, the service team puts it all in, you know, family style dishes, we put it all on the table, and we all sit down for 30 minutes, the entire restaurant. I love that. I sit down next to the extern, next to the kid who's staging from the culinary school, whoever it is, and like that that's how you meet people. That's how I found out, you know, Natalie knows how to fly helicopters and the seven dragons of Indonesia from the guy who's from Indonesia. Like, it's actually a real thing. And it's it's like, you know, I think it it just it just removes like I'm me and you're you and like this is just we're just having food together, you know. Yeah, and I think it it it's what brings us kind of like together and breaks down the walls, kitchen team, dining room team, you know, everybody's got their little spot they sit at, but like we mix it up, and so for me, for me it's about like bringing a humanness and a culture of like that hospitality into our day, and like that came out of COVID. Like never had I mean the amount of delis I ate out of uh standing up right, you know, right, like over the course, and I'm like here, you know, like we're gonna sit down, you're gonna because it was like the culture was like this is like a fascinating like perception of you know culture, right? It was like the culture used to be like, oh you're gonna sit, you're gonna take a break. You know, you're gonna take a break. And so like I'm gonna stay in the kitchen and keep working. And like finally I was like, I'm gonna turn the lights off in here. Like, like, and and eventually it became like, wait, you're not good enough to take a break? Like you're not organized enough to like create the time and like be set up on time, like the way we talked about. And so, like, like who's this? What's it like? Why are you still in the kitchen? You know, and so we we we changed that culture, you know, and like we changed that mindset, and now it's like wow, why did we do that? You know, and it's like if we're gonna come, like we're gonna have the same amount of time, you know, and like if we're building the team the way that they can be successful doing that, then we create that opportunity for them and it it totally resets the day.

SPEAKER_00 57:08

And it makes it better, right? Like like having that perspective, right? Versus like, yeah, I work through things, but also because I'm completely unorganized and and and kind of aimless, right? Just kind of just checking box is a checking box, or to check box or completing tasks just to complete tasks, or I'm just doing a bunch of work, versus there's intention behind what you just said, right? There's intention, there should be intention behind what you're doing, what you're executing. You should earn the break, right? And and by being organized and clean and and and um prepared. Yeah, and then you earn the break, but just have that's a completely different mindset and a completely different leadership style, right? And and and and developing that mindset, and then who who like what who do you think is ended up happier? Yeah, and more successful, because they want you to believe like this, oh, this person is more successful because they're work ethic or whatever, but there's still a lot of work ethic here, it's just framing it differently.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

And it's funny because like that staff meal is the one thing anybody who comes in and stages here, every single person mentions it.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Yeah, yeah. They're like, I just love how you guys like do that. Like, yeah, you know, do you do that every day?

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Little things.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Yeah. It's it's the fun little things. You know, we we create a partnership with Snicker River Farms, you know, and they send us a bunch of steaks, and everybody on their birthday gets a birthday steak.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

You know, just we do a cake once a month and cards for everybody, you know, and it's just these are all things we don't have to do. Like those are the first things to go out the door when we're busy, you know, and I think if we make them like a priority, then what's funny is over time you're like, this is just what we do. Like, and and then you begin to add, you know, more and more layers to that. So, you know, it's a tough, it's a tough business, you know, and it's it's hard to, you know, when when things are tough and challenging, you know, it's it's when you have to do that the most because everybody's struggling, you know, and if you don't maintain those standards during the struggle, then you're gonna lose the team. And that team is what's gonna get you to the other side.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

That's a fragile thing too, because you can lose that team like that. You know, like it it doesn't take it's like the old saying, right? It doesn't take uh Rome wasn't built in a day, but it's just burn down in one. Like same thing with with culture. Like you can build a culture carefully, meticulously for years in one wrong move, right? One wrong viewpoint, one wrong, you know, uh leader that you hired, manager that you hire, and it's gone.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Yeah, yeah. I've learned, you know, every time I think I'm really good at what I do, like stuff like this happens, and you're like, oh, I don't know, I know nothing. Yeah, seriously.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

You know, reality check.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

But you know, I think the the the challenge of culture, you know, it our core principles, it's servant leadership, the second one's accountability and you know, evolution and sustainability and these core things, but like, you know, those first two, it's like I don't care who you are or what you've achieved, you're here to serve the team, you know, and and by the way, you're also accountable to everybody here, like everybody, and it doesn't like top down, and so immediately it's a mind shift away from you know, there's some kind of autonomy that I have or some untouchableness, and like like I have I've I've had subcultures get created in the restaurants I run and like totally undermine. At first it starts out good, you're like, wow, it's great, like they have this little group and like everybody loves each other, they all hang out, but when that leader sours, everybody goes, you know, and it's it's ensuring that like you know, I'm I'm hyper aware of it now, like because some of these guys, like, you know, a lot of them like they'll go play pickleball or do something else together, and it's like who's getting left out, right? Like who's like what is this how do we make sure this doesn't drift off? And so um, you know, I think sometimes it's it's making sure you're aware of how the positive things can become negatives if you're not recognizing the subculture that's like kind of the undercurrent underneath it. And uh yeah, I think management is is a fascinating lifelong challenge.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

It is, it really is, and you can constantly be learning, growing, and evolving from it, but you also want to systematize at the same time, right? And like you said, I think that was great. Like identifying Tony Robbins calls it the patterns. You see patterns, like do something about it, right? You see those patterns happening, which you just said, right? When I see people getting cookie, what's going on there? I think that's an overarching culture thing, too. So it's introducing that selfless hospitality. It's I think it's huge. And we are I call it unconditional hospitality because you talked about earlier. It's like I said, I'm like, you've if if everyone came in, right? If I came into work and I'm a server and my job as a server, I thought my job is to make sure you and my other servers and my bar back, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure you have the best, easiest shift possible. I'm gonna go above and beyond, out of my way to make sure you, everyone here has the best, easiest shift possible. I'm gonna do it without expecting anything in return, unconditional. Right? Would you like to work next to that person? Like, uh yeah, of course. What if everybody in the restaurant thought that and operated like that? What would that look like? Oh my god, I look amazing. I'm like, we could do that. Where does it start? Who can you who can you get control in that situation? It's like you can only control yourself. And I always tell people, I go, it's so funny with with restaurants, you know, like especially servers and stuff like that. I'm like, would you ever date someone if they if you want to date and they're like, I'm super self-centered, it's it's all about me, and um I all I care about is myself. Yeah, would you be like, I want to date that person? I'm like, well, of course not, yeah, of course, right? No one wants to date that person, but yet everyone's okay being that person at work, right? Where it's all about me, and it's you know, it's like it becomes about me, and I, you know, my tip out and my my sections and my shifts and my you know schedule. And it's like, but if we just honestly had a selfless approach when we came into work, things would be night and day better, both financially, but more importantly, mentally. Yeah. Right? Across the board, everyone would be happier, everyone would be more fulfilled, and and that's something we're really trying to push. It's like is is not only unlocking that philosophy, but making that part of cultures for companies.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Yeah. Yeah, and I mean I think we see people, I don't think we're the best restaurant, you know, in the Bay Area here where we are, but I know people come out here to California, travel out here to stage in multiple different restaurants, and it's an it's really awesome to see that they choose to come here.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

You know, and they go and stage at restaurants I consider, you know, they have more stars than we do, or whatever it is, but they're like, I just really love what you guys, like the culture of the team and like what happens here. And I think you know, if somebody feels like that's somewhere I can go and be a part of something, and like I think they'll they'll they'll let me be a part of that, and like I feel like I can grow and that's environment. Like, there's a lot of power in that to attracting team and keeping team, and I think you know, as a parent, you know, you have like your own successes and failures, but it there's so many similarities to things, and you know, I was coaching my daughter's soccer team when she was like eight years old, and you know, there's like all these little clicks forming in the popular girls and the new girls, and I used to love it. They just line them all up, like, okay, you form one line on the left, one line on the right, and then they would all like form their little lines together. And I was like, Okay, the person across from you is your partner, and they're like, What? No, I want to work with my friend. I'm like, nope, and like this whole group of girls just over the course of the season, like finally, like they'd all like hang out separately, and by the time they were in the team hotel in the last game, they're all like hanging out together, and you know, it's just you can choose who you hire, you can't choose your your your kids, you know. But like, like in the restaurant, it's the same challenges of like how do you get everybody rolling in the same direction? And we're all so different, we all come from so many different backgrounds and so many different preconceived ideas of you know whether it's even right or wrong, or you know, how things should be done, and like doing it in a way that's not authoritative and not fear-driven, you know, not like this is how you I mean, we started a conversation earlier of like, you know, this I'm gonna tell you how to do your job, and you need to do it like this and this, and like you know, you just create a bunch of robots or people who are afraid, and you know, we've created that culture in the past, you know, and it's like, okay, like I need to change how I talk to the diagram team because they're like, well, if we mess up or we go back and we don't know, like, chef's gonna rip our heads off.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:20

And it's like, well, that's no way to get them really excited about like, hey, welcome in, you know, and so you know, if we can create that where like if I go back, chef's got my back of what I need out here. And like we understand how to communicate. You know, I had one guy that was like came back and asked him, I'm like, Jeff, we've been working together for five years. It's like 50 first dates. Like, the answer is yes, it will always be yes. You don't have to ask me this question. That's why this paper exists that has the answers on it. And it's just, you know, creating even just a sense of humor in all of it. And be you being able to like smile in the midst of the challenges and know, like, you know, and it and it's hard, but like it. That that comes from the team, you know, uh around us being like, you know, we got this, you know, and you know, there's there's all the difficult moments, but if the overarching thing you get when you step back from like what we do, and you're like you're satisfied with the product and who we are and what we're presenting to the world, but you also feel like everyone's got your back in the middle of it all. And and and like, you know, we have this crazy world that we're in now where you know all this stuff comes out about all these different chefs and people and like what they've done and how they've treated people. And this is this is the thing. I'm like, how can we, you know, I had one guy, you know, I was at dinner with years ago, and everyone was talking about this super famous French chef, and he was like, I worked under him. I don't know how anybody could celebrate that person for how they treated people. And you know, there's some of this that we have to be careful about with this, you know, we have TV shows about people who yell and scream at people, and we celebrate that, and that's why they have a show, you know, and it's you know, so there's this whole kind of like like we it's not a witch hunt out there either, you know, but like for me that's like I don't I don't ever want to be that person, you know, where somebody's celebrating the work I did and I know we I built it on the back of somebody by by treating them this way. And you know, I told I told my patriot chef, you know, a while back, I'm like, I would rather put a Costco croissant on this counter if it means that the only way we're gonna achieve this is by doing it like this. We're gonna treat people the right way, and like we'll serve Costco croissants for as long as we never did serve a Costco croissant, to be clear. We'll serve a Costco croissant for as long as it takes to get the team and the right people. And I mean, this is the same person who came to me and were like, I don't have the right people. And and two of those people are now sous chefs running the whole place. You know, and it's like, well, maybe they're just maybe we just have the wrong mentality about who they are and how we're teaching them and how we're training them. And so it's you know, I I hate it when people give up on people. And like I had to, I had to learn, I learned that lesson through Bocus Dor, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

So, you know, my comie Skyler was this young kid, and I came to him, and he was like the you have to have somebody who so Bocus Dore is like coach, a chef, and a comi or apprentice, right? And they have to be at the time I was 21 or younger at the time of the competition. This is a very young person to be at you know that level of mentality. And so, you know, he came in, you know, worked, was working at the restaurant. I applied, I got selected, and I looked around, and he's like the only guy I knew who was young enough. And you know, he's this kind of slightly awkward dude who was kind of like working in the kitchen. I was like, hey, like, you know, I'm looking for somebody to do this with me. Do you want to do this? And he's like, sure. You know, no real idea of like what he was saying yes to. I'm like, do you want to give up a year of your life to work as hard as you've ever worked and you know, commit to something at this level? And so, you know, we worked together throughout the year, and it was kind of ups and downs, and you know, I was started to like really struggle as things became more and more intense. And we had this training trip to France, and it was like, okay, we're gonna go to Lyon, we're gonna stay in the Salem Hotel, we're gonna practice in the kitchen that we're gonna train at when we get there. And like, I had put all the weight in the world on this trip of like, we're gonna go, we've never competed before, we're gonna go, and like this is gonna be the moment we come back and be like, we've done this already. Like, we know what we gotta do, it's been successful. We got there, we set everything up, and we started our training run that was supposed to be five and a half hours. Seven and a half hours later, we finished this thing, and like he had just gone in like super casual, and like just like an hour behind an hour and a half in, and I was so frustrated. There's a picture in my book of like the alleyway we walked down to the restaurant at later that night, and I just remember this. Like, I was like, I didn't want to talk to him, I didn't want to see him. I was so frustrated. I'm like, he ruined this whole thing and he doesn't care. And like that, you know, it was a super hard moment, and like, you know, it was also the moment where like he kind of realized the gravity of what we were doing and his decisions and like everything, and you know, it kind of took the whole team to like come around. And you know, I just told him, I'm like, look, like you can do whatever you want for the rest of your life. We have three months to do the thing that we've trained for, and like I'm like, I need everything you've got to like get us collectively to this point. And you know, he he turned the corner, like he went from kind of resisting everything to embracing it to like showing up early to like being part of the team and like doing the things that like kind of just hadn't been a part of, and you know, fast forward to like the day we were competing, and like I just looked at him the day we were there, and I was like, I was like, I just want you to know there's nobody else that'd rather have this the kitchen than you. Like, we're ready to do this thing, and like he absolutely crushed it. And you know, it was it was kind of that moment where like I realized like how many people did I give up on? You know, how many people did I just dismiss because like you're frustrating me right now, or like I'm too impatient, or don't want to give you the time to like invest in you to be better. And like I carry that with me everywhere I go now. Like every young kid or every person that comes in the back door or this restaurant, it's like the moment I hire you, you're my responsibility. And like I hired you, you're my team member. Like, if you're failing, I'm failing until you give us a reason to think otherwise. And and then it's like, okay, I did everything I could. But like, there's nobody who works here in this building that doesn't get that level of investment from our team, you know, and it's amazing to watch people surprise themselves, surprise us sometimes, you know, of of of what they can do and achieve. And so, yeah, it's the hardest part, you know, it's like what you know, you you grow people and then you send them out into the world, you know. But it's always fun when they come back and you know, you see how they've they've grown.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

Because that's one message I always try and get them like the more time you spend developing your people, the more successful you're gonna end up being. But most people just don't spend any time developing their people. It's kind of like what I see a lot in restaurants is like five to seven days of training if you're lucky, especially front of the house-ish. Yeah. And then um, I'll let you know when you do something wrong. You know, and then hopefully in six months you kind of get it. And they're like, why aren't they bought in? Why is there no ownership mindset? Why doesn't it hospitality? Why, why are why are you know sales not where we want them to be? And it's like because you're not spending any time developing your people, you're giving them the bare minimum, and then getting upset when they're not executing at a high level.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

Yeah. It's a never-ending pursuit.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Yeah, absolutely. But I want to say thank you so much for taking the time. It's been a freaking honor, and I've I've actually learned a lot, so I appreciate it. And uh, yeah, man, I'm you're you're an inspiration, and I'm gonna just you know use your questions to hey, let's like this is you know, because I think people a lot of people think that you know, you have this, they're gonna right away say he has this restaurant, so people want to work there, of course. Like it's easy for him, and it's like, no, he built this.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:57

Appreciate the conversation, it's been fun.